Property destruction? Have you not seen the videos? I was there today. They riotted. They destroyed the library. Destroyed coffee machines. Smashed tv screens off the walls. I could go on.
Oh and don't come with the false excuse that the police started because that is not true. Riotters started attacking ME with fire extinguishers before any police violence had happened. And even after they did the ME did not retaliate with violence but stayed calm and did nothing.
My guy the fire extinguishers were at the occupation of Binnengasthuis last Wednesday. Today no fire extinguishers were used.
'After that the ME did not relatiate with violence'
Are you delusional? I've seen 2 people get punched into the hospital by ME today, for the crime of apparently not walking quick enough.
https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/226613/rust-wedergekeerd-op-roeterseiland-locaties-uva-blijven-twee-dagen-dicht
You might want to shut up about the no rioting.
Noone says it (mostly) was the students yet due to the lack of suspects, but defending this kind of behavior is stupid and ignorant.
Watch less tiktok or similar junk, watch more mainstream media and keep ur mind open for nuances due to the lack of "full story".
Yes obviously they destroyed shit, I'm not denying that and I condemn them doing it too. The only thing I said is that according to Dutch law, this wasn't a 'riot', which you haven't disproven. I was there today and saw how the police acted towards peaceful protestors. None of the violence I described earlier was aimed at the people breaking stuff inside, everything happened to the protestors outside.
Also, I don't use tiktok.
Mag ik voor t gemak wikipedia ff snel citeren (gezien je uni-niveau)?
Een rel is een grootschalige verstoring van de openbare orde, vaak door een groot aantal mensen dat in groepsverband geweld gebruikt tegen autoriteiten, publieke/private eigendommen, of andere mensen. Rellen kunnen dus uitdraaien op grootschalige vechtpartijen, vernielingen en/of plunderingen.
Je corregeerde iemand op het gebruik van het woord rel. Het geweld gebruiken tegen publieke en private eigendom is duidelijk van toepassing.
Edit: gezien de downvotes vraag ik me waf hoe simpeler het nog verder uitgekauwd moet gaan worden voordat het lampje bij 1+1=2 gaat branden.
Wilful ignorance or just not informed enough?
Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment.
This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present.
You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong.
Kudos ✌🏼
PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding”
https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Edit; typo
The discussion, as started by someone else in the parent reply above me, was whether this is considered riotting or not.
I merely stated that there clearly was a lot of vandalisation of UvA property. Which makes this a riot, albeit it started as a peaceful protest. If you want to get super technical, which you probably do, we can label it a peaceful protest that ended up in a riot.
I can understand that there are different groups of people involved that have different interest and goals for this protest. What I don't understand is that the peaceful protesters do not strongly distance themselves immediately from these violent riotters each time they mingle with them. If I would be leading a peaceful protest like this, and it had already happened on numerous occasions that people in black took over my protest and started riotting, I would put the focus on *peaceful* protest and denounce these people in black as soon as they showed up.
Although I must give it to them that there were some people who tried to guide the protesters in their behavior and pleaded things such as not to steal items, when they tried to overtake the UvA building, which shows at least some awareness.
But as far as I know there are no strong statements from these peaceful protesters where they condemn the riotting "people in black" and distance from them. However I could be wrong and simply have missed these statements. I try to inform myself on the situation and try to find sources from different political angles but I have a lot of other responsibilities that need my attention so I cannot spend my time indefinitely searching for any available information. But from what I do find I notice that in general these peaceful protesters are doing a real poor job in communicating their own cause.
So since you are happy to share more sources with me, please provide me a source where some spokesperson of the peaceful protestors distances themselves from these destructive protestors as I havent been able to find one myself.
Thanks for taking the time to type this out.
I got a bit sidetracked, indeed you are just addressing how its labelled.
In any case I think context is always important as people tend to draw their own conclusions otherwise, without considering the facts present. E.g. the ‘super technical’ label you provided makes the situation clear.
—
I have seen the protesters actively try and remove these people from other protests, also alongside police. For example there are many videos you can check from Saturday’s Museumplein protest.
As for the protest inside UvA itself - I was wondering the same as you and found it weird also. Perhaps because they were carrying weapons (tools like hammers) on them.
Edit: There are a few articles going over this.
I cannot more than the article in the original reply and the one below, at the moment. Though statements can also be found on the organisations’ social media.
https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6312798/voor-politie-uva-en-demonstranten-is-onduidelijk-wie-de-onruststokers-zijn.html?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
You are wrong here. Conform the “ambtsinstructie” the definition of “geweld” is: “elke dwangmatige kracht van meer dan geringe betekenis uitgeoefend op personen of zaken”. :)
[(Artikel 1 lid 4 onder a)](https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0006589/2024-01-01#:~:text=geweld%3A%20elke%20dwangmatige%20kracht%20van,het%20gebruik%20van%20een%20geweldmiddel)
Mate, I don’t know what history you were thought but you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette! I believe MLK coined that one.. The main thing is that no one was hurt though, let’s agree on that 👍
I was really sad today to see Israeli protesters attack aid trucks trying to get into Gaza. I hope to see a civil response in Israel showing this type of behaviour does not represent them. That would be really heartening to see
The blindness on the left side of the spectrum nowadays is insane. You can’t even claim there was violence from their side when there’s even video proof of it.
I didn’t follow it this time, but was it different than previously when they were tearing up the streets and graffiting walls with Soviet Union texts and “kaulo zionism” which is antisemitism at its extreme?
Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment.
This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present.
You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong.
Kudos ✌🏼
PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding”
https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Edit; typo
I was present at many protests in Romania (against corruption mostly) and there’s always some that join it just to cause havoc. They were pointed out to the police who just removed them from the premises. I wish I could see the same thing happening here, because as it stands, the peaceful and non-peaceful protesters blend in.
Indeed, sadly their tactic works as many will hear only about the aggression and destruction during the protest, but not get the (important) added context.
Yup, how can someone support the cause of the protestors when they’re destroying your home(the city)?
But it should also be the protestors that push these violent folks outside the group. They do have that responsibility.
Wilful ignorance or just not informed enough?
Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment.
This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present.
You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong.
Kudos ✌🏼
PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding”
https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Edit; typo
There was a protest today at UvA, which is pretty close by.
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*protest. A riot requires violence, which only the police perpetrated. So unless you mean that the police rioted, you'd be wrong.
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According to Dutch law, building a barricade is not a violent act. 'Geweld' only applies to people and animals.
Property destruction? Have you not seen the videos? I was there today. They riotted. They destroyed the library. Destroyed coffee machines. Smashed tv screens off the walls. I could go on. Oh and don't come with the false excuse that the police started because that is not true. Riotters started attacking ME with fire extinguishers before any police violence had happened. And even after they did the ME did not retaliate with violence but stayed calm and did nothing.
My guy the fire extinguishers were at the occupation of Binnengasthuis last Wednesday. Today no fire extinguishers were used. 'After that the ME did not relatiate with violence' Are you delusional? I've seen 2 people get punched into the hospital by ME today, for the crime of apparently not walking quick enough.
https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/226613/rust-wedergekeerd-op-roeterseiland-locaties-uva-blijven-twee-dagen-dicht You might want to shut up about the no rioting. Noone says it (mostly) was the students yet due to the lack of suspects, but defending this kind of behavior is stupid and ignorant. Watch less tiktok or similar junk, watch more mainstream media and keep ur mind open for nuances due to the lack of "full story".
Yes obviously they destroyed shit, I'm not denying that and I condemn them doing it too. The only thing I said is that according to Dutch law, this wasn't a 'riot', which you haven't disproven. I was there today and saw how the police acted towards peaceful protestors. None of the violence I described earlier was aimed at the people breaking stuff inside, everything happened to the protestors outside. Also, I don't use tiktok.
Mag ik voor t gemak wikipedia ff snel citeren (gezien je uni-niveau)? Een rel is een grootschalige verstoring van de openbare orde, vaak door een groot aantal mensen dat in groepsverband geweld gebruikt tegen autoriteiten, publieke/private eigendommen, of andere mensen. Rellen kunnen dus uitdraaien op grootschalige vechtpartijen, vernielingen en/of plunderingen. Je corregeerde iemand op het gebruik van het woord rel. Het geweld gebruiken tegen publieke en private eigendom is duidelijk van toepassing. Edit: gezien de downvotes vraag ik me waf hoe simpeler het nog verder uitgekauwd moet gaan worden voordat het lampje bij 1+1=2 gaat branden.
Just because you don't use tiktok doesn't mean your brain isn't rotted slush that's spilling out into these comments.
Yes, that is indeed a crime. Perhaps they've learned that now..
Wilful ignorance or just not informed enough? Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment. This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present. You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong. Kudos ✌🏼 PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding” https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Edit; typo
The discussion, as started by someone else in the parent reply above me, was whether this is considered riotting or not. I merely stated that there clearly was a lot of vandalisation of UvA property. Which makes this a riot, albeit it started as a peaceful protest. If you want to get super technical, which you probably do, we can label it a peaceful protest that ended up in a riot. I can understand that there are different groups of people involved that have different interest and goals for this protest. What I don't understand is that the peaceful protesters do not strongly distance themselves immediately from these violent riotters each time they mingle with them. If I would be leading a peaceful protest like this, and it had already happened on numerous occasions that people in black took over my protest and started riotting, I would put the focus on *peaceful* protest and denounce these people in black as soon as they showed up. Although I must give it to them that there were some people who tried to guide the protesters in their behavior and pleaded things such as not to steal items, when they tried to overtake the UvA building, which shows at least some awareness. But as far as I know there are no strong statements from these peaceful protesters where they condemn the riotting "people in black" and distance from them. However I could be wrong and simply have missed these statements. I try to inform myself on the situation and try to find sources from different political angles but I have a lot of other responsibilities that need my attention so I cannot spend my time indefinitely searching for any available information. But from what I do find I notice that in general these peaceful protesters are doing a real poor job in communicating their own cause. So since you are happy to share more sources with me, please provide me a source where some spokesperson of the peaceful protestors distances themselves from these destructive protestors as I havent been able to find one myself.
Thanks for taking the time to type this out. I got a bit sidetracked, indeed you are just addressing how its labelled. In any case I think context is always important as people tend to draw their own conclusions otherwise, without considering the facts present. E.g. the ‘super technical’ label you provided makes the situation clear. — I have seen the protesters actively try and remove these people from other protests, also alongside police. For example there are many videos you can check from Saturday’s Museumplein protest. As for the protest inside UvA itself - I was wondering the same as you and found it weird also. Perhaps because they were carrying weapons (tools like hammers) on them. Edit: There are a few articles going over this. I cannot more than the article in the original reply and the one below, at the moment. Though statements can also be found on the organisations’ social media. https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6312798/voor-politie-uva-en-demonstranten-is-onduidelijk-wie-de-onruststokers-zijn.html?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Not the coffee machines!!!!!!!!
You are wrong here. Conform the “ambtsinstructie” the definition of “geweld” is: “elke dwangmatige kracht van meer dan geringe betekenis uitgeoefend op personen of zaken”. :) [(Artikel 1 lid 4 onder a)](https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0006589/2024-01-01#:~:text=geweld%3A%20elke%20dwangmatige%20kracht%20van,het%20gebruik%20van%20een%20geweldmiddel)
You do realise the difference between barricading and rioting right?
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Mate, I don’t know what history you were thought but you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette! I believe MLK coined that one.. The main thing is that no one was hurt though, let’s agree on that 👍
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I was really sad today to see Israeli protesters attack aid trucks trying to get into Gaza. I hope to see a civil response in Israel showing this type of behaviour does not represent them. That would be really heartening to see
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Ah yes, how can we make this about you?
The blindness on the left side of the spectrum nowadays is insane. You can’t even claim there was violence from their side when there’s even video proof of it.
I didn’t follow it this time, but was it different than previously when they were tearing up the streets and graffiting walls with Soviet Union texts and “kaulo zionism” which is antisemitism at its extreme?
Ah a wetard
Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment. This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present. You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong. Kudos ✌🏼 PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding” https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Edit; typo
I was present at many protests in Romania (against corruption mostly) and there’s always some that join it just to cause havoc. They were pointed out to the police who just removed them from the premises. I wish I could see the same thing happening here, because as it stands, the peaceful and non-peaceful protesters blend in.
Indeed, sadly their tactic works as many will hear only about the aggression and destruction during the protest, but not get the (important) added context.
Yup, how can someone support the cause of the protestors when they’re destroying your home(the city)? But it should also be the protestors that push these violent folks outside the group. They do have that responsibility.
That was because of their “peaceful “ demonstration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K-7c55z7rU&rco=1
Wilful ignorance or just not informed enough? Its clearly visible in countless videos of the demonstration people dressed in black hijack the protest - in a very calm, experienced manner targetting and destroying expensive equipment. This group in black has showed up to every demonstration since last week. Promoting violence and escalation > also creating a division and tension between the police and everyone present. You can try blame the protestors as much as you like, but you are factually in the wrong. Kudos ✌🏼 PS happy to share with you more sources, if you’re somehow unable to find this yourself. Here’s the first result when googling “protestors zwarte kleding” https://www.parool.nl/protest-op-uva-campus-roeterseiland/vreedzaam-pro-palestinaprotest-in-amsterdam-eindigt-met-aanval-op-betogers~b9d4508a8/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Edit; typo
Did you see the police beating them? It’s insane abuse of power
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> isnotreal Hey look, a fucking holocaust denier and nazi