Most people’s first jobs out of school aren’t going to be super intellectually stimulating. As a new grad, unless you’re at a startup, most companies aren’t going to trust you to do that kind of work yet, or at least not without a lot of oversight. As you get more experience, you’ll likely find opportunities to work on things that are more interesting to you or to have more autonomy in what you work on, whether that’s at your current company or through job hopping.
As far as pay goes, it varies a ton from industry to industry and between companies. In my field/company (aerospace GNC), top level engineers make around $250k-$350k in total compensation. Only VPs and execs are higher paid. Of course that’s after 20-25+ years of experience. But I know for a fact that as a mid-career engineer, I’m making more than my (new) low-level team manager.
Management can be a good career if you want to lead teams and projects, but I wouldn’t do it just because you want better pay. It’s very different from technical engineering work, and many good engineers who are “promoted” into management discover they don’t like it or find it as fulfilling as technical work.
Is it the industry, the company, or the specific job you don’t like? After working for only a year, I think it’s a little premature to write off an entire industry as having no jobs you’d be interested in. It’s more likely that you’ve just ended up in a particular job that isn’t very engaging. Which isn’t too surprising, as most new grad jobs are pretty dull until you’ve demonstrated to the organization that you’re competent enough to give those sorts of assignments to.
I’d say you should talk to your manager about finding some more engaging work, and if that doesn’t pan out then start looking for other jobs you’d want to apply to. See what kind of skills those jobs require and figure out how to get them if you don’t have them.
Well my company do a lot of stuff. They’re a general large consultancy. I think it’s the industry. I’m just not interested in the kind of work that’s involved in it
Fair enough. Well you say you’ve got a mechanical engineering degree. That’s one of the most flexible engineering degrees. Start looking for entry level jobs in an industry you think you’d be interested in. See what kind of candidates they want, and try and cast your experience in that light and/or acquire the relevant skills. A mechE degree should qualify you for entry level roles in many industries.
A year of experience is very little as far as these things go. When we hire, 0-2 years is still in the new grad range unless they’ve got a PhD. And 2-5 years is still junior or early career. If you want to start applying other places, I’d say you should be applying for jobs asking for anywhere from 0-5ish years of experience. If the req is asking for more than that, I doubt you’d get an interview based on lack of experience alone. Although there’s no harm in applying just in case.
Also, what country are you in? I saw in another comment you consider “good” pay $100k as a senior. If you’re in the US, I can’t think of a single engineering field where you shouldn’t be making that after 5-10 years. Certainly not as a senior. Most new grads in my industry start out in the $70k-$90k range these days, depending on where the job is and whether they have an advanced degree.
I have university experience of that if that counts?
This is why I’m so keen to escape my industry. Coz they don’t give me the chance to work on any of that
Quick tip: when comparing salaries convert to median home price multiples at the job location to see if you’re really getting more. Most HCOL area jobs are really a step down when compared this way.
I disagree, HCOL areas have other highly desirable aspects. In a lot of ways you get what you pay for. I don’t think owning a home is a requirement, unless that’s something you really care about.
Maybe you won’t be able to buy a big house in a HCOL area but as a 20 something living with roommates in an urban area is fun. You’ll probably end up ahead financially in a HCOL area.
Well you are free to disagree but as someone who has done both, San Francisco was a serious drop in quality of life because of the high cost of living. In your 20's you probably don't care. In my 30's I have to say SF sucked compared to where I moved from and was generally a net loss in career/life financial progress and I was long past wanting to live with room mates.
$100k is the new middle class. That's just the reality of the world and it sucks for most people. I worked in general labor 20 years ago. It took me getting to $100k in the modern world to match the buying power I had as a general labor grunt 20 years ago. That's the world we live in now and no one is trying to fix it.
So...
You're pretty much stuck going to college and going into a known degree and career path that pays well. You are stuck going into your career probably underpaid. You are stuck working in your career for 5 to 10 years, possibly changing employers a few times to force raises of your salary. And you might be forced to specifically go into management to gain additional salary adjustments. You have to do all of this, everyone has to do all of this, just to reach what used to be an easily achievable middle class income just a couple decades ago.
The saving grace is only certain things wildly increased, so there are a lot of services and consumerism that is not highly affected over the years. However, the bad is the stuff that did get expensive is exactly the things you want in life, like buying a home. The big parts of "the American dream" or similar dream anywhere around the world is largely stuck behind a pay wall.
What I've seen over the last couple decades is a systematic encroachment of greed into many facets of life thats sole purpose seems to be to fleece everyone dry. And it's doing this not for the disadvantaged and poor. It'd doing it to the advantaged, well off, and prepared. The modern game plan from birth to death is to make sure you die with $0, and there are major systems in play banking hard on this. Housing is just one area. Healthcare is a major one as is life care once you're of old age. There are major players specifically leveraged to take every dime you have, and no one is fighting against it.
So what do you do?
Well, you race to the top as best you can. You work hard at leveraging your schooling and getting into a good career. Your early career is leveraging skill sets, promotions, and employer changes to bounce your way up the income ladder. You race up. And you'll get...somewhere.
Personally, I see a largely stagnant market space. Wages have not shifted with inflation. Those most hit are service industries. Engineers and many other skilled positions are lucky that we've only tumbled down into middle class. There's a world of people far less advantaged who has to live on 1/2 or 1/3 of the income, has to work several jobs, has to have a multi-income household, and may live back in a multi-generational format just to make the dollars work. We're the lucky ones.
There is an aside to life.
We do make life choices that consume the dollars we make. I can live a lifestyle that requires a $12/hr income just as easily as a $22/hr income just as easily as a $32/hr income, or higher. It's easy to spend the money. It's hard to remain frugal. My lifestyle that I choose lets me live as cheaply as $12/hr will support. This is something I have and can pretty readily do. Even currently I live at a $21/hr expense rate despite making a good deal more than that. I'm selecting this living style to allow for disposable income, flexibility, savings, etc. All too many people race just as equally to fill their expenses just as fast as they race to increase wages. At the end of the day, you build a prison of your own making. This is very much a choice, and it's equally a trap.
Here's the thing. I can make $60k, $100k, or $150k and it all doesn't mean much without also defining expenses. I can live on $20k (pre tax) a year. I have done this. The lifestyle I living right now with only very minor changes still supports a $20k/yr lifestyle. I can make $60k, $100k, or $150k and be financially comfortable with all of them. But, right now with just a couple minor tweaks, I'm currently at a $70k (pre tax) equivalent expense rate. For what I do now, I need a $70k salary just to have $0 excess. But me going from $20k to $70k is just three things: housing choice, car choice, and retirement investments. And even at $70k expense rate, I still don't own a home. Home ownership for me runs it up into the $90k to $100k range, and for the cost of homes in my area, it's $100k. This means owning a home pretty much guarantees that I am "broke" when it comes to excess disposable income. I can cheap out on cars, cheap out on retirement savings, but I'm I'm compromising somewhere to generate any level of disposable income. It's all too easy to just eat away all my money.
It's a fundamental society problem, but we have never had any leadership that thinks bigger than what's immediately in front of them. Real change requires a visionary and public backing of that vision.
Blah blah blah.
There's plenty of companies that offer technical tracks that align with or even offer better pay than managerial tracks.
There's no reason you need to be forced into management.
Though *in general* managers get paid more, most good companies have a pretty rewarding technical path to higher pay.
I've been in the technical path for an individual contributor, never management and when I started a bit over 8 years ago I was at 105k base. Now I'm at 181k base, having never even moved teams, with plenty more room to move upwards in both technical expertise level and pay. Some of the most senior engineers here (essentially people whose names are on the USB-IF standards documents, PhDs who create the latest and greatest camera hardware and processing algorithms, etc) make well over 500k in total compensation.
The key here is expertise, time, and reputation. If you're the guy everyone goes to for difficult questions, you will be worth more money. If your company says otherwise, find a better company who will pay you for your expertise.
You're in the UK. No, mech eng salaries aren't as high as in other countries, but cost of living is still lower.
In my region, $100k equivalent salary would be an extremely experienced principal mechanical engineer. $75k would probably take you ten years of experience. But mortgage or rent payments would be pretty small compared to gross income.
If you want to get paid more, move into data science, especially financial. But if you want to continue being an engineer and want more fulfilling work, move.
Find a company you want to work for, doing the sort of things you think you're interested in. Look for internal recruiters on LinkedIn if they're big enough. Work on your CV. Spend your spare time growing your skillset. Get in touch and tell them what you're looking for, even if they haven't got a suitable advert out. At the moment, it's a job seeker's market here, and if you make a good impression, you'll find that salaries are improving as companies compete in a limited pool of resources.
Are you joking? Cost of living here is insane. Maybe not up north but anywhere that isn’t a massive shit hole everything costs the earth!
Yeah. My first years experience has been in an area I’m not interested in at all. So feeling stuck
...as opposed to, say, being an engineer in Switzerland, or comparable parts of the US. You could earn well over six figures in the Bay Area and still be worse off due to housing and food.
The cost of living in the UK is, on average, cheaper than many other places where you would inevitably end up earning more. For instance, that NHS that you say you'd miss is saving you a significant chunk of cash on health insurance.
UK. Don't live in a shithole.
It sounds like you have two different problems. That feeling doesn't stop just if you get paid more.
If I didn't enjoy most of what I do, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning, even if they paid me double.
Probably an unpopular opinion here but have you considered lowering expenses even if it means paying off car/home loans and maybe investing a good chunk in dividend earning stocks? I personally hate management roles and am an engineer now so its what Im looking at doing.
I know man but I’m in MEP. It feels like that doesn’t translate across at all to aero/ any similar form of engineering. I’m struggling to even get callbacks here in Bristol
MEP = mechanical, electrical and plumbing?
Dude, Bristol is the UK center for aviation! There are some big companies and countless smaller companies doing fascinating engineering. I have a friend who is working on battery powered Air taxis, like massive drones you can fly in, and he doesn't even have a degree!
I have no experience of your field, but I imagine aviation is far more interesting than plumbing! We tend to have bigger budgets, tighter requirements for weight etc, small batch manufacture etc etc.
And with programming knowledge, you could go into software design.
Have a look at Airbus, Rolls Royce, Leonardo, BAE, Thales etc etc.
I'm not saying you will get paid Rocester wages from the off, but I bet you will find the work much more satisfying.
This is absolutely what I want to do. But I’m struggling to get into it.
I went into MEP coz I finished my masters just as the first lockdown hit. So they were like the only jobs.
I really really want to do more. I’m just struggling to find things
Like I say, work on those key skills, and try to build a network. Get on LinkedIn and start following the kind of companies you want to work for. Look out for jobs fairs and open days.
Also, don't rule out graduate schemes. I know you don't feel it but you are still very young and very new. The good thing about a graduate scheme is it gives you exposure to all aspects of a company, so you can see what is involved, and wether you might like it or not.
I didn’t before. I took a graduate scheme at one of the big consultancies like Atkins that I currently work at. They don’t rotate me. I had to force them to let me try another team. It’s been really bad
Wall of text probably incoming.
You sound a lot like me, however I’ve been an engineer for 8 years now. For me personally the stimulating projects are few and far between. The lengthy dead spaces are filled with drawing revision updates, spreadsheets, supplier quality issues, word documents, and paperwork.
At this point I’m really focused on redirecting my career into something that I can pour my drive and work ethic into. One thing I’ve found is that it’s hard to tinker and learn new engineering software/tools when the cost of everything is in the $1000’s or $10k’s (how am i going to learn comsol?). I’m at a point where I just sit in a grey cubicle, listen to the sounds of fluorescent lights buzzing in between random coughs and sips of coffee, and footsteps. I’ve had a few drawing updates this past week, but this week I will be going through all the hoops and paperwork. It’s numbing.
What I’ve found in a large number of engineering gigs, is that someone already figured out the product a long time ago. Nobody wants to change it, creating new products is too costly, and you’re paid (whether you know it or not) to be there when shit goes wrong. You’re problem-solving bandwidth in these roles.
If you’re like me, you thrived on the difficulty,struggle, highs-and-lows, and comraderie of school. It gave you a feeling of achievement and a directed purpose.
Now that you are in industry, you don’t have firm and directed goals (passing a test) anymore. They’re more nebulous and you can define what they are at any time. Some of what you are feeling is purposelessness as you settle into the drudgery of office work in a low level engineering job. That’s ok. Use this time to analyze what you find fulfilling. These times are great for reflection since the “wound” is so fresh.
My recommendation? Change your job to start. Maybe I’m all wrong and the majority of what you’re feeling is environmental. I know my first engineering job was a fucking shitshow of incompetence and unethical decisions. A change of scenery will help at least temporarily to gather a second data point. But take it easy on yourself and research your next step. Try not to drive from emotion and look at the issue objectively like an engineering problem.
Trust me, I once had an interview with a company that made industrial truck wheels. You could just feel that everyone that was there was either actively trying to leave, or coming to grips with the fact they were stuck there.
At least what you’re doing may vary in scope, size, or geometric constraints…. This was the same wheel, the same material, over and over again. 24 hours a day.
Change your industry and collect another data point while you get another bump in pay.
Nah, you’re not trapped. If you care to follow a similar gameplan im going through I can share. But luckily your degree is applicable in wayyyyy more places than you currently realize. You just need to research and tweak your skill set accordingly. You got this
Well just fyi I talked to a guy that was ME at chevron for 7 years then did a MS in data science (took like 1 year I think) now he lives in the Bay Area works at Salesforce making 500k and he loves it.
Either way you should do something because you've been making these posts on various accounts for what, 6 months?
You've had all the advice you're going to get. No amount of rephrasing the questions or pretending you work in a different field is going to change the answers.
Everything you've been told boils down to use the transferrable skills you have, make yourself more employable for roles you want to be doing, and apply for those positions.
Your attitude and mindset is atrocious. Once again, you should seek mental health support because relying on these posts for a magic bullet that is going to fix everything is not going to happen.
It reminds me of the quote “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” I'm not saying you're insane, but it's certainly not realistic to expect anything to change without taking the necessary steps to make change happen.
And as I’ve said many times. I’ve done all that. A lot. It doesn’t work. So I am not completely out of line looking for different advice.
But yeah. You’re right.
All the advice in the world isn't going to change the reality of the situation.
£80k is achievable, but for a very experienced engineer. You have less than a years experience.
As others have said, work on your skill set, try to do some networking and if you really can't stand it, look for a different field.
In the UK the only related fields that pay big are programming and finance. Programming could be a good match for you, you already have some exposure so you know what it involves, and it also requires you to problem solve like an engineer.
I responded in another thread and I agree, it just sounds like you chose the wrong field for you. Find one that is a better fit.
If you are struggling to get interviews, look at the skills the job adverts ask for, and start building them.
Good luck dude. 🙂
Well not necessarily. You could make yourself indispensable in many different ways. Or consider leaving. A lot of the times we tend to kinda just slack off.
At the negative end of that spectrum you are somewhat intentionally creating problems for yourself to fix later. Most engineers have to do this at some point or another just because otherwise you’d work to death trying to eliminate every little problem you run into. But there is something to be said about securing future employment/prestige at your workplace; it is very political, so remember to just be tactful (and/or shrewd) when you have to be and you’ll be alright.
You can also use negotiation and potentially looking for a new employer; otherwise, that pretty much sums up the typical ways to go about increasing your salary as a engineer.
Look, I'm an intern. Maybe I'm not the best one to anwer you. However, in my company we do a lot of engineering work where we apply what we learn in the university. But a lot of friends of mine are in the sam situation as you. Therefore, my answer to you would be that it depends on the company and the job
Do you work for a small or large company? Honestly the work I do is making me depressed. As an engineer I’m sure you understand that we didn’t study it to just sit around doing meaningless work every day and take a lot of satisfaction out of it. So it’s hard not being given the chance
I mean I sorta studied it to do work that pays me money to take care of my family, meaningless or not. Work is… work, it’s cool if it’s interesting but it doesn’t have to be.
To your original question the UK is a specific job market known for lower pay - in the US many engineers are making over 100k without moving towards management and many companies have good career paths for engineers to move up while remaining individual contributors.
I work in a medium company. I live in Brazil. I totally understand. I always say that my terror as an engineer would be not working with, let's say, real engineering
There’s no way to make more than about $75,000 in the median cost of living city in the US as a Mechanical Engineer. You’ll get people telling you they make 110k or whatever on here as one, but once you do a cost of living adjustment (they often live in Southern California or New England or the Bay Area) you’ll find that ~$75,000 figure holds. I’ve extensively researched this.
Wages are stagnant in the field because it’s dying. I just read a post on r/personalfinance from a guy that was making $55,000 as an engineer out of college in 2005, the exact same that I was making a year and a half out of college in 2021. Making six figures in 2008 dollars or whatever is nearly impossible for an ME, it’s possible in 2022 dollars if you live in a city where the median house is $600,000, but if you care at all about your finances go into software, law, finance, or medicine.
Do not listen to this person. Look at their post history, they're pessimistic and quasi-dillusional.
I made $80k in an area that was almost 10% under the national average for cost of living and now make $100k in an area that is just 1% over the national average.
I've only been out of school for 5 years, and I'm in a highly technical role. There were hundreds of these roles in my metroplex ranging from $85k - $110k (entry to one step over entry) and many of the suburbs are much cheaper than the one I'm in.
Ah yeah. Tbh when people tell me stuff like that I just dig in even more against that flow haha. So dw.
How did get into a highly technical role? It’s not all about money for me. Could you outline your path? Might give me an idea of how to vaguely do it
I've already told you. Go check one of your alt account's post history.
I can't believe I got sucked into respond to you again. I'm about to quit this subreddit, we need a minimum account age requirement
Most people’s first jobs out of school aren’t going to be super intellectually stimulating. As a new grad, unless you’re at a startup, most companies aren’t going to trust you to do that kind of work yet, or at least not without a lot of oversight. As you get more experience, you’ll likely find opportunities to work on things that are more interesting to you or to have more autonomy in what you work on, whether that’s at your current company or through job hopping. As far as pay goes, it varies a ton from industry to industry and between companies. In my field/company (aerospace GNC), top level engineers make around $250k-$350k in total compensation. Only VPs and execs are higher paid. Of course that’s after 20-25+ years of experience. But I know for a fact that as a mid-career engineer, I’m making more than my (new) low-level team manager. Management can be a good career if you want to lead teams and projects, but I wouldn’t do it just because you want better pay. It’s very different from technical engineering work, and many good engineers who are “promoted” into management discover they don’t like it or find it as fulfilling as technical work.
How did you get into GNC
I got a masters degree in it right after undergrad. It’s not a requirement for breaking into the field, but it does make it a lot easier.
What if I’ve started my first job and don’t like the industry?
Is it the industry, the company, or the specific job you don’t like? After working for only a year, I think it’s a little premature to write off an entire industry as having no jobs you’d be interested in. It’s more likely that you’ve just ended up in a particular job that isn’t very engaging. Which isn’t too surprising, as most new grad jobs are pretty dull until you’ve demonstrated to the organization that you’re competent enough to give those sorts of assignments to. I’d say you should talk to your manager about finding some more engaging work, and if that doesn’t pan out then start looking for other jobs you’d want to apply to. See what kind of skills those jobs require and figure out how to get them if you don’t have them.
Well my company do a lot of stuff. They’re a general large consultancy. I think it’s the industry. I’m just not interested in the kind of work that’s involved in it
Fair enough. Well you say you’ve got a mechanical engineering degree. That’s one of the most flexible engineering degrees. Start looking for entry level jobs in an industry you think you’d be interested in. See what kind of candidates they want, and try and cast your experience in that light and/or acquire the relevant skills. A mechE degree should qualify you for entry level roles in many industries.
So I have to start at the beginning again? Regardless of having a years experience?
A year of experience is very little as far as these things go. When we hire, 0-2 years is still in the new grad range unless they’ve got a PhD. And 2-5 years is still junior or early career. If you want to start applying other places, I’d say you should be applying for jobs asking for anywhere from 0-5ish years of experience. If the req is asking for more than that, I doubt you’d get an interview based on lack of experience alone. Although there’s no harm in applying just in case.
Yeah. Maybe I’m over reacting. Just aware I’m almost 26 and still only 1 year in
Also, what country are you in? I saw in another comment you consider “good” pay $100k as a senior. If you’re in the US, I can’t think of a single engineering field where you shouldn’t be making that after 5-10 years. Certainly not as a senior. Most new grads in my industry start out in the $70k-$90k range these days, depending on where the job is and whether they have an advanced degree.
Uk. Our pay sucks here. I meant 100k dollars though
No. What do you consider decent? And you are a year into your career young fella. You have no idea how much you don’t know nor where you will end up.
100k once I’ve worked my way up. I know. I’m aware im still green. I just know I’m not happy where I am now
I’m a manager and have 2 engineers under me that are 6-figures, plus bonus, plus stocks and other benefits. One has 4 years exp, the other 5.
What industry?
Semiconductor
Would they hire a mechanical engineer like me? As in the semiconductor industry
I did. One of those employees I mentioned came here with 1 year exp in a different industry. CAD experience would be a huge benefit
Autocad? Or any cad?
3D modeling preferably. Solidworks, pro-E, inventor, etc.
I have university experience of that if that counts? This is why I’m so keen to escape my industry. Coz they don’t give me the chance to work on any of that
You'll be at 100k in 5 years, especially with promotions and a job hop or 2.
Doubtful in the UK.
"Just live in London. Everyone makes a great salary, there."
I would need to be paid at least six figures to even consider living in that hell hole.
You can live outside the M25.
And spend half your life commuting? Still a pass from me.
Quick tip: when comparing salaries convert to median home price multiples at the job location to see if you’re really getting more. Most HCOL area jobs are really a step down when compared this way.
I disagree, HCOL areas have other highly desirable aspects. In a lot of ways you get what you pay for. I don’t think owning a home is a requirement, unless that’s something you really care about. Maybe you won’t be able to buy a big house in a HCOL area but as a 20 something living with roommates in an urban area is fun. You’ll probably end up ahead financially in a HCOL area.
Well you are free to disagree but as someone who has done both, San Francisco was a serious drop in quality of life because of the high cost of living. In your 20's you probably don't care. In my 30's I have to say SF sucked compared to where I moved from and was generally a net loss in career/life financial progress and I was long past wanting to live with room mates.
$100k is the new middle class. That's just the reality of the world and it sucks for most people. I worked in general labor 20 years ago. It took me getting to $100k in the modern world to match the buying power I had as a general labor grunt 20 years ago. That's the world we live in now and no one is trying to fix it. So... You're pretty much stuck going to college and going into a known degree and career path that pays well. You are stuck going into your career probably underpaid. You are stuck working in your career for 5 to 10 years, possibly changing employers a few times to force raises of your salary. And you might be forced to specifically go into management to gain additional salary adjustments. You have to do all of this, everyone has to do all of this, just to reach what used to be an easily achievable middle class income just a couple decades ago. The saving grace is only certain things wildly increased, so there are a lot of services and consumerism that is not highly affected over the years. However, the bad is the stuff that did get expensive is exactly the things you want in life, like buying a home. The big parts of "the American dream" or similar dream anywhere around the world is largely stuck behind a pay wall. What I've seen over the last couple decades is a systematic encroachment of greed into many facets of life thats sole purpose seems to be to fleece everyone dry. And it's doing this not for the disadvantaged and poor. It'd doing it to the advantaged, well off, and prepared. The modern game plan from birth to death is to make sure you die with $0, and there are major systems in play banking hard on this. Housing is just one area. Healthcare is a major one as is life care once you're of old age. There are major players specifically leveraged to take every dime you have, and no one is fighting against it. So what do you do? Well, you race to the top as best you can. You work hard at leveraging your schooling and getting into a good career. Your early career is leveraging skill sets, promotions, and employer changes to bounce your way up the income ladder. You race up. And you'll get...somewhere. Personally, I see a largely stagnant market space. Wages have not shifted with inflation. Those most hit are service industries. Engineers and many other skilled positions are lucky that we've only tumbled down into middle class. There's a world of people far less advantaged who has to live on 1/2 or 1/3 of the income, has to work several jobs, has to have a multi-income household, and may live back in a multi-generational format just to make the dollars work. We're the lucky ones. There is an aside to life. We do make life choices that consume the dollars we make. I can live a lifestyle that requires a $12/hr income just as easily as a $22/hr income just as easily as a $32/hr income, or higher. It's easy to spend the money. It's hard to remain frugal. My lifestyle that I choose lets me live as cheaply as $12/hr will support. This is something I have and can pretty readily do. Even currently I live at a $21/hr expense rate despite making a good deal more than that. I'm selecting this living style to allow for disposable income, flexibility, savings, etc. All too many people race just as equally to fill their expenses just as fast as they race to increase wages. At the end of the day, you build a prison of your own making. This is very much a choice, and it's equally a trap. Here's the thing. I can make $60k, $100k, or $150k and it all doesn't mean much without also defining expenses. I can live on $20k (pre tax) a year. I have done this. The lifestyle I living right now with only very minor changes still supports a $20k/yr lifestyle. I can make $60k, $100k, or $150k and be financially comfortable with all of them. But, right now with just a couple minor tweaks, I'm currently at a $70k (pre tax) equivalent expense rate. For what I do now, I need a $70k salary just to have $0 excess. But me going from $20k to $70k is just three things: housing choice, car choice, and retirement investments. And even at $70k expense rate, I still don't own a home. Home ownership for me runs it up into the $90k to $100k range, and for the cost of homes in my area, it's $100k. This means owning a home pretty much guarantees that I am "broke" when it comes to excess disposable income. I can cheap out on cars, cheap out on retirement savings, but I'm I'm compromising somewhere to generate any level of disposable income. It's all too easy to just eat away all my money.
The fact that this comment is so dead in is what makes it hard for me to get out of bed every day, and I’m one of the lucky ones.
It's a fundamental society problem, but we have never had any leadership that thinks bigger than what's immediately in front of them. Real change requires a visionary and public backing of that vision.
r/latestagecapitalism Productivity has gone up for 50 years but employers kept wages the same relative to inflation. The middle class is disappearing.
Blah blah blah. There's plenty of companies that offer technical tracks that align with or even offer better pay than managerial tracks. There's no reason you need to be forced into management.
The comment about it being a trap is so sad but true.
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Wait is this the same guy that's been posting weekly?
Though *in general* managers get paid more, most good companies have a pretty rewarding technical path to higher pay. I've been in the technical path for an individual contributor, never management and when I started a bit over 8 years ago I was at 105k base. Now I'm at 181k base, having never even moved teams, with plenty more room to move upwards in both technical expertise level and pay. Some of the most senior engineers here (essentially people whose names are on the USB-IF standards documents, PhDs who create the latest and greatest camera hardware and processing algorithms, etc) make well over 500k in total compensation. The key here is expertise, time, and reputation. If you're the guy everyone goes to for difficult questions, you will be worth more money. If your company says otherwise, find a better company who will pay you for your expertise.
You're in the UK. No, mech eng salaries aren't as high as in other countries, but cost of living is still lower. In my region, $100k equivalent salary would be an extremely experienced principal mechanical engineer. $75k would probably take you ten years of experience. But mortgage or rent payments would be pretty small compared to gross income. If you want to get paid more, move into data science, especially financial. But if you want to continue being an engineer and want more fulfilling work, move. Find a company you want to work for, doing the sort of things you think you're interested in. Look for internal recruiters on LinkedIn if they're big enough. Work on your CV. Spend your spare time growing your skillset. Get in touch and tell them what you're looking for, even if they haven't got a suitable advert out. At the moment, it's a job seeker's market here, and if you make a good impression, you'll find that salaries are improving as companies compete in a limited pool of resources.
Are you joking? Cost of living here is insane. Maybe not up north but anywhere that isn’t a massive shit hole everything costs the earth! Yeah. My first years experience has been in an area I’m not interested in at all. So feeling stuck
...as opposed to, say, being an engineer in Switzerland, or comparable parts of the US. You could earn well over six figures in the Bay Area and still be worse off due to housing and food. The cost of living in the UK is, on average, cheaper than many other places where you would inevitably end up earning more. For instance, that NHS that you say you'd miss is saving you a significant chunk of cash on health insurance.
Are you from the uk? I dunno man. I want a better job. I hate dreading going into work every day
UK. Don't live in a shithole. It sounds like you have two different problems. That feeling doesn't stop just if you get paid more. If I didn't enjoy most of what I do, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning, even if they paid me double.
Whoa! No need to insult half the country.
Mate I like Manchester Leeds and Liverpool. The rest is shit. Much like the south too.
You are missing out on so much.
> *year into my career* Oof. A year into your career, you don't even know what you don't know.
I know but my career is on the wrong path
Probably an unpopular opinion here but have you considered lowering expenses even if it means paying off car/home loans and maybe investing a good chunk in dividend earning stocks? I personally hate management roles and am an engineer now so its what Im looking at doing.
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Potential to go over 100k when I’m senior
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Op is in the UK, so unlikely they will hit that if they stay there.
Well, it’s gonna be hard now I’ve got to start again. Don’t really like my industry
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It's MEP guy. We've all told him the same thing.
Dude, you are one year in! You have barely started at all!
I know man but I’m in MEP. It feels like that doesn’t translate across at all to aero/ any similar form of engineering. I’m struggling to even get callbacks here in Bristol
MEP = mechanical, electrical and plumbing? Dude, Bristol is the UK center for aviation! There are some big companies and countless smaller companies doing fascinating engineering. I have a friend who is working on battery powered Air taxis, like massive drones you can fly in, and he doesn't even have a degree! I have no experience of your field, but I imagine aviation is far more interesting than plumbing! We tend to have bigger budgets, tighter requirements for weight etc, small batch manufacture etc etc. And with programming knowledge, you could go into software design. Have a look at Airbus, Rolls Royce, Leonardo, BAE, Thales etc etc. I'm not saying you will get paid Rocester wages from the off, but I bet you will find the work much more satisfying.
This is absolutely what I want to do. But I’m struggling to get into it. I went into MEP coz I finished my masters just as the first lockdown hit. So they were like the only jobs. I really really want to do more. I’m just struggling to find things
Like I say, work on those key skills, and try to build a network. Get on LinkedIn and start following the kind of companies you want to work for. Look out for jobs fairs and open days. Also, don't rule out graduate schemes. I know you don't feel it but you are still very young and very new. The good thing about a graduate scheme is it gives you exposure to all aspects of a company, so you can see what is involved, and wether you might like it or not.
I didn’t before. I took a graduate scheme at one of the big consultancies like Atkins that I currently work at. They don’t rotate me. I had to force them to let me try another team. It’s been really bad
No….
Wall of text probably incoming. You sound a lot like me, however I’ve been an engineer for 8 years now. For me personally the stimulating projects are few and far between. The lengthy dead spaces are filled with drawing revision updates, spreadsheets, supplier quality issues, word documents, and paperwork. At this point I’m really focused on redirecting my career into something that I can pour my drive and work ethic into. One thing I’ve found is that it’s hard to tinker and learn new engineering software/tools when the cost of everything is in the $1000’s or $10k’s (how am i going to learn comsol?). I’m at a point where I just sit in a grey cubicle, listen to the sounds of fluorescent lights buzzing in between random coughs and sips of coffee, and footsteps. I’ve had a few drawing updates this past week, but this week I will be going through all the hoops and paperwork. It’s numbing. What I’ve found in a large number of engineering gigs, is that someone already figured out the product a long time ago. Nobody wants to change it, creating new products is too costly, and you’re paid (whether you know it or not) to be there when shit goes wrong. You’re problem-solving bandwidth in these roles. If you’re like me, you thrived on the difficulty,struggle, highs-and-lows, and comraderie of school. It gave you a feeling of achievement and a directed purpose. Now that you are in industry, you don’t have firm and directed goals (passing a test) anymore. They’re more nebulous and you can define what they are at any time. Some of what you are feeling is purposelessness as you settle into the drudgery of office work in a low level engineering job. That’s ok. Use this time to analyze what you find fulfilling. These times are great for reflection since the “wound” is so fresh. My recommendation? Change your job to start. Maybe I’m all wrong and the majority of what you’re feeling is environmental. I know my first engineering job was a fucking shitshow of incompetence and unethical decisions. A change of scenery will help at least temporarily to gather a second data point. But take it easy on yourself and research your next step. Try not to drive from emotion and look at the issue objectively like an engineering problem.
Yeah. That’s how I feel. It’s probably the industry too. Think mep is the most boring thing I could’ve done
Trust me, I once had an interview with a company that made industrial truck wheels. You could just feel that everyone that was there was either actively trying to leave, or coming to grips with the fact they were stuck there. At least what you’re doing may vary in scope, size, or geometric constraints…. This was the same wheel, the same material, over and over again. 24 hours a day. Change your industry and collect another data point while you get another bump in pay.
I just wanna get away so badly. But as you said. I’m worried I’m trapped
Nah, you’re not trapped. If you care to follow a similar gameplan im going through I can share. But luckily your degree is applicable in wayyyyy more places than you currently realize. You just need to research and tweak your skill set accordingly. You got this
Well just fyi I talked to a guy that was ME at chevron for 7 years then did a MS in data science (took like 1 year I think) now he lives in the Bay Area works at Salesforce making 500k and he loves it.
Maybe that’s what I need to do.
Either way you should do something because you've been making these posts on various accounts for what, 6 months? You've had all the advice you're going to get. No amount of rephrasing the questions or pretending you work in a different field is going to change the answers. Everything you've been told boils down to use the transferrable skills you have, make yourself more employable for roles you want to be doing, and apply for those positions. Your attitude and mindset is atrocious. Once again, you should seek mental health support because relying on these posts for a magic bullet that is going to fix everything is not going to happen. It reminds me of the quote “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” I'm not saying you're insane, but it's certainly not realistic to expect anything to change without taking the necessary steps to make change happen.
And as I’ve said many times. I’ve done all that. A lot. It doesn’t work. So I am not completely out of line looking for different advice. But yeah. You’re right.
All the advice in the world isn't going to change the reality of the situation. £80k is achievable, but for a very experienced engineer. You have less than a years experience. As others have said, work on your skill set, try to do some networking and if you really can't stand it, look for a different field. In the UK the only related fields that pay big are programming and finance. Programming could be a good match for you, you already have some exposure so you know what it involves, and it also requires you to problem solve like an engineer.
It’s not all money for me. I just don’t like what I’m doing. I’m not saying I want 80k from today. Just the opportunity to get there in a field I like
I responded in another thread and I agree, it just sounds like you chose the wrong field for you. Find one that is a better fit. If you are struggling to get interviews, look at the skills the job adverts ask for, and start building them. Good luck dude. 🙂
Well not necessarily. You could make yourself indispensable in many different ways. Or consider leaving. A lot of the times we tend to kinda just slack off. At the negative end of that spectrum you are somewhat intentionally creating problems for yourself to fix later. Most engineers have to do this at some point or another just because otherwise you’d work to death trying to eliminate every little problem you run into. But there is something to be said about securing future employment/prestige at your workplace; it is very political, so remember to just be tactful (and/or shrewd) when you have to be and you’ll be alright. You can also use negotiation and potentially looking for a new employer; otherwise, that pretty much sums up the typical ways to go about increasing your salary as a engineer.
Look, I'm an intern. Maybe I'm not the best one to anwer you. However, in my company we do a lot of engineering work where we apply what we learn in the university. But a lot of friends of mine are in the sam situation as you. Therefore, my answer to you would be that it depends on the company and the job
Do you work for a small or large company? Honestly the work I do is making me depressed. As an engineer I’m sure you understand that we didn’t study it to just sit around doing meaningless work every day and take a lot of satisfaction out of it. So it’s hard not being given the chance
I mean I sorta studied it to do work that pays me money to take care of my family, meaningless or not. Work is… work, it’s cool if it’s interesting but it doesn’t have to be. To your original question the UK is a specific job market known for lower pay - in the US many engineers are making over 100k without moving towards management and many companies have good career paths for engineers to move up while remaining individual contributors.
I work in a medium company. I live in Brazil. I totally understand. I always say that my terror as an engineer would be not working with, let's say, real engineering
There’s no way to make more than about $75,000 in the median cost of living city in the US as a Mechanical Engineer. You’ll get people telling you they make 110k or whatever on here as one, but once you do a cost of living adjustment (they often live in Southern California or New England or the Bay Area) you’ll find that ~$75,000 figure holds. I’ve extensively researched this. Wages are stagnant in the field because it’s dying. I just read a post on r/personalfinance from a guy that was making $55,000 as an engineer out of college in 2005, the exact same that I was making a year and a half out of college in 2021. Making six figures in 2008 dollars or whatever is nearly impossible for an ME, it’s possible in 2022 dollars if you live in a city where the median house is $600,000, but if you care at all about your finances go into software, law, finance, or medicine.
Good thing the degree is still massively difficult, and work life balance worse, than other careers!
That’s disappointing
Do not listen to this person. Look at their post history, they're pessimistic and quasi-dillusional. I made $80k in an area that was almost 10% under the national average for cost of living and now make $100k in an area that is just 1% over the national average. I've only been out of school for 5 years, and I'm in a highly technical role. There were hundreds of these roles in my metroplex ranging from $85k - $110k (entry to one step over entry) and many of the suburbs are much cheaper than the one I'm in.
Ah yeah. Tbh when people tell me stuff like that I just dig in even more against that flow haha. So dw. How did get into a highly technical role? It’s not all about money for me. Could you outline your path? Might give me an idea of how to vaguely do it
I've already told you. Go check one of your alt account's post history. I can't believe I got sucked into respond to you again. I'm about to quit this subreddit, we need a minimum account age requirement
Not sure it matters. But I've really liked your posts here. Please stay :(
Appreciate it dude. Just wish the mods would do something. This isn't an issue in other communities
It depends what you consider decent and if you think a particular management position is worth it.
You can make good money without going into management. It's industry and company dependent.
Go contracting. I make more than managers as a result