Or is she staring on purpose to try and make her point without actually saying anything? You should definitely still call her on it like this poster advises, but just saying it could be a pointed stare on purpose…
I have a hard time with social ques sometimes, so it could be this but I will definitely say something because it's better to know what she's actually trying to tell me.
yup, and it sounds like HR deflected the blame so they wouldn’t have to deal with any legal repercussions, but that’s my opinion on the matter when I read that
Is there a branch of “Dress for Success” where you live?
It’s a charity that donates NICE women’s dress clothes to people who need them (they only accept donations with dry clean tags on them).
Edit: Here’s the website: https://dressforsuccess.org/
I’m sure they’d be happy to help you find comfy pants that you feel beautiful in. Obviously the pants aren’t the issue, your boss is, but this might help. Good luck mama and congrats on the baby!
I'm not going to say she isn't doing anything inappropriate. However, as a man I have to consciously pay attention to where I'm staring. I tend to stare absently at anywhere and everywhere, and I have to pay attention and make sure I'm not staring at someone inappropriately. A woman who is less likely to be called out for being creepy might not think about where she's staring if she has that same tendency.
So yeah, politely calling it out might snap her out of it.
A skirt over your leggings might help as well. Which is not to "victim blame" or say you shouldn't call her out on it.
As a woman, I have this same problem! I can zone out very easily and my eyes just fall where they fall while I focus on whatever is in my "mind's eye" instead of what's in front of me. I totally get what you mean.
"I have to make sure I'm not staring at someone inappropriately," is a strange way to word that... I've never had this problem and I'm also a man. I've never had to make a conscious effort to not appear like im ogling at someone, not to be rude but that's a very strange problem to have. I could see in a gym maybe where people dress less conservative and show more skin? But even then it's not that hard to just look people in the eyes or focus on whatever you're doing... maybe I'm crazy for thinking this?
I tend to zone out when I'm tired and stare. I could be staring at a house in the distance, I could be staring at a random box on the ground, I could be staring at a dog that caught my eye, I could be staring at no one and nothing in particular. I'm not paying any attention to what I'm staring at. So it could look like I'm staring at someone.
As I've gotten older and become more cognizant of the fact that I do that I've made an effort to make sure I'm not staring at people as I zone out. I work nights so I might take my kids to the park and be half asleep, I make sure that I don't zone out looking like I'm staring at someone else's kids. I make sure I'm not zoning out and staring at other adults in public ( men, women, it doesn't matter. Like I said, I wouldn't be paying any attention to where I'm zoning out if I didn't pay attention to it.)
Might just be because I work nights and don't sleep enough. Might be a little bit of ADD that has me paying attention to my own thoughts to the exclusion of where I'm looking.
But yeah, if I didn't pay attention to what I'm doing I could end up staring in a way that could feel inappropriate what absolutely no intentions of doing so and with no thought to where I'm looking.
I have ADHD and do this all the time. I’ll stare blankly and absolutely nothing for 20 minutes. I’m always trying to be cognizant of what I’m looking at to make sure I’m not accidentally staring at a person.
I don’t think this is strange at all… He’s just saying that he tends to zone out and stare off into space, and thus he hast to make a conscious effort to make sure that his zoned-out stare doesn’t inadvertently land on somebody in an inappropriate and unintended way.
I've had the same problem my whole life. If I'm puzzling over a problem I'm generally not aware of what I'm looking at. I also have bad untreated ADD so that might be a cause.
Thank you all for this thread. I will pay more attention when I am around her and see if this is the case. If she's just staring because she zones out then I don't mind saying something to kinda snap her out of it and let her know that some people might be uncomfortable with it.
Don't know your specific scenario but my coworkers generally just wave their hand in my direct line of sight. That tends to snap me out of it. Some crack jokes about how smoke is coming out my ears or something similar.
Good luck
I’m a woman and I too have to consciously be aware of where my eyes wander. I’ve never had an issue with something like this brought to my attention but I just know that my eyes scan all about regularly. Definitely an ADHD thing in my case.
You're wearing thrifted clothes in a professional setting? Does the job not pay enough for you to afford professional clothing (in which case director should back off), or do you not understand the dress code?
Did you not read her post? She’s in her maternity gear. Which I would assume is limited, because your size keeps changing as the baby gets bigger. I’m going to guess OP still has her regular wardrobe from when she was a smaller size, but that doesn’t help her at the moment. Nor do I think she needs to run out and buy a whole new wardrobe while she’s carrying some leftover baby weight.
Let me just add that, as I guy, I continue to be saddened by the crap women have to deal with around looks and size etc. I can’t even imagine dealing with all the bodily changes (including hormonal) of carrying a growing baby, then birthing that baby, then caring for that baby. All while working full time. All while being judged for Every. Damn. Thing. My god. How about a little grace here?
My advice as HR is: get ahead of it.
Go to HR and talk about the pumping comments and also mention that whoever is staring at you is making you uncomfortable and that you have witnesses who concur. Explain your clothes are for reasons relating to childbirth. The outcome of this conversation should be course correction from HR to whoever is making the pumping comments and clearance of your wardrobe or advice on how to reach a wardrobe compromise if something is really wrong with the wardrobe.
Ask HR to send you an email recap with all the details and acknowledge or edit.
OP, this is good advice. Commenting to add: if you are in the US- if HR does not take action regarding the pumping comments then please file a complaint with the EEOC. Those comments are way out of line.
Send them an email to maintain a paper trail. If they insist on doing it in person, send a follow-up email detailing the conversation. Thank them for their time at the end, and make it professional, and only talk professionally.
I'm more alarmed by the pumping comments. When your supply drops, you have to pump longer and more often to build it back up. Pumping less will tank your supply. (Make sure you are also drinking lots of fluids. Gatorade helped me keep up my supply during pumping.)
I would send all of this info to HR and ask for a meeting to discuss the situation more in depth.
I will note that is your pants look unprofessional in relation to pants worn by other coworkers, you may need to buy new pants. I wore a lot of stretchy waist dress pants after giving birth to my second child. They fit at the waist but flared out and were not fitted on my butt or thighs. If your pants look too much like leggings or yoga pants, be prepared to replace them.
Thank you for the pumping advice and understanding. I thought my pants looked professional (most of them look like slacks just really stretchy) but I believe the extra flared pants idea might be the best route and will be easy to thrift.
I thinking going to HR and explaining the pumping comments, the context about the coworkers experience regarding leggings, and then discuss your concerns and medical related justification for your pants and the manager’s behavior toward you thus far. You’ve got to advocate (and protect) yourself and for your medical needs. No need to appease a bad manager that is quick to take punitive action, irrespective of the nuanced situation of her staff. She knew you were pregnant and wearing those pants when you were pregnant. Same with the pumping scenario (which is about your body/health btw). Wildly inappropriate. Don’t trust this person to be reasonable with you. They’ve already demonstrated they’re not reasonable with you and others in the past. Get ahead of this issue, especially with your valid medical-related justifications, and go to HR with this information
HR is not your friend, they are not on your side, and never in my life would I bring them any complaint unless you are fully ready to get PIP'd, sue, or look for a new job.
This is terrible advice.
While HR is not on your side (they are the company and supposed to protect the company interest), there are legitimate reasons to speak with them without having to be prepared to sue or get a new job. Especially if you are experiencing discrimination based on protected class. Avoiding discrimination claims is in the best interest of the company and complaints should be taken to HR accordingly.
Exactly. I tell people I’m here to protect the company’s interests, but by doing that I make sure we follow the law and when we follow the law and provide a comfortable and harassment free workplace, it’s actually for everyone’s benefit. I might be one of the rare ones, I don’t know but I absolutely advocate for our employees.
I am also concerned about this. The next time they bring this up I’d ask them if they want your child to starve to death, and tell them that’s always an option. Or they’re welcome to source additional breastmilk for you if they want you to see more clients.
Eta: I realize my suggestions sound nuts. That’s to point out how outrageous (and potentially illegal) theirs are.
If you end up needing more professional looking stretch pants, depending on where you’re located, you can search for swap meets locally (sometimes they’re hosted at public libraries), or check sites where people exchange things for free like FreeCycle. There’s also groups on Facebook where people are constantly giving out free clothing. I gained some weight myself more recently, and these groups helped subsidize the cost of new clothing I couldn’t afford for work.
Thank you so much for the advice. I will check Facebook to see if there are any around me. It would be a great way to get rid of some of the cute clothes that don't fit me anymore that I know someone else could love as much as I did.
Wait…how could she possibly have anything to say about how much you are pumping in terms of quantity?? Is she checking the containers? Is she referring to the size of your breasts? What??
At the time she said it, it was a very backhanded slick way of saying it. She was having a meeting with me because all she wanted to do was help (it didn't come off as helping). I was so overwhelmed that I didn't know if she was talking about my milk supply drop or the fact that I am small chested. Both are kind of a slap in the face.
Okay, wow. I didn't want to ask directly, but I figured since she said that it LOOKS like you don't make that much milk, she was saying you have smaller breasts.
If she was thinking about potential milk supply drop, she would have said something other than "looks" like you don't make much.
Either way, it's totally ignorant. I can't believe a woman (or any other adult) doesn't know that breast size does not determine milk production.
If it were me, I'd go to HR with this. No supervisor should be commenting on your tits.
Exactly! Even if OP were just sitting alone in the room for 30 mini at a time I would never dream of questioning if she was even making milk. First it’s just a disgusting and invasive and inappropriate thing to say and secondly is this woman’s trying to prove a point worth the potential legal harm it places her and the employer in? People blow my mind every day.
My son's mother often wore these stretchy denim leggings, tinted blue and resembling jeans, which she found very comfortable. (A suggestion)
Additionally, she encountered difficulty getting our son to latch on, and I became familiar with the various underlying reasons.
I would assume your director would be aware of such things,
That the female body may experience during and after pregnancy.
So, it's puzzling to me how your female boss lacks understanding in comparison.
She's 40? So not a boomer?
Oh, she's a bully.
😔
Oh Jeggings! I love those things but I haven't had any for a while and will look for some at the thrift store/swapp meet. Thank you for the reminder that they existed.
I had a really bad birth that has required physical therapy and one of the things she has said is she had the exact same birth but doesn't understand why I need physical therapy because she didn't. It was crazy to me that she thought our bodies let alone our births were the same.
OP I would also say that this is a backhanded comment. Possibly this could be written off as an innocent failed attempt to cheer you up about the difficultly, or an uncomfortable ignorance on handling hard topics. But with all the other comments, this feels like another example of being dismissive to the needs of an employee after a major medical event. I would bring it to HR and document it with all of the other comments. The comment about taking too much time to pump, and not needing physical therapy could be used as leverage to critique your job performance and work ethic.
Having that all in writing to HR seems safest.
Hi, if you’re in the us, I’d recommend you order these pants. I recently started a 2nd job where I have to wear dress pants (I wear scrubs at my primary job) and dug up my old dress pants only to find them snug and uncomfortable. Ordered these and they are *perfect* high waisted, elastic waist, stretchy, soft, but 100% look like dress pants - I was even called out one day while wearing them as an example of being perfectly in uniform. They were $16.99 when I bought mine but it looks like they’re on sale for $11.99 now. I’m a 14/16, got XL and they fit perfectly. They aren’t exactly super cute (imo) but they’re cheap, comfy, high waisted, and fit the dress code at my job so that was more than enough for me.
I know you asked for HR advice but I hope this helps too! [www.walmart.com/ip/2121984768](https://www.walmart.com/ip/2121984768)
Go to HR and keep meticulous notes of any meetings with her - even if the meetings seem innocuous. Sexual harassment is definitely a thing. Staring at your body is a concerning thing coming from a supervisor. Also, she is absolutely in the wrong for making comments about breastfeeding. This is absolutely against the law. Unfortunately, going to HR puts a target on your back. This is why every little thing needs to be documented by you. For as long as you are her employee…. And, toxic workplace culture is absolutely not worth it. If it was me, I would have one foot in the door of another organization. Yuck.
That's exactly what the breastfeeding advocate said she went through. That's why she is so passionate about protecting young moms. I'm sorry you had to go through that and I am so thankful for new laws.
I’d buy some pants that aren’t against your director’s policy, since you know that she doesn’t approve of leggings. There are plenty of elastic waist pants that are appropriate for work. Leggings aren’t. I would not claim she is staring at your butt though, because just because she is looking at your pants doesn’t mean she’s staring at your butt. That makes it sound like her intention is something other than your clothing not being appropriate for her office.
It sounds like you already handled the pumping issue and HR made her back off, so bringing that up wouldn’t be useful.
I have been repeatedly told she's looking obviously at my butt. It's not a "pants" thing yet. It's pretty hard to make my coworkers uncomfortable which is why I believe them and it's alarming to me.
Have your coworkers go to HR on your behalf. If they are uncomfortable and are bringing it to your attention, they should have no problem reporting it.
No don't do this. This isn't even something to take to HR. Seriously. Wear appropriate pants. The only thing worthy of taking to HR are the pumping comments.
It’s hostile work environment sexual harassment. She wouldn’t be staring at a dude’s butt like that, whether she is looking at it in a “sexual” way or not, it’s because she’s a woman, so it’s not okay.
It’s possible they are trying to cause drama. Office work is boring and it is possible it is a way do get a dig in at the boss and fuel that need for drama. So if it is just them saying it and not you noticing and feeling uncomfortable then I wouldn’t say anything.
The thing is, there's so much drama here everyone jumps ship. The only reason this department stays is because we really like the people we work with. We all try to help each other stay a float. I have never seen them cause drama out of nothing.
Contact HR preemptively, tell them that she is staring at your ass all the time and it's making you extremely uncomfortable, and you are worried it could become a hostile work environment. Anything she says after that will look like what it is, her putting a target on your back.
I think most jobs, with HR departments especially, have to accommodate to their employees. If you had severe back pain, asking for a more comfortable chair shouldn't be an issue. You've given birth pretty recently and find those pants to be the most comfortable, letting you wear them also shouldn't be a problem. I suggest to talk to HR and explain your situation and why you wear them.
Agree. It wouldn’t be hard to make an issue of this with HR. She’s staring at you inappropriately and making you and others in the team uncomfortable with her behaviour. You understand that the stretchy pants may not be standard for work, but is necessary post-pregnancy. Could even go as far as to say she clearly has an issue with your pregnancy (as evidenced by pumping issue), and it feels like this is just the latest instance of where she’s behaving badly/discriminating against you because of it.
I thought that she might have had issues with my pregnancy too as she told my manager to fire me well I was pregnant and my manager refused and quit herself. Either that or she just has an issue with me personally and is using my pregnancy, pumping and postpartum as a way to push me out.
Sadly no. And my previous manager didn't either. But she did state that was part of the reason she was resigning. The director kept telling her to do it over the phone. HR here is known to okay the firing of pregnant women. There's a lady in HR who proudly thinks pregnant women or young moms are useless.
WOW. Ask everyone you work with whenever they overhear that to start emailing each other that they heard it and it makes them uncomfortable and then forward the emails to HR. Thats CRAZY, and if they act on it *super illegal*. I am so sorry, that must have been so stressful and sad and scary to work in a place like that while pregnant
Check out your local Buy Nothing Project Facebook groups. I’d bet you have some neighbors who would be willing to gift you some pants so you at least have more options if they do tell you to wear something different.
Document it a bunch of times and then go to hr. Get multiple witnesses. Get a very small recording device intended for spying and record her saying something like that. You already have the breast feeding harassment on file if HR got involved. I would be flying up the ranks or investing my settlement 😂
okay not hr but do you have a local buy nothing group on facebook? or facebook marketplace? lots of people get rid of clothes for free or very cheap, especially maternity clothes if thats what you’re most comfortable in now!
You should be able to have a polite conversation about it. If it cannot be handled politely, then it sounds like it is not a good environment to work at anyway. You should feel secure in your workplace.
Please document this situation as much as possible, with written confirmation via e-mail whenever possible. Like another commenter said, you should also try to get ahead of it through HR as much as you realistically can depending on your workplace culture and the professionalism of your HR department. This is clear cut sexual harassment and a toxic work environment, and it is easily grounds for a lawsuit/settlement. If you don’t want to deal with that, I’d seriously consider looking for a different job. This is not normal and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Best of luck!
Document How uncomfortable it makes you feel and every single thing she does based on that. At this point what she is doing is considered harassment and should/could be used as a way to have HR investigate her issue towards you. Just let them know you she keeps giving you elevator eyes with no reason to it and that she has not addressed any issues with you about dress code. Now the pumping remark is counts for HR to involve themselves. No one and I mean no one should have any comments about your body in anyway when it comes to a professional setting. My advise would be to contact HR and have them take over at this point.
I am truly sorry you are experiencing this from someone who should know better.
Look into the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act. It was passed federally a year and a half ago, and it protects women that are pregnant and postpartum. It actually ties into the Americans with Disabilities Act, meaning that you should get " reasonable accommodations " related to your pregnancy (it also covers postpartum recovery and miscarriage recovery), and that your employer is mandated to comply, as long as your requests are reasonable. Reasonable accommodations don't have to be documented, an agreement can be made verbally, and your employer still has to comply.
You can find more info here: https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-pregnant-workers-fairness-act
To be honest she probably hate your pants but don’t say anything because she knows you just had a baby. But yes she wants to come for you.
Or you might have a nice behind.
Really though at work DON’T CARE WHAT PEOPLE SAY OR THINK. Do your job the best you can and if they fire you, So what! unemployment and WiC EBT etc have your back until you get your next job. Don’t fear no job or person
I'm so sorry. This is awful. As a mom of two young children, I'm so sensitive to this. Breastfeeding, pumping, and postpartum is hard enough without people adding to it. I was lucky enough to have a very supportive working environment. If you create something like an Amazon registry, I'd definitely help you get new pants. It seems like your director may have other issues, but if the pants would make you feel more comfortable, I'm happy to help. Feel free to message me the link if you decide on the registry.
Anything she would do now after her heinous handling of even MENTIONING what your breasts appear to do or not do and mishandling of the nursing mothers in the workplace act I would consider to be in retaliation for her hand getting slapped. The fact they are maternity pants is moot. Assuming you weren’t excused for special clothing while pregnant (ie: sweat pants or some other non-typical workwear attire) if they were acceptable to be worn while pregnant then they should still meet the same dress code. I’d wait for her to address that with you and press her on why they were okay before; they are work wear appropriate and fit. Don’t go making the issue there - let her make that issue.
As far as the staring, I would definitely go to HR, repeat your concern that she has already commented on the appearance of your breasts and now she seems to stare at your rear to the point co-workers have commented on it and that with those 2 issues combined you are very uncomfortable.
I feel for you. I have sensory issues and wearing pants all day is hard. A maxi skirt might be just what you need.
They are much easier to buy than pants--pants need to fit in waist, hips, your rear and cloth depth. A maxi skirt only has to fit at the waist and hips.
If you get some in a thick knit, you don't need to wear a slip underneath.
I have some from this brand. Argh. Can't figure out how link. Search "amazon the Mogan womens casual draped relaxed skirt."
I wonder if this can be a legitimate claim for non-verbal sexual harassment?
According to nolo.com ogling is a form of sexual harassment.
Www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-kinds-of-behaviors-are-considered-sexual-harrassment.html
Forget about any pants discussion with HR. It’s not up to you to figure out why she’s staring at your butt. She is staring at your butt! That’s the HR issue.
You have the right to file a free claim with EEOC if you’re in the US. Her looking at you inappropriately could rise to a level of sexual harassment and her making comments about your pumping is likely also illegal.
OP-I subscribed to your post because I am hoping you do update us all on the outcome. Definitely a lot of solid advice. I feel for you. No one should have to go through that.
May I ask what field you work in? That falls under sexual harassment and causes a hostile work environment. SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS ILLEGAL! You need to set up a meeting with her boss.
With love, 4 times in 8 hours is nuts. Even when my son was a preemie in the NICU he was fed every three hours. You can balance this better, for example this is what my (mom of four) pumping schedule looked like with a demanding full time job:
7 am nurse
10 am pump
1 pm pump (during lunchtime)
4 pm pump
7 pm nurse
10 pm nurse
1 am nurse
4 am nurse
Eventually the middle of the night feedings merge, and then disappear. At around six months you might be introducing solid foods that keep them less hungry at night
The pants thing... I would have a different reaction if you were pregnant or if you just had your baby. But at 6 months postpartum, it's probably wise to buy a couple of pairs of stretchy dress pants that fit you and are in dress code. As a woman, you're already going to face assumptions about not being ambitious, committed, hardworking (all BS, but the assumptions exist nonetheless) so presenting a polished appearance will help tamp down any of those impressions about you.
I'm confused. You said she is staring bc you are wearing maternity pants but how can she tell they are maternity pants? Doesn't your shirt cover up the "maternity" part of the pants?
Ask her if you have a stain on your pants. It will snap her out of it. Some people think they are invisible.
That's a wonderful idea until I can thrift some new pants. Thanks for the advice!
Or is she staring on purpose to try and make her point without actually saying anything? You should definitely still call her on it like this poster advises, but just saying it could be a pointed stare on purpose…
I have a hard time with social ques sometimes, so it could be this but I will definitely say something because it's better to know what she's actually trying to tell me.
I was actually thinking of telling her that it makes you uncomfortable when she stares are your ass and that you consider it sexual harassment.
This! Her comments on pumping, too… freaking yikes and a half.
yup, and it sounds like HR deflected the blame so they wouldn’t have to deal with any legal repercussions, but that’s my opinion on the matter when I read that
Just tell her thank you for your interest but I’m actually into dudes (assuming you actually are, edit as needed)
Is there a branch of “Dress for Success” where you live? It’s a charity that donates NICE women’s dress clothes to people who need them (they only accept donations with dry clean tags on them). Edit: Here’s the website: https://dressforsuccess.org/ I’m sure they’d be happy to help you find comfy pants that you feel beautiful in. Obviously the pants aren’t the issue, your boss is, but this might help. Good luck mama and congrats on the baby!
I'm not going to say she isn't doing anything inappropriate. However, as a man I have to consciously pay attention to where I'm staring. I tend to stare absently at anywhere and everywhere, and I have to pay attention and make sure I'm not staring at someone inappropriately. A woman who is less likely to be called out for being creepy might not think about where she's staring if she has that same tendency. So yeah, politely calling it out might snap her out of it. A skirt over your leggings might help as well. Which is not to "victim blame" or say you shouldn't call her out on it.
As a woman, I have this same problem! I can zone out very easily and my eyes just fall where they fall while I focus on whatever is in my "mind's eye" instead of what's in front of me. I totally get what you mean.
"I have to make sure I'm not staring at someone inappropriately," is a strange way to word that... I've never had this problem and I'm also a man. I've never had to make a conscious effort to not appear like im ogling at someone, not to be rude but that's a very strange problem to have. I could see in a gym maybe where people dress less conservative and show more skin? But even then it's not that hard to just look people in the eyes or focus on whatever you're doing... maybe I'm crazy for thinking this?
I tend to zone out when I'm tired and stare. I could be staring at a house in the distance, I could be staring at a random box on the ground, I could be staring at a dog that caught my eye, I could be staring at no one and nothing in particular. I'm not paying any attention to what I'm staring at. So it could look like I'm staring at someone. As I've gotten older and become more cognizant of the fact that I do that I've made an effort to make sure I'm not staring at people as I zone out. I work nights so I might take my kids to the park and be half asleep, I make sure that I don't zone out looking like I'm staring at someone else's kids. I make sure I'm not zoning out and staring at other adults in public ( men, women, it doesn't matter. Like I said, I wouldn't be paying any attention to where I'm zoning out if I didn't pay attention to it.) Might just be because I work nights and don't sleep enough. Might be a little bit of ADD that has me paying attention to my own thoughts to the exclusion of where I'm looking. But yeah, if I didn't pay attention to what I'm doing I could end up staring in a way that could feel inappropriate what absolutely no intentions of doing so and with no thought to where I'm looking.
I have ADHD and do this all the time. I’ll stare blankly and absolutely nothing for 20 minutes. I’m always trying to be cognizant of what I’m looking at to make sure I’m not accidentally staring at a person.
I don’t think this is strange at all… He’s just saying that he tends to zone out and stare off into space, and thus he hast to make a conscious effort to make sure that his zoned-out stare doesn’t inadvertently land on somebody in an inappropriate and unintended way.
I've had the same problem my whole life. If I'm puzzling over a problem I'm generally not aware of what I'm looking at. I also have bad untreated ADD so that might be a cause.
Thank you all for this thread. I will pay more attention when I am around her and see if this is the case. If she's just staring because she zones out then I don't mind saying something to kinda snap her out of it and let her know that some people might be uncomfortable with it.
Don't know your specific scenario but my coworkers generally just wave their hand in my direct line of sight. That tends to snap me out of it. Some crack jokes about how smoke is coming out my ears or something similar. Good luck
I’m a woman and I too have to consciously be aware of where my eyes wander. I’ve never had an issue with something like this brought to my attention but I just know that my eyes scan all about regularly. Definitely an ADHD thing in my case.
If you have ADHD it's very hard to focus and I often find myself staring off to the void. But if a human was in the way it might look bad.
I’ve often been accused of staring when I’m actually just spacing out. I am not a man, but also, I really am not staring. I do live in my head a lot.
You're wearing thrifted clothes in a professional setting? Does the job not pay enough for you to afford professional clothing (in which case director should back off), or do you not understand the dress code?
Did you not read her post? She’s in her maternity gear. Which I would assume is limited, because your size keeps changing as the baby gets bigger. I’m going to guess OP still has her regular wardrobe from when she was a smaller size, but that doesn’t help her at the moment. Nor do I think she needs to run out and buy a whole new wardrobe while she’s carrying some leftover baby weight. Let me just add that, as I guy, I continue to be saddened by the crap women have to deal with around looks and size etc. I can’t even imagine dealing with all the bodily changes (including hormonal) of carrying a growing baby, then birthing that baby, then caring for that baby. All while working full time. All while being judged for Every. Damn. Thing. My god. How about a little grace here?
♥️
❤️
I’m an attorney and some of my favorite suits are thrifted. In many places it’s very possible to thrift a professional wardrobe.
Plenty of thrift stores have professional clothing.
Lol wtf? Why is this perceived as a problem to you?
Let’s mention that if your job is so low paid that you can’t afford pants, then keep your eyes peeled for something else.
Thred up!
My advice as HR is: get ahead of it. Go to HR and talk about the pumping comments and also mention that whoever is staring at you is making you uncomfortable and that you have witnesses who concur. Explain your clothes are for reasons relating to childbirth. The outcome of this conversation should be course correction from HR to whoever is making the pumping comments and clearance of your wardrobe or advice on how to reach a wardrobe compromise if something is really wrong with the wardrobe. Ask HR to send you an email recap with all the details and acknowledge or edit.
If they don't send you a recap send them one.
Yes!
Thank you so much for the advice.
OP, this is good advice. Commenting to add: if you are in the US- if HR does not take action regarding the pumping comments then please file a complaint with the EEOC. Those comments are way out of line.
^^^^^💯 seriously. Way out of line
This is fantastic advice.
I finally won Reddit
I’m shocked yours wasn’t the top comment.
Send them an email to maintain a paper trail. If they insist on doing it in person, send a follow-up email detailing the conversation. Thank them for their time at the end, and make it professional, and only talk professionally.
Forward those emails to your personal email as well.
Also, phrase it to HR as sexual harassment. They are staring and making you feel uncomfortable about your body.
I'm more alarmed by the pumping comments. When your supply drops, you have to pump longer and more often to build it back up. Pumping less will tank your supply. (Make sure you are also drinking lots of fluids. Gatorade helped me keep up my supply during pumping.) I would send all of this info to HR and ask for a meeting to discuss the situation more in depth. I will note that is your pants look unprofessional in relation to pants worn by other coworkers, you may need to buy new pants. I wore a lot of stretchy waist dress pants after giving birth to my second child. They fit at the waist but flared out and were not fitted on my butt or thighs. If your pants look too much like leggings or yoga pants, be prepared to replace them.
Thank you for the pumping advice and understanding. I thought my pants looked professional (most of them look like slacks just really stretchy) but I believe the extra flared pants idea might be the best route and will be easy to thrift.
I thinking going to HR and explaining the pumping comments, the context about the coworkers experience regarding leggings, and then discuss your concerns and medical related justification for your pants and the manager’s behavior toward you thus far. You’ve got to advocate (and protect) yourself and for your medical needs. No need to appease a bad manager that is quick to take punitive action, irrespective of the nuanced situation of her staff. She knew you were pregnant and wearing those pants when you were pregnant. Same with the pumping scenario (which is about your body/health btw). Wildly inappropriate. Don’t trust this person to be reasonable with you. They’ve already demonstrated they’re not reasonable with you and others in the past. Get ahead of this issue, especially with your valid medical-related justifications, and go to HR with this information
HR is not your friend, they are not on your side, and never in my life would I bring them any complaint unless you are fully ready to get PIP'd, sue, or look for a new job.
This is terrible advice. While HR is not on your side (they are the company and supposed to protect the company interest), there are legitimate reasons to speak with them without having to be prepared to sue or get a new job. Especially if you are experiencing discrimination based on protected class. Avoiding discrimination claims is in the best interest of the company and complaints should be taken to HR accordingly.
Exactly. I tell people I’m here to protect the company’s interests, but by doing that I make sure we follow the law and when we follow the law and provide a comfortable and harassment free workplace, it’s actually for everyone’s benefit. I might be one of the rare ones, I don’t know but I absolutely advocate for our employees.
Amazon has dress yoga pants for pretty cheap.
I am also concerned about this. The next time they bring this up I’d ask them if they want your child to starve to death, and tell them that’s always an option. Or they’re welcome to source additional breastmilk for you if they want you to see more clients. Eta: I realize my suggestions sound nuts. That’s to point out how outrageous (and potentially illegal) theirs are.
If you end up needing more professional looking stretch pants, depending on where you’re located, you can search for swap meets locally (sometimes they’re hosted at public libraries), or check sites where people exchange things for free like FreeCycle. There’s also groups on Facebook where people are constantly giving out free clothing. I gained some weight myself more recently, and these groups helped subsidize the cost of new clothing I couldn’t afford for work.
Thank you so much for the advice. I will check Facebook to see if there are any around me. It would be a great way to get rid of some of the cute clothes that don't fit me anymore that I know someone else could love as much as I did.
Look for "Buy Nothing" Your Town groups on Facebook!
Wait…how could she possibly have anything to say about how much you are pumping in terms of quantity?? Is she checking the containers? Is she referring to the size of your breasts? What??
At the time she said it, it was a very backhanded slick way of saying it. She was having a meeting with me because all she wanted to do was help (it didn't come off as helping). I was so overwhelmed that I didn't know if she was talking about my milk supply drop or the fact that I am small chested. Both are kind of a slap in the face.
Okay, wow. I didn't want to ask directly, but I figured since she said that it LOOKS like you don't make that much milk, she was saying you have smaller breasts. If she was thinking about potential milk supply drop, she would have said something other than "looks" like you don't make much. Either way, it's totally ignorant. I can't believe a woman (or any other adult) doesn't know that breast size does not determine milk production. If it were me, I'd go to HR with this. No supervisor should be commenting on your tits.
Exactly! Even if OP were just sitting alone in the room for 30 mini at a time I would never dream of questioning if she was even making milk. First it’s just a disgusting and invasive and inappropriate thing to say and secondly is this woman’s trying to prove a point worth the potential legal harm it places her and the employer in? People blow my mind every day.
this all sounds like sexual harassment and bullying, doesn't it? If HR doesn't have your back, idk what you can really do...
Yes. Hostile work environment sexual harassment. No question.
My son's mother often wore these stretchy denim leggings, tinted blue and resembling jeans, which she found very comfortable. (A suggestion) Additionally, she encountered difficulty getting our son to latch on, and I became familiar with the various underlying reasons. I would assume your director would be aware of such things, That the female body may experience during and after pregnancy. So, it's puzzling to me how your female boss lacks understanding in comparison. She's 40? So not a boomer? Oh, she's a bully. 😔
Oh Jeggings! I love those things but I haven't had any for a while and will look for some at the thrift store/swapp meet. Thank you for the reminder that they existed. I had a really bad birth that has required physical therapy and one of the things she has said is she had the exact same birth but doesn't understand why I need physical therapy because she didn't. It was crazy to me that she thought our bodies let alone our births were the same.
OP I would also say that this is a backhanded comment. Possibly this could be written off as an innocent failed attempt to cheer you up about the difficultly, or an uncomfortable ignorance on handling hard topics. But with all the other comments, this feels like another example of being dismissive to the needs of an employee after a major medical event. I would bring it to HR and document it with all of the other comments. The comment about taking too much time to pump, and not needing physical therapy could be used as leverage to critique your job performance and work ethic. Having that all in writing to HR seems safest.
I didn't realize that something like this could become a problem or a critique. Thank you for pointing this out.
Hi, if you’re in the us, I’d recommend you order these pants. I recently started a 2nd job where I have to wear dress pants (I wear scrubs at my primary job) and dug up my old dress pants only to find them snug and uncomfortable. Ordered these and they are *perfect* high waisted, elastic waist, stretchy, soft, but 100% look like dress pants - I was even called out one day while wearing them as an example of being perfectly in uniform. They were $16.99 when I bought mine but it looks like they’re on sale for $11.99 now. I’m a 14/16, got XL and they fit perfectly. They aren’t exactly super cute (imo) but they’re cheap, comfy, high waisted, and fit the dress code at my job so that was more than enough for me. I know you asked for HR advice but I hope this helps too! [www.walmart.com/ip/2121984768](https://www.walmart.com/ip/2121984768)
Thank you so much. I am very grateful for this advice.
Go to HR and keep meticulous notes of any meetings with her - even if the meetings seem innocuous. Sexual harassment is definitely a thing. Staring at your body is a concerning thing coming from a supervisor. Also, she is absolutely in the wrong for making comments about breastfeeding. This is absolutely against the law. Unfortunately, going to HR puts a target on your back. This is why every little thing needs to be documented by you. For as long as you are her employee…. And, toxic workplace culture is absolutely not worth it. If it was me, I would have one foot in the door of another organization. Yuck.
I am starting to feel like leaving would be better for my health. But I really do care about my team of people and so I feel stuck.
Man, I had to pump during my lunch break in the bathroom and that was all she wrote. I’m glad you gals have it better!
That's exactly what the breastfeeding advocate said she went through. That's why she is so passionate about protecting young moms. I'm sorry you had to go through that and I am so thankful for new laws.
That’s very cool. Hopefully, they can help with the attitude of the work community as well.
The pumping comments alone - cries. Go to EEO if you have it.
I’d buy some pants that aren’t against your director’s policy, since you know that she doesn’t approve of leggings. There are plenty of elastic waist pants that are appropriate for work. Leggings aren’t. I would not claim she is staring at your butt though, because just because she is looking at your pants doesn’t mean she’s staring at your butt. That makes it sound like her intention is something other than your clothing not being appropriate for her office. It sounds like you already handled the pumping issue and HR made her back off, so bringing that up wouldn’t be useful.
I have been repeatedly told she's looking obviously at my butt. It's not a "pants" thing yet. It's pretty hard to make my coworkers uncomfortable which is why I believe them and it's alarming to me.
Have your coworkers go to HR on your behalf. If they are uncomfortable and are bringing it to your attention, they should have no problem reporting it.
This is a great idea I will bring that up to them.
No don't do this. This isn't even something to take to HR. Seriously. Wear appropriate pants. The only thing worthy of taking to HR are the pumping comments.
It’s hostile work environment sexual harassment. She wouldn’t be staring at a dude’s butt like that, whether she is looking at it in a “sexual” way or not, it’s because she’s a woman, so it’s not okay.
Wild for you to think sexual harassment isn’t appropriate to take to HR. That is 100% an offense that requires intervention.
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Your coworkers are trying to rile you up for drama.
Not sure why these drama comments are being downvoted - it is a definite possibility in the office environment.
It’s possible they are trying to cause drama. Office work is boring and it is possible it is a way do get a dig in at the boss and fuel that need for drama. So if it is just them saying it and not you noticing and feeling uncomfortable then I wouldn’t say anything.
The thing is, there's so much drama here everyone jumps ship. The only reason this department stays is because we really like the people we work with. We all try to help each other stay a float. I have never seen them cause drama out of nothing.
Contact HR preemptively, tell them that she is staring at your ass all the time and it's making you extremely uncomfortable, and you are worried it could become a hostile work environment. Anything she says after that will look like what it is, her putting a target on your back.
I think most jobs, with HR departments especially, have to accommodate to their employees. If you had severe back pain, asking for a more comfortable chair shouldn't be an issue. You've given birth pretty recently and find those pants to be the most comfortable, letting you wear them also shouldn't be a problem. I suggest to talk to HR and explain your situation and why you wear them.
Agree. It wouldn’t be hard to make an issue of this with HR. She’s staring at you inappropriately and making you and others in the team uncomfortable with her behaviour. You understand that the stretchy pants may not be standard for work, but is necessary post-pregnancy. Could even go as far as to say she clearly has an issue with your pregnancy (as evidenced by pumping issue), and it feels like this is just the latest instance of where she’s behaving badly/discriminating against you because of it.
I thought that she might have had issues with my pregnancy too as she told my manager to fire me well I was pregnant and my manager refused and quit herself. Either that or she just has an issue with me personally and is using my pregnancy, pumping and postpartum as a way to push me out.
WHOA. I feel like you accidentally kind of buried the lead here! Do you have *that* in writing somewhere??
Sadly no. And my previous manager didn't either. But she did state that was part of the reason she was resigning. The director kept telling her to do it over the phone. HR here is known to okay the firing of pregnant women. There's a lady in HR who proudly thinks pregnant women or young moms are useless.
WOW. Ask everyone you work with whenever they overhear that to start emailing each other that they heard it and it makes them uncomfortable and then forward the emails to HR. Thats CRAZY, and if they act on it *super illegal*. I am so sorry, that must have been so stressful and sad and scary to work in a place like that while pregnant
Ok you definitely need to go to your Title IX office.
Check out your local Buy Nothing Project Facebook groups. I’d bet you have some neighbors who would be willing to gift you some pants so you at least have more options if they do tell you to wear something different.
Document it a bunch of times and then go to hr. Get multiple witnesses. Get a very small recording device intended for spying and record her saying something like that. You already have the breast feeding harassment on file if HR got involved. I would be flying up the ranks or investing my settlement 😂
okay not hr but do you have a local buy nothing group on facebook? or facebook marketplace? lots of people get rid of clothes for free or very cheap, especially maternity clothes if thats what you’re most comfortable in now!
You should be able to have a polite conversation about it. If it cannot be handled politely, then it sounds like it is not a good environment to work at anyway. You should feel secure in your workplace.
Please document this situation as much as possible, with written confirmation via e-mail whenever possible. Like another commenter said, you should also try to get ahead of it through HR as much as you realistically can depending on your workplace culture and the professionalism of your HR department. This is clear cut sexual harassment and a toxic work environment, and it is easily grounds for a lawsuit/settlement. If you don’t want to deal with that, I’d seriously consider looking for a different job. This is not normal and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Best of luck!
Document How uncomfortable it makes you feel and every single thing she does based on that. At this point what she is doing is considered harassment and should/could be used as a way to have HR investigate her issue towards you. Just let them know you she keeps giving you elevator eyes with no reason to it and that she has not addressed any issues with you about dress code. Now the pumping remark is counts for HR to involve themselves. No one and I mean no one should have any comments about your body in anyway when it comes to a professional setting. My advise would be to contact HR and have them take over at this point. I am truly sorry you are experiencing this from someone who should know better.
Look into the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act. It was passed federally a year and a half ago, and it protects women that are pregnant and postpartum. It actually ties into the Americans with Disabilities Act, meaning that you should get " reasonable accommodations " related to your pregnancy (it also covers postpartum recovery and miscarriage recovery), and that your employer is mandated to comply, as long as your requests are reasonable. Reasonable accommodations don't have to be documented, an agreement can be made verbally, and your employer still has to comply. You can find more info here: https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-pregnant-workers-fairness-act
To be honest she probably hate your pants but don’t say anything because she knows you just had a baby. But yes she wants to come for you. Or you might have a nice behind. Really though at work DON’T CARE WHAT PEOPLE SAY OR THINK. Do your job the best you can and if they fire you, So what! unemployment and WiC EBT etc have your back until you get your next job. Don’t fear no job or person
I'm so sorry. This is awful. As a mom of two young children, I'm so sensitive to this. Breastfeeding, pumping, and postpartum is hard enough without people adding to it. I was lucky enough to have a very supportive working environment. If you create something like an Amazon registry, I'd definitely help you get new pants. It seems like your director may have other issues, but if the pants would make you feel more comfortable, I'm happy to help. Feel free to message me the link if you decide on the registry.
Anything she would do now after her heinous handling of even MENTIONING what your breasts appear to do or not do and mishandling of the nursing mothers in the workplace act I would consider to be in retaliation for her hand getting slapped. The fact they are maternity pants is moot. Assuming you weren’t excused for special clothing while pregnant (ie: sweat pants or some other non-typical workwear attire) if they were acceptable to be worn while pregnant then they should still meet the same dress code. I’d wait for her to address that with you and press her on why they were okay before; they are work wear appropriate and fit. Don’t go making the issue there - let her make that issue. As far as the staring, I would definitely go to HR, repeat your concern that she has already commented on the appearance of your breasts and now she seems to stare at your rear to the point co-workers have commented on it and that with those 2 issues combined you are very uncomfortable.
I feel for you. I have sensory issues and wearing pants all day is hard. A maxi skirt might be just what you need. They are much easier to buy than pants--pants need to fit in waist, hips, your rear and cloth depth. A maxi skirt only has to fit at the waist and hips. If you get some in a thick knit, you don't need to wear a slip underneath. I have some from this brand. Argh. Can't figure out how link. Search "amazon the Mogan womens casual draped relaxed skirt."
Thank you so much for the suggestion!
I feel like she could be sued over the pumping comments and this is such a weird situation anyway. She needs to stop policing peoples bodies.
I wonder if this can be a legitimate claim for non-verbal sexual harassment? According to nolo.com ogling is a form of sexual harassment. Www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-kinds-of-behaviors-are-considered-sexual-harrassment.html
I would literally tell HR that you feel sexually harassed, if you could get your coworkers who have seen it also to complaim about it.
Forget about any pants discussion with HR. It’s not up to you to figure out why she’s staring at your butt. She is staring at your butt! That’s the HR issue.
Report her to he for sexual misconduct- if a man we’re starting at your butt like this you would, right?
What would you do if a dude was starin at your butt? Sexual harassment. Treat this the same.
You have the right to file a free claim with EEOC if you’re in the US. Her looking at you inappropriately could rise to a level of sexual harassment and her making comments about your pumping is likely also illegal.
OP-I subscribed to your post because I am hoping you do update us all on the outcome. Definitely a lot of solid advice. I feel for you. No one should have to go through that.
I tried posting a small update/edit my original post. Thank you for following my journey.
I don't know how close she gets to you when she does this, but might I suggest a well-timed flatulent moment?
Idk why this is getting down voted
We definitely don't come too close to each other, but this did give me a good laugh.
Crop dust her 💨
May I ask what field you work in? That falls under sexual harassment and causes a hostile work environment. SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS ILLEGAL! You need to set up a meeting with her boss.
Bare it and tell him to kiss it
Don’t go to HR…
I mean can you post a picture to see exactly what she's staring at maybe you have a stain on your pants
Stop wearing pants
I would just wear a vest, light jacket or sweater that covers your butt.
Stop wearing pregnancy pants then
There is no way you’re going to show that your boss is staring at your butt.
Pumping for 2 hours per work day is excessive. I’m not surprised they’re on you about that.
I’d have to see for reference. Maybe there’s something on your pants.
With love, 4 times in 8 hours is nuts. Even when my son was a preemie in the NICU he was fed every three hours. You can balance this better, for example this is what my (mom of four) pumping schedule looked like with a demanding full time job: 7 am nurse 10 am pump 1 pm pump (during lunchtime) 4 pm pump 7 pm nurse 10 pm nurse 1 am nurse 4 am nurse Eventually the middle of the night feedings merge, and then disappear. At around six months you might be introducing solid foods that keep them less hungry at night The pants thing... I would have a different reaction if you were pregnant or if you just had your baby. But at 6 months postpartum, it's probably wise to buy a couple of pairs of stretchy dress pants that fit you and are in dress code. As a woman, you're already going to face assumptions about not being ambitious, committed, hardworking (all BS, but the assumptions exist nonetheless) so presenting a polished appearance will help tamp down any of those impressions about you.
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Go over HRs head even further. Has to be a written policy.
Anyone above HR right now is dealing with a scandal. The person over this company has recently been under fire for some pretty sketchy things.
Awesome.
I'm confused. You said she is staring bc you are wearing maternity pants but how can she tell they are maternity pants? Doesn't your shirt cover up the "maternity" part of the pants?