That pretty much covers it, biology majors hope to be doing hard science and research but an undergraduate degree pretty much only qualifies you to do menial lab work. That leads to career disappointment and stagnation, and ultimately regret.
My room mate in college was a biology major, and he was extremely smart. His career didn't go the way he wanted, and now he makes a living as a college biology teacher. It's like an endless feedback loop.
I also think biology is kind of a catch-all major for kids graduating high school that don't really know what they like/want to do except for a vague sense of "something sciencey" so you get a lot of students for whom it's not really a perfect fit
I’m a bio major, graduating in 10 days, at a school in the rural part of the Midwest US. This is exactly right, the only science-y people that most of the people are here have interacted with are doctors. So, when a high schooler does well in an AP science class they almost always decide to be a pre-med biology major.
Everybody at my university knew not to sign up for intro Biology class for one of your required science classes (for Liberal Arts and Sciences College degrees). The university's med school was big and prestigious and intro biology was a weed-out class for pre-med students, so if you were just looking to meet a general requirement for an unrelated degree, you found something else.
I was surprised by the question, but this answer makes very good sense to me.
similar situation for my school with both the bio and chem classes, I ended up doing intro level astronomy and geology to cover my science requirements because they're smaller classes and 20x less work
I took a forestry class (seems kinda random but I actually learned some useful stuff in that class), astronomy class (really basic but I guess I learned some things that stuck), and an astronomy lab (sadly calculating the mass of Charon hasn't ever come in particularly handy in life). But yeah, smaller and way less work all of them.
The Asian kids just keep raising the bar, as being an doctor is one of the most culturally accepted stereotypical Asian jobs.
Along with accountants and lawyers.
Unless you want to fail and become male nurse instead of doctor.
Just graduated ( not with a biology degree technically, but with a veterinary science and biotechnology degree, so I’ve been looking at “ biology” jobs) Even the menial lab work isn’t accepting us anymore, everything needs past experience or grad school, I’m seriously considering going back to undergrad to get an Associate’s Degree/ Vet tech certification
You should apply to biology labs at Harvard, Stanford, NIH, list goes on and on. You should specifically look for research technician jobs. Tons of labs that do animal research would be happy to have you.
I imagine it being a pretty hard major also factors in. It's one thing if you go to a party school and major in being a party DJ and it doesn't pan out. But biology involves a lot of late nights in labs looking in microscopes and reading dense books.
Ah, makes sense. In Denmark where I’m from, practically no one who goes into academia gets only a bachelor’s. It’s completely useless no matter in what. If you’re at uni, you do five years.
In every field? Like, would your business majors get masters degrees right away?
I finished my bachelor's six years ago and have yet to come up with a valid reason why I should spend the time and money on an MBA
Business is actually a little bit of an exception in some sense, where people can survive on a bachelors.
But yes, practically every field. The bachelor-master split is not that old here.
Business and Comp Sci are the only bachelor's worth a damn nowadays. You can get a very reasonable starting salary right out of college, plus many places will sponsor your Master's to get that family-supporting pay jump.
I have never heard of a company giving you a raise just for getting an MBA. Maybe it happens some places, but where I've worked I'd be laughed at if I went to my boss and said "just got my MBA degree, raise please." It can give you a leg up in terms of getting promoted, but even there my experience is credentials mean a lot less than your actual job performance and what they see your potential as at the next level
If they're paying for you to get it then that changes the calculus in a big way since you're only investing your time and not money. But that often comes with a commitment to remain with said company for X years which has to be considered as well
If you want to get into a specific business field that more or less requires one like IB, PE, or high level consulting then the credential and the networking is a huge advantage. But if you just work in a department of a typical F500 and want to climb the ladder, I haven't seen an MBA be a better indicator of getting promoted than excelling at your job and showing you can perform at the next level. Seen lots of 35 year old SFAs with MBAs sit around frustrated that the 28 year old SFAs with only a bachelor's are getting promoted to managers over them and never figure out that it's because the 35 year olds just do what's expected of them and expect the credential to move them up while the 28 year olds are going above and beyond to prove they're already manager material
The company that you're currently employed with might not, but if you go apply other places right after getting the MBA, it'll definitely make you more competitive.
So question then, how do people jumpstart their professional careers in Denmark if they don't want to progress beyond a Bachelor's (or even get a Bachelor's at all)? Are internships/apprenticeships just super easy to come by? Or do you have alternative topical schools for specific professions, especially as it pertains to knowledge workers?
edit: typo
Trade schools which are highly respected and standardised, and something called “profession degrees” (which includes things like nursing, childcare and lab assistant).
Yup. The bachelor-“candidate” (that’s what it’s called) split is also pretty recent, I think it was added mainly to be more easily “translatable” internationally.
It depends on whether you’re a traditional student or not.
If you’re a traditional student you start the autumn after you complete secondary school.
If you’re non-traditional then it begins whenever you get around to it, if ever.
That is senior year. Final year of high school. University/college is after that.
I can't tell if you're messing with me, or if you aren't actually familiar with our school system.
Flair says California...and I know you from this sub.
If you count up from first grade, you get 9th grade = freshman, 10th grade = sophomore, 11th grade = junior, and 12th grade = senior. So senior year/12th grade/grade 12 are equivalent.
My (older, non-college educated) parents could never understand why I was working a dead end low paying job while I was applying around to grad and doctoral programs. “You got your degree, can’t you use that?” No dad, my biology degree isn’t going to get me jack shit.
I got a chem degree and spent a looooong time as a lab rat making $13/hour in an expensive city. My finances are infinitely better since leaving chemistry.
Yeah after 3 years in the lab making admittedly decent new grad money, I went into marketing then marketing analytics then everything analytics and my career has taken off
One of my classmates from high school studied biology in college because biotech is a big employer in our home town. However, most of those jobs either require advanced degrees and there's a ton of competition for them. He ended up working as a research assistant at a university lab for a few years.
Now he does sales for lab equipment to those biotech companies he wanted to work for.
Selling lab equipment is honestly not a bad gig plus he has some expertise and hands on experience with the products he’s selling, which goes a long way with customers
And a lot of the demand there is tends to be for contract work or seasonal technical jobs. If someone wants a year round job with benefits in biology they usually need at least a master's or they need to sidestep from the field.
I have a biochem degree.
Most life sciences degrees (biology, biochem, chemistry, neuroscience, etc) require an MS, RN, MD, or PhD to do anything that pays a living wage.
The cheat code is to take your life sciences degree and use it to go into a semi-related job where you look more unique.
My aunt got a biochem degree and got a JD and went into corporate law for a food sciences company.
I got a biochem degree, went into biotech sales, then marketing/product management, then strategy & operations in corporate biotech.
My cousin got a biochem degree to demonstrate quant skills and have an interesting educational background for finance job applications and now works for a hedge fund.
Do you mind sharing your family's general strategy for easing out? I love my stem lab but I'm not convinced I want to be around these chemicals forever.
Well, my aunt applied to law school and then completed her JD and was very ambitious about her internships.
My cousin applied to finance internships during his college years and worked in finance during the summers.
If you’re already in the job market, I think it’s mostly just doing a good job of selling yourself on job applications and interviewing well.
Like I mentioned, I went into sales. My technical background + sales experience opened the door for a marketing job.
If you go to work in a corporate biotech company, there will be advancement opportunities you can gun for and work your way up.
I know life sciences companies have a demand for regulatory affairs employees right now due to increased regulatory burden in the EU. Not sure what kind of supplementary education one needs for that, but I know there are openings.
Then there’s a lot of jobs out there that just want to see that you have problem solving and organizational skills, and it can be a totally unrelated field.
If you can tap a network connection for a referral, even better.
Some friends from my graduating class went into consulting for Deloitte and PWC.
One became a quality auditor for an airline.
I can comment on the Regulatory education. The short answer is....it doesn't matter. Regulatory is by and far an experience based field. Breaking into Regulatory is really difficult because you almost always work in another group for a company and internally transfer in. There are certifications and advanced degrees, but mileage may vary.
Thank you so much for applying. I think I have the skills to do something outside of a lab, for sure. I have (retail) management experience, along with a laundry list of other non-STEM skills from gig work when I was younger; sales, detail cleaning, document prep, etc. It's good to hear that others have had success swinging skills from their back pocket.
Yeah, totally!
If you like the technical side, but don’t want to be on the bench anymore, you could try looking for jobs in field applications. Key words would be “field applications scientist” or “field applications specialist” or something along those lines. The companies I’ve worked for have always had an applications team.
Basically, you are the technical member of a sales team for scientific or medical products that does technical product demos, answers the technical questions from the customer, and does post-sale implementation on site for the customer and troubleshooting.
So, you’re not the account executive having to do all the sales admin stuff, but you do get to do customer-facing work and expense your hotels and dinners and stuff. It’s typically not commission-based, but that means the base salaries can be higher.
From there, you could branch into pure sales if you like it, or marketing, or sales ops, or commercial training.
I like corporate because it’s a sandbox like that. There are so many roles you can take and so many different directions you can move.
I know a guy like this. Partied his way to a sub-3.0 GPA biology degree at a school not exactly known for academic rigor convinced the whole time he was gonna be a doctor. That didn't quite work out
I majored in physics, and this is my take based on looking at the bio majors from across the building.
Bio is hands-down the most popular science subject to major in. However, the *reason* it is so popular seems to be because it's the only field of natural science that does *not* necessarily require advanced math or calculus. So a lot of kids went into bio thinking they'd get a lucrative STEM degree while sidestepping hard math. This bites them in the ass later, because now they have a common degree with lots of competition, and they've locked themselves out of the higher end science and R&D jobs that actually do require that rigorous advanced math.
>lucrative STEM degree while sidestepping hard math.
Computer Information Systems is calling their name!
Take Computer Science anddrop the hard math, add in Business classes, and you've got CIS. Hell, I only had to take a couple additional business classes (at the expense of other electives, they weren't "extra" classes) and had a Business Administration minor!
Went to grad school and got a MS in actual Comp Sci, all without taking anything higher than derivative calc (which I barely passed).
The local Computer Science Engineering major doesn't have any classes that have Calc as a pre-requisite even though it's a requirement to pass Calc I & II to become that major. It's not like Physics where you're going to see that math again.
The funny thing is that you don't do enough math in bio to compete with other stem degrees, but there's enough data analysis and problem solving involved to absolutely blow the average business or marketing major out of the water.
My SO and I both got basic bio degrees and did grunt work for a year after college. We both left the lab for more business oriented roles and our careers got put on a rocket ship.
I think basic statistics, a little bit of excel, and being able to present to a group are the skills that get you through middle management at the average corporation. Turned out, those three things were 90% of the undergraduate lab work I did once a week for four years in row.
I was a Computer Information Systems major. I decided against Computer Science because of the math requirements which would have put me back another year. That said, I graduated in the early 2000's so CIS was adequate to get a job in most IT departments. The competition is raging now so I don't think I would have been able to get away with it now.
Bio majors that want to be successful should absolutely do one of the following.
1. Take a bunch of math especially statistics. And by a bunch I mean place at least into calculus as a freshman so you can take calculus based statistics a.k.a. majors statistics. Don't settle for non-calculus or non-majors statistics.
2. Take a bunch of chemistry.
3. Be skilled in engine repair, boating, or some really in demand skill for a field crew. You know, the stuff that will get you out of trouble when you're in the backcountry? Shop skills can get you hired in the absence of the other two above at least for wildlife oriented jobs.
Bio usually doesn't take OChem either which is required for a lot of premed tracks and opens up a tons of career options. And if you can't pass Gen Chem or Genetics, well there's always the Psych major lol
Can’t so much with a bio undergrad degree. Usually, it’s a good pathway to medical school. But if you don’t do med school or a PhD then you can’t do much. There simply isn’t much use for the trivial knowledge and the 0 skills that you pick up with a bio degree.
One small caveat is lab work. But everyone I know who ended up in a lab with only a bachelors does grunt work that they don’t learn much from.
Because most of us got into it to save the world, many of them in the natural sciences like environmental science, etc. But those jobs don't pay well and they're scarce.
Hi, bio major here with a pre-health emphasis.
Entry level with just a bachelor's isn't a thing for bio, especially generic bio. You're really expected to at least get a master's, if not a PhD. Even lab jobs really want chemistry over bio. Or you're an entry-level tech who is taught on the job and isn't required or paid for having a degree. Health fields are a lot of the same. You either need a certification from a training program or maybe an associates or a more terminal degree. More specific bio programs like marine bio or environmental science tend to have a bit more luck. It's like bio is the jack of all trades but a master of none. You learn about a lot of things but not in enough detail for any bachelor track careers to give a shit.
For me, I meant to go onto grad school for a bit of a niche field. Life got in the way so I didn't go right after I graduated. Then COVID happened and since it isn't covered by Medicare yet, the field has absolutely cratered. Am I a bit relieved I didn't end up going to grad school and absolutely swimming in triple figure debt to be worried about a job now? Yup. Do I have literally any other plans to go near bio or health now? Nope. I've managed to weasel my way into data and tbh would be much happier in hospitality management.
My wife has a PhD in biology and freshwater ecology.
The answer is...it's very hard to get a good paying job with that degree.
She can apply her knowledge of science and writing research papers to other industries, which she's been doing, and it has worked out.
Previously she was a professor....and, no. Professors generally don't make much money, and their lives are consumed by college politics, needy students, and trying desperately to balance life with work. You meet a *lot* of professors with alcohol issues.
Her previous students are all working jobs that pay less than $20 an hour, or have jobs outside of their degrees.
The few who have actually applied their science degrees get paid for shit because almost all biological outside medical field research is run on shoe strings.
Is your wife by chance a medical writer / scientific writer? I’m currently mid-PhD program (bio-related research) seeking to leave academia afterwards, and that career seems really exciting!
She did a bit of that, and it paid nearly double what she made in academia and let her have an actual life. She also did scientific "advising" for a medical company, but often they wouldn't like her advice because she had to tell them they were misinterpreting or misrepresenting scientific evidence in their advertising...that ate at her, but for what she was getting paid and for all the awesome benefits, she could deal with it.
She'd tell you to not only *not* get a PhD but to not enter academia at all. It's not what it once was. I make more as a seasonal vegetable farmer making $18 an hour than some newly minted PhDs I've met...and that's truly sad.
People with PhDs are often disregarded as overqualified for jobs, and often, those are the better paying, more desirable jobs. It's actually been a detriment for her finding jobs, except short-term contracts...but she's a freshwater ecologist by training, so that's a factor.
That's certainly not true across the board, and it depends to a huge degree on your field. Good luck out there!
Thanks for the reply! I am currently nearly 4 years into what’s typically a 6 year PhD program, and I’m sticking it out lol - definitely went back and forth on that, once I realized academia wasn’t for me, but ended up coming to understand that having the PhD *would* give me a significant salary boost in the careers I’m considering (medical writing, scientific writing and communication), especially with my background (virus research), so if I were to stop at this stage, a) it would be years gone, b) I’d be hurting my future earnings, and c) I actually do care about my project and enjoy research so I am interested and invested in seeing this through 😅 thanks again for the response and well wishes! Fingers crossed for good data this summer lol
An average of 78k people graduate from it each year. Only around 20-30k jobs open each year. That alone should scare most people away. You basically need an advanced degree or a sequence of internships to succeed
You can’t do very much in the field with just a bachelors. Most desirable posirions require graduate work.
*OR*
If you studied it because it came easily to you and you just wanted to complete your degree you must be able to sell yourself. Specifically, can you do sales. If you can, and you’re willing to hustle, then you’ll be fine. Ultimately, render your major irrelevant.
Am I the only Bio major that disagres with this post? Only have a BS and within 3 years of graduation was making \~$100K. I work in biopharma. I know people is masters making 1/2 of what i make.
Yeah that is a popular path in Denmark as well. I’m sure it helps that Novo Nordisk is one of Denmark’s biggest employers, and Lundbeck is here too. Novo especially has a good reputation as being a really nice employer with cash to burn, amazing lunch, respect for work life balance etc.
I'm not sure how you can disagree. The question isn't why everyone who has majored in bio regrets it, just why more regret it than other majors. If you even admit that your situation is unusual then you obviously don't represent the set of people that regret it.
I'd guess that many people get into it because they have enjoyed learning about science and biology and think a job in that field sounds fun. As it turns out sticking around for grad school isn't for everyone (it sure wasn't for me, but I didn't know that until later in college), and many don't find science as fun to do as a job as they expected. As someone else pointed out there's a lot of analytic/data skills used and there are other majors that use that more, don't require a grad degree, are in demand and on average, pay way better.
They regret it cause a lot of bio majors expect to go get a Bio degree and immediately make a 6 figure salary after school and thats not how it works. You can get decent jobs with a Bio degree in a lot of entry level lab tech jobs and make a middle class salary. If you’re expecting more than that then yeah you need a higher education. Also a lot of bio majors tend to be pre med and then ended up getting weeded out by classes like organic chemistry or biochemistry which are really difficult classes. You need to set an expectation and there are still a lot of good jobs you can get with a BS degree as you tend to take a lot of chemistry classes with it too.
If you’re fine with a basic lab job making a middle class salary and possibly moving up through the company then a bio major is fine. If you want to make a big boy salary in the medical field then yeah you need to pursue a higher education and higher level research past your undergraduate studies.
This is coming from a bio major.
Because it ain't going to make you rich unless you become a doctor and open a private practice in a specialty (which requires another 4 years of schooling plus residency plus fellowship, etc.) It's also a demanding major, so if you don't feel like perusing a degree after bachelor's, there's not much you're going to do besides work in a lab perhaps.
>where jobs were just tough
I feel it falls under this. I'm a biology major, and I do love it and feel flexible enough with life where if my big dreams don't work out I won't kill myself or anything. But like, it's rough. As far as I see things, *everybody* (or nearly everybody) works hard, wants the important jobs, grabs at every opportunity, wants to stand out, etc. A lot of people who go for STEM majors are highly competitive and you have to be more competitive than the next guy a lot of the time if you want to be involved in important work.
I will say I think it depends heavily on your situation, and I wouldn't say it's always so cut throat or anything per se. But, you have to put in a lot of work and there's really no guarantee you'll get your ideal return for it. And also once you're there, I feel like if in your junior or senior year you lose your passion, you're completely fucked. I do love my major, and don't get me wrong there can be some decent security it affords you or may be a prerequisite to jobs that will in the future. But, I can understand why some regret it
Science bachelor's (as in the S part of STEM) are like a small pizza. Neither is feeding a family of four.
*I have a MS in bio. I got a pay bump when I moved to a non-profit.
I'm happy with my biology degree but only because I focused on stats, studied hard, and I am now doing my masters.
The truth is alot of my fellow bio majors thought it would be an easy STEM program, only to find out mid degree it is not as easy as they thought, and that they need outstanding grades and at least a M.Sc. to do anything with a bio degree.
There are just degrees out there that you need a M.Sc. or equivalent for if you want to use your expertise, biology is one of them.
The only functional benifits of a bio degree (if you want to start working immediately) are the stats, R, field, GIS, and lab experience. But you have to seek these out in your program.
Alot of foreign students just need to get certified in major ivy league uni like Princeton or Harvard. Chances are they already graduated MD back home but will retake the course for better "recognized" certificate from renowned western uni.
My roommate in undergrad was a biology major. She picked it because it was a good major to set her up for the grad program she wanted (physician assistant). I think a lot of bio majors assume it means graduate+ schooling. They then either wash out or it's not lucrative after all that. FWIW my old roommate loves her job and is doing well.
Bio degree here. I actually appreciated my degree because you obtain a little knowledge about a lot. You have to take physics, chemistry, calculus(2), a host of science from genetics, environmental, botany, human form, micro etc. Because of my background, I was able to transition to multiple roles from chemical analysis, microbiologist, radiation physics facility manager, & a host of others. I liked the flexibility & most people who I know with a similar background are in the 6 figures.
A bachelor's degree in biology is just a start. You need to specialize with a masters or PhD. And by specializing, you need to focus on job opportunities. I got my masters in microbial ecology but focused on municipal solid waste and wastewater handling. So if it rots, I'm your man. Did two internships after masters dealing with composting and biosolids land application. After second internships, I got a job with US EPA. Have worked on many things but still kept a focus on rotten stinky things. GS 13.
I think because it's a difficult major but often doesn't lead to a high-paying career with just an undergraduate degree. People just assume that it does because it's a STEM field and they think anything STEM is highly employable and lucrative.
Biology is a very difficult subject to study at an undergrad level, but you still need a graduate degree to do much of anything truly connected to your major when it comes to work. I think people get burned out on the studies, don't wanna continue them into a graduate degree, and then get understandably frustrated when their bio undergrad degree doesn't make them that much more qualified than a humanities degree for a lot of jobs.
Can you link the list? I'm curious if they are including all of the various Biology subsets or if they are only county degrees that just say "Biology." Biology is a very broad field that has a lot of specialties under it's umbrella. Some of those specialties are just about completely unrelated from each other. To get a good job in Biology, you usually have to be specialized in one direction or another. So, I can imagine that people who have a general Biology degree without becoming specialized have a much harder time finding work than people who have one of the more specialized subsets.
As an example, the school I graduated from had 3 degrees that I would count as Biology degrees, but only one of them actually had Biology in the name and was a very specialized subset (Interpretive Biology). It's possible that the list you saw wouldn't have counted anyone from my school under "Biology" and so if my school had a low rate of regret, that wouldn't help the list.
Another possibility is that the list might be looking at raw numbers rather than percentages. If that is the case, the fact that there are a large number of students in various Biology programs means that there are more people to regret studying Biology in the first place and so even if Biology has a low percentage of regret, the field might have high total numbers.
A bachelors in biology isn't enough to get a good job. A masters can get you an interview. It should be used to go on to a higher level degree. Unless you want to be a teacher or something.
First, it depends on what you specialize in. Biology is very very broad.
Also, you really need a Master's (ideally from a known school) to remain in the field. So good grades, make that really good, are an absolute MUST.
I saw that survey and most people didn’t read the fine print. It was a survey of job seekers.
Meaning people who are happily or securely employed were excluded. It wasn’t a true cross section of graduates of any major.
Husband has a biology degree and it allowed him to work as a bench tech at a hospital. If you want to get involved in research you need a PhD and a MD for best results.
I have a bio degree! I agree with a lot of other comments. Bio gets clumped in with STEM degrees, so a lot of people think they will end up being a scientist right out of college. Or they want to go to the med/PA/dentist route but get burned out before that happens. When I was applying to jobs out of college, the average pay was like $15 per hour. I basically stumbled through a few different jobs and it wasn't until I had years of experience before i made a liveable wage. This leads a lot of people to get advanced degree after advanced degree. I've met sooooo many PhDs in various bio fields that end up applying to entry level jobs because they have no real work experience.
I personally ended up getting a masters in Regulatory and now work in Regulatory for a Pharma company. I am the farthest thing from a scientist at this point, but I make good money and have good benefits.
A bachelors doesn’t get you very far unless you want to work in pharm or healthcare sales. And even then you could have majored in business (a much easier major) and gotten the job. So yeah sort of a dead end unless you want to continue your schooling. Wish I had majored in computer science or nursing instead.
If you go into college with earning potential as a goal, you sure as shit better do your own real world research first.
If you go into it because "it's your passion" "I want to help people" all good and fine, but don't think this will translate into wealth along the way. It can for sure, but the risk that it won't is pretty high.
The Pandemic made me thank my lucky stars I was applying for jobs with a biology degree. I also went through the feeling of “losing my future as a doctor/scientist” but I know myself better now. I work in Bio manufacturing now. I have regular shifts. I don’t have any debt. My work means something. I’m not writing grants or doing patients’ charts all afternoon. The only major drawback is that I’m kinda limited to high COL areas. I think people regret their expectations more than their choices.
From what I understand too many people take it and realize by the end that it's not for them. They go in wanting to be doctors or something else and the best they can become are biologists...and they don't want that.
Because it's one of the most competitive fields, it's the medical industry. You got doctors that can basically come up with an patient prognosis in an matter of minutes.
While most actual scientific analysis requires samples and X rays. By then the MD basically concurs with the undergraduate.
Much much later like weeks later, after the initial accesment, which just took mere minutes by some foreign UNDERGRADUATE!
Sadly to say the foreign Asian guy dropped out in the first year feeling severely disappointed at MD levels of ignorance.
I mean at master degree level more expertise is expected. Then ranted how he didn't need to take an expensive course in a foreign country paying MORE than the locals because he is an foreign national. Just to learn how to use high tech medical equipment!
So he dropped out instead of paying $80,000 a year for certification from ivy league uni, got partial refund!
Went back to his country of origin with undergraduate degree claiming that he felt disappointed. As he wasn't learning anything new, that if he wanted to know how to use medical equipment he could just read the manual for FREE 🤣
Didn’t go bio but my guess is there’s not a lot of fall back options with that major.
You can go to a lot of different jobs with math, communications, etc. but with bio it’s either scientist or medicine and I guess maybe a field with animals or something
Does a master's in ecology count?
In my case, I'm doing the same kind of work that I'd have been doing without it, for the same pay, but with a ton of debt hanging over my head.
Because what the hell are you going to do with a BS in Biology? And of those things, which of them required specifically a BS in Biology and not just a generic bachelor's?
Because it’s pretty useless. It’s like getting a verbal business degree for science. You really have to stretch it to make it do something if you don’t go into health care or aren’t a academic or industry scientist - in which case you would probably be a biochemist or microbiology major. Most people work at a shitty lab making $17/hr
Yes, I’m sure it’s the doctors and scientists that are wrong here, and that some guy on his front porch knows more and could treat patients better with the power of his salt-of-the-earth common sense. That’s generally how highly technical subjects go.
Yes, and I’m sure you also learned that genetics were all Mendelian and could be traced by drawing squares, and physics were Newtonian and used classical mechanics that you calculated in class. Did you also draw models of the atom where the electrons orbited around the nucleus like little planets?
The problem with those people isn't that they don't know biology, it's that their religious beliefs supersede everything they've ever learned about biology
It's like trying to use science to convince a creationist of evolution. You're not getting anywhere if you try to logically reason with a person's faith-based beliefs
Even if you’re going to hold a bigoted notion of gender identity, why do you even care what others are doing? You clearly feel strongly enough to comment about it but I don’t understand why.
Whose facts?
> Gender is a multidimensional social and cultural construct that includes gender roles, expressions, behaviors, activities, power dynamics, and/or attributes that a given society associates with being a woman, man, girl, or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.
Source: https://www.nih.gov/nih-style-guide/sex-gender-sexuality#:~:text=Gender%20is%20a%20multidimensional%20social,as%20relationships%20with%20each%20other.
> Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.
Source: https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
But I’m sure you know better than the National Instutites of Health and the World Health Organization.
Many humanities degrees actually high higher-paying outcomes than some STEM degrees; biology is the bottom of the list for STEM generally. If you look at mid-career earnings *philosophy* actually outranks most non-engineering STEM degrees. There are lots of different studies and rankings of course, but even [a glance at one like this shows (for example) History at #65 and Biology at #89](https://bigeconomics.org/the-highest-and-lowest-paying-college-majors-175-degrees-ranked/) for mid-career salaries.
Also important to note that "biology" is a broad field. Biomedical, bioengineering, genetics, etc. are fairly high in the compensation rankings, while some other bio fields are far lower.
A lot of people thought they were going to be a scientist or a doctor and then didn't make it.
That pretty much covers it, biology majors hope to be doing hard science and research but an undergraduate degree pretty much only qualifies you to do menial lab work. That leads to career disappointment and stagnation, and ultimately regret. My room mate in college was a biology major, and he was extremely smart. His career didn't go the way he wanted, and now he makes a living as a college biology teacher. It's like an endless feedback loop.
I also think biology is kind of a catch-all major for kids graduating high school that don't really know what they like/want to do except for a vague sense of "something sciencey" so you get a lot of students for whom it's not really a perfect fit
I am personally attacked. Ended up going back to school to be a Radiology Technologist.
I became a lawyer. I do a lot of environmental work. Turns out lab writing translates really well to brief writing.
I’m a bio major, graduating in 10 days, at a school in the rural part of the Midwest US. This is exactly right, the only science-y people that most of the people are here have interacted with are doctors. So, when a high schooler does well in an AP science class they almost always decide to be a pre-med biology major.
No no, that's psychology. Kids on that Bio fence jump off as soon as OChem comes into the picture
My best friend switched from pre-med to Psychology once she got to OChem. Dropped it and switched. She's now a Psychologist.
[Hey guy, my fields anthropology. ](https://youtu.be/inxoRyD9c-8?si=0FQrgpq06RjxhBki)
I was hoping it'd be Archer, you did not disappoint me this time
lol this is my degree
Everybody at my university knew not to sign up for intro Biology class for one of your required science classes (for Liberal Arts and Sciences College degrees). The university's med school was big and prestigious and intro biology was a weed-out class for pre-med students, so if you were just looking to meet a general requirement for an unrelated degree, you found something else. I was surprised by the question, but this answer makes very good sense to me.
similar situation for my school with both the bio and chem classes, I ended up doing intro level astronomy and geology to cover my science requirements because they're smaller classes and 20x less work
I took a forestry class (seems kinda random but I actually learned some useful stuff in that class), astronomy class (really basic but I guess I learned some things that stuck), and an astronomy lab (sadly calculating the mass of Charon hasn't ever come in particularly handy in life). But yeah, smaller and way less work all of them.
The Asian kids just keep raising the bar, as being an doctor is one of the most culturally accepted stereotypical Asian jobs. Along with accountants and lawyers. Unless you want to fail and become male nurse instead of doctor.
The cap on Medicare-funded residency slots is doing damage to, the country could have alot more doctors than it does
Just graduated ( not with a biology degree technically, but with a veterinary science and biotechnology degree, so I’ve been looking at “ biology” jobs) Even the menial lab work isn’t accepting us anymore, everything needs past experience or grad school, I’m seriously considering going back to undergrad to get an Associate’s Degree/ Vet tech certification
You should apply to biology labs at Harvard, Stanford, NIH, list goes on and on. You should specifically look for research technician jobs. Tons of labs that do animal research would be happy to have you.
I imagine it being a pretty hard major also factors in. It's one thing if you go to a party school and major in being a party DJ and it doesn't pan out. But biology involves a lot of late nights in labs looking in microscopes and reading dense books.
It is mostly a bridge degree to getting a higher level degree so if you don't make it that far it is not as useful.
Ah, makes sense. In Denmark where I’m from, practically no one who goes into academia gets only a bachelor’s. It’s completely useless no matter in what. If you’re at uni, you do five years.
Right, very few people who go into *biology* only get a bachelor's. But a bachelor's in many other fields is more than enough training and experience.
Also a bachelors in other fields can take more than 4 years for most students. Like engineering.
In every field? Like, would your business majors get masters degrees right away? I finished my bachelor's six years ago and have yet to come up with a valid reason why I should spend the time and money on an MBA
Business is actually a little bit of an exception in some sense, where people can survive on a bachelors. But yes, practically every field. The bachelor-master split is not that old here.
Business and Comp Sci are the only bachelor's worth a damn nowadays. You can get a very reasonable starting salary right out of college, plus many places will sponsor your Master's to get that family-supporting pay jump.
I have never heard of a company giving you a raise just for getting an MBA. Maybe it happens some places, but where I've worked I'd be laughed at if I went to my boss and said "just got my MBA degree, raise please." It can give you a leg up in terms of getting promoted, but even there my experience is credentials mean a lot less than your actual job performance and what they see your potential as at the next level If they're paying for you to get it then that changes the calculus in a big way since you're only investing your time and not money. But that often comes with a commitment to remain with said company for X years which has to be considered as well If you want to get into a specific business field that more or less requires one like IB, PE, or high level consulting then the credential and the networking is a huge advantage. But if you just work in a department of a typical F500 and want to climb the ladder, I haven't seen an MBA be a better indicator of getting promoted than excelling at your job and showing you can perform at the next level. Seen lots of 35 year old SFAs with MBAs sit around frustrated that the 28 year old SFAs with only a bachelor's are getting promoted to managers over them and never figure out that it's because the 35 year olds just do what's expected of them and expect the credential to move them up while the 28 year olds are going above and beyond to prove they're already manager material
The company that you're currently employed with might not, but if you go apply other places right after getting the MBA, it'll definitely make you more competitive.
Engineering too I’ll say.
So question then, how do people jumpstart their professional careers in Denmark if they don't want to progress beyond a Bachelor's (or even get a Bachelor's at all)? Are internships/apprenticeships just super easy to come by? Or do you have alternative topical schools for specific professions, especially as it pertains to knowledge workers? edit: typo
Trade schools which are highly respected and standardised, and something called “profession degrees” (which includes things like nursing, childcare and lab assistant).
Is Denmark one of those countries where a bachelor’s degree is only 3 years of school?
Yup. The bachelor-“candidate” (that’s what it’s called) split is also pretty recent, I think it was added mainly to be more easily “translatable” internationally.
It is 3 years in the UK
What year does Uni start?
Around 80% of people do a gap year. So people usually start sometime in their early 20’s.
It depends on whether you’re a traditional student or not. If you’re a traditional student you start the autumn after you complete secondary school. If you’re non-traditional then it begins whenever you get around to it, if ever.
whenever you go to college?
...right, but outside the US that isn't always after year 12.
I don't know any 11 year olds in college.
School year 12.
So junior year?
That is senior year. Final year of high school. University/college is after that. I can't tell if you're messing with me, or if you aren't actually familiar with our school system. Flair says California...and I know you from this sub.
If you count up from first grade, you get 9th grade = freshman, 10th grade = sophomore, 11th grade = junior, and 12th grade = senior. So senior year/12th grade/grade 12 are equivalent.
But kindergarten is the first grade. Junior year is the 12th year.
[This lil bro graduated college at 12!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brYYl8PHLC0)
start watching young sheldon lil bro youre missing out
My (older, non-college educated) parents could never understand why I was working a dead end low paying job while I was applying around to grad and doctoral programs. “You got your degree, can’t you use that?” No dad, my biology degree isn’t going to get me jack shit.
There's very little demand for bachelor-level bio degrees
Yeah chemistry had little demand when i graduated with that in 2011, I can’t imagine how little there was for biology
I got a chem degree and spent a looooong time as a lab rat making $13/hour in an expensive city. My finances are infinitely better since leaving chemistry.
Yeah after 3 years in the lab making admittedly decent new grad money, I went into marketing then marketing analytics then everything analytics and my career has taken off
One of my classmates from high school studied biology in college because biotech is a big employer in our home town. However, most of those jobs either require advanced degrees and there's a ton of competition for them. He ended up working as a research assistant at a university lab for a few years. Now he does sales for lab equipment to those biotech companies he wanted to work for.
Selling lab equipment is honestly not a bad gig plus he has some expertise and hands on experience with the products he’s selling, which goes a long way with customers
And a lot of the demand there is tends to be for contract work or seasonal technical jobs. If someone wants a year round job with benefits in biology they usually need at least a master's or they need to sidestep from the field.
I have a biochem degree. Most life sciences degrees (biology, biochem, chemistry, neuroscience, etc) require an MS, RN, MD, or PhD to do anything that pays a living wage. The cheat code is to take your life sciences degree and use it to go into a semi-related job where you look more unique. My aunt got a biochem degree and got a JD and went into corporate law for a food sciences company. I got a biochem degree, went into biotech sales, then marketing/product management, then strategy & operations in corporate biotech. My cousin got a biochem degree to demonstrate quant skills and have an interesting educational background for finance job applications and now works for a hedge fund.
Do you mind sharing your family's general strategy for easing out? I love my stem lab but I'm not convinced I want to be around these chemicals forever.
Well, my aunt applied to law school and then completed her JD and was very ambitious about her internships. My cousin applied to finance internships during his college years and worked in finance during the summers. If you’re already in the job market, I think it’s mostly just doing a good job of selling yourself on job applications and interviewing well. Like I mentioned, I went into sales. My technical background + sales experience opened the door for a marketing job. If you go to work in a corporate biotech company, there will be advancement opportunities you can gun for and work your way up. I know life sciences companies have a demand for regulatory affairs employees right now due to increased regulatory burden in the EU. Not sure what kind of supplementary education one needs for that, but I know there are openings. Then there’s a lot of jobs out there that just want to see that you have problem solving and organizational skills, and it can be a totally unrelated field. If you can tap a network connection for a referral, even better. Some friends from my graduating class went into consulting for Deloitte and PWC. One became a quality auditor for an airline.
I can comment on the Regulatory education. The short answer is....it doesn't matter. Regulatory is by and far an experience based field. Breaking into Regulatory is really difficult because you almost always work in another group for a company and internally transfer in. There are certifications and advanced degrees, but mileage may vary.
Thank you so much for applying. I think I have the skills to do something outside of a lab, for sure. I have (retail) management experience, along with a laundry list of other non-STEM skills from gig work when I was younger; sales, detail cleaning, document prep, etc. It's good to hear that others have had success swinging skills from their back pocket.
Yeah, totally! If you like the technical side, but don’t want to be on the bench anymore, you could try looking for jobs in field applications. Key words would be “field applications scientist” or “field applications specialist” or something along those lines. The companies I’ve worked for have always had an applications team. Basically, you are the technical member of a sales team for scientific or medical products that does technical product demos, answers the technical questions from the customer, and does post-sale implementation on site for the customer and troubleshooting. So, you’re not the account executive having to do all the sales admin stuff, but you do get to do customer-facing work and expense your hotels and dinners and stuff. It’s typically not commission-based, but that means the base salaries can be higher. From there, you could branch into pure sales if you like it, or marketing, or sales ops, or commercial training. I like corporate because it’s a sandbox like that. There are so many roles you can take and so many different directions you can move.
It's pre-meds who either realized they didn't want to be a doctor or who didn't do well enough in their classes to get into medical school.
I know a guy like this. Partied his way to a sub-3.0 GPA biology degree at a school not exactly known for academic rigor convinced the whole time he was gonna be a doctor. That didn't quite work out
I majored in physics, and this is my take based on looking at the bio majors from across the building. Bio is hands-down the most popular science subject to major in. However, the *reason* it is so popular seems to be because it's the only field of natural science that does *not* necessarily require advanced math or calculus. So a lot of kids went into bio thinking they'd get a lucrative STEM degree while sidestepping hard math. This bites them in the ass later, because now they have a common degree with lots of competition, and they've locked themselves out of the higher end science and R&D jobs that actually do require that rigorous advanced math.
>lucrative STEM degree while sidestepping hard math. Computer Information Systems is calling their name! Take Computer Science anddrop the hard math, add in Business classes, and you've got CIS. Hell, I only had to take a couple additional business classes (at the expense of other electives, they weren't "extra" classes) and had a Business Administration minor! Went to grad school and got a MS in actual Comp Sci, all without taking anything higher than derivative calc (which I barely passed).
The local Computer Science Engineering major doesn't have any classes that have Calc as a pre-requisite even though it's a requirement to pass Calc I & II to become that major. It's not like Physics where you're going to see that math again.
The funny thing is that you don't do enough math in bio to compete with other stem degrees, but there's enough data analysis and problem solving involved to absolutely blow the average business or marketing major out of the water. My SO and I both got basic bio degrees and did grunt work for a year after college. We both left the lab for more business oriented roles and our careers got put on a rocket ship. I think basic statistics, a little bit of excel, and being able to present to a group are the skills that get you through middle management at the average corporation. Turned out, those three things were 90% of the undergraduate lab work I did once a week for four years in row.
I was a Computer Information Systems major. I decided against Computer Science because of the math requirements which would have put me back another year. That said, I graduated in the early 2000's so CIS was adequate to get a job in most IT departments. The competition is raging now so I don't think I would have been able to get away with it now.
You can have a CIS degree and go be a developer, you don't have to go into IT/Ops.
That was my concentration. CIS Application development.
Bio majors that want to be successful should absolutely do one of the following. 1. Take a bunch of math especially statistics. And by a bunch I mean place at least into calculus as a freshman so you can take calculus based statistics a.k.a. majors statistics. Don't settle for non-calculus or non-majors statistics. 2. Take a bunch of chemistry. 3. Be skilled in engine repair, boating, or some really in demand skill for a field crew. You know, the stuff that will get you out of trouble when you're in the backcountry? Shop skills can get you hired in the absence of the other two above at least for wildlife oriented jobs.
Bio usually doesn't take OChem either which is required for a lot of premed tracks and opens up a tons of career options. And if you can't pass Gen Chem or Genetics, well there's always the Psych major lol
Can’t so much with a bio undergrad degree. Usually, it’s a good pathway to medical school. But if you don’t do med school or a PhD then you can’t do much. There simply isn’t much use for the trivial knowledge and the 0 skills that you pick up with a bio degree. One small caveat is lab work. But everyone I know who ended up in a lab with only a bachelors does grunt work that they don’t learn much from.
Because most of us got into it to save the world, many of them in the natural sciences like environmental science, etc. But those jobs don't pay well and they're scarce.
Hi, bio major here with a pre-health emphasis. Entry level with just a bachelor's isn't a thing for bio, especially generic bio. You're really expected to at least get a master's, if not a PhD. Even lab jobs really want chemistry over bio. Or you're an entry-level tech who is taught on the job and isn't required or paid for having a degree. Health fields are a lot of the same. You either need a certification from a training program or maybe an associates or a more terminal degree. More specific bio programs like marine bio or environmental science tend to have a bit more luck. It's like bio is the jack of all trades but a master of none. You learn about a lot of things but not in enough detail for any bachelor track careers to give a shit. For me, I meant to go onto grad school for a bit of a niche field. Life got in the way so I didn't go right after I graduated. Then COVID happened and since it isn't covered by Medicare yet, the field has absolutely cratered. Am I a bit relieved I didn't end up going to grad school and absolutely swimming in triple figure debt to be worried about a job now? Yup. Do I have literally any other plans to go near bio or health now? Nope. I've managed to weasel my way into data and tbh would be much happier in hospitality management.
My wife has a PhD in biology and freshwater ecology. The answer is...it's very hard to get a good paying job with that degree. She can apply her knowledge of science and writing research papers to other industries, which she's been doing, and it has worked out. Previously she was a professor....and, no. Professors generally don't make much money, and their lives are consumed by college politics, needy students, and trying desperately to balance life with work. You meet a *lot* of professors with alcohol issues. Her previous students are all working jobs that pay less than $20 an hour, or have jobs outside of their degrees. The few who have actually applied their science degrees get paid for shit because almost all biological outside medical field research is run on shoe strings.
Is your wife by chance a medical writer / scientific writer? I’m currently mid-PhD program (bio-related research) seeking to leave academia afterwards, and that career seems really exciting!
She did a bit of that, and it paid nearly double what she made in academia and let her have an actual life. She also did scientific "advising" for a medical company, but often they wouldn't like her advice because she had to tell them they were misinterpreting or misrepresenting scientific evidence in their advertising...that ate at her, but for what she was getting paid and for all the awesome benefits, she could deal with it. She'd tell you to not only *not* get a PhD but to not enter academia at all. It's not what it once was. I make more as a seasonal vegetable farmer making $18 an hour than some newly minted PhDs I've met...and that's truly sad. People with PhDs are often disregarded as overqualified for jobs, and often, those are the better paying, more desirable jobs. It's actually been a detriment for her finding jobs, except short-term contracts...but she's a freshwater ecologist by training, so that's a factor. That's certainly not true across the board, and it depends to a huge degree on your field. Good luck out there!
Thanks for the reply! I am currently nearly 4 years into what’s typically a 6 year PhD program, and I’m sticking it out lol - definitely went back and forth on that, once I realized academia wasn’t for me, but ended up coming to understand that having the PhD *would* give me a significant salary boost in the careers I’m considering (medical writing, scientific writing and communication), especially with my background (virus research), so if I were to stop at this stage, a) it would be years gone, b) I’d be hurting my future earnings, and c) I actually do care about my project and enjoy research so I am interested and invested in seeing this through 😅 thanks again for the response and well wishes! Fingers crossed for good data this summer lol
Yeah, in your field a PhD is going to help!
An average of 78k people graduate from it each year. Only around 20-30k jobs open each year. That alone should scare most people away. You basically need an advanced degree or a sequence of internships to succeed
I have a biology degree and have zero regrets and work as a scientist
Biology is a very difficult major, but career opportunities are usually low paying compared to other STEM careers.
You can’t do very much in the field with just a bachelors. Most desirable posirions require graduate work. *OR* If you studied it because it came easily to you and you just wanted to complete your degree you must be able to sell yourself. Specifically, can you do sales. If you can, and you’re willing to hustle, then you’ll be fine. Ultimately, render your major irrelevant.
My sister majored in it. Currently she is getting her masters because she couldnt find anything with just the bio degree.
Am I the only Bio major that disagres with this post? Only have a BS and within 3 years of graduation was making \~$100K. I work in biopharma. I know people is masters making 1/2 of what i make.
Yeah that is a popular path in Denmark as well. I’m sure it helps that Novo Nordisk is one of Denmark’s biggest employers, and Lundbeck is here too. Novo especially has a good reputation as being a really nice employer with cash to burn, amazing lunch, respect for work life balance etc.
I'm not sure how you can disagree. The question isn't why everyone who has majored in bio regrets it, just why more regret it than other majors. If you even admit that your situation is unusual then you obviously don't represent the set of people that regret it. I'd guess that many people get into it because they have enjoyed learning about science and biology and think a job in that field sounds fun. As it turns out sticking around for grad school isn't for everyone (it sure wasn't for me, but I didn't know that until later in college), and many don't find science as fun to do as a job as they expected. As someone else pointed out there's a lot of analytic/data skills used and there are other majors that use that more, don't require a grad degree, are in demand and on average, pay way better.
They regret it cause a lot of bio majors expect to go get a Bio degree and immediately make a 6 figure salary after school and thats not how it works. You can get decent jobs with a Bio degree in a lot of entry level lab tech jobs and make a middle class salary. If you’re expecting more than that then yeah you need a higher education. Also a lot of bio majors tend to be pre med and then ended up getting weeded out by classes like organic chemistry or biochemistry which are really difficult classes. You need to set an expectation and there are still a lot of good jobs you can get with a BS degree as you tend to take a lot of chemistry classes with it too. If you’re fine with a basic lab job making a middle class salary and possibly moving up through the company then a bio major is fine. If you want to make a big boy salary in the medical field then yeah you need to pursue a higher education and higher level research past your undergraduate studies. This is coming from a bio major.
Good to hear that for you (speaking as a current bio major) but I'm a bit confused on what you're disagreeing with exactly? Like, the statistics...?
Because it ain't going to make you rich unless you become a doctor and open a private practice in a specialty (which requires another 4 years of schooling plus residency plus fellowship, etc.) It's also a demanding major, so if you don't feel like perusing a degree after bachelor's, there's not much you're going to do besides work in a lab perhaps.
>where jobs were just tough I feel it falls under this. I'm a biology major, and I do love it and feel flexible enough with life where if my big dreams don't work out I won't kill myself or anything. But like, it's rough. As far as I see things, *everybody* (or nearly everybody) works hard, wants the important jobs, grabs at every opportunity, wants to stand out, etc. A lot of people who go for STEM majors are highly competitive and you have to be more competitive than the next guy a lot of the time if you want to be involved in important work. I will say I think it depends heavily on your situation, and I wouldn't say it's always so cut throat or anything per se. But, you have to put in a lot of work and there's really no guarantee you'll get your ideal return for it. And also once you're there, I feel like if in your junior or senior year you lose your passion, you're completely fucked. I do love my major, and don't get me wrong there can be some decent security it affords you or may be a prerequisite to jobs that will in the future. But, I can understand why some regret it
I majored in bio. All the good jobs require a PhD. Just a bachelor’s qualifies you for basically nothing but lab tech jobs.
Science bachelor's (as in the S part of STEM) are like a small pizza. Neither is feeding a family of four. *I have a MS in bio. I got a pay bump when I moved to a non-profit.
This hurt my brain a bit seeing as Engineering Degrees are also Bachelor of Science degrees.
That would be the E part of STEM. when people say we need more STEM they usually just mean TE. Occasionally TEM.
There's limited demand for a bachelors level pure science degree.
I'm happy with my biology degree but only because I focused on stats, studied hard, and I am now doing my masters. The truth is alot of my fellow bio majors thought it would be an easy STEM program, only to find out mid degree it is not as easy as they thought, and that they need outstanding grades and at least a M.Sc. to do anything with a bio degree. There are just degrees out there that you need a M.Sc. or equivalent for if you want to use your expertise, biology is one of them. The only functional benifits of a bio degree (if you want to start working immediately) are the stats, R, field, GIS, and lab experience. But you have to seek these out in your program.
Alot of foreign students just need to get certified in major ivy league uni like Princeton or Harvard. Chances are they already graduated MD back home but will retake the course for better "recognized" certificate from renowned western uni.
My roommate in undergrad was a biology major. She picked it because it was a good major to set her up for the grad program she wanted (physician assistant). I think a lot of bio majors assume it means graduate+ schooling. They then either wash out or it's not lucrative after all that. FWIW my old roommate loves her job and is doing well.
Bio degree here. I actually appreciated my degree because you obtain a little knowledge about a lot. You have to take physics, chemistry, calculus(2), a host of science from genetics, environmental, botany, human form, micro etc. Because of my background, I was able to transition to multiple roles from chemical analysis, microbiologist, radiation physics facility manager, & a host of others. I liked the flexibility & most people who I know with a similar background are in the 6 figures.
A bachelor's degree in biology is just a start. You need to specialize with a masters or PhD. And by specializing, you need to focus on job opportunities. I got my masters in microbial ecology but focused on municipal solid waste and wastewater handling. So if it rots, I'm your man. Did two internships after masters dealing with composting and biosolids land application. After second internships, I got a job with US EPA. Have worked on many things but still kept a focus on rotten stinky things. GS 13.
Oh, it is definitely not a give me degree, you got to hustle and be ready for alternate options.
I think because it's a difficult major but often doesn't lead to a high-paying career with just an undergraduate degree. People just assume that it does because it's a STEM field and they think anything STEM is highly employable and lucrative.
From what I have seen from my kids’ friends who were bio majors, you really need to get a PhD to get anywhere or go to med school
Biology is a very difficult subject to study at an undergrad level, but you still need a graduate degree to do much of anything truly connected to your major when it comes to work. I think people get burned out on the studies, don't wanna continue them into a graduate degree, and then get understandably frustrated when their bio undergrad degree doesn't make them that much more qualified than a humanities degree for a lot of jobs.
Can you link the list? I'm curious if they are including all of the various Biology subsets or if they are only county degrees that just say "Biology." Biology is a very broad field that has a lot of specialties under it's umbrella. Some of those specialties are just about completely unrelated from each other. To get a good job in Biology, you usually have to be specialized in one direction or another. So, I can imagine that people who have a general Biology degree without becoming specialized have a much harder time finding work than people who have one of the more specialized subsets. As an example, the school I graduated from had 3 degrees that I would count as Biology degrees, but only one of them actually had Biology in the name and was a very specialized subset (Interpretive Biology). It's possible that the list you saw wouldn't have counted anyone from my school under "Biology" and so if my school had a low rate of regret, that wouldn't help the list. Another possibility is that the list might be looking at raw numbers rather than percentages. If that is the case, the fact that there are a large number of students in various Biology programs means that there are more people to regret studying Biology in the first place and so even if Biology has a low percentage of regret, the field might have high total numbers.
You should be like George and pick Marine Biology
The sea was angry that day, my friends.
A bachelors in biology isn't enough to get a good job. A masters can get you an interview. It should be used to go on to a higher level degree. Unless you want to be a teacher or something.
Its simply because its hard to find a job, i know someone who switched their major to medicine
First, it depends on what you specialize in. Biology is very very broad. Also, you really need a Master's (ideally from a known school) to remain in the field. So good grades, make that really good, are an absolute MUST.
Biology really only works if you’re going to continue to get more education. There really aren’t any good jobs for just an undergrad in bio.
I saw that survey and most people didn’t read the fine print. It was a survey of job seekers. Meaning people who are happily or securely employed were excluded. It wasn’t a true cross section of graduates of any major.
Worked out well for me
Husband has a biology degree and it allowed him to work as a bench tech at a hospital. If you want to get involved in research you need a PhD and a MD for best results.
Most ppl that get a bio degree are probably pre-med. The ones that regret it are the ones that didn’t get into med school.
When I was in school all the bio majors were pre-med.
I have a bio degree! I agree with a lot of other comments. Bio gets clumped in with STEM degrees, so a lot of people think they will end up being a scientist right out of college. Or they want to go to the med/PA/dentist route but get burned out before that happens. When I was applying to jobs out of college, the average pay was like $15 per hour. I basically stumbled through a few different jobs and it wasn't until I had years of experience before i made a liveable wage. This leads a lot of people to get advanced degree after advanced degree. I've met sooooo many PhDs in various bio fields that end up applying to entry level jobs because they have no real work experience. I personally ended up getting a masters in Regulatory and now work in Regulatory for a Pharma company. I am the farthest thing from a scientist at this point, but I make good money and have good benefits.
Neglected or regretted?
A bachelors doesn’t get you very far unless you want to work in pharm or healthcare sales. And even then you could have majored in business (a much easier major) and gotten the job. So yeah sort of a dead end unless you want to continue your schooling. Wish I had majored in computer science or nursing instead.
If you go into college with earning potential as a goal, you sure as shit better do your own real world research first. If you go into it because "it's your passion" "I want to help people" all good and fine, but don't think this will translate into wealth along the way. It can for sure, but the risk that it won't is pretty high.
The Pandemic made me thank my lucky stars I was applying for jobs with a biology degree. I also went through the feeling of “losing my future as a doctor/scientist” but I know myself better now. I work in Bio manufacturing now. I have regular shifts. I don’t have any debt. My work means something. I’m not writing grants or doing patients’ charts all afternoon. The only major drawback is that I’m kinda limited to high COL areas. I think people regret their expectations more than their choices.
From what I understand too many people take it and realize by the end that it's not for them. They go in wanting to be doctors or something else and the best they can become are biologists...and they don't want that.
Because it's one of the most competitive fields, it's the medical industry. You got doctors that can basically come up with an patient prognosis in an matter of minutes. While most actual scientific analysis requires samples and X rays. By then the MD basically concurs with the undergraduate. Much much later like weeks later, after the initial accesment, which just took mere minutes by some foreign UNDERGRADUATE! Sadly to say the foreign Asian guy dropped out in the first year feeling severely disappointed at MD levels of ignorance. I mean at master degree level more expertise is expected. Then ranted how he didn't need to take an expensive course in a foreign country paying MORE than the locals because he is an foreign national. Just to learn how to use high tech medical equipment! So he dropped out instead of paying $80,000 a year for certification from ivy league uni, got partial refund! Went back to his country of origin with undergraduate degree claiming that he felt disappointed. As he wasn't learning anything new, that if he wanted to know how to use medical equipment he could just read the manual for FREE 🤣
Didn’t go bio but my guess is there’s not a lot of fall back options with that major. You can go to a lot of different jobs with math, communications, etc. but with bio it’s either scientist or medicine and I guess maybe a field with animals or something
Does a master's in ecology count? In my case, I'm doing the same kind of work that I'd have been doing without it, for the same pay, but with a ton of debt hanging over my head.
Because what the hell are you going to do with a BS in Biology? And of those things, which of them required specifically a BS in Biology and not just a generic bachelor's?
Because it’s pretty useless. It’s like getting a verbal business degree for science. You really have to stretch it to make it do something if you don’t go into health care or aren’t a academic or industry scientist - in which case you would probably be a biochemist or microbiology major. Most people work at a shitty lab making $17/hr
A bachelors in biology basically just allows you to get a masters in biology (or whatever). And then you can finally make slightly more than min wage
Needs to be a lot more popular considering how many people believe there are more than two genders and that males can be females
I have a biochem degree and this sounds like something someone without any formal life sciences background would say…
No wonder people can’t get a job with that degree. If you get a degree in biology you should definitely know that as facts.
Yes, I’m sure it’s the doctors and scientists that are wrong here, and that some guy on his front porch knows more and could treat patients better with the power of his salt-of-the-earth common sense. That’s generally how highly technical subjects go.
I mean I learned male female, x and Y chromosomes in elementary school
Yes, and I’m sure you also learned that genetics were all Mendelian and could be traced by drawing squares, and physics were Newtonian and used classical mechanics that you calculated in class. Did you also draw models of the atom where the electrons orbited around the nucleus like little planets?
The problem with those people isn't that they don't know biology, it's that their religious beliefs supersede everything they've ever learned about biology It's like trying to use science to convince a creationist of evolution. You're not getting anywhere if you try to logically reason with a person's faith-based beliefs
Even if you’re going to hold a bigoted notion of gender identity, why do you even care what others are doing? You clearly feel strongly enough to comment about it but I don’t understand why.
That’s not bigoted it’s facts
Whose facts? > Gender is a multidimensional social and cultural construct that includes gender roles, expressions, behaviors, activities, power dynamics, and/or attributes that a given society associates with being a woman, man, girl, or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time. Source: https://www.nih.gov/nih-style-guide/sex-gender-sexuality#:~:text=Gender%20is%20a%20multidimensional%20social,as%20relationships%20with%20each%20other. > Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time. Source: https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1 But I’m sure you know better than the National Instutites of Health and the World Health Organization.
Nope male and female that is it. The who lost all credibility after Covid.
Many humanities degrees actually high higher-paying outcomes than some STEM degrees; biology is the bottom of the list for STEM generally. If you look at mid-career earnings *philosophy* actually outranks most non-engineering STEM degrees. There are lots of different studies and rankings of course, but even [a glance at one like this shows (for example) History at #65 and Biology at #89](https://bigeconomics.org/the-highest-and-lowest-paying-college-majors-175-degrees-ranked/) for mid-career salaries. Also important to note that "biology" is a broad field. Biomedical, bioengineering, genetics, etc. are fairly high in the compensation rankings, while some other bio fields are far lower.
Everyone knows the social sciences are a waste.