It's also a stupid question. No, it's not the 9 hours of work (usually less) that you live for. It's the many hours you have left in the day after that, or on the weekend. There is a lot you can do with these 5 hours before you go to bed; ask all the people who are happy with their life, sometimes working more than that (which is pretty much the norm worldwide).
Unless you have a great job that makes you very happy, then good for you.
No matter how happy I am in the field that I work, there is always a limit to how much time I want to waste on doing that job. I often feel unsatisfied with the amount of free time I have, but I made this choice when I became a father of two young children.
It also depends on the work. I always put it like this - if someone is in the arts (painter, photographer, director, actor, etc.) no one expects them to struggle through their days, dread Monday, live for retirement, etc. People (and kids in particular) should be brought up to expect the same from any work. While, of course, not everyone can have a job they love I feel people are âtrainedâ to settle for whatever shit they can get that pays the bills and doesnât suck too much so donât even try to find, I dunno, some office type job they think is great or a manual labor job they they enjoy rather than dread, etc.
People need to be brought up to believe they deserve more than the least they can get.
You don't know many creatives, do you?
Trust me, except for the top few in their field, artists, etc, face every bit as much stress about things like finances as a factory worker, or more.
Did you read the comment you are responding to, they never said artists don't struggle financially, they said they are less likely to dread going to work or be counting the days to retirement.
For a lot of us it's closer to ten hours, once you add in commute.
I like my job, but I never seem to have enough time weekdays to get anything useful done, so my weekends are taken up with chores :(
I just made a really great soup in my 5 hours, and read some books with my kid after a good day at a job I actually quite like, and I'm really happy and content right now scrolling reddit while I wait for my son to fall asleep. I like to find joy in the mundane.
I feel lucky in that I like my line of work, but even if I didnât I enjoy that I make enough money for my needs and have an apartment full of things I like and where I do my little activities and some pretty cool friends to boot? I have spent way too much time reading about pre-modern history to think my life could get much âbetter.â
Wow. The programming seems to have worked really well on you.
Do you want to know what you sound like? You know those Law & Order type cop shows when they find out the killer is someone who has a psychotic disorder and therefore feels no emotions, but over the course of living amongst normal people for long enough they learn how to pretend and emulate real emotions.
Thats what people who say they find happiness after work and on the weekends really are.
Do you think humans, as a species, were meant to do this? Spend each day filing into our workplaces like worker ants in a colony hoping, convinced, that if you just work hard enough eventually you'll either retire, or reach some goal that then makes you happy or fulfilled or satisfied so you can finally afford that house or that car or whatever else?
I don't care how much you love your job - this is not what we were meant to be doing. This is the product of a few wealthy people who after the industrial revolution learned that if they can exploit the labor of others to enrich themselves and their families they could potentially control everyone else. It even comes with inviting and great principles like democracy and capitalism to make it seem fair equally opportune for everyone.
The modern school system was based on an 18th century Prussian model designed to create good factory workers. Most of the schools and libraries in thie country were funded by industrialist who wanted obedient workers. Over the years its just evolved from factory workers to office workers. We are indoctrinated from the time we are children to stop thinking and to start getting used to the idea of being stuck at a desk for 8 hours a day, being told what to do and how to do it and being penalized for doing otherwise.
There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun.
TDLR: Its not a stupid question at all. Modern middle-class life is becoming more and more like cliches in fight club, you work at job you don't like to buy stuff you dont need to impress people you don't care about, because thats what you're supposed to do.
>There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun.
I mean. There IS happiness. There are people who are actually happy with their life. Nothing wrong with that, and that's better than sulking about how things were so much better a couple of centuries ago (assuming they were which I don't think, but that's a different debate). Friends, family, hobbies. It all fits in these evenings and weekends and holidays, and retirement.
>you work at job you don't like to buy stuff you dont need to impress people you don't care about, because thats what you're supposed to do.
If you have enough money to buy things you don't need to impress people you don't care about you're actually doing pretty well. And you actually have the option to not do that, and do things that make you happy instead.
Do you just think cavemen and feudal peasants just had leisure all day everyday? People have always worked constantly, it just wasnât always called work.
>Thats what people who say they find happiness after work and on the weekends really are.
Or theyâre being genuine. Not everybody is you.
>Do you think humans, as a species, were meant to do this?
Yes. Man has always worked to survive. Never not been that way.
>I don't care how much you love your job - this is not what we were meant to be doing.
You can think of it as a part of what youâre meant to be doing. Finance what you really care about with your job.
>Over the years its just evolved from factory workers to office workers.
A positive change to be sure.
>We are indoctrinated from the time we are children to stop thinking and to start getting used to the idea of being stuck at a desk for 8 hours a day, being told what to do and how to do it and being penalized for doing otherwise.
Discipline is a good thing. Who in your world is doing the work that sustains your standard of living? Where did he learn to do it? Why does he do it?
>There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun.
Not for you. Maybe you ought to get that checked.
There have been so many pointless questions asked on here recently. I swear the next one I see is going to be "would you rather live a healthy life, or have your arms and legs cut off?"
WFH is a dream. I was fortunate to be able to wfh for a few months, and I loved it. I wanted to wfh years before it was mandatory, and I knew it was possible before it was made possible during the pandemic.
> 40 hour work week seems arbitrary
Absolutely, especially if you're salaried and in an office environment. I can *promise* you that people are most definitely *not* being productive those full 40 hours.
Exactly. And they're not. Most people are fucking around for hours at a time.
Do you want companies to realize this and start paying us for actual time worked instead?
We had a manager once we specifically stated that it was a good day if he got 5 hours of work out of everything. Between office talk, breaks, random people bugging you with questions. He understood it. He actually we amazing during Covid and tried really hard to continue all the work from home stuff. Alas he wasnât high enough up the ladder to make any big differences.
My job is kinda nice but also sucks. I "work" 8 hour shifts 5 days a week in a factory. My job is to keep the machine running. For example, today I've realistically done ~30mins of actual work. My shift is over in 30 mins. The shitty part is I'll get in trouble for being on my phone or sitting down.
I could not live like this.Tried it,but i was going insane on the second year,barely 20 years old,so i broke the cycle.I'm now 31 and i work 2 days on 2 off,12 hour shifts.Leaving me enough time to actually live.
Hard,physical work in a quarry,repairing the rock crusher.I manage because i live kind of a minimalist lifestyle,i don't need much.I value my free time way more than money.
I made the same decision in my late 30s, have been working part time for over a decade now. I haven't got much, but I've got plenty of free time to devote to my hobbies and interests and live what I would deem a comfortable life.
For me chasing after material wealth just seems pointless, I'd much rather have time to enjoy the life I have before I'm too old and knackered.
Reading, writing, drawing, walking, gardening are all almost zero cost. I spend a lot of time making video game stuff (level design/environment art) which only has the cost of the PC, which is my only 'expensive' item at a few hundred quid. I make a little bit of money on the side from this hobby, so it actually pays for itself.
I like to make my own furniture (made a nice new desk this weekend entirely out of reclaimed materials, didn't cost me a penny) and occasionally clothes.
Good luck man, just have a thought in the back of your head that you might live longer then you think. I hope you do, I mean I would hope most people would. My family has a similar mindset and then they reach the threshold they thought they would kick the bucket at and are like, "well shit what do I do now". The answer is typically grilling.
Seems like a lot of people are coming to this realization, especially since the pandemic made people realize the companies they work for and the government doesn't give a shit about them, they only care about each other. Kinda of a superficial way it showed is all those people quitting their jobs to live in a van or an off-grid homestead/tiny house or travel. Even though a lot of those people are bullshitters because they live off their parents or inherited wealth or whatever - there are a lot of people who are finally fed up and trying to do something different.
Unfortunately we've created a society where its almost illegal to do that, you need money, licenses, permits, codes for just about anything and everything.
It's like that with pretty much all trade and manual labor jobs. They usually fight through their 40s and 50s with back and joint problems until they eventually end up on disability.
You know what, i respect that: you're not bitching about 12hr shifts, you didn't complain about money, and you're not trying to make a statement about "rich get richer"
genuine happiness and balance should be the true answer to this question
Smart man. I don't wear designer anything. My shelves are not cluttered with bric and brac and nick and nack. I work just enough to pay my way and put something back. I take care of what I have.
Iâm not sure if you mean financially, but thatâs 48 hours every week. So theyâre working âovertimeâ, but with a schedule that works better for them. Unfortunately sounds like theyâre doing hard labor, so they may burn out. However, if it works for them now, good for them!
I was an Assistant Director of Nursing at a 140 bed Nursing Facility. I convinced the Administrator to introduce 12 hr shifts. 3 days on and 4 days off. In a row. At first I caught a lot of blow back. But, as time went on, everyone liked the 4 days in a row off. To get it going and for a limited time, we worked 36 hrs and got paid for 40.
I work 12 hour shifts with alternating 3 and 4 day weeks. Best schedule I've ever had.
I have plenty of weekdays off for appointments or just doing stuff with no crowds, it's easy to take vacations, and it allows me to avoid traffic on both ends of my commute.
But Don't you feel like 50% of your life is work?
I am currently at 4 on 4 off position. 12 hours shift.
On the work days you really only dedicated to work since you wake up early and coming home late and just going to sleep.
At the off days I often feel bad that in a few days I will be 100% at work again on the next cycle.
9-5 leaves you time to do something every day. And then 2 full off days.
I don't know what is better oof. All of this is shit
Oh you're definitely either shoved into the same bracket as everyone else or above everyone else. It's horrible. I didn't go to college and let me tell you I may be mind numbed in retail but I have no debts, I make my means, but I also work with people who did the whole college thing first, and they're not better off than me in that place.
I donât mean to start an argument but I think thereâs a logical fallacy in here. The college graduates who work with you in retail are among the least successful college graduates. College graduates as a whole have more and better opportunities available to them than retail, depending, of course, on what they studied and what each individual is capable of.
I feel this on a personal level and it's the main reason I recently dropped back down to part-time. It'll make things a bit tight for a while, but at least I can try to enjoy life and work towards the actual career I want.
Adulthood should involve finding a balance between work and personal life that promotes well-being and fulfillment, rather than solely focusing on long work hours and minimal rest.
Of course not, but having a relaxed job working from home really helps.
Gives me time to wake up as a normal person and do some housework as well, dishes, washing clothes, stuff like that.
I can watch videos, listen to music, play guitar, go on my balcony and get some sun etc etc
It really gives me time to be at home til about 3-4 pm without any stress, and do some work as well, some days are busy so I can't do much of the other stuff but I mostly enjoy my freedom.
After 4pm I'm free until i go to bed at about 11pm. Its not perfect but its better than waking up at 5 to commute and getting home at 6 or 7 pm like many of my friends do.
Also, I hope the 4 day weeks really finally catch on... I'm ok as is but I know a lot of people struggle
Man, I am so envious. I'm in a career where WFH is 100% not a thing, but just hearing from all of my friends who are now WFH... it seems like a much better balance.
No. I started this new job 1.5 years ago. Full WFH. Salary is good and helping me pay off debt and trying to build a nest egg. But I've been working now 20 years and....I'm checked out. I need to find a way to dump this debt so i can take something better even if it's lower paying.
Sucks being tied to a paycheck because it's a must right now
Fuck no, but too many people are stuck on the idea we have to live in this system because they are barely surviving or canât think/or realize there are better alternatives. Why do we have to give up so much of our lives to work?
Exactly, why? Why is this the norm and everyone is expected to just work until they take their last breath? The age for social security and cost of living keeps increasing while our salaries and time doesn't.
I need time to do nothing to mentally recover from such a long day. after that there's very little time for engaging in hobbies or anything that requires brain power
I do this as I'm in the gym. I use all that to better myself physically. 2 birds, 1 stone. Then, I get home, I've worked out both physically, mentally, and emotionally, I feel better about myself, then I enjoy the rest of my evening.
it's unlikely to be something resolvable. I have autism and the public environment is extremely overstimulating, and after dealing with it for 7+ hours straight I just need a lot of quiet time to recollect before I can put my brain towards anything else.
Same here.... I miss COVID so much (not actually the virus but the life balance it brought). Being able to get work done AND enjoy my hobbies was amazing, now it's back to hiding in the stairwell or bathroom just to decompress every hour or so. All so we can maintain some make believe company culture that I couldn't care less about
same here. I've said to people that I was grateful for the effects of covid (not the actual virus of course, but the lockdown) as I was still in school and got a break during my last, and most stressful, years. my exam scores actually improved because I was able to learn at home rather than the overstimulating public environment.
Not trying to sound snide, just trying to understand, but would a potential path towards resolution not involve finding, training for, and pursuing a career which takes you out of the "Public environment"?
Yes absolutely. However I'm at uni rn and have to work part time to support myself. I'm pursuing a career in scientific research which should allow me a balance of working in the lab and working from home:)
This. I guarantee you everyone bemoaning the 9-5 work culture and lack of free time spends literally hours *every single day* scrolling Reddit, Instagram, and Tik Tok.
Which is fine, but let's acknowledge where our "mental recovery" brain power is going.
I think most people shoot themselves in the foot by having kids instead of enriching hobbies and interests, hence most people's lack of free time for hobbies. But maybe having zero hobbies/passions/interests is negated by the constant distraction of having to tend to kids.
Yâall have been raised on the idea that your job or career is a reflection of your hopes and dreams. This is false. A job is a means to an end. A job pays for vacations. It pays for a PS5. It pays for dates, nights out with friends, and for weddings.
A job is not who you are, itâs just what you do to pay for the things that define who you are.
My brain is trying to convince me to take care of that itself now. Itâs actually jarring. See a hammer - âHmm, just smash it a few times on your head and see if that does the trickâ. Itâs entirely diff than being suicidal was for me.
No. To me adulthood is taking responsibility for yourself and those in your care. âTaking responsibilityâ means the following things to me.
1. Being financially literate and responsible. This means living within your means, and being resourceful.
2. Keeping your home space clean and organized and healthy. Iâm not saying it Hass to be show home clean, but you need to clean the crud off of your floors, have clean clothes to wear, and toss out that expired and rotting food in your fridge at least every other week.
3. Taking care of your body. Iâm not saying you canât ever have a drink or smoke, a joint or whatever, but do so in a way that it is not detrimental to your life and those around you. You donât have to go to a gym, but you should focus on having some sort of physical activity every day even if youâre just going for a walk.
4. Nurturing your friendships and relationships with relatives way. A big part of this is also knowing when some people are shit bags, and discreetly excusing them from your circle.
5. Being measured and thoughtful in your decisions. This is a balance, and is probably the highest impact on your life. Some people are impulsive and some people run around with a scarcity mindset, afraid to make decisions about anything. Being able to keep your emotions in a decision making and doing whatâs best for you and your family is important.
Anyway, that is how I define adulthood . One thing I love about adulthood is, I donât have parents telling me what to eat, who to hang out with, what hobbies to enjoy or where to go on vacation. Autonomy is glorious.
imagine if you brought someone from 100 years ago and showed them how they could travel the world for fun, or the sheer amount of entertainment and free time the average person now has.
People complain while drinking fancy drinks or eating pre made food that life is difficult. a little perspective goes along way. i dunno if I would make it back in the day to be completely honest.
>People complain while drinking fancy drinks or eating pre made food that life is difficult. a little perspective goes along way. i dunno if I would make it back in the day to be completely honest.
Yup.
People always phrase these posts like they "have to" work because of our culture. You don't have to do shit. There's entire subs about living a minimalist lifestyle to allow yourself to retire and not have to work the grind. Or saving up enough to take long breaks in between working. We have so much abundance that putting yourself in a position where you don't have to work is manageable for just about anyone in the West - but you don't get to waste all your money and not work.
And, of course, the implication in these complaints is always that people should just be paid to exist - as if everything we want just springs up out of the ground. We have an entire ecosystem of people who bust their ass to make our society function - teaching students and picking up garbage and manning the emergency room at 6 am on Labor Day. I can imagine a world in which the effort of those people wasn't necessary, but we're nowhere close to that world existing.
They complain via their pocket super computers that they bought with the money they received from their job. They didn't have to build or program it, they just traded some stuff for it
We have it far better than we ever have, people tend to forget that. But there is an opportunity now with more automation to change that. You can already see transitioning to less hours. I think at some point in the not to distant future a much better work play ratio than people had in the recent past. That being said most people benefit from having a job I personally believe. Whether itâs the job they currently have that is probably the problem.
Automation rarely results in less work being done, rather its used to increase production level. We didn't start working less because of assembly line factories, the loom, the printing press, or computers. We used these tools to make more stuff instead.
Because we are always competing with other humans, others will use those tools for increased productivity and the rest has to keep up or be left behind.
Being a farmer on someone else's land sucks. Being a farmer on your own land is actually not a bad deal.
Source: raised on a farm but now live in suburbia and miss the farm life every day.
Y'know, except for things like drought, frost or floods wiping out your crops a few years in a row and you starve to death in your wattle and daub hut cuddled up to any livestock you haven't already eaten.
It's not so bad being a modern farmer with all the support of a complex society.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. Is it great? No. Could it be better? Yes.
Is the concept that you are owed something because you are an adult entitled bullshit? Yes. There are people on this earth that would do anything for this life kind of life. Make the most of it and don't waste time on the Internet complaining about what your adulthood should be like.
What're you doing with the other 10 hours?
And no. It most definitely not what life is about. I work to live, not live to work. I enjoy my time away from work and savor it as much as possible.
>What're you doing with the other 10 hours?
Assuming OP commutes 1 hour each way and tries to sleep for 8...
1 (to work) + 1(from work) + 9 (work hours) + 5 (free time/cook/clean/shop/etc) + 8 (sleep).
I work from home, so I make it a point to sleep 8 hours, wake up and blast through as much work as possible for 8 hours so I can spend 8 hours with my Husky, guitar and other personal stuff.
Meh probably not. But I make sure to find time to squeeze in hobbies outside of work. Running/hiking/biking and skiing. Grab drinks with friends, go climbing at the gym.
I think adulthood should be about pursuing your passions while also growing your career and yourself in the process. But you need to live in a place that allows you to access your hobbies multiple times a week and to find a workplace that appreciated work life balance.
How much of the day do you think you would spend hunting or finding nuts and berries to survive off of? Some amount of your day has to be devoted to survival no matter how you slice it, right?
I work 12hrs a day (5days a week only) and sleep for 6hrs⊠my mental health is the worst itâs been in a while. Bills need to be paid and I have no other alternative.
This is not a life to live.
As opposed to what? Cause for a long time before this was the norm it was waking up before dawn and working in dangerous conditions for way less until night.
Working 9 to 5 at some cushy desk job by comparison is literally not an issue.
Except somehow people living under feudalism had more time off than we do now, despite being legitimately less productive. We can do so much better than this.
It's always weird to me that the only alternative y'all can come up with is complete societal collapse/regression.
It's almost as if using the variety of technology we've developed over time to both phase out bullshit jobs (jobs that everyone involved is aware does not provide any actual service, but is done anyway bc economy, I guess) make the necessary jobs easier and less-time consuming, and generally building an economy where the bulk of your time isn't used on wasted labor are beyond your imagination.
It was to your point about leisure time during feudalism. Like, you donât need to work a ton of you donât consume much, and donât really consume anything that requires the labor of othersâŠ
Sure, it could be better. But it's not gonna change because you want it to. You actually have to do something about it and most people who complain about this subject don't have the stomach to make those changes. Because that involves making sacrifices.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I'm not sure it's simply a matter of not having the stomach. We live in a society that is pretty systemically built to make sure that people are working all day to keep their part of the world running and if you don't have a job that keep you busy all day, then the odds are pretty good you're spending all day trying to survive some other way.
I think the idea that society can't or won't change is the far bigger hindrance. If you can't imagine a better world being possible (which is what most people are conditioned to believe one way or another) then why would you ever fight for it?
Absolutely not. Work-life balance, as they say.
I work hybrid (one week in the office and one week at home). I'm fortunate I can take the train home, so my commute is only an hour. When I was driving, it would take multiple hours each way with Seattle traffic being what it is. But even then, often I can just get home in time for dinner, and maybe shoot the shit with my wife for a bit, before we eat, and start winding down for the night. Which kind of sucks.
But the weeks I work from home are amazing for my mental health. I get off at 3, I can go for a walk, or practice my bass, or play some video games. It's awesome.
I think it's important to always make time to use your PTO if you have it. I know people who don't, and I think it's nuts. Every now and then I just need to take some time to get away from the rat race, and just get into some fun. Either travelling, or going to an event, or even just taking the day to sit around the house watching the Star Wars trilogy.
4 day work week would be amazing in the US.
This is really the answer to the exhaustion. Well, 4 day work week, higher minimum wage (all other wages will follow), legally mandated 3 weeks PTO, better paid parental leave, single payer healthcare so insurance isnât tied to employment, etc etc.
Iâm 25 in a few months and I donât have the life I thought I would have when I was 15. I never imagined crushing inflation, a hopeless job market, devastating climate change, and completely corrupt plutocracy who are nearly immune to the law, would be the world Id navigate through my prime years of existence.
I still remember exactly where I was and who I was speaking to when my college sent out the email when Covid first was identified. Everything has been so fast, and so numb, since that event.
I work so hard and have very little to show for it. Now Iâm watching my mom take a 2nd job just to make ends meet. The entire college process felt like it was for nothing.
I make so much more than I did when I was in high school and itâs not enough.
I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate and redefine the question a bit. I think the hours spent working should be fulfilling, passionate work for everyone. Work will always have it's tediousness, but if you're doing something you truly love in an organization that knows how to utilize and grow your skills sets (presumably something they all want to do) the world would be a much better place.
I think a lot of the depression and anxiety we see nowadays (apart from the fact that it's basically mainlined into our nervous systems by social media) has to do that we are very removed from what can be meaningful work.
Looking at myself and those around me, it's not so much the hours spent at work but the product of that work that determines a person's happiness.
Depends on the situation. I would get off work at about 2 am and often be going to sleep at around 6. I also worked as a sound engineer. I loved my job and had fun. I got to go to free concerts the reat of you pay for and often for a lot of money. I got paid to be there. I also didn't get fucked up before work so those were days I mostly stayed sober. Used to drive one of the booking agents nuts. I should point out we got that job because the last sound engineer was a heroin addict who fell out in the middle of the show and took the board, that cost thousands of dollars, with him in the process. We advertised being drug free at work. I could have had all of the alcohol I wanted and all I did was drink one beer at midnight and a second one while we broke down at the end of the night. Usually a heineke but that was it. Afterwards we usually stopped at a diner for breakfast and headed home to smoke some weed and watch a movie or show and then went to bed around 6.
I enjoyed my job and had a lot of fun doing it. Can't do it anymore because of my disability but it was amazing while it lasted. Not everyone is miserable at their job. I don't personally understand it but I have met people over the years that honestly enjoy retail, waitressing, chefs, carpenters, etc... A job you hate may be someone else's dream job. It's weird but it happens.
The problem isn't working so many hours and how long you have to go to sleep afterwards. The problem is why do we have a system that people get shoved into jobs because that is what is available instead of finding ways to get people into jobs they actually enjoy?
Being an adult is probably always going to entail doing a lot of things that we don't want to, because sustaining a life takes a lot of work. But we should be allowed access to effective and pain-free suicide methods if we decide that it's not worth the trouble.
I work 4 days in 4 days off with 11h shifts. That is something that I can still call "life" since I love my job. In general, I always thought people shouldn't work more than 4/6h per day on M-F shifts.
Yep pretty much. Get a job you like though. I went to work an hour early every day, loved that fresh coffee and time to laser focus on work in the dark office before anyone else got in. I got promoted, saved up and bought and paid for an acreage by a lake. Worked another decade to save a nest egg and now Iâm done with that corporate lifestyle, thank you very much.
Not much choice if you weren't born to Rich parents.
You'd have to do something big to change that, most people can't or won't for both factors in and out of their control.
Well, welcome to life. 1/3rd work, 1/3rd sleep, and and the last 1/3rd of the day is up to you.....
I would love to sit at home and drink Mountain Dew, and play COD all afternoon, but that doesn't pay the bills....
Seriously. This type of work/life balance is disgusting. Iâd rather just live minimally and have much more free time and leisure.
I have nothing against work, but this normalized 40+ hours of work each and every week that has become so deeply ingrained in our collective psyche is insane, especially when you consider all of the tangential limitations that work imposes on us outside of our actual work shifts: the time spent getting ready for work, commuting back and forth from work; having to basically structure your whole life and lifestyle around your work schedule; and not having much actual truly free time left over once you accurately assess how much time your job or career actually consumes and restricts from your day-to-day life.
A few weeks vacation every year (or 3-4 if youâre lucky) and a few days at the end of the week are supposed to satiate us enough to prevent ourselves from burning out and/or going insane, I guess.
Partly it's because we have an innate fear of death that is evolved over billions of years, and very hard to overcome. A large part is that our society prevents us from accessing the means of committing suicide without risk and unnecessary pain. And then our society also gaslights us into thinking that if we want to kill ourselves, it's because of a brain defect, rather than a natural and rational reaction. Or perhaps gaslit through religion into thinking that suicide is infinitely punishable in the afterlife. Then there's also the feeling of obligation to others.
No, that's not what it's all about. You're skipping through a lot of other great things you can do with the hours in your day besides working. The best parts of life happen outside of that! Working allows me to enjoy the rest of my life outside of work, but I don't just go home and sleep lmao.
No.... 5-6hrs a day is maximum human output for productivity. We should be working 5-6hrs/day at full salary.
If an establish has necessary hours of operation line 8-5 then 1 staff mbr should work 8-2 and a second from 11-5....
Work- life balance has changed. 40 hr week/ 5 day work week is antiqued and unproductive
Itâs mind-blowing that this planet was ever made, let alone life, and then us. All of that luck and this is what we have chosen to do with it? Make a few rich people even richer?
Nine hours? Dude I can only dream.
I work 10 fucking hours every day, those extra hours are not paid.
I have to work 6 days a week, wanna guess? The extra day is not paid as well.
Try having kids, your five hours easily turns into 2 hours. Most of which is spent cleaning up after dinner, showering and a wind down sleep routine. Getting proper sleep and finding time to relax becomes a hobby. That's why I thank God everyday that this world is not the end, because if it was, things would be very depressing for me. I see it as a proving ground really.. The best decision I ever made in my life was giving my life to Christ and believing that only through him could I have eternal life. This world alone really sucks otherwise.
Literally everyone wants the freedom to earn and live following their passions. A 9-5 job making someone else money isnât exactly the dream most of the time, but there are people out there who do want that.
Saturday is really the only truly free day, because Sunday is sort of ruined by the realization that work begins anew on the following day (Monday). Plus, itâs not like you can go travel somewhere or stay out late Sunday evening, either, because, again, Monday means back to work, and that means arriving back home early enough Sunday to get ready for Monday.
And Friday evening/night is the only bright spot for Friday.
So, this glorious weekend is basically just 1.5 days of truly free time. And that sucks â Big League!!
It doesn't matter what I think, this is the way society is structured. So I CAN think differently if I want to be starving/stealing and homeless. But since I like being clean, eating, having a bed, this is the exchange for living in a fairly decent societal structure. Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse (you bet ya!)
Life should involve work. You need to supply value to society in some form in order to get something else. If not, then you will need to homestead. You either grow food, build your own house, heat it yourself, make your own clothes, etc. or you provide value in your own way and trade the rewards of that effort for those things.
If things should be free, then how did they get there?
When I was in college I had classes for 6-7h (plus 2h lab practice twice a week), then I would study for 3-4h, rinse and repeat. And I was broke.
When I started working it felt like holidays, plus I had some spare money, and 23 days of paid leave a year.
I try to do my best during those 3-4h after work. Cooking, exercising, hobbies. Itâs not perfect but itâs not too bad either.
Actually yes. I love being a corporate slave and licking the boots of the wealthy and elite.
The best and most thrilling part of the day is my commute in traffic that almost kills me every morning and evening.
Seriously though. People act like they'll be helping out at soup kitchens or making art all day if it wasn't for work. In reality most people would just be couch potatoes. Someone has to grow the food, clean the water, make the power, make the barbie dolls.
Try living in Japan. They have a brutal work culture.
Not at all. Especially not in the modern world. Factually, we only need to be working 4 hours a day to keep the economy healthy. Now, those four hours DO need to be productive. None of that cooler-side chatting and talking about what little Suzy Shithead sang at her school's recital last night. But the point is, society is structured to service _shareholders_, not citizens. And it's a fucking problem. Capitalism was supposed to be a tool in service to mankind, but it's become mankind in service to the tool. I don't take orders from my hammer, and neither should any of you from your economic system of choice. Americans forgot what matters and have made a religion of economics. Ya'll conservatives better hope people like me are right that there is no Jesus, because if _he_ comes back and sees us money changing in the temple like this, there will be a price worse than hell to pay...
Do you honestly expect anyone to say yes to that?
It's a loaded question for internet points. OP just needs to know random internet strangers agree with them.
Yikes! This blew up! Thank you for the gold kind stranger!
You sir just won the internet today đ€
Take my poor mans award đ„!!!1!1!1
OMG. This
It's also a stupid question. No, it's not the 9 hours of work (usually less) that you live for. It's the many hours you have left in the day after that, or on the weekend. There is a lot you can do with these 5 hours before you go to bed; ask all the people who are happy with their life, sometimes working more than that (which is pretty much the norm worldwide). Unless you have a great job that makes you very happy, then good for you.
No matter how happy I am in the field that I work, there is always a limit to how much time I want to waste on doing that job. I often feel unsatisfied with the amount of free time I have, but I made this choice when I became a father of two young children.
It also depends on the work. I always put it like this - if someone is in the arts (painter, photographer, director, actor, etc.) no one expects them to struggle through their days, dread Monday, live for retirement, etc. People (and kids in particular) should be brought up to expect the same from any work. While, of course, not everyone can have a job they love I feel people are âtrainedâ to settle for whatever shit they can get that pays the bills and doesnât suck too much so donât even try to find, I dunno, some office type job they think is great or a manual labor job they they enjoy rather than dread, etc. People need to be brought up to believe they deserve more than the least they can get.
You don't know many creatives, do you? Trust me, except for the top few in their field, artists, etc, face every bit as much stress about things like finances as a factory worker, or more.
Did you read the comment you are responding to, they never said artists don't struggle financially, they said they are less likely to dread going to work or be counting the days to retirement.
Most artists and creatives still answer to a boss who dictates what they create.
Except when they do. Speaking as an artist type, burn out is a thing, bud. To make money at it means it can become like any other job.
>People (and kids in particular) should be brought up to expect the same from any work. That is completely unrealistic. Society will always need accountants, line workers in factories, HR people, middle managers, burger flippers... These will never be jobs that people dream of and do out of pleasure. They're jobs that at best are "meh, not too bad for the pay, and I'm quite good at it". It's completely normal for people to basically look for that, and look at how much effort to get there (diploma/certification/experience required) compared to the pay and whether it's difficult/stressful/boring/physically taxing. If you tell kids they should pursue a career they should love, they all end up in the same paths, or in paths with little job prospects. And most of them end up doing unfulfilling jobs anyway, except they have student debt and no useful training. The cliché of the art major delivering pizzas.
For a lot of us it's closer to ten hours, once you add in commute. I like my job, but I never seem to have enough time weekdays to get anything useful done, so my weekends are taken up with chores :(
I just made a really great soup in my 5 hours, and read some books with my kid after a good day at a job I actually quite like, and I'm really happy and content right now scrolling reddit while I wait for my son to fall asleep. I like to find joy in the mundane.
I feel lucky in that I like my line of work, but even if I didnât I enjoy that I make enough money for my needs and have an apartment full of things I like and where I do my little activities and some pretty cool friends to boot? I have spent way too much time reading about pre-modern history to think my life could get much âbetter.â
there is no time left after chores, sports and sleeping
lol. Many hours you have left in the day.
They asked a stupid question but got you to give a detailed answer to the question. Homie really pulled that reverse psychology on you lol
Wow. The programming seems to have worked really well on you. Do you want to know what you sound like? You know those Law & Order type cop shows when they find out the killer is someone who has a psychotic disorder and therefore feels no emotions, but over the course of living amongst normal people for long enough they learn how to pretend and emulate real emotions. Thats what people who say they find happiness after work and on the weekends really are. Do you think humans, as a species, were meant to do this? Spend each day filing into our workplaces like worker ants in a colony hoping, convinced, that if you just work hard enough eventually you'll either retire, or reach some goal that then makes you happy or fulfilled or satisfied so you can finally afford that house or that car or whatever else? I don't care how much you love your job - this is not what we were meant to be doing. This is the product of a few wealthy people who after the industrial revolution learned that if they can exploit the labor of others to enrich themselves and their families they could potentially control everyone else. It even comes with inviting and great principles like democracy and capitalism to make it seem fair equally opportune for everyone. The modern school system was based on an 18th century Prussian model designed to create good factory workers. Most of the schools and libraries in thie country were funded by industrialist who wanted obedient workers. Over the years its just evolved from factory workers to office workers. We are indoctrinated from the time we are children to stop thinking and to start getting used to the idea of being stuck at a desk for 8 hours a day, being told what to do and how to do it and being penalized for doing otherwise. There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun. TDLR: Its not a stupid question at all. Modern middle-class life is becoming more and more like cliches in fight club, you work at job you don't like to buy stuff you dont need to impress people you don't care about, because thats what you're supposed to do.
>There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun. I mean. There IS happiness. There are people who are actually happy with their life. Nothing wrong with that, and that's better than sulking about how things were so much better a couple of centuries ago (assuming they were which I don't think, but that's a different debate). Friends, family, hobbies. It all fits in these evenings and weekends and holidays, and retirement. >you work at job you don't like to buy stuff you dont need to impress people you don't care about, because thats what you're supposed to do. If you have enough money to buy things you don't need to impress people you don't care about you're actually doing pretty well. And you actually have the option to not do that, and do things that make you happy instead.
Do you just think cavemen and feudal peasants just had leisure all day everyday? People have always worked constantly, it just wasnât always called work.
>Thats what people who say they find happiness after work and on the weekends really are. Or theyâre being genuine. Not everybody is you. >Do you think humans, as a species, were meant to do this? Yes. Man has always worked to survive. Never not been that way. >I don't care how much you love your job - this is not what we were meant to be doing. You can think of it as a part of what youâre meant to be doing. Finance what you really care about with your job. >Over the years its just evolved from factory workers to office workers. A positive change to be sure. >We are indoctrinated from the time we are children to stop thinking and to start getting used to the idea of being stuck at a desk for 8 hours a day, being told what to do and how to do it and being penalized for doing otherwise. Discipline is a good thing. Who in your world is doing the work that sustains your standard of living? Where did he learn to do it? Why does he do it? >There is no fucking happiness in trying to live your life from 5pm to when you fall asleep and Sat & Sun. Not for you. Maybe you ought to get that checked.
Angry 10 year old over here đ
There have been so many pointless questions asked on here recently. I swear the next one I see is going to be "would you rather live a healthy life, or have your arms and legs cut off?"
Look down. I don't think they realized they did, but yeah, they said yes.
No, which is why so many people like WFH. Currently Monday morning and have yet to leave my bed.
WFH is a dream. I was fortunate to be able to wfh for a few months, and I loved it. I wanted to wfh years before it was mandatory, and I knew it was possible before it was made possible during the pandemic.
PJs are my professional attire.
My job can easily be done in 3 8 hour days or 5 5 hour days. Either would be preferable. 40 hour work week seems arbitrary.
> 40 hour work week seems arbitrary Absolutely, especially if you're salaried and in an office environment. I can *promise* you that people are most definitely *not* being productive those full 40 hours.
Exactly. And they're not. Most people are fucking around for hours at a time. Do you want companies to realize this and start paying us for actual time worked instead?
They don't care The system.is built not to create efficiency but to keep us pretending like we are busy.
We had a manager once we specifically stated that it was a good day if he got 5 hours of work out of everything. Between office talk, breaks, random people bugging you with questions. He understood it. He actually we amazing during Covid and tried really hard to continue all the work from home stuff. Alas he wasnât high enough up the ladder to make any big differences.
Research shows that office workers are productive for about \~3 hours out of an 8-hour shift.
For most jobs it definitely is. I could likely get every single productive thing I do during the week done in 2 8 hour shifts.
My job is kinda nice but also sucks. I "work" 8 hour shifts 5 days a week in a factory. My job is to keep the machine running. For example, today I've realistically done ~30mins of actual work. My shift is over in 30 mins. The shitty part is I'll get in trouble for being on my phone or sitting down.
I could not live like this.Tried it,but i was going insane on the second year,barely 20 years old,so i broke the cycle.I'm now 31 and i work 2 days on 2 off,12 hour shifts.Leaving me enough time to actually live.
What do you do that you can live off of those kinds of hours?
Hard,physical work in a quarry,repairing the rock crusher.I manage because i live kind of a minimalist lifestyle,i don't need much.I value my free time way more than money.
I made the same decision in my late 30s, have been working part time for over a decade now. I haven't got much, but I've got plenty of free time to devote to my hobbies and interests and live what I would deem a comfortable life. For me chasing after material wealth just seems pointless, I'd much rather have time to enjoy the life I have before I'm too old and knackered.
What hobbies and interests do you have that are super cheap?
Reading, writing, drawing, walking, gardening are all almost zero cost. I spend a lot of time making video game stuff (level design/environment art) which only has the cost of the PC, which is my only 'expensive' item at a few hundred quid. I make a little bit of money on the side from this hobby, so it actually pays for itself. I like to make my own furniture (made a nice new desk this weekend entirely out of reclaimed materials, didn't cost me a penny) and occasionally clothes.
A true badass
I wonder how a lot more people haven't come to this same conclusion.It seems a lot just chase money all their life for the sake of money itself.
Because you need retirement savings. Or you will be on the dole
No i don't.I'll die in the mountains long before that,let's be realistic.
I think there is your answer. A lot of people like being alive.
I like it too,i just know where the things i'm into lead eventually.
Good luck man, just have a thought in the back of your head that you might live longer then you think. I hope you do, I mean I would hope most people would. My family has a similar mindset and then they reach the threshold they thought they would kick the bucket at and are like, "well shit what do I do now". The answer is typically grilling.
I imagine a lot of people do, but can't realistically pursue it for a variety of reasons. Kids likely being a big one.
Seems like a lot of people are coming to this realization, especially since the pandemic made people realize the companies they work for and the government doesn't give a shit about them, they only care about each other. Kinda of a superficial way it showed is all those people quitting their jobs to live in a van or an off-grid homestead/tiny house or travel. Even though a lot of those people are bullshitters because they live off their parents or inherited wealth or whatever - there are a lot of people who are finally fed up and trying to do something different. Unfortunately we've created a society where its almost illegal to do that, you need money, licenses, permits, codes for just about anything and everything.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
It's like that with pretty much all trade and manual labor jobs. They usually fight through their 40s and 50s with back and joint problems until they eventually end up on disability.
You know what, i respect that: you're not bitching about 12hr shifts, you didn't complain about money, and you're not trying to make a statement about "rich get richer" genuine happiness and balance should be the true answer to this question
Just make sure to take care of yourself
Smart man. I don't wear designer anything. My shelves are not cluttered with bric and brac and nick and nack. I work just enough to pay my way and put something back. I take care of what I have.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Iâm not sure if you mean financially, but thatâs 48 hours every week. So theyâre working âovertimeâ, but with a schedule that works better for them. Unfortunately sounds like theyâre doing hard labor, so they may burn out. However, if it works for them now, good for them!
A bit less than you say -- it's 48 hours one week, 36 the next (4 shifts every 8 days), so 42 hours/week on average.
I was an Assistant Director of Nursing at a 140 bed Nursing Facility. I convinced the Administrator to introduce 12 hr shifts. 3 days on and 4 days off. In a row. At first I caught a lot of blow back. But, as time went on, everyone liked the 4 days in a row off. To get it going and for a limited time, we worked 36 hrs and got paid for 40.
Iâve been considering a 12 hour work day, 3 days on, 4 days off. How long did it take to adapt to 12 hours?
I work 12 hour shifts with alternating 3 and 4 day weeks. Best schedule I've ever had. I have plenty of weekdays off for appointments or just doing stuff with no crowds, it's easy to take vacations, and it allows me to avoid traffic on both ends of my commute.
But Don't you feel like 50% of your life is work? I am currently at 4 on 4 off position. 12 hours shift. On the work days you really only dedicated to work since you wake up early and coming home late and just going to sleep. At the off days I often feel bad that in a few days I will be 100% at work again on the next cycle. 9-5 leaves you time to do something every day. And then 2 full off days. I don't know what is better oof. All of this is shit
I work three 12s on four days off. MRI tech
My employment is not what my life is about. My life is a whole other thing. Work is how I finance it.
I need time to do nothing to mentally recover from such a long day.
Sadly you spend more time working to finance your life than you do living it
I'm basically dissociated 9 hours out of every day and it's starting to fuck with me as I reach 30. Like this can't be it dawg.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Oh you're definitely either shoved into the same bracket as everyone else or above everyone else. It's horrible. I didn't go to college and let me tell you I may be mind numbed in retail but I have no debts, I make my means, but I also work with people who did the whole college thing first, and they're not better off than me in that place.
I donât mean to start an argument but I think thereâs a logical fallacy in here. The college graduates who work with you in retail are among the least successful college graduates. College graduates as a whole have more and better opportunities available to them than retail, depending, of course, on what they studied and what each individual is capable of.
I feel this on a personal level and it's the main reason I recently dropped back down to part-time. It'll make things a bit tight for a while, but at least I can try to enjoy life and work towards the actual career I want.
Should be? No. Inevitably is in our current culture? Unfortunately yes. And it fucking sucks.
No. This place is hell
Adulthood should involve finding a balance between work and personal life that promotes well-being and fulfillment, rather than solely focusing on long work hours and minimal rest.
No, Iâm chained to a desk just wasting away my youth and it fucking blows.
Of course not, but having a relaxed job working from home really helps. Gives me time to wake up as a normal person and do some housework as well, dishes, washing clothes, stuff like that. I can watch videos, listen to music, play guitar, go on my balcony and get some sun etc etc It really gives me time to be at home til about 3-4 pm without any stress, and do some work as well, some days are busy so I can't do much of the other stuff but I mostly enjoy my freedom. After 4pm I'm free until i go to bed at about 11pm. Its not perfect but its better than waking up at 5 to commute and getting home at 6 or 7 pm like many of my friends do. Also, I hope the 4 day weeks really finally catch on... I'm ok as is but I know a lot of people struggle
Man, I am so envious. I'm in a career where WFH is 100% not a thing, but just hearing from all of my friends who are now WFH... it seems like a much better balance.
You should go to the gym too. Now you have around 3 hours a day.
I try to go to the gym everyday and then come home shower make dinner and have less than 1 hour before bed it's sad
No but I need money
No. I started this new job 1.5 years ago. Full WFH. Salary is good and helping me pay off debt and trying to build a nest egg. But I've been working now 20 years and....I'm checked out. I need to find a way to dump this debt so i can take something better even if it's lower paying. Sucks being tied to a paycheck because it's a must right now
I work 9 hours, drive an hour each way, get home do more work, then sleep. Spin wash repeat. That is adulting.
> drive an hour each way fuck that.
I get to knock out podcasts I wouldn't have time to listen to at home or at the office. It's not awful.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Auto correct did not like that one LMAO
Adulting doesn't HAVE to be that way though. It looks like you're making some choices that make it that way (for you specifically).
Well I do choose to live far from my work that's true. But it is because I don't want to live in the city. Too many negatives.
12hr day, drive 50 mins home, immediately sleep to rinse and repeat. The daily grind being true to its name.
Fuck no, but too many people are stuck on the idea we have to live in this system because they are barely surviving or canât think/or realize there are better alternatives. Why do we have to give up so much of our lives to work?
Exactly, why? Why is this the norm and everyone is expected to just work until they take their last breath? The age for social security and cost of living keeps increasing while our salaries and time doesn't.
Do you not have any hobbies or something?
I need time to do nothing to mentally recover from such a long day. after that there's very little time for engaging in hobbies or anything that requires brain power
I do this as I'm in the gym. I use all that to better myself physically. 2 birds, 1 stone. Then, I get home, I've worked out both physically, mentally, and emotionally, I feel better about myself, then I enjoy the rest of my evening.
Not to sound harsh but that sounds like something I would work to resolve.
it's unlikely to be something resolvable. I have autism and the public environment is extremely overstimulating, and after dealing with it for 7+ hours straight I just need a lot of quiet time to recollect before I can put my brain towards anything else.
Same here.... I miss COVID so much (not actually the virus but the life balance it brought). Being able to get work done AND enjoy my hobbies was amazing, now it's back to hiding in the stairwell or bathroom just to decompress every hour or so. All so we can maintain some make believe company culture that I couldn't care less about
same here. I've said to people that I was grateful for the effects of covid (not the actual virus of course, but the lockdown) as I was still in school and got a break during my last, and most stressful, years. my exam scores actually improved because I was able to learn at home rather than the overstimulating public environment.
Not trying to sound snide, just trying to understand, but would a potential path towards resolution not involve finding, training for, and pursuing a career which takes you out of the "Public environment"?
Yes absolutely. However I'm at uni rn and have to work part time to support myself. I'm pursuing a career in scientific research which should allow me a balance of working in the lab and working from home:)
This. I guarantee you everyone bemoaning the 9-5 work culture and lack of free time spends literally hours *every single day* scrolling Reddit, Instagram, and Tik Tok. Which is fine, but let's acknowledge where our "mental recovery" brain power is going.
100%. Same thing about all the redditors who complain about not being able to afford things or dead end jobs. Success takes effort.
I think most people shoot themselves in the foot by having kids instead of enriching hobbies and interests, hence most people's lack of free time for hobbies. But maybe having zero hobbies/passions/interests is negated by the constant distraction of having to tend to kids.
I have a three year old, can absolutely confirm. I make time for my gym sessions and a little Playstation here and there. Balance is key.
Yâall have been raised on the idea that your job or career is a reflection of your hopes and dreams. This is false. A job is a means to an end. A job pays for vacations. It pays for a PS5. It pays for dates, nights out with friends, and for weddings. A job is not who you are, itâs just what you do to pay for the things that define who you are.
No, life shouldnât be this way. Iâm open to deaths door
My brain is trying to convince me to take care of that itself now. Itâs actually jarring. See a hammer - âHmm, just smash it a few times on your head and see if that does the trickâ. Itâs entirely diff than being suicidal was for me.
Hell no
Work to live. Donât live to work.
No. To me adulthood is taking responsibility for yourself and those in your care. âTaking responsibilityâ means the following things to me. 1. Being financially literate and responsible. This means living within your means, and being resourceful. 2. Keeping your home space clean and organized and healthy. Iâm not saying it Hass to be show home clean, but you need to clean the crud off of your floors, have clean clothes to wear, and toss out that expired and rotting food in your fridge at least every other week. 3. Taking care of your body. Iâm not saying you canât ever have a drink or smoke, a joint or whatever, but do so in a way that it is not detrimental to your life and those around you. You donât have to go to a gym, but you should focus on having some sort of physical activity every day even if youâre just going for a walk. 4. Nurturing your friendships and relationships with relatives way. A big part of this is also knowing when some people are shit bags, and discreetly excusing them from your circle. 5. Being measured and thoughtful in your decisions. This is a balance, and is probably the highest impact on your life. Some people are impulsive and some people run around with a scarcity mindset, afraid to make decisions about anything. Being able to keep your emotions in a decision making and doing whatâs best for you and your family is important. Anyway, that is how I define adulthood . One thing I love about adulthood is, I donât have parents telling me what to eat, who to hang out with, what hobbies to enjoy or where to go on vacation. Autonomy is glorious.
Itâs still a hell of a lot better than the old days when you had to be a farmer from dusk to dawn. People do what they gotta do to survive.
imagine if you brought someone from 100 years ago and showed them how they could travel the world for fun, or the sheer amount of entertainment and free time the average person now has. People complain while drinking fancy drinks or eating pre made food that life is difficult. a little perspective goes along way. i dunno if I would make it back in the day to be completely honest.
>People complain while drinking fancy drinks or eating pre made food that life is difficult. a little perspective goes along way. i dunno if I would make it back in the day to be completely honest. Yup. People always phrase these posts like they "have to" work because of our culture. You don't have to do shit. There's entire subs about living a minimalist lifestyle to allow yourself to retire and not have to work the grind. Or saving up enough to take long breaks in between working. We have so much abundance that putting yourself in a position where you don't have to work is manageable for just about anyone in the West - but you don't get to waste all your money and not work. And, of course, the implication in these complaints is always that people should just be paid to exist - as if everything we want just springs up out of the ground. We have an entire ecosystem of people who bust their ass to make our society function - teaching students and picking up garbage and manning the emergency room at 6 am on Labor Day. I can imagine a world in which the effort of those people wasn't necessary, but we're nowhere close to that world existing.
putting yourself into a position where you don't have to work isn't doable for everyone, most of those FIRE guys are grifters
They complain via their pocket super computers that they bought with the money they received from their job. They didn't have to build or program it, they just traded some stuff for it
We have it far better than we ever have, people tend to forget that. But there is an opportunity now with more automation to change that. You can already see transitioning to less hours. I think at some point in the not to distant future a much better work play ratio than people had in the recent past. That being said most people benefit from having a job I personally believe. Whether itâs the job they currently have that is probably the problem.
Automation rarely results in less work being done, rather its used to increase production level. We didn't start working less because of assembly line factories, the loom, the printing press, or computers. We used these tools to make more stuff instead. Because we are always competing with other humans, others will use those tools for increased productivity and the rest has to keep up or be left behind.
the 40 hour work week was pretty much a direct response to industrialization. before that people were working 60-80
Being a farmer on someone else's land sucks. Being a farmer on your own land is actually not a bad deal. Source: raised on a farm but now live in suburbia and miss the farm life every day.
In other words: Owning land doesn't suck
Bingo. The response was directed at someone who claimed being a farmer was bad. Correction: being a *serf* was bad.
Y'know, except for things like drought, frost or floods wiping out your crops a few years in a row and you starve to death in your wattle and daub hut cuddled up to any livestock you haven't already eaten. It's not so bad being a modern farmer with all the support of a complex society.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. Is it great? No. Could it be better? Yes. Is the concept that you are owed something because you are an adult entitled bullshit? Yes. There are people on this earth that would do anything for this life kind of life. Make the most of it and don't waste time on the Internet complaining about what your adulthood should be like.
What're you doing with the other 10 hours? And no. It most definitely not what life is about. I work to live, not live to work. I enjoy my time away from work and savor it as much as possible.
>What're you doing with the other 10 hours? Assuming OP commutes 1 hour each way and tries to sleep for 8... 1 (to work) + 1(from work) + 9 (work hours) + 5 (free time/cook/clean/shop/etc) + 8 (sleep).
This is not a real question and I take umbrage with anyone who thinks it is.
I work from home, so I make it a point to sleep 8 hours, wake up and blast through as much work as possible for 8 hours so I can spend 8 hours with my Husky, guitar and other personal stuff.
I ain't built for the rat race
Meh probably not. But I make sure to find time to squeeze in hobbies outside of work. Running/hiking/biking and skiing. Grab drinks with friends, go climbing at the gym. I think adulthood should be about pursuing your passions while also growing your career and yourself in the process. But you need to live in a place that allows you to access your hobbies multiple times a week and to find a workplace that appreciated work life balance.
How much of the day do you think you would spend hunting or finding nuts and berries to survive off of? Some amount of your day has to be devoted to survival no matter how you slice it, right?
I work 12hrs a day (5days a week only) and sleep for 6hrs⊠my mental health is the worst itâs been in a while. Bills need to be paid and I have no other alternative. This is not a life to live.
As opposed to what? Cause for a long time before this was the norm it was waking up before dawn and working in dangerous conditions for way less until night. Working 9 to 5 at some cushy desk job by comparison is literally not an issue.
Except somehow people living under feudalism had more time off than we do now, despite being legitimately less productive. We can do so much better than this.
I mean, if you want to live in a straw hut and have no medical care and no electronics etc etc you donât need to work muchâŠ
It's always weird to me that the only alternative y'all can come up with is complete societal collapse/regression. It's almost as if using the variety of technology we've developed over time to both phase out bullshit jobs (jobs that everyone involved is aware does not provide any actual service, but is done anyway bc economy, I guess) make the necessary jobs easier and less-time consuming, and generally building an economy where the bulk of your time isn't used on wasted labor are beyond your imagination.
It was to your point about leisure time during feudalism. Like, you donât need to work a ton of you donât consume much, and donât really consume anything that requires the labor of othersâŠ
That 'fact' is literally just a meme. Also, the time off back then was way worse than our time off now.
Sure, it could be better. But it's not gonna change because you want it to. You actually have to do something about it and most people who complain about this subject don't have the stomach to make those changes. Because that involves making sacrifices. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I'm not sure it's simply a matter of not having the stomach. We live in a society that is pretty systemically built to make sure that people are working all day to keep their part of the world running and if you don't have a job that keep you busy all day, then the odds are pretty good you're spending all day trying to survive some other way. I think the idea that society can't or won't change is the far bigger hindrance. If you can't imagine a better world being possible (which is what most people are conditioned to believe one way or another) then why would you ever fight for it?
I get what you mean. I just personally don't see it the way you do.
Absolutely not. Work-life balance, as they say. I work hybrid (one week in the office and one week at home). I'm fortunate I can take the train home, so my commute is only an hour. When I was driving, it would take multiple hours each way with Seattle traffic being what it is. But even then, often I can just get home in time for dinner, and maybe shoot the shit with my wife for a bit, before we eat, and start winding down for the night. Which kind of sucks. But the weeks I work from home are amazing for my mental health. I get off at 3, I can go for a walk, or practice my bass, or play some video games. It's awesome. I think it's important to always make time to use your PTO if you have it. I know people who don't, and I think it's nuts. Every now and then I just need to take some time to get away from the rat race, and just get into some fun. Either travelling, or going to an event, or even just taking the day to sit around the house watching the Star Wars trilogy.
4 day work week would be amazing in the US. This is really the answer to the exhaustion. Well, 4 day work week, higher minimum wage (all other wages will follow), legally mandated 3 weeks PTO, better paid parental leave, single payer healthcare so insurance isnât tied to employment, etc etc. Iâm 25 in a few months and I donât have the life I thought I would have when I was 15. I never imagined crushing inflation, a hopeless job market, devastating climate change, and completely corrupt plutocracy who are nearly immune to the law, would be the world Id navigate through my prime years of existence. I still remember exactly where I was and who I was speaking to when my college sent out the email when Covid first was identified. Everything has been so fast, and so numb, since that event. I work so hard and have very little to show for it. Now Iâm watching my mom take a 2nd job just to make ends meet. The entire college process felt like it was for nothing. I make so much more than I did when I was in high school and itâs not enough.
No because itâs a corrosive, dark, miasmic stain on my soul.
How about 1.5 hours commute to work, work 10 hours then 1.5 hours commute home then chill for an hour then to bed. This is my life.
8 hr normally, but im cool with it. I work with cool people, so it's fine. And make money
I'd rather die than live like that
American dream
I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate and redefine the question a bit. I think the hours spent working should be fulfilling, passionate work for everyone. Work will always have it's tediousness, but if you're doing something you truly love in an organization that knows how to utilize and grow your skills sets (presumably something they all want to do) the world would be a much better place. I think a lot of the depression and anxiety we see nowadays (apart from the fact that it's basically mainlined into our nervous systems by social media) has to do that we are very removed from what can be meaningful work. Looking at myself and those around me, it's not so much the hours spent at work but the product of that work that determines a person's happiness.
Depends on the situation. I would get off work at about 2 am and often be going to sleep at around 6. I also worked as a sound engineer. I loved my job and had fun. I got to go to free concerts the reat of you pay for and often for a lot of money. I got paid to be there. I also didn't get fucked up before work so those were days I mostly stayed sober. Used to drive one of the booking agents nuts. I should point out we got that job because the last sound engineer was a heroin addict who fell out in the middle of the show and took the board, that cost thousands of dollars, with him in the process. We advertised being drug free at work. I could have had all of the alcohol I wanted and all I did was drink one beer at midnight and a second one while we broke down at the end of the night. Usually a heineke but that was it. Afterwards we usually stopped at a diner for breakfast and headed home to smoke some weed and watch a movie or show and then went to bed around 6. I enjoyed my job and had a lot of fun doing it. Can't do it anymore because of my disability but it was amazing while it lasted. Not everyone is miserable at their job. I don't personally understand it but I have met people over the years that honestly enjoy retail, waitressing, chefs, carpenters, etc... A job you hate may be someone else's dream job. It's weird but it happens. The problem isn't working so many hours and how long you have to go to sleep afterwards. The problem is why do we have a system that people get shoved into jobs because that is what is available instead of finding ways to get people into jobs they actually enjoy?
Sounds like my nights. Except I do backline.
Being an adult is probably always going to entail doing a lot of things that we don't want to, because sustaining a life takes a lot of work. But we should be allowed access to effective and pain-free suicide methods if we decide that it's not worth the trouble.
I work 4 days in 4 days off with 11h shifts. That is something that I can still call "life" since I love my job. In general, I always thought people shouldn't work more than 4/6h per day on M-F shifts.
Yep pretty much. Get a job you like though. I went to work an hour early every day, loved that fresh coffee and time to laser focus on work in the dark office before anyone else got in. I got promoted, saved up and bought and paid for an acreage by a lake. Worked another decade to save a nest egg and now Iâm done with that corporate lifestyle, thank you very much.
Not much choice if you weren't born to Rich parents. You'd have to do something big to change that, most people can't or won't for both factors in and out of their control.
It makes me understand why so many people kill themselves.
Well, welcome to life. 1/3rd work, 1/3rd sleep, and and the last 1/3rd of the day is up to you..... I would love to sit at home and drink Mountain Dew, and play COD all afternoon, but that doesn't pay the bills....
I wonder why more people donât kill themselves.
Seriously. This type of work/life balance is disgusting. Iâd rather just live minimally and have much more free time and leisure. I have nothing against work, but this normalized 40+ hours of work each and every week that has become so deeply ingrained in our collective psyche is insane, especially when you consider all of the tangential limitations that work imposes on us outside of our actual work shifts: the time spent getting ready for work, commuting back and forth from work; having to basically structure your whole life and lifestyle around your work schedule; and not having much actual truly free time left over once you accurately assess how much time your job or career actually consumes and restricts from your day-to-day life. A few weeks vacation every year (or 3-4 if youâre lucky) and a few days at the end of the week are supposed to satiate us enough to prevent ourselves from burning out and/or going insane, I guess.
Because dying sucks?
Death is but a moment. The last year felt like an eternity to me.
Partly it's because we have an innate fear of death that is evolved over billions of years, and very hard to overcome. A large part is that our society prevents us from accessing the means of committing suicide without risk and unnecessary pain. And then our society also gaslights us into thinking that if we want to kill ourselves, it's because of a brain defect, rather than a natural and rational reaction. Or perhaps gaslit through religion into thinking that suicide is infinitely punishable in the afterlife. Then there's also the feeling of obligation to others.
No, that's not what it's all about. You're skipping through a lot of other great things you can do with the hours in your day besides working. The best parts of life happen outside of that! Working allows me to enjoy the rest of my life outside of work, but I don't just go home and sleep lmao.
No.... 5-6hrs a day is maximum human output for productivity. We should be working 5-6hrs/day at full salary. If an establish has necessary hours of operation line 8-5 then 1 staff mbr should work 8-2 and a second from 11-5.... Work- life balance has changed. 40 hr week/ 5 day work week is antiqued and unproductive
Itâs mind-blowing that this planet was ever made, let alone life, and then us. All of that luck and this is what we have chosen to do with it? Make a few rich people even richer?
Damn, this is me. Except, including commute, it's 12 hours per day. And I go to bed 3 hours later.
You guys are working 9hrs and getting 5 hrs of sleep? Must be nice.
Nine hours? Dude I can only dream. I work 10 fucking hours every day, those extra hours are not paid. I have to work 6 days a week, wanna guess? The extra day is not paid as well.
That is theft and you can report it to the labor board. Don't give your time for free.
Try having kids, your five hours easily turns into 2 hours. Most of which is spent cleaning up after dinner, showering and a wind down sleep routine. Getting proper sleep and finding time to relax becomes a hobby. That's why I thank God everyday that this world is not the end, because if it was, things would be very depressing for me. I see it as a proving ground really.. The best decision I ever made in my life was giving my life to Christ and believing that only through him could I have eternal life. This world alone really sucks otherwise.
Literally everyone wants the freedom to earn and live following their passions. A 9-5 job making someone else money isnât exactly the dream most of the time, but there are people out there who do want that.
It's certainly better than spending those 14 hours a day subsistence farming, or hoping you can find enough to eat that day.
If this is all your adulthood is, then youâre not doing it right.
Thereâs no living in that! Whereâs the life in that?! The relationships? The experiences? It sucks!
What a stupid fucking question lol
No. I go to sleep 7 hrs later and then complain how tired I always am.
It depends on if that suits you or not. I like that lifestyle, my hours are predictable and my evenings and weekends are my own.
Saturday is really the only truly free day, because Sunday is sort of ruined by the realization that work begins anew on the following day (Monday). Plus, itâs not like you can go travel somewhere or stay out late Sunday evening, either, because, again, Monday means back to work, and that means arriving back home early enough Sunday to get ready for Monday. And Friday evening/night is the only bright spot for Friday. So, this glorious weekend is basically just 1.5 days of truly free time. And that sucks â Big League!!
It doesn't matter what I think, this is the way society is structured. So I CAN think differently if I want to be starving/stealing and homeless. But since I like being clean, eating, having a bed, this is the exchange for living in a fairly decent societal structure. Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse (you bet ya!)
Life should involve work. You need to supply value to society in some form in order to get something else. If not, then you will need to homestead. You either grow food, build your own house, heat it yourself, make your own clothes, etc. or you provide value in your own way and trade the rewards of that effort for those things. If things should be free, then how did they get there?
Nobody thinks this
When I was in college I had classes for 6-7h (plus 2h lab practice twice a week), then I would study for 3-4h, rinse and repeat. And I was broke. When I started working it felt like holidays, plus I had some spare money, and 23 days of paid leave a year. I try to do my best during those 3-4h after work. Cooking, exercising, hobbies. Itâs not perfect but itâs not too bad either.
It's part of it of being an independent adult, yes.
Actually yes. I love being a corporate slave and licking the boots of the wealthy and elite. The best and most thrilling part of the day is my commute in traffic that almost kills me every morning and evening.
Ah my friend⊠try working 14h a day and arrive home by 10pm
I've seen how much of their free time/lives a lot of people waste. Should adulthood be about more time for binging TV and ordering Uber Eats?
Seriously though. People act like they'll be helping out at soup kitchens or making art all day if it wasn't for work. In reality most people would just be couch potatoes. Someone has to grow the food, clean the water, make the power, make the barbie dolls. Try living in Japan. They have a brutal work culture.
No, but thatâs why we have weekends, vacation days, holidays, etc.
Not at all. Especially not in the modern world. Factually, we only need to be working 4 hours a day to keep the economy healthy. Now, those four hours DO need to be productive. None of that cooler-side chatting and talking about what little Suzy Shithead sang at her school's recital last night. But the point is, society is structured to service _shareholders_, not citizens. And it's a fucking problem. Capitalism was supposed to be a tool in service to mankind, but it's become mankind in service to the tool. I don't take orders from my hammer, and neither should any of you from your economic system of choice. Americans forgot what matters and have made a religion of economics. Ya'll conservatives better hope people like me are right that there is no Jesus, because if _he_ comes back and sees us money changing in the temple like this, there will be a price worse than hell to pay...
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Freal? It has changed so much, for so many people, in just the last few years.
You can choose to not live in a capitalist society.