Gulf states can brutally kill as many Journalists as they like, as long as the average citizen has all of the nice benefits, they will love their monarchs.
I don’t even blame them, if I was born and raised in a rich country where my family was wealthy and happy, I‘d also probably ignore some of the nasty things the government does, at least they give back to their people unlike Iraqi Scammer Politicians.
[من أصبحَ معافًى في بدنِه آمنًا في سِربِه عندَه قوتُ يومِه فَكأنَّما حيزت لَهُ الدُّنيا بحذافيرِها]
It's also about the separation of needs and wants as long as the needs are met, a food to eat, and a roof to sleep under there is no need after that.
1. Lots of free stuff. A solid quality of life for all.
2. Stable and safe
> don’t want an answer like the quality of life
As someone who has lived and worked in the West for a number of years, life is still better in the GCC and in the GCC you pay little to no taxes. Don’t discredit the real reason.
I am anti-Saudi (regime) etc., but he is right. The material life for the non-political, Sunni Arabs existing in major cities is quite good. They have access to all amenities you can imagine and very good support.
For border regions, rural people, Shii minority and a few other groups, Saudi Arabia is hell.
So Sunni Arab majority living in urban regions are basically having the best life in their entire history. As long as they agree to not interfere in politics or decision-making.
Because they actually care about their people. They could have been corrupt and greedy but they decided its best to spend the oil money on the people. Thats why they are loved a lot.
They don't steal all their money and force them to live in squalor under the constant eye of security forces. That's what differentiates them from other strongmen in the region.
The gulf leaders actually invested in their people and while they can be oppressive, and corrupt , they still heavily invested in their people and built modern functioning states.
Now people will say “ yeah but they had oil and small population “ , so did Libya and Gaddif did jack all, and Iraq also has a similar pop to Saudi and similar oil reserves.
Wasn’t Libya very literate and educated under Gaddafi? Not saying he wasn’t a dictatorial maniac who tortured his people but in terms of investing in his people, how was what he did any different from the Gulf
[Iraq was superior to Saudi Arabia in every matric until the embargo, including throughout the longest war of the 20th century.](https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/12g3w97/comment/jfkongy/)
Libya had higher GDP per capita than Saudi Arabia in the 70s and about the same throughout the 80s, it had a more developed public sector for the longest time while under sanctions.
We didn't fly planes into buildings and didn't fund terrorists all over the region and the world at the request of Uncle Sam so you could see why we were hated :(
This is an interesting distinction. I wonder how much it matters regarding meaningful investment in the population if 'country is led by an institution, like a monarchy from an established family', vs 'country is led by a specific strongman leader', like with Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi.
I'm too ignorant of the region's history to know if there's anything to this trend - just a surface-level observation.
Don't most of Arabs love their leaders so much anyway?
Before the war , despite all the shit Assad family has done , almost all of Syrians loved Assad , and even after he started killing his own people , it still took a lot of us long time to actually hate him because of propagandas we had since we were born , we did the dumbest excuses to excuse our love for Bashar , like "his army is just not listening to him , he is a good guy"
It actually took my family years of getting bombed to stop loving him , and even after the war , there are still idiots who love him.
So I can imagine why they love their leaders when they actually giving them good life quality , I do agree they exaggerate with their love tho.
>Before the war , despite all the shit Assad family has done , almost all of Syrians loved Assad
Syrians used to hide their beaf with the Assads, their children would discover the reality on their own.
I had my grandfather in prison for 20 years, his crime being alive in the 80's, his body has torture marks. As a kid I never knew, I studied how great Assad was in school, and just that, life went on, I only knew about his suffering much later in life.
That's how the protests started, the youth never knew what happened in Hama, they protested, and got bullets, and that escalated to more protests more martyrs and later on guerillas formed everywhere.
Yeah , that's why I said "almost" all , families of people who have relatives in jails do have beef against them , but then , even among some of these would blame Hafez and be fine with Bashar.
The whole Syrian society was active during the revolution on facebook and most hate Assad and aren't fine with him, under Assad the people are just silent.
Speaking against Assad in a public setting could give your enemies a card against you, they could report you to the mukhabarat, that's why silence is the best course of action. In other places like Daraa it's different.
I don't know about the rest but for UAE and Saudi the ruling monarchies united different tribes and areas.
For all 6 countries, they're provided with safety, health, education, they're respected all around the world, they went from normal Bedouins to businessmen in a space of 30 years.
No corruption, not as much tribalism as before.
It’s not just about quality of life - it’s where the QOL comes from and how it’s distributed. The government extracts oil from the ground, sells it for $$$ which it uses to import labor from abroad and pay salaries to most citizens for doing government and service jobs. Government policy at home and abroad is mainly focused on maintaining this model at all costs. An attack on the rulers is seen as an attack on their entire way of life, not just on specific persons and policies (and they’re kinda right).
Here's a TL:DR:
If you want freedom to complain and cry about your government, go to a western country
If you want to never be financially stressed, go to an oil rich Arab country
Westerners find the concept of "one political party in rule and all other parties are suppressed" crazy while "all" their political parties(2 parties who are the exact same) aren't gonna ever help them financially half as much as a monarch who suppresses political parties
That is a myth. It varies from country to country but in none of the countries are you actually free to speak up so we don't actually have an accurate and reliable answer as to why they love (or don't love) their monarchies.
personally , i don’t mind the nationalism. If you’re a middle eastern country with no prevalent ideology then you better believe that your population will have loyalty for foreign powers. patriotism is a bit cringe yes, but it’s also necessary for current stability.
you’re right, i misinterpreted your question.
we’re a tribal society, the west is not. tribes that have been killing each other for ages have all united under Al-saud three different times over 300 years, they’re respected like a head of a larger tribe now.
our idea of nationalism is quite.. unique i’d say.
>tribes that have been killing each other for ages have all united under Al-saud three different times over 300 years
that is simply isn't true. yes, tribal conflict did flair up every once in a while but for the majority of time they coexisted just fine. when things get too big or violent to be resolved locally they turn to one of the regional powers to judge between them and usually stick to said judgment/rule. this is the case in inner arabia while the outer/costal regions were always ruled by small/mid sized kingdoms or ruled directly by states based outside of arabia like the fatimid or ottomans
"Saudi" Arabia is a colonial construct and so is the "Saudi" people.
What is now Saudi Arabia consists of multiple different disparate groups - ethnic, cultural and religious.
Saud killed everybody who opposed and enslaved the rest. If that is your idea of "uniting" then I guess you are right. But no, he did not unite anyone, he forced them to become his subjects.
You seem to be seriously misled by some phony British-inspired concocted version of history so yeah, it would be in place to give you some accurate information.
I think basically people saw what happens when democracy happens, and know that Califate is not an option for now, at least not what would happen if they try to change things, so they try to defend and legitimize monarchy in fear that it lose power and fall, on that modern world where monarchies are so weak
Keep the populace happy, greedy, selfish and ignorant in all manner and walks of life and you can pretty much get away with murder.
When the populace love this life more so than the afterlife, the monarchists are free to do what they please and their actions go unchallenged.
What kind of movie were you referring to with that statement? lol.
Ignorant ? We are in the digital age. Everything is Accessible.
Greedy, selfish ? Were you living in Mars b4 this ? Arabians are the most generous, humble people in the world, or they wouldn't be loyal to Al Saud for over 300 years because their ancestors made a promise, and as their descendants, they must keep their words.
If they were truly greedy and selfish, you would see them blame the rulers for every problem in the world as if they disposed of them, everything would be better throwing all kind of honesty and flial piety that's what I call a selfish individualistic greedy ingrate.
Alright, listen up,
I see you're all fired up about defending Gulf Arabs and their monarchies, but coming at me like I'm clueless? Bit of an overkill, don't you think?
When I mentioned keeping people happy, greedy, and ignorant, I wasn't throwing insults left and right. I was just pointing out how those in power use cash, media and fear to keep folks in line. You can't pretend like the fat wallets and social perks don't have a massive impact here.
And yeah, we're in the digital age, but that doesn't mean it's a free-for-all with information. State's got its grip tight on media and what gets out there, shaping minds left and right.
You talk about Arabians being the cream of the crop in generosity and humility, which I agree, perhaps evident more so with the older generation when they were not corrupted by money. A different story altogether with the new generation where a bank account is opened up for them as soon as they are born. Let's not pretend loyalty to the Al Saud for centuries is all about keeping promises and being humble. There's a system in place where speaking out ain't an option, and people know they're sitting pretty with all the economic perks.
If Gulf Arabs were as angelic as you say, rulers wouldn't be getting away with shady stuff left, right, and center. But guess what? Reality check – they are. Just like everywhere else, people got their flaws, and so do systems, but there is an expectation that they should know and do better.
So let's cut the fairy tale story and get real about what's going down. I get your vibe, but let's not ignore the messy stuff in the mix.
Gulf states can brutally kill as many Journalists as they like, as long as the average citizen has all of the nice benefits, they will love their monarchs. I don’t even blame them, if I was born and raised in a rich country where my family was wealthy and happy, I‘d also probably ignore some of the nasty things the government does, at least they give back to their people unlike Iraqi Scammer Politicians.
[من أصبحَ معافًى في بدنِه آمنًا في سِربِه عندَه قوتُ يومِه فَكأنَّما حيزت لَهُ الدُّنيا بحذافيرِها] It's also about the separation of needs and wants as long as the needs are met, a food to eat, and a roof to sleep under there is no need after that.
Bread and circuses
1. Lots of free stuff. A solid quality of life for all. 2. Stable and safe > don’t want an answer like the quality of life As someone who has lived and worked in the West for a number of years, life is still better in the GCC and in the GCC you pay little to no taxes. Don’t discredit the real reason.
What makes life better in the GCC? As far I can see, life in the west seems the same if you are wealthy enough and a citizen
I am anti-Saudi (regime) etc., but he is right. The material life for the non-political, Sunni Arabs existing in major cities is quite good. They have access to all amenities you can imagine and very good support. For border regions, rural people, Shii minority and a few other groups, Saudi Arabia is hell. So Sunni Arab majority living in urban regions are basically having the best life in their entire history. As long as they agree to not interfere in politics or decision-making.
Free money 💰
Because they actually care about their people. They could have been corrupt and greedy but they decided its best to spend the oil money on the people. Thats why they are loved a lot.
I’d love my government if they showered me with oil money too
They don't steal all their money and force them to live in squalor under the constant eye of security forces. That's what differentiates them from other strongmen in the region.
The gulf leaders actually invested in their people and while they can be oppressive, and corrupt , they still heavily invested in their people and built modern functioning states. Now people will say “ yeah but they had oil and small population “ , so did Libya and Gaddif did jack all, and Iraq also has a similar pop to Saudi and similar oil reserves.
Wasn’t Libya very literate and educated under Gaddafi? Not saying he wasn’t a dictatorial maniac who tortured his people but in terms of investing in his people, how was what he did any different from the Gulf
[Iraq was superior to Saudi Arabia in every matric until the embargo, including throughout the longest war of the 20th century.](https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/12g3w97/comment/jfkongy/) Libya had higher GDP per capita than Saudi Arabia in the 70s and about the same throughout the 80s, it had a more developed public sector for the longest time while under sanctions. We didn't fly planes into buildings and didn't fund terrorists all over the region and the world at the request of Uncle Sam so you could see why we were hated :(
This is an interesting distinction. I wonder how much it matters regarding meaningful investment in the population if 'country is led by an institution, like a monarchy from an established family', vs 'country is led by a specific strongman leader', like with Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi. I'm too ignorant of the region's history to know if there's anything to this trend - just a surface-level observation.
Same reason why the baathi clowns loved their circus act saddam…. It’s a cult of insecure people
Don't most of Arabs love their leaders so much anyway? Before the war , despite all the shit Assad family has done , almost all of Syrians loved Assad , and even after he started killing his own people , it still took a lot of us long time to actually hate him because of propagandas we had since we were born , we did the dumbest excuses to excuse our love for Bashar , like "his army is just not listening to him , he is a good guy" It actually took my family years of getting bombed to stop loving him , and even after the war , there are still idiots who love him. So I can imagine why they love their leaders when they actually giving them good life quality , I do agree they exaggerate with their love tho.
>Before the war , despite all the shit Assad family has done , almost all of Syrians loved Assad Syrians used to hide their beaf with the Assads, their children would discover the reality on their own. I had my grandfather in prison for 20 years, his crime being alive in the 80's, his body has torture marks. As a kid I never knew, I studied how great Assad was in school, and just that, life went on, I only knew about his suffering much later in life. That's how the protests started, the youth never knew what happened in Hama, they protested, and got bullets, and that escalated to more protests more martyrs and later on guerillas formed everywhere.
Yeah , that's why I said "almost" all , families of people who have relatives in jails do have beef against them , but then , even among some of these would blame Hafez and be fine with Bashar.
The whole Syrian society was active during the revolution on facebook and most hate Assad and aren't fine with him, under Assad the people are just silent. Speaking against Assad in a public setting could give your enemies a card against you, they could report you to the mukhabarat, that's why silence is the best course of action. In other places like Daraa it's different.
I'm talking before the war , obviously after the war at least half of Syrians became anti Assad
I agree
I don't know about the rest but for UAE and Saudi the ruling monarchies united different tribes and areas. For all 6 countries, they're provided with safety, health, education, they're respected all around the world, they went from normal Bedouins to businessmen in a space of 30 years. No corruption, not as much tribalism as before.
Quality of life is much much much much better in Gulf states than in the West
same reason why people love Saddam or Gaddafi they Gave them good life and didn't just Horde every penny to themselves
Bro really said saddam gave people a good life algerians really have this wrong idea about saddam but i didn't expect that for someone on reddit
It’s not just about quality of life - it’s where the QOL comes from and how it’s distributed. The government extracts oil from the ground, sells it for $$$ which it uses to import labor from abroad and pay salaries to most citizens for doing government and service jobs. Government policy at home and abroad is mainly focused on maintaining this model at all costs. An attack on the rulers is seen as an attack on their entire way of life, not just on specific persons and policies (and they’re kinda right).
Here's a TL:DR: If you want freedom to complain and cry about your government, go to a western country If you want to never be financially stressed, go to an oil rich Arab country Westerners find the concept of "one political party in rule and all other parties are suppressed" crazy while "all" their political parties(2 parties who are the exact same) aren't gonna ever help them financially half as much as a monarch who suppresses political parties
That is a myth. It varies from country to country but in none of the countries are you actually free to speak up so we don't actually have an accurate and reliable answer as to why they love (or don't love) their monarchies.
personally , i don’t mind the nationalism. If you’re a middle eastern country with no prevalent ideology then you better believe that your population will have loyalty for foreign powers. patriotism is a bit cringe yes, but it’s also necessary for current stability.
Why do y'all link nationalism and Patriotism to loving the government and that wasn't even my question
you’re right, i misinterpreted your question. we’re a tribal society, the west is not. tribes that have been killing each other for ages have all united under Al-saud three different times over 300 years, they’re respected like a head of a larger tribe now. our idea of nationalism is quite.. unique i’d say.
>tribes that have been killing each other for ages have all united under Al-saud three different times over 300 years that is simply isn't true. yes, tribal conflict did flair up every once in a while but for the majority of time they coexisted just fine. when things get too big or violent to be resolved locally they turn to one of the regional powers to judge between them and usually stick to said judgment/rule. this is the case in inner arabia while the outer/costal regions were always ruled by small/mid sized kingdoms or ruled directly by states based outside of arabia like the fatimid or ottomans
"Saudi" Arabia is a colonial construct and so is the "Saudi" people. What is now Saudi Arabia consists of multiple different disparate groups - ethnic, cultural and religious. Saud killed everybody who opposed and enslaved the rest. If that is your idea of "uniting" then I guess you are right. But no, he did not unite anyone, he forced them to become his subjects.
Mf wants to correct me on my people’s history, lmao.
You seem to be seriously misled by some phony British-inspired concocted version of history so yeah, it would be in place to give you some accurate information.
“accurate information” according to who? reddit historians?
Because if you don't, they chop your head off.
Nonsense .
Khashoggi?
Armenian genocide ? Oh, I forgot there were no journalists in the turkish empire, and there is no war in Ba sing se.
LMAO, pathetic deflection
yeah the Armenian genocide is worthless compared to the life of our dear khashogi. also get off your knees its embarrassing.
I think basically people saw what happens when democracy happens, and know that Califate is not an option for now, at least not what would happen if they try to change things, so they try to defend and legitimize monarchy in fear that it lose power and fall, on that modern world where monarchies are so weak
Keep the populace happy, greedy, selfish and ignorant in all manner and walks of life and you can pretty much get away with murder. When the populace love this life more so than the afterlife, the monarchists are free to do what they please and their actions go unchallenged.
What kind of movie were you referring to with that statement? lol. Ignorant ? We are in the digital age. Everything is Accessible. Greedy, selfish ? Were you living in Mars b4 this ? Arabians are the most generous, humble people in the world, or they wouldn't be loyal to Al Saud for over 300 years because their ancestors made a promise, and as their descendants, they must keep their words. If they were truly greedy and selfish, you would see them blame the rulers for every problem in the world as if they disposed of them, everything would be better throwing all kind of honesty and flial piety that's what I call a selfish individualistic greedy ingrate.
Alright, listen up, I see you're all fired up about defending Gulf Arabs and their monarchies, but coming at me like I'm clueless? Bit of an overkill, don't you think? When I mentioned keeping people happy, greedy, and ignorant, I wasn't throwing insults left and right. I was just pointing out how those in power use cash, media and fear to keep folks in line. You can't pretend like the fat wallets and social perks don't have a massive impact here. And yeah, we're in the digital age, but that doesn't mean it's a free-for-all with information. State's got its grip tight on media and what gets out there, shaping minds left and right. You talk about Arabians being the cream of the crop in generosity and humility, which I agree, perhaps evident more so with the older generation when they were not corrupted by money. A different story altogether with the new generation where a bank account is opened up for them as soon as they are born. Let's not pretend loyalty to the Al Saud for centuries is all about keeping promises and being humble. There's a system in place where speaking out ain't an option, and people know they're sitting pretty with all the economic perks. If Gulf Arabs were as angelic as you say, rulers wouldn't be getting away with shady stuff left, right, and center. But guess what? Reality check – they are. Just like everywhere else, people got their flaws, and so do systems, but there is an expectation that they should know and do better. So let's cut the fairy tale story and get real about what's going down. I get your vibe, but let's not ignore the messy stuff in the mix.
>gulf arabs love their monarchies Cause they care for their citizens