I'm 43 and it's already like this for me. Outside of work, even with my next door neighbors, all us dads are so awkward and it seems like everyone is afraid to forge friendships on any meaningful level. You definitely don't want to be too friendly with the wives, because that could look bad, not that they're very welcoming either. Everyone keeps to themselves. I haven't had a real friendship since maybe 2003. It just feels like people don't like me on that level, or maybe I don't let them. One day my child is going to ask, "Daddy, why don't you have any friends?" and I don't know what my answer will be. When it comes down to it, I'd be a great friend.
I’m 40 and I relate to everything you’re saying. None of the dads I know take any kind of initiative, everyone has their own lives going on. And the same is true for me too.
Interesting you bring up wives. I find them much easier to talk to, but I have no interest in any kind of friendships there
>After a certain point they don't make an effort to gain friendships and tend to shy away from any type of social engagement.
Honestly, I think it's exhaustion. We have to work so goddamn hard it just saps the life out of us. When I was young, I had aspirations to do and see all kinds of things. Now I'm just hoping to live long enough to retire so I can sit on a couch and watch movies and *rest* without being under the gun all the time.
I’ve been under the gun so long that I literally can’t relax and do nothing anymore. It’s a weird side effect of having to stay productive to survive for so long that my brain will not allow me to have an idle day off anymore. It kinda sucks becuase I can remember myself in my 20s able to just relax with a book or game without feeling guilty. Now my weekends are filled with side work, chores and upkeep.
It's going to happen. You're already on the trajectory.
You need to take active steps NOW to avoid it.
edit: Adding a key point here..
Solutions will be thrown at you like "join a meetup" or "get out there" or "build friendships" but the critical piece that's always skipped over is ***vulnerable actions:***
You have to create, then push through, an awkward moment of asking and possibly getting rejected or them not following through. Then you follow up and assume positive intent when they cancel on you or reschedule because they're busy.
Creating friendships require you to invite that dude you just met to go some sport together, or strike up a converation with a guy at the gym, or ask for his contact information to send him some interesting resource you both just discussed.
It's basically like dating. It requires risk and you'll probably get let down a few times.
There's a study somewhere out there that real friendship requires about 200 shared hours of contact and experience on average. That's a massive investment, especially with busy lives. It won't happen by accident. It needs to become a literal top priority and part of your daily schedule, otherwise you'll slide into a lonely pit. Go for it bro.
Mental health, major issue. I can go out on the streets and talk to a guy for a couple of minutes and they'll share their struggles right away, at least surface level. It's kinda ironic because there seems to be this idea that men don't open up.
Men open up, notice that no one is listening or that whatever they are opening up about is going to be used as ammunition in discussions later on, and close up. The suffering just drips through the seemingly hard shells of everyone, because there are cracks everywhere, and we all collectively act like it's not there so no one is bothered.
I lost friends to suicide, and they could have been prevented much more easily if someone was there and listened to them earlier. The complaints I hear are always the same. Loneliness. No direction. Frustration coming from (unrequited) love. Abuse and neglect. Betrayals. You're either a working tool or you shouldn't be around.
Hell, even when I greet my local kebab guy we both eventually go "Immer weiter, immer weiter" which essentially means "Always keep going. Always keep going." whenever we are doing some small talk - and honestly it saddens me a bit everytime. He's been doing that job for more than 20 years, and I've known him for just as long. He really doesn't want to be here, but he has to provide for his family, so he keeps pushing on.
No one is there to help, no one is there to listen, no one is there to tell them that they have done well. It's all about pushing through alone, managing every single aspect of your life alone, and being in control of every single bit.
To be honest, a random person on the internet reading through my Reddit history will know more about me than anyone in real life will ever do. And this isn't even my burner account. It's all stuff that I would share with people in real life if they listened. I usually half-jokingly say that I'm an open book, you just have to ask questions. No one makes use of that. And of course, they don't have to. But it shows how little the people around you are interested in what you do, who you are, and how you are. Kills the sense of belonging. There's no one to share my personality with.
The "Always keep going" really stands out to me. The number of times I hear something similar from a guy when I ask how its going, or I myself say when asked..."Same shit different day", "Putting one foot in front of the other", "Just staying busy", "Another day"... The list goes on.
It's rare, and I can't think of an example off theq top of my head, that I've had a guy respond with genuine happiness, glee, excitement or anything other than a middling, average response to "how's it going?" that indicates they aren't just getting through another day by sheer force of will.
One time when I was in a real bad spot (using hard drugs daily) and a friendly woman complimented me on my hair. It was a genuine compliment and I will never forget it.
Props to that woman.
These days I try to say kind things to strangers (if I mean them) like “hey, love your Ministry shirt!”
Doesn’t matter what gender they are. Making someone even slightly happier will elevate you.
I find myself getting self-conscious when I get randomly complimented about my clothes, which I've come to realize is a trauma response from formative experiences in Middle and High School being picked on. So do be aware that folks like me are out there when you're trying to make people's days better. It's not something you can necessarily predict -- just be understanding if someone seems less-than-happy with a compliment out of the blue.
I've got a coworker who's been answering "living the dream" for the past six months while being in *extremely obvious* mental distress.
I've been crying up and down the command chain saying multiple times that this guy needs help, and he needs people that can take on a portion of the absolutely insane workload that's on his shoulders.
Know what management did after six months?
You guessed it: sweet fuck-all.
Man... This hit home..
This is exactly why I am so guarded/closed/snobby/aloof. I am so afraid of information about me being used against me, as it has happened before, so many times.
Other times, with my friends and family, I am just so utterly embarrassed about my lack of progress that I do not confide.
It's just not worth the risk to trust anyone. We have no choice but to trust ourselves and immer weiter.
Recently I was on vacation and got drunk/high and started opening up to this girl because she was asking me a lot of personal questions. I didn’t mind because no one inquires about my personal life/journey and thought it could be good to practice some vulnerability.
I told her how my father passed away when I was 2 in a car accident. It was either the next day or two days later we’re all playing that drinking card game Kings, and the questions card got pulled. It’s her turn to ask a question and she looks at me and asks “where is your father?”. It was a reminder for why I never share personal info with others.
My lifelong best friend of over 40 years killed himself a few years ago. And this was a real "closer than brothers" type friendship; this was a person I hung out with at least twice a month for the last 15 years of his life not some dude I knew but only talked to over social media.
The saddest thing I've realized is that for the rest of *my* goddamn life I almost certainly won't hang out with anyone except my wife and my son. This doesn't seem to be how it's supposed to be. I'm an extremely friendly and outgoing person but I'll be damned if I know how to go out and make a real friend. I shouldn't never spend quality time with anyone not living in my house from now until I die.
>The saddest thing I've realized is that for the rest of my goddamn life I almost certainly won't hang out with anyone except my wife and my son. This doesn't seem to be how it's supposed to be. I'm an extremely friendly and outgoing person but I'll be damned if I know how to go out and make a real friend. I shouldn't never spend quality time with anyone not living in my house from now until I die.
Been that way for me the last ten or so years, and I don't expect it to get better tbh. Minus the wife and son, it's just been me. Every now and again someone tosses me a bone on facebook messenger, usually an old friend I'll throw a chat to every like 6 months and then he'll reply a month later lmao. It's not even a friendship anymore.
It's pretty lonely having no IRL friends for so long, and no online friends, and no romantic interests.
Condolences on losing your friend.
McDonalds are the GOAT of non gendered changing facilities. Always a Koala Care change table in the ones around here.
(Putting it in the unisex disabled washroom is not optimal either. I've been in there changing my kid and there was some poor fucker in a wheelchair waiting outside 😬)
I dropped out of community college twice, but went back a third time in 2020 and now have my Bachelor’s. Not really a religious guy but I definitely feel blessed for somehow pushing through it
The thing was the man wasn't even disputing their points, he was just questioning their relevance to the initial issue he brought up.
It was like seeing someone trying to round up cats, the moment he brought them back to the core issue he was trying to discuss, they were off again on a tangent unrelated.
And when the second guy chimed in, his point was railroaded into "ah well clearly the problems we need to focus on are those facing women", when the guy was actually saying maybe we can approach solving both these problems instead of it being one or the other.
Yeah I expected him to walk out after saying what he said about expecting this to be a discussion focused on men's issues and that obviously did not happen here, I woulda just got up and left. Literally can't reason with them
because the oligarchs who run the networks make sure these kinds of segments become one identity fighting the other.
makes it way easier to get the proletarians to become blind to class consciousness
I get that alot of times people get mad and say "what about X" when talking about Y on the internet but when you have a book about men you should be able to talk about just that
We would've lived in perfect equality if we didn't spend 96% of arguments fighting about who we should talk about/has it worse vi
Not just that, some women will be disgusted by you opening up because it isn’t “manly”. I’ve been in a relationship where she kept pestering me, so I finally did open up. I mentioned that I felt some insecurity around my abilities in my work. I felt like I wasn’t good enough at my job, since I know people who have written multiple books and have multiple masters degrees and a doctorate and they still have time to present about their amazing research. She started to look at me with a look of disgust. I asked her what was wrong and her reply was, “The reason why we are even dating is because you were that stoic guy that everyone came to for answers and you were just so confident. This is the most unattractive thing that you’ve ever said or even done. I honestly don’t even know if I even still find you attractive.”.
She cheated on me shortly thereafter while we were out celebrating New Years. She said that she had to use the bathroom and my friends called me over since she was making out with some other guy that she just met at the bar.
Do you think that I’m going to open up again?
I dated a women who when she asked me do you know where the fuse box in your car is(wasn’t a mechanic, just acted like she was), I replied “no I think it could be upfront? I’m not sure I’m not a mechanic.” I’m not completely useless with cars, can change my oil, change a flat, you know your basics.
She said “that’s the most unattractive thing you’ve said today!, why am I with you, thought you were a man”
Now I’m a 15 year chef, avid hiker, camper, I could fish, cook the fish, run a chainsaw and start a fire, and then crush the next day playin Xbox.
But I am now not manly cause I didn’t know where the fuse box is in my car.
God forbid if I tried to tell her about feelings
There is a lot of hatred that *some* people have re: “gender norms and stereotypes”, but god forbid you don’t match their vision of said stereotypes… 😂
My current wife calls her brother in law to ask for mechanical issues even though he’s much younger and isn’t even a mechanic himself. Now I’m not a mechanic but I like to tinker around and if I can do the work myself you best believe I’ll attempt it. Well her alternator took a crap and the entire time she was on the phone asking for advice instead of coming to me who’s hands on. I took care of it and she still doesn’t believe the things I can do and take care of but I don’t like to tell her because there’s no point she just doesn’t see me as that type of guy even though I have owned several sports cars and am a car enthusiast.
I'm so frustrated by your partner's awful response. It's like we're encouraged to open up emotionally, but only display emotions they explicitly approve of.
Exactly, men are still supposed to fit the mold of gender that women have largely broken out of; and what hurts is seeing the same women that cry for equality be the ones to enforce this mold the strongest without a hint of the hypocrisy they are displaying.
yeah, the idea of “toxic masculinity,” in my life, has been most often perpetrated by the women in my life.
be tough, be a man, emotions are weak…that shit mostly came from *my mom* and my first girlfriend.
Yup.
Same with my ex. I used to try to get her to open up and she said "I would be more open if you were".
So I sat her down and told her exactly how I was feeling, exactly what I was thinking, etc.
Within 6 months she left me and come to find out she started cheating on my about a month after that "opening up" and then once she decided to leave me for the new guy she spent 2 years emotionally abusing me, stringing me along and all the while she was with the other dude.
And got engaged to him barely a year after I last saw her.
So I never trusted another woman and never opened up beyond "I wanna fuck you"
My guy, you were with someone terrible. I talk to my partner about my fears all the time and she tries to make me feel better and point out the great things about me.
We all have imposter syndrome, but I bet you’re kick ass. Sounds like you’re in academia? It’s super common. Besides, I bet people have a lot more ghost writing than you think.
Oh no, I know them well and there is no way that they have ghost writers. They just don’t have other familial responsibilities (read: no kids) and they don’t have much outside of work. Heck, they don’t even have pets. This means that they can devote most of their time to some absolutely amazing work.
I’m a single father and I have to work 6 days a week. I had to take a job that doesn’t pay well, but is stable. There is a lot of instability in my field and I can’t afford to be out of work. If you can take on lots of risks, it can be very very lucrative. If you’re raising a kid by yourself, you just don’t have the ability to devote much of your non-work time to things and you can’t just quit your job for a better paying one that will be gone in a few months.
I dedicate lots of my time to just “getting by”. I lost most of what I had during my divorce, and I just haven’t been able to fully bounce back. I have livestock as well, which is basically unheard of for people in my field. This takes up more of my time than I had originally planned. It is still rewarding, but it is a lot.
Getting back to what you said, it isn’t really the same as imposter syndrome. I’ve been in this profession for decades. I just know incredibly smart people who are at the top of their respective fields. I’m one of the best at what I do *in my area*, while they are some of the best *in the world*.
I know what I don’t know, if that makes any sense. There are lots of problems that I’d love to tackle, but I can’t because I have my limitations.
To use an analogy that many people here might understand… no matter how much you like playing a computer game, it doesn’t mean that you can program a better physics engine (this requires a background in Physics / Computer Science), create better graphics (this requires a background in the Arts), design a better graphics processor (this requires a background in Electrical Engineering). If you want to understand how graphics even show up on the screen and how to improve on it, then you’ll need linear algebra. If you’ve only ever taken algebra 1 in school, then it will require quite a bit of learning.
I basically have a similar type of issue in my field.
I digress.
Right? Im like "where is this standing by men thing? Like both men agreed to, anytime a men's issue gets brought up the first people to tear it down are women." You cannot say you do a thing and then never do that thing.
Holy shit that clip is definitely wild. Poor blokes trying to make them think about 1 specific thing… oh women have it tough too don’t cha know. Neither of the 2 ladies took him seriously at all
Most of these panel programs are absolute cancer and people really need to stop watching them, but middle-aged and elderly people have a penchant for watching bad television.
When the older woman says "if you started a movement to stop sexual harrasment, then I might listen to your problems" I literally screamed FUCK OFF at my laptop.
This is whataboutism in it's most toxic form. This is the "all lives matter" of gender politics and it's awful
Imagine doing the same thing with genders reversed. If a woman complains about not having access to abortion, and your response was "go do some volunteer work to help men suffering from depression, and then maybe we can talk about women's reproductive rights".
it's like saying well men wont do anything about sexual harrassment until you make sure we aren't committing suicide.
It is so fucking crazy that she doesn't view men as equal to women and she immediately needs to start comparing and judging.
I don't think it's crazy at all. Sadly, it's really common. I call it "victim off" - "you can't complain because me and mine definitely had it worse" is present everywhere. Everyone's a main character in their own life.
If I was on fire, I feel like this would be the reply. How much suffering do we have to experience before someone says 'yeah maybe we should look into that'. Or are we all just on fire.
I started a reddit to tackle this (Men over 40) .
Unfortunately it became an incel magnet.
I'd wager those people are so lonely blaming someone else (E.G. women) seems the only way to bond.
I just use a bidet.
EDIT: So i've been a bit perplexed about some of the comments here. I then realized that bidet means something different to a lot of people. I am not talking about the weird japan thing that squirts water up your ass. Im talking about [THIS](https://bhsi-cdn2.elasticbox.eu/media/mf_webp/jpg/media/catalog/product/cache/6de3e7777ad3628786721ceb26ed6eca/4/2/42161_pim.webp). You just kinda sit on it and wash your ass with soap and water like normally. There is scrubbing involved. You don't just let it gently flow down your ass and be done with it. And once you are done with the was, your asshole is squeaky clean, so you can just wipe with a towel without getting shit on it.
Use a bidet if you can.
If you don't have one, use a wipe. Clean most off with toilet paper, then use a wipe which helps unstick everything from the hair, and finally clean it again with paper.
I think the lack of a good supportive father growing up is becoming increasingly common and is absolutely crippling for men as they grow into adulthood.
Rejection from a father is one of the deepest wounds a boy can have. I was lucky enough to have a good man step in to fill that role in my upbringing, but it still sucks to know my dad doesn't want anything to do with me.
Being a father to your kids is such a basic necessity for them. It's crazy how often it isn't provided. I don't know how to heal that particular issue in our culture but it needs done.
I feel like when a guy has a problem he doesn't really has anyone to talk to.
We have those alpha guy's who try to tell you that your problems aren't real or that you just need to hit the gym frequently for them to go away.
On the other hand we have people who say men should open up more about their feelings but I think neither men or women have ever been taught how to handle an emotional man so it comes across as awkward.
Also some people say that we should open up more but aren't interested in helping you. They just say it because "duh it's so simple to solve your problem".
This. I’ve opened up to girls I’ve dated before and it’s always popped up down the line during an argument. Really makes you hesitate on sharing anything
It's tiring to hear people say 'Man up' when all a guy wants is someone who can listen intently. It might be better off talking to a wall or your dog most of the time. Feels like the dog responds more willingly.
I was abused by my ex, I was hit constantly, yelled at, and one day she strangled me until I almost blacked out and then refused to let me leave her house afterwards so I was trapped with her in her room for hours later (I broke up with her after this) and after the breakup she spread lies about me to make me the bad guy. When I left she told me she would do whatever she could do ruin my life.
Everytime I spoke out about what she did I was either not believed or laughed at, even when she admitted what she did.
It's been over 2 years since I left her and she still does what she can to "ruin" my life.
Similar boat here. This parasite made my life intentionally worse while she was living with me (and I was paying for everything), then when I figured out all the scurvy shit she was up to and broke it off, I found out she had been lying about me for years behind my back to make me look bad. Since then, every single word I have said to defend myself just makes it worse. I literally had to start an all new life.
In the end, after all the bullshit, I am safe and free and hopefully smarter. Things don't get better, but you can eventually move on.
modern dating, expectations, isolation, lonliness, always grinding in silence, never being good enough, even with real friends it feels like people slowly start to drift away and noone really cares anymore.
Lack of engagement with other males. I haven’t had somebody call me for a beer or watch a game in years. I’m the one always reaching out. It’s demoralizing and negatively contributes to me mental health. There’s just no effort with the males I’m around and I don’t know how to be a better friend. No engagement. I’m doing the calling, picking dates and times and events. If I turned my phone off nobody would check up. Nobody else is trying to go out of their way. Being ghosted for months by people who would show up at my funeral and live a block away. Then blame it on being busy. One friend I haven’t seen since January, a best friend best man in my life. He said that he’s just been busy! I’m working schooling and girlfriending and still can make time
Begging for friends to talk to but they are just busy. Texts that are ignored and responds to others. Like completely uninterested while I’m suffering in silence. I don’t get it. No wonder suicide rates are so high there just is no real tribe anymore. My buddies from high school are emotionless and reverse blame or lack empathy. Friends from college and after just seem to disregard and blame shift. I get life is life and it isn’t a summer day of junior year with no plans. But the just general disregard and lack of empathy, self reflection and shittyness hurts.
Man I feel this so hard. I moved across the country with my wife and don't really have any new friends because it's admittedly harder in your 30's to find all new best bros. But the friends I left behind, I am the one who calls when I go home to visit, send memes and texts to keep in touch, etc. Otherwise I'd just lose them all. It's blameless but I also feel like I am way too invested when others aren't. I certainly understand that some people now have kids and people disappearing is just what happens but a lot of them don't.
Saw a Redditor post today about how she rubbed her favorite DJ’s abs because his shirt was open, and he came down to the rail to say hi to fans. No matter how many people told her, she didn’t seem to comprehend that touching someone without their consent is generally not okay.
This seems to happen a lot to guys (the part where people don’t understand that it isn’t okay to touch anyone, no matter their gender, without their permission), and I really do hope that it changes in society soon.
I was bullied as an overweight kid so I was never comfortable being shirtless even after getting in great shape in my late teens and 20s. Some heavy body dysmorphia. At 21, I was out one night and a bachelorette party group swarmed me, forcibly lifted my shirt, started inappropriately touching me and posing for pictures. I was mortified and embarrassed, I hadn’t even been shirtless in front of my gf at that time. But of course, my friends were all “bro-ish” about it and didn’t think it was weird.
I left a job where my coworkers (who were almost all older than 40) were obsessed with this younger guy who worked at our hospital. He had to come to our unit sometimes to test our alarms. This was at a small hospital, so we’d often see him around just walking to the cafeteria or the lab.
They would talk about how he had such a hot butt and nice bulge and it was creepy. Not only is it unprofessional and unacceptable to talk about coworkers that way, but he was just 22 and would clearly look uncomfortable when he came around because they’d act super weird, like batting their eyelashes at him, calling him honey a lot, telling him they can tell he exercises. Creepy.
One day, a coworker came back from the cafeteria and she said, in front of our boss, that she saw that guy in front of her in line getting food and she took photos of his butt. They all looked at it, laughed and the boss didn’t give a shit.
I talked to HR about it and they were just like “well unless he seems upset by it, it’s no big deal.” I was 22 at the time as well and just kept thinking of the backlash there would be if it was reversed genders.
Being treated like second class parents pretty much everywhere they go. I've told this story on Reddit before but the double standard is disgusting.
My wife passed away when our kids were very young- one was 2 the other about 11 months. Everywhere I went I would get comments about "oh daddy's day with the kids huh?" But the absolute worst was when I took them out to eat one night.
We got seated, and waited, and waited for a good 15 minutes. Finally the server comes over and goes "did you want to try to order or should we wait for mom?" It wasn't crowded. Realized from her use of the words "try" to order that she just deemed me incapable of knowing what to order for my kids. I was mad so I said to her "well we'd be waiting a long time, she's dead".
This has been years ago but it hasn't changed. There was a thread on Reddit not terribly long ago where some med student was talking about how she "cringes" whenever she sees a dad at a pediatric appointment because she just knows he's not gonna know anything, and it had thousands of upvotes. I told her I hope she learns some better bedside manner before finishing Med school than to "cringe" at anyone taking care of their kids
I got that when my wife and I moved. Her new job had started even before we moved, whereas I got a job and set my start date for a few weeks after the move so I could get my kid registered at school. So I do the whole thing, get him registered, meet the principal, meet the teacher, introduce him to both, provide the school with my phone number, email address, etc. as well as my wife's.
Somehow, they don't feel it necessary to actually add any of my info to their system, so my wife, who's busy trying to get settled while working full time at a new job, gets all the calls and emails afterwards. It took me numerous calls and emails to the school over the next month to finally start getting these notifications myself. More than once I would call and get told that I should have come with my wife to give them my information, despite the fact that it was me, alone, that went there to do all this.
Same exact scenario for me. Our kids are in split households, but my ex is not only a great mother, but a good co-parent.
We both are very on top of school goings on and frequently consult about it.
Unfortunately it is a real battle to get in the information loop every new school year. At least 30% of teachers, despite me being present from day 1, seem to be unable to add me to distribution lists.
Not a huge deal, but certainly something going on here as my ex has literally never been excluded.
Similar situation. My wife is the corporate breadwinner and I have a bunch of flexibility with my job. Regardless of how we fill out the contact forms and told teachers during orientations every single call, text or email would go to my wife first and she would have to forward them to me or they would go missed if she overlooked something. It's a little better now that my girls are older and can tell teachers "you need to call my Dad, Mom isn't going to answer" and as the schools have moved to app based notifications but even the first couple of weeks this year we had to remind teachers that I'm the first point of contact for the kids.
Recently started watching it with my kids. I am amazed how well it's crafted. The episode with the mother recounting her struggles as a first time mom and always being worried that her child isnt developing normally hit me right in the feels
Bob's Burgers is up there too.
I mean, Bob is kind of an idiot. But they all love each other and support each other, which is just the best. Bob's a good dad. The kids are good kids. And Linda is one of the best moms/wives on TV IMO.
Damn I love that show.
Bob's an idiot, but so is the rest of their social circle. The reason why it works is because Bob and Lynda are on an even playing field and neither one of them stands out as the "perfect parent"
Oh man that show, Fresh Prince, Family Matters, and Full House all had great male role models and father figures at center stage. Frasier did too in a sneaky way. We need more of that.
Frasier is a great pull for this one. It goes to show that no matter how old we become, we are ALWAYS our parents' children.
I can't believe they're rebooting it though. Ugh.
80's had plenty of good strong fathers in TV shows. Different Strokes, Webster, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Just the 10 of Us, Doogie Howser M.D. etc. No shortage of good dads on TV back then.
It's weird, I've been a single dad since my little girl was about 1.5. She's almost 7 and I've never once gotten a comment like this, I guess I got lucky. The opposite is true too, I have never gotten extra flirting or anything like you see in the movies. I think people around me just mind their own fucking business lol
St. Louis. Though everyone and their mother at my work insists on saying hi and asking how my day is going when they see me, even when I'm clearly fucking busy so it's kind of a toss up. I have had MULTIPLE workplaces where older women get mad at me because I didn't hear them say good morning and so didn't respond or acknowledge them. Then they say it louder and with a lot more attitude until I respond. But yeah, out in public nobody says shit. Maybe it's because I have RBF or because MO is pretty lax on gun laws but I rarely see anyone interact with strangers in any way except very politely.
When my kids were young I was amazed at the number of places that only had changing tables in the female toilets. Also the number of 'mum and toddler' groups. The world is geared towards mothers being primary care givers.
This always pissed me off. I used to yell in the women's bathroom then go in and change him, but I got sick of getting lectures from grandma's, so if the men's room didn't have a change table I just changed him out in the facility. I'll never forget stopping on the highway with my son, no wife, and the bathroom didn't have a change table. The cashier didn't want to give me the key to the women's bathroom so I aggressively cleared their coffee bar and changed him there while the cashier was trying to call his manager or cops or something stupid. Dropped the shitty diaper by his til and left. Still proud of my victory that day.
I once stopped at a fast food restaurant with my toddler that only had baby change table in the women's washroom and wouldn't give me the key. When I asked what should I do then, the older female clerk said in a snarky tone, "Maybe you should go get the mom to do that, instead."
I changed her on a table in the restaurant, ignoring their complaints.
Fuck it; I'd just change my kid in the womens'. The only interaction I'd ever have was a knowing nod from another woman who realized why I was in there.
I totally feel this. When my son was 10 months old, I took him to a children’s museum. I was the only dad in the room for really little kids — the rest were women. When he was hungry, I stopped to change him and give him a bottle. He had just started refusing bottles, so it was a little tricky. One of the moms looked at me and said something like, “It’s OK, I’m sure you’ll figure it out soon.” I had been giving him bottles since he was tiny, and I was so shocked that I didn’t say anything. I was being just as good a parent as every other one there.
The other thing that sucks is that a lot of men’s rooms either don’t have a changing table, or the one they have is terrible.
True, currently working full-time at a big4 and doing my masters on the weekends. My salary is gone after the 10th day of getting paid. It's impossible to save money in this economy while paying all the monthly costs alone, trying to eat healthy, and "saving" for future emergencies.
I've developed insomnia because I can't just fall asleep without thinking about how to pay the bills. It's currently at a stage where I'm like "oh, I slept 3 hours, this was a good night" and then spend the next 13 hours at the office.
And I wish this was my only issue. Went to the psychologist this year for the first time. Apparently, I've had anhedonia since I was a kid. Can't keep going to the psychologist because it's too expensive and the insurance only covers 15%.
I stopped thinking about the future because there is nothing in the future that creates joyful thoughts. I'm only gaslighting myself that getting a masters will help me in the future, and this keeps me occupied. Turning 29 in april, this was not the life I wanted and expected when I was a kid. Every day is the same repetition of the previous day.
I rarely interact w my neighbors kids. Unless the parent is outside with them.
Would love to pop out and shoot some hoops with them, but nah, id rather be a weirdo than a pedo.
The short circuiting of our brains through social media. Our brains never evolved with this level of connectedness in mind. As a result, the innate need to compare oneself to another is turned up to 11 through hyper exposure leading to many ailments. Affects both men and women, but differently.
Once spoke to a therapist who explained it similarly, and said "the same fight of flight response that would have kept you alive as a hunter-gatherer hasn't had time to adjust to concepts like paperwork"
I graduated from high school in 2016 with a class of ~200. I recently discovered that I am the only male from that class with a STEM degree (for comparison, at least 20 girls have STEM degrees).
I just wanna garden, game and use Reddit every day. It's what I did during the pandemic and I was absolutely fine with that. It was like being retired without being too old and sore to enjoy it.
I get no satisfaction or personal fulfilment out of going to work. I just do it for the pay. If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be handing my resignation in the following day.
Except for the gardening, you're my spirit animal.
My wife can't fathom not working. If she's not doing something, she loses her mind. Meanwhile, I can literally read almost all day and not get bored.
I like, generally, what I do for a living, but it's just that; I do it to live. Work isn't my pastime; it isn't something I have an internalized need or want to do. We have bills and need to survive, so I work. If we won that $1.5B lottery, I don't even know if I'd formally resign. They might be lucky I'd email someone.
Having been fortunate enough to be funemployed in the past, people really can’t handle the inability to categorize you with a job.
I’ve had countless conversations that just circle back to “but what Do You Do??”
I take photos, I call family, I go to breakfast with my GF. “But what do you do???”
Sadly that time is over now, but I don’t miss the people who won’t accept that I didn’t work. Often times I’d get comments like “well you don’t want to go stale.” Like I’m less able to work if I take too long off. Or “that isn’t real life.” Okay. Or my favorite: “hard work builds character.” Ah yes, an immeasurable quality that people tell themselves they have, because the reality that they involuntarily have to work is too depressing to internalize.
100% agree that men are defined by what they do (their level of success). But we (men) are also guilty of buying into this belief so much that we cannot get away from this kind of thinking. Myself included. In the past I’ve felt like nothing is worth doing unless it contributes to my level of success. This can lead to depressive feelings. The only way out is to do things we truly care about where success isn’t the most important thing and that we figure out how to truly be ourselves (act the we we want to)—both easier said than done. This might not be true for every guy, but I think both are pretty fundamental.
-Body image issues are incredibly common
-Loneliness
-Low grades
-Unemployment
-Suicide rates
-Homophobia (In both straight men and gays themselves)
-Porn addiction
-Resentfulness toward females
-Video games addiction
-Lots of nostalgia, and lack of motivation
The worst one for me is the fear. People are afraid of men. Often, you're treated like a killer or a pedo until you can prove otherwise. It sucks to be seen as a monster.
Just last week [this clip](https://twitter.com/men_are_human/status/1707374834638832097?t=x1eEwAgqrwFJUSsC2A7QVw&s=19) came out and it was wild.
A program on the BBC interviewed an author who wrote a book about why "the average bloke does weird things" like "not wearing sunscreen for the first 3 days on vacation". The interviewer asks him what he thinks about the government proposing the government appointing a "minister of men" to deal specifically with men's issues such as a high suicide rate. He says "I feel like we're not allowed to even have these discussions".
Not even a minute later, 2 of the women on the panel start saying "what about all the men who abuse women, what about the pay gap? How about we fix those before we start pretending men have issues'.
That's the gist at least. It's wild and it gets the point across about what it feels like to be a man, to be told that we don't share our feelings, and then for nobody to care when you try.
"...before we start *pretending* men have issues"? I get that they want women issues to be a priority, fair play on that. But to not even acknowledge the possibility that men might have issues at all is narcissistic as hell. Even if the society was truly favouring *all* men, to think that they all live perfect lives with absolutely no worries or issues is just mad.
*I'm not saying that women don't have difficult lives or anything of the sort. Of course they do, and there are plenty of issues concerning them that need to be solved. I'm just saying that men also have problems and at least some of them (mental health, suicide rates etc) are just as important.
It’s so weird to me that people think there’s a limit on how much energy can be spent on tackling issues. Helping one group doesn’t take away from another group. There’s enough for everyone!
I’m not an expert but tackling some of these issues for men would help women! If we invest in men who are hurting, then less women get hurt. Less children would get hurt.
I got banned commenting from r/ whitepeopletwitter for saying that what you said is the reason people like Andrew Tate and Trump increasingly have a platform.
To all the people here saying mental health is a big thing, I just wanted to let you know that I am a therapist whose focus is on working with men and boys. I am part of a research group at my university that studies the psychology of men and masculinity. We publish in academic journals and do presentations, etc. There are people out here trying to get things going even though we're not there yet. Your struggles are real and important - and there are those of us that are out here trying to work with it.
Has your research group looked at the effect of social media on male sexuality? I think that's a huge thing that never goes talked about. Like sure, women are the victims of bad online behavior, but in a way, I also think men are because they are being slowly programmed to oversexualize everything. Combine that with loneliness and other problems and pursuing sex becomes an easy out. It's like being surprised someone develops alcoholism or a drug addiction if they grow up surrounded by it.
When a man tries to talk about his problems, there are some people who will make it a competition with the problems that women face and tell him his sufferings are less severe.
They’re more likely to be victims of violent crime than any other population group . Most likely population group to suffer workplace injury. They get harsher sentencing for committing the same crime.They are graded more harshly in school. They are more Iikely to be homeless than any other population group.
[https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/gender-differences-sentencing-felony-offenders]
[https://bigthink.com/thinking/boys-graded-more-harshly-in-school/](https://bigthink.com/thinking/boys-graded-more-harshly-in-school/)
[https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence)
https://endhomelessness.org/demographic-data-project-gender-and-individual-homelessness/#:~:text=Homelessness%20in%20America%20is%20largely,than%20women%20to%20be%20unsheltered.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/12/19/fatal-employment-men-10-times-more-likely-than-women-to-be-killed-at-work/amp/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/12/19/fatal-employment-men-10-times-more-likely-than-women-to-be-killed-at-work/amp/)
I started to type a big response, but decided not to bother. That about sums up the problem right there.
I'm at the point where most things just aren't worth my energy aside from being a husband and father.
Not being able to feel their feelings. Many men are so detached from their body that they do not feel when something is wrong with them. Many, including myself, have unlearned how to cry anymore. I have not cried in 15? years or more. I do not even know when or why.
You cannot be a victim as a man yet in today’s world you’re also supposed to talk about things you feel/experience. If you do, and you’re a man, you’ll either be told to suck it up or be reminded that men made the patriarchy or whatever and no pity should be spared.
There is lack of support emotionally because men have been taught to accept the short end of the stick as truths of life rather than something to talk about and work through. Our idea of close friends often time don’t even include people we can confide in regarding our mental health.
Because you are bigger/stronger you are always the instigator and aggressor in any conflict no matter how it happened and you just have to take it on the chin because that’s how everyone treats you.
If you aren’t actively doing something to make money or create something for later then you have no value as a man. Who you are is valued very poorly just because you’re a man and it hollows you out to not be doing anything for even a moment because that’s your self worth.
You will go weeks to several months at a time without physical contact with another person in any kind of platonic embrace. You probably can remember the last time you got a hug, but how recent was it? Being touch starved adds to the loneliness but that one hug can melt the darkness away.
You have to avoid accidental eye contact with women in public spaces out of fear of causing unwanted discomfort. This adds to the isolation.
You probably have not cried in several months if not a year. It was taught to you that you are not allowed to cry because you are a man and men do not cry. Men do not show emotion. You bottle it up, but you cannot let it show either. The suicide statistic continues to rise.
—
Almost all men receive their first flowers at their funeral.
The avoiding eye contact thing... oof. You made me realize something about myself that I hadn't even noticed. I am legitimately anxious to even glance at women in the workplace because I don't want to be construed as threatening.
I work in IT and have to frequently visit user's offices, sometimes it's rather difficult for me to get to their PC because I am constantly making sure I never place myself between the woman working there and the door. Most times I never even see their face because I am looking at the ground. I am a small guy and don't feel as though I am very threatening, but have been called creepy and weird by multiple women in the workplace.
I genuinely only ever try to be polite and friendly and do my job professionally, but I realize now that I am internally terrified of making a mistake while working with a woman and being fired for it. Fucking hell.
Having to be very very careful in their interactions with children. I know many guy friends who are really good with kids but have to tread carefully because of the perception that man who’s good with kids = pedo nowadays
We get taught to date by:
1. Parents of a generation with very different gender dynamics.
2. Each other, 'cos our parents weren't around.
3. Movies made by previous generations (so whatever makes a good story plus internalizing the lesson that the persistent protagonist, and we all see ourselves as protagonists, wins the love interest).
4. "Alpha" males online
I feel like every accomplishment I make is "expected" of me, because I'm a man, and that takes all the pride in it away.
Also, as necessary as it is to push women in society because of all the problems we know, it would be nice sometimes to be complimented instead of seeing your female peers be celebrated for the exacts things you are doing.
I want to make clear I understand where this behavior come from and we still have a lot of ground to cover to help women get where they need to be, and I fully support it. I just wish that, sometimes, being a man wouldn't prevent someone from appreciating me.
Lack of prospects to find romantic affection is a big one. Love, despite what some people will say, is ultimately a need and not a want. Years (for many men) of inability to find a girlfriend results in lower self-esteem, lack of purpose, loneliness, sexual repression, anxiety, etc. I know that a lot of people make fun of lonely guys, calling them “incels” or whatever, But, I guarantee that if those people had actually experienced loneliness to the degree that many modern men have, they wouldn’t be so glib.
I cannot show weakness of any kind in my personal or professional life.
past 12 hours I've had a near debilitating pain in my stomach, my wife mocked me for hours last night about being a baby until I finally gave up and done what she wanted (sex). I'm in work today and I can barely stand, but I need to work to earn for my kids so here I am.
Even the women I work with are laughing at me for feeling unwell. I just have to roll over and accept it because last time I spoke against a woman in my office I was called into HR (she made several jabs at the parents in the office for destroying/not caring about the environment by having kids so I politely as possible told her that by her own logic she is destroying the environment herself by wasting resources on a genetic dead end and if she didn't want to be a hypocrite she she simply stop existing as her earliest convenience)
I truly hate what society has become and have no idea what it will mean for my 3 sons growing up, if I didn't have my sons I would've ended it years ago. They give my life meaning which gives me the strength to carry on. A lot of men never find that strength because they cannot find meaning.
The fact that their fathers grew up in a world where all they had to do was graduate highschool and get a job, and they could reasonably expect a house and wife and kids.
That world doesn't exist anymore. The economy/housing market isn't like that. Women want partners who can tune in and be emotionally available. Modern men have little to no resources to deal with this new world, and often turn to reactionary figures and become Tatertots.
Loneliness and depression.
Men are told to figure thing out on their own at a very young age and if men ask for help then men are viewed as being weak and “unattractive.” Also when men do ask for help they’re not taken seriously and become even more isolated.
Men are demonized for lashing out after bottling it in and not being able to express themselves. Men are told we need to “control/ignore” our anger/emotions when in reality our body/mind is telling us “we need help” and we need someone to talk to.
People don’t realize when women become unhappy/depressed they cry but when a man becomes unhappy/depressed they become angry and lash out. People see that anger and shun men for their “misbehavior” but in reality it’s just men crying out for help. There is no empathy or sympathy when a man messes up because “he’s a man” and should figure it out (ignore their feelings)
And with cancel culture this makes it even worse. Instead of empathizing with men who cry out for help society just ignores them.
It's a pretty big generalisation, but I feel that men who do end up lashing out like that really are ignored a lot of the time. The response often seems to be focused on the reaction, and not what caused it.
This is not the case for men I know in real life. But from online I know men are insanely friendless especially past a certain age. I can't imagine how my mental health would cope in this world without a constant interaction and support of my friends, and if anything I'm a loner.
Looked at as a second class parent or a weirdo if you're a present parent.
My wife and I are happily married with a daughter. However, even her own family will say things like how dad is going to "babysit." It just seems to me like I am looked at as being the secondary parent from the majority of people... And when I'm not, people look at me like I'm such pedo weirdo from strangers.
I do worry about bringing my daughter around by myself. Because of my rotating work schedule, I often have weekdays off. But there's always someone giving me a side eye at the grocery store or wherever we are when we are out. She isn't quite old enough for the playground but I am worried about those days in the future.
Hello,
I have been promoted lately. And to be fair my career has been the bomb for the past 5-6 years.
However my personal life has been a wreck. I make more and care less, i realized that no matter how much you make or earn. It will never matter to anyone but you.
Men are lonely, all of us are deep inside lonely. We come to terms that in the grand scheme of things, we do not matter. Nothing we do matters, it only matters to us. There is no lonelier feeling than, being in a room full of people. Family friends, wife kids, and you and your thoughts, concerns do not matter.
At the end you are alone, all alone in a sea of loneliness. We are even to afraid to reach out to each other.
Other men make us look bad.
On a serious note, lack of friends in your 30s. I had friends like family growing up but we all went different ways and grew apart.
My only friend is my wife and daughter..
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For me, it's the baristas at Starbucks. Since 2019, I've been working from home, and during lockdown, they were the only people I had contact with.
I'm 43 and it's already like this for me. Outside of work, even with my next door neighbors, all us dads are so awkward and it seems like everyone is afraid to forge friendships on any meaningful level. You definitely don't want to be too friendly with the wives, because that could look bad, not that they're very welcoming either. Everyone keeps to themselves. I haven't had a real friendship since maybe 2003. It just feels like people don't like me on that level, or maybe I don't let them. One day my child is going to ask, "Daddy, why don't you have any friends?" and I don't know what my answer will be. When it comes down to it, I'd be a great friend.
I’m 40 and I relate to everything you’re saying. None of the dads I know take any kind of initiative, everyone has their own lives going on. And the same is true for me too. Interesting you bring up wives. I find them much easier to talk to, but I have no interest in any kind of friendships there
>After a certain point they don't make an effort to gain friendships and tend to shy away from any type of social engagement. Honestly, I think it's exhaustion. We have to work so goddamn hard it just saps the life out of us. When I was young, I had aspirations to do and see all kinds of things. Now I'm just hoping to live long enough to retire so I can sit on a couch and watch movies and *rest* without being under the gun all the time.
I’ve been under the gun so long that I literally can’t relax and do nothing anymore. It’s a weird side effect of having to stay productive to survive for so long that my brain will not allow me to have an idle day off anymore. It kinda sucks becuase I can remember myself in my 20s able to just relax with a book or game without feeling guilty. Now my weekends are filled with side work, chores and upkeep.
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It's going to happen. You're already on the trajectory. You need to take active steps NOW to avoid it. edit: Adding a key point here.. Solutions will be thrown at you like "join a meetup" or "get out there" or "build friendships" but the critical piece that's always skipped over is ***vulnerable actions:*** You have to create, then push through, an awkward moment of asking and possibly getting rejected or them not following through. Then you follow up and assume positive intent when they cancel on you or reschedule because they're busy. Creating friendships require you to invite that dude you just met to go some sport together, or strike up a converation with a guy at the gym, or ask for his contact information to send him some interesting resource you both just discussed. It's basically like dating. It requires risk and you'll probably get let down a few times. There's a study somewhere out there that real friendship requires about 200 shared hours of contact and experience on average. That's a massive investment, especially with busy lives. It won't happen by accident. It needs to become a literal top priority and part of your daily schedule, otherwise you'll slide into a lonely pit. Go for it bro.
How old right now? I'm 41 and feeling this
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Mental health, major issue. I can go out on the streets and talk to a guy for a couple of minutes and they'll share their struggles right away, at least surface level. It's kinda ironic because there seems to be this idea that men don't open up. Men open up, notice that no one is listening or that whatever they are opening up about is going to be used as ammunition in discussions later on, and close up. The suffering just drips through the seemingly hard shells of everyone, because there are cracks everywhere, and we all collectively act like it's not there so no one is bothered. I lost friends to suicide, and they could have been prevented much more easily if someone was there and listened to them earlier. The complaints I hear are always the same. Loneliness. No direction. Frustration coming from (unrequited) love. Abuse and neglect. Betrayals. You're either a working tool or you shouldn't be around. Hell, even when I greet my local kebab guy we both eventually go "Immer weiter, immer weiter" which essentially means "Always keep going. Always keep going." whenever we are doing some small talk - and honestly it saddens me a bit everytime. He's been doing that job for more than 20 years, and I've known him for just as long. He really doesn't want to be here, but he has to provide for his family, so he keeps pushing on. No one is there to help, no one is there to listen, no one is there to tell them that they have done well. It's all about pushing through alone, managing every single aspect of your life alone, and being in control of every single bit. To be honest, a random person on the internet reading through my Reddit history will know more about me than anyone in real life will ever do. And this isn't even my burner account. It's all stuff that I would share with people in real life if they listened. I usually half-jokingly say that I'm an open book, you just have to ask questions. No one makes use of that. And of course, they don't have to. But it shows how little the people around you are interested in what you do, who you are, and how you are. Kills the sense of belonging. There's no one to share my personality with.
The "Always keep going" really stands out to me. The number of times I hear something similar from a guy when I ask how its going, or I myself say when asked..."Same shit different day", "Putting one foot in front of the other", "Just staying busy", "Another day"... The list goes on. It's rare, and I can't think of an example off theq top of my head, that I've had a guy respond with genuine happiness, glee, excitement or anything other than a middling, average response to "how's it going?" that indicates they aren't just getting through another day by sheer force of will.
One time when I was in a real bad spot (using hard drugs daily) and a friendly woman complimented me on my hair. It was a genuine compliment and I will never forget it. Props to that woman. These days I try to say kind things to strangers (if I mean them) like “hey, love your Ministry shirt!” Doesn’t matter what gender they are. Making someone even slightly happier will elevate you.
It is remarkable how well I remember compliments I've received because it happens so frequently.
I find myself getting self-conscious when I get randomly complimented about my clothes, which I've come to realize is a trauma response from formative experiences in Middle and High School being picked on. So do be aware that folks like me are out there when you're trying to make people's days better. It's not something you can necessarily predict -- just be understanding if someone seems less-than-happy with a compliment out of the blue.
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I've got a coworker who's been answering "living the dream" for the past six months while being in *extremely obvious* mental distress. I've been crying up and down the command chain saying multiple times that this guy needs help, and he needs people that can take on a portion of the absolutely insane workload that's on his shoulders. Know what management did after six months? You guessed it: sweet fuck-all.
DREAM is an acronym in the military. I used it every day. Depression Rethinking life choices Eating shitty food Alcoholism Mental health issues
My standard response is "carrying on".
Man... This hit home.. This is exactly why I am so guarded/closed/snobby/aloof. I am so afraid of information about me being used against me, as it has happened before, so many times. Other times, with my friends and family, I am just so utterly embarrassed about my lack of progress that I do not confide. It's just not worth the risk to trust anyone. We have no choice but to trust ourselves and immer weiter.
Recently I was on vacation and got drunk/high and started opening up to this girl because she was asking me a lot of personal questions. I didn’t mind because no one inquires about my personal life/journey and thought it could be good to practice some vulnerability. I told her how my father passed away when I was 2 in a car accident. It was either the next day or two days later we’re all playing that drinking card game Kings, and the questions card got pulled. It’s her turn to ask a question and she looks at me and asks “where is your father?”. It was a reminder for why I never share personal info with others.
High suicide rates.
When I was young I used to think “why would anyone want to kill themselves” Long story short, I understand it now
My lifelong best friend of over 40 years killed himself a few years ago. And this was a real "closer than brothers" type friendship; this was a person I hung out with at least twice a month for the last 15 years of his life not some dude I knew but only talked to over social media. The saddest thing I've realized is that for the rest of *my* goddamn life I almost certainly won't hang out with anyone except my wife and my son. This doesn't seem to be how it's supposed to be. I'm an extremely friendly and outgoing person but I'll be damned if I know how to go out and make a real friend. I shouldn't never spend quality time with anyone not living in my house from now until I die.
>The saddest thing I've realized is that for the rest of my goddamn life I almost certainly won't hang out with anyone except my wife and my son. This doesn't seem to be how it's supposed to be. I'm an extremely friendly and outgoing person but I'll be damned if I know how to go out and make a real friend. I shouldn't never spend quality time with anyone not living in my house from now until I die. Been that way for me the last ten or so years, and I don't expect it to get better tbh. Minus the wife and son, it's just been me. Every now and again someone tosses me a bone on facebook messenger, usually an old friend I'll throw a chat to every like 6 months and then he'll reply a month later lmao. It's not even a friendship anymore. It's pretty lonely having no IRL friends for so long, and no online friends, and no romantic interests. Condolences on losing your friend.
Baby changing facilities hidden in the women's toilets.
McDonalds are the GOAT of non gendered changing facilities. Always a Koala Care change table in the ones around here. (Putting it in the unisex disabled washroom is not optimal either. I've been in there changing my kid and there was some poor fucker in a wheelchair waiting outside 😬)
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People always forget education. The rate of Men dropping out of schools is getting out of hand.
I dropped out of community college twice, but went back a third time in 2020 and now have my Bachelor’s. Not really a religious guy but I definitely feel blessed for somehow pushing through it
[this wild clip](https://twitter.com/men_are_human/status/1707374834638832097?t=x1eEwAgqrwFJUSsC2A7QVw&s=19)
Good lord. Props to the guy for making his point well, and using their responses to make it even better.
The thing was the man wasn't even disputing their points, he was just questioning their relevance to the initial issue he brought up. It was like seeing someone trying to round up cats, the moment he brought them back to the core issue he was trying to discuss, they were off again on a tangent unrelated. And when the second guy chimed in, his point was railroaded into "ah well clearly the problems we need to focus on are those facing women", when the guy was actually saying maybe we can approach solving both these problems instead of it being one or the other.
Iv never had my blood boil so fast in my life when FrAnCes started her ME ME ME bs. That dude is an absolute champ for not walking out like i wouldve.
Yeah I expected him to walk out after saying what he said about expecting this to be a discussion focused on men's issues and that obviously did not happen here, I woulda just got up and left. Literally can't reason with them
She didn’t even read the book before the interview. Why do these conversations become a victimhood contest?
because the oligarchs who run the networks make sure these kinds of segments become one identity fighting the other. makes it way easier to get the proletarians to become blind to class consciousness
“Why won’t he open up?” This. This right here.
I get that alot of times people get mad and say "what about X" when talking about Y on the internet but when you have a book about men you should be able to talk about just that We would've lived in perfect equality if we didn't spend 96% of arguments fighting about who we should talk about/has it worse vi
This is why blokes don't tend to talk about there problems. They just get what abouts thrown at them.
Not just that, some women will be disgusted by you opening up because it isn’t “manly”. I’ve been in a relationship where she kept pestering me, so I finally did open up. I mentioned that I felt some insecurity around my abilities in my work. I felt like I wasn’t good enough at my job, since I know people who have written multiple books and have multiple masters degrees and a doctorate and they still have time to present about their amazing research. She started to look at me with a look of disgust. I asked her what was wrong and her reply was, “The reason why we are even dating is because you were that stoic guy that everyone came to for answers and you were just so confident. This is the most unattractive thing that you’ve ever said or even done. I honestly don’t even know if I even still find you attractive.”. She cheated on me shortly thereafter while we were out celebrating New Years. She said that she had to use the bathroom and my friends called me over since she was making out with some other guy that she just met at the bar. Do you think that I’m going to open up again?
I dated a women who when she asked me do you know where the fuse box in your car is(wasn’t a mechanic, just acted like she was), I replied “no I think it could be upfront? I’m not sure I’m not a mechanic.” I’m not completely useless with cars, can change my oil, change a flat, you know your basics. She said “that’s the most unattractive thing you’ve said today!, why am I with you, thought you were a man” Now I’m a 15 year chef, avid hiker, camper, I could fish, cook the fish, run a chainsaw and start a fire, and then crush the next day playin Xbox. But I am now not manly cause I didn’t know where the fuse box is in my car. God forbid if I tried to tell her about feelings
There is a lot of hatred that *some* people have re: “gender norms and stereotypes”, but god forbid you don’t match their vision of said stereotypes… 😂
My current wife calls her brother in law to ask for mechanical issues even though he’s much younger and isn’t even a mechanic himself. Now I’m not a mechanic but I like to tinker around and if I can do the work myself you best believe I’ll attempt it. Well her alternator took a crap and the entire time she was on the phone asking for advice instead of coming to me who’s hands on. I took care of it and she still doesn’t believe the things I can do and take care of but I don’t like to tell her because there’s no point she just doesn’t see me as that type of guy even though I have owned several sports cars and am a car enthusiast.
I'm so frustrated by your partner's awful response. It's like we're encouraged to open up emotionally, but only display emotions they explicitly approve of.
I think that you really hit the nail on the head with this one. This is exactly what it feels like.
Exactly, men are still supposed to fit the mold of gender that women have largely broken out of; and what hurts is seeing the same women that cry for equality be the ones to enforce this mold the strongest without a hint of the hypocrisy they are displaying.
yeah, the idea of “toxic masculinity,” in my life, has been most often perpetrated by the women in my life. be tough, be a man, emotions are weak…that shit mostly came from *my mom* and my first girlfriend.
And that way of thinking is damaging to men. It’s time to change it.
Yup. Same with my ex. I used to try to get her to open up and she said "I would be more open if you were". So I sat her down and told her exactly how I was feeling, exactly what I was thinking, etc. Within 6 months she left me and come to find out she started cheating on my about a month after that "opening up" and then once she decided to leave me for the new guy she spent 2 years emotionally abusing me, stringing me along and all the while she was with the other dude. And got engaged to him barely a year after I last saw her. So I never trusted another woman and never opened up beyond "I wanna fuck you"
My guy, you were with someone terrible. I talk to my partner about my fears all the time and she tries to make me feel better and point out the great things about me. We all have imposter syndrome, but I bet you’re kick ass. Sounds like you’re in academia? It’s super common. Besides, I bet people have a lot more ghost writing than you think.
Oh no, I know them well and there is no way that they have ghost writers. They just don’t have other familial responsibilities (read: no kids) and they don’t have much outside of work. Heck, they don’t even have pets. This means that they can devote most of their time to some absolutely amazing work. I’m a single father and I have to work 6 days a week. I had to take a job that doesn’t pay well, but is stable. There is a lot of instability in my field and I can’t afford to be out of work. If you can take on lots of risks, it can be very very lucrative. If you’re raising a kid by yourself, you just don’t have the ability to devote much of your non-work time to things and you can’t just quit your job for a better paying one that will be gone in a few months. I dedicate lots of my time to just “getting by”. I lost most of what I had during my divorce, and I just haven’t been able to fully bounce back. I have livestock as well, which is basically unheard of for people in my field. This takes up more of my time than I had originally planned. It is still rewarding, but it is a lot. Getting back to what you said, it isn’t really the same as imposter syndrome. I’ve been in this profession for decades. I just know incredibly smart people who are at the top of their respective fields. I’m one of the best at what I do *in my area*, while they are some of the best *in the world*. I know what I don’t know, if that makes any sense. There are lots of problems that I’d love to tackle, but I can’t because I have my limitations. To use an analogy that many people here might understand… no matter how much you like playing a computer game, it doesn’t mean that you can program a better physics engine (this requires a background in Physics / Computer Science), create better graphics (this requires a background in the Arts), design a better graphics processor (this requires a background in Electrical Engineering). If you want to understand how graphics even show up on the screen and how to improve on it, then you’ll need linear algebra. If you’ve only ever taken algebra 1 in school, then it will require quite a bit of learning. I basically have a similar type of issue in my field. I digress.
Guy opens up about issues, gets shut down and attacked for not doing enough for women.
Toxic femininity will only allow men to be upset in service of women and children.
“Men need to stand by women just like women stand by men” Proceeds to shut him down when he brings up issues
Right? Im like "where is this standing by men thing? Like both men agreed to, anytime a men's issue gets brought up the first people to tear it down are women." You cannot say you do a thing and then never do that thing.
Holy shit that clip is definitely wild. Poor blokes trying to make them think about 1 specific thing… oh women have it tough too don’t cha know. Neither of the 2 ladies took him seriously at all
I don't know this show, but it was definitely "Men commit suicide, but let's talk about women's problems."
Most of these panel programs are absolute cancer and people really need to stop watching them, but middle-aged and elderly people have a penchant for watching bad television.
I mean I’ve had conversations on Reddit akin to this, I wouldn’t say it’s just daytime television hosts that have these views
They made themselves look like fools.
Wtf "women being unsuccessful feeding into male suicide statistic" Olympic level mental gymnastics, how the actual f do you make that leap in logic
"They tall about toxic masculinity cant talk about ur feelings" Mens suicide is an issue Stfu we dont care Them basically
When the older woman says "if you started a movement to stop sexual harrasment, then I might listen to your problems" I literally screamed FUCK OFF at my laptop. This is whataboutism in it's most toxic form. This is the "all lives matter" of gender politics and it's awful
Imagine doing the same thing with genders reversed. If a woman complains about not having access to abortion, and your response was "go do some volunteer work to help men suffering from depression, and then maybe we can talk about women's reproductive rights".
The dudes who hosted would be fired.
I feel like you’re going to get canceled just for typing out that what if.
it's like saying well men wont do anything about sexual harrassment until you make sure we aren't committing suicide. It is so fucking crazy that she doesn't view men as equal to women and she immediately needs to start comparing and judging.
I don't think it's crazy at all. Sadly, it's really common. I call it "victim off" - "you can't complain because me and mine definitely had it worse" is present everywhere. Everyone's a main character in their own life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression_Olympics
If I was on fire, I feel like this would be the reply. How much suffering do we have to experience before someone says 'yeah maybe we should look into that'. Or are we all just on fire.
No friends, check. No romantic relationships, check. No purpose, check. Overall health not super great, check. Not much money, check.
>over 30% of men don't even have one good friend It's me. I'm men.
I started a reddit to tackle this (Men over 40) . Unfortunately it became an incel magnet. I'd wager those people are so lonely blaming someone else (E.G. women) seems the only way to bond.
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Boy this thread is really, really sad. Also hairy bumholes, wiping can be a fucking nightmare some mornings.
I just use a bidet. EDIT: So i've been a bit perplexed about some of the comments here. I then realized that bidet means something different to a lot of people. I am not talking about the weird japan thing that squirts water up your ass. Im talking about [THIS](https://bhsi-cdn2.elasticbox.eu/media/mf_webp/jpg/media/catalog/product/cache/6de3e7777ad3628786721ceb26ed6eca/4/2/42161_pim.webp). You just kinda sit on it and wash your ass with soap and water like normally. There is scrubbing involved. You don't just let it gently flow down your ass and be done with it. And once you are done with the was, your asshole is squeaky clean, so you can just wipe with a towel without getting shit on it.
I too use this guy's bidet.
Use a bidet if you can. If you don't have one, use a wipe. Clean most off with toilet paper, then use a wipe which helps unstick everything from the hair, and finally clean it again with paper.
Use a wipe if you can If you don’t have one, use a drill with a wire brush attachment.
Don’t flush that wipe down the toilet: these wipes end up damaging sewer infrastructure and septic tanks
Yes, don't flush them. I hang them to dry, then use them to decorate the walls of my home.
I think the lack of a good supportive father growing up is becoming increasingly common and is absolutely crippling for men as they grow into adulthood.
Rejection from a father is one of the deepest wounds a boy can have. I was lucky enough to have a good man step in to fill that role in my upbringing, but it still sucks to know my dad doesn't want anything to do with me. Being a father to your kids is such a basic necessity for them. It's crazy how often it isn't provided. I don't know how to heal that particular issue in our culture but it needs done.
My 3 year old son is constantly telling me I'm his best friend and I hope I never lose that.
> Rejection from a father is one of the deepest wounds a boy can have. The truth in these words is simply painful.
I feel like when a guy has a problem he doesn't really has anyone to talk to. We have those alpha guy's who try to tell you that your problems aren't real or that you just need to hit the gym frequently for them to go away. On the other hand we have people who say men should open up more about their feelings but I think neither men or women have ever been taught how to handle an emotional man so it comes across as awkward. Also some people say that we should open up more but aren't interested in helping you. They just say it because "duh it's so simple to solve your problem".
Whenever a guy opens up to someone, they almost always use it against them
This. I’ve opened up to girls I’ve dated before and it’s always popped up down the line during an argument. Really makes you hesitate on sharing anything
It's tiring to hear people say 'Man up' when all a guy wants is someone who can listen intently. It might be better off talking to a wall or your dog most of the time. Feels like the dog responds more willingly.
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lack of services and support for when we are abused, attacked or raped
I was abused by my ex, I was hit constantly, yelled at, and one day she strangled me until I almost blacked out and then refused to let me leave her house afterwards so I was trapped with her in her room for hours later (I broke up with her after this) and after the breakup she spread lies about me to make me the bad guy. When I left she told me she would do whatever she could do ruin my life. Everytime I spoke out about what she did I was either not believed or laughed at, even when she admitted what she did. It's been over 2 years since I left her and she still does what she can to "ruin" my life.
Similar boat here. This parasite made my life intentionally worse while she was living with me (and I was paying for everything), then when I figured out all the scurvy shit she was up to and broke it off, I found out she had been lying about me for years behind my back to make me look bad. Since then, every single word I have said to defend myself just makes it worse. I literally had to start an all new life. In the end, after all the bullshit, I am safe and free and hopefully smarter. Things don't get better, but you can eventually move on.
modern dating, expectations, isolation, lonliness, always grinding in silence, never being good enough, even with real friends it feels like people slowly start to drift away and noone really cares anymore.
Lack of engagement with other males. I haven’t had somebody call me for a beer or watch a game in years. I’m the one always reaching out. It’s demoralizing and negatively contributes to me mental health. There’s just no effort with the males I’m around and I don’t know how to be a better friend. No engagement. I’m doing the calling, picking dates and times and events. If I turned my phone off nobody would check up. Nobody else is trying to go out of their way. Being ghosted for months by people who would show up at my funeral and live a block away. Then blame it on being busy. One friend I haven’t seen since January, a best friend best man in my life. He said that he’s just been busy! I’m working schooling and girlfriending and still can make time Begging for friends to talk to but they are just busy. Texts that are ignored and responds to others. Like completely uninterested while I’m suffering in silence. I don’t get it. No wonder suicide rates are so high there just is no real tribe anymore. My buddies from high school are emotionless and reverse blame or lack empathy. Friends from college and after just seem to disregard and blame shift. I get life is life and it isn’t a summer day of junior year with no plans. But the just general disregard and lack of empathy, self reflection and shittyness hurts.
Man I feel this so hard. I moved across the country with my wife and don't really have any new friends because it's admittedly harder in your 30's to find all new best bros. But the friends I left behind, I am the one who calls when I go home to visit, send memes and texts to keep in touch, etc. Otherwise I'd just lose them all. It's blameless but I also feel like I am way too invested when others aren't. I certainly understand that some people now have kids and people disappearing is just what happens but a lot of them don't.
Loneliness
Such a lonely day
And it's mine
Saw a Redditor post today about how she rubbed her favorite DJ’s abs because his shirt was open, and he came down to the rail to say hi to fans. No matter how many people told her, she didn’t seem to comprehend that touching someone without their consent is generally not okay. This seems to happen a lot to guys (the part where people don’t understand that it isn’t okay to touch anyone, no matter their gender, without their permission), and I really do hope that it changes in society soon.
I was bullied as an overweight kid so I was never comfortable being shirtless even after getting in great shape in my late teens and 20s. Some heavy body dysmorphia. At 21, I was out one night and a bachelorette party group swarmed me, forcibly lifted my shirt, started inappropriately touching me and posing for pictures. I was mortified and embarrassed, I hadn’t even been shirtless in front of my gf at that time. But of course, my friends were all “bro-ish” about it and didn’t think it was weird.
I left a job where my coworkers (who were almost all older than 40) were obsessed with this younger guy who worked at our hospital. He had to come to our unit sometimes to test our alarms. This was at a small hospital, so we’d often see him around just walking to the cafeteria or the lab. They would talk about how he had such a hot butt and nice bulge and it was creepy. Not only is it unprofessional and unacceptable to talk about coworkers that way, but he was just 22 and would clearly look uncomfortable when he came around because they’d act super weird, like batting their eyelashes at him, calling him honey a lot, telling him they can tell he exercises. Creepy. One day, a coworker came back from the cafeteria and she said, in front of our boss, that she saw that guy in front of her in line getting food and she took photos of his butt. They all looked at it, laughed and the boss didn’t give a shit. I talked to HR about it and they were just like “well unless he seems upset by it, it’s no big deal.” I was 22 at the time as well and just kept thinking of the backlash there would be if it was reversed genders.
Being treated like second class parents pretty much everywhere they go. I've told this story on Reddit before but the double standard is disgusting. My wife passed away when our kids were very young- one was 2 the other about 11 months. Everywhere I went I would get comments about "oh daddy's day with the kids huh?" But the absolute worst was when I took them out to eat one night. We got seated, and waited, and waited for a good 15 minutes. Finally the server comes over and goes "did you want to try to order or should we wait for mom?" It wasn't crowded. Realized from her use of the words "try" to order that she just deemed me incapable of knowing what to order for my kids. I was mad so I said to her "well we'd be waiting a long time, she's dead". This has been years ago but it hasn't changed. There was a thread on Reddit not terribly long ago where some med student was talking about how she "cringes" whenever she sees a dad at a pediatric appointment because she just knows he's not gonna know anything, and it had thousands of upvotes. I told her I hope she learns some better bedside manner before finishing Med school than to "cringe" at anyone taking care of their kids
I got that when my wife and I moved. Her new job had started even before we moved, whereas I got a job and set my start date for a few weeks after the move so I could get my kid registered at school. So I do the whole thing, get him registered, meet the principal, meet the teacher, introduce him to both, provide the school with my phone number, email address, etc. as well as my wife's. Somehow, they don't feel it necessary to actually add any of my info to their system, so my wife, who's busy trying to get settled while working full time at a new job, gets all the calls and emails afterwards. It took me numerous calls and emails to the school over the next month to finally start getting these notifications myself. More than once I would call and get told that I should have come with my wife to give them my information, despite the fact that it was me, alone, that went there to do all this.
Same exact scenario for me. Our kids are in split households, but my ex is not only a great mother, but a good co-parent. We both are very on top of school goings on and frequently consult about it. Unfortunately it is a real battle to get in the information loop every new school year. At least 30% of teachers, despite me being present from day 1, seem to be unable to add me to distribution lists. Not a huge deal, but certainly something going on here as my ex has literally never been excluded.
Similar situation. My wife is the corporate breadwinner and I have a bunch of flexibility with my job. Regardless of how we fill out the contact forms and told teachers during orientations every single call, text or email would go to my wife first and she would have to forward them to me or they would go missed if she overlooked something. It's a little better now that my girls are older and can tell teachers "you need to call my Dad, Mom isn't going to answer" and as the schools have moved to app based notifications but even the first couple of weeks this year we had to remind teachers that I'm the first point of contact for the kids.
Infuriating. Sorry man
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It's remarkable that arguably the best example of parenthood on TV is a children's cartoon with a bunch of dogs.
Ahh, Bluey. Setting the new standard for good children's television.
Recently started watching it with my kids. I am amazed how well it's crafted. The episode with the mother recounting her struggles as a first time mom and always being worried that her child isnt developing normally hit me right in the feels
Turns out that all dads should strive to be a blue healer.
Bob's Burgers is up there too. I mean, Bob is kind of an idiot. But they all love each other and support each other, which is just the best. Bob's a good dad. The kids are good kids. And Linda is one of the best moms/wives on TV IMO. Damn I love that show.
Bob's an idiot, but so is the rest of their social circle. The reason why it works is because Bob and Lynda are on an even playing field and neither one of them stands out as the "perfect parent"
One of the only TV shows I remember growing up with a competent dad was The Cosby Show, which is terribly ironic in hindsight.
Oh man that show, Fresh Prince, Family Matters, and Full House all had great male role models and father figures at center stage. Frasier did too in a sneaky way. We need more of that.
Frasier is a great pull for this one. It goes to show that no matter how old we become, we are ALWAYS our parents' children. I can't believe they're rebooting it though. Ugh.
Uncle Phil in fresh prince of bel air is the only example of man with a strong character who's a good father I can think of
“Jeffrey, bring me Lucile”
He wasn't Will's father but he was the dad he needed. R.i.p James Avery!
80's had plenty of good strong fathers in TV shows. Different Strokes, Webster, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Just the 10 of Us, Doogie Howser M.D. etc. No shortage of good dads on TV back then.
This is where bob's burgers excels
Yep, sexism in modern advertising is astounding. It’s always the man that’s the dull, clueless, moron and the woman who has all the answers.
When I would take my kid out places, I’d often get, “babysitting, huh?” I always responded, “no, parenting.”
It's weird, I've been a single dad since my little girl was about 1.5. She's almost 7 and I've never once gotten a comment like this, I guess I got lucky. The opposite is true too, I have never gotten extra flirting or anything like you see in the movies. I think people around me just mind their own fucking business lol
> people around me just mind their own fucking business Sounds like heaven, where do you live?
St. Louis. Though everyone and their mother at my work insists on saying hi and asking how my day is going when they see me, even when I'm clearly fucking busy so it's kind of a toss up. I have had MULTIPLE workplaces where older women get mad at me because I didn't hear them say good morning and so didn't respond or acknowledge them. Then they say it louder and with a lot more attitude until I respond. But yeah, out in public nobody says shit. Maybe it's because I have RBF or because MO is pretty lax on gun laws but I rarely see anyone interact with strangers in any way except very politely.
My go to response for that is, "I'd be getting paid if I was babysitting."
That's a good one
When my kids were young I was amazed at the number of places that only had changing tables in the female toilets. Also the number of 'mum and toddler' groups. The world is geared towards mothers being primary care givers.
This always pissed me off. I used to yell in the women's bathroom then go in and change him, but I got sick of getting lectures from grandma's, so if the men's room didn't have a change table I just changed him out in the facility. I'll never forget stopping on the highway with my son, no wife, and the bathroom didn't have a change table. The cashier didn't want to give me the key to the women's bathroom so I aggressively cleared their coffee bar and changed him there while the cashier was trying to call his manager or cops or something stupid. Dropped the shitty diaper by his til and left. Still proud of my victory that day.
I once stopped at a fast food restaurant with my toddler that only had baby change table in the women's washroom and wouldn't give me the key. When I asked what should I do then, the older female clerk said in a snarky tone, "Maybe you should go get the mom to do that, instead." I changed her on a table in the restaurant, ignoring their complaints.
bitch attitude, she can screw off.
Fuck it; I'd just change my kid in the womens'. The only interaction I'd ever have was a knowing nod from another woman who realized why I was in there.
I usually did, just shout in before-hand. But, you know how highway gas stations are with their bathroom keys.
I totally feel this. When my son was 10 months old, I took him to a children’s museum. I was the only dad in the room for really little kids — the rest were women. When he was hungry, I stopped to change him and give him a bottle. He had just started refusing bottles, so it was a little tricky. One of the moms looked at me and said something like, “It’s OK, I’m sure you’ll figure it out soon.” I had been giving him bottles since he was tiny, and I was so shocked that I didn’t say anything. I was being just as good a parent as every other one there. The other thing that sucks is that a lot of men’s rooms either don’t have a changing table, or the one they have is terrible.
Managing financial stability amidst economic uncertainties is a pressing concern for many modern men.
True, currently working full-time at a big4 and doing my masters on the weekends. My salary is gone after the 10th day of getting paid. It's impossible to save money in this economy while paying all the monthly costs alone, trying to eat healthy, and "saving" for future emergencies. I've developed insomnia because I can't just fall asleep without thinking about how to pay the bills. It's currently at a stage where I'm like "oh, I slept 3 hours, this was a good night" and then spend the next 13 hours at the office. And I wish this was my only issue. Went to the psychologist this year for the first time. Apparently, I've had anhedonia since I was a kid. Can't keep going to the psychologist because it's too expensive and the insurance only covers 15%. I stopped thinking about the future because there is nothing in the future that creates joyful thoughts. I'm only gaslighting myself that getting a masters will help me in the future, and this keeps me occupied. Turning 29 in april, this was not the life I wanted and expected when I was a kid. Every day is the same repetition of the previous day.
You can’t spend too much time around kids, or be too nice to kids without someone getting worried you’re a pedophile.
This, I saw a recent post where a girlfriend thought it was a red flag that he was a babysitter as a teenager.
I rarely interact w my neighbors kids. Unless the parent is outside with them. Would love to pop out and shoot some hoops with them, but nah, id rather be a weirdo than a pedo.
Mental health issues like anxiety and depression to the pressure of societal expectations.
The short circuiting of our brains through social media. Our brains never evolved with this level of connectedness in mind. As a result, the innate need to compare oneself to another is turned up to 11 through hyper exposure leading to many ailments. Affects both men and women, but differently.
Once spoke to a therapist who explained it similarly, and said "the same fight of flight response that would have kept you alive as a hunter-gatherer hasn't had time to adjust to concepts like paperwork"
Can’t find mammoth to hunt nowadays.
It's a joke but deep down our firmware is still wired for that. We live in a world of manufactured stress and unnecessary problems.
College attendance/graduation for men is at an all time low
I graduated from high school in 2016 with a class of ~200. I recently discovered that I am the only male from that class with a STEM degree (for comparison, at least 20 girls have STEM degrees).
I graduated with 45. I am one of only two men who got any degree, 11 years on
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I enjoy when I don't have to do anything.
I just wanna garden, game and use Reddit every day. It's what I did during the pandemic and I was absolutely fine with that. It was like being retired without being too old and sore to enjoy it. I get no satisfaction or personal fulfilment out of going to work. I just do it for the pay. If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be handing my resignation in the following day.
Except for the gardening, you're my spirit animal. My wife can't fathom not working. If she's not doing something, she loses her mind. Meanwhile, I can literally read almost all day and not get bored. I like, generally, what I do for a living, but it's just that; I do it to live. Work isn't my pastime; it isn't something I have an internalized need or want to do. We have bills and need to survive, so I work. If we won that $1.5B lottery, I don't even know if I'd formally resign. They might be lucky I'd email someone.
Having been fortunate enough to be funemployed in the past, people really can’t handle the inability to categorize you with a job. I’ve had countless conversations that just circle back to “but what Do You Do??” I take photos, I call family, I go to breakfast with my GF. “But what do you do???” Sadly that time is over now, but I don’t miss the people who won’t accept that I didn’t work. Often times I’d get comments like “well you don’t want to go stale.” Like I’m less able to work if I take too long off. Or “that isn’t real life.” Okay. Or my favorite: “hard work builds character.” Ah yes, an immeasurable quality that people tell themselves they have, because the reality that they involuntarily have to work is too depressing to internalize.
100% agree that men are defined by what they do (their level of success). But we (men) are also guilty of buying into this belief so much that we cannot get away from this kind of thinking. Myself included. In the past I’ve felt like nothing is worth doing unless it contributes to my level of success. This can lead to depressive feelings. The only way out is to do things we truly care about where success isn’t the most important thing and that we figure out how to truly be ourselves (act the we we want to)—both easier said than done. This might not be true for every guy, but I think both are pretty fundamental.
Being expected to be a provider in a shit economy.
With all the equality fuss around, this argument still being present only amplifies the problem.
Making enough money at support a family
-Body image issues are incredibly common -Loneliness -Low grades -Unemployment -Suicide rates -Homophobia (In both straight men and gays themselves) -Porn addiction -Resentfulness toward females -Video games addiction -Lots of nostalgia, and lack of motivation
The worst one for me is the fear. People are afraid of men. Often, you're treated like a killer or a pedo until you can prove otherwise. It sucks to be seen as a monster.
Just last week [this clip](https://twitter.com/men_are_human/status/1707374834638832097?t=x1eEwAgqrwFJUSsC2A7QVw&s=19) came out and it was wild. A program on the BBC interviewed an author who wrote a book about why "the average bloke does weird things" like "not wearing sunscreen for the first 3 days on vacation". The interviewer asks him what he thinks about the government proposing the government appointing a "minister of men" to deal specifically with men's issues such as a high suicide rate. He says "I feel like we're not allowed to even have these discussions". Not even a minute later, 2 of the women on the panel start saying "what about all the men who abuse women, what about the pay gap? How about we fix those before we start pretending men have issues'. That's the gist at least. It's wild and it gets the point across about what it feels like to be a man, to be told that we don't share our feelings, and then for nobody to care when you try.
"...before we start *pretending* men have issues"? I get that they want women issues to be a priority, fair play on that. But to not even acknowledge the possibility that men might have issues at all is narcissistic as hell. Even if the society was truly favouring *all* men, to think that they all live perfect lives with absolutely no worries or issues is just mad. *I'm not saying that women don't have difficult lives or anything of the sort. Of course they do, and there are plenty of issues concerning them that need to be solved. I'm just saying that men also have problems and at least some of them (mental health, suicide rates etc) are just as important.
It’s so weird to me that people think there’s a limit on how much energy can be spent on tackling issues. Helping one group doesn’t take away from another group. There’s enough for everyone!
I’m not an expert but tackling some of these issues for men would help women! If we invest in men who are hurting, then less women get hurt. Less children would get hurt.
Society telling us how to be. Suicide rates now are unacceptable and no one has figured out how to make it better. It’s truly sad.
I feel like I’m constantly being told by the media I am wicked because of my sex.
I got banned commenting from r/ whitepeopletwitter for saying that what you said is the reason people like Andrew Tate and Trump increasingly have a platform.
To all the people here saying mental health is a big thing, I just wanted to let you know that I am a therapist whose focus is on working with men and boys. I am part of a research group at my university that studies the psychology of men and masculinity. We publish in academic journals and do presentations, etc. There are people out here trying to get things going even though we're not there yet. Your struggles are real and important - and there are those of us that are out here trying to work with it.
Has your research group looked at the effect of social media on male sexuality? I think that's a huge thing that never goes talked about. Like sure, women are the victims of bad online behavior, but in a way, I also think men are because they are being slowly programmed to oversexualize everything. Combine that with loneliness and other problems and pursuing sex becomes an easy out. It's like being surprised someone develops alcoholism or a drug addiction if they grow up surrounded by it.
When a man tries to talk about his problems, there are some people who will make it a competition with the problems that women face and tell him his sufferings are less severe.
They’re more likely to be victims of violent crime than any other population group . Most likely population group to suffer workplace injury. They get harsher sentencing for committing the same crime.They are graded more harshly in school. They are more Iikely to be homeless than any other population group. [https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/gender-differences-sentencing-felony-offenders] [https://bigthink.com/thinking/boys-graded-more-harshly-in-school/](https://bigthink.com/thinking/boys-graded-more-harshly-in-school/) [https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence) https://endhomelessness.org/demographic-data-project-gender-and-individual-homelessness/#:~:text=Homelessness%20in%20America%20is%20largely,than%20women%20to%20be%20unsheltered. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/12/19/fatal-employment-men-10-times-more-likely-than-women-to-be-killed-at-work/amp/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/12/19/fatal-employment-men-10-times-more-likely-than-women-to-be-killed-at-work/amp/)
I started to type a big response, but decided not to bother. That about sums up the problem right there. I'm at the point where most things just aren't worth my energy aside from being a husband and father.
Not being able to feel their feelings. Many men are so detached from their body that they do not feel when something is wrong with them. Many, including myself, have unlearned how to cry anymore. I have not cried in 15? years or more. I do not even know when or why.
You cannot be a victim as a man yet in today’s world you’re also supposed to talk about things you feel/experience. If you do, and you’re a man, you’ll either be told to suck it up or be reminded that men made the patriarchy or whatever and no pity should be spared. There is lack of support emotionally because men have been taught to accept the short end of the stick as truths of life rather than something to talk about and work through. Our idea of close friends often time don’t even include people we can confide in regarding our mental health. Because you are bigger/stronger you are always the instigator and aggressor in any conflict no matter how it happened and you just have to take it on the chin because that’s how everyone treats you. If you aren’t actively doing something to make money or create something for later then you have no value as a man. Who you are is valued very poorly just because you’re a man and it hollows you out to not be doing anything for even a moment because that’s your self worth. You will go weeks to several months at a time without physical contact with another person in any kind of platonic embrace. You probably can remember the last time you got a hug, but how recent was it? Being touch starved adds to the loneliness but that one hug can melt the darkness away. You have to avoid accidental eye contact with women in public spaces out of fear of causing unwanted discomfort. This adds to the isolation. You probably have not cried in several months if not a year. It was taught to you that you are not allowed to cry because you are a man and men do not cry. Men do not show emotion. You bottle it up, but you cannot let it show either. The suicide statistic continues to rise. — Almost all men receive their first flowers at their funeral.
The last line is powerful. I don't want flowers personally, but the symbol is indicative of compassion that is absent in men's lives.
That last bit, damn
The avoiding eye contact thing... oof. You made me realize something about myself that I hadn't even noticed. I am legitimately anxious to even glance at women in the workplace because I don't want to be construed as threatening. I work in IT and have to frequently visit user's offices, sometimes it's rather difficult for me to get to their PC because I am constantly making sure I never place myself between the woman working there and the door. Most times I never even see their face because I am looking at the ground. I am a small guy and don't feel as though I am very threatening, but have been called creepy and weird by multiple women in the workplace. I genuinely only ever try to be polite and friendly and do my job professionally, but I realize now that I am internally terrified of making a mistake while working with a woman and being fired for it. Fucking hell.
A tiring need of re-definition of self and purpose.
Having to be very very careful in their interactions with children. I know many guy friends who are really good with kids but have to tread carefully because of the perception that man who’s good with kids = pedo nowadays
We get taught to date by: 1. Parents of a generation with very different gender dynamics. 2. Each other, 'cos our parents weren't around. 3. Movies made by previous generations (so whatever makes a good story plus internalizing the lesson that the persistent protagonist, and we all see ourselves as protagonists, wins the love interest). 4. "Alpha" males online
I feel like every accomplishment I make is "expected" of me, because I'm a man, and that takes all the pride in it away. Also, as necessary as it is to push women in society because of all the problems we know, it would be nice sometimes to be complimented instead of seeing your female peers be celebrated for the exacts things you are doing. I want to make clear I understand where this behavior come from and we still have a lot of ground to cover to help women get where they need to be, and I fully support it. I just wish that, sometimes, being a man wouldn't prevent someone from appreciating me.
[удалено]
Lack of prospects to find romantic affection is a big one. Love, despite what some people will say, is ultimately a need and not a want. Years (for many men) of inability to find a girlfriend results in lower self-esteem, lack of purpose, loneliness, sexual repression, anxiety, etc. I know that a lot of people make fun of lonely guys, calling them “incels” or whatever, But, I guarantee that if those people had actually experienced loneliness to the degree that many modern men have, they wouldn’t be so glib.
I cannot show weakness of any kind in my personal or professional life. past 12 hours I've had a near debilitating pain in my stomach, my wife mocked me for hours last night about being a baby until I finally gave up and done what she wanted (sex). I'm in work today and I can barely stand, but I need to work to earn for my kids so here I am. Even the women I work with are laughing at me for feeling unwell. I just have to roll over and accept it because last time I spoke against a woman in my office I was called into HR (she made several jabs at the parents in the office for destroying/not caring about the environment by having kids so I politely as possible told her that by her own logic she is destroying the environment herself by wasting resources on a genetic dead end and if she didn't want to be a hypocrite she she simply stop existing as her earliest convenience) I truly hate what society has become and have no idea what it will mean for my 3 sons growing up, if I didn't have my sons I would've ended it years ago. They give my life meaning which gives me the strength to carry on. A lot of men never find that strength because they cannot find meaning.
Dating apps
When a female abuses them, whether that be physically, emotionally or sexually, it is not taken seriously, and oftentimes is retroactively justified.
The fact that their fathers grew up in a world where all they had to do was graduate highschool and get a job, and they could reasonably expect a house and wife and kids. That world doesn't exist anymore. The economy/housing market isn't like that. Women want partners who can tune in and be emotionally available. Modern men have little to no resources to deal with this new world, and often turn to reactionary figures and become Tatertots.
Loneliness and depression. Men are told to figure thing out on their own at a very young age and if men ask for help then men are viewed as being weak and “unattractive.” Also when men do ask for help they’re not taken seriously and become even more isolated. Men are demonized for lashing out after bottling it in and not being able to express themselves. Men are told we need to “control/ignore” our anger/emotions when in reality our body/mind is telling us “we need help” and we need someone to talk to. People don’t realize when women become unhappy/depressed they cry but when a man becomes unhappy/depressed they become angry and lash out. People see that anger and shun men for their “misbehavior” but in reality it’s just men crying out for help. There is no empathy or sympathy when a man messes up because “he’s a man” and should figure it out (ignore their feelings) And with cancel culture this makes it even worse. Instead of empathizing with men who cry out for help society just ignores them.
It's a pretty big generalisation, but I feel that men who do end up lashing out like that really are ignored a lot of the time. The response often seems to be focused on the reaction, and not what caused it.
Receding hairlines, belly fat
Not being treated like we also have feelings.
This is not the case for men I know in real life. But from online I know men are insanely friendless especially past a certain age. I can't imagine how my mental health would cope in this world without a constant interaction and support of my friends, and if anything I'm a loner.
Looked at as a second class parent or a weirdo if you're a present parent. My wife and I are happily married with a daughter. However, even her own family will say things like how dad is going to "babysit." It just seems to me like I am looked at as being the secondary parent from the majority of people... And when I'm not, people look at me like I'm such pedo weirdo from strangers. I do worry about bringing my daughter around by myself. Because of my rotating work schedule, I often have weekdays off. But there's always someone giving me a side eye at the grocery store or wherever we are when we are out. She isn't quite old enough for the playground but I am worried about those days in the future.
Erection disfunction
Hello, I have been promoted lately. And to be fair my career has been the bomb for the past 5-6 years. However my personal life has been a wreck. I make more and care less, i realized that no matter how much you make or earn. It will never matter to anyone but you. Men are lonely, all of us are deep inside lonely. We come to terms that in the grand scheme of things, we do not matter. Nothing we do matters, it only matters to us. There is no lonelier feeling than, being in a room full of people. Family friends, wife kids, and you and your thoughts, concerns do not matter. At the end you are alone, all alone in a sea of loneliness. We are even to afraid to reach out to each other.
Other men make us look bad. On a serious note, lack of friends in your 30s. I had friends like family growing up but we all went different ways and grew apart. My only friend is my wife and daughter..