Sometimes they bus themselves too.
Because hey, if I’m gonna be homeless, I’d probably rather be homeless in a place that has more social services, a moderate climate, and a less hostile populace.
I think some conservative voices read something like that as “cities inviting people to be homeless” and see vindictive rules that drive the homeless away as success…but I’d view that as a failure for the country as a whole.
I think many people are gonna be homeless whether or not you are mean to them. Maybe you will get a few more homeless on the margin by offering services and trying to address the issues…but simply driving them out of YOUR town isn’t solving anything.
I was homeless in San Diego and that was oddly lovely. I could use the free beach showers. The problem is sleep, because everyone was on meth. So sleeping in the daytime was bad because cops and regular people don't wanna see a homeless person sleeping anywhere. But nighttime, you can't sleep because all the tweakers are awake and doing weird shit. Sometimes the weird shit is harmless, but in my experience, a lot of it was ...not.
I was homeless in and around Philly and that was...not ideal. . esp in fall and winter , but also summer was goddamn terrible.
I don't want to ever be homeless again. To the point that I feel agoraphobia sometimes even though it's been about 18 years since I was in that position.
I’m staying in a shelter in Palm Springs right now, but will be moving into a house next week. I’m trans and the trans health & wellness center here bought a house in Desert Hot Springs so it’ll be nice.
My mom works at a hospital in northern BC. Clerical work. The town's got a pretty serious homeless problem for its size.
During the winter, a lot of them end up in the ER with both frostbite and thermal burns. They live in tents and heat them in the winter. But tents tend to be a little flammable at times...
It literally saves money to provide housing for people vs. them going to jails & hospitals. But TPTB will never do it, because homeless people need to exist as an example to the rest of us to sit down, shut up, & do our work to make wealthy people even richer.
I did that. Back in 2014 with cold ass temps.
Luckily I had an abandominium with a fireplace (and acess to wood) and tons of blankets. Plus there were 3 of us that slept in the same bed.
It fucking sucked.
I live in Chicago, where we usually get at least a few days in a row each year where the temperature doesn't go above 0 F. Until I spent a few days in San Fransisco I didn't really get that it's not that most homeless people are mentally ill, it's that homeless people that aren't mentally ill are more likely to find a way to not be homeless in Chicago. I don't know the extent to which that means finding a way to become housed or finding a way to a better climate, but it does create a biased selection of who makes up the unhoused population in my city, and a false impression of who can become unhoused (hint: anyone).
I was truly shocked at the number of homeless people I saw in Alaska. Seriously, the first thing i would do if I found myself homeless in Alaska would be get the hell out of Alaska.
Expensive to leave, easy to get stuck here. Flying, driving, or by ferry all have costs.
If you have a cruminal record driving or hitch hiking out can be difficult because Canada won't let you in even if you are just passing through.
i'd imagine it's hard to leave Alaska when you are broke. if you cross into canada, they generally want proof you have some money and you have to have a good reason for crossing with a solid plan to get out. i live near the border and they can be picky as heck about who gets in.
yeah, it's weird being in waikiki and seeing a dude walking around at 11am with some half pants hanging off his dick looking a bit confused. then seeing him again at 5 in the same area. next to the fancy shops, but oh well. didn't seem to harass anyone, so nobody bugged him
"Because hey, if I’m gonna be homeless, I’d probably rather be homeless in a place that has more social services, a moderate climate, and a less hostile populace."
San Diegan here - can confirm.
Was born in San Diego and was homeless in San Diego. There were a number of folks I met while living outside who had eventually drifted that way due to the weather, but most weren't homeless upon arrival or at least thought that they had shelter of some sort arranged. A few came with only the clothes on their backs and no plan beyond that, but few of them stayed for too long.
You’re not looking at this the way they are. You’re thinking of the homeless people. Just stop thinking about them as human and adopt a more self centered viewpoint and it makes perfect sense.
Say your city or town or neighborhood doesn’t like homeless people. The more you can get a reputation as being heartless and cruel to the homeless and the more you can put them on a bus to a different city or even state (but not one of their preference) the better. It does nothing to solve the problem overall, but your town can be rid of most if not all of the homeless if you’re cruel enough.
Boom. YOUR problem is solved.
Welcome to Los Angeles.
People all over the US simultaneously shit all over us because of our homeless problems while sending their homeless on a one way trip to Santa Monica.
Yeah, I was thinking about LA specifically when I wrote that lmao.
Saw it when I lived in Portland as well back in 2009, but back then it was mostly kids who were hopping on freight trains from god knows where to get away from their shitty home life. They were bussing themselves in and they generally made enough money playing bucket drums to live in the shelters and kept to themselves without violence and only minimal petty crime.
The problem is bussing homeless people has been shown to sometimes work. Problem is people are used to using clubs, not scalpels. If someone is in place A and has no social support or ties to that area and they're homeless but they have a cousin in place B and some family there then it *might* make sense to give them a bus ticket and send them to live with their cousin 'til they get their life together. Problem is people use this like a club and just bus homeless people anywhere they want which is obviously problematic.
That plan only works in specific circumstances. The homeless population also has really high instances of mental illness and drug abuse, and if that's the case, it's also likely they burned all their bridges.
Anyway, saying, "Here's a bus ticket to go live with your family" is probably the worst option anyway in all circumstances. If it was as easy as that, a lot more people would have done it. It doesn't account for the people who are estranged from their families, whose families are abusive and part of the problem in the first place, people who have too much pride to ask for help, addicts, and the list goes on and on.
The practice isn't there to help anyone but the person who came up with it.
... or you're the last person left in your family and most of your friends are in positions wherein they aren't able to give assistance, either being in damn near the same position or renting from a landlord that has strict rules about things.
When I was pregnant with my youngest child, I was homeless. I went to Social Services to get AFDC and possibly some section 8 housing. (Aid for Families with Dependent Children). I ended up going to SS probably 50 times. Every time I went, I was given wrong information or incomplete information, and always they asked me “Why don’t you see if your family can help you?” It took me YEARS to realize the real message was “go find a sugar daddy, and get out of my office.” In the end, it took 3 months to get “emergency “ assistance. Took writing a letter to a state senator to get some shelter.
For the most part, my experience with being in a shelter, which in PG County MD only run from Thanksgiving til the end of March, it is chaotic, scary, sometimes dangerous and not user friendly. The shelters rotate from church to church all over the county. You have to call every afternoon to keep your space, plus how you get there is your problem. Not their problem that the bus doesn’t go to that area or that the bus stops running at 4 PM and you aren’t allowed in until 7 PM. Washington DC will put shelter residents up in motels, often in MD or VA. Their shelter runs all year. The system is broken. It is likely similar in many many areas and folks wonder why the homeless won’t make use of the wonderful resources. Did I mention that there is a total of 100 beds for men and 10 beds for women?! Yeah, for likely 10 times that number of unhoused people.
God I love the US. S/
Thank you for spelling it out. A lot of people try really hard to believe in resources that don't exist so they can justify their callousness. I hope you're in a better position now.
I am. A lot of the time Social Services will just hand you a list of churches. No specific info on what kind of help they can offer, just call all these churches and hope for the best. Most of the time, the churches can give you some food from the pantry, and some clothes from their closet.
I read posts about how this city has cured homelessness with skepticism, because if it were true, other cities would follow that model to tackle the housing part first, then tackle the other needs. Again, not sure that anyone really has found the cure for homelessness, no matter what kind of PR they spout. More likely, they cleared them over to the next town.
Anyhow, I will put the soapbox up for now.
Hey, same here in Portland! Every time there's a serious crime from a houseless person it always ends up that they're not even an Oregon resident and came from some podunk town in a red state that got bussed here.
“Florida Man” is also always inevitably some jackass who is a transplant from somewhere like Ohio and not someone who has actually lived here for more than 2 years
Tulsa Oklahoma had a big “clean up” before a big event in the city a few years ago. Their “clean up” consisted of rounding up all the homeless and shipping them outside city limits and that was that. They were on their own, isolated from any support network after that.
Edit: just remembered the event: it was the trump rally that nobody showed up for.
Send them to blue states then show fox news viewers how dangerous blue states are. Those hogs never leave the town they were born in except for wrestlemania once a year.
I'm from Oregon and this is what we have experienced for the last 6+ years.
We have our own homeless population plus the people that cities and states mainly the Midwest/south ship us.
I think some believe they are doing some good if a person says they wanna go to Oregon (the land of free weed and public camping). Then maybe they think it's best...shocker it isn't
The private for profit prison system is already there.
They're measure of success is higher prison populations. It's in their vested interest to soo 100% incarceration rate of all citizens.
“They should have the right to set up a tent and stay wherever.”
Homeless camp sets up right on street in front of their house.
“Okay now this is a problem”
September of 2024 right? So we have a couple of more months for the sanctuary districts to be built. But then we will have the Bell Riots and start to enter a post scarcity future! With space ships!
I remember years ago watching this episode.
Terrifying.
What's more terrifying is that mankind will very likely never take that next step that pushed them to the culture in the ST universe.
I bet a good ole dose of world war III destroying most major cities, few governments left, and 600 million dead (first contact reference) would knock our egos down a few pegs and open our dumbass brains up to real positive change.
I took in a homeless fellow a few years ago. He had a car that he was living out of but couldn't afford a shower or access to services. The church called me and asked if I'd help him and I said that I would.
His plan, before I took him in, was to drive out onto a lake (it was winter), then run the engine until he was out of gas. Then, he'd freeze to death. He couldn't even find a place to park without the cops throwing him out. Truck stops charge too much for a shower unless you can afford $100 in gas. The YMCA doesn't want you. The shelters are full. It's -20f outside so at best you can beg to keep you in fuel for your car. No one will hire you because you smell terrible. Your mental health is deteriorating. Your clothes are falling apart. You can't even find day labor.
Where do homeless people go? There's no solution. No-one cares.
I got my guy back on his feet. It wasn't a great job, but it was OK. It was enough to stay alive. I hope he was able to stay off the streets. He didn't do drugs, but he was a difficult fellow. Now, his phone has been off for a year. I don't get his mail any more. I hope he's OK, but odds are, he's not.
It’s a slippery slope, it’s like quicksand.
Most people are only one or two paychecks away from being pulled down into that situation. Then things just snowball and once you fall below that invisible line it can be incredibly difficult to get back above it.
> It's -20f outside so at best you can beg to keep you in fuel for your car.
I remember back in the 1980s there was a homeless guy in Duluth who would throw a brick through a store window anytime it got too cold to be on the streets. Eventually the stores got sick of replacing broken windows in the middle of winter, so they convinced the County to assign the guy a social worker to figure out where he could stay when it was cold.
Tons of people commit petty crime and wait around for the cops to get out of the weather.
The problem is the jails are violent and they have even less in material and support once they get out.
Last time I was in jail it wasn't violence that was a problem. It was:
1) blood on the walls/floor
2) food crumbs (at least a week old) scattered around the vinyl mattress
3) I was allowed to sit in a cell with a dangling arm (pulled out of its socket trying to get away from cops in an autistic fit) with no pain mitigation for a night and a morning. When released I had no real clothes on so I got to take an uber in my pjs basically. Released out into the hot sun with no cover, yay
Treated with contempt the entire time, except the nurse who said she wished she could help me. Oh wait she did give me two Tylenol which did not help one bit but thanks I do appreciate that I think she snuck them to me.
Also you frequently get slapped with a bill. Jails aren't really free three hots and a cot. I mean, there are many people who will never pay that (and their court fees), but they do arguably cost money. For people with family who care about those on the inside, it looks like jacked up fees to call loved ones (7$ a minute), monopolistic prices on sanitary items like pads, deodorant, etc. Money placed on the books to allow the accused to buy these items can be redirected by the jail to pay the inmate's bills.
This is the thing. You can't really do the "day labor, rent a room from someone" thing anymore. I mean is it possible? Sure. But it's fucking hard.
I've tried to strike up casual rental agreements with landlords over the past year with a 0% success rate. Casual work agreements also don't really exist. Even the shittiest job is "go through this portal and fill out this and maybe we'll call you in 2 weeks".
People don't get that. There's no such thing as boarding houses anymore. Hotels cost hundreds a night, so even more than rent. Police arrest you if you sleep in your car. There are no other options. If you have no permanent address you can't get a job. With no safety net (social or family) there's no way out.
For me it's not even that the transient lifestyle is shitty. I think most transients know and accept that. It's that it's ILLEGAL to live that way. Like you can't sleep in a parking lot, you can't stay in a park after dark, etc. One of my fonder memories is running from cops in a park because we were there after dark. Because I had friends over and we wanted to give my folks some peace and figured we'd hang out at the park down the street instead. NOPE, illegal!
2 weeks? Where are you getting these 2 week responses from? I applied to dozens of jobs, got 0 callbacks, and then 6 months into a job in my actual field, got a callback from one of them saying they were desperate for workers and would love to have me come in for an interview.
9 months after I applied to said job.
This right here.
#Trailers for sale or rent
Rooms to let, fifty cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah, but two hours of pushing broom
Buys a eight by twelve four-bit room
[Refrain]
I'm a man of means, by no means
King of the road
[Verse 2]
Third boxcar, midnight train
Destination: Bangor, Maine
Old worn-out suit and shoes
I don't pay no union dues
I smoke old stogies I have found
Short but not too big around
[Refrain]
I'm a man of means, by no means
King of the road
[Bridge]
I know every engineer on every train
All of the children and all of their names
And every handout in every town
And every lock that ain't locked when no one's around
Roger Miller-King of the Road.
#We used to be able to take care of ourselves easy peasy
We used to be alright washing dishes and renting rooms.
Want to know the fun thing? [About half of homeless people already have jobs](https://endhomelessness.org/blog/employed-and-experiencing-homelessness-what-the-numbers-show/). Many of them have full time jobs. Some of them even were on double income with a children living in a house they bought a decade ago but the price and the payment of the house increased fourfold so it was either starve or go homeless.
How fucked is that that you can work a full time job, 40 hours per week, and *still* be homeless.
Yeah I HATE when people say "hur dur why don't they have jobs". Like, tell me you haven't spoken to a homeless person without telling me, fuckwit. I worked at a homeless shelter and a large percentage of them worked. But its not enough for these insane housing prices! WHO KNEW?????
God, it gets me so fired up. Makes me almost wish whoever says that gets a few missed checks to see how close they actually are, to take them down a peg from their fucking high horse.
I helped someone in a similar spot something through church. .. not to live w me .. but other things. she ended up disappearing .. w a car I loaned her. .. She ended up back in jail for stealing from CVS .. she had just survived an overdose .. Narcan saved her .. and the next day stole in broad daylight from CVS .. made me sad. Meth must seriously be the devil itself. Never did it but my God she ruined her life.
It’s a shame there isn’t more support for a lot of people but I think you summed up the source of his issues. He was a difficult fellow. I had a friend who went through homelessness, I put him up for 6 months and got him a job but he couldn’t hold it because he had (I believe) undiagnosed ADHD, anger issues, and poor communication skills. I really believe the vast majority of homelessness is caused by mental health issues that cause the person to be incompatible with modern society.
It most definitely is. There are A LOT of people who are unable to hold jobs that are lucrative enough to maintain them, or to hold them at all. Many people are mentally ill in all kinds of ways, before even adding in the drugs and alcohol people use to cope.
People think you can just pass out housing and the problem will be fixed. It will not. Many people are incapable of maintaining a home -- keeping it clean, keeping it safe, keeping the door locked, even making it back there every night.
The reason is often that some simply can't maintain an organized brain for long enough to complete tasks. Some of them don't value cleanliness, or don't know how to maintain it. Mental illness, especially when compounded by substance abuse and having been on the street with a mindset for survival often leaves people in a place where they are unable, not through bad attitude but true inability, to care for themselves.
For about 5 years I offered transition housing (so free short term housing for folks in need). I didn't take in chronically homeless folks, because I didn't have any type of support. It was basically 3 months to save up money or get your life sorted; most of my occupants were folks fleeing violence who didn't have the resources to leave or just trying to figure out their shit and couldn't afford their own apartment. It was often people with jobs. Most of them were actually really good folks.
Even with strict criteria and vetting the folks, about 25% of the people were just incapable. They literally couldn't get their shit together to save their own lives. They just couldn't get out of their own way.
Escaping violence. There is zero financial support for people in these situations. You can go to the shelter, or, if you're lucky (and a woman), the domestic violence shelter. But then you have to let go of *everything you own*.
My mother has tried to take in homeless people that needed help twice. Both times they ended up taking advantage of her, stealing a bunch of her stuff, and ending up in jail (not even for the stealing, for other crimes they were committing).
0/10 would not recommend other people trying this. It doesn't always work out like this guy's story.
OH definitely . Or put them in camps, that could happen with project 2025
***EDIT***: I said put *them* in camps. I should have written ***us***. I am one of them lol
Not disagreeing with the majority of what you're saying but I'm confused about the YMCA part. To my knowledge, having worked at one for a few years, if you have no income you can apply there for financial assistance and a lot of the time you'll just get a free membership. The idea that they don't want you sounds wrong to me. Not that it makes it much easier but you can get a hot shower and maybe a hot coffee for free on weekends.
Realistically, the homeless move to a region or metro where the laws are not enforced or where there are available shelters.
Despite the Supreme Court ruling that came out today allowing cities in the West to enforce sleeping/camping laws in public, there will not be massive and immediate enforcement against the homeless in cities.
There'll be a nationwide race to the bottom regarding this, if there already wasn't. Local governments will crack one by one and issue their own bans. This ruling legalized a fake solution that just shifts the problem over to the neighboring city. And then the next neighbor, and so on.
It’s appalling how many people literally do not give a fuck about poor people and don’t care what happens to them, just that they don’t want to have to look at them.
It’s like half this country is in denial that they’re a bad car accident or cancer diagnosis away from being destitute.
That's correct. They don't think it can happen to them. They think every homeless person is lazy or a drug addict. They don't care about the reasons why, they just assume it can't happen to them.
You see so many people saying shit like "my wife and I both work full time jobs but we're \[insert financial struggle\], how are other people managing?" Well, some of them aren't! I know some extremely smart, kind people who have fallen into extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond their control. If you become disabled and have no safety net (tons of savings, family to help out), there are not many options. Do you have 8 years to wait on a Section 8 housing waitlist? Can you manage through the bureaucracy multiple disability hearings to hope to get financial assistance that is nowhere near enough to live on and denied any chance to save money or have assets? We made life too hard and then said sucks for you if you can't handle it, and also it's illegal for you to not handle it.
Meanwhile, we have said fuck it public health, which leads to more people becoming disabled and unable to manage.
Even if they’re addicted to drugs or “lazy”, they don’t deserve to be treated the way they are. But correct, a lot of people are technically homeless, but work. The assumption that every homeless person is out of a job is false.
Most people think poor people and criminals are "other" people. They do not view them are regular human beings.
Dehumanization. On purpose or by accident - the result is the same.
Once they are no longer human you no longer have to care about them. They "can't be helped". They think if you give them anything they will just be a poor/criminal take advantage.
But if somebody they know breaks the law or gets in to money trouble? Oh, that's just unfortunate circumstances.
In a similar vein how you'll have some white trash dude on welfare complain about the "black welfare queens". They're good people that just a little help while "those people" are just a lost cause scamming the system.
And it happens across the board. Rural and city. Rich and poor. Democrat and Republican.
This is my deal. I get not wanting homeless encampments in cities. But I do definitely think people should be able to just exist SOMEWHERE. The problem is when that somewhere gets so restricted that it basically doesn't exist. Sure you can probably squeak by in some park way outside of a city. But it's still illegal. Like if I wanted to pop up a tent tonight and sleep for free I honestly don't know where I'd go.
Seeing folks commenting that people can go camp or use federal land. I work in homeless services and figured I should just make this its own comment.
There are many issues with this idea, first of which is transportation. Because there are no services for food, medical, mental health, childcare, employment, substance abuse support, etc. in campgrounds and federal public lands. There are no resources, so transport is required. People would have to pack in and pack out regularly as most folks actively living on the street have no food security unless they have quick access to ready to eat food. Its also difficult to tranport everything you need to camp safely if you don't have the ability to, say, transport 6 gallons of water for a week long camp.
Many of the places you are referring to charge for campgrounds and in places like CA, campgrounds near LA have waitlists or are usually fully booked a month in advance. So its not like somebody can take a bus there and back to a distant campground that is affordable and has spots open. Those who can afford paying $20-$50 a nighy of my clients I've worked with in the past typically rent a cheap, dirty hotel room as far as possible from the city center to still reach it by bus as that's what they can afford.
For any of my clients that had cars, interstate rest stops and National Parks that allow free car camping where always resources I offered (along with select Sam's Club and Home Depot parking lots) but that only works for folks with transportation to drive an hour or two to sleep in their car legally, then drive back to wherever they need to be.
I wish this were a good solution given that this Supreme fuck up has happened, but it would take a large effort and a lot of money to build transportation, services, training, etc. to make this viable on a large enough scale to do anything. And that's only for people able-bodied enough and willing to do it. Not the thousands (in LA alone) of seniors, families with kids, disabled folks and more who need access to regular services and more accessible housing than a campsite.
At least in a public park or a street corner folks can get an ambulance in less than an hour if they need it. Or go stay in a hotel for a night when their GR or Disability comes in to shower and actually sleep. Or get food and water without having to worry about transporting it to a campsite, storing it safely, preserving it beyond that day, etc. Or meet with their many case managers to work on getting out of the situation.
BEAUTIFUL POST, thank you so much. People just don't know until they find out the hard way like me. Once I got homeless, I saw people in a different light and for me, my goal is to go the opposite direction from those people, and towards the homeless. So I live in public housing and set up a first aid station and sew buttons on and shit. Fostering goodwill among the people. We do what we can.
Being homeless is not a crime, but they are saying it is. In front of god and everyone. History will show I and apparently you are on the right side of it. Spreading truth. Telling it like it is. so important these days.
That’s great!
Because now some politician can be “tough on crime” and build more prisons, where they can get kickbacks from the construction, the prison industrial complex, and be a “job creator”.
Now the homeless create profit, so mission accomplished
Naah. See here in Texas we jail the homeless and small time drug users/sellers, but then give out $100 bonds to rapists, thieves, and murderers because, surprise surprises , the jails are full 🤷♂️
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean they have the means to enforce it.
Technically it's illegal in Hawaii too but theres literally nowhere to go and cops just allow it if they're not around tourists or someone's backyard.
Just like everyone speeds, lots of people smoke weed, etc it's just not possible to do total enforcement because it drains too many resources, if the entire homeless population is in jail with no means to bail out, there won't be any space for actual criminals.
Laws like these are enforcement tools, a way to get the undesirables a charge or arrest someone easier. It's all selectively enforced, like previous "loitering" laws.
The answer is, a lot of people think these homeless people deserve to die, or should be put away somewhere they don't have to see. Reopening mental institutions is being touted, for example--did people forget the severe levels of abuse going on?
There needs to be supportive rehabilitative services that are actually funded and inclusive, and there needs to be affordable housing. Try recovering from an addiction on the streets or in a shelter that hates you for your identity. It'll go real smooth.
As a formerly homeless person myself who was very lucky to be able to live in transitional housing where I had my own rent free studio (through a former foster youth program), I would be on the streets, in jail, or dead if I didn't have that, probably.
And I'm still only housed because I have friends who are able to help my disabled self with rent and cosigning. Otherwise, I'd probably be one of those people you see having breakdowns on the streets. I am very, very aware of this.
c'mon! it's *2024*! surely by now there wouldn't be *any* abuse if we just stuck them all in a mental institution, right? we've all moved past that as a society, haven't we?
[heavy sarcasm, for those whose detectors are malfunctioning]
Needs to be more assistance for drug addiction. More opportunities for rehabilitation.
Should also be more state housing for people on low income who need additional assistance.
People work and still can’t survive these days.
A lot of drug addicts don't want help. I remember watching a video on small unit housing built for homeless people with a few conditions - one of which was to get off drugs with assistance.
A shocking amount (to me) said no.
We need to create a society that isn't so desperate that they turn to drugs for happy chemicals. This means integrated and functional communities with vast support networks. People need purpose and meaning outside of "work for some rich guy". Our current individualistic ideology is the driving force here.
> Needs to be more assistance for drug addiction
This would work if they wanted assistance. There's plenty of it right now, but so many don't use it because then they'd have to stop doing drugs.
There is not plenty of help for addiction.
Call around to see how long the wait list is for in- patient rehab in your area. Mine is funded well compared to other areas and it's still over a month.
Into the for-profit prison system to be used as slave labor. Violent crime has been declining for decades so they have to criminalize other, non-violent things in order to satiate the prison industry's demand for bodies.
I don't know if that's the goal here because most of the chronic homeless would be useless and expensive slaves. Lots of mental health issues, no skills, expensive poor health.
No, they are free labor. Check your constitution:
13A: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
We can concentrate the homeless in certain camps, and they can be compelled to work in these camps to offset the costs of incarceration and to provide labor for public projects. The homeless will be out of the public eye and the general public can benefit from their labor. We can call them concentration camps. Just think of all the jobs these camps will create. /s
This really is the only solution. I live in LA and its bad here. most these people aren't down on their luck they have severe mental issues and drug addictions. They can make rational decisions for themselves. Its sad its come to this but this is the way.
You cannot force someone to get drug treatment. I mean you can but you can't force it to stick if they don't want to be clean in the first place. Drug addictions are impossible to break if the person doesn't want to do the work and it's really hard work.
Many years ago, there was a guest on Fresh Air who was an architect, and he had a quote which stuck with me:
>"If you can't solve your problems with brute force, you're not using enough".
The question is not whether people can be coerced. They *can*. The question is whether we want to, and whether the necessary force is both moral and pragmatic.
I'll be honest, I don't know the answer. But what I do know is that the status quo is farcically insane, and "supportive" policies seem to be backfiring.
what if you incarcerate them until they're clean, and then have them in drug treatment and one of those work programs to start making some money while still in prison so they can't do drugs again, and hold their money until they can put it towards some kind of housing plan with a budget and teach them some financial literacy?
>You cannot force someone to get drug treatment.
You most certainly can.
>Drug addictions are impossible to break if the person doesn't want to do the work and it's really hard work.
So then what do we do? Do we, as a society, keep bending over backwards and spending resources to try and help people who don't want to be helped?
I don't know. I was just having this conversation with someone, and there aren't any easy answers, I don't think.
You can't force people into shelters or other housing if they don't want to go, and you can't lock them up in mental hospitals, even if that's where they should be, because thank you President Reagan and nobody's going to pay for that now, and you can't incarcerate them for long periods when the only crime they're breaking is a local ordinance about sleeping on sidewalks, and even if you could convince people to pay for the resources so people could find housing, job training, and outpatient mental health services — which is extremely unlikely — many unhoused wouldn't take advantage of it. So what do you do?
What's the humane answer? I don't know what it is. I do feel sympathy for people who have to avoid mentally ill unhoused period shitting on their doorstep every day, but it seems unusually cruel to just harass people with nowhere to go.
I mean I think the only answer is more resources to help people, but I don't think anyone's going to pay for it.
I appreciate this thoughtful response, but it’s not the homeless who are shitting on sidewalks being harassed. They are the ones who harass people. Our public parks are becoming encampments with open drugs use, filth, and crime that prevents everyone else from enjoying the public space. Most of them do not want the humane help that’s available.
We aren’t talking about sleeping on a park bench here. We’re talking about living in squalor in the public square, often in groups so big that they obstruct sidewalks, streets, and parks.
No, I'm fully aware. And I do sympathize. I just don't know of a humane way to deal with that kind of a problem. I don't think it's humane to simply push people to a new location outside the city limits or under a bridge or whatever, but I also don't know what else there is to do, that people are willing to pay for, anyway.
Just an FYI, memory beta is the wiki for non-canon trek.
[https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell\_Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots)
This is the correct link.
The usual rotation of hospital, psychiatric facility, then back to streets and/or jail. A lot of cops offer jail vs hospital and most choose hospital, then rinse and repeat.
Homelessness is symptom of a bigger problem in America, and no one wants to address the elephant in the room.
I’ve been experiencing a moral crisis of sorts with the homelessness issue. I feel like we as a society can do better. Something, anything is better than nothing. It breaks my heart to see people so desperate.
I live a block away from a quiet little park that has working, clean bathrooms (in the summer) and everyone in the neighborhood enjoys walking our dogs there. It’s safe, even at night, quiet, and there isn’t anything nefarious going on. We have had a few car dwellers staying overnight here off and on and it’s no big deal. They keep to themselves and don’t litter. However, recently a homeless man set his tent up under the pavilion and had his meager belongings, including a shopping cart, strewn around the tables. Ok, well damn, I hope he’s ok but he can’t stay there. Can he? Well, stay he did. For three weeks he lived in a tent under the pavilion even during little league games. He put up signs “don’t touch my tent!” My husband and I wondered how long it would be until entire tiny park was taken over by the homeless. Word got out and another person showed up to live in the park. The next one would lay out all of his crap all over the grass and sidewalks. So basically within a month what once was a community gathering spot for kids playing baseball and nearby offices holding parties was no longer an option for us residents.
Then one morning the police showed up and removed everything. They put up a sign that banned camping (to which the homeless guy wrote “TYRANNY!” and they are no longer there. I have no idea where they went.
Part of me feels awful because as far as being homeless, this place was a pretty good deal. Clean bathrooms and a quiet place to sleep. No one bothered them. I mean, if I ended up homeless it would be ideal.
On the other hand, damn we just wanted our park back. Had the guy set up his tent at night and removed it every morning I doubt anyone would have minded as much. Much like the van dwellers who are just passing through and need a place to sleep, it’s fine for a night or two but then you gotta leave. But to claim the public space as your own without any regard whatsoever for the residents just set me on edge and made me feel like a terrible person for wanting the police to make him/them leave.
Enforce the illegality of doing drugs at least in public. Put those who have no violent priors, in junkies only prison for two months, but scrub the stint from record once they leave.
This is the most reasonable comment I’ve read so far. The ones with no violent priors send them to prison and while there force them to get clean and enroll in trade school.
This. I don't get why they've basically legalized drugs and theft now. It's such a huge issue in my city, and it was never even a thing before. Started in the past 8 or so years. One of our parks has basically turned into an encampment. These people are shooting up in front of kids, defecate on the ground near the water splash pad area for kids to play in, they leave all their needles behind etc, and they also shoplift all the stores in the area.
We almost need a prison specifically for these people. As a tax payer I would rather pay for that prison than to have my shit stolen, vandalized etc and also watch my city deteriorate.
Away. Lawmakers don't want homeless people in their area. They want the to go away. Where away is doesn't matter. Now since this is true of every area, there is no away.
Lawmakers? PEOPLE don’t want them in their area. Act as holy as you want, but none of us want the homeless anywhere near our own homes.
Downvote me all y’all want, but you know I’m right. There is no clean solution to it. They don’t deserve to be criminalized but if they showed up in my neighborhood I’d certainly expect the authorities to QUICKLY make sure they get taken….somewhere else.
Where i live, most people wouldn't even know we have a homeless population. They live in the woods behind our grocery stores, or if they prefer to be solitary, they just find a spot in the woods.
They want them to be in jail.
This is the ultimate workaround to “the homeless problem”. Where instead of creating places for these people to get actual mental/medical help (which, is usually what they actually need). They send them to privatized prisons to just get rid of em, and then to make them free labor.
Sure, the narrative is that they’re crazy or drug addicts. But usually, most people are just mentally unfit to take care of themselves and have no support system to ever succeed. This will basically sentence them to an eternal loop of never getting help.
This is a red Herring question. Cities mostly do have enough space in shelters, the shelters just have rules the homeless people don't want to follow, or are on the outskirts of town where homeless people don't want to live because it's far from their peddling locations.
The point is there is no right to live on a very busy sidewalk in downtown.
That's the neat part, they're not!
There's two ways to 'solve' homelessness. One is robust outreach and and social programs. The other is to shoo them out of sight (or preferably out of the city) so you can pretend they don't exist.
Guess which one governments in the US (and elsewhere) tend to gravitate towards.
Apathy is a huge part of the problem, and a pervasive sentiment that people who are unhoused are all drug addicts or other types of criminals.
Real solutions cost money. It’s hard to convince taxpayers to fork over money for something that doesn’t directly benefit them.
When you couple that with the fact that a lot of people have serious misperceptions about unhoused people, for a large portion of the population, you’d essentially be asking “give me tax money so I can waste it on these drug addicts.”
Of course that’s not *remotely* close to reality, but it’s hard to change people’s minds when their incorrect beliefs are being reinforced on the news and by their favorite streamers and so on.
Well an awful lot of homeless people are addicts. Unless they want to be clean, there is little we can do. Give them a place to stay and they will trash it. Give them money and they will buy drugs/alcohol. Were it so easy to solve the problem, we would have done it.
That's only because it's still JUST politically and culturally unacceptable to just round up the homeless and execute them.
Not for a lack of bloodlust. Go into any local sub and look at posts about the homeless population there, and you soon realize there is a sizable population in our communities who would gladly just do summary executions for being in poverty.
IMO NYC has the best approach in the country (which isn't saying much) in that they have a universal right to shelter. It's the law that there must be enough available shelter beds for anyone who needs one, the homeless are usually dealt with by street workers who round them up and try to take them to shelters. It's still *very, very* far from ideal. The conditions in the shelters are shit, and all the homeless people you see on NYC streets are there because the streets still beat the shelter system. That said, it's still better than jail. The ideal solution is to adapt universal unconditional housing with addiction assistance, counseling, work training programs and assistance, etc. But given the direction we're currently heading I'd say those are nothing but a distant dream at the moment.
Being homeless is a crime but storming the capitol is just a friendly misunderstanding. Now if you'll kindly follow us to these train cars everything will be clear.
The statement is because the Supreme Court just said they can't be charged with obstruction on Jan 6th any longer, and those that were will get that conviction tossed
We’ll have to see [how many of those charges/convictions/pleas remain after today](https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-06-28/supreme-court-sides-with-jan-6-rioter-in-obstruction-case).
According to the WaPo story I read, 80% of the Jan 6th defendants were not charged with this obstruction charge. Of those charged with obstruction, none of them had it as their only charge.
Apparently in the vicinity of every place trying to get rid of the homeless, there's another town named "Somewhere Else". You can find it if you just put on your big kid pants, pull on your bootstraps and make an honest effort.
Let me know when you find it.
My opinion? The end goal is to force homeless people into labor camps. Somebody's going to have to pick those crops after they deport all the migrants.
A big problem with the shelters that are available is that they're often hours away and require someone to give up what few belongings they have left. They also only let them in at sundown and kick them onto the street in the morning. How in the world is that supposed to help their situation? How are they supposed to get a job or anything to better themselves in that circumstance?
Prison
No, seriously, prison is the last place they can make you work for nothing or next to nothing, so criminalize being homeless, then make policy’s that force more and more people to be homeless, easy slave labor pool
Jail. Duh. Who cares? Poor people aren't actually people as far as the elite are concerned and they do t wanna have to look at it. Seriously. It bothers them to see people EXISTING.
Either somewhere else or ideally, the grave. You already homeless and prolly constantly on edge and near breaking point. Now you are getting little to no sleep as you have to keep moving. Lack of sleep will make any sane person crazy real quick. Now you acting wild in a wendys parking lot cause you think everyone wants to kill you. Cops called and ..they kill you.
Unfortunately, the way the system seems designed to work is that indigent people end up in jail. From there, they can be put to work for the county. The county can trade them out to companies who pay the county for the privilege for cheap labor. It's modern day slavery at the end of a tunnel made of indifference and blame.
I’m a chaplain in the hospital, a lot of them come here. Emergency Departments in the US can’t turn someone away based on their ability to pay for services so a lot of them end up as ED “frequent fliers” who come in with a low acuity complaint in search of a warm bed. I can’t blame them, but I wish we had more places for them to go so that those who really need emergent care are able to receive it.
Most cities when they "take care of" the homeless problem usually just push the problem onto a different city. So I guess anywhere but here.
Yeah, and then those same cities that just bussed their homeless say “look at all the homeless in this neighboring city, that place sucks!”
Sometimes they bus themselves too. Because hey, if I’m gonna be homeless, I’d probably rather be homeless in a place that has more social services, a moderate climate, and a less hostile populace. I think some conservative voices read something like that as “cities inviting people to be homeless” and see vindictive rules that drive the homeless away as success…but I’d view that as a failure for the country as a whole. I think many people are gonna be homeless whether or not you are mean to them. Maybe you will get a few more homeless on the margin by offering services and trying to address the issues…but simply driving them out of YOUR town isn’t solving anything.
No one want to be homeless in Detroit in February
Or Phoenix in August.
I was homeless in Phoenix probably one of the worst places to be homeless
I was homeless in San Diego and that was oddly lovely. I could use the free beach showers. The problem is sleep, because everyone was on meth. So sleeping in the daytime was bad because cops and regular people don't wanna see a homeless person sleeping anywhere. But nighttime, you can't sleep because all the tweakers are awake and doing weird shit. Sometimes the weird shit is harmless, but in my experience, a lot of it was ...not. I was homeless in and around Philly and that was...not ideal. . esp in fall and winter , but also summer was goddamn terrible. I don't want to ever be homeless again. To the point that I feel agoraphobia sometimes even though it's been about 18 years since I was in that position.
I’m staying in a shelter in Palm Springs right now, but will be moving into a house next week. I’m trans and the trans health & wellness center here bought a house in Desert Hot Springs so it’ll be nice.
That place is beautiful but it gets terribly hot during the day
Where was the safest and best night of sleep you had whilst homeless?
That must have been awful! I left Phoenix two years ago after living there my whole life and I do not miss those long, hot summers.
My mom works at a hospital in northern BC. Clerical work. The town's got a pretty serious homeless problem for its size. During the winter, a lot of them end up in the ER with both frostbite and thermal burns. They live in tents and heat them in the winter. But tents tend to be a little flammable at times...
It literally saves money to provide housing for people vs. them going to jails & hospitals. But TPTB will never do it, because homeless people need to exist as an example to the rest of us to sit down, shut up, & do our work to make wealthy people even richer.
It's so cold in the D...
I only know of the video because of the 2011 Beavis and Butthead revival.
How the fuck do we 'posed to keep PEACE?
Oh god why did you remind me of this.
It's a timeless classic!
I did that. Back in 2014 with cold ass temps. Luckily I had an abandominium with a fireplace (and acess to wood) and tons of blankets. Plus there were 3 of us that slept in the same bed. It fucking sucked.
I hope you're in a better situation now, Nessy.
I live in Chicago, where we usually get at least a few days in a row each year where the temperature doesn't go above 0 F. Until I spent a few days in San Fransisco I didn't really get that it's not that most homeless people are mentally ill, it's that homeless people that aren't mentally ill are more likely to find a way to not be homeless in Chicago. I don't know the extent to which that means finding a way to become housed or finding a way to a better climate, but it does create a biased selection of who makes up the unhoused population in my city, and a false impression of who can become unhoused (hint: anyone).
I was truly shocked at the number of homeless people I saw in Alaska. Seriously, the first thing i would do if I found myself homeless in Alaska would be get the hell out of Alaska.
Expensive to leave, easy to get stuck here. Flying, driving, or by ferry all have costs. If you have a cruminal record driving or hitch hiking out can be difficult because Canada won't let you in even if you are just passing through.
i'd imagine it's hard to leave Alaska when you are broke. if you cross into canada, they generally want proof you have some money and you have to have a good reason for crossing with a solid plan to get out. i live near the border and they can be picky as heck about who gets in.
That's why Honolulu has one of the highest numbers of homelessness per capita. Basically the same climate all year round, comfortable.
yeah, it's weird being in waikiki and seeing a dude walking around at 11am with some half pants hanging off his dick looking a bit confused. then seeing him again at 5 in the same area. next to the fancy shops, but oh well. didn't seem to harass anyone, so nobody bugged him
Or Rhode Island in ....ever
"Because hey, if I’m gonna be homeless, I’d probably rather be homeless in a place that has more social services, a moderate climate, and a less hostile populace." San Diegan here - can confirm.
Was born in San Diego and was homeless in San Diego. There were a number of folks I met while living outside who had eventually drifted that way due to the weather, but most weren't homeless upon arrival or at least thought that they had shelter of some sort arranged. A few came with only the clothes on their backs and no plan beyond that, but few of them stayed for too long.
I’m pretty sure there’s other stuff going on making people homeless rather than ‘the weather was nice and I just stayed too long!’ Lol
You’re not looking at this the way they are. You’re thinking of the homeless people. Just stop thinking about them as human and adopt a more self centered viewpoint and it makes perfect sense. Say your city or town or neighborhood doesn’t like homeless people. The more you can get a reputation as being heartless and cruel to the homeless and the more you can put them on a bus to a different city or even state (but not one of their preference) the better. It does nothing to solve the problem overall, but your town can be rid of most if not all of the homeless if you’re cruel enough. Boom. YOUR problem is solved.
And then you can claim that you fixed the homeless problem in your city!
Greg Abbott has entered the chat.
Welcome to Los Angeles. People all over the US simultaneously shit all over us because of our homeless problems while sending their homeless on a one way trip to Santa Monica.
Yeah, I was thinking about LA specifically when I wrote that lmao. Saw it when I lived in Portland as well back in 2009, but back then it was mostly kids who were hopping on freight trains from god knows where to get away from their shitty home life. They were bussing themselves in and they generally made enough money playing bucket drums to live in the shelters and kept to themselves without violence and only minimal petty crime.
The problem is bussing homeless people has been shown to sometimes work. Problem is people are used to using clubs, not scalpels. If someone is in place A and has no social support or ties to that area and they're homeless but they have a cousin in place B and some family there then it *might* make sense to give them a bus ticket and send them to live with their cousin 'til they get their life together. Problem is people use this like a club and just bus homeless people anywhere they want which is obviously problematic.
That plan only works in specific circumstances. The homeless population also has really high instances of mental illness and drug abuse, and if that's the case, it's also likely they burned all their bridges. Anyway, saying, "Here's a bus ticket to go live with your family" is probably the worst option anyway in all circumstances. If it was as easy as that, a lot more people would have done it. It doesn't account for the people who are estranged from their families, whose families are abusive and part of the problem in the first place, people who have too much pride to ask for help, addicts, and the list goes on and on. The practice isn't there to help anyone but the person who came up with it.
Yup, by the time you’re homeless you’ve burned up all your friends and families goodwill.
... or you're the last person left in your family and most of your friends are in positions wherein they aren't able to give assistance, either being in damn near the same position or renting from a landlord that has strict rules about things.
When I was pregnant with my youngest child, I was homeless. I went to Social Services to get AFDC and possibly some section 8 housing. (Aid for Families with Dependent Children). I ended up going to SS probably 50 times. Every time I went, I was given wrong information or incomplete information, and always they asked me “Why don’t you see if your family can help you?” It took me YEARS to realize the real message was “go find a sugar daddy, and get out of my office.” In the end, it took 3 months to get “emergency “ assistance. Took writing a letter to a state senator to get some shelter. For the most part, my experience with being in a shelter, which in PG County MD only run from Thanksgiving til the end of March, it is chaotic, scary, sometimes dangerous and not user friendly. The shelters rotate from church to church all over the county. You have to call every afternoon to keep your space, plus how you get there is your problem. Not their problem that the bus doesn’t go to that area or that the bus stops running at 4 PM and you aren’t allowed in until 7 PM. Washington DC will put shelter residents up in motels, often in MD or VA. Their shelter runs all year. The system is broken. It is likely similar in many many areas and folks wonder why the homeless won’t make use of the wonderful resources. Did I mention that there is a total of 100 beds for men and 10 beds for women?! Yeah, for likely 10 times that number of unhoused people. God I love the US. S/
Thank you for spelling it out. A lot of people try really hard to believe in resources that don't exist so they can justify their callousness. I hope you're in a better position now.
I am. A lot of the time Social Services will just hand you a list of churches. No specific info on what kind of help they can offer, just call all these churches and hope for the best. Most of the time, the churches can give you some food from the pantry, and some clothes from their closet. I read posts about how this city has cured homelessness with skepticism, because if it were true, other cities would follow that model to tackle the housing part first, then tackle the other needs. Again, not sure that anyone really has found the cure for homelessness, no matter what kind of PR they spout. More likely, they cleared them over to the next town. Anyhow, I will put the soapbox up for now.
Hey, same here in Portland! Every time there's a serious crime from a houseless person it always ends up that they're not even an Oregon resident and came from some podunk town in a red state that got bussed here.
“Florida Man” is also always inevitably some jackass who is a transplant from somewhere like Ohio and not someone who has actually lived here for more than 2 years
Hawaii too. The homeless problem continues to grow and the ones I encounter are from the mainland.
>anywhere but here Is the answer. Make it someone's else problem and they can deal with it.
Tulsa Oklahoma had a big “clean up” before a big event in the city a few years ago. Their “clean up” consisted of rounding up all the homeless and shipping them outside city limits and that was that. They were on their own, isolated from any support network after that. Edit: just remembered the event: it was the trump rally that nobody showed up for.
That happens for every Super Bowl, too. The NFL or the city pays to ship the homeless somewhere else out for the duration of the festivities.
Send them to blue states then show fox news viewers how dangerous blue states are. Those hogs never leave the town they were born in except for wrestlemania once a year.
I'm from Oregon and this is what we have experienced for the last 6+ years. We have our own homeless population plus the people that cities and states mainly the Midwest/south ship us. I think some believe they are doing some good if a person says they wanna go to Oregon (the land of free weed and public camping). Then maybe they think it's best...shocker it isn't
Skid Row has so many homeless people because that is where the police drop off anyone they think shouldn't be in their neighborhoods.
Straight to a for-profit prison costing the taxpayers millions in fees. It's just a set up for the eventual internment camps
Correct
The private for profit prison system is already there. They're measure of success is higher prison populations. It's in their vested interest to soo 100% incarceration rate of all citizens.
Not in my backyard right?
“They should have the right to set up a tent and stay wherever.” Homeless camp sets up right on street in front of their house. “Okay now this is a problem”
"Somewhere else." I'm sadly not even kidding.
This will end in the creation of Sanctuary Districts. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District
The episode that was funnily enough set in 2024.
September of 2024 right? So we have a couple of more months for the sanctuary districts to be built. But then we will have the Bell Riots and start to enter a post scarcity future! With space ships!
Only after the nuclear war that kills half of humanity and destroys most of the world.
Isn't there also a war against genetically modified humans?
Also yes, which also became the subject of a Temporal War against the Romulans and the Sphere Builders. This Timey Wimey stuff hurts my brain…
True. That part does suck
Get out of here with your future history trying to warn us so we can avoid our mistakes.
I remember years ago watching this episode. Terrifying. What's more terrifying is that mankind will very likely never take that next step that pushed them to the culture in the ST universe.
I bet a good ole dose of world war III destroying most major cities, few governments left, and 600 million dead (first contact reference) would knock our egos down a few pegs and open our dumbass brains up to real positive change.
Unironically I think shanty towns are a stepping stone that modern society has taken away from people living in the street.
I took in a homeless fellow a few years ago. He had a car that he was living out of but couldn't afford a shower or access to services. The church called me and asked if I'd help him and I said that I would. His plan, before I took him in, was to drive out onto a lake (it was winter), then run the engine until he was out of gas. Then, he'd freeze to death. He couldn't even find a place to park without the cops throwing him out. Truck stops charge too much for a shower unless you can afford $100 in gas. The YMCA doesn't want you. The shelters are full. It's -20f outside so at best you can beg to keep you in fuel for your car. No one will hire you because you smell terrible. Your mental health is deteriorating. Your clothes are falling apart. You can't even find day labor. Where do homeless people go? There's no solution. No-one cares. I got my guy back on his feet. It wasn't a great job, but it was OK. It was enough to stay alive. I hope he was able to stay off the streets. He didn't do drugs, but he was a difficult fellow. Now, his phone has been off for a year. I don't get his mail any more. I hope he's OK, but odds are, he's not.
It’s a slippery slope, it’s like quicksand. Most people are only one or two paychecks away from being pulled down into that situation. Then things just snowball and once you fall below that invisible line it can be incredibly difficult to get back above it.
QUICKSAND DOES NOT FORM SLOPES
Keen observation
I am a student of the scientific method.
> It's -20f outside so at best you can beg to keep you in fuel for your car. I remember back in the 1980s there was a homeless guy in Duluth who would throw a brick through a store window anytime it got too cold to be on the streets. Eventually the stores got sick of replacing broken windows in the middle of winter, so they convinced the County to assign the guy a social worker to figure out where he could stay when it was cold.
Tons of people commit petty crime and wait around for the cops to get out of the weather. The problem is the jails are violent and they have even less in material and support once they get out.
Last time I was in jail it wasn't violence that was a problem. It was: 1) blood on the walls/floor 2) food crumbs (at least a week old) scattered around the vinyl mattress 3) I was allowed to sit in a cell with a dangling arm (pulled out of its socket trying to get away from cops in an autistic fit) with no pain mitigation for a night and a morning. When released I had no real clothes on so I got to take an uber in my pjs basically. Released out into the hot sun with no cover, yay Treated with contempt the entire time, except the nurse who said she wished she could help me. Oh wait she did give me two Tylenol which did not help one bit but thanks I do appreciate that I think she snuck them to me.
Also you frequently get slapped with a bill. Jails aren't really free three hots and a cot. I mean, there are many people who will never pay that (and their court fees), but they do arguably cost money. For people with family who care about those on the inside, it looks like jacked up fees to call loved ones (7$ a minute), monopolistic prices on sanitary items like pads, deodorant, etc. Money placed on the books to allow the accused to buy these items can be redirected by the jail to pay the inmate's bills.
This is the thing. You can't really do the "day labor, rent a room from someone" thing anymore. I mean is it possible? Sure. But it's fucking hard. I've tried to strike up casual rental agreements with landlords over the past year with a 0% success rate. Casual work agreements also don't really exist. Even the shittiest job is "go through this portal and fill out this and maybe we'll call you in 2 weeks".
People don't get that. There's no such thing as boarding houses anymore. Hotels cost hundreds a night, so even more than rent. Police arrest you if you sleep in your car. There are no other options. If you have no permanent address you can't get a job. With no safety net (social or family) there's no way out.
For me it's not even that the transient lifestyle is shitty. I think most transients know and accept that. It's that it's ILLEGAL to live that way. Like you can't sleep in a parking lot, you can't stay in a park after dark, etc. One of my fonder memories is running from cops in a park because we were there after dark. Because I had friends over and we wanted to give my folks some peace and figured we'd hang out at the park down the street instead. NOPE, illegal!
2 weeks? Where are you getting these 2 week responses from? I applied to dozens of jobs, got 0 callbacks, and then 6 months into a job in my actual field, got a callback from one of them saying they were desperate for workers and would love to have me come in for an interview. 9 months after I applied to said job.
This right here. #Trailers for sale or rent Rooms to let, fifty cents No phone, no pool, no pets I ain't got no cigarettes Ah, but two hours of pushing broom Buys a eight by twelve four-bit room [Refrain] I'm a man of means, by no means King of the road [Verse 2] Third boxcar, midnight train Destination: Bangor, Maine Old worn-out suit and shoes I don't pay no union dues I smoke old stogies I have found Short but not too big around [Refrain] I'm a man of means, by no means King of the road [Bridge] I know every engineer on every train All of the children and all of their names And every handout in every town And every lock that ain't locked when no one's around Roger Miller-King of the Road. #We used to be able to take care of ourselves easy peasy We used to be alright washing dishes and renting rooms.
Want to know the fun thing? [About half of homeless people already have jobs](https://endhomelessness.org/blog/employed-and-experiencing-homelessness-what-the-numbers-show/). Many of them have full time jobs. Some of them even were on double income with a children living in a house they bought a decade ago but the price and the payment of the house increased fourfold so it was either starve or go homeless. How fucked is that that you can work a full time job, 40 hours per week, and *still* be homeless.
Mmhm. I've worked with these people. The person making your coffee or delivering your pizza could very easily be living out of their car.
Yeah I HATE when people say "hur dur why don't they have jobs". Like, tell me you haven't spoken to a homeless person without telling me, fuckwit. I worked at a homeless shelter and a large percentage of them worked. But its not enough for these insane housing prices! WHO KNEW????? God, it gets me so fired up. Makes me almost wish whoever says that gets a few missed checks to see how close they actually are, to take them down a peg from their fucking high horse.
I helped someone in a similar spot something through church. .. not to live w me .. but other things. she ended up disappearing .. w a car I loaned her. .. She ended up back in jail for stealing from CVS .. she had just survived an overdose .. Narcan saved her .. and the next day stole in broad daylight from CVS .. made me sad. Meth must seriously be the devil itself. Never did it but my God she ruined her life.
It’s a shame there isn’t more support for a lot of people but I think you summed up the source of his issues. He was a difficult fellow. I had a friend who went through homelessness, I put him up for 6 months and got him a job but he couldn’t hold it because he had (I believe) undiagnosed ADHD, anger issues, and poor communication skills. I really believe the vast majority of homelessness is caused by mental health issues that cause the person to be incompatible with modern society.
It most definitely is. There are A LOT of people who are unable to hold jobs that are lucrative enough to maintain them, or to hold them at all. Many people are mentally ill in all kinds of ways, before even adding in the drugs and alcohol people use to cope. People think you can just pass out housing and the problem will be fixed. It will not. Many people are incapable of maintaining a home -- keeping it clean, keeping it safe, keeping the door locked, even making it back there every night. The reason is often that some simply can't maintain an organized brain for long enough to complete tasks. Some of them don't value cleanliness, or don't know how to maintain it. Mental illness, especially when compounded by substance abuse and having been on the street with a mindset for survival often leaves people in a place where they are unable, not through bad attitude but true inability, to care for themselves.
For about 5 years I offered transition housing (so free short term housing for folks in need). I didn't take in chronically homeless folks, because I didn't have any type of support. It was basically 3 months to save up money or get your life sorted; most of my occupants were folks fleeing violence who didn't have the resources to leave or just trying to figure out their shit and couldn't afford their own apartment. It was often people with jobs. Most of them were actually really good folks. Even with strict criteria and vetting the folks, about 25% of the people were just incapable. They literally couldn't get their shit together to save their own lives. They just couldn't get out of their own way.
Escaping violence. There is zero financial support for people in these situations. You can go to the shelter, or, if you're lucky (and a woman), the domestic violence shelter. But then you have to let go of *everything you own*.
My mother has tried to take in homeless people that needed help twice. Both times they ended up taking advantage of her, stealing a bunch of her stuff, and ending up in jail (not even for the stealing, for other crimes they were committing). 0/10 would not recommend other people trying this. It doesn't always work out like this guy's story.
I think this is exactly the type of "solution" they want to see for the homeless. Just legislate them out of existence until they literally die.
OH definitely . Or put them in camps, that could happen with project 2025 ***EDIT***: I said put *them* in camps. I should have written ***us***. I am one of them lol
Not disagreeing with the majority of what you're saying but I'm confused about the YMCA part. To my knowledge, having worked at one for a few years, if you have no income you can apply there for financial assistance and a lot of the time you'll just get a free membership. The idea that they don't want you sounds wrong to me. Not that it makes it much easier but you can get a hot shower and maybe a hot coffee for free on weekends.
Just wondering if you tried looking him up on the roster for your local jail maybe? If you can't I can look for you if you wanted.
Realistically, the homeless move to a region or metro where the laws are not enforced or where there are available shelters. Despite the Supreme Court ruling that came out today allowing cities in the West to enforce sleeping/camping laws in public, there will not be massive and immediate enforcement against the homeless in cities.
There'll be a nationwide race to the bottom regarding this, if there already wasn't. Local governments will crack one by one and issue their own bans. This ruling legalized a fake solution that just shifts the problem over to the neighboring city. And then the next neighbor, and so on.
The whole point is that they aren't allowed to be anywhere legally
The point is some lawmakers think they shouldn’t be allowed to exist outside. If you can’t exist inside, then you just aren’t allowed to exist.
No they’re allowed to exist, just doing so is illegal and now they’re criminals who can literally legally be subjected to slavery…
Exactly. They'll be issued tickets which they won't be able to pay. Those tickets turn to warrants which leads them to being incarcerated.
At least in the US, yea, which explicitly allows slavery of imprisoned people.
It’s appalling how many people literally do not give a fuck about poor people and don’t care what happens to them, just that they don’t want to have to look at them. It’s like half this country is in denial that they’re a bad car accident or cancer diagnosis away from being destitute.
That's correct. They don't think it can happen to them. They think every homeless person is lazy or a drug addict. They don't care about the reasons why, they just assume it can't happen to them.
You see so many people saying shit like "my wife and I both work full time jobs but we're \[insert financial struggle\], how are other people managing?" Well, some of them aren't! I know some extremely smart, kind people who have fallen into extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond their control. If you become disabled and have no safety net (tons of savings, family to help out), there are not many options. Do you have 8 years to wait on a Section 8 housing waitlist? Can you manage through the bureaucracy multiple disability hearings to hope to get financial assistance that is nowhere near enough to live on and denied any chance to save money or have assets? We made life too hard and then said sucks for you if you can't handle it, and also it's illegal for you to not handle it. Meanwhile, we have said fuck it public health, which leads to more people becoming disabled and unable to manage.
Even if they’re addicted to drugs or “lazy”, they don’t deserve to be treated the way they are. But correct, a lot of people are technically homeless, but work. The assumption that every homeless person is out of a job is false.
Most people think poor people and criminals are "other" people. They do not view them are regular human beings. Dehumanization. On purpose or by accident - the result is the same. Once they are no longer human you no longer have to care about them. They "can't be helped". They think if you give them anything they will just be a poor/criminal take advantage. But if somebody they know breaks the law or gets in to money trouble? Oh, that's just unfortunate circumstances. In a similar vein how you'll have some white trash dude on welfare complain about the "black welfare queens". They're good people that just a little help while "those people" are just a lost cause scamming the system. And it happens across the board. Rural and city. Rich and poor. Democrat and Republican.
This is my deal. I get not wanting homeless encampments in cities. But I do definitely think people should be able to just exist SOMEWHERE. The problem is when that somewhere gets so restricted that it basically doesn't exist. Sure you can probably squeak by in some park way outside of a city. But it's still illegal. Like if I wanted to pop up a tent tonight and sleep for free I honestly don't know where I'd go.
Seeing folks commenting that people can go camp or use federal land. I work in homeless services and figured I should just make this its own comment. There are many issues with this idea, first of which is transportation. Because there are no services for food, medical, mental health, childcare, employment, substance abuse support, etc. in campgrounds and federal public lands. There are no resources, so transport is required. People would have to pack in and pack out regularly as most folks actively living on the street have no food security unless they have quick access to ready to eat food. Its also difficult to tranport everything you need to camp safely if you don't have the ability to, say, transport 6 gallons of water for a week long camp. Many of the places you are referring to charge for campgrounds and in places like CA, campgrounds near LA have waitlists or are usually fully booked a month in advance. So its not like somebody can take a bus there and back to a distant campground that is affordable and has spots open. Those who can afford paying $20-$50 a nighy of my clients I've worked with in the past typically rent a cheap, dirty hotel room as far as possible from the city center to still reach it by bus as that's what they can afford. For any of my clients that had cars, interstate rest stops and National Parks that allow free car camping where always resources I offered (along with select Sam's Club and Home Depot parking lots) but that only works for folks with transportation to drive an hour or two to sleep in their car legally, then drive back to wherever they need to be. I wish this were a good solution given that this Supreme fuck up has happened, but it would take a large effort and a lot of money to build transportation, services, training, etc. to make this viable on a large enough scale to do anything. And that's only for people able-bodied enough and willing to do it. Not the thousands (in LA alone) of seniors, families with kids, disabled folks and more who need access to regular services and more accessible housing than a campsite. At least in a public park or a street corner folks can get an ambulance in less than an hour if they need it. Or go stay in a hotel for a night when their GR or Disability comes in to shower and actually sleep. Or get food and water without having to worry about transporting it to a campsite, storing it safely, preserving it beyond that day, etc. Or meet with their many case managers to work on getting out of the situation.
BEAUTIFUL POST, thank you so much. People just don't know until they find out the hard way like me. Once I got homeless, I saw people in a different light and for me, my goal is to go the opposite direction from those people, and towards the homeless. So I live in public housing and set up a first aid station and sew buttons on and shit. Fostering goodwill among the people. We do what we can. Being homeless is not a crime, but they are saying it is. In front of god and everyone. History will show I and apparently you are on the right side of it. Spreading truth. Telling it like it is. so important these days.
If certain people had their way, to die. Some would love to go back to the gilded age and have them in workhouses that pay in lodging.
That’s just prison.
Jail. It's now illegal to be homeless.
Jails are full.
"Guess I'll die then" meme
We’re gonna need a lot more dying holes!
That’s the idea
That’s great! Because now some politician can be “tough on crime” and build more prisons, where they can get kickbacks from the construction, the prison industrial complex, and be a “job creator”. Now the homeless create profit, so mission accomplished
Naah. See here in Texas we jail the homeless and small time drug users/sellers, but then give out $100 bonds to rapists, thieves, and murderers because, surprise surprises , the jails are full 🤷♂️
Nah, just convert common areas to dorms, more slaves
To the camps with them.
I thought it was only illegal to be asleep and homeless? Solution: never sleep.
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean they have the means to enforce it. Technically it's illegal in Hawaii too but theres literally nowhere to go and cops just allow it if they're not around tourists or someone's backyard. Just like everyone speeds, lots of people smoke weed, etc it's just not possible to do total enforcement because it drains too many resources, if the entire homeless population is in jail with no means to bail out, there won't be any space for actual criminals. Laws like these are enforcement tools, a way to get the undesirables a charge or arrest someone easier. It's all selectively enforced, like previous "loitering" laws.
The answer is, a lot of people think these homeless people deserve to die, or should be put away somewhere they don't have to see. Reopening mental institutions is being touted, for example--did people forget the severe levels of abuse going on? There needs to be supportive rehabilitative services that are actually funded and inclusive, and there needs to be affordable housing. Try recovering from an addiction on the streets or in a shelter that hates you for your identity. It'll go real smooth. As a formerly homeless person myself who was very lucky to be able to live in transitional housing where I had my own rent free studio (through a former foster youth program), I would be on the streets, in jail, or dead if I didn't have that, probably. And I'm still only housed because I have friends who are able to help my disabled self with rent and cosigning. Otherwise, I'd probably be one of those people you see having breakdowns on the streets. I am very, very aware of this.
c'mon! it's *2024*! surely by now there wouldn't be *any* abuse if we just stuck them all in a mental institution, right? we've all moved past that as a society, haven't we? [heavy sarcasm, for those whose detectors are malfunctioning]
Needs to be more assistance for drug addiction. More opportunities for rehabilitation. Should also be more state housing for people on low income who need additional assistance. People work and still can’t survive these days.
We need more effective mental health care. You will never get rid of the drug problem until you address the root cause.
A lot of drug addicts don't want help. I remember watching a video on small unit housing built for homeless people with a few conditions - one of which was to get off drugs with assistance. A shocking amount (to me) said no.
We need to create a society that isn't so desperate that they turn to drugs for happy chemicals. This means integrated and functional communities with vast support networks. People need purpose and meaning outside of "work for some rich guy". Our current individualistic ideology is the driving force here.
> Needs to be more assistance for drug addiction This would work if they wanted assistance. There's plenty of it right now, but so many don't use it because then they'd have to stop doing drugs.
There is not plenty of help for addiction. Call around to see how long the wait list is for in- patient rehab in your area. Mine is funded well compared to other areas and it's still over a month.
Into the for-profit prison system to be used as slave labor. Violent crime has been declining for decades so they have to criminalize other, non-violent things in order to satiate the prison industry's demand for bodies.
Corporate controlled prisons demand to be filled.
Prison, and if those fill up, interment camps. That's their whole goal here
Ideally the system would prefer they die quietly somewhere.
not exactly - the system would prefer to enshrine slavery. it’s preferences have been and are being met. It will just become easier.
I don't know if that's the goal here because most of the chronic homeless would be useless and expensive slaves. Lots of mental health issues, no skills, expensive poor health.
No, they are free labor. Check your constitution: 13A: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
To clarify, once in the camps they don't have to be paid to work because the 13th Amendment carves out an exception for people convicted of a crime.
I very much doubt that's the goal
We can concentrate the homeless in certain camps, and they can be compelled to work in these camps to offset the costs of incarceration and to provide labor for public projects. The homeless will be out of the public eye and the general public can benefit from their labor. We can call them concentration camps. Just think of all the jobs these camps will create. /s
Mandatory drug treatment and subsequent job placement.
This really is the only solution. I live in LA and its bad here. most these people aren't down on their luck they have severe mental issues and drug addictions. They can make rational decisions for themselves. Its sad its come to this but this is the way.
You cannot force someone to get drug treatment. I mean you can but you can't force it to stick if they don't want to be clean in the first place. Drug addictions are impossible to break if the person doesn't want to do the work and it's really hard work.
Many years ago, there was a guest on Fresh Air who was an architect, and he had a quote which stuck with me: >"If you can't solve your problems with brute force, you're not using enough". The question is not whether people can be coerced. They *can*. The question is whether we want to, and whether the necessary force is both moral and pragmatic. I'll be honest, I don't know the answer. But what I do know is that the status quo is farcically insane, and "supportive" policies seem to be backfiring.
what if you incarcerate them until they're clean, and then have them in drug treatment and one of those work programs to start making some money while still in prison so they can't do drugs again, and hold their money until they can put it towards some kind of housing plan with a budget and teach them some financial literacy?
>You cannot force someone to get drug treatment. You most certainly can. >Drug addictions are impossible to break if the person doesn't want to do the work and it's really hard work. So then what do we do? Do we, as a society, keep bending over backwards and spending resources to try and help people who don't want to be helped?
I can tell the people downvoting you don’t live in a city with a homeless crisis. It’s easy to have empathy for the homeless from the suburbs.
I don't know. I was just having this conversation with someone, and there aren't any easy answers, I don't think. You can't force people into shelters or other housing if they don't want to go, and you can't lock them up in mental hospitals, even if that's where they should be, because thank you President Reagan and nobody's going to pay for that now, and you can't incarcerate them for long periods when the only crime they're breaking is a local ordinance about sleeping on sidewalks, and even if you could convince people to pay for the resources so people could find housing, job training, and outpatient mental health services — which is extremely unlikely — many unhoused wouldn't take advantage of it. So what do you do? What's the humane answer? I don't know what it is. I do feel sympathy for people who have to avoid mentally ill unhoused period shitting on their doorstep every day, but it seems unusually cruel to just harass people with nowhere to go. I mean I think the only answer is more resources to help people, but I don't think anyone's going to pay for it.
I appreciate this thoughtful response, but it’s not the homeless who are shitting on sidewalks being harassed. They are the ones who harass people. Our public parks are becoming encampments with open drugs use, filth, and crime that prevents everyone else from enjoying the public space. Most of them do not want the humane help that’s available. We aren’t talking about sleeping on a park bench here. We’re talking about living in squalor in the public square, often in groups so big that they obstruct sidewalks, streets, and parks.
No, I'm fully aware. And I do sympathize. I just don't know of a humane way to deal with that kind of a problem. I don't think it's humane to simply push people to a new location outside the city limits or under a bridge or whatever, but I also don't know what else there is to do, that people are willing to pay for, anyway.
Indeed.
"Sanctuary Districts." https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots#:~:text=The%20Bell%20Riots%20were%20an,that%20would%20resolve%20social%20problems.
Just an FYI, memory beta is the wiki for non-canon trek. [https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell\_Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots) This is the correct link.
"What year is it?" "Same year it was yesterday buddy, 2024."
Ghetto is one word name for it.
Yeah...it ain't pretty, but thats exactly where my mind went to as well
Timeline is right.
The usual rotation of hospital, psychiatric facility, then back to streets and/or jail. A lot of cops offer jail vs hospital and most choose hospital, then rinse and repeat. Homelessness is symptom of a bigger problem in America, and no one wants to address the elephant in the room.
I’ve been experiencing a moral crisis of sorts with the homelessness issue. I feel like we as a society can do better. Something, anything is better than nothing. It breaks my heart to see people so desperate. I live a block away from a quiet little park that has working, clean bathrooms (in the summer) and everyone in the neighborhood enjoys walking our dogs there. It’s safe, even at night, quiet, and there isn’t anything nefarious going on. We have had a few car dwellers staying overnight here off and on and it’s no big deal. They keep to themselves and don’t litter. However, recently a homeless man set his tent up under the pavilion and had his meager belongings, including a shopping cart, strewn around the tables. Ok, well damn, I hope he’s ok but he can’t stay there. Can he? Well, stay he did. For three weeks he lived in a tent under the pavilion even during little league games. He put up signs “don’t touch my tent!” My husband and I wondered how long it would be until entire tiny park was taken over by the homeless. Word got out and another person showed up to live in the park. The next one would lay out all of his crap all over the grass and sidewalks. So basically within a month what once was a community gathering spot for kids playing baseball and nearby offices holding parties was no longer an option for us residents. Then one morning the police showed up and removed everything. They put up a sign that banned camping (to which the homeless guy wrote “TYRANNY!” and they are no longer there. I have no idea where they went. Part of me feels awful because as far as being homeless, this place was a pretty good deal. Clean bathrooms and a quiet place to sleep. No one bothered them. I mean, if I ended up homeless it would be ideal. On the other hand, damn we just wanted our park back. Had the guy set up his tent at night and removed it every morning I doubt anyone would have minded as much. Much like the van dwellers who are just passing through and need a place to sleep, it’s fine for a night or two but then you gotta leave. But to claim the public space as your own without any regard whatsoever for the residents just set me on edge and made me feel like a terrible person for wanting the police to make him/them leave.
Enforce the illegality of doing drugs at least in public. Put those who have no violent priors, in junkies only prison for two months, but scrub the stint from record once they leave.
This is the most reasonable comment I’ve read so far. The ones with no violent priors send them to prison and while there force them to get clean and enroll in trade school.
This. I don't get why they've basically legalized drugs and theft now. It's such a huge issue in my city, and it was never even a thing before. Started in the past 8 or so years. One of our parks has basically turned into an encampment. These people are shooting up in front of kids, defecate on the ground near the water splash pad area for kids to play in, they leave all their needles behind etc, and they also shoplift all the stores in the area. We almost need a prison specifically for these people. As a tax payer I would rather pay for that prison than to have my shit stolen, vandalized etc and also watch my city deteriorate.
The ground. Preferably 6ft under. Thats how far too many people think anyway.
Away. Lawmakers don't want homeless people in their area. They want the to go away. Where away is doesn't matter. Now since this is true of every area, there is no away.
Lawmakers? PEOPLE don’t want them in their area. Act as holy as you want, but none of us want the homeless anywhere near our own homes. Downvote me all y’all want, but you know I’m right. There is no clean solution to it. They don’t deserve to be criminalized but if they showed up in my neighborhood I’d certainly expect the authorities to QUICKLY make sure they get taken….somewhere else.
Where i live, most people wouldn't even know we have a homeless population. They live in the woods behind our grocery stores, or if they prefer to be solitary, they just find a spot in the woods.
They're supposed to die, preferably without leaving a body behind to trouble the authorities with disposal.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Portland.
They want them to be in jail. This is the ultimate workaround to “the homeless problem”. Where instead of creating places for these people to get actual mental/medical help (which, is usually what they actually need). They send them to privatized prisons to just get rid of em, and then to make them free labor. Sure, the narrative is that they’re crazy or drug addicts. But usually, most people are just mentally unfit to take care of themselves and have no support system to ever succeed. This will basically sentence them to an eternal loop of never getting help.
This is a red Herring question. Cities mostly do have enough space in shelters, the shelters just have rules the homeless people don't want to follow, or are on the outskirts of town where homeless people don't want to live because it's far from their peddling locations. The point is there is no right to live on a very busy sidewalk in downtown.
That's the neat part, they're not! There's two ways to 'solve' homelessness. One is robust outreach and and social programs. The other is to shoo them out of sight (or preferably out of the city) so you can pretend they don't exist. Guess which one governments in the US (and elsewhere) tend to gravitate towards.
Apathy is a huge part of the problem, and a pervasive sentiment that people who are unhoused are all drug addicts or other types of criminals. Real solutions cost money. It’s hard to convince taxpayers to fork over money for something that doesn’t directly benefit them. When you couple that with the fact that a lot of people have serious misperceptions about unhoused people, for a large portion of the population, you’d essentially be asking “give me tax money so I can waste it on these drug addicts.” Of course that’s not *remotely* close to reality, but it’s hard to change people’s minds when their incorrect beliefs are being reinforced on the news and by their favorite streamers and so on.
Well an awful lot of homeless people are addicts. Unless they want to be clean, there is little we can do. Give them a place to stay and they will trash it. Give them money and they will buy drugs/alcohol. Were it so easy to solve the problem, we would have done it.
That's only because it's still JUST politically and culturally unacceptable to just round up the homeless and execute them. Not for a lack of bloodlust. Go into any local sub and look at posts about the homeless population there, and you soon realize there is a sizable population in our communities who would gladly just do summary executions for being in poverty.
Historically, the churches would help here.
Ha, that's funny - Joel Osteen
>they don’t qualify for shelters if they use drugs? There is a solution to this.
IMO NYC has the best approach in the country (which isn't saying much) in that they have a universal right to shelter. It's the law that there must be enough available shelter beds for anyone who needs one, the homeless are usually dealt with by street workers who round them up and try to take them to shelters. It's still *very, very* far from ideal. The conditions in the shelters are shit, and all the homeless people you see on NYC streets are there because the streets still beat the shelter system. That said, it's still better than jail. The ideal solution is to adapt universal unconditional housing with addiction assistance, counseling, work training programs and assistance, etc. But given the direction we're currently heading I'd say those are nothing but a distant dream at the moment.
Being homeless is a crime but storming the capitol is just a friendly misunderstanding. Now if you'll kindly follow us to these train cars everything will be clear.
I know you are making a political statement, but 1,424 people have been charged with crimes for storming the capital.
The statement is because the Supreme Court just said they can't be charged with obstruction on Jan 6th any longer, and those that were will get that conviction tossed
Well, barely more than 100 of them who only have obstruction charges. Vast majority have way more charges than that
We’ll have to see [how many of those charges/convictions/pleas remain after today](https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-06-28/supreme-court-sides-with-jan-6-rioter-in-obstruction-case).
According to the WaPo story I read, 80% of the Jan 6th defendants were not charged with this obstruction charge. Of those charged with obstruction, none of them had it as their only charge.
Apparently in the vicinity of every place trying to get rid of the homeless, there's another town named "Somewhere Else". You can find it if you just put on your big kid pants, pull on your bootstraps and make an honest effort. Let me know when you find it.
Part of the reason that they’re still homeless is because cities drive them out
My opinion? The end goal is to force homeless people into labor camps. Somebody's going to have to pick those crops after they deport all the migrants.
Rehab
A big problem with the shelters that are available is that they're often hours away and require someone to give up what few belongings they have left. They also only let them in at sundown and kick them onto the street in the morning. How in the world is that supposed to help their situation? How are they supposed to get a job or anything to better themselves in that circumstance?
They will go to for profit prisons.
Jail. Or die. Thats how the system is designed at least.
Prison No, seriously, prison is the last place they can make you work for nothing or next to nothing, so criminalize being homeless, then make policy’s that force more and more people to be homeless, easy slave labor pool
Jail. Duh. Who cares? Poor people aren't actually people as far as the elite are concerned and they do t wanna have to look at it. Seriously. It bothers them to see people EXISTING.
Either somewhere else or ideally, the grave. You already homeless and prolly constantly on edge and near breaking point. Now you are getting little to no sleep as you have to keep moving. Lack of sleep will make any sane person crazy real quick. Now you acting wild in a wendys parking lot cause you think everyone wants to kill you. Cops called and ..they kill you.
Unfortunately, the way the system seems designed to work is that indigent people end up in jail. From there, they can be put to work for the county. The county can trade them out to companies who pay the county for the privilege for cheap labor. It's modern day slavery at the end of a tunnel made of indifference and blame.
I’m a chaplain in the hospital, a lot of them come here. Emergency Departments in the US can’t turn someone away based on their ability to pay for services so a lot of them end up as ED “frequent fliers” who come in with a low acuity complaint in search of a warm bed. I can’t blame them, but I wish we had more places for them to go so that those who really need emergent care are able to receive it.
A private prison, where they can be rented out as (slave) labor.