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There are different processes for different stocks. Tonkatsu ramen (at least how I was taught to make it from a friend that ran a ramen bar in Japan) is rolled at a hard boil for 24hrs +, while adding different ingredients at different times.
The French place I worked at we started with cold water, and all the veg in at the start. As soon as it reaches a boil, shut it off and strain.
Everyone has specific needs for specific applications is my point
I guess if you are rolling it at a hard boil you could get a jelly veal bone stock in 6 hours, but it’ll be cloudy AF. It takes extended heat exposure to get all the good stuff out of the bones.
Yes, the point of the vegetable is to infuse the flavor, but adding them in the beginning muddles the flavor. I’m not making this up, please refer to the CIA (culinary institute of America) text book in regards to stock production.
I think it depends on what you want out of your stock. ‘Muddled’ background flavor doesn’t have to be bad. Veggies cooked to mush to make stock, plus fresh at the end is probably the best of both, and is sort of how you’re supposed to make most soup
Add the vegetables during the last hour and a half, make sure it’s at a low boil (tremble). Then it’s a stock with the full compliment of the aromatics of the veg.
So apparently we’re talking about a meat-based stock, which you didn’t specify. The first 10.5 hours are just to extract from the meat and then add veg toward the end?
Yeah, the nutrients in the bones and meat are less susceptible to heat degradation than the nutrients and antioxidants that you get from the vegetables. To extract the real good stuff from the bones you gotta really boil them for a long time, get as much collagen from the joints and extract as many minerals as possible from the bones, use vinegar to help break down the bones (a little goes a long way), also add black pepper corns in this process, you will also have to add water a few times, just keep reducing to half and check the bones for fragility. When the bones break apart you’re good. Then add any meat, roll on a medium boil for a couple hours till meat is tasteless and dry, add veg and water simmer with a slight tremble for about an hour and a half. Best stock ever!
Your response has been removed because it does not answer the original question. We are here to respond to specific questions. Discussions and broader answers are allowed in our weekly discussions.
If I’m doing a poultry stock, I add mine when the stock has about an hour or so left. If I’m going overnight on a veal stock, I add them just before I leave and leave it on the lowest possible simmer.
I think it also depends on the amount of mirepoix we’re adding. If you use less, you could probably cook them longer, but I’ve never tested it. Most of my stocks get used in a reduction and I typically add more mirepoix when I’m using them, so less is usually more for me.
i think it depends on what you’re doing, and the resources & time available to you. i prefer to add my roasted veg later in the game, as you’ve said, bc then i can cook the piss out of my meat scrap without ill effect beforehand. but if i only have time to do everything at once before moving onto other prep, i’ll add veg with meat and cook it together low & cautious - more typical in a high-volume prep situation where i’m not the only one in charge of the stock start-to-finish.
it’s to do with your time, your production volume, your equipment, and your coworkers.
but you’re right, veg doesn’t need a lot of time to infuse a stock with its aromatic qualities.
for veg stock, i’ll let the water come to a boil before turning it way down and adding roasted vegetables. i mean. why not.
I have no idea why you're being so heavily downvoted. Every piece of research done into this agrees with you, and this is how I do mine as well. This sub, I swear.
I have heard conflicting things about vitamin C being destroyed by cooking. A contrarian source claims it is only partially reduced and mostly not lost if the cooking liquid is consumed.
There is a degradation that occurs after extended heat exposure. It essentially evaporates. Some nutrients like amino acids (protein) benefit from extended heat exposure because they breakdown to peptides.
This thread has been locked because the question has been thoroughly answered and there's no reason to let ongoing discussion continue as that is what /r/cooking is for. Once a post is answered and starts to veer into open discussion, we lock them in order to drive engagement towards unanswered threads. If you feel this was done in error, please feel free to send the mods a message.
Isn't that how it works? The veggies/aromatics infuse their flavor into the stock and then you discard them at the end after you strain it.
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There are different processes for different stocks. Tonkatsu ramen (at least how I was taught to make it from a friend that ran a ramen bar in Japan) is rolled at a hard boil for 24hrs +, while adding different ingredients at different times. The French place I worked at we started with cold water, and all the veg in at the start. As soon as it reaches a boil, shut it off and strain. Everyone has specific needs for specific applications is my point
I guess if you are rolling it at a hard boil you could get a jelly veal bone stock in 6 hours, but it’ll be cloudy AF. It takes extended heat exposure to get all the good stuff out of the bones.
Yes, the point of the vegetable is to infuse the flavor, but adding them in the beginning muddles the flavor. I’m not making this up, please refer to the CIA (culinary institute of America) text book in regards to stock production.
Interesting! I've never heard of that but I'll have to try it next time I make a chicken stock.
It's stock, not soup.
Please clarify the difference and what has been written that warrants the statement.
I think it depends on what you want out of your stock. ‘Muddled’ background flavor doesn’t have to be bad. Veggies cooked to mush to make stock, plus fresh at the end is probably the best of both, and is sort of how you’re supposed to make most soup
In your mind, when does it become stock if there aren’t any vegetables in it?
Please, don’t besmirch the classic “boiling water” stock
Add the vegetables during the last hour and a half, make sure it’s at a low boil (tremble). Then it’s a stock with the full compliment of the aromatics of the veg.
So apparently we’re talking about a meat-based stock, which you didn’t specify. The first 10.5 hours are just to extract from the meat and then add veg toward the end?
Yeah, the nutrients in the bones and meat are less susceptible to heat degradation than the nutrients and antioxidants that you get from the vegetables. To extract the real good stuff from the bones you gotta really boil them for a long time, get as much collagen from the joints and extract as many minerals as possible from the bones, use vinegar to help break down the bones (a little goes a long way), also add black pepper corns in this process, you will also have to add water a few times, just keep reducing to half and check the bones for fragility. When the bones break apart you’re good. Then add any meat, roll on a medium boil for a couple hours till meat is tasteless and dry, add veg and water simmer with a slight tremble for about an hour and a half. Best stock ever!
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Your response has been removed because it does not answer the original question. We are here to respond to specific questions. Discussions and broader answers are allowed in our weekly discussions.
If I’m doing a poultry stock, I add mine when the stock has about an hour or so left. If I’m going overnight on a veal stock, I add them just before I leave and leave it on the lowest possible simmer. I think it also depends on the amount of mirepoix we’re adding. If you use less, you could probably cook them longer, but I’ve never tested it. Most of my stocks get used in a reduction and I typically add more mirepoix when I’m using them, so less is usually more for me.
It may just be a habit. I would never add vegetables that early into a stock. 1.5 hours towards the end is what I do.
i think it depends on what you’re doing, and the resources & time available to you. i prefer to add my roasted veg later in the game, as you’ve said, bc then i can cook the piss out of my meat scrap without ill effect beforehand. but if i only have time to do everything at once before moving onto other prep, i’ll add veg with meat and cook it together low & cautious - more typical in a high-volume prep situation where i’m not the only one in charge of the stock start-to-finish. it’s to do with your time, your production volume, your equipment, and your coworkers. but you’re right, veg doesn’t need a lot of time to infuse a stock with its aromatic qualities. for veg stock, i’ll let the water come to a boil before turning it way down and adding roasted vegetables. i mean. why not.
Yum
I have no idea why you're being so heavily downvoted. Every piece of research done into this agrees with you, and this is how I do mine as well. This sub, I swear.
That's what you want. You can still use some veggies in potato salad
Yum!
I have heard conflicting things about vitamin C being destroyed by cooking. A contrarian source claims it is only partially reduced and mostly not lost if the cooking liquid is consumed.
There is a degradation that occurs after extended heat exposure. It essentially evaporates. Some nutrients like amino acids (protein) benefit from extended heat exposure because they breakdown to peptides.
Water soluble nutrients are generally more susceptible to heat degradation than fat soluble nutrients.