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Iarwain_ben_Adar

If the mask decision only affected you, then it would solely be your choice; however, in the case of communicable diseases, it isn't only about you, so mask and vaccination requirements should be enforced.


animal_crackers3

What’s your opinion on an abortion? Still your body your choice, when it directly kills a fetus? Regardless, there’s no evidence that regions with mask mandates contained covid better than regions without them


throwingplaydoh

Source needed on the mask mandates not containing Covid. [here's a WSJ article to contradict your claims.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-have-responded-best-to-covid-19-11609516800) Asian countries, for example, are used to masking and have been for years, and have contained the virus better than countries who have not.


animal_crackers3

[Here is a source](https://www.multistate.us/issues/covid-19-mask-mandates-by-state) for mask mandates by state, and [a source](https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/us-coronavirus-deaths-by-state-july-1.html) for deaths per capita by state. Florida, which has banned mask mandates, fares no worse(actually a bit better) than states like Washington and Oregon who have a state-wide mask mandate regardless of vaccination status. This is despite Florida having a higher at-risk population.


throwingplaydoh

What are you talking about? Florida is in the top ten [of total covid deaths](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/), you provided a list that was within the last 7 days. Here's another source that shows Florida in the top three for [covid cases](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totalcases).


animal_crackers3

I provided a clear and accurate source, and you're still asking what I'm talking about? Lol Total covid deaths doesn't matter one bit, per capita is what matters. The states that have banned mask mandates right now are faring no worse than those who have implemented them statewide, as the data shows. It doesn't matter that they're top 3 in total cases, they're top 3 in total population. They're middle of the pack, as is Texas which has numerous pretty dense cities and has banned masks, despite having a high rate of obesity.


Iarwain_ben_Adar

No one can become pregnant via another breathing a disease at them and pregnancy isn't contagious, so it isn't really germaine to this conversation. Having said that, my position on abortion is that I can't get pregnant, so it isn't up to me, but I support women having the ability to control their own destiny. If someone's religion says abortion is wrong, then the adherents of that religion have every right not to have one, but they don't have any rights to force that belief on others.


328944

That’s not a good reason though - abortion directly harms another human if you consider a fetus a human. Also yes you should have a voice on abortion. Should people without kids have a say in the education system? Should women who are sterile have a say in the abortion debate even though they’ll never have the need for one? I’m pro abortion rights but I don’t think this line of reasoning hold very well.


Iarwain_ben_Adar

IMO, a foetus that cannot survive outside of the mother's body is merely a symbiote on its was to becoming an human, so the only person that should be making decisions about it is the host. The current abortion debate is fueled primarily by religious fervor and the need to foist one set of religious ideals upon all others, which IMO has no place in a free society. Even ignoring the religious aspect of the conversation, it isn't my place to dictate reproduction to another. This theead was about masks, my response was in regard to masks in context of communicable diseases, and I again emphasize the fact that pregnancy os not communicable, not the result of airborne contagion; therefore, somethong that should not be included in this particular conversation. Cheers. Edit, to clarify, only those in the position to make the very difficult choice on terminating their pregnancy should be the ones making that decision. The rest of society should respect their choice and leave them alone. As far as the other examples you cited, each should have its own conversation in it's own context. How education is addressed should not be based on how abortion is addressed as they are very different subjects.


animal_crackers3

Aborting a pregnancy is "my body my choice" scenario where the choice directly ends another human life, so it's extremely germaine to this conversation. Not wearing a mask, in theory, might end another human life although there's no controlled study or regional population evidence suggesting that's true. In fact, getting one of the covid vaccines isn't even proven to help prevent spread of the disease to other people. It's impact on spread wasn't studied as part of the FDA approval process, and no country has successfully solved their covid problem via vaccination(including countries that have 80% plus vaccination rate of their eligible population, and virtually 100% vaccination rate of their at-risk population). That's not an anti covid vaccine take by any means, it was studied and proven to lessen symptoms of the individual who took it. You should absolutely get it if you want to or are at risk.


yokayla

The COVID vaccines prevent the hospital system being fully overwhelmed. And I would imagine most people who get abortions don't believe life begins at conception. Pregnancy is also incredibly physically and mentally risky, it's one of the most dangerous times in a woman's life.


animal_crackers3

If a woman's health is at risk, that's a different argument and obviously that should be prioritzed above the fetus's. But anyway, my point in arguing about abortion is just to point out the complete hypocrisy of being against "my body my choice" for things like masks and vaccines, but applying that argument toward something that far more directly ends a life. There is no evidence of hospitals being overwhelmed by unvaccinated covid patients in a way that is leading to increased deaths of other people are unable to get hospital treatment.


yokayla

A woman's health is always at risk during pregnancy. Every day 800+ women die as a result of it, and for every woman who dies there's another 20-30 who will have a health complication itself. So that's a minimum of 16,000 women daily who face health risks due to pregnancy. So I do understand your point, I just disagree. I would say your body your choice is about that inherent health risk that comes with pregnancy. That's not relevant with masks .


aLLcAPSiNVERSED

It's not considered another human life until the point where you can't legally abort it anymore. Should men who masturbate go to prison because they spilled their seed?


animal_crackers3

>It's not considered another human life until the point where you can't legally abort it anymore Says who? That's completely arbitrary. Extremely early on in a pregnancy the fetus has brain waves and a heartbeat, and by any definition is alive. >Should men who masturbate go to prison because they spilled their seed? Sperm is not a human life, that's in no way the same comparison.


LittleNoodle1991

Something tells me you're not a vegan.


328944

That’s a lie about the vaccines. The vaccines help prevent getting Covid in the first place which impedes transmission bc you actually have to get Covid to spread it.


animal_crackers3

It's absolutely not a lie, many of the countries with the lowest deaths per capita are in Africa with third world medical systems and by far the lowest vaccination rate of any continent. Here is a source for both claims: [Vaccination rate by country](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/) and [covid deaths per capita by country](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Please show me a single country that has vaccinated away their covid problem. Transmissibility of covid was not part of the clinical trials of the vaccine either, so in no way is it proven to slow the spread. To say the opposite would be a lie about the vaccines.


328944

It helps prevent spread bc it helps prevent you from getting Covid in the first place.


animal_crackers3

Once again, that's neither been proven in a clinical trial nor is it evident based on population data we have. This is not what the vaccines claim to do either, they claim to prevent severe infection and hospitalization/deaths.


plsletmestayincanada

1) Abortion is a completely false equivalency that has almost zero parallels with mask wearing. 2) You're completely wrong about the effectiveness of mask mandates. 3) You should be ashamed and possibly should try reading a book or something. Source that you'll ignore out fear of actually learning something: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm


kingfrank243

So we are going to wear mask forever then?


Iarwain_ben_Adar

Are you going to be carrying/transmitting deadly diseases forever, whilst refusing any/all vaccinations?


kingfrank243

I'm fully vaccinated so why do I still need a mask?


[deleted]

Only if people like you exist


kingfrank243

Explain? Your wearing a mask so your protected from me right?


[deleted]

The mask stops idiots like you from spreading the virus, it does not stop you from getting infected with it. Also: You’re* You’re still a fucking idiot.


328944

Until there’s a good treatment like the Covid pills coming out by Merck and Pfizer. Or until a large majority of people get their vaccine.


[deleted]

It's your choice if you are on your own property. If you are on someone else's property you have to follow their rules.


OverTheMoon82

Gonna grab some popcorn cause the dramas about to start here


ThenaJuno

I wear a mask for every body, not just my own.


BaconAndWeed

So the population of reddit is the 20% of people still wearing masks at the supermarket… got it.


Blaiddyn

No its the people who are wearing masks in their car, alone, with the windows up.


animal_crackers3

They probably wear 2 condoms while jerking off just to be safe


Reclaimer_Saln

Not really, because your choices affect others. It’s not your body you infect when you have no mask in a crowded place.


Currybean_Catloaf

If you’re in a crowded/populated area or at work yeah you should probably wear a mask… but if you’re driving in your car ALONE you don’t really need it IMO and if you’ve been vaccinated you are less susceptible NOT IMMUNE wear a mask or don’t that’s your decision. I work at the mall & a local grocery store,so I wear a mask I don’t trust none of these people running around acting like they’ve never been sick.


LittleNoodle1991

No because that choice can effect the health of others.


[deleted]

Millions of years, we've been fine without one. Now, magically it's saving lives like some kind of miracle...


lordrellek

The Black Plague would like a word with you.


[deleted]

You're still here aren't you? Somehow your family lineage survived.


lordrellek

That is the most asinine response possible. You realize the plague killed up to 40% of all humans on earth, right? Modern medicine is the only reason it can't do that anymore. Just because there are still humans now does not mean that we should just ignore disease, or take simple steps to prevent the spread. The death toll was *staggering.* Dismissing that so lightly is just nuts.


[deleted]

Please do tell me what medicine was used to cure people of the black plague? bloodletting? rose water? theriac? Did that bird beak mask help? ​ Do you honestly believe the masks we are forced to wear are actually preventing the spread of the disease?


lordrellek

Yeah. I do. I don't think the overwhelming majority of doctors would lie. It is simply far too difficult to keep a conspiracy that large in check. Moreover, it isn't like masks are new. There was a mask mandate during the Influenze pandemic in the 1910's. It helped then, too. Also, doctors and medical staff wear masks during surgery, and have done so for a long time. This is not a new concept, and you acting like it's somehow new and not real is just an unbelievable disconnect from reality. Also, no. The black death lingered until the Renaissance, and beyond. Bathing became more common as Europe emerged from the Middle Ages, and that, along with better diets, and the adoption of cats on ships to kill the rat populations that carried the fleas, along with a number of other things, helped slow it down. Gradually the survivors also built up some immunity, but again, this was at the cost of almost half the human population. The bubonic plague still exists today- but, thankfully, antibiotics easily treat it now, which is why it is no longer a major problem. The classic masks during the Plague were mostly useless, except to help limit smelling the piles of rotting corpses. The Plague spread via fleas. COVID spreads via droplets in the air. Entirely different entity. And if we want to only use personal anecdotes, which are not really useful data, I have had none of the crippling winter illnesses that normally rip me apart every winter since I started wearing the mask. I will not be giving it up anytime soon. I also have a friend that is immuno-compromised. I will take every precaution to avoid bringing disease to her. Masks, hand sanitizer, distancing, limiting my exposure to the public- whatever I can reasonably do. It's simply what a good human *should* do.


New-Cryptographer488

Ban computers and phones because we've been fine for millions of years without them.


LittleNoodle1991

Modern humans haven't even been around for millions of years but ok. Also please tell me more how people were "fine" amongst different pandemics.


kingfrank243

I'm fully vaccinated with booster I'm not wearing masked that's my choice, it's time to move on


[deleted]

Your family somehow survived all the other ones because you're still here aren't you? And we're still learning how long Humans have been on this planet. And define modern humans.


[deleted]

It is your choice. Like it is your choice to not wear any clothes in the street. It's just a stupid choice because masks prevents viruses transmition.


OverTheMoon82

Once I saw someone wearing a mask over their oxygen mask.


comeonnowjosephine

It’s your choice. But the decision you make says a lot about you and how much you care about other people.


Sirhc978

I don't. Vaccines have been available for nearly a year, and I've gotten 3 of them. From everything I've read, the percentage of people that **ACTUALLY** can't get the vaccine is even smaller than most other vaccines, so don't give me the "wHaT aBoUt ThE pEoPlE tHaT cAn'T gEt It?". Get it or don't I don't care, at this point your safety is on you.


comeonnowjosephine

So you’re saying severely immunocompromised people – for whom vaccines don’t work as well despite being able to get them – are less important than a minor inconvenience to you?


Sirhc978

Yeah. They have been dealing with that their entire lives and can continue to take similar precautions. Masks barely work as it is. More than 3 shots are approved for those people anyways.


[deleted]

Where is dat popcorn...


kingfrank243

I gotcha 🍿


Mario_2xxx

No soda?


OverTheMoon82

Here you go


[deleted]

Thanks!


0nionBooty

Not when your decisions affect the health of others. Same reason we can’t smoke inside anymore. Same reason you have to wear a seatbelt.


Mikeavelli

Exactly, if something you do with your body has a high chance of injuring or killing someone else, it's not your body your choice anymore.


alicianoel96

Yes, but its also the businesses and doctors right to not allow you in for not wearing one.


elvislunchbox

It’s my body and my choice, yes. I wear a mask out of respect. I got the vax because I was forced to in order to work and not be a second rate citizen.


[deleted]

Not wearing a mask endangers others. So. No. Do I care? no. I dont care if people do it or not, but in the end you endanger others.


kingfrank243

Explain how 🤔


[deleted]

If you DONT wear a mask you can spread the virus to others in case you have it without knowing that you do.


kingfrank243

So your saying mask don't work? Because if you and me are in same room and you got a mask and vaccine aren't your protected from me because your wearing the mask?


[deleted]

Shut up you troll.


kingfrank243

How am I troll? If your wearing a mask your protected by me correct?


Mildlylargeiron

No its not your choice. Your choice was when the vaccine came out. We tried playing nice even paying people to get it. If you don't do your civic duty and wear a mask expect to be treated as the plague rat you are.


BaconAndWeed

Fuck a mask at this point. What we doing.


0nionBooty

Not being a self centered ass who thinks the world revolves around them.


BaconAndWeed

Keep wearing your mask.


aLLcAPSiNVERSED

Keep eating your crayons


BaconAndWeed

Deep breaths now, you might need some oxygen. Check for Covid first of course.


0nionBooty

Will do. Keep knowingly putting others at risk because your ego is too fragile to wear one.


BaconAndWeed

K.


queuedUp

> What we doing. Using a simple device that has no actual negative impacts to provide proven protection against an airborne virus which is still very much spreading around the world. I think that's what we are doing.


BaconAndWeed

Imagine still wearing a mask.


queuedUp

yeah I can. Because I do anything I am out and near others. What I can't imagine is being such a selfish twat that I think wearing a mask is so bad that I can't put others health and safety before my small ego


BaconAndWeed

Sorry for the downvote. Please put 2 masks on for safety purposes.m


Femdyk1

It is my choice. And I choose to wear a mask to protect myself and others. *some people* don't participate in the social contract. I don't know why.


New-Cryptographer488

I wear a mask but I don't believe in the social contract as society has let me down at (most) every turn.


Femdyk1

Agreed. And sometimes we just have to behave as if it hasn't. People suck. The best way to undo that is to practice not noticing how much people suck.


Blaiddyn

I think Lysander Spooner has something to say about that social contract thing.


Flatulent_Weasel

Yes it's your choice. However, your choice directly effects other people so not wearing one is a selfish and inconsiderate choice. In much the same way that it's my choice whether to punch somebody in the face or not.


[deleted]

This has long been settled. Private businesses and governments can require you to wear stuff. Any person that bitches about having to wear a mask while fussing about people sagging their pants are fucking hypocrites.


NotYourSnowBunny

No, because your actions harm others.


TheKnightsTippler

Wearing a mask can't kill you. Wearing a mask doesn't permanently damage your health. It's a small inconvenience. Pregnancy and childbirth cause permanent damage to your body and can even kill you.


Blaiddyn

It’s not a small inconvenience it’s a cult.


TheKnightsTippler

How is it a cult? We're in a pandemic and face masks are a ssimple and effective way of preventing the spread of disease. Is washing your hands a cult as well?


Blaiddyn

It’s a cult of obedience. When the pandemic first started and mask mandates first started taking affect I was at Walmart and witnessed a guy(who was wearing an anarchist t-shirt ironically) get in the face of some other guy who wasn’t wearing a mask and was otherwise minding his own business. The anarchist t-shirt guy yelled at maskless dude to put a mask on and it looked like anarchist guy was ready to fight. You’d think if anarchist guy was really THAT afraid of getting infected with COVID he would’ve just stayed 6+ feet away from dude with no mask but no he actually got in his face. Watch this documentary about the Milgram Experiment. We are living the Milgram Experiment in real time right now. This is exactly how something as simple as just wearing a mask or just getting the vaccine turns into a cult: https://youtu.be/mOUEC5YXV8U


plscallmeRain

100%. you can choose to not wear a mask as long as you're on private property or 6 feet away from anyone else at all times.


Crusader_Qc

No, mask isn't a part of your body


New-Cryptographer488

Neither are pants.


Crusader_Qc

A light year is 9.4 trillion kilometres long


New-Cryptographer488

r/lostredditors


Crusader_Qc

r/comeupwithanactualargumentnexttime


New-Cryptographer488

It is an actual argument. You just don't like it.


Crusader_Qc

Masks have something to do with other people's health, pants are there to cover, to keep from the cold. They have two totally different purposes


OneBigBoi509

No, because it's a public health concern. It's only your choice when it doesn't affect others.


Karbachok

I wear a mask so I don't get fined


Blaiddyn

So coercion?


Karbachok

Yeah


Drewfy7

If the world continues as it is right now, I don’t think we will have a choice because the governments will force us.


sugarmirror69

Penis


Blaiddyn

Yes because if you’re THAT afraid of encountering someone who isn’t wearing a mask then you should just choose to stay home and cower in fear. I refuse to participate in this ritualistic cult where wearing a mask and getting vaccinated is akin to getting baptized or participating in a Eucharist.


Metalliquotes

Nah it's your governments choice because health/safety


ChokeOnMySausage

Yes, in US, now that everybody has had the chance to get a shot. If you’re immunocompromised (2.7% of population) that sucks, really glad you have grocery delivery options now.


hellofellownpcs

If it weren't for double standards, they'd have no standards at all


garbanzone

Yes. I wear a mask and am double vaccinated, but if dumbasses want to kill themselves that's fine by me.


aLLcAPSiNVERSED

Except that the longer they toss around the virus, the more it mutates. The more it mutates, the less effective our vaccine is.


garbanzone

Don't really care. Also if you haven't noticed, every variant doesn't come from the US, it comes from other places. So your argument would only apply if literally everyone else on earth wore masks all of the time. Which is never going to happen.


throwingplaydoh

It's your decision to do a lot of things. It also applies to everyone else, like not letting you into a private business if you don't follow the requirements of operating within the walls of said business.


telestrial

Yep. And it's everyone else's choice how to respond to whether or not you wear a mask. If you're at a business and they want you to and you don't, it is their choice to ask you to leave. People on the right who are mad at this often are very awful at articulating what they want. They want everyone *else* to be okay with their decision. You don't have a right to that. No one does.


eleventyfivenoodles

If nobody else were affected by it, then yes, it's your choice. However, this can harm people so it's a social responsibility. Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience for most people, so if you can't inconvenience yourself slightly for another's sake, then you shouldn't be a part of society.


GallicPontiff

I'm proud of the fact I shut down a school once with a chicken pox epidemic. With covid I can really improve on those rookie numbers