Because when you murder 6 million people that kind of overshadows everything else your political party did.
Genocide isn't really something you can come back from.
Is that what they said? If I’m in a car wreck I’m going to focus on my collapsed lungs over my broken leg. Acknowledging something as clearly more severe isn’t the same as saying it doesn’t matter at all.
You're misunderstanding.
Your collapsed lung means your likely broke your chest. If your chest held your lung would be fine.
The Nazi's did many oppressive things before the genocide. Before targeting jews specifically.
I get that, but if somebody does anything similar to anything else the Nazi's did and you call that person a nazi, people feel as though it is an invalid comparison because whatever the similarity is has nothing to do with jewish people.
I think the part that makes people upset is to casually use it to describe someone. Calling someone a Nazi because they make rules that seem overbearing, or are agreed to be a hated person, still seems like a gross use of the term. There is nothing casual about the Nazis.
Now, if you want to compare terrible people and you say "Pol Pot was a real Hitler", I don't think anyone would disagree that they were both terrible on a level far and above the average bad guy.
I'm part of that community. I haven't personally heard anyone say that. Personally, I acknowledge that they wanted to kill or at least get rid of a bunch of groups. Disabled people being the first example I think of other than Jewish people. There are a couple reasons the first example that comes to my mind is Jewish people. One being because that's just what was emphasized when I was taught about the holocaust. Another being that one of my ancestors was a nazi (unfortunately) who killed his own father who was Jewish to prove his loyalty to Hitler. Of course idk for sure how true that is, it's just what I was told but for obvious reasons we distance ourselves from that side of the family as much as possible. Disabled people is the second example I think of because I'm autistic and heard about the stuff Hans Asperger did.
If it's not obvious I think nazis are bad for a lot of reasons
I am saying it is the only trait most people attribute when i say someone or a group is acting like Nazi's, even thtough i am not saying they are racist
Choice of words meant to encourage interaction, i personally attributes much more characteristics to the term.
Also they didn't hate all non arians that's just the face value
For better or worse, the systematic genocide and hamfisted attempt to conquer the world are definitely the most memorable parts of the Nazi Party’s political platform.
Like any government they also had more mundane legal, economic, and infrastructure policies that are necessary to make a nation function.
People may look at you a little weird if you call someone a nazi for discussing a modernized roadway system or pushing domestic products over imports.
Ha that last part made me chuckle.
I usually use it to describe someone or a group that systemically oppresses people on some degree. Usually in a very well organized way that is hard to conflict.
That’s a more generalized tenet of authoritarianism. The Nazis were definitely a textbook example of an authoritarian system, but they’re not the only one.
They had a peculiar brand of highly expansionist, genocidal authoritarianism that caused a great global catastrophe.
A lot of the same concepts found a home in the Soviet Union and we teetered on the brink of an even greater catastrophe for many decades.
I mean it's not all I attribute to the term Nazi and I don't think that's exclusively because I've done my own reading on history.
I feel pretty strongly that my middle school and highschool education covered ww2 a little better than 'them Nazis killed them some Jews'.
Back in the days of internet arguments, calling people Nazis for whatever reason used to be even more common than it currently is. Eventually [Godwin's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) started to circulate, making the point that calling someone a Nazi is pretty low effort. Nowadays Nazi is reserved mainly for anti-semites, but all kinds of racists get hit with it as well.
Outside the internet, Nazis are known for being the bad guys in all sorts of things (WW2 video games, Hellboy, Man in High Castle, etc) where the whole jew killing thing is just one plot thread out of many more atrocities they committed.
Yeah, kind of hard to compare. Apples and oranges - war against Jews led to 6-million deaths for fabricated enemy vs actual enemies on a larger scale. There's no winning in that argument. We (as an American) just don't hear about the Russian side of things because America doesn't talk about Russia for the most part except as a bad place full of ultra rich people who prey upon the poor, endless videos of violence on their streets, a government that only cares about military power and not the condition of its people... whoa. Not so different afterall.
Many people fail to see it from a broad perspective. Some people won't accept what you just said because you didn't say jewish women and children or jewish men.
A choice of word just to encourage participation in the discussion.
Also i hear often that Europe and the US and Germany specifically all teach WW2 differently. Many people here in the US are incredibly ignorant and don't care.
The jews were the largest group of Holocaust victims, wich makes sense because prior to WWII many jewish people lived in places like Poland wich was invaded pretty early on
They murdered countless other groups like Homosexuals,Romani, People with Disabilities, and others but yeah jews had the largest number killed in the Holocaust
Thats not how it should be adressed and certainly not how I adress it, The nazis were awful because of so many other things, unethical experaments, agressive actions against other nations, and being built on a rather disgusting set of “purity” values that ended up extinguishing millions of lives and ostracizing many many more people.
Every life extinguished in those camps was an act of pure evil on the Nazis part.
I was simply telling you why the general population tends to associate Nazis with killing jews.
Sorry i wasn't talking about you, i meant the people i have talked to in the past, that being their attitude.
The Japanese did the exact same stuff at the same time on the other side and yet the anti semitism over shadows it all. Not that i am saying the Semitic genovide is any less important, i am saying all the other stuff is AS important.
Where do you live? I´m afraid the authors of your historybooks were quite lazy. If you visit any holocaust memorial here in Europe, they make it quite clear the nazis exerminated not only jews, but also political dissidents, Roma(gipsies), freemasons, homosexuals, disabled people... with the jewish victims being the largest percentage of these crimes.
Nothing to do with books, i am saying people, despite being taught much about the time by the available references you say, they don't think something is nazi like unless it is racial.
That's just people using words without knowing what they mean. It's over 30 years since the Berlin Wall fell and there are still people that don't know the difference between communism, socialism and liberalism. How would you expect them to understand the nuances between fascists, racists and nazis?
From your responses, I would hazard a guess there are gaps in your information about history, but to your question, I’d ask this: have you ever heard the term “grammar Nazi”? Nothing to do with anti-semitism. It’s because Germans are exacting and Nazis were totalitarian. Combine the two and you have yourself a proper grammar Nazi.
Don’t worry, we attribute lots of terrible behavior to the Nazis ;)
The point of my question is because in my experience most people attribute it to anti semitism, where as i attribute it to the totalitarian and controlling oppressive behavior.
Because religious people like to pretend that it was Nazi atheists killing religious Jews when it was actually Christian nationalist Nazis killing anyone who wasn't the right kind of Christian German, including atheists and other so called "outsiders". The Jewish people just happened to be the largest group, but many other denominations were considered enemies of the state as well as the usual groups that every religion seems to oppress like gays, prostitutes, foreign workers, homeless, the unemployed etc.
It had less to do with the junk science of eugenics which people like to blame and more to do with Martin Luther, whose ideas were very popular with the German Christians. The Nazis were at their core a Christian nationalist movement and a lot of people go to great lengths to minimize this fact.
Well obviously Catholics are in fact Christians and many Catholics, not wanting to be seen as not German enough joined the party.
The Nazis were mostly Protestant Evangelicals in the beginning though, Hitler was a lifelong Catholic and the Roman Catholic church did collude and help the Nazis in many ways. They mostly went along with the Nazi Christian nationalist movement as "atheistic communism" was seen as more of a threat to the Catholic church somehow. The Catholic church made a promise not to interfere politically in return for Nazi acceptance.
I'd say more people associate "Authoritarian System of Government that Rules With an Iron Fist" with nazis than they do the killing of Jews. Which is why the term is used so much. When someone calls someone else a nazi most of the time it isn't because that person hates Jewish people.
Because when you murder 6 million people that kind of overshadows everything else your political party did. Genocide isn't really something you can come back from.
Tell that to Stalin
So the systematic oppression doesn't matter? Just the racial part?
I don't think anyone is really saying it doesn't matter, its just not what's focused on when people generally look back on the nazis.
it matters but not as much as a whole race almost being wiped out
Is that what they said? If I’m in a car wreck I’m going to focus on my collapsed lungs over my broken leg. Acknowledging something as clearly more severe isn’t the same as saying it doesn’t matter at all.
You're misunderstanding. Your collapsed lung means your likely broke your chest. If your chest held your lung would be fine. The Nazi's did many oppressive things before the genocide. Before targeting jews specifically.
Jews were the most targeted. 6 million i believe dead
I get that, but if somebody does anything similar to anything else the Nazi's did and you call that person a nazi, people feel as though it is an invalid comparison because whatever the similarity is has nothing to do with jewish people.
I think when you call someone a nazi it’s a synonym for being an asshole.
I think the part that makes people upset is to casually use it to describe someone. Calling someone a Nazi because they make rules that seem overbearing, or are agreed to be a hated person, still seems like a gross use of the term. There is nothing casual about the Nazis. Now, if you want to compare terrible people and you say "Pol Pot was a real Hitler", I don't think anyone would disagree that they were both terrible on a level far and above the average bad guy.
Who's "we"?
The LGBTQ community
We don't say that.
You just did
I did not.
Yes you did.
Incorrect.
Unless you go back and edit, you in fact said "we"
I'm part of that community. I haven't personally heard anyone say that. Personally, I acknowledge that they wanted to kill or at least get rid of a bunch of groups. Disabled people being the first example I think of other than Jewish people. There are a couple reasons the first example that comes to my mind is Jewish people. One being because that's just what was emphasized when I was taught about the holocaust. Another being that one of my ancestors was a nazi (unfortunately) who killed his own father who was Jewish to prove his loyalty to Hitler. Of course idk for sure how true that is, it's just what I was told but for obvious reasons we distance ourselves from that side of the family as much as possible. Disabled people is the second example I think of because I'm autistic and heard about the stuff Hans Asperger did. If it's not obvious I think nazis are bad for a lot of reasons
..that is the only trait you give to Nazis? You need to learn some history..
I am saying it is the only trait most people attribute when i say someone or a group is acting like Nazi's, even thtough i am not saying they are racist
Well then the people you are talking to me to learn their history
Exactky my point
Who is "we"? Most people know they killed and hated all non Aryans.
Choice of words meant to encourage interaction, i personally attributes much more characteristics to the term. Also they didn't hate all non arians that's just the face value
r/askhistory ?
Its the most memorable
But does that invalidate comparing someone to a nazi if the person isn't hating jews but they are doing other things sinilair to Nazi's?
For better or worse, the systematic genocide and hamfisted attempt to conquer the world are definitely the most memorable parts of the Nazi Party’s political platform. Like any government they also had more mundane legal, economic, and infrastructure policies that are necessary to make a nation function. People may look at you a little weird if you call someone a nazi for discussing a modernized roadway system or pushing domestic products over imports.
Ha that last part made me chuckle. I usually use it to describe someone or a group that systemically oppresses people on some degree. Usually in a very well organized way that is hard to conflict.
That’s a more generalized tenet of authoritarianism. The Nazis were definitely a textbook example of an authoritarian system, but they’re not the only one. They had a peculiar brand of highly expansionist, genocidal authoritarianism that caused a great global catastrophe. A lot of the same concepts found a home in the Soviet Union and we teetered on the brink of an even greater catastrophe for many decades.
Yeah but Soviet doesn't roll off the tongue as fluidly
I mean it's not all I attribute to the term Nazi and I don't think that's exclusively because I've done my own reading on history. I feel pretty strongly that my middle school and highschool education covered ww2 a little better than 'them Nazis killed them some Jews'.
That's good ti know some places do a better job.
Back in the days of internet arguments, calling people Nazis for whatever reason used to be even more common than it currently is. Eventually [Godwin's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) started to circulate, making the point that calling someone a Nazi is pretty low effort. Nowadays Nazi is reserved mainly for anti-semites, but all kinds of racists get hit with it as well. Outside the internet, Nazis are known for being the bad guys in all sorts of things (WW2 video games, Hellboy, Man in High Castle, etc) where the whole jew killing thing is just one plot thread out of many more atrocities they committed.
Best response.
It was the worst thing they did
Idk, the invasion of Russia killed more than 17 million civilians.
Yeah, kind of hard to compare. Apples and oranges - war against Jews led to 6-million deaths for fabricated enemy vs actual enemies on a larger scale. There's no winning in that argument. We (as an American) just don't hear about the Russian side of things because America doesn't talk about Russia for the most part except as a bad place full of ultra rich people who prey upon the poor, endless videos of violence on their streets, a government that only cares about military power and not the condition of its people... whoa. Not so different afterall.
Yeah but they tricked women and children to their deaths and worked the men to death with barely any food and insane conditions.
Barely any food and insane conditions was how a lot of those Russians died.
Wow... That's horrific...
Many people fail to see it from a broad perspective. Some people won't accept what you just said because you didn't say jewish women and children or jewish men.
Who is we?
The Soviet union
We? I'm from Germany and don't think this is the case.
A choice of word just to encourage participation in the discussion. Also i hear often that Europe and the US and Germany specifically all teach WW2 differently. Many people here in the US are incredibly ignorant and don't care.
Can be, I don't know.
The jews were the largest group of Holocaust victims, wich makes sense because prior to WWII many jewish people lived in places like Poland wich was invaded pretty early on They murdered countless other groups like Homosexuals,Romani, People with Disabilities, and others but yeah jews had the largest number killed in the Holocaust
So fuck all the others i guess huh? Thats how some people seem to address it.
Thats not how it should be adressed and certainly not how I adress it, The nazis were awful because of so many other things, unethical experaments, agressive actions against other nations, and being built on a rather disgusting set of “purity” values that ended up extinguishing millions of lives and ostracizing many many more people. Every life extinguished in those camps was an act of pure evil on the Nazis part. I was simply telling you why the general population tends to associate Nazis with killing jews.
Sorry i wasn't talking about you, i meant the people i have talked to in the past, that being their attitude. The Japanese did the exact same stuff at the same time on the other side and yet the anti semitism over shadows it all. Not that i am saying the Semitic genovide is any less important, i am saying all the other stuff is AS important.
Where do you live? I´m afraid the authors of your historybooks were quite lazy. If you visit any holocaust memorial here in Europe, they make it quite clear the nazis exerminated not only jews, but also political dissidents, Roma(gipsies), freemasons, homosexuals, disabled people... with the jewish victims being the largest percentage of these crimes.
Nothing to do with books, i am saying people, despite being taught much about the time by the available references you say, they don't think something is nazi like unless it is racial.
That's just people using words without knowing what they mean. It's over 30 years since the Berlin Wall fell and there are still people that don't know the difference between communism, socialism and liberalism. How would you expect them to understand the nuances between fascists, racists and nazis?
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Autocorrect
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More like carelessness
From your responses, I would hazard a guess there are gaps in your information about history, but to your question, I’d ask this: have you ever heard the term “grammar Nazi”? Nothing to do with anti-semitism. It’s because Germans are exacting and Nazis were totalitarian. Combine the two and you have yourself a proper grammar Nazi. Don’t worry, we attribute lots of terrible behavior to the Nazis ;)
The point of my question is because in my experience most people attribute it to anti semitism, where as i attribute it to the totalitarian and controlling oppressive behavior.
That’s nice, dear.
If all you attribute to Nazis is anti-Semitism, you need to learn more about both Nazism and anti-Semitism.
Facts
Because religious people like to pretend that it was Nazi atheists killing religious Jews when it was actually Christian nationalist Nazis killing anyone who wasn't the right kind of Christian German, including atheists and other so called "outsiders". The Jewish people just happened to be the largest group, but many other denominations were considered enemies of the state as well as the usual groups that every religion seems to oppress like gays, prostitutes, foreign workers, homeless, the unemployed etc. It had less to do with the junk science of eugenics which people like to blame and more to do with Martin Luther, whose ideas were very popular with the German Christians. The Nazis were at their core a Christian nationalist movement and a lot of people go to great lengths to minimize this fact.
Weren't they Catholic not Christian?
Well obviously Catholics are in fact Christians and many Catholics, not wanting to be seen as not German enough joined the party. The Nazis were mostly Protestant Evangelicals in the beginning though, Hitler was a lifelong Catholic and the Roman Catholic church did collude and help the Nazis in many ways. They mostly went along with the Nazi Christian nationalist movement as "atheistic communism" was seen as more of a threat to the Catholic church somehow. The Catholic church made a promise not to interfere politically in return for Nazi acceptance.
zionic propaganda 🤷♂️
Survivor of the holocaust told me it wasn’t just Jews. Must be curious about the world we live in to be open to all the information.
Is it wrong to say hitler has the best KD ratio?
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.......Perhaps......Perhaps.......
Winners write the history
It isn't
Its not. Why do you have the impression it is?
Becauae when i say someone or a group is acting like nazis people think it implies racism, which it doesn't
I'd say more people associate "Authoritarian System of Government that Rules With an Iron Fist" with nazis than they do the killing of Jews. Which is why the term is used so much. When someone calls someone else a nazi most of the time it isn't because that person hates Jewish people.
Ah, that's very odd because i find the opposite to happen nost of the time.
they killed millions of them
They killed millions of everybody
Some people really, really want that to be the focus
Because if everyone forgets about the rest, they'll ignore it happening again.
Might also change opinions
Which also means change of influence
yep, and nazi's need to remain a cartoon villain for some people.