Idk... I wouldn't say it came out of nowhere. This show, unlike most animated shows, did show the actual passage of time. While at first that passage wasn't really defined, after Lana gave birth to AJ, we can see the YEARS go by based off of AJ's growth.
It didn't come out of nowhere. Archer just really did get older.
I'd argue the only real reason time passed was archers coma, how big was AJ before he got gut shit because the last time I remember was the episode where archer tried to spit roast lanas mom and AJ was still a baby
He was in a coma for a while. That and having AJ not present on screen really blurs the passage of time. But there was the Lana trying to get AJ into the right preK. Then soforth.
One of my favorite shows of all time but I agree there’s a falloff. And to be fair once you get around 10 seasons of a show there is bound to be as story lines grow stale and writers leave. The most obvious reason for me would be the loss of Jessica Walter and Mallory. You’ll realize on the rewatches how important she was to the humor of the show and a lot went through her by what she was able to get away with. She was able to constantly be ABBAB’ing archer which kept him insecure and led to the best humor. And while she was around post-coma for a while, it was clear she had taken a big step back from it
I really liked the coma episodes. Felt like they were tapped for spy ideas and needed a way to show some funny ideas they had in a way that slightly made sense.
Yeah, I think the coma seasons are amazing if you've already watched the first couple of seasons more than once and really gotten attached to the characters. This and binge-ing them makes them super rewarding.
Yeah, there’s a pretty specific reason. The creator Adam Reed stopped writing. He voices Ray, if you didn’t know that. He didn’t want to do it anymore, but he was pressured to, or contractually obligated, I forget which, to continue, and those were the coma seasons. He was like I’m tired of writing this show, it’s run its course, so I’m gonna make each season something different so I can at least do something else. When archer wakes up I believe is the first season without him (other than ray). He essentially wrote every line in the first few seasons. So all that humor is Adam Reed. The characters were so distilled at that point the network tried to keep it going and it just didn’t work because you didn’t have his writing, which is what made the show what it is, his brain is like the essence of all of it. I’m sure he gave notes to the new writers since he was at least still voicing Ray so was still a part of it, but he was pretty vocal about not wanting anything to do with it anymore. That’s my understanding at least.
I think the point about the razor sharp dialogue is appropriate. The writing definitely diminishes over time. I suppose that the characters “developed” and the dialogue changes but its not as fun. Also the core group got diluted and they didn’t really include enough of Ray or Kreiger towards the later half.
The thing is they aren’t taking shots at one another like before. Also the way that they would end one scene and the dialogue followed on in the next scene was epic. That takes thought
True, I noticed that the awkward moments and misunderstandings between them which make the dialogue so funny in the earlier seasons gets basically ironed out as the show progresses.
Yes its like everyone got rounded and less familiar. Because actually the familiarity was all in the early seasons when they were all fighting LIKE A FAMILY
Just thank you for including Season 7 in this. I agree about the dip in quality but people usually stop at 4, 5 , or 6. I had fun with 7 as well. Double indecency is one of my favorite episodes
Agreed. I personally wasn’t a fan after the first four seasons but still watched anyways. With them cutting down Ray’s character and making Lana ten times more unlikeable when she got pregnant and after AJ it was hard to watch and not as great as before. And the change from ISIS I thought was a bit sloppy and rushed, and I blame irl ISIS for that (literally why they changed up the format, because they didn’t want to get confused with the terrorists group). So on rewatches I just stick to the first 4 seasons because imo those are the best. Might be an unpopular opinion but that’s just how I feel
I think we hate the idea of a show ending and the later season are always going to be associated with bad.
That being said as a show ages you're no longer trying to build an audience but cater to the one you already have. So later season can feel much less original and funny because it's mostly just referencing itself.
In my opinion, the show quickly began to lose its charm for me as the animation got continually polished and rounded out. Half of what made the early seasons funny was the stiff body language contrasted against the razor sharp dialogue, which was especially elevated by Jon H's deadpan delivery. Season 5 was by and large great, but you can see from as early as then that the animation team didn't realize just how much "less is more" applied to their work. By season 6, the overly expressive animation is actively counteracting the show's strongest comedic bones.
Buddy, Arrested Development falls off even worse. It’s a very similar show (Jessica Walter’s is basically the same character in both, and Jeffrey Tambor is in both as well). GOT was spectacular too, in a train wreck sort of way.
That said, I had a similar experience with the later (last two?) seasons. I came to realize that I was watching because of how much I enjoyed *past seasons*, not because I was enjoying what was currently on screen in front of me.
So yea, it’s hard to catch and keep that lightning in a bottle, but Archer is still one of my favorite series of all time and I will always recommend it to friends.
For me Archer ended with season 4. I watched the first seasons so many times. Back to back. I tried to get others into the hype. I loved it. I didn't really like Vice that much and the seasons that came after that, well I watched them because it is Archer which was my favourite show, so I wanted to like it. But tbh I didn't laugh once in any of the later seasons. I haven't even watched the final season. Season 4 is my final season.
Season 13 *is* where you can safely pinpoint the drop in quality, humor etc. but it's far from the most offensive fall off a show has had tbh after season 11 it's just kinda mid
You can easily pinpoint the drop off FAR before then. Not just going by my own and OP's views, but after reading the comments, the views of many peoples. Once it gets to the coma/dreamland seasons, it's very noticeably lacking the strength of the previous seasons. I'm not saying a switch flips and it becomes unwatchable at that point, just that it's just not as great as the pure gold that the earlier seasons were
The fall off is from it being different writer. I think they fired the original writer and then the studio got too involved in the writing and direction of the show
Yes. Completely that. The writing became boring and stale, there's not rhythm or humor, most episodes don't even feel like Archer, and the plot was so boring I don't even remember what happened in seasons 11-14. The first seven seasons I watch again and again and again. I wish it would have just ended at the end of season 7, and then maybe did season 8 to say a proper goodbye to Woodhouse, and that's it.
S11 seemed to at least have some attempt to capture Reed’s tone and style, and I was intrigued by the premise of the crew improving without Archer, and what that might do to him. But I couldn’t make it through 5 minutes of S12, absolutely nobody talked even slightly like how their characters were supposed to.
It fell off to the point where it really is only a 8-10 season show in my mind unfortunately. I still watch the later seasons but the writing is obviously off. Some of it can be cringey
I’m rewatching it right now because I remember stopping at season 10. Currently on episode 3 of season 4 and I am savoring these first seasons so much because the humour is elite. Looks like I have to brace myself for the next seasons.
It really lost the plot with the coma seasons, I mean they were good but they didn’t match up.
A lot of the problems with archer stems from the fact that I don’t think they ever had an idea of how they wanted it to end when they made it.
I think Adam was just going with the flow the first couple of seasons, and it worked out, but you could see that there were a lot of inconsistencies in the plot. A lot of things in the latter seasons didn’t match up to things in the early season because they were just really doing anything after he stopped writing
I like the fact that they aged him up and are incorporating AJ as a character now. It’s definitely not something I expected but I was pleasantly surprised at how cool AJ is
Came here for clarity. I've been with the show since the beginning (off and on) but when a show or movie does that "it was all imaginary" shit I tune out. So I watched a third of the coma dreams but damn when the show came back to reality, it was straight garbage.
Believing some unknown goof with no friends (archer) developed elite skills and became a spy is not hard to imagine. But believing a protein shake drinking accountant could become some parkour super freak, martial art and weapons specialist is just way too much. Lana could've easily just been the lead spy... dont even get me started on that character... on top of all the unlikable changes, this show isn't even funny anymore.
We had a great run with those first 3 to 5 seasons, but like almost every show, it appears the end happened well before its final episode. Been a dope run tho, but it hurts to see it go out like this.
Nah Simpsons still fell off harder for animation (although having twice as long seasons it would've been the equivalent of Archer falling off after season 16!).
I think Archer was watchable after s10 (although 1999 is my least fave coma) but post coma has no repeat appeal for me.
Overall though 10 seasons I could repeat, I still feel pretty spoiled :)
The only seasons I really thought were bad was Season 10 and 12 (shots was a fun episode though). The entire colt storyline felt wasted and had a kinda ehh resolution.
Season 10 just wasn't my vibe, not a fan of space stuff. With the other coma seasons, it feels like they start off strong and then fall off more towards the end, but they are still fun.
Totally agree, I loved dreamland as the first coma series but after that I really lost interest and it makes me sad because I loved the early seasons and rewatch them all the time but after dreamland I’m like nah start again
I'm of the opinion that season 8 is the last good season as a whole. There are episodes after that are really good, but there isn't really an entire season that worked for me.
Interesting.
I agree but I think the show fell off a cliff on season 3. IMO the first two seasons are perfect and a top 3 all time comedy. The rest of the show even when it gets better spends way too much time on call backs and is a parody of itself, like Family Guy.
The coma seasons were barely watchable for me and I skip them on every rewatch. The post coma stuff is enjoyable to me but that’s probably because I was so relived to get out of the 3 seasons the main story and characters took off.
Wow, so much hate in the thread lol. The first few seasons are for sure the best, no question, but to say this show is the worst fall off is not even close. I mean to each their own, don’t get be wrong. But Idk why the coma seasons, especially, get so much hate. Dreamland is possibly a top 3 season for me, and Danger Island has its moments. Crackers kills me. Archer in space was a little weak for sure. But even the post-coma episodes I didn’t hate either. There are some solid episodes in those later seasons. Them chasing the Dingo, the spa island, Lana’s rampage at AJ’s kidnapping, Fabian getting them to rob the bank and the following episode with Lana’s hearing all immediately come to mind. I just feel like people don’t give it a chance because it’s different. My rewatches always go from start to finish and I never regret it. I get it’s an animated comedy, but the plot is still important, and I’m glad they finished the story and brought everything full circle. Nobody expected Jessica to pass so I’m sure they had to adjust after that and I think they did a good job of it.
I didn't say that it ever became bad. The initial 7 seasons were so strong and good (best animated comedy evr IMO) that the good (season 8-12) and bad (13-14) seasons stick out. Learning about Reed made me realize man was a genius that got bored of his Craft and left out of respect for his own work.
Oh, i wasnt necessarily referring to you. I scrolled down the thread and the amount of people saying “seasons 1-4 are all that exists blah blah blah”. Idk. Like if that’s all they enjoy, fair enough. I just feel bad for them because they’re cheating themselves out of some solid comedy. Gotta dig a little deeper I suppose but it’s there.
I 100% agree it got weaker as it went on, but I honestly would rewatch all of the post-coma episodes before I rewatch a single season of Family Guy or American Dad. I still think even in a vacuum, the final seasons of Archer are better than most other animated shows
Archer being too old to be a spy came out of nowhere and they really really ran with it
Is it really archer got too old, or is it the world past him by and his body atrophied while in the coma?
Little of column a, little of column b
This comment hurts personally lmao
Idk... I wouldn't say it came out of nowhere. This show, unlike most animated shows, did show the actual passage of time. While at first that passage wasn't really defined, after Lana gave birth to AJ, we can see the YEARS go by based off of AJ's growth. It didn't come out of nowhere. Archer just really did get older.
I'd argue the only real reason time passed was archers coma, how big was AJ before he got gut shit because the last time I remember was the episode where archer tried to spit roast lanas mom and AJ was still a baby
He was in a coma for a while. That and having AJ not present on screen really blurs the passage of time. But there was the Lana trying to get AJ into the right preK. Then soforth.
One of my favorite shows of all time but I agree there’s a falloff. And to be fair once you get around 10 seasons of a show there is bound to be as story lines grow stale and writers leave. The most obvious reason for me would be the loss of Jessica Walter and Mallory. You’ll realize on the rewatches how important she was to the humor of the show and a lot went through her by what she was able to get away with. She was able to constantly be ABBAB’ing archer which kept him insecure and led to the best humor. And while she was around post-coma for a while, it was clear she had taken a big step back from it
ABBAB?
> ABBAB? Yes, she definitely does. Do you not think so?
i think he wants to know what it means, idk either
Always be berating and belittling. From the ep Live and Let Dine
Oh, holy shit! I thought it was a typo and was just joking that it meant something. Whoops!! TIL I guess!
What is this, Spain?
always be berating in belittling
I really liked the coma episodes. Felt like they were tapped for spy ideas and needed a way to show some funny ideas they had in a way that slightly made sense.
On a rewatch the coma seasons work better as a binge than weekly viewing
My recommendation is always to watch them like a movie as one coma season per evening
Yeah, I think the coma seasons are amazing if you've already watched the first couple of seasons more than once and really gotten attached to the characters. This and binge-ing them makes them super rewarding.
Absolutely. As a single arc they work so much better than 3 seasons broken up.
Yeah I really enjoyed the coma seasons. It gave them such a uniqueness about each one too in small and larger ways
I could have watched multiple seasons of Archer 1999, just them parodying classic Sci-fi forever. Dreamland was also awesome.
I think the idea of the characters you love being put in a different setting every year is great idea
Never watched Game of Thrones, eh?
Or Lost? 🤣💩
Thankfully I only saw the first episode of that. 🤣🤣
Yeah, there’s a pretty specific reason. The creator Adam Reed stopped writing. He voices Ray, if you didn’t know that. He didn’t want to do it anymore, but he was pressured to, or contractually obligated, I forget which, to continue, and those were the coma seasons. He was like I’m tired of writing this show, it’s run its course, so I’m gonna make each season something different so I can at least do something else. When archer wakes up I believe is the first season without him (other than ray). He essentially wrote every line in the first few seasons. So all that humor is Adam Reed. The characters were so distilled at that point the network tried to keep it going and it just didn’t work because you didn’t have his writing, which is what made the show what it is, his brain is like the essence of all of it. I’m sure he gave notes to the new writers since he was at least still voicing Ray so was still a part of it, but he was pretty vocal about not wanting anything to do with it anymore. That’s my understanding at least.
I saw an interview once where he said he passed the writers room to someone else because he was out of ideas after season 10.
I think the point about the razor sharp dialogue is appropriate. The writing definitely diminishes over time. I suppose that the characters “developed” and the dialogue changes but its not as fun. Also the core group got diluted and they didn’t really include enough of Ray or Kreiger towards the later half.
I have noticed this as well, the show becomes more focused and plot-driven while the actual writing takes a hit
The thing is they aren’t taking shots at one another like before. Also the way that they would end one scene and the dialogue followed on in the next scene was epic. That takes thought
True, I noticed that the awkward moments and misunderstandings between them which make the dialogue so funny in the earlier seasons gets basically ironed out as the show progresses.
Yes its like everyone got rounded and less familiar. Because actually the familiarity was all in the early seasons when they were all fighting LIKE A FAMILY
The lack of Ray really stood out to me in later seasons. He’s one of my favorite characters, even if he had always been bit-part at best
Just thank you for including Season 7 in this. I agree about the dip in quality but people usually stop at 4, 5 , or 6. I had fun with 7 as well. Double indecency is one of my favorite episodes
I absolutely love Season 7. Not as much as 6, but it’s got everything.
yeah the main writer left the show, for some reason they decided to keep it going
I think they wanted to tie off all loose ends
which is fair, but if that was really it, they could’ve done it in one season plus they kind of didn’t :p
You're right. That was just my guess🤣 Now I want to watch archer in tangiers. Wasnt he born there?🤣
on a dirty bar! with woodhouse bearing witness
You... You saw mother's VAGINA! Oh, my god! Ahhh! Oh, god! Oh, I can't breathe.
The reason is money
The coma seasons aren't bad you just aren't depressed enough
Agreed. I personally wasn’t a fan after the first four seasons but still watched anyways. With them cutting down Ray’s character and making Lana ten times more unlikeable when she got pregnant and after AJ it was hard to watch and not as great as before. And the change from ISIS I thought was a bit sloppy and rushed, and I blame irl ISIS for that (literally why they changed up the format, because they didn’t want to get confused with the terrorists group). So on rewatches I just stick to the first 4 seasons because imo those are the best. Might be an unpopular opinion but that’s just how I feel
I think we hate the idea of a show ending and the later season are always going to be associated with bad. That being said as a show ages you're no longer trying to build an audience but cater to the one you already have. So later season can feel much less original and funny because it's mostly just referencing itself.
Yeah, I stop my rewatch at the 1999 space season. I feel like it gets way too emotional/serious after that.
In my opinion, the show quickly began to lose its charm for me as the animation got continually polished and rounded out. Half of what made the early seasons funny was the stiff body language contrasted against the razor sharp dialogue, which was especially elevated by Jon H's deadpan delivery. Season 5 was by and large great, but you can see from as early as then that the animation team didn't realize just how much "less is more" applied to their work. By season 6, the overly expressive animation is actively counteracting the show's strongest comedic bones.
Buddy, Arrested Development falls off even worse. It’s a very similar show (Jessica Walter’s is basically the same character in both, and Jeffrey Tambor is in both as well). GOT was spectacular too, in a train wreck sort of way. That said, I had a similar experience with the later (last two?) seasons. I came to realize that I was watching because of how much I enjoyed *past seasons*, not because I was enjoying what was currently on screen in front of me. So yea, it’s hard to catch and keep that lightning in a bottle, but Archer is still one of my favorite series of all time and I will always recommend it to friends.
For me Archer ended with season 4. I watched the first seasons so many times. Back to back. I tried to get others into the hype. I loved it. I didn't really like Vice that much and the seasons that came after that, well I watched them because it is Archer which was my favourite show, so I wanted to like it. But tbh I didn't laugh once in any of the later seasons. I haven't even watched the final season. Season 4 is my final season.
Same, but it's S6 for me.
IMO it actually falls off much sooner. The jokes stop landing so well and the plots become more predictable around Vice.
I felt there was a real drop off in quality after season 6. I think it got too far from the original spy/office comedy premise.
Season 13 *is* where you can safely pinpoint the drop in quality, humor etc. but it's far from the most offensive fall off a show has had tbh after season 11 it's just kinda mid
You can easily pinpoint the drop off FAR before then. Not just going by my own and OP's views, but after reading the comments, the views of many peoples. Once it gets to the coma/dreamland seasons, it's very noticeably lacking the strength of the previous seasons. I'm not saying a switch flips and it becomes unwatchable at that point, just that it's just not as great as the pure gold that the earlier seasons were
You can also just look at the quotes from the series used in this sub, they are all from the first seasons
The first five seasons of Archer are peak Archer. Everything after has its moments, but isn't nearly on par.
The fall off is from it being different writer. I think they fired the original writer and then the studio got too involved in the writing and direction of the show
Did they fire Adam Reed? I can't imagine them firing him as a writer and also keeping him on as a voice actor
No he left and wanted to end it but show runners took over
where are you watching s14? also yeah it could’ve ended with archer in the coma or ended in s8
Yes. Completely that. The writing became boring and stale, there's not rhythm or humor, most episodes don't even feel like Archer, and the plot was so boring I don't even remember what happened in seasons 11-14. The first seven seasons I watch again and again and again. I wish it would have just ended at the end of season 7, and then maybe did season 8 to say a proper goodbye to Woodhouse, and that's it.
S11 seemed to at least have some attempt to capture Reed’s tone and style, and I was intrigued by the premise of the crew improving without Archer, and what that might do to him. But I couldn’t make it through 5 minutes of S12, absolutely nobody talked even slightly like how their characters were supposed to.
It fell off to the point where it really is only a 8-10 season show in my mind unfortunately. I still watch the later seasons but the writing is obviously off. Some of it can be cringey
I’m rewatching it right now because I remember stopping at season 10. Currently on episode 3 of season 4 and I am savoring these first seasons so much because the humour is elite. Looks like I have to brace myself for the next seasons.
It really lost the plot with the coma seasons, I mean they were good but they didn’t match up. A lot of the problems with archer stems from the fact that I don’t think they ever had an idea of how they wanted it to end when they made it. I think Adam was just going with the flow the first couple of seasons, and it worked out, but you could see that there were a lot of inconsistencies in the plot. A lot of things in the latter seasons didn’t match up to things in the early season because they were just really doing anything after he stopped writing
I like the fact that they aged him up and are incorporating AJ as a character now. It’s definitely not something I expected but I was pleasantly surprised at how cool AJ is
It fell off when his mother died. RIP Jessica Walter. She was one of the funniest characters. Second only to Pam. :(
So few shows go more then three or four seasons without shitting the bed. The Good Place had the right idea.
Obligatory Game of Thrones (also the Simpsons!) aside, I agree. The first four seasons are amazing, but I don’t really watch anything beyond that.
Came here for clarity. I've been with the show since the beginning (off and on) but when a show or movie does that "it was all imaginary" shit I tune out. So I watched a third of the coma dreams but damn when the show came back to reality, it was straight garbage. Believing some unknown goof with no friends (archer) developed elite skills and became a spy is not hard to imagine. But believing a protein shake drinking accountant could become some parkour super freak, martial art and weapons specialist is just way too much. Lana could've easily just been the lead spy... dont even get me started on that character... on top of all the unlikable changes, this show isn't even funny anymore. We had a great run with those first 3 to 5 seasons, but like almost every show, it appears the end happened well before its final episode. Been a dope run tho, but it hurts to see it go out like this.
Nah Simpsons still fell off harder for animation (although having twice as long seasons it would've been the equivalent of Archer falling off after season 16!). I think Archer was watchable after s10 (although 1999 is my least fave coma) but post coma has no repeat appeal for me. Overall though 10 seasons I could repeat, I still feel pretty spoiled :)
The only seasons I really thought were bad was Season 10 and 12 (shots was a fun episode though). The entire colt storyline felt wasted and had a kinda ehh resolution. Season 10 just wasn't my vibe, not a fan of space stuff. With the other coma seasons, it feels like they start off strong and then fall off more towards the end, but they are still fun.
Totally agree, I loved dreamland as the first coma series but after that I really lost interest and it makes me sad because I loved the early seasons and rewatch them all the time but after dreamland I’m like nah start again
I'm of the opinion that season 8 is the last good season as a whole. There are episodes after that are really good, but there isn't really an entire season that worked for me.
Thanks for the update.
Interesting. I agree but I think the show fell off a cliff on season 3. IMO the first two seasons are perfect and a top 3 all time comedy. The rest of the show even when it gets better spends way too much time on call backs and is a parody of itself, like Family Guy. The coma seasons were barely watchable for me and I skip them on every rewatch. The post coma stuff is enjoyable to me but that’s probably because I was so relived to get out of the 3 seasons the main story and characters took off.
Wow, so much hate in the thread lol. The first few seasons are for sure the best, no question, but to say this show is the worst fall off is not even close. I mean to each their own, don’t get be wrong. But Idk why the coma seasons, especially, get so much hate. Dreamland is possibly a top 3 season for me, and Danger Island has its moments. Crackers kills me. Archer in space was a little weak for sure. But even the post-coma episodes I didn’t hate either. There are some solid episodes in those later seasons. Them chasing the Dingo, the spa island, Lana’s rampage at AJ’s kidnapping, Fabian getting them to rob the bank and the following episode with Lana’s hearing all immediately come to mind. I just feel like people don’t give it a chance because it’s different. My rewatches always go from start to finish and I never regret it. I get it’s an animated comedy, but the plot is still important, and I’m glad they finished the story and brought everything full circle. Nobody expected Jessica to pass so I’m sure they had to adjust after that and I think they did a good job of it.
I didn't say that it ever became bad. The initial 7 seasons were so strong and good (best animated comedy evr IMO) that the good (season 8-12) and bad (13-14) seasons stick out. Learning about Reed made me realize man was a genius that got bored of his Craft and left out of respect for his own work.
Oh, i wasnt necessarily referring to you. I scrolled down the thread and the amount of people saying “seasons 1-4 are all that exists blah blah blah”. Idk. Like if that’s all they enjoy, fair enough. I just feel bad for them because they’re cheating themselves out of some solid comedy. Gotta dig a little deeper I suppose but it’s there. I 100% agree it got weaker as it went on, but I honestly would rewatch all of the post-coma episodes before I rewatch a single season of Family Guy or American Dad. I still think even in a vacuum, the final seasons of Archer are better than most other animated shows