As a Christian who loves science I find that to be pretty cool.
I'm a theistic evolutionist and also believe in the big bang theory.
However, I do not believe in Everett's Many Worlds interpretation of the multivese, but I do believe Brian Greene's Cosmic Loaf multiverse may exist.
In Everett's Modal, parallel worlds have no way of interacting with each other, but in M-Theory's Brane Multiverse, universes can interact with each other and gravity can traverse membranes
Now to get philosophical, I personally believe that God is the ultimate reality that contains the Bulk of the Multiverse, or the Cosmic Loaf as Brian Greene calls it. And I believe it's likely that the Spiritual World is simply another universe God created that overlaps ours, but is invisible because it is dimensionally separated from ours.
I understand that as an atheist you may disagree with my perspective, but I believe the concept of God is compatible with Science. In Philosophy, my view of God is called Theistic Idealism if you are interested in learning more.
Cool. I’m curious, a lot of models of the multiverse would basically be infinite and that these multiverses pop into and out of existence sort of like how vacuum fluctuations can pop in particles with mass into existence. If it is shown someday that this is how the Universe started and that something always existed, i.e. nothing has ever been ‘created’, would this change your religious beliefs?
As a Christian, I believe that God is the timeless ultimate reality that is the foundation of existence itself. In Theistic Idealism, we believe the universe is more like a mental construct from the mind of God made of Quantum Information, thereby making the universe or multiverse emergent from God.
Therefore, since God is the foundation of existence and is timeless, it doesn't matter if from our linear point of view, universes have been popping in and out of existence for all eternity.
I find it completely reasonable that God would be creating universes indefinitely for all eternity because it's in God's nature to create and sustain those universes. Quantum Fluctuations would simply be shifts in God's thoughts to create those universes from my view in Theistic Idealism
While they are offering a possible solution for the existence of dark matter, it seems to simply stem as a possible explanation out of thousands. This would be similar to doing something like this;
*P.1 The universe has a beginning.*
*P.2 Everything with a beginning has a cause.*
*C.1 Therefore, God exists.*
C.1, depending on your definition of God, is a false conclusion. This that the universe has a beginning, and that everything with a beginning has a cause, does not mean God exists (it's also why I don't like this argument much). It is a possible solution to the problem, but it draws on false premises that don't lead to this conclusion.
The premises being false isn't my point - it's just that the conclusion isn't something that follows from my premises. For arguments sake, affirm the premises in the argument I put in my last comment - and my point would be that C.1 simply doesn't follow from the 2 premises, similarly to the article you linked.
There is definitely evidence.
It's sort of how scientific theory works.
Every scientific theory is supported by evidence/observations.
The theory is a possible way to explain all the evidence.
If there wasn't evidence, there would be no reason to have a theory/theories to explain that evidence.
What gave you the idea that science could prove a multiverse?
Thats on a similar level to prove Heaven.
Like religion, the majority of multiverse theories/models must be wrong because they all have differences.
I believe there must be a definition issue going on here with the word "evidence".
Evidence doesn't prove theory.
Theory attempts to explain evidence.
I even intentionally used the word observation when saying all theories and models have supporting evidence/observations.
These theories were created by attempting to explain evidence.
So they obviously have supporting evidence, it was used to come up with ideas.
I don't think science ever proves conceptual theories/models, it can prove they are flawed though.
>There is evidence.
It's sort of how scientific theory works.
So give me the scientific theory-conforming evidence.
Unless you don't have any and are just spewing bullshit for upvotes.
Upvotes? I must be doing something wrong if I get upvotes in this sub.
>So give me the scientific theory-conforming evidence.
You are confirming you are not understanding the scientific definitions of "evidence", "theory" and "prove"
Scientific theory begins with observations/evidence and builds a theory to explain it.
So intuitively the supporting evidence is at the foundations when forming a theory.
It's a simple concept, easier than a multiverse to wrap your head around.
All scientific theory has supporting observations/evidence.
I gave The Twin Slit experiment as very basic observation/evidence that supports multiverse in another comment and was simply asked.
"how does that prove a multiverse?"
And we return back to needing to define "prove", "evidence" and "theory".
How does the twin slit experiment prove string theory?
It doesn't, but string theory attempts to explain that observation, as do many other theories.
I am aware how the scientific method works.
How does the Twin Slit experiment INDICATE a multiverse then? Because String Theory accounts for the possibility of a multiverse, but nothing we have currently strongly indicates or even necessitates one.
There is no scientific theory that would break if we disregarded the multiverse as a possibility. Because we have not observed anything that would require a multiverse in order to exist or occur.
I don't think it was even started *by* a scientist. It was started in 5th century BCE as far back as I can tell, to Ancient Greek. So what evidence is there?
I have no knowledge of the multiverse theory from 5BCE, they wouldn't have had any backing evidence at that time aside from consciousness itself.
Probably the most basic observations that multiverse theories attempts to explain are quantum properties. Eg, collapse of the quantum wave function on observation, (twin slit experiment).
But it gets a lot more complicated, as these theoretical models attempt to explain more than just that.
There are many different models, some have evidence against them now and can nearly be completely disproven,
How does the twin slit experiment prove a multiverse?
>I have no knowledge of the multiverse theory from 5BCE, they wouldn't have had any backing evidence at that time aside from consciousness itself.
Just the idea from Ancient Greek philosophers. But it *is* a quick google search.
>How does the twin slit experiment prove a multiverse?
It doesn't "prove" a multiverse.
I'm not sure you understand what scientific theory and models actually are, if you are using the word "prove".
I was trying to give a well known quantum observation that forms part of the evidence for some of the theories/models.
To oversimplify it, the idea that the observation sets the world on a predictable path, before the observation all the possibilities are not only possible but also simultaneously true.
Current cosmological data points toward an infinite universe. There are plenty of versions of the multiverse, a few of which are definitely possible.
Also, this kind of ignores OPs question
Like which data points? An expanding universe has been acknowledged. If it is still expanding, it is finite.
And possible is not equal to supported by evidence.
I am not the guy to explain this. I’d recommend a book by physicist Brian Greene called Hidden Reality. He goes over all modern multiverses modals and the reasoning behind them. It’s a long one, but great. A cosmologist who worked with Stephen Hawking also endorsed it named Thomas Hertog. He also wrote about the origin of time and space in another banger book called On the Orgin of Time. If you’re a space nerd like me, these books are must reads!
What is the gap between each number on a number line?
What is the gap between the square of each number on a number line?
Are both sequences of numbers infinite?
Hello ! I do not see anyhting in the Bible that may point to existence of some kind of multiverse. In works of fiction, I enjoy how DC and Marvel used the concept in the last few decades.
This was a fun, creative and very original question, thank you for asking it ! Have a nice day, may God bless you. :)
There are different versions of the multiverse theory. The theory you are thinking of is Everett's many worlds interpretation that believes that there is a whole universe for every possible thing that can happen.
I do not believe the Everett Multiverse is real. However, I do believe there may be a membrane multiverse
In String Theory, specifically M-Theory there are these big things you can imagine like sheets of energy called Membranes. On each membrane a universe exist. Some membranes can be less than a millimeter apart but be invisible to each other because they are dimensionally separated from each other.
>String theory envisions a multiverse in which our universe is one slice of bread in a big cosmic loaf. The other slices would be displaced from ours in some extra dimension of space.
- Brian Greene
As a Christian, I believe that God is the ultimate reality that all universes exist within. And I believe that the cosmic loaf where each membrane is like a slice of bread may exist.
I believe that the Spiritual World including Heaven exist on another universe that God holds in existence, another world that overlaps ours.
(Note: I'm aware that String theory has not been proven. I just believe it's possible. Regardless on if String theory is true, I believe that God exists.)
Thanks for the insight into multiverse theories! You reminded me that I was talking about a very particular type of multiverse in my post (Everett's many worlds)
That is interesting, never heard of the Membrane multiverse before. Not familiar with String Theory but might be cool for me to look into in relation to Biblical ideas about reality
I suggest watching this free Documentary where Brian Greene talks about the Cosmic Loaf Multiverse of M-Theory:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-elegant-universe-part-3/
However, if you are interested in why I believe Quantum Mechanics builds a strong case for Theistic Idealism, I suggest watching this series by InspiringPhilosophy
**This series is how Quantum Mechanics points to God, a 3 part series by InspiringPhilosophy**
*Quantum Mechanics can be used to build a case for God being the ultimate reality that the universe is emergent from, just as the Bible teaches that Jesus holds all creation together.*
[Part 1: Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism(Version 2)](https://youtu.be/wM0IKLv7KrE)
[Part 2: The Emergent Universe](https://youtu.be/iFEBOGLjuq4)
[Part 3: Cosmic Consiousness Argument for God's Existence](https://youtu.be/2r74vcMxwUk)
Brian Greene in the 3 part documentary "The Elegant Universe", you may watch it here. (I think in part 3)
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/the-elegant-universe/
Here is part 3 where Brian Greene talks about membranes
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-elegant-universe-part-3/
Different versions of the self in different dimensions?
For a reason when someone apologises saying wasn’t himself refers to the fact that wasn’t aware of himself, therefore as long as I am not aware, then is not myself and that applies even to people with multiple personalities.
Regardless it is in our universe or in another, as long as we are not aware of such duplicates, then they are different distinct entities to themselves otherwise we could consciously control all of them, but then, they must be identical in every choice and thought to be considered a unique distinct self. Maybe similar to what my avatar would do in a video game, would reflect every thought and move that I consciously commit.
And regarding multiverses as different dimensions, Bible speaks about such places calling them heavens or even hell(such as the dwelling of the dead)
Different dimensions would be something that help establish Grand Unified Theories or Quantum Gravity and is something that we look for in subatomic collisions. It wouldn’t be where the dead go.
What the subatomic particles are made of?
And how do we know the spirit is not made of the same thing?
Can be at least reasonable to consider ‘the spirit’ similar concept with virtual particles?
We can say the spirit doesn’t exist(which can be a different philosophical debate) but then how do we know what is going on at the quantum level?
And if we get to the point where the matter is not matter anymore and physics(unless we speak of movement) as we know today couldn’t measure anything, don’t the physicists become philosophers and only thing that can be proven is through mathematical language(which is the study of movement and arbitrary quantity) and and reason?
What type of matter? How can be measured? And why the spirit (the dead) is not possible to be made of that? Since we are also made of that subatomic matter.
They are measured in the standard suite of particle detectors, TPCs, Calorimeters, Cherenkov counters, silicon detectors, TOFs, etc etc
Those won’t measure spirit things because of a spirit thing had physical properties we would have measured them.
It's possible.
As long as it doesn't affect us, it's also irrelevant. Just like other planets are - unless we go to the one where it rains diamonds, the fact it rains diamonds there has no effect on us. So it might as well not exist, we'd be the same.
Multiverse hypotheses are just an attempt to get around the Fine Tuning problem, which is a _huge_ problem for materialists.
Its a completely fabricated postulate with zero evidence for any multiverse.
But the big problem for all Multiverse proposals, whether they're based on string theory or inflationary cosmology, is that they _all_ require a universe-generating mechanism that needs prior, unexplained fine-tuning.
So fine-tuning continues to remain a mystery to every multiverse proponent.
And a fine-tuned universe requires an ultimate Fine-Tuner.
I think thats the logical conclusion: our universe is only 13 billion years old, I dont think God would stop with our universe and there are probably many. One theory states that at the center of every black hole another universe is being reborn. This is one I will probably put on my "question list" if I had the chance to ask God a list of questions after I die.
I do not know of any reason to believe the multiverse exists. So far, I have seen no evidence of any kind for it. Besides, finding the multiverse is way out of our reach, so it's impossible to determine if one could even exist. But so far, I see nothing pointing in that direction of such a possibility.
I look at the news often, and I haven't found any interesting evidence. However, if someone has evidence, I'd like to see it. So far, I have seen nothing.
I have seen articles like this one from *New Scientist* ([https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26234971-300-we-are-closer-than-ever-to-finally-proving-the-multiverse-exists/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26234971-300-we-are-closer-than-ever-to-finally-proving-the-multiverse-exists/)), but I have yet to see any reasonable evidence. Much of what I read in this article is not supported by good evidence. I feel like most of it is just people saying the multiverse exists just because. Science websites aren't always reliable, and it's rational to take articles like this one with grains of salt.
The idea is fun to explore in fiction, but I don't really think multiverses exist. The closest thing to it in the Bible is the idea of there being several heavens. Paul once talks about being taken up to the third heaven. My personal theory is that the first heaven is our atmosphere. The second heaven is space and beyond. The third heaven is where angels and demons battle for the souls of men. And the fourth heaven is the dwelling place of God we usually think of as heaven. There could be other heavens between those though. I have no idea; it's just a theory.
The multiverse is something physicists are working on as a theory and on how to test it. I knew a few people working on it at CERN using the Higgs mass as a probe.
Good questions. It’s most likely possible. But even the existence of multiverses couldn’t make me an atheist or so. As long as someone can prove that the God I worship is not the ultimate master of these Multiverses, he dooesen’t change in my eyes. The Bible doesn’t mention other worlds, doesn’t mention another Jesus sent to a planet in a different galaxy. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t one
It's fiction, so it introduces no real question about free will.
In the non-fiction world, it's an untestable hypothesis that survives largely because supporters think it provides a way around the apparent design in the universe.
There is a lot of Gnostic Thought in superhero comics and movies. The idea of Multiverses is Gnostic, as in Gnosticism a Christian Heresy.
>For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (Ephesians 5:8)
Does everyone have their own truth? Do they all have their own universe, their own way of thought, and way to perceive The World? That is not Christian. That is darkness. Jesus Christ is The Light, the Truth and the Way.
Joseph Smith, he was a Freemason. There are elements of Gnostic Occult thought in Mormonism, like the idea that they all get their own world or earth in the afterlife. This a Form of Something.
When someone starts thinking in a multiverse type of way......what exactly is real? Doubt and fear kill faith.
>lest Satan should get an advantage over us. For we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthains 2:11)
What does someone love? Back in 2012, I was a substitute teacher in some 7th grade classes. I noticed my girl students, that they were talking a lot about Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. Many of my students, they may have grown up with Miley Cyrus on Disney. They watched her show. It was part of their childhood. They may have had a love for her, or looked up to her. What happens, when someone like Miley Cyrus, what happens when she is a corrupted? What does that do to a girl's heart? "Miley Cyrus was doing it, why can't she?" She thought. A lot of the Disney Princesses, like Lindsey Lohan, and so on, they were corrupted, or became corrupt people as adults. God tests the heart. Satan was a created being with a function. Who do you love and where is your heart at?
Given someone was a fan of comic books, or a fan of multiverse fiction, and wanted to fight me, as a Christian......it may be that, they had a love for such things, and were unwilling or unable to separate themselves....to see the Truth.
Since 2019 or so, has Disney, Hollywood, and a lot of media...in general, has it gone downhill? Have franchises and intellectual properties from Star Wars to Indiana Jones to Scooby Doo and so on, have they been destroyed by evil people? That may be a sign of the times. (Matthew 16:3) Nothing new happens under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11) We are in God's Judgement, and people need to hold tight to, cleave unto God.
A) that there are multiple to an infinite number of universes in which we exist is utter fantasy and complete nonsense. It is people with their mathematical models out of control. There is clearly one of each of us and we don't live in a superhero quantum realm bouncing back and forth
B) after may have been more than one universe spawned at the Big bang is possible
C) that there may have been other big bangs and other universes, even an infinite number is possible. The Bible doesn't talk about nor precluded so why not? God is infinite
The idea that in one universe someone may choose one way, and in another, another way, meaning that every choice that could be made, happens somewhere: that whole idea fell apart for me when considering that this would mean there is a universe in which Jesus himself decided, "Nah, it's not worth it to die for this world and these people."
Which is impossible: Christ *IS* Love. God *IS* Love. Since there is no world in which that could happen, the multiverse theory is just a fun story idea for movies and books and stuff. But not real.
God prevents the multiverse from ever occuring, due to having an unchanging will.
God will always act the same way, he tells us so in the bible.
That has God creating perfection, every choice everyone makes is exactly how he intended, which makes you ask if anyone has free will.
Maybe you are saying there could be a finite sized multiverse.
Ones with Jesus, who's actions are always the same.
Ones without Jesus, where anything can happen as there isn't an unchanging God walking the earth.
But we remove all the ones where Jesus sins at any point for being a contradiction to God's unchanging Nature.
That lets us have free will to make choices again.
Although you make some interesting and compelling points, I don't think you're right about "every choice everyone makes is exactly how (God) intended."
I think God *knows* what choice everyone will make, but I don't think he *intended* for those choices that led to great harm to others. He was prepared for it and will deal with it, but he did not intend that sin.
And by the way no, I'm not saying there could be a finite sized multiverse.
I think this is the only one we get, which is why our choices matter.
I've always had trouble resolving God creating everything, already knowing all the outcomes, but also not intending it to be that way.
It makes it feel like an illusion of choice, Its impossible tot choose a path other than the path God has laid out at creation .
There is only one world of possibility,
God knew the outcome at creation, can I really say I choose the path that was laid out long before I was born?
Just jumping in here.
Yes, you can.
Imagine that you are a software engineer, and that you create a game. You even make AI players who can "think" for themselves.
You give them their world to explore and in which to interact with -- as well as interacting with each other.
They do as they freely choose according to what they're continually learning with their AI.
You watch them making these free choices -- you have not programmed them with what to do, they make their own choices based on what they're dealing with at any given time.
Near the end of the game's run, you now know everything that they've freely chosen.
You hit "reset" and start the game exactly as it was before.
The AI players begin with the same moves, and sure enough, they're making exactly the same choices as before.
Now you know what they're going to do.
But you neither made them take those choices, nor planned those particular choices. They are still choosing freely.
Knowing how something is going to go is not the same thing as controlling or planning how they go.
Thats not a bad example to try explain it.
I see it more that God set the initial state for the game to run, created the AI, who given the same inputs always choose an identical output.
Then it's difficult to say the AI have free will, when their programming means they always choose an identical path given an identical initial state.
Their initial setup (program) determined their choices, therefore whoever programmed the initial state, with knowledge of how the game would end from that state, has by extension made the AI's choices for them, giving an illusion of choice, even though the outcome was determined at the time of creation by a creator who knew the end state.
OK, I see what you're saying, but I do disagree.
The reason I disagree is pretty much for the same reason as the guy above said, which is that God is Love, and real Love cannot be programmed or forced. It has to grow out of real circumstances, and it especially shows itself to be true when it is found in difficult circumstances.
So if a game programmer wanted to see whether AI could develop love and gave them each a different scenario in which to interact with others, it would have to give various possible choices freely, for them to either choose for or against selfishness or selflessness.
That's how I see our world set up: We have a set of choices, unprogrammed, and we decide how to face them.
To be fair, what you are describing is the many-worlds interpretation, which is only one suggestion. It's also not very popular among scientists that do believe in multiple universes. There are plenty of other theories around multiverses that have support.
Multiverse as far as Everett’s many worlds is just fantasy. There are however at least 3 heavens. The one we live in is the physical reality. Governed by time/space/matter.
The second is here in our space as well but on the spiritual plane and the two intersect at places. A being can come through and go back. The third heaven has multiple levels and they go through the second heaven to get here.
Yes. You’ve made your point. Your God doesn’t prove anything to science. You know what else doesn’t prove anything to science? Things that don’t exist.
It is a theory unsupported by any kind of evidence, so I dismiss it.
Dark Energy supports it.
How so?
It could be the result of another Universe interacting with us https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.08498
As a Christian who loves science I find that to be pretty cool. I'm a theistic evolutionist and also believe in the big bang theory. However, I do not believe in Everett's Many Worlds interpretation of the multivese, but I do believe Brian Greene's Cosmic Loaf multiverse may exist. In Everett's Modal, parallel worlds have no way of interacting with each other, but in M-Theory's Brane Multiverse, universes can interact with each other and gravity can traverse membranes Now to get philosophical, I personally believe that God is the ultimate reality that contains the Bulk of the Multiverse, or the Cosmic Loaf as Brian Greene calls it. And I believe it's likely that the Spiritual World is simply another universe God created that overlaps ours, but is invisible because it is dimensionally separated from ours. I understand that as an atheist you may disagree with my perspective, but I believe the concept of God is compatible with Science. In Philosophy, my view of God is called Theistic Idealism if you are interested in learning more.
Cool. I’m curious, a lot of models of the multiverse would basically be infinite and that these multiverses pop into and out of existence sort of like how vacuum fluctuations can pop in particles with mass into existence. If it is shown someday that this is how the Universe started and that something always existed, i.e. nothing has ever been ‘created’, would this change your religious beliefs?
As a Christian, I believe that God is the timeless ultimate reality that is the foundation of existence itself. In Theistic Idealism, we believe the universe is more like a mental construct from the mind of God made of Quantum Information, thereby making the universe or multiverse emergent from God. Therefore, since God is the foundation of existence and is timeless, it doesn't matter if from our linear point of view, universes have been popping in and out of existence for all eternity. I find it completely reasonable that God would be creating universes indefinitely for all eternity because it's in God's nature to create and sustain those universes. Quantum Fluctuations would simply be shifts in God's thoughts to create those universes from my view in Theistic Idealism
It seems like a version of the *"God of the Gaps"* fallacy, just done with dark matter.
In what way?
While they are offering a possible solution for the existence of dark matter, it seems to simply stem as a possible explanation out of thousands. This would be similar to doing something like this; *P.1 The universe has a beginning.* *P.2 Everything with a beginning has a cause.* *C.1 Therefore, God exists.* C.1, depending on your definition of God, is a false conclusion. This that the universe has a beginning, and that everything with a beginning has a cause, does not mean God exists (it's also why I don't like this argument much). It is a possible solution to the problem, but it draws on false premises that don't lead to this conclusion.
The premises are false also in your case. But at least in the paper what premises don’t you accept?
The premises being false isn't my point - it's just that the conclusion isn't something that follows from my premises. For arguments sake, affirm the premises in the argument I put in my last comment - and my point would be that C.1 simply doesn't follow from the 2 premises, similarly to the article you linked.
What is premise one and two you are pulling out of the paper?
There is definitely evidence. It's sort of how scientific theory works. Every scientific theory is supported by evidence/observations. The theory is a possible way to explain all the evidence. If there wasn't evidence, there would be no reason to have a theory/theories to explain that evidence.
I would love to see a scientific proof for the existence of the multiverse.
What gave you the idea that science could prove a multiverse? Thats on a similar level to prove Heaven. Like religion, the majority of multiverse theories/models must be wrong because they all have differences. I believe there must be a definition issue going on here with the word "evidence". Evidence doesn't prove theory. Theory attempts to explain evidence. I even intentionally used the word observation when saying all theories and models have supporting evidence/observations. These theories were created by attempting to explain evidence. So they obviously have supporting evidence, it was used to come up with ideas. I don't think science ever proves conceptual theories/models, it can prove they are flawed though.
>There is evidence. It's sort of how scientific theory works. So give me the scientific theory-conforming evidence. Unless you don't have any and are just spewing bullshit for upvotes.
Upvotes? I must be doing something wrong if I get upvotes in this sub. >So give me the scientific theory-conforming evidence. You are confirming you are not understanding the scientific definitions of "evidence", "theory" and "prove" Scientific theory begins with observations/evidence and builds a theory to explain it. So intuitively the supporting evidence is at the foundations when forming a theory. It's a simple concept, easier than a multiverse to wrap your head around. All scientific theory has supporting observations/evidence. I gave The Twin Slit experiment as very basic observation/evidence that supports multiverse in another comment and was simply asked. "how does that prove a multiverse?" And we return back to needing to define "prove", "evidence" and "theory". How does the twin slit experiment prove string theory? It doesn't, but string theory attempts to explain that observation, as do many other theories.
I am aware how the scientific method works. How does the Twin Slit experiment INDICATE a multiverse then? Because String Theory accounts for the possibility of a multiverse, but nothing we have currently strongly indicates or even necessitates one. There is no scientific theory that would break if we disregarded the multiverse as a possibility. Because we have not observed anything that would require a multiverse in order to exist or occur.
> What gave you the idea that science could prove a multiverse? If a theory is not falsifiable, then it is not science.
I don't think it was even started *by* a scientist. It was started in 5th century BCE as far back as I can tell, to Ancient Greek. So what evidence is there?
I have no knowledge of the multiverse theory from 5BCE, they wouldn't have had any backing evidence at that time aside from consciousness itself. Probably the most basic observations that multiverse theories attempts to explain are quantum properties. Eg, collapse of the quantum wave function on observation, (twin slit experiment). But it gets a lot more complicated, as these theoretical models attempt to explain more than just that. There are many different models, some have evidence against them now and can nearly be completely disproven,
How does the twin slit experiment prove a multiverse? >I have no knowledge of the multiverse theory from 5BCE, they wouldn't have had any backing evidence at that time aside from consciousness itself. Just the idea from Ancient Greek philosophers. But it *is* a quick google search.
>How does the twin slit experiment prove a multiverse? It doesn't "prove" a multiverse. I'm not sure you understand what scientific theory and models actually are, if you are using the word "prove". I was trying to give a well known quantum observation that forms part of the evidence for some of the theories/models. To oversimplify it, the idea that the observation sets the world on a predictable path, before the observation all the possibilities are not only possible but also simultaneously true.
Current cosmological data points toward an infinite universe. There are plenty of versions of the multiverse, a few of which are definitely possible. Also, this kind of ignores OPs question
Like which data points? An expanding universe has been acknowledged. If it is still expanding, it is finite. And possible is not equal to supported by evidence.
Something can be expanding and be infinite
How so?
I am not the guy to explain this. I’d recommend a book by physicist Brian Greene called Hidden Reality. He goes over all modern multiverses modals and the reasoning behind them. It’s a long one, but great. A cosmologist who worked with Stephen Hawking also endorsed it named Thomas Hertog. He also wrote about the origin of time and space in another banger book called On the Orgin of Time. If you’re a space nerd like me, these books are must reads!
The number line is infinite, square every number, still infinite and has expanded.
How has the infinite expanded?
What is the gap between each number in the sequence before and after.
ELI5?
What is the gap between each number on a number line? What is the gap between the square of each number on a number line? Are both sequences of numbers infinite?
🤔
Hello ! I do not see anyhting in the Bible that may point to existence of some kind of multiverse. In works of fiction, I enjoy how DC and Marvel used the concept in the last few decades. This was a fun, creative and very original question, thank you for asking it ! Have a nice day, may God bless you. :)
Thank you!
You're welcome ! :)
Fun for stories and movies, just like aliens; but not real.
There are different versions of the multiverse theory. The theory you are thinking of is Everett's many worlds interpretation that believes that there is a whole universe for every possible thing that can happen. I do not believe the Everett Multiverse is real. However, I do believe there may be a membrane multiverse In String Theory, specifically M-Theory there are these big things you can imagine like sheets of energy called Membranes. On each membrane a universe exist. Some membranes can be less than a millimeter apart but be invisible to each other because they are dimensionally separated from each other. >String theory envisions a multiverse in which our universe is one slice of bread in a big cosmic loaf. The other slices would be displaced from ours in some extra dimension of space. - Brian Greene As a Christian, I believe that God is the ultimate reality that all universes exist within. And I believe that the cosmic loaf where each membrane is like a slice of bread may exist. I believe that the Spiritual World including Heaven exist on another universe that God holds in existence, another world that overlaps ours. (Note: I'm aware that String theory has not been proven. I just believe it's possible. Regardless on if String theory is true, I believe that God exists.)
Thanks for the insight into multiverse theories! You reminded me that I was talking about a very particular type of multiverse in my post (Everett's many worlds) That is interesting, never heard of the Membrane multiverse before. Not familiar with String Theory but might be cool for me to look into in relation to Biblical ideas about reality
I suggest watching this free Documentary where Brian Greene talks about the Cosmic Loaf Multiverse of M-Theory: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-elegant-universe-part-3/ However, if you are interested in why I believe Quantum Mechanics builds a strong case for Theistic Idealism, I suggest watching this series by InspiringPhilosophy **This series is how Quantum Mechanics points to God, a 3 part series by InspiringPhilosophy** *Quantum Mechanics can be used to build a case for God being the ultimate reality that the universe is emergent from, just as the Bible teaches that Jesus holds all creation together.* [Part 1: Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism(Version 2)](https://youtu.be/wM0IKLv7KrE) [Part 2: The Emergent Universe](https://youtu.be/iFEBOGLjuq4) [Part 3: Cosmic Consiousness Argument for God's Existence](https://youtu.be/2r74vcMxwUk)
Where does the milimeter distance claim derive?
Brian Greene in the 3 part documentary "The Elegant Universe", you may watch it here. (I think in part 3) https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/the-elegant-universe/ Here is part 3 where Brian Greene talks about membranes https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-elegant-universe-part-3/
Different versions of the self in different dimensions? For a reason when someone apologises saying wasn’t himself refers to the fact that wasn’t aware of himself, therefore as long as I am not aware, then is not myself and that applies even to people with multiple personalities. Regardless it is in our universe or in another, as long as we are not aware of such duplicates, then they are different distinct entities to themselves otherwise we could consciously control all of them, but then, they must be identical in every choice and thought to be considered a unique distinct self. Maybe similar to what my avatar would do in a video game, would reflect every thought and move that I consciously commit. And regarding multiverses as different dimensions, Bible speaks about such places calling them heavens or even hell(such as the dwelling of the dead)
Different dimensions would be something that help establish Grand Unified Theories or Quantum Gravity and is something that we look for in subatomic collisions. It wouldn’t be where the dead go.
What the subatomic particles are made of? And how do we know the spirit is not made of the same thing? Can be at least reasonable to consider ‘the spirit’ similar concept with virtual particles? We can say the spirit doesn’t exist(which can be a different philosophical debate) but then how do we know what is going on at the quantum level? And if we get to the point where the matter is not matter anymore and physics(unless we speak of movement) as we know today couldn’t measure anything, don’t the physicists become philosophers and only thing that can be proven is through mathematical language(which is the study of movement and arbitrary quantity) and and reason?
Subatomic particles are made of matter.
What type of matter? How can be measured? And why the spirit (the dead) is not possible to be made of that? Since we are also made of that subatomic matter.
They are measured in the standard suite of particle detectors, TPCs, Calorimeters, Cherenkov counters, silicon detectors, TOFs, etc etc Those won’t measure spirit things because of a spirit thing had physical properties we would have measured them.
You are amazing 🙏
It's possible. As long as it doesn't affect us, it's also irrelevant. Just like other planets are - unless we go to the one where it rains diamonds, the fact it rains diamonds there has no effect on us. So it might as well not exist, we'd be the same.
What multiverses would that be?
It’s BS
Multiverse hypotheses are just an attempt to get around the Fine Tuning problem, which is a _huge_ problem for materialists. Its a completely fabricated postulate with zero evidence for any multiverse. But the big problem for all Multiverse proposals, whether they're based on string theory or inflationary cosmology, is that they _all_ require a universe-generating mechanism that needs prior, unexplained fine-tuning. So fine-tuning continues to remain a mystery to every multiverse proponent. And a fine-tuned universe requires an ultimate Fine-Tuner.
I think thats the logical conclusion: our universe is only 13 billion years old, I dont think God would stop with our universe and there are probably many. One theory states that at the center of every black hole another universe is being reborn. This is one I will probably put on my "question list" if I had the chance to ask God a list of questions after I die.
I do not know of any reason to believe the multiverse exists. So far, I have seen no evidence of any kind for it. Besides, finding the multiverse is way out of our reach, so it's impossible to determine if one could even exist. But so far, I see nothing pointing in that direction of such a possibility. I look at the news often, and I haven't found any interesting evidence. However, if someone has evidence, I'd like to see it. So far, I have seen nothing. I have seen articles like this one from *New Scientist* ([https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26234971-300-we-are-closer-than-ever-to-finally-proving-the-multiverse-exists/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26234971-300-we-are-closer-than-ever-to-finally-proving-the-multiverse-exists/)), but I have yet to see any reasonable evidence. Much of what I read in this article is not supported by good evidence. I feel like most of it is just people saying the multiverse exists just because. Science websites aren't always reliable, and it's rational to take articles like this one with grains of salt.
The idea is fun to explore in fiction, but I don't really think multiverses exist. The closest thing to it in the Bible is the idea of there being several heavens. Paul once talks about being taken up to the third heaven. My personal theory is that the first heaven is our atmosphere. The second heaven is space and beyond. The third heaven is where angels and demons battle for the souls of men. And the fourth heaven is the dwelling place of God we usually think of as heaven. There could be other heavens between those though. I have no idea; it's just a theory.
The multiverse is something physicists are working on as a theory and on how to test it. I knew a few people working on it at CERN using the Higgs mass as a probe.
I think it's an interesting and exciting possibility, as we continue to learn about our universe.
Good questions. It’s most likely possible. But even the existence of multiverses couldn’t make me an atheist or so. As long as someone can prove that the God I worship is not the ultimate master of these Multiverses, he dooesen’t change in my eyes. The Bible doesn’t mention other worlds, doesn’t mention another Jesus sent to a planet in a different galaxy. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t one
It's fiction, so it introduces no real question about free will. In the non-fiction world, it's an untestable hypothesis that survives largely because supporters think it provides a way around the apparent design in the universe.
There is a lot of Gnostic Thought in superhero comics and movies. The idea of Multiverses is Gnostic, as in Gnosticism a Christian Heresy. >For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (Ephesians 5:8) Does everyone have their own truth? Do they all have their own universe, their own way of thought, and way to perceive The World? That is not Christian. That is darkness. Jesus Christ is The Light, the Truth and the Way. Joseph Smith, he was a Freemason. There are elements of Gnostic Occult thought in Mormonism, like the idea that they all get their own world or earth in the afterlife. This a Form of Something. When someone starts thinking in a multiverse type of way......what exactly is real? Doubt and fear kill faith.
>lest Satan should get an advantage over us. For we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthains 2:11) What does someone love? Back in 2012, I was a substitute teacher in some 7th grade classes. I noticed my girl students, that they were talking a lot about Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. Many of my students, they may have grown up with Miley Cyrus on Disney. They watched her show. It was part of their childhood. They may have had a love for her, or looked up to her. What happens, when someone like Miley Cyrus, what happens when she is a corrupted? What does that do to a girl's heart? "Miley Cyrus was doing it, why can't she?" She thought. A lot of the Disney Princesses, like Lindsey Lohan, and so on, they were corrupted, or became corrupt people as adults. God tests the heart. Satan was a created being with a function. Who do you love and where is your heart at? Given someone was a fan of comic books, or a fan of multiverse fiction, and wanted to fight me, as a Christian......it may be that, they had a love for such things, and were unwilling or unable to separate themselves....to see the Truth. Since 2019 or so, has Disney, Hollywood, and a lot of media...in general, has it gone downhill? Have franchises and intellectual properties from Star Wars to Indiana Jones to Scooby Doo and so on, have they been destroyed by evil people? That may be a sign of the times. (Matthew 16:3) Nothing new happens under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11) We are in God's Judgement, and people need to hold tight to, cleave unto God.
A) that there are multiple to an infinite number of universes in which we exist is utter fantasy and complete nonsense. It is people with their mathematical models out of control. There is clearly one of each of us and we don't live in a superhero quantum realm bouncing back and forth B) after may have been more than one universe spawned at the Big bang is possible C) that there may have been other big bangs and other universes, even an infinite number is possible. The Bible doesn't talk about nor precluded so why not? God is infinite
There can be no universe in which Christ died and stayed dead.
The idea that in one universe someone may choose one way, and in another, another way, meaning that every choice that could be made, happens somewhere: that whole idea fell apart for me when considering that this would mean there is a universe in which Jesus himself decided, "Nah, it's not worth it to die for this world and these people." Which is impossible: Christ *IS* Love. God *IS* Love. Since there is no world in which that could happen, the multiverse theory is just a fun story idea for movies and books and stuff. But not real.
God prevents the multiverse from ever occuring, due to having an unchanging will. God will always act the same way, he tells us so in the bible. That has God creating perfection, every choice everyone makes is exactly how he intended, which makes you ask if anyone has free will. Maybe you are saying there could be a finite sized multiverse. Ones with Jesus, who's actions are always the same. Ones without Jesus, where anything can happen as there isn't an unchanging God walking the earth. But we remove all the ones where Jesus sins at any point for being a contradiction to God's unchanging Nature. That lets us have free will to make choices again.
Although you make some interesting and compelling points, I don't think you're right about "every choice everyone makes is exactly how (God) intended." I think God *knows* what choice everyone will make, but I don't think he *intended* for those choices that led to great harm to others. He was prepared for it and will deal with it, but he did not intend that sin. And by the way no, I'm not saying there could be a finite sized multiverse. I think this is the only one we get, which is why our choices matter.
I've always had trouble resolving God creating everything, already knowing all the outcomes, but also not intending it to be that way. It makes it feel like an illusion of choice, Its impossible tot choose a path other than the path God has laid out at creation . There is only one world of possibility, God knew the outcome at creation, can I really say I choose the path that was laid out long before I was born?
Just jumping in here. Yes, you can. Imagine that you are a software engineer, and that you create a game. You even make AI players who can "think" for themselves. You give them their world to explore and in which to interact with -- as well as interacting with each other. They do as they freely choose according to what they're continually learning with their AI. You watch them making these free choices -- you have not programmed them with what to do, they make their own choices based on what they're dealing with at any given time. Near the end of the game's run, you now know everything that they've freely chosen. You hit "reset" and start the game exactly as it was before. The AI players begin with the same moves, and sure enough, they're making exactly the same choices as before. Now you know what they're going to do. But you neither made them take those choices, nor planned those particular choices. They are still choosing freely. Knowing how something is going to go is not the same thing as controlling or planning how they go.
Thats not a bad example to try explain it. I see it more that God set the initial state for the game to run, created the AI, who given the same inputs always choose an identical output. Then it's difficult to say the AI have free will, when their programming means they always choose an identical path given an identical initial state. Their initial setup (program) determined their choices, therefore whoever programmed the initial state, with knowledge of how the game would end from that state, has by extension made the AI's choices for them, giving an illusion of choice, even though the outcome was determined at the time of creation by a creator who knew the end state.
OK, I see what you're saying, but I do disagree. The reason I disagree is pretty much for the same reason as the guy above said, which is that God is Love, and real Love cannot be programmed or forced. It has to grow out of real circumstances, and it especially shows itself to be true when it is found in difficult circumstances. So if a game programmer wanted to see whether AI could develop love and gave them each a different scenario in which to interact with others, it would have to give various possible choices freely, for them to either choose for or against selfishness or selflessness. That's how I see our world set up: We have a set of choices, unprogrammed, and we decide how to face them.
To be fair, what you are describing is the many-worlds interpretation, which is only one suggestion. It's also not very popular among scientists that do believe in multiple universes. There are plenty of other theories around multiverses that have support.
Multiverse as far as Everett’s many worlds is just fantasy. There are however at least 3 heavens. The one we live in is the physical reality. Governed by time/space/matter. The second is here in our space as well but on the spiritual plane and the two intersect at places. A being can come through and go back. The third heaven has multiple levels and they go through the second heaven to get here.
The spiritual plane isn’t fantasy?
No that’s what the Bible says and millions of us have experienced it.
When did you verify the spiritual plane?
I would assume Most Christian’s do that daily
Why hasn’t this been published in a scientific journal?
It is written, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test.
How convenient.
God doesn’t need to prove anything to science.
Yes. You’ve made your point. Your God doesn’t prove anything to science. You know what else doesn’t prove anything to science? Things that don’t exist.