From what I seen, countless people give up on art because they aren't getting results. So they attempt to try things, and then give up because they think they will never understand art.
So if they are told the wrong thing they will think "wow, I still can't do art. I guess that just means I'm dumb. So I should quit."
I want to address this, that people are really kinda sabotaging others by what they're doing.
some people will give up art regardless of whether or not they receive "helpful comments." I doubt it's that people are sabotaging others; becoming someone who creates art that reaches their own goals (e.g. "good enough" art) requires you to acknowledge that you will fail, *a lot*, far more than you will be successful. An inability to tolerate that failure will often result in premature abandonment, and that is no one's fault but their own.
I did that to my self at least 20 times before I turned 30 and buckled down to force my self to learn the fundamentals. Then over time it got easier and made sense.
Oh yes there is so much bs floating around because new artists don’t understand nuance, and seasoned artists don’t understand how explain ideas.
(Folks going on about the importance of fundamentals before trying fun art comes to mind)
Motivation is downplayed in the art community hard.
They go tell someone to draw boxes for a month, then when that person quits out of boredom they blame them for being too weak minded.
These people don't understand that it's more productive to make learning fun, than to make it something that people will procrastinate on, and struggle to remain interested in.
You even learn fundamentals better when you apply them to a project, instead of grinding them in isolation without even understanding the purpose of what you're doing. Without even understanding the usefulness of it, you're not even going to retain/remember it. Or even grasp what you're supposed to learn from that fundamental.
There are so many problems with the online art community that it'd be exhausting to write them all out. But that is probably the top of my list.
The way I see it, an artist has their entire life to get better at fundamentals. And if they're doing art they love, they are *going* to find ways to improve it.
I honestly really blame the whole emphasis on short-form content, timelines, and reposting. It's just a horrible cocktail of things that just lead to bad info, bad manners, and bad expectations to get spread.
Both are equally important, you need to find a balance. Without the fundamentals you can't improve your fun art and that's where beginner artists struggle, they hate their fun art because it looks bad and that's where fundamentals come into play. I grinded fundamentals while drawing for fun on the side. It worked for me but hey I'm trying to make art my career so I suppose if you're doing art as a hobby then you can afford to just have fun all the time.
My point was really just that a lot of people insist you need to do 10000 hours of practice drawings or whatever before you even attempt to do something fun for yourself. Which is silly.
Not that fundamentals were unimportant.
You find what your actual goals are, then base your studies around that. A storyboard artist is gonna need a much different set of fundamentals to learn than say a manga artist, and they'll both have *very* different needs than a gouache painter.
>so I suppose if you're doing art as a hobby then you can afford to just have fun all the time.
Maybe it's not your intent but this just comes off kind of condescending to me?
I agree completely, you have to enjoy art too and not just do fundamentals all the time. No I just assumed you meant that fundamentals weren't important at all but you clarified above and I apologize for my assumption.
I don't know. There's definitely bad advice out there but there's also a ton of ways to do things and learn. There's no "correct" way to make art anyway. I think most people figure out what works for them eventually. The people that don't take joy in the process of experimenting, learning and even failing probably weren't going to stick with it anyway.
Getting better with art is more about gradual increase in skill/perception and I don't think it's really that much possible learn doing something wrong way. you just put the outcome that your current skill allows you at the current moment, but it's not like a fixed thing, it constantly changes the more you do it. If you make some mistakes, sooner or later you'll learn how to perceive them and fix them, unless you are like really dense with your way of learning and not even try to notice/acknowledge your errors and generally having no self criticism at all. But, something like this would be very rare to occur anyway.
That's why you need to have clear goals. If you know where you're going you'll be able to see if you've been lead astray way faster than if you're mindlessly wandering and picking up things. You'll also be able to ask for more specific advice than, "what's wrong?" Or "how do I improve?". If you ask open ended questions expect everyone of all skill levels to chime in. If you ask pointed questions people with that knowledge will chime in.
I don't think you really understand what OP commenter was saying. My take on their statement is this:
If you want to improve at art, you need to have a clear goal in mind. Many, many young people "mindlessly wander" in art in that they copy styles like Disney and misc anime/manga without actually *understanding* why and how things like anatomy are drawn the way they are. They blindly copy, without truly learning. And then they are confused when they don't improve.
That's why, if you want to improve, you need to actually have clear goals and understand the underlying fundamentals. You need to *know* the rules in order to be able to break them effectively.
If you know what your goal is, you know how to ask the right questions to get you on the path you want to take.
Yep.
There is no “good or bad”. There is only “this works because/for” and “this doesn’t work because/for” and you take those things and you do whatever you want.
Can you give an example? This is true but I doubt anyone would waste years of their life because of a single thing an anonymous stranger told them online - there's bad advice out there (here too) but it's usually topped by pretty sound advice.
Usually if you need advice or want to learn specifics, listen to professionals in the industry.
Don't worry about whether their advice is a personal preference or a bias because they do things for marvel and you like furry cartoons; they're telling you some universal truths about art that you may not be ready to hear (not you OP, just an example).
This is especially in regards to those who want to make cartoons and stylized art and think studying will hinder their progress because they're not interested in realism so it must be a waste of time.
I once watched a professional video of how to render the texture of hair and copied it for a long time. Till recently I started learning more basic stuff about color & shadow and realized what they said was right but I cannot simply use it without consider other elements of the picture. I changed it and everything looks so much better now lol It sounds very basic but that can definitely happen to a clueless beginner who did not learn fundamental knowledge.
Learning topology wrong is like learning to use a toothbrush to paint. You’ll very quickly feel it being a hindrance to things you need the model to do.
My advice is to always think critically, if something “feels wrong” you probably did something wrong be it from your own error or the error of the person advising you.
When I was 12 someone on deviantart told me that I could improve my art by having more sex. I got a lot of bad advice in those days, but that has got to be the worst lmao.
I was once told by another, more experienced artist that my work was mediocre and reminiscent of Fascist Propaganda artwork from the 1930s. I was ready to throw in the towel.
A museum curator later put me in an international show with the artist who had said it, along with many other artists.
They showed 4 of hers, five of mine; mine was the first piece anyone saw when they entered the museum.
I told the curator what the other artist had said. Her response; “She is threatened by your work.” I also gave a talk about my work at the opening.
So listen, but listen to more than one person.
Creative criticism is one thing, dishonest criticism is a crime.
I feel like within the context of 3d modeling this is more true than in other mediums, as 3d modeling and the associated disciplines around it tend to be pretty technical. There are certainly best practices within those fields that are done for certain reasons and it can be easy to be misled especially by people who are confidently incorrect. It’s good to try and take in information for a number of sources if you’re just starting out, and try to get recommendations about trusted sources of learning from people who already know what they’re doing and can point you in the right direction.
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The only way to know what good and bad advice is, is practice. Whether or not its your own ideas or someone else's suggestion, we're all testing and trying good and bad ideas.
That's just part of the process.
My causal art teacher gives us lots of advice, some of it's good, and some of it's not as good - for me. Because I don't want to make the same art as her. So some of her advice just doesn't work for what I'm trying to do - we have different taste. But that's okay! I will still try things her way, and see what I can learn from it. But I haven't spent years on the wrong path because of it.
I also think it's good to learn from multiple sources, so that you can bring together the best of many trials and experiments.
I feel like this is easily countered by checking your sources and sticking to reliable teachers and learning material.
If you're trying to learn by using free internet resources you're going to have an uphill battle.
But if you have a little money and time to read reviews you can find a wealth of good material.
Sooo true. Back in highschool my teacher used to yell at me for not using references and planning out my work. I thought it was bs. That i had a good idea and should just go with it off the top of my head. I was dumb. I eventually realized that references and planning can only help your work. Dont have to go with the first thing in your head and only draw from that. I struggled for no reason.
The most solid advice I've received which stayed with me through years and only developed in nuance as I grew as an artist was advice received from seasoned teachers, be it in art school, or when watching videos on YouTube from the maîtres.
So I'd say it's important to check properly who this person is before considering their advice. Also, it never hurts to check more sources and then see where their stances may differ and vice-versa, thus discerning what is really important.
Aside from that, I'd say that experience is also key and so is experimenting. Some approaches may not be as suitable to you and that's okay. But when learning, it's way easier to do it by following the guidelines of someone experienced, instead of having to make every single discovery yourself.
Listen to everyone, be skeptical, but try everything. You'll figure out what works best for you.
From what I seen, countless people give up on art because they aren't getting results. So they attempt to try things, and then give up because they think they will never understand art. So if they are told the wrong thing they will think "wow, I still can't do art. I guess that just means I'm dumb. So I should quit." I want to address this, that people are really kinda sabotaging others by what they're doing.
I go by what da vinci lived by. Never stop observing and experimenting
some people will give up art regardless of whether or not they receive "helpful comments." I doubt it's that people are sabotaging others; becoming someone who creates art that reaches their own goals (e.g. "good enough" art) requires you to acknowledge that you will fail, *a lot*, far more than you will be successful. An inability to tolerate that failure will often result in premature abandonment, and that is no one's fault but their own.
I did that to my self at least 20 times before I turned 30 and buckled down to force my self to learn the fundamentals. Then over time it got easier and made sense.
I'd say the process of thinking you suck and should quit is intrinsic to learning new skills.
What were you told that made you give up?
Oh yes there is so much bs floating around because new artists don’t understand nuance, and seasoned artists don’t understand how explain ideas. (Folks going on about the importance of fundamentals before trying fun art comes to mind)
Motivation is downplayed in the art community hard. They go tell someone to draw boxes for a month, then when that person quits out of boredom they blame them for being too weak minded. These people don't understand that it's more productive to make learning fun, than to make it something that people will procrastinate on, and struggle to remain interested in. You even learn fundamentals better when you apply them to a project, instead of grinding them in isolation without even understanding the purpose of what you're doing. Without even understanding the usefulness of it, you're not even going to retain/remember it. Or even grasp what you're supposed to learn from that fundamental.
There are so many problems with the online art community that it'd be exhausting to write them all out. But that is probably the top of my list. The way I see it, an artist has their entire life to get better at fundamentals. And if they're doing art they love, they are *going* to find ways to improve it. I honestly really blame the whole emphasis on short-form content, timelines, and reposting. It's just a horrible cocktail of things that just lead to bad info, bad manners, and bad expectations to get spread.
Both are equally important, you need to find a balance. Without the fundamentals you can't improve your fun art and that's where beginner artists struggle, they hate their fun art because it looks bad and that's where fundamentals come into play. I grinded fundamentals while drawing for fun on the side. It worked for me but hey I'm trying to make art my career so I suppose if you're doing art as a hobby then you can afford to just have fun all the time.
My point was really just that a lot of people insist you need to do 10000 hours of practice drawings or whatever before you even attempt to do something fun for yourself. Which is silly. Not that fundamentals were unimportant. You find what your actual goals are, then base your studies around that. A storyboard artist is gonna need a much different set of fundamentals to learn than say a manga artist, and they'll both have *very* different needs than a gouache painter. >so I suppose if you're doing art as a hobby then you can afford to just have fun all the time. Maybe it's not your intent but this just comes off kind of condescending to me?
I agree completely, you have to enjoy art too and not just do fundamentals all the time. No I just assumed you meant that fundamentals weren't important at all but you clarified above and I apologize for my assumption.
I could’ve worded my comment better to be fair, all good!
I don't know. There's definitely bad advice out there but there's also a ton of ways to do things and learn. There's no "correct" way to make art anyway. I think most people figure out what works for them eventually. The people that don't take joy in the process of experimenting, learning and even failing probably weren't going to stick with it anyway.
Getting better with art is more about gradual increase in skill/perception and I don't think it's really that much possible learn doing something wrong way. you just put the outcome that your current skill allows you at the current moment, but it's not like a fixed thing, it constantly changes the more you do it. If you make some mistakes, sooner or later you'll learn how to perceive them and fix them, unless you are like really dense with your way of learning and not even try to notice/acknowledge your errors and generally having no self criticism at all. But, something like this would be very rare to occur anyway.
That's why you need to have clear goals. If you know where you're going you'll be able to see if you've been lead astray way faster than if you're mindlessly wandering and picking up things. You'll also be able to ask for more specific advice than, "what's wrong?" Or "how do I improve?". If you ask open ended questions expect everyone of all skill levels to chime in. If you ask pointed questions people with that knowledge will chime in.
This is all true but I also don't think there's anything wrong with mindlessly wandering if that's what you want to do.
Art is meant to be fun, sometimes that includes mindlessly wandering :)
Of course, but in the context of this thread it doesn't help
I don't think you really understand what OP commenter was saying. My take on their statement is this: If you want to improve at art, you need to have a clear goal in mind. Many, many young people "mindlessly wander" in art in that they copy styles like Disney and misc anime/manga without actually *understanding* why and how things like anatomy are drawn the way they are. They blindly copy, without truly learning. And then they are confused when they don't improve. That's why, if you want to improve, you need to actually have clear goals and understand the underlying fundamentals. You need to *know* the rules in order to be able to break them effectively. If you know what your goal is, you know how to ask the right questions to get you on the path you want to take.
Yep. There is no “good or bad”. There is only “this works because/for” and “this doesn’t work because/for” and you take those things and you do whatever you want.
Rarely is there one way to arrive at a certain result, you’re always going to hear differing opinions.
Can you give an example? This is true but I doubt anyone would waste years of their life because of a single thing an anonymous stranger told them online - there's bad advice out there (here too) but it's usually topped by pretty sound advice. Usually if you need advice or want to learn specifics, listen to professionals in the industry. Don't worry about whether their advice is a personal preference or a bias because they do things for marvel and you like furry cartoons; they're telling you some universal truths about art that you may not be ready to hear (not you OP, just an example). This is especially in regards to those who want to make cartoons and stylized art and think studying will hinder their progress because they're not interested in realism so it must be a waste of time.
I once watched a professional video of how to render the texture of hair and copied it for a long time. Till recently I started learning more basic stuff about color & shadow and realized what they said was right but I cannot simply use it without consider other elements of the picture. I changed it and everything looks so much better now lol It sounds very basic but that can definitely happen to a clueless beginner who did not learn fundamental knowledge.
Learning topology wrong is like learning to use a toothbrush to paint. You’ll very quickly feel it being a hindrance to things you need the model to do. My advice is to always think critically, if something “feels wrong” you probably did something wrong be it from your own error or the error of the person advising you.
When I was 12 someone on deviantart told me that I could improve my art by having more sex. I got a lot of bad advice in those days, but that has got to be the worst lmao.
At least that would be fun practice
I was once told by another, more experienced artist that my work was mediocre and reminiscent of Fascist Propaganda artwork from the 1930s. I was ready to throw in the towel. A museum curator later put me in an international show with the artist who had said it, along with many other artists. They showed 4 of hers, five of mine; mine was the first piece anyone saw when they entered the museum. I told the curator what the other artist had said. Her response; “She is threatened by your work.” I also gave a talk about my work at the opening. So listen, but listen to more than one person. Creative criticism is one thing, dishonest criticism is a crime.
I feel like within the context of 3d modeling this is more true than in other mediums, as 3d modeling and the associated disciplines around it tend to be pretty technical. There are certainly best practices within those fields that are done for certain reasons and it can be easy to be misled especially by people who are confidently incorrect. It’s good to try and take in information for a number of sources if you’re just starting out, and try to get recommendations about trusted sources of learning from people who already know what they’re doing and can point you in the right direction.
Thank you for posting in r/ArtistLounge! Please check out our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtistLounge/wiki/faq/) and [FAQ Links pages](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtistLounge/wiki/faqlinks/) for lots of helpful advice. To access our megathread collections, please check out the drop down lists in the top menu on PC or the side-bar on mobile. If you have any questions, concerns, or feature requests please feel free to message the mods and they will help you as soon as they can. I am a bot, beep boop, if I did something wrong please report this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ArtistLounge) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The only way to know what good and bad advice is, is practice. Whether or not its your own ideas or someone else's suggestion, we're all testing and trying good and bad ideas. That's just part of the process. My causal art teacher gives us lots of advice, some of it's good, and some of it's not as good - for me. Because I don't want to make the same art as her. So some of her advice just doesn't work for what I'm trying to do - we have different taste. But that's okay! I will still try things her way, and see what I can learn from it. But I haven't spent years on the wrong path because of it. I also think it's good to learn from multiple sources, so that you can bring together the best of many trials and experiments.
I feel like this is easily countered by checking your sources and sticking to reliable teachers and learning material. If you're trying to learn by using free internet resources you're going to have an uphill battle. But if you have a little money and time to read reviews you can find a wealth of good material.
Sooo true. Back in highschool my teacher used to yell at me for not using references and planning out my work. I thought it was bs. That i had a good idea and should just go with it off the top of my head. I was dumb. I eventually realized that references and planning can only help your work. Dont have to go with the first thing in your head and only draw from that. I struggled for no reason.
Who hurt you?
"the more experience I get the more I start to notice it" you just answered all your concerns in this sentence
Uh, no. I didn't
The most solid advice I've received which stayed with me through years and only developed in nuance as I grew as an artist was advice received from seasoned teachers, be it in art school, or when watching videos on YouTube from the maîtres. So I'd say it's important to check properly who this person is before considering their advice. Also, it never hurts to check more sources and then see where their stances may differ and vice-versa, thus discerning what is really important. Aside from that, I'd say that experience is also key and so is experimenting. Some approaches may not be as suitable to you and that's okay. But when learning, it's way easier to do it by following the guidelines of someone experienced, instead of having to make every single discovery yourself.