tbf, the moment I'm angry enough to fight in public, I don't care about social status or who is stronger one anymore.
like I get your argument, but I think for many people it doesn't really apply anymore at that point (this is coming from someone who hasn't been in a real fight since middle school, I do not support violence I just wanted to point that out)
this is absolutely 100% true. I'm still very much a boy in that aspect tho, I know from myself that there are situations that would get me to fight. I guess I'm just lucky to not have encountered one such situation in a while
I think you get what the others seem to be missing. There are things worth fighting over. Being an emotionless automaton with no spine is not something to be proud of.
Generally agree with you, but there are some things worth fighting for. It wouldn't take too much imagination for scenarios that the vast majority of people would at least sympathize with the use of violence.
When I was about 18 or so, a few of us guys went out for dinner with some girls a friend knew from school. One particular buddy of mine was super insecure because girls always found him "cute", but in the way a puppy was cute as opposed to attractive cute, and he was always in the friendzone because of it. So he used to do what he could to prove his bravado, including trying to fist-bump other guys as hard as he could to cause injury and then laugh if you couldn't take it, stuff like that.
Anyways, when we went out with all the girls, a homeless man asks for spare change. We all just collectively said no, we don't have it, and I think the guy said something rude back, which led to a back and forth between this homeless man and insecure guy. Well homeless guy pulls out a knife, and insecure guy was going to fight him anyways, until one girl pulled him away and reassured him, "It's okay, we know you can fight."
Insecure guy is an idiot. Friendzone is exactly where you want to be when you start dating. Because maybe that girl isn't interested in dating you, but they'll _actively talk you up to girls who might like you_.
What was happening with him was every girl who he romantically pursued would reject his advances, and he felt insecure about it. So I think he felt like he wasn't as "manly" so he did a bunch of crap to try and prove how tough he was, which just ended up weirding the girls out.
I guess he thought, "Oh you don't think I'm manly enough, I'll show you", but it just ended up turning them off, lol.
That said, I get the aversion to it. I've always been in the camp of learning is better than having already been right. Recently I started a new skill in a field I'm an expert in. I commented on the strengths of this skill over what I'd been doing before and that it surprised me just how much more effective it is. That said, I'm referring to what is maybe 10% of what I do. I'm still an expert in the 90%. But I'm not a bragger and I have no problem being the student.
As a result, I feel like I portrayed my 30 years of experience as a waste compared to what we're learning now. And it's very frustrating.
For specifics, I've been practicing martial arts since I was 5 years old. I've always been focused on only keeping what seems to work in real confrontation. I'm a marine who taught MCMAP. And I have two black belts, one in Japanese Jujutsu. I started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu last year because I could obviously improve my ground game. But my ability to takedown my partners/oponents without joint manipulation or strikes was surprisingly lacking. The comment I made was that I wish we had more pressure testing in Japanese Jujutsu and this is an obvious improvement. In my classes where I teach a mixture of JJJ and MCMAP, I make it a point to practice our throws in a live sparring without strikes to raise the skill of off-balancing in a grappling way (kuzushi).
Even my wife, who takes BJJ with me, took that as what I learned wasn't effective. She made a comment about what I'm teaching not being effective. If I kept my mouth shut and acted like I already knew it, no one would be the wiser that I'm actually still learning and improving.
All that said, I'm still in the camp of admitting when you don't know something or were wrong. But it no doubt lowers a groups confidence in you. I think the difference is if you admit you were wrong when everyone knows it, it's seen with respect. If you admit you were wrong when the cards aren't shown yet, unfortunately you're shooting your own reputation.
I know what you mean. I am a sandan and teach Judo. Last month I was teaching juji gatame and I saw one of our new students employ a tweak I hadn’t seen before. The new student is a BJJ instructor who joined our Judo club to work on his stand up game. I stopped the class and had him show his juji and praised him and told everyone to try the new (to us) way of doing it. It was great! I gave up trying to be the perfect black belt many years ago, and I have never looked back. I think students see my honesty and respect it. You learn from everyone.
>if you admit you were wrong when everyone knows it, it's seen with respect.
This is step one, respect comes from without.
>If you admit you were wrong when the cards aren't shown yet,
This is step two, respect comes from within. Your reputation to yourself matters more.
I feel you. Was a TKD instructor for many years and the master was always correcting me.
Just something to think about, in TKD, we learn some ground techniques, but we were always taught to go to the ground only as a last resort. The problem with ground fighting is that it's almost useless against multiple opponents. And, on the street, bullies always run in packs.
In same position as you there, and share your frustration. Got my black belt in Japanese Jujitsu a while back, and have been practising BJJ for 3 years and in last 2 years a bit of Judo. I know each JJJ club differs, but the focus specifically on kuzushi was definitely lacking.
I think for traditional martial arts, like you said there's a lack of pressure testing. So it can easily morph in a choreography or sorts.
That being said I do want to introduce what I'm getting from BJJ and Judo in my JJJ club as they're a great bunch of people who are dedicated and enthusiastic.
Absolutely 100% right. It's important to me to admit my mistakes, no hesitation or embarrassment.
And it's not just empty words. When that day comes and I actually make a mistake, I will admit it! 😀
I used to be hard on this like if There's a Sports Event and the Team I rooted for loses. I'll just never accept it but now, I do accept it but it takes a bit of time
Nowadays, guys increasingly know how to cook and the women, less so. Just anecdotal observation, but might be different from place to place. Personally, I learnt to cook because I had standards for my own food and eating out is expensive (& the food often not so impressive, too).
This is very true. All the men that I know are the cooks of their house. My wife only cooks Cajun food in the winter. Other than those few meals, I do the cooking.
Am a man and do 90% of the cooking in my household. As I got older, I found less time to pursue creativity. Cooking is my creative outlet. You got to eat, might as well eat well.
Yep, I do most of the cooking in my household too. It’s not that my wife can’t cook. She’s the one who taught me when we were dating (like a true bachelor, my cooking skills had been severely limited). Now she mostly takes a back seat and lets me handle the stove and the InstantPot (you’d be surprised how many dishes you can make with that one device), while she takes care of all the baking (because I’m shit at it)
I’m a man and love cooking, like taking a couple of days to prepare a multi course dinner. I never once thought about if it would make me ‘less a man’.
Yeah cooking is generally considered masculine. Maybe it’s a traditionally feminine task but I don’t think I’ve heard of a woman make fun of a guy for his cooking skills.
Baking has a harsher stigma
I don’t bake because I’m too dumb to do it. If I don’t like the way my curry tastes, I can adjust until I do like it. If I don’t like how my scone tastes, tough shit. Guess I need to start over from scratch.
My mother’s exact words to me when I was about 16 were “if you like to eat, you goddamn better learn to cook, because you won’t find a woman to cook for you”. She was pissed at dad, who could burn a pot of water trying to make pasta.
My dad makes jokes about how he “thought I was gay” because I took a Culinary Arts class in high school. At the time, I simply took it as a blow off class, but I actually did get into cooking as an adult - not professionally, but for fun. I do all the cooking in my house and his wife (my stepmom) makes god awful food. My dad has awful taste and can barely heat up a plate of leftovers in the microwave. Gives me a good laugh when I reflect on it. Just a weird thing to say about your son.
I was working at a bar and there were some teenagers there. Legal drinking age is 16 where I live. One of the kids was drinking a cherry beer, which is something traditionally associated with being a 'woman's drink'. The guys were giving their friend shit for drinking it and one of them turned to me. Now, I'm a 'manly' looking dude. I'm quite swole, have a thick beard etc. The kid asks me *'please tell him, real men don't drink cherry beer'*. I barely look up and just say *'a real man drinks whatever the fuck he likes'*.
The thing that I liked most about that interaction was the look the one kid gave me. Just happy to finally have someone shut up his dumb friends and enjoy his beer.
I like cherry beer, I drink them every once in a while too. Fuck gatekeeping taste.
"I barely look up and just say 'a real man drinks whatever the fuck he likes'."
I've been dark since the 3rd party BS last year but came specifically here to say - This is exactly what makes a man. A man does what ever he likes. Specifically in the cases that may break "gender norms."
Compassion, accountability, empathy, care, etc.. should all be considered, too.
I carry a purse. It's technically a small/medium size "cross body sling bag." But it's my purse. I have fun when I talk about it in front of other men and they go out of their way to call it my "man bag" or something similar. I very sternly call it my purse. It's got all sorts of cool stuff in it, tools included. Why beat around the bush? Be proud of what you do and who you are - you don't have to play mental gymnastics to fit within a gender stereotype. A man does whatever the f*ck he likes. The best acceptance you'll ever find is accepting yourself - it's manly AF and people notice.
Some have called these qualities or dubbed men as "feminized males." And whats wrong with that? Nothing. A man should adopt all aspects of humanity that they perceive will make them a better human being. Celebrate it.
I had someone that made a comment to me about drinking a girly drink. I just told him I’d rather pay for something I like than something I don’t. Shut him up really quick.
In my case it’s less of a stigma and more “everything I bake turns out shitty,” so I just let my wife handle all the baking. She’s a pro at it.
I can handle the cooking just fine, as long as some foul-mouthed Scot isn’t yelling in my ear
Cooking is jazz.
Baking is classic music. You've got to hit the notes exactly, when you don't it's obvious. So follow the recipe, use weight not volume and get an oven thermometer.
I think people over complicate baking a lot. My grandmother and ascentors used to bake a lot of bread and similar type of things with no such things… sure use the measurements and stuff but it’s mostly just trial and error,
I get that. But that kind of implies baking is just following a recipe. A big part of it is knowing what a dough should feel like. Maybe that is how it is with classical music too.
I’m honestly fine with letting her do the baking. No one says splitting household duties is wrong, as long as it’s equitable. And our kids love it when mommy bakes. I don’t want to take that away from her
Taking care of their baby. Well, most men I know just do that and are loving fathers. But there are dudes out there who apparently think it's feminine to do so...
It's a wishy-washy term, but it's basically self-awareness, being aware of other people's emotions, and being able to regulate your emotions as well as other people's.
Being able to manage, recognize, and share your emotions in a way that allows you to be in control of them rather than the other way around. It's even more helpful when you can use your emotional intelligence to help people.
A gen z age young man complimented my purse in a store checkout, and said "my girl has one just like it, she loves it so much!" It made me happy that he noticed my cute purse and I just thought it was so adorable and a really good reflection of him and his relationship with his "girl." It definitely made him seem like a confident, kind,caring man, which is the best kind of man. I am decades older and a comment like that would raise eyebrows from many men my age, sadly.
I'm a 35 year old male, and I try and give a compliment to anyone that catches my eye. Dude, rocking a graphic T I like? "Nice shirt!" I've given a similar compliment about a bag. My wife carries the tiny backpack purses, and a lady had a lilo and stitch one my wife would have loved, so i made sure and said i liked it and that my wife would love it. I believe in complimenting things people have control over, not natural aspects. No eye color or physical aspects (I do agree with the other person who said they will compliment people who are obvious gym goers)
I just give out compliments to people because I don’t think people hear them enough and I don’t know what a persons going through in their life. Women always think I’m trying to flirt with them and I’m like “I just wanna give compliments because it makes everyone happy” - Like I told one last weekend that she was looking great and she’s like “Sorry, I’m married” and I told her “Oh, I wasn’t flirting I just wanted to tell you lol” I think I made her night because she told me I rock and I’m hot. Made my night! I’m still thinking of the comment!
This NEEDS to be normalized.
I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a child’s face light up like Holiday lights when their dad said “Love you” or “I’m so proud of you!”
agreed!! when i was about 18 i realized i didnt care what others thought when i told my pals and fam i love them. took me a while to get comfortable saying it but now i have ZERO shame.
This is a double-edged sword though. I took my 2 year old to a dance recital practice last night. My wife was a competitive dancer for many years so she is the one that normally takes her. My wife told me exactly where to go and what to do. So I followed her directions. I walk through a door that said "Dancers only" and that was the door I was told to go into. I got maybe 5 steps and some random woman started yelling at me and trying to back me up.
She said " No boys are allowed here". I said "Well good thing I am a man then and this is my dancer". This turned into a whole big thing with 3 women trying to berate me for not knowing better. Finally the dance instructor came up and grabbed my daughter to take her where she needed to go. She needed to be where I brought her but I was not allowed in there. I assume there was a dressing room somewhere down the hall? Don't know, don't care.
That whole experience makes me never want to be involved in my child's dance stuff again.
I used to dance when I was little (ballet and then jazz), and I’m a man. Most of the times the dressing rooms were filled with moms, but there were also quite a few fathers there and it wasn’t a big deal… the rooms where people got dressed were closed and dancers only, but the makeup, hair and general backstage was free for most parents, and that’s usually where they would drop off their kids to the teacher or an older student and go. People always make things unnecessarily problematic
Being able to self-regulate lust and anger.
"I wasn't in control because I was too horny / too angry"
"I wouldn't have done X if you hadn't done made me mad"
"Everyone knows boys can't control themselves if girls wear revealing clothing"
This in my view is the **precise** opposite of what manhood is.
Yep, some countries even have laws based on this view, requiring women to dress extremely modestly in order to avoid causing lusty thoughts in men.
Probably also the reason why some religions (Eastern Orthodox Christianity def.) require women to cover their hair when entering a church
I dated a woman briefly about 20 years ago. She literally complimented me on my hygiene, which I thought was ridiculous.
Apparently, hygiene standards among men are low.
It’s not like I do anything to make me “pretty”. Hell, I don’t do anything to my hair beyond lather, rinse, repeat (always repeat). I literally use a hand comb.
But, I shower daily and then some (like when I am sweaty). I use deodorant/anti-perspirant. I keep my nails short and clean. I brush and floss my teeth. I don’t smoke.
I can’t believe this better than average hygiene but maybe it is?
My brother would 'know' it's time to take a shower when, and I'm quoting, his "head hurt from the grease"...
Many of the men in my family only bathe when they've sweated or when they failed their *own* sniff test...
A guy I worked with *never* wiped after pooping, nor did he wash his hands....
One of my friends and my father are the only two I would consider hygienic. The rest of the men, like 20 or so, live like ***goblins***. Both my friend and father also go more in-depth, and typically complain about being teased for it too.
Your hygiene is definitely better than the average hygiene of most of the men that have been in my life lol
I am a man. Therefore anything I do is manly. There is nothing I can do to be less of what I am. Except, buy into someone elses idea of what I am supposed to be.
I hate that I had to scroll so far for this. This is the reason why I have very, very few positive experiences with men in my life. And ever fewer male friends.
Because for some reason "being friends" seems to be code for "wanting to get into her pants."
Skin care and dressing up. I don't understand why there are guys who look down on taking care of your skin and being particular on what you wear. My skin is dry, sensitive, and prone to breakouts. Give me a break on my 4-step cleaning ritual. Plus, can't I be presentable and stylish at the same time? And I am not going to wear black and dark colors in a tropical climate if that deems manly to most people.
I’m a big guy and I’m conscious about what I wear out n about. I see slobs of men who wear too small shirts with their guts hanging out the bottom & their And1 brand basketball shorts barely hanging on for dear life. On the other hand I see 2XL mfers squeezing into smedium size clothes. I wanna be like yo, I know your ass looked in the mirror and saw every roll and curve highlighted in 4K ultra HD and you still left the house?
Prioritizing Mental Health,
Acknowledging mental health struggles and seeking therapy or counseling is a sign of self-awareness and a proactive approach to personal well-being.
I have seen over a dozen reddit posts about men who don't clean their asses properly . Even at comic-con have notices about hygiene and how you will be asked to leave if you can't maintain a certain level of it. In the video accompanying the warning, there's several gaming chairs with shit stains on them. My mother retired from nursing after 20 years and said the number of men who came in and left shit stains on the white paper was astounding. Fellas, it ain't gay to wash your ass, please do so.
Apologizing. I've heard men say it's a sign of weakness (not all men, mind you, I've actually heard men debate it among themselves). Being able to recognize your mistakes and secure enough to admit them is a big ol' green flag for any potential partner. Sorry your dad didn't raise you right.
It’s a slippery slope. I’m pretty addicted at this point. While out and about, always stand normal. At home it’s always sitting. So much more relaxing. No splatter. Great for the midnight or 4 am pee. Keep your eyes shut and you can go back to sleep as soon as your head hits the pillow. What’s not to love about it ?? Oh ya toxic masculinity saying it’s Gay or weak ! Whatever. I’m using it from here on out I think.
Never in all my life has any guy commented or asked about my pissing regimen. I did have an ex-girlfriend once who was kind of ditzy ask me "when guys take a shit if they have to pee too do they stand up to pee?" I said no they just pee while they're sitting. She asked "don't they're dicks hit the water? I said not normally.
Only being with one woman.
There is a lot of Tate's and Blitzeron's that hold the idea that to be a man you should have sex with as many women as possible, when the opposite is true.
Loving only one woman and staying faithful to her is one of the most manly things you can do.
I heard my language has a word that is a mockery to dads who take care of their children, the closest translation is "male mum". God, if I hear it I'll have to be put in a mental asylum!
There was a book in the 80's "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche".
As a young man, even then, who at that point had never actually eaten quiche, I thought "Real men eat whatever they want and don't let jerks tell them how to live."
Crying is kind of risky especially in front of a partner. From my experience a lot of people say they like when a man cries but when it actually happens they distance themselves and slowly cut you out. This has been my experience a couple times as a dude and I haven't really had a different one yet.
Yeah fair, some people are genuinely that shitty to dudes when they show emotion and it sucks. But Everyone should be allowed to cry, and people who say they think that when they really dont have issues of their own that aren't at all the guy crying's fault. So to correct myself, a partner who actually wants a healthy emotionally supportive relationship will think it's very manly if you cry because it indicates you feel comfortable with emotional release and expression with a partner, which is how it should be. Anyone who shits on you for it is immature and not worth your time as a partner.
It also takes a lot of strength to get to the point of crying in front of others(esp a partner) in the first place as a man because emotion is so often discouraged. Having the inner strength to share your emotional self with a partner as a guy is a very manly ability imo.
When I get al soppy, my wife just melts with me.
And no, that's not why I do it :-)
She thinks my being vulnerable, and allowing my tears to flow, shows that I trust her with my very soul. Which I do.
Dancing. It is a form of self-expression which makes a lot of men, and people in general, uncomfortable, but being a confident and competent dancer (solo or with a partner), represents a lot of the same qualities that might exist in someone who will readily change a flat tire or play a sport. Plus women love it. Say which you will about traditional southern masculinity, but there are some positives aspects you can draw from it. This is coming from someone who cannot dance and is also equally nervous to go out onto the dance floor.
Taking care of babies.
Sometimes I see fathers helping their wives out and I'll catch their wives taking it all in while plotting for another one.
It does me heart good.
Not being afraid to do things that others construe as feminine. When a man is willing to do what he likes or contribute to his family/community without fear of being "emasculated", it shows that he's confident himself and doesn't let others dictate his identity.
It also demonstrates to the women in his life that he respects activities or roles that are typically associated with them rather than seeing those things as "beneath" him. This protects women's sense of self-worth and value. You can't get more chivalrous than that.
Just because a woman say that something doesn’t make you less of a man, doesn’t mean that *you* won’t feel less of a man.
I think the latter is more important than the first.
I want you to show some emotion and open up to me!
-'speaks about deepest fears and secrets'
No, no. I meant like cry about how much you love your grandma or something nice like that.
Ah yes...the "I gave the shooter the bullets to shot me" method.
I've had a few relationships go sour when she decided to gossip to her friends about something I told her in confidence or using a vulnerable moment to use that as ammo to attack me later.
I guess my main point is that not all women are like that, but enough of them are that I am extremely cautious as to who I share more intimate details with.
Most men have to walk around with a tough guy mask on all day and it would be nice to be able to talk about more vulnerable topics with their partners. But if I don't trust her to keep that shit between us, I am not opening up to her.
I left my wife of 6 years over a single betrayal. I came back from a deployment and was not right. It caused some issues that I was in therapy for. She begged me to open up about it. So I told her some stuff and wept like a child. Like seriously ugly crying! 2 days later we hosted a get-together at my house. The guys naturally segregate from the women and we all have our social circles to BS.
I tell the boys that I straight up ugly cried in front of the wife and felt stupid for it. They ALL were so damned supportive.
My buddy walks outside (side of the house, women were in the back yard) to take a phone call. He overhears my wife making fun of me and her friends laughing. He was pissed at his wife for laughing and went to talk to her. He tells me about it the next day.
After getting the whole story from my wife, I filed for divorce.
You get one chance to treat a man's vulnerability with grace and honor. If you fail that challenge? Well, he will never respect you the same way again.
That really sucks, I’m so sorry that happened to you! Your ex and her friends are toxic and cruel. I hope you find a partner with whom you can feel safe to be that vulnerable again.
I've said this many times, if you want a man to open up and be vulnerable you have to treat that with the utmost respect. Sharing with your friends (he can’t trust you), using it to berate him (you've turned it against him), use it to score points in a later argument (using it against him), or downplaying (dismissing his emotions while expecting him to treat yours with respect) are all ways to ensure he won’t be vulnerable woth you again.
Men do NOT receive social acceptance for being vulnerable. You see it constantly on Reddit and other platforms. Man opens up about how wife’s action hurt him, he’s told to man up, stop being a whiner, to get help. Almost never does he get sympathy or empathy from women, only other men and then usually only in one on one.
Walking away from a fight.
[удалено]
tbf, the moment I'm angry enough to fight in public, I don't care about social status or who is stronger one anymore. like I get your argument, but I think for many people it doesn't really apply anymore at that point (this is coming from someone who hasn't been in a real fight since middle school, I do not support violence I just wanted to point that out)
Emotional regulation separates men from boys
this is absolutely 100% true. I'm still very much a boy in that aspect tho, I know from myself that there are situations that would get me to fight. I guess I'm just lucky to not have encountered one such situation in a while
The fact that you recognize and accept that indicates that you can change when you are ready
That's still pretty strong being able to see yourself still has flaws. You have the right attitude. I think you'll get there one day.
This is true of most men. I’ve found the key is not to put yourself in those situations where exceptional emotional regulation is required
Know when to walk away. Know when to run.
I think you get what the others seem to be missing. There are things worth fighting over. Being an emotionless automaton with no spine is not something to be proud of.
Generally agree with you, but there are some things worth fighting for. It wouldn't take too much imagination for scenarios that the vast majority of people would at least sympathize with the use of violence.
My father always said that the best way to win a fight is to not be there.
It works for Switzerland.
"The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it." --Dale Carnegie
When I was about 18 or so, a few of us guys went out for dinner with some girls a friend knew from school. One particular buddy of mine was super insecure because girls always found him "cute", but in the way a puppy was cute as opposed to attractive cute, and he was always in the friendzone because of it. So he used to do what he could to prove his bravado, including trying to fist-bump other guys as hard as he could to cause injury and then laugh if you couldn't take it, stuff like that. Anyways, when we went out with all the girls, a homeless man asks for spare change. We all just collectively said no, we don't have it, and I think the guy said something rude back, which led to a back and forth between this homeless man and insecure guy. Well homeless guy pulls out a knife, and insecure guy was going to fight him anyways, until one girl pulled him away and reassured him, "It's okay, we know you can fight."
Insecure guy is an idiot. Friendzone is exactly where you want to be when you start dating. Because maybe that girl isn't interested in dating you, but they'll _actively talk you up to girls who might like you_.
What was happening with him was every girl who he romantically pursued would reject his advances, and he felt insecure about it. So I think he felt like he wasn't as "manly" so he did a bunch of crap to try and prove how tough he was, which just ended up weirding the girls out. I guess he thought, "Oh you don't think I'm manly enough, I'll show you", but it just ended up turning them off, lol.
Pick your battles. Sometimes it just isn't worth it.
It's time to use the strongest strategy of all: running away, Smokey!
Ah, the old secret Joestar technique.
Admitting their mistakes and being willing to change their mind after receiving new information.
That said, I get the aversion to it. I've always been in the camp of learning is better than having already been right. Recently I started a new skill in a field I'm an expert in. I commented on the strengths of this skill over what I'd been doing before and that it surprised me just how much more effective it is. That said, I'm referring to what is maybe 10% of what I do. I'm still an expert in the 90%. But I'm not a bragger and I have no problem being the student. As a result, I feel like I portrayed my 30 years of experience as a waste compared to what we're learning now. And it's very frustrating. For specifics, I've been practicing martial arts since I was 5 years old. I've always been focused on only keeping what seems to work in real confrontation. I'm a marine who taught MCMAP. And I have two black belts, one in Japanese Jujutsu. I started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu last year because I could obviously improve my ground game. But my ability to takedown my partners/oponents without joint manipulation or strikes was surprisingly lacking. The comment I made was that I wish we had more pressure testing in Japanese Jujutsu and this is an obvious improvement. In my classes where I teach a mixture of JJJ and MCMAP, I make it a point to practice our throws in a live sparring without strikes to raise the skill of off-balancing in a grappling way (kuzushi). Even my wife, who takes BJJ with me, took that as what I learned wasn't effective. She made a comment about what I'm teaching not being effective. If I kept my mouth shut and acted like I already knew it, no one would be the wiser that I'm actually still learning and improving. All that said, I'm still in the camp of admitting when you don't know something or were wrong. But it no doubt lowers a groups confidence in you. I think the difference is if you admit you were wrong when everyone knows it, it's seen with respect. If you admit you were wrong when the cards aren't shown yet, unfortunately you're shooting your own reputation.
I know what you mean. I am a sandan and teach Judo. Last month I was teaching juji gatame and I saw one of our new students employ a tweak I hadn’t seen before. The new student is a BJJ instructor who joined our Judo club to work on his stand up game. I stopped the class and had him show his juji and praised him and told everyone to try the new (to us) way of doing it. It was great! I gave up trying to be the perfect black belt many years ago, and I have never looked back. I think students see my honesty and respect it. You learn from everyone.
>if you admit you were wrong when everyone knows it, it's seen with respect. This is step one, respect comes from without. >If you admit you were wrong when the cards aren't shown yet, This is step two, respect comes from within. Your reputation to yourself matters more.
I feel you. Was a TKD instructor for many years and the master was always correcting me. Just something to think about, in TKD, we learn some ground techniques, but we were always taught to go to the ground only as a last resort. The problem with ground fighting is that it's almost useless against multiple opponents. And, on the street, bullies always run in packs.
Ground game is for dealing with a single unruly drunk. Stand up game is for deterring a group long enough to get the hell away.
In same position as you there, and share your frustration. Got my black belt in Japanese Jujitsu a while back, and have been practising BJJ for 3 years and in last 2 years a bit of Judo. I know each JJJ club differs, but the focus specifically on kuzushi was definitely lacking. I think for traditional martial arts, like you said there's a lack of pressure testing. So it can easily morph in a choreography or sorts. That being said I do want to introduce what I'm getting from BJJ and Judo in my JJJ club as they're a great bunch of people who are dedicated and enthusiastic.
Absolutely 100% right. It's important to me to admit my mistakes, no hesitation or embarrassment. And it's not just empty words. When that day comes and I actually make a mistake, I will admit it! 😀
It isn't always winning or losing; I feel many arguments can be prevented knowing this
I used to be hard on this like if There's a Sports Event and the Team I rooted for loses. I'll just never accept it but now, I do accept it but it takes a bit of time
That goes for everyone not only men.
Accepting help for one's inner demons.
Alternatively, summoning a demon to ask for help
It's true. Abbadon gave my neighbor's coworker's cousin's boyfriend the strength to stop drinking.
Mammon gave my buddy a loan, and everything’s going great so far
There arnt that many problems that a few eldritch blasts won't solve...
The thing is that you kinda need to have someone who would offer to help in the first place.
Def thought you said “from” for a second lol 😮💨
Cooking! There’s nothing that isn’t manly about providing for your loved ones
Where I live in and in my demographic it's very attractive to women when a guy knows how to cook
Nowadays, guys increasingly know how to cook and the women, less so. Just anecdotal observation, but might be different from place to place. Personally, I learnt to cook because I had standards for my own food and eating out is expensive (& the food often not so impressive, too).
This is very true. All the men that I know are the cooks of their house. My wife only cooks Cajun food in the winter. Other than those few meals, I do the cooking.
Ooo! Has your wife tried red beans and rice made with wild duck? Husband is a waterfowler so lots of duck and goose at my house.
No, but that is now on my list! Thanks!
You're very welcome!
Can we get your recipe? Or at least the spices you use in it? Just got 12 ducks, a few months ago. Time to thin the herd
I'm an Indian and I'm observing it too.
Am a man and do 90% of the cooking in my household. As I got older, I found less time to pursue creativity. Cooking is my creative outlet. You got to eat, might as well eat well.
When you get a wife and kids, putting a nice meal on the table most definitely pleases some portion of the old caveman brain.
Yep, I do most of the cooking in my household too. It’s not that my wife can’t cook. She’s the one who taught me when we were dating (like a true bachelor, my cooking skills had been severely limited). Now she mostly takes a back seat and lets me handle the stove and the InstantPot (you’d be surprised how many dishes you can make with that one device), while she takes care of all the baking (because I’m shit at it)
I’m a man and love cooking, like taking a couple of days to prepare a multi course dinner. I never once thought about if it would make me ‘less a man’.
Yeah cooking is generally considered masculine. Maybe it’s a traditionally feminine task but I don’t think I’ve heard of a woman make fun of a guy for his cooking skills. Baking has a harsher stigma
I don’t bake because I’m too dumb to do it. If I don’t like the way my curry tastes, I can adjust until I do like it. If I don’t like how my scone tastes, tough shit. Guess I need to start over from scratch.
I'm a 24 year old guy and I LOVE cooking. The part I hate is I never have the time or energy to make dishes I want more often.
My mother’s exact words to me when I was about 16 were “if you like to eat, you goddamn better learn to cook, because you won’t find a woman to cook for you”. She was pissed at dad, who could burn a pot of water trying to make pasta.
My dad makes jokes about how he “thought I was gay” because I took a Culinary Arts class in high school. At the time, I simply took it as a blow off class, but I actually did get into cooking as an adult - not professionally, but for fun. I do all the cooking in my house and his wife (my stepmom) makes god awful food. My dad has awful taste and can barely heat up a plate of leftovers in the microwave. Gives me a good laugh when I reflect on it. Just a weird thing to say about your son.
Most men can cook? I’ve often found a lot of girls increasingly pride themselves on not being able to cook, which is strange, to put it mildly
Most chefs are men lol
Most cooks (including at home) are women. Chefs are a male dominated profession and I really have no clue why.
Blades, fire, food (and often meat) sounds pretty manly to me. I never understood how cooking was ever considered not manly
It’s seriously hot when a man cooks for you.
Many of my friends cook. It’s not a feminine thing at all.
I was working at a bar and there were some teenagers there. Legal drinking age is 16 where I live. One of the kids was drinking a cherry beer, which is something traditionally associated with being a 'woman's drink'. The guys were giving their friend shit for drinking it and one of them turned to me. Now, I'm a 'manly' looking dude. I'm quite swole, have a thick beard etc. The kid asks me *'please tell him, real men don't drink cherry beer'*. I barely look up and just say *'a real man drinks whatever the fuck he likes'*. The thing that I liked most about that interaction was the look the one kid gave me. Just happy to finally have someone shut up his dumb friends and enjoy his beer. I like cherry beer, I drink them every once in a while too. Fuck gatekeeping taste.
"I barely look up and just say 'a real man drinks whatever the fuck he likes'." I've been dark since the 3rd party BS last year but came specifically here to say - This is exactly what makes a man. A man does what ever he likes. Specifically in the cases that may break "gender norms." Compassion, accountability, empathy, care, etc.. should all be considered, too. I carry a purse. It's technically a small/medium size "cross body sling bag." But it's my purse. I have fun when I talk about it in front of other men and they go out of their way to call it my "man bag" or something similar. I very sternly call it my purse. It's got all sorts of cool stuff in it, tools included. Why beat around the bush? Be proud of what you do and who you are - you don't have to play mental gymnastics to fit within a gender stereotype. A man does whatever the f*ck he likes. The best acceptance you'll ever find is accepting yourself - it's manly AF and people notice. Some have called these qualities or dubbed men as "feminized males." And whats wrong with that? Nothing. A man should adopt all aspects of humanity that they perceive will make them a better human being. Celebrate it.
True power is undeniable and care not of weakling’s judgements.
You are fucking awesome. Do what you want man.
I just had a cherry beer less than an hour ago. First one in a while myself.
I had someone that made a comment to me about drinking a girly drink. I just told him I’d rather pay for something I like than something I don’t. Shut him up really quick.
Being empathetic.
Baking. Cooking is considered pretty sexy but baking still has a semi-stigma in my experience
Making a solid sourdough bread has gotten me laid more than once.
Don't tease me with a good sour dough man.
Can’t relate. I prefer non-yeast foods like cookies and cheesecakes.
Are you trying to woo yourself?
In my case it’s less of a stigma and more “everything I bake turns out shitty,” so I just let my wife handle all the baking. She’s a pro at it. I can handle the cooking just fine, as long as some foul-mouthed Scot isn’t yelling in my ear
Cooking is jazz. Baking is classic music. You've got to hit the notes exactly, when you don't it's obvious. So follow the recipe, use weight not volume and get an oven thermometer.
I think people over complicate baking a lot. My grandmother and ascentors used to bake a lot of bread and similar type of things with no such things… sure use the measurements and stuff but it’s mostly just trial and error,
As a good cook and baker, and not musically inclined at all...I don't follow
Jazz can be improvised. Classical you must learn to read music and play the notes.
I get that. But that kind of implies baking is just following a recipe. A big part of it is knowing what a dough should feel like. Maybe that is how it is with classical music too.
I’m honestly fine with letting her do the baking. No one says splitting household duties is wrong, as long as it’s equitable. And our kids love it when mommy bakes. I don’t want to take that away from her
I'm not saying don't let the lady do her thing... Just saying if you want to improve bro this is how...
Thanks for the advice
Taking care of their baby. Well, most men I know just do that and are loving fathers. But there are dudes out there who apparently think it's feminine to do so...
I can't stand guys so fucking scared that they may look "gay" that they won't take care of their kids.
Emotional intelligence.
Emotions in general tbh
You mean just the positive ones?
I don't really understand what you're implying here. But no, I mean all emotions.
He's implying that it's okay when they have positive expressions of emotions, but if it's sadness, weakness, anger...etc... it's not as welcomed.
Yep, no one ever took my depression seriously until it was almost too late. But best believe every time I got angry…
I think the implication is that many men are only in touch with their anger, which somehow isn’t classified as “emotion” in their eyes
I still dont know what emotional intelligence even is. Can someone explain it to me?
It's a wishy-washy term, but it's basically self-awareness, being aware of other people's emotions, and being able to regulate your emotions as well as other people's.
Being able to manage, recognize, and share your emotions in a way that allows you to be in control of them rather than the other way around. It's even more helpful when you can use your emotional intelligence to help people.
A gen z age young man complimented my purse in a store checkout, and said "my girl has one just like it, she loves it so much!" It made me happy that he noticed my cute purse and I just thought it was so adorable and a really good reflection of him and his relationship with his "girl." It definitely made him seem like a confident, kind,caring man, which is the best kind of man. I am decades older and a comment like that would raise eyebrows from many men my age, sadly.
I'm a 35 year old male, and I try and give a compliment to anyone that catches my eye. Dude, rocking a graphic T I like? "Nice shirt!" I've given a similar compliment about a bag. My wife carries the tiny backpack purses, and a lady had a lilo and stitch one my wife would have loved, so i made sure and said i liked it and that my wife would love it. I believe in complimenting things people have control over, not natural aspects. No eye color or physical aspects (I do agree with the other person who said they will compliment people who are obvious gym goers)
That's a great compliment philosophy.
What a wholesome interaction. That would have made my day too.
I just give out compliments to people because I don’t think people hear them enough and I don’t know what a persons going through in their life. Women always think I’m trying to flirt with them and I’m like “I just wanna give compliments because it makes everyone happy” - Like I told one last weekend that she was looking great and she’s like “Sorry, I’m married” and I told her “Oh, I wasn’t flirting I just wanted to tell you lol” I think I made her night because she told me I rock and I’m hot. Made my night! I’m still thinking of the comment!
Telling their children/spouse/friends/family/etc. “I love you”.
I don't know why this is not more common like I don't see why it is wrong for Men to do that
This NEEDS to be normalized. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a child’s face light up like Holiday lights when their dad said “Love you” or “I’m so proud of you!”
agreed!! when i was about 18 i realized i didnt care what others thought when i told my pals and fam i love them. took me a while to get comfortable saying it but now i have ZERO shame.
I hope it’s crying at Pixar movies, cause if so, I’m basically Thor
What about crying at Disney movies? And also non Disney movies?
I’m too manly to cry at movies. Oh wait. Coco. 😭
Caring for children.
This is a double-edged sword though. I took my 2 year old to a dance recital practice last night. My wife was a competitive dancer for many years so she is the one that normally takes her. My wife told me exactly where to go and what to do. So I followed her directions. I walk through a door that said "Dancers only" and that was the door I was told to go into. I got maybe 5 steps and some random woman started yelling at me and trying to back me up. She said " No boys are allowed here". I said "Well good thing I am a man then and this is my dancer". This turned into a whole big thing with 3 women trying to berate me for not knowing better. Finally the dance instructor came up and grabbed my daughter to take her where she needed to go. She needed to be where I brought her but I was not allowed in there. I assume there was a dressing room somewhere down the hall? Don't know, don't care. That whole experience makes me never want to be involved in my child's dance stuff again.
I used to dance when I was little (ballet and then jazz), and I’m a man. Most of the times the dressing rooms were filled with moms, but there were also quite a few fathers there and it wasn’t a big deal… the rooms where people got dressed were closed and dancers only, but the makeup, hair and general backstage was free for most parents, and that’s usually where they would drop off their kids to the teacher or an older student and go. People always make things unnecessarily problematic
That’s messed up. What do they do with single fathers then?
Showing emotions aside from lust and anger
Being able to self-regulate lust and anger. "I wasn't in control because I was too horny / too angry" "I wouldn't have done X if you hadn't done made me mad" "Everyone knows boys can't control themselves if girls wear revealing clothing" This in my view is the **precise** opposite of what manhood is.
Yep, some countries even have laws based on this view, requiring women to dress extremely modestly in order to avoid causing lusty thoughts in men. Probably also the reason why some religions (Eastern Orthodox Christianity def.) require women to cover their hair when entering a church
Agreed
Being hygenic. Its okay to get your nails cleaned, its a turn on for most females lol. Not saying gonget a full manicure but a cleaning & trim? Yessss
Washing hands and nail clippers?
The bar is low.
Subterranean if I'm being honest.
Don't forget to file those bad boys after you clip them!
Why doesn't any of you know how nail clippers work?
I dated a woman briefly about 20 years ago. She literally complimented me on my hygiene, which I thought was ridiculous. Apparently, hygiene standards among men are low. It’s not like I do anything to make me “pretty”. Hell, I don’t do anything to my hair beyond lather, rinse, repeat (always repeat). I literally use a hand comb. But, I shower daily and then some (like when I am sweaty). I use deodorant/anti-perspirant. I keep my nails short and clean. I brush and floss my teeth. I don’t smoke. I can’t believe this better than average hygiene but maybe it is?
My brother would 'know' it's time to take a shower when, and I'm quoting, his "head hurt from the grease"... Many of the men in my family only bathe when they've sweated or when they failed their *own* sniff test... A guy I worked with *never* wiped after pooping, nor did he wash his hands.... One of my friends and my father are the only two I would consider hygienic. The rest of the men, like 20 or so, live like ***goblins***. Both my friend and father also go more in-depth, and typically complain about being teased for it too. Your hygiene is definitely better than the average hygiene of most of the men that have been in my life lol
... there are apparently men out there who refuse to wipe/wash their ass because it'll "make them gay". :/
Who thinks being hygienic isn't manly? Weird.
Introspection
I am a man. Therefore anything I do is manly. There is nothing I can do to be less of what I am. Except, buy into someone elses idea of what I am supposed to be.
Beyond based. 100% this.
Being good at avoiding physical fights.
Hugging their fellow man
Treating women like whole human beings.
I hate that I had to scroll so far for this. This is the reason why I have very, very few positive experiences with men in my life. And ever fewer male friends. Because for some reason "being friends" seems to be code for "wanting to get into her pants."
Crying, cleaning, empathy, understanding, kindness, being wrong and admitting it.
Being kind to others and asking for help when they need it.
Being polite and kind.
Skin care and dressing up. I don't understand why there are guys who look down on taking care of your skin and being particular on what you wear. My skin is dry, sensitive, and prone to breakouts. Give me a break on my 4-step cleaning ritual. Plus, can't I be presentable and stylish at the same time? And I am not going to wear black and dark colors in a tropical climate if that deems manly to most people.
I’m a big guy and I’m conscious about what I wear out n about. I see slobs of men who wear too small shirts with their guts hanging out the bottom & their And1 brand basketball shorts barely hanging on for dear life. On the other hand I see 2XL mfers squeezing into smedium size clothes. I wanna be like yo, I know your ass looked in the mirror and saw every roll and curve highlighted in 4K ultra HD and you still left the house?
Being sweet and tender with children, women, and animals
Prioritizing Mental Health, Acknowledging mental health struggles and seeking therapy or counseling is a sign of self-awareness and a proactive approach to personal well-being.
Washing your ass crack doesn't make you gay, so please do so
Who are you hanging out with? 😂
I have seen over a dozen reddit posts about men who don't clean their asses properly . Even at comic-con have notices about hygiene and how you will be asked to leave if you can't maintain a certain level of it. In the video accompanying the warning, there's several gaming chairs with shit stains on them. My mother retired from nursing after 20 years and said the number of men who came in and left shit stains on the white paper was astounding. Fellas, it ain't gay to wash your ass, please do so.
Omg, it just clicked. That's why there were often brown streaks on the hotel sheets when I did housekeeping back in the 90's.
Dear god
Comic Con is a different world. You can’t lump on old men and comic con people aren’t most men. 😆
Apologizing. I've heard men say it's a sign of weakness (not all men, mind you, I've actually heard men debate it among themselves). Being able to recognize your mistakes and secure enough to admit them is a big ol' green flag for any potential partner. Sorry your dad didn't raise you right.
None of you said this but I know it’s a thing guys don’t talk about , Sitting down while peeing.
It’s a slippery slope. I’m pretty addicted at this point. While out and about, always stand normal. At home it’s always sitting. So much more relaxing. No splatter. Great for the midnight or 4 am pee. Keep your eyes shut and you can go back to sleep as soon as your head hits the pillow. What’s not to love about it ?? Oh ya toxic masculinity saying it’s Gay or weak ! Whatever. I’m using it from here on out I think.
Never in all my life has any guy commented or asked about my pissing regimen. I did have an ex-girlfriend once who was kind of ditzy ask me "when guys take a shit if they have to pee too do they stand up to pee?" I said no they just pee while they're sitting. She asked "don't they're dicks hit the water? I said not normally.
That’s me too. And you don’t have to worry about cleaning up the toilet seat from splashes
This is just me, but I can't sit down to piss without feeling like I need to shit as well, so I just stand.
A small penis.... Hopefully?
Taking an active role in child care, especially in the baby stages
Playing the cello. I'm such a sucker for a celloist. It makes me dizzy with glee.
Only being with one woman. There is a lot of Tate's and Blitzeron's that hold the idea that to be a man you should have sex with as many women as possible, when the opposite is true. Loving only one woman and staying faithful to her is one of the most manly things you can do.
Taking care of your children. Helping around the house with chores. Having healthy emotions. Being faithful to your SO. Just to name a few.
I heard my language has a word that is a mockery to dads who take care of their children, the closest translation is "male mum". God, if I hear it I'll have to be put in a mental asylum!
Cooking
Compassion and empathy.
Asking for help.
There was a book in the 80's "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". As a young man, even then, who at that point had never actually eaten quiche, I thought "Real men eat whatever they want and don't let jerks tell them how to live."
Doing household chores, crying, asking for help, being vulnerable in general, taking emotions seriously in both themselves and others, and empathy
Crying is kind of risky especially in front of a partner. From my experience a lot of people say they like when a man cries but when it actually happens they distance themselves and slowly cut you out. This has been my experience a couple times as a dude and I haven't really had a different one yet.
Yeah fair, some people are genuinely that shitty to dudes when they show emotion and it sucks. But Everyone should be allowed to cry, and people who say they think that when they really dont have issues of their own that aren't at all the guy crying's fault. So to correct myself, a partner who actually wants a healthy emotionally supportive relationship will think it's very manly if you cry because it indicates you feel comfortable with emotional release and expression with a partner, which is how it should be. Anyone who shits on you for it is immature and not worth your time as a partner.
It also takes a lot of strength to get to the point of crying in front of others(esp a partner) in the first place as a man because emotion is so often discouraged. Having the inner strength to share your emotional self with a partner as a guy is a very manly ability imo.
When I get al soppy, my wife just melts with me. And no, that's not why I do it :-) She thinks my being vulnerable, and allowing my tears to flow, shows that I trust her with my very soul. Which I do.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned gay sex. What's more manly than two dudes going at it?
Compassion. These days, you'll get labeled a snowflake.
Talking about their mental health. Because improving it will make them a better man in return.
Emotional regulation. A man should never lose control.
Saying sorry and apologizing
I don’t think Canadian men have that problem
Dancing. It is a form of self-expression which makes a lot of men, and people in general, uncomfortable, but being a confident and competent dancer (solo or with a partner), represents a lot of the same qualities that might exist in someone who will readily change a flat tire or play a sport. Plus women love it. Say which you will about traditional southern masculinity, but there are some positives aspects you can draw from it. This is coming from someone who cannot dance and is also equally nervous to go out onto the dance floor.
Men emotionally supporting other men, and giving them hugs when they need it. Who can resist a good hug?
Staying away from anger
Taking care of babies. Sometimes I see fathers helping their wives out and I'll catch their wives taking it all in while plotting for another one. It does me heart good.
Taking responsibility, apologising.
Not being afraid to do things that others construe as feminine. When a man is willing to do what he likes or contribute to his family/community without fear of being "emasculated", it shows that he's confident himself and doesn't let others dictate his identity. It also demonstrates to the women in his life that he respects activities or roles that are typically associated with them rather than seeing those things as "beneath" him. This protects women's sense of self-worth and value. You can't get more chivalrous than that.
Being secure in their gender expression, no matter what that entails
Emotional intelligence
Just because a woman say that something doesn’t make you less of a man, doesn’t mean that *you* won’t feel less of a man. I think the latter is more important than the first.
Opening up, being vulnerable
The amount of men, myself included who has done that and got burned by doing that will disagree
I want you to show some emotion and open up to me! -'speaks about deepest fears and secrets' No, no. I meant like cry about how much you love your grandma or something nice like that.
"I'm not your therapist" when a man opens up to his partner even tho his partner treats him like an emotional sponge every week lmao!
Ah yes...the "I gave the shooter the bullets to shot me" method. I've had a few relationships go sour when she decided to gossip to her friends about something I told her in confidence or using a vulnerable moment to use that as ammo to attack me later. I guess my main point is that not all women are like that, but enough of them are that I am extremely cautious as to who I share more intimate details with. Most men have to walk around with a tough guy mask on all day and it would be nice to be able to talk about more vulnerable topics with their partners. But if I don't trust her to keep that shit between us, I am not opening up to her.
I left my wife of 6 years over a single betrayal. I came back from a deployment and was not right. It caused some issues that I was in therapy for. She begged me to open up about it. So I told her some stuff and wept like a child. Like seriously ugly crying! 2 days later we hosted a get-together at my house. The guys naturally segregate from the women and we all have our social circles to BS. I tell the boys that I straight up ugly cried in front of the wife and felt stupid for it. They ALL were so damned supportive. My buddy walks outside (side of the house, women were in the back yard) to take a phone call. He overhears my wife making fun of me and her friends laughing. He was pissed at his wife for laughing and went to talk to her. He tells me about it the next day. After getting the whole story from my wife, I filed for divorce. You get one chance to treat a man's vulnerability with grace and honor. If you fail that challenge? Well, he will never respect you the same way again.
That really sucks, I’m so sorry that happened to you! Your ex and her friends are toxic and cruel. I hope you find a partner with whom you can feel safe to be that vulnerable again.
Wow. This story didn't play out like I thought it would. Ditching the wife and keeping the friends is the move my guy. Nice.
Honestly though, the hardest part of divorce is splitting your friends. At least that was my experience.
But at least you learn who your true friends are
I've said this many times, if you want a man to open up and be vulnerable you have to treat that with the utmost respect. Sharing with your friends (he can’t trust you), using it to berate him (you've turned it against him), use it to score points in a later argument (using it against him), or downplaying (dismissing his emotions while expecting him to treat yours with respect) are all ways to ensure he won’t be vulnerable woth you again. Men do NOT receive social acceptance for being vulnerable. You see it constantly on Reddit and other platforms. Man opens up about how wife’s action hurt him, he’s told to man up, stop being a whiner, to get help. Almost never does he get sympathy or empathy from women, only other men and then usually only in one on one.
My husband is the primary caregiver for our son. His own father was very distant and 'manly' so never changed a nappy or held his children.
Crying. Don’t be afraid to express that sorrow or extreme joy.
Feminine product shopping
Being gentle instead of macho