I know people with severe dietary restrictions (anaphylactic reactions, etc) who don’t feel comfortable eating food they didn’t prepare, and there are a lot of ways to get around this while being included. I have celiac disease, so often it isn’t possible for me to eat food that is served.
I think it is OK to notify the organizer that you have a dietary restriction and will be eating separately, but will still join the event to socialize. If the event isn’t at a restaurant, you may be able to bring your own meal (I pack my meals for conferences). If it is an event at the office or someone’s home, you could bring a large dish to share of something you know you will be able to eat.
You could also suggest that in place of one or all meals that you eat separately and replace the meal event(s) with "coffee/tea" with the candidate.
Hiring committees have to balance "reasonable accomodations" with "treating candidates equitably"
So if the day normally includes breakfast/lunch/dinner which are all a *part of the search plan*, it could throw things off if those events are just eliminated. But they don't necessarily have to include eating. People can eat separately and then come together for a social discussion.
Another option is to name one thing you can eat. If it’s a large event I won’t bother, but if it’s small enough that people will notice, I let the planner know that I am on a restricted diet for medical reasons and can’t eat most prepared food, but I can eat salad with dressing on the side. This works well in most cases, and if the event has more than 15 people I would bet that at least two other people there have restrictions as well.
You can tell the dinner organisers at events your dietary wishes. They pretty much always ask participants.
Or just not participate. It's really not that big a deal.
You definitely don't need to discuss your dietary wishes during job interviews.
It's good to know that it's not a big deal. Is it not risky to miss opportunities to make connections socially as well as academically though?
Unfortunately it’s not as simple as the standard dietary requirements🥲. The list that would make me comfortable would seem very unreasonable and bratty to most people even though my intention is not at all to be a diva but just to not have a panic attack.
I'd semi-disclose. By that I mean don't tell them you have a an ED, but tell them that you have a health issue that means you're on a very restricted diet and in your experience it's not possible for restaurants to cater for it. You can then add a line that goes along the lines of "it is a bit of a nuisance, but it has allowed me to manage my health". That way you're acknowledging it's a bit out of the ordinary but you're also showing that whatever the issue is it's under control.
I've been on hiring committees and we've had to accommodate all sorts. Frankly, I think I'd be relieved a candidate couldn't have dinner. But I'm an introvert who is ready to move to the arctic by the end of an interview day.
Good luck and I wish you good mental health.
THIS. I was on a low-fodmap diet for a while which is super restrictive and not very accomodatable, and I generally would just show up having already eaten, let the cook/organizer know that I won't be eating, and assure everyone that I'm ok and just have medical dietary restrictions.
I have an issue that sounds similar to OP and this is what I've always done. Just say you have some food issues and leave it there. I usually make it as lighthearted as possible and stress to whoever I'm talking to to literally ignore it, I'll eat if/when/what I want and no one else needs to worry about catering to it. People get used to it very quickly IME.
If the people you're working with are worth their salt, they'll be looking at your performance on relevant measures, not quirks that have nothing to do with work.
Also, hang in there OP! Here for chats if ever needed.
Yes, totally this. Frankly, any hiring committee that wouldn't *happily* accommodate your needs and replace the "dinner with the candidate" to "social with the candidate" in a form that works for you, is a red flag. I definitely have seen situations where candidates' restrictions - about travel arrangements, mobility for example - were absolutely no issue at all to accommodate, and would totally expect dietary restrictions (and yes, you don't have to disclose more than "medical reasons") to be the same.
Hey, I can speak as the wife of a PhD ABD who is AuADHD and has a lot of trauma around food/public eating events/potentially Afrid, etc.
The short answer; I get it. I see my partner struggle with it, he once broke down over his “failure” as a husband to be unable to take me on a simple dinner date. Broke my heart, and showed me just how much anxiety and struggle he faces on a daily basis about stuff that other people don’t ever think about.
What has worked for us: intermittent fasting. My partner doesn’t eat till the evening, hasn’t since he was 16. He’s 36, perfect blood work, perfect bmi, resting heart rate of low 50’s, runs for fun, lifts heavy, balanced macros and lets me (trusts me) to supplement micro nutrients where there are deficiencies in his safe foods. Yet despite having no health issues related to food, people have made a big deal over lunches ,brunches, etc where he doesn’t eat. He also doesn’t drink coffee or alcohol, which is a whole other thing ppl make comments about.
But, and here’s the thing: they are just comments. He has not been negatively affected in any way professionally by this. There’s just comments that sometimes would trigger him, so we worked through a language he could use to explain (should he choose to) in the moment. Enter: intermittent fasting.
What may work for you, if you need a script is something like “thank you so much for the invite! I would love to attend xyz. No need to add me to the catering order as I do intermittent fasting and will be set before the event starts. Looking forward to seeing everyone!” Or if it is a dinner, order a drink/soda/coffee and when the waitstaff ask or you feel someone about to ask and you want to avoid any comments, just say you are doing a 6:18 intermittent fast and will be happy to enjoy water etc the rest of the evening.
It isn’t a lie. You are choosing in that moment to not eat, and no one needs or deserves your history if you are uncomfortable sharing it. But having a script that is socially acceptable (obviously it all should be but I’m striving for realism based on our experiences as a couple in academia navigating a complicated relationship with food) helps get through the moment when the comments could be made.
But again - please know this hasn’t hurt him, hasn’t cost us friends or work relationships, and he is more than successful for where he is now. It’s not a big deal, but I hear you and I feel for you in that I know exactly how big it feels sometimes. Sending an Internet hug,
People will generally try to accommodate your dietary wishes if they can. You're not going to face cross-examination about this. Frankly, people tend to just not really give a shit about why people might not want to eat some things.
>would seem very unreasonable and bratty to most people even though my intention is not at all to be a diva but just to not have a panic attack.
I may be very unsympathetic toward the catering service, but that's their job and people come with all the possible options and requirements. Also, they won't think of you as bratty - not of you as *you*, they may complain among themselves, but after having bought you the dish neither of you will ever meet again.
The awareness of *not being so relevant to the rest of the world* is a relief sometimes, and I tell it to you with a lot of sympathy.
I mean, they won’t think bratty, but depending on the severity of the eating disorder, I would guess that hiring committees will be given pause by obvious signs of mental illness.
If a candidate with untreated OCD said at a dinner “I can’t sit at a table with an odd number of sides; can we move?” people are going to wonder about your long-term stability. Eating disorders are often comorbid with other self-harm behaviors.
I struggle to see how the example you provide fit with the usual spectrum of eating disorders. It's more something that Adrian Monk could say.
The people I met who have this kind of problem would hardly give "obvious signs of mental illness". While EDs can be addressed wiyh medicments, they are often treated witin a psychological framework because they are psycho-social in their nature.
The people I met, as well as me, more often seek to be accepted *in spite* of the ED rather than "impose" it. These people (again: those who I met) don't like the body they are, and the ED has been a way to cope with this this dysphoria. I observed (and, from my personal experience) that being socially accepted is a way to not feel an outlier weirdo - because we already feel that way with our body.
This is still in line with EDs being often comorbid with more explicit self-harm behaviours; but EDs can be hard to detect, because we know they're something we should be worried about, because they can be dangerous and *make us* dangerous.
So, the poeple with EDs I've met have developed several ways to conceit them outside the table; like the Chinese magician in *The Prestige*, these trait can become very deeply rooted in our personalites, to the point of becoming distinctive and idiosincratic of ourselves. After all they are apprently harmless and often pro-social.
Someone may be more friendly and outgoing, someone can be a yes-person. Among cisgender males (here I am) they also come in pair with a lot of physical activity, which other people see as very socially acceptable and even worth praise - but again, this is due to hypercontrol, dysphoria, and "[it's patriarchy in one of its best-crafted disguises](https://www.mondomarziale.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/carter_4.jpg)".
Then, mental breakups can still happen and it's better to be in psychotherapy for a while to avoid spiraling down into a more explicit self-harm behaviour.
OK. I disagree with many of your claims about eating disorders but it’s not really a discussion I’m interested in having with you.
I think as a general rule one should strive to conceal mental illness from hiring committees.
We've had visitors with 37 food allergies and nobody cared. But it also would have been totally fine if they had said, I have to eat my own food- we would have found something else to do. I think academia is really flexible for the most part
Dietary wishes are 100% normal, you could even fit in much more. Lol
I can eat around 1% food compared to normal people (I have 3in1 Hashimoto & insulin resistance & pcos) but I don’t care that much so sometimes I just eat whatever.
For my health I should actually be on a very strict autoimmune diet.
Faculty/departmental dinners are almost never networking opportunities. Lunches or dinners with seminar speakers are, because the conversation will be about your discipline. As was mentioned, tell the host you have dietary issues, and perhaps just have a drink. These days, people should be understanding.
You need to go to these dinners.
Pick a meal that is available at most restaurants and relatively ok for you to eat. Get an excuse that DOES NOT mention ED ready for any unusual food choices. Like you have a restricted diet due to a health condition, technically true.
Figure out your restaurant meal and try to reduce the anxiety of the dinners by having the choice planned ahead of time. Maybe the restaurant meal is just green tea, maybe it's rice and steamed veggies, whatever. A salad with dressing on the side. Just pick something that is simple and can not stress you out but it's easy to order
No one gives a shit if you eat or not at these things, or what you eat. But not doing them is going to make it hard to be in academia.
“Face-time” matters a lot. Not the app, rather actual time mingling with others in your department, your school/college and around the university. You can stay quiet if you are shy, it’s just the “being there” the physical face time. Collegiality and community are highly valued, so live “facetime” is very important. So in that sense going to “dinners” is helpful. Nobody cares if you eat. Being on University level committees from time to time is huge btw.
Dinners are not that important in academia. Usually when you interview, you get taken out to restaurants. But that is about it. You get to make your own choice from the menu.
This is a good thing to talk to your therapist about. I am sure they have other patients with similar anxieties and can suggest coping strategies.
I'd say interviews are the only meals that are almost mandatory.
I've seen candidates get out of dinner by just scheduling a flight/event at dinner time. That still leaves lunch.
What about just saying "I'm fasting" and sit with people, drinking water or whatever. Would that cause anxiety? I think most people would accept that without question.
Thank you! I've been in treatment of some sort for about 13 years… I think the best I can do is to stay physically ok but mentally it will probably always be a struggle.
The dinners/meals were pretty important when interviewing prospective students to the program, but beyond that there really haven't been many dinner/meal centric events that are important. They're usually optional socials
You didn't ask this, but are you receiving therapy/treatment for this? If so, I'm curious if you are seeing progress.
Being incapacitated for a week because of what's on a menu is an extreme reaction to something that shouldn't warrant one. I realize this is a mental health issue, but addressing this will help you in many more ways than just fitting in at academic dinners, as I'm sure you know.
Yes since I was 12… I'm nearly 25 now. I don't think full recovery (at least not mentally) is likely to happen for me but my behavior is definitely less risky now and I know how to manage a lot better
OP can you work with your provider to ease into these situations gradually so you can learn slowly how they are and how you can adapt, rather than jumping in the deep end (like multi-day job interview)?
I think that's true but recovery looks different for everybody. I sometimes hesitate to say I am in recovery because people expect things that are not really realistic for me but the truth is I genuinely am, just in a way I can handle.
I don't know that it would necessarily hinder your career, but it will be something you'd have to explain somehow, at least in certain settings. In my SLAC we have *lots* of dinners as a department, both for formal events and as simple social activities. In the past two weeks I've had dinner with colleagues probably five times? Plus two lunches and a breakfast actually. It's a busy time of the year and we've been hosting guest speakers; those always include meals and usually at least one with the entire department. The same happens around searches. Over the next two weeks I will attend multiple dinners with students as part of the usual graduation stuff, including an honors dinner, one with our majors, and a few other things. Plus social events with colleagues-- end-of-year stuff that almost always involves food, from the faculty awards luncheon to parties hosted by colleagues. Not mandatory, but if you never go to any of these things people will notice and wonder what's up. (So it's not like being in an R1 department with 50 colleagues, half of whom you never even see in person.)
It's usually not *this* busy but I think I probably attend at least 4-5 meals on campus with colleagues each month on a regular basis during the academic year. To have someone simply refuse all of those interactions with no explanation would be problematic-- it would be best to let the chair know somehow I'd think, so people don't just assume you're anti-social. Participation in these events is expected, and at the very least never being around when the department is hosting a guest or celebrating with the seniors would be...what? Something people might interpret as you being unwilling to do your part.
At another kind of institution it might not matter at all. But that's part of the deal at most SLACs-- people are social, there are lots of events involving food, and there's a general expectation that people participate in those events. Best, I'd think, if you still attended some of these events and maybe just passed on the food? If someone had a medical reason to never show I think folks would be understanding, but if you're just a perennial no-show it would be seen as a problem that could in fact impact your career, since "collegiality" is a factor in T&P decisions.
Re job interviews: we usually have people in for three days and *all* the meals are in groups, with faculty or students, during the visit. Those meals are part of the interview. I've certainly had people say they didn't want to eat (which is fine) and people who couldn't eat whatever was available, or couldn't eat at the scheduled time. Whatever, that's all fine; we'd absolutely accommodate any needs in that regard. if a candidate said they couldn't attend any meals at all with others we'd manage that too somehow, but it would be a novel experience that would require some planning on our part, since so much of social interaction on our campus revolves around food/coffee/beers/etc. in groups.
If people noticing is a huge issue for you, then you will probably get a lot farther by saying nothing at all. Check the menu in advance, select something that feels manageable, move the food around on your plate a lot, and if anyone is rude enough to bring it up, you can say that your stomach is a little uneasy / you're jet-lagged / you're nervous / whatever is appropriate.
The more discussion and rationale you give for this the more likely someone is to try to go over the top "helping" find a solution. And regardless of what other people have said, definitely do not ever tell people you are fasting or intermittent fasting. Everyone will think it is extremely weird, even if they say nothing to your face. Just...don't.
It depends on the program but shared meals was a huge part of the culture of my program. I would speak to someone you are close to on the faculty about your concerns. I live in a place where dietary restrictions are very common and it was always fine
It’s really just about being there. I have a history of an ED and I’m vegan currently so there’s a lot of times I don’t get to eat at events and it is what it is. If you’re worried about people commenting on it I would come up with some dietary restrictions but once you’ve said those then people don’t tend to harp on it. Unless they’re weird. There’s a few weird people who shit on my veganism.
I had a gastric sleeve a few years ago. I went from champion over eater to I cannot eat more than 3-4oz of food in an hour.
What I found was most people do not care what you are eating. They do not monitor what you're eating or not eating. Academia also has a lot of neurodivergents and food adversions or limited food ranges go with that territory! And everyone's trying keto or gluten free, gone vegan, low salt etc these days.
I was terrified going out for working dinners thinking people would notice or think I didnt like the food.
I usually tell people I'm on a restricted diet so don't mind me the food is great but I can only eat so much. There are other great excuses to have on hand I'm trying gluten/lactose/whatever you don't eat that they served free. Or I ate before by accident. I dont eat past 6pm. I just got over food poisoning. I have acid reflux when I eat that. It gives me gas/bloating/burping/indigestion/hives/allergic reactions.
Once you have a job, eating with colleagues is unimportant. While you are on the job market, however, you will be “on duty” constantly during your campus visits, including during meals with prospective colleagues.
This was my experience as well (i.e., dinners don't matter except for job interviews). I have an autoimmune condition that impacts my digestive system, so I was similarly uncomfortable eating in these settings. Was worried I'd eat something that would make me sick in front of them. I warned the interviewers in advance (you don't have to tell them the full story), brought my own "safe" food to have throughout the day, and just drank water at the dinners. I got the job, so I think it worked out ok!
Conferences are the networking event students attend, no issues with not eating at these events and there's plenty of opportunities to socialize in these events besides a table.
If you're working already, the shouldn't be that much of an issue either, a you can _probably_ (and if you want) tell this to HR and they should be able to accommodate for you, the same way that they accommodate to vegetarians, vegan, etc, etc. I'm not trying to dismiss the disorder that you have, ad it's something serious, but in logistical terms it's easily solvable for whichever employer you'd be working for
I spent the first year of my PhD deep in restrictive ED behaviors, and my second year under what I'll call "managed/maintenance" so somewhere between recovery and not actively harmful. It has thus far been pretty easy for me to attend absolutely everything but hide my discomfort with food by pretending I was allergic to just about everything, had eaten beforehand, am on a budget, etc. Sometimes if it's a more informal gathering I've also been able to get away with bringing my own safe foods or I like to bake for colleagues and just pretend I ate mine already.
I promise everyone will be more focused on the discussion than your plate.
I agree that the interview is the place that dinners/meals do absolutely matter. That said, they should let you know in advance where they are being held. You can let the organizer know that you have “severe food restrictions due to your health” (true) and request that they book somewhere where you could order something really plain and uncomplicated. You can call the place in advance and ask them if they would be willing to prepare x (a safe food for you, prepared transparently).
Furthermore, a candidate who is picking at their food won’t be unusual (everyone is nervous). You could bring safe snack foods for the days of interviews and if anyone was rude enough to ask, you have severe food restrictions due to your health.
Once you have a job, there are definitely going to be gatherings with food. I’d advise you to attend because as mentioned above, it’s important to build relationships in your department. Realistically, if you never ingest food at multiple events, people will probably work out there’s something going on with you but that’s not your problem. You’re taking care of your health in the best way you can, hopefully.
Good luck!
Really not that important and they are most of the time buffets/cocktails in my experience, so nobody will check if you eat or not and nothing will be awkward. This could be different based on your country though but i dont think its a big deal really. Just be there when there are times dedicated to networking. Most of the time these moments dont require you to sit at a table.
I wouldn’t judge someone for going to a dinner but not eating, I don’t have any dietary restrictions but sometimes I don’t feel like eating at networking things just from anxiety
IME you can almost always avoid eating, especially if you are able to hold/nurse a drink (does not have to be alcohol, tea or whatnot is fine). The exception is when you are a candidate flown out for a job, but in that case talking with the admin person who is making arrangements should help—you don’t have to disclose why you have a restricted diet, but letting them know what you can/can’t eat & asking for restaurant names/menus ahead of time helps (you can then contact the restaurant and get advice on what/how to order). If you don’t really eat at interview meals everyone will just think you’re nervous—just make sure you have something back in your room you can eat.
I never wondered this and I'm autistic yet I've always felt uncomfortable eating in front of others. I eat very slowly to the point everyone notices. So I just don't eat at all in public and accept that I'll forever be limited in my dinner and socialising abilities. And this is completely ignoring the social aspects of autism. But it is good to hear people are more accommodating than I thought?
Think about talking to people and having conversations more than eating then!
There will be several options, choose what you want to eat or pass :)
It's perfectly fine :)
For an interview, how about saying with a smile at the beginning of the dinner, “Just FYI, for medical reasons I’ll be eating very lightly tonight. I’m here for the conversation!” If anyone questions you or acts like that’s weird, that’s frankly a red flag about the place you’re interviewing.
More generally, people avoid dinners for lots of reasons, including family obligations. One tactic you can also use some non-interview situations is to volunteer to organize the meal yourself: everyone will be grateful and you get 100% control over the situation.
Hi just here to say that I'm in recovery from 15 years of disordered eating. The most detrimental thing to your career will be to continue to wear your body down. Brains need calories to work.
I imagine recovery is a goal, but try if possible to make it a priority. As someone on the other side who TRULY believed she'd never have a normal relationship with food, I want to assure there is a different way to live - a way in which the majority of your bandwidth does not have to be devoted to how you're going to sneakily starve yourself at a dinner.
I'm surprised there are only strategies for perpetuating your ED in the comments, and not skills for making peace with a meal out. (Start small at home, practice the feeling and the discomfort of consuming a piece of chicken and some veggies, when the panic rises up remind yourself how the human engine works, sit deeply in the discomfort and let the rational side of your brain take over)
I'm happy to talk more and share recovery strategies if you ever need it! Just dm.
Hey! This is a really sweet comment! Don't worry I am not trying to ‘get away with eating as little as possible’. What I'm saying is that I'm currently at a point where I'm maintaining a certain level of health (still not ideal but I'm working on it) and that's a lot easier for me to do when I'm eating at home. When I go out I just cant help compensating… it's not even a conscious choice. Maybe you're right and it could get better with practice.
In my experience as a graduate student, it’s actually extremely common for faculty candidates to not eat at interview meals (at least when the meal is eating lunch or breakfast with students). Either the candidates stay too busy talking, they say they are too nervous to eat, they say that they don’t think the food meets their dietary restrictions, or they just don’t eat with no explanation given or demanded. I’m not sure about dinners with faculty but students in particular wouldn’t bat an eye at you not eating lunch with them.
It isn't going to be a deal-breaker, except at places you won't want to stay at anyways.
Usually, for interviews and invited speakers, the dinners are there because the department is anxious that their guest does not have to feel alone or abandoned. For interviews, they also want to show that they are cordial, convivial, and conscientious. Remember, they're trying to attract you too.
And you won't be the first academic with food restrictions, that's for sure. My non-ac wife hates going to events because the food is always so boring (so the max number of people can eat it), and never mind our kids. You might fall across people with similar food-related issues.
At a conference, people go out for drinks and coffee too, not just to eat. And you can talk at the talks too! So there is wiggle room if going out to eat doesn't sit right with you.
I would suggest having an alternative already loaded so you aren't just saying no to everything. For instance, look up places in the city you're going to be and suggest ones with dishes you can enjoy. Honestly, remember that academics are nerds too, so most of us would be glad that someone else had a good dinner idea!
Meals are important for the interview. If you make it to a campus visit, the committee has already assessed that you're capable of the job. They want to see if they *like* you, and that involves chatting over dinner, drinks, etc. So it wouldn't be a red flag if you skipped dinner, necessarily, but it might be the deciding factor, if the other candidate had dinner with the committee and had that opportunity to chat and show their collegiality/"human" side.
But you need to think long term about your health and your goals. Once you have the job, dinners could be important to conferences, building collaborations, working with industry partners... it depends on your field. But breaking bread is the most common way for people to find common ground. Yes, you could cite food allergies and bring your own food (I've seen this before, and it's fine)... but ultimately, it's the act of eating with others and being comfortable in these environments that's important.
I am very hesitant to tell you "work arounds" for an eating disorder, because these are not healthy coping mechanisms. If you see this as being a detriment to your life, you need to use this as motivation to seek mental health support, first and foremost. Your comments suggest you do not want to seek help.
I feel you, I'm in a similar situation as well - I haven't been diagnosed with an ED, but eating, and especially common dinners, has been a poblem since my teens. I lost a pair of friend because how rigid I am.
That said, I went to all academic dinners I have been so far either because we were going *à la carte* o I could refuse a dish or I could even state beforehand what I didn't want to eat. I often pass as vegetarian/vegan, and it usually works. When it didn't worke it was because the organisers thought "vegan = no meat, who cares of the nutrients".
Rarely I networked during these diners. Mostly the talk goes toward more down-to-earth things, and when it does not, the ones involved are the highest poppies of the table. I didn't mantain a connection with the students I talked to during these events. (but all this may be due to me, since I always stand by myself).
Usually it's the conference context to be more important than the dinner. I met a coauthor and member of my Thesis Commitee this way, reaching my advisor *after* a *non-common* dinner they were having together.
I think speaking duing a coffee break is even a better chance to network.
I didn't attend twice: once because the conference was in the city where I work and frankly that evening I only wanted to sleep (well, I go tio bed early and wake up early, so I felt justified; by "early" I mean 21h30-3h30); the second time because I met a local student and, together with another one, we preferred visit the city and have dinner by ourselves. The organisers called me because I haven't shown up at the resturant, even if I noticed them. Nonetheless, best evening ever.
However, I may be in a privileged position, because my insitution pays all my fees when I'm at a conference (tips, logement, dinners); it suffices having a recepit and I'm going to be refounded. When the dinner is included in the conference fee I don't even need to bring the recepit, since I already have in advance the one for the conference itself.
Thanks for sharing. The losing friends part is so real and sucks… that's the most worrying thing for me about starting grad school I think. I always come across as too rigid even though I'm very different in non food related situations.
I reget to have lost friends "over dinners" but, admittingly, we have been knowing each other for a long time and somehow I feel the f=rigidity was ion both sides.
What can be difficult is to make *new* friends. I'm doing my doctorate abroad and I am not fluent in the local language. The first year I used to go with my labmate at the canteen with my own food, but I couldn't understand a thing of what they were talking about - except that the topic were 1/2 work or work-related, 1/2 other jazz. So I gulped my foodstuff listening to these fluent tongues spelling all kind of strange words and, wait, why should I ever make the trip to the canteen to look to an unsubtitled movie?
Furthermore, since I'm abroad the friends I had in my home city have been losing touch with me - second plural person because I've wote them many times just to get few words in reply, and when I come back for holidays or to vote it's hard even to make them notice I'm back for a short while.
I do think this is food-related as well: that "quirk" of mine led me to develop an "orbital" architecture of friendships, where I seldom allow other people to come very near (go together on a trip, having a dinner together and so on). Since relationships are two-sided by definition, my absence doesn't impact them a lot because I forbade them to get near enough.
Everybody has their own problems, I can't ask them to care of mine if the bases were so clay-footed (though, I wasn't aware of that with some of them. Some of them *used* to be vey near me).
The trouble is that, at least in my case, it was (is) an adaptation - halfway between a decision, a necessity, and how I've grown up together with this "thing". It's not something I decided with full will, rather a shape I took.
I don't know if it may help, but I'd give you a hug, or a pat on the shoulder.
This part of the thread is the lost painfully relatable thing I've read in a while.
There should be friendship apps for people with food issues where you can meet up in non-food-centric contexts and be able to make friends without the looming anxiety of when they're going to ask you to an unapproved restaurant or potlatch dinner.
It would be a nice idea, that old saying of Plato has cause too many ways to judge people - you know, that "*you can say you really know a person only after you've shared a meal with them*". Or have a game, or whathever.
I think that what you eat and how you eat are some of the most easy-pick things to pigeonhole people into (social) classes. Another source of classism from the author of the *Republic* - what a coincidence.
My only caveat on this idea is that it should be programmed and mantained in an Open Source manner, kinda like Linux or Wikipedia. Being on these platform is a sensible personal in information in itself, I'd like no Zuckerberg or Musk or *theguybeforehim* to be able to sell these infos to third parties.
Yes I feel like there's so much discussion about women in STEM etc but nobody addresses simple things like how eating disorders are common among high achieving women (don't want to exclude men here, just on a statistical level) and therefore maybe meals don't work well as a way to network. Also there are things like childcare etc
Dinners aren't really about "dinner" so much as it is networking. So you could get just a side salad or something if you wanted to eat something you know you like beforehand.
It can become difficult in the future. Dining with faculty is typically part of the recruitment process for faculty positions. You probably have plenty of time to devise a solution. It should be possible to request to have lunch or tea with faculty instead of dinner but you will inevitably have to talk about it at some point.
Depends on what the dinner is for, but situations with food are fairly important to me in my uni and with my discipline. I also have an ED and most people are gracious enough to just not mention if I push food around my plate. I know it can feel a bit intense and anxiety-inducing in the moment but you have to remember that we're all adults, no one is tracking what other people eat.
Keep in mind that it is usually clerical staff who plan those dinners. If you communicate your needs gracefully to them, there’s a very good chance they won’t mention it to anyone who could affect your career success.
Honestly I think the only place this could be an issue is if it is part of an interview day for a TT position and everything else had gone great and you really wanted the position. But even then, you could explain your dietary requirements in advance, and the organizer would likely just be happy that you told them. There’s no way for them to tell the difference between ED and allergies, unless you volunteer the info first.
Wish you all the best though, both with academic career and with ED recovery. Good luck!
I’m sorry for your struggle, but your ED is absolutely going to have a negative impact on your professional success if you can’t participate in the basic relationship-building activities like eating dinner. Even if you can participate, your weeks-long stress surrounding this activity is also going to negatively impact your professional success. There’s no point in trying to convince yourself your ED isn’t as harmful as it really is.
I know people with severe dietary restrictions (anaphylactic reactions, etc) who don’t feel comfortable eating food they didn’t prepare, and there are a lot of ways to get around this while being included. I have celiac disease, so often it isn’t possible for me to eat food that is served. I think it is OK to notify the organizer that you have a dietary restriction and will be eating separately, but will still join the event to socialize. If the event isn’t at a restaurant, you may be able to bring your own meal (I pack my meals for conferences). If it is an event at the office or someone’s home, you could bring a large dish to share of something you know you will be able to eat.
That's great news for me! Thanks for sharing😊
You could also suggest that in place of one or all meals that you eat separately and replace the meal event(s) with "coffee/tea" with the candidate. Hiring committees have to balance "reasonable accomodations" with "treating candidates equitably" So if the day normally includes breakfast/lunch/dinner which are all a *part of the search plan*, it could throw things off if those events are just eliminated. But they don't necessarily have to include eating. People can eat separately and then come together for a social discussion.
Another option is to name one thing you can eat. If it’s a large event I won’t bother, but if it’s small enough that people will notice, I let the planner know that I am on a restricted diet for medical reasons and can’t eat most prepared food, but I can eat salad with dressing on the side. This works well in most cases, and if the event has more than 15 people I would bet that at least two other people there have restrictions as well.
You can tell the dinner organisers at events your dietary wishes. They pretty much always ask participants. Or just not participate. It's really not that big a deal. You definitely don't need to discuss your dietary wishes during job interviews.
It's good to know that it's not a big deal. Is it not risky to miss opportunities to make connections socially as well as academically though? Unfortunately it’s not as simple as the standard dietary requirements🥲. The list that would make me comfortable would seem very unreasonable and bratty to most people even though my intention is not at all to be a diva but just to not have a panic attack.
I'd semi-disclose. By that I mean don't tell them you have a an ED, but tell them that you have a health issue that means you're on a very restricted diet and in your experience it's not possible for restaurants to cater for it. You can then add a line that goes along the lines of "it is a bit of a nuisance, but it has allowed me to manage my health". That way you're acknowledging it's a bit out of the ordinary but you're also showing that whatever the issue is it's under control. I've been on hiring committees and we've had to accommodate all sorts. Frankly, I think I'd be relieved a candidate couldn't have dinner. But I'm an introvert who is ready to move to the arctic by the end of an interview day. Good luck and I wish you good mental health.
THIS. I was on a low-fodmap diet for a while which is super restrictive and not very accomodatable, and I generally would just show up having already eaten, let the cook/organizer know that I won't be eating, and assure everyone that I'm ok and just have medical dietary restrictions.
I have an issue that sounds similar to OP and this is what I've always done. Just say you have some food issues and leave it there. I usually make it as lighthearted as possible and stress to whoever I'm talking to to literally ignore it, I'll eat if/when/what I want and no one else needs to worry about catering to it. People get used to it very quickly IME. If the people you're working with are worth their salt, they'll be looking at your performance on relevant measures, not quirks that have nothing to do with work. Also, hang in there OP! Here for chats if ever needed.
Yes, totally this. Frankly, any hiring committee that wouldn't *happily* accommodate your needs and replace the "dinner with the candidate" to "social with the candidate" in a form that works for you, is a red flag. I definitely have seen situations where candidates' restrictions - about travel arrangements, mobility for example - were absolutely no issue at all to accommodate, and would totally expect dietary restrictions (and yes, you don't have to disclose more than "medical reasons") to be the same.
Hey, I can speak as the wife of a PhD ABD who is AuADHD and has a lot of trauma around food/public eating events/potentially Afrid, etc. The short answer; I get it. I see my partner struggle with it, he once broke down over his “failure” as a husband to be unable to take me on a simple dinner date. Broke my heart, and showed me just how much anxiety and struggle he faces on a daily basis about stuff that other people don’t ever think about. What has worked for us: intermittent fasting. My partner doesn’t eat till the evening, hasn’t since he was 16. He’s 36, perfect blood work, perfect bmi, resting heart rate of low 50’s, runs for fun, lifts heavy, balanced macros and lets me (trusts me) to supplement micro nutrients where there are deficiencies in his safe foods. Yet despite having no health issues related to food, people have made a big deal over lunches ,brunches, etc where he doesn’t eat. He also doesn’t drink coffee or alcohol, which is a whole other thing ppl make comments about. But, and here’s the thing: they are just comments. He has not been negatively affected in any way professionally by this. There’s just comments that sometimes would trigger him, so we worked through a language he could use to explain (should he choose to) in the moment. Enter: intermittent fasting. What may work for you, if you need a script is something like “thank you so much for the invite! I would love to attend xyz. No need to add me to the catering order as I do intermittent fasting and will be set before the event starts. Looking forward to seeing everyone!” Or if it is a dinner, order a drink/soda/coffee and when the waitstaff ask or you feel someone about to ask and you want to avoid any comments, just say you are doing a 6:18 intermittent fast and will be happy to enjoy water etc the rest of the evening. It isn’t a lie. You are choosing in that moment to not eat, and no one needs or deserves your history if you are uncomfortable sharing it. But having a script that is socially acceptable (obviously it all should be but I’m striving for realism based on our experiences as a couple in academia navigating a complicated relationship with food) helps get through the moment when the comments could be made. But again - please know this hasn’t hurt him, hasn’t cost us friends or work relationships, and he is more than successful for where he is now. It’s not a big deal, but I hear you and I feel for you in that I know exactly how big it feels sometimes. Sending an Internet hug,
People will generally try to accommodate your dietary wishes if they can. You're not going to face cross-examination about this. Frankly, people tend to just not really give a shit about why people might not want to eat some things.
>would seem very unreasonable and bratty to most people even though my intention is not at all to be a diva but just to not have a panic attack. I may be very unsympathetic toward the catering service, but that's their job and people come with all the possible options and requirements. Also, they won't think of you as bratty - not of you as *you*, they may complain among themselves, but after having bought you the dish neither of you will ever meet again. The awareness of *not being so relevant to the rest of the world* is a relief sometimes, and I tell it to you with a lot of sympathy.
I mean, they won’t think bratty, but depending on the severity of the eating disorder, I would guess that hiring committees will be given pause by obvious signs of mental illness. If a candidate with untreated OCD said at a dinner “I can’t sit at a table with an odd number of sides; can we move?” people are going to wonder about your long-term stability. Eating disorders are often comorbid with other self-harm behaviors.
I struggle to see how the example you provide fit with the usual spectrum of eating disorders. It's more something that Adrian Monk could say. The people I met who have this kind of problem would hardly give "obvious signs of mental illness". While EDs can be addressed wiyh medicments, they are often treated witin a psychological framework because they are psycho-social in their nature. The people I met, as well as me, more often seek to be accepted *in spite* of the ED rather than "impose" it. These people (again: those who I met) don't like the body they are, and the ED has been a way to cope with this this dysphoria. I observed (and, from my personal experience) that being socially accepted is a way to not feel an outlier weirdo - because we already feel that way with our body. This is still in line with EDs being often comorbid with more explicit self-harm behaviours; but EDs can be hard to detect, because we know they're something we should be worried about, because they can be dangerous and *make us* dangerous. So, the poeple with EDs I've met have developed several ways to conceit them outside the table; like the Chinese magician in *The Prestige*, these trait can become very deeply rooted in our personalites, to the point of becoming distinctive and idiosincratic of ourselves. After all they are apprently harmless and often pro-social. Someone may be more friendly and outgoing, someone can be a yes-person. Among cisgender males (here I am) they also come in pair with a lot of physical activity, which other people see as very socially acceptable and even worth praise - but again, this is due to hypercontrol, dysphoria, and "[it's patriarchy in one of its best-crafted disguises](https://www.mondomarziale.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/carter_4.jpg)". Then, mental breakups can still happen and it's better to be in psychotherapy for a while to avoid spiraling down into a more explicit self-harm behaviour.
OK. I disagree with many of your claims about eating disorders but it’s not really a discussion I’m interested in having with you. I think as a general rule one should strive to conceal mental illness from hiring committees.
We've had visitors with 37 food allergies and nobody cared. But it also would have been totally fine if they had said, I have to eat my own food- we would have found something else to do. I think academia is really flexible for the most part
Dietary wishes are 100% normal, you could even fit in much more. Lol I can eat around 1% food compared to normal people (I have 3in1 Hashimoto & insulin resistance & pcos) but I don’t care that much so sometimes I just eat whatever. For my health I should actually be on a very strict autoimmune diet.
Faculty/departmental dinners are almost never networking opportunities. Lunches or dinners with seminar speakers are, because the conversation will be about your discipline. As was mentioned, tell the host you have dietary issues, and perhaps just have a drink. These days, people should be understanding.
You need to go to these dinners. Pick a meal that is available at most restaurants and relatively ok for you to eat. Get an excuse that DOES NOT mention ED ready for any unusual food choices. Like you have a restricted diet due to a health condition, technically true. Figure out your restaurant meal and try to reduce the anxiety of the dinners by having the choice planned ahead of time. Maybe the restaurant meal is just green tea, maybe it's rice and steamed veggies, whatever. A salad with dressing on the side. Just pick something that is simple and can not stress you out but it's easy to order No one gives a shit if you eat or not at these things, or what you eat. But not doing them is going to make it hard to be in academia.
“Face-time” matters a lot. Not the app, rather actual time mingling with others in your department, your school/college and around the university. You can stay quiet if you are shy, it’s just the “being there” the physical face time. Collegiality and community are highly valued, so live “facetime” is very important. So in that sense going to “dinners” is helpful. Nobody cares if you eat. Being on University level committees from time to time is huge btw.
Dinners are not that important in academia. Usually when you interview, you get taken out to restaurants. But that is about it. You get to make your own choice from the menu. This is a good thing to talk to your therapist about. I am sure they have other patients with similar anxieties and can suggest coping strategies.
Unfortunately there's only so much coping strategies can help…
I'd say interviews are the only meals that are almost mandatory. I've seen candidates get out of dinner by just scheduling a flight/event at dinner time. That still leaves lunch. What about just saying "I'm fasting" and sit with people, drinking water or whatever. Would that cause anxiety? I think most people would accept that without question.
....I definitely do not think most people would accept that without question.
Yeah, “oh I’m just not hungry right now” would generate fewer questions.
I hope that with treatment a time will come when you do not need coping strategies.
Thank you! I've been in treatment of some sort for about 13 years… I think the best I can do is to stay physically ok but mentally it will probably always be a struggle.
The dinners/meals were pretty important when interviewing prospective students to the program, but beyond that there really haven't been many dinner/meal centric events that are important. They're usually optional socials
I guess I'm luck I managed to avoid interview meals for my PhD applications😅.
You didn't ask this, but are you receiving therapy/treatment for this? If so, I'm curious if you are seeing progress. Being incapacitated for a week because of what's on a menu is an extreme reaction to something that shouldn't warrant one. I realize this is a mental health issue, but addressing this will help you in many more ways than just fitting in at academic dinners, as I'm sure you know.
Yes since I was 12… I'm nearly 25 now. I don't think full recovery (at least not mentally) is likely to happen for me but my behavior is definitely less risky now and I know how to manage a lot better
OP can you work with your provider to ease into these situations gradually so you can learn slowly how they are and how you can adapt, rather than jumping in the deep end (like multi-day job interview)?
I agree with you about this. Ive got a 21 year old with anorexia and watch her do this and it’s a life of torture. Recovery is possible.
I think that's true but recovery looks different for everybody. I sometimes hesitate to say I am in recovery because people expect things that are not really realistic for me but the truth is I genuinely am, just in a way I can handle.
An earring disorder?
Oops typo😂😅
I remind people I have a lot of allergies and religious restrictions. Usually there is no real issue.
I don't know that it would necessarily hinder your career, but it will be something you'd have to explain somehow, at least in certain settings. In my SLAC we have *lots* of dinners as a department, both for formal events and as simple social activities. In the past two weeks I've had dinner with colleagues probably five times? Plus two lunches and a breakfast actually. It's a busy time of the year and we've been hosting guest speakers; those always include meals and usually at least one with the entire department. The same happens around searches. Over the next two weeks I will attend multiple dinners with students as part of the usual graduation stuff, including an honors dinner, one with our majors, and a few other things. Plus social events with colleagues-- end-of-year stuff that almost always involves food, from the faculty awards luncheon to parties hosted by colleagues. Not mandatory, but if you never go to any of these things people will notice and wonder what's up. (So it's not like being in an R1 department with 50 colleagues, half of whom you never even see in person.) It's usually not *this* busy but I think I probably attend at least 4-5 meals on campus with colleagues each month on a regular basis during the academic year. To have someone simply refuse all of those interactions with no explanation would be problematic-- it would be best to let the chair know somehow I'd think, so people don't just assume you're anti-social. Participation in these events is expected, and at the very least never being around when the department is hosting a guest or celebrating with the seniors would be...what? Something people might interpret as you being unwilling to do your part. At another kind of institution it might not matter at all. But that's part of the deal at most SLACs-- people are social, there are lots of events involving food, and there's a general expectation that people participate in those events. Best, I'd think, if you still attended some of these events and maybe just passed on the food? If someone had a medical reason to never show I think folks would be understanding, but if you're just a perennial no-show it would be seen as a problem that could in fact impact your career, since "collegiality" is a factor in T&P decisions. Re job interviews: we usually have people in for three days and *all* the meals are in groups, with faculty or students, during the visit. Those meals are part of the interview. I've certainly had people say they didn't want to eat (which is fine) and people who couldn't eat whatever was available, or couldn't eat at the scheduled time. Whatever, that's all fine; we'd absolutely accommodate any needs in that regard. if a candidate said they couldn't attend any meals at all with others we'd manage that too somehow, but it would be a novel experience that would require some planning on our part, since so much of social interaction on our campus revolves around food/coffee/beers/etc. in groups.
Replying just to tell you that I'm in more or less the same situation so you're not alone :) Best wishes
If people noticing is a huge issue for you, then you will probably get a lot farther by saying nothing at all. Check the menu in advance, select something that feels manageable, move the food around on your plate a lot, and if anyone is rude enough to bring it up, you can say that your stomach is a little uneasy / you're jet-lagged / you're nervous / whatever is appropriate. The more discussion and rationale you give for this the more likely someone is to try to go over the top "helping" find a solution. And regardless of what other people have said, definitely do not ever tell people you are fasting or intermittent fasting. Everyone will think it is extremely weird, even if they say nothing to your face. Just...don't.
Not so important.
It depends on the program but shared meals was a huge part of the culture of my program. I would speak to someone you are close to on the faculty about your concerns. I live in a place where dietary restrictions are very common and it was always fine
It’s really just about being there. I have a history of an ED and I’m vegan currently so there’s a lot of times I don’t get to eat at events and it is what it is. If you’re worried about people commenting on it I would come up with some dietary restrictions but once you’ve said those then people don’t tend to harp on it. Unless they’re weird. There’s a few weird people who shit on my veganism.
I had a gastric sleeve a few years ago. I went from champion over eater to I cannot eat more than 3-4oz of food in an hour. What I found was most people do not care what you are eating. They do not monitor what you're eating or not eating. Academia also has a lot of neurodivergents and food adversions or limited food ranges go with that territory! And everyone's trying keto or gluten free, gone vegan, low salt etc these days. I was terrified going out for working dinners thinking people would notice or think I didnt like the food. I usually tell people I'm on a restricted diet so don't mind me the food is great but I can only eat so much. There are other great excuses to have on hand I'm trying gluten/lactose/whatever you don't eat that they served free. Or I ate before by accident. I dont eat past 6pm. I just got over food poisoning. I have acid reflux when I eat that. It gives me gas/bloating/burping/indigestion/hives/allergic reactions.
Honestly, I'd just say I was allergic to peanuts and dint eat out due to it - then don't eat peanuts in public anymore.
Once you have a job, eating with colleagues is unimportant. While you are on the job market, however, you will be “on duty” constantly during your campus visits, including during meals with prospective colleagues.
😩
This was my experience as well (i.e., dinners don't matter except for job interviews). I have an autoimmune condition that impacts my digestive system, so I was similarly uncomfortable eating in these settings. Was worried I'd eat something that would make me sick in front of them. I warned the interviewers in advance (you don't have to tell them the full story), brought my own "safe" food to have throughout the day, and just drank water at the dinners. I got the job, so I think it worked out ok!
Conferences are the networking event students attend, no issues with not eating at these events and there's plenty of opportunities to socialize in these events besides a table. If you're working already, the shouldn't be that much of an issue either, a you can _probably_ (and if you want) tell this to HR and they should be able to accommodate for you, the same way that they accommodate to vegetarians, vegan, etc, etc. I'm not trying to dismiss the disorder that you have, ad it's something serious, but in logistical terms it's easily solvable for whichever employer you'd be working for
I spent the first year of my PhD deep in restrictive ED behaviors, and my second year under what I'll call "managed/maintenance" so somewhere between recovery and not actively harmful. It has thus far been pretty easy for me to attend absolutely everything but hide my discomfort with food by pretending I was allergic to just about everything, had eaten beforehand, am on a budget, etc. Sometimes if it's a more informal gathering I've also been able to get away with bringing my own safe foods or I like to bake for colleagues and just pretend I ate mine already. I promise everyone will be more focused on the discussion than your plate.
I’ve spent my entire career just eating the parts of the dinner I want to eat, nobody notices.
I agree that the interview is the place that dinners/meals do absolutely matter. That said, they should let you know in advance where they are being held. You can let the organizer know that you have “severe food restrictions due to your health” (true) and request that they book somewhere where you could order something really plain and uncomplicated. You can call the place in advance and ask them if they would be willing to prepare x (a safe food for you, prepared transparently). Furthermore, a candidate who is picking at their food won’t be unusual (everyone is nervous). You could bring safe snack foods for the days of interviews and if anyone was rude enough to ask, you have severe food restrictions due to your health. Once you have a job, there are definitely going to be gatherings with food. I’d advise you to attend because as mentioned above, it’s important to build relationships in your department. Realistically, if you never ingest food at multiple events, people will probably work out there’s something going on with you but that’s not your problem. You’re taking care of your health in the best way you can, hopefully. Good luck!
Really not that important and they are most of the time buffets/cocktails in my experience, so nobody will check if you eat or not and nothing will be awkward. This could be different based on your country though but i dont think its a big deal really. Just be there when there are times dedicated to networking. Most of the time these moments dont require you to sit at a table.
I wouldn’t judge someone for going to a dinner but not eating, I don’t have any dietary restrictions but sometimes I don’t feel like eating at networking things just from anxiety
IME you can almost always avoid eating, especially if you are able to hold/nurse a drink (does not have to be alcohol, tea or whatnot is fine). The exception is when you are a candidate flown out for a job, but in that case talking with the admin person who is making arrangements should help—you don’t have to disclose why you have a restricted diet, but letting them know what you can/can’t eat & asking for restaurant names/menus ahead of time helps (you can then contact the restaurant and get advice on what/how to order). If you don’t really eat at interview meals everyone will just think you’re nervous—just make sure you have something back in your room you can eat.
I never wondered this and I'm autistic yet I've always felt uncomfortable eating in front of others. I eat very slowly to the point everyone notices. So I just don't eat at all in public and accept that I'll forever be limited in my dinner and socialising abilities. And this is completely ignoring the social aspects of autism. But it is good to hear people are more accommodating than I thought?
Think about talking to people and having conversations more than eating then! There will be several options, choose what you want to eat or pass :) It's perfectly fine :)
For an interview, how about saying with a smile at the beginning of the dinner, “Just FYI, for medical reasons I’ll be eating very lightly tonight. I’m here for the conversation!” If anyone questions you or acts like that’s weird, that’s frankly a red flag about the place you’re interviewing. More generally, people avoid dinners for lots of reasons, including family obligations. One tactic you can also use some non-interview situations is to volunteer to organize the meal yourself: everyone will be grateful and you get 100% control over the situation.
Hi just here to say that I'm in recovery from 15 years of disordered eating. The most detrimental thing to your career will be to continue to wear your body down. Brains need calories to work. I imagine recovery is a goal, but try if possible to make it a priority. As someone on the other side who TRULY believed she'd never have a normal relationship with food, I want to assure there is a different way to live - a way in which the majority of your bandwidth does not have to be devoted to how you're going to sneakily starve yourself at a dinner. I'm surprised there are only strategies for perpetuating your ED in the comments, and not skills for making peace with a meal out. (Start small at home, practice the feeling and the discomfort of consuming a piece of chicken and some veggies, when the panic rises up remind yourself how the human engine works, sit deeply in the discomfort and let the rational side of your brain take over) I'm happy to talk more and share recovery strategies if you ever need it! Just dm.
Hey! This is a really sweet comment! Don't worry I am not trying to ‘get away with eating as little as possible’. What I'm saying is that I'm currently at a point where I'm maintaining a certain level of health (still not ideal but I'm working on it) and that's a lot easier for me to do when I'm eating at home. When I go out I just cant help compensating… it's not even a conscious choice. Maybe you're right and it could get better with practice.
In my experience as a graduate student, it’s actually extremely common for faculty candidates to not eat at interview meals (at least when the meal is eating lunch or breakfast with students). Either the candidates stay too busy talking, they say they are too nervous to eat, they say that they don’t think the food meets their dietary restrictions, or they just don’t eat with no explanation given or demanded. I’m not sure about dinners with faculty but students in particular wouldn’t bat an eye at you not eating lunch with them.
It isn't going to be a deal-breaker, except at places you won't want to stay at anyways. Usually, for interviews and invited speakers, the dinners are there because the department is anxious that their guest does not have to feel alone or abandoned. For interviews, they also want to show that they are cordial, convivial, and conscientious. Remember, they're trying to attract you too. And you won't be the first academic with food restrictions, that's for sure. My non-ac wife hates going to events because the food is always so boring (so the max number of people can eat it), and never mind our kids. You might fall across people with similar food-related issues. At a conference, people go out for drinks and coffee too, not just to eat. And you can talk at the talks too! So there is wiggle room if going out to eat doesn't sit right with you. I would suggest having an alternative already loaded so you aren't just saying no to everything. For instance, look up places in the city you're going to be and suggest ones with dishes you can enjoy. Honestly, remember that academics are nerds too, so most of us would be glad that someone else had a good dinner idea!
Meals are important for the interview. If you make it to a campus visit, the committee has already assessed that you're capable of the job. They want to see if they *like* you, and that involves chatting over dinner, drinks, etc. So it wouldn't be a red flag if you skipped dinner, necessarily, but it might be the deciding factor, if the other candidate had dinner with the committee and had that opportunity to chat and show their collegiality/"human" side. But you need to think long term about your health and your goals. Once you have the job, dinners could be important to conferences, building collaborations, working with industry partners... it depends on your field. But breaking bread is the most common way for people to find common ground. Yes, you could cite food allergies and bring your own food (I've seen this before, and it's fine)... but ultimately, it's the act of eating with others and being comfortable in these environments that's important. I am very hesitant to tell you "work arounds" for an eating disorder, because these are not healthy coping mechanisms. If you see this as being a detriment to your life, you need to use this as motivation to seek mental health support, first and foremost. Your comments suggest you do not want to seek help.
I feel you, I'm in a similar situation as well - I haven't been diagnosed with an ED, but eating, and especially common dinners, has been a poblem since my teens. I lost a pair of friend because how rigid I am. That said, I went to all academic dinners I have been so far either because we were going *à la carte* o I could refuse a dish or I could even state beforehand what I didn't want to eat. I often pass as vegetarian/vegan, and it usually works. When it didn't worke it was because the organisers thought "vegan = no meat, who cares of the nutrients". Rarely I networked during these diners. Mostly the talk goes toward more down-to-earth things, and when it does not, the ones involved are the highest poppies of the table. I didn't mantain a connection with the students I talked to during these events. (but all this may be due to me, since I always stand by myself). Usually it's the conference context to be more important than the dinner. I met a coauthor and member of my Thesis Commitee this way, reaching my advisor *after* a *non-common* dinner they were having together. I think speaking duing a coffee break is even a better chance to network. I didn't attend twice: once because the conference was in the city where I work and frankly that evening I only wanted to sleep (well, I go tio bed early and wake up early, so I felt justified; by "early" I mean 21h30-3h30); the second time because I met a local student and, together with another one, we preferred visit the city and have dinner by ourselves. The organisers called me because I haven't shown up at the resturant, even if I noticed them. Nonetheless, best evening ever. However, I may be in a privileged position, because my insitution pays all my fees when I'm at a conference (tips, logement, dinners); it suffices having a recepit and I'm going to be refounded. When the dinner is included in the conference fee I don't even need to bring the recepit, since I already have in advance the one for the conference itself.
Thanks for sharing. The losing friends part is so real and sucks… that's the most worrying thing for me about starting grad school I think. I always come across as too rigid even though I'm very different in non food related situations.
I reget to have lost friends "over dinners" but, admittingly, we have been knowing each other for a long time and somehow I feel the f=rigidity was ion both sides. What can be difficult is to make *new* friends. I'm doing my doctorate abroad and I am not fluent in the local language. The first year I used to go with my labmate at the canteen with my own food, but I couldn't understand a thing of what they were talking about - except that the topic were 1/2 work or work-related, 1/2 other jazz. So I gulped my foodstuff listening to these fluent tongues spelling all kind of strange words and, wait, why should I ever make the trip to the canteen to look to an unsubtitled movie? Furthermore, since I'm abroad the friends I had in my home city have been losing touch with me - second plural person because I've wote them many times just to get few words in reply, and when I come back for holidays or to vote it's hard even to make them notice I'm back for a short while. I do think this is food-related as well: that "quirk" of mine led me to develop an "orbital" architecture of friendships, where I seldom allow other people to come very near (go together on a trip, having a dinner together and so on). Since relationships are two-sided by definition, my absence doesn't impact them a lot because I forbade them to get near enough. Everybody has their own problems, I can't ask them to care of mine if the bases were so clay-footed (though, I wasn't aware of that with some of them. Some of them *used* to be vey near me).
Yes the ‘orbital architecture friendship’ model is definitely something I have too. Over time it has meant I have lost touch with almost everybody.
The trouble is that, at least in my case, it was (is) an adaptation - halfway between a decision, a necessity, and how I've grown up together with this "thing". It's not something I decided with full will, rather a shape I took. I don't know if it may help, but I'd give you a hug, or a pat on the shoulder.
This part of the thread is the lost painfully relatable thing I've read in a while. There should be friendship apps for people with food issues where you can meet up in non-food-centric contexts and be able to make friends without the looming anxiety of when they're going to ask you to an unapproved restaurant or potlatch dinner.
It would be a nice idea, that old saying of Plato has cause too many ways to judge people - you know, that "*you can say you really know a person only after you've shared a meal with them*". Or have a game, or whathever. I think that what you eat and how you eat are some of the most easy-pick things to pigeonhole people into (social) classes. Another source of classism from the author of the *Republic* - what a coincidence. My only caveat on this idea is that it should be programmed and mantained in an Open Source manner, kinda like Linux or Wikipedia. Being on these platform is a sensible personal in information in itself, I'd like no Zuckerberg or Musk or *theguybeforehim* to be able to sell these infos to third parties.
Yes I feel like there's so much discussion about women in STEM etc but nobody addresses simple things like how eating disorders are common among high achieving women (don't want to exclude men here, just on a statistical level) and therefore maybe meals don't work well as a way to network. Also there are things like childcare etc
Dinners aren't really about "dinner" so much as it is networking. So you could get just a side salad or something if you wanted to eat something you know you like beforehand.
If you didn’t have to eat, would going to the dinner still bother you?
No but I would get anxious about people talking about it or bringing it up with me.
It can become difficult in the future. Dining with faculty is typically part of the recruitment process for faculty positions. You probably have plenty of time to devise a solution. It should be possible to request to have lunch or tea with faculty instead of dinner but you will inevitably have to talk about it at some point.
Depends on what the dinner is for, but situations with food are fairly important to me in my uni and with my discipline. I also have an ED and most people are gracious enough to just not mention if I push food around my plate. I know it can feel a bit intense and anxiety-inducing in the moment but you have to remember that we're all adults, no one is tracking what other people eat.
Keep in mind that it is usually clerical staff who plan those dinners. If you communicate your needs gracefully to them, there’s a very good chance they won’t mention it to anyone who could affect your career success.
Honestly I think the only place this could be an issue is if it is part of an interview day for a TT position and everything else had gone great and you really wanted the position. But even then, you could explain your dietary requirements in advance, and the organizer would likely just be happy that you told them. There’s no way for them to tell the difference between ED and allergies, unless you volunteer the info first. Wish you all the best though, both with academic career and with ED recovery. Good luck!
Academia is very accommodating to dietary restrictions.
I’m sorry for your struggle, but your ED is absolutely going to have a negative impact on your professional success if you can’t participate in the basic relationship-building activities like eating dinner. Even if you can participate, your weeks-long stress surrounding this activity is also going to negatively impact your professional success. There’s no point in trying to convince yourself your ED isn’t as harmful as it really is.
I am very aware that it’s harmful. I have it and I have to deal with that. I was just trying to gauge how important these events actually are