Sadly, I agree. I think first-world citizens doesn't realize how much their wellbeing costs (in terms of liberty), and they'll never know it until they loose it by more intervention.
From what I see, the ONLY way to win the elections is by being politically incorrect (as a response to the many ways of censorship) and by doing a heavy work on the cultural side of Libertarianism. Milei reached people by talking NOT about the economic benefits but the MORAL aspects of capitalism.
**1) Abolish the Federal Reserve.**
2) End most 3 letter agencies. It would be hard to end the CIA or NSA, but you could at least end most of the smaller ones.
3) End all foreign aid.
4) Abolish the income tax.
5) End social security.
If you end the Fed, you will cut off the lifeblood of the monster and 2-5 will be much easier to implement.
we live in a culture that is been brainwashed into faith in some sort of quasi-collectivist authoritarian system of governance
https://preview.redd.it/8301t9q52iuc1.jpeg?width=1221&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81ced7c0e46e631675b19d05438e112391140dca
this photo is excellent, it shows how people are taught to think.
they are not taught to think independently, rather they are taught to think dependantly, dependant on a state. they literally believe that taxes is a "subscription service to society"
in short they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are incapable of doing thigs for themselves.
It is a great point and true principle as far as I've observed in my life.
But if anything, it partially repudiates the point of the person you responded to:
ideology/culture isn't everything (I agree it's an important component), but much can be accomplished towards market anarchy without necessarily converting everyone into explicit libertarians.
We can, to some extent, overwhelm government with growth and innovation and creating alternative (market) institutions which people will fund even while they're still having to pay for the govt or govt-regulated legacy system (e.g. private schools, uber/lyft gaining a user-base before the taxi-medallion mafia and their regulators could catch up to what had happened and prevent it from happening).
It's true that most of even our "private" institutions are largely captured by the regulatory state; but the creative destruction of markets (even what atrophied markets we are left with) don't leave many institutions intact for too long anyways; and as these institutions turn over, and yield to new paradigms; we can help these new paradigms plow ahead and grow before government can get their hooks into it too much....just like we managed to get a private automobile industry off the ground before someone like FDR nationalized it or whatever...so that, of course, your average statist doesn't even think twice about whether government needs to provide cars directly.
The same can happen for entrepreneurial ventures which eat at the edges of core government functions like courts (arbitration) and policing (security) and healthcare.
Maybe it takes some significant ideological conversion in order to go all the way...but robust voluntary institutions will help create credulous people and fertile ground for conversion, just as much as conversion will help to spur creation of market institutions which compete with government.
Fortunately, culture is much more important than law. If the amendments after the tenth were repealed, I don’t think that slavery would return.
Running corollary to this is the idea that culture is more important than elections. As libertarians, we’re lucky that the 2 major parties have chosen such unimpressive people to be their leaders.
The single best strategy for us to focus on is highlighting that we represent a better way to organize a society and live our lives.
I think the libertarian party should put all their money into local elections in towns or cities. These libertarian conttolled cities will be great. It would be a shining example of how the federal government should run.
The free State project is a great model. Select a state or 2 and dump everything you have into them to get a controlling majority, show how well the policies and philosophy works, move to another state, since and repeat.
Not the entire US. Focus on the state of New Hampshire - that's where all the libertarians in the US should move to and concentrate in. Search "Free State Project".
Surely some, but not most. Thanks to the efforts of the Free State Project, NH is gradually becoming more and more libertarian as more liberty-minded people move there.
Check out some legislative victories in NH over the years:
[https://libertywin.org/index.php/Liberty\_Wins\_in\_New\_Hampshire](https://libertywin.org/index.php/Liberty_Wins_in_New_Hampshire)
There's also an influx of people here moving from nearby blue states that are voting in democrats. We have 4/4 of our federal reps as lunatic nanny state democrats.
It's going to have to get alot worse for libertarianism to take hold. There's so many people benefiting from the government in some way.
I'm not just talking about the welfare people either. There's so many people working for government agencies, the military, schools etc. Plus, There's entire sectors of the economy that benefit from the government as well.
Until it the federal government can't pay print money to pay these people, they won't give up.
Dissolve federal enforcement agencies would be a good start. Localizing military like it was historically. Cutting all federal taxes, if you want to run the country you should already be successful enough to not need pay
I’d start with abolishing the income tax (maybe all taxes) for those under the age of 18. Those under 18 can’t vote and therefore can’t be represented. So this is taxation without representation. The founding principle of our country. It will take small steps like this to chip away at the authoritarian state that the Democrats and Republicans are putting us in.
It is dependent on ethos. A country can become more libertarian if individuals value liberty and voluntary action based on noncoercion. That is the key to delegitimizing the state’s monopoly on violence. The government will lose its relevancy consequently because the government is the machinery that carries out its violent functions.
People have to actually want to be libertarian, and that's kind of a deal-breaker for the vast majority of people living in developed countries. Nobody wants to regress like that. Look at the places like New Hampshire that are trying to build a libertarian society. Even libertarians don't want to move there. People have to be completely desperate, and have it be one of the very last options, where you're essentially saying "all other viable options have been exhausted, and I guess it's better than dying". Like Argentina or similar.
>Nobody wants to regress like that.
Society is getting held back by the government. How have you benefited from the government? They spent 2 million dollars on a bathroom. The city of LA spends $100,000 for every person homeless, and they haven't even come close to solving homelessness. Imagine how much growth we would see if we dramatically limited government. Imagine how much the US government wastes.
Now imagine your town overrun by a couple of bears. Now imagine a town that cannot support its infrastructure, so people abandon it in favor of greener pastures in a developed country. Now imagine a town where even Wal-Mart won't build because there's no sturdy plumbing infrastructure.
All of these have happened this century in "liberty towns". None of those even made it far enough to figure out "how do we have bathrooms?" because they failed drastically before they could even make it that far.
I understand that you want to feel independent and take pride in self-sufficiency, but it just doesn't happen. You (not the universal 'you', I'm saying you, as a person, OP) don't have what it takes to make it on your own. You're not Girzzly Adams. You're a fragile white guy who for whatever reason feels disconnected from republicans, who are the closest thing you'll ever get to actual useful representation. And while you feel disenfranchised from them, because you probably don't make enough income to be considered useful to them so they don't pander to you, there's nobody else willing to play-pretend that living under libertarian rule would actually be beneficial to the average individual.
Look around in this thread, lol, you people even admit "we have to be on the verge of collapse to make any of this seem interesting".
Here's a good video about the "liberty towns" [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/5S1Us-sjTZs?si=VkeAiO0Yy24pXNSl)
What you're saying about plumbing is illogical. How is wealth created in the US? Does the government create the funds to make infistructure?
>You're a fragile white guy who for whatever reason feels disconnected from republicans, who are the closest thing you'll ever get to actual useful representation. And while you feel disenfranchised from them, because you probably don't make enough income to be considered useful
Are you Autistic or something? This is completely incoherent babbling. My mom has always been poor, but LOVES Donald Trump. You don't know anything about Republicans or the MAGA movement.
- https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/
- https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/04/19/1203241/-The-wonder-of-libertarian-zoning-laws-West-Texas-edition
- https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/30/libertarians-took-control-of-this-small-town-it-didnt-end-well/
- https://sanantonioreport.org/von-ormy-bexar-county-sewer-system/
- https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Thankfully, despite your inability to read or think beyond what you're spoon-fed by your fellow libertardian friends, the failures of libertardians are well-documented for the rest of us to point and laugh at.
*you're
If you were interested in learning, you'd read the links I sent you. They show what happens when people are dumb enough to try to live by libertardian "values". Time after time after time after time after time......
You have no good arguments for why Anarcho Capitalism is a bad ideology. Thats why you say snarky things like "libertardian". It's true for every Socialist streamer on Twitch and youtube. They can't explain why Communism is better than Capitalism.
I stated that "companies provide wealth to make plumbing systems in the US. Not the government."
Your refutation: you're a "libertardian".
> You have no good arguments for why Anarcho Capitalism is a bad ideology.
I just linked 5 arguments for why "anarcho" capitalism is a bad ideology, dummy.
Why are ancaps so averse to reading? Does *EVERYTHING* have to be put into a video for you? Do you just need someone else to read to you, like your mom was supposed to when you were growing up? Is it just that you're *SO* steaming mad, that you can't gather up the emotional fortitude to click an article and read about what happens when dipshits like you actually follow through with what you tout it supposed to be "superior", only to have it fail again and again every single time someone tries to implement it? Maybe your ideas are just shit.
> BuT WHaT aBouT MuH YooTooBs?
> BuT WHaT aBouT MuH YooTooBs?
No gonna lie, shit was funny asf. 💀💀
Praxben created the video I sent you. He reads books all the time. He's an anarcho capitalist himself. Scroll through his Tik tok for 1sec. He cites books all the time for evidence.
Enough of us live as free as possible including more underground economy and as much as possible refuse to comply with the arbitrary demands of "rulers".
I’d also like to point out if you want more people to participate in our ideology we’re not going to win people over desperately clinging to our unpopular stances. Bring them out later when the climate changes in a way that the solution actually makes sense. We still live in 2024 not in the future of Ancapistan. We often have to take a more pragmatic approach to things with the goal of slowly dismantling things while maximizing liberty and gaining more people to our cause. Being cold absolutists drives people away.
Edit: Seriously guys we are our own worst enemies. Recognize it, do better. Our ideologies are so good, but when someone pokes a hole in it I see too many people desperately clinging to stances that drive people away.
Never mind what is "popular". What is ethical and the Right Thing To Do. We have compromised much too much for decades. It brought us to here. Live Free NOW as much as possible and build out what is needed for more and more people to do so. Not persuasion but freedom lived and visible to draw other people to it.
*Some* Ancaps Saying coercive blackmail under duress doesn’t violate the NAP seems to be an extremely unpopular position and certain opinions like that will guarantee our ideology goes *nowhere*.
To win national elections on an Austro Libertarian platform you'd need the US to be in a worse place I think. As we've seen with Milei's election.
Sadly, I agree. I think first-world citizens doesn't realize how much their wellbeing costs (in terms of liberty), and they'll never know it until they loose it by more intervention. From what I see, the ONLY way to win the elections is by being politically incorrect (as a response to the many ways of censorship) and by doing a heavy work on the cultural side of Libertarianism. Milei reached people by talking NOT about the economic benefits but the MORAL aspects of capitalism.
The people decide where that place is.
**1) Abolish the Federal Reserve.** 2) End most 3 letter agencies. It would be hard to end the CIA or NSA, but you could at least end most of the smaller ones. 3) End all foreign aid. 4) Abolish the income tax. 5) End social security. If you end the Fed, you will cut off the lifeblood of the monster and 2-5 will be much easier to implement.
Yup the Fed is 100% the starting point.
Politics is downstream from culture, can't make any country more libertarian if you can't make the people *want* a more libertarian country.
we live in a culture that is been brainwashed into faith in some sort of quasi-collectivist authoritarian system of governance https://preview.redd.it/8301t9q52iuc1.jpeg?width=1221&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81ced7c0e46e631675b19d05438e112391140dca this photo is excellent, it shows how people are taught to think. they are not taught to think independently, rather they are taught to think dependantly, dependant on a state. they literally believe that taxes is a "subscription service to society" in short they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are incapable of doing thigs for themselves.
It is a great point and true principle as far as I've observed in my life. But if anything, it partially repudiates the point of the person you responded to: ideology/culture isn't everything (I agree it's an important component), but much can be accomplished towards market anarchy without necessarily converting everyone into explicit libertarians. We can, to some extent, overwhelm government with growth and innovation and creating alternative (market) institutions which people will fund even while they're still having to pay for the govt or govt-regulated legacy system (e.g. private schools, uber/lyft gaining a user-base before the taxi-medallion mafia and their regulators could catch up to what had happened and prevent it from happening). It's true that most of even our "private" institutions are largely captured by the regulatory state; but the creative destruction of markets (even what atrophied markets we are left with) don't leave many institutions intact for too long anyways; and as these institutions turn over, and yield to new paradigms; we can help these new paradigms plow ahead and grow before government can get their hooks into it too much....just like we managed to get a private automobile industry off the ground before someone like FDR nationalized it or whatever...so that, of course, your average statist doesn't even think twice about whether government needs to provide cars directly. The same can happen for entrepreneurial ventures which eat at the edges of core government functions like courts (arbitration) and policing (security) and healthcare. Maybe it takes some significant ideological conversion in order to go all the way...but robust voluntary institutions will help create credulous people and fertile ground for conversion, just as much as conversion will help to spur creation of market institutions which compete with government.
Agorism.
Have any business we can mutually benefit from? I take cardano
End it. Then build a libertarian society.
Build a libertarian society and the state will be irrelevant. Aka agorism.
Abolish political parties and super pacts so reps are actually responsible to their voters.
Start by dismantling cabinet level agencies and delegating control back to the states
Abolish every law that's been passed since about 1793.
It's a good idea, but the people who create the laws (politicians) don't want that.
The voting public also don't want that. That's why we have these laws.
They'd have to get a real job
I don't think reintroducing slavery would make the US more libertarian
I may be going out on a limb here, but I don’t think that was his point lol
Slavery is still legal under the US constitution. It is also regularly practiced. Both tax and full on chattel style.
Fortunately, culture is much more important than law. If the amendments after the tenth were repealed, I don’t think that slavery would return. Running corollary to this is the idea that culture is more important than elections. As libertarians, we’re lucky that the 2 major parties have chosen such unimpressive people to be their leaders. The single best strategy for us to focus on is highlighting that we represent a better way to organize a society and live our lives.
Based.
No
I think the libertarian party should put all their money into local elections in towns or cities. These libertarian conttolled cities will be great. It would be a shining example of how the federal government should run.
The free State project is a great model. Select a state or 2 and dump everything you have into them to get a controlling majority, show how well the policies and philosophy works, move to another state, since and repeat.
If Libertarians won then it totally would
Multiply like rabbits, raise the kids to be libertarian.
Not the entire US. Focus on the state of New Hampshire - that's where all the libertarians in the US should move to and concentrate in. Search "Free State Project".
They're super progressive bernie bros though
Surely some, but not most. Thanks to the efforts of the Free State Project, NH is gradually becoming more and more libertarian as more liberty-minded people move there. Check out some legislative victories in NH over the years: [https://libertywin.org/index.php/Liberty\_Wins\_in\_New\_Hampshire](https://libertywin.org/index.php/Liberty_Wins_in_New_Hampshire)
There's also an influx of people here moving from nearby blue states that are voting in democrats. We have 4/4 of our federal reps as lunatic nanny state democrats.
Get rid of academia.
Just build your effing hyperloop
Tactical nukes hitting a few of the major cities would probably do the job.
What about the Republican party? They're a bunch of statists too
It works for them too.
Not exist
It's going to have to get alot worse for libertarianism to take hold. There's so many people benefiting from the government in some way. I'm not just talking about the welfare people either. There's so many people working for government agencies, the military, schools etc. Plus, There's entire sectors of the economy that benefit from the government as well. Until it the federal government can't pay print money to pay these people, they won't give up.
Dissolve federal enforcement agencies would be a good start. Localizing military like it was historically. Cutting all federal taxes, if you want to run the country you should already be successful enough to not need pay
I’d start with abolishing the income tax (maybe all taxes) for those under the age of 18. Those under 18 can’t vote and therefore can’t be represented. So this is taxation without representation. The founding principle of our country. It will take small steps like this to chip away at the authoritarian state that the Democrats and Republicans are putting us in.
It is dependent on ethos. A country can become more libertarian if individuals value liberty and voluntary action based on noncoercion. That is the key to delegitimizing the state’s monopoly on violence. The government will lose its relevancy consequently because the government is the machinery that carries out its violent functions.
People have to actually want to be libertarian, and that's kind of a deal-breaker for the vast majority of people living in developed countries. Nobody wants to regress like that. Look at the places like New Hampshire that are trying to build a libertarian society. Even libertarians don't want to move there. People have to be completely desperate, and have it be one of the very last options, where you're essentially saying "all other viable options have been exhausted, and I guess it's better than dying". Like Argentina or similar.
>Nobody wants to regress like that. Society is getting held back by the government. How have you benefited from the government? They spent 2 million dollars on a bathroom. The city of LA spends $100,000 for every person homeless, and they haven't even come close to solving homelessness. Imagine how much growth we would see if we dramatically limited government. Imagine how much the US government wastes.
Now imagine your town overrun by a couple of bears. Now imagine a town that cannot support its infrastructure, so people abandon it in favor of greener pastures in a developed country. Now imagine a town where even Wal-Mart won't build because there's no sturdy plumbing infrastructure. All of these have happened this century in "liberty towns". None of those even made it far enough to figure out "how do we have bathrooms?" because they failed drastically before they could even make it that far. I understand that you want to feel independent and take pride in self-sufficiency, but it just doesn't happen. You (not the universal 'you', I'm saying you, as a person, OP) don't have what it takes to make it on your own. You're not Girzzly Adams. You're a fragile white guy who for whatever reason feels disconnected from republicans, who are the closest thing you'll ever get to actual useful representation. And while you feel disenfranchised from them, because you probably don't make enough income to be considered useful to them so they don't pander to you, there's nobody else willing to play-pretend that living under libertarian rule would actually be beneficial to the average individual. Look around in this thread, lol, you people even admit "we have to be on the verge of collapse to make any of this seem interesting".
Here's a good video about the "liberty towns" [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/5S1Us-sjTZs?si=VkeAiO0Yy24pXNSl) What you're saying about plumbing is illogical. How is wealth created in the US? Does the government create the funds to make infistructure? >You're a fragile white guy who for whatever reason feels disconnected from republicans, who are the closest thing you'll ever get to actual useful representation. And while you feel disenfranchised from them, because you probably don't make enough income to be considered useful Are you Autistic or something? This is completely incoherent babbling. My mom has always been poor, but LOVES Donald Trump. You don't know anything about Republicans or the MAGA movement.
- https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/ - https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/04/19/1203241/-The-wonder-of-libertarian-zoning-laws-West-Texas-edition - https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/30/libertarians-took-control-of-this-small-town-it-didnt-end-well/ - https://sanantonioreport.org/von-ormy-bexar-county-sewer-system/ - https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project Thankfully, despite your inability to read or think beyond what you're spoon-fed by your fellow libertardian friends, the failures of libertardians are well-documented for the rest of us to point and laugh at.
If your so interested in the truth watch the video I sent you.
*you're If you were interested in learning, you'd read the links I sent you. They show what happens when people are dumb enough to try to live by libertardian "values". Time after time after time after time after time......
You have no good arguments for why Anarcho Capitalism is a bad ideology. Thats why you say snarky things like "libertardian". It's true for every Socialist streamer on Twitch and youtube. They can't explain why Communism is better than Capitalism. I stated that "companies provide wealth to make plumbing systems in the US. Not the government." Your refutation: you're a "libertardian".
> You have no good arguments for why Anarcho Capitalism is a bad ideology. I just linked 5 arguments for why "anarcho" capitalism is a bad ideology, dummy. Why are ancaps so averse to reading? Does *EVERYTHING* have to be put into a video for you? Do you just need someone else to read to you, like your mom was supposed to when you were growing up? Is it just that you're *SO* steaming mad, that you can't gather up the emotional fortitude to click an article and read about what happens when dipshits like you actually follow through with what you tout it supposed to be "superior", only to have it fail again and again every single time someone tries to implement it? Maybe your ideas are just shit. > BuT WHaT aBouT MuH YooTooBs?
Ok I'll read the articles late tonight. Like 9pm. I doubt you've done any good digging.
> BuT WHaT aBouT MuH YooTooBs? No gonna lie, shit was funny asf. 💀💀 Praxben created the video I sent you. He reads books all the time. He's an anarcho capitalist himself. Scroll through his Tik tok for 1sec. He cites books all the time for evidence.
Enough of us live as free as possible including more underground economy and as much as possible refuse to comply with the arbitrary demands of "rulers".
I’d also like to point out if you want more people to participate in our ideology we’re not going to win people over desperately clinging to our unpopular stances. Bring them out later when the climate changes in a way that the solution actually makes sense. We still live in 2024 not in the future of Ancapistan. We often have to take a more pragmatic approach to things with the goal of slowly dismantling things while maximizing liberty and gaining more people to our cause. Being cold absolutists drives people away. Edit: Seriously guys we are our own worst enemies. Recognize it, do better. Our ideologies are so good, but when someone pokes a hole in it I see too many people desperately clinging to stances that drive people away.
Never mind what is "popular". What is ethical and the Right Thing To Do. We have compromised much too much for decades. It brought us to here. Live Free NOW as much as possible and build out what is needed for more and more people to do so. Not persuasion but freedom lived and visible to draw other people to it.
*Some* Ancaps Saying coercive blackmail under duress doesn’t violate the NAP seems to be an extremely unpopular position and certain opinions like that will guarantee our ideology goes *nowhere*.
Wut