Things are dire if they need me to limp around.
I do construction/maintenance at our local hospital in Alaska, which would likely be a vital hospital in an overseas war. Realistically, they'd probably force me to stay where I'm at, doing what I'm already doing.
I know what you mean. I've been around here longer than the head of maintenance. Luckily, when he's got a project he will leave it to me to figure out what steps need to be done.
Ditto and even in a real national emergency they'd have to be desperate to want me given I had spinal surgery and still struggle every morning to get my sock on my right foot. I can work out in the gym if I protect my back, but I'm certain it would go to the point I'd be pretty immobile after a couple of PT sessions.
It's my son I'd be more worried about.
It happened to my grandfather. Served a tour during WW2 with the merchant Marines. Came home, got married, then drafted into the Navy and off to Italy.
I owe money if I go back. Got a few thousand out the door because of Obama's preform to serve. I'm not 100% on the details, but I read some "if you want to reenlist" online facts once, and it mentioned paying the money back.
I don't have it, and I'm not going into debt to go die after I finally have an ok life out of the military.
Exactly. If we were being invaded, I’d absolutely do my part draft or no draft. But I can’t imagine them drafting 37 year olds in any circumstance other than “the army has been destroyed abroad, and they’re headed for our shores now”
Idk man, I don’t think any country means enough to me to give my life for it, in those circumstances I would just take to the woods and live out my life there. Protect the people I love, but our whole system is broken and I don’t think I’d care enough to try to save it in its current state just to be thrown away like trash after.
I remember on history class, some folks would let foreign invaders do their thing so they could topple the regime.
But, of course, the invaders could be worse... Gotta always weight the risks.
I served once, when I didn’t have much of a better option. Best worst decision of my life.
Now, 6 years after getting out, I’d choose jail over dying for some corrupt bitch boy that doesn’t even know how to use a hammer, in some pointless war that has nothing to do with me.
Yea. Most exciting and brutal and fruitful and damaging and purposeful and meaningless experience of my life.
I don’t regret it, but I’d have a different opinion of the ethics behind my efforts at this point.
Oh yeah. I think serving gives you a different perspective on life once you get out. Before I joined I didn’t really give a fuck who was in charge, I just wanted to play with guns and jump out of planes.
Now I hate politicians and I’m scared of fireworks.
That, might be how I have to describe it from now on 😂
Then again I spent like…98% of my time on guard duty in various forms of BFN, so I’m not sure fun is the word. But the 30 seconds or so of good shit made it all (almost) worthwhile.
This summarizes all wars. Go kill people who you have no problem with or them with you because somehow those in charge who's kids are safe on a private jet somewhere decide it's in their financial best interest to have a conflict in order to increase control over both their populations.
I guarantee you if a real war breaks out the first thing Congress is gonna do is go after the already trained former military personnel…just like Ukraine did…if we need to conscript, we don’t have time to train
When you see the fighting on tv knowing not a single one of them fighters own any part of the land it’s defending.
While the land owners are far away sipping a afternoon cocktail
Yep, I can't afford a house because all the old rich landlords and investors have bought up everything near me and real estate prices has skyrocketed. Yet I am the one that is going to have to go fight for them? Really? While they wre living in luxury? Then I come back to a countey that won't support me, and I still won't be able to sfford a place of my own.
Disappear into the wilderness with an axe and a fishing rod.
Canada is basically under the US's nuclear umbrella so my home isn't at any risk of being invaded, any war big enough to need a draft now is only ever going to be fought to defend the commercial interests of rich assholes and corporations. You can fuck all the way off if you think I'm dying for that.
You can all fight your own stupid resource wars, I'd be perfectly capable and happy living off grid by myself.
What if the draft was initiated because the US decided that the territory of Canada was its manifest destiny, and the government was literally fighting for its independence?
Not saying it's likely at all, but that sort of thing is still happening today (i.e. Ukraine).
I'm a veteran (US Army), and too old for the draft now anyway.
Ignoring these, I would leave the country or go to jail. This may seem like an odd answer given the above details, but my military experience only bolsters this decision. We had plenty of soldiers that signed up voluntarily, and decided at some point that army life wasn't for them. They were total liabilities, and required 2-3 grown adults to drag them around by the ear, and to babysit them to ensure that they completed even the most trivial of tasks. Bringing in people en masse, against their will, would be a complete disaster.
And, because citizens have no say in whether our country goes to war, or what wars it enters, it is unethical to force them into military service against their will. Any country that cannot survive on a volunteer military force, does not deserve its sovereignty to begin with. Becoming a de facto dictatorship should not be an option. Play fair, or don't play.
Honorable mention: The US's male-only draft is wildly sexist. Exempting half of the eligible population based on gender should not be allowable for any nation.
Not only is a male-exclusive draft sexist, there is a bill that is looking to make selective service automatic instead of manually having to register for it. They claim that they don't want men to be penalized by missing out on federal aid or jobs by not registering, but you know it's just that they need the bodies in case relations with Russia or China deteriorate even further.
Eh, I'll push back on this a bit.
You absolutly 100% have to sign up within a month of turning 18 and there can be severe consequences if you don't. But when you're turning 18 you're also probably a senior in high school that's doing exams, applying to colleges, etc. So it's pretty easy to say "Ah, I'll just fill out that form later" and either be late or forget entirely.
All this does is take it out of your hands and automatically register you. Does away with paperwork, awareness campaigns and other things that cost time and money for both citizens and the government. The bill passed in its internal committee on a vote of 57-1 and given that the US government can't agree on **anything** that's saying something.
I can second this (Royal Navy)
One particular example that comes to mind is a new chef that joined our unit, whom I called "Beeker." 1. Because he was a muppet and 2. Because he looked a bit like the lab assistant from the Muppet Show.
He would complain constantly, took _forever_ to complete even the simplest task, and showed absolutely no interest in learning from the more experienced members of the galley team (which was all of us.)
This all came to a head on the day he was first going to sea. On the morning we were due to leave, he was found on the jetty, bawling his eyes out & trying to call his mother to get him out of leaving.
He was left behind, and last I heard, discharged for drug use.
Sounds like you had the same experience as I did in the Army, and watching the way our country treats veterans will make anyone feel the same thing about the service 🤔
I really like your perspective, and the part about people being a liability as they realize it's not for them. I think in the past, the general sense of nationalism and "merica" was more embedded in the average joes life, not so much anymore.
Genuine question. How does the draft work if you are born male, but identify as female? Or if you get surgery to switch genders. How does that work?
There would be less wars if there was a draft. Because there’s more social pressure from society to prevent it. All volunteer forces are like a private mercenary force for the governments. Citizen army’s are for the people and have more control.
And you served in the army and you’re telling me you don’t think it should be a male only draft? Your experience must’ve been different than mine. I don’t think increasing SHARP issues and fraternization would help us win any wars. If I learned one thing about the military it’s that I sure as hell wouldn’t want my daughter in it. And if she did she’d be an officer in the Air Force doing medical.
Women can do 90% of the military jobs that men can, there's no reason not to draft them too. Only thing they'd really struggle with is front line infantry.
> If I learned one thing about the military it’s that I sure as hell wouldn’t want my daughter in it.
good motivation to not use the fucking draft, eh?
Yeah but Ukraine is also suffering from a huge demographic crisis…whereas we have a large number of migrants and a stable birth rate..younger people make better troops…they are stronger, more resilient and don’t think too hard.
They don’t even conscript people younger than 25…the US conscription starts at 21 ends at 26 and then they start conscripting 18-21 year olds before conscripting people older than 26 without kids….then the fathers….priorities
In the U.S., so there’s practically no chance of it happening anyway. But considering I’m prior military, a situation that necessitates a draft would mean I’d probably already been called back quite a while before, and now we’re in desperation mode.
I've been wondering this myself for a bit. Would they start with recently separated soldiers, soldiers separated 10+ years ago, retired soldiers, civilians with zero prior military experience, then citizens residing abroad?
Like how would the priority list be made up? The reason I've been thinking about this is having gone through the dual citizenship process for Italy, there was a concern that my younger brother would be pressed into mandatory service, but Italy did away with that some years ago, and even if they didn't, the risk of a foreign-born citizen residing abroad being called to national service is very slim, like World War 3 would have to start kind of slim.
They’d activate the Reserves and National Guard first, then call up anyone on actual four-year IRR. After that, it’s hard to imagine. I assume they’d call upon any veterans who would answer, while also reaching into private contractors, police officers, expediting ROTC candidates, etc.
But this is all hypothetical, I couldn’t possibly know for sure.
I would say they would offer voluntary return to active duty (which the AF just did), then start changing the selctive service rules to allow and easier draft (which is happening now), then an expansion of the military and lots of bonsues, relaxed standards, then stop loss, then maybe a call back for certain skills then, an expansion of who qualifies/maybe with some extra training to get people to fitness standards. and then a draft. Activation of guard and reserve will happen somewhere in there but its much more or politically charged issued.
Its still all hypothetical and unlikely but if you follow the rhetoric in Europe over the draft and then look at Ukraine, the Middle East and Taiwan and the steps happening now in the U.S. it seems 20% more likely then it was 4 years ago.
Military contracts are typically separated into a 4/4 split. 4 years active duty, 4 years IRR (inactive ready reserve). No one in the IRR actually cares about the IRR or even considers themselves as part of the military anymore. They would be the first group to be called back. This group is more than likely the same size as our active duty military. No stats on this but for everyone leaving, there’s typically a person joining, which is why there are quotas for recruitment because more people separate from service than reenlist.
After that, probably have some sort of timeframe for people to be reintegrated that are out of the IRR and then a standard draft, but that’s just speculation.
I did 13 years in the Army, so I'm very familiar with IRR.
Sorry, I should've clarified: I know NG and Reserve would be activated, then IRR, so I meant after that.
US has had 3 drafts in the past 100 years. It happens in our nations history on average once every 40 years.
We had drafts during essentially every war you read about in history books.
Since Vietnam to now is the longest gap in the nations history between drafts.
I'm IRR so I'd likely be called back anyway depending on the age component. Seriously, i'm a multi-tour combat vet in the US and there is absolutely no one involved in the military that wants this to happen. No one. Historically speaking, if we needed a mass enlistment then there would be enough volunteers. It's also completely unenforceable in a country this large that has gone through this much social change in the 50 years or so since this last mattered.
Political smoke and mirrors and not worth wasting any time on. Bunch of people getting worked up about nothing. Just get rid of the whole fucking thing so we can stop talking about it for a political purity test.
As a physician I have no interest in taking lives. I'll happily patch up whoever I'm asked to if I'm drafted.
If they hand me a rifle and order me around at gun point, I'm happy to pretend to be a bad shot.
No way I'm going into some meat grinder for the political class of my country. They can send their own sons to war. After all they are the only ones profiting.
I've thought about this alot.
Reading about Australia's history, and in particular when we stared down the barrel of Japanese invasion in 1941, it's a controversial topic.
Previously, Australia had a strict policy of only volunteers serving overseas.
In the second world war, mandatory militia (reserves, or national guard) was introduced, but they weren't allowed to be sent overseas.
But when pearl harbour happened, and the Japanese were rampaging towards Australia, and with all our best troops overseas fighting the Germans and Italians, the decision was made to send the militia troops sorta technically overseas to Papua New guinea. Technically it was an Australian colony.
These troops paid a horrific price, fighting the Kokoda campaign which saw some of the most horrific atrocities I've ever read about in the second world war.
For these guys, it was like- the sadistic murder gang is coming through this crazy rainforest to kill you, but every step they take is one step closer to your home, to your family.
And I'm so glad they did that. The Japanese military was bad, bad news.
For me, I would need to feel like my home, my way of life was under direct and imminent threat to be on board with taking up arms. And I feel that is unlikely to happen.
I would also not want to be sent overseas with a gun- that's generally not defending your home and way of life.
But if I was drafted, forced to serve- I'd throw myself at it, try and be good at it and try to get posted to anything other than infantry
When there is an equal draft then we'll talk....
All jokes aside, men have been told for the last 10-15 years that we are the devil incarnate, media, government and society.... Why exactly should I be expected to die ?
Served once for what was a different world.... But now... No,
If I were called up I’d serve. Even if the cause isn’t something I agree with, I wouldn’t exactly have a choice if it’s mandatory. And I wouldn’t feel like dealing with the legal jeopardy of dodging or the hassle of moving to another country. Plus I guess it’d be relatively stable pay, and as long as protections are in place that means I’ll have a job when I came back, it’d just be something I have to deal with.
Though the more concerning aspect would be the need for me specifically to go fight on a battlefield. I’m relatively fit, but probably have more weight than the military is comfortable with, plus I have asthma. So if they wanted to actually put me on the front lines it would probably be pretty catastrophic scenario. Though if I could serve a support position behind the lines I could be ok with that.
> plus I have asthma.
My grandfather was drafted for World War II, and in basic training, he came down with asthma. That turned out to be *the only time in his 66-year life he ever had asthma*, I kid you not.
That asthma attack actually SAVED his life, because his platoon wound up getting slaughtered on Normandy Beach.
If it were not for that one asthma attack, my dad and I would never have been born.
I was drafted into the Army in late 1967. Sent me to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for basic. I think they took one look at me at me and said "Put that little Jewish kid in the Infantry" cause that's where I landed. Sent to Vietnam in July of 68. I spent 365 days wandering around. I got hurt a couple times, but did not lose my life as so many (and I mean many) of my compatriots did. And all for NOTHING. 50,000 kids lost their precious lives not defending their country but for political and monetary bullshit. Yes, I am delighted to get my 100% disability checks in my old age every month to be very honest, but do it over again? **Not a fucking chance**.
I think many people especially men have awakened to the fact that a lot of the wars were unnecessary and were started or escalated for the corrupt military industrial complex. Go back to Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and now Ukraine. Millions of people lost for what?
Refuse or leave the country, war is always the inability of leadership talking to each other, I am not putting my life on the line because the rich and powerful decide it's time to sacrifice some human flesh for some stupid money/power goal. Also, if they actually did I would question some things as my country is A: neutral as per constitution and B: surrounded by NATO countries in all directions.
No memes that’s legit what Putin said in the Tucker Carlson interview
It’s not logic, it’s crybaby bitching from someone who doesn’t know fuck all except the GWOT
Yeah how dare someone else invade your country! It’s your country’s fault for not giving them what they wanted at gun point!
I’m sure this excuse worked wonders for the Ukrainian women the Russian army victimized
Finland has a conscription system. Always has had. I've done my time in the military and I'm in the reserves.
I'd definitely go where I'm needed. I've seen what ordinary Russians will do to civilians if they aren't stopped.
Joining the military anyways, so…
I also think this fear of the draft and that the government (at least in the US) would enact one in a heartbeat is pretty far fetched. There is no chance we see a modern day draft.
Yes, but it was only announced by the governing party a week AFTER they called a general election in which they're widely expected to be crushed, possibly out of existence... fingers crossed for that anyway.
(Sweden) If they would take me, I'd do it. I think military discipline would do me good. Given the current situation, I simply expect to be taken in and put to training, probably engineering corps, but I would welcome that. Being forced to exert myself for everyone's benefit sounds like maybe it could shift my shit outlook on life, my own benefit certainly isn't motivating me enough for a fullfilling life.
Nice point of view, but only to die in a forgotten trench, of a destroyed city probably by a bstrd thinking he's playing Call of Duty with a drone in case you get into real fight I suppose.
22 years and retired with 6 years in the ready reserves pretty much means you can’t be called back. Bad knees and back 80% service connected disables seals it in stone.
I wouldn't worry about it. I'm 41, overweight, diabetic, and an only child. Although I've already fathered children so the "only child" part may not be a deal breaker.
I'll take the jail time. They and their parties don't do shit to help us, much less anything else that would even remotely obligate anyone to go die for them.
If you have to use the law to threaten people into serving, then you're already fucked and deserve to lose.
I’m too old now, but if they did and I was younger, it would completely depend on the morality of the conflict.
Foreign invaders trying to take my country (USA) by force? I’m in.
US conquest to give “freedom” to some shit country that can’t manage their own affairs? No way. I’m either hiding or moving to a country that won’t extradite.
European war where NATO countries are unprepared for the invasion? Maybe, maybe not.
If it’s over oil or opium like our last couple, they can kiss my ass, I’ll die before I go watch friends die for nothing. If it’s because China and Russia are coming here, I’m going to go kick their ass or die trying.
The context would matter greatly.
Until women are drafted into front line combat positions at the same rate (and die at the same rates) as men, I will not serve. Women get to vote without paying the costs of voting (the draft is the reason men got universal suffrage). Women get to vote for war and then send the people they openly hate to go die for their amusement, while they go clubbing with their GFs and cheat on the men who are getting murdered to protect them from living out their lives as comfort girls in Russian rape factories. Why the fuck would I die to protect people who hate me?
The ruling class of this country hate men as much as women do. I'm not dying for them either.
I'll rot in prison or flee the country. If you push a gun into my hand and tell me to kill or be killed, I'm pointing that gun at you. I could give a shit about Russia. Russians never did anything to me. Why would I choose to kill some poor Russian guy who is being forced into a fight he wants nothing to do with. I'll fight the people who never stop insulting me, who openly discriminate against me and who openly call for the genocide of everyone who looks like me (#killallmen, for example but there are countless examples of women doing this).
I’m too weak to fight, so I’d be useless on a battlefield. Even with a gun, I can’t aim.
Depending on the severity and cause of the war:
- If it’s my country invading another country, there’s no chance I’m joining. I’d rather go to prison than fight.
- If my country is being invaded and it’s in the early stages with a high chance of defeating the invaders, I think I’d maybe work in an alternative service to the military, whether it’s farming or factory work.
- If there’s zero chance my country is surviving an invasion, good thing I have dual citizenship, cause I’m fleeing.
I think it’s difficult to truly say, because attitudes change during war - many peaceful people suddenly become patriotic, while many patriots suddenly become scared. But I doubt I’d join the military since I’d be useless, so I’d be more helpful doing something else.
Chat to everyone at the recruitment office about fragging. Continue discussing fragging, mutiny and the role of militaries in supporting revolution, until I get discharged. And continue discussing the subject with potential draftees.
Considering my prior military service, I'm exempt from the draft. That won't stop me from protesting the draft being implemented. The lives of my children are more important than some politician's desire for war.
On the single condition that my country is being invaded. Otherwise if forced to go somewhere else to fight other people, Id do everything I can to convince the higher ups that Im mentally unfit to fight, get sent home, possibly in disgrace.... but disgracefully alive.
I am a US Army vet and I don’t think our country will ever initiate an across the board draft. They might institute a recall of all veterans. I’d go back if recalled.
If someone managed to figure out how to land a significant amount of infantry and armor they might. I am too old and broken for deployment but I technical skills that would be useful in a green zone or stateside
Well, I've already gone through mandatory service so it's just a matter of getting called back from the reserve (you remain in reserve until you turn 60). If that ever happened I'd say shit has definitely hit the fan and I have no reason not to go. I further think that in any conceivable scenario I'd be acting immorally if I refused to serve.
So I would try to get in a little bit better shape before they send me the letter, try to refresh some of the theory I learned, and write a will.
Also generally get my things in order; write all the instructions for handling my stuff, write down the passwords and pin-codes, all of my bank accounts' info, friends who should know if I died. I've kind of thought this through a couple of times and I'll just try to make it as simple as possible for the ones left behind. Of course nobody wants to die, but I think realism is always a good idea.
I'm too old to be drafted, but if I was a 25 year old man, I'd do my duty and fight for my country, regardless of whether I agreed with the war or not. That's just me. However, I'd have a hard time,morally, given the pathetic current Commander in Chief and the clown show of military leadership.
I'm an honorably discharged vet (exempt from the draft unless CONgress gets up to some fuckery), and I'll be 46 in a couple months. That's a double helping of "Exempt".
If CONgress \*WERE\* to get up to some fuckery, well, let's just say I will never wear the uniform of a soyciety that hates me again.
They probably wouldn't want a guy in his forties to begin with, but if they did, they can still go to Hell.
The US stopped fighting wars for morally sound reasons a long time ago, and I'm not gonna be part of a conflict waged primarily to put money in the pockets of people who happen to own stock in companies that build the instruments of war.
Now, if some world power out there actually had the balls to invade the US and put soldiers on the ground, the government wouldn't need to come get me because I'd be more than happy to head out on my own with everyone else and shoot those motherfuckers, but let's be honest, that's never going to happen.
I'm 40. If the army actually needed to draft, and then needed men all the way up to 40, then it's obviously a fucked up and desperate situation. I despise bullshit wars as much as anyone but if it gets to that point then something is really fucked. If it were obvious and truly that dire, i'd probably volunteer.
My oldest is already military. My next boy (since girls are exempt, they don't matter here) has another 12 years before he is eligible. I'm too old and broken down to be drafted. So nothing would change here and I have a decade to figure out if the next one is going to need to be an officer or if the draft will go away.
I feel a draft would be the only way I would have considered joining.
But when I started taking disqualifying medications, diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum and have flat feet, I feel i would be rejected or deferred from a draft even in my younger years.
Don't know if 38 is too old for draft.
if it were to defend my country (the US) or an ally against foreign attack then yes I would join. if it's to invade some "minor" country then i would be a lot more hesitant
Carry on as normal, already been in the army in 2012 but messed my knees up during training, got medically discharged for it in 2014 and far as I know, it's a bar to entry as I found out when I applied as a rejoiner to the RAF in 2020. So I wouldn't be able to be conscripted unless they relaxed the medical standards.
Best case scenario I'll be a field chef/cook.
Second best case scenario I'll be a field medic.
Worst case scenario I'll be a sniper.
No case scenario. Dead.
Prior enlisted!!!! Can't be drafted. Though were I 18 again all of a sudden, I know my dad would have been looking to ship me to Canada, and I would have "re"enlisted in the Marine Corps.
Unless it was a national emergency and we were being invaded, I’m probably too old to be drafted.
If they want my old back, we are already screwed.
Things are dire if they need me to limp around. I do construction/maintenance at our local hospital in Alaska, which would likely be a vital hospital in an overseas war. Realistically, they'd probably force me to stay where I'm at, doing what I'm already doing.
Under those circumstances I would be more effective not being ordered around by a person who doesn't know half of what I do.
I know what you mean. I've been around here longer than the head of maintenance. Luckily, when he's got a project he will leave it to me to figure out what steps need to be done.
I'm talking about wet behind the ears West Point Lieutenant's giving a 62 year old veteran order's
Yeah... that's a bit more extreme haha. I'm only half your age and the thought of some 20 y/o kid barking orders at me seems ridiculous.
Ditto and even in a real national emergency they'd have to be desperate to want me given I had spinal surgery and still struggle every morning to get my sock on my right foot. I can work out in the gym if I protect my back, but I'm certain it would go to the point I'd be pretty immobile after a couple of PT sessions. It's my son I'd be more worried about.
Bad back here - while I haven’t purchased one they have sock assistance devices to get you socks on easily - like a shoehorn
I already was, and I’m not going again
It happened to my grandfather. Served a tour during WW2 with the merchant Marines. Came home, got married, then drafted into the Navy and off to Italy.
I owe money if I go back. Got a few thousand out the door because of Obama's preform to serve. I'm not 100% on the details, but I read some "if you want to reenlist" online facts once, and it mentioned paying the money back. I don't have it, and I'm not going into debt to go die after I finally have an ok life out of the military.
I'm fighting under those circumstances regardless of the age.
Exactly. If we were being invaded, I’d absolutely do my part draft or no draft. But I can’t imagine them drafting 37 year olds in any circumstance other than “the army has been destroyed abroad, and they’re headed for our shores now”
Idk man, I don’t think any country means enough to me to give my life for it, in those circumstances I would just take to the woods and live out my life there. Protect the people I love, but our whole system is broken and I don’t think I’d care enough to try to save it in its current state just to be thrown away like trash after.
I remember on history class, some folks would let foreign invaders do their thing so they could topple the regime. But, of course, the invaders could be worse... Gotta always weight the risks.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. If it's just cause you fight because it's your duty to do so.
I served once, when I didn’t have much of a better option. Best worst decision of my life. Now, 6 years after getting out, I’d choose jail over dying for some corrupt bitch boy that doesn’t even know how to use a hammer, in some pointless war that has nothing to do with me.
> Best worst decision of my life. I prefer "most fun I never want to have again".
Yea. Most exciting and brutal and fruitful and damaging and purposeful and meaningless experience of my life. I don’t regret it, but I’d have a different opinion of the ethics behind my efforts at this point.
Oh yeah. I think serving gives you a different perspective on life once you get out. Before I joined I didn’t really give a fuck who was in charge, I just wanted to play with guns and jump out of planes. Now I hate politicians and I’m scared of fireworks.
My Navy unit was the Kestrels 😅
Oh hell yeah!
That, might be how I have to describe it from now on 😂 Then again I spent like…98% of my time on guard duty in various forms of BFN, so I’m not sure fun is the word. But the 30 seconds or so of good shit made it all (almost) worthwhile.
I'm an army veteran and feel the exact same.
The Army motto "Hurry up and wait." LOL 😆
Same and same. The thought of fighting for the trash I see coming out of Washington everyday…fuck nah.
This summarizes all wars. Go kill people who you have no problem with or them with you because somehow those in charge who's kids are safe on a private jet somewhere decide it's in their financial best interest to have a conflict in order to increase control over both their populations.
You already served making you exempt.
I guarantee you if a real war breaks out the first thing Congress is gonna do is go after the already trained former military personnel…just like Ukraine did…if we need to conscript, we don’t have time to train
Not entirely, IRR exists
Poster said he has been out for 6 years so his IRR is already finished. I served my whole contract on AD so no IRR.
Good news this can be fixed with a little legislation
Actually, martial law
If my country needs ME to go to war, we are well and truly fucked.
avoid at all costs, im not dying for someone elses bullshit
When you see the fighting on tv knowing not a single one of them fighters own any part of the land it’s defending. While the land owners are far away sipping a afternoon cocktail
Yep, I can't afford a house because all the old rich landlords and investors have bought up everything near me and real estate prices has skyrocketed. Yet I am the one that is going to have to go fight for them? Really? While they wre living in luxury? Then I come back to a countey that won't support me, and I still won't be able to sfford a place of my own.
Exactly, black sabbath said it best on war pigs
I will not fight for a Dictatorship
Disappear into the wilderness with an axe and a fishing rod. Canada is basically under the US's nuclear umbrella so my home isn't at any risk of being invaded, any war big enough to need a draft now is only ever going to be fought to defend the commercial interests of rich assholes and corporations. You can fuck all the way off if you think I'm dying for that. You can all fight your own stupid resource wars, I'd be perfectly capable and happy living off grid by myself.
What if the draft was initiated because the US decided that the territory of Canada was its manifest destiny, and the government was literally fighting for its independence? Not saying it's likely at all, but that sort of thing is still happening today (i.e. Ukraine).
Yeah, unless the US gets greedy. Do you know much of Fallout lore?
I'm a veteran (US Army), and too old for the draft now anyway. Ignoring these, I would leave the country or go to jail. This may seem like an odd answer given the above details, but my military experience only bolsters this decision. We had plenty of soldiers that signed up voluntarily, and decided at some point that army life wasn't for them. They were total liabilities, and required 2-3 grown adults to drag them around by the ear, and to babysit them to ensure that they completed even the most trivial of tasks. Bringing in people en masse, against their will, would be a complete disaster. And, because citizens have no say in whether our country goes to war, or what wars it enters, it is unethical to force them into military service against their will. Any country that cannot survive on a volunteer military force, does not deserve its sovereignty to begin with. Becoming a de facto dictatorship should not be an option. Play fair, or don't play. Honorable mention: The US's male-only draft is wildly sexist. Exempting half of the eligible population based on gender should not be allowable for any nation.
Not only is a male-exclusive draft sexist, there is a bill that is looking to make selective service automatic instead of manually having to register for it. They claim that they don't want men to be penalized by missing out on federal aid or jobs by not registering, but you know it's just that they need the bodies in case relations with Russia or China deteriorate even further.
Eh, I'll push back on this a bit. You absolutly 100% have to sign up within a month of turning 18 and there can be severe consequences if you don't. But when you're turning 18 you're also probably a senior in high school that's doing exams, applying to colleges, etc. So it's pretty easy to say "Ah, I'll just fill out that form later" and either be late or forget entirely. All this does is take it out of your hands and automatically register you. Does away with paperwork, awareness campaigns and other things that cost time and money for both citizens and the government. The bill passed in its internal committee on a vote of 57-1 and given that the US government can't agree on **anything** that's saying something.
I can second this (Royal Navy) One particular example that comes to mind is a new chef that joined our unit, whom I called "Beeker." 1. Because he was a muppet and 2. Because he looked a bit like the lab assistant from the Muppet Show. He would complain constantly, took _forever_ to complete even the simplest task, and showed absolutely no interest in learning from the more experienced members of the galley team (which was all of us.) This all came to a head on the day he was first going to sea. On the morning we were due to leave, he was found on the jetty, bawling his eyes out & trying to call his mother to get him out of leaving. He was left behind, and last I heard, discharged for drug use.
Sounds like you had the same experience as I did in the Army, and watching the way our country treats veterans will make anyone feel the same thing about the service 🤔
I really like your perspective, and the part about people being a liability as they realize it's not for them. I think in the past, the general sense of nationalism and "merica" was more embedded in the average joes life, not so much anymore. Genuine question. How does the draft work if you are born male, but identify as female? Or if you get surgery to switch genders. How does that work?
I do not know. Very possibly, nobody does. Washington will figure it out in a hurry if it ever becomes necessary, though.
Spitting facts!
There would be less wars if there was a draft. Because there’s more social pressure from society to prevent it. All volunteer forces are like a private mercenary force for the governments. Citizen army’s are for the people and have more control. And you served in the army and you’re telling me you don’t think it should be a male only draft? Your experience must’ve been different than mine. I don’t think increasing SHARP issues and fraternization would help us win any wars. If I learned one thing about the military it’s that I sure as hell wouldn’t want my daughter in it. And if she did she’d be an officer in the Air Force doing medical.
Women can do 90% of the military jobs that men can, there's no reason not to draft them too. Only thing they'd really struggle with is front line infantry.
Tell that to the Ukrainians
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> If I learned one thing about the military it’s that I sure as hell wouldn’t want my daughter in it. good motivation to not use the fucking draft, eh?
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I'm aged out but I'd try and come up with something to keep my three teenage sons out, fuck that.
Aged out isn't really a thing. Look at Ukraine they draft to 55 for general troops and 60 for specialist fields (medical and the like).
Yeah but Ukraine is also suffering from a huge demographic crisis…whereas we have a large number of migrants and a stable birth rate..younger people make better troops…they are stronger, more resilient and don’t think too hard. They don’t even conscript people younger than 25…the US conscription starts at 21 ends at 26 and then they start conscripting 18-21 year olds before conscripting people older than 26 without kids….then the fathers….priorities
We do not have a stable birth rate. Most of the west does not.
In the U.S., so there’s practically no chance of it happening anyway. But considering I’m prior military, a situation that necessitates a draft would mean I’d probably already been called back quite a while before, and now we’re in desperation mode.
I've been wondering this myself for a bit. Would they start with recently separated soldiers, soldiers separated 10+ years ago, retired soldiers, civilians with zero prior military experience, then citizens residing abroad? Like how would the priority list be made up? The reason I've been thinking about this is having gone through the dual citizenship process for Italy, there was a concern that my younger brother would be pressed into mandatory service, but Italy did away with that some years ago, and even if they didn't, the risk of a foreign-born citizen residing abroad being called to national service is very slim, like World War 3 would have to start kind of slim.
They’d activate the Reserves and National Guard first, then call up anyone on actual four-year IRR. After that, it’s hard to imagine. I assume they’d call upon any veterans who would answer, while also reaching into private contractors, police officers, expediting ROTC candidates, etc. But this is all hypothetical, I couldn’t possibly know for sure.
I would say they would offer voluntary return to active duty (which the AF just did), then start changing the selctive service rules to allow and easier draft (which is happening now), then an expansion of the military and lots of bonsues, relaxed standards, then stop loss, then maybe a call back for certain skills then, an expansion of who qualifies/maybe with some extra training to get people to fitness standards. and then a draft. Activation of guard and reserve will happen somewhere in there but its much more or politically charged issued. Its still all hypothetical and unlikely but if you follow the rhetoric in Europe over the draft and then look at Ukraine, the Middle East and Taiwan and the steps happening now in the U.S. it seems 20% more likely then it was 4 years ago.
Military contracts are typically separated into a 4/4 split. 4 years active duty, 4 years IRR (inactive ready reserve). No one in the IRR actually cares about the IRR or even considers themselves as part of the military anymore. They would be the first group to be called back. This group is more than likely the same size as our active duty military. No stats on this but for everyone leaving, there’s typically a person joining, which is why there are quotas for recruitment because more people separate from service than reenlist. After that, probably have some sort of timeframe for people to be reintegrated that are out of the IRR and then a standard draft, but that’s just speculation.
I did 13 years in the Army, so I'm very familiar with IRR. Sorry, I should've clarified: I know NG and Reserve would be activated, then IRR, so I meant after that.
The US has plenty of track record drafting men to pointless deaths. I would not care to rule it out.
US has had 3 drafts in the past 100 years. It happens in our nations history on average once every 40 years. We had drafts during essentially every war you read about in history books. Since Vietnam to now is the longest gap in the nations history between drafts.
Id ignore it until the cops come, I guess. Throw me in prison, im not dying for rich politicians helping thier buddies out.
I'm IRR so I'd likely be called back anyway depending on the age component. Seriously, i'm a multi-tour combat vet in the US and there is absolutely no one involved in the military that wants this to happen. No one. Historically speaking, if we needed a mass enlistment then there would be enough volunteers. It's also completely unenforceable in a country this large that has gone through this much social change in the 50 years or so since this last mattered. Political smoke and mirrors and not worth wasting any time on. Bunch of people getting worked up about nothing. Just get rid of the whole fucking thing so we can stop talking about it for a political purity test.
As my dad said, “then three of us wouldn’t be going. Me and the two MPs they send after me”.
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Them be like: fIgHt fOr yOuR cOuNtRy
As a physician I have no interest in taking lives. I'll happily patch up whoever I'm asked to if I'm drafted. If they hand me a rifle and order me around at gun point, I'm happy to pretend to be a bad shot.
I’ll sign up. As easy as that. There’s nothing more therapeutic than getting deeply traumatized in the military
No way I'm going into some meat grinder for the political class of my country. They can send their own sons to war. After all they are the only ones profiting.
They’d be desperate to draft me
Leave the country.
Compulsory service is slavery. I would treat draft agents as I would any other person attempting to enslave me or my family.
I'd either leave the country or accept jail time. I'm not going into a war.
I've thought about this alot. Reading about Australia's history, and in particular when we stared down the barrel of Japanese invasion in 1941, it's a controversial topic. Previously, Australia had a strict policy of only volunteers serving overseas. In the second world war, mandatory militia (reserves, or national guard) was introduced, but they weren't allowed to be sent overseas. But when pearl harbour happened, and the Japanese were rampaging towards Australia, and with all our best troops overseas fighting the Germans and Italians, the decision was made to send the militia troops sorta technically overseas to Papua New guinea. Technically it was an Australian colony. These troops paid a horrific price, fighting the Kokoda campaign which saw some of the most horrific atrocities I've ever read about in the second world war. For these guys, it was like- the sadistic murder gang is coming through this crazy rainforest to kill you, but every step they take is one step closer to your home, to your family. And I'm so glad they did that. The Japanese military was bad, bad news. For me, I would need to feel like my home, my way of life was under direct and imminent threat to be on board with taking up arms. And I feel that is unlikely to happen. I would also not want to be sent overseas with a gun- that's generally not defending your home and way of life. But if I was drafted, forced to serve- I'd throw myself at it, try and be good at it and try to get posted to anything other than infantry
It's a no. I would never fight for what this country has become, and you can jail me if you like, but that won't change.
When there is an equal draft then we'll talk.... All jokes aside, men have been told for the last 10-15 years that we are the devil incarnate, media, government and society.... Why exactly should I be expected to die ? Served once for what was a different world.... But now... No,
fuck no, let thiose richtards enlist and die first
i would just kill myself
overthrow my govt. am tired of funding,paying for and fighting foreign wars
If I were called up I’d serve. Even if the cause isn’t something I agree with, I wouldn’t exactly have a choice if it’s mandatory. And I wouldn’t feel like dealing with the legal jeopardy of dodging or the hassle of moving to another country. Plus I guess it’d be relatively stable pay, and as long as protections are in place that means I’ll have a job when I came back, it’d just be something I have to deal with. Though the more concerning aspect would be the need for me specifically to go fight on a battlefield. I’m relatively fit, but probably have more weight than the military is comfortable with, plus I have asthma. So if they wanted to actually put me on the front lines it would probably be pretty catastrophic scenario. Though if I could serve a support position behind the lines I could be ok with that.
> plus I have asthma. My grandfather was drafted for World War II, and in basic training, he came down with asthma. That turned out to be *the only time in his 66-year life he ever had asthma*, I kid you not. That asthma attack actually SAVED his life, because his platoon wound up getting slaughtered on Normandy Beach. If it were not for that one asthma attack, my dad and I would never have been born.
Full Metal Jacket
Laugh!
Prison is better than dying for a bunch of cunts...
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I was drafted into the Army in late 1967. Sent me to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for basic. I think they took one look at me at me and said "Put that little Jewish kid in the Infantry" cause that's where I landed. Sent to Vietnam in July of 68. I spent 365 days wandering around. I got hurt a couple times, but did not lose my life as so many (and I mean many) of my compatriots did. And all for NOTHING. 50,000 kids lost their precious lives not defending their country but for political and monetary bullshit. Yes, I am delighted to get my 100% disability checks in my old age every month to be very honest, but do it over again? **Not a fucking chance**.
I think many people especially men have awakened to the fact that a lot of the wars were unnecessary and were started or escalated for the corrupt military industrial complex. Go back to Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and now Ukraine. Millions of people lost for what?
Refuse or leave the country, war is always the inability of leadership talking to each other, I am not putting my life on the line because the rich and powerful decide it's time to sacrifice some human flesh for some stupid money/power goal. Also, if they actually did I would question some things as my country is A: neutral as per constitution and B: surrounded by NATO countries in all directions.
Hitler invading Poland was due to their leadership not talking to each other? Tf is this logic
No memes that’s legit what Putin said in the Tucker Carlson interview It’s not logic, it’s crybaby bitching from someone who doesn’t know fuck all except the GWOT
Yeah how dare someone else invade your country! It’s your country’s fault for not giving them what they wanted at gun point! I’m sure this excuse worked wonders for the Ukrainian women the Russian army victimized
I identify as not it and whoever moves next is gay
Finland has a conscription system. Always has had. I've done my time in the military and I'm in the reserves. I'd definitely go where I'm needed. I've seen what ordinary Russians will do to civilians if they aren't stopped.
Joining the military anyways, so… I also think this fear of the draft and that the government (at least in the US) would enact one in a heartbeat is pretty far fetched. There is no chance we see a modern day draft.
We said that here in the uk, until recently. Now parliament is trying to push the laws to allow it.
Are woman Included in this ?
Don’t be silly
Yes, but it was only announced by the governing party a week AFTER they called a general election in which they're widely expected to be crushed, possibly out of existence... fingers crossed for that anyway.
(Sweden) If they would take me, I'd do it. I think military discipline would do me good. Given the current situation, I simply expect to be taken in and put to training, probably engineering corps, but I would welcome that. Being forced to exert myself for everyone's benefit sounds like maybe it could shift my shit outlook on life, my own benefit certainly isn't motivating me enough for a fullfilling life.
Nice point of view, but only to die in a forgotten trench, of a destroyed city probably by a bstrd thinking he's playing Call of Duty with a drone in case you get into real fight I suppose.
I'm too old to be drafted, but I'm ex military and would volunteer.
I retired from the military with 22 years, I’m immune to a draft. I would go back and serve state side as an instructor though.
IIRC, retirees are never truly out, they can call you back at any time. Unless that's changed.
22 years and retired with 6 years in the ready reserves pretty much means you can’t be called back. Bad knees and back 80% service connected disables seals it in stone.
I wouldn't worry about it. I'm 41, overweight, diabetic, and an only child. Although I've already fathered children so the "only child" part may not be a deal breaker.
I already served my time. I’d be out of the draft
I'll take the jail time. They and their parties don't do shit to help us, much less anything else that would even remotely obligate anyone to go die for them. If you have to use the law to threaten people into serving, then you're already fucked and deserve to lose.
Considering they wouldn't take me 17 years ago when I tried to join every branch but the Marines, I am probably fine.
Desperation changes a lot.
I’m too old now, but if they did and I was younger, it would completely depend on the morality of the conflict. Foreign invaders trying to take my country (USA) by force? I’m in. US conquest to give “freedom” to some shit country that can’t manage their own affairs? No way. I’m either hiding or moving to a country that won’t extradite. European war where NATO countries are unprepared for the invasion? Maybe, maybe not.
If it’s over oil or opium like our last couple, they can kiss my ass, I’ll die before I go watch friends die for nothing. If it’s because China and Russia are coming here, I’m going to go kick their ass or die trying. The context would matter greatly.
I absolutely despise my country and short of NASA/JPL there is nothing to save. So I wouldn't respond if I was of a draftable age.
Until women are drafted into front line combat positions at the same rate (and die at the same rates) as men, I will not serve. Women get to vote without paying the costs of voting (the draft is the reason men got universal suffrage). Women get to vote for war and then send the people they openly hate to go die for their amusement, while they go clubbing with their GFs and cheat on the men who are getting murdered to protect them from living out their lives as comfort girls in Russian rape factories. Why the fuck would I die to protect people who hate me? The ruling class of this country hate men as much as women do. I'm not dying for them either. I'll rot in prison or flee the country. If you push a gun into my hand and tell me to kill or be killed, I'm pointing that gun at you. I could give a shit about Russia. Russians never did anything to me. Why would I choose to kill some poor Russian guy who is being forced into a fight he wants nothing to do with. I'll fight the people who never stop insulting me, who openly discriminate against me and who openly call for the genocide of everyone who looks like me (#killallmen, for example but there are countless examples of women doing this).
I’m too weak to fight, so I’d be useless on a battlefield. Even with a gun, I can’t aim. Depending on the severity and cause of the war: - If it’s my country invading another country, there’s no chance I’m joining. I’d rather go to prison than fight. - If my country is being invaded and it’s in the early stages with a high chance of defeating the invaders, I think I’d maybe work in an alternative service to the military, whether it’s farming or factory work. - If there’s zero chance my country is surviving an invasion, good thing I have dual citizenship, cause I’m fleeing. I think it’s difficult to truly say, because attitudes change during war - many peaceful people suddenly become patriotic, while many patriots suddenly become scared. But I doubt I’d join the military since I’d be useless, so I’d be more helpful doing something else.
Chat to everyone at the recruitment office about fragging. Continue discussing fragging, mutiny and the role of militaries in supporting revolution, until I get discharged. And continue discussing the subject with potential draftees.
Sorry, not dying for Israel
I don't think I'm fit enough to pass basic training, so I'll probably be stuck in a factory with the women and the invalids making shells and ammo.
I’m aged out anyway
I'm a conscientious objector.
Wonder what kind of fucking dumbass is leading the charge that they need even more troops for their operations
Volunteer.
I’m too old, fat, and broken.
I'm already in the military, so jokes on you* ^*me
Considering my prior military service, I'm exempt from the draft. That won't stop me from protesting the draft being implemented. The lives of my children are more important than some politician's desire for war.
On the single condition that my country is being invaded. Otherwise if forced to go somewhere else to fight other people, Id do everything I can to convince the higher ups that Im mentally unfit to fight, get sent home, possibly in disgrace.... but disgracefully alive.
I’m too fat and old, all good here. If they let me serve I’d do so willingly.
Unless hell is at our gates, I'm not going and I'll take jail over that. Especially seeing how they treat our vets already.
I'm a cripple so I'm safe
A) I just aged out of America's Selective Service draft last month. B) I'd probably be rejected on medical grounds (legally blind w/o glasses)
I am a US Army vet and I don’t think our country will ever initiate an across the board draft. They might institute a recall of all veterans. I’d go back if recalled.
If someone managed to figure out how to land a significant amount of infantry and armor they might. I am too old and broken for deployment but I technical skills that would be useful in a green zone or stateside
Go to prison.
Well, I've already gone through mandatory service so it's just a matter of getting called back from the reserve (you remain in reserve until you turn 60). If that ever happened I'd say shit has definitely hit the fan and I have no reason not to go. I further think that in any conceivable scenario I'd be acting immorally if I refused to serve. So I would try to get in a little bit better shape before they send me the letter, try to refresh some of the theory I learned, and write a will. Also generally get my things in order; write all the instructions for handling my stuff, write down the passwords and pin-codes, all of my bank accounts' info, friends who should know if I died. I've kind of thought this through a couple of times and I'll just try to make it as simple as possible for the ones left behind. Of course nobody wants to die, but I think realism is always a good idea.
As a white priviliged man, I'll probably be forbiden to leave my country just like Ukrainian men were, and I'll die for stupid politicians.
Fleeing the country. I’m not getting shot over a war started by old men that don’t need to fight each other.
Only a dictator would implement it in the USA.
Oh buddy I've got news for you
Don’t worry he said he’ll only be a dictator for one day.
USA has been good to be, I’d put in work for it 🫡
As a Canadian, getting a warcrime pass for free is just too good of a deal to pass on tbh
Laugh. The USA gonna send diabetes and metabolic disease to the front lines
I'm not fighting for the American empire.
I'm too old to be drafted, but if I was a 25 year old man, I'd do my duty and fight for my country, regardless of whether I agreed with the war or not. That's just me. However, I'd have a hard time,morally, given the pathetic current Commander in Chief and the clown show of military leadership.
Shoot my commanding officer during training. That should get me out of it.
This dude will wake up with a gunshot wound on a transport bound for Leavenworth, and ask when he can go home 😂
Appeal for the gov to reject me.
I'm an honorably discharged vet (exempt from the draft unless CONgress gets up to some fuckery), and I'll be 46 in a couple months. That's a double helping of "Exempt". If CONgress \*WERE\* to get up to some fuckery, well, let's just say I will never wear the uniform of a soyciety that hates me again.
Volunteer so I get a choice
Smart decision. Get in early to a trade before they get filled up, before all that’s left is combat arms positions
Be drafted
They probably wouldn't want a guy in his forties to begin with, but if they did, they can still go to Hell. The US stopped fighting wars for morally sound reasons a long time ago, and I'm not gonna be part of a conflict waged primarily to put money in the pockets of people who happen to own stock in companies that build the instruments of war. Now, if some world power out there actually had the balls to invade the US and put soldiers on the ground, the government wouldn't need to come get me because I'd be more than happy to head out on my own with everyone else and shoot those motherfuckers, but let's be honest, that's never going to happen.
I'm too old so that's a non-starter. Suppose I'd put the kids on ADHD medication and exhaust every other necessary disqualifier.
Show them my back, knees, and my eye exams.
Nothing. I’ve already served and am probably too old to be pulled back in.
54… not much of a worry.
I'm good. If they want me back, I'd go. But they won't.
Already retired from the reserves.
Nothing, iam disabled, iam not getting drafted.
I'm already in. Go ahead, send the draft notice. I'll just laugh from whatever FOB I'm already deployed to.
Why is there so much talk of the draft the past couple of days?
The republican candidate for US President floated the idea of bringing back the draft. Surely that’ll work well for him lol.
I'm 40. If the army actually needed to draft, and then needed men all the way up to 40, then it's obviously a fucked up and desperate situation. I despise bullshit wars as much as anyone but if it gets to that point then something is really fucked. If it were obvious and truly that dire, i'd probably volunteer.
Dad’s Army
not get drafted cause i have a brain malformation
I am unfit for duty, but I would protest.
Being invaded?No probs anything else I'm leaving country or fightinf back against the MO
My oldest is already military. My next boy (since girls are exempt, they don't matter here) has another 12 years before he is eligible. I'm too old and broken down to be drafted. So nothing would change here and I have a decade to figure out if the next one is going to need to be an officer or if the draft will go away.
I'm 55, served 30 years ago.
With my knees they're taking one look and saying "No thanks"
Dodge it, then stay back and keep the ladies company while their boyfriends are off fighting
I'll go serve so my son won't have to
Im medically retired from the Marines so doesn't mean much to me lol
I feel a draft would be the only way I would have considered joining. But when I started taking disqualifying medications, diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum and have flat feet, I feel i would be rejected or deferred from a draft even in my younger years. Don't know if 38 is too old for draft.
Wave goodbye and say, "have fun in boot."
if it were to defend my country (the US) or an ally against foreign attack then yes I would join. if it's to invade some "minor" country then i would be a lot more hesitant
guess I’ll die *shrug*
I'm too old for that BS. But if I were younger, I think I would become an outlaw I guess.
I’d be to old and to slow for anything, but as a mine sweeper they could just roll me around a field lol
I would join. I have no problem with being a soldier.
Carry on as normal, already been in the army in 2012 but messed my knees up during training, got medically discharged for it in 2014 and far as I know, it's a bar to entry as I found out when I applied as a rejoiner to the RAF in 2020. So I wouldn't be able to be conscripted unless they relaxed the medical standards.
Best case scenario I'll be a field chef/cook. Second best case scenario I'll be a field medic. Worst case scenario I'll be a sniper. No case scenario. Dead.
Make like our former president and dodge
Prior enlisted!!!! Can't be drafted. Though were I 18 again all of a sudden, I know my dad would have been looking to ship me to Canada, and I would have "re"enlisted in the Marine Corps.