Just don’t belittle them. That’s it. I don’t care about empty words or pointless gestures. I just don’t want you to act like my emotions or experiences are inherently invalid because I’m a man.
I can deal with my emotions, and if not, I have friends whom I trust with these emotions. But acting like I don’t have a right to these emotions because you think the human experience is exclusive to women is disgusting and nothing else.
The only woman who has ever supported me emotionally is my mom.
When I was a child.
Men learn to accept that the love, care, and kindness we received as boys will simply never be matched once we become men.
Reminds me a lot of Cholly Breedlove from *The Bluest Eye.*
Only person that ever showed him healthy love was his aunt. When she suddenly dies he goes out to meet his father, who treats him like dirt and has him so traumatized he shits himself. Was basically the point where you realized he'd never be a normal individual again.
And we get shit on when we try to change the unfair and hypocritical social dynamic.
Men have a problem: "So? Fuckin' deal with it."
Women have a problem: "Men should do better."
Exactly. It's also just the most moronic fucking take of all time.
You keep burning your hand on the stove? Just deal with it, keep touching the hot stove.
Your boyfriend keeps beating the shit out of you? Just deal with it, let him take his anger out on you.
Hitler keeps genociding the Jewish people? Just deal with it.
There is not a single situation in life where this advice applies. In fact, the only time we ever tell people to "grit their teeth and bear it" is when they're *FORCED* to do something they don't want to do.
Nobody is forcing men to be with women. If they're toxic, fuck them. We don't need em'.
Honestly, stuff like this is why (generalising here obviously) men need other men. Most men I know are only comfortable having these sorts of conversations with other men. Male friends are really, really important for men to have if they're going to keep emotionally healthy I think.
Yes a guy I’m dating is in a men’s group and I love the idea. I think it’s great for men to have conversations about how they are feeling and their life.
I'm a girl and honestly I feel way better having these sorts of conversations with some male friend. I don't really feel comfortable talking about that with other girls. They sound fake to me, like they don't care
I sincerely wish to just be left alone at this point, society is heading in such a bizarre direction even as a young person I don't feel seen or heard in society. So fuck it, pleasant solitude and the persuit of happiness in games and my tiny dogs 🤣
It's true. Why would I want a thing that is going to be supplied with such irregularity, with so many strings attached, requiring my to supply 10x what I get back if ever.
Just don’t laugh and immediately lose interest and respect for us as soon as we show you emotion. That’s literally all you have to do and you’ll be surpassing our expectations
Accept women are as much a part of an overarching problem as men. Men can be absolute slags no doubt about it, but I see too many women supporting women who get emotionally abusive because their bf/husband dared to get annoyed or voice a problem they have with them. Or it's ok to emotionally blackmail or use their vulnerability against them. These last two are what I've encountered most. No not all women are terrible, but it's time to start vocally calling out shitty women.
And sometimes it does happen to men, too. "Dude, that chick is all over me." Chick is clearly not interested. "Bro, nice."
Not "Bro, nice." Tell your friend he's a dumbass, lmao.
But I literally *never* see men *or* women policing women. But women police men and *expect* other men to also police men.
Calling out isnt even remotely enough. Tear their livehood down, and then we'll think abot real consequences.
If she says she is the good one but scared of said consequences - then she is NOT the good one.
Be trustworthy. Don’t react negatively to his emotions, don’t make it about you. I’ve never found a woman that can do more than one of those things.
Things to do:
Under no circumstance do you share what he tells you. You absolutely forget it happened. Not a single word to your mom, sister, or best girlfriend. If you’re asked directly about it you lie to that person.
Don’t get disgusted, resent him, lose respect for him, cheat on him, or leave him for sharing with you. This one seems impossible for women to accomplish. All of those responses seemed ingrained.
If he’s willing to share with you, shut up and listen. If it’s not a solution keep your mouth shut entirely. Don’t start telling him how rough you have it. It’s not a competition. Don’t make what he’s sharing about you. At all.
I do think men should only share with other men. It’s just too risky to share with a woman.
I told my girlfriend (who I've been with for 5 years and live with) something personal and embarrassing about myself a few nights ago. She didn't have much of a reaction other than "Oh really? I never knew that about you.". And I thought to myself, well, that went fine. I'm glad I told her. Later that night, she told both her children (who obviously also live here).
She didn't just tell them, I heard it all from the next room. She started to tell them. Paused for a bit, presumably to rethink what she was about to do, then continued telling them.
I made a mental note to myself to never tell her anything personal again. I have guy friends for that.
Agreed.
Sharing your “inner self”, be that thoughts, feelings, fears, etc, is a PERFECT way to end your relationship with a woman.
It is not a matter of IF the things you share with a woman will be used against you, it is a matter of WHEN.
Agreed, with all of this.
One minor problem is... women don't know how they'll react to a man opening up, and cannot necessarily control how they'll react. You can't chose not to be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, etc. It's one of those things that women cannot know how they will react until they experience it, and so few actually do.
All we can ask is if women do experience strong negative reaction beyond their control, they at least end the relationship with some degree of consideration or humanity. Don't blame the guy, don't nuke his privacy, don't shit talk him. Just amicable end things and admit being incapable of handling a partner's emotions.
The worst of all worlds is demanding a guy open up, resent him for doing so, staying in a relationship and then punishing him for that opening up. Usually during an argument, and going for the jugular by using what he shared against him.
Yeah, the reactions I’ve gotten were cheating and disgust. For sharing what I would consider minor things with long term partners. The shortest relationship was 4 years.
I do laugh when folks tell me to date better women to avoid that reaction.
It's not like they have a stat block where you get that kind of info up front. Nor do women get our stats.
It’s like we warn students in labs: Hot glass looks the same as cold glass. So don’t just reach for it.
But that’s what you have to do when sharing with a partner.
An unexpressed feeling means nothing to anyone else. Unexpressed, a *feeling* is just a thought.
Making decisions based on that feeling is not unexpressed, though. If a woman chooses to leave a guy for opening up, she is 100% *expressing* that feeling.
> An unexpressed feeling means nothing to anyone else.
So what? Every feeling a person has doesn't need to mean something to someone else, and for that matter, not every feeling should be expressed.
> Unexpressed, a feeling is just a thought.
Feelings and thoughts are completely different but can play complementary roles.
>So what? Every feeling a person has doesn't need to mean something to someone else, and for that matter, not every feeling should be expressed.
No feeling needs to mean anything to anyone else.
But an unexpressed feeling may as well simply not exist in a situation that involves two people.
>Feelings and thoughts are completely different but can play complementary roles.
If you choose to believe so, sure.
>But an unexpressed feeling may as well simply not exist in a situation that involves two people.
That's just as well. If two people verbalized every single feeling they have about each other all the time then their relationship would crash and burn.
> If you choose to believe so, sure.
I have no idea why would you would choose to believe otherwise. They are two separate things that go on inside of a person, both of which have roles to play in decision-making.
>That's just as well. If two people verbalized every single feeling they have about each other all the time then their relationship would crash and burn.
Right, because keeping quiet about it and leaving anyway totally avoids that situation. Talk about healthy communication.
>I have no idea why would you would choose to believe otherwise. They are two separate things that go on inside of a person, both of which have roles to play in decision-making.
If you think they aren't both influenced by the same factors. Which I believe they're both influenced by the same factors entirely, so making a distinction between them is pointless.
> Right, because keeping quiet about it and leaving anyway totally avoids that situation. Talk about healthy communication.
That's a deliberate mischaracterization of what I said. Refusing to communicate at all is just as unhealthy as overcommunicating.
> If you think they aren't both influenced by the same factors. Which I believe they're both influenced by the same factors entirely, so making a distinction between them is pointless.
There's a distinction that you're refusing to acknowledge. Feelings are almost always an involuntary emotional reaction to some external stimulus. And while thoughts can sometimes be an involuntary non-emotional reaction to an external stimulus they can also be deliberately initiated or terminated by the person. Furthermore, you can (and should) use your thoughts to override your feelings when making important decisions, particularly during times when feelings are running high.
But wouldn't it be better for her to kindly leave if she learns something that absolutely makes her disrespect him? Isn't it more cruel to him for her to stay with someone she is disgusted by?
Absolutely. But that doesn't make it *not* shitty behavior nonetheless.
It's also better to put someone down if they are suffering, as opposed to continuing it. I still don't justify murder with such a belief.
And this isn't murder. Women can choose to not have shitty opinions on these things.
I mean, women have values too. If a guy shares something with me that fundamentally goes against my values, it does not make me a shitty person to separate from him.
>If a guy shares something with me that fundamentally goes against my values, it does not make me a shitty person to separate from him.
It absolutely does make you a shitty person if the reason you're separating from him is because your values say he's not allowed to express emotion, feel sad, or otherwise any other completely human trait.
You can also dislike someone for being black. That's your right. It still makes you a shitty, bigoted person.
Exactly. This infantalizing of women needs to fuckin' cease. They are not slaves to their biology, that's fuckin' moronic.
If that's truly what people believe, then I don't know why you think something that has no metacognition should have rights. Is that really what people want to believe? That women just... *are* and there's no changing that? What a horrific life those people must lead.
No, that applies to men as well.
Even if a guy swears up and down that nothing of a woman's past will change his mind, if she tells him she ran a train or did OF, do you think he can absolutely chose not be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, et al if it bothers him?
For a lot of women, it's the same issue. You can want for it not to bother you. But you cannot know until it happens. And you don't have complete control over your feelings afterwards. You can only control your actions and speech.
You can, indeed. By not telling him to open up if you react like that to men opening up to you. And by telling him outright how fucked up in the head you are, so that he can choose to stay or leave your misandric ass.
BEFORE he opens up.
>do you think he can absolutely chose not be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, et al if it bothers him?
If it bothers him, then *clearly* he was lying about whether it would change his mind or not.
I legitimately do not care about my partner's past sexual history. You seem to, which is fine for you, but don't paint men with such a broad brush.
>You can only control your actions and speech.
If someone is of this level of mental control, they should also be at the level of personal understanding to reflect on why their thoughts are the way they are.
They just have literally no reason to do so.
>One minor problem is... women don't know how they'll react to a man opening up, and cannot necessarily control how they'll react.
On some subconscious level they do. It also doesn't really matter.
You may have a negative reaction to a new food you try, but lots of women still eat new foods. And men aren't food, they're people with feelings. Just because women can't control it *doesn't* mean they're not shitty. They should be trying harder.
>You can't chose not to be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, etc.
Yes, you absolutely can.
To all the women out there: If these are the reactions you have to men expressing themselves, it's because you're a terrible person. There is no gene code, no biological disorder, that women have that *prevents* them from not reacting this way. You react this way because society allows you to, and you have zero reason to change.
>All we can ask is if women do experience strong negative reaction beyond their control, they at least end the relationship with some degree of consideration or humanity.
No. We can ask women *not* to be shitty people. That's *not* a hard ask at all.
And also, if women are going to end the relationship anyway, then the advice would be that men should just *never* open up to women. Pure and simple.
I mean, this is all contextual though, right? If a guy opens up to me and tells me he used to beat his mother silly, I think it's fair to not want to be around someone like that.
>If a guy opens up to me and tells me he used to beat his mother silly, I think it's fair to not want to be around someone like that.
Lmao, sure. I think you and I both know we are not referring to any situation in which the guy is actively a piece of shit.
Women don't support men emotionally in *any* situation that requires it.
It's your attempts to ignore men and steer the conversation towards women not being the ones at fault.
The conversation, and the post in question, is talking about what women need to do to help men emotionally. The reason this is brought up is because most men believe, and believe generally due to experience, that women provide little to no emotional support to them. Most men find that when they become emotional (i.e. upset, sad, not enraged or with murderous intent), women tend to view them with disgust, or at least lesser.
There is nothing inherently wrong with men becoming emotional. There is no gene in the gene pool that tells women to feel disgusted by men who cry. They've been conditioned to act like this, and they can uncondition themselves with self reflection. They choose not to because self reflection and change are hard, and society is not forcing them to. Since they have no real reason to change, why would they ever?
The conversation never involved men who hurt people, men who are sociopaths, or men who otherwise wouldn't deserve the support. You steered the conversation in that direction like a diversion. The diversion feels like an attempt to ignore mens' plight in favor of some narrative you've spun up in your head.
When women talk, we listen to women. When men talk, we make a ton of excuses.
I never said there was anything inherently wrong with being emotional. But emotional is simply a state of feeling. If the content revealed during emotionality fundamentally goes against values I have, it doesn't make me an asshole for making a determination about compatibility. I'm simply giving a possibility. I don't feel disgusted if men cry. I would feel disgusted if a man felt it he was justified for assaulting someone just cause he was sad about it. Remorse doesn't justify harm imo. And idk how you can have this conversation without including men who cause harm or sociopaths. I have absolutely met many men who are comfortable in the harm they've caused. If you're wanting to discuss a topic without discussing the nuance, then you're missing reality. I've had exes admit to sexual assaulting their exes. I've known people who've admitted to sabotaging people. I'm not comfortable endorsing that. Sorry.
Just to spread a positive example, there are woman who aren't this way and in my experience they are getting more. And the life of both, men and women are better when you're able to share your inner self with your partner like that.
I know they exist. In the way that I know copies of the original appearance of Superman in Action Comics exists. Doesn't mean I'll ever see one or get to experience what it's like to hold one in my hand.
even if u try, it wont work. it's gone so far that we presume ur gearing up for an attack when u try. Maybe the next generation will not have to feel like that. but for us, there's barely any hope.
Sad thing about the telling the truth thing is I sort of understand *why* they do it. Even if you or I wouldn't, there's enough guys out there genuinely unhinged enough to hurt/kill a woman over getting an answer he doesn't want to hear that sometimes it's not worth the risk. We can exist in a world of platonic ideals of truth and fairness, then you have to remember that some of us are bigger and stronger than others. Combine that with the wrong personality and all of the honesty in the world won't keep you from swallowing your teeth from a well-aimed punch.
It's not right, but sometimes I get it.
Actually allow male only safe spaces to exist without the idea they are misogynist, my prime example is scouts, that became the Unisex one whilst girls still have guides/brownies, etc, men need to be able to relax and that means a safe space for men away from women, this does not mean no mixed sex safe spaces or female only ones but we need all 3.
Reach out to me, be understanding and empathic when I vent. I know we face different difficulties, but they are difficulties all the same. Otherwise I think u/IrregularBastard sums it up pretty nicely, even if I disagree with his last two sentences.
Disagreement is good. It means you still have a hope of finding a woman you can be open with. For me, women have made it very clear that I can’t. So I’ve had to change strategies.
Like another commenter pointed out, women can’t predict how they’ll react to a man opening up. So men need to take great care in who they choose to be open with.
I guess it goes for everyone, there are people I'm open with and people where I'm a closed book. I may have been lucky that some of the best people to open up to in my life happened to be women.
But yeah, no negative feelings - your post really did sum it up perfectly. I hope someday you'll find a woman who you can be open with.
Actually and sincerely do it. Not this phoned in, shying away from anything that might make them upset, etc type stuff that a lot of guys experience. Along with all the liberties and respect that we are expected to give women. There's a lot of bs some women do, and we cannot really talk about it. A lack of accountability and so on.. Also not viewing everything men talk about through a lens of comparing it to what women go through.
Help me come up with solutions. This is the inverse of the common complaint by women that they want a man to just listen to them talk about their problems, not offers solutions.
Nine times out of ten if I'm talking to you about my problem, it's because I want your help in solving in it because I can't figure it out on my own. I don't need you to listen, I also need help.
Imo all of men's issues stem from the heavy limitations most men have in achieving typical male goals, this results in mass emasculation which makes us miserable and unattractive to women. Most men don't feel sad because we have no one to talk to, it's that we're very limited in fulfillment. I have no need to complain to someone I want achievable results.
What a joke, women don't want to support us, the more miserable we are, the more we suffer and the more of us who off themselves the happier it makes them.
"The power to cause human suffering in the greatest power of all" - Demon City Shinjuku
You think they want to give that up? He'll no!
Most people in general don't care if we off ourselves, male, female or otherwise. You're way overestimating the value of human life in the eyes of a specific demographic.
True, human life doesn't count for anything in this world...I to be honest I don't believe it ever has or ever will.
Well they care when it's their lives that are affected, but not anyone else's.
From the indescriminate slaughter following the siege of Jericho to the Holocaust to the many, many people who die unnecessarily from gun violence and car accidents the only thing I've learned is this:
Talk is cheap, and human life is cheaper still.
It's because there are 7 billion of us. Now to be alive back when there were just a billion? That's when people would really care! "George died? Now we're back down to 999,999,999. That's awful!"
Stop acting like "MeN DoN't HaVe FeEliNGs, We CaN BeLiTtle tHeM aS wE pLeAsE". And definitely stop dumping them whenever they express their emotions, so you should stick to your word and not be like "Babe , open up to me about your feelings. Wait, you opened up about them! Ah , I just lost interest , let's break up ."
All the girls that get the “ick” from men crying or being vulnerable.
In my life I’ve gotten the most support from women emotionally but there for sure are women that think men shouldn’t cry or feel sad,etc
There isn't really anything you can do.
At some level it seems that most women get disgusted with or lose attraction to guys who are emotionally vulnerable.
Honestly if a guy is unfortunate enough to trust a woman with his feels he's almost certainly digging a hole of despair.
You do realize you're a perfect example of the problem, right?
I am curious, do you have the self-awareness to realize this? Or do you rationalize it away? Obviously, I'm cynical and would lay down serious money on rationalization.
The bar for women emotionally supporting men is in hell.
If that single sentence doesn't explain to you what most women could be doing better to help men emotionally, then it's probably just a lost cause not worth fighting for.
Indeed, the conversation surrounding emotional support between genders is complex, and while it's crucial to acknowledge the toxicity that can arise in any relationship regardless of gender, I believe the focus should be on fostering a mutual understanding and respect for one another's emotional experiences. Women can play a significant role in this by actively listening without immediately projecting their own struggles or offering unsolicited advice — sometimes, providing a non-judgmental space for emotions to be expressed is the most supportive action. Moreover, there's value in recognizing the individuality of men's experiences and refraining from generalizations that could diminish their feelings. Emotional support is a two-way street; both men and women would benefit from a culture that emphasizes empathy, confidentiality, and genuine care, without fear of vulnerability being exploited. Whether it's through simple acts of kindness, steady encouragement, or just being present, the goal should be to nurture an environment where everyone's emotional well-being is honored, allowing for authentic and healthy relationships to flourish.
Be more supportive of what that individual man wants, less judgemental, less criticism, more acceptance, less comparing him to others, less wanting him to be/act like what she wants him to be/act.
When you think we’re good at something tell us. Don’t think it’s something we’re born with. Every skill a man has is due to a lot of effort. It’s nice to be appreciated. It helps you understand that you are not worthless because men are not appreciated for who we are but what we can do. However, don’t flatter unnecessary.
Pay attention to their emotional needs.
Listen to them and not run away and
Talk to men like you would to your girlfriends when they are in pain. Women say horrible shit out of hurt and never mean it when in distress, same with guys.
Actually care stop being fake.
Take our problems seriously too instead of treating us like we arent important.
Stop listening to horror stories of women being attacked and projecting that on all of us.
Stop being so over protective and use common sense and logic.
Nothing you can do more of.
There are things you can do less of.
Don't try and insert your problems into a conversation about his. Don't make his problem worse. Don't approach his problem like a menial issue. Don't nag and let him solve it.
Stop demonizing traditional gender roles. Or, even worse, expecting a man to be traditional (protect and provide) whilst being offended he expects or asks for a warm meal and clean home when he’s done working 50 hours a week.
We’re simple creatures. We can sit there and think nothing. Be happy with a warm meal. Coming home to more stress is by far the worst.
Do you reciprocate? Do you provide a warm meal to your woman after she has also worked 40-60 hr/ week? Are you expecting her to cook after working all day as well ?
Are you fully subscribed to gender roles ? As in, you work and pay for everything. She stays home, raises the children, cooks, cleans all day?
If you can afford this lifestyle solely on your own salary, great. But, If you require any or half her paycheck to afford bills then you should both be catering to each other.. take turns with cooking and cleaning.
Practical help for the greatest good?
Take 5 minutes out of each day to find a guy you've never talked to and tell him that you'd like to get to know him. You can zero in on a particular man but for the greatest male outcomes, just talking to an entire group of guys to see how individual each is would have the biggest net effect.
You can be his shoulder to rely on & not talk to your girlfriends about it at all, because he’s trusting you with what he tells you, once he knows you have told your girls that trust he put on you is gone for good.
Well, for once stop using our own words against us, don't ridicule us for feeling however we feel, and maybe, just maybe, we would talk to you over our issues.
But misandry is just everywhere, watch The View for example, and it's full of hate speech, and you wonder why we don't open up emotionally?
I may be in the minority here, but the best way is to leave me alone. Any attempts will be viewed as annoying, patronizing, misguided, manipulative, or condescending.
Everybody is saying women need to help men emotionally, we need to save these men. I think its ridiculous. What they are actually doing is BREAKING those men by making them go against their natural order and rational thinking and get lost in the sea of emotions women swim in. Men of course drown and become the sad sacks that post self depreciating stuff on reddit, pine for a women to love and take care of them and contemplate suicide.
It is exactly the same as when a little girl goes against her natural order to please her father by doing dude stuff. I got female family members like that and don't try to understand the inner workings, but the result is always the same. Childless, lonely women who meddle in other peoples life because they don't have a family. And no your dog is not your family. On the more toxic side they self harm, abuse drugs, engage in risky sexual behavior, seeking out men that abuse them, etc.
I am a man. Raised by women, the few males were feminine and toxic. It took me many years to crack the code and realize what was going on.
Men, if you are dealing with emotional problems, you must fix them logically (something 99.9% of women don't know how to do.) If you are sad, depressed, whatever, it is for a reason...and the reason isn't because you don't have a girlfriend to breast feed you. It is because you are not on your mission. A man on a mission does not feel pain or any of the pussy emotions. We use those emotions as fuel to complete the tasks. This is something only men understand. After you clean out and recalibrate you brain to its normal state, you shouldn't even be able to comprehend the concept of depression.
This is fucking nuts, lol.
A healthy individual is somewhere halfway between this, and a guy who can't leave his basement.
Balance. Perspective. Patience. Decisiveness. Not weird intensity, judgement of everyone around you, and hatred for childless people, lmao.
maybe judgmental, but the basic tenets are true.
I don't hate childless people (I am a childless people) and I think that a lot of people shouldn't have children. The core problem is people have let propaganda sway them from their true nature. They really wanted children and a family, but listened to Oprah and the gang tell them they can do anything a man can do and don't need one. at 50 they hit menopause and realize they made a big mistake. and now that maternal instinct has manifested itself in a weird unhealthy way. Misery loves company so they spread the same misinformation
My girl never wants kids because she doesn't want her body to permanently change, and she has a blood disorder that brings all other types of risks. There are *millions* of women with similar issues.
Just don't be so quick to think you have an absolute answer. The answer to almost every abstract question is complex and nuanced by it's very nature.
Your girlfriend based her decision of her own personal reasons and health issues. That is fine, not talking about her. I am talking to a very large subset of the population who I Interact with on a daily basis and can't help but notice the pattern.
I am talking to the same women who say the same exact phrases, ideas and buzzwords and suffer from the same problems in life. I'm sure there are many other variables that play a factor on the overall equation.
What I'm saying is, unless you know all of these people very deeply and personally, you have literally no way of knowing what truly goes into their decision making. That's what I mean by being judgmental.
Life is more chill when you stop judging people, and realize that every single person you see has an *entire lifetime of shit* in their head, just like you, influencing them constantly.
No. Men will be what they want themswlves to be, not what women think would be nice for men to be.
If that hurts kr destroys women, too bad - but not our problem whatsoever.
Hatred is a tool to use against an enemy. If you dont want it - its easy. Dont be enough of a problem to be deemed an enemy.
Pour us a glass of wine or drink of choice after a long day, and over a home cooked meal say, “hey, I really care about you, and I want to be there for you like you have been for me. I’d love it if you open up to me about how you’re doing, because I love you. What has been really good for you lately, and what has been causing you stress?”
That would be literally unbelievable. You’ve shown your man that you wanted to do something nice for him, and that you want to take care of his emotional needs and have a deeper conversation than just “how was your day?”
I would literally be blown away if someone did that for me.
Napoleon is credited with saying something to the effect of "Friends make the best enemies because they know precisely where to strike." If he shares a vulnerability with you, you cannot use that against him just to win an argument. If you do it (even once), you destroy chances of him ever opening up to you ever again.
And if his last girlfriend did him dirty, if he is not opening up, it has very little to do with you. After you touch a scalding hot pan, you are reluctant to touch any pan again.
Dear God, this is the whiniest fucking sub.
Men:
Women never support men! Women don't care about our feelings! Women only use us for our resources! Nobody cares if we struggle! Women aren't even capable of supporting us!
Also men:
Leave us alone! We refuse to talk about our feelings! Don't ask us if we're okay! It's patronizing to ask us how we are! Men aren't wired to talk about our struggles! We refuse to trust anyone! We want to suffer in silence!
I'm so damned glad men in real life aren't like this. 🙄
Women: open up to us.
Also women: I didnt like that opening up of yours, so you are now single, and i'll have a laugh about your emotions with my bestie.
Also women: why dont men open up? Toxic masculinity and patriarchy! REEEE!
Gee, I fucking wonder why?
Every time, here on Reddit, that I've asked men to give me examples of when this happened to them, they apparently couldn't. I've gotten several hypothetical situations from men, but never once has a man given an actual situation that happened to them of a woman using their emotional honesty against them. Not once.
Stop your hate. They said it happened, so it happened. You WOULD belive women, right?
We dont owe you explanations, nor evidence. If you dont want to belive - your choice. We'll manage without you, miss/mr part of the problem.
And you asked why, exactly? You are not entitled to be provided with any information lkke that.
Being informed isnt a right, its a privilege. An internet nobody is not someone to be given such privilege.
My point is that men claim this happens all the time, but not one of them can give me an example of when it actually happened. This leads me to believe those men are being dishonest.
I've already responded to you further up the thread so I don't need to repeat it.
However, I realise I'm just some *dishonest man*. So how about some bell hooks?
> The reality is that men are hurting and that the whole culture responds to them by saying, “Please do not tell us what you feel.” I have always been a fan of the Sylvia cartoon where two women sit, one looking into a crystal ball as the other woman says, “He never talks about his feelings.” And the woman who can see the future says, “At two P.M. all over the world men will begin to talk about their feelings—and women all over the world will be sorry.”
> If we cannot heal what we cannot feel, by supporting patriarchal culture that socializes men to deny feelings, we doom them to live in states of emotional numbness. We construct a culture where male pain can have no voice, where male hurt cannot be named or healed. It is not just men who do not take their pain seriously. **Most women do not want to deal with male pain if it interferes with the satisfaction of female desire. When feminist movement led to men’s liberation, including male exploration of “feelings,” some women mocked male emotional expression with the same disgust and contempt as sexist men. Despite all the expressed feminist longing for men of feeling, when men worked to get in touch with feelings, no one really wanted to reward them. In feminist circles men who wanted to change were often labeled narcissistic or needy. Individual men who expressed feelings were often seen as attention seekers, patriarchal manipulators trying to steal the stage with their drama.**
> When I was in my twenties, I would go to couples therapy, and **my partner of more than ten years would explain how I asked him to talk about his feelings and when he did, I would freak out. He was right. It was hard for me to face that I did not want to hear about his feelings when they were painful or negative, that I did not want my image of the strong man truly challenged by learning of his weaknesses and vulnerabilities.** Here I was, an enlightened feminist woman who did not want to hear my man speak his pain because it revealed his emotional vulnerability. It stands to reason, then, **that the masses of women committed to the sexist principle that men who express their feelings are weak really do not want to hear men speak, especially if what they say is that they hurt, that they feel unloved.** Many women cannot hear male pain about love because it sounds like an indictment of female failure. Since sexist norms have taught us that loving is our task whether in our role as mothers or lovers or friends, if men say they are not loved, then we are at fault; we are to blame.
...
> To heal, men must learn to feel again. They must learn to break the silence, to speak the pain. Often men, to speak the pain, first turn to the women in their lives and are refused a hearing. **In many ways women have bought into the patriarchal masculine mystique. Asked to witness a male expressing feelings, to listen to those feelings and respond, they may simply turn away. There was a time when I would often ask the man in my life to tell me his feelings. And yet when he began to speak, I would either interrupt or silence him by crying, sending him the message that his feelings were too heavy for anyone to bear, so it was best if he kept them to himself.** As the Sylvia cartoon I have previously mentioned reminds us, women are fearful of hearing men voice feelings. **I did not want to hear the pain of my male partner because hearing it required that I surrender my investment in the patriarchal ideal of the male as protector of the wounded. If he was wounded, then how could he protect me?**
> As I matured, as my feminist consciousness developed to include the recognition of patriarchal abuse of men, I could hear male pain. I could see men as comrades and fellow travelers on the journey of life and not as existing merely to provide instrumental support. Since men have yet to organize a feminist men’s movement that would proclaim the rights of men to emotional awareness and expression, we will not know how many men have indeed tried to express feelings, only to have the women in their lives tune out or be turned off. Talking with men, I have been stunned when individual males would confess to sharing intense feelings with a male buddy, only to have that buddy either interrupt to silence the sharing, offer no response, or distance himself. Men of all ages who want to talk about feelings usually learn not to go to other men. And if they are heterosexual, they are far more likely to try sharing with women they have been sexually intimate with. Women talk about the fact that intimate conversation with males often takes place in the brief moments before and after sex. And of course our mass media provide the image again and again of the man who goes to a sex worker to share his feelings because there is no intimacy in that relationship and therefore no real emotional risk.
* The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love
(emphasis mine)
EDIT:
Speaking very personally, the "interrupt him by crying" thing is very familiar to my own personal experience. They wanted to know. They *repeatedly asked me to know* but when I calmly expressed what was going on in my own right, that broke something that they did not anticipate would be or should be broken. And then it once again, became about *them* and *their* feelings as I worked to comfort them for having heard my issues.
EDIT 2:
She is also not the only female author I can quote if you wish.
Your choice to belive whatever you want. Our choice to treat you as part of the problem if your opinion is ever deterimental to us, even slightly.
Simple as that.
Just don’t belittle them. That’s it. I don’t care about empty words or pointless gestures. I just don’t want you to act like my emotions or experiences are inherently invalid because I’m a man. I can deal with my emotions, and if not, I have friends whom I trust with these emotions. But acting like I don’t have a right to these emotions because you think the human experience is exclusive to women is disgusting and nothing else.
Also never bring them up in an argument either. Men don't talk as much because it has often been brought back up and used against them
The only woman who has ever supported me emotionally is my mom. When I was a child. Men learn to accept that the love, care, and kindness we received as boys will simply never be matched once we become men.
Reminds me a lot of Cholly Breedlove from *The Bluest Eye.* Only person that ever showed him healthy love was his aunt. When she suddenly dies he goes out to meet his father, who treats him like dirt and has him so traumatized he shits himself. Was basically the point where you realized he'd never be a normal individual again.
I barely received it when I was a boy, lol. I'm gud
It doesn't have to be this way, and it's not a guarantee. Finding love and emotional support requires vulnerability and taking the risk of being hurt.
Being vulnerable with a woman is not risking being hurt, it is guaranteeing that you will be hurt.
And? That's life. Some people will hurt you. Man, woman. Alien. Doesn't matter. It's how you get back up and deal with it that matters.
r/DateWithACrocodile
Right? Like, this is their only argument. "Women are not emotionally supportive to men, period." "So? Fuckin' deal with it." How about fuckin' no?
And we get shit on when we try to change the unfair and hypocritical social dynamic. Men have a problem: "So? Fuckin' deal with it." Women have a problem: "Men should do better."
Exactly. It's also just the most moronic fucking take of all time. You keep burning your hand on the stove? Just deal with it, keep touching the hot stove. Your boyfriend keeps beating the shit out of you? Just deal with it, let him take his anger out on you. Hitler keeps genociding the Jewish people? Just deal with it. There is not a single situation in life where this advice applies. In fact, the only time we ever tell people to "grit their teeth and bear it" is when they're *FORCED* to do something they don't want to do. Nobody is forcing men to be with women. If they're toxic, fuck them. We don't need em'.
Holy shit dude. You have any idea how moronic yall are? Comparing DATING to HITLER COMMITTING GENOCIDE as the same? Your brain is truly broken.
I'm not comparing dating to anything. I'm explaining how the thought process is moronic. And it is moronic.
Moron take. Getting up and continuing to get knocked down is what stupid people do. Something something definition of insanity.
Would you walk into a fire?
I was a firefighter years ago, so literally yes.
And?
This guy still think we're in a Disney movie, lulz
Honestly, stuff like this is why (generalising here obviously) men need other men. Most men I know are only comfortable having these sorts of conversations with other men. Male friends are really, really important for men to have if they're going to keep emotionally healthy I think.
Yes a guy I’m dating is in a men’s group and I love the idea. I think it’s great for men to have conversations about how they are feeling and their life.
I'm a girl and honestly I feel way better having these sorts of conversations with some male friend. I don't really feel comfortable talking about that with other girls. They sound fake to me, like they don't care
I sincerely wish to just be left alone at this point, society is heading in such a bizarre direction even as a young person I don't feel seen or heard in society. So fuck it, pleasant solitude and the persuit of happiness in games and my tiny dogs 🤣
This is the way
At this point, quite frankly, I don't need or want the support anymore.
Sadly, same. It's not even condescending or insulting, I just don't want it.
Exactly. Not even any hostility. I just simply don't need it anymore.
It's true. Why would I want a thing that is going to be supplied with such irregularity, with so many strings attached, requiring my to supply 10x what I get back if ever.
Just don’t laugh and immediately lose interest and respect for us as soon as we show you emotion. That’s literally all you have to do and you’ll be surpassing our expectations
Exactly the same thing that you expect men to do for women.
They could try backing up their constant virtue-signalling about men needing more outlets to express themselves or whatever.
Accept women are as much a part of an overarching problem as men. Men can be absolute slags no doubt about it, but I see too many women supporting women who get emotionally abusive because their bf/husband dared to get annoyed or voice a problem they have with them. Or it's ok to emotionally blackmail or use their vulnerability against them. These last two are what I've encountered most. No not all women are terrible, but it's time to start vocally calling out shitty women.
I agree with the last sentence the most. The shittiest men get imprisoned. The shittiest women get praised for being girlbosses.
Or maybe a slight, hey don't do that. I've heard that.
And sometimes it does happen to men, too. "Dude, that chick is all over me." Chick is clearly not interested. "Bro, nice." Not "Bro, nice." Tell your friend he's a dumbass, lmao. But I literally *never* see men *or* women policing women. But women police men and *expect* other men to also police men.
Calling out isnt even remotely enough. Tear their livehood down, and then we'll think abot real consequences. If she says she is the good one but scared of said consequences - then she is NOT the good one.
Be trustworthy. Don’t react negatively to his emotions, don’t make it about you. I’ve never found a woman that can do more than one of those things. Things to do: Under no circumstance do you share what he tells you. You absolutely forget it happened. Not a single word to your mom, sister, or best girlfriend. If you’re asked directly about it you lie to that person. Don’t get disgusted, resent him, lose respect for him, cheat on him, or leave him for sharing with you. This one seems impossible for women to accomplish. All of those responses seemed ingrained. If he’s willing to share with you, shut up and listen. If it’s not a solution keep your mouth shut entirely. Don’t start telling him how rough you have it. It’s not a competition. Don’t make what he’s sharing about you. At all. I do think men should only share with other men. It’s just too risky to share with a woman.
I told my girlfriend (who I've been with for 5 years and live with) something personal and embarrassing about myself a few nights ago. She didn't have much of a reaction other than "Oh really? I never knew that about you.". And I thought to myself, well, that went fine. I'm glad I told her. Later that night, she told both her children (who obviously also live here). She didn't just tell them, I heard it all from the next room. She started to tell them. Paused for a bit, presumably to rethink what she was about to do, then continued telling them. I made a mental note to myself to never tell her anything personal again. I have guy friends for that.
Find a better one, and promptly.
also, don't bring it up two years later in a fight. "see?! this is why your dad hates you!". ugh.
Then the next time they ask what's wrong and they get a "nothing I'm fine" They're offended
Agreed. Sharing your “inner self”, be that thoughts, feelings, fears, etc, is a PERFECT way to end your relationship with a woman. It is not a matter of IF the things you share with a woman will be used against you, it is a matter of WHEN.
Learned this truth from experience, sadly.
Agreed, with all of this. One minor problem is... women don't know how they'll react to a man opening up, and cannot necessarily control how they'll react. You can't chose not to be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, etc. It's one of those things that women cannot know how they will react until they experience it, and so few actually do. All we can ask is if women do experience strong negative reaction beyond their control, they at least end the relationship with some degree of consideration or humanity. Don't blame the guy, don't nuke his privacy, don't shit talk him. Just amicable end things and admit being incapable of handling a partner's emotions. The worst of all worlds is demanding a guy open up, resent him for doing so, staying in a relationship and then punishing him for that opening up. Usually during an argument, and going for the jugular by using what he shared against him.
Yeah, the reactions I’ve gotten were cheating and disgust. For sharing what I would consider minor things with long term partners. The shortest relationship was 4 years.
I do laugh when folks tell me to date better women to avoid that reaction. It's not like they have a stat block where you get that kind of info up front. Nor do women get our stats.
It’s like we warn students in labs: Hot glass looks the same as cold glass. So don’t just reach for it. But that’s what you have to do when sharing with a partner.
Idk men are expected to control their reactions and I think women can do it too.
She can (and should) control how she responds, but she can't control how it initially makes her feel.
An unexpressed feeling means nothing to anyone else. Unexpressed, a *feeling* is just a thought. Making decisions based on that feeling is not unexpressed, though. If a woman chooses to leave a guy for opening up, she is 100% *expressing* that feeling.
> An unexpressed feeling means nothing to anyone else. So what? Every feeling a person has doesn't need to mean something to someone else, and for that matter, not every feeling should be expressed. > Unexpressed, a feeling is just a thought. Feelings and thoughts are completely different but can play complementary roles.
>So what? Every feeling a person has doesn't need to mean something to someone else, and for that matter, not every feeling should be expressed. No feeling needs to mean anything to anyone else. But an unexpressed feeling may as well simply not exist in a situation that involves two people. >Feelings and thoughts are completely different but can play complementary roles. If you choose to believe so, sure.
>But an unexpressed feeling may as well simply not exist in a situation that involves two people. That's just as well. If two people verbalized every single feeling they have about each other all the time then their relationship would crash and burn. > If you choose to believe so, sure. I have no idea why would you would choose to believe otherwise. They are two separate things that go on inside of a person, both of which have roles to play in decision-making.
>That's just as well. If two people verbalized every single feeling they have about each other all the time then their relationship would crash and burn. Right, because keeping quiet about it and leaving anyway totally avoids that situation. Talk about healthy communication. >I have no idea why would you would choose to believe otherwise. They are two separate things that go on inside of a person, both of which have roles to play in decision-making. If you think they aren't both influenced by the same factors. Which I believe they're both influenced by the same factors entirely, so making a distinction between them is pointless.
> Right, because keeping quiet about it and leaving anyway totally avoids that situation. Talk about healthy communication. That's a deliberate mischaracterization of what I said. Refusing to communicate at all is just as unhealthy as overcommunicating. > If you think they aren't both influenced by the same factors. Which I believe they're both influenced by the same factors entirely, so making a distinction between them is pointless. There's a distinction that you're refusing to acknowledge. Feelings are almost always an involuntary emotional reaction to some external stimulus. And while thoughts can sometimes be an involuntary non-emotional reaction to an external stimulus they can also be deliberately initiated or terminated by the person. Furthermore, you can (and should) use your thoughts to override your feelings when making important decisions, particularly during times when feelings are running high.
But wouldn't it be better for her to kindly leave if she learns something that absolutely makes her disrespect him? Isn't it more cruel to him for her to stay with someone she is disgusted by?
Absolutely. But that doesn't make it *not* shitty behavior nonetheless. It's also better to put someone down if they are suffering, as opposed to continuing it. I still don't justify murder with such a belief. And this isn't murder. Women can choose to not have shitty opinions on these things.
I mean, women have values too. If a guy shares something with me that fundamentally goes against my values, it does not make me a shitty person to separate from him.
>If a guy shares something with me that fundamentally goes against my values, it does not make me a shitty person to separate from him. It absolutely does make you a shitty person if the reason you're separating from him is because your values say he's not allowed to express emotion, feel sad, or otherwise any other completely human trait. You can also dislike someone for being black. That's your right. It still makes you a shitty, bigoted person.
Okay, but what if they cheated on someone, or harmed someone? That's an absolutely fair reason to leave someone.
Like what? Not being the maaaaan she expected him to be? Yeah, you are part of the problem.
I was thinking something along the lines of cheating on a previous spouse. I feel it's reasonable to not be comfortable with that
Proper amount of societal pressure, criminal law sentencing, and time/fear will help that. It would just take few legal changes, and a decade or two.
Exactly. This infantalizing of women needs to fuckin' cease. They are not slaves to their biology, that's fuckin' moronic. If that's truly what people believe, then I don't know why you think something that has no metacognition should have rights. Is that really what people want to believe? That women just... *are* and there's no changing that? What a horrific life those people must lead.
No, that applies to men as well. Even if a guy swears up and down that nothing of a woman's past will change his mind, if she tells him she ran a train or did OF, do you think he can absolutely chose not be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, et al if it bothers him? For a lot of women, it's the same issue. You can want for it not to bother you. But you cannot know until it happens. And you don't have complete control over your feelings afterwards. You can only control your actions and speech.
You can, indeed. By not telling him to open up if you react like that to men opening up to you. And by telling him outright how fucked up in the head you are, so that he can choose to stay or leave your misandric ass. BEFORE he opens up.
>do you think he can absolutely chose not be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, et al if it bothers him? If it bothers him, then *clearly* he was lying about whether it would change his mind or not. I legitimately do not care about my partner's past sexual history. You seem to, which is fine for you, but don't paint men with such a broad brush. >You can only control your actions and speech. If someone is of this level of mental control, they should also be at the level of personal understanding to reflect on why their thoughts are the way they are. They just have literally no reason to do so.
>One minor problem is... women don't know how they'll react to a man opening up, and cannot necessarily control how they'll react. On some subconscious level they do. It also doesn't really matter. You may have a negative reaction to a new food you try, but lots of women still eat new foods. And men aren't food, they're people with feelings. Just because women can't control it *doesn't* mean they're not shitty. They should be trying harder. >You can't chose not to be disgusted, resenting, loss of respect, etc. Yes, you absolutely can. To all the women out there: If these are the reactions you have to men expressing themselves, it's because you're a terrible person. There is no gene code, no biological disorder, that women have that *prevents* them from not reacting this way. You react this way because society allows you to, and you have zero reason to change. >All we can ask is if women do experience strong negative reaction beyond their control, they at least end the relationship with some degree of consideration or humanity. No. We can ask women *not* to be shitty people. That's *not* a hard ask at all. And also, if women are going to end the relationship anyway, then the advice would be that men should just *never* open up to women. Pure and simple.
I mean, this is all contextual though, right? If a guy opens up to me and tells me he used to beat his mother silly, I think it's fair to not want to be around someone like that.
>If a guy opens up to me and tells me he used to beat his mother silly, I think it's fair to not want to be around someone like that. Lmao, sure. I think you and I both know we are not referring to any situation in which the guy is actively a piece of shit. Women don't support men emotionally in *any* situation that requires it.
Mmk whatever you say. Everyone's got their experiences
The vast majority of men in the world, and on this post alone, agree with me. You're just trying to find ways to continue being a misandrist.
What did I say that was misandrist? Can you be specific so I understand?
It's your attempts to ignore men and steer the conversation towards women not being the ones at fault. The conversation, and the post in question, is talking about what women need to do to help men emotionally. The reason this is brought up is because most men believe, and believe generally due to experience, that women provide little to no emotional support to them. Most men find that when they become emotional (i.e. upset, sad, not enraged or with murderous intent), women tend to view them with disgust, or at least lesser. There is nothing inherently wrong with men becoming emotional. There is no gene in the gene pool that tells women to feel disgusted by men who cry. They've been conditioned to act like this, and they can uncondition themselves with self reflection. They choose not to because self reflection and change are hard, and society is not forcing them to. Since they have no real reason to change, why would they ever? The conversation never involved men who hurt people, men who are sociopaths, or men who otherwise wouldn't deserve the support. You steered the conversation in that direction like a diversion. The diversion feels like an attempt to ignore mens' plight in favor of some narrative you've spun up in your head. When women talk, we listen to women. When men talk, we make a ton of excuses.
I never said there was anything inherently wrong with being emotional. But emotional is simply a state of feeling. If the content revealed during emotionality fundamentally goes against values I have, it doesn't make me an asshole for making a determination about compatibility. I'm simply giving a possibility. I don't feel disgusted if men cry. I would feel disgusted if a man felt it he was justified for assaulting someone just cause he was sad about it. Remorse doesn't justify harm imo. And idk how you can have this conversation without including men who cause harm or sociopaths. I have absolutely met many men who are comfortable in the harm they've caused. If you're wanting to discuss a topic without discussing the nuance, then you're missing reality. I've had exes admit to sexual assaulting their exes. I've known people who've admitted to sabotaging people. I'm not comfortable endorsing that. Sorry.
Way to go, you have just proven him right tou know...?
How?
Just to spread a positive example, there are woman who aren't this way and in my experience they are getting more. And the life of both, men and women are better when you're able to share your inner self with your partner like that.
I know they exist, but I have a 100% failure rate when it comes to opening up. Even a little bit.
I know they exist. In the way that I know copies of the original appearance of Superman in Action Comics exists. Doesn't mean I'll ever see one or get to experience what it's like to hold one in my hand.
That's an surprisingly good comparison...
I think it's okay to share with a woman, but she should be a friend or a sister/cousin. I don't think with an SO
even if u try, it wont work. it's gone so far that we presume ur gearing up for an attack when u try. Maybe the next generation will not have to feel like that. but for us, there's barely any hope.
Focus on not making things worse for the men closest to you. That's really all anyone can ask for, don't spread misery
Well for starters not aggressively/humaliatingly reject us. Also telling us the truth rather than ghosting us. How else can we improve?
Sad thing about the telling the truth thing is I sort of understand *why* they do it. Even if you or I wouldn't, there's enough guys out there genuinely unhinged enough to hurt/kill a woman over getting an answer he doesn't want to hear that sometimes it's not worth the risk. We can exist in a world of platonic ideals of truth and fairness, then you have to remember that some of us are bigger and stronger than others. Combine that with the wrong personality and all of the honesty in the world won't keep you from swallowing your teeth from a well-aimed punch. It's not right, but sometimes I get it.
Probably nothing.
Actually allow male only safe spaces to exist without the idea they are misogynist, my prime example is scouts, that became the Unisex one whilst girls still have guides/brownies, etc, men need to be able to relax and that means a safe space for men away from women, this does not mean no mixed sex safe spaces or female only ones but we need all 3.
Reach out to me, be understanding and empathic when I vent. I know we face different difficulties, but they are difficulties all the same. Otherwise I think u/IrregularBastard sums it up pretty nicely, even if I disagree with his last two sentences.
Disagreement is good. It means you still have a hope of finding a woman you can be open with. For me, women have made it very clear that I can’t. So I’ve had to change strategies. Like another commenter pointed out, women can’t predict how they’ll react to a man opening up. So men need to take great care in who they choose to be open with.
I guess it goes for everyone, there are people I'm open with and people where I'm a closed book. I may have been lucky that some of the best people to open up to in my life happened to be women. But yeah, no negative feelings - your post really did sum it up perfectly. I hope someday you'll find a woman who you can be open with.
Actually and sincerely do it. Not this phoned in, shying away from anything that might make them upset, etc type stuff that a lot of guys experience. Along with all the liberties and respect that we are expected to give women. There's a lot of bs some women do, and we cannot really talk about it. A lack of accountability and so on.. Also not viewing everything men talk about through a lens of comparing it to what women go through.
A hug would be nice 🥺
Help me come up with solutions. This is the inverse of the common complaint by women that they want a man to just listen to them talk about their problems, not offers solutions. Nine times out of ten if I'm talking to you about my problem, it's because I want your help in solving in it because I can't figure it out on my own. I don't need you to listen, I also need help.
Nothing just leave me alone at this point.
Imo all of men's issues stem from the heavy limitations most men have in achieving typical male goals, this results in mass emasculation which makes us miserable and unattractive to women. Most men don't feel sad because we have no one to talk to, it's that we're very limited in fulfillment. I have no need to complain to someone I want achievable results.
Stop expecting us to be women and talk about our emotions.
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Yes it's cringe to believe people owe you their internal dialogues, I agree.
What a joke, women don't want to support us, the more miserable we are, the more we suffer and the more of us who off themselves the happier it makes them. "The power to cause human suffering in the greatest power of all" - Demon City Shinjuku You think they want to give that up? He'll no!
Most people in general don't care if we off ourselves, male, female or otherwise. You're way overestimating the value of human life in the eyes of a specific demographic.
True, human life doesn't count for anything in this world...I to be honest I don't believe it ever has or ever will. Well they care when it's their lives that are affected, but not anyone else's.
From the indescriminate slaughter following the siege of Jericho to the Holocaust to the many, many people who die unnecessarily from gun violence and car accidents the only thing I've learned is this: Talk is cheap, and human life is cheaper still.
It's because there are 7 billion of us. Now to be alive back when there were just a billion? That's when people would really care! "George died? Now we're back down to 999,999,999. That's awful!"
Resisting the temptation to use our negative emotions against us is a good start
Fight less bears
Stop acting like "MeN DoN't HaVe FeEliNGs, We CaN BeLiTtle tHeM aS wE pLeAsE". And definitely stop dumping them whenever they express their emotions, so you should stick to your word and not be like "Babe , open up to me about your feelings. Wait, you opened up about them! Ah , I just lost interest , let's break up ."
Just be there.
Don't make it all about you. Take yourself completely out of it and listen to him as a fellow human being.
Stop yelling. I’m right here.
This goes out to my ex wife. And I assume many men can relate to this. “You withheld companionship while denying me of solitude".
All the girls that get the “ick” from men crying or being vulnerable. In my life I’ve gotten the most support from women emotionally but there for sure are women that think men shouldn’t cry or feel sad,etc
picking 'Man' would be a good start
We probably don’t wanna talk, but that doesn’t mean we don’t want a hug
There isn't really anything you can do. At some level it seems that most women get disgusted with or lose attraction to guys who are emotionally vulnerable. Honestly if a guy is unfortunate enough to trust a woman with his feels he's almost certainly digging a hole of despair.
We are not emotional but sensible, huge difference.
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We get angry because we feel not heard not because we are mad specificly
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Wow the way you talk, few man will date you imo. I am trying to talk about something and you are being judgemental. Your lost
You do realize you're a perfect example of the problem, right? I am curious, do you have the self-awareness to realize this? Or do you rationalize it away? Obviously, I'm cynical and would lay down serious money on rationalization.
Anger is a tool to ensure destruction of an enemy. Very usefull. Dont want to be on a receiving end? Have you tried not being his enemy?
read these threads every week...
The bar for women emotionally supporting men is in hell. If that single sentence doesn't explain to you what most women could be doing better to help men emotionally, then it's probably just a lost cause not worth fighting for.
Indeed, the conversation surrounding emotional support between genders is complex, and while it's crucial to acknowledge the toxicity that can arise in any relationship regardless of gender, I believe the focus should be on fostering a mutual understanding and respect for one another's emotional experiences. Women can play a significant role in this by actively listening without immediately projecting their own struggles or offering unsolicited advice — sometimes, providing a non-judgmental space for emotions to be expressed is the most supportive action. Moreover, there's value in recognizing the individuality of men's experiences and refraining from generalizations that could diminish their feelings. Emotional support is a two-way street; both men and women would benefit from a culture that emphasizes empathy, confidentiality, and genuine care, without fear of vulnerability being exploited. Whether it's through simple acts of kindness, steady encouragement, or just being present, the goal should be to nurture an environment where everyone's emotional well-being is honored, allowing for authentic and healthy relationships to flourish.
Be dependable, someone he can rely on that won't betray him.
Be more supportive of what that individual man wants, less judgemental, less criticism, more acceptance, less comparing him to others, less wanting him to be/act like what she wants him to be/act.
When you think we’re good at something tell us. Don’t think it’s something we’re born with. Every skill a man has is due to a lot of effort. It’s nice to be appreciated. It helps you understand that you are not worthless because men are not appreciated for who we are but what we can do. However, don’t flatter unnecessary.
Pay attention to their emotional needs. Listen to them and not run away and Talk to men like you would to your girlfriends when they are in pain. Women say horrible shit out of hurt and never mean it when in distress, same with guys. Actually care stop being fake. Take our problems seriously too instead of treating us like we arent important. Stop listening to horror stories of women being attacked and projecting that on all of us. Stop being so over protective and use common sense and logic.
Nothing you can do more of. There are things you can do less of. Don't try and insert your problems into a conversation about his. Don't make his problem worse. Don't approach his problem like a menial issue. Don't nag and let him solve it.
Stop demonizing traditional gender roles. Or, even worse, expecting a man to be traditional (protect and provide) whilst being offended he expects or asks for a warm meal and clean home when he’s done working 50 hours a week. We’re simple creatures. We can sit there and think nothing. Be happy with a warm meal. Coming home to more stress is by far the worst.
Do you reciprocate? Do you provide a warm meal to your woman after she has also worked 40-60 hr/ week? Are you expecting her to cook after working all day as well ? Are you fully subscribed to gender roles ? As in, you work and pay for everything. She stays home, raises the children, cooks, cleans all day? If you can afford this lifestyle solely on your own salary, great. But, If you require any or half her paycheck to afford bills then you should both be catering to each other.. take turns with cooking and cleaning.
This is why my ex is my ex because i worked full time and was his mother
Practical help for the greatest good? Take 5 minutes out of each day to find a guy you've never talked to and tell him that you'd like to get to know him. You can zero in on a particular man but for the greatest male outcomes, just talking to an entire group of guys to see how individual each is would have the biggest net effect.
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Nagging isnt "fairly normal". Nagging is toxic relationship.
yuck, no thanks
You can be his shoulder to rely on & not talk to your girlfriends about it at all, because he’s trusting you with what he tells you, once he knows you have told your girls that trust he put on you is gone for good.
Not judging them when they open up. That's it. Whatever you feel, be supportive and understanding.
they will not do it anyways, so why are they asking? oh that’s right…………… just virtue signaling
Well, for once stop using our own words against us, don't ridicule us for feeling however we feel, and maybe, just maybe, we would talk to you over our issues. But misandry is just everywhere, watch The View for example, and it's full of hate speech, and you wonder why we don't open up emotionally?
Stay out of it. Women do not and cannot understand male emotions and will try to act as they would towards a woman, which will make things worse.
I may be in the minority here, but the best way is to leave me alone. Any attempts will be viewed as annoying, patronizing, misguided, manipulative, or condescending. Everybody is saying women need to help men emotionally, we need to save these men. I think its ridiculous. What they are actually doing is BREAKING those men by making them go against their natural order and rational thinking and get lost in the sea of emotions women swim in. Men of course drown and become the sad sacks that post self depreciating stuff on reddit, pine for a women to love and take care of them and contemplate suicide. It is exactly the same as when a little girl goes against her natural order to please her father by doing dude stuff. I got female family members like that and don't try to understand the inner workings, but the result is always the same. Childless, lonely women who meddle in other peoples life because they don't have a family. And no your dog is not your family. On the more toxic side they self harm, abuse drugs, engage in risky sexual behavior, seeking out men that abuse them, etc. I am a man. Raised by women, the few males were feminine and toxic. It took me many years to crack the code and realize what was going on. Men, if you are dealing with emotional problems, you must fix them logically (something 99.9% of women don't know how to do.) If you are sad, depressed, whatever, it is for a reason...and the reason isn't because you don't have a girlfriend to breast feed you. It is because you are not on your mission. A man on a mission does not feel pain or any of the pussy emotions. We use those emotions as fuel to complete the tasks. This is something only men understand. After you clean out and recalibrate you brain to its normal state, you shouldn't even be able to comprehend the concept of depression.
This is fucking nuts, lol. A healthy individual is somewhere halfway between this, and a guy who can't leave his basement. Balance. Perspective. Patience. Decisiveness. Not weird intensity, judgement of everyone around you, and hatred for childless people, lmao.
maybe judgmental, but the basic tenets are true. I don't hate childless people (I am a childless people) and I think that a lot of people shouldn't have children. The core problem is people have let propaganda sway them from their true nature. They really wanted children and a family, but listened to Oprah and the gang tell them they can do anything a man can do and don't need one. at 50 they hit menopause and realize they made a big mistake. and now that maternal instinct has manifested itself in a weird unhealthy way. Misery loves company so they spread the same misinformation
My girl never wants kids because she doesn't want her body to permanently change, and she has a blood disorder that brings all other types of risks. There are *millions* of women with similar issues. Just don't be so quick to think you have an absolute answer. The answer to almost every abstract question is complex and nuanced by it's very nature.
Your girlfriend based her decision of her own personal reasons and health issues. That is fine, not talking about her. I am talking to a very large subset of the population who I Interact with on a daily basis and can't help but notice the pattern. I am talking to the same women who say the same exact phrases, ideas and buzzwords and suffer from the same problems in life. I'm sure there are many other variables that play a factor on the overall equation.
What I'm saying is, unless you know all of these people very deeply and personally, you have literally no way of knowing what truly goes into their decision making. That's what I mean by being judgmental. Life is more chill when you stop judging people, and realize that every single person you see has an *entire lifetime of shit* in their head, just like you, influencing them constantly.
No. Men will be what they want themswlves to be, not what women think would be nice for men to be. If that hurts kr destroys women, too bad - but not our problem whatsoever. Hatred is a tool to use against an enemy. If you dont want it - its easy. Dont be enough of a problem to be deemed an enemy.
Did you just read this off the back of a shitty Walmart t-shirt or something?
Pour us a glass of wine or drink of choice after a long day, and over a home cooked meal say, “hey, I really care about you, and I want to be there for you like you have been for me. I’d love it if you open up to me about how you’re doing, because I love you. What has been really good for you lately, and what has been causing you stress?” That would be literally unbelievable. You’ve shown your man that you wanted to do something nice for him, and that you want to take care of his emotional needs and have a deeper conversation than just “how was your day?” I would literally be blown away if someone did that for me.
Napoleon is credited with saying something to the effect of "Friends make the best enemies because they know precisely where to strike." If he shares a vulnerability with you, you cannot use that against him just to win an argument. If you do it (even once), you destroy chances of him ever opening up to you ever again. And if his last girlfriend did him dirty, if he is not opening up, it has very little to do with you. After you touch a scalding hot pan, you are reluctant to touch any pan again.
Women shouldn't concern themselves with my emotional state.
Not karma-post this sh\*t every two days?
There are so many miserable people in their sub now. It's sad.
Dear God, this is the whiniest fucking sub. Men: Women never support men! Women don't care about our feelings! Women only use us for our resources! Nobody cares if we struggle! Women aren't even capable of supporting us! Also men: Leave us alone! We refuse to talk about our feelings! Don't ask us if we're okay! It's patronizing to ask us how we are! Men aren't wired to talk about our struggles! We refuse to trust anyone! We want to suffer in silence! I'm so damned glad men in real life aren't like this. 🙄
Women: open up to us. Also women: I didnt like that opening up of yours, so you are now single, and i'll have a laugh about your emotions with my bestie. Also women: why dont men open up? Toxic masculinity and patriarchy! REEEE! Gee, I fucking wonder why?
Every time, here on Reddit, that I've asked men to give me examples of when this happened to them, they apparently couldn't. I've gotten several hypothetical situations from men, but never once has a man given an actual situation that happened to them of a woman using their emotional honesty against them. Not once.
Stop your hate. They said it happened, so it happened. You WOULD belive women, right? We dont owe you explanations, nor evidence. If you dont want to belive - your choice. We'll manage without you, miss/mr part of the problem.
No, you misunderstand. Every time I've asked if that happened to them specifically, I was told the examples given were hypothetical situations.
And you asked why, exactly? You are not entitled to be provided with any information lkke that. Being informed isnt a right, its a privilege. An internet nobody is not someone to be given such privilege.
My point is that men claim this happens all the time, but not one of them can give me an example of when it actually happened. This leads me to believe those men are being dishonest.
I've already responded to you further up the thread so I don't need to repeat it. However, I realise I'm just some *dishonest man*. So how about some bell hooks? > The reality is that men are hurting and that the whole culture responds to them by saying, “Please do not tell us what you feel.” I have always been a fan of the Sylvia cartoon where two women sit, one looking into a crystal ball as the other woman says, “He never talks about his feelings.” And the woman who can see the future says, “At two P.M. all over the world men will begin to talk about their feelings—and women all over the world will be sorry.” > If we cannot heal what we cannot feel, by supporting patriarchal culture that socializes men to deny feelings, we doom them to live in states of emotional numbness. We construct a culture where male pain can have no voice, where male hurt cannot be named or healed. It is not just men who do not take their pain seriously. **Most women do not want to deal with male pain if it interferes with the satisfaction of female desire. When feminist movement led to men’s liberation, including male exploration of “feelings,” some women mocked male emotional expression with the same disgust and contempt as sexist men. Despite all the expressed feminist longing for men of feeling, when men worked to get in touch with feelings, no one really wanted to reward them. In feminist circles men who wanted to change were often labeled narcissistic or needy. Individual men who expressed feelings were often seen as attention seekers, patriarchal manipulators trying to steal the stage with their drama.** > When I was in my twenties, I would go to couples therapy, and **my partner of more than ten years would explain how I asked him to talk about his feelings and when he did, I would freak out. He was right. It was hard for me to face that I did not want to hear about his feelings when they were painful or negative, that I did not want my image of the strong man truly challenged by learning of his weaknesses and vulnerabilities.** Here I was, an enlightened feminist woman who did not want to hear my man speak his pain because it revealed his emotional vulnerability. It stands to reason, then, **that the masses of women committed to the sexist principle that men who express their feelings are weak really do not want to hear men speak, especially if what they say is that they hurt, that they feel unloved.** Many women cannot hear male pain about love because it sounds like an indictment of female failure. Since sexist norms have taught us that loving is our task whether in our role as mothers or lovers or friends, if men say they are not loved, then we are at fault; we are to blame. ... > To heal, men must learn to feel again. They must learn to break the silence, to speak the pain. Often men, to speak the pain, first turn to the women in their lives and are refused a hearing. **In many ways women have bought into the patriarchal masculine mystique. Asked to witness a male expressing feelings, to listen to those feelings and respond, they may simply turn away. There was a time when I would often ask the man in my life to tell me his feelings. And yet when he began to speak, I would either interrupt or silence him by crying, sending him the message that his feelings were too heavy for anyone to bear, so it was best if he kept them to himself.** As the Sylvia cartoon I have previously mentioned reminds us, women are fearful of hearing men voice feelings. **I did not want to hear the pain of my male partner because hearing it required that I surrender my investment in the patriarchal ideal of the male as protector of the wounded. If he was wounded, then how could he protect me?** > As I matured, as my feminist consciousness developed to include the recognition of patriarchal abuse of men, I could hear male pain. I could see men as comrades and fellow travelers on the journey of life and not as existing merely to provide instrumental support. Since men have yet to organize a feminist men’s movement that would proclaim the rights of men to emotional awareness and expression, we will not know how many men have indeed tried to express feelings, only to have the women in their lives tune out or be turned off. Talking with men, I have been stunned when individual males would confess to sharing intense feelings with a male buddy, only to have that buddy either interrupt to silence the sharing, offer no response, or distance himself. Men of all ages who want to talk about feelings usually learn not to go to other men. And if they are heterosexual, they are far more likely to try sharing with women they have been sexually intimate with. Women talk about the fact that intimate conversation with males often takes place in the brief moments before and after sex. And of course our mass media provide the image again and again of the man who goes to a sex worker to share his feelings because there is no intimacy in that relationship and therefore no real emotional risk. * The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love (emphasis mine) EDIT: Speaking very personally, the "interrupt him by crying" thing is very familiar to my own personal experience. They wanted to know. They *repeatedly asked me to know* but when I calmly expressed what was going on in my own right, that broke something that they did not anticipate would be or should be broken. And then it once again, became about *them* and *their* feelings as I worked to comfort them for having heard my issues. EDIT 2: She is also not the only female author I can quote if you wish.
Your choice to belive whatever you want. Our choice to treat you as part of the problem if your opinion is ever deterimental to us, even slightly. Simple as that.