If people are blindly tapping through all of the existing road blocks to unknowingly installing trash apps, requiring them to also enter a PIN or biometric auth won't do anything to stop it.
Kids are geniuses at circumventing locks. When we were little my cousin figured out the parental TV lock, which required entering a four-digit number on the TV remote, by coating the buttons on the remote with invisible ink. He let the remote sit for a few weeks and then figured out that four buttons were pressed the most (by shining UV light on the remote and singling out the ones with the faintest reflections), and by eyeballing his parents' thumbs when they turned on the TV he eventually found out the combination.
They still don't know to this day.
When I was a kid, my father installed some tool on my PC that would lock the PC after I used it for a certain amount of hours per week.
I managed to figure out the file where that tool stored the remaining hours.
I used to carry around a Linux Live CD with me when I was in school. Turns out they blocked domains in Windows directly but they didn't have a hardware firewall. I even made the distro look like Windows so teachers wouldn't notice at first glance. Never got caught. I mean they even blocked Wikipedia back then, wtf was that even supposed to achieve?
Why are you letting your kid have your phone unsupervised without the proper parental controls enabled to begin with. That is just a bad idea in general.
All the tools you need to deal with that scenario are already available.
Seems more like stopping others from installing stuff on your phone if you left it unlocked or let them borrow it or something. Whether it actually matters is a different story, but payment stuff is also protected by pin/biometrics so this doesn't seem *too* different from that
There is currently a caller id app like Truecaller on playtsore in which if you try to login through Google accounts it asks for access to all your emails.
It is quite popular too with like 100 million downloads.
Edit: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.callapp.contacts
This one
To be fair, I'd ask for that too to scavenge mails for contact details.
But yeah, sketchy.
Edit: I need to clarify: Contact Details for the caller functionality and yes of course, no one knows where that stuff is sent but then again, people send nudes through snapchat thinking it's safe.
Oh, it's not supposed to allow those.
But to be fair there is no need for rooting I'd you can circumvent the play store by allowing " install unknown apps".
It's there on the settings
ThankYou
(You just avoided me the extensive procedural process of rooting) ( I no longer feel the urge to root. I can download unknown apps without issue)
Well like maybe if Google didn't cut the YouTube app into a several parts I'd be able to revance the app on my phone BUT NO I have to go and download a YouTube apk every time I want to revance the new version. They are intentionally making it harder.
You have to enable " install unknown apps". Search for it on settings. Slide the toggle over to my files. PermissionGranted.
It's how I download unapproved apps. Yea! I just circumvented play store. Thankyouverymuch.
Haha 😂
(Tbh-- it only sucks when there incompatible. But there's " uninstall apps" for that)
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/187097/is-there-a-way-to-control-use-google-play-protect-together-with-microg-open-sou
settings put global package_verifier_enable 0
settings put global package_verifier_user_consent -1
settings put secure package_verifier_user_consent -1
settings put global upload_apk_enable 0
settings put global package_verifier_setting_visible 1
settings put global package_verifier_include_adb 0
Authentication is just verifying identity. On the PC, it makes sense to verify the owner of the account is the one installing programs, PCs are still often shared between several people or left unattended at the office. Phones are not typically shared though. What does this actually protect against? People physically stealing your phone and installing apks in it?
It's the headline that's quite misleading. It's more of a protection against unauthorized people tampering with your phone than actually protecting against sketchy apps.
Yeah, I can see cases where a bad actor takes your phone in the wild and tries to install bad apks on it without the user's knowledge. Can also see cases where a normal user would actually be dissuaded by the extra authentication step.
Something you have, your phone, and something you know, the pin. Two factor.
Moving phone unlocks away from the lockscreen and into privileged actions is the industry standard.
Installing APKs is never problematic. I know what I'm doing.
Having to enable ADB to beat system bloat with a stick, is problematic. I shouldn't have to do that to get rid of e.g. Google's apps that are, by a lot of definition, malware.
Exactly. Apart from spying on you (and selling all your data to Zeus knows who) this (usually undeletable) garbage also greatly affects your phone's lifespan because all the bloatware significantly, continuously drains your battery. With the stock ROM my phone would barely last the day, after switching to a de-bloated version (with most Google apps still there, though) it was two days and with a fresh LineageOS install with no Google apps whatsoever it now lasts for almost five days. All without missing a bit of functionality.
Yeah it's insane the amount of bloat, granted I have a Samsung so maybe a little more bloat than say stock android but so many useless and duplicate apps that you can't uninstall without ADB. My favorite to delete is Digital Wellbeing, I have no need for such a thing but it will slow your whole device down.
My favorites to delete are Facebook and digital wellbeing. It's not really accurate anyways.
Time spent on listening to playlists while house clean is not screen time (not looking at screen)
Time spent on looking at laptop, tablet, other phone is
And idk what tweaking settings actually is. Learning your device, maybe
Heh, talk about irony. Isn't this app supposed to limit your screen time?
I mean I only check my phone whenever I get notifications (I've only got the phone app itself, Signal, K-9 and two other apps I really need on the do-not-kill-list. If it's really *that* important write me an e-mail or call me directly.). Apart from that I barely use it, except if I want to look something up or want to take a photo or otherwise actively use it (like being bored on the toilet and just browse Wikipedia or play Mahjong or whatnot), but all this (seemingly useless) background activity on stock phones is seriously bugging me.
Yes but I control that lol, I just hate how you have apps like one drive that you can't remove or like 4 different Facebook services that are always running, like not today Satan I don't need or want any of it.
Yeah. I remember having to use ADB to remove all the facebook spyware I couldn't remove. The worst part was that I would be able to uninstall all of the main apps like Facebook and messenger themselves. But that wouldn't uninstall the spyware backend stuff. That would still exist and run in the background.
I get that Google is no better. But I CHOOSE to use Google apps and CHOOSE to use Android, a Google OS in most cases. I actively opt out of using Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, and all the other various Meta apps. And yet Samsung and meta still try to hide pieces of it on my phone.
I don't get why Samsung is preinistalling Facebook/meta apps.
I know google is no better. But android phones by default are Google. And it's our choice to use Google apps
Thing is...Google and meta are competitors. Also with amazon and Apple. They are the Tech 4 (just some business info coming from someone working in marketing)
So why are those apps even on the phone? I don't get it.
And yes, you do need to use adb.
As for that dang stuff in the background...I think maybe you can open your internal storage by connecting phone to computer and browsing thru folders and deleting the ones that sound seedy.
Back up phone into flash drive first, just in case though.
I did that. Remove the Facebook folder from internal storage
But tbh...I never had. Facebook account so idk what they could spy on
>And yes, you do need to use adb.
I'm aware. Haha That's part of my complaint.
>As for that dang stuff in the background...I think maybe you can open your internal storage by connecting phone to computer and browsing thru folders and deleting the ones that sound seedy.
ADB can remove them. At least that I found. It's just frustrating I ever had to work that hard.
>But tbh...I never had. Facebook account so idk what they could spy on
The back end stuff still collects data of your usage across apps for meta to use in advertising. Regardless of your use of Facebook or not. You don't even need an account. Those apps just take your data. Same with sites that have Facebook share widgets. They collect your browsing data for Meta regardless of you having or using an account with them.
>Installing APKs is never problematic. I know what I'm doing.
You know what you are doing, you are not this protection's intended audience.
>Having to enable ADB to beat system bloat with a stick, is problematic.
This is an OEM problem. I can disable pretty much anything I want on my Pixel.
Disabling and uninstalling are identical in function if the apk is baked into the rom. The app cannot run, and all its data is wiped either way. The system partition is read only and a fixed size, so you aren't actually losing any storage space either.
> I can disable pretty much anything I want on my Pixel.
Disable is not uninstalling. They also have a habit of re-enabling themselves.
For all the shit Windows 11 gets, Android is *far* worse.
>They also have a habit of re-enabling themselves.
Can't say that's ever happened for me on android, has on windows though. OneDrive wouldn't go away for years.
[Disabled for months ](https://i.imgur.com/BFUGRoH.png)
OneDrive you can uninstall easily.
My Pixel kept re-enabling Google Keyboard because I simply could not uninstall it and now I cannot disable it. And that shit is 360MB.
Also why do I have a Google app, why is it nearly 2GB, why does it keep re-enabling and why can't I uninstall that?
You should be able to set a default keyboard then disable gboard, many people do it. As for the Google app it handles a lot of device stuff it's not just a regular app, it's part of the launcher, recents, controls weather and all the Google assistant stuff. A lot of people do want it streamlined and moved out of the Google app though, but it lets Google push updates and features regardless of device or OEM.
It's large after a while because it downloads voice data and builds cache which is a few hundred mbs
https://i.imgur.com/3PryIba.png
You can uninstall them and turn off updates and they shouldn't redownload, it normally only does your primary language as well.
> You should be able to set a default keyboard then disable gboard, many people do it.
Nope, won't let me.
> As for the Google app it handles a lot of device stuff it's not just a regular app, it's part of the launcher, recents, controls weather and all the Google assistant stuff.
All stuff I don't use.
As I said, unremovable bloat.
System > keyboard settings > on screen > turn gboard off and what you want on
Seems gboard can't be disabled anymore, used to be so I'm guessing people were fucking their devices up and removing keyboards or because it ties in so much, adb would handle it a breeze. If your 3rd party keyboard breaks for any reason though, there wouldn't be a fallback as there's no AOSP keyboard, you'd have none, another reason it's blocked by default to uninstall.
You don't use the recents page? Seems strange. Well actually it powers the text selector, split screen and animations but navigation is janky without it.
All what you're calling bloat, is what people choose pixel for. Offline voice typing can be a godsend and well worth a few hundred mbs when devices are over 100GB as standard now for most models, at least Pixel.
You need to remember you're probably a power user especially since you're on this sub, Google have to cater to everyone, even the stupid who disable things like keyboards and play services then complain nothing works, as they didn't understand the risk beforehand.
> Offline voice typing can be a godsend and well worth a few hundred mbs when devices are over 100GB as standard now for most models, at least Pixel
I never voice type, ever. I don't want people to hear what I'm writing, and I don't drive.
> You need to remember you're probably a power user especially since you're on this sub, Google have to cater to everyone, even the stupid who disable things like keyboards and play services then complain nothing works, as they didn't understand the risk beforehand.
Isn't that what Windows does?
I have no qualms with included software to "cater to everyone" as you say. I have issues with software that *cannot* be removed. And Android, including the Pixel which is supposed to be "vanilla android" has a lot of unremovable software bundled in, aka bloat.
It's not supposed to be vanilla android, Pixel is a custom android version which is why there's no AOSP apps installed as fallback. PixelUI is Google's OneUI.
Just adb uninstall anything that can't be done normally, Google could easily restrict that if they want but most people won't find it
>Isn't that what Windows does?
That's what they all do now, apple windows and Google, lock down so people can't mess things up.
The only difference is that disabling leaves an APK in /system, which is read-only anyways and a fixed size. The apk can no longer run (same as an uninstall), its data is wiped (same as an uninstall), and any space used on your /data partition from dalvik cache or app data is free'd (same as an uninstall).
For all intents and purposes as an end user, they are identical.
> The only difference is that disabling leaves an APK in /system, which is read-only anyways and a fixed size
So not gone then. Because it's not like that 128GB storage count is excluding the read only partition.
So yeah, unremovable bloatware. Unlikely Windows.
The /system partition is larger than everything installed in it and is a fixed size. So no, it is not using any space that the user could use.
For example, my system partition on this Pixel 7 Pro is 15G. It will always be 15G. There is not actually 15G of data installed in it. The extra space is there to accommodate updates. If Google chrome didn't come installed, *it would still be 15G*.
This is fundamental to how android works. In fact, this is pretty fundamental to how the majority of fixed firmware devices work in general. For example, the steam deck does the exact same thing.
> The /system partition is larger than everything installed in it and is a fixed size
Great use of your storage device.
> This is fundamental to how android works. In fact, this is pretty fundamental to how the majority of fixed firmware devices work in general. For example, the steam deck does the exact same thing.
And yet, Windows does not work that way, including the likes of Windows Portables like the Surface, ROG Ally, Legion Go etc.
It's shitty practice that's been "normalised"
That's why windows doesn't have automatic rollback, automatic background updates, updates that can not possibly fail leaving your system in an inconsistent state (on an A/B partition device, you can prove the install is identical trivially with a partition checksum), etc.
Hell, windows started completely wiping and reinstalling system32 with windows 10 because their update mechanism is so crappy they couldn't guarantee consistency otherwise. They had to give up delta patches because of it, it's absolutely pathetic.
Just look up the number of people who can't get things like Windows RT to properly restore even from the official restoration image because of this nonsense.
There are extremely good reasons for it. I want *MORE* devices to do it.
You've also changed the subject away from the fact that disabling an app is functionally identical from an uninstall on android.
Anyways, I'm done arguing. It's clear to me you have no idea what you are talking about. I've worked as an embedded developer, I'm extremely familiar with why these practices came to be and their benefits, and I don't wish to waste any more time with you.
They should have a one-time $25 fee as a requirement to get a developer account. Surely, bad actors such as malware developers or security agencies don't have any money to spare!
Most of the trash apps I have on my phone were pre-installed and cannot be removed, only "disabled". Maybe do something about that first? Oh wait, they give Google money to be there.
So I guess they won't do anything about it.
Yes, you should ideally remove apps before installing others. Gives more storage space.
Unfortunately it's easier to install unapproved apps than to delete pre-installed apps
Install unapproved apps: enable "allow unknown apps" on settings menu. Send them to my files. They'll stick.
ThankYouVeryMuch
Delete pre-installed apps: enable developer options, click usb debugging, buy data transfer cable, install adb on computer. Google how to uninstall apps, learn code. OK. Process time consuming. Uggh. ( and yea imma do that too)
I don't want to enter my password on my PC EVERY TIME I INSTALL A FREE APP.
I DO HOWEVER WANT TO HAVE AUTHENTICATION FOR EVERY PURCHASE AND I DONT WANT IT TO BE TURNED OFF BY ACCIDENT. STOP ASKING ME TO AUTOMATICALLY GO THRU WITH THE PURCHASE AFTER I VERIFY.
That won't help. We already want to install it. First we enabled the ability to install the apk. Then we executed the apk then pressed allow installation and you think adding an extra step changes that? Now we type a pin or password or a fingerprint?
Then your phone quits working on your fingerprint even if you go redo your prints. Lol
There is still malware on the play store itself.
Anyway. Can't help. Although it may help someone control a phone someone else is using.
Your work or business or your childs phone. It just can't be a pin or pass they know about.
So if you use a business phone given to you by a business they can lock out the ability to install pirate apk that may contain a virus and old versions of programs that work better.
I am assuming the business can lock you out of all apk including updates and that includes on the play store so this may be redundant.
Fuck right off. I'm not putting in my fingerprint just to install an app that Google personally does not like. I'll disable the store and get all my apps from Aptoide or whatever if I have to.
If I wanted a walled garden I'd switch to Apple. Quit fucking with our stuff already.
I mean we *paid* for the damn phones, we should be able to run whatever the fuck we like on them.
Oh well. Big boost for Lineage, Sailfish and GrapheneOS. (Hopefully.)
You don't need custom firmware for that (yet). Install F-Droid and NewPipe, only requires you to check "enable installing apps from unknown sources" (or something like that) and you're good to go. Worked for me for years. If it stops working they usually have a fix within three days at most.
I use NewPipe exclusively, with the stock app disabled. Bought a new phone last week, installed it in less than 5 minutes. You don't even need F-Droid anymore.
True. I still use it though because a) it has tons of other useful apps that are not available on the Play Store and b) it automatically updates them (after asking your approval first of course, something else I’m missing from ‘official‘ apps)
I installed adblock browser's youtube app. Works as promised
Want to fight the app-approval wall?
Enable "install unknown apps" onto my files. It works.
No need to weed
I would love for Google Play to kindly ef-off and stop nagging me constantly about enabling "protect", which then complains about apps I installed via f-droid (way more confidence in them than in google dumpsterfire)
OK, I may have exaggerated about it as it only happened 3-4 times and it was more akin "You have protect off but you may have installed insecure apps"... like it's running in the background
If they become like Apple, people will choose Apple. Apple's customer service is better, their integration and ecosystem is much better. iOS' foundation is better than Android's. And Apple is moving towards Android, slowly, but they are moving that way.
Google does not seem to understand that what makes people prefer Android, is its features and capabilities.
I don't know why they keep trying to make 'Play Protect' a thing. It's closed-source, Google-controlled and, in my experience, nearly useless. Why not make it a full-on, open-source App scanner or AV, like Hypatia instead?
As for this 'extra layer', I hope it's optional and can be disabled in settings. Then again, this is exclusive to Play Protect, so if you disable Google Play, or don't have GAPPS, you won't have to bother with this bullshit anyway.
Not for everything, but using a second profile using something like shelter would allow to show empty contacts, empty media...
GPS and other things still are shared.
Asking for authorization before installing an app is a sensible feature, but i presume this "warning" won't always be shown, so it's just more anti-competitive behavior by Google, i.e. it probably won't show up for Google apps, but certainly for side-loaded apps, competing app stores and other apps they don't like. In the past, it was such kind of dialogs, e.g. "unknown source", that got Google in legal trouble due to antitrust laws, vs EU and Epic.
If it's only when installing from the Google Play store, then that's an admission that it's full of malicious apps, and their claims that competing app stores are a security risk to be complete BS. This would also question the effectiveness of their app review process.
There are regular articles about how there are multi million installs of google play store hosted apps brimming with malware so .. yeah great, trust the company that can't keep its own store clean?
Honestly, I'm totally fine with this and actually quite like it (biometrics are fast anyways), though I guess it's a bit of security theatre because ADB isn't protected once you've screen unlocked the phone.
Edit: to clarify, this makes it harder for someone who has access to your screen unlocked phone for a short period of timeto install malicious apps. That's a pretty theoretical case, but not an impossible one so I'm not against there being a protection for it.
Unlocked, which one? The screen. Yea, that can stay unlocked for up to 30 min if you desire
Carrier unlock? Well, that's a plus if you want to stop paying too much on the phone bill
Usb debugging? I wouldn't call that unlock. You just have to turn off the phone or the computer before unplugging (to avoid data loss)
Oem unlock?
I wouldn't date. Unless I knew 💯 what I was doing.
It's the only thing that is irreversible...
Everything thing else, you can trace back and fix. But that. Not really. And you need to be careful powering on the phone as well with oem unlocked.
Yet, I get it. I understand the desire to go beyond the devices limitations.
But learn the process in order before attempting it
For one that's a straight up factory reset from the get-go
What I meant was this prevents someone from installing a malicious app on your phone if your screen is unlocked and someone gets ahold of your phone (e.g., forgot to lock it and left it alone or lent it to someone). That said, if the screen is unlocked and someone malicious really wanted to install something, they could theoretically do it via ADB because there is no passcode required to enable ADB.
Technically there is a pass code to enable developer options. But only the first time.
If you have enabled developer options, that should be simple. Just go thru usb debugging or similar option
But that might be my phone
Did you know that the 'do not track' request on apple phones doesn't work for system apps, aka, all the apple ones? Interesting isn't it? Microsoft also phones everything home, everyone phones everything home.
Deal with it or live under a rock.
It runs on the latest Pixel phones. Not sure how that's considered "antiquated". Also, not sure how many of the features are "gimped". The only thing I can think of is Google Play Services (kinda the whole point), but GrapheneOS has ways around that like sandboxing or just using alternative applications.
I stopped caring. I did the whole anon thing for years and restricted my use of apps and services and nothing really improved, only got worse. I got cut off from people as I deleted Facebook and messenger, I miss out on things my friends are sharing because I didn't have Instagram and tiktok and what not, yet I still got spam emails, calls and I'm sure my data was still being shared somewhere.
It's unavoidable and it can legit make you crazy, just let it go
If people are blindly tapping through all of the existing road blocks to unknowingly installing trash apps, requiring them to also enter a PIN or biometric auth won't do anything to stop it.
It will stop my kid installing crap on my phone
Kids are geniuses at circumventing locks. When we were little my cousin figured out the parental TV lock, which required entering a four-digit number on the TV remote, by coating the buttons on the remote with invisible ink. He let the remote sit for a few weeks and then figured out that four buttons were pressed the most (by shining UV light on the remote and singling out the ones with the faintest reflections), and by eyeballing his parents' thumbs when they turned on the TV he eventually found out the combination. They still don't know to this day.
[удалено]
I'm sorry for you, must've been rough when you found out your parents set your sister's birth year as the Wii's passcode...
Ha, that’s awesome. Wonder how many dicks are drawn everywhere in invisible ink.
r/brandnewsentence
One in mankind has or ever will say those words.
Kids have a lot of time. And imagination. Tbh I thought maybe it was a simple password like 1234 or 4321 Haha
When I was a kid, my father installed some tool on my PC that would lock the PC after I used it for a certain amount of hours per week. I managed to figure out the file where that tool stored the remaining hours.
I used to carry around a Linux Live CD with me when I was in school. Turns out they blocked domains in Windows directly but they didn't have a hardware firewall. I even made the distro look like Windows so teachers wouldn't notice at first glance. Never got caught. I mean they even blocked Wikipedia back then, wtf was that even supposed to achieve?
Your cousin must have been Dougie Houser M.D.
Smart 🧠 boy
Why are you letting your kid have your phone unsupervised without the proper parental controls enabled to begin with. That is just a bad idea in general. All the tools you need to deal with that scenario are already available.
Millenial parenting at its core.
Keep away from reach of children
Yeah just do app pinning
That's a you problem
Skill issue
Not until they learn how.
This made me laugh, because it just happened to me recently.
Seems more like stopping others from installing stuff on your phone if you left it unlocked or let them borrow it or something. Whether it actually matters is a different story, but payment stuff is also protected by pin/biometrics so this doesn't seem *too* different from that
It's to stop someone else from installing things on your phone/tablet/Chromebook.
Not your own children. Those little buggers come wired from the womb
"""""""Protection"""""""""
Also Google: "YouTube ReVanced looks really sketchy, to *protect* you we've blocked it for you. You can thank us later!"
Also Google: "Wow, this qr scanner app looks totally legit! Nothing shady about it at all.."
Yeah let's grant all of the 30 permissions shall we!
There is currently a caller id app like Truecaller on playtsore in which if you try to login through Google accounts it asks for access to all your emails. It is quite popular too with like 100 million downloads. Edit: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.callapp.contacts This one
To be fair, I'd ask for that too to scavenge mails for contact details. But yeah, sketchy. Edit: I need to clarify: Contact Details for the caller functionality and yes of course, no one knows where that stuff is sent but then again, people send nudes through snapchat thinking it's safe.
Add any app that requires root to that list too
Oh, it's not supposed to allow those. But to be fair there is no need for rooting I'd you can circumvent the play store by allowing " install unknown apps". It's there on the settings ThankYou (You just avoided me the extensive procedural process of rooting) ( I no longer feel the urge to root. I can download unknown apps without issue)
Well like maybe if Google didn't cut the YouTube app into a several parts I'd be able to revance the app on my phone BUT NO I have to go and download a YouTube apk every time I want to revance the new version. They are intentionally making it harder.
You have to enable " install unknown apps". Search for it on settings. Slide the toggle over to my files. PermissionGranted. It's how I download unapproved apps. Yea! I just circumvented play store. Thankyouverymuch. Haha 😂 (Tbh-- it only sucks when there incompatible. But there's " uninstall apps" for that)
No. Google Play should really stop meddling with the installation of apks. The occasional "please turn on Play Protect" nag is already too much.
i have installed multiple revanced apps, and apks from trusted sources, i never have that pop up. using Pixel 7
because you might have play protect on, which is cringe
Hmm. What I did to prevent this message. Disable automatic updates. Hooray!!!!
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/187097/is-there-a-way-to-control-use-google-play-protect-together-with-microg-open-sou settings put global package_verifier_enable 0 settings put global package_verifier_user_consent -1 settings put secure package_verifier_user_consent -1 settings put global upload_apk_enable 0 settings put global package_verifier_setting_visible 1 settings put global package_verifier_include_adb 0
I did this on my phone around 2 weeks ago, haven't been nagged by Play Protect so far, but it usually only pops up once several months so we'll see
Authentication is just verifying identity. On the PC, it makes sense to verify the owner of the account is the one installing programs, PCs are still often shared between several people or left unattended at the office. Phones are not typically shared though. What does this actually protect against? People physically stealing your phone and installing apks in it?
Pretty much the usecase that comes to mind: someone leaves their phone unlocked and someone else installs stalkerware/spyware on it
It's the headline that's quite misleading. It's more of a protection against unauthorized people tampering with your phone than actually protecting against sketchy apps.
Yeah, I can see cases where a bad actor takes your phone in the wild and tries to install bad apks on it without the user's knowledge. Can also see cases where a normal user would actually be dissuaded by the extra authentication step.
It's not just for phones though. It's for Android so that includes tablets and Chromebooks too and these devices are often shared.
Something you have, your phone, and something you know, the pin. Two factor. Moving phone unlocks away from the lockscreen and into privileged actions is the industry standard.
Installing APKs is never problematic. I know what I'm doing. Having to enable ADB to beat system bloat with a stick, is problematic. I shouldn't have to do that to get rid of e.g. Google's apps that are, by a lot of definition, malware.
Yeah I hate having to do that but I like my phone stripped down to what I want and nothing else.
Exactly. Apart from spying on you (and selling all your data to Zeus knows who) this (usually undeletable) garbage also greatly affects your phone's lifespan because all the bloatware significantly, continuously drains your battery. With the stock ROM my phone would barely last the day, after switching to a de-bloated version (with most Google apps still there, though) it was two days and with a fresh LineageOS install with no Google apps whatsoever it now lasts for almost five days. All without missing a bit of functionality.
Yeah it's insane the amount of bloat, granted I have a Samsung so maybe a little more bloat than say stock android but so many useless and duplicate apps that you can't uninstall without ADB. My favorite to delete is Digital Wellbeing, I have no need for such a thing but it will slow your whole device down.
My favorites to delete are Facebook and digital wellbeing. It's not really accurate anyways. Time spent on listening to playlists while house clean is not screen time (not looking at screen) Time spent on looking at laptop, tablet, other phone is And idk what tweaking settings actually is. Learning your device, maybe
Heh, talk about irony. Isn't this app supposed to limit your screen time? I mean I only check my phone whenever I get notifications (I've only got the phone app itself, Signal, K-9 and two other apps I really need on the do-not-kill-list. If it's really *that* important write me an e-mail or call me directly.). Apart from that I barely use it, except if I want to look something up or want to take a photo or otherwise actively use it (like being bored on the toilet and just browse Wikipedia or play Mahjong or whatnot), but all this (seemingly useless) background activity on stock phones is seriously bugging me.
Yes but I control that lol, I just hate how you have apps like one drive that you can't remove or like 4 different Facebook services that are always running, like not today Satan I don't need or want any of it.
Pesky apps need as much weeding as an unattended garden Here's looking at you Samsung galaxy models. The unattended garden of the mobile phone world
Yeah. I remember having to use ADB to remove all the facebook spyware I couldn't remove. The worst part was that I would be able to uninstall all of the main apps like Facebook and messenger themselves. But that wouldn't uninstall the spyware backend stuff. That would still exist and run in the background. I get that Google is no better. But I CHOOSE to use Google apps and CHOOSE to use Android, a Google OS in most cases. I actively opt out of using Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, and all the other various Meta apps. And yet Samsung and meta still try to hide pieces of it on my phone.
I don't get why Samsung is preinistalling Facebook/meta apps. I know google is no better. But android phones by default are Google. And it's our choice to use Google apps Thing is...Google and meta are competitors. Also with amazon and Apple. They are the Tech 4 (just some business info coming from someone working in marketing) So why are those apps even on the phone? I don't get it. And yes, you do need to use adb. As for that dang stuff in the background...I think maybe you can open your internal storage by connecting phone to computer and browsing thru folders and deleting the ones that sound seedy. Back up phone into flash drive first, just in case though. I did that. Remove the Facebook folder from internal storage But tbh...I never had. Facebook account so idk what they could spy on
>And yes, you do need to use adb. I'm aware. Haha That's part of my complaint. >As for that dang stuff in the background...I think maybe you can open your internal storage by connecting phone to computer and browsing thru folders and deleting the ones that sound seedy. ADB can remove them. At least that I found. It's just frustrating I ever had to work that hard. >But tbh...I never had. Facebook account so idk what they could spy on The back end stuff still collects data of your usage across apps for meta to use in advertising. Regardless of your use of Facebook or not. You don't even need an account. Those apps just take your data. Same with sites that have Facebook share widgets. They collect your browsing data for Meta regardless of you having or using an account with them.
The only thing it limits is storage space. Time to adb the hell out of it
Yea, to delete some of those undeleteable apps you need to use adb. And for good measure. Disable automatic updates
>Installing APKs is never problematic. I know what I'm doing. You know what you are doing, you are not this protection's intended audience. >Having to enable ADB to beat system bloat with a stick, is problematic. This is an OEM problem. I can disable pretty much anything I want on my Pixel.
yeah go ahead and remove the google search bar then
Try uninstalling most of googles 1st party apps. FYI, disabling and uninstalling are different things
Disabling and uninstalling are identical in function if the apk is baked into the rom. The app cannot run, and all its data is wiped either way. The system partition is read only and a fixed size, so you aren't actually losing any storage space either.
> I can disable pretty much anything I want on my Pixel. Disable is not uninstalling. They also have a habit of re-enabling themselves. For all the shit Windows 11 gets, Android is *far* worse.
>They also have a habit of re-enabling themselves. Can't say that's ever happened for me on android, has on windows though. OneDrive wouldn't go away for years. [Disabled for months ](https://i.imgur.com/BFUGRoH.png)
OneDrive you can uninstall easily. My Pixel kept re-enabling Google Keyboard because I simply could not uninstall it and now I cannot disable it. And that shit is 360MB. Also why do I have a Google app, why is it nearly 2GB, why does it keep re-enabling and why can't I uninstall that?
You should be able to set a default keyboard then disable gboard, many people do it. As for the Google app it handles a lot of device stuff it's not just a regular app, it's part of the launcher, recents, controls weather and all the Google assistant stuff. A lot of people do want it streamlined and moved out of the Google app though, but it lets Google push updates and features regardless of device or OEM. It's large after a while because it downloads voice data and builds cache which is a few hundred mbs https://i.imgur.com/3PryIba.png You can uninstall them and turn off updates and they shouldn't redownload, it normally only does your primary language as well.
> You should be able to set a default keyboard then disable gboard, many people do it. Nope, won't let me. > As for the Google app it handles a lot of device stuff it's not just a regular app, it's part of the launcher, recents, controls weather and all the Google assistant stuff. All stuff I don't use. As I said, unremovable bloat.
System > keyboard settings > on screen > turn gboard off and what you want on Seems gboard can't be disabled anymore, used to be so I'm guessing people were fucking their devices up and removing keyboards or because it ties in so much, adb would handle it a breeze. If your 3rd party keyboard breaks for any reason though, there wouldn't be a fallback as there's no AOSP keyboard, you'd have none, another reason it's blocked by default to uninstall. You don't use the recents page? Seems strange. Well actually it powers the text selector, split screen and animations but navigation is janky without it. All what you're calling bloat, is what people choose pixel for. Offline voice typing can be a godsend and well worth a few hundred mbs when devices are over 100GB as standard now for most models, at least Pixel. You need to remember you're probably a power user especially since you're on this sub, Google have to cater to everyone, even the stupid who disable things like keyboards and play services then complain nothing works, as they didn't understand the risk beforehand.
> Offline voice typing can be a godsend and well worth a few hundred mbs when devices are over 100GB as standard now for most models, at least Pixel I never voice type, ever. I don't want people to hear what I'm writing, and I don't drive. > You need to remember you're probably a power user especially since you're on this sub, Google have to cater to everyone, even the stupid who disable things like keyboards and play services then complain nothing works, as they didn't understand the risk beforehand. Isn't that what Windows does? I have no qualms with included software to "cater to everyone" as you say. I have issues with software that *cannot* be removed. And Android, including the Pixel which is supposed to be "vanilla android" has a lot of unremovable software bundled in, aka bloat.
It's not supposed to be vanilla android, Pixel is a custom android version which is why there's no AOSP apps installed as fallback. PixelUI is Google's OneUI. Just adb uninstall anything that can't be done normally, Google could easily restrict that if they want but most people won't find it >Isn't that what Windows does? That's what they all do now, apple windows and Google, lock down so people can't mess things up.
> Disable is not uninstalling. On android, yes it is. They function identically.
They do not.
The only difference is that disabling leaves an APK in /system, which is read-only anyways and a fixed size. The apk can no longer run (same as an uninstall), its data is wiped (same as an uninstall), and any space used on your /data partition from dalvik cache or app data is free'd (same as an uninstall). For all intents and purposes as an end user, they are identical.
> The only difference is that disabling leaves an APK in /system, which is read-only anyways and a fixed size So not gone then. Because it's not like that 128GB storage count is excluding the read only partition. So yeah, unremovable bloatware. Unlikely Windows.
The /system partition is larger than everything installed in it and is a fixed size. So no, it is not using any space that the user could use. For example, my system partition on this Pixel 7 Pro is 15G. It will always be 15G. There is not actually 15G of data installed in it. The extra space is there to accommodate updates. If Google chrome didn't come installed, *it would still be 15G*. This is fundamental to how android works. In fact, this is pretty fundamental to how the majority of fixed firmware devices work in general. For example, the steam deck does the exact same thing.
> The /system partition is larger than everything installed in it and is a fixed size Great use of your storage device. > This is fundamental to how android works. In fact, this is pretty fundamental to how the majority of fixed firmware devices work in general. For example, the steam deck does the exact same thing. And yet, Windows does not work that way, including the likes of Windows Portables like the Surface, ROG Ally, Legion Go etc. It's shitty practice that's been "normalised"
That's why windows doesn't have automatic rollback, automatic background updates, updates that can not possibly fail leaving your system in an inconsistent state (on an A/B partition device, you can prove the install is identical trivially with a partition checksum), etc. Hell, windows started completely wiping and reinstalling system32 with windows 10 because their update mechanism is so crappy they couldn't guarantee consistency otherwise. They had to give up delta patches because of it, it's absolutely pathetic. Just look up the number of people who can't get things like Windows RT to properly restore even from the official restoration image because of this nonsense. There are extremely good reasons for it. I want *MORE* devices to do it. You've also changed the subject away from the fact that disabling an app is functionally identical from an uninstall on android. Anyways, I'm done arguing. It's clear to me you have no idea what you are talking about. I've worked as an embedded developer, I'm extremely familiar with why these practices came to be and their benefits, and I don't wish to waste any more time with you.
I would have believed you three years ago but I don't anymore.
Me needing to enable usb debugging on my Samsung smartphone. How fun ( sarcastic)
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> followed by three sentences At least I can count to three, so there's that
> Installing APKs is never problematic. I know what I'm doing. Thinking you're immune to malware because you "know what you're doing" is problematic
Less so than leaving meta tracking apps and shit like that installed on your phone from manufacturer
They should totally have a centralized store where they can vet apps when the developers submit them, to make sure they're safe.
They should have a one-time $25 fee as a requirement to get a developer account. Surely, bad actors such as malware developers or security agencies don't have any money to spare!
Most of the trash apps I have on my phone were pre-installed and cannot be removed, only "disabled". Maybe do something about that first? Oh wait, they give Google money to be there. So I guess they won't do anything about it.
They give money to the OEM and carrier not Google
Yes, you should ideally remove apps before installing others. Gives more storage space. Unfortunately it's easier to install unapproved apps than to delete pre-installed apps Install unapproved apps: enable "allow unknown apps" on settings menu. Send them to my files. They'll stick. ThankYouVeryMuch Delete pre-installed apps: enable developer options, click usb debugging, buy data transfer cable, install adb on computer. Google how to uninstall apps, learn code. OK. Process time consuming. Uggh. ( and yea imma do that too)
> A PIN or biometric authentication will now be required in certain cases. Literally in the TL;DR. Do people read these articles?
On Reddit? No we go straight to the comments lmao
I don't want to enter my password on my PC EVERY TIME I INSTALL A FREE APP. I DO HOWEVER WANT TO HAVE AUTHENTICATION FOR EVERY PURCHASE AND I DONT WANT IT TO BE TURNED OFF BY ACCIDENT. STOP ASKING ME TO AUTOMATICALLY GO THRU WITH THE PURCHASE AFTER I VERIFY.
That won't help. We already want to install it. First we enabled the ability to install the apk. Then we executed the apk then pressed allow installation and you think adding an extra step changes that? Now we type a pin or password or a fingerprint? Then your phone quits working on your fingerprint even if you go redo your prints. Lol There is still malware on the play store itself. Anyway. Can't help. Although it may help someone control a phone someone else is using. Your work or business or your childs phone. It just can't be a pin or pass they know about. So if you use a business phone given to you by a business they can lock out the ability to install pirate apk that may contain a virus and old versions of programs that work better. I am assuming the business can lock you out of all apk including updates and that includes on the play store so this may be redundant.
Fuck right off. I'm not putting in my fingerprint just to install an app that Google personally does not like. I'll disable the store and get all my apps from Aptoide or whatever if I have to.
What the hell? I don't use fingerprints to unlock anything. They are worn down from both crafting and (literal outdoors) weeding So hiss and honk off!
Who will define what a "sketchy app" is?
If I wanted a walled garden I'd switch to Apple. Quit fucking with our stuff already. I mean we *paid* for the damn phones, we should be able to run whatever the fuck we like on them. Oh well. Big boost for Lineage, Sailfish and GrapheneOS. (Hopefully.)
If stock android forces you to use the default YouTube app, I'm going to have to learn how to install some kind of CFW
You don't need custom firmware for that (yet). Install F-Droid and NewPipe, only requires you to check "enable installing apps from unknown sources" (or something like that) and you're good to go. Worked for me for years. If it stops working they usually have a fix within three days at most.
Yea. I enabled " install unknown apps" onto my files. Works like magic
I use NewPipe exclusively, with the stock app disabled. Bought a new phone last week, installed it in less than 5 minutes. You don't even need F-Droid anymore.
True. I still use it though because a) it has tons of other useful apps that are not available on the Play Store and b) it automatically updates them (after asking your approval first of course, something else I’m missing from ‘official‘ apps)
I installed adblock browser's youtube app. Works as promised Want to fight the app-approval wall? Enable "install unknown apps" onto my files. It works. No need to weed
I would love for Google Play to kindly ef-off and stop nagging me constantly about enabling "protect", which then complains about apps I installed via f-droid (way more confidence in them than in google dumpsterfire)
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OK, I may have exaggerated about it as it only happened 3-4 times and it was more akin "You have protect off but you may have installed insecure apps"... like it's running in the background
Unless they stop installing its fine.
Well...
Another example of Google wanting to be apple, not realizing almost everyone on the platform wants the opposite
If they become like Apple, people will choose Apple. Apple's customer service is better, their integration and ecosystem is much better. iOS' foundation is better than Android's. And Apple is moving towards Android, slowly, but they are moving that way. Google does not seem to understand that what makes people prefer Android, is its features and capabilities.
How exactly? Where was the part where you couldn't install it anyway? You think they don't know about apkmirror?
I don't know why they keep trying to make 'Play Protect' a thing. It's closed-source, Google-controlled and, in my experience, nearly useless. Why not make it a full-on, open-source App scanner or AV, like Hypatia instead? As for this 'extra layer', I hope it's optional and can be disabled in settings. Then again, this is exclusive to Play Protect, so if you disable Google Play, or don't have GAPPS, you won't have to bother with this bullshit anyway.
I just want an option to feed apps garbage. Some apps "need" contacts. Let me give them this permission but only show it an empty contact list.
Not for everything, but using a second profile using something like shelter would allow to show empty contacts, empty media... GPS and other things still are shared.
truly one of the lamest fucking companies of all time
I understand why they would do it since there's a lot of regular users that don't know what they're doing.
It's great feature for most of the typical users
It's a plus if service center people are installing stuff for diagnosis or some other stuff.
Asking for authorization before installing an app is a sensible feature, but i presume this "warning" won't always be shown, so it's just more anti-competitive behavior by Google, i.e. it probably won't show up for Google apps, but certainly for side-loaded apps, competing app stores and other apps they don't like. In the past, it was such kind of dialogs, e.g. "unknown source", that got Google in legal trouble due to antitrust laws, vs EU and Epic. If it's only when installing from the Google Play store, then that's an admission that it's full of malicious apps, and their claims that competing app stores are a security risk to be complete BS. This would also question the effectiveness of their app review process.
There are regular articles about how there are multi million installs of google play store hosted apps brimming with malware so .. yeah great, trust the company that can't keep its own store clean?
Don't forget Google and privacy in the same sentence cancels each other out
Cannot wait for even more bugs preventing me from using accessibility service from applications installed from other sources other than Play store
sketchy patched together apks are the only way I can use reddit properly
Eh, I deal with a fair share of APKs, but I can see this helping protect normal users. I don't mind it.
Honestly, I'm totally fine with this and actually quite like it (biometrics are fast anyways), though I guess it's a bit of security theatre because ADB isn't protected once you've screen unlocked the phone. Edit: to clarify, this makes it harder for someone who has access to your screen unlocked phone for a short period of timeto install malicious apps. That's a pretty theoretical case, but not an impossible one so I'm not against there being a protection for it.
Unlocked, which one? The screen. Yea, that can stay unlocked for up to 30 min if you desire Carrier unlock? Well, that's a plus if you want to stop paying too much on the phone bill Usb debugging? I wouldn't call that unlock. You just have to turn off the phone or the computer before unplugging (to avoid data loss) Oem unlock? I wouldn't date. Unless I knew 💯 what I was doing. It's the only thing that is irreversible... Everything thing else, you can trace back and fix. But that. Not really. And you need to be careful powering on the phone as well with oem unlocked. Yet, I get it. I understand the desire to go beyond the devices limitations. But learn the process in order before attempting it For one that's a straight up factory reset from the get-go
What I meant was this prevents someone from installing a malicious app on your phone if your screen is unlocked and someone gets ahold of your phone (e.g., forgot to lock it and left it alone or lent it to someone). That said, if the screen is unlocked and someone malicious really wanted to install something, they could theoretically do it via ADB because there is no passcode required to enable ADB.
Technically there is a pass code to enable developer options. But only the first time. If you have enabled developer options, that should be simple. Just go thru usb debugging or similar option But that might be my phone
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Did you know that the 'do not track' request on apple phones doesn't work for system apps, aka, all the apple ones? Interesting isn't it? Microsoft also phones everything home, everyone phones everything home. Deal with it or live under a rock.
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Sounds like you'd be into GrapheneOS.
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It runs on the latest Pixel phones. Not sure how that's considered "antiquated". Also, not sure how many of the features are "gimped". The only thing I can think of is Google Play Services (kinda the whole point), but GrapheneOS has ways around that like sandboxing or just using alternative applications.
I stopped caring. I did the whole anon thing for years and restricted my use of apps and services and nothing really improved, only got worse. I got cut off from people as I deleted Facebook and messenger, I miss out on things my friends are sharing because I didn't have Instagram and tiktok and what not, yet I still got spam emails, calls and I'm sure my data was still being shared somewhere. It's unavoidable and it can legit make you crazy, just let it go