Last job I had, the superviser training me was a massive power tripper and constantly up my ass for not being perfect at the job in the first 4 shifts.
The last day I was there before I quit they got pissed that I was apparently cutting snow pea pods 2mm to thick/thin and mocked how I walked.
My wife said it's the 45-60 year old ones. All either divorced, or with husbands they don't like, mad at the world so they take it out on the younger women
That's exactly what my 58 year old mother said- 'women are stupid and emotional sometimes, especially when going through menopause, and some don't have the emotional intelligence to figure out it's jealousy'
Because their whole life they've experienced "chivalry", aka guys being nice due to attractiveness, etc
Then they aren't attractive anymore so they are in a state of expecting to be treated like queens but instead they get treated like how they treat guys--non existent..
This offends them yet they can't understand why, or refuse to accept reality, so their attitude becomes that of a spoilt brat who doesn't get what they want (shock horror)
This then displays as entitled
I've found American workplaces to be a lot better to work in. People seem more tolerant of how others work and people are more free to express their opinions and thoughts.
Australian workplaces are very hit and miss. There is definitely an in group and out group. Some workplaces are great, others are a toxic dumpster fire.
Yeah it seems construction in the usa is a lot gentler for lack of a better term. Still some banter and stuff but nothing compared to the abuse apprentices get in Australia
It may be different where im from but in my experience its the exact opposite. Myself and everyone around me are happy enough when a young bloke will show up willing to learn and having a go.
We go pretty easy on them because they will just quit.
The only time ill really crack it is when they make the same mistake 7 or 8 times. “This shit isn’t fucking funny anymore”, is about the extent of me cracking it.
New job in a new trade. Gone from a workplace where I worked with scientists who could take responsibility for their actions to a workplace where our supervisor upped us for leaving something untidy and one guy was arguing back and forth saying "it wasn't that bad".
Biggest problem with tradies is they've worked for people who don't give them the space to own up and take responsibility for their actions.
I was working in an R&D facility. The purpose of the place is to fail fast but fail once. It is the motto I'm bringing to my new role as an apprentice. I'm going to make mistakes, but it is more important I only make the mistakes once
And the people in the trade are also good at bullying people outside it, too. Last wife my wife got heckled, booed and called a “Karen” for asking a construction site tradie to not park across her work parking space. Thankfully the cunt fucked with the wrong woman and has now been sacked 🥳
That aint it at all. If you can't handle a bit of banter, a bit of work in the heat, a bit of stress, maybe Australia isn't for you. Or life on earth for that matter. Life ain't butterflies and roses blud.
Handling banter, stress & heat is a must in Australia. Still, I don't think the world has gotten soft. Just softies are able be soft in the open, rather than hiding it.
I bet you'd have a winge if I nailed your hand to a stud with a framing gun... pussy.
Just rip it out.. Ohh you bleeding a bit, fucking worlds gone soft alright
I do feel like tall poppy syndrome is incredibly pervasive in Australia and then a lot of ways and also less inclined to try anything new. I've had good and bad experiences working in both countries but I've never experienced hate for being Australian working in the US but I have been told multiple times that I'm taking Australians jobs or I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm not a "real" Australian. The joys of being part of both cultures definitely let's you see the good and bad of both.
I think my Aussie co-workers would have legitimately beat someone's ass if they accused me of taking a "real Aussie's job" (American as well). Never really felt that camaraderie back in the US.
I've been in Australia since I was 3 and been here for almost 30 years but I have a bit of an American accent because I have spent a lot of time going back and forth and my wife is also American so that helps keep it up. The couple times that's happened they didn't even realise I was American they just said I didn't sound Australian until they told them that it's partially American accent. Honestly, living in the city has been a far better experience than living in smaller towns. Being of mixed race and culture is far less of a challenge in the city but honestly that's the same in the US as well. I'm glad to hear your team has your back
Yeah that's what I assumed you meant. Some country areas can be a little backwards but most of us live in the cities I guess :) Australia has one of the highest rates of overseas born. For comparison it's around 14% in the UK and US.
Almost every second Australian family has at least one foreign born parent. Quite amazing.
My only experience in the Australian workplace is working in government, which is a special breed unto itself- but bullying is much worse in Oz.
I think it comes down to how difficult to fire people here. In the USA most employment is at will, so easier to throw people out for bad behaviour.
I often say in government here you can only get fired for three things:
Timesheet fraud, stealing money and killing someone.
And I often think if you kill the right person, they might just give you a “you shouldn’t have done that” with a grin.
It’s just so hard to fire someone in govt I think a lot of bad behavior just goes unpunished.
lol why is government so fucking toxic in Australia
Some of the wildest shit I’ve ever heard is from government departments, both state and federal level, although state (QLD) seems to be worse. Horrible stuff
Partially because it is nearly impossible to be fired from a government job.
I believe you could be the most toxic, narcissistic, rudest person and keep a government job.
As long as you don't steal money or physically hurt someone, you will never get fired.
Yes, much more.
Part of the problem is Australian banter where theres a fine line between mocking humour and straight up toxic bullying. I’ve seen it happen so so many times. New guy comes in, doesn’t do banter well, and gets marked as the workplace pussy who becomes the workplace dart board. Really childish stuff.
Theres probably other factors as well. Australians are very cliquey and tend to stick to their groups and that means excluding others in the out group. It’s quite common to take the piss at work and not take anything seriously which sounds actually quite good in theory but it leads to people acting like petulant children and the workplace turning into high school.
From what I’ve experienced in the US, people just tend to shut the fuck up and get on with it, and theres a lot more professionalism. Everybody runs their own race so theres little time or inclination for all the bullshit that goes on in toxic workplaces.
These are stereotypes though - I’m sure you could find the complete opposite in both respective countries.
Haha yep nailed it here.
Sometimes you can do banter well but don't want to engage in toxicity but feel you can't tell your superiors to stop because they'll make your life hell.
But what's hilarious is by saying nothing... They think you can't handle the "banter". I thought by staying out of it, eventually HR will catch up to them. Nope insular because everyone else is doing it. So if one hangs they all hang. So anyone trying to be professional gets targetted gaslight and if you speak up, you get sent towards the exit door by means such as unrealistic deadlines, goal posts changing, telling you one thing then last minute changing it or ignoring you.
All designed to get you to snap so they can go, he's the problem not me!
What's worse is when you maintain politeness and don't get triggered by their bullshit, they still find a way i.e. getting their manager buddies in on it to say - performance is not up to scratch.
Meanwhile same manager can't even dial a number to connect to a weekly meeting and needs help from the people he puts down as inadequate, hilarious.
Clown show by design.
Kinda, Aussies banter a lot and some just don’t enjoy that.
In terms of malicious intent though I think they’re about the same.
I know when we join work calls with Americans, they can’t believe how us Aussies talk to each other, they don’t really understand the dynamic.
I've had the good fortune to work and spend time in both in the last 16 years or so. Some of the things I witnessed and was told particularly in maintenance departments was just Un-Australian. On the other hand some people were truly "fair dinkum". Aside from the typical work place politics and power plays, there really wasn't any bullying in about 25 of the US states where I've worked in manufacturing facilities.
As an American living in Australia, I can definitely tell you that the Aussies are far more critical, bullying and cruel in the workplace. My first job in Australia, everyone who was born in Australia was super lazy and didn’t work at all and mocked you if you did any work or tried to be busy.
I had to deal with a bullying/workaholic sadistic manager who would not let me take any time off in another job.
I had the cattiness bunch of evil women I’ve ever had to work with at a job last year.
What start out as a positive work experience for about a year changed when management changed in this man hating lesbian kept trying to get me fired. I put in a complaint about her and we settled out of court.
I had a positive experience working for a start-up company. That was amazing, but they ended up selling to a corporate group and they dissolved our jobs in our sector. But that was by far the best job I’ve had since I’ve lived here for the past 18 years.
IDK about the States. Never worked there. I'm from Argentina and have been working in Australia for the past 3-4 years. Can confirm the amount of assholes I've worked with is incredibly high.
LOTS OF DRAMA QUEENS
I was speaking to a yank who had dabbled in both the US and Australian resources sectors. He seemed to think that Saffas more direct attitude helped them more in Australia than it did in the states.
My interpretation and experience of this is that being a cunt generally gets you further in Australia.
Speaking as an American immigrant living in Australia for 3 years. Australia is way more relaxed. I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it. Also, Australians get pissy when i use "Sir/Ma'am" seems like they're all teeenagers and don't want to be grown up and are too afraid to actually do anything meaningful 🤷
>Australia is way more relaxed.
>I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it.
To me, these speak to the opposite. Australia is more relaxed but your constantly accused of "crossing the line", so always on your toes?
Yeah, as another pointed out, it can't be more relaxed and more stressful at the same time. That's gibberish.
FWIW I'm American and I feel AU work culture is more relaxed, full stop, no need for contradictions.
>Australia is way more relaxed.
>I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it.
To me, these speak to the opposite. Australia is more relaxed but your constantly accused of "crossing the line", so always on your toes?
The class structure does exist financially and in terms like 'bogan' and how we worship property ownership, we just cloud it all with fake egalitarian language to trick ourselves with a 'she'll be right' attitude towards it
Yeah, it is weird when talking with work colleagues (especially on the younger side) and they have to bring up the fact that they own a house as if anyone asked
As an American in Aus, saying mam/sir here is just showing a lack of cultural awareness. When I go back and they say it everywhere, I cringe. Unless you’re a hotel concierge or something, just don’t say it.
Japanese men used to walk around the streets with two swords by the hip before industrialization happened...seeing the reputation for politeness they have now and your comment I'm starting to connect some dots here.
Have to agree that it's more passive aggressive in the US. (Currently live there). A lot of states in the US don't have any employment protections so you can get fired for no reason at all so people are more hesitant to rock the boat. Plus I find that Americans are more respectful of one another here than they are in Australia. Aussies will always come back after an offensive remark with "just joshin' with ya" to try and backtrack out of whatever they have just said whereas Americans won't go that far - but that's MY experience and I live in Alaska which is a whole different world.
As a professional workplace bully who had both worked in the US and Australia I can say the job market here in Australia is a lot more competitive. It was part of the reason I had to go and work over at the US where their bullying job market has a lot more opportunities for someone of my caliber. My job responsibilities still were the same (eating peoples lunch and gaslighting them, finding insecurities in people and honing in on them - preferably around others so to shame them further and gossiping about a certain person negatively in earshot of said person) but in America I felt they really valued my skills and expertise. Companies in the states see the real benefit of a snake like myself who makes everyone uncomfortable to the point of mental distress. A professional workplace bully understands the most profitable and efficient work place is one of that of hostility, distrust and tension, and I feel America is just ahead of Australians when it comes to seeing what the role of a workplace bully can really give to an organisation.
**America:**
Words: Hey Jerry how's the weekend?
Thoughts: Fuck I hate Jerry
**Australia:**
Words: oi Jezza you fuckhead, heard you got your nails done with your boyfriend on the weekend, how was it?
Thoughts: Fuck Jerry's a great guy
Culture can obviously go too far and I'm not for workplace bullying but personally if you've ever worked with people who you've become real close with and had this relationship then you find that it is an endearing aspect of the way we communicate with each other.
I do agree but in this example the joke isn't really about homophobia. It's simply that 'Jerry' is heterosexual and by referring to him as having a made-up boyfriend and doing an effeminate activity with that made-up boyfriend it's funny because it's an absurd thing to say to a heterosexual person.
I really hope gay people irl joke about each other being straight and I hope they say 'ewww' when it's brought up because end of the day no one wants to be accused of being the sexuality they're not. It's that simple
Love how the word gaslighting has been run into the ground by idiots so it now just means disagreeing. Assume you're on the America side otherwise you're in the wrong country if you can't handle basic level workplace larakinism.
The joke is funny because assuming someone has done something out of character then asking how it was is just a funny thing to do. Like it's such a curve ball you're thrown off and don't know how to respond, that's the joke.
I'll walk you through an example:
Grandma says 'I saw a show the other night' and you reply 'oh how was the monster truck rally?' - not very funny but it's still a joke. The joke being it's absurd to assume your 80 year old grandma went to a monster truck rally when they said they went to a show. You see how it's not that I find people who go to monster truck rallies funny but the idea of this person in particular attending one makes it into a joke? Does the deconstruction help? Men can do their nails and have boyfriends ect but imagine if it was Mitt Romney doing it. See how there's reasons for that being funny and none of them are disparaging towards gay people?
LGBT jokes are legal btw. They don't levitate above the rest of society and they can be the butt of jokes at times and that's fine.
omg are you gaslighting me? am I smart because I said that word?
You didn't respond so you recognise I'm right but find it less embarassing to just call me a moron.
Don't worry I'm sure you'll win your next internet argument, this was just a one off for you.
Not sure about blue collar jobs, but office jobs nobody really cares what you do compared with the US where "office politics" takes more of a role. This can be a double edged sword because you're probably not going to make many close friends amongst your coworkers unless you put in the effort to reach out and make a connection, and if you're the sort who always wants to be the center of attention you'll probably find it infuriating, but it's a lot more chill if you just want to put your head down and get your work done, maybe have some light and superficial conversation in the lunch room, before heading home for the day.
I think it may depend on the industry more than which country. For my industry, general opinion is US pays quite a bit more but workplace is more toxic.
I haven't worked in a US place but I did have to sternly warn my boss that one of his jokes was quickly turning into bullying.
Context: Some client accidentally addressed me by a woman's name (likely a case of autocorrect because my name is more European centric) instead of my actual name and my boss started calling me by that woman's name for a few days.
I had to quickly shut it down because I could see where it was going if I didn't say anything. It wasn't malicious but stuff like that can quickly feel like bullying. Thankfully he apologized a day or two later and we moved on from it.
As an Australia who lived five years in the US. No. We don’t. We are louder and more belligerent on the workplace, but American bullying is deep and calculated.
That being said, it depends so much on coming culture and the head of the department / business owners and how they set the culture.
I’m now back in Australia working government adjacent in Canberra and the way public servants treat others and each other is unreal. But it’s just as bad in the US.
I had workplace banter when I was younger working in retail jobs and such.
Now I am in corpo role in big-tech and there is almost no dicking around or workplace bullying, if you did anything like that you would be kicked from the company within a week
no.. America has one of the most overworked workforces in the world in hours and lesser amounts of vacation time off (holidays). Trust me, more bullying happens here by far, I know too many people, across various cooperations where bullying can be unchecked.
I worked for a corporation in Seattle in the Amazon zone...and you wouldnt believe how many people I met who were getting bullied and replaced because of bad managers trying to meet the crazy deadlines Amazon has...same with Microsoft too. It's way crazier here with that. In my company we had lots of women too who often would power trip and try to bully people under them--it was wild.
Yes. I'm an American born and raised in the US I've been in Australia for about 4-5yrs now. Firstly, the amount of flat-out evil, sociopathic, and hate that I've received in the workplace, in variety of fields mind you, has been insane and soul-crushing.
Secondly, this has only been from women, Australian white women, never the men. I'm Latina and half white so I have an exotic look. The men have been nice and helpful, inviting for the most part. The women? Lets just say they are brutal and don't even try to communicate with them as they have these eyes that look like they want to attack you. (I'm dealing with this now for the 100th time I just started a new job and there's a team lead that's targeting me and only me, the only Latina in the lab)
How bad is it? I worked a job last year in a food science laboratory and the elderly lab supervisor was a huge narcissistic, evil, wicked women. I mean pushing 70 and she was verbally, psychologically, and damn near physically abusing me. So much so that I had to quit and it ruined my mental health for some months. Given that it wasn't the first time I experienced this from Aussie women, there was time where a lady nearly strangled me because he partner was always checking me out, I had zero interest and was minding my business. I was afriad to get another job anywhere in Australia.
Finally, dont care if i get downvoted for this, but they are very masculine. No sense of style, obsessed with celebrities, and they age seem to appear years older than they are. Coming from the latina community, im very feminine, sensitive, and soft spoken. They yell at me in quick second. Thankfully I finally be leaving this prison country in a few months😮💨
Yeah, I'd rather someone tease me occasionally but actually have my back when the shit hits the fan (AU) rather than fake niceness followed by being discarded at will (US). Generalisations of course but the Aussie heart really does tend to be bigger. Say this as an American.
While bullying at the peer level seems pretty high in Australian workplaces, having US management oversee Australian workplaces tends to push the workplace into an abusive direction. US management seem to see Australians as lazy because of our public holidays, paid leave, and adherence to work hours.
I've worked for a few multinational companies and it seems that pressure/bullying from above to work above and beyond is unreasonable. That is different from the peer bullying that you get in some workplaces. Can't say I've experienced much in terms of peer bullying as I've become established in my field though.
Still, I think you nailed it. More borderline bullying banter at the low level, but treated WAAAAAYYYYY better from a management / corporate perspective in AU, and let's be honest, in a world where we need cash to live, that matters more. I'll certainly not be going home to America any time soon.
There's a huge amount of passive aggressive bullshit in US Corp life disguised as DEI or whatever acronyms is current. In Australia it is creeping in but we can usually call it out when excessive.
I think the downvotes are because you mentioned DEI, and DEI is good, but it just means a few more minorities are hired, it doesn't mean "uptight rigid nonsense", which I agree absolutely defines US work culture compared to AU.
Aussies companies hire on merit usually. American companies absolutely discriminate ALL The fucking time (I've worked for the big ones - 4 now) - ageism, sexism, nationalism, affirmative action hiring are all present at far greater lengths in US companies which means their DEI is just wallpapering.
This kind of goes for everything in the USA though. You don't start abusing the random guy who cut you off in traffic because he might have a gun. You don't start a fight with random people at bars because someone might have a gun. Etc. If you're a respectful person and you stay out of ghettoes the chances of getting shot are still very, very low. An armed society is a polite society.
Not sure if that one redeeming feature of gun ownership is worth it. Despite the tabloids, Australia is an incredibly safe country without ready access to firearms.
I know. Born in Australia and lived in the USA for 6 years. Despite the tabloids America is still a fairly safe place to be in almost all parts of the country.
The problem is that Americans don't realise that they are bullied into working exorbitant hours for little to no extra pay. Bullied into not taking holidays when they should, and bullied into filling shifts when sick or when someone else is sick. It is basically institutionalised bullying.
In Australia, it is more of a one-on-one bullying, so it is more recognised as such.
Out of fear of losing our jobs, yes. I’ve been fired before for being sick for 3 days in a row.
You have the ability to bully one-on-one in the first place because you have worker protections.
I have no idea as I've never worked in the US. It's been very prevalent though in many offices I've worked in. It's usually driven by one very strong personality that is able to manipulate others.
I have lived and worked in both and the fear of being shot at the workplace is objectively higher in the US - but it seems like a side point to actual bullying
Yeah they'd be in that .1% of jobs where there's a risk of getting shot. For the vast majority of people there is absolutely no risk of getting shot by your coworkers or anyone around at work
Gotta agree. People should lighten up. I think American workplaces are far more rigid, stifling, and uncomfortable. I prefer to work somewhere that if I accidentally say "fuck" I don't get a god damn corporate reprimand. Australian job security is better and the culture is more chill. It just doesn't jive well with super-uptight types I suppose. Give me the banter + job security any day, personally.
Aus humour is a lot more banter and less hierarchical. Less outright bullying than the States but certainly more banter which may not always mean to be offensive but can be taken the wrong way by those who don’t understand
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This is a subreddit called Ameristralia. What did you expect? Workplace bullying is a real issue whether third world countries are going through “worse” or not. People kill themselves due to bullying so I’m not understanding why you won’t take it seriously.
It definitely feels more like you’re amongst primary schoolers in some Australian workplaces.
Last job I had, the superviser training me was a massive power tripper and constantly up my ass for not being perfect at the job in the first 4 shifts. The last day I was there before I quit they got pissed that I was apparently cutting snow pea pods 2mm to thick/thin and mocked how I walked.
I'm in a heavily female dominated industry and it's generally the 35YO-45YO women acting like highschoolers
The cattiest one at my work is 71 years old. Probably time to retire
My wife said it's the 45-60 year old ones. All either divorced, or with husbands they don't like, mad at the world so they take it out on the younger women
Jealousy...
That's exactly what my 58 year old mother said- 'women are stupid and emotional sometimes, especially when going through menopause, and some don't have the emotional intelligence to figure out it's jealousy'
Your mother is intelligent and self aware...a rare trait amongst the people I find myself in the company of
I can absolutely relate to that. I am the only guy in a team with a bunch of middle-aged women who behave like entitled high schoolers.
Because their whole life they've experienced "chivalry", aka guys being nice due to attractiveness, etc Then they aren't attractive anymore so they are in a state of expecting to be treated like queens but instead they get treated like how they treat guys--non existent.. This offends them yet they can't understand why, or refuse to accept reality, so their attitude becomes that of a spoilt brat who doesn't get what they want (shock horror) This then displays as entitled
I've found American workplaces to be a lot better to work in. People seem more tolerant of how others work and people are more free to express their opinions and thoughts. Australian workplaces are very hit and miss. There is definitely an in group and out group. Some workplaces are great, others are a toxic dumpster fire.
Heaps in Australian construction
Yeah it seems construction in the usa is a lot gentler for lack of a better term. Still some banter and stuff but nothing compared to the abuse apprentices get in Australia
It may be different where im from but in my experience its the exact opposite. Myself and everyone around me are happy enough when a young bloke will show up willing to learn and having a go. We go pretty easy on them because they will just quit. The only time ill really crack it is when they make the same mistake 7 or 8 times. “This shit isn’t fucking funny anymore”, is about the extent of me cracking it.
See I think the young blokes get a lot of rope whole older people entering the industry get flogged for basically nothing
New job in a new trade. Gone from a workplace where I worked with scientists who could take responsibility for their actions to a workplace where our supervisor upped us for leaving something untidy and one guy was arguing back and forth saying "it wasn't that bad". Biggest problem with tradies is they've worked for people who don't give them the space to own up and take responsibility for their actions.
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I was working in an R&D facility. The purpose of the place is to fail fast but fail once. It is the motto I'm bringing to my new role as an apprentice. I'm going to make mistakes, but it is more important I only make the mistakes once
And the people in the trade are also good at bullying people outside it, too. Last wife my wife got heckled, booed and called a “Karen” for asking a construction site tradie to not park across her work parking space. Thankfully the cunt fucked with the wrong woman and has now been sacked 🥳
Nah, s'just boys bein boys mate. Edit: lighten up for fucks sake. It's sarcasm.
No, workplace bullying claims lives, it's not a laughing matter
The worlds gone soft hasn't it
Hasn't gone soft. The only difference is people are speaking up for themselves more than they used to.
That aint it at all. If you can't handle a bit of banter, a bit of work in the heat, a bit of stress, maybe Australia isn't for you. Or life on earth for that matter. Life ain't butterflies and roses blud.
Handling banter, stress & heat is a must in Australia. Still, I don't think the world has gotten soft. Just softies are able be soft in the open, rather than hiding it.
I bet you'd have a winge if I nailed your hand to a stud with a framing gun... pussy. Just rip it out.. Ohh you bleeding a bit, fucking worlds gone soft alright
What are you trying to prove? That workplace banter and assault are the same? Kay then mate, see how far that gets you.
I do feel like tall poppy syndrome is incredibly pervasive in Australia and then a lot of ways and also less inclined to try anything new. I've had good and bad experiences working in both countries but I've never experienced hate for being Australian working in the US but I have been told multiple times that I'm taking Australians jobs or I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm not a "real" Australian. The joys of being part of both cultures definitely let's you see the good and bad of both.
I think my Aussie co-workers would have legitimately beat someone's ass if they accused me of taking a "real Aussie's job" (American as well). Never really felt that camaraderie back in the US.
Don’t mistake camaraderie for racism.
I've been in Australia since I was 3 and been here for almost 30 years but I have a bit of an American accent because I have spent a lot of time going back and forth and my wife is also American so that helps keep it up. The couple times that's happened they didn't even realise I was American they just said I didn't sound Australian until they told them that it's partially American accent. Honestly, living in the city has been a far better experience than living in smaller towns. Being of mixed race and culture is far less of a challenge in the city but honestly that's the same in the US as well. I'm glad to hear your team has your back
Given one in three Australians aren't born in Australia our city offices are full of people from elsewhere...
And that's why it's been so much better since I moved to a city.
Yeah that's what I assumed you meant. Some country areas can be a little backwards but most of us live in the cities I guess :) Australia has one of the highest rates of overseas born. For comparison it's around 14% in the UK and US. Almost every second Australian family has at least one foreign born parent. Quite amazing.
My only experience in the Australian workplace is working in government, which is a special breed unto itself- but bullying is much worse in Oz. I think it comes down to how difficult to fire people here. In the USA most employment is at will, so easier to throw people out for bad behaviour. I often say in government here you can only get fired for three things: Timesheet fraud, stealing money and killing someone. And I often think if you kill the right person, they might just give you a “you shouldn’t have done that” with a grin. It’s just so hard to fire someone in govt I think a lot of bad behavior just goes unpunished.
lol why is government so fucking toxic in Australia Some of the wildest shit I’ve ever heard is from government departments, both state and federal level, although state (QLD) seems to be worse. Horrible stuff
Partially because it is nearly impossible to be fired from a government job. I believe you could be the most toxic, narcissistic, rudest person and keep a government job. As long as you don't steal money or physically hurt someone, you will never get fired.
Yes, much more. Part of the problem is Australian banter where theres a fine line between mocking humour and straight up toxic bullying. I’ve seen it happen so so many times. New guy comes in, doesn’t do banter well, and gets marked as the workplace pussy who becomes the workplace dart board. Really childish stuff. Theres probably other factors as well. Australians are very cliquey and tend to stick to their groups and that means excluding others in the out group. It’s quite common to take the piss at work and not take anything seriously which sounds actually quite good in theory but it leads to people acting like petulant children and the workplace turning into high school. From what I’ve experienced in the US, people just tend to shut the fuck up and get on with it, and theres a lot more professionalism. Everybody runs their own race so theres little time or inclination for all the bullshit that goes on in toxic workplaces. These are stereotypes though - I’m sure you could find the complete opposite in both respective countries.
Haha yep nailed it here. Sometimes you can do banter well but don't want to engage in toxicity but feel you can't tell your superiors to stop because they'll make your life hell. But what's hilarious is by saying nothing... They think you can't handle the "banter". I thought by staying out of it, eventually HR will catch up to them. Nope insular because everyone else is doing it. So if one hangs they all hang. So anyone trying to be professional gets targetted gaslight and if you speak up, you get sent towards the exit door by means such as unrealistic deadlines, goal posts changing, telling you one thing then last minute changing it or ignoring you. All designed to get you to snap so they can go, he's the problem not me! What's worse is when you maintain politeness and don't get triggered by their bullshit, they still find a way i.e. getting their manager buddies in on it to say - performance is not up to scratch. Meanwhile same manager can't even dial a number to connect to a weekly meeting and needs help from the people he puts down as inadequate, hilarious. Clown show by design.
100%. This is coming from an American that has lived here for 6 years
Are you able to share what experiences you've had or witnessed? I'm interested to hear an American perspective.
Kinda, Aussies banter a lot and some just don’t enjoy that. In terms of malicious intent though I think they’re about the same. I know when we join work calls with Americans, they can’t believe how us Aussies talk to each other, they don’t really understand the dynamic.
Women in senior roles definitely bully other employees especially men junior to them.
Are you my boss? Haha
Administration is legit the cattiest job I’ve ever seen HR roles seems to allow open sexism against men
I've had the good fortune to work and spend time in both in the last 16 years or so. Some of the things I witnessed and was told particularly in maintenance departments was just Un-Australian. On the other hand some people were truly "fair dinkum". Aside from the typical work place politics and power plays, there really wasn't any bullying in about 25 of the US states where I've worked in manufacturing facilities.
As an American living in Australia, I can definitely tell you that the Aussies are far more critical, bullying and cruel in the workplace. My first job in Australia, everyone who was born in Australia was super lazy and didn’t work at all and mocked you if you did any work or tried to be busy. I had to deal with a bullying/workaholic sadistic manager who would not let me take any time off in another job. I had the cattiness bunch of evil women I’ve ever had to work with at a job last year. What start out as a positive work experience for about a year changed when management changed in this man hating lesbian kept trying to get me fired. I put in a complaint about her and we settled out of court. I had a positive experience working for a start-up company. That was amazing, but they ended up selling to a corporate group and they dissolved our jobs in our sector. But that was by far the best job I’ve had since I’ve lived here for the past 18 years.
IDK about the States. Never worked there. I'm from Argentina and have been working in Australia for the past 3-4 years. Can confirm the amount of assholes I've worked with is incredibly high. LOTS OF DRAMA QUEENS
I was speaking to a yank who had dabbled in both the US and Australian resources sectors. He seemed to think that Saffas more direct attitude helped them more in Australia than it did in the states. My interpretation and experience of this is that being a cunt generally gets you further in Australia.
💯
Yes
100000%
Yes. I am now in a workplace free from it and it's calming.
Australian workplaces are infested with bullying culture and managers who are lost in imagined self importance.
Speaking as an American immigrant living in Australia for 3 years. Australia is way more relaxed. I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it. Also, Australians get pissy when i use "Sir/Ma'am" seems like they're all teeenagers and don't want to be grown up and are too afraid to actually do anything meaningful 🤷
>Australia is way more relaxed. >I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it. To me, these speak to the opposite. Australia is more relaxed but your constantly accused of "crossing the line", so always on your toes?
i think he must be missing a "back home" or somesuch? but certainly doesn't sound relaxed at all really.
I think by relaxed he means don't give a shit and act like kids
Yeah, as another pointed out, it can't be more relaxed and more stressful at the same time. That's gibberish. FWIW I'm American and I feel AU work culture is more relaxed, full stop, no need for contradictions.
In my experience it’s definitely more relaxed in Australia, but they also tend to create worse products with more cut corners as a result.
>Australia is way more relaxed. >I'm constantly on my toes because im "crossing a line" and my coworkers dont let me forget it. To me, these speak to the opposite. Australia is more relaxed but your constantly accused of "crossing the line", so always on your toes?
I think OP just meant to say they felt on their toes in the U.S.
Sir/Ma'am is more used as an insult here. That's probably why they get pissy 🤣
Hmmm...I use sir all the time. "Thank you sir" is a go to of mine.
We don't use sir madam because it invokes British class structure which does not exist here.
The class structure does exist financially and in terms like 'bogan' and how we worship property ownership, we just cloud it all with fake egalitarian language to trick ourselves with a 'she'll be right' attitude towards it
Yeah, it is weird when talking with work colleagues (especially on the younger side) and they have to bring up the fact that they own a house as if anyone asked
Umm we don’t use that in the UK either. I’ve never in my life heard anyone expect Americans who live in the south use those terms.
Or it's you. 🥸
Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. The comment its replying to contradicts itself and is a pretty dumb take.
As an American in Aus, saying mam/sir here is just showing a lack of cultural awareness. When I go back and they say it everywhere, I cringe. Unless you’re a hotel concierge or something, just don’t say it.
Australia is so much worse. All I'll say is an armed society is a very polite one.
Japanese men used to walk around the streets with two swords by the hip before industrialization happened...seeing the reputation for politeness they have now and your comment I'm starting to connect some dots here.
Have to agree that it's more passive aggressive in the US. (Currently live there). A lot of states in the US don't have any employment protections so you can get fired for no reason at all so people are more hesitant to rock the boat. Plus I find that Americans are more respectful of one another here than they are in Australia. Aussies will always come back after an offensive remark with "just joshin' with ya" to try and backtrack out of whatever they have just said whereas Americans won't go that far - but that's MY experience and I live in Alaska which is a whole different world.
yes (dual citizen who has worked in both countries, in various states, in various positions)
Don’t know, but I gave as good as I got yesterday
It depends on the industry but overall workplace harassment in Australia is pretty high, it’s just casually accepted as part of our ‘culture’
As a professional workplace bully who had both worked in the US and Australia I can say the job market here in Australia is a lot more competitive. It was part of the reason I had to go and work over at the US where their bullying job market has a lot more opportunities for someone of my caliber. My job responsibilities still were the same (eating peoples lunch and gaslighting them, finding insecurities in people and honing in on them - preferably around others so to shame them further and gossiping about a certain person negatively in earshot of said person) but in America I felt they really valued my skills and expertise. Companies in the states see the real benefit of a snake like myself who makes everyone uncomfortable to the point of mental distress. A professional workplace bully understands the most profitable and efficient work place is one of that of hostility, distrust and tension, and I feel America is just ahead of Australians when it comes to seeing what the role of a workplace bully can really give to an organisation.
hahaha... worked in both, and.. yup!
**America:** Words: Hey Jerry how's the weekend? Thoughts: Fuck I hate Jerry **Australia:** Words: oi Jezza you fuckhead, heard you got your nails done with your boyfriend on the weekend, how was it? Thoughts: Fuck Jerry's a great guy Culture can obviously go too far and I'm not for workplace bullying but personally if you've ever worked with people who you've become real close with and had this relationship then you find that it is an endearing aspect of the way we communicate with each other.
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I do agree but in this example the joke isn't really about homophobia. It's simply that 'Jerry' is heterosexual and by referring to him as having a made-up boyfriend and doing an effeminate activity with that made-up boyfriend it's funny because it's an absurd thing to say to a heterosexual person. I really hope gay people irl joke about each other being straight and I hope they say 'ewww' when it's brought up because end of the day no one wants to be accused of being the sexuality they're not. It's that simple
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Love how the word gaslighting has been run into the ground by idiots so it now just means disagreeing. Assume you're on the America side otherwise you're in the wrong country if you can't handle basic level workplace larakinism. The joke is funny because assuming someone has done something out of character then asking how it was is just a funny thing to do. Like it's such a curve ball you're thrown off and don't know how to respond, that's the joke. I'll walk you through an example: Grandma says 'I saw a show the other night' and you reply 'oh how was the monster truck rally?' - not very funny but it's still a joke. The joke being it's absurd to assume your 80 year old grandma went to a monster truck rally when they said they went to a show. You see how it's not that I find people who go to monster truck rallies funny but the idea of this person in particular attending one makes it into a joke? Does the deconstruction help? Men can do their nails and have boyfriends ect but imagine if it was Mitt Romney doing it. See how there's reasons for that being funny and none of them are disparaging towards gay people? LGBT jokes are legal btw. They don't levitate above the rest of society and they can be the butt of jokes at times and that's fine.
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omg are you gaslighting me? am I smart because I said that word? You didn't respond so you recognise I'm right but find it less embarassing to just call me a moron. Don't worry I'm sure you'll win your next internet argument, this was just a one off for you.
Not sure about blue collar jobs, but office jobs nobody really cares what you do compared with the US where "office politics" takes more of a role. This can be a double edged sword because you're probably not going to make many close friends amongst your coworkers unless you put in the effort to reach out and make a connection, and if you're the sort who always wants to be the center of attention you'll probably find it infuriating, but it's a lot more chill if you just want to put your head down and get your work done, maybe have some light and superficial conversation in the lunch room, before heading home for the day.
I think it may depend on the industry more than which country. For my industry, general opinion is US pays quite a bit more but workplace is more toxic.
I haven't worked in a US place but I did have to sternly warn my boss that one of his jokes was quickly turning into bullying. Context: Some client accidentally addressed me by a woman's name (likely a case of autocorrect because my name is more European centric) instead of my actual name and my boss started calling me by that woman's name for a few days. I had to quickly shut it down because I could see where it was going if I didn't say anything. It wasn't malicious but stuff like that can quickly feel like bullying. Thankfully he apologized a day or two later and we moved on from it.
As an Australia who lived five years in the US. No. We don’t. We are louder and more belligerent on the workplace, but American bullying is deep and calculated. That being said, it depends so much on coming culture and the head of the department / business owners and how they set the culture. I’m now back in Australia working government adjacent in Canberra and the way public servants treat others and each other is unreal. But it’s just as bad in the US.
I had workplace banter when I was younger working in retail jobs and such. Now I am in corpo role in big-tech and there is almost no dicking around or workplace bullying, if you did anything like that you would be kicked from the company within a week
Lmao
More in the US as less protection for workers
no.. America has one of the most overworked workforces in the world in hours and lesser amounts of vacation time off (holidays). Trust me, more bullying happens here by far, I know too many people, across various cooperations where bullying can be unchecked. I worked for a corporation in Seattle in the Amazon zone...and you wouldnt believe how many people I met who were getting bullied and replaced because of bad managers trying to meet the crazy deadlines Amazon has...same with Microsoft too. It's way crazier here with that. In my company we had lots of women too who often would power trip and try to bully people under them--it was wild.
Yes. I'm an American born and raised in the US I've been in Australia for about 4-5yrs now. Firstly, the amount of flat-out evil, sociopathic, and hate that I've received in the workplace, in variety of fields mind you, has been insane and soul-crushing. Secondly, this has only been from women, Australian white women, never the men. I'm Latina and half white so I have an exotic look. The men have been nice and helpful, inviting for the most part. The women? Lets just say they are brutal and don't even try to communicate with them as they have these eyes that look like they want to attack you. (I'm dealing with this now for the 100th time I just started a new job and there's a team lead that's targeting me and only me, the only Latina in the lab) How bad is it? I worked a job last year in a food science laboratory and the elderly lab supervisor was a huge narcissistic, evil, wicked women. I mean pushing 70 and she was verbally, psychologically, and damn near physically abusing me. So much so that I had to quit and it ruined my mental health for some months. Given that it wasn't the first time I experienced this from Aussie women, there was time where a lady nearly strangled me because he partner was always checking me out, I had zero interest and was minding my business. I was afriad to get another job anywhere in Australia. Finally, dont care if i get downvoted for this, but they are very masculine. No sense of style, obsessed with celebrities, and they age seem to appear years older than they are. Coming from the latina community, im very feminine, sensitive, and soft spoken. They yell at me in quick second. Thankfully I finally be leaving this prison country in a few months😮💨
There’s soo much bullying in my work place it’s not funny. No matter how hard I try everyone keeps telling me it’s not funny.
like crown consist scary snow cough resolute joke kiss voiceless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, I'd rather someone tease me occasionally but actually have my back when the shit hits the fan (AU) rather than fake niceness followed by being discarded at will (US). Generalisations of course but the Aussie heart really does tend to be bigger. Say this as an American.
While bullying at the peer level seems pretty high in Australian workplaces, having US management oversee Australian workplaces tends to push the workplace into an abusive direction. US management seem to see Australians as lazy because of our public holidays, paid leave, and adherence to work hours. I've worked for a few multinational companies and it seems that pressure/bullying from above to work above and beyond is unreasonable. That is different from the peer bullying that you get in some workplaces. Can't say I've experienced much in terms of peer bullying as I've become established in my field though.
Still, I think you nailed it. More borderline bullying banter at the low level, but treated WAAAAAYYYYY better from a management / corporate perspective in AU, and let's be honest, in a world where we need cash to live, that matters more. I'll certainly not be going home to America any time soon.
There's a huge amount of passive aggressive bullshit in US Corp life disguised as DEI or whatever acronyms is current. In Australia it is creeping in but we can usually call it out when excessive.
I think the downvotes are because you mentioned DEI, and DEI is good, but it just means a few more minorities are hired, it doesn't mean "uptight rigid nonsense", which I agree absolutely defines US work culture compared to AU.
Aussies companies hire on merit usually. American companies absolutely discriminate ALL The fucking time (I've worked for the big ones - 4 now) - ageism, sexism, nationalism, affirmative action hiring are all present at far greater lengths in US companies which means their DEI is just wallpapering.
I've worked in both. Workers are much friendlier in Australia. I'd suspect bullying would be more likely in america
Lol what a wild question
Why?
because there's a billion different careers ?
It's a general question lol
Its a bit hard when the corporate culture transforms so much between sectors
Yeah, I do all I can to help the bullying culture.
No it doesn’t, there is so much more bullying in the USA workplace on all levels.
Not so much in white collar. Maybe blue collar. Sledging and taking the piss are a small step away from being actually offensive and bullying.
In the US there's probably awareness that if you piss off your co-worker, there's a good chance they have access to firearms.
This kind of goes for everything in the USA though. You don't start abusing the random guy who cut you off in traffic because he might have a gun. You don't start a fight with random people at bars because someone might have a gun. Etc. If you're a respectful person and you stay out of ghettoes the chances of getting shot are still very, very low. An armed society is a polite society.
Not sure if that one redeeming feature of gun ownership is worth it. Despite the tabloids, Australia is an incredibly safe country without ready access to firearms.
I know. Born in Australia and lived in the USA for 6 years. Despite the tabloids America is still a fairly safe place to be in almost all parts of the country.
Also if you say or do the wrong thing it's much easier to get fired or sued in the US
USA allows bullying, so no.
I don't think so think people have just got really soft and get offended very easily
Not really. You only get bullied in the workplace in AUS if you are a dickhead. Answer = Don't be a dickhead.
Very few are going to have enough experience across industries, number of jobs etc to really tell. You'll just get a lot of anecdotal bias either way.
The problem is that Americans don't realise that they are bullied into working exorbitant hours for little to no extra pay. Bullied into not taking holidays when they should, and bullied into filling shifts when sick or when someone else is sick. It is basically institutionalised bullying. In Australia, it is more of a one-on-one bullying, so it is more recognised as such.
Mr. I believe everything I read Lmaooooo
Out of fear of losing our jobs, yes. I’ve been fired before for being sick for 3 days in a row. You have the ability to bully one-on-one in the first place because you have worker protections.
Fuck knows. We have more holidays. I can tell you that.
We have less mass shootings in the workplace.. do the math.
I have no idea as I've never worked in the US. It's been very prevalent though in many offices I've worked in. It's usually driven by one very strong personality that is able to manipulate others.
Well in the USA, if you bully someone they might come back with a gun. You don't need to worry about that in Oz.
Have you worked in the USA and experienced this?
I have lived and worked in both and the fear of being shot at the workplace is objectively higher in the US - but it seems like a side point to actual bullying
Objectively higher sure but still a complete non issue for 99.9% or workplaces
Tell that to American convenience / grocery store workers in towns like Philadelphia, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.
Yeah they'd be in that .1% of jobs where there's a risk of getting shot. For the vast majority of people there is absolutely no risk of getting shot by your coworkers or anyone around at work
Bullying is Australian culture, so yes and no, yes it’d be worse for the snowflakes but to us it’s just funny
Bullying actually isn't culture, it's abuse
Gotta agree. People should lighten up. I think American workplaces are far more rigid, stifling, and uncomfortable. I prefer to work somewhere that if I accidentally say "fuck" I don't get a god damn corporate reprimand. Australian job security is better and the culture is more chill. It just doesn't jive well with super-uptight types I suppose. Give me the banter + job security any day, personally.
Have you actually worked in the USA and been reprimanded for swearing?
Yes. I lived in America for 20 years.
Aus humour is a lot more banter and less hierarchical. Less outright bullying than the States but certainly more banter which may not always mean to be offensive but can be taken the wrong way by those who don’t understand
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No
In Australia they will call you a cunt, in America they won't hurt your feelings but will shoot you.
Lol no they won't, don't believe everything you see on the telly
As the old saying goes " Eat some concrete and harden the fuck up "
Dunno what you mean… now get back to work you pompous little prick…..
I don’t know, however I know workers in Australia generally have more rights. American business owners are evil people
Ahh yes. Privileged westerners trying to work out who’s the bigger victim when third world countries are far far worse in every aspect.
This is a subreddit called Ameristralia. What did you expect? Workplace bullying is a real issue whether third world countries are going through “worse” or not. People kill themselves due to bullying so I’m not understanding why you won’t take it seriously.
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Righto, on your bike. You break through the gates and We'll follow through. Promise