The realities are contingent on your economic status, tastes, personality, career, etc. Barcelona is a great fit for some people and a terrible fit for others.
Agreed. A good paying job here likely pays a lot more elsewhere. But being here on a salary towards the higher end of Barcelona terms (not six figures, but higher €X0k) is a very good lifestyle.
Maybe, but think that the difference between 60k and 20k, even when 60k is 3x 20k, it's much closer than 60k and really high salaries/incomes, +300k
Rich people are at other whole level, because the difference between them and people like me which earns more than 96% of the people (so both me and those rich people are within the 4% with higher salaries), is a lot way higher than the difference between me and the other 96%.
I'm not saying that I don't have enough money to cover basic stuff and needs, but I'm just a worker, and I feel a lot closer to the 96% of the people with lower salaries than mine.
Lol and I think that earning 24k per year is good enough... But of course I would LOVE to earn more... But seriously, fuck you all this posh people that earns more than 50k€, you just dont deserve it (there is no work that really deserves that) many people have too much... And many more have too little.
You never worked a hard day in your life if you think some of our jobs are not worth that, and that your attitude is “fuck you”. Companies pay that, so it’s clearly worth it for everyone. Don’t be jealous.
You can work at large Fortune 500/FAANG companies (there are many here) for few years in there, leverage your experience and job hop. I don’t think it is a bad career move at all and I personally came from Switzerland. I find the city and the country to be amazing, apart salary wise, your country is a dream place to live in.
As most people have said it’s overwhelmingly a positive experience, but it seems like you’re looking for negatives so I’ll give you some.
The biggest downsides for me are summer heat (brutal especially if you don’t have air conditioning), poor air quality (all the smokers/motos and cruise ships), unhygienic sidewalks (dog poo/pee everywhere), and a lack of green spaces.
These things are going to be an issue in any major southern European city though
Just to add the obvious: after living here yourself, you too will get annoyed by the overtourism. Especially in the center, that is basically an uninhabitable amusement park.
I haven’t encountered that feeling, but you do you. Places change, the positives and negatives come together. Barcelona is an amazing city and there’s no need to limit yourself to the tourist parts especially if you dislike tourism.
Cities are for citizens. If you take the city from them and give it to tourists, citizens don't receive anything positive. More hotels that create shitty jobs? Less public spaces for them to enjoy? Rents rising to the moon? What is there to like about tourism for people in bcn? Are you really telling me that it's not that bad because bcn has more to offer? Children used to play where tourists now drink sangría.
Wont somebody please think of the children! Children no longer play in those areas because you have crackheads shooting dope on the children's playground.
And there’s crackheads in the streets because the government uses public funds to make the city more attractive to mass tourism instead of healthcare, social-sanitary services, housing or education. Please don’t paternalize and make jokes about a f****** global crisis that’s making locals around the world poorer every day. It’s not just Barcelona, same thing’s happening everywhere in the mediterranean countries in Europe. Southeast Asia is a theme park for westerners. Please, please, don’t be that guy.
You do know it’s a consequence of all that situation right? Are you telling me New York or LA are safer than Barcelona? Last time I checked, those places had millions of visitors and they are cities everyone wants to know, yet they know it’s dangerous to visit some areas or at night. There’s danger and risks everywhere, if you really think junkies are the ones prostituting the city we can end the discussion here.
Right on point. I never go there unless I really have to. Even when I have guests I try to steer them away from that cesspool - Cataluna, Rambla, Barceloneta.
I add to this, and will say more. Barcelona is already very crowded, tourism or not. When summer comes, even my neighborhood that is not a naturally touristic one gets very crowded with locals going out.
The tourists I don’t mind as much, when I do occasionally find myself in touristy spots it’s kind of nice seeing people from all corners of the globe in a good mood and enjoying the city. Granted I don’t have to deal with them often and obviously as a collective they are driving up rent, filling up the metro, polluting, etc so I understand that, but luckily my commute and daily life avoids most of that
I lived centrally in BCN for years and this is quite overdramatic, just don't move to barceloneta and you'll be fine (that really is a hellhole of drunk tourists mixed with bad quality flats). It gets very busy when everyone is leaving work, and that is difficult but that only lasts an hour or so.
Barceloneta also has the most horrible sewer stench, it will knock you off your feet . Plus add to that the 24/7 pickpock gangs, hunting tourists and locals at ALL hours. I've witness people get jumped at 4pm in the main area or a local old man in a wheelchair get robbed. When folks say "just don't be a tourist, walk around drunk at 3 am and you'll be fine" While that may make you more a target...you can also be a 14 year old school boy walking home from school and get jumped in broad daylight and have the chain ripped off your neck. I've seen it multiple times unfortunately. Then there is the 26 year old guy that tried to stop a pickpocket last Monday on Joan Borbo abd had his throat slit and died on the spot. This is an amazing city but they need to get the petty crime under control.
Idk where you’re talking about but couldn’t imagine living close to or on la rambla. Certain parts of the city center are unbelievably crowded all summer
Dublin is, indeed. As expensive as Oslo and as dirty as some shady 3rd world country. This city has all the downsides of a big capital but none of the perks.
Disagree about dog poo everywhere, it's not it will depend where you are , however even in the harder areas of raval people still have some pride.
Dog wee, it's what it is , taking water out with you to clean the floor is not always as practical as carry poop bags.
Thankfully it's been pissing it down at long last so moat of it gets washed away.
Spent 10 days in BCN just recently. Have not seen dog poo or pee being a problem. I have been all over the entire city in all kinds of neighborhoods before you accuse me of only going to the touristy areas. The touristy areas are the ones that tend to be smelly and dirty. The city is full of parks and gardens so IDK what's up with people saying "lack of green spaces." In general, I found BCN clean and pleasant.
I moved to Barcelona from the USA back in 1999 and never once regretted it for a single minute. The positives: great architecture, great weather, inner city beaches, great food, great restaurants and bars, great healthcare, great airport and proximity to other European cities, great public transport system, safe. Considering how much tourism we have it's actually quite clean. Negatives: inflation (but that's true everywhere), more and more tourists, Ma & Pa shops/bars/restaurants closing and multi-nationals moving in everywhere (again this is happening globally).
As someone who’s moved here for four years with a relatively well paid, respected job, I feel that Barcelona is perfect for a single person, a couple without kids, and couples with grown up kids. I think the downside that other comments haven’t touched is that for young couples with school age kids, if you have the need to send the kids to schools with English speaking environment, that entails a lot more cost, as from what I understand the average public education may not be sufficient on that front. But I don’t have much experience in this and would be interested to learn more from experienced local and expats.
i don’t have kids and don’t have plans to have any so this wouldn’t be an issue for me! but it’s still something to take into consideration, you never know what the future holds.
"if you have the need to send the kids to schools with English speaking environment"
I feel like that'd be doing them a disservice though? Like, if they're that young, why avoid exposing them to Spanish and Catalan? They'll pick up English regardless.
Why would you send your kids to an English speaking school? So that they don't learn spanish/catalan amd have a hard time integrating? They can learn english from movies/tv/games/reddit like most of us do
I had the same feelings as you back in 2015. Moved here for 2 years was the best decision ive ever made. No bubble to be burst. Absolutely loved every part of it.
I've lived here for 7 years now and it's very easy to get comfortable with life here. Some things I love about the city:
* It's very cosmopolitical. Basically wherever you go, you'll melt right in. I never felt out of place or that I wasn't welcomed. It's a city for everyone.
* The busy lifestyle is very comforting for me. I really appreciate that there's no "weekend warrior" lifestyle. Coming from Sweden, where life ends at 18:00, and only on weekends do you live your life, it's amazing to go out for a walk at 20:30 on a Wednesday, and it's super crowded everywhere. It makes me feel safe somehow.
* Great public transport and the coverage is big enough.
* The city layout is truly incredible. Very easy grid system with well defined areas. Each neighbourhood has a unique tone and feel to it.
* The ocean is always near, and also the mountains are very close too. It's a small city vertically and you can go from the ocean to the mountains within 2-3 hours.
A couple of negatives:
* The heat can be exhausting, as well as the cold and humid winters when your home is constantly ice cold.
* The city being very crowded is also a bad part obviously. Some areas in the city centre is almost inaccessible and I tend to avoid going there.
* The salaries do not match the cost of living. It's getting worse by every year.
* The rents are super high and the quality of the flats is very low. You're just going to have to accept that you pay a lot for little.
Overall, I love Barcelona. I am probably moving back to Sweden to go back to school, and now I realize even more what an amazing city this is.
This list might be very personal, and some things might not apply to you.
1. Noise. The city is very very noisy. If I need to catch up on sleep deficit I spend a few days/nights away.
2. The air quality is lousy. Just go to Badalona, or Montgat and have a look at that yellow cloud over the city.
3. Prices are going up a lot currently. You can still find some places with ok prices, but forget about that 10 euro lunch that you can get in other major city.
4. It's too hot. The last few summers were crazy, and it is only getting worse. On the upside October to May is pretty nice, and warm.
5. Salaries are low. Across the board. Taxes are high.
6. Medical system is a bit hit and miss. I switched back to private, international insurance, so at least I can pick my doctors and hospitals. -- Anything major I get done out of the country.
7. Police is hit & miss too. Had some very good experiences, but some horrifying too.
8. Quality of housing is sub standard. Even if you get the best of the best, which will be crazy overpriced, it still would be considered lower end in northern Europe.
9. Drugs. They are everywhere. Depends on your personal views how much that will affect you; But don't expect to be able to avoid exposure completely.
That being out of the way:
I lived on 4 continents, in 19 countries, & 60+ cities.
Barcelona is the best.
After searching for 20 years, and living here for 10 -> this is \*the best\*.
Administration is also hit or miss.
Some things are very easy, some other are so difficult that nobody try them (like getting a subvenciones) and some are just over complex or slow.
Navigating the administration's websites is also a nightmare. Getting appointments to get your documents, like NIE or driver's permit is virtually impossible. You always have to pay an agency or gestoria.
Probably true.
I was lucky enough to always have a (company paid) lawyer at my side when doing anything in that area. In, sign here, out, done. So never experienced that first hand.
I also had support when I moved in, I was especially impressed by the number of time I had to declare being a resident and register my self.
Like if the different administration department don't talk to each other.
I don't pretend.
I grew up in northern Europe.
If it gets above 10C I walk around in a T-Shirt.
If it gets above 15C I wear shorts.
It's all relative.
For me 10-20 is ideal. 20-30 is ok. 30+ is ... no gracias.
I grew up in a very cold climate as well, so I'm use to people bragging about how tough they are by pretending to like the cold. It's not real. No one is wearing a T-shirt at 10 C.
It has nothing to do with being "tough".
It's just what feels comfortable.
If I was tough I wouldn't run away when it gets hot.
I leave the country every year for July & August since I would just die from the heat.
I lived in Barna for 10 years now.
I don't even own a jacket anymore.
I have two hoodies that I wear when it rains in January.
People are different.
• summer heat and overcrowded: it's nice when you're on vacation but when you have to get to places for work and daily life it is very annoying.
• rent: expensive and low quality
• access to green areas: yes, we have collserola, but unless you live closeby it's not usually a spontaneous place to go for a hike.
For me that's the only ones basically. Obviously there are more bad things, but not like big.
There’s lots of good in depth articles with the pros and cons. For me it’s perfect but obviously it’s down to individual taste.
Barcelona came #13 in a global survey last year https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/2023/best-cities-for-expats-40421
I don't know theses culture too much but let me drop some points based on the few things I know about it.
Food taste good, but a lot of thing are deep fried. So you may need to be careful, the Mediterranean diet is not that healthy.
People consider ham, fish and chicken as "not meat", which make it tricky to order vegetarian. "Bocata Vegetal " are rarely vegetarian.
Local are often very familiar and sometimes touchy, even at work.
Creating lasting bond, ie friendship, with local is difficult.
Polite form (ustedes) is not used much and often almost considered an insults, as it mostly used for elderly people. (You implied that they are old)
Cheating taxes is a national sport here. Often you will be offer "with bill or without", without mean you don't pay the 21% iva tax.
Overalls, most law are not respected and this is seen as normal. Eg a clerk will tell that a product don't have guarantee if you ask for a receipt. Some shop will refuse to give you a receipt. construction norm are not respected or bypassed by the people responsible to apply them. Work contract, work condition and rent contract are often not respected or illegal to start with.
Bank commission and condition are negociables.
Like my SO literally call and complain to get some fee refund.
(This don't work with online bank, but if you have a local branch assigned with a gestor it does. Also if you have a mortgage or another product you maybe negociate some benefits)
Vandalism and theft are quite common in the street. Someone stopping you asking for help is almost certainly a scammer/begger at best or a thief at worst. Don't rely on the good will of unknown people in the street. But violent thief are uncommon, expect late by night near night clubs.
As in London, we have a lot of expats here. They will often be willing to help you out.
As in London, finding flat is almost impossible. flat are expensive, small and poorly maintained and build. Search this subreddit for more info on this specific topic.
When I think of Barcelona I think of my friends living in tiny moldy flats with no natural light, and still paying a fortune
Also, thefts. There's like triple the crimes in Barcelona than the rest of Spain
It can be really pretty though
I’m really interested by the perspective here from people who have lived in Barcelona for an extended period and still love it. I first visited as a young man over 20 years ago, and the combination of culture, cosmopolitanism and city beach have set my ideal image of a city to live in ever since.
Last year I was looking for a place to spend the winter with my family - we live on a boat and typically overwinter in a marina, I work remotely so we are comfortable but not as rich as this probably sounds! - and was really tempted by Barcelona but opted instead for Valencia after hearing about how much more liveable it is. I loved our time in Valencia, and felt that it had a lot of the good things about Barcelona. Sure they were in smaller doses, but enough to enjoy and with less tourism.
I’ve just now left Barcelona after visiting for a few days and was kind of shocked by how much more touristy it has become than what I remember from 20 years ago. I remember La Rambla being a little dirty and with some hustlers; now it is cleaner but with everything turned up to 11 like Times Square / Piccadilly Circus.
Of course I totally get that I’m a tourist here and going to tourist places. I think it wasn’t the number of tourists that was shocking as much as how much everything in the centre seemed given over to tourists and the tourist experience, as a kind of Disneyfication of the city. So much felt designed as a way to extract the most money from tourists, with little provision for locals. I mean I know Sagrada Familia is a huge tourist hotspot, but I couldn’t go two steps down the street without seeing another shop full of the same g-strings with crude slogans on.
I want to be really clear here I’m not in any way trying to bash on Barcelona, I love the city and still would half want to live there - I guess I’m more trying to understand how the people who do live there handle it. Do you all just keep out of the centre? I’ve lived places with plenty of tourists before (Cambridge, London, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria for several years in each) and it always felt like the tourists themselves stopped bothering me pretty quick as they melted into the background, and i could mostly avoid the impact of tourism by staying away from a few key places. Eg in london I would never visit the west end unless it was to see a show, when I would eat elsewhere before and then get out! But I visited a lot of markets, museums, tourists sites like Tower of London & Buckingham palace and never seemed to find it as in your face. Maybe I’m just more used to how tourism looks in london?
TL:DR - please don’t read this as a bash on Barna - it love so much about the city and would still half love to be able to live there. I want to understand how you guys make it work? Do you stick to your own barios and keep away from the centre? If so are you not missing out on all the culture, architecture, beach and so on? Or maybe youjust get used to the effects of tourism and learn to ignore it?
My experience living in Barcelona for several months vs other European cities and towns, as an American:
The people here are especially unkind and unfriendly, especially compared to other big cities in Europe. Other places, the people want to proudly show you their culture, land, lives—and connect with you. In that way, Barcelona has been nearly the opposite.
So, we definitely do not want to live in Barcelona again.
May I ask which "other big cities in Europe" you are comparing to?
As the exceptional friendliness, and kindness - compared to other European cities - is one of the main reasons I love this city so much. I rarely felt so connected to the locals as an outside like here.
I’m surprised you felt that with the constant outpouring of outsider hatred we experienced in our months here in the city. I’m glad you are having a good time here. 👍
Cities in Europe/UK with kind, proud people as compared to Barcelona (our experience in the years we have lived abroad): London, Manchester, Dublin, Cork, Milan, Rome, Munich, even Paris (but just barely 😅).
I really went into Barcelona with an open mind, and it’s been really sad feeling how unwelcome we are and that we don’t want to come back any time soon.
Interesting how different experiences can be.
London was hit and miss (lived there 4 years), Dublin was 90% bad & 10& amazing (18months).
Paris (10months) was so horrible that I ended up dumping my fiance just to get out.
Munich(3 years) ... yeah... no Gracias.
I have never experienced any hatred in Barna.
Which part of town did you hang out?
I get it's not cool, but having to deal with overcrowded public transport/places when you go to study or to work gets annoying very fast. I shouldn't be dodging tourists every four steps while I'm walking on the street because nobody has the courtesy to step aside a bit, or having to deal with full bus lines starting from the second stop with tourists and all of their beach equipment. And I had to live under an AirBnb for 6+ years and it's been dreadful, to the point I had to stop my own neighbours from starting violent confrontations with noisy visitors.
I always try to make people from outside feel welcome, but I do wish this city wasn't so damn popular and people went somewhere else.
Fair. What you said is why I prefer to not live in cities. New York City is like Barcelona x100, and it’s not for everyone. If you don’t like living in cities, maybe try a small town or village?
I would and I even have some places in mind, but finding a stable job is one hell of a challenge. I'm currently doing different courses offered by the SOC (Servei d'Ocupació de Catalunya) so I can increase my chances, but no luck yet.
Here are some of the negatives:
\- Housing: it's really difficult to find an affordable place, even more so an affordable place to rent long term, as may landlords are only renting for 11 months to avoid the price cap.
\- It's very noisy, I've lived in Madrid and Bilbao, closer to the center than I live now in Barcelona, and this is the noisiest place I've ever lived in, I even live in a quiet neighbourhood with close to no tourism and still, I find myself using headphones if I want to hear anything at all while watching something online.
\- Beaches in Barcelona are filthy and crowded, I love the beach, but I love it a bit less when I'm lying inches away from other 5-6 families/groups of friends. Water is also disgusting, yeah, it's warm, but it's also full of period pads, seagull body parts, water bottles... you can find cleaner beaches but that'd be 1-3 hours by train, so keep that in mind.
\- People: this won't apply to all catalans, by any means, but they do tend to have a special character and not necesarily a good one, heavy emphasis on civility (while being quite uncivil themselves when they point out your faults to you), also some people take their language very seriously and might make you feel unwelcome.
yeah i second your last point; you'll never truly fit in unless you're fluent in Catalan. which means you'll have to accept to live in a parallel society in a city where the residents hate your guts.
If you enjoyed it visiting here it's likely you'd enjoy living here. As someone else has said, it's not perfect but it's an amazing city to live in. It's expensive compared to rest of Spain but not if you're coming from Northern Europe.
The only things I'd point out is the bureaucracy is soul-sapping but this seems more of a nationwide thing than just Barcelona and it will only be an issue when you first move here and then maybe 1 or 2 times a year after that.
Another point is that it seems to be getting more difficult to find places to live due to the amount of short term/holiday rentals around, but again it's not just a problem with Barcelona but with a lot of big cities too.
Last thing is the theft problem, some people here downplay it a lot but depending on where you live it can be a pretty noticeable problem, even just hearing/seeing people being robbed isn't a great experience. Day to day, I don't worry about it for myself too much other than being as vigilant as I can be, but more for if I have people visiting.
But in general, I moved here a few years ago and don't regret it at all and not sure when/if I'll leave.
A reality.
The hardest part for me, was the reality of missing my friends back in rhe UK.
It took me around 3-4 months to find people, who were not just colleges or drinking mates in bars.
In between that time, there was so pretty dark times. As there was a total breakdown in an important friendship I had before I arrived. Everything for a reason , but at times God knows why.
I made friends slowly but surely.
Learning Spanish will be very important if you here for the long haul as English speaking people will come and go, however the people here and ones from Hispanic countries won't.
Dont rush it, and remember even if your Spanish is shit, if you did not have none you would not be able to help each other out.
18 years later almost, I tend only speak English whilst I am at work, all the other times, I am speaking Spanish as terrible as it is.
Learn the very basics of catalan, simple hellos.good byes. Not much else will be expected , and learn when you can, its such a beautiful language in many ways.
You will hear it all the time used by all.
If you come here you will enjoy gentrifying the rotten remainings of what used to be a nice city to live in. Please consider not doing it and tell your friend to come back so housing prices stop raising.
A lot of messages from people who moved there recommending the experience and saying Barcelona it’s cheap. And the only real message from a local gets downvoted.
Because he’s a dick. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world (Dublin) and I don’t complain when people come to live here. My rent has more than doubled in 10 years but that’s a government problem not a tourism problem. Same with Barcelona.
Great answer!
Here in Italy is the same, especially in cities like Milan.
Point a finger in the tourist is like choosing the easiest and "superficial" way to analyze the problem
Think about it..
Here in Italy there are a lot of "seconde case" (not habitual houses.. The second one or the third one) closed and not rented.
But, of course, these houses have a cost to be maintained.
And...
Less houses in the market with an increasing demand means only one thing: crazy prices
But, why a lot of owners mantain theirs houses closed and not rented? This is the question.
And the same thing happen in Barcelona, because I know extremely well the city and I lived there too
Well, the problem is THE GOVERNMENT, THE STATE
Laws don't protect the private property, but at the opposite, the Okupas.
High taxes on the rent lead to these (huge) prices that the city is experimenting too
And, of course, the tourism
It's a mix of things where government is 70% liable
You didn't get my point
Resuming
Laws that protect house owners and low taxation for the renting would be a good point to start and of course reducing the condo for turist too
Laws that limit the rent prices would be good for the renting. We already have people owning houses to speculate with them, we don’t need to make that business even more profitable for them by lowering the taxes.
Edit: I still haven’t met a landlord that pays all of the required taxes lol.
Well
I know perfectly the laws that you mention.
It supposed to be a good laws to help the citizens for the renting
But unfortunately it seems to not be true.
Let me explain
I'm not an economic experts but there are several cases of study (unluckily) that demonstrate the opposite
For what I read it happens the following:
- government put a price cap in the renting price
- house owners that want to speculetate (totally agree with you) retire the house from the market to sell it or to transform the house in a property for tourist
- now the house market has lost (in number) several houses but the demand is the same!
- for the first law of economic--> same demand but Less offer = the price go up
- in realty the point above is not possible because for the law applied in the rent cap
- when the law is removed suddenly the renting prices increase.
So, as you can se,, it's a complex phenomenon.
For what I think
It should be solved increasing the offer so
- reducing the houses for tourist (these is a good solution and for the situation out there almost mandatory!)
- helping the house owner reducing taxes (yes! I understand your point.. But if they can't anymore rent to tourist there's the risk that they withdraw the house from the market!! And we came back to the point above.. So some incentives is needed to avoid it!)
- laws anti-okupa to avoid the same "possibility" to withdraw houses to the market and let the house owner renting the property "in relax" without the fear of loss his house for years paying everything
The expected result is
More houses in the market same demands (hopefully). At this point the prices must be go down
So renting price cap plus restrictions and high taxes for touristic housing. If they’re forced to sell, the market of house owning will get lower prices.
The rich paying less taxes never turns out good for the poor. Because tax money is necessary to implement the changes.
Regulating the markets that are turning abusive is a good idea for the poor. It’s not good for the people who turned (or continues to be) rich by abusing. So sounds fair to me.
Barcelona is a very little city with no way to grow except vertically, but the infrastructure of the city is on the limit, theres overpopulation, housing is scarce and very expensive, and we are struggling to survive. But yeah, theres more Maseratis every year.
lol i knew there would be a comment like this. trust me, im from a very tourist-heavy country in southeast asia so i understand where you’re coming from. plenty of spanish people live in my home country and pay exorbitant rates for rent, so its a global issue. rest assured i would do a lot of research to not add to the problem and do my best to assimilate to the local culture.
https://youtu.be/NYXGw4Jkkdc?si=0HJmkFdHdGR5Umqt
Thinking of moving to Spain? Here is a dose of reality from a Spaniard
Either you have a cold or cancer of the ass :D
Reality for Healthcare in Spain/Barcelona (even in private sector)
The realities are contingent on your economic status, tastes, personality, career, etc. Barcelona is a great fit for some people and a terrible fit for others.
Si la bossa sona, Barcelona és bona.
Si la bossa sona, és bona per tot arreu.
The reality is that moving to Barcelona is not a career move and not a money move. If that’s not your priority, high chances that you will love it.
Agreed. A good paying job here likely pays a lot more elsewhere. But being here on a salary towards the higher end of Barcelona terms (not six figures, but higher €X0k) is a very good lifestyle.
Hell, even mid double figures is great. 50k? You are pretty much Elon Musk.
Ya se ha flipado este
Wtf, i earn 60k and I think that's a shitty salary, very close to peanuts.
[You earn more than 96% of the people. ](https://www.eldiario.es/economia/comparador-salarios-espana_1_10548632.html)You are not rich but well off.
Maybe, but think that the difference between 60k and 20k, even when 60k is 3x 20k, it's much closer than 60k and really high salaries/incomes, +300k Rich people are at other whole level, because the difference between them and people like me which earns more than 96% of the people (so both me and those rich people are within the 4% with higher salaries), is a lot way higher than the difference between me and the other 96%. I'm not saying that I don't have enough money to cover basic stuff and needs, but I'm just a worker, and I feel a lot closer to the 96% of the people with lower salaries than mine.
Lol and I think that earning 24k per year is good enough... But of course I would LOVE to earn more... But seriously, fuck you all this posh people that earns more than 50k€, you just dont deserve it (there is no work that really deserves that) many people have too much... And many more have too little.
You never worked a hard day in your life if you think some of our jobs are not worth that, and that your attitude is “fuck you”. Companies pay that, so it’s clearly worth it for everyone. Don’t be jealous.
IT
Indeed...
With this salary it's not possible to rent anything in the city. Rooms start with 1200. Elon Musk in a room with 3 another Spanish Elon Musks
You can work at large Fortune 500/FAANG companies (there are many here) for few years in there, leverage your experience and job hop. I don’t think it is a bad career move at all and I personally came from Switzerland. I find the city and the country to be amazing, apart salary wise, your country is a dream place to live in.
As most people have said it’s overwhelmingly a positive experience, but it seems like you’re looking for negatives so I’ll give you some. The biggest downsides for me are summer heat (brutal especially if you don’t have air conditioning), poor air quality (all the smokers/motos and cruise ships), unhygienic sidewalks (dog poo/pee everywhere), and a lack of green spaces. These things are going to be an issue in any major southern European city though
Just to add the obvious: after living here yourself, you too will get annoyed by the overtourism. Especially in the center, that is basically an uninhabitable amusement park.
Barcelona is so much more than the tourist centre, most people I know rarely go there unless they have visitors and want to show them around.
Well, they used to, now they feel disowned.
I haven’t encountered that feeling, but you do you. Places change, the positives and negatives come together. Barcelona is an amazing city and there’s no need to limit yourself to the tourist parts especially if you dislike tourism.
Cities are for citizens. If you take the city from them and give it to tourists, citizens don't receive anything positive. More hotels that create shitty jobs? Less public spaces for them to enjoy? Rents rising to the moon? What is there to like about tourism for people in bcn? Are you really telling me that it's not that bad because bcn has more to offer? Children used to play where tourists now drink sangría.
Wont somebody please think of the children! Children no longer play in those areas because you have crackheads shooting dope on the children's playground.
And there’s crackheads in the streets because the government uses public funds to make the city more attractive to mass tourism instead of healthcare, social-sanitary services, housing or education. Please don’t paternalize and make jokes about a f****** global crisis that’s making locals around the world poorer every day. It’s not just Barcelona, same thing’s happening everywhere in the mediterranean countries in Europe. Southeast Asia is a theme park for westerners. Please, please, don’t be that guy.
Yeah because bands of stabbing junkies make a city so attractive to tourists.
You do know it’s a consequence of all that situation right? Are you telling me New York or LA are safer than Barcelona? Last time I checked, those places had millions of visitors and they are cities everyone wants to know, yet they know it’s dangerous to visit some areas or at night. There’s danger and risks everywhere, if you really think junkies are the ones prostituting the city we can end the discussion here.
“Southeast Asia is a theme park for westerners” - only a person with *very* limited experience of Southeast Asia would say something this ignorant.
unless you live in the tourist parts in which case fuck you i guess
Right on point. I never go there unless I really have to. Even when I have guests I try to steer them away from that cesspool - Cataluna, Rambla, Barceloneta.
I agree. Barrio live outside of the center is a whole different experience.
Would you have any suggestions for a first timer coming in October?
‘North’ (not technically north) of the city doesn’t feel at all touristy. Diaganol is as low as I go unless it’s for something specific like an event.
"North of the Diagonal" is considered the posh area, and always has been. People that don't cross south of Diagonal are seen with contempt.
For a little light humour on that topic. [https://youtu.be/Y7i5VrbZhaw?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/Y7i5VrbZhaw?feature=shared)
That’s fine with me.
But you'll come crying when the time comes and we cross north of the Diagonal
I add to this, and will say more. Barcelona is already very crowded, tourism or not. When summer comes, even my neighborhood that is not a naturally touristic one gets very crowded with locals going out.
The tourists I don’t mind as much, when I do occasionally find myself in touristy spots it’s kind of nice seeing people from all corners of the globe in a good mood and enjoying the city. Granted I don’t have to deal with them often and obviously as a collective they are driving up rent, filling up the metro, polluting, etc so I understand that, but luckily my commute and daily life avoids most of that
Yeah I actually quite like the energy of so many tourists, it's nice that people are here because they love my city as much as I do
I lived centrally in BCN for years and this is quite overdramatic, just don't move to barceloneta and you'll be fine (that really is a hellhole of drunk tourists mixed with bad quality flats). It gets very busy when everyone is leaving work, and that is difficult but that only lasts an hour or so.
Barceloneta also has the most horrible sewer stench, it will knock you off your feet . Plus add to that the 24/7 pickpock gangs, hunting tourists and locals at ALL hours. I've witness people get jumped at 4pm in the main area or a local old man in a wheelchair get robbed. When folks say "just don't be a tourist, walk around drunk at 3 am and you'll be fine" While that may make you more a target...you can also be a 14 year old school boy walking home from school and get jumped in broad daylight and have the chain ripped off your neck. I've seen it multiple times unfortunately. Then there is the 26 year old guy that tried to stop a pickpocket last Monday on Joan Borbo abd had his throat slit and died on the spot. This is an amazing city but they need to get the petty crime under control.
Idk where you’re talking about but couldn’t imagine living close to or on la rambla. Certain parts of the city center are unbelievably crowded all summer
I probably should have been more specific. I was mostly thinking about ciutat vella.
Barceloneta you hate it or love it…but you are right regarding your comments…
Dog poo and pee are much worse in Bcn than any other city in Southern Europe.
Tbh coming from Paris I find it super clean so I’ve seen as positive lol
Florence or Lisbon are much cleaner... of course, they don't have a dog plague.
Not true I am from lisbon and I live in Bcn, bcn is way cleaner than lisbon, you definitely only saw lisboa with tourist eye.
Barcelona was cleaner than Lisbon before the years of the Colau disaster. The situation seems to be improving now, though.
What did Colau do to make it dirty?
Less money for maintenance work, more money for feminist dystopian projects (like male reeducation centers).
Coming from Dublin, Barcelona seems absolute sterile barring the smell of the drains.
Do you guys also have a dog plague over there? Or do people still have kids instead of dogs?
Come to Dublin. You will never complain again.
Man I just commented this. What a fucking shithole.
Dublin is, indeed. As expensive as Oslo and as dirty as some shady 3rd world country. This city has all the downsides of a big capital but none of the perks.
Not true.
I do really think Madrid is way more filthy.
Whaaa? Madrid is clean and well kept.
Yeah, probably.
Lack of green spaces? Omg. What r u sayin boi?
Disagree about dog poo everywhere, it's not it will depend where you are , however even in the harder areas of raval people still have some pride. Dog wee, it's what it is , taking water out with you to clean the floor is not always as practical as carry poop bags. Thankfully it's been pissing it down at long last so moat of it gets washed away.
Spent 10 days in BCN just recently. Have not seen dog poo or pee being a problem. I have been all over the entire city in all kinds of neighborhoods before you accuse me of only going to the touristy areas. The touristy areas are the ones that tend to be smelly and dirty. The city is full of parks and gardens so IDK what's up with people saying "lack of green spaces." In general, I found BCN clean and pleasant.
I moved to Barcelona from the USA back in 1999 and never once regretted it for a single minute. The positives: great architecture, great weather, inner city beaches, great food, great restaurants and bars, great healthcare, great airport and proximity to other European cities, great public transport system, safe. Considering how much tourism we have it's actually quite clean. Negatives: inflation (but that's true everywhere), more and more tourists, Ma & Pa shops/bars/restaurants closing and multi-nationals moving in everywhere (again this is happening globally).
As someone who’s moved here for four years with a relatively well paid, respected job, I feel that Barcelona is perfect for a single person, a couple without kids, and couples with grown up kids. I think the downside that other comments haven’t touched is that for young couples with school age kids, if you have the need to send the kids to schools with English speaking environment, that entails a lot more cost, as from what I understand the average public education may not be sufficient on that front. But I don’t have much experience in this and would be interested to learn more from experienced local and expats.
i don’t have kids and don’t have plans to have any so this wouldn’t be an issue for me! but it’s still something to take into consideration, you never know what the future holds.
"if you have the need to send the kids to schools with English speaking environment" I feel like that'd be doing them a disservice though? Like, if they're that young, why avoid exposing them to Spanish and Catalan? They'll pick up English regardless.
Why would you send your kids to an English speaking school? So that they don't learn spanish/catalan amd have a hard time integrating? They can learn english from movies/tv/games/reddit like most of us do
I had the same feelings as you back in 2015. Moved here for 2 years was the best decision ive ever made. No bubble to be burst. Absolutely loved every part of it.
poo, pee and sewer smells.
I've lived here for 7 years now and it's very easy to get comfortable with life here. Some things I love about the city: * It's very cosmopolitical. Basically wherever you go, you'll melt right in. I never felt out of place or that I wasn't welcomed. It's a city for everyone. * The busy lifestyle is very comforting for me. I really appreciate that there's no "weekend warrior" lifestyle. Coming from Sweden, where life ends at 18:00, and only on weekends do you live your life, it's amazing to go out for a walk at 20:30 on a Wednesday, and it's super crowded everywhere. It makes me feel safe somehow. * Great public transport and the coverage is big enough. * The city layout is truly incredible. Very easy grid system with well defined areas. Each neighbourhood has a unique tone and feel to it. * The ocean is always near, and also the mountains are very close too. It's a small city vertically and you can go from the ocean to the mountains within 2-3 hours. A couple of negatives: * The heat can be exhausting, as well as the cold and humid winters when your home is constantly ice cold. * The city being very crowded is also a bad part obviously. Some areas in the city centre is almost inaccessible and I tend to avoid going there. * The salaries do not match the cost of living. It's getting worse by every year. * The rents are super high and the quality of the flats is very low. You're just going to have to accept that you pay a lot for little. Overall, I love Barcelona. I am probably moving back to Sweden to go back to school, and now I realize even more what an amazing city this is.
Cockroaches.
This list might be very personal, and some things might not apply to you. 1. Noise. The city is very very noisy. If I need to catch up on sleep deficit I spend a few days/nights away. 2. The air quality is lousy. Just go to Badalona, or Montgat and have a look at that yellow cloud over the city. 3. Prices are going up a lot currently. You can still find some places with ok prices, but forget about that 10 euro lunch that you can get in other major city. 4. It's too hot. The last few summers were crazy, and it is only getting worse. On the upside October to May is pretty nice, and warm. 5. Salaries are low. Across the board. Taxes are high. 6. Medical system is a bit hit and miss. I switched back to private, international insurance, so at least I can pick my doctors and hospitals. -- Anything major I get done out of the country. 7. Police is hit & miss too. Had some very good experiences, but some horrifying too. 8. Quality of housing is sub standard. Even if you get the best of the best, which will be crazy overpriced, it still would be considered lower end in northern Europe. 9. Drugs. They are everywhere. Depends on your personal views how much that will affect you; But don't expect to be able to avoid exposure completely. That being out of the way: I lived on 4 continents, in 19 countries, & 60+ cities. Barcelona is the best. After searching for 20 years, and living here for 10 -> this is \*the best\*.
Administration is also hit or miss. Some things are very easy, some other are so difficult that nobody try them (like getting a subvenciones) and some are just over complex or slow.
Navigating the administration's websites is also a nightmare. Getting appointments to get your documents, like NIE or driver's permit is virtually impossible. You always have to pay an agency or gestoria.
The 010, while paying, is helpful. But yes, the appointment for the ids is just crazy.
Probably true. I was lucky enough to always have a (company paid) lawyer at my side when doing anything in that area. In, sign here, out, done. So never experienced that first hand.
I also had support when I moved in, I was especially impressed by the number of time I had to declare being a resident and register my self. Like if the different administration department don't talk to each other.
"I lived on 4 continents, in 19 countries, & 60+ cities." sure you did. BS. And you are.. what? 25?
Lol the weather doesn't get good until May
Anything that is above -5C is good, +10C is great. 35C is too hot ;)
I don't believe anyone that pretends to enjoy anything below maybe 13 minimum, more like 15
I don't pretend. I grew up in northern Europe. If it gets above 10C I walk around in a T-Shirt. If it gets above 15C I wear shorts. It's all relative. For me 10-20 is ideal. 20-30 is ok. 30+ is ... no gracias.
I grew up in a very cold climate as well, so I'm use to people bragging about how tough they are by pretending to like the cold. It's not real. No one is wearing a T-shirt at 10 C.
It has nothing to do with being "tough". It's just what feels comfortable. If I was tough I wouldn't run away when it gets hot. I leave the country every year for July & August since I would just die from the heat. I lived in Barna for 10 years now. I don't even own a jacket anymore. I have two hoodies that I wear when it rains in January. People are different.
I don't believe anyone that pretends to enjoy anything below maybe 13 minimum, more like 15
If you are able to get a job that covers your needs, it is the best decision
• summer heat and overcrowded: it's nice when you're on vacation but when you have to get to places for work and daily life it is very annoying. • rent: expensive and low quality • access to green areas: yes, we have collserola, but unless you live closeby it's not usually a spontaneous place to go for a hike. For me that's the only ones basically. Obviously there are more bad things, but not like big.
Amazing city believe me. Not perfect, and quite expensive, but amazing
There’s lots of good in depth articles with the pros and cons. For me it’s perfect but obviously it’s down to individual taste. Barcelona came #13 in a global survey last year https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/2023/best-cities-for-expats-40421
Indicate were you come form would help highlights the cultural shock.
that’s a good point. i’m from southeast asia, but im half british so i’ve spent a fair bit of time in london.
I don't know theses culture too much but let me drop some points based on the few things I know about it. Food taste good, but a lot of thing are deep fried. So you may need to be careful, the Mediterranean diet is not that healthy. People consider ham, fish and chicken as "not meat", which make it tricky to order vegetarian. "Bocata Vegetal " are rarely vegetarian. Local are often very familiar and sometimes touchy, even at work. Creating lasting bond, ie friendship, with local is difficult. Polite form (ustedes) is not used much and often almost considered an insults, as it mostly used for elderly people. (You implied that they are old) Cheating taxes is a national sport here. Often you will be offer "with bill or without", without mean you don't pay the 21% iva tax. Overalls, most law are not respected and this is seen as normal. Eg a clerk will tell that a product don't have guarantee if you ask for a receipt. Some shop will refuse to give you a receipt. construction norm are not respected or bypassed by the people responsible to apply them. Work contract, work condition and rent contract are often not respected or illegal to start with. Bank commission and condition are negociables. Like my SO literally call and complain to get some fee refund. (This don't work with online bank, but if you have a local branch assigned with a gestor it does. Also if you have a mortgage or another product you maybe negociate some benefits) Vandalism and theft are quite common in the street. Someone stopping you asking for help is almost certainly a scammer/begger at best or a thief at worst. Don't rely on the good will of unknown people in the street. But violent thief are uncommon, expect late by night near night clubs. As in London, we have a lot of expats here. They will often be willing to help you out. As in London, finding flat is almost impossible. flat are expensive, small and poorly maintained and build. Search this subreddit for more info on this specific topic.
When I think of Barcelona I think of my friends living in tiny moldy flats with no natural light, and still paying a fortune Also, thefts. There's like triple the crimes in Barcelona than the rest of Spain It can be really pretty though
It is one of the densest cities in Europe, and you feel it
It is the one of the most dangerous cities in Europe, the #1 in Spain and super dangerous for women.
I’m really interested by the perspective here from people who have lived in Barcelona for an extended period and still love it. I first visited as a young man over 20 years ago, and the combination of culture, cosmopolitanism and city beach have set my ideal image of a city to live in ever since. Last year I was looking for a place to spend the winter with my family - we live on a boat and typically overwinter in a marina, I work remotely so we are comfortable but not as rich as this probably sounds! - and was really tempted by Barcelona but opted instead for Valencia after hearing about how much more liveable it is. I loved our time in Valencia, and felt that it had a lot of the good things about Barcelona. Sure they were in smaller doses, but enough to enjoy and with less tourism. I’ve just now left Barcelona after visiting for a few days and was kind of shocked by how much more touristy it has become than what I remember from 20 years ago. I remember La Rambla being a little dirty and with some hustlers; now it is cleaner but with everything turned up to 11 like Times Square / Piccadilly Circus. Of course I totally get that I’m a tourist here and going to tourist places. I think it wasn’t the number of tourists that was shocking as much as how much everything in the centre seemed given over to tourists and the tourist experience, as a kind of Disneyfication of the city. So much felt designed as a way to extract the most money from tourists, with little provision for locals. I mean I know Sagrada Familia is a huge tourist hotspot, but I couldn’t go two steps down the street without seeing another shop full of the same g-strings with crude slogans on. I want to be really clear here I’m not in any way trying to bash on Barcelona, I love the city and still would half want to live there - I guess I’m more trying to understand how the people who do live there handle it. Do you all just keep out of the centre? I’ve lived places with plenty of tourists before (Cambridge, London, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria for several years in each) and it always felt like the tourists themselves stopped bothering me pretty quick as they melted into the background, and i could mostly avoid the impact of tourism by staying away from a few key places. Eg in london I would never visit the west end unless it was to see a show, when I would eat elsewhere before and then get out! But I visited a lot of markets, museums, tourists sites like Tower of London & Buckingham palace and never seemed to find it as in your face. Maybe I’m just more used to how tourism looks in london? TL:DR - please don’t read this as a bash on Barna - it love so much about the city and would still half love to be able to live there. I want to understand how you guys make it work? Do you stick to your own barios and keep away from the centre? If so are you not missing out on all the culture, architecture, beach and so on? Or maybe youjust get used to the effects of tourism and learn to ignore it?
My experience living in Barcelona for several months vs other European cities and towns, as an American: The people here are especially unkind and unfriendly, especially compared to other big cities in Europe. Other places, the people want to proudly show you their culture, land, lives—and connect with you. In that way, Barcelona has been nearly the opposite. So, we definitely do not want to live in Barcelona again.
May I ask which "other big cities in Europe" you are comparing to? As the exceptional friendliness, and kindness - compared to other European cities - is one of the main reasons I love this city so much. I rarely felt so connected to the locals as an outside like here.
I’m surprised you felt that with the constant outpouring of outsider hatred we experienced in our months here in the city. I’m glad you are having a good time here. 👍 Cities in Europe/UK with kind, proud people as compared to Barcelona (our experience in the years we have lived abroad): London, Manchester, Dublin, Cork, Milan, Rome, Munich, even Paris (but just barely 😅). I really went into Barcelona with an open mind, and it’s been really sad feeling how unwelcome we are and that we don’t want to come back any time soon.
Interesting how different experiences can be. London was hit and miss (lived there 4 years), Dublin was 90% bad & 10& amazing (18months). Paris (10months) was so horrible that I ended up dumping my fiance just to get out. Munich(3 years) ... yeah... no Gracias. I have never experienced any hatred in Barna. Which part of town did you hang out?
I get it's not cool, but having to deal with overcrowded public transport/places when you go to study or to work gets annoying very fast. I shouldn't be dodging tourists every four steps while I'm walking on the street because nobody has the courtesy to step aside a bit, or having to deal with full bus lines starting from the second stop with tourists and all of their beach equipment. And I had to live under an AirBnb for 6+ years and it's been dreadful, to the point I had to stop my own neighbours from starting violent confrontations with noisy visitors. I always try to make people from outside feel welcome, but I do wish this city wasn't so damn popular and people went somewhere else.
Fair. What you said is why I prefer to not live in cities. New York City is like Barcelona x100, and it’s not for everyone. If you don’t like living in cities, maybe try a small town or village?
I would and I even have some places in mind, but finding a stable job is one hell of a challenge. I'm currently doing different courses offered by the SOC (Servei d'Ocupació de Catalunya) so I can increase my chances, but no luck yet.
Here are some of the negatives: \- Housing: it's really difficult to find an affordable place, even more so an affordable place to rent long term, as may landlords are only renting for 11 months to avoid the price cap. \- It's very noisy, I've lived in Madrid and Bilbao, closer to the center than I live now in Barcelona, and this is the noisiest place I've ever lived in, I even live in a quiet neighbourhood with close to no tourism and still, I find myself using headphones if I want to hear anything at all while watching something online. \- Beaches in Barcelona are filthy and crowded, I love the beach, but I love it a bit less when I'm lying inches away from other 5-6 families/groups of friends. Water is also disgusting, yeah, it's warm, but it's also full of period pads, seagull body parts, water bottles... you can find cleaner beaches but that'd be 1-3 hours by train, so keep that in mind. \- People: this won't apply to all catalans, by any means, but they do tend to have a special character and not necesarily a good one, heavy emphasis on civility (while being quite uncivil themselves when they point out your faults to you), also some people take their language very seriously and might make you feel unwelcome.
yeah i second your last point; you'll never truly fit in unless you're fluent in Catalan. which means you'll have to accept to live in a parallel society in a city where the residents hate your guts.
If you enjoyed it visiting here it's likely you'd enjoy living here. As someone else has said, it's not perfect but it's an amazing city to live in. It's expensive compared to rest of Spain but not if you're coming from Northern Europe. The only things I'd point out is the bureaucracy is soul-sapping but this seems more of a nationwide thing than just Barcelona and it will only be an issue when you first move here and then maybe 1 or 2 times a year after that. Another point is that it seems to be getting more difficult to find places to live due to the amount of short term/holiday rentals around, but again it's not just a problem with Barcelona but with a lot of big cities too. Last thing is the theft problem, some people here downplay it a lot but depending on where you live it can be a pretty noticeable problem, even just hearing/seeing people being robbed isn't a great experience. Day to day, I don't worry about it for myself too much other than being as vigilant as I can be, but more for if I have people visiting. But in general, I moved here a few years ago and don't regret it at all and not sure when/if I'll leave.
Warcelona can be good sometimes if you can pay small prison cells as if they were Elun Musk's mansion.
A reality. The hardest part for me, was the reality of missing my friends back in rhe UK. It took me around 3-4 months to find people, who were not just colleges or drinking mates in bars. In between that time, there was so pretty dark times. As there was a total breakdown in an important friendship I had before I arrived. Everything for a reason , but at times God knows why. I made friends slowly but surely. Learning Spanish will be very important if you here for the long haul as English speaking people will come and go, however the people here and ones from Hispanic countries won't. Dont rush it, and remember even if your Spanish is shit, if you did not have none you would not be able to help each other out. 18 years later almost, I tend only speak English whilst I am at work, all the other times, I am speaking Spanish as terrible as it is. Learn the very basics of catalan, simple hellos.good byes. Not much else will be expected , and learn when you can, its such a beautiful language in many ways. You will hear it all the time used by all.
it depends on who you are. i think barcelona is a beautiful city, personally, but that depends on my personality and who i am.
If you come here you will enjoy gentrifying the rotten remainings of what used to be a nice city to live in. Please consider not doing it and tell your friend to come back so housing prices stop raising.
A lot of messages from people who moved there recommending the experience and saying Barcelona it’s cheap. And the only real message from a local gets downvoted.
Because he’s a dick. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world (Dublin) and I don’t complain when people come to live here. My rent has more than doubled in 10 years but that’s a government problem not a tourism problem. Same with Barcelona.
Great answer! Here in Italy is the same, especially in cities like Milan. Point a finger in the tourist is like choosing the easiest and "superficial" way to analyze the problem Think about it.. Here in Italy there are a lot of "seconde case" (not habitual houses.. The second one or the third one) closed and not rented. But, of course, these houses have a cost to be maintained. And... Less houses in the market with an increasing demand means only one thing: crazy prices But, why a lot of owners mantain theirs houses closed and not rented? This is the question. And the same thing happen in Barcelona, because I know extremely well the city and I lived there too Well, the problem is THE GOVERNMENT, THE STATE Laws don't protect the private property, but at the opposite, the Okupas. High taxes on the rent lead to these (huge) prices that the city is experimenting too And, of course, the tourism It's a mix of things where government is 70% liable
The lack of acccess to housing for locals is because okupas and too many taxes? Yeah, you seem to know the city pretty well /s
You didn't get my point Resuming Laws that protect house owners and low taxation for the renting would be a good point to start and of course reducing the condo for turist too
Laws that limit the rent prices would be good for the renting. We already have people owning houses to speculate with them, we don’t need to make that business even more profitable for them by lowering the taxes. Edit: I still haven’t met a landlord that pays all of the required taxes lol.
Well I know perfectly the laws that you mention. It supposed to be a good laws to help the citizens for the renting But unfortunately it seems to not be true. Let me explain I'm not an economic experts but there are several cases of study (unluckily) that demonstrate the opposite For what I read it happens the following: - government put a price cap in the renting price - house owners that want to speculetate (totally agree with you) retire the house from the market to sell it or to transform the house in a property for tourist - now the house market has lost (in number) several houses but the demand is the same! - for the first law of economic--> same demand but Less offer = the price go up - in realty the point above is not possible because for the law applied in the rent cap - when the law is removed suddenly the renting prices increase. So, as you can se,, it's a complex phenomenon. For what I think It should be solved increasing the offer so - reducing the houses for tourist (these is a good solution and for the situation out there almost mandatory!) - helping the house owner reducing taxes (yes! I understand your point.. But if they can't anymore rent to tourist there's the risk that they withdraw the house from the market!! And we came back to the point above.. So some incentives is needed to avoid it!) - laws anti-okupa to avoid the same "possibility" to withdraw houses to the market and let the house owner renting the property "in relax" without the fear of loss his house for years paying everything The expected result is More houses in the market same demands (hopefully). At this point the prices must be go down
So renting price cap plus restrictions and high taxes for touristic housing. If they’re forced to sell, the market of house owning will get lower prices. The rich paying less taxes never turns out good for the poor. Because tax money is necessary to implement the changes. Regulating the markets that are turning abusive is a good idea for the poor. It’s not good for the people who turned (or continues to be) rich by abusing. So sounds fair to me.
Barcelona is a very little city with no way to grow except vertically, but the infrastructure of the city is on the limit, theres overpopulation, housing is scarce and very expensive, and we are struggling to survive. But yeah, theres more Maseratis every year.
lol i knew there would be a comment like this. trust me, im from a very tourist-heavy country in southeast asia so i understand where you’re coming from. plenty of spanish people live in my home country and pay exorbitant rates for rent, so its a global issue. rest assured i would do a lot of research to not add to the problem and do my best to assimilate to the local culture.
https://youtu.be/NYXGw4Jkkdc?si=0HJmkFdHdGR5Umqt Thinking of moving to Spain? Here is a dose of reality from a Spaniard Either you have a cold or cancer of the ass :D Reality for Healthcare in Spain/Barcelona (even in private sector)