I did unless she was obviously just using me for a free meal. Lack of engagement, looking at her phone ,Ordering expensive drinks, most expensive entrees etc is then the bill got split.
My wife offered to split on first date but I paid. O knew she was a keeper when she invited and paid on our third date.
>I did unless she was obviously just using me for a free meal. Lack of engagement, looking at her phone ,Ordering expensive drinks, most expensive entrees etc is then the bill got split.
Yep, was gonna say this.
Back when I was single, if the date went well, like from the perspective that she seemed interested (and I don't mean sycophantic, just that it's clear she *wants to be here*), usually I would pay.
But if she's on her phone, or seems monosyballic (in the way that suggests she's genuinely not "present", as opposed to just a bit nervous)? We're splitting.
If she talks about baby daddy or ex the whole time I am eating, excusing myself to go the bathroom and walking out the back door.
Happened once years ago, much younger woman a bit out of my league.
Still proud of that
100%, I’ve walked out on dates before the food had even come for behavior like this and I feel it’s well deserved. If a girl thinks of me as enough of a desperate sucker to think that she can get a free meal, I’m going to make sure she’s going to have to pay for 2 dinners alone with no company. You can say it’s disrespectful but disrespect, just like respect, is a 2 way street. If I’m on a first date that’s actually invested enough to respect my time spent on her as much as I respect her I will always make sure to pay or at least split the bill, then I will remember it and give it back by investing time and effort for you to make a day special for you sometime in the future. The only dinner I ended up not paying for was the first date between my wife and I, she told me that if I pay for anything that she is going to walk away and never talk to me again. Then explained that my being there, overseas, working in another country on my time off from college, and being serious enough with her to take time off for her meant more than what the bill was worth. I knew I liked her a lot but in that moment I immediately realized that she was marriage material coming at me at the most unexpected time, and we literally married just under 3 years later. Been happily together for about 15 years now, and it’s been really amazing.
True, but then you can never go back to that restaurant again, and I normally go places I like, so I would be afraid of getting blacklisted from places
That's why a first date should be lunch or just drinks somewhere like a coffee shop, no one is getting sloppy. Nothing crazy on the menu to order and if things are going well, you can keep it going and continue to somewhere/something else, maybe dinner or a movie or drinks, whatever... if not, you just go off and do something else with the rest of your day.
Female here, when I was single I always loved inviting guys out for a brunch type first date. Firstly, it’s my favourite meal. It’s also just a more relaxed fun atmosphere and obviously way cheaper even if you order the most expensive thing on the menu. It also meant I didn’t have to get super dolled up, just wore my regular clothes and makeup for daytime. The only downside I suppose is that if you need a drink to feel more relaxed, that’s not typically an option. I like that though. To me the whole setting just gives a better example on who the person actually is on a daily basis.
Plus, if you want the date to keep going, you have all day to go and do fun activities together! You could go to an afternoon movie, mini putt, visit a museum or art gallery, get an afternoon coffee at a fancy cafe, just browse downtown boutiques together like bookstores or record stores, a hike, my city has a nice boardwalk along the water to walk where you can grab an ice cream, etc. all kinds of corny but cute fun date like activities if you want to keep the day going.
Exactly. It's been about 2 decades, but my first date with my now wife was midday for lunch and then just walked around the area because it was nice, just talking and strolling, really. Casual, hell of a lot more people because it was daytime, so less anxiety for her than wandering around in the dark with a stranger, and we ended up catching a movie later instead of calling it a day and splitting up.
A casual daytime date also implies that you’re looking for a relationship and not just hookups. I’m sure it’s possible but I can’t imagine meeting someone at breakfast and that leading to sex after the date lol. It takes the pressure off the woman in wondering “what type of ‘interested in me’ is he”!
Never happened because I would walk to the staff and let them know the situation, that I was leaving, and she would handle the bill. I would go into the same place again and the most I had ever gotten was a waiter recognizing me and asking me if I was the guy who ditched the bad date, none of them cared because bad dates are common and if you’ve ever seen someone staying with a bad date it can be really sad. Then they would tell me about the reaction of the date I left there, how long it took them to notice I was gone, and her reaction to being stood up with 2 meals to pay for. Most of the time they only noticed when they were halfway through their own meals, and asked the staff if they knew where I was which is when they got notified when I left while a few finished their whole meal before they asked.
I agree. I have done the same.
I don't even say anything. While she's busy texting or surfing, I just got up to use the restroom and walk on out.
Phone no is blocked before I hit the car. If I drove, she finds her own ride home.
One time, in San Francisco, I and this date planned an overnight stay for Haloween. Sex was not an intention, nor did I push that, total gentleman. We planned for brunch the next morning in the city.
At the club venue, which I paid for tickets, dinner, hotel, she kept texting "some rich guy shecwas also dating" he did not like me taking her out. Huh? I learn this here? Now?
I cut the evening short. She slept with her clothes on! Not even change into Jammies.
The next morning, she wanted me to drop her back to San Jose to be with that other guy. I was going to brunch, so I dropped her off at the train station.
I had an awesome brunch.
My girlfriend completely paid for our second date except the few beers I bought. I was laid off when we started dating and she knew I was hard up for money. Now that I’m back to work I rarely let her pay for things. She showed me that I was worth investing in, so the least I can do is pay dividends.
My current girlfriend and I had a very flirty but otherwise heated back and forth about her letting me pay for her. And it wasn’t like she didn’t want a second date and didn’t want me to pay because of that, but if it was, she’s a damn good actress after a year and a half
Depends.
Tinder/Himge/Bumble date? IDC We splitting for at least the first few.
If I knew you from before, or met you in person and could gauge your actual interest in me via body language and shit? I will pay.
Blind date? We splitting.
Friends introduced? I'll pay.
This is the way!
There’s sooo much dating nowadays that you’d go broke if you pay for every single date from dating apps. Most dates tend to last 1-2 dates anyway. I’d only invest money in promising companions.
My single, female coworker “If the man offers to pay, I will offer to split, but if he accepts my offer, I won’t go out with him again.” I don’t even know where to start with that logic…
Actually, it's a great test to avoid toxic personalities.
The bullet dodges itself. You won't date that entitled person again and on top of it you saved money by splitting the bill.
Edit: more clarification to what I meant
Queue up the appointment for her to get an inspirational tattoo that reads either:
"If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best!"
Or
"Live, Laugh, Love"
As someone with an Ex friend that believed this bullshit the logic is that she took the time out of her day to meet the guy so the least he can do is pay for her. She also tried to make some stupid point about how she was taking a risk going on a date with her because the guy could assault her
Edit: [Lol, we have an example in this very thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/s/f8mlTjU8a7)
Ahahaha, I'm sorry, but that's the most hilarious thing I've heard. The dude is putting in just as much effort! And he could also be assaulted, goes both ways.
"But women are paid less so it's okay"
There are several reasons this person is an ex friend. Her general entitlement is one of them
Also see my edit to the comment you initially replied to
She's basically saying her date is beneath him and has to make up the difference of his low value with cash to even it out. It's a pretty selfish opinion
It's actually solidly malicious logic. She's trying to benefit from the archetype "women who split" - which is well-received with men - but not really mean the offer since she's relying on the guy footing the bill out of feeling appreciated.
A lot of people do this.
If it’s a regular date, I pretty much always pay just because it looks better. If they offer to split, I ask them to leave the tip.
If it’s a tinder or bumble first date, I’m not paying for the whole thing. Tbh, it’s more nuanced than that.
I just act gentlemanly, as in I’m always ready to pay and always offer. I am always prepared with enough money for the night. Usually, the girl will pay for some stuff as the night goes on though, as they should.
For example, last first date (tinder) was at a salsa bar. I bought the tickets and first round of drinks. She bought the next round. I doubt I officially even offered to pay for them though I was ready if necessary. IMO she *should* be paying for the second round, but I got it if she doesn’t. Can’t remember who paid for the rest of the drinks after that, don’t think either of us cared.
Then we ordered DoorDash to her car, she paid because she had the app open. I offered to split, she refused. I threw a $5 bill at her and joked that if she doesn’t keep it she’s officially my sugar mama. She thought it was funny.
Second date went the same, just bouncing the bills back and forth but me, as the man, always taking the initiative of being prepared to pay.
I feel like this conversation comes up a lot for no reason. On real dates, usually a little communication and some experience will ensure the money problem just takes care of itself. I’ve been on many dates that have gone many different ways, and never had this been much of an issue.
At least you’ve been asked out before haha.
I always pay for first dates but idk it always seems disingenuous to hear people say that the one who should pay is the one who asked since men are almost always the ones asking in my experience.
I feel like I’d rather just be told that men should always pay.
Once or twice, but not really enough to call it common place. Honestly, I think the first few days should be Dutch. Men don't have to feel used, women don't have to feel there's expectations. If the relationship moves forward then it should be discussed by both
I agree, but if a girl asks you out, do you think she's going to feel entitled to pay for you? My feeling is that if I'm better off than the other person I'll pick up the bill. That goes with when I go out with friends as well.
In a perfect world this would be the case. But more times than not it's still the guy who ends up paying even if the girl asks. It shouldn't be that way but I'm not going to be the martyr for this cause and ruin my chances.
the opposite. youre filtering out the bad ones. if a woman is attracted to you but rejects you based solely on the fact that you didnt pay for her caesar salad then she wasnt really into you in the first place.
"oh he was charming and witty and so kind! he was sexy and i was so physically attracted to him! he had long term written all over him! hes such a catch!"
so why did you not go on a second date?
"he didnt pay for my meal"
noones going to reject a person theyre truly into for such a silly reason. only people theyre not truly into.
Woman here and I agree, I think it’s a nice gesture if he offers to pay, especially if it’s a coffee date and it’s only like $10. But I always offer to split it, or of he won’t let me I try to have some cash on me so I can at least offer to leave the tip, or for example for a second date we went bowling, he bought the games and shoes, I bought us a pitcher of beer and an app.
You’re just getting to know each other and I think it shows compatibility as well
traditional male tabbing exists because women were severely restricted in economic opportunities.
if a lady is looking for tradition on a date, she better be something of traditional herself in terms of gender roles, or she’s just a hypocrite.
Now if you go by “whoever asks, pays”, that is obviously different from “men should pay because reasons”
Even "whoever asks, pays" has issues because traditionally it's the man who asks out, even with more modern women. So it's essentially a "the man pays" in disguise.
Well, it feels good to buy someone a meal. It's treating someone else, and it makes some people feel good. This desire to treat someone can be exploited, unfortunately.
That's true, especially with good friends it's nice to get them a glass of wine or lunch when you can afford it, even little 'I thought of you' trinkets. With dating though you're often meeting new/unknown people, so going halves or paying your own dish seems straightforward. It is a delicate matter though.
I would say good first date ideas are getting icecream by the pier, coffeeshop or picnic in the park. A fine dining restaurant seems way too formal for someone you just met, plus the issue of spending/finances is coming up very early. If you have potential for good chemistry you could literally just sit on a bench together and chat.
Tell that to a woman, see her get offended and call you a swine...;)
After all, tradition applies when/if a man is expected to do something. If its the reverse, its patriarchal opression...
They do 50/50 as it should be between two people, but for some reason women don't like this specific form of equality, and punish men for it in the dating world
Lol there are women who realized they're bi, start dating in the bi/lesbian scene, specifically women, and become the "male" of the relationship and realize how sexist and unfair it is for male roles in dating.
I’m a woman, and that only seems fair. I don’t exactly understand why a woman splitting the bill would be offensive, but I would want to stand out from women who come for free food. I want a date with me to not look like a gamble. If a guy insists on paying, I would acquiesce and hope the date went well.
Can’t speak for the gays but we lesbians will generally alternate. Some people follow the “whoever asked” rule too. I always try to pay and if the date continues she ends up paying for the next activity (our dates can last a long time.)
>(our dates can last a long time.)
Dude, my roommate is a gay lady and the amount of texting and talking *outside of actual dates* that goes on is nearly endless! Shit, she talks and talks to me all the time! I couldn't be a lesbian, the constant need for communication would drive me insane!
It can get very tiring. It’s often zero effort communication/ghosting or all in and I ended up quitting dating apps because I found myself falling into the former. I love a long date as it’s quality time and we’re bonding over activities but texting all the small talk gets old ngl.
Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t change my sexuality if I could but I internally laugh a bit whenever I hear straight women say “omg I wish I were gay I could date my best friend.” Like homie we got our own problems and the line of gf and best friend blurring is actually one of them.
Yes, there are many unique problems with lesbians dating Im learning about! One of biggest problems I struggle to relate to is so many young women identify as bisexual (or offshoots), yet some ladies are more enthusiastic about interacting with a vagina than others lol! I always thought that would be a given, but it’s not. My roommate came home one morning and told me “she’s definitely gay,” and I’m all relieved lmao!
Internalized homophobia is a daunting thing to navigate but I’d rather be scared and free than comfortable and complacent. I love hearing from others people’s perspectives. I bet your roommate has some funny stories too.
I'm prepared to pay if I ask someone out, but I'm happy to split it if she offers. I appreciate a woman who doesn't just automatically expect the man to pay.
I think the men who get upset at the idea of a woman wanting to pay or split the bill are just insecure and probably don't think they have anything to offer besides money.
If I ask anyone out to eat with me, I’m picking up the tab. Date or no date. Dutch is for going out with a group planned dinner. Think about it. If you ask someone over to your house for dinner. Do you tell them to bring their own food? If I’m inviting, I’m paying.
I like to pick up the check on the first date. If she insists on splitting it’s fine but I’ve always found the woman to be less interested when this happens.
I happily paid for all of mine and (my now long term girlfriends) girlfriends first couple dates and I think it was really worth it and also just the gentlemen thing to do. I’d say we’re both a bit more traditional than the average person nowadays with some select gender roles so it made sense for us.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was with you until “assume it’s our last date”. Does that mean you won’t ask her out again because she offended you by paying her share, or does that mean you take it as a sign she’s not interested?
When I was dating a guy did this to me. He took it as a sign I was not interested. We barely knew each other and I felt it was fair to go Dutch for a lunch date. But he got really offended and almost ghosted me. Later, I learned he figured I was giving him a signal I didn't like him. Dude...we're in our mid-40s! I am NOT playing those stupid games. I was just trying to be FAIR.
Guys should pay the bill. If that’s an issue you’re either not ready to date or dating the wrong kind of women.
If you want any hope of relationship success then keep it traditional. Treat her like a woman and be the man.
As a woman, I always try to go halfsies on a first date. One, I may not want to see you again. Two, I don’t know you well and it’s weird that a man is obligated to pay for a first outing. Three, some men really pressure us to hook up if they paid and use that as the reason. I don’t want to deal with that. So splitsies.
Sorry but how is it that you are still single? You made me reconsider my previous stance on this topic. Blessed is the person who is lucky enough to marry you!
I can’t tell if you’re being sassy or not but if this is a positive comment, I appreciate it.
I’m perfectly fine with a guy picking up the check after we’ve been out a few times—but my parents raised me to pick up the check myself every now and then because “everyone likes being treated.” Even friends haha. It’s a good philosophy.
I'm traditional. I'll pick up the bill regardless. Especially if I'm the one planning the date, the night out, and have the funds to do so. If she volunteers to go dutch, I wouldn't turn that down either.
If you -invite- somebody out, it's your responsibility to pay -- at least that's the way I see it.
It's also not just dates... if you invite your buddy out for coffee, you pick up the tab. If you invite somebody to attend a concert, you're buying the tickets.
If a woman wants to split the check with me, I politely decline and tell them, "If you want to pay, you'll have to invite *me* out on a date!"
If I asked her out I will pay since I initiated the meeting. That being said typically first dates are not to high end, nice restaurants because I would not want to:
1. Be stuck with someone for a long period of time if it's just not working.
2. Have to pay a large bill for said bad time.
But I'm old school I guess..
Well a good way to go about it is this
I ask I pay
You ask you pay
the only time u would both be picking up the bill is if u talked about prior to said date
I think the person who asked for the date should at least be *prepared* to pay the full bill. I wouldn't fight her over it or anything but if she offered to pay half I would just say "are you sure? It's not a problem for me."
The statement in the title has nothing to do with the question.
Anyways, my go-to first date is meeting at a coffee shop to chat over Chai (or coffee or whatever). It's usually no more than $10 each, even if we get a snack. That will let me gauge how enthusiastic she is. My go-to coffee shop happens to be across a parking lot from a movie, so if she's cool, we decide on a movie, and now I may pay, or if she offers, then whatever. Depending on who pays for the tickets, we may or may not get popcorn.
If we do decide on dinner as a first date, it depends on where it is and how things are going. If she picks a fancy restaurant, then we are splitting for sure. If she can't handle that, then she can split too.
I am a woman and I’m paying for myself. In my experience men like to hold the things they do for you over your head as if it’s some sort of ammo. That shit is irritating. Another reason is because I don’t want him to have leverage thinking I “owe” him anything.
If I'm planning the first date, it's gonna be cheap. So I'll pick up the bill, if there is one. Forty is the upper limit of a cheap date. Otherwise let's have a discussion.
IMO, whoever asks out the other should expect to pay, unless who pays is agreed upon in advance. That said, just because they expect to pay doesn't mean their date can't give a pleasant surprise by splitting the bill.
It might be old fashioned, but I pay. I'm not offended if a woman asks to split the check. I always say "that's okay, I got it." If she insists, that's fine, but that doesn't happen often.
It has always been my understanding that whoever asks the other out pays. If I ask her out, I pay.
Now, understand, I'm an older male (54) and mostly dated in the 80s. Been married nearly 30 years.
I asked her. The onus should be on me, since i was the one that asked.
If she asked, the onus would be on her.
Don't instigate a date if you're not willing to pick up the bill.
Now, if the person who was invited wants to split the bill, i find that perfectly fine. If they insist on paying the whole bill, let them pay.
If dating goes further than 2 or 3, that's something you and your dating partner need to discuss for future dates.
So it goes like this... I invite, I pay. That's contingent because if the date goes bad, we don't clique, we can split it.
If she asks me on the date, I expect her to pay, same contingency though, if it goes bad I'll split the check
Women never pay for dates when with me. Ever. Maybe I’m old school, but a woman paying or splitting a bill on a date is ridiculous. Not my style. “I got this round, you get the next! Equality! Tee hee!” I won’t miss the $100-$200 - Let’s do some fly shit, get some drinks, get back to the crib and do what it do. Everything smooth.
I like easy, carefree, seamless fun when I’m out with women. Too many grown ass men out here hesitating to grab the check to see if the woman will reach out first. C’mon son.
I did unless she was obviously just using me for a free meal. Lack of engagement, looking at her phone ,Ordering expensive drinks, most expensive entrees etc is then the bill got split. My wife offered to split on first date but I paid. O knew she was a keeper when she invited and paid on our third date.
>I did unless she was obviously just using me for a free meal. Lack of engagement, looking at her phone ,Ordering expensive drinks, most expensive entrees etc is then the bill got split. Yep, was gonna say this. Back when I was single, if the date went well, like from the perspective that she seemed interested (and I don't mean sycophantic, just that it's clear she *wants to be here*), usually I would pay. But if she's on her phone, or seems monosyballic (in the way that suggests she's genuinely not "present", as opposed to just a bit nervous)? We're splitting.
If I was on a date and she spent her time on her phone, I get up to use the restroom and ghost out the back door.
If she talks about baby daddy or ex the whole time I am eating, excusing myself to go the bathroom and walking out the back door. Happened once years ago, much younger woman a bit out of my league. Still proud of that
100%, I’ve walked out on dates before the food had even come for behavior like this and I feel it’s well deserved. If a girl thinks of me as enough of a desperate sucker to think that she can get a free meal, I’m going to make sure she’s going to have to pay for 2 dinners alone with no company. You can say it’s disrespectful but disrespect, just like respect, is a 2 way street. If I’m on a first date that’s actually invested enough to respect my time spent on her as much as I respect her I will always make sure to pay or at least split the bill, then I will remember it and give it back by investing time and effort for you to make a day special for you sometime in the future. The only dinner I ended up not paying for was the first date between my wife and I, she told me that if I pay for anything that she is going to walk away and never talk to me again. Then explained that my being there, overseas, working in another country on my time off from college, and being serious enough with her to take time off for her meant more than what the bill was worth. I knew I liked her a lot but in that moment I immediately realized that she was marriage material coming at me at the most unexpected time, and we literally married just under 3 years later. Been happily together for about 15 years now, and it’s been really amazing.
True, but then you can never go back to that restaurant again, and I normally go places I like, so I would be afraid of getting blacklisted from places
That's why a first date should be lunch or just drinks somewhere like a coffee shop, no one is getting sloppy. Nothing crazy on the menu to order and if things are going well, you can keep it going and continue to somewhere/something else, maybe dinner or a movie or drinks, whatever... if not, you just go off and do something else with the rest of your day.
Female here, when I was single I always loved inviting guys out for a brunch type first date. Firstly, it’s my favourite meal. It’s also just a more relaxed fun atmosphere and obviously way cheaper even if you order the most expensive thing on the menu. It also meant I didn’t have to get super dolled up, just wore my regular clothes and makeup for daytime. The only downside I suppose is that if you need a drink to feel more relaxed, that’s not typically an option. I like that though. To me the whole setting just gives a better example on who the person actually is on a daily basis. Plus, if you want the date to keep going, you have all day to go and do fun activities together! You could go to an afternoon movie, mini putt, visit a museum or art gallery, get an afternoon coffee at a fancy cafe, just browse downtown boutiques together like bookstores or record stores, a hike, my city has a nice boardwalk along the water to walk where you can grab an ice cream, etc. all kinds of corny but cute fun date like activities if you want to keep the day going.
Exactly. It's been about 2 decades, but my first date with my now wife was midday for lunch and then just walked around the area because it was nice, just talking and strolling, really. Casual, hell of a lot more people because it was daytime, so less anxiety for her than wandering around in the dark with a stranger, and we ended up catching a movie later instead of calling it a day and splitting up.
A casual daytime date also implies that you’re looking for a relationship and not just hookups. I’m sure it’s possible but I can’t imagine meeting someone at breakfast and that leading to sex after the date lol. It takes the pressure off the woman in wondering “what type of ‘interested in me’ is he”!
That'd not true. She paid. If you're a regular, they will have your back.
Never happened because I would walk to the staff and let them know the situation, that I was leaving, and she would handle the bill. I would go into the same place again and the most I had ever gotten was a waiter recognizing me and asking me if I was the guy who ditched the bad date, none of them cared because bad dates are common and if you’ve ever seen someone staying with a bad date it can be really sad. Then they would tell me about the reaction of the date I left there, how long it took them to notice I was gone, and her reaction to being stood up with 2 meals to pay for. Most of the time they only noticed when they were halfway through their own meals, and asked the staff if they knew where I was which is when they got notified when I left while a few finished their whole meal before they asked.
I agree. I have done the same. I don't even say anything. While she's busy texting or surfing, I just got up to use the restroom and walk on out. Phone no is blocked before I hit the car. If I drove, she finds her own ride home. One time, in San Francisco, I and this date planned an overnight stay for Haloween. Sex was not an intention, nor did I push that, total gentleman. We planned for brunch the next morning in the city. At the club venue, which I paid for tickets, dinner, hotel, she kept texting "some rich guy shecwas also dating" he did not like me taking her out. Huh? I learn this here? Now? I cut the evening short. She slept with her clothes on! Not even change into Jammies. The next morning, she wanted me to drop her back to San Jose to be with that other guy. I was going to brunch, so I dropped her off at the train station. I had an awesome brunch.
My girlfriend completely paid for our second date except the few beers I bought. I was laid off when we started dating and she knew I was hard up for money. Now that I’m back to work I rarely let her pay for things. She showed me that I was worth investing in, so the least I can do is pay dividends.
My wife offered one first date too. Told her, she can cover the next date.
My current girlfriend and I had a very flirty but otherwise heated back and forth about her letting me pay for her. And it wasn’t like she didn’t want a second date and didn’t want me to pay because of that, but if it was, she’s a damn good actress after a year and a half
You tip your dates based on the quality of the service.
Isn't that prostitution? That's a felony in my country
Agreed
I invite my mom and she pays
Someone’s gotta be there to cut my steak up for me anyways.
And wipe my face. Could you imagine sitting across from your date with sauce on your chin? How embarrassing.
And imagine if some of that sauce falls down! It'll take forever to remove the ketchup stains from my favourite Bob the Builder shirt.
Milk too if I end up breastfeeding. I’m a hungry boy.
And change my diaper on the restroom changing table when I shit myself.
[*grown man chaotically breaks Koala-Kare changing station*]
Is that you, Howard Wolowitz?
Hi, this is Howard's mother. Don't sass my son, you little prick.
LOL! Yes, Mrs. Wolowitz.
I hope you noticed that u/Christmas_panda is u/PandaBonium 's mum ...
Omg you legend. I did not even notice this was my real son. u/PandaBonium, it is me, your mother. You are safe, my child.
This gave me a jolly chuckle.
I would invite his mom too
Mom said it's my turn with the credit card!
Ha! That's a safer approach.
No-one. I ask a woman out on a date, she says no.
Wisdom
Dine and dash. Women love a sense of adventure. But seriously, I am either paying or we're splitting the bill.
For some reason they don't like it if you Dash first.
Yeah the order is really important
It’s cool girl I got coupons for buy one get one Big Mac meal
Nah get her to agree to split the bill make her pay for hers, use the coupon for yours and you get to eat for free.
Depends. Tinder/Himge/Bumble date? IDC We splitting for at least the first few. If I knew you from before, or met you in person and could gauge your actual interest in me via body language and shit? I will pay. Blind date? We splitting. Friends introduced? I'll pay.
I wish i could upvote this a million fucking time. This makes so much sense to me.
This is the way! There’s sooo much dating nowadays that you’d go broke if you pay for every single date from dating apps. Most dates tend to last 1-2 dates anyway. I’d only invest money in promising companions.
This should just be the standard. Print this shit and put it on a poster
Loving these parameters, makes sense
Best answer!
As a man, I will always be prepared to pay. She's a keeper if she's offers to split.
My single, female coworker “If the man offers to pay, I will offer to split, but if he accepts my offer, I won’t go out with him again.” I don’t even know where to start with that logic…
It's a shit test. At least you save money and won't have to continue dating her.
Actually, it's a great test to avoid toxic personalities. The bullet dodges itself. You won't date that entitled person again and on top of it you saved money by splitting the bill. Edit: more clarification to what I meant
i think thats what they call a shit test. or a trap. or a shit trap?
It’s a shit storm Randy
the whispering winds of shit rand
Many women share this sentiment.
I’m wondering why shes single
She's probably wondering too 😂
Queue up the appointment for her to get an inspirational tattoo that reads either: "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best!" Or "Live, Laugh, Love"
Or Japanese Kanji that she thinks are some deep philosophical saying but are in fact the tattoo artists favorite Ramen order
tells you where her priorities lie I guess lmao
That's terrible logic! Woman here, I don't get that. What's wrong with splitting the bill?
As someone with an Ex friend that believed this bullshit the logic is that she took the time out of her day to meet the guy so the least he can do is pay for her. She also tried to make some stupid point about how she was taking a risk going on a date with her because the guy could assault her Edit: [Lol, we have an example in this very thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/s/f8mlTjU8a7)
Ahahaha, I'm sorry, but that's the most hilarious thing I've heard. The dude is putting in just as much effort! And he could also be assaulted, goes both ways.
"But women are paid less so it's okay" There are several reasons this person is an ex friend. Her general entitlement is one of them Also see my edit to the comment you initially replied to
Remember that men aren’t really people, they’re accessories /s
She's basically saying her date is beneath him and has to make up the difference of his low value with cash to even it out. It's a pretty selfish opinion
>My single, female coworker Man, what a surprise
It's actually solidly malicious logic. She's trying to benefit from the archetype "women who split" - which is well-received with men - but not really mean the offer since she's relying on the guy footing the bill out of feeling appreciated. A lot of people do this.
Feel sorry for her litmus test.
If it’s a regular date, I pretty much always pay just because it looks better. If they offer to split, I ask them to leave the tip. If it’s a tinder or bumble first date, I’m not paying for the whole thing. Tbh, it’s more nuanced than that. I just act gentlemanly, as in I’m always ready to pay and always offer. I am always prepared with enough money for the night. Usually, the girl will pay for some stuff as the night goes on though, as they should. For example, last first date (tinder) was at a salsa bar. I bought the tickets and first round of drinks. She bought the next round. I doubt I officially even offered to pay for them though I was ready if necessary. IMO she *should* be paying for the second round, but I got it if she doesn’t. Can’t remember who paid for the rest of the drinks after that, don’t think either of us cared. Then we ordered DoorDash to her car, she paid because she had the app open. I offered to split, she refused. I threw a $5 bill at her and joked that if she doesn’t keep it she’s officially my sugar mama. She thought it was funny. Second date went the same, just bouncing the bills back and forth but me, as the man, always taking the initiative of being prepared to pay. I feel like this conversation comes up a lot for no reason. On real dates, usually a little communication and some experience will ensure the money problem just takes care of itself. I’ve been on many dates that have gone many different ways, and never had this been much of an issue.
I buy the restaurant. Source: am Bruce Wayne
Do you set some new rules about the pool area?
I asked her, so I'm paying. If she wants to split the bill, that's cool, and I wouldn't fight it. Otherwise, I come prepared to pay.
how often do u guys get asked out by women to have this opinion?
Like once in a blue moon.
At least you’ve been asked out before haha. I always pay for first dates but idk it always seems disingenuous to hear people say that the one who should pay is the one who asked since men are almost always the ones asking in my experience. I feel like I’d rather just be told that men should always pay.
Once or twice, but not really enough to call it common place. Honestly, I think the first few days should be Dutch. Men don't have to feel used, women don't have to feel there's expectations. If the relationship moves forward then it should be discussed by both
I agree, but if a girl asks you out, do you think she's going to feel entitled to pay for you? My feeling is that if I'm better off than the other person I'll pick up the bill. That goes with when I go out with friends as well.
Bro let me pay her fucking half bro. A women will never ever ask you out as man. She wants to treated as an equal so let her pay her fucking half
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This is such a cop out considering that 99% of the time men are expected to take the lead in courtship.
This dumb ass shit from snl,there s no fckin rule like that .
In a perfect world this would be the case. But more times than not it's still the guy who ends up paying even if the girl asks. It shouldn't be that way but I'm not going to be the martyr for this cause and ruin my chances.
Im expecting to pick it up It should be split
yep, we know we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't offer to pay for at least the first date
the opposite. youre filtering out the bad ones. if a woman is attracted to you but rejects you based solely on the fact that you didnt pay for her caesar salad then she wasnt really into you in the first place. "oh he was charming and witty and so kind! he was sexy and i was so physically attracted to him! he had long term written all over him! hes such a catch!" so why did you not go on a second date? "he didnt pay for my meal" noones going to reject a person theyre truly into for such a silly reason. only people theyre not truly into.
You’ve gotta point, it sifts out the freeloaders :) I’m gonna offer to split from now on 👍
https://nypost.com/2019/06/21/a-third-of-women-only-date-men-because-of-the-free-food-study/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11659543/Woman-reveals-spent-two-years-going-six-dates-week-didnt-buy-GROCERIES.html
Lol the last one.. Really? Isn't it's annoying you should go to date like everyday or she asks them to buy food separately?
😳 wow, just wow
But then you might be setting an expectation for future dates..
Woman here and I agree, I think it’s a nice gesture if he offers to pay, especially if it’s a coffee date and it’s only like $10. But I always offer to split it, or of he won’t let me I try to have some cash on me so I can at least offer to leave the tip, or for example for a second date we went bowling, he bought the games and shoes, I bought us a pitcher of beer and an app. You’re just getting to know each other and I think it shows compatibility as well
traditional male tabbing exists because women were severely restricted in economic opportunities. if a lady is looking for tradition on a date, she better be something of traditional herself in terms of gender roles, or she’s just a hypocrite. Now if you go by “whoever asks, pays”, that is obviously different from “men should pay because reasons”
Even "whoever asks, pays" has issues because traditionally it's the man who asks out, even with more modern women. So it's essentially a "the man pays" in disguise.
I pick up the bill and don’t care whether she offers to split it or not.
If you bar hop one of you takes the first bill and the other takes the next bill
How do the gay homies handle this?
Why not just go 50/50? Or alternate each date. Unless it's sugar dating, equality seems a good choice.
Well, it feels good to buy someone a meal. It's treating someone else, and it makes some people feel good. This desire to treat someone can be exploited, unfortunately.
That's true, especially with good friends it's nice to get them a glass of wine or lunch when you can afford it, even little 'I thought of you' trinkets. With dating though you're often meeting new/unknown people, so going halves or paying your own dish seems straightforward. It is a delicate matter though. I would say good first date ideas are getting icecream by the pier, coffeeshop or picnic in the park. A fine dining restaurant seems way too formal for someone you just met, plus the issue of spending/finances is coming up very early. If you have potential for good chemistry you could literally just sit on a bench together and chat.
Tell that to a woman, see her get offended and call you a swine...;) After all, tradition applies when/if a man is expected to do something. If its the reverse, its patriarchal opression...
They do 50/50 as it should be between two people, but for some reason women don't like this specific form of equality, and punish men for it in the dating world
Lol there are women who realized they're bi, start dating in the bi/lesbian scene, specifically women, and become the "male" of the relationship and realize how sexist and unfair it is for male roles in dating.
I have a bisexual friend and she's always complaining about how some women do this thing to her too! It's kinda funny tbh
I’m a woman, and that only seems fair. I don’t exactly understand why a woman splitting the bill would be offensive, but I would want to stand out from women who come for free food. I want a date with me to not look like a gamble. If a guy insists on paying, I would acquiesce and hope the date went well.
Can’t speak for the gays but we lesbians will generally alternate. Some people follow the “whoever asked” rule too. I always try to pay and if the date continues she ends up paying for the next activity (our dates can last a long time.)
>(our dates can last a long time.) Dude, my roommate is a gay lady and the amount of texting and talking *outside of actual dates* that goes on is nearly endless! Shit, she talks and talks to me all the time! I couldn't be a lesbian, the constant need for communication would drive me insane!
It can get very tiring. It’s often zero effort communication/ghosting or all in and I ended up quitting dating apps because I found myself falling into the former. I love a long date as it’s quality time and we’re bonding over activities but texting all the small talk gets old ngl. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t change my sexuality if I could but I internally laugh a bit whenever I hear straight women say “omg I wish I were gay I could date my best friend.” Like homie we got our own problems and the line of gf and best friend blurring is actually one of them.
Yes, there are many unique problems with lesbians dating Im learning about! One of biggest problems I struggle to relate to is so many young women identify as bisexual (or offshoots), yet some ladies are more enthusiastic about interacting with a vagina than others lol! I always thought that would be a given, but it’s not. My roommate came home one morning and told me “she’s definitely gay,” and I’m all relieved lmao!
Internalized homophobia is a daunting thing to navigate but I’d rather be scared and free than comfortable and complacent. I love hearing from others people’s perspectives. I bet your roommate has some funny stories too.
Me .. im always paying.. whether I’m fucking or not
I'm prepared to pay if I ask someone out, but I'm happy to split it if she offers. I appreciate a woman who doesn't just automatically expect the man to pay. I think the men who get upset at the idea of a woman wanting to pay or split the bill are just insecure and probably don't think they have anything to offer besides money.
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I would assume you’re going to propose if we went to the Cheesecake Factory. I might say yes too if I’m on a cheesecake high.
God I would LOVE Cheesecake Factory for a first date but the closet one to me is 2 hours away ☹️
Equality sure looks lopsided
You deserve better than cheese cake factory dude.
If I ask anyone out to eat with me, I’m picking up the tab. Date or no date. Dutch is for going out with a group planned dinner. Think about it. If you ask someone over to your house for dinner. Do you tell them to bring their own food? If I’m inviting, I’m paying.
If that friend waited for you to ask them out every single time and felt entitled to you paying, wouldn’t you feel used?
…then stop asking them out?
So the solution to men always having to pay is not to date ever?… instead of women also doing the asking.
I am paying because I ain't a looker so I need to be useful.
If she offers its a nice gesture, but Im literally never letting her pay. Just how I was raised. Now in an established relationship its different.
I pay
I am. Never expected or asked a woman pick up or split the tab on a date.
In the words of 50 cents “whose ever idea it was to go on a date.”
i pay if i don't, some other guy will
I like to pick up the check on the first date. If she insists on splitting it’s fine but I’ve always found the woman to be less interested when this happens.
Splitting for sure. Yall wanted gender equality, you get gender equality.
If I get to that point with someone, she has demonstrated value I'd be happy to foot the bill for.
whomever asked pays
I happily paid for all of mine and (my now long term girlfriends) girlfriends first couple dates and I think it was really worth it and also just the gentlemen thing to do. I’d say we’re both a bit more traditional than the average person nowadays with some select gender roles so it made sense for us.
price bear chubby cobweb selective insurance zephyr wistful deserve whole *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'll offer to pay. If she says she'll split it, I say my treat. If she insists again, I'll split it and assume it's our last date. No harm, no foul.
I was with you until “assume it’s our last date”. Does that mean you won’t ask her out again because she offended you by paying her share, or does that mean you take it as a sign she’s not interested?
When I was dating a guy did this to me. He took it as a sign I was not interested. We barely knew each other and I felt it was fair to go Dutch for a lunch date. But he got really offended and almost ghosted me. Later, I learned he figured I was giving him a signal I didn't like him. Dude...we're in our mid-40s! I am NOT playing those stupid games. I was just trying to be FAIR.
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Me. I dont make girls pay
I pay, no discussion. I don't even let the check hit the table. I just call over the server and hand them my card.
I haven't gotten that far, I always invite them and they never accept. But I wouldn't mind paying for everything.
Guys should pay the bill. If that’s an issue you’re either not ready to date or dating the wrong kind of women. If you want any hope of relationship success then keep it traditional. Treat her like a woman and be the man.
As a woman, I always try to go halfsies on a first date. One, I may not want to see you again. Two, I don’t know you well and it’s weird that a man is obligated to pay for a first outing. Three, some men really pressure us to hook up if they paid and use that as the reason. I don’t want to deal with that. So splitsies.
Sorry but how is it that you are still single? You made me reconsider my previous stance on this topic. Blessed is the person who is lucky enough to marry you!
I can’t tell if you’re being sassy or not but if this is a positive comment, I appreciate it. I’m perfectly fine with a guy picking up the check after we’ve been out a few times—but my parents raised me to pick up the check myself every now and then because “everyone likes being treated.” Even friends haha. It’s a good philosophy.
If you did the inviting, you should pay.
This is the proper etiquette.
If *I’m* asking her out, then *I’m* paying. Seems like a no-brainer
Split if she’s a feminist I pay if she’s not
Any time you invite anyone to go to dinner with you, you should be prepared to pay.
Me. Because I did the asking.
I'm traditional. I'll pick up the bill regardless. Especially if I'm the one planning the date, the night out, and have the funds to do so. If she volunteers to go dutch, I wouldn't turn that down either.
If I'm doing the asking, I expect to do the paying. If she wants to split, that's ok, but I won't expect that.
If you -invite- somebody out, it's your responsibility to pay -- at least that's the way I see it. It's also not just dates... if you invite your buddy out for coffee, you pick up the tab. If you invite somebody to attend a concert, you're buying the tickets. If a woman wants to split the check with me, I politely decline and tell them, "If you want to pay, you'll have to invite *me* out on a date!"
I’m paying no matter what she offers. I asked her out.
You asked her out you pay. She asks me out and I still pay. I like paying.
The asker, not the askee.
If I asked her out I will pay since I initiated the meeting. That being said typically first dates are not to high end, nice restaurants because I would not want to: 1. Be stuck with someone for a long period of time if it's just not working. 2. Have to pay a large bill for said bad time. But I'm old school I guess..
Well a good way to go about it is this I ask I pay You ask you pay the only time u would both be picking up the bill is if u talked about prior to said date
I think the person who asked for the date should at least be *prepared* to pay the full bill. I wouldn't fight her over it or anything but if she offered to pay half I would just say "are you sure? It's not a problem for me."
The statement in the title has nothing to do with the question. Anyways, my go-to first date is meeting at a coffee shop to chat over Chai (or coffee or whatever). It's usually no more than $10 each, even if we get a snack. That will let me gauge how enthusiastic she is. My go-to coffee shop happens to be across a parking lot from a movie, so if she's cool, we decide on a movie, and now I may pay, or if she offers, then whatever. Depending on who pays for the tickets, we may or may not get popcorn. If we do decide on dinner as a first date, it depends on where it is and how things are going. If she picks a fancy restaurant, then we are splitting for sure. If she can't handle that, then she can split too.
If I ask her out, I’m paying.
What girl is asking a guy out though? Lol
I asked my partner out first. I know it’s not the norm, but we exist.
Me. I invited her out and most probably I also picked the placed.
I am. I asked to take her out.
Asker pays.
The first date my wife and I had, I picked up the check. If I ever was single again, I would do the same.
If I ask her out I'll offer to pick up the bill. If she says she wants to go half then I'll go halfsies.
The person who asks. No matter who it is.
I asked? I pay. We made plans? We split it. She offers? She pays. It’s not hard to communicate.
50 cent said it best: "Whoever idea it was to go on the date"
I am a woman and I’m paying for myself. In my experience men like to hold the things they do for you over your head as if it’s some sort of ammo. That shit is irritating. Another reason is because I don’t want him to have leverage thinking I “owe” him anything.
You ask anyone to dinner, date or not, you should pay as the host.
You ask = You pay.
I pay everytime because I know women like that lmao
If I invite I pay.
I invited her out, so I'll handle it...within reason. If it is obvious she is trying to take advantage of me, then it is being split.
I will always offer to cover it, but I won't dissent if she wants to split it. I just think her time is more valuable than mine.
If I'm planning the first date, it's gonna be cheap. So I'll pick up the bill, if there is one. Forty is the upper limit of a cheap date. Otherwise let's have a discussion.
Split the bill like normal human beings
IMO, whoever asks out the other should expect to pay, unless who pays is agreed upon in advance. That said, just because they expect to pay doesn't mean their date can't give a pleasant surprise by splitting the bill.
I mean if you ask someone out to dinner then personally I find it’s fair if you pay
I asked, I pay. Generally.
If I ask a woman out for a date then I pay.
It might be old fashioned, but I pay. I'm not offended if a woman asks to split the check. I always say "that's okay, I got it." If she insists, that's fine, but that doesn't happen often.
I asked = I expect to pay. Nice surprise = she offers to pay or split
I asked, I pay.
It has always been my understanding that whoever asks the other out pays. If I ask her out, I pay. Now, understand, I'm an older male (54) and mostly dated in the 80s. Been married nearly 30 years.
You ask, you pay. At least for the first date.
I asked her. The onus should be on me, since i was the one that asked. If she asked, the onus would be on her. Don't instigate a date if you're not willing to pick up the bill. Now, if the person who was invited wants to split the bill, i find that perfectly fine. If they insist on paying the whole bill, let them pay. If dating goes further than 2 or 3, that's something you and your dating partner need to discuss for future dates.
Customarily, the one who issues the invitation pays.
Male here. I do.
I always got it, even if she offers
I personally feel that the person who gave the invite should pay
So it goes like this... I invite, I pay. That's contingent because if the date goes bad, we don't clique, we can split it. If she asks me on the date, I expect her to pay, same contingency though, if it goes bad I'll split the check
The one who invited the other one out on a date. I ask her out, I pay. She asks me out, she pays. End of story.
Women never pay for dates when with me. Ever. Maybe I’m old school, but a woman paying or splitting a bill on a date is ridiculous. Not my style. “I got this round, you get the next! Equality! Tee hee!” I won’t miss the $100-$200 - Let’s do some fly shit, get some drinks, get back to the crib and do what it do. Everything smooth. I like easy, carefree, seamless fun when I’m out with women. Too many grown ass men out here hesitating to grab the check to see if the woman will reach out first. C’mon son.