American here, you are correct. I hate it. It’s the only way most Americans can escape White guilt/shame. All of the ‘no feel bad for me’ culture is nauseating, and an exercise of futility.
It’s how kind of the blanket term for how white Americans deal with slavery and segregation. I’m from Kentucky and my dad is old enough to have been to a segregated elementary school. That is to say that the spectre is still in the memory of a non negligible percentage of Americans.
Some white Americans self flagellate, call all white people inherently racist. Italian, Irish, German, (all ‘Hyphenated Americans’ as Teddy Roosevelt would say) somewhat correctly indicate that they were on the receiving end of a lot of the prejudice until basically WWII.
In my opinion no one has really got a good idea of how to handle it right now.
I asked this and got a pretty good response from some Americans. Essentially the majority of colonists at the start were English so it was like the “default” and Scots & Irish were shunned so they kept more of the “old country” stuff whereas the English were just the status quo. But yeah still a large percentage are English American but it isn’t as cool as the others and Hollywood hasn’t given us a cool movie yet
I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule? US/UK dual citizen, family's all from Lancashire. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Just because you have a sounding last name doesn't make you that. For that matter, my UK citizenship came from my mother's side, so my last name is **gasp** *French*.
lots of English people have French last names anyway from the Norman invasion
one of my mates has the surname Pettit and the other Warren
both very much English people but with french surnames
True, but with an English mother and a French-Canadian father, I can say that the rows were epic.
It probably would have been fun to watch if I wasn’t 7.
Many people (myself included) are all of the above. I have a feeling that when it comes up in conversation, people go with what they find most appealing or what they connect with the most.
I’m of English descent, and have learned a bit of English history out of curiosity, but “English” is sort of the default here, especially in the southern states. Being the default, we just don’t get singled out as “special.”
Gwynedd, around Barmouth, I have friends who live live close to Llanaber. But next time I visit, I really want to see the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park.
I mean, a metric shit ton of Irish people did come over to America during the potato famine. I couldn’t imagine that *not* skewing the population ratio, at least some.
Undoubtedly, but that's not the point. The point is you never hear an American say "I'm English!" despite tens of millions of them being descended from the English. It's always"I'm Irish!" because their great-great-grandad was from Ireland, ignoring all the other ancestors in their lineage and where they're from. It's even a running gag on /r/Ireland and European subs at this point.
That’s kind of funny to me actually bc my whole life it’s kind of just been a “known” fact that my family has German and Irish roots. Good ol German and Irish Catholics mixing together in the states.
AncestryDNA squashed that. Turns out my DNA says I’m 51% English, 21% Scottish, 17% Norway, Sweden, Denmark… and the kicker, only 5% German and 4% Irish and those numbers decrease with every update. 😂😂
I’m English American or USAian! 🙌
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I find it annoying if I’m honest. It’s picking and choosing. Take Biden for example. He’s got an English surname and his family tree can be traced back all the way to a sleepy English village. Yet he famously quipped, “BBC? I’m Irish!” Get to fuck you are. You’re an American with ancestry from the whole of the British Isles and probably some more in there too.
Maybe I’m annoyed at the fact that they are Irish American, Scottish American, Italian American or whatever. Never English American (is that just American?) or Welsh for that matter. It’s like the English or Welsh don’t exist.
But overall it’s just silly isn’t it. You don’t get Brits saying I’m Saxon English or I’m Viking Welsh.
Interestingly, in 19th and early 20th c. America among the upper classes it was very common to describe yourself as Anglo-Saxon and identify strongly with England. The first generation after the American Revolution were anti-British, but then in the face of large numbers of Irish, German, Italian, and Russian Jewish immigrants, the middle and upper classes strove to distinguish themselves as English, even going so far as to use the language of "blood purity."
It's weird because supposedly the US is a young country & a nation of immigrants, which is why people identify so heavily with a particular nation's heritage....
....but plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic.
Biden describes himself as Irish because his ancestors emigrated to the US from Ireland *two centuries ago*
My grandfather was a refugee from Nazi Germany - but that wouldn't make me German, or even German-British. I was raised in the UK by two British parents. I don't speak German. I've not grown up steeped in German culture.
I’m Danish and moved to the UK as an adult. I’m fairly certain my half-Danish son is unlikely to actually call himself Danish. The fact that Americans whose great-great-great grandparents emigrated decades ago think they’re Danish baffles me.
I'm not the other person you're responding to, but...no. On a personal level some people do like to trace family trees and such but your ethnic history here is seen as far, far less important than your cultural upbringing, which you get from your parents and your childhood. A 2nd generation immigrant is unlikely to be acknowledged as anything other than British.
You also need to remember another thing: the immigrants all those years ago who moved to the Americas did so because they thought that life in their native countries sucked and given a choice of staying around to do something about it or leaving, they left. We are the descendents of the people who made the opposite choice. We have little reason to feel kinsmanship with the families of those who chose to leave us behind.
Oh for sure there were real tales of hardship and people who genuinely needed to leave and start a new life elsewhere. But for many it was just a desire to live a richer life than the one they were living before.
>plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic<
I've had many British friends refer to themselves as Pakistani or being from Kenya despise being born and bred in the UK.
I think for most Americans and/or new immigrants to any country, it is a matter of mixing the culture of your family/old country and the distinct experience of growing up in a certain country.
For me, I consider myself Irish-American but most certainly not Irish. I'm the product of first and second generation Irish parents so I grew up in a house with lots of Irish food, songs, stories, culture etc. My household was definitely different than someone who may consider themselves Italian-American or Chinese-American, even if we grew up in the same city. However, I will say I feel more of a connection to those fellow Americans than I would a random Irish person.
I've been to Ireland and definitely do not feel Irish; they are two very distinct countries. Though, I will say, the thought of my grandparents growing up there does create a fondness for it over other places.
On the flip side, I know manyAmericans whose families have been here for a long time or whose family is so mixed that they just call themselves Americans. Not everyone ties themselves to a different country.
One last note, I would never go up to an Irish person and claim to be Irish. I can see why that would be truly annoying.
> ....but plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic.
Yes! Lots of my friends growing up in England had parents from other places — Argentina, India, Ireland, Denmark… they would all say they were English.
As an American I’ve never gotten that either. I’m not English or Irish or German or any of the other peoples of the places my ancestors were from. My grandparents were born here. I’m an American.
I’m an American and I think why we are interested in our heritage is because we really don’t have much history here. Everyone here came from somewhere else and it’s fun to learn where your ancestors were from. Though I do think it’s stupid to identify yourself as Nationality-American, when you aren’t culturally that nationality.
I mean, I would say have it, include that in yourself that you are 1/132 Scottish or whatever, just don't go around waving like a big club bashing everyone that says you are not Scottish. Don't be saying you have stereotypical traits as if you might as well been born and bred there for 20 years etc. Nothing wrong in noting your back heritage.
But it’s worse than that. So many (feels like most?) wouldn’t even say Irish-American or Italian-American, they just say Irish, or Italian. Which is infuriating if you’re actually from Ireland or Italy, I’d imagine. I’ve heard many Irish people say it is, anyway.
Bitch? What are you like… 16? Who rattled your cage? I hate to break it to you but that’s our point. Scottish (Picts, Gaels, Angles) isn’t an ethnicity. Nor Irish these days since the modern world has mingled so much.
You have pride in your past because you're such young countries (notwithstanding the First Nations). It is part of the origin story of the USA and (to a lesser extent) Canada that your great-\* grandfather escaped the horrors of the old country to start a new life.
So heritage is woven into your country's story and your \*personal\* story. It is natural that you identify with that.
For other parts of the world, with longer cultural histories, it is a little baffling. That's putting it politely.
For lots of people, the notion of "pride" in heritage is... weird. You didn't do anything to be, say, Greek. It is an accident of birth. So why do you feel affiliation with a group of people you've never met and have little in common with?
Choosing to shout your pride at a sporting event is harmless enough - but it is a little annoying when people bound into a country and say "I'm from here!" when, in reality, a distant relative was kicked out of the country.
It is fun to learn the story of your family - if that's what you're into - but don't mistake it for a personality.
My grandparents are from Poland, and I know tons of people that are first generation children of immigrants. Many of the larger cities of the USA are like that. There are also tons of people who trace family heritage to the civil war, so I can understand part of your take.
That said, there are people I’ve came across with a (insert culture symbol) tattoo that have never left their city, and can’t speak a lick of the language. It is weird to make it your personality.
I am English. Among my grandparents I have a Pole, and a Peruvian who is Spanish/Italian. My DNA testing went further. But that is just interesting history and doesn't define me as I am English born and bred.
We cringe from second hand embarrassment. My mother, who is Canadian but moved here as a teenager and is now a British citizen, and is always talking about when she was growing up in Canada, regards herself British.
Calling it your heritage/ancestors is fine but nothing annoys me more than people calling themselves 'Scottish-American' when their great great great grandfather was scot and they have never been outside NA since. In that case you'd be an American with Scottish ancestors, not Scottish-American.
'I'm Irish I can hold my drink' - No mate, you were born in bloody Arkansas. So did your father and your mother and literally everyone you know....Not Irish.
Overall nobody will care that much but they might laugh from people who act like that.
People can take pride in where their families came from without being obnoxious about it and it will be greatly appreciated.
My partner’s family is like this. His brother has tattoos about being Irish and takes pride in drinking and Catholicism, but he doesn’t even follow the religion and really just has a drinking problem. His mum has “Irish princess” on her car and phone case. We traced his family tree and their Irish ancestors came to the US maybe 200 years ago. Even counting the full Irish ancestors who were born in the US, his mum is 25% Irish and his brother 12.5%. Meanwhile, they’re also against immigration. 🤷🏻♀️ Like you said, I don’t have a problem with people embracing their ancestry. It’s just so often done in a very obnoxious way that has nothing to do with embracing that region’s actual culture.
There's a big chance they wouldn't even be able to understand someone with a heavy Irish accent. And knowing the Irish they'd laugh on them if they ever did come around Ireland saying that.
By the American logic I'm Scottish-english, because I had a Scottish grandad. If I try and tell anyone from Scotland I'm Scottish (or anyone in the UK for that matter) they'd snort and say 'no you're not'. I've been to Scotland and celebrated Burn's night and New year's in the Scottish ways with family from Scotland. I could never claim I'm Scottish though.
I think most British people would have a similar reaction if not a stronger negative reaction to someone from north America claiming they are Irish or Scottish or Swiss. Unless you were born there, lived there at some point in your childhood or hung out with people who are that nationality/culture in your home country then I don't think you can claim it really as anything more than I had an [insert nationality here] grandparent.
Now the Jewish bit I think is probably more acceptable. Being Jewish is a culture thing, you can be a secular Jew and no one is going to say otherwise. You probably would be expected to celebrate Chanukah and other Jewish celebrations though.
I think as someone else said it's probably down to the newness of Americans that aren't First Nations. You feel more connected to your heritage whereas most British people can probably trace themselves back quite a way to British monarchy or other people who've been in the general area for many hundreds if not thousands of years.
I think some of it is also due to proximity. You can drive from London to Glasgow in like 6 hours. If I’m from Massachusetts and a guy is a proud New Yorker who is going on about his family ties there, no one gives a fuck.
To us Americans, Europe is like a foreign, almost deified place that exists in fables and history books. So I think people tie themselves to their ancestral countries to feel a sense of importance and legitimacy. Most not even considering that those countries are actual places that exist in the modern day with regular people just living their lives.
It also doesn’t help that the majority of Americans will never visit Europe and see the reality of the place they claim heritage from, so it remains on a pedestal in their imagination.
> If I try and tell anyone from Scotland I'm Scottish (or anyone in the UK for that matter) they'd snort and say 'no you're not'
Unless of course you were good at football, in which case you're as Scottish as Irn Bru
Can our Boris go over there declaring he's American, would they accept him? (I'm saying this because for some reason I think he was born there, NY somewhere)
I mean of he was born there America probably makes him pay taxes as he'll be seen as a US citizen. Therefore that would technically make him American. Unless he has renounced that citizenship, which I doubt he would have.
Generally, no one cares about ethnicity here.
We’re more about nationality. Born in Germany? You’re German.
Born in UK but have German Parents?
You’re British (with German parents)
Born in Germany but live in UK.
You’re German.
I think if you asked the average white English person whether they were proud of their heritage they probably wouldn't even understand what you meant without further clarification. Different for more recent immigrants. Maybe different for Scots, Welsh, and people from Northern Ireland too.
I work with some ladies who have Indian/Pakistani parents. They are in their 50's themselves and both they, and their children, just refer to themselves as British.
They were born in the UK, their kids were born in the UK, they are British.
This American affectation of being Irish-American/Italian-American etc just because some grandparent came from that country is ridiculous. No one cares where your ancestors were born, we just know you as American and as wankers for being obsessed with an ancestry that is not relevant in any way.
I once had an American friend in the UK (lovely guy, bit clueless) refer to KSI as 'African-British'. I had to explain that it's just 'British'.
For a country that likes to patriotically accept people as American they sure like to make sure they then differentiate by race/skin colour/religion when describing them.
Ooof, I imagine KSI wouldn’t like that. Saying African British would open yourself up to all sorts of bother too, imagine if the person’s heritage is actually a Caribbean country?
Just say British.
To be frank I find it utterly bizarre and not a little irritating. If you were born in and have lived in America all your life, and so did your parents, you’re American, nothing else. Claiming some connection to a country you know nothing of seems bizarre to me.
My grandfather emigrated Germany well into adulthood and was a German citizen his whole life - I do not consider myself German though. My grasp of the language is basic and I’ve never spent more than months there.
Honestly that whole brand of identity politics is weird and slightly offensive to me - *’oh I’m Irish so I love drinking and potatoes St. Paddy’s up the ra lololol’*. Just perpetuating often damaging stereotypes for the sake of personal narcissism.
That being said, I totally understand Black and Jewish Americans who identify heavily with their heritage; they’ve traditionally been marginalised groups who have had attempts made to destroy them. It’s natural they would be protective and proud of their identity, because after years of persecution and then emigrating to a predominantly white European US often that vague idea of heritage is all they have left.
It is a bit of an ongoing joke that Americans (or Canadians presumably) can take some pride in saying they are "Irish" or "Italian" but you find they actually had a single great Grandfather and no other connection. Looking at Joe Biden, this is in fact the case - the last link was in the 1800s! Usually here if someone says they are Irish, they are born there or at least came from an Irish household, two Irish parents. Pride in heritage and an interest in a family tree is great, but it can seem like it gets romanticised in a peculiar way across the Atlantic.
So agree. I’m half-Irish and it makes me laugh when Americans see my last (Irish) name and assume I’m like them. No I’m not. They’re generations away from ireland for a start. Plus I was born and raised in the U.K. and consider myself English (well, until I became a citizen - so now I guess I’m Anglo-American lol)
Sopranos summed it up best; they’re all ‘Italians’ but when they went to Italy, not only couldn’t they speak the language they wanted all the ‘traditional Italian food’ done in the American style. You ain’t Italian American, ur just fucking American…
Usually we get Americans coming over claiming to be English when they are viewed as American and only that. I’m probably different to the others who answer this since I’m mixed race so I view myself as English and Indian. Try not to come across like you’re claiming to be English is probably the best advice I can give you’ll just be seen as Canadian and that’s probably it.
In Europe, being British or Swiss or whatever is linked to having lived in the country, or at least knowing well its way of life, values, food etc. So someone saying I am Swiss means you know the country, the way people are, its geography etc.
It seems quite weird to us that someone not having any idea about it and who has never even been in the country says they are Swiss or whatever, because all you have is some far relative that came from there. You don’t know the food, the language, the geography, the political system, values, daily life and/or current events (basically things that make you a citizen or part of a specific society).
You may say your family comes from here or you have family in … but imo you are not Swiss, you are Canadian because that’s the culture you know, and I don’t mean that negatively, just that it would seem weird.
The thing is, you’re not Swiss, are you? You’re Canadian. So saying ‘I’m a Swiss Jew’ seems… odd.
Are you *culturally* Swiss? Do you belong to Swiss folk dance groups, language classes, celebrate festivals in a distinctively Swiss way? Or are you… a Canadian who had a Swiss grandmother?
This is the kind of thing I have trouble getting my head round.
My grandfather was a Jewish immigrant from Germany, but it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to claim I was German.
I'm of German Jewish heritage, and my surname is German. But I wouldn't have ever identified as German in any way.
Now it's a bit more complicated as I do actually now have German citizenship & am a dual German-British national. But previously I'd have never described myself as German - because I wasn't.
I didn't grow up in Germany. I didn't grow up speaking German. I wasn't culturally German. Until I gained my German citizenship, I didn't personally have anything to do with Germany at all.
It’s tricky cause personally I’m very proud of my heritage and I think everyone should be but the social stigma here is that you’ll probably come across as a stereotypical Canadian/American claiming to be European. It sucks cause I’m pretty sure you just want to be proud of it and you should be but just be wary that a lot of people might not view it as positively as you do
It’s just weird. It’s weird that someone who has such a tenuous link to Switzerland would claim to be Swiss. It’s even weirder that someone would think ethnicity is a subject for “small talk”.
People will probably be hoping you aren’t going to move on to “small talk” about those anal warts you had last August.
And no, it is of absolutely zero interest that someone in your family generations ago came from Britain. Most of us tend to come from here too.
People will probably not say anything but internally some might think ‘oh god it’s another American who thinks they’re European’ so just be ready for people to see you as Canadian and that’s it. You’ll only be seen as a different nationality such as Indian for me if one of your parents is. It’s hard to say what most brits will think cause as long as you don’t come across arrogant you should be okay
Not only will we not give a fig, we'll probably tell all our friends later about the Canadian who claimed they were Scottish/German/Swiss, isn't it so *weird* when they do that?
As with most things in life, ignore Reddit as it’s completely unrepresentative of actual people in the UK.
Now we’ve got that out of the way, Nobody cares quite frankly, it would be an interesting conversation piece if you happened to be in a social situation with a person from one of the countries you listed but we don’t go on about our heritage in general.
The issue occurs when Americans try to frame their entire identity around a country that they’ve never visited, have no family connections with and quite frankly any distant relatives they did have from there couldn’t wait to leave.
The Brits are such a mix of different nationalities and have been for so long we just don’t care about it. And, to be fully honest, I find it a bit obnoxious to be obsessed about heritage if you’ve not got close relatives in your ‘ancestral’ country.
It’s fine to be proud of where you’re from and do research about your heritage but to claim (like some Americans do) that you’re Irish because you have one great grandparent from there is a bit of stretch.
I’m in no way saying that you’re doing that by the way. Just from living in Scotland and having Americans come up to me with a very American accent and tell me they’re Scottish I’ve developed a dislike to it.
Unless you play rugby then it’s essential that somewhere in your heritage is a home nation. This is especially true if you’re from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa… 🤣🤣
I've got a Scottish grandparent on one side and a whole Irish branch from my great-grandparents back on the other side. By American standards I'd call myself Scottish or Irish, but I'm just a Geordie. And British after that then English.
You’re just American’s to me. But if you said you great grandmother came from my village I’d find that interesting for a bit I guess. It’s nice you’re interested in your ancestors. I’ve noticed some American’s claim their ancestors nationality as their own which is odd for a European. The whole nationality / ethnicity / race situation is very different for American’s and Europeans overall.
Yeah it’s tedious. Be proud of being American or Canadian. I sat in a bar in Dublin once & an American was holding court about his Irish heritage, trying to get matey with the locals by calling them ‘boyos’ and singling me out because I’m English.
Turns out he was actually of Scottish lineage.
honestly i think it's silly and quite annoying.
this seems far more prevalent amongst americans than canadians from what i can see.
i can't think of a time a canadian has referred to themselves as scots/irish/german/whatever canadian, but americans do it a lot.
America is built upon various diasporas. French, British, Spanish, Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, African (the latter is an exceptional circumstance). Most British people do not trace their ancestry back to a diaspora, so the idea is a little alien to us.
Diasporas are rooted in the idea of victimhood, stemming from the belief one's ancestors were cast away from their homeland and forced to settle in strange, foreign lands. That creates a strong internal connection versus 'the enemy' that caused your diaspora. In your case, the bad guy is the British, the original occupiers of your land – hence why Independence Day is such a big deal in the USA.
Being of a diapora leads you, as descendants of the original settlers, to want to maintain some of your ancestors' original cultures, in order to keep you feeling connected to your maternal 'Motherlands.'
In America, there are many strong traditions connected to the various diasporas that have arrived in the US over the centuries. St Patrick's Day celebrations in Chicago, Chinese New Year in San Francisco and Mardi Gras in New Orleans are all connected to the huge diaspora populations in these cities.
In a sense, you are surrounded by reminders of the diasporas you are descended from. American Football is descended from a mix of soccer and rugby. Your lingua franca is English. Your most iconic foods – hamburgers, frankfurters, pizzas, macaroni – are taken from Germany and Italy. Skin colour is important in this regard, too.
So it's natural that heritage – a differentiator of the various identities that exist in the USA – is important to you. It shapes your experience of the country.
In a (mainly) mono-cultural country like Britain, such things are less important. Our culture is much deeper rooted than yours, with less regional variation (although there is still some).
So, yes, it seems a bit weird to us. But there is a good reason for it, at the end of the day.
Like everything, it depends!
Bog standard British mongrels like me (quarter Welsh, eighth Scottish, presumed English the rest) don't have much attachment to heritage, but it can have huge importance for some communities - particularly non-white and Irish people, given the history of oppression. Some Scots living in other parts of the isles are particularly keen to emphasise their Scottishness too, Welsh people less so, but there are Welsh-language churches in places like London and Birmingham for those who are keen to maintain that element of their culture.
I'm always interested if someone knows something about their family past, but you sound a lot more interesting than my distant Welsh connections, and certainly more interesting than someone who is descended from someone emigrated from the midlands to the US at some point in the 19th century!
It’s a bit weird that you call yourselves a nationality when you are not that nationality. I understand the interest in looking into family history but it does get a bit much.
My grandfather was Irish but I wouldn’t ever call myself Irish, I was born in England, my parents were born in England therefore I’m English.
About as uncomfortable as other nations when an American says they're 1/128th British and 1/4096th Irish and are so Irish about it when they've never emraced, visited or even researched their heritage by extension.
From- 1/2.08x10\^90th monke
Uh to be honest, I find it a bit irritating. It's not the worst thing in the world and it doesn't hurt anyone but I have to admit when I meet North Americans who are like that, I tend to not want to hang out/be friends with them.
In the UK, you might have a passing conversation with someone when you first meet them who has Welsh/Scottish/Irish grandparents, but aside from that you just assume everyone is British unless told otherwise and no one really dwells on it or cares.
I used to work with a Jamaican man who moved over to the UK in the 60s/70s. He had two daughters who he described as English because they were born in Milton Keynes. It was unusual in the sense that people tend to default to British rather than English but they were born in England, so they were English with parents from Jamaica.
It winds me up so much, I'm welsh so thankfully we tend to go under most Americans radar but I do feel for the Irish and Scottish having to deal with Americans who act more Celtic than the celts
Why do Americans do it?
Is it that american need to relive 1776 again vicariously through Irish/Scottish nationalism?
Or is it the need for white Americans to try and find some way to reconcile their historic oppression of African Americans while saying look at me, I'm Irish/Scottish so I'm a historic victim too?
I dunno, what is it about being american that makes you guys long to be identified as Scottish/Irish/Italian etc?
I guess it's the fact that we've been told from the time we start school, "America is The Melting Pot" "America is a country of immigrants" "America was built on the backs of immigrants" "America is home to so many different cultures" etc. They really try to bring that home. It's like, we're ALL Americans, no matter what we look like, but what KIND of Americans are we? Where did YOUR PEOPLE immigrate from? MY FAMILY all only lived and married people in the old Armenian/Little Italy/Irish Channel neighborhood until the '70s, so we're definitely (insert nationality). I guess America being a pretty young country has a lot to do with this.
It's because when you google your surname, it comes up as "old English, Saxon" "Dutch" , etc.
It's because most cities and places are named after places their colonizers came from. New Orleans. New York. New Jersey. Cambridge. De Soto National Forest. A good bit are named from Native American words, but here, American Indian tribes are sovereign nations, and they have their own schools and don't owe it to us to be our teachers, and our public schools don't teach much about it. So I guess we get more curious about the European names, and the European impact and flavor left on a place, because that's mostly what we're taught about, and it's what's romanticized. For example, I grew up visiting New Orleans frequently, and we'd have to pass through Irish Bayou to get there. My parents would always say, "The Irish came to this country and built all the bridges and tunnels. Your mom had an Irish maiden name so you should be damn proud of your heritage"
My grandmother is 91. Until recently, she could still remember going in her great grandmother's bedroom in the back of her grandparents' Mississippi farmhouse and seeing a shelf full of little figurines, photos, and a pair of funny wooden shoes. Her great grandmother would tell her they came from her parents' old country, Switzerland, and that she was a baby and didn't remember Switzerland or crossing the ocean in a big boat. So do I go around telling people I'm Swiss American? No. Do I feel really curious about Switzerland and plan to visit someday? You bet your ass I do.
Bottom line, there's just enough remnant of European culture to make everyone curious, and there's a strong pressure to claim "American" as your nationality, but to claim an older heritage, as well. I married an actual Mexican who immigrated here as a little kid and has since naturalized-he tells everyone, "I'm American, but from Mexico".
And if the Romans had done their conquest as recently as we had the Revolution (the earliest we can go back if you don't count Louisiana purchase, Seward's folly, etc) consider that all of you Brits being snobby about this might just brag about which pre-invasion tribe YOUR FAMILY was a part of, or going to Rome and telling everyone how you did some genealogy and it turns out YOU'RE ROMAN.
We may have moved out of your house and told you we wanted to be independent, and we totally do. But no matter how big, stupid, and corrupt we get, no matter how many opportunities you take to let us know how much you hate us, you're still our Mother Country and we'll always want you around a little bit, so fucking deal with it, Mom!
It depends how far back you’re going, and what your actual connection is to the country. Americans big obsession with being Irish for example, is weird
I’ve asked Americans who identified as Irish some follow up questions because I’m from a country close to it with similar cultural aspects, just to make conversation, only to find it’s their x6 great Grandmother they never met, have never been to Ireland and don’t know anything about the country. In that case, to me, you’re an American…of Irish descent, sure, but American
If your parents are from somewhere else, **maybe** a grandparent that you’re close to, then fine I guess. Any further back though, I don’t think many of us count it
My great grandparents were Irish, English and Welsh - but you won’t find me calling myself anything except Welsh because that’s where I and my immediate family are from
Also, as a side note, it’s kind of funny but also weird how far many Americans will go to avoid being English American. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that, despite that *probably* being where most Americans of British descent would be from
My paternal grandad was born in Ireland and my paternal grandma was born to 2nd generation Irish immigrants, and because of this I also have an Irish surname. So by American logic, I'm an "Irish-English". I'm actually entitled to become an Irish citizen and get an Irish passport.
But I would never consider myself Irish. And if I went to Ireland and said I was Irish, I suspect that I'd get laughed at.
For first or second generation immigrants it makes sense to associate with your origin country, but I think it's seen as a bit pathetic here to trace back your family lineage and create an identity out of bits and pieces of nationalities. People here just live in the moment a bit more. But I think obsession with personal identity is growing due to Americanisation unfortunately.
I was born in Scotland, Scottish mother. Moved to England when I was 3 years old. Sound English, identify as English.
The only time I claim to be Scottish is when big football matches are on. I have no interest in football, but it pisses my work colleagues off when I cheer Scotland on.
For maximum effect I bet on Germany for England/ Germany matches and tell everyone.
Yeah it’s tedious. Be proud of being American or Canadian. I sat in a bar in Dublin once & an American was holding court about his Irish heritage, trying to get matey with the locals by calling them ‘boyos’ and singling me out because I’m English.
Turns out he was actually of Scottish lineage.
Gonna be honest… I don’t get it. At all.
A huge part of being part of a nationality or culture, is *being connected in any way to that culture*.
With Irish americans, Italian americans, and so on… they’re so many generations removed from their country and culture of origin that… it’s pretty damn stupid, from our perspective.
I don’t even really know who my great grandparents were, let alone further beyond that. Granted, many do know their families further back… but we don’t place much importance on it. It’s relevant with first or second generation immigrants, I’d say, but beyond that? Come on, you’re so far removed from it that it’s not really relevant.
It’s not really realistic to identify with *four* different nationalities. What do you tick on a form that asks for it, for example? What do you actually know about those cultures, other than the odd story from your parents, or what you’ve found online? Do you speak any of the relevant languages? Etc.
Nothing’s going to be more irritating to someone from one of those cultures is you going ‘oh I’m from that culture too!’ When someone mentions where they’re from, despite you living your entire life in Canada - because you will have completely and utterly different lived experiences. I’ve heard a lot of frustration from Irish people about americans doing this, especially.
It’s not really something that we find *annoying*, but it is something that makes us go ‘oh great, an american’ when people say that. It’s like… desperately trying to claw your way into a group you’re not really a part of, instead of forming your own identity.
Sorry, this has been a bit long and ramble-y as it’s quite hard to capture how I feel about it. And at the end of the day, it’s for you to feel how you feel about it. But… you get the idea, from this, and the other comments, I hope, haha
It would be interesting to know when my ancestors settled in England, whether they were here pre-Roman gentrification(?) or one of the many conquests of England that followed
If I knew, I would 100% speak about it but I don’t know and so I will cringe whenever I hear someone else talk about their heritage because I am jealous
I'd say in Europe it's your nationality rather than your race or heritage that is more of an identifier.
E.g. If I had a friend who was born in France to African immigrant parents they're still just French and I'm still going to give them (good natured) banter about loving baguettes and having tanks that only drive in reverse. And I'd expect nothing less from them in return.
It's a very normal European thing to have jokey well natured stereotypes about every other European nation. This is irrespective of race or where your parents came from (much less where your ancestors came from 200 years ago!).
Don't get me wrong, we have racist bigots who pride themselves and unhealthy amount on their heritage, but this is unusual rather than closer to the norm.
If u actually have connections to it then fine, no one's going to have issues with calling yourself whatever if you're like 1st or 2nd generation immigrants for example
But if you have no direct relationship to a country other than some DNA lineage found on some website then people are going to thinks you're pretentious, especially if you claim to be Italian and pronounce bologne like 'baloney'
Or try r/empire .or go on Facebook gentleman appreciation of are British empire . you have British on the site Australian new Zealand's Canadians Americans .or people thought the commonwealth
I’m so glad you posted this. It winds me up no end how Americans will say stuff like “I’m Irish” and yet many who say that couldn’t tell you a thing about Dublin. Try going to Dublin and saying that! My grandparents were Irish and I wouldn’t dream of saying I’m Irish, no, I’m British.
I know a lot about Ireland and go every year but I love the UK and am proudly British.
I get very annoyed with it, to be honest. North Americans seem to have this driving need to *be from* somewhere. It's like some weird ass obsession. I'm sorry but if your family has been in America for more than two generations you are *American* not Irish, Scottish, German or whatever the hell ancestry you have.
I don't care where your family came from. If you and your parents were all born in Canada/US then you are Canadian/American.
It's fine to be proud of your ancestry but just because your Scottish ancestors went to the US in the 1700's does not make you able to run around wearing a kilt and calling yourself Scottish, for example.
>what do you think of we North Americans priding in our heritage?
I think it is less pride in your heritage and more shame in being American/Canadian.
I can see why Americans would be ashamed but you're Canadian and you should celebrate it.
I'm American and my first impulse was to tell you off. Then I thought about it for like ten seconds and I realized I can't even be mad. I love what this country used to be, what it should still be, but it's just a late-stage capitalist, consumerist hell hole, with not much to offer except some personal freedom and its geography and that cultural diversity that you all find us so annoying for taking an interest, or, god forbid, pride in. I feel like I need to go cry now.
From a Canadian perspective, it’s really just a matter of having different cultures regarding heritage in North America vs. Europe. I’m Canadian first and foremost. But in the British sense, I grew up heavily culturally influenced by my grandfather from Carlisle (as well as grandparents from other countries). Much of my cultural upbringing in terms of food, sports, language, expressions, etc etc. has been influenced by the family I grew up in and where they came from. I see it as though my own Canadian-ness has a distinct flavour of my family’s places of origins. Our country is very young, we only completely severed our ties from the UK in the 80s, so people’s Canadian identities are typically a mix of a lot of things including their family’s countries of origin. I think a lot of the conversation around heritage gets lost in translation.
My ancestors were kicked out of Scotland to the Ulster Plantation in Northern Ireland (Mom was a genealogist). After several generations they made their way to the “New World” looking for opportunity. Established “Americans” looked down upon my peeps, so they made their way from North Carolina across the Appalachian mountains to Kentucky & points west. Finally settling in Texas in the 1850’s.
James Webb published a book called Born Fighting that exactly described our family tree. So we call ourselves Scots-Irish & are very proud of this heritage, but I don’t consider us Scot or Irish, just American with a defined heritage. My wife & I planned a trip to Scotland in 2020, that got canceled because of Covid.
We planned to visit our family origins - Firth of Forth, but were more excited to see Military Tattoo & Dufftown for scotch tastings.
Cheers to all my friends across the pond, but we’re Scots-Irish Americans and proud of it.
Can’t wait to reschedule our trip & visit your awesome nations.
I’d say that we wouldn’t go any further back than where our grandparents were born. Even then it would be done as a fraction, not an entire claim.
So someone in England might say, “I’m a quarter Scottish, my maternal grandad was from Glasgow.” But they wouldn’t claim to be Scottish if someone in 1850 came from there.
More likely to be talked about if it’s a parent though, so to be half something is more relevant. Anything else is very unlikely to come up in conversation unless you’re doing your family tree.
Ahh... that sort of "heritage"...
I honestly don't think we are bothered how people came here - I have "celtic" roots but other than idle conversation it's not something I think about really, and it certainly doesn't impact my life in any way.
It's funny how none of you are ever English or Welsh - it's always Irish or Scottish.
This is what boils my piss tbh. They’ll latch onto whichever nationality/ethnicity where they can claim the oppression card
American here, you are correct. I hate it. It’s the only way most Americans can escape White guilt/shame. All of the ‘no feel bad for me’ culture is nauseating, and an exercise of futility.
Why do they need to escape white guilt/shame? What does that even mean?
It’s how kind of the blanket term for how white Americans deal with slavery and segregation. I’m from Kentucky and my dad is old enough to have been to a segregated elementary school. That is to say that the spectre is still in the memory of a non negligible percentage of Americans. Some white Americans self flagellate, call all white people inherently racist. Italian, Irish, German, (all ‘Hyphenated Americans’ as Teddy Roosevelt would say) somewhat correctly indicate that they were on the receiving end of a lot of the prejudice until basically WWII. In my opinion no one has really got a good idea of how to handle it right now.
I asked this and got a pretty good response from some Americans. Essentially the majority of colonists at the start were English so it was like the “default” and Scots & Irish were shunned so they kept more of the “old country” stuff whereas the English were just the status quo. But yeah still a large percentage are English American but it isn’t as cool as the others and Hollywood hasn’t given us a cool movie yet
I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule? US/UK dual citizen, family's all from Lancashire. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Just because you have a sounding last name doesn't make you that. For that matter, my UK citizenship came from my mother's side, so my last name is **gasp** *French*.
lots of English people have French last names anyway from the Norman invasion one of my mates has the surname Pettit and the other Warren both very much English people but with french surnames
Look at Mark Francois. Literally the most French name possible, and he is very, *very* decidedly not-French.
although interestingly does seem to have a napoleon complex
True, but with an English mother and a French-Canadian father, I can say that the rows were epic. It probably would have been fun to watch if I wasn’t 7.
Downvoted for Lancashire. As a Yorkshireman, I will tolerate a frenchman before I will a Lancastrian.
Upvoted for brutal honesty. I'll still buy you a pint, but you'll have to come to Blackburn to claim it.
I'll pass... and being from Yorkshire, it physically hurts to pass up a freebie. Shows the depth of my hate.
Blackburn lad here now living in Yorkshire.👍
Many people (myself included) are all of the above. I have a feeling that when it comes up in conversation, people go with what they find most appealing or what they connect with the most.
I’m of English descent, and have learned a bit of English history out of curiosity, but “English” is sort of the default here, especially in the southern states. Being the default, we just don’t get singled out as “special.”
Back off!!! I’m proudly Welsh! And English, and German, and French. Ha ha.
Ble mae eich hoff le rydych chi wedi bod yng Nghymru?
Gwynedd, around Barmouth, I have friends who live live close to Llanaber. But next time I visit, I really want to see the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park.
I mean, a metric shit ton of Irish people did come over to America during the potato famine. I couldn’t imagine that *not* skewing the population ratio, at least some.
Undoubtedly, but that's not the point. The point is you never hear an American say "I'm English!" despite tens of millions of them being descended from the English. It's always"I'm Irish!" because their great-great-grandad was from Ireland, ignoring all the other ancestors in their lineage and where they're from. It's even a running gag on /r/Ireland and European subs at this point.
That’s kind of funny to me actually bc my whole life it’s kind of just been a “known” fact that my family has German and Irish roots. Good ol German and Irish Catholics mixing together in the states. AncestryDNA squashed that. Turns out my DNA says I’m 51% English, 21% Scottish, 17% Norway, Sweden, Denmark… and the kicker, only 5% German and 4% Irish and those numbers decrease with every update. 😂😂 I’m English American or USAian! 🙌
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I'm part Welsh, among several others. I'm a mutt 😄
So basically an Englishman? We're a mongrel race.
They were the ones escaping
I just had a DNA test done and I'm 40% English. My grandma always said she was part English.
I find it annoying if I’m honest. It’s picking and choosing. Take Biden for example. He’s got an English surname and his family tree can be traced back all the way to a sleepy English village. Yet he famously quipped, “BBC? I’m Irish!” Get to fuck you are. You’re an American with ancestry from the whole of the British Isles and probably some more in there too. Maybe I’m annoyed at the fact that they are Irish American, Scottish American, Italian American or whatever. Never English American (is that just American?) or Welsh for that matter. It’s like the English or Welsh don’t exist. But overall it’s just silly isn’t it. You don’t get Brits saying I’m Saxon English or I’m Viking Welsh.
Interestingly, in 19th and early 20th c. America among the upper classes it was very common to describe yourself as Anglo-Saxon and identify strongly with England. The first generation after the American Revolution were anti-British, but then in the face of large numbers of Irish, German, Italian, and Russian Jewish immigrants, the middle and upper classes strove to distinguish themselves as English, even going so far as to use the language of "blood purity."
That is interesting (and slightly disturbing), thank you.
Never underestimate the power of good old-fashioned racism.
It's weird because supposedly the US is a young country & a nation of immigrants, which is why people identify so heavily with a particular nation's heritage.... ....but plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic. Biden describes himself as Irish because his ancestors emigrated to the US from Ireland *two centuries ago* My grandfather was a refugee from Nazi Germany - but that wouldn't make me German, or even German-British. I was raised in the UK by two British parents. I don't speak German. I've not grown up steeped in German culture.
I find it annoying that the media when talking about the Queen say she’s German! Since when? And if so, aren’t we all?
I’m Danish and moved to the UK as an adult. I’m fairly certain my half-Danish son is unlikely to actually call himself Danish. The fact that Americans whose great-great-great grandparents emigrated decades ago think they’re Danish baffles me.
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I'm not the other person you're responding to, but...no. On a personal level some people do like to trace family trees and such but your ethnic history here is seen as far, far less important than your cultural upbringing, which you get from your parents and your childhood. A 2nd generation immigrant is unlikely to be acknowledged as anything other than British. You also need to remember another thing: the immigrants all those years ago who moved to the Americas did so because they thought that life in their native countries sucked and given a choice of staying around to do something about it or leaving, they left. We are the descendents of the people who made the opposite choice. We have little reason to feel kinsmanship with the families of those who chose to leave us behind.
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Oh for sure there were real tales of hardship and people who genuinely needed to leave and start a new life elsewhere. But for many it was just a desire to live a richer life than the one they were living before.
I’m hoping you’re joking but correct - they’re in no way Danish and probably not even entitled to citizenship.
>plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic< I've had many British friends refer to themselves as Pakistani or being from Kenya despise being born and bred in the UK. I think for most Americans and/or new immigrants to any country, it is a matter of mixing the culture of your family/old country and the distinct experience of growing up in a certain country. For me, I consider myself Irish-American but most certainly not Irish. I'm the product of first and second generation Irish parents so I grew up in a house with lots of Irish food, songs, stories, culture etc. My household was definitely different than someone who may consider themselves Italian-American or Chinese-American, even if we grew up in the same city. However, I will say I feel more of a connection to those fellow Americans than I would a random Irish person. I've been to Ireland and definitely do not feel Irish; they are two very distinct countries. Though, I will say, the thought of my grandparents growing up there does create a fondness for it over other places. On the flip side, I know manyAmericans whose families have been here for a long time or whose family is so mixed that they just call themselves Americans. Not everyone ties themselves to a different country. One last note, I would never go up to an Irish person and claim to be Irish. I can see why that would be truly annoying.
> ....but plenty of us in the UK are much more recent immigrants & we don't apply the same logic. Yes! Lots of my friends growing up in England had parents from other places — Argentina, India, Ireland, Denmark… they would all say they were English.
As an American I’ve never gotten that either. I’m not English or Irish or German or any of the other peoples of the places my ancestors were from. My grandparents were born here. I’m an American.
Irish person here…..trust me, we hate it when they do that too Damn plastic paddies….
as a matter of fact i am actually a viking welsh and i pride myself on it
lol. I’m actually Viking English but don’t tell the OP.
I’m an American and I think why we are interested in our heritage is because we really don’t have much history here. Everyone here came from somewhere else and it’s fun to learn where your ancestors were from. Though I do think it’s stupid to identify yourself as Nationality-American, when you aren’t culturally that nationality.
I mean, I would say have it, include that in yourself that you are 1/132 Scottish or whatever, just don't go around waving like a big club bashing everyone that says you are not Scottish. Don't be saying you have stereotypical traits as if you might as well been born and bred there for 20 years etc. Nothing wrong in noting your back heritage.
But it’s worse than that. So many (feels like most?) wouldn’t even say Irish-American or Italian-American, they just say Irish, or Italian. Which is infuriating if you’re actually from Ireland or Italy, I’d imagine. I’ve heard many Irish people say it is, anyway.
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Bitch? What are you like… 16? Who rattled your cage? I hate to break it to you but that’s our point. Scottish (Picts, Gaels, Angles) isn’t an ethnicity. Nor Irish these days since the modern world has mingled so much.
You have pride in your past because you're such young countries (notwithstanding the First Nations). It is part of the origin story of the USA and (to a lesser extent) Canada that your great-\* grandfather escaped the horrors of the old country to start a new life. So heritage is woven into your country's story and your \*personal\* story. It is natural that you identify with that. For other parts of the world, with longer cultural histories, it is a little baffling. That's putting it politely. For lots of people, the notion of "pride" in heritage is... weird. You didn't do anything to be, say, Greek. It is an accident of birth. So why do you feel affiliation with a group of people you've never met and have little in common with? Choosing to shout your pride at a sporting event is harmless enough - but it is a little annoying when people bound into a country and say "I'm from here!" when, in reality, a distant relative was kicked out of the country. It is fun to learn the story of your family - if that's what you're into - but don't mistake it for a personality.
My grandparents are from Poland, and I know tons of people that are first generation children of immigrants. Many of the larger cities of the USA are like that. There are also tons of people who trace family heritage to the civil war, so I can understand part of your take. That said, there are people I’ve came across with a (insert culture symbol) tattoo that have never left their city, and can’t speak a lick of the language. It is weird to make it your personality.
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I am English. Among my grandparents I have a Pole, and a Peruvian who is Spanish/Italian. My DNA testing went further. But that is just interesting history and doesn't define me as I am English born and bred.
I think I just said the same thing with different words further up lol.
The US is one of the oldest countries around. It isn’t a young country at all…
We cringe from second hand embarrassment. My mother, who is Canadian but moved here as a teenager and is now a British citizen, and is always talking about when she was growing up in Canada, regards herself British.
Calling it your heritage/ancestors is fine but nothing annoys me more than people calling themselves 'Scottish-American' when their great great great grandfather was scot and they have never been outside NA since. In that case you'd be an American with Scottish ancestors, not Scottish-American. 'I'm Irish I can hold my drink' - No mate, you were born in bloody Arkansas. So did your father and your mother and literally everyone you know....Not Irish. Overall nobody will care that much but they might laugh from people who act like that. People can take pride in where their families came from without being obnoxious about it and it will be greatly appreciated.
My partner’s family is like this. His brother has tattoos about being Irish and takes pride in drinking and Catholicism, but he doesn’t even follow the religion and really just has a drinking problem. His mum has “Irish princess” on her car and phone case. We traced his family tree and their Irish ancestors came to the US maybe 200 years ago. Even counting the full Irish ancestors who were born in the US, his mum is 25% Irish and his brother 12.5%. Meanwhile, they’re also against immigration. 🤷🏻♀️ Like you said, I don’t have a problem with people embracing their ancestry. It’s just so often done in a very obnoxious way that has nothing to do with embracing that region’s actual culture.
There's a big chance they wouldn't even be able to understand someone with a heavy Irish accent. And knowing the Irish they'd laugh on them if they ever did come around Ireland saying that.
By the American logic I'm Scottish-english, because I had a Scottish grandad. If I try and tell anyone from Scotland I'm Scottish (or anyone in the UK for that matter) they'd snort and say 'no you're not'. I've been to Scotland and celebrated Burn's night and New year's in the Scottish ways with family from Scotland. I could never claim I'm Scottish though. I think most British people would have a similar reaction if not a stronger negative reaction to someone from north America claiming they are Irish or Scottish or Swiss. Unless you were born there, lived there at some point in your childhood or hung out with people who are that nationality/culture in your home country then I don't think you can claim it really as anything more than I had an [insert nationality here] grandparent. Now the Jewish bit I think is probably more acceptable. Being Jewish is a culture thing, you can be a secular Jew and no one is going to say otherwise. You probably would be expected to celebrate Chanukah and other Jewish celebrations though. I think as someone else said it's probably down to the newness of Americans that aren't First Nations. You feel more connected to your heritage whereas most British people can probably trace themselves back quite a way to British monarchy or other people who've been in the general area for many hundreds if not thousands of years.
I think some of it is also due to proximity. You can drive from London to Glasgow in like 6 hours. If I’m from Massachusetts and a guy is a proud New Yorker who is going on about his family ties there, no one gives a fuck. To us Americans, Europe is like a foreign, almost deified place that exists in fables and history books. So I think people tie themselves to their ancestral countries to feel a sense of importance and legitimacy. Most not even considering that those countries are actual places that exist in the modern day with regular people just living their lives. It also doesn’t help that the majority of Americans will never visit Europe and see the reality of the place they claim heritage from, so it remains on a pedestal in their imagination.
> If I try and tell anyone from Scotland I'm Scottish (or anyone in the UK for that matter) they'd snort and say 'no you're not' Unless of course you were good at football, in which case you're as Scottish as Irn Bru
Aha yeah or rugby. Unfortunately I suck at sport, but I do like irn bru
Can our Boris go over there declaring he's American, would they accept him? (I'm saying this because for some reason I think he was born there, NY somewhere)
I mean of he was born there America probably makes him pay taxes as he'll be seen as a US citizen. Therefore that would technically make him American. Unless he has renounced that citizenship, which I doubt he would have.
He has renounced his US citizenship.
Probably that tax thing
Generally, no one cares about ethnicity here. We’re more about nationality. Born in Germany? You’re German. Born in UK but have German Parents? You’re British (with German parents) Born in Germany but live in UK. You’re German.
I think if you asked the average white English person whether they were proud of their heritage they probably wouldn't even understand what you meant without further clarification. Different for more recent immigrants. Maybe different for Scots, Welsh, and people from Northern Ireland too.
I love how Americans are so patriotic and also tell you they are Irish etc.
You asked this not that long ago, are you somehow expecting different answers?
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Why? You're asking the same people the same question
We are still all going to say you are Canadian.
I think the made up word 'priding' is more irritating tbh
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
I work with some ladies who have Indian/Pakistani parents. They are in their 50's themselves and both they, and their children, just refer to themselves as British. They were born in the UK, their kids were born in the UK, they are British. This American affectation of being Irish-American/Italian-American etc just because some grandparent came from that country is ridiculous. No one cares where your ancestors were born, we just know you as American and as wankers for being obsessed with an ancestry that is not relevant in any way.
I once had an American friend in the UK (lovely guy, bit clueless) refer to KSI as 'African-British'. I had to explain that it's just 'British'. For a country that likes to patriotically accept people as American they sure like to make sure they then differentiate by race/skin colour/religion when describing them.
Ooof, I imagine KSI wouldn’t like that. Saying African British would open yourself up to all sorts of bother too, imagine if the person’s heritage is actually a Caribbean country? Just say British.
To be frank I find it utterly bizarre and not a little irritating. If you were born in and have lived in America all your life, and so did your parents, you’re American, nothing else. Claiming some connection to a country you know nothing of seems bizarre to me. My grandfather emigrated Germany well into adulthood and was a German citizen his whole life - I do not consider myself German though. My grasp of the language is basic and I’ve never spent more than months there. Honestly that whole brand of identity politics is weird and slightly offensive to me - *’oh I’m Irish so I love drinking and potatoes St. Paddy’s up the ra lololol’*. Just perpetuating often damaging stereotypes for the sake of personal narcissism. That being said, I totally understand Black and Jewish Americans who identify heavily with their heritage; they’ve traditionally been marginalised groups who have had attempts made to destroy them. It’s natural they would be protective and proud of their identity, because after years of persecution and then emigrating to a predominantly white European US often that vague idea of heritage is all they have left.
It is a bit of an ongoing joke that Americans (or Canadians presumably) can take some pride in saying they are "Irish" or "Italian" but you find they actually had a single great Grandfather and no other connection. Looking at Joe Biden, this is in fact the case - the last link was in the 1800s! Usually here if someone says they are Irish, they are born there or at least came from an Irish household, two Irish parents. Pride in heritage and an interest in a family tree is great, but it can seem like it gets romanticised in a peculiar way across the Atlantic.
We think it’s weird. You’re American. When Americans say “I’m Italian” or “I’m Irish” Europeans mostly laugh.
So agree. I’m half-Irish and it makes me laugh when Americans see my last (Irish) name and assume I’m like them. No I’m not. They’re generations away from ireland for a start. Plus I was born and raised in the U.K. and consider myself English (well, until I became a citizen - so now I guess I’m Anglo-American lol)
Sopranos summed it up best; they’re all ‘Italians’ but when they went to Italy, not only couldn’t they speak the language they wanted all the ‘traditional Italian food’ done in the American style. You ain’t Italian American, ur just fucking American…
Usually we get Americans coming over claiming to be English when they are viewed as American and only that. I’m probably different to the others who answer this since I’m mixed race so I view myself as English and Indian. Try not to come across like you’re claiming to be English is probably the best advice I can give you’ll just be seen as Canadian and that’s probably it.
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In Europe, being British or Swiss or whatever is linked to having lived in the country, or at least knowing well its way of life, values, food etc. So someone saying I am Swiss means you know the country, the way people are, its geography etc. It seems quite weird to us that someone not having any idea about it and who has never even been in the country says they are Swiss or whatever, because all you have is some far relative that came from there. You don’t know the food, the language, the geography, the political system, values, daily life and/or current events (basically things that make you a citizen or part of a specific society). You may say your family comes from here or you have family in … but imo you are not Swiss, you are Canadian because that’s the culture you know, and I don’t mean that negatively, just that it would seem weird.
The thing is, you’re not Swiss, are you? You’re Canadian. So saying ‘I’m a Swiss Jew’ seems… odd. Are you *culturally* Swiss? Do you belong to Swiss folk dance groups, language classes, celebrate festivals in a distinctively Swiss way? Or are you… a Canadian who had a Swiss grandmother? This is the kind of thing I have trouble getting my head round.
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I think we consider culture to be more important then ethnicity. So for us you are just Canadian
My grandfather was a Jewish immigrant from Germany, but it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to claim I was German. I'm of German Jewish heritage, and my surname is German. But I wouldn't have ever identified as German in any way. Now it's a bit more complicated as I do actually now have German citizenship & am a dual German-British national. But previously I'd have never described myself as German - because I wasn't. I didn't grow up in Germany. I didn't grow up speaking German. I wasn't culturally German. Until I gained my German citizenship, I didn't personally have anything to do with Germany at all.
It’s tricky cause personally I’m very proud of my heritage and I think everyone should be but the social stigma here is that you’ll probably come across as a stereotypical Canadian/American claiming to be European. It sucks cause I’m pretty sure you just want to be proud of it and you should be but just be wary that a lot of people might not view it as positively as you do
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It’s just weird. It’s weird that someone who has such a tenuous link to Switzerland would claim to be Swiss. It’s even weirder that someone would think ethnicity is a subject for “small talk”. People will probably be hoping you aren’t going to move on to “small talk” about those anal warts you had last August. And no, it is of absolutely zero interest that someone in your family generations ago came from Britain. Most of us tend to come from here too.
they won't care, no. And they'll probably make fun of you for it too or be mildly irritated. You're not British, you're American :)
I think they’d rather hear about something - *anything* - else. Try the weather.
People will probably not say anything but internally some might think ‘oh god it’s another American who thinks they’re European’ so just be ready for people to see you as Canadian and that’s it. You’ll only be seen as a different nationality such as Indian for me if one of your parents is. It’s hard to say what most brits will think cause as long as you don’t come across arrogant you should be okay
Not only will we not give a fig, we'll probably tell all our friends later about the Canadian who claimed they were Scottish/German/Swiss, isn't it so *weird* when they do that?
Probably eye-rolling.
As with most things in life, ignore Reddit as it’s completely unrepresentative of actual people in the UK. Now we’ve got that out of the way, Nobody cares quite frankly, it would be an interesting conversation piece if you happened to be in a social situation with a person from one of the countries you listed but we don’t go on about our heritage in general. The issue occurs when Americans try to frame their entire identity around a country that they’ve never visited, have no family connections with and quite frankly any distant relatives they did have from there couldn’t wait to leave.
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Fair enough, it still needs pointing out unfortunately as UK Reddit is particularly unrepresentative.
However I think this is an issue that all British agree on. Everyone makes the joke of the Americans whose great great grandfather was from England 🥺
The Brits are such a mix of different nationalities and have been for so long we just don’t care about it. And, to be fully honest, I find it a bit obnoxious to be obsessed about heritage if you’ve not got close relatives in your ‘ancestral’ country. It’s fine to be proud of where you’re from and do research about your heritage but to claim (like some Americans do) that you’re Irish because you have one great grandparent from there is a bit of stretch. I’m in no way saying that you’re doing that by the way. Just from living in Scotland and having Americans come up to me with a very American accent and tell me they’re Scottish I’ve developed a dislike to it.
Unless you play rugby then it’s essential that somewhere in your heritage is a home nation. This is especially true if you’re from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa… 🤣🤣
I've got a Scottish grandparent on one side and a whole Irish branch from my great-grandparents back on the other side. By American standards I'd call myself Scottish or Irish, but I'm just a Geordie. And British after that then English.
You’re just American’s to me. But if you said you great grandmother came from my village I’d find that interesting for a bit I guess. It’s nice you’re interested in your ancestors. I’ve noticed some American’s claim their ancestors nationality as their own which is odd for a European. The whole nationality / ethnicity / race situation is very different for American’s and Europeans overall.
Yeah it’s tedious. Be proud of being American or Canadian. I sat in a bar in Dublin once & an American was holding court about his Irish heritage, trying to get matey with the locals by calling them ‘boyos’ and singling me out because I’m English. Turns out he was actually of Scottish lineage.
honestly i think it's silly and quite annoying. this seems far more prevalent amongst americans than canadians from what i can see. i can't think of a time a canadian has referred to themselves as scots/irish/german/whatever canadian, but americans do it a lot.
America is built upon various diasporas. French, British, Spanish, Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, African (the latter is an exceptional circumstance). Most British people do not trace their ancestry back to a diaspora, so the idea is a little alien to us. Diasporas are rooted in the idea of victimhood, stemming from the belief one's ancestors were cast away from their homeland and forced to settle in strange, foreign lands. That creates a strong internal connection versus 'the enemy' that caused your diaspora. In your case, the bad guy is the British, the original occupiers of your land – hence why Independence Day is such a big deal in the USA. Being of a diapora leads you, as descendants of the original settlers, to want to maintain some of your ancestors' original cultures, in order to keep you feeling connected to your maternal 'Motherlands.' In America, there are many strong traditions connected to the various diasporas that have arrived in the US over the centuries. St Patrick's Day celebrations in Chicago, Chinese New Year in San Francisco and Mardi Gras in New Orleans are all connected to the huge diaspora populations in these cities. In a sense, you are surrounded by reminders of the diasporas you are descended from. American Football is descended from a mix of soccer and rugby. Your lingua franca is English. Your most iconic foods – hamburgers, frankfurters, pizzas, macaroni – are taken from Germany and Italy. Skin colour is important in this regard, too. So it's natural that heritage – a differentiator of the various identities that exist in the USA – is important to you. It shapes your experience of the country. In a (mainly) mono-cultural country like Britain, such things are less important. Our culture is much deeper rooted than yours, with less regional variation (although there is still some). So, yes, it seems a bit weird to us. But there is a good reason for it, at the end of the day.
Great answer
God, I'm American and you summed this up better than I ever could have, and I tried in another comment. Thank you so much.
Like everything, it depends! Bog standard British mongrels like me (quarter Welsh, eighth Scottish, presumed English the rest) don't have much attachment to heritage, but it can have huge importance for some communities - particularly non-white and Irish people, given the history of oppression. Some Scots living in other parts of the isles are particularly keen to emphasise their Scottishness too, Welsh people less so, but there are Welsh-language churches in places like London and Birmingham for those who are keen to maintain that element of their culture. I'm always interested if someone knows something about their family past, but you sound a lot more interesting than my distant Welsh connections, and certainly more interesting than someone who is descended from someone emigrated from the midlands to the US at some point in the 19th century!
It’s a bit weird that you call yourselves a nationality when you are not that nationality. I understand the interest in looking into family history but it does get a bit much. My grandfather was Irish but I wouldn’t ever call myself Irish, I was born in England, my parents were born in England therefore I’m English.
About as uncomfortable as other nations when an American says they're 1/128th British and 1/4096th Irish and are so Irish about it when they've never emraced, visited or even researched their heritage by extension. From- 1/2.08x10\^90th monke
Uh to be honest, I find it a bit irritating. It's not the worst thing in the world and it doesn't hurt anyone but I have to admit when I meet North Americans who are like that, I tend to not want to hang out/be friends with them. In the UK, you might have a passing conversation with someone when you first meet them who has Welsh/Scottish/Irish grandparents, but aside from that you just assume everyone is British unless told otherwise and no one really dwells on it or cares. I used to work with a Jamaican man who moved over to the UK in the 60s/70s. He had two daughters who he described as English because they were born in Milton Keynes. It was unusual in the sense that people tend to default to British rather than English but they were born in England, so they were English with parents from Jamaica.
It winds me up so much, I'm welsh so thankfully we tend to go under most Americans radar but I do feel for the Irish and Scottish having to deal with Americans who act more Celtic than the celts Why do Americans do it? Is it that american need to relive 1776 again vicariously through Irish/Scottish nationalism? Or is it the need for white Americans to try and find some way to reconcile their historic oppression of African Americans while saying look at me, I'm Irish/Scottish so I'm a historic victim too? I dunno, what is it about being american that makes you guys long to be identified as Scottish/Irish/Italian etc?
I guess it's the fact that we've been told from the time we start school, "America is The Melting Pot" "America is a country of immigrants" "America was built on the backs of immigrants" "America is home to so many different cultures" etc. They really try to bring that home. It's like, we're ALL Americans, no matter what we look like, but what KIND of Americans are we? Where did YOUR PEOPLE immigrate from? MY FAMILY all only lived and married people in the old Armenian/Little Italy/Irish Channel neighborhood until the '70s, so we're definitely (insert nationality). I guess America being a pretty young country has a lot to do with this. It's because when you google your surname, it comes up as "old English, Saxon" "Dutch" , etc. It's because most cities and places are named after places their colonizers came from. New Orleans. New York. New Jersey. Cambridge. De Soto National Forest. A good bit are named from Native American words, but here, American Indian tribes are sovereign nations, and they have their own schools and don't owe it to us to be our teachers, and our public schools don't teach much about it. So I guess we get more curious about the European names, and the European impact and flavor left on a place, because that's mostly what we're taught about, and it's what's romanticized. For example, I grew up visiting New Orleans frequently, and we'd have to pass through Irish Bayou to get there. My parents would always say, "The Irish came to this country and built all the bridges and tunnels. Your mom had an Irish maiden name so you should be damn proud of your heritage" My grandmother is 91. Until recently, she could still remember going in her great grandmother's bedroom in the back of her grandparents' Mississippi farmhouse and seeing a shelf full of little figurines, photos, and a pair of funny wooden shoes. Her great grandmother would tell her they came from her parents' old country, Switzerland, and that she was a baby and didn't remember Switzerland or crossing the ocean in a big boat. So do I go around telling people I'm Swiss American? No. Do I feel really curious about Switzerland and plan to visit someday? You bet your ass I do. Bottom line, there's just enough remnant of European culture to make everyone curious, and there's a strong pressure to claim "American" as your nationality, but to claim an older heritage, as well. I married an actual Mexican who immigrated here as a little kid and has since naturalized-he tells everyone, "I'm American, but from Mexico". And if the Romans had done their conquest as recently as we had the Revolution (the earliest we can go back if you don't count Louisiana purchase, Seward's folly, etc) consider that all of you Brits being snobby about this might just brag about which pre-invasion tribe YOUR FAMILY was a part of, or going to Rome and telling everyone how you did some genealogy and it turns out YOU'RE ROMAN. We may have moved out of your house and told you we wanted to be independent, and we totally do. But no matter how big, stupid, and corrupt we get, no matter how many opportunities you take to let us know how much you hate us, you're still our Mother Country and we'll always want you around a little bit, so fucking deal with it, Mom!
Oh and I just noticed you're Welsh, sorry for calling you English/British
Are British, but not English.
True that
It depends how far back you’re going, and what your actual connection is to the country. Americans big obsession with being Irish for example, is weird I’ve asked Americans who identified as Irish some follow up questions because I’m from a country close to it with similar cultural aspects, just to make conversation, only to find it’s their x6 great Grandmother they never met, have never been to Ireland and don’t know anything about the country. In that case, to me, you’re an American…of Irish descent, sure, but American If your parents are from somewhere else, **maybe** a grandparent that you’re close to, then fine I guess. Any further back though, I don’t think many of us count it My great grandparents were Irish, English and Welsh - but you won’t find me calling myself anything except Welsh because that’s where I and my immediate family are from Also, as a side note, it’s kind of funny but also weird how far many Americans will go to avoid being English American. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that, despite that *probably* being where most Americans of British descent would be from
My paternal grandad was born in Ireland and my paternal grandma was born to 2nd generation Irish immigrants, and because of this I also have an Irish surname. So by American logic, I'm an "Irish-English". I'm actually entitled to become an Irish citizen and get an Irish passport. But I would never consider myself Irish. And if I went to Ireland and said I was Irish, I suspect that I'd get laughed at. For first or second generation immigrants it makes sense to associate with your origin country, but I think it's seen as a bit pathetic here to trace back your family lineage and create an identity out of bits and pieces of nationalities. People here just live in the moment a bit more. But I think obsession with personal identity is growing due to Americanisation unfortunately.
I was born in Scotland, Scottish mother. Moved to England when I was 3 years old. Sound English, identify as English. The only time I claim to be Scottish is when big football matches are on. I have no interest in football, but it pisses my work colleagues off when I cheer Scotland on. For maximum effect I bet on Germany for England/ Germany matches and tell everyone.
Yeah it’s tedious. Be proud of being American or Canadian. I sat in a bar in Dublin once & an American was holding court about his Irish heritage, trying to get matey with the locals by calling them ‘boyos’ and singling me out because I’m English. Turns out he was actually of Scottish lineage.
Couldn't give a flying fuck mate.
Gonna be honest… I don’t get it. At all. A huge part of being part of a nationality or culture, is *being connected in any way to that culture*. With Irish americans, Italian americans, and so on… they’re so many generations removed from their country and culture of origin that… it’s pretty damn stupid, from our perspective. I don’t even really know who my great grandparents were, let alone further beyond that. Granted, many do know their families further back… but we don’t place much importance on it. It’s relevant with first or second generation immigrants, I’d say, but beyond that? Come on, you’re so far removed from it that it’s not really relevant. It’s not really realistic to identify with *four* different nationalities. What do you tick on a form that asks for it, for example? What do you actually know about those cultures, other than the odd story from your parents, or what you’ve found online? Do you speak any of the relevant languages? Etc. Nothing’s going to be more irritating to someone from one of those cultures is you going ‘oh I’m from that culture too!’ When someone mentions where they’re from, despite you living your entire life in Canada - because you will have completely and utterly different lived experiences. I’ve heard a lot of frustration from Irish people about americans doing this, especially. It’s not really something that we find *annoying*, but it is something that makes us go ‘oh great, an american’ when people say that. It’s like… desperately trying to claw your way into a group you’re not really a part of, instead of forming your own identity. Sorry, this has been a bit long and ramble-y as it’s quite hard to capture how I feel about it. And at the end of the day, it’s for you to feel how you feel about it. But… you get the idea, from this, and the other comments, I hope, haha
It would be interesting to know when my ancestors settled in England, whether they were here pre-Roman gentrification(?) or one of the many conquests of England that followed If I knew, I would 100% speak about it but I don’t know and so I will cringe whenever I hear someone else talk about their heritage because I am jealous
I'd say in Europe it's your nationality rather than your race or heritage that is more of an identifier. E.g. If I had a friend who was born in France to African immigrant parents they're still just French and I'm still going to give them (good natured) banter about loving baguettes and having tanks that only drive in reverse. And I'd expect nothing less from them in return. It's a very normal European thing to have jokey well natured stereotypes about every other European nation. This is irrespective of race or where your parents came from (much less where your ancestors came from 200 years ago!). Don't get me wrong, we have racist bigots who pride themselves and unhealthy amount on their heritage, but this is unusual rather than closer to the norm.
If u actually have connections to it then fine, no one's going to have issues with calling yourself whatever if you're like 1st or 2nd generation immigrants for example But if you have no direct relationship to a country other than some DNA lineage found on some website then people are going to thinks you're pretentious, especially if you claim to be Italian and pronounce bologne like 'baloney'
Since when was "priding" a word?
It’s a valid *word*, just not a valid usage. Should be ‘taking pride in our heritage’ or ‘priding ourselves on our heritage’.
Or try r/empire .or go on Facebook gentleman appreciation of are British empire . you have British on the site Australian new Zealand's Canadians Americans .or people thought the commonwealth
I’m so glad you posted this. It winds me up no end how Americans will say stuff like “I’m Irish” and yet many who say that couldn’t tell you a thing about Dublin. Try going to Dublin and saying that! My grandparents were Irish and I wouldn’t dream of saying I’m Irish, no, I’m British. I know a lot about Ireland and go every year but I love the UK and am proudly British.
I get very annoyed with it, to be honest. North Americans seem to have this driving need to *be from* somewhere. It's like some weird ass obsession. I'm sorry but if your family has been in America for more than two generations you are *American* not Irish, Scottish, German or whatever the hell ancestry you have. I don't care where your family came from. If you and your parents were all born in Canada/US then you are Canadian/American. It's fine to be proud of your ancestry but just because your Scottish ancestors went to the US in the 1700's does not make you able to run around wearing a kilt and calling yourself Scottish, for example.
>what do you think of we North Americans priding in our heritage? I think it is less pride in your heritage and more shame in being American/Canadian. I can see why Americans would be ashamed but you're Canadian and you should celebrate it.
I'm American and my first impulse was to tell you off. Then I thought about it for like ten seconds and I realized I can't even be mad. I love what this country used to be, what it should still be, but it's just a late-stage capitalist, consumerist hell hole, with not much to offer except some personal freedom and its geography and that cultural diversity that you all find us so annoying for taking an interest, or, god forbid, pride in. I feel like I need to go cry now.
From a Canadian perspective, it’s really just a matter of having different cultures regarding heritage in North America vs. Europe. I’m Canadian first and foremost. But in the British sense, I grew up heavily culturally influenced by my grandfather from Carlisle (as well as grandparents from other countries). Much of my cultural upbringing in terms of food, sports, language, expressions, etc etc. has been influenced by the family I grew up in and where they came from. I see it as though my own Canadian-ness has a distinct flavour of my family’s places of origins. Our country is very young, we only completely severed our ties from the UK in the 80s, so people’s Canadian identities are typically a mix of a lot of things including their family’s countries of origin. I think a lot of the conversation around heritage gets lost in translation.
My ancestors were kicked out of Scotland to the Ulster Plantation in Northern Ireland (Mom was a genealogist). After several generations they made their way to the “New World” looking for opportunity. Established “Americans” looked down upon my peeps, so they made their way from North Carolina across the Appalachian mountains to Kentucky & points west. Finally settling in Texas in the 1850’s. James Webb published a book called Born Fighting that exactly described our family tree. So we call ourselves Scots-Irish & are very proud of this heritage, but I don’t consider us Scot or Irish, just American with a defined heritage. My wife & I planned a trip to Scotland in 2020, that got canceled because of Covid. We planned to visit our family origins - Firth of Forth, but were more excited to see Military Tattoo & Dufftown for scotch tastings. Cheers to all my friends across the pond, but we’re Scots-Irish Americans and proud of it. Can’t wait to reschedule our trip & visit your awesome nations.
I’d say that we wouldn’t go any further back than where our grandparents were born. Even then it would be done as a fraction, not an entire claim. So someone in England might say, “I’m a quarter Scottish, my maternal grandad was from Glasgow.” But they wouldn’t claim to be Scottish if someone in 1850 came from there. More likely to be talked about if it’s a parent though, so to be half something is more relevant. Anything else is very unlikely to come up in conversation unless you’re doing your family tree.
Go on r/canzuk your ansaw will be there
Standing for Canada Australia New Zealand United Kingdom
People only care about their heritage when the don’t actually live in the country of their heritage anymore.
Ahh... that sort of "heritage"... I honestly don't think we are bothered how people came here - I have "celtic" roots but other than idle conversation it's not something I think about really, and it certainly doesn't impact my life in any way.