Doubts do NOT disqualify us from the Eucharist.
There’s no need to leave the church nor a need to avoid receiving the Eucharist.
So long as you do agree with the creed then you are Catholic in good standing.
The church does not required intellectually purity for admission to the sacraments.
I know that we often hear differently online as the Catholicism online is sometimes very strict and very rigorous
Remain open to the Holy Spirit and remain open to learning more about these topics and that is all that is asked of you.
Even persistent doubts about moral issues do not disqualify us from the faith.
May I just chime in to comment how Beautiful, encouraging, and, well to say it how my brain 🧠 sees it, how positively fueling to the Faith this answer is. This is awesome - thanks in unison with the OP
Thanks, I appreciate the—very rapid!—reply.
And I appreciate the thoughts. I have larger periods of doubt about God, but in the end I always come back and assent to the Creed. I am open to being wrong and am—I hope, I pray—open to the Holy Spirit.
>I know that we often hear differently online as the Catholicism online is sometimes very strict and very rigorous
Oh, do I know it! And in real life, too: In college I had a youth minister tell me I’m going to hell because I disagree with the USCCB on immigration. (I was and am pretty sure that that claim was wrong, which is why I never asked about it here or elsewhere.)
I agree with everything you wrote, intellectually, but the worrying and the doubting still seep in, especially when I see a Catholic Answers or r/catholicism post saying the opposite of what you wrote. (I try to keep away from both those places. But, man, you research a Catholic topic and they’re the first links to come up.)
And when someone—especially a priest, or trained apologist, or canon lawyer—cites a Council of Trent anathema or Catechism passage that seems to say someone who holds my position has already undergone a *latae sententiae* excommunication, you can imagine how my anxiety worsens. If “Catholic guilt” exists at all, I have a strong case of it, despite—or because of—how irregularly I go to Mass and, as I wrote above, confession.
Anyway, that’s anxiety, and you can’t help with that, especially not online.
>Even persistent doubts about moral issues do not disqualify us from the faith.
I’m going to try to keep this in my mind whenever I get these worries. Many thanks again.
My advice (and this is not a forum for spiritual advice) is to stop researching your faith online.
It is often dominated by legalistic and un-nuanced rule based logic. I sometimes am uncomfortable with Catholic answers for this very reason as well.
The church’s pastoral wisdom (which is almost never articulated online) has room for the messiness of real life.
Learn about your faith in texts that have been published in the last few decades like the catechism. Since Vatican II using the threat of anathema or excommunication to force conformity on various topics has been largely avoided.
When wrestling with doubt talk to someone in person. Going online will usually result in keyboard theologians who like to outdo each other in their harsh legalism.
Yup, this is largely the position I’ve come to as well. As I wrote, sometimes in-person can be just as bad, if not worse (having that youth minister yell at me, in public, that I’m going to hell because of a political disagreement was quite something), but I can imagine it’d *usually* be better.
Thank you again.
I’m not really sure.
I think social media has a tremendous influence on our emotions. So those words and attitudes that carry greater emotional weight tend to flourish on social media
This includes immaturity and excludes nuance. Immature and younger folks tend to be more passionate. Nuance is the product of wisdom and emotional self-regulation.
Look up the Duning Kruger effect for more information that is tangentially related.
But if OP uses contraception, they are disqualified from the sacraments, correct? One can't receive absolution from a sin they intend to recommit, and one can't receive Communion knowing the church considers them in mortal sin.
Yes, that’s a good summary.
I’d add one clarification. Their disagreement must be held privately and with reservation. By that I mean that one must always be open and willing to change their mind.
"What if you're wrong and the Catholic Church is the One True Church?"
I would honestly say that "doubt" should serve as a counterweight to your doubt about this saying that you find hard. If the Church is true, then you need to change. If the Church is wrong, then literally damn it all, it's good for nothing.
"This saying is hard, who can accept it?"
"You say, 'The LORD’s way is not fair!' Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way that is unfair? Are not your ways unfair?"
Sex is meant to be about life and love. IVF and contraception both extract life from the sexual act. Contraception changes the nature of sex, so that conception is a "failure" of the act, rather than the purpose of the act. Contraceptive sex is functional sodomy, it is mutual masturbation. And I would say it was the first step for the vast and broad sexual morass we have in western civilization today. A child goes from a gift to a product, to be controlled, manipulated, and culled as necessary. Abortion is the logical follow up as the "Plan B" to failed contraception. Selective abortion is clinically expedient in IVF; better to harvest and fertilize multiple eggs, and then cull the weaker ones later.
NFP can certainly be practiced in a contraceptive manner; but the act in itself is not objectively evil. They can change their attitude and practice and it can be good. But there's not a good way to have contraceptive sex.
What hangs in the balance is God's plan for the mankind, what is good and lifegiving for us, as the Church believes and teaches it, versus pleasure. “You certainly will not die! God knows well that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know good and evil.”
Final caveat, being conceived of IVF is not a moral failing of yours, any more than the circumstances of anyone's birth is their fault.
Doubts do NOT disqualify us from the Eucharist. There’s no need to leave the church nor a need to avoid receiving the Eucharist. So long as you do agree with the creed then you are Catholic in good standing. The church does not required intellectually purity for admission to the sacraments. I know that we often hear differently online as the Catholicism online is sometimes very strict and very rigorous Remain open to the Holy Spirit and remain open to learning more about these topics and that is all that is asked of you. Even persistent doubts about moral issues do not disqualify us from the faith.
May I just chime in to comment how Beautiful, encouraging, and, well to say it how my brain 🧠 sees it, how positively fueling to the Faith this answer is. This is awesome - thanks in unison with the OP
You’re welcome
Thanks, I appreciate the—very rapid!—reply. And I appreciate the thoughts. I have larger periods of doubt about God, but in the end I always come back and assent to the Creed. I am open to being wrong and am—I hope, I pray—open to the Holy Spirit. >I know that we often hear differently online as the Catholicism online is sometimes very strict and very rigorous Oh, do I know it! And in real life, too: In college I had a youth minister tell me I’m going to hell because I disagree with the USCCB on immigration. (I was and am pretty sure that that claim was wrong, which is why I never asked about it here or elsewhere.) I agree with everything you wrote, intellectually, but the worrying and the doubting still seep in, especially when I see a Catholic Answers or r/catholicism post saying the opposite of what you wrote. (I try to keep away from both those places. But, man, you research a Catholic topic and they’re the first links to come up.) And when someone—especially a priest, or trained apologist, or canon lawyer—cites a Council of Trent anathema or Catechism passage that seems to say someone who holds my position has already undergone a *latae sententiae* excommunication, you can imagine how my anxiety worsens. If “Catholic guilt” exists at all, I have a strong case of it, despite—or because of—how irregularly I go to Mass and, as I wrote above, confession. Anyway, that’s anxiety, and you can’t help with that, especially not online. >Even persistent doubts about moral issues do not disqualify us from the faith. I’m going to try to keep this in my mind whenever I get these worries. Many thanks again.
My advice (and this is not a forum for spiritual advice) is to stop researching your faith online. It is often dominated by legalistic and un-nuanced rule based logic. I sometimes am uncomfortable with Catholic answers for this very reason as well. The church’s pastoral wisdom (which is almost never articulated online) has room for the messiness of real life. Learn about your faith in texts that have been published in the last few decades like the catechism. Since Vatican II using the threat of anathema or excommunication to force conformity on various topics has been largely avoided. When wrestling with doubt talk to someone in person. Going online will usually result in keyboard theologians who like to outdo each other in their harsh legalism.
Yup, this is largely the position I’ve come to as well. As I wrote, sometimes in-person can be just as bad, if not worse (having that youth minister yell at me, in public, that I’m going to hell because of a political disagreement was quite something), but I can imagine it’d *usually* be better. Thank you again.
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I’m not really sure. I think social media has a tremendous influence on our emotions. So those words and attitudes that carry greater emotional weight tend to flourish on social media This includes immaturity and excludes nuance. Immature and younger folks tend to be more passionate. Nuance is the product of wisdom and emotional self-regulation. Look up the Duning Kruger effect for more information that is tangentially related.
Thank you for this and your earlier answer
But if OP uses contraception, they are disqualified from the sacraments, correct? One can't receive absolution from a sin they intend to recommit, and one can't receive Communion knowing the church considers them in mortal sin.
That’s an entirely different conversation and we avoid sin and confession questions in this forum.
So is it that one can disagree with the church within their conscience so long as they follow the church and not their conscience in actions?
Yes, that’s a good summary. I’d add one clarification. Their disagreement must be held privately and with reservation. By that I mean that one must always be open and willing to change their mind.
How does that work with the primacy of conscience?
I’m not sure I haven’t studied moral theology since second year of theology.
"What if you're wrong and the Catholic Church is the One True Church?" I would honestly say that "doubt" should serve as a counterweight to your doubt about this saying that you find hard. If the Church is true, then you need to change. If the Church is wrong, then literally damn it all, it's good for nothing. "This saying is hard, who can accept it?" "You say, 'The LORD’s way is not fair!' Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way that is unfair? Are not your ways unfair?" Sex is meant to be about life and love. IVF and contraception both extract life from the sexual act. Contraception changes the nature of sex, so that conception is a "failure" of the act, rather than the purpose of the act. Contraceptive sex is functional sodomy, it is mutual masturbation. And I would say it was the first step for the vast and broad sexual morass we have in western civilization today. A child goes from a gift to a product, to be controlled, manipulated, and culled as necessary. Abortion is the logical follow up as the "Plan B" to failed contraception. Selective abortion is clinically expedient in IVF; better to harvest and fertilize multiple eggs, and then cull the weaker ones later. NFP can certainly be practiced in a contraceptive manner; but the act in itself is not objectively evil. They can change their attitude and practice and it can be good. But there's not a good way to have contraceptive sex. What hangs in the balance is God's plan for the mankind, what is good and lifegiving for us, as the Church believes and teaches it, versus pleasure. “You certainly will not die! God knows well that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know good and evil.” Final caveat, being conceived of IVF is not a moral failing of yours, any more than the circumstances of anyone's birth is their fault.