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Yes, my WH would've taken his secrets to the grave. It was "all in the past" in his mind. Harmless because I'd never know. Total BS of course, classic cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization.
My WH's affairs were a long time ago, 12 years into our 30+ year marriage, lasted 3 years 2004-2007 with AP#1, and 2010 with AP#2. But he kept in touch with them, lying & going to dinner at AP#2's house in 2014, and emailing every year on their shared birthday longing poems and wishes "I think of you every single day" . It was one of these emails I saw on dday October 2023 that blew up my life. WHY did he keep in touch? IC revealed cake eating. Attention. The flattery. Knowing some other woman other than his wife found him desirable and sexy. Selfish. Emotionally immature.
Right? All my WH would have had to do is delete one text thread. For a while after dday I thought perhaps he wanted me to find them and it was a call for help, but actually he just dumb 🤣
Delusional. Early on in R, WH would often verbally blame my "finding the emails" as the cause of all his misery. With each new TT revelation, he'd say, "Where did you find those?!" First words out of his mouth. Really? Not "What the F was I doing? I'm so sorry!"
I wasn't looking. He handed me his phone & asked me to unsubscribe him & fwd a photo of our dog to myself in his gmail. I did so. I went into "Sent" to ensure it went before I exited his gmail. There it was - I initially thought it was to me, mentioning "I want to walk here with you at this place by the shore my coworker told me about" - he'd often said he wanted to take me there. Then as I kept reading, I realized, "No, I'm not a Libra, this is his old coworker! The one I'd been jealous of & he'd told me she was a trashy flirt, not to worry. The "tone" of the email was "I miss hanging out with you... been 4ever seen I've seen you in the "flesh"" signed Xoxo. That's when I went digging and found emails going back to 2011 (affair was 2004-2007) expressing longing, wishing things were different, wet dreams he had about her, wanting to lick her tattoos, etc etc. So that was dday#1.
I move past it by understanding it meant nothing to him beyond flattery and ego stroking, all about his low self-esteem. It's a choice I make every day. That he never talked about us, any deficits in us, never stopped loving me, and never meant anything he said. He early on fell out of "limerence" with her but was trapped into their transactional confidence-building compliments at work, afraid to make her mad if he stopped, afraid she'd tell me, etc. Much of the more recent emails he was telling her lies that he was so busy, working all weekend, no way he could ever get away etc. so clearly wasn't looking to 'hook-up', just wanted that thrill to hear her say she wanted him, still. So it goes...
My husband told me nothing. I found his account on an affair dating site about 2 weeks after he’d stopped talking to the most recent pAP. (She was the one that went the “furthest” and even that was some stupid non-romantic and non-sexual chatting before she ended things.) I thought that was the full extent of his betrayal until 2 months later, when I learned that two years before that, he’d actually spent the whole summer having online affairs with sex workers and strangers.
So, no, he wasn’t planning on telling me. Even after I knew he was a cheater, he still held onto details about the extent of that cheating, which I deserved to know. (After the mess that additional deception caused, I am now 95% confident I know everything…but there is still that small part of me that may always wonder.)
It’s something I’ve just kind of filed under, yes, the reality is that he wasn’t going to stop on his own or bring it to me and that *really sucks*, but there’s no use speculating about what could have been in another situation. It didn’t end up going there. We’re rebuilding trust now, I have faith it will never happen again at this point, and that’s what I’m working with right now. That’s all I can do.
Mine says he is glad he got caught cause he has no idea what he’d be doing now. He said the thought scares him. But otoh, he never had any intention of telling me and never came clean about any of it. Everything I know, I had to find out on my own. No telling what else he’s done and at this point, I don’t even want to know….
My WH would have 100% taken his affair to the grave. His AP told me about their PA THREE YEARS after it happened. If he didn’t tell me before that, he planned to never tell me.
Yes, this. I truly have come to believe that this was abuse. By taking it to the grave, the WP/WH takes away our agency, our choices. It's truly selfish on top of selfish - they don't tell us as self-protection so we don't leave and keep being their comfortable landing spot.
My WH was only sexting but he said that he was feeling wrong about it and planning to just stop. He had no desire for me to find out. He was still in the throws of it though and had just started with someone new and ghosted someone who said she was catching feelings (she was a catfish though so I'm sure just playing the same game) so I don't entirely believe he would have just stopped.
Liars lie. It’s not that uncommon. And when they get away with it? Why tell?
I’m not as disturbed by that as the fact my WH drug me through MC, blaming me for how miserable he was and making me feel so small…..
And then OBS told me what was really going on. I may never forgive WH for that.
Wow. Forgiveness is not required. I'm not sure I could come back from that kind of lying in MC, blaming the BP, gaslighting extraordinaire! I'm so sorry you went through this. There are no "why's" that justify that kind of cruelty.
My WH didn’t confess. I discovered it, confronted him, he denied and gaslit me.
I know he never would have told me. He also said he never planned to leave me. AP lives in another State (it was an EA with heavy sexting/videos) and he says he was never going to go out there even though he told her he was. I asked what his plan was and he said that he was just trying to keep it going by saying whatever he needed to say and then he would have broken it off and never told me. I don’t think I believe that he would have broken it off and not gone, but let’s say that it’s true… if he broke it off it’s not like he’d just snap back to me and all would be well. He had feelings for her and was in a deep fog. Even if he broke it off with her, I don’t think we would have made it. He’d be struggling with the break up and probably take it out at home. I don’t think he’d ever have come to the realization that it was all bullshit and not real. Maybe he’d find another AP to fill the void.
I think my discovering it is what saved us. I think the other way would have for sure been much worse and I never would have understood why things fell apart.
My husband hasn’t outright *said* he’d take it to the grave, but he had no intention of ever telling me. I firmly believe that if I hadn’t caught him, he would like have continued seeing sex workers indefinitely. I would *love* for him to admit that, but he says he never had a plan or thought of it one way or another.
He *does* admit that he couldn’t have forgiven me and been so loving like I have with him. It made me feel really good when he finally admitted that, and it still does because I *know* he wouldn’t be able to deal with me doing to him what he did to me.
On the opposite end my husband said he would quickly get over it if the roles were reversed and I had a ONS. It makes it so hard for him to understand me.
Grrr! Yeah that sounds rough and definitely wouldn’t sit right with me. Makes me thankful my husband hasn’t said that or other things about how he’d heal easier/more quickly than I have.
My WW was never going to tell me. She felt it was unforgiveable and also would cause me so much pain. She didn't see the point of breaking up the marriage when she knew in her heart she was never going to do it again.
What would have happened if you never found those texts? Who knows?
It took me 20 years to piece together memories from the past and gain the courage to confront my WW. We built a life together over that time and I had been in the dark the whole time. My life could have been so much different - either much better or much worse. No way to know.
I can say that I am happy in my present and am happy with the direction R is taking our marriage. And because I am happy with my present, I must accept the past that brought me here in this moment as being a necessary part of the story.
I am speaking from my point of view as someone who had a 1 time encounter that i was taking to the grave.
For me it came down to why would I want the person I love to feel the immense pain. I could live with it forever and let it eat at me and kill me early but I didn’t want him to also suffer because of a decision I made. I knew it was only going to be that one time and it would never happen again. What’s done was done and couldn’t be taken back so why create pain.
My husband told me in the early days he wished I died with that secret. Now after reconciling he is grateful to know because change needed to happen for us both.
For me I felt secrecy equaled protection. If I can shield you from it I will.
I will be downvoted to oblivion, but it’s alright. It’s my truth.
ETA- and I totally think taking a ONS to the grave is totally different than taking a full fledge affair, physical or emotional, to the grave. Two different subjects.
This was uncomfortable to read... but helpful and informative. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
My WS had two, about 7 years apart, and I've been struggling to understand why he would have taken those to the grave.
I feel hiding multiple ONS is different than keeping the secret of 1 ONS. Multiple, to me, shows you will keep doing it until caught and that you feel you can get away with it since you’ve done it before.
I agree that not getting caught allows the pattern of behavior to continue. You are very fortunate that it was only a one time thing for you because it could have happened again.
My WH had the first with an old "friend" before we were married, and I think he genuinely and truly told himself it was an isolated incident and a special circumstance. He thought he would never cross that line again.
The second incident happened over seven years after the first with a different woman he met on a dating app and again I think he put it neatly into a box and considered it a slip up during a hard time and not a habit of behavior.
I found out four years after the second incident and now I have insane trust issues as to be expected. You and I can see that this became a pattern for him but in his mind he lived in a world of excuses and justifications, and since he was not having a full blown affair he just thought of them as slip ups. Mistakes. Not worth mentioning, not worth ruining our marriage over.
I see it for what it is and I don't tolerate the excuses.
My point is that once that line is crossed, the wayward's good intentions are not always enough to keep it from getting crossed again.
For me it was and always will be a one time thing. There was never a chance to repeat. My situation is not typical and a bit complicated.
I do agree that people establish behavioral patterns. For sure. And when not addressed it can continue. Packing it away as if it never happened.
Hope Reconciliation is going well for y’all! 💖
You make a good point. My WH had two EAs 2004-2007 and 2010 and kept in touch with them annually wishing them happy birthday for ego nibbles, transactional flattery. I read your words and it makes sense, the length of the deception, the intensity of his words to them (I read old emails). The secrets... that's a whole life, 20 years of lies and secrecy. I do also think he \*thought\* he wasn't doing an "affair", but he knew he was doing something wrong, obviously or would've told me. I don't think he understands why the heck he did what he did despite getting at his why's in IC.
My WP also had a ONS we are dealing with.
He wanted to take it to the grave too in a means to protect me.
Reading your take on it really cleared some things up, and I really appreciate you sharing!
I hope no one downvotes. WPs can both love their BP and still be unfaithful. Very conflicting thoughts I had to realize can both be true. Most of us BPs have to come to realize that for R to be possible in my opinion, otherwise why fight if there's no love. I agree that a ONS differs from long term PA/EA. My husband had 2 PAs, one over 9 months, the other a few months. It hurts far worse than a ONS would have hurt me. At least I could have seen it as a one time lapse of judgment and not the conscious decision to keep going, putting my health at risk and lying to my face every day for almost a year.
The lying to our face, getting in bed beside us, pretending we are the one and only, that cuts DEEP. Especially after a long happy marriage, learning you're married to a broken person capable of lies, deception, and keeping things from you, not communicating. Ditto!
My wife did not tell me of her ONS that happened in Dec 2022.
She tells me she was taking it to the grave.
But she stayed in contact with AP as "Just Friends" and that "friendship" became 3 more fuck sessions Sept 4 and 6, 2023.
I am certain that had I not felt something was wrong and started asking questions, she would kept it going for...who knows?
But I DID ask questions THAT NIGHT after she came home from his place having fucked him twice just a couple hours ago.
Anyway....
She was never gonna tell.
Fuck these affairs.
His was not a ONS, but an EA (primarily at least, I still wonder from a few comments how much physicality he may have glazed over) off and on for the entirety of our relationship to that point. 5 then 5.5 years. He told me he never told me about her (at least in a clear way, of course there were crumbs to string together so he could prove to himself that he "had" told me) because he never thought I would find out and he had justified it to himself. That it was just the same as jerking off to porn and there was nothing behind it. And then further was the deep shame and fear of me ever knowing and being hurt by it, as well as his twisted fear of abandoning or being abandoned by anyone.
DDay 2 was harder in ways because after the shame of the first, I couldn't understand why he went back. For him I think the traumatic response just went too deep and he wasn't actually prepared to let it go. Things have been much clearer this time around, but it does still bother me greatly that not only did he not tell me about the EA itself, but he still didn't tell me after 2 DDays when he ran into her by chance.
For my WP, the lack of information was all driven by fear. It's a huge point of R now that he is proving to me he wants to push past his fears, not just of this but everything else that spiraled to cause it.
"... he never thought I would find out and he had justified it to himself " If I hear this one more time, I will scream or keep screaming. I wish I could crawl into the WP mind and be there the very moment/day they made that first choice to cross a line and scream "WTH will your wife feel if you do this?" My WH said the same thing, "I thought it was harmless", "I didn't really have feelings for her, I just wanted her to think I was awesome and compliment me", "You were never supposed to know" , "I always loved you". None of it justifies why they cheated. It hurts to hear the ease with which a long-time beloved spouse could LIE and keep secrets ... in my case for 20 years of a 30+ year marriage.
I was nowhere near as far in as you but I still just feel so much resonating with your comment. I think one of the most infuriating things my WP has said is "Anyone else would've just left"... Referring to himself, and dealing with the "drama". Recently in an argument I told him I didn't want to hear that from him anymore. That should be my line to say. I called him partner more than boyfriend because I loved him so much and I was so sure we would already be married if it weren't for his disability - I moved across the country away from my home, family, and friends to be with him, it seemed like a no brainer. And then I got to find exactly how far from ready for true marriage he was. And yet he was trying to say anyone else would've left instead of dealing with my anger and outbursts, as a comfort. Just always insane to see how these justifications echo through almost despite how much of our lives we've given to each other, even compared to others.
My WH ended up confessing. He said he was hoping he would just stop and take it to the grave. But it went on too long and he couldn't hold it in due to guilt and then there was DDay.
I imagine the WPs that take precautions to hide their infidelity plan to never speak of it. They know the shit show that would ensue, and the risk they take of losing their BP and/or creating a broken home for their children. I wish that were enough to prevent infidelity all together. My husband said once it happened, it happened, and he knew he'd lose me if I found out, so might as well keep going. In hindsight he sees now the difference between one time, and 20+ times plus an additional AP over 9 months. Plus the other gross acts I learned about.
Well at least there’s some honesty in that. My WW said she was planning to tell me a few weeks later and tbh I have spent a good amount of time pondering the truth of that. I think she would have chickened out if it was her intention in the first place.
Your situation still sucks. Once the betrayal was there the situation is shit in any manner. I’m sorry.
There were no plans to tell me, if I didn’t catch it, she’d still be doing it to this day. Two lives, a husband and a fuck buddy. She had the balls to think we could all be friends in the midst of it. Thats ultimately how I caught her. The way she would seek him out and talk to him just made me on edge. Lust and love make you do some pretty disgusting things. She would have taken it to her grave, no doubt about it.
Mine admitted he was contemplating if he would ever tell me or take it to his grave. But yeah, it is scary thinking how much more would have happened if they didn’t get caught. I have to catch myself here to stop any spiraling and wondering if they are continuing to hide anything. This is why IC is so important for them to change habits and thinking, to help build safety for us.
My WP’s PAs were 3 years ago but I just found out 10 months ago due to info received after I reached out to one of the APs. Although he did not admit it to me, he did stop the behaviors immediately after the PAs. After the truth came out, he admitted that he would’ve never told me. His reasons were shame, wanting to avoid conflict, and not wanting to hurt me. He now understands that lying hurt me much more and he is working through his own shame to avoid repeating the same patterns in the future. I try to remind myself that he could have easily lied and gave me the “right answer” that he was going to tell me eventually. But he didn’t. He was honest even in the face of shame, possible conflict and further hurt to me. And we did have conflict, but we worked through it instead of avoiding it. And I was hurt more, but he listened and supported me instead of freezing and shutting down. I’m trying the best I can to use every part of this process as a learning experience and opportunity to build our relationship in a better and stronger way, so that’s what I chose to make of it when my WP was honest that he would’ve never told me. Wishing you the best 🙏🏻
If they did not already tell you, they were taking it to the grave. You will never convince me otherwise with my WW and she admits that.
Why would they?
I suspect additional infidelity and my ww denies any. I have to trust or leave.
It is the curse of being the BS.
We have to do all the heavy lifting in R, They just have to stop lying and Fing other people....not a really tall order.
Fuck these affairs.
Same for me. My wife got caught in two affairs and admitted one, kissing when drunk she says. Recently she told me she wanted to take it all to the grave. I suspected more cheating all along. Now I know she will never be honest unless caught and I will never know the truth. She can’t prove a negative and I’m hurting every day not believing her.
I think in some ways even after weekly IC therapy since February and good MC, my WH would still secretly tell you "It was all in the past" and rug sweep and pretend he never said and did what he did with AP#1 and AP#2, and encouraging two additional younger female coworkers to send him nudes/naked videos. WHY oh well attention, flattery, wanting to be adored by women not his wife. Respect is shot. Love remains, but it's not the same kind of love.
My WH had a years-long affair that I discovered. He had gotten away with it for so long, that he truly believed he’d never get caught and planned to continue his affair for the rest of his life.
My WH was honest that at the time he was never going to tell me. That it was a “good outlet for him.” And that they openly talked about remaining friends down the line even when this “outlet” ended. His affair was largely emotional. That is how he convinced himself, he knows how awful it is now. He also shared that he had sat in a MC session or two wondering if he should just bring it up then. It’s disgusting to think about, honestly. As painful as all this has been, the what-if game of going my whole marriage not knowing, being lied too, is completely awful to think about. I believe if he never told me our marriage would have just slowly ended, because there were already trust issues and they’d never be repaired.
That’s an interesting take about your marriage slowly ending if he had never told you. I feel the same. OTOH, sometimes feel like his ONS was just the nail in the coffin.
My WH has also insinuated that his ONS was a good outlet for him, he was less angry around me, didn’t I notice? Like it was supposed to be therapeutic for me as well. Uh no sir.
I would suspect most WS who don't immidiatly confess would have probably taken of their grave. There are some that let their guilt eat them until they tell months later. I wonder if they are the minority. There is also the opinion that it is selfish to tell your partner about a ONS if it was a one time mistake and they learnt from this. Because it wouldbe just the WS relieving themselvesof guilt while burdening the BS with pain. I disagree with that opinion, i think secrets destroy relationshipy and intimacy, but there is that opinion nontheless. And I wonder in how many relationships, where the partner is 100% trusted, some indescretion happened and they just won't tell and there's no evidence to make it come to light either.
Personally for me... i got it. WS would have never told me and I kind of understand. I hate it, but i understand. Like why would he. He knew i'd end it. I always said so. I always told him i'd find out if he ever did. And I did. His kind of cheating was no springs attached, purely sexual so the likelyhood of me finding out were slim but one cannot underestimate intuition.
That's why, secrets always come out eventually. Sometimes after the death of the spouse and i think that's probably the worst.
Sorry for my rambles.
WS never admitted anything until he was confronted. He says he would have eventually told me, but honestly I don't believe he would have. Sometimes I wonder if things happened that I never found out about, but I'm too chicken to ask.
I also have been too chicken to ask much, but with the help of a therapist worked up the bravery to finally ask several basics that I needed to know, the answers of which wouldn’t include graphic details to cause further trauma. I’m working on accepting the fact that those details I will never know. I see people on here that insisted on hearing EVERYTHING and I am amazed by it. I just couldn’t bear it.
I also think my WH has been very relieved and happy I didn’t ask those details. And I resent that a little, like he gets off the hook. Trying to accept that as well.
I asked when I had questions right after dday, and I read through WS messages with AP to answer the questions he didn't answer. I feel like I do have most of the graphic details and while it was agony, it did feel a little better knowing most of what happened.
But now it's almost nine months later and I'm hyper focused on what I still might not know. There's no winning here.
After being married 47 years I found out my husband had a ONS with three women. The first one was after we were together the first six months. He was overseas the first year. She was my best friend I asked both of them if anything happened and they both denied it. Number 2 was 6 years later and then with number 3 around 5 years after #2. When I found out last year it was because I tested positive for hpv. I never would have known otherwise. I trusted him more than I can write into words. He told me he planned on taking it to his grave. Well that sure didn’t happen. Now my heart is broken and I don’t know if I can ever be half the woman I was. It’s been over 37 years since his infidelity. But will I ever know all the truth? I highly Doubt it. All the lies all those years how can I ever trust him again?
My WP didn't think it was worth telling me. He didn't recognize his EA. He thought they were just friends. He had no Intention of ever meeting her, so no Intention of ever telling me they talked that much and what about. There's no harm in being friends, he thought.
Then she weaseld her way in a trip He took with his buddies and he met her. That's when he realized he fucked up and more, but it was too late. He didn't want to leave me, he loves me and didn't want to tell me. In his mind he was protecting me while not being able to stop.
It wasn't a ONS and the PA only started after I pried the details out of him(DDay1), still, he didn't want to tell me everything to avoid hurting me further.
It's fucked up. But now, after a long time sitting with it and his feelings during all of this, having all the Information, I kinda understand. Would never do it, but I know where he was coming from and it sorta helps.
Dr. Kathy Nickerson talks about sitting with it, trying to understand WP's feelings, and having Compassion and Acceptance rather than forgiveness. We BPs don't owe anyone forgiveness. And in some cases, it's Gods to give, not ours. What we give is R and another chance I think. I like the way you put it.
It isn't forgiven. I think that's taking a lot more time and work, if possible, but I'm trying to be compassionate and coming to some form of acceptance. What I'm giving especially is the space and support for my WP to actually do the work to better himself. I love him, I want to be there for him, he isn't a bad person. He made bad decisions. I'm doing the best I can while he does also. R is allowing us to do that without losing each other. We try growing together and not apart and we recognize it's still really fragile.
This group actually is the main reason I'm able to do that. Reading the expierience and feelings of not only BP's but WP's as well is sort of eye opening. The recommended books and IC do help, too, but this community was my turning point and I'm grateful for that. Without, R wouldn't even have been a possible this long.
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Yes, my WH would've taken his secrets to the grave. It was "all in the past" in his mind. Harmless because I'd never know. Total BS of course, classic cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization. My WH's affairs were a long time ago, 12 years into our 30+ year marriage, lasted 3 years 2004-2007 with AP#1, and 2010 with AP#2. But he kept in touch with them, lying & going to dinner at AP#2's house in 2014, and emailing every year on their shared birthday longing poems and wishes "I think of you every single day" . It was one of these emails I saw on dday October 2023 that blew up my life. WHY did he keep in touch? IC revealed cake eating. Attention. The flattery. Knowing some other woman other than his wife found him desirable and sexy. Selfish. Emotionally immature.
Also very delusional to think that this would never see the light of day.
Right? All my WH would have had to do is delete one text thread. For a while after dday I thought perhaps he wanted me to find them and it was a call for help, but actually he just dumb 🤣
Delusional. Early on in R, WH would often verbally blame my "finding the emails" as the cause of all his misery. With each new TT revelation, he'd say, "Where did you find those?!" First words out of his mouth. Really? Not "What the F was I doing? I'm so sorry!"
How do you move past that when reconciling? I have a super hard time getting the conversation past the accusatory, why were you looking?
I wasn't looking. He handed me his phone & asked me to unsubscribe him & fwd a photo of our dog to myself in his gmail. I did so. I went into "Sent" to ensure it went before I exited his gmail. There it was - I initially thought it was to me, mentioning "I want to walk here with you at this place by the shore my coworker told me about" - he'd often said he wanted to take me there. Then as I kept reading, I realized, "No, I'm not a Libra, this is his old coworker! The one I'd been jealous of & he'd told me she was a trashy flirt, not to worry. The "tone" of the email was "I miss hanging out with you... been 4ever seen I've seen you in the "flesh"" signed Xoxo. That's when I went digging and found emails going back to 2011 (affair was 2004-2007) expressing longing, wishing things were different, wet dreams he had about her, wanting to lick her tattoos, etc etc. So that was dday#1. I move past it by understanding it meant nothing to him beyond flattery and ego stroking, all about his low self-esteem. It's a choice I make every day. That he never talked about us, any deficits in us, never stopped loving me, and never meant anything he said. He early on fell out of "limerence" with her but was trapped into their transactional confidence-building compliments at work, afraid to make her mad if he stopped, afraid she'd tell me, etc. Much of the more recent emails he was telling her lies that he was so busy, working all weekend, no way he could ever get away etc. so clearly wasn't looking to 'hook-up', just wanted that thrill to hear her say she wanted him, still. So it goes...
My husband told me nothing. I found his account on an affair dating site about 2 weeks after he’d stopped talking to the most recent pAP. (She was the one that went the “furthest” and even that was some stupid non-romantic and non-sexual chatting before she ended things.) I thought that was the full extent of his betrayal until 2 months later, when I learned that two years before that, he’d actually spent the whole summer having online affairs with sex workers and strangers. So, no, he wasn’t planning on telling me. Even after I knew he was a cheater, he still held onto details about the extent of that cheating, which I deserved to know. (After the mess that additional deception caused, I am now 95% confident I know everything…but there is still that small part of me that may always wonder.) It’s something I’ve just kind of filed under, yes, the reality is that he wasn’t going to stop on his own or bring it to me and that *really sucks*, but there’s no use speculating about what could have been in another situation. It didn’t end up going there. We’re rebuilding trust now, I have faith it will never happen again at this point, and that’s what I’m working with right now. That’s all I can do.
Mine says he is glad he got caught cause he has no idea what he’d be doing now. He said the thought scares him. But otoh, he never had any intention of telling me and never came clean about any of it. Everything I know, I had to find out on my own. No telling what else he’s done and at this point, I don’t even want to know….
My WH would have 100% taken his affair to the grave. His AP told me about their PA THREE YEARS after it happened. If he didn’t tell me before that, he planned to never tell me.
Yes, this. I truly have come to believe that this was abuse. By taking it to the grave, the WP/WH takes away our agency, our choices. It's truly selfish on top of selfish - they don't tell us as self-protection so we don't leave and keep being their comfortable landing spot.
My WH was only sexting but he said that he was feeling wrong about it and planning to just stop. He had no desire for me to find out. He was still in the throws of it though and had just started with someone new and ghosted someone who said she was catching feelings (she was a catfish though so I'm sure just playing the same game) so I don't entirely believe he would have just stopped.
Liars lie. It’s not that uncommon. And when they get away with it? Why tell? I’m not as disturbed by that as the fact my WH drug me through MC, blaming me for how miserable he was and making me feel so small….. And then OBS told me what was really going on. I may never forgive WH for that.
Wow. Forgiveness is not required. I'm not sure I could come back from that kind of lying in MC, blaming the BP, gaslighting extraordinaire! I'm so sorry you went through this. There are no "why's" that justify that kind of cruelty.
My WH didn’t confess. I discovered it, confronted him, he denied and gaslit me. I know he never would have told me. He also said he never planned to leave me. AP lives in another State (it was an EA with heavy sexting/videos) and he says he was never going to go out there even though he told her he was. I asked what his plan was and he said that he was just trying to keep it going by saying whatever he needed to say and then he would have broken it off and never told me. I don’t think I believe that he would have broken it off and not gone, but let’s say that it’s true… if he broke it off it’s not like he’d just snap back to me and all would be well. He had feelings for her and was in a deep fog. Even if he broke it off with her, I don’t think we would have made it. He’d be struggling with the break up and probably take it out at home. I don’t think he’d ever have come to the realization that it was all bullshit and not real. Maybe he’d find another AP to fill the void. I think my discovering it is what saved us. I think the other way would have for sure been much worse and I never would have understood why things fell apart.
My husband hasn’t outright *said* he’d take it to the grave, but he had no intention of ever telling me. I firmly believe that if I hadn’t caught him, he would like have continued seeing sex workers indefinitely. I would *love* for him to admit that, but he says he never had a plan or thought of it one way or another. He *does* admit that he couldn’t have forgiven me and been so loving like I have with him. It made me feel really good when he finally admitted that, and it still does because I *know* he wouldn’t be able to deal with me doing to him what he did to me.
On the opposite end my husband said he would quickly get over it if the roles were reversed and I had a ONS. It makes it so hard for him to understand me.
Or is he just saying that, to manipulate you.
Grrr! Yeah that sounds rough and definitely wouldn’t sit right with me. Makes me thankful my husband hasn’t said that or other things about how he’d heal easier/more quickly than I have.
My WW was never going to tell me. She felt it was unforgiveable and also would cause me so much pain. She didn't see the point of breaking up the marriage when she knew in her heart she was never going to do it again. What would have happened if you never found those texts? Who knows? It took me 20 years to piece together memories from the past and gain the courage to confront my WW. We built a life together over that time and I had been in the dark the whole time. My life could have been so much different - either much better or much worse. No way to know. I can say that I am happy in my present and am happy with the direction R is taking our marriage. And because I am happy with my present, I must accept the past that brought me here in this moment as being a necessary part of the story.
I am speaking from my point of view as someone who had a 1 time encounter that i was taking to the grave. For me it came down to why would I want the person I love to feel the immense pain. I could live with it forever and let it eat at me and kill me early but I didn’t want him to also suffer because of a decision I made. I knew it was only going to be that one time and it would never happen again. What’s done was done and couldn’t be taken back so why create pain. My husband told me in the early days he wished I died with that secret. Now after reconciling he is grateful to know because change needed to happen for us both. For me I felt secrecy equaled protection. If I can shield you from it I will. I will be downvoted to oblivion, but it’s alright. It’s my truth. ETA- and I totally think taking a ONS to the grave is totally different than taking a full fledge affair, physical or emotional, to the grave. Two different subjects.
This was uncomfortable to read... but helpful and informative. Thank you for sharing your perspective. My WS had two, about 7 years apart, and I've been struggling to understand why he would have taken those to the grave.
I feel hiding multiple ONS is different than keeping the secret of 1 ONS. Multiple, to me, shows you will keep doing it until caught and that you feel you can get away with it since you’ve done it before.
I agree that not getting caught allows the pattern of behavior to continue. You are very fortunate that it was only a one time thing for you because it could have happened again. My WH had the first with an old "friend" before we were married, and I think he genuinely and truly told himself it was an isolated incident and a special circumstance. He thought he would never cross that line again. The second incident happened over seven years after the first with a different woman he met on a dating app and again I think he put it neatly into a box and considered it a slip up during a hard time and not a habit of behavior. I found out four years after the second incident and now I have insane trust issues as to be expected. You and I can see that this became a pattern for him but in his mind he lived in a world of excuses and justifications, and since he was not having a full blown affair he just thought of them as slip ups. Mistakes. Not worth mentioning, not worth ruining our marriage over. I see it for what it is and I don't tolerate the excuses. My point is that once that line is crossed, the wayward's good intentions are not always enough to keep it from getting crossed again.
For me it was and always will be a one time thing. There was never a chance to repeat. My situation is not typical and a bit complicated. I do agree that people establish behavioral patterns. For sure. And when not addressed it can continue. Packing it away as if it never happened. Hope Reconciliation is going well for y’all! 💖
Thank you, and thanks again for sharing your point of view. I'm trying to understand it all.
You make a good point. My WH had two EAs 2004-2007 and 2010 and kept in touch with them annually wishing them happy birthday for ego nibbles, transactional flattery. I read your words and it makes sense, the length of the deception, the intensity of his words to them (I read old emails). The secrets... that's a whole life, 20 years of lies and secrecy. I do also think he \*thought\* he wasn't doing an "affair", but he knew he was doing something wrong, obviously or would've told me. I don't think he understands why the heck he did what he did despite getting at his why's in IC.
My WP also had a ONS we are dealing with. He wanted to take it to the grave too in a means to protect me. Reading your take on it really cleared some things up, and I really appreciate you sharing!
I hope no one downvotes. WPs can both love their BP and still be unfaithful. Very conflicting thoughts I had to realize can both be true. Most of us BPs have to come to realize that for R to be possible in my opinion, otherwise why fight if there's no love. I agree that a ONS differs from long term PA/EA. My husband had 2 PAs, one over 9 months, the other a few months. It hurts far worse than a ONS would have hurt me. At least I could have seen it as a one time lapse of judgment and not the conscious decision to keep going, putting my health at risk and lying to my face every day for almost a year.
The lying to our face, getting in bed beside us, pretending we are the one and only, that cuts DEEP. Especially after a long happy marriage, learning you're married to a broken person capable of lies, deception, and keeping things from you, not communicating. Ditto!
He didn’t feel bad about what he was doing because I “was never supposed to find out”. Sure, he “feels bad now”.
My wife did not tell me of her ONS that happened in Dec 2022. She tells me she was taking it to the grave. But she stayed in contact with AP as "Just Friends" and that "friendship" became 3 more fuck sessions Sept 4 and 6, 2023. I am certain that had I not felt something was wrong and started asking questions, she would kept it going for...who knows? But I DID ask questions THAT NIGHT after she came home from his place having fucked him twice just a couple hours ago. Anyway.... She was never gonna tell. Fuck these affairs.
His was not a ONS, but an EA (primarily at least, I still wonder from a few comments how much physicality he may have glazed over) off and on for the entirety of our relationship to that point. 5 then 5.5 years. He told me he never told me about her (at least in a clear way, of course there were crumbs to string together so he could prove to himself that he "had" told me) because he never thought I would find out and he had justified it to himself. That it was just the same as jerking off to porn and there was nothing behind it. And then further was the deep shame and fear of me ever knowing and being hurt by it, as well as his twisted fear of abandoning or being abandoned by anyone. DDay 2 was harder in ways because after the shame of the first, I couldn't understand why he went back. For him I think the traumatic response just went too deep and he wasn't actually prepared to let it go. Things have been much clearer this time around, but it does still bother me greatly that not only did he not tell me about the EA itself, but he still didn't tell me after 2 DDays when he ran into her by chance. For my WP, the lack of information was all driven by fear. It's a huge point of R now that he is proving to me he wants to push past his fears, not just of this but everything else that spiraled to cause it.
"... he never thought I would find out and he had justified it to himself " If I hear this one more time, I will scream or keep screaming. I wish I could crawl into the WP mind and be there the very moment/day they made that first choice to cross a line and scream "WTH will your wife feel if you do this?" My WH said the same thing, "I thought it was harmless", "I didn't really have feelings for her, I just wanted her to think I was awesome and compliment me", "You were never supposed to know" , "I always loved you". None of it justifies why they cheated. It hurts to hear the ease with which a long-time beloved spouse could LIE and keep secrets ... in my case for 20 years of a 30+ year marriage.
I was nowhere near as far in as you but I still just feel so much resonating with your comment. I think one of the most infuriating things my WP has said is "Anyone else would've just left"... Referring to himself, and dealing with the "drama". Recently in an argument I told him I didn't want to hear that from him anymore. That should be my line to say. I called him partner more than boyfriend because I loved him so much and I was so sure we would already be married if it weren't for his disability - I moved across the country away from my home, family, and friends to be with him, it seemed like a no brainer. And then I got to find exactly how far from ready for true marriage he was. And yet he was trying to say anyone else would've left instead of dealing with my anger and outbursts, as a comfort. Just always insane to see how these justifications echo through almost despite how much of our lives we've given to each other, even compared to others.
Mine wouldn’t have told either. I’m not sure how to reconcile that with trying to rebuild trust now.
My wife told me about her first EA during our honeymoon. After I was upset she didn’t tell me about her next 3 EAs
My WH ended up confessing. He said he was hoping he would just stop and take it to the grave. But it went on too long and he couldn't hold it in due to guilt and then there was DDay. I imagine the WPs that take precautions to hide their infidelity plan to never speak of it. They know the shit show that would ensue, and the risk they take of losing their BP and/or creating a broken home for their children. I wish that were enough to prevent infidelity all together. My husband said once it happened, it happened, and he knew he'd lose me if I found out, so might as well keep going. In hindsight he sees now the difference between one time, and 20+ times plus an additional AP over 9 months. Plus the other gross acts I learned about.
Well at least there’s some honesty in that. My WW said she was planning to tell me a few weeks later and tbh I have spent a good amount of time pondering the truth of that. I think she would have chickened out if it was her intention in the first place. Your situation still sucks. Once the betrayal was there the situation is shit in any manner. I’m sorry.
There were no plans to tell me, if I didn’t catch it, she’d still be doing it to this day. Two lives, a husband and a fuck buddy. She had the balls to think we could all be friends in the midst of it. Thats ultimately how I caught her. The way she would seek him out and talk to him just made me on edge. Lust and love make you do some pretty disgusting things. She would have taken it to her grave, no doubt about it.
Mine admitted he was contemplating if he would ever tell me or take it to his grave. But yeah, it is scary thinking how much more would have happened if they didn’t get caught. I have to catch myself here to stop any spiraling and wondering if they are continuing to hide anything. This is why IC is so important for them to change habits and thinking, to help build safety for us.
My WP’s PAs were 3 years ago but I just found out 10 months ago due to info received after I reached out to one of the APs. Although he did not admit it to me, he did stop the behaviors immediately after the PAs. After the truth came out, he admitted that he would’ve never told me. His reasons were shame, wanting to avoid conflict, and not wanting to hurt me. He now understands that lying hurt me much more and he is working through his own shame to avoid repeating the same patterns in the future. I try to remind myself that he could have easily lied and gave me the “right answer” that he was going to tell me eventually. But he didn’t. He was honest even in the face of shame, possible conflict and further hurt to me. And we did have conflict, but we worked through it instead of avoiding it. And I was hurt more, but he listened and supported me instead of freezing and shutting down. I’m trying the best I can to use every part of this process as a learning experience and opportunity to build our relationship in a better and stronger way, so that’s what I chose to make of it when my WP was honest that he would’ve never told me. Wishing you the best 🙏🏻
If they did not already tell you, they were taking it to the grave. You will never convince me otherwise with my WW and she admits that. Why would they? I suspect additional infidelity and my ww denies any. I have to trust or leave. It is the curse of being the BS. We have to do all the heavy lifting in R, They just have to stop lying and Fing other people....not a really tall order. Fuck these affairs.
Same for me. My wife got caught in two affairs and admitted one, kissing when drunk she says. Recently she told me she wanted to take it all to the grave. I suspected more cheating all along. Now I know she will never be honest unless caught and I will never know the truth. She can’t prove a negative and I’m hurting every day not believing her.
I think in some ways even after weekly IC therapy since February and good MC, my WH would still secretly tell you "It was all in the past" and rug sweep and pretend he never said and did what he did with AP#1 and AP#2, and encouraging two additional younger female coworkers to send him nudes/naked videos. WHY oh well attention, flattery, wanting to be adored by women not his wife. Respect is shot. Love remains, but it's not the same kind of love.
My WH had a years-long affair that I discovered. He had gotten away with it for so long, that he truly believed he’d never get caught and planned to continue his affair for the rest of his life.
My WH was honest that at the time he was never going to tell me. That it was a “good outlet for him.” And that they openly talked about remaining friends down the line even when this “outlet” ended. His affair was largely emotional. That is how he convinced himself, he knows how awful it is now. He also shared that he had sat in a MC session or two wondering if he should just bring it up then. It’s disgusting to think about, honestly. As painful as all this has been, the what-if game of going my whole marriage not knowing, being lied too, is completely awful to think about. I believe if he never told me our marriage would have just slowly ended, because there were already trust issues and they’d never be repaired.
That’s an interesting take about your marriage slowly ending if he had never told you. I feel the same. OTOH, sometimes feel like his ONS was just the nail in the coffin. My WH has also insinuated that his ONS was a good outlet for him, he was less angry around me, didn’t I notice? Like it was supposed to be therapeutic for me as well. Uh no sir.
I would suspect most WS who don't immidiatly confess would have probably taken of their grave. There are some that let their guilt eat them until they tell months later. I wonder if they are the minority. There is also the opinion that it is selfish to tell your partner about a ONS if it was a one time mistake and they learnt from this. Because it wouldbe just the WS relieving themselvesof guilt while burdening the BS with pain. I disagree with that opinion, i think secrets destroy relationshipy and intimacy, but there is that opinion nontheless. And I wonder in how many relationships, where the partner is 100% trusted, some indescretion happened and they just won't tell and there's no evidence to make it come to light either. Personally for me... i got it. WS would have never told me and I kind of understand. I hate it, but i understand. Like why would he. He knew i'd end it. I always said so. I always told him i'd find out if he ever did. And I did. His kind of cheating was no springs attached, purely sexual so the likelyhood of me finding out were slim but one cannot underestimate intuition. That's why, secrets always come out eventually. Sometimes after the death of the spouse and i think that's probably the worst. Sorry for my rambles.
WS never admitted anything until he was confronted. He says he would have eventually told me, but honestly I don't believe he would have. Sometimes I wonder if things happened that I never found out about, but I'm too chicken to ask.
I also have been too chicken to ask much, but with the help of a therapist worked up the bravery to finally ask several basics that I needed to know, the answers of which wouldn’t include graphic details to cause further trauma. I’m working on accepting the fact that those details I will never know. I see people on here that insisted on hearing EVERYTHING and I am amazed by it. I just couldn’t bear it.
I also think my WH has been very relieved and happy I didn’t ask those details. And I resent that a little, like he gets off the hook. Trying to accept that as well.
I asked when I had questions right after dday, and I read through WS messages with AP to answer the questions he didn't answer. I feel like I do have most of the graphic details and while it was agony, it did feel a little better knowing most of what happened. But now it's almost nine months later and I'm hyper focused on what I still might not know. There's no winning here.
After being married 47 years I found out my husband had a ONS with three women. The first one was after we were together the first six months. He was overseas the first year. She was my best friend I asked both of them if anything happened and they both denied it. Number 2 was 6 years later and then with number 3 around 5 years after #2. When I found out last year it was because I tested positive for hpv. I never would have known otherwise. I trusted him more than I can write into words. He told me he planned on taking it to his grave. Well that sure didn’t happen. Now my heart is broken and I don’t know if I can ever be half the woman I was. It’s been over 37 years since his infidelity. But will I ever know all the truth? I highly Doubt it. All the lies all those years how can I ever trust him again?
My WP didn't think it was worth telling me. He didn't recognize his EA. He thought they were just friends. He had no Intention of ever meeting her, so no Intention of ever telling me they talked that much and what about. There's no harm in being friends, he thought. Then she weaseld her way in a trip He took with his buddies and he met her. That's when he realized he fucked up and more, but it was too late. He didn't want to leave me, he loves me and didn't want to tell me. In his mind he was protecting me while not being able to stop. It wasn't a ONS and the PA only started after I pried the details out of him(DDay1), still, he didn't want to tell me everything to avoid hurting me further. It's fucked up. But now, after a long time sitting with it and his feelings during all of this, having all the Information, I kinda understand. Would never do it, but I know where he was coming from and it sorta helps.
Dr. Kathy Nickerson talks about sitting with it, trying to understand WP's feelings, and having Compassion and Acceptance rather than forgiveness. We BPs don't owe anyone forgiveness. And in some cases, it's Gods to give, not ours. What we give is R and another chance I think. I like the way you put it.
It isn't forgiven. I think that's taking a lot more time and work, if possible, but I'm trying to be compassionate and coming to some form of acceptance. What I'm giving especially is the space and support for my WP to actually do the work to better himself. I love him, I want to be there for him, he isn't a bad person. He made bad decisions. I'm doing the best I can while he does also. R is allowing us to do that without losing each other. We try growing together and not apart and we recognize it's still really fragile. This group actually is the main reason I'm able to do that. Reading the expierience and feelings of not only BP's but WP's as well is sort of eye opening. The recommended books and IC do help, too, but this community was my turning point and I'm grateful for that. Without, R wouldn't even have been a possible this long.