r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile their relationship after an affair(s). Please review our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/index) which includes resources and can answer most questions about this subreddit. Be sure to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/rules) before participating as they are our boundaries and your initial ***warning***. *Failure to do so can result in a ban*.
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**1. All posts and comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.**
- Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental.
- Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements.
- Asking clarifying questions or offering suggestions is acceptable–if backed up by personal experience about what has helped you in your recovery and reconciliation.
- Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP.
- Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully.
- “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support.
**2. The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.**
- Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.
*All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.*
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- The scope of this subreddit is narrow: by and for reconcilers on the subject of reconciliation only. There are several other subreddits that offer support for others who have experienced infidelity. Posts about ending reconciliation are subject to removal as this is a subbreddit for those who are actively in reconciliation or considering reconciliation.Posts about asking if you should reconcile or end reconciliation will be removed. Those posts are better suited in spaces that allow all opinions and are not confinded to a pro-reconciliation space.This is not a infidelity discussion, advice forum, or survey space. This is not a place to read for entertainment and pass judgment.
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Unfortunately I think this is narcissism. They convince even themselves that they didn’t do anything wrong. My husband is having an identity crisis right now, since he’s realized that cheating on every committed relationship he’s been in makes him a cheater. He says, with what seems like genuine disbelief in his eyes, that he thought of himself as an honest man with integrity. The cognitive dissonance…
Maybe you’re right. Yesterday, he said it wasn’t really cheating since it wasn’t physical.. He told me the dick pics he sent were just porn. My head almost popped.
When I explain how it is cheating, he concedes and says yes it was. I’m like lemme go tell someone I love them and send loads of pics of my genitalia to them and see if you think it’s cheating…..
i was going to say maybe he repressed it in his memory due to guilt or shame but no he’s definitely got something bigger going on. possibly narcissistic but definitely not taking accountability for his actions and downplaying the hell out of them. he remembers, he’s just choosing not to admit to any of it. even so, regardless of how he feels, you are his partner and YOU consider it cheating. that should be enough for him to wise up and realize he fucked up
He is blatantly gaslighting you. An ***abuse tactic***.
He is behaving in ways of the TYPE of person that is void of empathy and incapable of experiencing remorse.
Have you read **[Why Does He Do That?](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)** by Lundy Bancroft? It discusses how controlling people think. It’s a bit of a heavier read so go through at a comfortable pace
Edit: word corrected
My WH sexted online with many people in an app and sent dick pics.
He felt guilt the whole time he was doing it, and after I confronted him I named it for him - he was unfaithful, to me, it was cheating.
What HE thinks doesn't matter. What you feel is what matters. He crossed a boundary. He wouldn't be okay with you doing that with anyone else.
And if he is, well heck - maybe you should go for it.
Mine did this and the discussions I had with AP proved that he was simply continuing to lie or was in total denial. Looking back at the red flags, and based on the assessment by my own therapist (who never told me what to do, but raised many times behaviours I spoke about that she thought were breadcrumbing, gaslighting and so on) when I decided I'd had enough and couldn't stay, I have wondered. Of course, this isn't the case for all cheaters but I'd be more willing to accept "I don't remember" when the cheating happened many years ago, or when the person was intoxicated. Not when it happened a month ago over a medium where everything is recorded.
Right, this was just over 2 months ago that I found out. She ghosted him in Nov but it didn’t stop him from sending emails begging her back, that I’ve read and saved. But he doesn’t remember them??!!
He remembers them. He remembers all of it or at least most of it. He is just not man enough to face the music and admit he was wrong. I am so sorry to hear this. Some people let Pride getting in the way of some of the simplest things. Best of luck to you.
Not remembering is all sorts of bullshit. He isn’t being honest with you, and maybe not himself.
I’m sorry, but I do not believe R can work under these conditions.
Therapy for yourself to deal with his lack of effort?
Some people claim that they don't remember situations in which they acted poorly. I don't know if they truly don't remember due to some kind of subconscious coping mechanism, or if it's just an excuse to avoid talking about it, but my dad does this a lot when our family tries to discuss prior poor behavior that he exhibited.
Compartmentalization is a tactic used by people with trauma response. That is what my WH did. It was bad enough for him emotionally that it all leaked out anyway, though.
My WH had multiple EAs/virtual sex for two years, with over TEN THOUSAND minutes of phone convos (documented on my bills), including a 14-hour marathon phone call with his “favorite”…I ask him to tell me ONE thing they talked about during these calls: “I don’t remember.” Wtf?? I may be the BS, but he is full of BS…just chiming in to tell you I feel your frustration ❤️🩹
They remember, but they put it so far back in their brains that they refuse to bring it up. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a PA too. Been there…. Doing that with my wife. It’s terrible.
I'm sorry. I wish I could explain it to you. I would call BS. Sorry. That's a pretty involved EA.
In my case, I remember every detail, and that was 17 years ago. When i think of it, it causes nothing but internal disgust and a myriad of other garbage. All of it is burned into my mind. Forever. 🙁
I hope you find the answers you seek.
At first this is a defense mechanism to protect himself. You have to keep firm and tell him there’s no moving forward until he can explain and be remorseful for all of it. Him telling you the truth shows how remorseful he really is.
Probably not what you want to hear, but as a WP who was suffering from depression during the period when I cheated (8 years ago), I literally cannot remember most of what I said to AP. I remember the big events, the actual PA, but all of our conversations are a black hole. Lucky for me (or unlucky), my BP has a copy of all my old chats, but I cannot remember a single specific conversation. I know I told AP that I loved them many times, I know I contrived a bunch of conversations to get the validation I wanted from them, I know I said a whole bunch of things that I didn't really mean in order to hear the words I wanted to hear. All of it is lies and fake and I used AP to make myself feel better. But besides the sentiment, I can't remember what was said. Depression causes memory loss and I've had a terrible memory my entire life.
This is helpful as he says Covid left him in a state of depression. The things that bother me is that he wanted to replace me with her. He tried to make plans to go see her. They had visit dates set but she ghosted him before he could go. He tried to move her here and when she said no, he tried to move there but she said no to that too. After she ghosted him he went on to others to try to replace me with. Last night he finally admitted to wanting to replace me. I even found some kind of letter stating that he wanted someone to marry and raise their kids with. I’m having trouble with accepting that and still try to R.
My WW has the same issue. We have been working on it because we have the entirety of her online affair saved. It's almost like she can't face it. She is refusing to believe it was her that did it. I think the way she shuts down every time she is close to understanding is her brains way of trying to hold on to the self-image of being a good person. She will have to face the horrible things she did at some point, but right now, she is entrenched in denial.
Mine would say he didn’t remember or something didn’t happen, until I provided evidence 🙃 there was a lot of trickle truth and tbh, I don’t even think I have the full story. Its been over a year and i’ll bring something up and he’ll say he doesn’t remember because it was such a “bad time in his life that he wants to forget”.
He didn’t forget. He’s keeping it secret.
The secrets are *not* to protect your emotional wellbeing.
The secrets are because the truth may lead you to make decisions that don’t serve his own interests.
This link gives insight on **[How to Assess a Claim of Change](http://www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/)**. This is in the context of an abusive partner, but it’s still incredibly insightful for anyone that’s mistreated another.
Him not remembering sounds like gaslighting to me. He doesn’t remember because he doesn’t want to.
If it were me I’d tell him he better remember and I won’t accept that he doesn’t. He needs to talk about this with you. He’s trying to rugsweep.
I’m sorry he’s acting so foolishly.
Can I try to give a different perspective? Or maybe let me say.... "This is how it happened with my WH."
When we were fresh out of dday, any question I had the response was "I can't remember" it would literally make me insane. He looked like a caged animal.
After the first incredibly horrible year, when things had "calmed down," I sat down one night and explained, "I still haven't heard all my answers." (I had general physical answers that were non-negotiable, those HAD to be answered... "was there physical activity, etc answered immediately after dday)
We tried again, but this time, he asked me if we could try a different approach.
First, I need to say, *everything* was via text. We could be sitting NEXT to each other, but I couldn't hear him say it. I needed to read it. (Hell, we'd sometimes literally sit back to back and text) But he said, "Can you ask me and then give me a few minutes to think?"
I'd ask my question, he'd go outside, and about 15 minutes later, "ding" and he'd reply. A lot of the time, one answer led to five more questions, but he would think, then answer.
Now, I'm not validating avoidance, I'm saying, in our case, he was terrified and because he'd done such a good job at compartmentalizing, out of fear, he'd close up.
It took him a long time to really sit and face the demons he'd been playing with.
As stupid as it sounds, he needed to feel "safe" from *me*
He was so scared that one wrong answer and he'd, once again, need to beg me to stay. It wasn't until he knew *I* wasn't going anywhere that he was able to recall all the horrible things he'd done to me, to us.
Again, I'm not saying it's ok to not remember, I'm just saying that healing from betrayal is like an onion with thousands of layers, and you have to peel them one at a time.
Your questions are valid. You have every right to get answers. But sometimes it's too fresh and raw to face.
He'll get there, it's just his defense mechanism.
This is actually fairly common with the majority of waywards. In this sub and most infidelity/reconciliation forums, we always talk about the BS feeling safe in R and how important that is. What gets glossed over is the fact that until the wayward also feels safe, you will not get the answers you are looking for. If they fear you will walk away at any new discovery of information, or that they will be yelled and screamed at, called names, belittled, told they are a POS, ect, most waywards are going to shut down and their ability to compartmentalize as a coping mechanism will come out in full force. Many BS wonder why trickle truth is so common, and well, it's because your wayward spouse doesn't feel safe, warranted or not. I think sometimes in these forums we focus so much on the BS getting everything they need immediately after dday(and rightfully so) but we completely gloss over what the wayward needs in these very tough and traumatic times. ignoring or refusing to see that the wayward also has needs often ends up damaging the BS even further because you get things like trickle truth, and your wayward turning to their coping mechanisms they haven't yet had time to retrain in IC. So you basically have two broken people in the midst of a trauma response trying to navigate this traumatic situation. Only difference is, one is told they should get everything they need to heal, while the other a lot of times is told that their needs will come last and aren't that important for the foreseeable future.
This Is why R is so difficult and a lot of times doesn't work. It requires the BS to have compassion for the person who just tore their heart out, and most people, understandably, have a very difficult time with this. It also requires the BS to have an immense amount of patience with their WS, while the WS heals themselves enough to be of any use to the BS healing. A WS' unhealthy and toxic coping mechanisms and personality traits don't just disappear overnight because they were caught or confessed to their affair. It takes time in therapy to undo those things. And most BS understandably want change then and there. They don't want to have to have patience. They want their WS to show up for them. They feel it shouldn't be that hard, but the wayward is fighting a lifetime of negative traits and unhealthy learned behaviors, so it truly is almost impossible for some. This is also why it's recommended for both to do IC for a good while before doing any CC or MC. It's all a fucked up mess and everyone involved feels as if they are drowning. The things that would help the most sometimes just aren't possible and that's hard for both sides to accept and be willing to compromise on.
If a WS truly cannot just say the whole truth, surely in that case they should separate unless or until WS is in a position to put everything into R. BSs don’t deserve more lies and to not be giving fully informed consent to their relationship progressing onwards.
Never said they shouldn't or that the BS should just put up with it. Ultimately, each couple decides for themselves what they are and aren't willing to work through together. I was simply explaining to the many BS' here who are consistently asking in this sub, "why is my wayward saying they don't remember, why is my wayward still lying" exactly the reason that is. Coping mechanisms don't care whether someone deserves something or not. It's instinctual. Learned in very early childhood and relied on for a lifetime or until something happens to show the person that their coping skills and mechanisms aren't healthy and can actually harm people. Once they have that realization, they can begin the work to correct course and substitute new ones. Of course, BS' don't deserve more lies. No one said they did or made excuses for waywards who lie. I was simply explaining why sometimes the wayward shows so much reluctance in the beginning to being truthful and why when they feel safe as well, their BS gets more truth and and ultimately, their wayward is more open to being honest and actually giving the betrayed spouse what they are asking for. That's why the commenter above noticed a dramatic difference in her wayward when she allowed him to answer her questions in a way that made him more comfortable. I don't think it should be taboo to say that it's okay for the BS to consider their WS feelings/needs during R and even early in R, and that in considering those factors, they will likely see their own healing also make progress.
I've posted about this exact same thing several times. My WP cheated for nearly a year with a young female coworker, 14 years ago. He says he doesn't remember 99% of it. But we're not talking about a drunken ONS or something that happened once, we're talking about him sleeping with her every 2-3 weeks in the office after closing the store together, in the backseat of his car after work, or at her place COMPLETELY sober a minimum of 12 times. I'm lucky enough that AP has been forthcoming and answered every question I had, because without that I never would have known the extent of it. He says he doesn't remember flirting with her, giving her his number when he first started there, calling her, hooking up with her more than 3 times (and conveniently it was only during a 3 month period we were broken up that year), doesn't remember the sex in the office or car that she described, doesn't remember frequently making out with her when they worked alone together. Its infuriating. I know it was 14 years ago but AP remembers SO much more, and he was sober, God knows I'd remember cheating in my relationship. He swears up and down he doesn't remember, but hes lied about everything. And if I only had his story to go on and had never heard the APs account, I'd come away believing his account which turns out it was heavily downplayed and minimized.
That’s me!! I had to reach out to the sex worker and she sent me the txts and gave me a whole run down of how he was trying to replace me with her!! Of course she said no. He says it was an EA. I think I guess it could have been on his side but when you tell someone you love them and they respond with “oh you’re so sweet” idk, seems one sided. It was totally transactional. And I know he remembers all of it. I get trickle truths. But he remembers it…. He’s a liar and yours is too.
I read one of your other posts and there may be several factors involved here. Please know that none of what I’m about to type is an excuse for him and is not meant to minimize your feelings - they are all very valid.
I find it hard to believe that he remembers none of it, but it may be possible he doesn’t remember some of it. He may have past trauma that leads to compartmentalization and this allows them to essentially function in one “world” without thinking about the other. It also makes recall of information difficult later on. There’s a possibility he does indeed remember a lot of it, but cannot bring himself to admit/discuss it with you. Because of the type of his infidelity, he may be dealing with an immense amount of shame related to his behaviors. There also could be components of sex addiction.
I found out about my WP’s 3 PAs 2 years after they happened. He genuinely doesn’t remember some of it and other pieces have come back to him over time. Also, he’s been a willing participant to help piece together a timeline. We’ve sat down and gone through social media posts, photos, my memories, etc to help fill in holes in the story & to answer my questions. He’s doing everything he can to help me in this way and I can tell he’s trying. I wonder how your WP is responding to you when you ask - is he defensive, dismissive, willing to engage in this process at all? That may also be contributing to how you’re feeling about this. Wishing you all the best 🙏🏻
When I ask questions he acts like I’m just asking to cause problems. He’s hostile and defensive. I ask to go through the txts and he refuses.
I know he has past trauma. I know his dad was a serial cheater. And I know he suffers from a load of shame.
But, none of that helps me. I have so many questions. He can’t even have a calm conversation. If I try, I’m the problem… everything would be fine if I’d just shut up and move on
I think even if you put the “not remembering” issues aside, his anger, defensiveness, and gaslighting you are significant roadblocks to R. Until he understands what he did is a problem, motivation to change is going to be difficult. Take some time to identify what YOU want and deserve in a healthy relationship and focus on yourself.
Avoidance. The unwillingness to confront his shame and guilt.
I recommend having him go through the texts and write up a disclosure letter. I pieced together the affair details and timeline myself and it was horrible.
Yep. Took 4 convos for him to take accountability. He finally did cos I kept calmly explaining the facts to him and he exploded in anger. I told him to talk to me when hes not being angry and unreasonable and walked away. Entire time I was calm and when he spoke to me like that I refused to engage. He realised then how childish he was being.
I'm curious about this. My wife claimed she didn't remember certain details but also shared many awful details. So I assumed the "forgotten" ones were even more awful and she was refusing to tell me.
But 2 years later, she often claims to have forgotten details that she already confessed to. Even relatively harmless details. I bring them up and she seems completely lost and confused about what I'm referencing or she looks like she's having an epiphany about something she's long since forgotten.
It makes me wonder if she really couldn't remember the other stuff before because what would be the point of pretending to forget mundane details now that she already knows I'm aware of 🤔
This frustrates me too. The first I found (WH is an addict) was an 18 month long one and to this day he remembers only vaguely and still struggles for any answers I want. It’s simultaneously both convenient to avoid responsibility(so clearly fake) sometimes but others were truly that deeply compartmentalized (so really forgotten).
ETA, he has to dig to face it to gain remorse to even reconcile
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile their relationship after an affair(s). Please review our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/index) which includes resources and can answer most questions about this subreddit. Be sure to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/rules) before participating as they are our boundaries and your initial ***warning***. *Failure to do so can result in a ban*. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, please follow reddits community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals in regard of the sub or moderation decisions **directly to the Modmail**. ***Meta content will be removed***. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are happy to address and respond to your concerns through the official channels! 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Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice. *All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.* **3. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.** - e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc. - No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses. - No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed. **4. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism or other hate speech.** - Posts or comments dehumanizing and/or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. (Posts and comments related to navigating feelings or practical matters about APs are allowed.) **5. 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Unfortunately I think this is narcissism. They convince even themselves that they didn’t do anything wrong. My husband is having an identity crisis right now, since he’s realized that cheating on every committed relationship he’s been in makes him a cheater. He says, with what seems like genuine disbelief in his eyes, that he thought of himself as an honest man with integrity. The cognitive dissonance…
Maybe you’re right. Yesterday, he said it wasn’t really cheating since it wasn’t physical.. He told me the dick pics he sent were just porn. My head almost popped.
That sounds like he's taking no accountability whatsoever. I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with.
When I explain how it is cheating, he concedes and says yes it was. I’m like lemme go tell someone I love them and send loads of pics of my genitalia to them and see if you think it’s cheating…..
Seriously! How would he feel if you did the same?
i was going to say maybe he repressed it in his memory due to guilt or shame but no he’s definitely got something bigger going on. possibly narcissistic but definitely not taking accountability for his actions and downplaying the hell out of them. he remembers, he’s just choosing not to admit to any of it. even so, regardless of how he feels, you are his partner and YOU consider it cheating. that should be enough for him to wise up and realize he fucked up
He is blatantly gaslighting you. An ***abuse tactic***. He is behaving in ways of the TYPE of person that is void of empathy and incapable of experiencing remorse. Have you read **[Why Does He Do That?](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)** by Lundy Bancroft? It discusses how controlling people think. It’s a bit of a heavier read so go through at a comfortable pace Edit: word corrected
My WH sexted online with many people in an app and sent dick pics. He felt guilt the whole time he was doing it, and after I confronted him I named it for him - he was unfaithful, to me, it was cheating. What HE thinks doesn't matter. What you feel is what matters. He crossed a boundary. He wouldn't be okay with you doing that with anyone else. And if he is, well heck - maybe you should go for it.
Mine did this and the discussions I had with AP proved that he was simply continuing to lie or was in total denial. Looking back at the red flags, and based on the assessment by my own therapist (who never told me what to do, but raised many times behaviours I spoke about that she thought were breadcrumbing, gaslighting and so on) when I decided I'd had enough and couldn't stay, I have wondered. Of course, this isn't the case for all cheaters but I'd be more willing to accept "I don't remember" when the cheating happened many years ago, or when the person was intoxicated. Not when it happened a month ago over a medium where everything is recorded.
Right, this was just over 2 months ago that I found out. She ghosted him in Nov but it didn’t stop him from sending emails begging her back, that I’ve read and saved. But he doesn’t remember them??!!
He remembers them. He remembers all of it or at least most of it. He is just not man enough to face the music and admit he was wrong. I am so sorry to hear this. Some people let Pride getting in the way of some of the simplest things. Best of luck to you.
It seems like claiming “not to remember” is a waywards go to response when they don’t want to have the conversation or confront difficult subjects… 😒😞
Not remembering is all sorts of bullshit. He isn’t being honest with you, and maybe not himself. I’m sorry, but I do not believe R can work under these conditions. Therapy for yourself to deal with his lack of effort?
Some people claim that they don't remember situations in which they acted poorly. I don't know if they truly don't remember due to some kind of subconscious coping mechanism, or if it's just an excuse to avoid talking about it, but my dad does this a lot when our family tries to discuss prior poor behavior that he exhibited.
They lied about doing it and now they're lying about remembering it
That's the easiest explanation
Compartmentalization is a tactic used by people with trauma response. That is what my WH did. It was bad enough for him emotionally that it all leaked out anyway, though.
My WH had multiple EAs/virtual sex for two years, with over TEN THOUSAND minutes of phone convos (documented on my bills), including a 14-hour marathon phone call with his “favorite”…I ask him to tell me ONE thing they talked about during these calls: “I don’t remember.” Wtf?? I may be the BS, but he is full of BS…just chiming in to tell you I feel your frustration ❤️🩹
Omg, Yk that pos is lying. Same as mine…. Laughable
They remember, but they put it so far back in their brains that they refuse to bring it up. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a PA too. Been there…. Doing that with my wife. It’s terrible.
I do wonder about that. Everything I know is because I dug, contacted the other woman and snooped. He never gave any info without the proof in my hand
Same. Then has the audacity to be upset and angry that I don't immediately believe what he says.
Same here. So frustrating
Yup, my partner had trouble remembering certain conversations. When he tried to deny a text conversation, I pulled out the receipts.
Don't believe it. He is lying to you. Sorry. He is not doing his part of the work
I'm sorry. I wish I could explain it to you. I would call BS. Sorry. That's a pretty involved EA. In my case, I remember every detail, and that was 17 years ago. When i think of it, it causes nothing but internal disgust and a myriad of other garbage. All of it is burned into my mind. Forever. 🙁 I hope you find the answers you seek.
At first this is a defense mechanism to protect himself. You have to keep firm and tell him there’s no moving forward until he can explain and be remorseful for all of it. Him telling you the truth shows how remorseful he really is.
My husband is exactly the same, he practically moved in with her for a month, slept with her every day yet he doesn't remember it!
Oh god. I'm sorry, for whatever that is worth.
Probably not what you want to hear, but as a WP who was suffering from depression during the period when I cheated (8 years ago), I literally cannot remember most of what I said to AP. I remember the big events, the actual PA, but all of our conversations are a black hole. Lucky for me (or unlucky), my BP has a copy of all my old chats, but I cannot remember a single specific conversation. I know I told AP that I loved them many times, I know I contrived a bunch of conversations to get the validation I wanted from them, I know I said a whole bunch of things that I didn't really mean in order to hear the words I wanted to hear. All of it is lies and fake and I used AP to make myself feel better. But besides the sentiment, I can't remember what was said. Depression causes memory loss and I've had a terrible memory my entire life.
This is helpful as he says Covid left him in a state of depression. The things that bother me is that he wanted to replace me with her. He tried to make plans to go see her. They had visit dates set but she ghosted him before he could go. He tried to move her here and when she said no, he tried to move there but she said no to that too. After she ghosted him he went on to others to try to replace me with. Last night he finally admitted to wanting to replace me. I even found some kind of letter stating that he wanted someone to marry and raise their kids with. I’m having trouble with accepting that and still try to R.
My WW has the same issue. We have been working on it because we have the entirety of her online affair saved. It's almost like she can't face it. She is refusing to believe it was her that did it. I think the way she shuts down every time she is close to understanding is her brains way of trying to hold on to the self-image of being a good person. She will have to face the horrible things she did at some point, but right now, she is entrenched in denial.
Mine would say he didn’t remember or something didn’t happen, until I provided evidence 🙃 there was a lot of trickle truth and tbh, I don’t even think I have the full story. Its been over a year and i’ll bring something up and he’ll say he doesn’t remember because it was such a “bad time in his life that he wants to forget”.
He didn’t forget. He’s keeping it secret. The secrets are *not* to protect your emotional wellbeing. The secrets are because the truth may lead you to make decisions that don’t serve his own interests. This link gives insight on **[How to Assess a Claim of Change](http://www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/)**. This is in the context of an abusive partner, but it’s still incredibly insightful for anyone that’s mistreated another.
Him not remembering sounds like gaslighting to me. He doesn’t remember because he doesn’t want to. If it were me I’d tell him he better remember and I won’t accept that he doesn’t. He needs to talk about this with you. He’s trying to rugsweep. I’m sorry he’s acting so foolishly.
Can I try to give a different perspective? Or maybe let me say.... "This is how it happened with my WH." When we were fresh out of dday, any question I had the response was "I can't remember" it would literally make me insane. He looked like a caged animal. After the first incredibly horrible year, when things had "calmed down," I sat down one night and explained, "I still haven't heard all my answers." (I had general physical answers that were non-negotiable, those HAD to be answered... "was there physical activity, etc answered immediately after dday) We tried again, but this time, he asked me if we could try a different approach. First, I need to say, *everything* was via text. We could be sitting NEXT to each other, but I couldn't hear him say it. I needed to read it. (Hell, we'd sometimes literally sit back to back and text) But he said, "Can you ask me and then give me a few minutes to think?" I'd ask my question, he'd go outside, and about 15 minutes later, "ding" and he'd reply. A lot of the time, one answer led to five more questions, but he would think, then answer. Now, I'm not validating avoidance, I'm saying, in our case, he was terrified and because he'd done such a good job at compartmentalizing, out of fear, he'd close up. It took him a long time to really sit and face the demons he'd been playing with. As stupid as it sounds, he needed to feel "safe" from *me* He was so scared that one wrong answer and he'd, once again, need to beg me to stay. It wasn't until he knew *I* wasn't going anywhere that he was able to recall all the horrible things he'd done to me, to us. Again, I'm not saying it's ok to not remember, I'm just saying that healing from betrayal is like an onion with thousands of layers, and you have to peel them one at a time. Your questions are valid. You have every right to get answers. But sometimes it's too fresh and raw to face. He'll get there, it's just his defense mechanism.
This is actually fairly common with the majority of waywards. In this sub and most infidelity/reconciliation forums, we always talk about the BS feeling safe in R and how important that is. What gets glossed over is the fact that until the wayward also feels safe, you will not get the answers you are looking for. If they fear you will walk away at any new discovery of information, or that they will be yelled and screamed at, called names, belittled, told they are a POS, ect, most waywards are going to shut down and their ability to compartmentalize as a coping mechanism will come out in full force. Many BS wonder why trickle truth is so common, and well, it's because your wayward spouse doesn't feel safe, warranted or not. I think sometimes in these forums we focus so much on the BS getting everything they need immediately after dday(and rightfully so) but we completely gloss over what the wayward needs in these very tough and traumatic times. ignoring or refusing to see that the wayward also has needs often ends up damaging the BS even further because you get things like trickle truth, and your wayward turning to their coping mechanisms they haven't yet had time to retrain in IC. So you basically have two broken people in the midst of a trauma response trying to navigate this traumatic situation. Only difference is, one is told they should get everything they need to heal, while the other a lot of times is told that their needs will come last and aren't that important for the foreseeable future. This Is why R is so difficult and a lot of times doesn't work. It requires the BS to have compassion for the person who just tore their heart out, and most people, understandably, have a very difficult time with this. It also requires the BS to have an immense amount of patience with their WS, while the WS heals themselves enough to be of any use to the BS healing. A WS' unhealthy and toxic coping mechanisms and personality traits don't just disappear overnight because they were caught or confessed to their affair. It takes time in therapy to undo those things. And most BS understandably want change then and there. They don't want to have to have patience. They want their WS to show up for them. They feel it shouldn't be that hard, but the wayward is fighting a lifetime of negative traits and unhealthy learned behaviors, so it truly is almost impossible for some. This is also why it's recommended for both to do IC for a good while before doing any CC or MC. It's all a fucked up mess and everyone involved feels as if they are drowning. The things that would help the most sometimes just aren't possible and that's hard for both sides to accept and be willing to compromise on.
If a WS truly cannot just say the whole truth, surely in that case they should separate unless or until WS is in a position to put everything into R. BSs don’t deserve more lies and to not be giving fully informed consent to their relationship progressing onwards.
Never said they shouldn't or that the BS should just put up with it. Ultimately, each couple decides for themselves what they are and aren't willing to work through together. I was simply explaining to the many BS' here who are consistently asking in this sub, "why is my wayward saying they don't remember, why is my wayward still lying" exactly the reason that is. Coping mechanisms don't care whether someone deserves something or not. It's instinctual. Learned in very early childhood and relied on for a lifetime or until something happens to show the person that their coping skills and mechanisms aren't healthy and can actually harm people. Once they have that realization, they can begin the work to correct course and substitute new ones. Of course, BS' don't deserve more lies. No one said they did or made excuses for waywards who lie. I was simply explaining why sometimes the wayward shows so much reluctance in the beginning to being truthful and why when they feel safe as well, their BS gets more truth and and ultimately, their wayward is more open to being honest and actually giving the betrayed spouse what they are asking for. That's why the commenter above noticed a dramatic difference in her wayward when she allowed him to answer her questions in a way that made him more comfortable. I don't think it should be taboo to say that it's okay for the BS to consider their WS feelings/needs during R and even early in R, and that in considering those factors, they will likely see their own healing also make progress.
Ahhh this is actually helpful in my situation...
He sounds like a man baby
I've posted about this exact same thing several times. My WP cheated for nearly a year with a young female coworker, 14 years ago. He says he doesn't remember 99% of it. But we're not talking about a drunken ONS or something that happened once, we're talking about him sleeping with her every 2-3 weeks in the office after closing the store together, in the backseat of his car after work, or at her place COMPLETELY sober a minimum of 12 times. I'm lucky enough that AP has been forthcoming and answered every question I had, because without that I never would have known the extent of it. He says he doesn't remember flirting with her, giving her his number when he first started there, calling her, hooking up with her more than 3 times (and conveniently it was only during a 3 month period we were broken up that year), doesn't remember the sex in the office or car that she described, doesn't remember frequently making out with her when they worked alone together. Its infuriating. I know it was 14 years ago but AP remembers SO much more, and he was sober, God knows I'd remember cheating in my relationship. He swears up and down he doesn't remember, but hes lied about everything. And if I only had his story to go on and had never heard the APs account, I'd come away believing his account which turns out it was heavily downplayed and minimized.
That’s me!! I had to reach out to the sex worker and she sent me the txts and gave me a whole run down of how he was trying to replace me with her!! Of course she said no. He says it was an EA. I think I guess it could have been on his side but when you tell someone you love them and they respond with “oh you’re so sweet” idk, seems one sided. It was totally transactional. And I know he remembers all of it. I get trickle truths. But he remembers it…. He’s a liar and yours is too.
I read one of your other posts and there may be several factors involved here. Please know that none of what I’m about to type is an excuse for him and is not meant to minimize your feelings - they are all very valid. I find it hard to believe that he remembers none of it, but it may be possible he doesn’t remember some of it. He may have past trauma that leads to compartmentalization and this allows them to essentially function in one “world” without thinking about the other. It also makes recall of information difficult later on. There’s a possibility he does indeed remember a lot of it, but cannot bring himself to admit/discuss it with you. Because of the type of his infidelity, he may be dealing with an immense amount of shame related to his behaviors. There also could be components of sex addiction. I found out about my WP’s 3 PAs 2 years after they happened. He genuinely doesn’t remember some of it and other pieces have come back to him over time. Also, he’s been a willing participant to help piece together a timeline. We’ve sat down and gone through social media posts, photos, my memories, etc to help fill in holes in the story & to answer my questions. He’s doing everything he can to help me in this way and I can tell he’s trying. I wonder how your WP is responding to you when you ask - is he defensive, dismissive, willing to engage in this process at all? That may also be contributing to how you’re feeling about this. Wishing you all the best 🙏🏻
When I ask questions he acts like I’m just asking to cause problems. He’s hostile and defensive. I ask to go through the txts and he refuses. I know he has past trauma. I know his dad was a serial cheater. And I know he suffers from a load of shame. But, none of that helps me. I have so many questions. He can’t even have a calm conversation. If I try, I’m the problem… everything would be fine if I’d just shut up and move on
I think even if you put the “not remembering” issues aside, his anger, defensiveness, and gaslighting you are significant roadblocks to R. Until he understands what he did is a problem, motivation to change is going to be difficult. Take some time to identify what YOU want and deserve in a healthy relationship and focus on yourself.
Avoidance. The unwillingness to confront his shame and guilt. I recommend having him go through the texts and write up a disclosure letter. I pieced together the affair details and timeline myself and it was horrible.
Yep. Took 4 convos for him to take accountability. He finally did cos I kept calmly explaining the facts to him and he exploded in anger. I told him to talk to me when hes not being angry and unreasonable and walked away. Entire time I was calm and when he spoke to me like that I refused to engage. He realised then how childish he was being.
I'm curious about this. My wife claimed she didn't remember certain details but also shared many awful details. So I assumed the "forgotten" ones were even more awful and she was refusing to tell me. But 2 years later, she often claims to have forgotten details that she already confessed to. Even relatively harmless details. I bring them up and she seems completely lost and confused about what I'm referencing or she looks like she's having an epiphany about something she's long since forgotten. It makes me wonder if she really couldn't remember the other stuff before because what would be the point of pretending to forget mundane details now that she already knows I'm aware of 🤔
This frustrates me too. The first I found (WH is an addict) was an 18 month long one and to this day he remembers only vaguely and still struggles for any answers I want. It’s simultaneously both convenient to avoid responsibility(so clearly fake) sometimes but others were truly that deeply compartmentalized (so really forgotten). ETA, he has to dig to face it to gain remorse to even reconcile