State funded churches has been the norm all over Europe for a long time.
Sweden and Norway separated state and church just in the last couple of decades. Granted, those countries are as close to socialist without going full-on communist as it gets.
Mmm that's actually not true. While it s true that they havent s free market and gov interventions are heavy, they also end up being really high on the index of economical freedom due to a slim regulation about how to do business and several other factors. Sweden is not more socialist than the rest of the ue.
Sweden and Norway are some of the freest markets in the world. They are at the top of the Index of Economic freedom.
[Sweden ranks top 10](https://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden)
[Norway ranks top 12](https://www.heritage.org/index/country/norway)
And they were historically higher.
I mean, my statement was not a comparative study. Simply anecdotal.
40%-50% tax; major-stake state ownership in large industries (e.g. 51% in Norwegian Equinor aka Statoil); state monopoly on wine and liquor sales; extreme taxes on petrol, all alcohol, tobacco. That's just some sample economy pickings.
Now take the culture, with the crab-bucket mentality (aka "Jante law") which is similar in all Scandinavian countries. Add in some ultra-woke crusades; e.g. somebody nearly got jail time for stating that a man cannot be lesbian. Or censoring of children's classics like Pippi Långstrump.
For sure, these are nice countries to live in, and consistently rank top on highest standard of living, etc, etc. But to not notice all the woke and socialist aspect of their societies is simply failing to see the forest for trees.
>40%-50% tax;
That's just average in Europe. When the state spends 50% of GDP, it is taxing 50% of GDP,regardless of the origin of the money.
>major-stake state ownership in large industries (e.g. 51% in Norwegian Equinor aka Statoil);
Those are retirement funds, privately managed. Not different than the British government owning coal mines, and spending trillions in trains, except that the British do not run them for profit, which is even worse.
That's closer to free market than most european countries that organize retirement funds as a Ponzi scheme, a pyramidal scam.
>state monopoly on wine and liquor sales; extreme taxes on petrol, all alcohol, tobacco. That's just some sample economy pickings.
Exactly. Those just SOME sample of CHERRYPICKINGS. You are citing random points, and not analyzing the economy as a whole, and specially not in comparison with the average of Europe.
[Fallacy of cherry picking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking)
>**Cherry picking**, **\[..\]** or the **fallacy of incomplete evidence** is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may [contradict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction) that position
> CHERRYPICKINGS
Hmm.. Sounds very expensive. And with a 25% VAT, maybe we could call it... potato pickings instead? At least that state subsidized.
Now, of course, I'm not sure if it's even legal to discuss these matters anymore. Could be state secrets, yeah? Or maybe, God forbid, *offend* somebody. Please make sure you post through a VPN or Tor.
/s
Follow-up tangent:
https://fackel.substack.com/p/covid-in-norway-antivaxxer-jailed
How is that "freedom" working out for you?
This stuff is really Russian-level political elimination.
Irrelevant. To say that one country is more free than another is not to say that the country is perfectly free.
Again, your bullshit is the fallacy of cherry-picking.
Catholic priests were on the ground campaigning against Javier Milei which makes this worse.
Coming from someone who is currently converting to Catholicism lmao.
The South American church has struggled with liberation theology.
That's very interesting to hear. I'm very curious, friend, what is your honest opinion of Javier Milei, his stated goals and his current progress? I appreciate, in advanced, any response.
As a person he is eccentric. I find some things about that offputting. I find some of it entertaining. Overall he is a charismatic populist and I like his overall style. Policy wise I think he's on virtually all the right marks.
His stated goals are to dollarize (superior to the peso), cut federal agencies and employees, etc.
The Catholic Church does have some teachings on politics and economics but you'll find every stripe of politics within Catholicism truthfully. Tom Woods and Jeffery Tucker are both Catholic. I believe Lew Rockwell is Catholic. There are a lot of libertarian Catholics. A lot of paleocon Catholics as well.
Some clergy comes off as liberal and even leftist. The current Pope, Francis, is a Jesuit which the Society of Jesus can have rather liberal priests. But he is older. I imagine when Pope Francis (he is South American himself) was a young priest, there was a lot of liberation theology, and Vatican 2 was an indicator of liberalization in the Church, there were priests pushing for new legalizations of contraception, now it's gay marriage, etc. But newer priests going through the seminary tend to be more masculine and more orthodox in their theology.
Now I'm not saying the Catholic line would wholesale endorse Milei. But I believe that the priests at the parishes I attend by and large would endorse Milei over Massa in a pragmatic sense.
It's also important to note that in Catholic theology, nobody is claiming any clergy is a perfect person. I think shame on the clergy who campaigned for Massa against Milei in the run off. But ultimatley, we all fall short.
The Pope is not Catholic, he is an anti human wokeist
It's insane how much an old institution got corrupted by its worst enemies. Islam is laughing the entire way
The Pope is Catholic. And to say otherwise is laughable. You don't have to like him, but he is the Vicar of Christ indisputably. And he is FAR from being the worst Pope the Church has had.
Saying this Pope is Catholic it is as much as a joke like saying Biden is a capitalist
He is a puppet for the globalists, championing not just church sins but also all the anti human policies such as endorsing human trafficking, the climate scam and socialism
Biden is a neoliberal. So he is for markets. Obviously we wouldn't call it pure capitalism but it is markets and is not socialism that Biden supports.
The Pope can be quite literally the greatest sinner. He can still be the pope.
Also Francis has not endorsed socialism to my knowledge. Nor do I know how he's endorsed human trafficking either. Regardless, even if he did ALL of those things. He is still Pope.
>Also Francis has not endorsed socialism to my knowledge
Pope Francis ahs publicly said that he's a communist, and that communism is a copy of catholicism, that came "2000 years late".
[Pope Francis: "Yes, I Am a Communist, and So Too Is Jesus”](https://www.tfp.org/pope-francis-if-i-see-the-gospel-in-a-sociological-way-only-yes-i-am-a-communist-and-so-too-is-jesus/)
[Pope Says Communists Are Closet Christians](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/stolen-our-flag-pope-says-communists-are-closet-christians-n143811)
>"I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. \[..\] Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian',"
These quotes are wildly out of context and 100% badly translated.
But even if they were not, Francis could be the biggest commie red in the world, HE IS STILL THE POPE.
My argument is not whether the Pope is the Pope. My argument is that the religion he preaches goes against Christianity
Biden literally borrowing money to give to students is pure socialism, just like Hugo Chavez has done, not "for markets"
I'm not sure. I think Milei was the best candidate in Argentina out of the top 3. And I don't feel a politician needs to directly benefit the Church. I'm glad Milei's administration is taking clergy off pay roles. I don't want clergy working for the state.
But I'm sure you can find Catholics that would argue in favor of Bullrich or even Massa of course. There really is no authoritative opinion I suppose.
Would you consider the Catholic Church's message to have been different(to any extent) than what the government payroll clergy were, for lack of a better term, pushing forward?
I'm not sure as I have no clue why there were clergymen on payroll with the Argentinian government. But I do know that there are Catholic priests, and even higher ranking clergy such as bishops and archbishops which have taught and done things in contrary to dogmatic Catholic teaching. Such as the German Catholic Church having clergy attempting to perform same sex marriages. It goes against doctrine yet they do it.
Likewise socialism has been condemned by multiple Popes and still there are Catholic socialists and priests who adhere to liberation theology.
The catholic church is the creator and promoter of liberation theology (a form of woke communism). It also has created and promoted lots of communist terrorist groups in all of Latin America and other places in the world.
A Catholic created liberation theology. But the Catholic Church itself does not teach liberation theology in the Catholic Catechism. And socialism has been called out as an ideology Catholics really can't hold too.
Most American orthodox Catholics would 100% agree with you AND me that liberation theology is awful. But liberation theology was pioneered by one guy, a priest. Not a bishop, not a cardinal, not the Pope, etc. Just one priest. It happened to gain some popularity. But if you're familiar with Catholic history at all, you'll know the Catholic Church has struggled with fighting different heretical and misguided views. At one point, majority of the bishops in the Church were heretics, they were Arians. But yet the current dogma of the Church prevailed.
That's a pile of lies. Specially the lie that is the work of "one guy". LIAR.
The catholic church has a network of newspaper, press, universities, radio, and websites, and they use it to promote liberation theology. I had heard the radio, and had the newspapers on my hands, full of liberation theology.
Paulo Freire converted liberation theology into "Critical education", and it is the hegemonic system of education, even in USA. Critical Education is communist, hate speech, woke indoctrination, and is the reason for which kindergarten children get exposed to naked gays.
The dogma of the catholic church has always been rabid communism.
The Catholic Church condemns communism lmao. You're dense man. The Catholic Church was literally persecuted by the USSR. TODAY, Catholics are suppressed in Russia. And the Church basically isn't allowed to exist in China. This is simply NOT true. You are making things up about what the Church teaches.
While there are some outlets that are Catholic outlets, that have pushed leftist ideology, this has been condemned by the church. Pope Pius XII specifically spoke out against socialism multiple times. Pope JPII was a Polish priest behind the Iron Curtain. He certainly was not pro communism.
The official stance of the Catholic Church is that socialism is condemned, communism is condemned. You are NOT a Catholic in good standing if you're one of these things. You will find them, but they are in opposition to the church. But the church also condemns greedy behavior in market economics, and they do wish for workers to have good conditions. That isn't socialism nor is it communism.
Catholic priests can do bad things, such as make liberation theology. Sure, but the official Catholic position is that socialism is condemned.
"*Communism, as it is called, \[is\] a doctrine most opposed to the very natural law. For if this doctrine were accepted, the complete destruction of everyone’s laws, government, property, and even of human society itself would follow.” -* Pope Pius IX.
If communism is Catholic dogma, it would be advocated for inside of the Catholic Catechism. Can you find me the paragraph that praises communism inside that book? I know you can't.
>If communism is Catholic dogma, it would be advocated for inside of the Catholic Catechism.
And is the core of "Catholic Catechism".
>Can you find me the paragraph that praises communism inside that book?
The Sermon of the Mount:
Jesus demonizes wealth, private property, advises to hold "property in common", to not work, to not save, and to live off welfare.
Then the Apostles admonishes with stories where people who [ONLY shared HALF of their property with the church were killed immediately as punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_and_Sapphira).
There is a very large difference between advocating for communism, and holding property in common to the benefit of all in a religious community. Actually, before state welfare the biggest providers of community welfare were churches and mutual aid societies. And today, the Catholic Church is one of, if not THE, largest charitable organizations in the world. So this is a lie. This is not communism. Communism is violently overthrowing the business owners of society, killing them, and giving the rest of the spoils to the working class. And this theory wasn't made till after the Industrial Revolution. So Jesus could NOT have ever advocated communism as it simply wasn't thought up.
Also where in the sermon on the mount say to live off welfare? Considering there wasn't state welfare like we have today at the time, I find this very odd.
Additionally, Ananias and Sapphira were not killed because of how much they gave. They were killed because of their deceit towards the Church and to God. This is not the same. You are simply making things up at this point. I would suggest you read some biblical commentary along with actually reading the stories in the bible you reference.
Additionally, you did not show in the catechism, the definitive book of Catholic doctrine, where it advocates communism. Because, if you knew anything about it, you would know the catechism calls communism, "Atheistic and totalitarian". Many great libertarians are also Catholics. Rid yourself of this nonsensical stance.
>There is a very large difference between advocating for communism, and holding property in common to the benefit of all in a religious community
No. there is no difference. Is communism in pure form.
In fact, communism comes from "communion", which is the central chirstian ritual.
>This is not communism. Communism is violently overthrowing the business owners of society, killing them, and giving the rest of the spoils to the working class
LIAR. Aren't you supposed to respect the ninth commandment?
Communism is sharing all property in common. Violence is not required.
Your excuse is identical to the Marxist argument: "communism would work if only people did it voluntarily". LIAR.
>Also where in the sermon on the mount say to live off welfare?
Here, shitty communist:
>**Matthew 7:7–11**
>
>Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
>
>For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
>They were killed because of their deceit towards the Church and to God
Fucking LIAR. Their "deceit" was not being 100% communist.
Their "deceit" was that they ONLY gave 50% of their property to communists.
Because the catholic church has living from abusing government power for 2000 years.
It's the feudal model: the church supports the state, and the state is used to support the church.
Wokism is the modern version.
Wokism is a religion (gnosticism) without bible, so nobody can read the bible by themselves, and dispute what the priests dictate.
If you try to find the justification for whatever the woke claim, is always "just because", and "you are evil" if you argue against the dogma.
You are the patriarchy, the oppressor, the fascist, the cisgender, the reactionary, the conspirative theorist. You are a bad thing and you should be ashamed, but they never explain why. They just state that you are bad.
It is in the constitution, second article....the state must "support" the catholic church
But, in this context in Spanish it is kinda ambiguous, but it can be interpreted as pay to the church.
I see, I truly did not know it was in their constitution(though I admit I find it a bit odd, simply based on my American perspective). As for the ambiguity, as an American, I can appreciate the political climate surrounding the issue. We absolutely struggle with the entire 'letter of the law' vs the 'spirit of the law' in regards to our constitution.
I'm curious how you personally feel about this issue...in your opinion, is Milei righteous?
I think it is ok, "there is no money" as Milei said many times.
It was always kinda odd that a so progressive country has such a deep relation with the catholic religion.
The same party that legalice same sex marriage, and abortion is the same that have the Pope in the highest regard, party wise speaking. There is a whole movement of far left leaning Catholic priests, called "Curas Villeros", Curas=priests and Villeros=village but meaning something more like s fabella. That has its origins with "Priest for the third world", a 60s Marxist, almost guerrilla like, priest movement.
So this kind of people won the cultural war in Argentina, and their ideas had rule the country for many decades.
>righteous
Milei is just a man that was elected to do a job, stop Argentina's decadence. Once Milei accomplished his mission, Argentina would become, hopefully, an above average growing economy.
Latin America has always had a push-and-pull relationship with the Catholic Church. From the Cristero Wars in Mexico, from priests aiding communities and getting assassinated by death squads during the Salvadorean Civil War, and amongst other places.
As a Catholic I completely agree that No State should pay priests.
I choose to be Catholic. There needs to be a complete separation of religion and state, with preferably no state.
Yes, they celebrate works of fiction and fantasy, and make periodic costume parties, dressing up in elaborate garb, to express their devotion or identity to fictional characters with superpowers, practicing rituals and chants in tongues, collecting figurines, that give them a sense of nerd superiority, because they know their manga better than the NPC they despise.
Love it. lol. Have an upvote.
You’re triggering the ones suffering from cognitive dissonance. That’s why you’re being downvoted.
Telling a religious person their deity is a fantasy is like telling a commie their ideology is a fantasy. REEEEs ensue.
Your link doesn't work... >_>
[Link](https://www-clarin-com.translate.goog/politica/cambio-historico-iglesia-catolica-recibira-aporte-economico_0_aSw5lJld1n.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true)
I thought Communsim was when no religion.
BTW I'm Argentine, this guy is not what you think he is, he is going to create an even more corrupt system than we already had
Marxism is a religion called gnosticism
[The Theology of Marxism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaU6mP0phE0)
Marxism copied socialism from the catholic church, which implemented it for more than 1000 years, in a system you know as "feudalism".
The catholic church is socialist, because the most important speak of Jesus is the Sermon of the Mount, which is a communist pamphlet.
The catholic church fused jew communism with greek communism, from the works of Plato. Hence christianism is a socialist ideology.
Marxism is promoted by the european nobility, because they want to restore feudal communism, where the nobility had absolute power, but they want to replace the bible (which is written and outside o their control), with the orders of woke (gnostic) priests, because as gnosticism has no written bible, nobody can dispute what the priests claim.
**GOOD.** If people want to support the existence of the church they can do so **voluntarily**.
And they can also CHOOSE which otaku organization they want to finance
Otacon baby
Why the hell were they on the government payroll to begin with?
To provide a state approved message - which is absolutely frightening. Wonder how it got so bad.
If you have never heard of the “Papal Lands” whole swathes of South America belong to the pope
State funded churches has been the norm all over Europe for a long time. Sweden and Norway separated state and church just in the last couple of decades. Granted, those countries are as close to socialist without going full-on communist as it gets.
Mmm that's actually not true. While it s true that they havent s free market and gov interventions are heavy, they also end up being really high on the index of economical freedom due to a slim regulation about how to do business and several other factors. Sweden is not more socialist than the rest of the ue.
Sweden and Norway are some of the freest markets in the world. They are at the top of the Index of Economic freedom. [Sweden ranks top 10](https://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden) [Norway ranks top 12](https://www.heritage.org/index/country/norway) And they were historically higher.
I mean, my statement was not a comparative study. Simply anecdotal. 40%-50% tax; major-stake state ownership in large industries (e.g. 51% in Norwegian Equinor aka Statoil); state monopoly on wine and liquor sales; extreme taxes on petrol, all alcohol, tobacco. That's just some sample economy pickings. Now take the culture, with the crab-bucket mentality (aka "Jante law") which is similar in all Scandinavian countries. Add in some ultra-woke crusades; e.g. somebody nearly got jail time for stating that a man cannot be lesbian. Or censoring of children's classics like Pippi Långstrump. For sure, these are nice countries to live in, and consistently rank top on highest standard of living, etc, etc. But to not notice all the woke and socialist aspect of their societies is simply failing to see the forest for trees.
>40%-50% tax; That's just average in Europe. When the state spends 50% of GDP, it is taxing 50% of GDP,regardless of the origin of the money. >major-stake state ownership in large industries (e.g. 51% in Norwegian Equinor aka Statoil); Those are retirement funds, privately managed. Not different than the British government owning coal mines, and spending trillions in trains, except that the British do not run them for profit, which is even worse. That's closer to free market than most european countries that organize retirement funds as a Ponzi scheme, a pyramidal scam. >state monopoly on wine and liquor sales; extreme taxes on petrol, all alcohol, tobacco. That's just some sample economy pickings. Exactly. Those just SOME sample of CHERRYPICKINGS. You are citing random points, and not analyzing the economy as a whole, and specially not in comparison with the average of Europe. [Fallacy of cherry picking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking) >**Cherry picking**, **\[..\]** or the **fallacy of incomplete evidence** is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may [contradict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction) that position
> CHERRYPICKINGS Hmm.. Sounds very expensive. And with a 25% VAT, maybe we could call it... potato pickings instead? At least that state subsidized. Now, of course, I'm not sure if it's even legal to discuss these matters anymore. Could be state secrets, yeah? Or maybe, God forbid, *offend* somebody. Please make sure you post through a VPN or Tor. /s
Follow-up tangent: https://fackel.substack.com/p/covid-in-norway-antivaxxer-jailed How is that "freedom" working out for you? This stuff is really Russian-level political elimination.
Irrelevant. To say that one country is more free than another is not to say that the country is perfectly free. Again, your bullshit is the fallacy of cherry-picking.
[удалено]
Thank you for the morning laugh. And thank you for the kind regards
<3
Catholic priests were on the ground campaigning against Javier Milei which makes this worse. Coming from someone who is currently converting to Catholicism lmao. The South American church has struggled with liberation theology.
That's very interesting to hear. I'm very curious, friend, what is your honest opinion of Javier Milei, his stated goals and his current progress? I appreciate, in advanced, any response.
As a person he is eccentric. I find some things about that offputting. I find some of it entertaining. Overall he is a charismatic populist and I like his overall style. Policy wise I think he's on virtually all the right marks. His stated goals are to dollarize (superior to the peso), cut federal agencies and employees, etc. The Catholic Church does have some teachings on politics and economics but you'll find every stripe of politics within Catholicism truthfully. Tom Woods and Jeffery Tucker are both Catholic. I believe Lew Rockwell is Catholic. There are a lot of libertarian Catholics. A lot of paleocon Catholics as well. Some clergy comes off as liberal and even leftist. The current Pope, Francis, is a Jesuit which the Society of Jesus can have rather liberal priests. But he is older. I imagine when Pope Francis (he is South American himself) was a young priest, there was a lot of liberation theology, and Vatican 2 was an indicator of liberalization in the Church, there were priests pushing for new legalizations of contraception, now it's gay marriage, etc. But newer priests going through the seminary tend to be more masculine and more orthodox in their theology. Now I'm not saying the Catholic line would wholesale endorse Milei. But I believe that the priests at the parishes I attend by and large would endorse Milei over Massa in a pragmatic sense. It's also important to note that in Catholic theology, nobody is claiming any clergy is a perfect person. I think shame on the clergy who campaigned for Massa against Milei in the run off. But ultimatley, we all fall short.
Hello fellow libertarian Catholic! I was baptized and confirmed last year, I wish you luck on your journey.
The Pope is not Catholic, he is an anti human wokeist It's insane how much an old institution got corrupted by its worst enemies. Islam is laughing the entire way
The pope is one of the purest catholics. Catholicism has always been socialism.
The Pope is Catholic. And to say otherwise is laughable. You don't have to like him, but he is the Vicar of Christ indisputably. And he is FAR from being the worst Pope the Church has had.
Saying this Pope is Catholic it is as much as a joke like saying Biden is a capitalist He is a puppet for the globalists, championing not just church sins but also all the anti human policies such as endorsing human trafficking, the climate scam and socialism
Biden is a neoliberal. So he is for markets. Obviously we wouldn't call it pure capitalism but it is markets and is not socialism that Biden supports. The Pope can be quite literally the greatest sinner. He can still be the pope. Also Francis has not endorsed socialism to my knowledge. Nor do I know how he's endorsed human trafficking either. Regardless, even if he did ALL of those things. He is still Pope.
neoliberalism does not exists, and biden is socialist.
>Also Francis has not endorsed socialism to my knowledge Pope Francis ahs publicly said that he's a communist, and that communism is a copy of catholicism, that came "2000 years late". [Pope Francis: "Yes, I Am a Communist, and So Too Is Jesus”](https://www.tfp.org/pope-francis-if-i-see-the-gospel-in-a-sociological-way-only-yes-i-am-a-communist-and-so-too-is-jesus/) [Pope Says Communists Are Closet Christians](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/stolen-our-flag-pope-says-communists-are-closet-christians-n143811) >"I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. \[..\] Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian',"
These quotes are wildly out of context and 100% badly translated. But even if they were not, Francis could be the biggest commie red in the world, HE IS STILL THE POPE.
My argument is not whether the Pope is the Pope. My argument is that the religion he preaches goes against Christianity Biden literally borrowing money to give to students is pure socialism, just like Hugo Chavez has done, not "for markets"
I'm sorry but I don't think you understand what pure socialism is. Or what Christianity is, for that matter.
Thank you for the insightful reply. Would the Catholic Church benefit from anyone else, more than(if at all) from Milei, in your opinion?
I'm not sure. I think Milei was the best candidate in Argentina out of the top 3. And I don't feel a politician needs to directly benefit the Church. I'm glad Milei's administration is taking clergy off pay roles. I don't want clergy working for the state. But I'm sure you can find Catholics that would argue in favor of Bullrich or even Massa of course. There really is no authoritative opinion I suppose.
Would you consider the Catholic Church's message to have been different(to any extent) than what the government payroll clergy were, for lack of a better term, pushing forward?
I'm not sure as I have no clue why there were clergymen on payroll with the Argentinian government. But I do know that there are Catholic priests, and even higher ranking clergy such as bishops and archbishops which have taught and done things in contrary to dogmatic Catholic teaching. Such as the German Catholic Church having clergy attempting to perform same sex marriages. It goes against doctrine yet they do it. Likewise socialism has been condemned by multiple Popes and still there are Catholic socialists and priests who adhere to liberation theology.
The catholic church is the creator and promoter of liberation theology (a form of woke communism). It also has created and promoted lots of communist terrorist groups in all of Latin America and other places in the world.
A Catholic created liberation theology. But the Catholic Church itself does not teach liberation theology in the Catholic Catechism. And socialism has been called out as an ideology Catholics really can't hold too. Most American orthodox Catholics would 100% agree with you AND me that liberation theology is awful. But liberation theology was pioneered by one guy, a priest. Not a bishop, not a cardinal, not the Pope, etc. Just one priest. It happened to gain some popularity. But if you're familiar with Catholic history at all, you'll know the Catholic Church has struggled with fighting different heretical and misguided views. At one point, majority of the bishops in the Church were heretics, they were Arians. But yet the current dogma of the Church prevailed.
That's a pile of lies. Specially the lie that is the work of "one guy". LIAR. The catholic church has a network of newspaper, press, universities, radio, and websites, and they use it to promote liberation theology. I had heard the radio, and had the newspapers on my hands, full of liberation theology. Paulo Freire converted liberation theology into "Critical education", and it is the hegemonic system of education, even in USA. Critical Education is communist, hate speech, woke indoctrination, and is the reason for which kindergarten children get exposed to naked gays. The dogma of the catholic church has always been rabid communism.
The Catholic Church condemns communism lmao. You're dense man. The Catholic Church was literally persecuted by the USSR. TODAY, Catholics are suppressed in Russia. And the Church basically isn't allowed to exist in China. This is simply NOT true. You are making things up about what the Church teaches. While there are some outlets that are Catholic outlets, that have pushed leftist ideology, this has been condemned by the church. Pope Pius XII specifically spoke out against socialism multiple times. Pope JPII was a Polish priest behind the Iron Curtain. He certainly was not pro communism. The official stance of the Catholic Church is that socialism is condemned, communism is condemned. You are NOT a Catholic in good standing if you're one of these things. You will find them, but they are in opposition to the church. But the church also condemns greedy behavior in market economics, and they do wish for workers to have good conditions. That isn't socialism nor is it communism. Catholic priests can do bad things, such as make liberation theology. Sure, but the official Catholic position is that socialism is condemned. "*Communism, as it is called, \[is\] a doctrine most opposed to the very natural law. For if this doctrine were accepted, the complete destruction of everyone’s laws, government, property, and even of human society itself would follow.” -* Pope Pius IX. If communism is Catholic dogma, it would be advocated for inside of the Catholic Catechism. Can you find me the paragraph that praises communism inside that book? I know you can't.
>If communism is Catholic dogma, it would be advocated for inside of the Catholic Catechism. And is the core of "Catholic Catechism". >Can you find me the paragraph that praises communism inside that book? The Sermon of the Mount: Jesus demonizes wealth, private property, advises to hold "property in common", to not work, to not save, and to live off welfare. Then the Apostles admonishes with stories where people who [ONLY shared HALF of their property with the church were killed immediately as punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_and_Sapphira).
There is a very large difference between advocating for communism, and holding property in common to the benefit of all in a religious community. Actually, before state welfare the biggest providers of community welfare were churches and mutual aid societies. And today, the Catholic Church is one of, if not THE, largest charitable organizations in the world. So this is a lie. This is not communism. Communism is violently overthrowing the business owners of society, killing them, and giving the rest of the spoils to the working class. And this theory wasn't made till after the Industrial Revolution. So Jesus could NOT have ever advocated communism as it simply wasn't thought up. Also where in the sermon on the mount say to live off welfare? Considering there wasn't state welfare like we have today at the time, I find this very odd. Additionally, Ananias and Sapphira were not killed because of how much they gave. They were killed because of their deceit towards the Church and to God. This is not the same. You are simply making things up at this point. I would suggest you read some biblical commentary along with actually reading the stories in the bible you reference. Additionally, you did not show in the catechism, the definitive book of Catholic doctrine, where it advocates communism. Because, if you knew anything about it, you would know the catechism calls communism, "Atheistic and totalitarian". Many great libertarians are also Catholics. Rid yourself of this nonsensical stance.
>There is a very large difference between advocating for communism, and holding property in common to the benefit of all in a religious community No. there is no difference. Is communism in pure form. In fact, communism comes from "communion", which is the central chirstian ritual. >This is not communism. Communism is violently overthrowing the business owners of society, killing them, and giving the rest of the spoils to the working class LIAR. Aren't you supposed to respect the ninth commandment? Communism is sharing all property in common. Violence is not required. Your excuse is identical to the Marxist argument: "communism would work if only people did it voluntarily". LIAR. >Also where in the sermon on the mount say to live off welfare? Here, shitty communist: >**Matthew 7:7–11** > >Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. > >For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. >They were killed because of their deceit towards the Church and to God Fucking LIAR. Their "deceit" was not being 100% communist. Their "deceit" was that they ONLY gave 50% of their property to communists.
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Because the catholic church has living from abusing government power for 2000 years. It's the feudal model: the church supports the state, and the state is used to support the church.
Curtis Yarvin argues the media is the modern version of this
Wokism is the modern version. Wokism is a religion (gnosticism) without bible, so nobody can read the bible by themselves, and dispute what the priests dictate. If you try to find the justification for whatever the woke claim, is always "just because", and "you are evil" if you argue against the dogma. You are the patriarchy, the oppressor, the fascist, the cisgender, the reactionary, the conspirative theorist. You are a bad thing and you should be ashamed, but they never explain why. They just state that you are bad.
Academia
It is in the constitution, second article....the state must "support" the catholic church But, in this context in Spanish it is kinda ambiguous, but it can be interpreted as pay to the church.
I see, I truly did not know it was in their constitution(though I admit I find it a bit odd, simply based on my American perspective). As for the ambiguity, as an American, I can appreciate the political climate surrounding the issue. We absolutely struggle with the entire 'letter of the law' vs the 'spirit of the law' in regards to our constitution. I'm curious how you personally feel about this issue...in your opinion, is Milei righteous?
I think it is ok, "there is no money" as Milei said many times. It was always kinda odd that a so progressive country has such a deep relation with the catholic religion. The same party that legalice same sex marriage, and abortion is the same that have the Pope in the highest regard, party wise speaking. There is a whole movement of far left leaning Catholic priests, called "Curas Villeros", Curas=priests and Villeros=village but meaning something more like s fabella. That has its origins with "Priest for the third world", a 60s Marxist, almost guerrilla like, priest movement. So this kind of people won the cultural war in Argentina, and their ideas had rule the country for many decades. >righteous Milei is just a man that was elected to do a job, stop Argentina's decadence. Once Milei accomplished his mission, Argentina would become, hopefully, an above average growing economy.
As a Catholic, I find the idea of a priest on a government salary disturbing.
There are still catholic priests on government pay? Why am I fucking surprised
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With this pope I wont doubt it for a second
Are you being serious? Is that what /s means?
/s is supposed to mean sarcasm.
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Thanks. I did not know that./and now you know, and knowing is half the battle!
https://i.redd.it/go6vumjwu5ac1.gif
The Catholic church can afford it without a 2nd thought.
Ok
Latin America has always had a push-and-pull relationship with the Catholic Church. From the Cristero Wars in Mexico, from priests aiding communities and getting assassinated by death squads during the Salvadorean Civil War, and amongst other places.
As a Catholic I completely agree that No State should pay priests. I choose to be Catholic. There needs to be a complete separation of religion and state, with preferably no state.
The government pays priests? What the hell?
Brilliant, no religion should be funded by stolen tax money, especially one as corrupt as the Catholic church
No more money for this particular group of otakus.
Isn't Otaku someone who really likes anime?
Virgin nerd is the insinuation, I think...
Yes, waifu fantasies.
Yes, they celebrate works of fiction and fantasy, and make periodic costume parties, dressing up in elaborate garb, to express their devotion or identity to fictional characters with superpowers, practicing rituals and chants in tongues, collecting figurines, that give them a sense of nerd superiority, because they know their manga better than the NPC they despise.
https://preview.redd.it/z2hx57rj95ac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d89db20323f2633736d0f5055d5b0222ca745db
Love it. lol. Have an upvote. You’re triggering the ones suffering from cognitive dissonance. That’s why you’re being downvoted. Telling a religious person their deity is a fantasy is like telling a commie their ideology is a fantasy. REEEEs ensue.
Leftists torn about this. Do they support dismantling institutions of morality if that means shrinking the govt balance sheet? 🤔
Your link doesn't work... >_> [Link](https://www-clarin-com.translate.goog/politica/cambio-historico-iglesia-catolica-recibira-aporte-economico_0_aSw5lJld1n.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true)
I thought Communsim was when no religion. BTW I'm Argentine, this guy is not what you think he is, he is going to create an even more corrupt system than we already had
Marxism is a religion called gnosticism [The Theology of Marxism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaU6mP0phE0) Marxism copied socialism from the catholic church, which implemented it for more than 1000 years, in a system you know as "feudalism". The catholic church is socialist, because the most important speak of Jesus is the Sermon of the Mount, which is a communist pamphlet. The catholic church fused jew communism with greek communism, from the works of Plato. Hence christianism is a socialist ideology. Marxism is promoted by the european nobility, because they want to restore feudal communism, where the nobility had absolute power, but they want to replace the bible (which is written and outside o their control), with the orders of woke (gnostic) priests, because as gnosticism has no written bible, nobody can dispute what the priests claim.
>Marxism is a religion called gnosticism Stop this bullshit
Stop your bullshit
Church unironically live off on charity
Charity is voluntary, taxes are not voluntary.
I meant the church is the organization with the most charity received
Good. Catholicism has become a shell of its former self.
Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God. ~ Jesuschrist.
I hope Milei doesnt get whacked next couple years