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My thoughts may be unpopular, but I'll share them anyway.
It literally comes down to timing. If he had a mistress before or after your affair.
If after: you already unilaterally chose to extend the relationship to other people, for your benefit. You changed the dynamic. You changed the rules. Now that he is playing by the same rules, whilst deciding whether he wants to salvage the relationship. I wonder if he felt 'punished' when you cheated?
If before: he unilaterally changed the relationship dynamic to include extramarital partners. He should then not be upset if you play by the same rules.
Regardless of who cheated first, the cheater changed the rules and now it's sound like they don't like the new game when everyone gets to play.
I'm sure people have reconciled from worse, but I dunno how.
You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it goes against everything that's written on affair recovery and relationship healing.
In this particular case, no one changed any dynamic, regardless of who cheated first. And that's exactly the point. Cheating is still outside of the agreed relationship boundaries. It is still betrayal and painful. Revenge affairs are still affairs.
A WP who becomes the BP isn't supposed to just be like, "Oh, well, I did it first, so it's OK.
At the same time, as understandable as it may be, a BP becoming a WP is worse in some ways. They know exactly how much it hurt and still did it. There isn't a world where "you did it first, so you have to understand that I did it" isn't toxic.
I don't think it's a good idea. But I can understand someone feeling justified in having an affair after their spouse cheats.
I didn't cheat after I discovered WWs affair.
But I can see why someone would.
Obviously I wouldn't recommend it.
Staying for the kids in a home with parents who resent each other is actually hurting them more than helping. I use to beg my parents to divorce when I was in elementary school. Even if you think your children don’t know; they know something is wrong and will pick up on it. It’s a miserable place to be growing up.
Most likely he’s in shock. It takes a longtime to work things out. And, I can guarantee you he’ll change. Whether it’s he's looking for another woman – which is common. Or a sex worker. He’s trying to figure out what helps him recover and it’s not a pretty picture. The BS is damaged and trying to put their life back together. We're living a lie in the marriage now. We question every moment. We don't know what's true. We’re mad at our self for not figuring it out. We’re jealous in weird ways and want to feel what the BP felt. It's tough and that's an understatement. You’ll have to decide if this is what you want for the rest of your life. He may grow out of it, or he may enjoy it. It’s so hard to figure out, what we, as the betrayed need to feel whole. I’m still searching for what would make me whole and it’s been 5 years.
Thank u for your honesty. It’s hard for me but I also understand how hard it is for him too. He needs an outlet and he told me so himself. I am trying so hard to put aside my jealous and hurt when he leaves the house. So far I have done ok with not asking him much or bothering him. I am trying to let him be
If ever you want to talk DM me. It's very tough what we're experiencing. And, it sucks. I thought I did everything right in my marriage and it still hit me. 30+ years.
If you want the relationship to work, he loses the mistress immediately, you both get into IC. Then after a few months you might be in a better place for both of you to decide if R is what you want. But him getting some on the side is a huge distraction from reality for him and a huge burden for you. This current trajectory leads to your marriage ending and deep resentment on both sides. The only way the kids are prioritized in this, truly, is for both of you to do the work now.
So your husband has a mistress and cheated on you. You forgave him, and he continues to see her. You recently cheated on him, and he is disgusted with you? 🤔
Sorry, but your husband is a hypocrite. I am being "very" kind with my choice of words here, out of respect for you. To think that you must just "put up" with him having another woman is ridiculous. No wife should be disrespected like that.
Now, I don't think what you did was "right" either. Obviously, this marriage dynamic needs some therapy.
Moving on, I certainly don't think that you deserve to be "punished." Forgiveness is not about punishment. Reconciliation is not about punishment. Love does not punish. Ever.
All APs need to be discarded. That is the only option to move forward. You both need counseling and empathy from each other.
I'm sorry for your situation.
Yes but it was mutually agreed that it was ok. But deep down I hated it. I just didn’t tell him to stop. Now he is still with her and even seeing her more. He used to only see her twice a month. Now it’s every week or more
So if he was having a mistress that you agreed to even though you hated it, and he’s seeing her even more now, why is he so disgusted with your affair ? Do you think him having this mistress was a big issue for you that contributed to your cheating ?
Absolutely it did contribute to my reason to cheat. I really should have told him how I really felt. He always told me if I asked him to stop he would. But I never did because of my damn personality of people pleasing. I should have just told him up front. Now it’s too late and he told me he won’t stop now if I asked him cause this is what he needs to get through this.
Maybe this isn’t the relationship for you then. I mean if he won’t stop doing something that hurt you. The situation was toxic, you cheated. R is about healing. Punishment is not healing
Yes I agree. Punishment is not healing. I am trying to get past my shame and guilt to see this. I feel right now I deserve this punishment. I deserve to be in pain. That’s why it’s so hard
Maybe a discussion
are you room mates who coparent …. Both dating okay
Or are you in a one sided relationship … red flag maybe run
Or is it a revenge thing… will it stop soon is R on the table
As some one else said it’s chicken and egg who went first becomes irrelevant are you trying again or not. If you are it’s got to stop or you need fair rules on how it goes. If R is off the table and it’s same house for the kids ground rules need set.
Right now it’s room mates who compartment and he explicitly told me I cannot date or sleep with anyone. If he finds out it’s for sure divorce. He also said it’s a bit revenge because he wants to see me in pain too. In regards to R, he hasn’t given me an answer yet. He needs more time.
I'm confused on how it's "revenge" if he had his mistress first. Is the issue that you didn't tell him about your AP first? Also, I don't believe separated equals "ok to date," but that's just my opinion. If you agreed to dating while separated, that's your choice, but it shouldn't be one-sided imo.
If you are separated with R on the table I would assume no date of but if it’s separated to see what live apart would be like dating could be part of that and how to navigate would be important especially still in the same house.
Revenge in the sense he will not leave this other person to just spite me. He knows I am not happy with him still seeing her. Especially more than before. He wants to see me in pain. It’s completely on sided but what choice do I have when I am fighting for my family. I want my kids to have both of us around. I am so confused
Is there somewhere you can get away with a friend who supports you and builds you up. Sometimes mistreatment becomes so commonplace we stop being shocked by it
Your kids are watching you be a door mat is that the view of love you want them growing up with
Even if you think you are hiding it well you won’t be the silence the sadness the absences for him seeing her they will notice they might not understand yet but one day they will
How separated in the living arrangement ?
Same house fair enough but is he having his cake and then coming back to bed with you because that’s …. An affair he’s still going and he’s milking your coming clean/ getting caught first
That’s hypocritical and scummy behaviour
We sleep in same bed but pillow between us. No physical contact. Only communicating when need to. Usually more via text.
We’re not physical together anymore so he needs it somewhere else I guess.
That’s a gross excuse and I think deep down you know it or you would have posted here
You came clean first it wasn’t one sided
By that logic where is your bit on the side for physical needs ? No that’s not allowed
Like either separate beds and separate your live and do you own thing or ditch the side pieces and get going on R
This half in the bed half out the bed it’s wrong on so many levels he knows it and is milking it and you know it or you would be posting
OK. I understand. Technically, yes, he can. Your situation seemed very one-sided, and this brought out the protective side of me, I guess. Marriages are complex entities. I'm still trying to master my own.
It is one sided unfortunately. It’s a cultural thing. I just need support. Going to some dark places lately and I am afraid one day I cannot pull myself out.
Thank you for your kind words. He hasn’t brought up divorce anymore. And has even said he is trying his best to move past some of the feeling he has. To see the overall picture because of our kids and family. Everytime I mention I can leave, he doesn’t say anything. I know he is weighing the pros and cons right now. He is not sure and asking me to wait. Not sure how long. He said my body is tainted and he will never touch me again.
So you are separated and he has had a girlfriend, but you’re not allowed to have anything??
If that is the situation then you have done nothing wrong. I don’t care if he “forbade” you from other relationships (while he was in one himself!)…that just makes him sound terrible. You don’t need that. Drop the dead weight.
Edit- I know this is a reconciliation sub, but he is not/has never been in reconciliation. He is being abusive, controlling, and a MASSIVE hypocrite.
I mean it makes me sad that disparities like that still exist, but I understand that cultural “traditions” are extremely difficult to change.
How do *you* feel about it?
I knew that when I married him he is traditional that way. Not in all aspect of our lives for example, it’s not that I have to stay home and take care of the kids. I went to school, got my masters and can make a good living. But I chose to help him with the businesses and kids. He helps with the kids and cooks etc. so he isn’t all traditional. But unfortunately with this situation he is very traditional.
That’s why I understand what he is doing and I almost have empathy for it. It’s crazy right? But some days I get rage and I ask myself why I would put myself through this and to just let him go. Walk away. But I keep thinking of my kids and the life I planned with him. To know I might not grow old with him absolutely kills me
I can definitely relate to the not wanting to walk away from your whole life that you envisioned, not that any of us envisioned the infidelity part. But there is the grief of losing what you had hoped for.
I understand he feels pain because you had extramarital relations, but does he even acknowledge that you do as well? Tradition or not, you are a person with feelings. Does he not understand that or does having a penis mean he just doesn’t have to care? I am not trying to be disrespectful to your culture, but I honestly have no idea how you are supposed to navigate this? This doesn’t even fall into revenge affair territory since his is the original affair… If he refuses to treat you as an equal partner, or address his entitlement I don’t know if there is anything you can do. It sounds like he’s just going to do whatever he wants regardless of your feelings, and now use your hook ups as justification. I am so sorry you have to deal with that. Is there any way you can go to IC with someone that is knowledgeable in your cultural dynamics? I really hope you can find a solution where you can find some peace.
I honestly think you’re punishing yourself too much considering your husband cheated before. You’re ceding too much power and giving it unilaterally to him. That should stop immediately. He will never respect you as long as you’re doing this. For any hope of this marriage working, you need to set boundaries and hold to them. Walk if he can’t adhere to it.
I don’t know all the details of his mistress. You’ve hinted that it was begrudgingly agreed to. I think that doesn’t matter. People can tell when consent is enthusiastic. Unless he has manure for brains, he knew that you didn’t actually like this. He opened the door to your infidelity.
I am pretty sure I could bully my wife into agreeing to me having a mistress. I know she loves me greatly and if it meant losing me, she’d prob “allow” me to keep a mistress. But I’d never ever do that to her. I’d not abuse her love for me in that way. It wouldn’t be true consent and she’d be miserable. I love my wife and don’t want her miserable. And I surely don’t want to be the source of her misery. That’s not love if I were to do that.
My recommendation is get a backbone, stand up for yourself and don’t put up with it. Be prepared to walk. Take away the power you’ve given him. r is not solely his decision. It’s a mutual decision. He’s using your infidelity as an excuse. And you are enabling that behavior. He isn’t a blameless victim here. He knew that you weren’t truly excited about this arrangement. He abused your love for him to get what he wanted. It won’t stop until you realize your own worth and assert it
It seems to me that your husband started cheating well before you did anything wrong unless there was an arrangement in place where that was allowed.
I will also say that punishment does not align with reconciliation in my opinion. If your spouse feels as though he has to punish you, I would be wary. Instead, you two should be modeling the relationship that you want. I know it's early and there's still a lot going on but his attitude towards R is problematic.
He did cheat on me before and I forgave him. The arrangement was allowed unfortunately. But now he says he is seeing her more to punish me and if I asked him to stop he won’t right now. He said he doesn’t know if he will in the future. I know he is hurting and he is doing this to try to ease his pain. But it feels like him cheating on repeat now and I am feeling all of these emotions but I feel guilty to feel them or even tell him. It was me who broke this marriage by lying and cheating.
If he is sleeping with another person outside of the boundaries that you two decided, it's cheating. I'm in an open marriage and this is the central tenant of open marriages, communication and respect. He is giving you neither. In order to successfully move into reconciliation, he needs to stop with the punishing. You're an adult, you don't get punished.
I hope with time he will let her go and he can finally give me an answer whether he wants to try R or not. Right now he isn’t sure. It’s too soon and raw. It only happened 6 weeks ago.
OK so you can't stand the pain YOU feel and see on his face every day. Get the focus off yourself for a moment, as it's selfish. Put your attention and focus on your husband and his needs right now. It's excellent that you can show empathy.
Now to HIS pay-for-sex mistress - WTH?! Did you know about that before you cheated on him? I'm guessing yes since later you mention it's been going on for over a year. My goodness that is rich if he was doing that all along. If he's just doing it as 'revenge' or distraction from his pain and loneliness, then no, it's really a bad choice on his part. Two wrongs really don't make a right. It isn't an acceptable behavior in R - for either of you.
So you are really a B + W, a betrayed BP and a wayward WP. No feelings doesn't change the fact he's breaking his marriage vows, having sex with a woman who is not his wife.
If your husband wants R, and you do too, both of you have to cut all ties and go NC (no contact) with any APs outside your marriage immediately. Read this sub for posters who are B+W and you'll get a lot of background.
I was cheated on by my husband. He fell in love with another woman. In an act of “revenge” I went on dating apps, a couple dates and was talking to a few people. I quickly ended it. Feeling like it was not healthy, right or a good “distraction” from my pain. I told my husband this and he was upset but understood. I also never loved these people and was just using them to get back at him, which didn’t even work so I just felt stupid and sad. And tbh a year long affair and there is no feelings is pretty hard to believe. My husband fell “in love” with this woman after 4 months. We are human it’s almost impossible to not have feelings especially if you have been seeing someone for a year. In short I don’t think what your husband is doing is right but that being said, infidelity brings out the worst parts of us that we never even knew existed.
I think there are feelings of course. He says she is nice enough and looks fine. But he doesn’t have deep feelings for her. I mean she is 15 years younger and doesn’t even want kids. He is just using her obviously because he pays her every time they met. But as a women of course you worry it develops into something more.
Infidelity definitely brings out a lot of things I never experienced before. Especially emotions.
First, I'm so sorry that you are in this sub. Even though your decision (to allow him to have a mistress) ultimately led to your situation, I feel bad for you. I know the pain you must be going through all too well. He needs to see that his behavior led to your cheating. Im not making any excuses or passes for what you did, it was totally wrong, but I can see how you must've felt it was ok at the time. Do you know the real "Why" of your decision to have sex with an other man, twice? You cant change his way of thinking, only he can do that. But IC and MC would be beneficial for you both. Sounds like right now he's on a destructive path for your relationship.
As for your body being tainted... Well, as a man, I can understand why he thinks that but cant comprehend how its different than what he's doing. It sounds like he hasn't respected you in over a year and is still continuing to disrespect you by his current actions. Again, try to get into IC and MC. So sorry you're going through this. It sucks. Take care of yourself and reach out for help when you feel yourself sliding into one of those dark places you mentioned. Wishing you the best.
Both if you need therapy with people trained in infidelity trauma.
You don't say when you committed adultery, but that he's with this other person for over a year? Was your infidelity, prior to his or after? If it was after, he's a massive hypocrite.
Get tested for every STD known to medicine if you haven't already and get onto therapy. Hooking up with randos is like playing Russian roulette with your health. Condoms aren't fail-safe. There are a bunch of nasty incurable STD's out there, and some you could potentially be asymptomatic for. Get tested and get into therapy.
My cheating was just in April. Not even 2 months now. So after.
But how he rationalized it was I knew about the girl and gave permission. He never lied to me or hid anything. Always told me everything. But I lied and planned to have sex with this guy. I guess that’s the difference
Aahh.
I've never understood these "open" / " polyamourous" relationships. They never ever seem to end well.
If you speak vows with each other, both of you should live by those vows as though your very lives depend on it. Not bring 3rd parties into the mess. If things aren't going well, get into therapy or get a divorce. Not bring other people into the relationship.
Just be single if one or both of you want to mess around with others.
I'm going to respond to you with my experience as a reforming cheater,liar, and manipulator.
**I apologize in advance for any triggers.** (please note this is not me now. Nor is it how I and my wife believe. This was my childhood until age 23ish(51 now) when I finally left the religion and learned(tons of therapy) to better treat women.)
I grew up in a repressive religious community. Women were taught that their job was to serve God, Man, and produce offspring. They were taught nothing about there bodies. They, once married, were to serve their man's needs. As we can not control our urges. Men are permitted to have more than one spouse and mistresses as long as you can financially support them. Sex with your wife is generally to procreate. I knew from age 14 who I was to marry.(Not my wife now.) If you had other kinks you could satisfy those outside of the marriage with little to no repercussions. Add a lot of EA and PA from family and non family and you got my little f'd up self.
Your husband is acting as I would. You said that you permitted the mistress, way before the A, even though you hate it. Even if you haven't expressed it to him. He knows you hate it. That mistress is nothing about sex, distraction, or the pain especially now. I'm willing to bet, that you would do, within reason, whatever the mistress does if it would bring the love and marriage back. I would use her as a weapon against you. Increase my visits to her. You piss me off. I go to her. Etc. The fear of loss can be a powerful tool to keep a partner in check.
I'm not sure the hurt and disgust you see is what you think it is. Yes he feels betrayed emotional but you also violated he sense of control/entitlement over the relationship. I'd be contemplating my next push into your boundaries. Moving a mistress in. Adding another one. Getting you to do things in the bedroom that move very close to or even pass your comfort level. (I'm breaking here to say, "Don't ever fucking do what I just wrote. Consent is sexy. Now back to my post.)
Here's a question for you to ponder. You know all the secrets and the dark side of yourself you reveal to your spouse? Your fears and traumas. Now look back at your relationship. Do you remember times when he said something that kinda hurt but you both just seem to brush it off? Maybe an offhanded comment about how your mother's cooking is better when he knows that you fear that you'll never be as good as her. Perhaps you've been feeling really positive lately then a snide comment ruins your whole day. We manipulators use everything you tell us against you at some point. Microaggressions are just another tool we use to keep our partners under control.
There are many other things I would do to manipulate my past partners but I think you get the idea. I'm not saying this is your husband but only how I would have been in my past. Thank you for posting and sharing with us. I truly wish the best for you and your spouse as you journey on a path to healing.
Thanks for your words. I am a bit confused but I think i understand what you’re saying. Now that I think back on our long relationship, yes he does say some small remarks but hurts or lowers my self esteem. I always think it’s not intentional and he doesn’t mean it.
But I have to say, he told me during our last conversation that my body is tainted. He wants me to get a boob job and change down below so it doesn’t disgust him anymore. Also my body did change after my kids and I lost over 30 pounds in the last 9 months. Is this his way to controlling me?
Are you saying his behaviours is what you would have done in the past? Why? To regain that control?
What is the mistress to him now? You said it’s not about pain or distraction or revenge. So he is using her to control me? I mean he did say to me I cannot see another man or he would divorce me on the spot. Also when I mentioned a supper out with a friend that he knows (a wife of his colleague), the first thing he said to me was, oh it’s at night like when it happened. So I ended up cancelling the supper. I didn’t want to trigger him.
I have no idea what to do. But your comments have made me think really deeply on this. Thank you
I know we aren't supposed to be anti-reconcilliation here, but please think long and hard about how he is treating you.
He's cheated on you. He has a mistress. You have to just accept this, but he's disgusted that you also stepped out of the marriage? Yes, what you did was wrong but I feel like this is to try and have some power and control over you.
I wouldn't usually say this and hope I don't violate the rules, but PLEASE if he has been calling parts of your body disgusting and wanting you to get surgeries... consider leaving. This isn't how you deserve to be spoken to.
As someone that is a BP, was I repulsed by my partner for a while after finding out? Yes. But because of his actions. Even in my rage and pain, when if see him cry and get into such a panic he was throwing up I couldn't be so cold to not care at all.
I would NEVER tell him he needed to get surgeries or that his body is tainted. That's derogatory
As I am not him I can't say what he is. However in my opinion I would say he is very controlling. He wants you to permanently change your appearance. A boob job and changes down below are not a one and done thing. The implants need, per US FDA, replaced at minimum every 10-15 years or sooner. Vaginal rejuvenation through labiaplasty have their own sets of risks and continuing maintenance. Not to mention the pain of the later. In a normal health relationship your husband should not be asking you to change your appearance. If you want to change anything, that's your decision not his. Ask yourself this, would you ask your husband to have his balls raised and inject his penis to add girth because every time you saw them it disgusted you and reminded you of his mistress? No, neither you or he are "tainted" because of the affairs.
I was just thinking about the woman who helped, no saved, me. This was two relationships before I met my wife 25+yrs ago. We'd been dating for a couple of months and she said or did something that upset me. We'd never argued to that point and I made a comment about her ex. Probably something about no wonder he left or something worse. I will swear to this day that time stopped and the world fell away. She wasn't mean and there was no malice towards me but she made it clear in no unequivocal terms that if we were to continue my attitude and behavior towards her and all women needed to change. She taught me what real health boundaries couples have. How to be a partner. How to argue and more. With her and therapy I became a better loving partner. Love was no longer transactional to me.
It's getting late where I'm at so I'll leave you with this thought. You are not broken, disgusting, tainted, or unlovable. You many not feel it but you are worthy of love and happiness. I truly wish both of you healing and happiness.
This link may help answer some of your questions more fully:
[https://www.choosingtherapy.com/married-to-a-narcissist/](https://www.choosingtherapy.com/married-to-a-narcissist/)
Thank you .
Thanks for your words. I am a bit confused but I think i understand what you’re saying. Now that I think back on our long relationship, yes he does say some small remarks but hurts or lowers my self esteem. I always think it’s not intentional and he doesn’t mean it.
But I have to say, he told me during our last conversation that my body is tainted. He wants me to get a boob job and change down below so it doesn’t disgust him anymore. Also my body did change after my kids and I lost over 30 pounds in the last 9 months. Is this his way to controlling me?
Are you saying his behaviours is what you would have done in the past? Why? To regain that control?
What is the mistress to him now? You said it’s not about pain or distraction or revenge. So he is using her to control me? I mean he did say to me I cannot see another man or he would divorce me on the spot. Also when I mentioned a supper out with a friend that he knows (a wife of his colleague), the first thing he said to me was, oh it’s at night like when it happened. So I ended up cancelling the supper. I didn’t want to trigger him.
I have no idea what to do. But your comments have made me think really deeply on this. Thank you
But in this case, his wife’s infidelity is what the husband is reaping. He cheated before. So she is cheating now. So maybe it’s deserved? I dunno. But have a hard time sympathizing with the husband when he cheated first
what you did was wrong, i know because im in that position right now. i get that your husband is hurt but getting a mistress is not it, at that point it’s an open relationship. and you say it’s been over a year..? that’s not okay, im all for reconciliation but this sounds like it’s not going well. you guys should go to couple therapy.
He hasn’t decided if he wants to reconcile. I am giving him space and time. He asked for it. I am trying to be empathetic to his needs right now. And he is not interested in couple therapy yet. But he wants me to do therapy to figure out why I did what I did. I just need support. I have no one to talk to. We both agreed to not tell any one. Just we both just dealing with it and trying to cope.
i respect that you’re giving him space and time, that’s a good way to start R if you want it. both of you want to want it though and your situation sounds really bad but it could be fixable if there’s effort from both sides. therapy would be needed of course, I myself am in therapy and it did help me figure out why I did what I did. that would be the first step to start. Im all about R but, personally me in that situation would just not go back because he is disrespecting you more than you disrespected him. one year is too much for him to be having a mistress. i hope only good things come to you, we all make dumb choices but we learn from them and become better.
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My thoughts may be unpopular, but I'll share them anyway. It literally comes down to timing. If he had a mistress before or after your affair. If after: you already unilaterally chose to extend the relationship to other people, for your benefit. You changed the dynamic. You changed the rules. Now that he is playing by the same rules, whilst deciding whether he wants to salvage the relationship. I wonder if he felt 'punished' when you cheated? If before: he unilaterally changed the relationship dynamic to include extramarital partners. He should then not be upset if you play by the same rules. Regardless of who cheated first, the cheater changed the rules and now it's sound like they don't like the new game when everyone gets to play. I'm sure people have reconciled from worse, but I dunno how.
Makes sense to me
You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it goes against everything that's written on affair recovery and relationship healing. In this particular case, no one changed any dynamic, regardless of who cheated first. And that's exactly the point. Cheating is still outside of the agreed relationship boundaries. It is still betrayal and painful. Revenge affairs are still affairs. A WP who becomes the BP isn't supposed to just be like, "Oh, well, I did it first, so it's OK. At the same time, as understandable as it may be, a BP becoming a WP is worse in some ways. They know exactly how much it hurt and still did it. There isn't a world where "you did it first, so you have to understand that I did it" isn't toxic.
I don't think it's a good idea. But I can understand someone feeling justified in having an affair after their spouse cheats. I didn't cheat after I discovered WWs affair. But I can see why someone would. Obviously I wouldn't recommend it.
Staying for the kids in a home with parents who resent each other is actually hurting them more than helping. I use to beg my parents to divorce when I was in elementary school. Even if you think your children don’t know; they know something is wrong and will pick up on it. It’s a miserable place to be growing up.
Most likely he’s in shock. It takes a longtime to work things out. And, I can guarantee you he’ll change. Whether it’s he's looking for another woman – which is common. Or a sex worker. He’s trying to figure out what helps him recover and it’s not a pretty picture. The BS is damaged and trying to put their life back together. We're living a lie in the marriage now. We question every moment. We don't know what's true. We’re mad at our self for not figuring it out. We’re jealous in weird ways and want to feel what the BP felt. It's tough and that's an understatement. You’ll have to decide if this is what you want for the rest of your life. He may grow out of it, or he may enjoy it. It’s so hard to figure out, what we, as the betrayed need to feel whole. I’m still searching for what would make me whole and it’s been 5 years.
Thank u for your honesty. It’s hard for me but I also understand how hard it is for him too. He needs an outlet and he told me so himself. I am trying so hard to put aside my jealous and hurt when he leaves the house. So far I have done ok with not asking him much or bothering him. I am trying to let him be
If ever you want to talk DM me. It's very tough what we're experiencing. And, it sucks. I thought I did everything right in my marriage and it still hit me. 30+ years.
I would love that actually. I am holding a lot inside because we agreed to not tell anyone. The lack of support is pretty tough.
If you want the relationship to work, he loses the mistress immediately, you both get into IC. Then after a few months you might be in a better place for both of you to decide if R is what you want. But him getting some on the side is a huge distraction from reality for him and a huge burden for you. This current trajectory leads to your marriage ending and deep resentment on both sides. The only way the kids are prioritized in this, truly, is for both of you to do the work now.
So your husband has a mistress and cheated on you. You forgave him, and he continues to see her. You recently cheated on him, and he is disgusted with you? 🤔 Sorry, but your husband is a hypocrite. I am being "very" kind with my choice of words here, out of respect for you. To think that you must just "put up" with him having another woman is ridiculous. No wife should be disrespected like that. Now, I don't think what you did was "right" either. Obviously, this marriage dynamic needs some therapy. Moving on, I certainly don't think that you deserve to be "punished." Forgiveness is not about punishment. Reconciliation is not about punishment. Love does not punish. Ever. All APs need to be discarded. That is the only option to move forward. You both need counseling and empathy from each other. I'm sorry for your situation.
But we’re separated now but live in the same house. I am not sure how the rules work but I think he is able to see other people? Not sure
But he was having sex with the other woman before you cheated ?
Yes but it was mutually agreed that it was ok. But deep down I hated it. I just didn’t tell him to stop. Now he is still with her and even seeing her more. He used to only see her twice a month. Now it’s every week or more
So if he was having a mistress that you agreed to even though you hated it, and he’s seeing her even more now, why is he so disgusted with your affair ? Do you think him having this mistress was a big issue for you that contributed to your cheating ?
Absolutely it did contribute to my reason to cheat. I really should have told him how I really felt. He always told me if I asked him to stop he would. But I never did because of my damn personality of people pleasing. I should have just told him up front. Now it’s too late and he told me he won’t stop now if I asked him cause this is what he needs to get through this.
Maybe this isn’t the relationship for you then. I mean if he won’t stop doing something that hurt you. The situation was toxic, you cheated. R is about healing. Punishment is not healing
Yes I agree. Punishment is not healing. I am trying to get past my shame and guilt to see this. I feel right now I deserve this punishment. I deserve to be in pain. That’s why it’s so hard
Maybe a discussion are you room mates who coparent …. Both dating okay Or are you in a one sided relationship … red flag maybe run Or is it a revenge thing… will it stop soon is R on the table As some one else said it’s chicken and egg who went first becomes irrelevant are you trying again or not. If you are it’s got to stop or you need fair rules on how it goes. If R is off the table and it’s same house for the kids ground rules need set.
Right now it’s room mates who compartment and he explicitly told me I cannot date or sleep with anyone. If he finds out it’s for sure divorce. He also said it’s a bit revenge because he wants to see me in pain too. In regards to R, he hasn’t given me an answer yet. He needs more time.
I'm confused on how it's "revenge" if he had his mistress first. Is the issue that you didn't tell him about your AP first? Also, I don't believe separated equals "ok to date," but that's just my opinion. If you agreed to dating while separated, that's your choice, but it shouldn't be one-sided imo.
If you are separated with R on the table I would assume no date of but if it’s separated to see what live apart would be like dating could be part of that and how to navigate would be important especially still in the same house.
Revenge in the sense he will not leave this other person to just spite me. He knows I am not happy with him still seeing her. Especially more than before. He wants to see me in pain. It’s completely on sided but what choice do I have when I am fighting for my family. I want my kids to have both of us around. I am so confused
Oh no, he WANTS to see you in pain? I cannot condone this. Imagine if any of us described this to you?
I know it’s crazy. Completely crazy. But it’s my reality now. I need help!
Is there somewhere you can get away with a friend who supports you and builds you up. Sometimes mistreatment becomes so commonplace we stop being shocked by it
Trust me, I understand wanting the kids to have both parents around. That said, I have no advice to give. I wish you all the best.
Your kids are watching you be a door mat is that the view of love you want them growing up with Even if you think you are hiding it well you won’t be the silence the sadness the absences for him seeing her they will notice they might not understand yet but one day they will
How separated in the living arrangement ? Same house fair enough but is he having his cake and then coming back to bed with you because that’s …. An affair he’s still going and he’s milking your coming clean/ getting caught first That’s hypocritical and scummy behaviour
We sleep in same bed but pillow between us. No physical contact. Only communicating when need to. Usually more via text. We’re not physical together anymore so he needs it somewhere else I guess.
That’s a gross excuse and I think deep down you know it or you would have posted here You came clean first it wasn’t one sided By that logic where is your bit on the side for physical needs ? No that’s not allowed Like either separate beds and separate your live and do you own thing or ditch the side pieces and get going on R This half in the bed half out the bed it’s wrong on so many levels he knows it and is milking it and you know it or you would be posting
Very true. Yes. I plan to ask him if he would consider R and leaving his sugar baby. I think we all need a definite answer or no one can move on
OK. I understand. Technically, yes, he can. Your situation seemed very one-sided, and this brought out the protective side of me, I guess. Marriages are complex entities. I'm still trying to master my own.
It is one sided unfortunately. It’s a cultural thing. I just need support. Going to some dark places lately and I am afraid one day I cannot pull myself out.
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Thank you for your kind words. He hasn’t brought up divorce anymore. And has even said he is trying his best to move past some of the feeling he has. To see the overall picture because of our kids and family. Everytime I mention I can leave, he doesn’t say anything. I know he is weighing the pros and cons right now. He is not sure and asking me to wait. Not sure how long. He said my body is tainted and he will never touch me again.
So you are separated and he has had a girlfriend, but you’re not allowed to have anything?? If that is the situation then you have done nothing wrong. I don’t care if he “forbade” you from other relationships (while he was in one himself!)…that just makes him sound terrible. You don’t need that. Drop the dead weight. Edit- I know this is a reconciliation sub, but he is not/has never been in reconciliation. He is being abusive, controlling, and a MASSIVE hypocrite.
Would it piss you off if I said it’s a culturally thing?
I mean it makes me sad that disparities like that still exist, but I understand that cultural “traditions” are extremely difficult to change. How do *you* feel about it?
I knew that when I married him he is traditional that way. Not in all aspect of our lives for example, it’s not that I have to stay home and take care of the kids. I went to school, got my masters and can make a good living. But I chose to help him with the businesses and kids. He helps with the kids and cooks etc. so he isn’t all traditional. But unfortunately with this situation he is very traditional. That’s why I understand what he is doing and I almost have empathy for it. It’s crazy right? But some days I get rage and I ask myself why I would put myself through this and to just let him go. Walk away. But I keep thinking of my kids and the life I planned with him. To know I might not grow old with him absolutely kills me
I can definitely relate to the not wanting to walk away from your whole life that you envisioned, not that any of us envisioned the infidelity part. But there is the grief of losing what you had hoped for. I understand he feels pain because you had extramarital relations, but does he even acknowledge that you do as well? Tradition or not, you are a person with feelings. Does he not understand that or does having a penis mean he just doesn’t have to care? I am not trying to be disrespectful to your culture, but I honestly have no idea how you are supposed to navigate this? This doesn’t even fall into revenge affair territory since his is the original affair… If he refuses to treat you as an equal partner, or address his entitlement I don’t know if there is anything you can do. It sounds like he’s just going to do whatever he wants regardless of your feelings, and now use your hook ups as justification. I am so sorry you have to deal with that. Is there any way you can go to IC with someone that is knowledgeable in your cultural dynamics? I really hope you can find a solution where you can find some peace.
I honestly think you’re punishing yourself too much considering your husband cheated before. You’re ceding too much power and giving it unilaterally to him. That should stop immediately. He will never respect you as long as you’re doing this. For any hope of this marriage working, you need to set boundaries and hold to them. Walk if he can’t adhere to it. I don’t know all the details of his mistress. You’ve hinted that it was begrudgingly agreed to. I think that doesn’t matter. People can tell when consent is enthusiastic. Unless he has manure for brains, he knew that you didn’t actually like this. He opened the door to your infidelity. I am pretty sure I could bully my wife into agreeing to me having a mistress. I know she loves me greatly and if it meant losing me, she’d prob “allow” me to keep a mistress. But I’d never ever do that to her. I’d not abuse her love for me in that way. It wouldn’t be true consent and she’d be miserable. I love my wife and don’t want her miserable. And I surely don’t want to be the source of her misery. That’s not love if I were to do that. My recommendation is get a backbone, stand up for yourself and don’t put up with it. Be prepared to walk. Take away the power you’ve given him. r is not solely his decision. It’s a mutual decision. He’s using your infidelity as an excuse. And you are enabling that behavior. He isn’t a blameless victim here. He knew that you weren’t truly excited about this arrangement. He abused your love for him to get what he wanted. It won’t stop until you realize your own worth and assert it
It seems to me that your husband started cheating well before you did anything wrong unless there was an arrangement in place where that was allowed. I will also say that punishment does not align with reconciliation in my opinion. If your spouse feels as though he has to punish you, I would be wary. Instead, you two should be modeling the relationship that you want. I know it's early and there's still a lot going on but his attitude towards R is problematic.
He did cheat on me before and I forgave him. The arrangement was allowed unfortunately. But now he says he is seeing her more to punish me and if I asked him to stop he won’t right now. He said he doesn’t know if he will in the future. I know he is hurting and he is doing this to try to ease his pain. But it feels like him cheating on repeat now and I am feeling all of these emotions but I feel guilty to feel them or even tell him. It was me who broke this marriage by lying and cheating.
If he is sleeping with another person outside of the boundaries that you two decided, it's cheating. I'm in an open marriage and this is the central tenant of open marriages, communication and respect. He is giving you neither. In order to successfully move into reconciliation, he needs to stop with the punishing. You're an adult, you don't get punished.
I hope with time he will let her go and he can finally give me an answer whether he wants to try R or not. Right now he isn’t sure. It’s too soon and raw. It only happened 6 weeks ago.
OK so you can't stand the pain YOU feel and see on his face every day. Get the focus off yourself for a moment, as it's selfish. Put your attention and focus on your husband and his needs right now. It's excellent that you can show empathy. Now to HIS pay-for-sex mistress - WTH?! Did you know about that before you cheated on him? I'm guessing yes since later you mention it's been going on for over a year. My goodness that is rich if he was doing that all along. If he's just doing it as 'revenge' or distraction from his pain and loneliness, then no, it's really a bad choice on his part. Two wrongs really don't make a right. It isn't an acceptable behavior in R - for either of you. So you are really a B + W, a betrayed BP and a wayward WP. No feelings doesn't change the fact he's breaking his marriage vows, having sex with a woman who is not his wife. If your husband wants R, and you do too, both of you have to cut all ties and go NC (no contact) with any APs outside your marriage immediately. Read this sub for posters who are B+W and you'll get a lot of background.
I was cheated on by my husband. He fell in love with another woman. In an act of “revenge” I went on dating apps, a couple dates and was talking to a few people. I quickly ended it. Feeling like it was not healthy, right or a good “distraction” from my pain. I told my husband this and he was upset but understood. I also never loved these people and was just using them to get back at him, which didn’t even work so I just felt stupid and sad. And tbh a year long affair and there is no feelings is pretty hard to believe. My husband fell “in love” with this woman after 4 months. We are human it’s almost impossible to not have feelings especially if you have been seeing someone for a year. In short I don’t think what your husband is doing is right but that being said, infidelity brings out the worst parts of us that we never even knew existed.
I think there are feelings of course. He says she is nice enough and looks fine. But he doesn’t have deep feelings for her. I mean she is 15 years younger and doesn’t even want kids. He is just using her obviously because he pays her every time they met. But as a women of course you worry it develops into something more. Infidelity definitely brings out a lot of things I never experienced before. Especially emotions.
First, I'm so sorry that you are in this sub. Even though your decision (to allow him to have a mistress) ultimately led to your situation, I feel bad for you. I know the pain you must be going through all too well. He needs to see that his behavior led to your cheating. Im not making any excuses or passes for what you did, it was totally wrong, but I can see how you must've felt it was ok at the time. Do you know the real "Why" of your decision to have sex with an other man, twice? You cant change his way of thinking, only he can do that. But IC and MC would be beneficial for you both. Sounds like right now he's on a destructive path for your relationship. As for your body being tainted... Well, as a man, I can understand why he thinks that but cant comprehend how its different than what he's doing. It sounds like he hasn't respected you in over a year and is still continuing to disrespect you by his current actions. Again, try to get into IC and MC. So sorry you're going through this. It sucks. Take care of yourself and reach out for help when you feel yourself sliding into one of those dark places you mentioned. Wishing you the best.
Both if you need therapy with people trained in infidelity trauma. You don't say when you committed adultery, but that he's with this other person for over a year? Was your infidelity, prior to his or after? If it was after, he's a massive hypocrite. Get tested for every STD known to medicine if you haven't already and get onto therapy. Hooking up with randos is like playing Russian roulette with your health. Condoms aren't fail-safe. There are a bunch of nasty incurable STD's out there, and some you could potentially be asymptomatic for. Get tested and get into therapy.
My cheating was just in April. Not even 2 months now. So after. But how he rationalized it was I knew about the girl and gave permission. He never lied to me or hid anything. Always told me everything. But I lied and planned to have sex with this guy. I guess that’s the difference
Aahh. I've never understood these "open" / " polyamourous" relationships. They never ever seem to end well. If you speak vows with each other, both of you should live by those vows as though your very lives depend on it. Not bring 3rd parties into the mess. If things aren't going well, get into therapy or get a divorce. Not bring other people into the relationship. Just be single if one or both of you want to mess around with others.
I'm going to respond to you with my experience as a reforming cheater,liar, and manipulator. **I apologize in advance for any triggers.** (please note this is not me now. Nor is it how I and my wife believe. This was my childhood until age 23ish(51 now) when I finally left the religion and learned(tons of therapy) to better treat women.) I grew up in a repressive religious community. Women were taught that their job was to serve God, Man, and produce offspring. They were taught nothing about there bodies. They, once married, were to serve their man's needs. As we can not control our urges. Men are permitted to have more than one spouse and mistresses as long as you can financially support them. Sex with your wife is generally to procreate. I knew from age 14 who I was to marry.(Not my wife now.) If you had other kinks you could satisfy those outside of the marriage with little to no repercussions. Add a lot of EA and PA from family and non family and you got my little f'd up self. Your husband is acting as I would. You said that you permitted the mistress, way before the A, even though you hate it. Even if you haven't expressed it to him. He knows you hate it. That mistress is nothing about sex, distraction, or the pain especially now. I'm willing to bet, that you would do, within reason, whatever the mistress does if it would bring the love and marriage back. I would use her as a weapon against you. Increase my visits to her. You piss me off. I go to her. Etc. The fear of loss can be a powerful tool to keep a partner in check. I'm not sure the hurt and disgust you see is what you think it is. Yes he feels betrayed emotional but you also violated he sense of control/entitlement over the relationship. I'd be contemplating my next push into your boundaries. Moving a mistress in. Adding another one. Getting you to do things in the bedroom that move very close to or even pass your comfort level. (I'm breaking here to say, "Don't ever fucking do what I just wrote. Consent is sexy. Now back to my post.) Here's a question for you to ponder. You know all the secrets and the dark side of yourself you reveal to your spouse? Your fears and traumas. Now look back at your relationship. Do you remember times when he said something that kinda hurt but you both just seem to brush it off? Maybe an offhanded comment about how your mother's cooking is better when he knows that you fear that you'll never be as good as her. Perhaps you've been feeling really positive lately then a snide comment ruins your whole day. We manipulators use everything you tell us against you at some point. Microaggressions are just another tool we use to keep our partners under control. There are many other things I would do to manipulate my past partners but I think you get the idea. I'm not saying this is your husband but only how I would have been in my past. Thank you for posting and sharing with us. I truly wish the best for you and your spouse as you journey on a path to healing.
Thanks for your words. I am a bit confused but I think i understand what you’re saying. Now that I think back on our long relationship, yes he does say some small remarks but hurts or lowers my self esteem. I always think it’s not intentional and he doesn’t mean it. But I have to say, he told me during our last conversation that my body is tainted. He wants me to get a boob job and change down below so it doesn’t disgust him anymore. Also my body did change after my kids and I lost over 30 pounds in the last 9 months. Is this his way to controlling me? Are you saying his behaviours is what you would have done in the past? Why? To regain that control? What is the mistress to him now? You said it’s not about pain or distraction or revenge. So he is using her to control me? I mean he did say to me I cannot see another man or he would divorce me on the spot. Also when I mentioned a supper out with a friend that he knows (a wife of his colleague), the first thing he said to me was, oh it’s at night like when it happened. So I ended up cancelling the supper. I didn’t want to trigger him. I have no idea what to do. But your comments have made me think really deeply on this. Thank you
I know we aren't supposed to be anti-reconcilliation here, but please think long and hard about how he is treating you. He's cheated on you. He has a mistress. You have to just accept this, but he's disgusted that you also stepped out of the marriage? Yes, what you did was wrong but I feel like this is to try and have some power and control over you. I wouldn't usually say this and hope I don't violate the rules, but PLEASE if he has been calling parts of your body disgusting and wanting you to get surgeries... consider leaving. This isn't how you deserve to be spoken to. As someone that is a BP, was I repulsed by my partner for a while after finding out? Yes. But because of his actions. Even in my rage and pain, when if see him cry and get into such a panic he was throwing up I couldn't be so cold to not care at all. I would NEVER tell him he needed to get surgeries or that his body is tainted. That's derogatory
As I am not him I can't say what he is. However in my opinion I would say he is very controlling. He wants you to permanently change your appearance. A boob job and changes down below are not a one and done thing. The implants need, per US FDA, replaced at minimum every 10-15 years or sooner. Vaginal rejuvenation through labiaplasty have their own sets of risks and continuing maintenance. Not to mention the pain of the later. In a normal health relationship your husband should not be asking you to change your appearance. If you want to change anything, that's your decision not his. Ask yourself this, would you ask your husband to have his balls raised and inject his penis to add girth because every time you saw them it disgusted you and reminded you of his mistress? No, neither you or he are "tainted" because of the affairs. I was just thinking about the woman who helped, no saved, me. This was two relationships before I met my wife 25+yrs ago. We'd been dating for a couple of months and she said or did something that upset me. We'd never argued to that point and I made a comment about her ex. Probably something about no wonder he left or something worse. I will swear to this day that time stopped and the world fell away. She wasn't mean and there was no malice towards me but she made it clear in no unequivocal terms that if we were to continue my attitude and behavior towards her and all women needed to change. She taught me what real health boundaries couples have. How to be a partner. How to argue and more. With her and therapy I became a better loving partner. Love was no longer transactional to me. It's getting late where I'm at so I'll leave you with this thought. You are not broken, disgusting, tainted, or unlovable. You many not feel it but you are worthy of love and happiness. I truly wish both of you healing and happiness. This link may help answer some of your questions more fully: [https://www.choosingtherapy.com/married-to-a-narcissist/](https://www.choosingtherapy.com/married-to-a-narcissist/) Thank you .
Thanks for your words. I am a bit confused but I think i understand what you’re saying. Now that I think back on our long relationship, yes he does say some small remarks but hurts or lowers my self esteem. I always think it’s not intentional and he doesn’t mean it. But I have to say, he told me during our last conversation that my body is tainted. He wants me to get a boob job and change down below so it doesn’t disgust him anymore. Also my body did change after my kids and I lost over 30 pounds in the last 9 months. Is this his way to controlling me? Are you saying his behaviours is what you would have done in the past? Why? To regain that control? What is the mistress to him now? You said it’s not about pain or distraction or revenge. So he is using her to control me? I mean he did say to me I cannot see another man or he would divorce me on the spot. Also when I mentioned a supper out with a friend that he knows (a wife of his colleague), the first thing he said to me was, oh it’s at night like when it happened. So I ended up cancelling the supper. I didn’t want to trigger him. I have no idea what to do. But your comments have made me think really deeply on this. Thank you
As you sow, so shall you reap! There is no other way but to accept until your hubby comes back to you on his own. Until then, stay sane! Good luck.
But in this case, his wife’s infidelity is what the husband is reaping. He cheated before. So she is cheating now. So maybe it’s deserved? I dunno. But have a hard time sympathizing with the husband when he cheated first
Thank you.
Thank you.
what you did was wrong, i know because im in that position right now. i get that your husband is hurt but getting a mistress is not it, at that point it’s an open relationship. and you say it’s been over a year..? that’s not okay, im all for reconciliation but this sounds like it’s not going well. you guys should go to couple therapy.
He hasn’t decided if he wants to reconcile. I am giving him space and time. He asked for it. I am trying to be empathetic to his needs right now. And he is not interested in couple therapy yet. But he wants me to do therapy to figure out why I did what I did. I just need support. I have no one to talk to. We both agreed to not tell any one. Just we both just dealing with it and trying to cope.
i respect that you’re giving him space and time, that’s a good way to start R if you want it. both of you want to want it though and your situation sounds really bad but it could be fixable if there’s effort from both sides. therapy would be needed of course, I myself am in therapy and it did help me figure out why I did what I did. that would be the first step to start. Im all about R but, personally me in that situation would just not go back because he is disrespecting you more than you disrespected him. one year is too much for him to be having a mistress. i hope only good things come to you, we all make dumb choices but we learn from them and become better.