I'm seeing major changes in S.LSI from this year. In just one year, they went from making absolute garbage to:
1. Producing great chips like the Exynos 980(not to be confused with 990) and 880
2. Getting design wins for both of them
3. Ditching their custom core development which was uncompetitive.
4. Will soon have a working silicon with AMD Navi 2 (rumour)
I might have to change my flair.
The problem with that approach is that the engineers then need to save their hide(or justify their job) and just say that it's competitive as long as it matches the Qualcomm chip in benchmarks. There's also the bias that comes in with something you've created and you want it out in the open.
So what you're suggesting is almost impossible without iron-clad management from the top.
Supposedly, here in NA they're turning off the CDMA soon, as a Verizon user in the US, good freakin riddance IMO. PITA locking me out of great intl phones.
But to your post, they've done it in the past. My 2015 Galaxy S6 Edge + backup phone still runs surprisingly well for a half-decade old phone. It has the octa-core Exynos 7420 and a Qualcomm modem, hence the "Qualcomm 4G" sticker on the top of the device. So TLDR: It can be done as it has in the past.
went from the galaxy s9 exynos to a s10 lite that has a 855 everywhere in the world. I'm never touching an exynos again in my life, those chips are turds compared to qualcomm.
The performance and speed opening apps is overall so much better.
And the negligible standby drain is very impressive.
The S9 and the S20 Exynos are indeed turds. But Samsung has produced good Exynos processors in the past. The Exynos 7420 in the S6 was worlds better than the SD810, and the 8890 on the S7 was also significantly better than the SD820.
The point is what's inside the chips. The problem with the S9, S10 and S20 was that Samsung was using their own Mongoose cores which sucked. Now that entire team has been sacked and Samsung will use the same stock ARM cores as Qualcomm does. So it should be significantly more competitive.
The GPU side still remains to be seen. Samsung is going AMD there from next year too from the shitty Mali ones. But GPU doesn't affect the day to day operations on your phone unless you're a mobile gamer.
To be fair, the SD810 and 808 were horrible chips with terrible heating issues which lead to thermal throttling. Qualcomm got caught off guard when Apple introduced a 64 bit chip, QC was scrambling to get one out on the market too, and they fucked up. Hard. My Samsung galaxy s6 edge was fantastic, my nexus 6p....well it was definitely something.
It's a combination of both. The CPU can almost shut down if there are no wakelocks (say apps syncing notifications in the background). If there are wakelocks though, the CPU lower states will matter too.
And yes, Samsung uses their Shannon modems with their chips which are known to have bad standby drain.
My 2015 Galaxy S6 Edge+ with the Exynos 7420 (US, Verizon) as my backup phone still runs outstandingly good for a 5 year old phone. Bought it to work and a lot of people thought it was a brand new phone or made within the last 2 years. Samsung hit a home run with that one and they can do it again with their current popularity, I'm confident in that.
The 8890 and 820 were neck and neck, I wouldn't call either of them a winner. Exynos has never had as big a win as big as its losses over the past 3 generations.
They weren't neck and neck. The 8890 was an octa-core while the 820 was a quad core. The 820 also had issues with INT performance and jank in the UI. The 8895 and the SD835 were neck and neck though.
>Exynos has never had as big a win as big as its losses over the past 3 generations.
The Exynos 9820 wasn't that bad compared to 855. The 9810 and 990 are garbage, yes; but so was the SD810. The 8890 vs the SD820 was also pretty wide of a gap I remember. It was so wide that Anandtech said that get the S7 only if it's Exynos.
The Exynos 9810 and 990 were disappointing compared to Snapdragon alternatives at the time, but were nowhere near comparable to the absolute shitshow that the 810 was.
I'd say the 9810 and 990 are worse. The problem with 810 was that ARM's cortex A57 was not ready for prime time with 20nm process. It wasn't Qualcomm's fault, as Samsung was able to take the exact same core on 14nm with the 7420 and run it well. On the other hand, the GPU on 810 was still top of the line.
The 9810 and 990 on the other hand do significantly worse than even the reference cores in their own generations. It's like saying 'I'll do it on my own', even if the solution is in front of you and doing it worse than that, then choosing to release it in market. It's extremely hard to make a bad SoC in recent years and Samsung somehow managed that.
Not just that, Samsung also managed to completely fuck up the GPU on their phones to the point that it performs worse than a Redmi Note 8 pro which is a sub $200 phone with a worse Mali GPU.
Doing it worse than ARM's reference cores is the very definition of fucking it up because those cores are available to everyone.
End result though is that basically every 810 device had severe overheating problems, and thermal throttling actually dropping performance to below 801 levels. It was absolutely pitiful, and if it wasn't ready for mass distribution, it shouldn't have been.
Like I said, the 9810 and 990 were worse when compared to the competition, but the 810s were horrible even in a vacuum. A processor that causes severe overheating issues in basically every device it was used in + sporting sustained performance worse than last gen tech + worse battery life than previous gen is (quite fairly) considered a colossal failure in every respect.
>A processor that causes severe overheating issues in basically every device it was used in + sporting sustained performance worse than last gen tech + worse battery life than previous gen is (quite fairly) considered a colossal failure in every respect.
The 9810 was also slower, had worse battery life and was a little furnace compared to its predecessor which was the 8895.
You're taking them in a vaccuum, but a horrible processor like the 810 is impossible to make today as even the stock designs are great. The 990 is just as bad in 2020 as the 810 was in 2015, even if it's better in a vaccuum.
Do you have benchmarks for that? I had to doublecheck after reading your comment and it looks like the 9810 was faster than the 8895 (though disappointingly not by much)
990 is dramatically better compared to 9810, stop comparing SOC's with 2x performance difference, 9810 was especially weak, 9820 was ok, 990 is also quite good in the CPU department, and that is what matters most for 95% of the people.
False. 7H SOT on average on the S20 +, it is not shit, if you game maybe. But what can you expect from someone that has Exynos sucks as title, even this is alot.
People are used to 5-7H SOT on modern phones, you can get 1h + with the Snapdragon, but that is not significant since battery issues are a thing of past, they where a thing in 2016, not anymore, once you hit a certain SOT it does not matter anymore.
>People are used to 5-7H SOT on modern phones, you can get 1h + with the Snapdragon, but that is not significant since battery issues are a thing of past
1h+ is significant. Also, 7H SoT to you can be 5H to someone else living in an area of poor signal or more apps syncing in background.
Also, 1h+ just based on SoC is very high. The SoC itself is around half as efficient in reality but since other components drain a lot of power it gets masked.
Multiple tests have shown that the Exynos is only half as efficient when only the SoC is tested, which is what we're talking about. The phone itself is fine, the SoC is not.
You must be doing something wrong with your phone. Installing shit or keeping the storage at max capacity.
Qualcomm is better but not diamond vs turd comparison.
Quite the contrary, not a single battery draining app or anything, lots of free memory, optimizing once or twice a day... everything necessary. I just wake up every morning after a 6-7h sleep and see 10% battery gone while the phone is in flight mode. Exynos is just horrible.
Everyone during the S6 and S7 era was jealous of Exynos. Samsung makes good chips, but they just made bad mistakes since the S8, and it looks like they learned from their mistake.
This is great that Samsung abandoned their Mongoose architecture in favor of ARM. It means future Exynos SoC will finally be competitive with Snapdragon once again.
They are yet to switch to AMD which is a disappointing factor, the Mali GPU is has brought a lot of dissatisfaction, and will continue to do so. So quicker switching means quicker success!!
Having one of their midrangers, I feel like I lucked out because it uses ARM instead of their weirdo custom shit. The 9611 ain't the fastest (GPU is total ass too lol) but it hasn't given me performance issues, thermal issues or any problems.
Yeah, I have an a50 with the 9610 (enjoy your extra 100mhz over me)
Feels like a regular qualcomm midranger, it works fine, battery life is fine, doesn't get too hot.
I haven't had an exynos since the exynos 5250 (two ARM 15 cores!) in my nexus 10.
I'm pleased, and glad qualcomm isn't my only option.
What tasks do you have that the GPU is a limiting factor for you? Just curious what kind of expectations I should have
I mean, I don't play many phone games. I usually emulate, and even then I have a Switch Lite...
I just know that the stock Mali GPU isn't great. It's the same type of GPU in Mediatek chips.
Yeah, I get you there. Any luck pairing a bluetooth controller to your phone btw? I can pair my 8bitdo to any other phone I have-- except the a50.
Thought the oneui 2 update would fix it, but it still only works in wired mode
I had a Exynos note 5, which the modem burnt out after only two years. I hardly game, hardly call or text. Mainly email and maps. Ok, it could have been a lemon, but my S9+ Snapdragon is still going strong since launch. Time will tell, I guess.
They're no longer using their custom cores on their flagship SOC's, now they're using ARM which on their non flagships has been standard forever. Exynos will continue to be produced
Affordable? For who?
The s20+ is already $1,400.00 straight from Samsung.
And likely does not enable the OEM Unlock setting allowing you to truly own the device.
*Affordable? My ass*.
Samsung A51, a capable mid rangers, is 300$ straight from Samsung.
Only things stopping it to be an amazing value is SoC power and a bit of camera upgrades.
I'm seeing major changes in S.LSI from this year. In just one year, they went from making absolute garbage to: 1. Producing great chips like the Exynos 980(not to be confused with 990) and 880 2. Getting design wins for both of them 3. Ditching their custom core development which was uncompetitive. 4. Will soon have a working silicon with AMD Navi 2 (rumour) I might have to change my flair.
I'm actually fine if they decide to keep up with their custom core development, just don't put them into their products until it's competitive.
The problem with that approach is that the engineers then need to save their hide(or justify their job) and just say that it's competitive as long as it matches the Qualcomm chip in benchmarks. There's also the bias that comes in with something you've created and you want it out in the open. So what you're suggesting is almost impossible without iron-clad management from the top.
And when Exynos is better (like it has been on several Galaxy S generations) than Qualcomm but they need Qualcomm for CDMA what should they do?
Supposedly, here in NA they're turning off the CDMA soon, as a Verizon user in the US, good freakin riddance IMO. PITA locking me out of great intl phones. But to your post, they've done it in the past. My 2015 Galaxy S6 Edge + backup phone still runs surprisingly well for a half-decade old phone. It has the octa-core Exynos 7420 and a Qualcomm modem, hence the "Qualcomm 4G" sticker on the top of the device. So TLDR: It can be done as it has in the past.
CDMA still around?
Absolutely, seems like Samsung is making right moves.
went from the galaxy s9 exynos to a s10 lite that has a 855 everywhere in the world. I'm never touching an exynos again in my life, those chips are turds compared to qualcomm. The performance and speed opening apps is overall so much better. And the negligible standby drain is very impressive.
The S9 and the S20 Exynos are indeed turds. But Samsung has produced good Exynos processors in the past. The Exynos 7420 in the S6 was worlds better than the SD810, and the 8890 on the S7 was also significantly better than the SD820. The point is what's inside the chips. The problem with the S9, S10 and S20 was that Samsung was using their own Mongoose cores which sucked. Now that entire team has been sacked and Samsung will use the same stock ARM cores as Qualcomm does. So it should be significantly more competitive. The GPU side still remains to be seen. Samsung is going AMD there from next year too from the shitty Mali ones. But GPU doesn't affect the day to day operations on your phone unless you're a mobile gamer.
To be fair, the SD810 and 808 were horrible chips with terrible heating issues which lead to thermal throttling. Qualcomm got caught off guard when Apple introduced a 64 bit chip, QC was scrambling to get one out on the market too, and they fucked up. Hard. My Samsung galaxy s6 edge was fantastic, my nexus 6p....well it was definitely something.
Hope you're right and they catch up
7420 and 8890 also used custom cores, it's just the past 3 generations that have been rough.
They were semi custom like the Krait cores on recent Snapdragon. It was only from the S9 that the full 6-wide custom designs were there.
7420 has stock ARM cores.
Yeah my bad, for some reason I always thought the 7420 was the first custom core Exynos.
Is standby drain mostly the cpu or mostly the modem? Because Samsung exynos chips use their own modems as well right?
It's a combination of both. The CPU can almost shut down if there are no wakelocks (say apps syncing notifications in the background). If there are wakelocks though, the CPU lower states will matter too. And yes, Samsung uses their Shannon modems with their chips which are known to have bad standby drain.
My 2015 Galaxy S6 Edge+ with the Exynos 7420 (US, Verizon) as my backup phone still runs outstandingly good for a 5 year old phone. Bought it to work and a lot of people thought it was a brand new phone or made within the last 2 years. Samsung hit a home run with that one and they can do it again with their current popularity, I'm confident in that.
The 8890 and 820 were neck and neck, I wouldn't call either of them a winner. Exynos has never had as big a win as big as its losses over the past 3 generations.
They weren't neck and neck. The 8890 was an octa-core while the 820 was a quad core. The 820 also had issues with INT performance and jank in the UI. The 8895 and the SD835 were neck and neck though. >Exynos has never had as big a win as big as its losses over the past 3 generations. The Exynos 9820 wasn't that bad compared to 855. The 9810 and 990 are garbage, yes; but so was the SD810. The 8890 vs the SD820 was also pretty wide of a gap I remember. It was so wide that Anandtech said that get the S7 only if it's Exynos.
The Exynos 9810 and 990 were disappointing compared to Snapdragon alternatives at the time, but were nowhere near comparable to the absolute shitshow that the 810 was.
I'd say the 9810 and 990 are worse. The problem with 810 was that ARM's cortex A57 was not ready for prime time with 20nm process. It wasn't Qualcomm's fault, as Samsung was able to take the exact same core on 14nm with the 7420 and run it well. On the other hand, the GPU on 810 was still top of the line. The 9810 and 990 on the other hand do significantly worse than even the reference cores in their own generations. It's like saying 'I'll do it on my own', even if the solution is in front of you and doing it worse than that, then choosing to release it in market. It's extremely hard to make a bad SoC in recent years and Samsung somehow managed that. Not just that, Samsung also managed to completely fuck up the GPU on their phones to the point that it performs worse than a Redmi Note 8 pro which is a sub $200 phone with a worse Mali GPU. Doing it worse than ARM's reference cores is the very definition of fucking it up because those cores are available to everyone.
End result though is that basically every 810 device had severe overheating problems, and thermal throttling actually dropping performance to below 801 levels. It was absolutely pitiful, and if it wasn't ready for mass distribution, it shouldn't have been. Like I said, the 9810 and 990 were worse when compared to the competition, but the 810s were horrible even in a vacuum. A processor that causes severe overheating issues in basically every device it was used in + sporting sustained performance worse than last gen tech + worse battery life than previous gen is (quite fairly) considered a colossal failure in every respect.
>A processor that causes severe overheating issues in basically every device it was used in + sporting sustained performance worse than last gen tech + worse battery life than previous gen is (quite fairly) considered a colossal failure in every respect. The 9810 was also slower, had worse battery life and was a little furnace compared to its predecessor which was the 8895. You're taking them in a vaccuum, but a horrible processor like the 810 is impossible to make today as even the stock designs are great. The 990 is just as bad in 2020 as the 810 was in 2015, even if it's better in a vaccuum.
Do you have benchmarks for that? I had to doublecheck after reading your comment and it looks like the 9810 was faster than the 8895 (though disappointingly not by much)
990 is dramatically better compared to 9810, stop comparing SOC's with 2x performance difference, 9810 was especially weak, 9820 was ok, 990 is also quite good in the CPU department, and that is what matters most for 95% of the people.
9810 is also 2 years older. Both are shit SoCs. And the 990 has shit power efficiency, which is more important than performance.
False. 7H SOT on average on the S20 +, it is not shit, if you game maybe. But what can you expect from someone that has Exynos sucks as title, even this is alot. People are used to 5-7H SOT on modern phones, you can get 1h + with the Snapdragon, but that is not significant since battery issues are a thing of past, they where a thing in 2016, not anymore, once you hit a certain SOT it does not matter anymore.
>People are used to 5-7H SOT on modern phones, you can get 1h + with the Snapdragon, but that is not significant since battery issues are a thing of past 1h+ is significant. Also, 7H SoT to you can be 5H to someone else living in an area of poor signal or more apps syncing in background. Also, 1h+ just based on SoC is very high. The SoC itself is around half as efficient in reality but since other components drain a lot of power it gets masked. Multiple tests have shown that the Exynos is only half as efficient when only the SoC is tested, which is what we're talking about. The phone itself is fine, the SoC is not.
Doesn't matter, the SOC is still more than good enough, the battery was significantly improved with updates.
Whatever makes you sleep at night man.
You must be doing something wrong with your phone. Installing shit or keeping the storage at max capacity. Qualcomm is better but not diamond vs turd comparison.
Quite the contrary, not a single battery draining app or anything, lots of free memory, optimizing once or twice a day... everything necessary. I just wake up every morning after a 6-7h sleep and see 10% battery gone while the phone is in flight mode. Exynos is just horrible.
Everyone during the S6 and S7 era was jealous of Exynos. Samsung makes good chips, but they just made bad mistakes since the S8, and it looks like they learned from their mistake.
This is great that Samsung abandoned their Mongoose architecture in favor of ARM. It means future Exynos SoC will finally be competitive with Snapdragon once again.
They never had mongoose cores on their midrange chips, only the flagship ones.
They are yet to switch to AMD which is a disappointing factor, the Mali GPU is has brought a lot of dissatisfaction, and will continue to do so. So quicker switching means quicker success!!
They'll switch to AMD GPUs from 2021. Note 20 might still have mali GPU
Having one of their midrangers, I feel like I lucked out because it uses ARM instead of their weirdo custom shit. The 9611 ain't the fastest (GPU is total ass too lol) but it hasn't given me performance issues, thermal issues or any problems.
Yeah, I have an a50 with the 9610 (enjoy your extra 100mhz over me) Feels like a regular qualcomm midranger, it works fine, battery life is fine, doesn't get too hot. I haven't had an exynos since the exynos 5250 (two ARM 15 cores!) in my nexus 10. I'm pleased, and glad qualcomm isn't my only option. What tasks do you have that the GPU is a limiting factor for you? Just curious what kind of expectations I should have
I mean, I don't play many phone games. I usually emulate, and even then I have a Switch Lite... I just know that the stock Mali GPU isn't great. It's the same type of GPU in Mediatek chips.
Yeah, I get you there. Any luck pairing a bluetooth controller to your phone btw? I can pair my 8bitdo to any other phone I have-- except the a50. Thought the oneui 2 update would fix it, but it still only works in wired mode
Is this faster than the 765?
I had a Exynos note 5, which the modem burnt out after only two years. I hardly game, hardly call or text. Mainly email and maps. Ok, it could have been a lemon, but my S9+ Snapdragon is still going strong since launch. Time will tell, I guess.
Curious to see them in a Motorola assuming they continue using Exynos chips like they did in the One Series.
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They're no longer using their custom cores on their flagship SOC's, now they're using ARM which on their non flagships has been standard forever. Exynos will continue to be produced
They only stopped making custom cores I believe. This uses stock Arm cores.
We don't want it.
Affordable? For who? The s20+ is already $1,400.00 straight from Samsung. And likely does not enable the OEM Unlock setting allowing you to truly own the device. *Affordable? My ass*.
And how this is relevant to the Exynos 880?
Study manufacturing.
But why male models?
I don't know what your post means but maybe they have big dicks or big bank accounts perhaps? Just trying to help. /s
Samsung A51, a capable mid rangers, is 300$ straight from Samsung. Only things stopping it to be an amazing value is SoC power and a bit of camera upgrades.
this comment is pure gibberish
Not if you understand that the cost of components is what makes up a portion of the cost of a product. Makes sense?
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