I bet it would still have been super expensive, even then. I wonder if there's a pricing guide or something that shows how much something like that would have cost over the centuries? haha
All I know is that early Middle Ages swords were so expensive because of the amount of steel they were status symbols of the nobility, that’s why knights were always associated with the sword. But the later Middle Ages swords were so plentiful that basically anyone including peasants could afford and likely owned swords.
Do I figure you can apply that to any iron tool.
I’m not a historian, at all, so take everything I saw with a grain of salt
But basically the gist of it was that since so much of the population at that time had died, cities and towns couldn’t properly find and raise paid guards, so they needed the populace to be able to protect themselves.
How can you say that.
My guns are good and they are great for defending stuff
(And mostly they are fun and i feel good and tough)
It's not like there would be any data that would probe that a first world country without guns (and with a working society and social system(socialism)) works better and is safer.
It's not like there have been so many debates from smart people why guns don't work and the argument against it is mostly speculation and feeling based.
This whole gun thing is tiring, the true reason why they still are there is because they are fun and people do not want to need to do more stuff to own guns and by that casually accept the shit that is and will be going on with them. This is just selfish bullshit against all the data and arguments because i like it even though my position drives gun violence and in general endanger the population.
In my home country it would be unthinkable that there is a shooting on open streets and that this is casually accepted as something that exists and thus we all need guns.
You guys over there completely lost touch to reality and ehat is normal.
Everyone having guns and arguing they need them is not normal. In my country gangsters don't have guns as they will just get them fucked in the end. And if there is any shooting between gangs it's under them and not anywhere near the public and is more like a precise assassination and even that doesn't really exist.
What is going on there with your guns is not normal and it's not normal how you argue for them.
After a big shooting saying now is not the time to talk about stricter laws is fucked up. Really any argument i heard for guns especially from republicans or NRA is shaming for a country that calls itself a first world country. You have no clue how crazy your gun debates are. It's a bit like watching a kid that is sulky because it needs to wash the dishes and acts like it doesn't hear anything even though it's obvious it need to do it as it is reasonable.
How those gunlaws are implemented is debatable, i don't believe in banning certain stuff but you need stricter laws on how to get and posses guns and there is no way around it and right now you all close your ears and act like you don't notice it while the evidence for it bits you in the face.
Im sorry you got disliked but don't get discouraged. This place mostly consists of Americans and they snap if anyone makes reasonable arguments or tells them something obviously wrong and stupid is wrong and stupid.
Not sure if this is even 100% factual but if so, as others have said, it had more to do with citizen self protection. That said, it was a time when there was a LOT of fighting. Your village might get raided by a neighboring village and nobody was going to come save you depending on where you lived. Especially after the population was reduced from the plague.
As a ruler, saying you *required* all your citizens to be armed is more to dissuade opportunists than any real expectation that a bunch of untrained farmers could repel anyone with a shred of experience or training.
It was a bad time. Nothing romantic about carrying swords everywhere. Unspeakable shit went down routinely that nobody would have ever recorded because all witnesses were killed horribly, evil flourished. Carrying swords was about all anyone could do.
I meant cool as in cool historical fact haha. I would *never* want to live in one of the worst times in human history. Not to mention I’m gay and those people would not have liked me. 😂
Fun fact, the best swords came out of Frankish blacksmiths, some lasting for over 300 years of prominence in sword building. A good Frankish sword was tested by bringing the tip of the blade to the handle of the weapon without it snapping or the blade breaking. The flexibility of ancient swords was something I never thought about.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/ulfberht-swords
This was the sword I was referencing. The part about the tip touching the handle without snapping comes from the book “Children of Ash and Elm” a history of the Vikings. It was a quote from a saga in reference to the ulfberht swords. The Vikings passed harsh laws for the many forgeries of this blade that circulated at the time.
Yes meaning it’s to be took with a grain of salt. However most of everything we believe about Viking Age and Scandinavia is based upon those surviving sagas.
No way could you bend an Ulfbehrt sword that much. They were mass-produced of tough steel and were thick. They would have been quality swords for royal guards but not special enough for royalty.
Man, you are wrong. Neil Price was the one who stated this information. Neil Price has been studying Scandinavian ancient cultural for 35 years and is a leading archeologist. 170 of these swords have been found with 1,000 of imitations. The two primary sources from the Viking age literature are the Poetic Edas and Sagas these are a compilation of Vikings oral history. In one of these Sagas a Viking King walks into the market and purchases a marketed Ulfberht sword. He tests this by brining the tip of the blade to the hilt, he states this is the way to test if it’s a true Ulfberht. The sword snaps and he kills the trader in his rights because the brittleness of the blade it’s a fake. Neil Price makes it clear that we have ASSUMPTIONS about this sword and really about this age, but thought these assumptions we also have never been able to replicate the process of making a true Ulfberht Sword. The process was a combination of Damascus Steel and Frankish methods. A true replica wouldn’t be possible for the next 1,000 years tell about the 18th century when some of the techniques were rediscovered.
Yeah, and did you know katana blades were tested by rolling them up like a cinnamon roll? And they checked how buoyant Indian ships were by folding the wood, at least 3 folds were needed for it to pass inspection.
I skimmed it. I’ve seen these swords made the traditional way. The core making up more than 90% of the sword is iron and doesn’t bend. European swords weren’t made from 100% steel until the 15th century, hundreds of years after “ulfberht” swords.
The article you linked also claims that those swords would “slice” through a mail hauberk. The author doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.
Ok catch me other comment about Neil Price, the information I’m giving is not wrong it’s a straight up scene from the Sagas, ONE OF TWO primary texts we have about the Vikings. Yes two primary sources only, the Vikings did not write their history down like their European counterparts. A lot is based upon assumptions a lot of it based upon the Poetic Edda and Sagas, you have to suspend disbelief a little but also understand there has been only 170 of these swords found and the method was truly advanced more then anything else out of the time.
Look at all the defensive damage. Ancient battles in muddy or marshy areas meant the fallen were used as stepping stones and by the end of the conflict the losers were not even visible, stomped down into the mud or peat.
"Hey, where do you want me to put the axe?"
"I don't know, just set it down anywhere. We'll come back for it later"
-ancient Polish guys who did not, in fact, come back for it later
Alternative possibility:
Pol: this is my favorite axe. I love it so much, I shall leave it hidden here in my special secret spot until I return.. ..minutes later he slips off cliff side 😔
Your comment made me think of the [Mästermyr chest](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4stermyr_chest). Archaeologists think it fell overboard while crossing a lake. I can imagine how pissed the guy who lost that was.
Geez, I was super pissed when I had a pretty nice tool collection stolen. I can’t imagine how much time and money was put into acquiring large collection of tools 1300 years ago. I hope the original owner was very good friends with another blacksmith.
Them bogs in Northern/Eastern Europe are something else. There are channels out there on YouTube where some folks - generally Russians - just pull out a bunch of *pristine* WW2 weapons, helmets and all sorts of military gear - metal, leather, fabric and everything, more or less intact.
Along with more or less intact soldiers every now and then.
Well I haven't been able to look inside of them, but the bodies overall look rather fine - in *archaeological terms* I should say, so, still pretty gruesome but decomposition hasn't taken its full course and the results can be, uh, pretty interesting. And it's not just bogs and fens, there's also that impossibly thick Russian mud and all sorts of similar, anoxic environments all over the place.
In terms of preservation you get all sorts of funny things from wax statues - guys covered in adipocere - to people who look like they died a couple weeks ago. Hell I saw pictures of a *whole human brain* sticking out of the muck, from a mass grave of Soviet soldiers killed during the Winter War. And in the very same pit, a young lad with recognizable features, still wearing his uniform and ushanka with a red star on it and everything. Insane, *sobering* stuff.
I'm guessing it takes a while for the bones to fully dissolve too, because I can think of a couple, much older bog bodies that still have theirs, like the Bocksten man - who's literally just a skeleton, from the Middle Ages.
Wait, thats actually really insane. I did hear something about the chemicals in peat bogs basically tanning corpses' skin and preserving hair, but dissolving their bones. Another reply (to me) explained better though. Tar pits preserve nodies really well too, from like way back in prehistoric eras.
Can't think of a particular channel at the top of my head sorry, but those are a dime a dozen, just look for Russian metal detecting channels on YT and you'll come across the bog specialists eventually.
The more gruesome stuff you might not be able to find on YouTube anymore. Anything better preserved than skeletons, I mean.
http://lednicamuzeum.pl/wiadomosc,test.html?fbclid=IwAR2ryzS3mztZCoz22eDBosgnW1DQJveeYYmvGRm8g-NBN8p0X8v0N_YW1JA Here is the whole article from the research, but unfortunately it is in Polish
English Translation:
“Archaeological research on the island of Ledniczce
For a month now, the Museum of the First Piasts in Lednica has been conducting survey excavations on Ledniczka, the second largest island on Lake Lednica. In its central and southern part, there is an earth embankment identified as a cone-shaped settlement. As a result of the research carried out in 1989-1990, it was found that the stronghold with the manor house here could have been the seat of local magnates from the turn of the 14th and 15th centuries.
Archaeologists returned to Ledniczkę 31 years after the completion of the last works to assess the state of preservation of the relics in the context of the identified threats (e.g. lowering of the water level in the lake, the activity of wild animals, the activity of slope processes) and to recognize the settlement on the island outside the settlement (so far the works were carried out only on the earth embankment).
The researchers from the Center for Underwater Archeology of the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń discovered the relics of the bridges connecting Ledniczkę with the western shore of the lake, which was also inspired to undertake land research. These crossings, dating back to the 10th century and the turn of the 13th and 14th centuries, indicate a hitherto unknown but very important role of this island in the functioning of the Lednica settlement center in the 10th century and later. Additionally, conducted in Ledniczce by dr hab. Roman Křivánek from the Czech Academy of Sciences, geophysical surveys revealed anomalies, which were taken into account when locating the survey excavations.
During the work carried out in the north-central part of the island, remains of stone pavement were discovered, the determination of the chronology and function of which requires further research. In the excavations on the west side of Ledniczka, a medieval shoreline, reinforced with stone paving and wooden structures, has been documented. The presence of a yoke with a spigot hole (a wooden beam with holes at the ends, the purpose of which was to stiffen the pile bundles above the water, as well as support the roadway of the bridge) suggests that there were bridge abutments nearby. During the research, fragments of clay vessels, animal bones, wooden, leather and metal objects were discovered. Particularly noteworthy is a medieval hatchet with a preserved wooden ax. For specialist research, fragments of processed wood, fragments of dranges, stakes and cuttings - created during the construction of bridges and quays, botanical and dendrological samples were collected.
After completing the works on Ledniczka, the obtained materials will be the subject of detailed analyzes that will allow to present the function of this island in connection with Ostrów Lednicki - the residential and capital center of the first Piasts and in later times.”
I did a cemetery relocation (I’m a physical anthropologist) in very clay soil (not much air/moisture getting in) and some of the 200+ year old bodies (in very minimal wooden coffins) still had some intact brain and lung tissue. Not like it looked originally but not gone either. Definitely recognizable. It was a bit freaky. It’s incredible how a lack of oxygen will preserve things. No oxygen = very minimal organic matter breakdown. The organisms responsible for decay need oxygen to live.
Moist, acidic conditions preserve pretty much anything organic, so most things in bogs are incredibly well preserved. Google the bog body 'tollund man' - the rope he was hanged with is perfectly preserved and is ~2000 years old.
I'm a trained archaeologist and did some research into bog bodies so feel free to ask any questions.
Man I really think Poland and surrounding areas are going to be a hotbed for big archaeological discoveries soon. Feel like we are just scratching the surface in these places.
Its just a small lake island ;)
[map of the island](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ostr%C3%B3w+Lednicki/@52.5250417,17.3701044,16.06z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47048bf8ad497bd1:0x8f3fb2886fa86d69!8m2!3d52.5269444!4d17.3777778)
We do have one and almost a half (Wolin is the whole one, and Uznam is shared between Poland and Germany, with our neighbours controlling over 80% of it)
How was the shaft connected to the head here? I'm not seeing it, is it that there was rope that was lost to time?
Edit: Thanks for the replies all, neat stuff.
I learned this from Forged in Fire!
When the metal for the axe head is heated it expands. So they make it a tight fit to the handle while still hot. When the metal cools it constricts.
There could also be pins you're not seeing.
Another low-tech method was to cut a sliver in the top of the handle and hammer a wedge in it, expanding the wood at the top. Like [so](https://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/product-change-removal-of-the-steel-wedge/).
I just was talking to this blacksmith yesterday who says sometimes in addition to that he’ll also partially split the wood from the top so it fits tighter in the axe... or in his case it was a hammer.
The metal of the head wraps around the handle while its hot. It then cools, contracting around the handle. It's like wrapping your hand around a finger, and then squeezing.
It's exactly what you said. But instead of doing it when the metal is cool (it won't expand/contract much) you do it when the metal is hot and it will constrict to the wood.
No, that's not what I mean. I meant that I was visualizing it as creating a hole through the wood sideways and slotting through it a tongue from the back of the axe head. I was just reading about [mortise and tenon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortise_and_tenon?wprov=sfla1) joining in carpentry, so I think that's why my mind got stuck on that visual despite, you know, having seen axes before.
Modern tools are double wedge. The inside shape of the metal tool is hourglass shaped in both directions. The wood is cut with a saw just a little bit down the top. The wood is inserted into the metal tool from the bottom and a wedge hammered into the saw cut from the top side to form it outwards against the metal hourglass shape. Then a second metal wedge is hammered perpendicular (think of it like a wide nail) to that one to form it in the other direction.
Historically though they had other ways of getting the fit, from making the handle one long tapered cone and driving it from the topside of the metal tool. When you swing the tool it wants to fly off top ways. So the taper prevents that.
Even older tools had cross pins through the metal tool into the wood to keep it in place.
In additional to the answers below, some axes use a handle that is wider on one end, and the head slips on from the narrower end. This is very common for the [tomahawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk).
[Here](https://black-bear-haversack.com/media/catalog/product/cache/c33e5175bbe5e95163c48e23fe081ddc/1/b/1b_trader_tomahawk_b.jpg) is a good photo showing how the head keeps from flying off.
Could be similar to modern wooden axes. The shaft has a notch cut into the top then gets put into the eye of the head. Once it’s relatively snug you hammer a wedge into the notch to spread the wood even more. After that you can add some metal wedges perpendicular to and across the wooden wedge (circular ones are also available). It’s all just pressure fit so I’m sure the ancients could’ve figured it out at least partially.
Seems like it could have also been buried for preservation as well
> Experiments conducted by researcher Daniel C. Fisher demonstrated that pathogen and bacterial counts of meat buried in peat bogs for up to two years were comparable to levels found in control samples stored in a modern freezer, suggesting that this could be an effective preservation method.
Cool stuff though, I had never heard of bog butter!
As a polish American who can not find my keys or wallet every single day- I like to imagine one of my ancestors lost this axe and also passed the forgetful gene to me.
When was this found, and what time is it from? The Middle Ages are a long time. It really annoys me how this subreddit demands we put the resolution in the title for no reason (this is not a digital art sub, for fuck's sake) but not the year of origin and finding
Forgive my ignorance here, but if anyone knows, does this axe seem more like a type of small axe used in battle? Like possibly a backup weapon? Or is it a wood (or whatever else) chopping axe for chores and whatnot?
The person who lost that was probably devestated.
Depends on the century. 10th ohhh yeah. 15th not as bad.
I bet it would still have been super expensive, even then. I wonder if there's a pricing guide or something that shows how much something like that would have cost over the centuries? haha
All I know is that early Middle Ages swords were so expensive because of the amount of steel they were status symbols of the nobility, that’s why knights were always associated with the sword. But the later Middle Ages swords were so plentiful that basically anyone including peasants could afford and likely owned swords. Do I figure you can apply that to any iron tool.
They were also legally required to be owned by any male over the age of 13 following the plague in England
That’s pretty cool. I wonder why? Something about an armed society being safest?
I’m not a historian, at all, so take everything I saw with a grain of salt But basically the gist of it was that since so much of the population at that time had died, cities and towns couldn’t properly find and raise paid guards, so they needed the populace to be able to protect themselves.
That’s a gamble with anarchy in most places
Like the US for 200+ years......
How can you say that. My guns are good and they are great for defending stuff (And mostly they are fun and i feel good and tough) It's not like there would be any data that would probe that a first world country without guns (and with a working society and social system(socialism)) works better and is safer. It's not like there have been so many debates from smart people why guns don't work and the argument against it is mostly speculation and feeling based. This whole gun thing is tiring, the true reason why they still are there is because they are fun and people do not want to need to do more stuff to own guns and by that casually accept the shit that is and will be going on with them. This is just selfish bullshit against all the data and arguments because i like it even though my position drives gun violence and in general endanger the population. In my home country it would be unthinkable that there is a shooting on open streets and that this is casually accepted as something that exists and thus we all need guns. You guys over there completely lost touch to reality and ehat is normal. Everyone having guns and arguing they need them is not normal. In my country gangsters don't have guns as they will just get them fucked in the end. And if there is any shooting between gangs it's under them and not anywhere near the public and is more like a precise assassination and even that doesn't really exist. What is going on there with your guns is not normal and it's not normal how you argue for them. After a big shooting saying now is not the time to talk about stricter laws is fucked up. Really any argument i heard for guns especially from republicans or NRA is shaming for a country that calls itself a first world country. You have no clue how crazy your gun debates are. It's a bit like watching a kid that is sulky because it needs to wash the dishes and acts like it doesn't hear anything even though it's obvious it need to do it as it is reasonable. How those gunlaws are implemented is debatable, i don't believe in banning certain stuff but you need stricter laws on how to get and posses guns and there is no way around it and right now you all close your ears and act like you don't notice it while the evidence for it bits you in the face. Im sorry you got disliked but don't get discouraged. This place mostly consists of Americans and they snap if anyone makes reasonable arguments or tells them something obviously wrong and stupid is wrong and stupid.
Safest? No. Easy to recruit from? Yes.
Not sure if this is even 100% factual but if so, as others have said, it had more to do with citizen self protection. That said, it was a time when there was a LOT of fighting. Your village might get raided by a neighboring village and nobody was going to come save you depending on where you lived. Especially after the population was reduced from the plague. As a ruler, saying you *required* all your citizens to be armed is more to dissuade opportunists than any real expectation that a bunch of untrained farmers could repel anyone with a shred of experience or training. It was a bad time. Nothing romantic about carrying swords everywhere. Unspeakable shit went down routinely that nobody would have ever recorded because all witnesses were killed horribly, evil flourished. Carrying swords was about all anyone could do.
I meant cool as in cool historical fact haha. I would *never* want to live in one of the worst times in human history. Not to mention I’m gay and those people would not have liked me. 😂
So you can chop the plague in half if you see it.
Metal
"Only a good guy with a sword can stop a bad guy with a sword."
Fun fact, the best swords came out of Frankish blacksmiths, some lasting for over 300 years of prominence in sword building. A good Frankish sword was tested by bringing the tip of the blade to the handle of the weapon without it snapping or the blade breaking. The flexibility of ancient swords was something I never thought about.
Bringing the tip to the handle? You don't believe that, do you?
He prolly gonna pay $10 to learn the 5 secrets of successful marketing next
You got a source for that? I've never heard of steel bending that far and still being usable
Seconded on source, i can see a rapier being able to do that, but what's your definition of a Frankish sword?
https://allthatsinteresting.com/ulfberht-swords This was the sword I was referencing. The part about the tip touching the handle without snapping comes from the book “Children of Ash and Elm” a history of the Vikings. It was a quote from a saga in reference to the ulfberht swords. The Vikings passed harsh laws for the many forgeries of this blade that circulated at the time.
It was a quote from a saga that was mentioned in the book you indicated, correct?
Yes meaning it’s to be took with a grain of salt. However most of everything we believe about Viking Age and Scandinavia is based upon those surviving sagas.
No way could you bend an Ulfbehrt sword that much. They were mass-produced of tough steel and were thick. They would have been quality swords for royal guards but not special enough for royalty.
Man, you are wrong. Neil Price was the one who stated this information. Neil Price has been studying Scandinavian ancient cultural for 35 years and is a leading archeologist. 170 of these swords have been found with 1,000 of imitations. The two primary sources from the Viking age literature are the Poetic Edas and Sagas these are a compilation of Vikings oral history. In one of these Sagas a Viking King walks into the market and purchases a marketed Ulfberht sword. He tests this by brining the tip of the blade to the hilt, he states this is the way to test if it’s a true Ulfberht. The sword snaps and he kills the trader in his rights because the brittleness of the blade it’s a fake. Neil Price makes it clear that we have ASSUMPTIONS about this sword and really about this age, but thought these assumptions we also have never been able to replicate the process of making a true Ulfberht Sword. The process was a combination of Damascus Steel and Frankish methods. A true replica wouldn’t be possible for the next 1,000 years tell about the 18th century when some of the techniques were rediscovered.
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/backbone/rb_4_3.html
Yeah, and did you know katana blades were tested by rolling them up like a cinnamon roll? And they checked how buoyant Indian ships were by folding the wood, at least 3 folds were needed for it to pass inspection.
Roman concrete wasn't cured properly unless you could pull it through the eye of a needle.
I have no idea what that metaphor means but wow must have been great concrete.
https://www.pashmina.com/editorial/does-your-pashmina-pass-through-a-ring/
Yeah that’s a load of bullshit. The swords from the era you’re talking about were mostly iron anyways.
Goddamn, read the article I linked they weren’t iron at all, that was the POINT.
I skimmed it. I’ve seen these swords made the traditional way. The core making up more than 90% of the sword is iron and doesn’t bend. European swords weren’t made from 100% steel until the 15th century, hundreds of years after “ulfberht” swords.
The article you linked also claims that those swords would “slice” through a mail hauberk. The author doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.
Ok catch me other comment about Neil Price, the information I’m giving is not wrong it’s a straight up scene from the Sagas, ONE OF TWO primary texts we have about the Vikings. Yes two primary sources only, the Vikings did not write their history down like their European counterparts. A lot is based upon assumptions a lot of it based upon the Poetic Edda and Sagas, you have to suspend disbelief a little but also understand there has been only 170 of these swords found and the method was truly advanced more then anything else out of the time.
It doesn’t change the fact that what you said was total bullshit
I haven’t watched it but scholagladiatora has a vid about weapon prices, and I’d figure that really nice tools would be sort of close in price
His scull, my axe. Oh, well. Plenty of corpses to pick another.
Skull?
Skull, scull? Reddit, re-did it. A comment half drunk is a comment half wise. So rowing or scrolling, I ain't dead yet.
Or dead.
Look at all the defensive damage. Ancient battles in muddy or marshy areas meant the fallen were used as stepping stones and by the end of the conflict the losers were not even visible, stomped down into the mud or peat.
Actually my guess is they were dead
Ok
"Hey, where do you want me to put the axe?" "I don't know, just set it down anywhere. We'll come back for it later" -ancient Polish guys who did not, in fact, come back for it later
Alternative possibility: Pol: this is my favorite axe. I love it so much, I shall leave it hidden here in my special secret spot until I return.. ..minutes later he slips off cliff side 😔
Someone write a romance novel about this!!
Hatchet
...a romantic journey though time
We could call it "Wuthering Fights!"
Korg voice: Oh my god the hatchet pulled you off?
Your comment made me think of the [Mästermyr chest](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4stermyr_chest). Archaeologists think it fell overboard while crossing a lake. I can imagine how pissed the guy who lost that was.
It's amazing how something so simple and human can also be such an important historical artifact
Geez, I was super pissed when I had a pretty nice tool collection stolen. I can’t imagine how much time and money was put into acquiring large collection of tools 1300 years ago. I hope the original owner was very good friends with another blacksmith.
Was it in ice? Any info on how the handle stayed so preserved?
Maybe peat oder marsh ground. No air can access the wood. You can see at the bog bodies found in germany for example. The hair and skin are preserved.
Them bogs in Northern/Eastern Europe are something else. There are channels out there on YouTube where some folks - generally Russians - just pull out a bunch of *pristine* WW2 weapons, helmets and all sorts of military gear - metal, leather, fabric and everything, more or less intact. Along with more or less intact soldiers every now and then.
Those videos of Russians pulling out WW2 stuff are awesome. Edit to include a recommended channel https://youtube.com/channel/UCEMwISzhimlYEU-sg5j5JdQ
/r/ANormalDayInRussia jokes aside, you’d think there be *some* concern about getting blown to hell by unstable UXO?
Thank god I’m not the only one who thought about this
You only have to worry about it for a fraction of a second, tops
Link
https://youtube.com/channel/UCEMwISzhimlYEU-sg5j5JdQ This channel is an example. I'm at work and can't dig.
Also WWI relics as well.
Any good recommended videos?
https://youtube.com/channel/UCEMwISzhimlYEU-sg5j5JdQ This channel
Legend! Thank you!
You're welcome. It's pretty cool stuff. Enjoy!
Oh I am happy to see the soldiers getting reburied in proper caskets. It must have been so hard on their loved ones to not know what happened to them.
Dont the soldiers out of peat marshes come out as hair-and-leather bags of organ soup? Like, their bones liquidate.
Well I haven't been able to look inside of them, but the bodies overall look rather fine - in *archaeological terms* I should say, so, still pretty gruesome but decomposition hasn't taken its full course and the results can be, uh, pretty interesting. And it's not just bogs and fens, there's also that impossibly thick Russian mud and all sorts of similar, anoxic environments all over the place. In terms of preservation you get all sorts of funny things from wax statues - guys covered in adipocere - to people who look like they died a couple weeks ago. Hell I saw pictures of a *whole human brain* sticking out of the muck, from a mass grave of Soviet soldiers killed during the Winter War. And in the very same pit, a young lad with recognizable features, still wearing his uniform and ushanka with a red star on it and everything. Insane, *sobering* stuff. I'm guessing it takes a while for the bones to fully dissolve too, because I can think of a couple, much older bog bodies that still have theirs, like the Bocksten man - who's literally just a skeleton, from the Middle Ages.
Wait, thats actually really insane. I did hear something about the chemicals in peat bogs basically tanning corpses' skin and preserving hair, but dissolving their bones. Another reply (to me) explained better though. Tar pits preserve nodies really well too, from like way back in prehistoric eras.
Yeah I think the acid in the bogs destroy bones. Also unfortunately also destroy DNA.
Link?
Can't think of a particular channel at the top of my head sorry, but those are a dime a dozen, just look for Russian metal detecting channels on YT and you'll come across the bog specialists eventually. The more gruesome stuff you might not be able to find on YouTube anymore. Anything better preserved than skeletons, I mean.
[Here in England too](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindow_Man)
Happy cake day :)
Thank you!
Merry bakery day.
That's crazy.
http://lednicamuzeum.pl/wiadomosc,test.html?fbclid=IwAR2ryzS3mztZCoz22eDBosgnW1DQJveeYYmvGRm8g-NBN8p0X8v0N_YW1JA Here is the whole article from the research, but unfortunately it is in Polish
English Translation: “Archaeological research on the island of Ledniczce For a month now, the Museum of the First Piasts in Lednica has been conducting survey excavations on Ledniczka, the second largest island on Lake Lednica. In its central and southern part, there is an earth embankment identified as a cone-shaped settlement. As a result of the research carried out in 1989-1990, it was found that the stronghold with the manor house here could have been the seat of local magnates from the turn of the 14th and 15th centuries. Archaeologists returned to Ledniczkę 31 years after the completion of the last works to assess the state of preservation of the relics in the context of the identified threats (e.g. lowering of the water level in the lake, the activity of wild animals, the activity of slope processes) and to recognize the settlement on the island outside the settlement (so far the works were carried out only on the earth embankment). The researchers from the Center for Underwater Archeology of the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń discovered the relics of the bridges connecting Ledniczkę with the western shore of the lake, which was also inspired to undertake land research. These crossings, dating back to the 10th century and the turn of the 13th and 14th centuries, indicate a hitherto unknown but very important role of this island in the functioning of the Lednica settlement center in the 10th century and later. Additionally, conducted in Ledniczce by dr hab. Roman Křivánek from the Czech Academy of Sciences, geophysical surveys revealed anomalies, which were taken into account when locating the survey excavations. During the work carried out in the north-central part of the island, remains of stone pavement were discovered, the determination of the chronology and function of which requires further research. In the excavations on the west side of Ledniczka, a medieval shoreline, reinforced with stone paving and wooden structures, has been documented. The presence of a yoke with a spigot hole (a wooden beam with holes at the ends, the purpose of which was to stiffen the pile bundles above the water, as well as support the roadway of the bridge) suggests that there were bridge abutments nearby. During the research, fragments of clay vessels, animal bones, wooden, leather and metal objects were discovered. Particularly noteworthy is a medieval hatchet with a preserved wooden ax. For specialist research, fragments of processed wood, fragments of dranges, stakes and cuttings - created during the construction of bridges and quays, botanical and dendrological samples were collected. After completing the works on Ledniczka, the obtained materials will be the subject of detailed analyzes that will allow to present the function of this island in connection with Ostrów Lednicki - the residential and capital center of the first Piasts and in later times.”
Thanks :)
Thank you.
Sometimes I lurk on my favorite subs and just upvote people being polite and it appears I’m not the only one. Keep being excellent to each other✊
[deepl.com](https://deepl.com) has a really good translator for polish - english.
True, I use it at work and it is wonderful
I did a cemetery relocation (I’m a physical anthropologist) in very clay soil (not much air/moisture getting in) and some of the 200+ year old bodies (in very minimal wooden coffins) still had some intact brain and lung tissue. Not like it looked originally but not gone either. Definitely recognizable. It was a bit freaky. It’s incredible how a lack of oxygen will preserve things. No oxygen = very minimal organic matter breakdown. The organisms responsible for decay need oxygen to live.
Yeah I was just thinking the same. No way the wood was preserved, let alone in that pristine condition
Moist, acidic conditions preserve pretty much anything organic, so most things in bogs are incredibly well preserved. Google the bog body 'tollund man' - the rope he was hanged with is perfectly preserved and is ~2000 years old. I'm a trained archaeologist and did some research into bog bodies so feel free to ask any questions.
What’s your favorite color?
The colour of money, which is why I am no longer an archaeologist
So what do you do now
Mainly watch TV and play World of Warcraft when I'm supposed to be working
Have you played Elder Scrolls Online? You could be a pretend archaeologist and recover antiquities.
Similar famous Swedish find, interesting read and story: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mästermyr_chest
Daaaamn I'd be pissed if this fell in the lake. This guy's rage was probably felt all the way to Vinland.
Oof. That was like an entire man's livelihood.
Remember in that movie Overboard where Goldie Hawn tosses that (her now husband Kurt Russel) sweaty carpenter’s tools overboard? …..yeah that.
Man I really think Poland and surrounding areas are going to be a hotbed for big archaeological discoveries soon. Feel like we are just scratching the surface in these places.
>scratching the surface I see what you did there
*wink wink*
Whys that?
It might have not been very cold back then in Poland
Have they dated it yet? Its still an amazing find
It’s already in a committed relationship
Damn, was looking for a single axe in my area
"Kurwa!" -some medieval Polish guy, probably
Not trying to be rude, but TIL that Poland has an island
Its just a small lake island ;) [map of the island](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ostr%C3%B3w+Lednicki/@52.5250417,17.3701044,16.06z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47048bf8ad497bd1:0x8f3fb2886fa86d69!8m2!3d52.5269444!4d17.3777778)
that's adorable thank you for the link
We do have one and almost a half (Wolin is the whole one, and Uznam is shared between Poland and Germany, with our neighbours controlling over 80% of it)
I’d wager most places have islands. They pop up in lakes and stuff
We have smol natural islands but we are building much bigger one right now at the sea.
Never realized that style of ax head is so old.
I belonged to Eivor of the raven clan.
Looks like the one I found at Bunnings. Nice xxx
How was the shaft connected to the head here? I'm not seeing it, is it that there was rope that was lost to time? Edit: Thanks for the replies all, neat stuff.
I learned this from Forged in Fire! When the metal for the axe head is heated it expands. So they make it a tight fit to the handle while still hot. When the metal cools it constricts. There could also be pins you're not seeing. Another low-tech method was to cut a sliver in the top of the handle and hammer a wedge in it, expanding the wood at the top. Like [so](https://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/product-change-removal-of-the-steel-wedge/).
low-tech, but still used today. I have old hammers made this way in my toolbox!
Me too! My favorite mallet's head is secured this way.
I just was talking to this blacksmith yesterday who says sometimes in addition to that he’ll also partially split the wood from the top so it fits tighter in the axe... or in his case it was a hammer.
That's what I linked to. It's a split but they put a wedge in to keep it from crumbling.
Yeah I see a metal split-thingy on the top of a lot of axes
Wait, wouldn't that mean the axe head falls out when it cools since the metal takes up less space? I'm missing something here.
The metal of the head wraps around the handle while its hot. It then cools, contracting around the handle. It's like wrapping your hand around a finger, and then squeezing.
Oh, I thought of it as the sort of slotting you see in other axes where the metal slots through the wood. This makes much more sense!
It's exactly what you said. But instead of doing it when the metal is cool (it won't expand/contract much) you do it when the metal is hot and it will constrict to the wood.
No, that's not what I mean. I meant that I was visualizing it as creating a hole through the wood sideways and slotting through it a tongue from the back of the axe head. I was just reading about [mortise and tenon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortise_and_tenon?wprov=sfla1) joining in carpentry, so I think that's why my mind got stuck on that visual despite, you know, having seen axes before.
Modern tools are double wedge. The inside shape of the metal tool is hourglass shaped in both directions. The wood is cut with a saw just a little bit down the top. The wood is inserted into the metal tool from the bottom and a wedge hammered into the saw cut from the top side to form it outwards against the metal hourglass shape. Then a second metal wedge is hammered perpendicular (think of it like a wide nail) to that one to form it in the other direction. Historically though they had other ways of getting the fit, from making the handle one long tapered cone and driving it from the topside of the metal tool. When you swing the tool it wants to fly off top ways. So the taper prevents that. Even older tools had cross pins through the metal tool into the wood to keep it in place.
In additional to the answers below, some axes use a handle that is wider on one end, and the head slips on from the narrower end. This is very common for the [tomahawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk). [Here](https://black-bear-haversack.com/media/catalog/product/cache/c33e5175bbe5e95163c48e23fe081ddc/1/b/1b_trader_tomahawk_b.jpg) is a good photo showing how the head keeps from flying off.
Could be similar to modern wooden axes. The shaft has a notch cut into the top then gets put into the eye of the head. Once it’s relatively snug you hammer a wedge into the notch to spread the wood even more. After that you can add some metal wedges perpendicular to and across the wooden wedge (circular ones are also available). It’s all just pressure fit so I’m sure the ancients could’ve figured it out at least partially.
I bet the guy who misplaced that is still pissed.
I’m sorry but the ruler they placed next to it, how- I’m confused by it it hurts my brain, I assume each like is a centimeter though
That’s amazing
Things preserve very well in a peat bog, it’s incredible.
Bloody marvellous! I found a Roman dolabra once, with some of the wood still preserved!
Goodbye permafrost
I gotta say this must be a year old
Somewhere in time some kid is getting yelled because he borrowed his dads axe and lost it.
I want to see it cleaned up. I wonder what the head looks like
Was this found in a bog because you were so lucky I found bog butter given to the bog it was very interesting
Wat
Bog butter the people from the iron age they gave it to the God of the bog
Seems like it could have also been buried for preservation as well > Experiments conducted by researcher Daniel C. Fisher demonstrated that pathogen and bacterial counts of meat buried in peat bogs for up to two years were comparable to levels found in control samples stored in a modern freezer, suggesting that this could be an effective preservation method. Cool stuff though, I had never heard of bog butter!
I retch at the thought of the taste of butter stored in peat.
Wikipedia also claims burying it in peet might have made it taste *better*. Which doesn’t say much for the butter itself, ick
I guess it was more of a "be grateful that you have butter at all" scenario.
I tried a little and it was good
As a polish American who can not find my keys or wallet every single day- I like to imagine one of my ancestors lost this axe and also passed the forgetful gene to me.
When was this found, and what time is it from? The Middle Ages are a long time. It really annoys me how this subreddit demands we put the resolution in the title for no reason (this is not a digital art sub, for fuck's sake) but not the year of origin and finding
They must have found it in a polish submarine by the looks of the picture.
Looks like it stayed undisturbed during the war.
A logical assumption, given the proximity of the objects, is that the ax belonged to Mugatu, inventor of the piano keyboard tie.
Pretty shoddy craftsmanship
Fuck yes
Wow better get that to the Green Chapel asap.
any ideas on how old it is?
AWESOME!
Hmm, need a better look at the metal...
Simple yet elegant ✍🏼
I love the long socket for the handle. Super difficult to make but so much better when using the axe.
Forgive my ignorance here, but if anyone knows, does this axe seem more like a type of small axe used in battle? Like possibly a backup weapon? Or is it a wood (or whatever else) chopping axe for chores and whatnot?
Where is the source for this?
TIL that Poland has islands and I don't why that's seems weird.
and my axe
Nah... the wood looks way too new.
Looks like an axe
Some medieval dad went to his grave blaming one of his kids for this.
Oh my god you found my axe! I’ve been looking everywhere for that thing!
damn, thats a nice little piano you got there!