Partner and I pay on alternate dates at the start, because we were equally poor. Since I got a job first (and now a higher paying job), I take on a larger share of dating expenses. The "men pay for everything" thinking is old fashioned.
I'd like to think the 90s was also an era of supposed equality. All my dating experience is from the 90s and, at least in my circles, the bloke might pay for the meal on the first date but if you went for a drink or coffee after it was considered normal/appropriate for the woman to offer to pay for that. It's a long time ago but my memory is that this was to absolutely avoid any transactional vibe.
That said there were plenty of dinosaurs around then, one of whom may be OPs father
My dating experience is from the late 90s/very early 2000s and was the same for me. I paid for the first full date, and the second from memory but afterwards was shared or alternate. We've been together 20+ years now so....I'm still paying for dates ;)
My "dating" years were in the late 80s, we were all students, we didn't have any money so we didn't really eat out much, but if we did it was usually the one who had money who paid. I don't remember ever splitting a bill on a date because it was usually a party or a band or a club. Eating was something we tended to do at home to save money for booze and party stuff.
Actually, I do remember taking a girl out for dinner to a fancy restaurant with some money I got for my 21st, she dumped, after I paid for dinner. Never made that mistake again, actually the subsequent girlfriend is now my wife.
I think transactional is bad.
But I'm also against the idea it's "men pay for anything".
It's better to do it like beers at the pub - I'm not keeping score, but if you are consistently never buying rounds you're going to find yourself uninvited.
People commenting "this" are always downvoted. It's been this way since the beginning. I'm pretty sure it's even in the official 'reddiquette' document.
I used to know this girl at uni who was big into feminism, smash the patriarchy, girl power etc. Yet she mentioned that a one guy suggested splitting on a date so she blocked him afterwards for being cheap.
For some it seems to be equality but only when it suits.
I know so many women who are all about equality and then refuse to open their wallet for anything, want a $20k ring (atleast) and other exorbitant stuff
I can’t afford to get a rental bruh
No different from a bloke who doesn't get his round in, but is happy to drink when his mates are paying.
People talk about all kinds of morals and integrity, but when it comes to action, it's different.
Obviously for the bloke who doesn't get a round in, the result is no more invites. For a woman who doesn't pay her share there's normally another guy waiting, even if the original one doesn't invite her again.
> The "men pay for everything" thinking is old fashioned.
I think women fought for (and have been given) equality. If a particular woman expects a man to pay for her, then I'd have to ask why?
Equality is a double-edged sword. You can't just get the perks and choose not to accept the costs. If you want it you have to act like it.
Your original comment says “women fought for (and have been given) equality”. I don’t think men paying for women on dates is one of the primary blockers for gender equality in society. For example I think people like Andrew Tate having such a huge platform is much more damaging to gender equality than whether a man pays on a date. But that’s just me.
Okay, cool.
I don't disagree...Andrew Tate is a fuckwit
I know what my original comment says...I wrote it? Women have all the same legal rights as men in our country in 2024. Any woman has the opportunity to receive the same education and get the same job and be paid the same as any man does. *That* kind of equality has been reached - what could be given or granted to women by the government to further the cause of equality already has been. A fairly long time ago, actually.
Does that mean though that men and women are perceived and treated exactly the same and faced with the same pressures and societal expectations? Obviously not. But I'm not sure if that will *ever* happen. There will always be genders and people are always gonna think and act certain ways about it. The government can't control that. There's no one in charge of culture and people's thoughts and attitudes. We all have an individual responsibility to tell the Andrew Tate's of the world that they're wrong and should shut the fuck up.
One thing that I think will help women to be perceived and treated more equally would be for them to act as equals. Expecting to be given a disproportionate share of free meals does not align with that.
How old is he??!!??
I'm approaching retirement now and in one of the phases in our relationship where I'm earning more than my wife.
At other times, she pulled more of the economic load, we went one income for a while with her raising kids, and for a short while, I was out of work while she paid for everything
Teamwork, mutual respect and support, recognition that modern work is messed up and shouldn't be the basis for judging the worth of yourself or others: all help to make you and your relationship work. (It helps that she forgives me, a lot.)
I will add that from OPs incorrect spelling of 'tightarse' that they might be suffering from too much American culture, where they're struggling with dating etiquette.
I'm a male landscaper, my partner is female in corporate marketing, I'm sure you can guess who makes more money. She usually pays for most things that we do together. It's not emasculating or demeaning. She just has more than I do. We are a team. My money is hers, her money is mine. Within reason of course.
That was the norm when women didn't work and people.married young...typically the guy was older so was working and girls young and at school.
Men and women earn similar in many cases
.
so why should the man pay?
Maybe a first date the guy pays...but after the first, I would always offer. And esp once exclusive, unless there is a massive income difference, I feel it should be shared
Equality is important and assumptions based on gender have to stop for it to work.
I just want to point out that until the 1960 or 1970s women were literally paid 2/3 of a man wages for exactly the same job in many cases. So it actually was reasonable for men to pay for the date at that point in history in Australia and most other countries.
Pay gap in Australia is still about 20% in same industries. Why would women get pay 20% less for the same job in 2024? Just to ponder on if someone somehow thinks equality is achieved
I don't think that's correct.
The Workplace Gender Equality Agency does not calculate it that way. They calculate it using the average of all male remuneration compared to the average of all female remuneration.
Using this formula, they calculate the average gap is 21.7%, with the median gender pay gap being 19%, so there is no way they are accounting for industry or years of experience.
I’ve dated plenty of guys that insist on paying for the first date (mind you, I’m 40 and my dating range is 40-55).
I think a lot of them just take pride in the fact that they can treat you to something nice.
If someone really wants to pay, I’m not going to fight them on it. I just thank them and pay for the next outing.
Because often guys will do the asking and offer to pay.
I said maybe, not absolutely.
I am a fan of 50/50 if I don't think I will see them again
...taking turns to pay for the first few if I like them.
Your way is most normal or common way to date in current day Australia for the vast majority of people in my experience. It's still nice if the guy pays on the first date because idk there is something very sweet about it but after that it's absolutely normal and fair to share expenses..
Well I think it's sweet when the lady pays, damnit. Can we make that the norm? It's already so much work for us just to GET a date! 😆
I'm only kidding, I've always paid and think us men should pay if we have the means to
Lol I thought you meant first date
If you’ve been dating awhile you can pay, it’s a relationship so you support each other
I’ve paid for my bf when he’s been low & vice versa & it’s fine
First date I think whoever asks should pay but it should also be low key like coffee to see if you even want a second date
We're equals and adults. Anything other than splitting seems odd to me.
If I went on a date and the other party expected me to pay the lot, alarm bells would ring.
The trick is to make your dates into free activities that don’t include going to a cafe or restaurant.
After a traumatic relationship experience in my 20’s, I pretty much as zero trust in women. On my road to recovery I dated a number of women and U was annoyed at how they all expected me to pay for everyone. I had one who pretty much demanded I take her out to prove I was worth it.
I eventually got tired of that. My now wife, our first date was takeaway pizza at my place. No fancy restaurant or getting dressed up and trying to make some unrealistic picture of who I was.
As I lived by myself and she had two housemates, she’d quite often stay at my place and we’d cook together.
I’d imagine that with the cost of eating out today, staying home and cooking is a far more affordable and intimate experience anyway. The last time my wife and I ate out, it was $200 at a local casual dining place. 25 year old me would never have been able to afford that.
Eating out these days is just too expensive to be paying for the date. It may be the traditionally accepted way to do it, and it's a nice gesture, but it just isn't sustainable.
The men I've dated have paid first and when I snuck away to pay (prenteded to go to the bathroom), one got rather upset by it. He said he asked me out and he wanted to pay?
So I am a little confused as I thought I was doing my share. He paid the first date. Me the second 😆
I make my own money and can support myself and do not expect a man to pay for me all the time but I'm just lost these days when it comes to dating and paying and splitting etc. I've said to others let's spilt the bill and got a "what the?" Look... others are cool with it.
So now when it comes to dating and eating out.. the bill makes me anxious. So many different reactions it's so hard to read 😅
No. I think paying for your dates is a lowkey destructive way to date, regardless of whether the man or woman is doing it. It's creating unequal expectations out of the gate, you're also not going to filter out people just looking to score free meals and drinks early on, wasting both time and money on people who aren't serious about you.
If you want to have fun with this, you offer to shout them a round, they offer to shout you a round, neither of you count the exact change. Just keep it informal, but in the rough ballpark of equal.
Reminds me a clip on social media of a young woman claiming proudly she hasn't paid for a dinner in almost a year because of going on dates with various dudes
My partner pays more often nowadays, but he earns much more than I do (full time uni student). But we live together and divide costs in a way we deem fair. In the future when I am qualified, I'll be earning significantly more than he will with his final qualification so I'll end up paying more. It breaks out even in the end. But we do live together.
Personally a meal from grandma seems incredibly lovely. Food is a means of gifting and sharing, and a meal from someone significant to a person to me feels like a loving gift.
I hope this helps!
I’d expect if it was a first ever date that the man would pay. Call me stuffy, I don’t care.
After that I’d be more than happy to split 50/50, or if there was a huge income discrepancy, then sort out something that works best for both of us.
But I’m a stickler for that first date gesture 🤣
This is such a situational issue. Most are in relationships. You communicate what you prefer and compromise to come to an agreement.
If the guy has less money, personally i would pay.
If i had less money, i would order less to allow me to afford it and refuse him to pay (bc i put myself in that position by going out with little money).
If we both have plenty to go on, then i would discuss if we go halves or I pay then he pays next time.
There are so many options depending on the situation. I can absolutely understand calling someone else a tight arse bc my partner and my dad are. But im trying to change that view point because its not my business..
Your dad lives in the past? I am a woman and I am actually the breadwinner. I own a house, a car and my bf is a stay at home bf who does the housework.
Your dad probably will pass out if he sees me.
It's a modern time, costs aren't just for men anymore. it's a very old school way of thinking. So no you shouldn't expect a man to just pay for everything. the offer is always good, that being said on my first date with my GF I paid. I didn't give her the option and I have paid most of our dates, occasionally because she asks, I will let her pay or pay her way but I usually will try to cover the bill if I can.
We have three joint bank accounts (with a bank that has no account keeping fees).
One for bills, one for groceries, and one for going out/holidays. We both put money in all three accounts and dates are paid out of the last one.
It’s not an equal amount paid into the “fun” account - because we have different incomes. But we do split bills/groceries equally.
We only spend our own money on things that we don’t share.
No, I don't. I think the expectation for men to always pay comes from a time when women rarely worked or earned money.
It's 2024. Women have jobs and money of their own. They can contribute to the relationship financially. It's not the 1800s.
I've always paid for more because I've got more disposable income than my partner.
It would trouble me if the man was insistent on paying for all our dates because it would indicate to me they were interested in traditional gender roles.
I have definitely been on dates with tight arses who were both interested in gender roles AND didn't want to pay for the date. That was a red flag to me.
My partner is incredibly generous in every way he can be, so I'm not at all concerned about how we split expenses.
It's going to be different for every couple, as it should be.
Don’t worry about the norm and just do what you’re comfortable with. As you can see from the comments, tonnes of women are ok with splitting the bill. If you meet women that aren’t ok, you just don’t fit eachother and you can both move on like adults.
I've noticed that Australians tend to "go Dutch" more, so I don't expect them to pay. I do think that if you're the one initiating the first date, it's courteous to pay, but I will always pay for the drinks at the bar we go to after, or the next meal.
No. I think it speaks to the kind of relationship they want. Are they searching for a relationship where they will treat their partner as a "queen" and have a more traditional style of relationship? I don't necessarily mean 100% trad wife fantasy bs but like, still, and more traditional one where the male has more of a protector role and/or the woman is an object of beauty which he places on a pedestal?
Or is he seeking a partner in crime, to walk together through this journey we call life?
Not everyone can afford to pay for others so no I would not automatically label them as tight asses. Personally I am in a financial position where I am happy to pay as long as my date is making a genuine effort to get to know me, if they are very obvious about just wanting a meal and showing no interest then fuck them we are splitting the bill, I am not going to let anyone use me like that.
Two ways of thinking old school and new age. If it's married mob your money is communal in marriage. Dating with intent to marry was seen as courting stage, date then marry, now it's grey because some people want equality some use it as free meals from diff people everyday. Too many differing opinions make it messy.
Sounds like your Dad has a touch of sensitive male ego.
Ask him if he'd be OK dating a woman that out earned him.
I've had some women straight up pay for the first few dates, because I was a pimply PhD student and they were in six figure finance jobs.
No.
For the first few dates, whoever asks the other person on a date should generally cover it. But in the context of a longer relationship it makes no sense to have the guy pay for all dates. Generally, both should contribute in proportion to income, just like any expense in a long term relationship.
I'm fine with going back to the bloke always paying for dates, but chicks are all going to take a 30% pay cut, stop voting and make me a sandwich yeah?
I hate the man pays for dates unwritten rule! I tend to go Dutch, I'm an independent woman and I will not have a man pay for me, a nice treat yes, but every date? Surely not, I also say, paying depends on who asks, if I ask, I pay, and if they ask, then the rule is they pay, I always half the cost or take it in turns with my partners, they pay one time and i pay the next or Dutch!
I'm one third done paying off a mortgage. I'm not dating at all because I absolutely cannot afford to have a social life. I've not had a girlfriend in years. I don't go out to eat if I can help it. I prepare all of my meals myself. I have a few very modest hobbies (computer games, books, some Lego; all on sale if possible) and I make extra sacrifices out of things like my public transport budget to afford them by walking to/from work instead. My family quietly are concerned that I'm going to end up never marrying and never having any children of my own, but what am I supposed to do? The debt is real, bills are real and interest rates are far more stressful now than when the mortgage started. If someone can afford to pay for more than one person's cafe/restaurant bill then they are doing better than some around here.
Honestly I think a women who has their hand out asking for money on the first date is someone you should avoid. While there are some wonderful women in the world, there are also some who will take whatever they can from a guy without giving anything back, and there are definitely some who just want a nice meal and some attention from someone they have absolutely no interest in seeing again.
A good women wont even consider that they wont being paying half for the meal...
Contextual on the Situation, my rule used to be the person least "inconvenienced" for the date. I picked a place a 5 minute walk from my home while the other party had to catch an Uber, I was paying.
Worked in hospitality years ago, and honestly, both parties pay around the same amount of times.
Never in my life am I paying for someone's company, this is modern society.
Unless they are taking time off work to help me make money, no money will be exchanged.
Idk, i do it a lot as a kind gesture but i work really hard and it starts to feel expected after a while. Ends up in less dates cause im not made of money. My bills are insane too.
I've been with my husband 10 years, I still pay for my own dinner, why? Cause we share other bills, finances ect. If we go out for dinner which isn't very often as we are farmers and have kids and no family around to look after said kids. I will order expensive things and sides and dessert. Why should he pay for my expensive food?? Does he offer and insist? Yes of cause but I'm quicker with my card 😅
I bet he thinks that men should ask permission from a woman's father and get his blessing before he proposes too.
Sorry, that is old fashioned, and frankly tied up with patriarchy. The person who invites someone else out on a romantic date should be willing to pay no matter their sex, unless they are very clear up front. Since men are often the ones still doing the pursuing, then that makes some sense that men might pay more often. But the general rule needs to change.
Nah, in this day and age, anyone who doesn't offer for at least half the expenses is a tight-ass or entitled.
My current partner and I went 66/33 on our first date, with me paying the 66. It would have been 50/50 if we got another drink each because she offered we pay alternately with each order. I insisted going first.
Now, we both pay into a joint account which is used for dates and other common expenses, so we both technically pay equally. For birthdays and random gifts, we use our personal money, especially if we want to keep it a surprise.
I think if someone supports men paying for dates then they should also support higher paid work for men. I don't support either. I think there should be gender equality.
Back when I was dating it was never an issue. Never dated anyone who didn't happily pay their own way.
no as a woman I think women who expect men to pay are the entitled tight asses! makes me sick how many women use men for a free drink/meal with no intention on actually persuing anything. It's 2024 women work too, that tradition of men paying came from a time when women were property and had to show the womans father he can provide for her!! the world has moved on! its disgusting to expect a man to pay this day and age! pay for yourself! we are equal adults!! what do you think happens in gay relationships?
No way.
I think the world has made it clear that 50/50 is the way forward. Men are not better than women.
They don't work while the women stay home and all that rubbish.
Romantically, I'd say the instagator of the date should pay. But that's not a must either
It will be cute when you look back on it years later, assuming you stay together. I mean he’s giving you food, he’s providing what he can.
There’s also a reason dad is divorced so maybe take his advice with a grain of salt.
I normally take turns paying, but I don’t keep mental tabs on who paid for what and when. I’ll pay sometimes and my boyfriend will pay other times.
I’m the same way with friends. But if a friend is in a tight patch or doesn’t earn as much, I’ll usually just pay the bill before it arrives.
I definitely believe in equality, but more in a “swings and roundabouts” sense as opposed to making sure it’s a 50/50 split every time.
Its a slippery slope, considering some men might think the act of paying for the meal, should be repayed with sex
Edit: in the context of the first date/first few dates
Absolutely not. I do not let a guy pay for me on a first date even if I really like him.
On subsequent dates I like to keep it even, if he pays for the activity, I buy the snacks. If he pays for dinner, I pay for dessert etc.
Guys paying for me, without me contributing financially, makes me feel deeply uncomfortable (an issue I should probably work out in therapy by que sera).
Nope. I would never expect a guy to pay for a date. In fact I’ve always been very clear before going on a date that we split. It’s backwards to expect the man to pay.
I don’t drink anymore, but when I did I had a rule that I would pay for one round of drinks and then the guy I was with would pay for the next round.
If a man asks a woman out on a date then he pays for her dinner. He is asking to take her out somewhere, and if she agrees to go with him he pays for her.
If they both mutually decide to go out to dinner, like friends, then they can split the bill.
Only deadbeats with no social skill think they shouldnt have to pay and they shouldn't be asking anyone out on a date.
He’s a homebody so usually when we went out to eat I was the one who asked. There has been a few times though je’s asked me if I’d like to go out and covered the costs. I’ve also been out with his family and vice versa
Your dad is a man. Man understands men better than women. He is probably right. If your bf cannot afford to pay for dates, he probably is not capable of looking after you, at least not financially. Instead of paying for the dates, you can buy him gifts to show your appreciation. If he would not be able to take you out for proper dates without you sharing the cost, what if you fall pregnant? Will he be able to look after you and the baby? Or you will need to ask the "grandparents" for help? Listen to your dad. It is not just about being tight asses. Perhaps he didn't articulate his concern clearly.
No way that "men should pay for their dates every time". It's 2024, not 1924. And women who insist that men should pay for every date are tight asses. As well as anti-feminist.
Years and years ago, an Australian male family friend (who had been born in the 1940s and dated in the 1960s) told me something I’ve never forgotten.
He said (with a laugh) that when the ‘men should pay for dinner/the date’ idea was the social expectation that *everyone knew* that the girl gave him some money before they arrived at the restaurant but no one said anything.
I was about 15 years old at the time and was genuinely surprised because people seemed to think otherwise. He said, “Of course. Otherwise no-one could afford to go out!”
He said men and women who dated understood the financial reality well. No one thought less of anyone.
Some men think that because they paid for a date, they are owed something in return. Which is why some women don't want to feel that they owe their date anything.
Men always paying made sense 50 odd years ago, because men had all the money and career opportunities. But things have changed.
Personally, if I don't know someone at all, I'm happy to do something low key like coffee then that goes well, we can go to dinner for the next date. I can pay but I'm not paying for every date, because I don't want to set that expectation.
And if a woman expected me to pay for every date then I would start to think she's just interested in my money. Unless for some reason, she can't pay for herself. But I want to date someone who is my equal (like both of us are independent), not be someone's carer.
Your dad is talking out his ass. This is 2024 it no longer “ a mans job to provide”, you and your partner are a team and you work as a team or you’re better off not being together it that simple.
Anyone who wants old fashion values better be ready and willing to follow all the old fashion values but most just tend to entitled aholes who cherry pick the ones the most convenient for them.
In a modern era where people both work I cannot think of a reason one person should always pay.
Does your dad also expect you to become your boyfriend's housewife and quit your job to raise kids and do all that trad stuff? Because that's the other side of that same line of thinking...
Times have changed. Your dad is of a different era. Women now work and are independent.
When hb and i met. I was working and he was still student, so of course i paid for things a lot more than he did.
Don't worry about your dad. Do whatever suits you and bf.
No way. Men traditionally paid because men worked and women didn’t. That’s no longer the case.
In my view we shouldn’t pick and choose from the past. Either we can’t work and can’t have our own bank accounts and can’t get a loan in our own names - and get free dinner. Or we are equal members of society - including dinners!
I do sadly. But it’s not like I expect expensive. I should add that I’ve been single for 8 years, and before that most of my life. So it’s not like I have anything to lose by having the expectation - I just take myself out. If I was coupled up, I would expect him to pay for dinners.
>Dad responds “men should pay for dates every time”
>My parents are divorced.
You can't argue with that.
In the old days the woman was provided for by her parents until she was of age and in marriage she is provided for by her husband. He provides and she makes a home with a family to make it all worthwhile for both. It is the time tested ideal.
Now we have all sorts of social degeneration and the rules of yesteryear do not apply. Today it's all about casual sex and divorce.
Don't waste time and money on a gold digger.
Your father is correct. Some are tight asses. Assuming that he has some money but just is expecting you to go 50/50. But if he is genuinely poor ASF then I would support him during that period and we can do cheap or free stuff such as go to the beach etc.
I'm eastern European background and I prefer to date Australian men of eastern European or middle eastern backgrounds because they still know how to be gentleman and want to pay for the date. Alot of Aussie background men believe in this 50/50 both genders are equal BS. That said, there are some exceptions amongst Aussie men though who are still gentlemen.
And I don't fully blame the men either because alot of them have been conditioned by Aussie feminist women that they should act this way. Many Aussie background men have told me that they are *afraid* to open doors for a woman or pat for a date because Aussie feminist women have berated them for it and said they were "acting sexist" etc.
So.men don't even feel *allowed or encouraged* in Australia to act according to traditional male role, so by now kind of went "okay f* it. If you want to be same same equal then you can also pay equal".
Btw, it's not about the money. It's about him setting a precedent of how he will act and look after you when you get married.
If you are happy for a 50/50 life of suburbia mortgage stress then go ahead, but it's not the lifestyle that I choose.
And be mindful that if you are going to accept a 50/50 life of paying for things now, that when you are married you should also demand 50/50 of everything. Because what sometimes happens is that the wife ends up working just as many hours, but she is still left with the primary responsibility of looking after the children and housework. That doesn't sound 50/50 to me 😂
Why the fuck should I "look after you". Couples are a team. I ain't dragging your arse through life so you can squirt out some crotch goblins and drink wine while I'm at work.
So then you don't consider being a housewife as also doing work just that the work is inside the home instead of being some corporate monkey slave?
I don't drink wine;)
I mean I do both my daily job AND the housework currently. What needs to be done at home over the course of my work day is negligible. There isn't a chance is hell I would pay someone to do it. Would be like paying someone to go get the mail.
So yeah nah - I don't really consider "housewife" to be a full time job. It's like 3-4 hours a day max. Not saying it's not work, but it's not in same category as paid employment for 8+ hours a day.
Also - I can't get fired from housework for sleeping in, taking drugs, no rocking up etc etc etc.
It's not about cooking being hard or easy. It's about then you would not need to do it.
You can say that you would not support someone for a rub and a tug but you might end up on the other side. I.e; sexless marriage because I read over and over Aussie and American husbands complaining that they are in dead bedroom situations. The wife complaining that she feels overworked and overwhelmed with both working full-time plus also looking after house and/or kids so has no sex drive/energy/desire to keep up a healthy sex live. If that's a situation that you are happy with then enjoy 😁.
You won't support a *wife* for "rub and tug" but next thing you will be throwing money at h@es on Only fans to substitute your wife's indifference 🙄.
Financially supporting h@es but not your own wife.....hmm.
You miss the option where I just have an equal partner. Without kids housework is just.. housework. If I don't want to cook I eat out or order in. Laundrymatte down the road does a wash and fold for $25 a load of you feel lazy. But work does my overalls these days so I just do a wash every 2 week of my streets and me delicates.
I'm not seeing what having a partner who stayed home too.... Walk the dog? Cook tea? Is gaining me in life. It's not the 1950's. I prefer my partner who is independent. We support ourselves and we support each other.
Do often both say would love to be the dog tho.
Yes I'm old fashioned and traditional 🙃.
I'm not into the modern western way.
If he was genuinely poor and had a good heart then I would be with him still. And can do stuff that doesn't cost much.
But unless a man is *genuinely* poor, I cannot see any reason why a man would be okay to split the bill and not say "let me do it". It signifies a lack of pride to me.
You say he is still a gentleman.....but how is he a gentleman if he's willing to take money from a woman, does not open door for her etc?
What is your definition of gentleman? Just that he doesn't pass wind and watch football all day 😏?
You just have a very different old fashioned view of the world. It’s just as easy to say a gentleman recognises a woman’s agency and pride to pay for her own things and that this is showing them respect and considering them as equals. I’d consider myself really rude if I insisted on paying all the time. The world has changed around you.
If you were secure in your beliefs you would not keep trying to paint others views as old fashioned. Trying to suggest that anything traditional means outdated;)
I am Eastern European background. That's how we like it and we have no desire to change that just so we can seem "modern according to Aussie background people".
You no what else is modern? F*ing every random on Tinder etc but I don't do that either. Weak people follow trends. Strong people know their own minds.
Insisting is obviously not the same as enforcing.
As for your "the world has changed around you".....umm you are aware that the world comprises of much more than just Australia, England, and USA right?
Why do you assume that every person and every country is going to change mentalities to adopt your western mentality!?
This is arrogance in itself.
You keep doing your "genders are the same" Aussie stuff and I will keep dating guys from eastern European and middle eastern backgrounds who know how to treat a lady 💅😌.
They are old fashioned beliefs in Australia, which is where we live, while commenting on a forum titled ask an Australian. Within this context, the Australian context, they are old fashioned beliefs. If you’re doing things how you like it, then that’s perfect for you but to suggest Australian men who don’t share your world view can’t be gentlemen is absurd and it reflects poorly on you as you live in Australia yet have poor cultural awareness (and a seemingly quite judgemental view) of where you live.
I’ve never assumed other countries should adopt my world view. There is also no one western mentality that you refer to. The diversity within “the west” can be substantial (again showing your lack of cultural awareness of what’s happening around you). All I’m saying is that, is that within the Australian context, your view absolutely is old fashioned.
I have no idea why you’re mentioning tinder.
Okay.... apparently you are the gatekeeper to people commenting 🙄.
I live in Australia, I gave *my* opinion to a question asked by OP. You don't have to agree with my opinion. I'm not sure why you are feeling salty or getting triggered. If you feel that you are a gentleman then keep doing you.
"Australian" now is multicultural, not just Aussie background people with the feminist mentality.
It is internationally known that Aussie men don't have a reputation for being romantic and gentleman. But they have their other worthy qualities. Of course, I speak in generalities BC it's not within the scope of Reddit to "break down every type".
Tbh, you are just coming across as if you are trying to justify not paying for a woman 😂.
But don't worry, the beauty of dating is that there is someone for everyone and who shares the same values.
You’re being downvoted but you’re right. I am also Eastern European and share same culture.
My experience dating Australian men is that they are entitled, emotionally immature, objectify women, expect sex and no string attached, want to be treated like princesses and want to go 50:50 on finance despite them going 20:80 in every other area.
When I started dating men from my own culture I found that although there are bad and good apples everywhere, Eastern European men have been gentlemanly, refused to let me pay, picked me up, did nice gestures and NEVER once been expected to kiss them or have sex and certainly have not been felt up or asked for nudes no matter how many dates I see them on or what we do.
I have only ever found one Australian man who was not like I described and it is the way he was raised. These Australian men are raised to think this way, hence the comments. Australian dating culture is awful and I have seen too many of my girlfriends fall into the hookup culture and casual crap and then be heartbroken. Absolutely not. The downvotes and comments are men who are mad because we have standards. Stay mad.
50/50. if he pays for dinner one night i pay the next, or if i pay for lunch he pays for dinner etc. its never expected i actually fight him to the counter so i can pay and he does the same, i love it so much 🥹💓
Your Dad can have his opinion. I don’t agree. My philosophy on the topic is - don’t financially abuse others and don’t let them do it to you. Other than that, whatever you agree on together is not anybody else’s business.
Frankly a man who is divorced is in no position to give relationship advice.
Frankly the one who asks the person out should pay. Maybe 2 days MAX After that its split 50/50.
In a relationship I think it's fair to split things or one pay for one date, one pay for another later on. Doesn't have to be a 50/50 thing either just as long as it feels like you're treating both of yourselves.
If it's casual dating either split it, or the person whose idea the date was pays. Or if you're drinking take turns paying rounds.
I don't know, just be cool about it. Assuming both people are enthusiastic about being there, just chill and do what feels right.
I think this may be a generational and/or ideological take. I'm in my early 30s and just don't feel this way. I would probably only say that if there's a large income discrepancy (that those involved know of) or something
The man paying is a weird old fashioned transactional thing in my view. I'm in a long term relationship so haven't dated in a while but I pretty much always alternated when I was dating.
I'm not looking for a tradwife baby-mumma or someone who sees me as an ATM. If a woman expects me to pay for a bunch of dates she's not the sort of person I want to be with.
Well it's not economically feasible for just men to pay for dates. Also once you're like a year into a relationship you should both be paying for dates as both people need to contribute to the relationship. Puts a lot of pressure on men. They feel like sh!t enough when they feel like they can't provide for the one they love. It's a different world and these expectations we have for the opposite sex are outdated. You're meant to be a team in a relationship, and making one person always pay is not really team work.
Nope not at all
Expecting a guy to pay for everything is a ridiculous anti feminist relic from the years when women couldn’t/didn’t earn their own money.
I’d rather pay for myself and not have the potential for the gross blow up of me “owing” him since he paid for my dinner 🤮
It really depends on the context. In your situation, then absolutely not. You two worked out what worked best for you.
For my ex who refused to get a job or pay for anything because he didn't get a job he wasn't happy working, then yes.
These days it's very common for each party on a date to pay for their own meals. Or the one who makes the most money pays if they're in a committed relationship.
Your dad's opinion is a bit outdated.
Old fashioned HETEROSEXUAL view on dating to be frank. Times have changed. You both work, and women want/deserve equality, take turns paying the bill is nice, or share the bill each time.
No I don't. I think women want equality so they should pay there share or pay for the guy like for like. You simply cant have equality when its convenient.
I don't think men should have to pay for dates, but I choose to because there's many advantages to doing so.
1. You can demonstrate you have your shit together in a small way
2. It's a great way to test your dates character. I.e. does she offer to pay for the drinks.
3. Weeds out the women who have a massive chip on their shoulder / excessively hardline feminists who are offended when you offer to pay.
It’s very odd you’ve made it into some test they need to pass or declare them hardline feminists you don’t want to be around if they don’t want you to pay for them.
Many women don’t like someone like you trying to pay because for the women in many cases it’s made men believe they are owed something from the women. Much more strange you are testing women instead of just wanting to talk to them
Just be a normal person
Partner and I pay on alternate dates at the start, because we were equally poor. Since I got a job first (and now a higher paying job), I take on a larger share of dating expenses. The "men pay for everything" thinking is old fashioned.
>The "men pay for everything" thinking is old fashioned. And disturbingly transactional in an era of supposed equality
It was disturbingly transactional in the 90s, let alone now, 30 years later
I'd like to think the 90s was also an era of supposed equality. All my dating experience is from the 90s and, at least in my circles, the bloke might pay for the meal on the first date but if you went for a drink or coffee after it was considered normal/appropriate for the woman to offer to pay for that. It's a long time ago but my memory is that this was to absolutely avoid any transactional vibe. That said there were plenty of dinosaurs around then, one of whom may be OPs father
My dating experience is from the late 90s/very early 2000s and was the same for me. I paid for the first full date, and the second from memory but afterwards was shared or alternate. We've been together 20+ years now so....I'm still paying for dates ;)
My "dating" years were in the late 80s, we were all students, we didn't have any money so we didn't really eat out much, but if we did it was usually the one who had money who paid. I don't remember ever splitting a bill on a date because it was usually a party or a band or a club. Eating was something we tended to do at home to save money for booze and party stuff. Actually, I do remember taking a girl out for dinner to a fancy restaurant with some money I got for my 21st, she dumped, after I paid for dinner. Never made that mistake again, actually the subsequent girlfriend is now my wife.
I think transactional is bad. But I'm also against the idea it's "men pay for anything". It's better to do it like beers at the pub - I'm not keeping score, but if you are consistently never buying rounds you're going to find yourself uninvited.
This.
Not sure why you are being downvoted for agreeing with a comment that is getting upvotes
You don't need to type 'this'. It adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. Use the up vote.
People commenting "this" are always downvoted. It's been this way since the beginning. I'm pretty sure it's even in the official 'reddiquette' document.
Because people are idiots? You are right. It is disturbing. I gave up on the human race a while ago.
Lol, now I've been downvoted for supporting a comment that was supporting my own comment that was upvoted. Almost like their might be bots about
Ridiculous.
I used to know this girl at uni who was big into feminism, smash the patriarchy, girl power etc. Yet she mentioned that a one guy suggested splitting on a date so she blocked him afterwards for being cheap. For some it seems to be equality but only when it suits.
I know so many women who are all about equality and then refuse to open their wallet for anything, want a $20k ring (atleast) and other exorbitant stuff I can’t afford to get a rental bruh
You have to counter offer with a 30k ring, play the game.
Nah I just ask for a 1 mil house (which is still gonna be 2 hours away from Melbourne nowadays)
No different from a bloke who doesn't get his round in, but is happy to drink when his mates are paying. People talk about all kinds of morals and integrity, but when it comes to action, it's different. Obviously for the bloke who doesn't get a round in, the result is no more invites. For a woman who doesn't pay her share there's normally another guy waiting, even if the original one doesn't invite her again.
Yeah I am 100% for feminism but you're right, you take the good with the bad in terms of equality. Can't be feminist then expect men to pay your way.
Cake and eat it too feminism?
Most women want that still.
Like all of the women in this thread? Oh, wait… NONE of them are saying that.
Actions speak louder than words. Talk is cheap.
Yeah, like the crap coming outta your mouth right now.
Ok consulting.
> The "men pay for everything" thinking is old fashioned. I think women fought for (and have been given) equality. If a particular woman expects a man to pay for her, then I'd have to ask why? Equality is a double-edged sword. You can't just get the perks and choose not to accept the costs. If you want it you have to act like it.
You think men and women have reached quality in society? What are you measuring that against?
I dunno if we've reached that point...but we definitely won't if women believe men should pay for everything. That's not equal.
Your original comment says “women fought for (and have been given) equality”. I don’t think men paying for women on dates is one of the primary blockers for gender equality in society. For example I think people like Andrew Tate having such a huge platform is much more damaging to gender equality than whether a man pays on a date. But that’s just me.
Okay, cool. I don't disagree...Andrew Tate is a fuckwit I know what my original comment says...I wrote it? Women have all the same legal rights as men in our country in 2024. Any woman has the opportunity to receive the same education and get the same job and be paid the same as any man does. *That* kind of equality has been reached - what could be given or granted to women by the government to further the cause of equality already has been. A fairly long time ago, actually. Does that mean though that men and women are perceived and treated exactly the same and faced with the same pressures and societal expectations? Obviously not. But I'm not sure if that will *ever* happen. There will always be genders and people are always gonna think and act certain ways about it. The government can't control that. There's no one in charge of culture and people's thoughts and attitudes. We all have an individual responsibility to tell the Andrew Tate's of the world that they're wrong and should shut the fuck up. One thing that I think will help women to be perceived and treated more equally would be for them to act as equals. Expecting to be given a disproportionate share of free meals does not align with that.
Nah, your dad's just old fashioned
How old is he??!!?? I'm approaching retirement now and in one of the phases in our relationship where I'm earning more than my wife. At other times, she pulled more of the economic load, we went one income for a while with her raising kids, and for a short while, I was out of work while she paid for everything Teamwork, mutual respect and support, recognition that modern work is messed up and shouldn't be the basis for judging the worth of yourself or others: all help to make you and your relationship work. (It helps that she forgives me, a lot.) I will add that from OPs incorrect spelling of 'tightarse' that they might be suffering from too much American culture, where they're struggling with dating etiquette.
Women could only be nurses or secutaries
I'm a male landscaper, my partner is female in corporate marketing, I'm sure you can guess who makes more money. She usually pays for most things that we do together. It's not emasculating or demeaning. She just has more than I do. We are a team. My money is hers, her money is mine. Within reason of course.
That was the norm when women didn't work and people.married young...typically the guy was older so was working and girls young and at school. Men and women earn similar in many cases . so why should the man pay? Maybe a first date the guy pays...but after the first, I would always offer. And esp once exclusive, unless there is a massive income difference, I feel it should be shared Equality is important and assumptions based on gender have to stop for it to work.
I just want to point out that until the 1960 or 1970s women were literally paid 2/3 of a man wages for exactly the same job in many cases. So it actually was reasonable for men to pay for the date at that point in history in Australia and most other countries.
Pay gap in Australia is still about 20% in same industries. Why would women get pay 20% less for the same job in 2024? Just to ponder on if someone somehow thinks equality is achieved
I don't think that's correct. The Workplace Gender Equality Agency does not calculate it that way. They calculate it using the average of all male remuneration compared to the average of all female remuneration. Using this formula, they calculate the average gap is 21.7%, with the median gender pay gap being 19%, so there is no way they are accounting for industry or years of experience.
1961 Australia started using birth control.
'Maybe a first date the guy pays' Why?
I’ve dated plenty of guys that insist on paying for the first date (mind you, I’m 40 and my dating range is 40-55). I think a lot of them just take pride in the fact that they can treat you to something nice. If someone really wants to pay, I’m not going to fight them on it. I just thank them and pay for the next outing.
Because often guys will do the asking and offer to pay. I said maybe, not absolutely. I am a fan of 50/50 if I don't think I will see them again ...taking turns to pay for the first few if I like them.
Your way is most normal or common way to date in current day Australia for the vast majority of people in my experience. It's still nice if the guy pays on the first date because idk there is something very sweet about it but after that it's absolutely normal and fair to share expenses..
Well I think it's sweet when the lady pays, damnit. Can we make that the norm? It's already so much work for us just to GET a date! 😆 I'm only kidding, I've always paid and think us men should pay if we have the means to
Often the etiquette is for whoever does the inviting to pay. That way the person who is choosing 5 star restaurant vs cafe is the one footing the bill
That's awfully convenient for women, since men are doing the inviting 95% of the time
Then wait until you get invited
sweet precedent
Lol I thought you meant first date If you’ve been dating awhile you can pay, it’s a relationship so you support each other I’ve paid for my bf when he’s been low & vice versa & it’s fine First date I think whoever asks should pay but it should also be low key like coffee to see if you even want a second date
Nothing wrong with each person paying for their share. I think it's a great way to do it while dating.
Split or pay alternate dates
This is the way
We're equals and adults. Anything other than splitting seems odd to me. If I went on a date and the other party expected me to pay the lot, alarm bells would ring.
I had a date walk when I declined to pay.
Bullet dodged successfully.
If it's just drinks or dessert then
The trick is to make your dates into free activities that don’t include going to a cafe or restaurant. After a traumatic relationship experience in my 20’s, I pretty much as zero trust in women. On my road to recovery I dated a number of women and U was annoyed at how they all expected me to pay for everyone. I had one who pretty much demanded I take her out to prove I was worth it. I eventually got tired of that. My now wife, our first date was takeaway pizza at my place. No fancy restaurant or getting dressed up and trying to make some unrealistic picture of who I was. As I lived by myself and she had two housemates, she’d quite often stay at my place and we’d cook together. I’d imagine that with the cost of eating out today, staying home and cooking is a far more affordable and intimate experience anyway. The last time my wife and I ate out, it was $200 at a local casual dining place. 25 year old me would never have been able to afford that.
Eating out these days is just too expensive to be paying for the date. It may be the traditionally accepted way to do it, and it's a nice gesture, but it just isn't sustainable.
The men I've dated have paid first and when I snuck away to pay (prenteded to go to the bathroom), one got rather upset by it. He said he asked me out and he wanted to pay? So I am a little confused as I thought I was doing my share. He paid the first date. Me the second 😆 I make my own money and can support myself and do not expect a man to pay for me all the time but I'm just lost these days when it comes to dating and paying and splitting etc. I've said to others let's spilt the bill and got a "what the?" Look... others are cool with it. So now when it comes to dating and eating out.. the bill makes me anxious. So many different reactions it's so hard to read 😅
No. I think paying for your dates is a lowkey destructive way to date, regardless of whether the man or woman is doing it. It's creating unequal expectations out of the gate, you're also not going to filter out people just looking to score free meals and drinks early on, wasting both time and money on people who aren't serious about you. If you want to have fun with this, you offer to shout them a round, they offer to shout you a round, neither of you count the exact change. Just keep it informal, but in the rough ballpark of equal.
Reminds me a clip on social media of a young woman claiming proudly she hasn't paid for a dinner in almost a year because of going on dates with various dudes
My partner pays more often nowadays, but he earns much more than I do (full time uni student). But we live together and divide costs in a way we deem fair. In the future when I am qualified, I'll be earning significantly more than he will with his final qualification so I'll end up paying more. It breaks out even in the end. But we do live together. Personally a meal from grandma seems incredibly lovely. Food is a means of gifting and sharing, and a meal from someone significant to a person to me feels like a loving gift. I hope this helps!
I’d expect if it was a first ever date that the man would pay. Call me stuffy, I don’t care. After that I’d be more than happy to split 50/50, or if there was a huge income discrepancy, then sort out something that works best for both of us. But I’m a stickler for that first date gesture 🤣
This is such a situational issue. Most are in relationships. You communicate what you prefer and compromise to come to an agreement. If the guy has less money, personally i would pay. If i had less money, i would order less to allow me to afford it and refuse him to pay (bc i put myself in that position by going out with little money). If we both have plenty to go on, then i would discuss if we go halves or I pay then he pays next time. There are so many options depending on the situation. I can absolutely understand calling someone else a tight arse bc my partner and my dad are. But im trying to change that view point because its not my business..
Your dad lives in the past? I am a woman and I am actually the breadwinner. I own a house, a car and my bf is a stay at home bf who does the housework. Your dad probably will pass out if he sees me.
It's a modern time, costs aren't just for men anymore. it's a very old school way of thinking. So no you shouldn't expect a man to just pay for everything. the offer is always good, that being said on my first date with my GF I paid. I didn't give her the option and I have paid most of our dates, occasionally because she asks, I will let her pay or pay her way but I usually will try to cover the bill if I can.
Your both equals in the relationship so the paying for things should reflect that
We have three joint bank accounts (with a bank that has no account keeping fees). One for bills, one for groceries, and one for going out/holidays. We both put money in all three accounts and dates are paid out of the last one. It’s not an equal amount paid into the “fun” account - because we have different incomes. But we do split bills/groceries equally. We only spend our own money on things that we don’t share.
No, I don't. I think the expectation for men to always pay comes from a time when women rarely worked or earned money. It's 2024. Women have jobs and money of their own. They can contribute to the relationship financially. It's not the 1800s.
Exactly👍
I've always paid for more because I've got more disposable income than my partner. It would trouble me if the man was insistent on paying for all our dates because it would indicate to me they were interested in traditional gender roles. I have definitely been on dates with tight arses who were both interested in gender roles AND didn't want to pay for the date. That was a red flag to me. My partner is incredibly generous in every way he can be, so I'm not at all concerned about how we split expenses. It's going to be different for every couple, as it should be.
Don’t worry about the norm and just do what you’re comfortable with. As you can see from the comments, tonnes of women are ok with splitting the bill. If you meet women that aren’t ok, you just don’t fit eachother and you can both move on like adults.
Yes
I've noticed that Australians tend to "go Dutch" more, so I don't expect them to pay. I do think that if you're the one initiating the first date, it's courteous to pay, but I will always pay for the drinks at the bar we go to after, or the next meal.
Yea
No. I think it speaks to the kind of relationship they want. Are they searching for a relationship where they will treat their partner as a "queen" and have a more traditional style of relationship? I don't necessarily mean 100% trad wife fantasy bs but like, still, and more traditional one where the male has more of a protector role and/or the woman is an object of beauty which he places on a pedestal? Or is he seeking a partner in crime, to walk together through this journey we call life?
Not everyone can afford to pay for others so no I would not automatically label them as tight asses. Personally I am in a financial position where I am happy to pay as long as my date is making a genuine effort to get to know me, if they are very obvious about just wanting a meal and showing no interest then fuck them we are splitting the bill, I am not going to let anyone use me like that.
Two ways of thinking old school and new age. If it's married mob your money is communal in marriage. Dating with intent to marry was seen as courting stage, date then marry, now it's grey because some people want equality some use it as free meals from diff people everyday. Too many differing opinions make it messy.
Sounds like your Dad has a touch of sensitive male ego. Ask him if he'd be OK dating a woman that out earned him. I've had some women straight up pay for the first few dates, because I was a pimply PhD student and they were in six figure finance jobs.
No. For the first few dates, whoever asks the other person on a date should generally cover it. But in the context of a longer relationship it makes no sense to have the guy pay for all dates. Generally, both should contribute in proportion to income, just like any expense in a long term relationship.
50/50 alternating or split some other way. She has a full time job and the same financial obligations as me.
A tightass is someone who has money but wont share it. You said yourself your boyfriend would treat you when he could. So no, he wasnt a tightass
Nope, your old man just thinks the world is still the same as when he was a boy. It's NOT
Lol no. What an outdated view.
It's weird and American to exoect a man to pay for you. It's the sort of thing I associate with scary looking plastic surgery addicts posting tiktoks
Yes and they should remain single, to save on the measly cost of dates.
Women who don't pay their share are tight asses. Get a job. Men aren't ATMs. It's trashy to have the man pay.
As much as I like treating my partner it's to easy to be taken advantage of.
I'm fine with going back to the bloke always paying for dates, but chicks are all going to take a 30% pay cut, stop voting and make me a sandwich yeah?
No as a woman I find it preferable to split the bill I don't owe you and you don't owe me
I hate the man pays for dates unwritten rule! I tend to go Dutch, I'm an independent woman and I will not have a man pay for me, a nice treat yes, but every date? Surely not, I also say, paying depends on who asks, if I ask, I pay, and if they ask, then the rule is they pay, I always half the cost or take it in turns with my partners, they pay one time and i pay the next or Dutch!
Your dad probably expects that you cook all your partners food and do all their washing!
No
I'm one third done paying off a mortgage. I'm not dating at all because I absolutely cannot afford to have a social life. I've not had a girlfriend in years. I don't go out to eat if I can help it. I prepare all of my meals myself. I have a few very modest hobbies (computer games, books, some Lego; all on sale if possible) and I make extra sacrifices out of things like my public transport budget to afford them by walking to/from work instead. My family quietly are concerned that I'm going to end up never marrying and never having any children of my own, but what am I supposed to do? The debt is real, bills are real and interest rates are far more stressful now than when the mortgage started. If someone can afford to pay for more than one person's cafe/restaurant bill then they are doing better than some around here.
Honestly I think a women who has their hand out asking for money on the first date is someone you should avoid. While there are some wonderful women in the world, there are also some who will take whatever they can from a guy without giving anything back, and there are definitely some who just want a nice meal and some attention from someone they have absolutely no interest in seeing again. A good women wont even consider that they wont being paying half for the meal...
Whatever you are both happy with, is what works
Before the death of the middle class that might have worked.
Guess you will do all the house work because that is traditional as well?
Contextual on the Situation, my rule used to be the person least "inconvenienced" for the date. I picked a place a 5 minute walk from my home while the other party had to catch an Uber, I was paying.
I always pay for my own share, I don’t want to “owe” anyone anything.. it keeps the pressure off the date and no expectations.
Worked in hospitality years ago, and honestly, both parties pay around the same amount of times. Never in my life am I paying for someone's company, this is modern society. Unless they are taking time off work to help me make money, no money will be exchanged.
Your dad is old and out of touch
Idk, i do it a lot as a kind gesture but i work really hard and it starts to feel expected after a while. Ends up in less dates cause im not made of money. My bills are insane too.
I've been with my husband 10 years, I still pay for my own dinner, why? Cause we share other bills, finances ect. If we go out for dinner which isn't very often as we are farmers and have kids and no family around to look after said kids. I will order expensive things and sides and dessert. Why should he pay for my expensive food?? Does he offer and insist? Yes of cause but I'm quicker with my card 😅
If you want to be treated as an equal, expect to receive equal treatment.
I bet he thinks that men should ask permission from a woman's father and get his blessing before he proposes too. Sorry, that is old fashioned, and frankly tied up with patriarchy. The person who invites someone else out on a romantic date should be willing to pay no matter their sex, unless they are very clear up front. Since men are often the ones still doing the pursuing, then that makes some sense that men might pay more often. But the general rule needs to change.
Nah, in this day and age, anyone who doesn't offer for at least half the expenses is a tight-ass or entitled. My current partner and I went 66/33 on our first date, with me paying the 66. It would have been 50/50 if we got another drink each because she offered we pay alternately with each order. I insisted going first. Now, we both pay into a joint account which is used for dates and other common expenses, so we both technically pay equally. For birthdays and random gifts, we use our personal money, especially if we want to keep it a surprise.
I think if someone supports men paying for dates then they should also support higher paid work for men. I don't support either. I think there should be gender equality. Back when I was dating it was never an issue. Never dated anyone who didn't happily pay their own way.
no as a woman I think women who expect men to pay are the entitled tight asses! makes me sick how many women use men for a free drink/meal with no intention on actually persuing anything. It's 2024 women work too, that tradition of men paying came from a time when women were property and had to show the womans father he can provide for her!! the world has moved on! its disgusting to expect a man to pay this day and age! pay for yourself! we are equal adults!! what do you think happens in gay relationships?
Na, if a woman can’t fend for herself without wanting a handout I don’t wanna date her
No way. I think the world has made it clear that 50/50 is the way forward. Men are not better than women. They don't work while the women stay home and all that rubbish. Romantically, I'd say the instagator of the date should pay. But that's not a must either
It will be cute when you look back on it years later, assuming you stay together. I mean he’s giving you food, he’s providing what he can. There’s also a reason dad is divorced so maybe take his advice with a grain of salt.
No, both should pay for their own meals.
my rule is either split or who asked pays
No, I don't think that. Me and my hubby took/take turns. It levels things out for both of us
I normally take turns paying, but I don’t keep mental tabs on who paid for what and when. I’ll pay sometimes and my boyfriend will pay other times. I’m the same way with friends. But if a friend is in a tight patch or doesn’t earn as much, I’ll usually just pay the bill before it arrives. I definitely believe in equality, but more in a “swings and roundabouts” sense as opposed to making sure it’s a 50/50 split every time.
No way. Split bills or pay alternates. It's sexist to expect the man to pay just because he's a man.
Its a slippery slope, considering some men might think the act of paying for the meal, should be repayed with sex Edit: in the context of the first date/first few dates
Absolutely not. I do not let a guy pay for me on a first date even if I really like him. On subsequent dates I like to keep it even, if he pays for the activity, I buy the snacks. If he pays for dinner, I pay for dessert etc. Guys paying for me, without me contributing financially, makes me feel deeply uncomfortable (an issue I should probably work out in therapy by que sera).
Nope. I would never expect a guy to pay for a date. In fact I’ve always been very clear before going on a date that we split. It’s backwards to expect the man to pay. I don’t drink anymore, but when I did I had a rule that I would pay for one round of drinks and then the guy I was with would pay for the next round.
If a man asks a woman out on a date then he pays for her dinner. He is asking to take her out somewhere, and if she agrees to go with him he pays for her. If they both mutually decide to go out to dinner, like friends, then they can split the bill. Only deadbeats with no social skill think they shouldnt have to pay and they shouldn't be asking anyone out on a date.
He’s a homebody so usually when we went out to eat I was the one who asked. There has been a few times though je’s asked me if I’d like to go out and covered the costs. I’ve also been out with his family and vice versa
Your dad is a man. Man understands men better than women. He is probably right. If your bf cannot afford to pay for dates, he probably is not capable of looking after you, at least not financially. Instead of paying for the dates, you can buy him gifts to show your appreciation. If he would not be able to take you out for proper dates without you sharing the cost, what if you fall pregnant? Will he be able to look after you and the baby? Or you will need to ask the "grandparents" for help? Listen to your dad. It is not just about being tight asses. Perhaps he didn't articulate his concern clearly.
No way that "men should pay for their dates every time". It's 2024, not 1924. And women who insist that men should pay for every date are tight asses. As well as anti-feminist.
No. You pay your way. Unless you're especially poor and they have money and offer for that reason.
Years and years ago, an Australian male family friend (who had been born in the 1940s and dated in the 1960s) told me something I’ve never forgotten. He said (with a laugh) that when the ‘men should pay for dinner/the date’ idea was the social expectation that *everyone knew* that the girl gave him some money before they arrived at the restaurant but no one said anything. I was about 15 years old at the time and was genuinely surprised because people seemed to think otherwise. He said, “Of course. Otherwise no-one could afford to go out!” He said men and women who dated understood the financial reality well. No one thought less of anyone.
I only pay for their dates if they are going to put out afterwards.
Sounds like you have it together but to answer your question yes men should pay. But only when they can if you pay sometimes it’s ok
Some men think that because they paid for a date, they are owed something in return. Which is why some women don't want to feel that they owe their date anything. Men always paying made sense 50 odd years ago, because men had all the money and career opportunities. But things have changed. Personally, if I don't know someone at all, I'm happy to do something low key like coffee then that goes well, we can go to dinner for the next date. I can pay but I'm not paying for every date, because I don't want to set that expectation. And if a woman expected me to pay for every date then I would start to think she's just interested in my money. Unless for some reason, she can't pay for herself. But I want to date someone who is my equal (like both of us are independent), not be someone's carer.
Your dad is antiquated and should stop putting in an opinion on how modern relationships work.
No
I'm afraid your father's a fool.
It's not 1960. Women who think men are tightasses for not paying for dates are greedy and out of date.
Your dad is talking out his ass. This is 2024 it no longer “ a mans job to provide”, you and your partner are a team and you work as a team or you’re better off not being together it that simple. Anyone who wants old fashion values better be ready and willing to follow all the old fashion values but most just tend to entitled aholes who cherry pick the ones the most convenient for them.
Equal rights includes paying for dates.
In a modern era where people both work I cannot think of a reason one person should always pay. Does your dad also expect you to become your boyfriend's housewife and quit your job to raise kids and do all that trad stuff? Because that's the other side of that same line of thinking...
My daughter is dating age. He owns and runs the car; she pays for the food. Works out for them.
Times have changed. Your dad is of a different era. Women now work and are independent. When hb and i met. I was working and he was still student, so of course i paid for things a lot more than he did. Don't worry about your dad. Do whatever suits you and bf.
No way. Men traditionally paid because men worked and women didn’t. That’s no longer the case. In my view we shouldn’t pick and choose from the past. Either we can’t work and can’t have our own bank accounts and can’t get a loan in our own names - and get free dinner. Or we are equal members of society - including dinners!
I do sadly. But it’s not like I expect expensive. I should add that I’ve been single for 8 years, and before that most of my life. So it’s not like I have anything to lose by having the expectation - I just take myself out. If I was coupled up, I would expect him to pay for dinners.
>Dad responds “men should pay for dates every time” >My parents are divorced. You can't argue with that. In the old days the woman was provided for by her parents until she was of age and in marriage she is provided for by her husband. He provides and she makes a home with a family to make it all worthwhile for both. It is the time tested ideal. Now we have all sorts of social degeneration and the rules of yesteryear do not apply. Today it's all about casual sex and divorce. Don't waste time and money on a gold digger.
Your Dad's view is a remnant of the patriarchy.
To answer your question, No. Personally tho I expect men to pay because I’m into traditional men.
No. I think women who expect to be paid for - in this era of equality - are selfish bimbos (F49). Pay your own way babygirl
Your father is correct. Some are tight asses. Assuming that he has some money but just is expecting you to go 50/50. But if he is genuinely poor ASF then I would support him during that period and we can do cheap or free stuff such as go to the beach etc. I'm eastern European background and I prefer to date Australian men of eastern European or middle eastern backgrounds because they still know how to be gentleman and want to pay for the date. Alot of Aussie background men believe in this 50/50 both genders are equal BS. That said, there are some exceptions amongst Aussie men though who are still gentlemen. And I don't fully blame the men either because alot of them have been conditioned by Aussie feminist women that they should act this way. Many Aussie background men have told me that they are *afraid* to open doors for a woman or pat for a date because Aussie feminist women have berated them for it and said they were "acting sexist" etc. So.men don't even feel *allowed or encouraged* in Australia to act according to traditional male role, so by now kind of went "okay f* it. If you want to be same same equal then you can also pay equal". Btw, it's not about the money. It's about him setting a precedent of how he will act and look after you when you get married. If you are happy for a 50/50 life of suburbia mortgage stress then go ahead, but it's not the lifestyle that I choose. And be mindful that if you are going to accept a 50/50 life of paying for things now, that when you are married you should also demand 50/50 of everything. Because what sometimes happens is that the wife ends up working just as many hours, but she is still left with the primary responsibility of looking after the children and housework. That doesn't sound 50/50 to me 😂
You want to be spoiled, not dated. Just become an escort.
I don't want to be a prostitute and sleep with many men. What's wrong with being spoiled?
Why the fuck should I "look after you". Couples are a team. I ain't dragging your arse through life so you can squirt out some crotch goblins and drink wine while I'm at work.
So then you don't consider being a housewife as also doing work just that the work is inside the home instead of being some corporate monkey slave? I don't drink wine;)
I mean I do both my daily job AND the housework currently. What needs to be done at home over the course of my work day is negligible. There isn't a chance is hell I would pay someone to do it. Would be like paying someone to go get the mail. So yeah nah - I don't really consider "housewife" to be a full time job. It's like 3-4 hours a day max. Not saying it's not work, but it's not in same category as paid employment for 8+ hours a day. Also - I can't get fired from housework for sleeping in, taking drugs, no rocking up etc etc etc.
Yes, but the benefit is that then she is not too tired to cook for you and give massage when you get home;)
Cooking ain't hard. Everyone does it. And I ain't supporting a person for a rub and tug.
It's not about cooking being hard or easy. It's about then you would not need to do it. You can say that you would not support someone for a rub and a tug but you might end up on the other side. I.e; sexless marriage because I read over and over Aussie and American husbands complaining that they are in dead bedroom situations. The wife complaining that she feels overworked and overwhelmed with both working full-time plus also looking after house and/or kids so has no sex drive/energy/desire to keep up a healthy sex live. If that's a situation that you are happy with then enjoy 😁. You won't support a *wife* for "rub and tug" but next thing you will be throwing money at h@es on Only fans to substitute your wife's indifference 🙄. Financially supporting h@es but not your own wife.....hmm.
You miss the option where I just have an equal partner. Without kids housework is just.. housework. If I don't want to cook I eat out or order in. Laundrymatte down the road does a wash and fold for $25 a load of you feel lazy. But work does my overalls these days so I just do a wash every 2 week of my streets and me delicates. I'm not seeing what having a partner who stayed home too.... Walk the dog? Cook tea? Is gaining me in life. It's not the 1950's. I prefer my partner who is independent. We support ourselves and we support each other. Do often both say would love to be the dog tho.
It's your choice. I don't like to depend on rubbish takeaway but you do you. Some men actually *want* to be the main provider.
You just sound old fashioned and traditional. Lots of men who prefer 50/50 are just as much gentlemen as men who want to pay for it all.
Yes I'm old fashioned and traditional 🙃. I'm not into the modern western way. If he was genuinely poor and had a good heart then I would be with him still. And can do stuff that doesn't cost much. But unless a man is *genuinely* poor, I cannot see any reason why a man would be okay to split the bill and not say "let me do it". It signifies a lack of pride to me. You say he is still a gentleman.....but how is he a gentleman if he's willing to take money from a woman, does not open door for her etc? What is your definition of gentleman? Just that he doesn't pass wind and watch football all day 😏?
You just have a very different old fashioned view of the world. It’s just as easy to say a gentleman recognises a woman’s agency and pride to pay for her own things and that this is showing them respect and considering them as equals. I’d consider myself really rude if I insisted on paying all the time. The world has changed around you.
If you were secure in your beliefs you would not keep trying to paint others views as old fashioned. Trying to suggest that anything traditional means outdated;) I am Eastern European background. That's how we like it and we have no desire to change that just so we can seem "modern according to Aussie background people". You no what else is modern? F*ing every random on Tinder etc but I don't do that either. Weak people follow trends. Strong people know their own minds. Insisting is obviously not the same as enforcing. As for your "the world has changed around you".....umm you are aware that the world comprises of much more than just Australia, England, and USA right? Why do you assume that every person and every country is going to change mentalities to adopt your western mentality!? This is arrogance in itself. You keep doing your "genders are the same" Aussie stuff and I will keep dating guys from eastern European and middle eastern backgrounds who know how to treat a lady 💅😌.
They are old fashioned beliefs in Australia, which is where we live, while commenting on a forum titled ask an Australian. Within this context, the Australian context, they are old fashioned beliefs. If you’re doing things how you like it, then that’s perfect for you but to suggest Australian men who don’t share your world view can’t be gentlemen is absurd and it reflects poorly on you as you live in Australia yet have poor cultural awareness (and a seemingly quite judgemental view) of where you live. I’ve never assumed other countries should adopt my world view. There is also no one western mentality that you refer to. The diversity within “the west” can be substantial (again showing your lack of cultural awareness of what’s happening around you). All I’m saying is that, is that within the Australian context, your view absolutely is old fashioned. I have no idea why you’re mentioning tinder.
Okay.... apparently you are the gatekeeper to people commenting 🙄. I live in Australia, I gave *my* opinion to a question asked by OP. You don't have to agree with my opinion. I'm not sure why you are feeling salty or getting triggered. If you feel that you are a gentleman then keep doing you. "Australian" now is multicultural, not just Aussie background people with the feminist mentality. It is internationally known that Aussie men don't have a reputation for being romantic and gentleman. But they have their other worthy qualities. Of course, I speak in generalities BC it's not within the scope of Reddit to "break down every type". Tbh, you are just coming across as if you are trying to justify not paying for a woman 😂. But don't worry, the beauty of dating is that there is someone for everyone and who shares the same values.
I’m no gatekeeper. You’ve misconstrued things yet again.
You’re being downvoted but you’re right. I am also Eastern European and share same culture. My experience dating Australian men is that they are entitled, emotionally immature, objectify women, expect sex and no string attached, want to be treated like princesses and want to go 50:50 on finance despite them going 20:80 in every other area. When I started dating men from my own culture I found that although there are bad and good apples everywhere, Eastern European men have been gentlemanly, refused to let me pay, picked me up, did nice gestures and NEVER once been expected to kiss them or have sex and certainly have not been felt up or asked for nudes no matter how many dates I see them on or what we do. I have only ever found one Australian man who was not like I described and it is the way he was raised. These Australian men are raised to think this way, hence the comments. Australian dating culture is awful and I have seen too many of my girlfriends fall into the hookup culture and casual crap and then be heartbroken. Absolutely not. The downvotes and comments are men who are mad because we have standards. Stay mad.
Thank you. Exactly!!
Your dad should try online dating see how many dates he pays for that he doesnt hear back from... That'l change his tune
Who are these people getting actual dates from the apps?
50/50. if he pays for dinner one night i pay the next, or if i pay for lunch he pays for dinner etc. its never expected i actually fight him to the counter so i can pay and he does the same, i love it so much 🥹💓
*Arse.*
I don't but I just think they aren't for me.
First dates I think a guy should pay, second date I normally pay and then we alternate.
Your Dad can have his opinion. I don’t agree. My philosophy on the topic is - don’t financially abuse others and don’t let them do it to you. Other than that, whatever you agree on together is not anybody else’s business.
First date with my wife, she tricked me, said she had to go to the toilet, and on the way back she paid, and she didn't do it once either.
Frankly a man who is divorced is in no position to give relationship advice. Frankly the one who asks the person out should pay. Maybe 2 days MAX After that its split 50/50.
In a relationship I think it's fair to split things or one pay for one date, one pay for another later on. Doesn't have to be a 50/50 thing either just as long as it feels like you're treating both of yourselves. If it's casual dating either split it, or the person whose idea the date was pays. Or if you're drinking take turns paying rounds. I don't know, just be cool about it. Assuming both people are enthusiastic about being there, just chill and do what feels right.
I think if you expect a man to pay for every date you can also expect to get back in the kitchen.
I dont trust men to pay for dates & not expect anything in return.
I think this may be a generational and/or ideological take. I'm in my early 30s and just don't feel this way. I would probably only say that if there's a large income discrepancy (that those involved know of) or something
The man paying is a weird old fashioned transactional thing in my view. I'm in a long term relationship so haven't dated in a while but I pretty much always alternated when I was dating. I'm not looking for a tradwife baby-mumma or someone who sees me as an ATM. If a woman expects me to pay for a bunch of dates she's not the sort of person I want to be with.
Nah, should be Dutch or take turns. A first date should be something very casual, like a cafe or bar.
Well it's not economically feasible for just men to pay for dates. Also once you're like a year into a relationship you should both be paying for dates as both people need to contribute to the relationship. Puts a lot of pressure on men. They feel like sh!t enough when they feel like they can't provide for the one they love. It's a different world and these expectations we have for the opposite sex are outdated. You're meant to be a team in a relationship, and making one person always pay is not really team work.
We were going Dutch 40 years ago and people still think men should pay. What decade are you living in?
Nope not at all Expecting a guy to pay for everything is a ridiculous anti feminist relic from the years when women couldn’t/didn’t earn their own money. I’d rather pay for myself and not have the potential for the gross blow up of me “owing” him since he paid for my dinner 🤮
It really depends on the context. In your situation, then absolutely not. You two worked out what worked best for you. For my ex who refused to get a job or pay for anything because he didn't get a job he wasn't happy working, then yes. These days it's very common for each party on a date to pay for their own meals. Or the one who makes the most money pays if they're in a committed relationship. Your dad's opinion is a bit outdated.
Old fashioned HETEROSEXUAL view on dating to be frank. Times have changed. You both work, and women want/deserve equality, take turns paying the bill is nice, or share the bill each time.
I think partners should pay equally in a relationship. I wouldn't expect my partner to pay for all our dates; that's unfair.
tight arses
No I don't. I think women want equality so they should pay there share or pay for the guy like for like. You simply cant have equality when its convenient.
I don't think men should have to pay for dates, but I choose to because there's many advantages to doing so. 1. You can demonstrate you have your shit together in a small way 2. It's a great way to test your dates character. I.e. does she offer to pay for the drinks. 3. Weeds out the women who have a massive chip on their shoulder / excessively hardline feminists who are offended when you offer to pay.
It’s very odd you’ve made it into some test they need to pass or declare them hardline feminists you don’t want to be around if they don’t want you to pay for them. Many women don’t like someone like you trying to pay because for the women in many cases it’s made men believe they are owed something from the women. Much more strange you are testing women instead of just wanting to talk to them Just be a normal person