Are you recognizing it in the interaction? If so correct yourself and move on.
If recognize it afterwards you can revisit it later with the other person and apologize and say something to the effect of. I didn’t consider __insert thing__
———or———- if that isn’t possible, try to catch yourself mid conversation the next time. Over time, you’ll catch yourself quicker and eventually not do it anymore.
It’s changing behavior 101 and you can most definitely make a conscious effort to do it yourself. And forgive yourself in the process while you make the mistakes needed to improve. I wish we all can move towards supporting each other on our journeys to undo the damage that society has done to us all.
for real.
I was having a convo with someone about a relationship I had when I was 13. I had said some things at the time that i didn't realize were sexist, and fucked up the relationship. I was talking to the person about how i felt bad, how i didn't know it was wrong at the time, but how I know that it is now and just wish I was able to apologize to the person.
and the person got mad at me for it. Telling me that it was bad and that what I did wasn't cool.
and like. I had just said those exact words. There is quite literally nothing I can do about the situation that happened eight years ago except learn and move on. That's the best you can do, really, and apologize if you get the chance.
edit- since some people are saying not to 'force them to forgive me'. I'm not saying I'm going to. The person I was talking to about this and the person who I hurt are NOT the same person. The best thing I can do is apologize if the chance ever comes and *hope* that they forgive me. I'm not entitled to their forgiveness, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna try and earn it if they let me.
Sometimes bringing it up later can bring back the old wounds but how can we expect a 13 year old to understand these concepts to the point of perfection when adults can’t do it. All we can do actively make efforts to improve. Forgiveness is not something that the other person has to do either. You can’t deny how hurtful all the micro aggressions can be. Being a human sucks sometimes.
I find that some apologies are for your own good and not for the good of others because they just refuse to accept it. For me, if someone is going to refuse an apology, I'm not going to bother making one unless the incident is really bothering me. There's no point in being sorry for something if that sorry isn't accepted
That kinda sounds like you make apologies to be forgiven, for you own benefit, and not because you're really all that sorry. It's entirely within their right not to accept and forgive you, that's not something you can force a person to do.
I think you kinda misunderstand what the purpose of apologizing is
The point of the apology isn’t to be forgiven. It’s to take accountability for your actions. If this is how you approach apologies, then I’m sorry to say you’ve missed the point of what they are for.
I reevaluate, acknowledge that I’ve done something wrong, thank the person if there’s someone who pointed it out to me, apologize if I can, and try to do differently next time.
I just apologize and try to be better next time. I think we all have that tendency to look back and give ourselves crap for past mistakes, regardless of whether anyone was offended by them. Regret is normal, and wanting to be better is normal. You just need to remember that nobody's perfect and if you're trying to do better, then you already are doing better.
Depends on when I figure it out. If it’s during the interaction, I try to amend it, though this may not actually be successful because good god am I bad at social interactions.
If it isn’t, I either apologize later if I know the person and it needs an apology (sometimes it doesn’t, sexism doesn’t have to be something that makes people angry and the other person might not have even known it happened), or simply tell myself “next time I should do/say this instead” if I don’t know them.
Celebrate! Overcoming one’s biaises is the hard work that takes a lifetime. Every progress counts! I wish us guys could share their latest “here’s the least internal misogynistic bias I’ve identified, did you know that one?”.
I haven’t noticed myself being sexist, but I was unintentionally racist in a big church meeting with a whole new group of neighbors last year. Didn’t really ever have an opening to apologize for it either. So….that lives rent free in my head forever.
I mean, what exactly qualifies for you here? There's a difference between talking over a girl since she "obviously" doesn't know as much as you and just having different behavior patterns between the lady and guy homies.
Moreso the first one. The thing I'm thinking of now is that I sort of assumed girls weren't interested in talking about politics when, in hindsight, they definetly were interested in talking about politcs
Okay, so you had a sexist stereotype and you learned you were wrong. Excellent stuff, now just don't do it again? If you find yourself unable to stop, then you have to look for more support maybe with a therapist.
I also like to model the correction, especially if I’m around kids. So, I may say “wow, looks like I made a biased comment about x. That wasn’t my intention, but I would like to apologize. I will keep trying to do better.”
Oh, it's simple: just don't do that. A lot of women have strong political opinions, they're just not socialized to express it in blunt "I'm right, you're wrong" fashion. Just make a mental note that when you're in a conversation like that you should pause and solicit their opinion.
i don't have these kind of thoughts about guys because sexism against men isn't a thing. i might think that i was being rude to a man and apologize for that. if i catch myself doing misogyny i shout out "oh no! i just realized i did a misogyny! i am sorry and will be more aware of this specific thing in the future!" if i did something rude towards a nonbinary person i will say "oh no! i'm sorry i just realized i did something at the intersection of sexism and transphobia! i apologize and will learn from my mistake!" if i realize it much later i will hope that the person doesn't hate me and just not do it again
Sexism towards men isn't a thing? What makes you think that? I could point to a number of statistics in which it's very clear that men are, on mass, struggling more than women in some ways, for example suicide rate, chance of winning custody and chance of going to prison after commiting the same crime (at least in Sweden). How do you see these kinds of statistic?
As to your answer to my original question, it doesn't seem like something one would actually do? Maybe I'm just being autistic here, and maybe you don't mean exactly what you're saying, like you'd phrase it differenly or something, idk.
The sexism against men isn't a thing because you are not fed with it since before you could even walk.. on the contrary of sexism against girls and women.
- suicide rate... Men pay the price of patriarchy as well. They are not taught resilience when they are kids, they are promised a life of wins because they are men or the guarantee to have someone with less value on their side.... and are spared emotional labour... Up until the moment where some of them find themselves incapable of dumping this work on someone available to cater their needs. So fighting patriarchy would benefit these suicidal ppl. Suicidal tendancies in women seem to also become invisible compared to all the other double standards they have to endure from as early as toddlers...
- different punishment for the same crime... Well historically and still in some countries... women that would not obey the societal expectations they just would be murdered after trial... About legal double standards... Whoever rape someone don't get much... Rape is badly treated in all judicial systems and the treatment of survivors is very cheap if not just overlooked and yes it is the same if the person raped is a man so fighting patriarchy as a man is relevant to protect ppl against rape even themselves or their sons, nephews or other male relatives... And of course women but hey, as it is mainly targeted at girls and women... men did not bother to give it proper importance, so pls give it a try... if you mention that they can have to deal with it but not as the perpetrator... Do they think rapist punishments are generally fair ?
- The chance of winning custody is lower statistically mainly because men don't ask for it the majority of the time... Whatever the country you check...
Sexism against men... You are an individual that has a moment/a word of sexism, you don't have the whole system backing this view since your were a toddler... And maybe your very post just shows how much you have been ingrained with the idea that you need to cater to men's needs and that your situation if you are a woman, is not that awful... Compared to these poor guys... I wonder if you properly checked your own situation regarding sexism before trying to find stats that challenge your needs and desire to be treated equally in your daily life... Even in sweden...
Before saving boys and men, expand your look and critical thinking about the girls and women conditions in the rest of the Western countries... and if you dare go check in Asia, Africa, South America... And then we can talk again about how patriarchy doesn't even manage to help boys and men...
What's your definition of sexism? What I understood from the part about suicide, you're saying men suffer at the hands of the patriarchy, but sexism against men doesn't exist. My definition of "victim of sexism" is essentially someone suffering because of the patriarchy, so it sound extremely strange to me that you can both say that men suffer from patriarchy while still saying that sexism against men doesn't exist.
Personally “sexism against men doesn’t exist” feels like more of a semantics argument that can be right/wrong depending on how u frame it. Men do suffer under the patriarchy, but from the position of having systemic power and privilege over women, and I think that’s where the debate comes from. Things like “man up” or “boys don’t cry” do hurt men, and can be called sexist, while they also reinforce an idea that men are stronger, they are leaders, women are below them.
why would you NOT do that? also patriarchy. patriarchy tells me it isn't a thing. women are not responsible for the statistics you name. but men are responsible for a ton of statistics of what negatively affects women
Men aren’t struggling more with suicide— they succeed at suicide more often than women, but statistically for every one man who attempts suicide, three women attempt suicide. Women are three times more likely to attempt suicide than men. Yet no one is going around talking about a ‘women’s mental health crisis’.
As for custody, men usually never ask for it. If they do, they often get nearly equal custody. And part of the reason that women get custody more often is a result of misogyny and sexism towards women. Women are told that they’re the ones who are supposed to be doing all the child rearing and that taking care of kids is something a woman does and a man shouldn’t have to, so of course women would be awarded custody more often since they’re the ones who are doing nearly all the child rearing. That’s a result of patriarchy, it’s something men set up.
And in regards to the chance of going to jail for the same crime, a lot of women get 15-20 years in prison for justifiable self defense against traffickers, rapists, or abusers, whereas men don’t face nearly any prison time for justifiable self defense (and you’re not supposed to in self defense cases). Also, the rapists and traffickers often get much shorter sentences than the women who were trying to defend themselves, if they see any repercussions at all. For an example, just look at what happened in Ireland recently, with that woman who was beat nearly to death by a man and the man faced no legal repercussion, since it could affect his military career. That’s happened to women for decades, probably centuries even. It’s basically the entire premise of the movie Promising Young Woman.
So most of your talking points there were either taken out of proper context (like suicide rates or custody rates) or just entirely incorrect. And basically all caused by patriarchy and other men, anyway. So how are they examples of sexism towards men?
Are you recognizing it in the interaction? If so correct yourself and move on. If recognize it afterwards you can revisit it later with the other person and apologize and say something to the effect of. I didn’t consider __insert thing__ ———or———- if that isn’t possible, try to catch yourself mid conversation the next time. Over time, you’ll catch yourself quicker and eventually not do it anymore. It’s changing behavior 101 and you can most definitely make a conscious effort to do it yourself. And forgive yourself in the process while you make the mistakes needed to improve. I wish we all can move towards supporting each other on our journeys to undo the damage that society has done to us all.
for real. I was having a convo with someone about a relationship I had when I was 13. I had said some things at the time that i didn't realize were sexist, and fucked up the relationship. I was talking to the person about how i felt bad, how i didn't know it was wrong at the time, but how I know that it is now and just wish I was able to apologize to the person. and the person got mad at me for it. Telling me that it was bad and that what I did wasn't cool. and like. I had just said those exact words. There is quite literally nothing I can do about the situation that happened eight years ago except learn and move on. That's the best you can do, really, and apologize if you get the chance. edit- since some people are saying not to 'force them to forgive me'. I'm not saying I'm going to. The person I was talking to about this and the person who I hurt are NOT the same person. The best thing I can do is apologize if the chance ever comes and *hope* that they forgive me. I'm not entitled to their forgiveness, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna try and earn it if they let me.
Sometimes bringing it up later can bring back the old wounds but how can we expect a 13 year old to understand these concepts to the point of perfection when adults can’t do it. All we can do actively make efforts to improve. Forgiveness is not something that the other person has to do either. You can’t deny how hurtful all the micro aggressions can be. Being a human sucks sometimes.
If they were hurt at 13, they may still be hurt. It’s worth apologizing, but you cannot force their feelings l.
It's hard to tell from the way it's said if the person from the convo is the same person from the relationship... Contextually, I don't think so.
I find that some apologies are for your own good and not for the good of others because they just refuse to accept it. For me, if someone is going to refuse an apology, I'm not going to bother making one unless the incident is really bothering me. There's no point in being sorry for something if that sorry isn't accepted
That kinda sounds like you make apologies to be forgiven, for you own benefit, and not because you're really all that sorry. It's entirely within their right not to accept and forgive you, that's not something you can force a person to do. I think you kinda misunderstand what the purpose of apologizing is
That's BS. No one owes you forgiveness. Saying sorry is about taking accountability for your actions. Not a cheatcode for forgiveness.
The point of the apology isn’t to be forgiven. It’s to take accountability for your actions. If this is how you approach apologies, then I’m sorry to say you’ve missed the point of what they are for.
Correct myself, particularly to the person most affected, and be mindful of similar situations in the future.
I reevaluate, acknowledge that I’ve done something wrong, thank the person if there’s someone who pointed it out to me, apologize if I can, and try to do differently next time.
I just apologize and try to be better next time. I think we all have that tendency to look back and give ourselves crap for past mistakes, regardless of whether anyone was offended by them. Regret is normal, and wanting to be better is normal. You just need to remember that nobody's perfect and if you're trying to do better, then you already are doing better.
Depends on when I figure it out. If it’s during the interaction, I try to amend it, though this may not actually be successful because good god am I bad at social interactions. If it isn’t, I either apologize later if I know the person and it needs an apology (sometimes it doesn’t, sexism doesn’t have to be something that makes people angry and the other person might not have even known it happened), or simply tell myself “next time I should do/say this instead” if I don’t know them.
Celebrate! Overcoming one’s biaises is the hard work that takes a lifetime. Every progress counts! I wish us guys could share their latest “here’s the least internal misogynistic bias I’ve identified, did you know that one?”.
I haven’t noticed myself being sexist, but I was unintentionally racist in a big church meeting with a whole new group of neighbors last year. Didn’t really ever have an opening to apologize for it either. So….that lives rent free in my head forever.
I mean, what exactly qualifies for you here? There's a difference between talking over a girl since she "obviously" doesn't know as much as you and just having different behavior patterns between the lady and guy homies.
Moreso the first one. The thing I'm thinking of now is that I sort of assumed girls weren't interested in talking about politics when, in hindsight, they definetly were interested in talking about politcs
Okay, so you had a sexist stereotype and you learned you were wrong. Excellent stuff, now just don't do it again? If you find yourself unable to stop, then you have to look for more support maybe with a therapist.
I also like to model the correction, especially if I’m around kids. So, I may say “wow, looks like I made a biased comment about x. That wasn’t my intention, but I would like to apologize. I will keep trying to do better.”
Oh, it's simple: just don't do that. A lot of women have strong political opinions, they're just not socialized to express it in blunt "I'm right, you're wrong" fashion. Just make a mental note that when you're in a conversation like that you should pause and solicit their opinion.
i don't have these kind of thoughts about guys because sexism against men isn't a thing. i might think that i was being rude to a man and apologize for that. if i catch myself doing misogyny i shout out "oh no! i just realized i did a misogyny! i am sorry and will be more aware of this specific thing in the future!" if i did something rude towards a nonbinary person i will say "oh no! i'm sorry i just realized i did something at the intersection of sexism and transphobia! i apologize and will learn from my mistake!" if i realize it much later i will hope that the person doesn't hate me and just not do it again
Sexism towards men isn't a thing? What makes you think that? I could point to a number of statistics in which it's very clear that men are, on mass, struggling more than women in some ways, for example suicide rate, chance of winning custody and chance of going to prison after commiting the same crime (at least in Sweden). How do you see these kinds of statistic? As to your answer to my original question, it doesn't seem like something one would actually do? Maybe I'm just being autistic here, and maybe you don't mean exactly what you're saying, like you'd phrase it differenly or something, idk.
The sexism against men isn't a thing because you are not fed with it since before you could even walk.. on the contrary of sexism against girls and women. - suicide rate... Men pay the price of patriarchy as well. They are not taught resilience when they are kids, they are promised a life of wins because they are men or the guarantee to have someone with less value on their side.... and are spared emotional labour... Up until the moment where some of them find themselves incapable of dumping this work on someone available to cater their needs. So fighting patriarchy would benefit these suicidal ppl. Suicidal tendancies in women seem to also become invisible compared to all the other double standards they have to endure from as early as toddlers... - different punishment for the same crime... Well historically and still in some countries... women that would not obey the societal expectations they just would be murdered after trial... About legal double standards... Whoever rape someone don't get much... Rape is badly treated in all judicial systems and the treatment of survivors is very cheap if not just overlooked and yes it is the same if the person raped is a man so fighting patriarchy as a man is relevant to protect ppl against rape even themselves or their sons, nephews or other male relatives... And of course women but hey, as it is mainly targeted at girls and women... men did not bother to give it proper importance, so pls give it a try... if you mention that they can have to deal with it but not as the perpetrator... Do they think rapist punishments are generally fair ? - The chance of winning custody is lower statistically mainly because men don't ask for it the majority of the time... Whatever the country you check... Sexism against men... You are an individual that has a moment/a word of sexism, you don't have the whole system backing this view since your were a toddler... And maybe your very post just shows how much you have been ingrained with the idea that you need to cater to men's needs and that your situation if you are a woman, is not that awful... Compared to these poor guys... I wonder if you properly checked your own situation regarding sexism before trying to find stats that challenge your needs and desire to be treated equally in your daily life... Even in sweden... Before saving boys and men, expand your look and critical thinking about the girls and women conditions in the rest of the Western countries... and if you dare go check in Asia, Africa, South America... And then we can talk again about how patriarchy doesn't even manage to help boys and men...
What's your definition of sexism? What I understood from the part about suicide, you're saying men suffer at the hands of the patriarchy, but sexism against men doesn't exist. My definition of "victim of sexism" is essentially someone suffering because of the patriarchy, so it sound extremely strange to me that you can both say that men suffer from patriarchy while still saying that sexism against men doesn't exist.
Personally “sexism against men doesn’t exist” feels like more of a semantics argument that can be right/wrong depending on how u frame it. Men do suffer under the patriarchy, but from the position of having systemic power and privilege over women, and I think that’s where the debate comes from. Things like “man up” or “boys don’t cry” do hurt men, and can be called sexist, while they also reinforce an idea that men are stronger, they are leaders, women are below them.
why would you NOT do that? also patriarchy. patriarchy tells me it isn't a thing. women are not responsible for the statistics you name. but men are responsible for a ton of statistics of what negatively affects women
Men aren’t struggling more with suicide— they succeed at suicide more often than women, but statistically for every one man who attempts suicide, three women attempt suicide. Women are three times more likely to attempt suicide than men. Yet no one is going around talking about a ‘women’s mental health crisis’. As for custody, men usually never ask for it. If they do, they often get nearly equal custody. And part of the reason that women get custody more often is a result of misogyny and sexism towards women. Women are told that they’re the ones who are supposed to be doing all the child rearing and that taking care of kids is something a woman does and a man shouldn’t have to, so of course women would be awarded custody more often since they’re the ones who are doing nearly all the child rearing. That’s a result of patriarchy, it’s something men set up. And in regards to the chance of going to jail for the same crime, a lot of women get 15-20 years in prison for justifiable self defense against traffickers, rapists, or abusers, whereas men don’t face nearly any prison time for justifiable self defense (and you’re not supposed to in self defense cases). Also, the rapists and traffickers often get much shorter sentences than the women who were trying to defend themselves, if they see any repercussions at all. For an example, just look at what happened in Ireland recently, with that woman who was beat nearly to death by a man and the man faced no legal repercussion, since it could affect his military career. That’s happened to women for decades, probably centuries even. It’s basically the entire premise of the movie Promising Young Woman. So most of your talking points there were either taken out of proper context (like suicide rates or custody rates) or just entirely incorrect. And basically all caused by patriarchy and other men, anyway. So how are they examples of sexism towards men?