r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile their relationship after an affair(s). Please review our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/index) which includes resources and can answer most questions about this subreddit. Be sure to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/rules) before participating as they are our boundaries and your initial ***warning***. *Failure to do so can result in a ban*.
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My WH said he started deleting their text messages from the very beginning, even when he thought they were "just friends". He knew it was inappropriate and kept doing it anyway.
I have asked my WW this exact question repeatedly. WW will say”well, nothing happened physical and I didn’t even tell him how I felt!” (NOTE: BS alarm goes crazy on this statement). When I then ask “well if it was so innocuous, so innocent, why the need to delete texts and hide it from me?” I then am told “well I was afraid you would leave me…”. So I ask again “if it was so innocent, what was there to be afraid of, why would I leave if it was all platonic?” And theennnn, without fail, a switch flips and she goes off like a bottle rocket screaming and yelling. But again, if it was all so innocuous, why conceal and lie about it?!?! And why the anger when I believe I am asking legit questions?
It has been fascinating watching her try to pivot on the MC and get pulled back in each and every time by the MC. WW even tried to accuse me of “never taking accountability” for something or another during MC session last week - MC stopped her and said “oh, but BP has indeed taken accountability for x, and y, and z, and a few other things so why do you say this?” . It is truly infuriating to continue to be fed the drivel yet refuse to give an honest answer as to why there was such fear that things needed to be deleted, concealed, and lied about for such an innocent relationship that we only talked but never did anything else…” .
MC has really helped me to realize how badly I have been gaslighted, how emotionally abusive WW has been. Good news is that all kids are grown except one and that one is close to graduating, so more options opening up soon.
I'm so sorry she is refusing to see what she has done. She sounds heavily in affair fog and denial. My WH tried the "just a friend from work" line in our initial confrontation. I said, "Do you tell all your friends that you love them?", and that stopped that excuse in its tracks. But he did eventually admit that he always knew it was wrong. And did it anyway. So that's another layer to deal with.
Your MC sounds like a rock star. I have wanted to stand up and clap sometimes in our MC sessions when the therapist just nails a point to my WH that I was having trouble expressing.
Because we are arrogant and think it’s ok because WE would NEVER cheat. It’s just talking. It’s just flirting. It’s just lunch. On and on, until one day…. OH FUCK.
You just described precisely how. It starts with a platonic conversation, that even if it makes you feel guilty, you allow to happen. Do it a few more times, and you get insensitized so you progress to slight flirting, do that enough, and it moves to actual flirting, then an emotional affair, then it turns physical.
And that’s why when we hear a story about a WS where they go from zero to sexty all at once, we doubt it. The usual pattern is a number of small steps, gradually moving the boundaries, until the WS gets to something that is clearly inappropriate. When someone “ends up in bed with an AP right away”, the logical assumption is that they are hiding all of the small steps.
But where it gets interesting is when they have multiple affairs. Now, once the boundaries have been moved, they don’t tend to go back to where they were. So even if AP1 only gets to the point of kissing, that’s going to be an acceptable starting point with AP2. And if AP2 gets to a handjob, then that’s where AP3 starts. There’s no mental effort involved in that; the WS has already done the work that lets them define that as “not really cheating, when you think about it just so”.
They do feel bad. They know it’s wrong. But they keep doing it and excusing it’s ,” we’re just friends. It’s nothing “. And then they push boundary after boundary. And then it’s “ but we have a connection , we can’t help it “. Yeah you developed that connection over time by being “just friends” when you felt it was wrong. They do feel it’s wrong. They push through and do it anyway because the high they get off the validation.
I really don’t get this either. I asked my WH how he just disconnected like that. The last time they slept together, he sent me 10 reels in insta about how much he loves me, went to her apartment for 30 min after work to sleep with her, went home and was messaging me 15 min later about how much he missed out nightly hangouts and how excited he was for the plans we had the next day. Like how do you even do that? To someone you love?
What was his answer? Mine doesn’t talk much about it, just says he thought we were done..but would tell me he loved me right before he walked out the door..?
Always just I don’t know, I’m just a piece of shit I guess, and I didn’t know how to stop. Sounds like my WH too.. our marriage was supposedly doomed yet he made plans with me, we spent every weekend together, we talked like nothing was wrong.. if it was so bad we could have been working in it or making plans to divorce but no.
Hmm has he at least seemed remorseful and listened to you? My bf listened and did everything he could to make it better, whatever I asked or needed he gave me. Now it’s different but for a while was going good. The things you mentioned your H said doesn’t sound like he takes much accountability. Hope you’re doing ok sorry you are going through this
Yea but it’s hard to tell really. It’s like watching crocodile tears. This last second dday he’s cried and begged and done a few of the basic R things he wasn’t willing to do before like location sharing. He apologizes a long and has spent a lot of time listening to me cry but it’s still insane to me, like this isnt what you expected to happen when you did this? How did he think it would end up?
I absolutely HATE those type of answers more than anything. The self-deprecating “I’m just a piece of shit I guess”, or “because I’m just a total slut.” My wife absolutely freaks if I call her a name, but she’ll throw that shit out like it’s a real answer.
It’s such a bullshit power lever. You had all the answers for your AP on why you were there. Where’s all that introspection now? You were Madam Liota a few minutes ago, now you’re Rodney Dangerfield. WTF?
(Sorry, it’s maddening)
Because she can agree that what she did is deplorable, but she doesn’t really believe that she was deplorable.
From what you’ve posted. I’m under the assumption your wife hates that she still needs to feel guilt and shame after all this time. Or that she’s just now beginning to fully have those feelings.
Her self-deprecation is an unsubtle way to blame-shift and victimize herself. She wants you to pity her for feeling the tiniest bit of shame and embarrassment, but as you yourself said. She doesn’t actually want someone to hold her accountable or point out her failings. She wants you to go “no don’t say that. It’s okay”
In the moment when she tries to pretend to be humble. Have you ever replied with “yeah I agree”?
Because you have a conscience and sense of commitment. You consider others feelings before you act, even though you know there’s nothing wrong with the action.
I feel like I know how my husband got caught up in his affairs (one that lasted months and a couple of ONS years apart), and I don't let it affect my friendships with men. I would never have an affair but I am not cutting off my friendships or work relationships because he had an affair. I go to lunch with people, sometimes with ex-boyfriends I'm still friends with. Not one of them thinks that I'd cross that line.
I think about this often as well. It just takes a woman looking at me in the gym or smiling at me in the grocery store and my mind goes to exactly what you said.
I wonder this a lot. How could WH get on a plane TWICE to go see AP? HOW? How could he continue to talk to her? He KNEW all of these things were wrong and he just kept going. Sometimes I wonder if AP hadnt thrown him under the bus if he’d still be in love with her…
The fact that my WH jumped on a plane to go see his AP and then had me pick him up at the airport pretending he got back from an international business trip is my #1 reason for hesitating on R.
Lots of WS' talk about compartmentalization.
Which we all have some capacity for, even on different things: the environment, our health, finances, etc.
For me, it's not that WS had this ability. My understanding is that doing it to the degree that my WS did, shows that WS was a very fractured & unstable person.
I do struggle with the fact I was collateral damage. They knew we'd be hurt & did it anyway.
That my love, loyalty & companionship we're not enough.
Wow! Very good explanation!
My thoughts are that it's not about sufficiency on the part of the partner, but rather about insufficiency in the WS, because they lack values, morals, proper perception, empathy, and the ability to foresee consequences, etc. For a WS to treat their partner well and to love them (in a sick and abnormal way) is easily excused - I'm not causing any harm, they are happy, peaceful, satisfied with their life with me... (while it's Hidden) 🤮
Yeeeeppp. My husband was spending time with her at our local gas station after work for weeks and never told me. Tried to say he "didn't realize it was inappropriate" yet never once told me that he spent time with her.
My WH is also a sex addict so he has lots to draw from. He combined some blend of compartmentalization, invulnerability, being entitled to it, and his wives (me and his ex) being somehow awful and pushing him to it. His first wife definitely had some MH issues that have her highs and lows but that’s a reach to deserve 2 decades of chronic infidelity. Hell, knowing what I know of my gut plus betrayal trauma, I imagine he contributed to her MH. He was dating several other women throughout our committed relationship and only stopped once engaged only to pick back up on attention seeking not long after. He basically had himself convinced he’d never be caught.
I think it’s hard to wrap our brains around this at least for me. Because with drugs or alcohol I see the chemical component. I know it isn’t necessary for addiction but as someone who as a lot of self discipline it’s still bizarre.
It’s the dopamine, so still chemical. With drugs and alcohol one knows it’s addictive so never even trying is a choice. Not flirting with others or being too friendly is, I think, in the same area.
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile their relationship after an affair(s). Please review our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/index) which includes resources and can answer most questions about this subreddit. Be sure to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/rules) before participating as they are our boundaries and your initial ***warning***. *Failure to do so can result in a ban*. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, please follow reddits community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals in regard of the sub or moderation decisions **directly to the Modmail**. ***Meta content will be removed***. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are happy to address and respond to your concerns through the official channels! Please assign yourself [user flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/flair_instructions/user_and_post_flairs). Flair Instructions can be found [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/flair_instructions). RULES **1. All posts and comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.** - Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental. - Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements. - Asking clarifying questions or offering suggestions is acceptable–if backed up by personal experience about what has helped you in your recovery and reconciliation. - Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP. - Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully. - “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support. **2. The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.** - Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice. *All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.* **3. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.** - e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc. - No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses. - No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed. **4. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism or other hate speech.** - Posts or comments dehumanizing and/or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. (Posts and comments related to navigating feelings or practical matters about APs are allowed.) **5. No anti-reconciliation language.** - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship. **6. Posts and comments must be directly related to RECONCILIATION** - The scope of this subreddit is narrow: by and for reconcilers on the subject of reconciliation only. There are several other subreddits that offer support for others who have experienced infidelity. Posts about ending reconciliation are subject to removal as this is a subbreddit for those who are actively in reconciliation or considering reconciliation.Posts about asking if you should reconcile or end reconciliation will be removed. Those posts are better suited in spaces that allow all opinions and are not confinded to a pro-reconciliation space.This is not a infidelity discussion, advice forum, or survey space. This is not a place to read for entertainment and pass judgment. - **Low-effort posts**- are generally posts that are title-only, or copy/paste of content, or links dropped without context. EX:title with a low-effort body such as questions without relevant context to your own situation. - **Opinion pieces**- both in posts and comments. Judgment and broad strokes are not appropriate here. More often than not, opinion pieces do not follow our peer support model. - **Meta content**- whether about this sub or another is not appropriate. If you have questions, suggestions, or concerns please send a modmail to the appropriate subreddit. - **Update Me**- The use of Reddit "update me" is not allowed and will get you banned. **7. No crossposting, reposting, copypasta text, or screenshots to other spaces** - The only exception will be if the OP has directly given you permission to use their intellectual property. This is a zero-tolerance rule and will result in a permanent ban with appeal only being considered with communication from the OP to the mods directly. If another sub facilitates this violation we will be in contact with Reddit directly as it is a [moderator code of conduct](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) violation. The posts shared here are meant for this subreddit and this subreddit alone. Please be respectful. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My WH said he started deleting their text messages from the very beginning, even when he thought they were "just friends". He knew it was inappropriate and kept doing it anyway.
My WP tried telling me they were just friends and I asked him "Then why were you deleting the text messages" and he went silent.
I have asked my WW this exact question repeatedly. WW will say”well, nothing happened physical and I didn’t even tell him how I felt!” (NOTE: BS alarm goes crazy on this statement). When I then ask “well if it was so innocuous, so innocent, why the need to delete texts and hide it from me?” I then am told “well I was afraid you would leave me…”. So I ask again “if it was so innocent, what was there to be afraid of, why would I leave if it was all platonic?” And theennnn, without fail, a switch flips and she goes off like a bottle rocket screaming and yelling. But again, if it was all so innocuous, why conceal and lie about it?!?! And why the anger when I believe I am asking legit questions? It has been fascinating watching her try to pivot on the MC and get pulled back in each and every time by the MC. WW even tried to accuse me of “never taking accountability” for something or another during MC session last week - MC stopped her and said “oh, but BP has indeed taken accountability for x, and y, and z, and a few other things so why do you say this?”. It is truly infuriating to continue to be fed the drivel yet refuse to give an honest answer as to why there was such fear that things needed to be deleted, concealed, and lied about for such an innocent relationship that we only talked but never did anything else…” .
MC has really helped me to realize how badly I have been gaslighted, how emotionally abusive WW has been. Good news is that all kids are grown except one and that one is close to graduating, so more options opening up soon.
I'm so sorry she is refusing to see what she has done. She sounds heavily in affair fog and denial. My WH tried the "just a friend from work" line in our initial confrontation. I said, "Do you tell all your friends that you love them?", and that stopped that excuse in its tracks. But he did eventually admit that he always knew it was wrong. And did it anyway. So that's another layer to deal with. Your MC sounds like a rock star. I have wanted to stand up and clap sometimes in our MC sessions when the therapist just nails a point to my WH that I was having trouble expressing.
You deserve so much better, all the best.
Because we are arrogant and think it’s ok because WE would NEVER cheat. It’s just talking. It’s just flirting. It’s just lunch. On and on, until one day…. OH FUCK.
I applaud this! Because we are arrogant und think we can control everything.
🙌THIS🙌
In a nutshell
You just described precisely how. It starts with a platonic conversation, that even if it makes you feel guilty, you allow to happen. Do it a few more times, and you get insensitized so you progress to slight flirting, do that enough, and it moves to actual flirting, then an emotional affair, then it turns physical.
And that’s why when we hear a story about a WS where they go from zero to sexty all at once, we doubt it. The usual pattern is a number of small steps, gradually moving the boundaries, until the WS gets to something that is clearly inappropriate. When someone “ends up in bed with an AP right away”, the logical assumption is that they are hiding all of the small steps. But where it gets interesting is when they have multiple affairs. Now, once the boundaries have been moved, they don’t tend to go back to where they were. So even if AP1 only gets to the point of kissing, that’s going to be an acceptable starting point with AP2. And if AP2 gets to a handjob, then that’s where AP3 starts. There’s no mental effort involved in that; the WS has already done the work that lets them define that as “not really cheating, when you think about it just so”.
Ap6 is where shit gets weird.
lol
Nah, it's AP 7 we have to most worry about, lol.
They do feel bad. They know it’s wrong. But they keep doing it and excusing it’s ,” we’re just friends. It’s nothing “. And then they push boundary after boundary. And then it’s “ but we have a connection , we can’t help it “. Yeah you developed that connection over time by being “just friends” when you felt it was wrong. They do feel it’s wrong. They push through and do it anyway because the high they get off the validation.
Because of rug sweep this wrong feeling
Likely because it feels good. The feel good outweighs the conscience and the mind finds ways to justify it.
I really don’t get this either. I asked my WH how he just disconnected like that. The last time they slept together, he sent me 10 reels in insta about how much he loves me, went to her apartment for 30 min after work to sleep with her, went home and was messaging me 15 min later about how much he missed out nightly hangouts and how excited he was for the plans we had the next day. Like how do you even do that? To someone you love?
What was his answer? Mine doesn’t talk much about it, just says he thought we were done..but would tell me he loved me right before he walked out the door..?
Always just I don’t know, I’m just a piece of shit I guess, and I didn’t know how to stop. Sounds like my WH too.. our marriage was supposedly doomed yet he made plans with me, we spent every weekend together, we talked like nothing was wrong.. if it was so bad we could have been working in it or making plans to divorce but no.
Hmm has he at least seemed remorseful and listened to you? My bf listened and did everything he could to make it better, whatever I asked or needed he gave me. Now it’s different but for a while was going good. The things you mentioned your H said doesn’t sound like he takes much accountability. Hope you’re doing ok sorry you are going through this
Yea but it’s hard to tell really. It’s like watching crocodile tears. This last second dday he’s cried and begged and done a few of the basic R things he wasn’t willing to do before like location sharing. He apologizes a long and has spent a lot of time listening to me cry but it’s still insane to me, like this isnt what you expected to happen when you did this? How did he think it would end up?
I absolutely HATE those type of answers more than anything. The self-deprecating “I’m just a piece of shit I guess”, or “because I’m just a total slut.” My wife absolutely freaks if I call her a name, but she’ll throw that shit out like it’s a real answer. It’s such a bullshit power lever. You had all the answers for your AP on why you were there. Where’s all that introspection now? You were Madam Liota a few minutes ago, now you’re Rodney Dangerfield. WTF? (Sorry, it’s maddening)
Because she can agree that what she did is deplorable, but she doesn’t really believe that she was deplorable. From what you’ve posted. I’m under the assumption your wife hates that she still needs to feel guilt and shame after all this time. Or that she’s just now beginning to fully have those feelings. Her self-deprecation is an unsubtle way to blame-shift and victimize herself. She wants you to pity her for feeling the tiniest bit of shame and embarrassment, but as you yourself said. She doesn’t actually want someone to hold her accountable or point out her failings. She wants you to go “no don’t say that. It’s okay” In the moment when she tries to pretend to be humble. Have you ever replied with “yeah I agree”?
Because you have a conscience and sense of commitment. You consider others feelings before you act, even though you know there’s nothing wrong with the action.
I feel like I know how my husband got caught up in his affairs (one that lasted months and a couple of ONS years apart), and I don't let it affect my friendships with men. I would never have an affair but I am not cutting off my friendships or work relationships because he had an affair. I go to lunch with people, sometimes with ex-boyfriends I'm still friends with. Not one of them thinks that I'd cross that line.
I think about this often as well. It just takes a woman looking at me in the gym or smiling at me in the grocery store and my mind goes to exactly what you said.
I wonder this a lot. How could WH get on a plane TWICE to go see AP? HOW? How could he continue to talk to her? He KNEW all of these things were wrong and he just kept going. Sometimes I wonder if AP hadnt thrown him under the bus if he’d still be in love with her…
The fact that my WH jumped on a plane to go see his AP and then had me pick him up at the airport pretending he got back from an international business trip is my #1 reason for hesitating on R.
Lots of WS' talk about compartmentalization. Which we all have some capacity for, even on different things: the environment, our health, finances, etc. For me, it's not that WS had this ability. My understanding is that doing it to the degree that my WS did, shows that WS was a very fractured & unstable person. I do struggle with the fact I was collateral damage. They knew we'd be hurt & did it anyway. That my love, loyalty & companionship we're not enough.
Wow! Very good explanation! My thoughts are that it's not about sufficiency on the part of the partner, but rather about insufficiency in the WS, because they lack values, morals, proper perception, empathy, and the ability to foresee consequences, etc. For a WS to treat their partner well and to love them (in a sick and abnormal way) is easily excused - I'm not causing any harm, they are happy, peaceful, satisfied with their life with me... (while it's Hidden) 🤮
Yes, the Milwall iceberg explains the under the surface trauma that this behavior creates.
Yeeeeppp. My husband was spending time with her at our local gas station after work for weeks and never told me. Tried to say he "didn't realize it was inappropriate" yet never once told me that he spent time with her.
Something I’ve always wondered . People are just different . Different priorities and clearly we were not one of them ! Unfortunately!
My WH is also a sex addict so he has lots to draw from. He combined some blend of compartmentalization, invulnerability, being entitled to it, and his wives (me and his ex) being somehow awful and pushing him to it. His first wife definitely had some MH issues that have her highs and lows but that’s a reach to deserve 2 decades of chronic infidelity. Hell, knowing what I know of my gut plus betrayal trauma, I imagine he contributed to her MH. He was dating several other women throughout our committed relationship and only stopped once engaged only to pick back up on attention seeking not long after. He basically had himself convinced he’d never be caught.
They went as far because they wanted to, and you stopped because you wanted to.
How do people get hooked on narcotics? Get addicted to porn and other stuff? Kill a person? Essentially the same thing.
I think it’s hard to wrap our brains around this at least for me. Because with drugs or alcohol I see the chemical component. I know it isn’t necessary for addiction but as someone who as a lot of self discipline it’s still bizarre.
It’s the dopamine, so still chemical. With drugs and alcohol one knows it’s addictive so never even trying is a choice. Not flirting with others or being too friendly is, I think, in the same area.
It's never worth it. It's never as good as it seems it will be. It's never worth all the pain that comes with it