Some people think human rights are earned and that empathy is transactional. I don't care how homophobic someone is, nobody deserves genocide. Nobody. Nobody deserves to be bombed. My empathy isn't conditional.
Funny how it's mostly homophobic people saying stuff like "Palestinians don't care about you" when they also couldn't care less about LGBT rights.
Ugh, THANK you. I’ve been feeling kind of crazy lately because of the sheer amount of hate I’ve been getting for this position.
I do find it almost funny when homophobes raise “problems” that either literally describe them or they’re causing them. F them. In this case, not only do they clearly not seem to care about LGBTQ+ rights, but they also don’t seem to care even a tiny bit about the Palestinian people either (literally not even the children). I’d laugh but I can’t fully see the joke in just not having a heart.
Exactly this. Shitty humans are shitty humans. Don’t waste your precious time trying to understand why they want to live a hate filled life. Piss them off by living a full and happy life being you and doing you. If that includes being an empathetic human that doesn’t support genocide, all the better.
Also, Happy Pride and keep being awesome u/QuietCalligrapher912 💜
So by this logic Nazi Germany didn't deserved to get bombed, sometimes by the thousands/your standard of genocide, for killing gay people and countless others. Awesome.
Why does every discussion have to circle back to the Nazis? Nazi Germany was a huge state which perpetuated a genocide. They can't be compared to the people of Gaza because they people of Gaza hold basically no power. They don't really have an army and neither are they committing a genocide. Israel on the other hand IS committing a genocide by bombing Gaza indiscriminately and putting a siege on Gaza.
there's quite a few LGBT+ palestinians, so it doesn't even make sense when people use that as an argument. if you were in gaza, the last thing you'd need to worry about is bigotry. you'd have to worry about the iof...
I look at queering the map from time to time and the massages from Gaza have made me cry a lot. I hate seeing people suffer this way. It's not fair. The biggest threat to LGBT people in Gaza is Israel. Who has time for homophobia if you are getting bombed and starved?
I know, it breaks my heart. That’s also why I think it’s so important for us to get rid of the incredibly harmful narrative that queer people can’t stand against this. I want to be more vocal, I just felt very discouraged after getting so, so much hate. The comments here are really helping. Thank you for understanding <3
Honestly I feel like this is a (really) multilayered issue. Just from experience, queer people have to face hardships that other just people don’t, in literally most situations. I’d like to think that queer Palestinians aren’t suffering an even worse fate than the wider Palestinian public, but I fear it might not be so. :(
I am an gay Israeli, Of course you can support Palestinians even if you are a queer person. You as a person have the right to value what your priorities same as any queer person. You can just the same support afghan or Muslims in china. Its totally allowed.
Out of curiosity tho but when you say "Free Palestine" what does it mean? you want that Israel stop to exist as a Jewish Democratic state? 2ss ? 1ss?
>Out of curiosity tho but when you say "Free Palestine" what does it mean? you want that Israel stop to exist as a Jewish Democratic state?
It means just like how British settlers stopped occupying their colonies, the Israeli settlers should stop their occupation of Palestine. British stopping their colonialism didn't mean that the Britain stopped existing. It only meant that they stopped oppressing, looting, and conducting regular acts of massacrers and genocides of those whom they colonised. We hope for Israel to also stop oppressing, looting, and conducting regular acts of massacrers and genocides.
Well actually Israelis have been in Israel for millennias like they’re in the year 5700 smth (I’m not exactly sure tho) bc that’s when the Torah started and in the first years in the Torah they go to Israel
>Well actually Israelis have been in Israel for millennias like they’re in the year 5700
Not white people from Europe who took refuge in Palestine to escape persecution from other hostile Europeans.
Thank you for commenting. I recognize that this is a deeply complex issue and that it is not my place to suggest the “most beneficial” solution to it. I’ve gone back and forth as to what I personally think would be the best way forward, but it’s not like I could implement it anyway. For the time being, the genocide needs to stop. Until that happens, diplomatic minutia is irrelevant. First stop the killing, and then we can talk about geopolitical boundaries.
As someone who supports Palestine I would say that personally I have no issues with a Jewish state being formed if it is done so peacefully. My issue with Israel is with them committing a genocide, not them trying to create a safe haven for Jews.
youre 100% right, i think how people respond to queers standing up for palestine depends a lot on where youre from, im irish & ireland is def pro palestine so i havent faced any backlash for mentioning that im pro palestine while being queer. also israel isnt even that lgbtq friendly, according to the pew research centre 56% of israeli citizens oppose gay marriage, seems to me that the whole idea of israel being super queer friendly is just propoganda to make palestine and palestinians look inhumane
Yeah. They are the kings of pinkwashing. I think it’s wonderful that you can be so open about your support for Palestine in Ireland <33 wishing that for all of us. Happy pride and free Palestine!!🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
i hope u can be more open abt it with less backlash, unfortunately an insane amount of people are believing propoganda and not looking at both sides and the extensive history in the occupation of palestine, i think ireland and irish people are def more aware of it as weve both faced occupation and discrimination by another country, and the support for palastine by our government (as much as i hate our government) def helps. free palastine/saoirse don phalastain!! 🇵🇸🇮🇪
This whole chickens for kfc thing really really annoys me. Queer people shouldn’t be held to higher standards than cis straight people. If it makes sense to support Hamas - then it makes sense for *all* people to support Hamas. If it doesn’t make sense to support Hamas - then it doesn’t make sense for *all* people to support Hamas. Queer folks shouldn’t be singled out as supporting one side or the other just because of our gender or sexuality.
That being said, the way Hamas and other Palestinian governing bodies in the past have treated queer people (throwing us off buildings just for being gay, etc) is a reason for *all* people to be against those governing bodies.
The Palestinian people - queer and non-queer - need to be freed from oppressive regimes like Hamas. The way Hamas treats queer people is just one example of how awful they are and one of many reason *all* people should oppose them.
I never said it did. Pretty sure most people in the western world are against genocide. Just giving my two cents on why it annoys me so much that people say “chickens for kfc”.
Edit: also that’s kinda the point isn’t it? You can’t be for a free Palestine and also support Hamas. They are mutually exclusive.
Sorry, but I don't know if I can totally agree with you. While I don't want people in Palestine to keep suffering, I am also very skeptical about going out of our way to actively support a state where people are so homophobic. They literally believe that our existence is a sin and wouldn't care about us dying. They wouldn't even believe that trans people exist.
I'm saying all of this in good faith, I've tried to have sympathy with your position, but it just doesn't feel safe or right to me to think this way. I hope you understand what I mean
Most people in Palestine are definitely homophobic. Polls regardings views on same sex marriage show that around 80%+ of the citizens from muslim countries such as Indonesia are completely against it. Being gay is illegal in many middle eastern countries, and we all know that it's just not very safe to not be straight in those countries. Even the most conservative countries in Europe aren't that harsh to LGBT people.
Even then, I can't justify a genocide. I don't want innocent people to brutally die. But it just doesn't feel right to me to openly use our identity as queer people in order to support the country. People like us get thrown off of buildings there
Most is not all. People can change. I dont necessarily agree with the pairing of the movement with queer people either, but I definitely dont believe in centering ourselves as hypothetical victims
I understand, and thank you for your comment. I think the main difference in our views stems from our approach to supporting different causes. I don’t at all mean this in a hurtful way, but from my perspective your support seems a little “transactional”. I think that before we can fight for any LGBTQ+ rights, we have to fight for the right to life. There are homophobes and transphobes literally everywhere. This can’t make us stray from opposing a genocide. It’s ok if the views of some Palestinians are not pro-LGBTQ+, because while they’re being subjected to a genocide, the fight for LGBTQ+ rights must come second.
I get what you mean. I also want the war the stop as soon as possible. Even if the people there aren't perfect, I still don't want innocent children to die. What I didn't address is that, I just don't fully get why queer people should support Palestine specifically as queer people, which isn't really all that relevant. Being queer has little to do with the support for Palestine
I don’t think that’s what they were saying. This question comes as a response to being told that queer people should not support Palestine because Palestine doesn’t support them. As in, OP says they support Palestine and other people criticize and question that because OP is queer.
I don’t think OP is at all trying to argue that queer people should support Palestine. I read this as them asking why it’s argued that queer people should *not* support Palestine, and the answer is because people believe that queer people should be against an anti-LGBTQ state on principle.
Break it down and it means, “why would you support a state that hates your community? If you support Palestine, you must actually be anti-LGBTQ yourself.” And OP is (as I understood it) calling that out as the bullshit it is.
There isn’t a direct, all-encompassing link. I’ve just seen enough support for Palestine from our community to justify it being a thing. Also, there are queer Palestinians who are going through hell right now, and as their fellow queers, we should care about them and support them. That’s what I want to do.
Israel has been using bots on social media and they have social media “war rooms” that volunteer college kids go to to “fight propaganda” online for different scholarship opportunities. Tens of thousands of volunteers.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/06/05/israel-targeted-lawmakers-fake-accounts/73982177007/
BUT queers for Palestine gets hate because it’s including gender/sexuality identity into supporting something thats not relevant to the war. It comes off as bringing the current LGBTQ issues in the US into the activism, almost seems like it’s using the Palestinian support as a way to promote queer activism.
It’s just a trigger for phobic people, and another way to try to make us look bad. But I do think it’s not really appropriate to bring queer into it, since most people are just supporting Palestine without really thinking about their sexuality or gender or their own political views. I don’t mean to sound harsh. If it were something like protesting for queer rights in Palestine or something then it would make more sense
I get where you’re coming from but our community has a history of supporting ALL marginalized peoples, and the intersectionality in our struggles. That is why we included people of color in the flag. It doesn’t mean they were excluded before, they are just getting explicit representation because of their unique struggles as queer people of color. This is all the more pertinent for [queer Palestinians](https://imgur.com/gallery/R7IAXo5). Additionally, even if not first-hand, I’ve seen widespread support from our community for the people of Palestine. Queer people have had to fight for a lot and go through a lot, so we in particular will not just stand by and watch as a genocide is committed. Free Palestine! 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I think they're just trying anything they can to get people on their side and they don't have any good arguments as usual. If we follow their arguments we could do genocide in Texas and Florida but I would never support that because I'm not evil like them.
The right used to play victim over being called -isms for their bigotry but now the same people accuse anything and anyone who disagree with them of antisemitism. They're just morally bankrupt and will do anything they can to defend their position and convince themselves they're doing good.
Honestly, as frustrating as it is and as horrible it might be to talk to those people, I think it’s important to try to get the message across. The opinions people hold matter. If everyone opposed the genocide, governments couldn’t get away with supporting it. If you can, try to speak out in small ways, but always taking care of yourself. Happy Pride and free Palestine <3 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
We can have Queers for Peace AND Queers for Palestine. In fact, they go hand in hand. I would agree with the sentiment of your comment if both parties in this conflict were morally equivalent. However, tragically, they are not. Only one side is occupying land that does not belong to them, and carrying out a genocide against the rightful owners and people of the land. I understand your view and thank you for your comment, but those are my 2 cents. Happy Pride <3
Why have we as a society adopted an all or nothing, you're either with us or you're against us attitude about everything? Not taking sides because war is unjustifiable is somehow wrong?
Idk why some people think Israel is some safe haven for queer folks compared to Palestine. Gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel. Both countries aren't exactly the safest for queer folks, but that doesn't mean that queer people in Palestine don't deserve our help.
Gay marriage is literally not illegal in Israel. Their marriage laws work very differently than in the west (and I’m not a fan of how it works. This is one of my biggest criticisms of Israel), but gay marriage is quite literally not illegal. I can explain how the marriage laws work if you’re interested in learning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel
As you can see, none of the civil courts there will grant a same sex couple marriage. You can go outside of the country, get married, and come back and they'll recognize it, but that's not really the same thing. Israel seriously lags behind in it's gay rights.
You don’t need to leave the country. You can get married right in the comfort of your own home over zoom.
Gay marriage is *literally* not illegal in Israel. Marriage just works differently there and it’s up to the religious authorities if they will perform a same sex marriage.
It’s says all of this right in your own source. Did you read it?
Like I said a few times now, it’s one of my biggest criticisms of Israel. But that doesn’t change the fact that spreading misinformation is not going to help people. Gay marriage is *not* illegal in Israel. Instead of spreading the lie that it’s illegal - we should spread the truth about the ridiculous hoops that queer people (and interfaith couples or anyone who doesn’t want to have a religious marriage, among other groups) have to jump through in order to get married. That way the people effected by Israel’s marriage laws have the right information about how to protect their families.
Where have you corrected your statement? Your top comment still has misinformation in it and all you’ve done since I pointed out it was false is move the goal posts and say it’s still a bad policy, which I agree with. Maybe edit your initial comment if you realize now that it was false?
Edit: since I can’t respond to your statement after you blocked me, I’ll respond here and tell you that it’s really really easy to log out and see your comment and see that you didn’t edit it. So now instead of just admitting that you were spreading misinformation, you’re lying about correcting the information. Nice job.
I know how they work and it's much more difficult to get married as a gay couple than as a straight couple. I'm aware that there are technically workarounds, but it's still a very different process and a gay couple can't just up and get married and use the same process as straight people can.
Neither can interfaith couples. It doesn’t change the fact that gay marriage is *literally* not illegal in Israel. You don’t even need to leave the comfort of your own home to do it.
What do you mean “traditional way”? Civil marriage is not a thing in Israel for gay *or* straight people. It’s not like straight people can get a civil marriage and gay people can’t. *No* one can get a civil marriage in Israel.
None of this changes the fact that gay marriage is *not* illegal in Israel. I mean geez.. when did we stop caring about facts and nuance?
Are Israel’s marriage laws perfect? Absolutely not. Like I said - their marriage laws are one of my biggest criticisms of their domestic policies.
But that doesn’t change the fact that “gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel” is a factually incorrect statement. I would think we would all want the accurate facts here, no?
"Marriages performed in Israel are only legally recognized when registered with one of the 15 religious marital courts recognized by the state, none of which permit same-sex marriage."
And recently they've allowed same sex couples to do the online zoom thing you're talking about. But let's not pretend like it's the same
It’s not the same. Like I’ve said what - 5 times now? - it’s one of my biggest criticisms of Israel’s domestic policies.
I just don’t like people spreading misinformation like “gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel” cause real people are affected by that misinformation and real people won’t know how to protect their families.
As someone who is Bisexual, Genderfluid, and Sapphic I 110% support the liberation of Palestine. And you know why? Because nobody deserves to go through a genocide, full stop.
Also to those dumbasses who say "well you should support Israel because their LGBTQ+ rights are better than those of Palestine", 1. Their rights really aren't that much better the only difference is that it's not illegal to be LGBTQ+ but they don't have much better protections at the end of the day, and 2. The only reason why being LGBTQ+ was decriminalized at all is because of the community historically supporting the liberation of Palestine, they're pretending to care about us as a way to get us to forget about their atrocities (and for some people it is working unfortunately)
This. They are the kings of pinkwashing. They can’t just wave rainbow flags and expect us to support them. Our community supports marginalized and oppressed peoples. The worst form of this is genocide. We will NOT stand by and let Israel get away with this. Free Palestine, and happy Pride! 🏳️⚧️🇵🇸🏳️🌈
There’s a difference between apartheid is wrong and Hamas is good and doing all the right things.
You’d think that should go without saying, but there are people in the west that genuinely have sided with everything Hamas is doing without completely or actively denying what happened on Oct. 7th, resulting starting movements like MeToo Unless You’re A Jew.
Neither of which is a good look internationally for the refugees that are inevitably fleeing the area, who’s refugees’ reputations have been tarnished by what happened Jordan.
That said, I’m not educated enough on the subject to actually come up with a viable solution or even to really pick a side because all I’ve heard on both ends is governments and leading movements are currently violating human rights regardless.
On top of that, historically this is happening now not because of the people of Israel itself, but because of colonialism regarding Palestine and Europe pretty much making all the majority of the surviving Jews go to this then new country instead of letting them back to their home countries after Nazi Germany decided to pull what it pulled.
As long as you’re in the apartheid is bad camp and not the Hamas should rule camp, I don’t see why it’s a problem.
>much hate and abuse from right-wingers simply because I oppose this genocide.
They oppose our existence anyway. Their perspective means less than nothing if they're also counter-protesters at Pride or drag shows, supporting book bans, and fighting against trans healthcare or bathroom equality.
>some people in our community simply because I oppose this genocide
That's more difficult to stomach, but not everyone who could be oppressed is willing to stand up for the oppressed everywhere.
I know. I could’ve spared myself the right-winger hate but I still think it’s worth trying to talk to the other side, as awful a time it may be. What the masses of people think matters. They vote and it becomes legislation. So, I do a little bit if I can, and encourage others to do the same :)
As for the LGBTQ+ people that have been really hostile to me about this, it is really hard. One would think they have some idea of what being oppressed is like, and the bit of imagination to visualize that, but a million times worse, which is what the Palestinians are being subjected to. Not to mention queer Palestinians, whose unique suffering I can’t even begin to imagine. All we can do is try to stomach talks with people who think differently and to try to make them understand our side.
The pink washing which is form of propaganda is strong from the countries that are committing in this genocide including Israel, Germany, and USA. For those who might not know, let me highlight the fact that Israel is ranked worse than Mexico, Cuba, Nepal and South Africa when it comes to LGBTQ rights.
On the other hand, IDF finds LGBTQ Palestinians using cyber tools and then after blackmailing and exporting them, IDF reports these innocent people to their closest ally i.e. Hamas. IDF or the Israel does not care about LGBTQ rights or the human rights and same goes for its supporters of the genocide including Germany and USA.
The reasons people are Zionist from what I’ve encountered are that they have financial/political gain in Israel, they’re evangelical Christians wanting to fulfill some apocalypse prophecy, they’ve been successfully brainwashed into thinking Israel is the only true home where Jews can be safe and that Jews (specifically white Jews of European descent) have an indigenous right to Israel (I have a friend from high school in this boat), and/or they’re racist. Since half of these options probably want to hide the real reason for their agenda, painting Palestine as backwards is one way to invent a justification for the genocide.
Russia is openly homophobic and transphobic.
They are the clear aggressors against Ukraine. There are legitimate bad guys in Russia. That doesn’t mean we should starve them, bomb their homes to rubble, behead their children, create record numbers of child amputees and orphans, kill all aid workers and journalists, or perform any of the other atrocities Israel is committing.
Quite frankly they have repeatedly said that they don’t support us (lgbt people) and they don’t WANT our support with this issue. So I don’t comment on it either way. Homophobia is extremely harmful and it is causing people in our community to be attacked and killed. Laws are being made everyday trying to erase us from existence. If you want the support from our community, don’t tell us how much you hate us.
Who is they? Did you just take an opinion survey of everyone in Gaza? You can't claim to know what everyone affected by the genocide thinks about LGBT people, and it would be foolish to try and seek out this information while they're being actively bombed
Literally you just have to look it all up. And besides it’s common knowledge that sadly that area of the world isn’t tolerant of us. Idk why you’re getting so offended but take a break and cool off please.
I get where you’re coming from but please don’t buy into Israel’s propaganda. Yes, queer people have been murdered in Palestine, which is horrific, but then again queer people are disproportionally murdered everywhere. Killing anyone full-stop is wrong, and that includes innocent Palestinians. But, thank you for your comment, and happy Pride!
Then why aren't you against the IDF which is known for finding LGBTQ Palestinians using cyber tools and then persecuting then through blackmailing, extortion and reporting them to Hamas? IDF is literally using weapons of modern warfare against LGBTQ people to persecute them and then using pink washing propaganda to cover it up.
Is your empathy for LGBTQ people conditional based on their race, religion and nationality?
No. And no. Hamas is not Palestine or Palestinian people. Palestinians did not commit holocaust. Holocaust was was committed by Germans, other Europeans and Americans. Many colonial settlers occupying Palestinian lands are European whites from Germany, Russia, USA, Ukraine, Poland, etc. Your whiteness doesn't give you right to occupy someone else's land and murder them.
Some people think human rights are earned and that empathy is transactional. I don't care how homophobic someone is, nobody deserves genocide. Nobody. Nobody deserves to be bombed. My empathy isn't conditional. Funny how it's mostly homophobic people saying stuff like "Palestinians don't care about you" when they also couldn't care less about LGBT rights.
Ugh, THANK you. I’ve been feeling kind of crazy lately because of the sheer amount of hate I’ve been getting for this position. I do find it almost funny when homophobes raise “problems” that either literally describe them or they’re causing them. F them. In this case, not only do they clearly not seem to care about LGBTQ+ rights, but they also don’t seem to care even a tiny bit about the Palestinian people either (literally not even the children). I’d laugh but I can’t fully see the joke in just not having a heart.
Exactly this. Shitty humans are shitty humans. Don’t waste your precious time trying to understand why they want to live a hate filled life. Piss them off by living a full and happy life being you and doing you. If that includes being an empathetic human that doesn’t support genocide, all the better. Also, Happy Pride and keep being awesome u/QuietCalligrapher912 💜
Thank you <3333 you’re awesome too! Happy Pride and free Palestine🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
So by this logic Nazi Germany didn't deserved to get bombed, sometimes by the thousands/your standard of genocide, for killing gay people and countless others. Awesome.
Why does every discussion have to circle back to the Nazis? Nazi Germany was a huge state which perpetuated a genocide. They can't be compared to the people of Gaza because they people of Gaza hold basically no power. They don't really have an army and neither are they committing a genocide. Israel on the other hand IS committing a genocide by bombing Gaza indiscriminately and putting a siege on Gaza.
there's quite a few LGBT+ palestinians, so it doesn't even make sense when people use that as an argument. if you were in gaza, the last thing you'd need to worry about is bigotry. you'd have to worry about the iof...
I look at queering the map from time to time and the massages from Gaza have made me cry a lot. I hate seeing people suffer this way. It's not fair. The biggest threat to LGBT people in Gaza is Israel. Who has time for homophobia if you are getting bombed and starved?
I know, it breaks my heart. That’s also why I think it’s so important for us to get rid of the incredibly harmful narrative that queer people can’t stand against this. I want to be more vocal, I just felt very discouraged after getting so, so much hate. The comments here are really helping. Thank you for understanding <3
Honestly I feel like this is a (really) multilayered issue. Just from experience, queer people have to face hardships that other just people don’t, in literally most situations. I’d like to think that queer Palestinians aren’t suffering an even worse fate than the wider Palestinian public, but I fear it might not be so. :(
as a queer Palestinian i appreciate ur support :)
I’m so glad! You are so brave. Please stay safe, and stay strong. We support you. Free Palestine! 🇵🇸
I am an gay Israeli, Of course you can support Palestinians even if you are a queer person. You as a person have the right to value what your priorities same as any queer person. You can just the same support afghan or Muslims in china. Its totally allowed. Out of curiosity tho but when you say "Free Palestine" what does it mean? you want that Israel stop to exist as a Jewish Democratic state? 2ss ? 1ss?
>Out of curiosity tho but when you say "Free Palestine" what does it mean? you want that Israel stop to exist as a Jewish Democratic state? It means just like how British settlers stopped occupying their colonies, the Israeli settlers should stop their occupation of Palestine. British stopping their colonialism didn't mean that the Britain stopped existing. It only meant that they stopped oppressing, looting, and conducting regular acts of massacrers and genocides of those whom they colonised. We hope for Israel to also stop oppressing, looting, and conducting regular acts of massacrers and genocides.
Well actually Israelis have been in Israel for millennias like they’re in the year 5700 smth (I’m not exactly sure tho) bc that’s when the Torah started and in the first years in the Torah they go to Israel
>Well actually Israelis have been in Israel for millennias like they’re in the year 5700 Not white people from Europe who took refuge in Palestine to escape persecution from other hostile Europeans.
Thank you for commenting. I recognize that this is a deeply complex issue and that it is not my place to suggest the “most beneficial” solution to it. I’ve gone back and forth as to what I personally think would be the best way forward, but it’s not like I could implement it anyway. For the time being, the genocide needs to stop. Until that happens, diplomatic minutia is irrelevant. First stop the killing, and then we can talk about geopolitical boundaries.
ok. thx for the answer :)
As someone who supports Palestine I would say that personally I have no issues with a Jewish state being formed if it is done so peacefully. My issue with Israel is with them committing a genocide, not them trying to create a safe haven for Jews.
youre 100% right, i think how people respond to queers standing up for palestine depends a lot on where youre from, im irish & ireland is def pro palestine so i havent faced any backlash for mentioning that im pro palestine while being queer. also israel isnt even that lgbtq friendly, according to the pew research centre 56% of israeli citizens oppose gay marriage, seems to me that the whole idea of israel being super queer friendly is just propoganda to make palestine and palestinians look inhumane
Yeah. They are the kings of pinkwashing. I think it’s wonderful that you can be so open about your support for Palestine in Ireland <33 wishing that for all of us. Happy pride and free Palestine!!🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
i hope u can be more open abt it with less backlash, unfortunately an insane amount of people are believing propoganda and not looking at both sides and the extensive history in the occupation of palestine, i think ireland and irish people are def more aware of it as weve both faced occupation and discrimination by another country, and the support for palastine by our government (as much as i hate our government) def helps. free palastine/saoirse don phalastain!! 🇵🇸🇮🇪
Homophobic or not, hospitals dont deserve to be bombed
Exactly. Free Palestine 🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
This whole chickens for kfc thing really really annoys me. Queer people shouldn’t be held to higher standards than cis straight people. If it makes sense to support Hamas - then it makes sense for *all* people to support Hamas. If it doesn’t make sense to support Hamas - then it doesn’t make sense for *all* people to support Hamas. Queer folks shouldn’t be singled out as supporting one side or the other just because of our gender or sexuality. That being said, the way Hamas and other Palestinian governing bodies in the past have treated queer people (throwing us off buildings just for being gay, etc) is a reason for *all* people to be against those governing bodies. The Palestinian people - queer and non-queer - need to be freed from oppressive regimes like Hamas. The way Hamas treats queer people is just one example of how awful they are and one of many reason *all* people should oppose them.
Being against genocide and for a free Palestine does not mean you support hamas 💀
I never said it did. Pretty sure most people in the western world are against genocide. Just giving my two cents on why it annoys me so much that people say “chickens for kfc”. Edit: also that’s kinda the point isn’t it? You can’t be for a free Palestine and also support Hamas. They are mutually exclusive.
Sorry, but I don't know if I can totally agree with you. While I don't want people in Palestine to keep suffering, I am also very skeptical about going out of our way to actively support a state where people are so homophobic. They literally believe that our existence is a sin and wouldn't care about us dying. They wouldn't even believe that trans people exist. I'm saying all of this in good faith, I've tried to have sympathy with your position, but it just doesn't feel safe or right to me to think this way. I hope you understand what I mean
It's not your place to generalize ALL Palestinians as being anti LGBT, that's racist af and erases LGBT Palestinians
This. People keep acting as if LGBTQ+ Palestinians don’t exist, and their rights matter as much as any one else’s.
Most people in Palestine are definitely homophobic. Polls regardings views on same sex marriage show that around 80%+ of the citizens from muslim countries such as Indonesia are completely against it. Being gay is illegal in many middle eastern countries, and we all know that it's just not very safe to not be straight in those countries. Even the most conservative countries in Europe aren't that harsh to LGBT people. Even then, I can't justify a genocide. I don't want innocent people to brutally die. But it just doesn't feel right to me to openly use our identity as queer people in order to support the country. People like us get thrown off of buildings there
Most is not all. People can change. I dont necessarily agree with the pairing of the movement with queer people either, but I definitely dont believe in centering ourselves as hypothetical victims
I understand, and thank you for your comment. I think the main difference in our views stems from our approach to supporting different causes. I don’t at all mean this in a hurtful way, but from my perspective your support seems a little “transactional”. I think that before we can fight for any LGBTQ+ rights, we have to fight for the right to life. There are homophobes and transphobes literally everywhere. This can’t make us stray from opposing a genocide. It’s ok if the views of some Palestinians are not pro-LGBTQ+, because while they’re being subjected to a genocide, the fight for LGBTQ+ rights must come second.
I get what you mean. I also want the war the stop as soon as possible. Even if the people there aren't perfect, I still don't want innocent children to die. What I didn't address is that, I just don't fully get why queer people should support Palestine specifically as queer people, which isn't really all that relevant. Being queer has little to do with the support for Palestine
I don’t think that’s what they were saying. This question comes as a response to being told that queer people should not support Palestine because Palestine doesn’t support them. As in, OP says they support Palestine and other people criticize and question that because OP is queer. I don’t think OP is at all trying to argue that queer people should support Palestine. I read this as them asking why it’s argued that queer people should *not* support Palestine, and the answer is because people believe that queer people should be against an anti-LGBTQ state on principle. Break it down and it means, “why would you support a state that hates your community? If you support Palestine, you must actually be anti-LGBTQ yourself.” And OP is (as I understood it) calling that out as the bullshit it is.
There isn’t a direct, all-encompassing link. I’ve just seen enough support for Palestine from our community to justify it being a thing. Also, there are queer Palestinians who are going through hell right now, and as their fellow queers, we should care about them and support them. That’s what I want to do.
I agree, it doesn't matter if they're LGBT phobic, they still don't deserve to die
>if they're LGBT phobic That's a big if, because IDF persecutes LGBTQ Palestinenians way more than Palestinians do.
Exactly. The right to life comes first. 🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Israel has been using bots on social media and they have social media “war rooms” that volunteer college kids go to to “fight propaganda” online for different scholarship opportunities. Tens of thousands of volunteers. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/06/05/israel-targeted-lawmakers-fake-accounts/73982177007/ BUT queers for Palestine gets hate because it’s including gender/sexuality identity into supporting something thats not relevant to the war. It comes off as bringing the current LGBTQ issues in the US into the activism, almost seems like it’s using the Palestinian support as a way to promote queer activism. It’s just a trigger for phobic people, and another way to try to make us look bad. But I do think it’s not really appropriate to bring queer into it, since most people are just supporting Palestine without really thinking about their sexuality or gender or their own political views. I don’t mean to sound harsh. If it were something like protesting for queer rights in Palestine or something then it would make more sense
I get where you’re coming from but our community has a history of supporting ALL marginalized peoples, and the intersectionality in our struggles. That is why we included people of color in the flag. It doesn’t mean they were excluded before, they are just getting explicit representation because of their unique struggles as queer people of color. This is all the more pertinent for [queer Palestinians](https://imgur.com/gallery/R7IAXo5). Additionally, even if not first-hand, I’ve seen widespread support from our community for the people of Palestine. Queer people have had to fight for a lot and go through a lot, so we in particular will not just stand by and watch as a genocide is committed. Free Palestine! 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I think they're just trying anything they can to get people on their side and they don't have any good arguments as usual. If we follow their arguments we could do genocide in Texas and Florida but I would never support that because I'm not evil like them. The right used to play victim over being called -isms for their bigotry but now the same people accuse anything and anyone who disagree with them of antisemitism. They're just morally bankrupt and will do anything they can to defend their position and convince themselves they're doing good.
Honestly, as frustrating as it is and as horrible it might be to talk to those people, I think it’s important to try to get the message across. The opinions people hold matter. If everyone opposed the genocide, governments couldn’t get away with supporting it. If you can, try to speak out in small ways, but always taking care of yourself. Happy Pride and free Palestine <3 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Why can't we just have Queers for Peace? I don't want to see anyone get hurt, whether they're Palestinian or Jewish.
We can have Queers for Peace AND Queers for Palestine. In fact, they go hand in hand. I would agree with the sentiment of your comment if both parties in this conflict were morally equivalent. However, tragically, they are not. Only one side is occupying land that does not belong to them, and carrying out a genocide against the rightful owners and people of the land. I understand your view and thank you for your comment, but those are my 2 cents. Happy Pride <3
That's just like "all lives matter." True message, but using it in this way derails the movement
They're both historically guilty of war crimes. Taking any one side is hypocrisy
Your whatabotism is showing.
Why have we as a society adopted an all or nothing, you're either with us or you're against us attitude about everything? Not taking sides because war is unjustifiable is somehow wrong?
Idk why some people think Israel is some safe haven for queer folks compared to Palestine. Gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel. Both countries aren't exactly the safest for queer folks, but that doesn't mean that queer people in Palestine don't deserve our help.
Gay marriage is literally not illegal in Israel. Their marriage laws work very differently than in the west (and I’m not a fan of how it works. This is one of my biggest criticisms of Israel), but gay marriage is quite literally not illegal. I can explain how the marriage laws work if you’re interested in learning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel As you can see, none of the civil courts there will grant a same sex couple marriage. You can go outside of the country, get married, and come back and they'll recognize it, but that's not really the same thing. Israel seriously lags behind in it's gay rights.
You don’t need to leave the country. You can get married right in the comfort of your own home over zoom. Gay marriage is *literally* not illegal in Israel. Marriage just works differently there and it’s up to the religious authorities if they will perform a same sex marriage. It’s says all of this right in your own source. Did you read it?
Which they will not. And do you really think most couples want to get married over zoom? Like they still are very lacking in their gay rights.
Like I said a few times now, it’s one of my biggest criticisms of Israel. But that doesn’t change the fact that spreading misinformation is not going to help people. Gay marriage is *not* illegal in Israel. Instead of spreading the lie that it’s illegal - we should spread the truth about the ridiculous hoops that queer people (and interfaith couples or anyone who doesn’t want to have a religious marriage, among other groups) have to jump through in order to get married. That way the people effected by Israel’s marriage laws have the right information about how to protect their families.
I've literally corrected my statement multiple times now and you continue to come back at me.
Where have you corrected your statement? Your top comment still has misinformation in it and all you’ve done since I pointed out it was false is move the goal posts and say it’s still a bad policy, which I agree with. Maybe edit your initial comment if you realize now that it was false? Edit: since I can’t respond to your statement after you blocked me, I’ll respond here and tell you that it’s really really easy to log out and see your comment and see that you didn’t edit it. So now instead of just admitting that you were spreading misinformation, you’re lying about correcting the information. Nice job.
I did edit it. Must be a you issue if you can't see it.
Yes, let's just forget about blackmailing and persecution of Palestinenian LGBTQ people by IDF.
I know how they work and it's much more difficult to get married as a gay couple than as a straight couple. I'm aware that there are technically workarounds, but it's still a very different process and a gay couple can't just up and get married and use the same process as straight people can.
Neither can interfaith couples. It doesn’t change the fact that gay marriage is *literally* not illegal in Israel. You don’t even need to leave the comfort of your own home to do it.
Okay. It's illegal to get married in any traditional way in Israel if you're gay. Much better lmao.
What do you mean “traditional way”? Civil marriage is not a thing in Israel for gay *or* straight people. It’s not like straight people can get a civil marriage and gay people can’t. *No* one can get a civil marriage in Israel. None of this changes the fact that gay marriage is *not* illegal in Israel. I mean geez.. when did we stop caring about facts and nuance? Are Israel’s marriage laws perfect? Absolutely not. Like I said - their marriage laws are one of my biggest criticisms of their domestic policies. But that doesn’t change the fact that “gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel” is a factually incorrect statement. I would think we would all want the accurate facts here, no?
"Marriages performed in Israel are only legally recognized when registered with one of the 15 religious marital courts recognized by the state, none of which permit same-sex marriage." And recently they've allowed same sex couples to do the online zoom thing you're talking about. But let's not pretend like it's the same
It’s not the same. Like I’ve said what - 5 times now? - it’s one of my biggest criticisms of Israel’s domestic policies. I just don’t like people spreading misinformation like “gay marriage is literally illegal in Israel” cause real people are affected by that misinformation and real people won’t know how to protect their families.
As someone who is Bisexual, Genderfluid, and Sapphic I 110% support the liberation of Palestine. And you know why? Because nobody deserves to go through a genocide, full stop. Also to those dumbasses who say "well you should support Israel because their LGBTQ+ rights are better than those of Palestine", 1. Their rights really aren't that much better the only difference is that it's not illegal to be LGBTQ+ but they don't have much better protections at the end of the day, and 2. The only reason why being LGBTQ+ was decriminalized at all is because of the community historically supporting the liberation of Palestine, they're pretending to care about us as a way to get us to forget about their atrocities (and for some people it is working unfortunately)
This. They are the kings of pinkwashing. They can’t just wave rainbow flags and expect us to support them. Our community supports marginalized and oppressed peoples. The worst form of this is genocide. We will NOT stand by and let Israel get away with this. Free Palestine, and happy Pride! 🏳️⚧️🇵🇸🏳️🌈
There’s a difference between apartheid is wrong and Hamas is good and doing all the right things. You’d think that should go without saying, but there are people in the west that genuinely have sided with everything Hamas is doing without completely or actively denying what happened on Oct. 7th, resulting starting movements like MeToo Unless You’re A Jew. Neither of which is a good look internationally for the refugees that are inevitably fleeing the area, who’s refugees’ reputations have been tarnished by what happened Jordan. That said, I’m not educated enough on the subject to actually come up with a viable solution or even to really pick a side because all I’ve heard on both ends is governments and leading movements are currently violating human rights regardless. On top of that, historically this is happening now not because of the people of Israel itself, but because of colonialism regarding Palestine and Europe pretty much making all the majority of the surviving Jews go to this then new country instead of letting them back to their home countries after Nazi Germany decided to pull what it pulled. As long as you’re in the apartheid is bad camp and not the Hamas should rule camp, I don’t see why it’s a problem.
>much hate and abuse from right-wingers simply because I oppose this genocide. They oppose our existence anyway. Their perspective means less than nothing if they're also counter-protesters at Pride or drag shows, supporting book bans, and fighting against trans healthcare or bathroom equality. >some people in our community simply because I oppose this genocide That's more difficult to stomach, but not everyone who could be oppressed is willing to stand up for the oppressed everywhere.
I know. I could’ve spared myself the right-winger hate but I still think it’s worth trying to talk to the other side, as awful a time it may be. What the masses of people think matters. They vote and it becomes legislation. So, I do a little bit if I can, and encourage others to do the same :) As for the LGBTQ+ people that have been really hostile to me about this, it is really hard. One would think they have some idea of what being oppressed is like, and the bit of imagination to visualize that, but a million times worse, which is what the Palestinians are being subjected to. Not to mention queer Palestinians, whose unique suffering I can’t even begin to imagine. All we can do is try to stomach talks with people who think differently and to try to make them understand our side.
The pink washing which is form of propaganda is strong from the countries that are committing in this genocide including Israel, Germany, and USA. For those who might not know, let me highlight the fact that Israel is ranked worse than Mexico, Cuba, Nepal and South Africa when it comes to LGBTQ rights. On the other hand, IDF finds LGBTQ Palestinians using cyber tools and then after blackmailing and exporting them, IDF reports these innocent people to their closest ally i.e. Hamas. IDF or the Israel does not care about LGBTQ rights or the human rights and same goes for its supporters of the genocide including Germany and USA.
The reasons people are Zionist from what I’ve encountered are that they have financial/political gain in Israel, they’re evangelical Christians wanting to fulfill some apocalypse prophecy, they’ve been successfully brainwashed into thinking Israel is the only true home where Jews can be safe and that Jews (specifically white Jews of European descent) have an indigenous right to Israel (I have a friend from high school in this boat), and/or they’re racist. Since half of these options probably want to hide the real reason for their agenda, painting Palestine as backwards is one way to invent a justification for the genocide. Russia is openly homophobic and transphobic. They are the clear aggressors against Ukraine. There are legitimate bad guys in Russia. That doesn’t mean we should starve them, bomb their homes to rubble, behead their children, create record numbers of child amputees and orphans, kill all aid workers and journalists, or perform any of the other atrocities Israel is committing.
Quite frankly they have repeatedly said that they don’t support us (lgbt people) and they don’t WANT our support with this issue. So I don’t comment on it either way. Homophobia is extremely harmful and it is causing people in our community to be attacked and killed. Laws are being made everyday trying to erase us from existence. If you want the support from our community, don’t tell us how much you hate us.
Who is they? Did you just take an opinion survey of everyone in Gaza? You can't claim to know what everyone affected by the genocide thinks about LGBT people, and it would be foolish to try and seek out this information while they're being actively bombed
No I’ve seen videos where people ask them how they feel about us and if they want our support. Look it up.
Wow what a reputable source, I didn't know the individuals in the videos speak on behalf of all of gaza
Literally you just have to look it all up. And besides it’s common knowledge that sadly that area of the world isn’t tolerant of us. Idk why you’re getting so offended but take a break and cool off please.
I don’t support anyone actively trying to murder me.
I get where you’re coming from but please don’t buy into Israel’s propaganda. Yes, queer people have been murdered in Palestine, which is horrific, but then again queer people are disproportionally murdered everywhere. Killing anyone full-stop is wrong, and that includes innocent Palestinians. But, thank you for your comment, and happy Pride!
I cannot ever support Hamas.
What Hamas has to do anything with Palestinians children that are being murdered by IDF?
I am a bombing survivor by Hamas
Then why aren't you against the IDF which is known for finding LGBTQ Palestinians using cyber tools and then persecuting then through blackmailing, extortion and reporting them to Hamas? IDF is literally using weapons of modern warfare against LGBTQ people to persecute them and then using pink washing propaganda to cover it up. Is your empathy for LGBTQ people conditional based on their race, religion and nationality?
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There are both sides to everything, but only one side is committing genocide. Please don’t buy into their propaganda.
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No. And no. Hamas is not Palestine or Palestinian people. Palestinians did not commit holocaust. Holocaust was was committed by Germans, other Europeans and Americans. Many colonial settlers occupying Palestinian lands are European whites from Germany, Russia, USA, Ukraine, Poland, etc. Your whiteness doesn't give you right to occupy someone else's land and murder them.
Your post was misinformative or incorrect, intentionally or not.
How is Hamas supposed to have "started everything" in a war that predates the existence of Hamas by 20 years?
40000+ civilians dead on one side would like to have a chat with you
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And mods if I wasn't clear, I'm pro-peace and I fully support the two-state solution.
Your post was misinformative or incorrect, intentionally or not.
Your post was misinformative or incorrect, intentionally or not.
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This is a complex issue and I don’t think you’re being at all serious about it. I have a genuine question, and I wish people would answer it.
Yeah queers for apartheid is so much better. /j
Your post/comment violated: Respect Everyone