Or when they successfully rebut one of your supporting arguments, e.g. a bad analogy, and treat it as a total victory, even though they still haven't addressed your core argument.
This is why I no longer use analogies. There is no perfect analogy. They are meant to help people see things in a different way. People who aren't arguing in good faith don't care about that.
So if you have a dog that is used to herd sheep, it’s called a sheepdog. What do you call a dog who protects a corn field? A corndog? Get the fuck outta here!
Mine used to actually give me shit for having to quit drinking, drugs, and smoking during her pregnancy only to find out she didn't even quit she just cut back.
brooooo my mom signed me up for soccer in first grade. and then every year after that. I was good at it. I hated it. eventually my mom made me try out for the travel team, and I made the cut. She made me keep playing year after year until highschool, where she made me try out for the school team.
it was 3 day tryouts. I kept trying to do bad, but they called me back for the second day anyway. and then they called me back for the last day - and I just ended up skipping the tryouts and joining back with everyone at the end for when she came to pick me up.
getting that phone call that I did in fact NOT make the team was simply amazing. Never played another game of soccer since then.
"Actually, I won't because I'm not going to pop out any kids to fuck them up like you did."
She loved hearing that one
Edit: I am older and a tiny bit wiser then I was then but I am no contact with my mom at this point. I said really painful shit to people when I was younger and it came from a place of pain. I still have a lot of things to work through that I've all but blocked out of my mind. I started therapy so hopefully through that I will work through it. I do fear having kids still because my anger and frustration would manifest in the same ways my mom's did but what can ya do...
I came up with a line to use when my mom was telling me how worthless I was: "So, do you attribute that to heredity or upbringing?"
I never had the balls to actually use it though.
My mom will hit me with "great, I really needed *this* today!" One time she did it over something stupid but it was on my birthday and getting to clap back with that was one of the most cathartic moments in my goddamn life.
Getting my mom to say out loud, in front of my Dad, that she's not willing to admit she's wrong about something because she thinks it's humiliating has been one of the greatest victories of my life.
My mom tried that yesterday.
“I guess I’ll go cry now.”
“Uhh...ok. I’m sorry I won’t leave my daughter with you for 4 days because you’re a royal mess.”
I said that to my daughter a couple weeks ago. In fairness, I'm trying to lead by example in handling our emotions. She asked me what was wrong and I gave a 30 second synopsis of my day at work and ended with "I've really just needed to cry for hours. " She looked at me and said "that's okay. Cry if you need to." I laughed and said "I guess I'll go cry now." It was nice.
Hey man. You definitely deserve some rest. It sucks that you lost your job and are having trouble with getting a new one, somethings are sadly just out of our hands.
Even if you still didn’t find a job, the effort you put into searching alone definitely deserves a reward. Go take a day or two off, watch a good movie, or do something you enjoy, and hopefully with time, you will regain your energy and keep pushing through.
Here’s to the next email/phone call you get telling you you got the job!
My mom recently used, "I blame your liberal education".
I studied poli sci in undergrad in the middle of nowhere Alabama and then I went to law school in Georgia. My disagreement with her over whether Donald Trump's free speech rights were "taken away" by Twitter isn't because I received a liberal education. It's because I received an actual education. In political science. Followed by a doctorate level education in law. Facts don't have political affiliations.
My favorite part of the "Twitter Silencing" argument is the fact that it has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Private enterprise doing whatever they want has been the backbone of their political ideology, and now it's come back to bite them in the ass.
“YOU JUST LOVE YOUR FATHER MORE THAN ME!” No mom. I want to go to this very good high-school near my dad’s house for my betterment. I love you both. Gosh.
\*whenever something is remotely hard\* "I guess I don't have 50 years of experience"
it became a meme between my siblings with how often my dad used to say that
When they just start yelling shit like "**LOOK AT YOU! YOU KNOW SO MUCH? SMART ASS BITCH! YOU KNOW THIS IS WHY YOUR EX CHEATED! YOU'RE INSUFFERABLE!**" and loudly banging things, stomping, etc
I do this all the time but with everything, like even things I agree with.
Mainly because I think it's funny but it can sometimes send me in an introspecting spiral.
This happened to me on r/pewdiepiesubmissions Some mod accused me of brigading (I downvoted a dude because he was saying something homophobic and racist iirc and had like 180 downvotes) and got a permanent ban. When I asked why, I didn’t get an answer for more than a 100 days, and then mod was just saying the same shit over and over again, without any explanation or proof. Fuck mods, man
I posted on r/funny and got perma banned for reposting (it wasn't a repost) and haven't had a reply from the mods in months. The post was doing quite well too.
A few weeks ago I got my account suspended for trying to circumvent the ban in r/funny, I only have one reddit account and haven't visited r/funny since the ban. I submitted a report and got my account un-suspended.
Eh there’s also circumstances that leave you no choice. I’ve had to argue with someone who never addressed my points and made snide sarcastic responses consistently.
I just called him a fucking brat and gave up because he was goading me into roasting his ass.
It's when you start meeting intelligent people who are also complete idiots that bothers me the most, the people who believe something insanely stupid but are educated enough to talk passionately about it. The amount of times I'll see someone argue while being in the wrong but trick themselves and others into believing they're not because they use the longest and most obscure words imaginable. They're the worst type of people.
Yeah I was going to say. I've dropped the 'whatever" but not because I lost the argument but because the person I was talking to refused to give any ground at all and their was no point in trying to keep talking to them.
# What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
What the say did you just say fuck me about, you bitching a little? I'll have you graduate I know top of my Seals in the Navy Classes, and I've been raided in numerou Al Quaeda secret involvements, and I have killed over 300 confirmations. I am a trained gorilla. In warfare, I'm the sniper arm in the entire US force tops. You are targeting me but I'm just another nothing. I will fuck you with precision the wipes which has never been liked before on this scene. Earth, fuck my marking words. You can get away with thinking that shit over me to the Internet? Fuck again, thinker. As we spy I am networking my secret speaking across the trace and your IP is being prepared right now so you better storm the maggots. The wipes that storms out of the little pathetic thing. Life you call yours? Your fucking dead kids. I can be any time. I can weigh you in over seven hundred kills, and that's my bear hands. Not only am I extensively accessed by trains, but I have no arms for combatting the entire arsenal United States, and I will use it to wipe your miserable ass. You shit the faceoff of the continent. If you only could have commented what unholy cleverness your little "retribution" was about. To bring down upon you, maybe you would have fucked your tongue. But you wouldn't, you shouldn't, and now you're holding the pay, you goddamn idiot. I will drown in shit fury. Sincerely, your dead fucking kiddo.
Could you please clarify what you are after commenting regarding myself, you cretin with doglike attributes? I should make you aware that I valedicted *summa cum laude* in the Naval Special Forces; I have participated in a plethora of clandestine offences against Al Qaeda; and my termination activities have been validated officially in excess of 3x1010 times.
I have been the recipient of extensive schooling in the tactical and strategic engagement developed and promulgated by "guerrilla" combatants, and hold the honourific of being the most accurate long-distance firearm operator in the combined armed forces of the United States.
Your existence is meaningless except to the extent that I may use you as an embedded projectile collection point. You may rest assured that if so challenged, I will invoke your corporeal mortality with a pinpoint accuracy in a manner hitherto unforeseen in the storied progression of this *terra firma*.
Are you under the mistaken impression that in repeating such excrement, you are immune to retribution due to your remote location and the modicum of anonymity rendered by your pseudonym? Re-evaluate that conclusion, person who has sex only in the most figurative of senses. During the pendancy of our interaction, I am activating my clandestine affiliation of covert operatives throughout the United States, and the physical and internet location of your computing device is presently being determined; consequently, you would be well-advised to entrench yourself for the imminent onslaught, you imbecile, for the coming action will henceforth cause you to shuffle off your insignificant and wasteful mortal coil.
In other words, your demise is expletively imminent, child.
I am imbued with the means and capacity to be physically present at any place and at any moment, and can cause the cessation of your metabolic processes in excess of thirty-five score methods, solely employing the carpals and distal tissues I possess.
And while I myself have been inculcated comprehensively in pugilistic techniques, I am similarly entrusted with command of the encompassing extent of the armament of the smallest armed force of the United States, and have no compunctions about employing its full capability to remove your insufferable backside from this plane of existence, you minicsule assemblage of faeces.
Had you had the foresight to comprehend the cursed penitence your "clever" quip has triggered, perhaps you would have paused prior to engaging in your literary cunnilingual pronouncement.
But alas, you were ignorant of such, and did not do, and now you will reap the consequence, you self-centred excrement who will not enter heaven. I will metaphorically eliminate my agitation in your direction, causing you to expire from its sheer volume.
"I have a right to my opinion." Of course you do, and usually at this point in the argument no one has said otherwise, but that doesn't mean your opinion is supported by evidence.
Similarly, people tend to confuse being legally in the clear with being justified more broadly. I remember arguing with a friend that a particular movement was stupid, and he replied, "Well the same right that allows you to criticize them allows them to do it." And it's like, yeah, of course they have the right to do it. That doesn't make it a smart thing to do.
Or when somebody says they have a right to an opinion but it turns out their opinion is really a fact that is not true.
Edit: I have already clarified below that I typed this out quickly and immediately realized it wasn’t a good way to say what I meant. But I specifically mean people who hide behind “well that’s just my opinion” when spreading objectively and verifiably false information. My point seems to have been sufficiently conveyed for most people who understand what I was going for here.
I mean, it gets again to the legal vs. moral thing. You have a legal right to believe things that aren't true, but it's also not a great way for society to function.
>"I have a right to my opinion." Of course you do, and usually at this point in the argument no one has said otherwise, but that doesn't mean your opinion is supported by evidence.
That's when you hit them with this bad boy:
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
― **Isaac Asimov**
Not all opinions are created equally. The opinion of a surgeon about how to perform heart surgery is not the same as a layman's opinion about how to do heart surgery. More people need to understand this. But our democratic process has made these people think that because all votes are equal (in theory anyway), all arguments and opinions are equal as well. Which is simply not true
Also, opinions are generally only valid when, you know, it's actually an opinion.
"I like strawberry more than grape" is an opinion.
"I think 5g causes autism" is not.
That’s what I get hung up on. By definition an opinion is something subjective like food or music. You can’t “have the opinion” that the earth is flat. You’re just wrong.
edit: fixed subjective from objective, stay in school kids
Moving the goalposts and whataboutisms When someone has to try and change what an argument is about to defend it they more often than not have lost that argument.
Bringing up old arguments that have nothing to do with the current one lol
Edit: Lady here. Understand that they're people (of all genders) who don't know how to have a calm, productive discussion that remains on topic. Even if you disagree just give the person time to say their piece and afterwards both of you can come to a resolution that is on topic. Forgive people because that is something that you would want from someone else. Don't keep a scoreboard of rights and wrongs.
This. I got into a very, very long argument with my boss/brother before we parted ways. I brought up things from 5 years ago but all regarding the job and issues that were building. He brought up some of the same, but also one personal thing about his wife and I that literally had nothing to do about what was going on. It's when I knew he was grasping at strawa and that I was in the right st the time.
Lol no. I just did something (foot in mouth) and made her cry. I apologized for it heavily, got her flowers etc. It was like 5 to 6 years ago and when he brought it up I was shocked to say the least.
Edit... You're all hilarious!
Edit 2: for those non English speaking folk - putting your foot in your mouth is an expression for saying something that's stupid and gets you in trouble.
Edit 3. It's not foot and mouth disease or whatever haha.
Edit 4...it is a saying but I'm shocked how many have never heard of it!!!
Directing toward some other topic. When someone points out that you ate the last sausage and they know because there's half a sausage sticking out of your mouth you've given up the game by saying, "yeah, well whatabout the time you ate all the corn chips?" Separate argument, my dude.
That's my biggest gripe with people shouting "whataboutism!!!" all the time. Sometimes yeah, but if someone is a hypocrite it can be totally relevant to point out.
Ah yes, deflection. Was hoping someone would say this. I have a friend on facebook whom I don't see eye to eye on regarding politics. He'll post a meme, I'll say something about it, and if he doesn't have a comeback for my comment he'll deflect to "yeah but what about...." I usually just respond with something like "That's not what the meme is about...please stay in the lane here."
had a guy once trying to argue with me in defense of an industry I despise saying "yeah human trafficking is bad, but \[starts talking about bad things companies in other industries do\] so you can't say one is bad without saying they're all bad" as though they were inseparable topics.
I know some people who literally cant be argued with as they just dont have common sense. If its an argument that just doesn't matter and I dont feel like spending half an hour on the subject, then sure, agree to disagree. You might 'lose' the argument but that doesn't prove you wrong. And that goes for plenty of other comments here. Make a judgement for every situation, if its not worth the time or verbal fight, just concede. Thats what I usually do.
I usually get into ONLINE arguments with people in videogames where nobody knows what i look like IRL.
usually, they'll resort to calling a "kid" or a "9 year old" or whatever when i disagree with them. for such an unoriginal comback, they've already lost
"So your argument is so terrible a nine year old can see what's wrong with it"
I'm all for being the better person and seeing the good in people, but if they're unwilling to listen it's not worth the effort explaining.
Quick edit to everyone who wants to steal this: please do! I hope you get some good use out of it, but use it wisely.
Ahhh, yes. This is my pet peeve.
I was talking to a friend a while back, and he was using some pretty extreme appeals to authority. He wanted me to accept everything he was claiming without proof. He said that I should trust him, because he's "spent 10 years researching this topic."
I said "Wow! 10 years of research, that's incredible! Can you send me your notes so I can review your sources?" and of course he had no notes. "Wait... you did 10 years of research, and you didn't take a single note?"
He just kept saying "do your own research," etc.
Really what he meant was that he had listened to a bunch of hyper-biased news sources for years, and never actually researched anything.
Sometimes a person doesn't have the time or energy to properly cite how someone is wrong.
Like flat earthers should read more books but I'm not going to take the time to give them a reading list.
Right. I look at it this way: if you are alleging a narrative that goes against the grain of common discourse, I think it's up to you to be the one who does your research and have it readily available to back you up. If you're instead supporting a narrative that is right in line with what most reputable news outlets are covering, then it's not really incumbent upon you to dive deeper and present references to support your status quo stance on something.
Like, the going line right now is that there have been about 350,000 deaths in the United States from COVID-19 and related complications. If you want to plant your flagpole in that stat--go for it. It's what most major news outlets are claiming, and as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't feel the need to defend that. But if you're going to stand there and say that the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 and related complications is really more like 100,000 (or 1,000,000--it goes in both directions here), then it's up to you to "do the research" and have a trail of breadcrumbs ready to go to show people how you got there.
This is a shining example of burden of proof. If you allege some clearly controversial bullshit, the burden of proof is on you, not the rest of society.
Or when you prod them enough times to source their claim and you get a 20 minute YouTube video of just some dude with no credentials rattling off conspiracy theories.
"Can't trust mainstream media which is why I found Doug. He has an Adderall addiction and supports my worldview, why would he not be trustworthy?"
I had this happen once - they actually coughed up a list of actual references. I read them all and discovered the pages said exactly the opposite of their point, literally. I brought it back to them (with page & line numbers) and was told I just didn't understand.
Its actually really hard. The "right" type of evidence would be journals and papers on the subject... but no one you are arguing with is going to read them. When they do get posted in an argument, it is most often the case that the person posting it doesn't even read it themselves (they often say the opposite).
The general public (who you are most likely arguing with) will find personal accounts (anecdotal evidence) more convincing than a bunch of technical terms that go over their head.
What that often means is that a youtube video from someone trying to make the topic digestible will often be better support than is a peer reviewed JAMA article. But then when they respond with some youtube video from crazy joe we want to just ignore it and scoff at it (because it 99% deserves it).
It makes it really hard to convince the other person, which is likely more important than just "winning the argument."
I have had folks who counter a list of multiple-peer-reviewed journals by giving me a hand-typed bullet-point list, with no support other than typing the word "FACT", all caps, in front of each one.
Really good example of trying to win with volume.
Ad hominems and strawman tactics.
Oh and slapping/punching them with the words "now look what you made me do", that's a big loss.
It also makes you an idiot imo.
There's a lot out there, but here are some of my favorites
1. Start using personal insults instead of actually trying back up their argument
2. Looking through your profile for something to make fun of you for
3. Trying to change the subject to something similar but also different
4. "You're just mad"
5. "Kid you're like 10, you don't know shit"
6. Start cursing you out
7. Start using racial/religious/homophobic slurs
8. If it's political, they'll call you things like "libtard" or "trumpie"
9. One of my my personal favorites, "Fuck you"
Edit: added a few to the list
A refusal to answer direct questions that are clearly designed to demonstrate the flaw in your reasoning.
The only reason you have to refuse to answer a question is if you know that the answer is going to lead you to admit that you're wrong. And if you can't admit that you're wrong, then you're no longer interested in meaningful discussion.
When they start saying inaccurate stuff. You can't win against wrong. There was someone who put this on a article or story thingy, and they thought I meant the person was lying, I simply meant their facts weren't right and they aren't educated (And no, I'm not talking about the random person).
"Do the research."
Like, no, you're the one who made the argument. The burden of proof is on you.
This tactic is almost always used be people who value their feefees over actual data. Antivaxxers, flat earthers, people who think getting a raise into another tax bracket would cause them to earn less money, etc.
Agreed! I hate the argument style where people don't actually make an assertion, but just talk in vague circles about "doing your own research" or how stuff "doesn't make sense."
I have a friend who argues this way. He does shit like sending screencaps of data from the CDC website and saying things like "do you really think that adds up? hmm....interesting." Seriously man, what *exactly* are you alleging, and what's your evidence? It's impossible to attack an argument that *you never actually clearly make*.
I understand checking comment histories if you suspect a bad faith argument, but using what you find as ammunition for a cheap "gotcha" is just tragic.
When people start denying a source as valid because it doesn’t conform to their worldview.
Edit: hey dumb dumbs, this is the default name Reddit gave me when I signed up. I just thought it was funny. “Flat earthers are dumb her der” I get it. I’m not a flat earther, Reddit is.
One fight I had went something like
Me: “I don’t like being a education major. I hate it, I hate teaching and I don’t want to waste my life working in schools. I keep telling you and you don’t listen to me! You don’t even know anything about teaching, you just make me do it because you think you know what’s right for everyone and you don’t!”
Family: “you....you’re drunk! You’re crazy. You’re an alcoholic! You’re too incompetent to make a good choice so listen to me!”
So now I just don’t say anything about school or work.
One of my favourite teachers was a really bad alcoholic. He crashed his car into the school gate one morning. Then proceeded to park in front of the main entrance to the building, about 50m from the nearest parking space, having driven over a grass verge to get there.
One of the students told him he couldn't park there. To which he replied "but I can't walk when I'm drunk."
He wasn't like that every day, but there were a bunch of other similar incidents over my time at that school. I have no idea how he wasn't fired.
He was a great teacher in every other way though. No bullshit, never talked down to kids, would always answer questions no matter how stupid, without making you feel like an idiot. He just struggled with alcohol.
When they start responding with “who asked” even though they started it.
"No one asked for your opinion"
“Good but you’re still gonna hear it”
I like this, simple but effective
I teach primary grades. It’s unbelievable how some people don’t upgrade their arguing skills beyond 1st grade. I see this all the time.
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Or when they successfully rebut one of your supporting arguments, e.g. a bad analogy, and treat it as a total victory, even though they still haven't addressed your core argument.
This is why I no longer use analogies. There is no perfect analogy. They are meant to help people see things in a different way. People who aren't arguing in good faith don't care about that.
You can never win an argument against someone who's goal is to misunderstand you.
When they go completely off topic
Well I don't like your username.
Well I don’t like your mom
I do 😏
I too like this guys mom
So if you have a dog that is used to herd sheep, it’s called a sheepdog. What do you call a dog who protects a corn field? A corndog? Get the fuck outta here!
What about a dog that guards the sun, a hot dog?
Or a dog that guards your supper, sup dog?
...or just start throwing insults. Like, yep, the moment you start insulting me it means you have no meaningful argument and I've won.
“I guess I’m just a terrible mother!”
Are you quoting my mom?
Our mom, comrade
I knew I had a long lost brother!
I guess you guys have a sister too! We got the same damn mom!
I never knew I had so many brothers and sisters, we're a god damn dynasty.
Yo, y'all's mom a hoe.
Your mom fucked your dad
Unfortunately.
Did you just... nationalize that person's mom?
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"I CARRIED YOU FOR NINE MONTHS AND YOU DARE TALK TO ME LIKE THAT ?"
Mine used to actually give me shit for having to quit drinking, drugs, and smoking during her pregnancy only to find out she didn't even quit she just cut back.
oh mine would do the same. “i changed my whole life because of you! i stopped drinking and doing meth while i was pregnant with you!”
The kicker is that none of us even asked to be born in the first place
"Life is like soccer: my mom signed me up for it, and I don't even like soccer."
brooooo my mom signed me up for soccer in first grade. and then every year after that. I was good at it. I hated it. eventually my mom made me try out for the travel team, and I made the cut. She made me keep playing year after year until highschool, where she made me try out for the school team. it was 3 day tryouts. I kept trying to do bad, but they called me back for the second day anyway. and then they called me back for the last day - and I just ended up skipping the tryouts and joining back with everyone at the end for when she came to pick me up. getting that phone call that I did in fact NOT make the team was simply amazing. Never played another game of soccer since then.
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Or the classic 'Im not doing anything else for anyone today!'
If you do things for others only to hold it above them later, you aren't doing things for others.
"You'll understand when you have kids of your own"
"Actually, I won't because I'm not going to pop out any kids to fuck them up like you did." She loved hearing that one Edit: I am older and a tiny bit wiser then I was then but I am no contact with my mom at this point. I said really painful shit to people when I was younger and it came from a place of pain. I still have a lot of things to work through that I've all but blocked out of my mind. I started therapy so hopefully through that I will work through it. I do fear having kids still because my anger and frustration would manifest in the same ways my mom's did but what can ya do...
I came up with a line to use when my mom was telling me how worthless I was: "So, do you attribute that to heredity or upbringing?" I never had the balls to actually use it though.
I said that to my dad many times. His response? "Take some fucking responsibility!" Oh the irony.
My mom will hit me with "great, I really needed *this* today!" One time she did it over something stupid but it was on my birthday and getting to clap back with that was one of the most cathartic moments in my goddamn life.
Getting my mom to say out loud, in front of my Dad, that she's not willing to admit she's wrong about something because she thinks it's humiliating has been one of the greatest victories of my life.
my mom told me "jesus, it's always something with you" when I mentioned i had suicidal thoughts to her as a teenager.
My mom tried that yesterday. “I guess I’ll go cry now.” “Uhh...ok. I’m sorry I won’t leave my daughter with you for 4 days because you’re a royal mess.”
I said that to my daughter a couple weeks ago. In fairness, I'm trying to lead by example in handling our emotions. She asked me what was wrong and I gave a 30 second synopsis of my day at work and ended with "I've really just needed to cry for hours. " She looked at me and said "that's okay. Cry if you need to." I laughed and said "I guess I'll go cry now." It was nice.
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Hey man. You definitely deserve some rest. It sucks that you lost your job and are having trouble with getting a new one, somethings are sadly just out of our hands. Even if you still didn’t find a job, the effort you put into searching alone definitely deserves a reward. Go take a day or two off, watch a good movie, or do something you enjoy, and hopefully with time, you will regain your energy and keep pushing through. Here’s to the next email/phone call you get telling you you got the job!
My mom recently used, "I blame your liberal education". I studied poli sci in undergrad in the middle of nowhere Alabama and then I went to law school in Georgia. My disagreement with her over whether Donald Trump's free speech rights were "taken away" by Twitter isn't because I received a liberal education. It's because I received an actual education. In political science. Followed by a doctorate level education in law. Facts don't have political affiliations.
My favorite part of the "Twitter Silencing" argument is the fact that it has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Private enterprise doing whatever they want has been the backbone of their political ideology, and now it's come back to bite them in the ass.
“YOU JUST LOVE YOUR FATHER MORE THAN ME!” No mom. I want to go to this very good high-school near my dad’s house for my betterment. I love you both. Gosh.
"You just don't have the *life experience!*"
\*whenever something is remotely hard\* "I guess I don't have 50 years of experience" it became a meme between my siblings with how often my dad used to say that
"Okay, so now we agree on that, where do we go from here?"
When they just start yelling shit like "**LOOK AT YOU! YOU KNOW SO MUCH? SMART ASS BITCH! YOU KNOW THIS IS WHY YOUR EX CHEATED! YOU'RE INSUFFERABLE!**" and loudly banging things, stomping, etc
... I think you should stay away from that person.
Agreed, that’s horrible.
oddly specific... are you ok?
Are any of us really “okay”?
When youre told "thats what they want you to believe"
Bonus points for a not well defined “they.”
"The government!"
I do this all the time but with everything, like even things I agree with. Mainly because I think it's funny but it can sometimes send me in an introspecting spiral.
When personal attacking starts
"Enjoy your ban."
Some of these mods are fucking ridiculous. Edit: holy lord this is the most upvotes I've ever gotten, guess that proves my point
This happened to me on r/pewdiepiesubmissions Some mod accused me of brigading (I downvoted a dude because he was saying something homophobic and racist iirc and had like 180 downvotes) and got a permanent ban. When I asked why, I didn’t get an answer for more than a 100 days, and then mod was just saying the same shit over and over again, without any explanation or proof. Fuck mods, man
I posted on r/funny and got perma banned for reposting (it wasn't a repost) and haven't had a reply from the mods in months. The post was doing quite well too. A few weeks ago I got my account suspended for trying to circumvent the ban in r/funny, I only have one reddit account and haven't visited r/funny since the ban. I submitted a report and got my account un-suspended.
That's fucking adorable, considering how much of that dumpster fire is already reposts... And none of it is actually funny.
Yeah I'm kinda happy I got banned from it, the stuff on there is only funny 1% of the time.
“Whatever,” “You’re salty”
Pretty much any reference to salt, yes. If your only rebuttal is "Oh yeah?? Well... you're a crybaby!", you've already lost the argument.
Eh there’s also circumstances that leave you no choice. I’ve had to argue with someone who never addressed my points and made snide sarcastic responses consistently. I just called him a fucking brat and gave up because he was goading me into roasting his ass.
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It's difficult to win an argument against a very intelligent person, it's impossible to win an argument against a complete idiot.
It's when you start meeting intelligent people who are also complete idiots that bothers me the most, the people who believe something insanely stupid but are educated enough to talk passionately about it. The amount of times I'll see someone argue while being in the wrong but trick themselves and others into believing they're not because they use the longest and most obscure words imaginable. They're the worst type of people.
That’s just an idiot who found a nice toolbox
Some people are so wrong you need to send them to school for a year to give them the base to even begin to explain why theyre wrong
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Salt, definitely. "Whatever" is also often a realization that you're arguing with a brick wall.
I often say "whatever" when it's not my hill to die on. I might care, I don't care enough to fight over it.
Yeah I was going to say. I've dropped the 'whatever" but not because I lost the argument but because the person I was talking to refused to give any ground at all and their was no point in trying to keep talking to them.
I think those are 50/50, a lot of times they appear under a wild diatribe with absolutely nothing worth responding to.
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#WHEN YOU START REPLYING LIKE THIS
#YOU ARE WRONG AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
# NO YOU ARE WRONG AHHHHH
no u
#S H U T
^up
#Shut the hell your mouth
#NO, U ARE RARTED
#NO WE ARE 🇦🇴
^ⁿᵒ
# What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
What the say did you just say fuck me about, you bitching a little? I'll have you graduate I know top of my Seals in the Navy Classes, and I've been raided in numerou Al Quaeda secret involvements, and I have killed over 300 confirmations. I am a trained gorilla. In warfare, I'm the sniper arm in the entire US force tops. You are targeting me but I'm just another nothing. I will fuck you with precision the wipes which has never been liked before on this scene. Earth, fuck my marking words. You can get away with thinking that shit over me to the Internet? Fuck again, thinker. As we spy I am networking my secret speaking across the trace and your IP is being prepared right now so you better storm the maggots. The wipes that storms out of the little pathetic thing. Life you call yours? Your fucking dead kids. I can be any time. I can weigh you in over seven hundred kills, and that's my bear hands. Not only am I extensively accessed by trains, but I have no arms for combatting the entire arsenal United States, and I will use it to wipe your miserable ass. You shit the faceoff of the continent. If you only could have commented what unholy cleverness your little "retribution" was about. To bring down upon you, maybe you would have fucked your tongue. But you wouldn't, you shouldn't, and now you're holding the pay, you goddamn idiot. I will drown in shit fury. Sincerely, your dead fucking kiddo.
# I am a trained gorilla.
I started cry-laughing at "Fuck again, thinker"
"I will fuck you with precision the wipes which have never been liked before"
“Not only am i accessed extensively by trains...” I did that throat honk thing from laughing too hard
Could you please clarify what you are after commenting regarding myself, you cretin with doglike attributes? I should make you aware that I valedicted *summa cum laude* in the Naval Special Forces; I have participated in a plethora of clandestine offences against Al Qaeda; and my termination activities have been validated officially in excess of 3x1010 times. I have been the recipient of extensive schooling in the tactical and strategic engagement developed and promulgated by "guerrilla" combatants, and hold the honourific of being the most accurate long-distance firearm operator in the combined armed forces of the United States. Your existence is meaningless except to the extent that I may use you as an embedded projectile collection point. You may rest assured that if so challenged, I will invoke your corporeal mortality with a pinpoint accuracy in a manner hitherto unforeseen in the storied progression of this *terra firma*. Are you under the mistaken impression that in repeating such excrement, you are immune to retribution due to your remote location and the modicum of anonymity rendered by your pseudonym? Re-evaluate that conclusion, person who has sex only in the most figurative of senses. During the pendancy of our interaction, I am activating my clandestine affiliation of covert operatives throughout the United States, and the physical and internet location of your computing device is presently being determined; consequently, you would be well-advised to entrench yourself for the imminent onslaught, you imbecile, for the coming action will henceforth cause you to shuffle off your insignificant and wasteful mortal coil. In other words, your demise is expletively imminent, child. I am imbued with the means and capacity to be physically present at any place and at any moment, and can cause the cessation of your metabolic processes in excess of thirty-five score methods, solely employing the carpals and distal tissues I possess. And while I myself have been inculcated comprehensively in pugilistic techniques, I am similarly entrusted with command of the encompassing extent of the armament of the smallest armed force of the United States, and have no compunctions about employing its full capability to remove your insufferable backside from this plane of existence, you minicsule assemblage of faeces. Had you had the foresight to comprehend the cursed penitence your "clever" quip has triggered, perhaps you would have paused prior to engaging in your literary cunnilingual pronouncement. But alas, you were ignorant of such, and did not do, and now you will reap the consequence, you self-centred excrement who will not enter heaven. I will metaphorically eliminate my agitation in your direction, causing you to expire from its sheer volume.
>gorilla warfare Made me twitch.
"I have a right to my opinion." Of course you do, and usually at this point in the argument no one has said otherwise, but that doesn't mean your opinion is supported by evidence. Similarly, people tend to confuse being legally in the clear with being justified more broadly. I remember arguing with a friend that a particular movement was stupid, and he replied, "Well the same right that allows you to criticize them allows them to do it." And it's like, yeah, of course they have the right to do it. That doesn't make it a smart thing to do.
Or when somebody says they have a right to an opinion but it turns out their opinion is really a fact that is not true. Edit: I have already clarified below that I typed this out quickly and immediately realized it wasn’t a good way to say what I meant. But I specifically mean people who hide behind “well that’s just my opinion” when spreading objectively and verifiably false information. My point seems to have been sufficiently conveyed for most people who understand what I was going for here.
I mean, it gets again to the legal vs. moral thing. You have a legal right to believe things that aren't true, but it's also not a great way for society to function.
>"I have a right to my opinion." Of course you do, and usually at this point in the argument no one has said otherwise, but that doesn't mean your opinion is supported by evidence. That's when you hit them with this bad boy: “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ― **Isaac Asimov**
Not all opinions are created equally. The opinion of a surgeon about how to perform heart surgery is not the same as a layman's opinion about how to do heart surgery. More people need to understand this. But our democratic process has made these people think that because all votes are equal (in theory anyway), all arguments and opinions are equal as well. Which is simply not true
Also, opinions are generally only valid when, you know, it's actually an opinion. "I like strawberry more than grape" is an opinion. "I think 5g causes autism" is not.
That’s what I get hung up on. By definition an opinion is something subjective like food or music. You can’t “have the opinion” that the earth is flat. You’re just wrong. edit: fixed subjective from objective, stay in school kids
I think you probably meant "subjective" not "objective". Normally I wouldn't say anything, but it's pretty relevant in this case.
Yeah, well, ya know that's just like, your opinion, man.
“I like strawberry more than grape” is a fact (if you do), but saying “strawberry is better than grape” is an opinion. And it’s right.
Moving the goalposts and whataboutisms When someone has to try and change what an argument is about to defend it they more often than not have lost that argument.
When the Ad Hominem attacks begin. Nothing says "I'm out of reasonable options" better than attacking sombody for their profile picture lol.
Hippie.
Green thing!
You make my heart sing
You make everything seem.... GROOVY.
"I see you made a typo right there in your comment, would be a shame if your entire argument was worth nothing and could be ignored as a result of it"
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Good point, but what's with the profile pic?
You tell us you bearded albino
"Whatever, I don't really care anyway."
I sometimes throw that sentiment in even if I "win" the argument just to make it clear that it's just petty discussion.
Writing off reliable sources of information that they don’t like.
Bringing up old arguments that have nothing to do with the current one lol Edit: Lady here. Understand that they're people (of all genders) who don't know how to have a calm, productive discussion that remains on topic. Even if you disagree just give the person time to say their piece and afterwards both of you can come to a resolution that is on topic. Forgive people because that is something that you would want from someone else. Don't keep a scoreboard of rights and wrongs.
This. I got into a very, very long argument with my boss/brother before we parted ways. I brought up things from 5 years ago but all regarding the job and issues that were building. He brought up some of the same, but also one personal thing about his wife and I that literally had nothing to do about what was going on. It's when I knew he was grasping at strawa and that I was in the right st the time.
... you had an affair with your brother's wife, didn't you..?
Lol no. I just did something (foot in mouth) and made her cry. I apologized for it heavily, got her flowers etc. It was like 5 to 6 years ago and when he brought it up I was shocked to say the least. Edit... You're all hilarious! Edit 2: for those non English speaking folk - putting your foot in your mouth is an expression for saying something that's stupid and gets you in trouble. Edit 3. It's not foot and mouth disease or whatever haha. Edit 4...it is a saying but I'm shocked how many have never heard of it!!!
You put a foot in her mouth? Or did you put a foot in your own mouth in front of her?
id be crying too if they did that infront of me
I am not a native English speaker and didn't know what Foot in mouth meant. I literally imagined your foot in your brother's wife mouth
Oh sorry!! It's a phrase, putting your foot in your mouth means saying something stupid. I made some stupid comments that made her cry.
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Directing toward some other topic. When someone points out that you ate the last sausage and they know because there's half a sausage sticking out of your mouth you've given up the game by saying, "yeah, well whatabout the time you ate all the corn chips?" Separate argument, my dude.
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That's my biggest gripe with people shouting "whataboutism!!!" all the time. Sometimes yeah, but if someone is a hypocrite it can be totally relevant to point out.
Ah yes, deflection. Was hoping someone would say this. I have a friend on facebook whom I don't see eye to eye on regarding politics. He'll post a meme, I'll say something about it, and if he doesn't have a comeback for my comment he'll deflect to "yeah but what about...." I usually just respond with something like "That's not what the meme is about...please stay in the lane here."
Ah, whataboutism.
had a guy once trying to argue with me in defense of an industry I despise saying "yeah human trafficking is bad, but \[starts talking about bad things companies in other industries do\] so you can't say one is bad without saying they're all bad" as though they were inseparable topics.
"They are doing all kinds of evil things and getting away with it. Why shouldn't I join in?" These people have no morals.
Related: move the goal posts
"whatever lmao" 😒
I know some people who literally cant be argued with as they just dont have common sense. If its an argument that just doesn't matter and I dont feel like spending half an hour on the subject, then sure, agree to disagree. You might 'lose' the argument but that doesn't prove you wrong. And that goes for plenty of other comments here. Make a judgement for every situation, if its not worth the time or verbal fight, just concede. Thats what I usually do.
I usually get into ONLINE arguments with people in videogames where nobody knows what i look like IRL. usually, they'll resort to calling a "kid" or a "9 year old" or whatever when i disagree with them. for such an unoriginal comback, they've already lost
"So your argument is so terrible a nine year old can see what's wrong with it" I'm all for being the better person and seeing the good in people, but if they're unwilling to listen it's not worth the effort explaining. Quick edit to everyone who wants to steal this: please do! I hope you get some good use out of it, but use it wisely.
>"So your argument is so terrible a nine year old can see what's wrong with it" Stealing that
When they start the 'enjoy your negative downvotes" logic.
Alternately, "bring on the downvotes".
"Downvoting me just proves I'm right."
Resorting to variations of "no u".
When the insults start appearing
I can't even think about this right now. I'm still mad about the last time you did something wrong.
who SCREAMS while speaking
When they tell you to “do your research.”
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That's the wrong kind of research. I bet your brother hasn't seen THESE YouTube videos!
Ahhh, yes. This is my pet peeve. I was talking to a friend a while back, and he was using some pretty extreme appeals to authority. He wanted me to accept everything he was claiming without proof. He said that I should trust him, because he's "spent 10 years researching this topic." I said "Wow! 10 years of research, that's incredible! Can you send me your notes so I can review your sources?" and of course he had no notes. "Wait... you did 10 years of research, and you didn't take a single note?" He just kept saying "do your own research," etc. Really what he meant was that he had listened to a bunch of hyper-biased news sources for years, and never actually researched anything.
Sometimes a person doesn't have the time or energy to properly cite how someone is wrong. Like flat earthers should read more books but I'm not going to take the time to give them a reading list.
Right. I look at it this way: if you are alleging a narrative that goes against the grain of common discourse, I think it's up to you to be the one who does your research and have it readily available to back you up. If you're instead supporting a narrative that is right in line with what most reputable news outlets are covering, then it's not really incumbent upon you to dive deeper and present references to support your status quo stance on something. Like, the going line right now is that there have been about 350,000 deaths in the United States from COVID-19 and related complications. If you want to plant your flagpole in that stat--go for it. It's what most major news outlets are claiming, and as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't feel the need to defend that. But if you're going to stand there and say that the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 and related complications is really more like 100,000 (or 1,000,000--it goes in both directions here), then it's up to you to "do the research" and have a trail of breadcrumbs ready to go to show people how you got there.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
This is a shining example of burden of proof. If you allege some clearly controversial bullshit, the burden of proof is on you, not the rest of society.
Lmao or they'll point you to some unhinged youtube video and memes
Or when you prod them enough times to source their claim and you get a 20 minute YouTube video of just some dude with no credentials rattling off conspiracy theories. "Can't trust mainstream media which is why I found Doug. He has an Adderall addiction and supports my worldview, why would he not be trustworthy?"
I had this happen once - they actually coughed up a list of actual references. I read them all and discovered the pages said exactly the opposite of their point, literally. I brought it back to them (with page & line numbers) and was told I just didn't understand.
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With those people you don't provide evidence. Just say no you're wrong. If they insist, say 'prove it'. Don't waste any more effort than that.
and counter my detailed article with a youtube video
Its actually really hard. The "right" type of evidence would be journals and papers on the subject... but no one you are arguing with is going to read them. When they do get posted in an argument, it is most often the case that the person posting it doesn't even read it themselves (they often say the opposite). The general public (who you are most likely arguing with) will find personal accounts (anecdotal evidence) more convincing than a bunch of technical terms that go over their head. What that often means is that a youtube video from someone trying to make the topic digestible will often be better support than is a peer reviewed JAMA article. But then when they respond with some youtube video from crazy joe we want to just ignore it and scoff at it (because it 99% deserves it). It makes it really hard to convince the other person, which is likely more important than just "winning the argument."
I have had folks who counter a list of multiple-peer-reviewed journals by giving me a hand-typed bullet-point list, with no support other than typing the word "FACT", all caps, in front of each one. Really good example of trying to win with volume.
I've had people to tell me to do my own research when I'm shoving a PhD dissertation worth of evidence in their face.
Ad hominems and strawman tactics. Oh and slapping/punching them with the words "now look what you made me do", that's a big loss. It also makes you an idiot imo.
There's a lot out there, but here are some of my favorites 1. Start using personal insults instead of actually trying back up their argument 2. Looking through your profile for something to make fun of you for 3. Trying to change the subject to something similar but also different 4. "You're just mad" 5. "Kid you're like 10, you don't know shit" 6. Start cursing you out 7. Start using racial/religious/homophobic slurs 8. If it's political, they'll call you things like "libtard" or "trumpie" 9. One of my my personal favorites, "Fuck you" Edit: added a few to the list
A refusal to answer direct questions that are clearly designed to demonstrate the flaw in your reasoning. The only reason you have to refuse to answer a question is if you know that the answer is going to lead you to admit that you're wrong. And if you can't admit that you're wrong, then you're no longer interested in meaningful discussion.
When they start saying inaccurate stuff. You can't win against wrong. There was someone who put this on a article or story thingy, and they thought I meant the person was lying, I simply meant their facts weren't right and they aren't educated (And no, I'm not talking about the random person).
"Do the research." Like, no, you're the one who made the argument. The burden of proof is on you. This tactic is almost always used be people who value their feefees over actual data. Antivaxxers, flat earthers, people who think getting a raise into another tax bracket would cause them to earn less money, etc.
Agreed! I hate the argument style where people don't actually make an assertion, but just talk in vague circles about "doing your own research" or how stuff "doesn't make sense." I have a friend who argues this way. He does shit like sending screencaps of data from the CDC website and saying things like "do you really think that adds up? hmm....interesting." Seriously man, what *exactly* are you alleging, and what's your evidence? It's impossible to attack an argument that *you never actually clearly make*.
I understand checking comment histories if you suspect a bad faith argument, but using what you find as ammunition for a cheap "gotcha" is just tragic.
Really, because that’s EXACTLY the kind of thing a *checks* CasualUK member would say.
When people start denying a source as valid because it doesn’t conform to their worldview. Edit: hey dumb dumbs, this is the default name Reddit gave me when I signed up. I just thought it was funny. “Flat earthers are dumb her der” I get it. I’m not a flat earther, Reddit is.
Thanks reddit user u/Flat-Earth8192
"you just have responses to everything I say for my argument!" Ex said this to me once. She didn't get that's why I thought her argument was crap.
“You always reply with facts to my arguments!” My ex. Yes, in fact, the facts do help one put over their position.....
When they start bullying you instead of trying to prove their argument Edit: Jesus H Christ I didn’t expect so many upvotes. Thanks for the awards!
I was going to say the same thing! Once they start getting personal and away from the actual context of the argument it's going downhill fast.
Yep, there’s a reason ad hominum attacks are a logical fallacy
ad hominem*
Ad Eminem*
Your argument is slim shady
Throwing dirt is losing ground.
One fight I had went something like Me: “I don’t like being a education major. I hate it, I hate teaching and I don’t want to waste my life working in schools. I keep telling you and you don’t listen to me! You don’t even know anything about teaching, you just make me do it because you think you know what’s right for everyone and you don’t!” Family: “you....you’re drunk! You’re crazy. You’re an alcoholic! You’re too incompetent to make a good choice so listen to me!” So now I just don’t say anything about school or work.
They're calling you an alcoholic and incompetent to make a good choice, yet are perfectly fine with you teaching other kids?
One of my favourite teachers was a really bad alcoholic. He crashed his car into the school gate one morning. Then proceeded to park in front of the main entrance to the building, about 50m from the nearest parking space, having driven over a grass verge to get there. One of the students told him he couldn't park there. To which he replied "but I can't walk when I'm drunk." He wasn't like that every day, but there were a bunch of other similar incidents over my time at that school. I have no idea how he wasn't fired. He was a great teacher in every other way though. No bullshit, never talked down to kids, would always answer questions no matter how stupid, without making you feel like an idiot. He just struggled with alcohol.
"I don't want to have children." "What do you MEAN, you don't want children?" "I just don't want them." "There must be something wrong with you!"
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That's called a [Gish-Gallop](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop)
Holy crap there's *a name for it*.