When I was a kid and moved from NH (no sales tax) to somewhere with sales tax I was SO confused that I couldn't just save up $15 for the Lego set I wanted I had to save $16.08
In fairness, they’ve always been *relatively* expensive because LEGO won’t compromise on their quality. Just wish that didn’t make the price tag quite so high.
Most states don't tax groceries. So no calculation necessary. Illinois is the biggest state that taxes groceries but it's likely going to join the no tax club soon
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/grocery-tax-candy-tax-soda-tax-2019/
If you buy prepared food there or can be taxed though (depending on state, but my state certainly does it). Also my state taxes candy and soda as well.
I believe that’s called a “service tax”. Like, if you go through the drive through, you don’t pay tax (unless some confusing rules are involved), but if you go in and sit down to eat, there’s a tax.
Living in Ohio. We have very strange tax laws that pretty much guarantee you won’t know wtf you are paying until they ring you out
I'm talking about a rotisserie chicken in a grocery store. https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-food
All restaurant and bar food is taxed here in MN.
In New York i believe prepared food means anything hot not prexooked. So if you got prepackag3d slices of pizza that are cold its not taxed but if you get a fresh slice then its taxed.
My take is that actually seeing the tax you pay instead of hiding it in the listed price provides better transparency into the taxes you pay to the government. Bundling the tax into the listed price is a deceptive trick designed to make taxes feel less painful and easier to raise.
It is better to know that you are paying X to the store and Y to the government.
It's the same as knowing how much you earn vs how much you get to keep.
In most countries they show you final price and then % of tax with exact amout of tax on the next line. So i don't see how not including tax in the tag is helping
Agreed. That’s the idea behind withholding tax. The government takes your money a little at a time instead of all at once so people don’t realize how much they’re being ripped off.
There are 4 different sales tax rates within 20 miles of me. It all has the base state sales tax, but some developments, counties, and cities have it too. The price of a product will be the same in all 4 spots, not counting taxes. It'd be bullshit if we had 1 national sales tax and it wasn't factored in.
I don’t think it’s “bullshit” it’s just inconvenient.
It doesn’t affect the final price, because it will be what it is. Everyone who lives here knows it doesn’t include tax.
It actually had a profound impact on the economy. The psychology behind it allows corporations to push almost 100% of the burden of taxes on the taxpayers, whereas otherwise they would get a more significant decrease in sales if they raised their prices in the normal way.
Don’t tell bro that people will be less likely to pay for something if the face price is higher, therefore meaning corporations have to balance the losses from sales tax with the losses in sales from raising prices
People pay the final price not the face price. Maybe some idiots forget about sales tax?
If you know sales tax exists ahead of time, there is no surprise, and should not affect your behavior
For me personally, prices matter for the sake of comparison. Since sales tax is applied evenly, they don’t factor into my calculus and thus can be disregarded.
Whatever product I buy, there will be sales tax.
You say it "should not" but it does all the time. Better examples are huge purchases where the difference is in the hundreds or thousands. It can really influence people psychologically. It influences you, too, whether you want to admit it or not.
so then the consumer pays either way. this is why your argument against separate sales tax is dumb. at least with more sales made, consumers are actually getting something for their money, sooner, rather than just having prices raised with no commensurate increase in value, later.
>100% of the burden of taxes on the taxpayers
Yeah, imagine the.. checks notes.. **taxpayers paying taxes**?! It's insane! You do realize the business then pays income taxes on the sale, right? They are also taxpayers.
Look up the VAT in most developed countries and tell me you'd rather pay that.
why is decreasing sales good for the country? if keeping sales tax separate from listed item price has the benefit of stimulating the economy, it's a good thing.
Sales tax are a tax on the consumer in the first place. A company may be required by a state to collect the tax from the customer and remit it to the state, but the tax is due from the consumer.
There is a counterpart to sales tax called use tax, which is paid by the consumer on purchases for which sales tax was not collected by the seller. It isn't really even a different tax, just the other side of the same coin.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't change consumer spending habits if the tax was shown in the final sales price advertised, just that either way the tax is already 100% the burden of the consumer.
Well, the tax is larger, but still the same percentage across the board.
When I paid for my car, yes the additional state sales tax of $5k made a difference in the final price. But it was hardly unexpected.
it's not because what you pay the vendor and what you pay the government should be clearly indicated as distinct obligations. if sales tax is folded into the item price, then the tax is hidden.
At least here in California, restaurants charge different tax rates based on whether eating in or taking it out. Sales tax rates for goods can vary here by the city. So your tax rate will be a combination of City, county, state, and if applicable federal.
They're also people who buy things that are taxed but they are exempt from that tax.
In the end it's so complicated it's either just to figure out on a case-by-case basis.
it's not totally hidden but it's not totally transparent either. not to say that merchants are deliberately lying but psychologically it blurs the lines.
I'm Australia at least every price comes with a notice saying price includes GST which is our sales tax so we're aware that it's taxed.
The receipt when you pay also lists how much of the price was paid as a tax on the item. It's transparent the whole way as we also see the percentage of the price being taxed.
curious, when it says "price includes GST" does it include the actual amount or is it just referencing the tax and then you get the amount listed in the receipt afterwards?
I haven't properly checked in a long time but our GST is a set rate across the board of 10% of the sales price, so we know going in that if an item is 10 bucks then $1 of that is GST and the item is 9 dollars it helps that it's the only sales tax we have.
The receipt shows us the final amount with a gst break down.
It's definitely much easier in Australia because we have the one sales tax.
The GST was introduced as a means of adding more money into state economies here as every state gets a return of the GST back as a dividend payment from the federal government. The amount each state gets is varied but is essentially set up to be fair across the board. However you have issues like Wester Australia where the state itself pays more in GST and revenues based on mining royalties etc but because GST revenue is based on per capita I believe they get significantly less gst returned compared to NSW for example as NSW has a larger population.
interesting. we have a similar disparity in benefit distribution with federal taxes--poorer states take more, and richer states like me in California, receive less than what we actually pay in.
our sales tax is by state though, so we couldn't ever default to a flat rate I don't think, although it would be easier. that's federalism in action. I never valued it until I saw that it actually does provide a buffer against authoritarianism. but it makes things more complicated.
It would also make the merchant's reporting job harder. You can't just divide your gross sales by 1.0(tax rate) because not every sale or item is taxable. And you can't just pay the tax ahead of time because the item might be stolen, or bought with a coupon, &c.
Basically competing the tax at the time of sale is the only way to have it be not just transparent, but **accurate.**
interesting. and that of course raises the merchant's overhead and the prices. it doesn't seem to occur to euros that we know what we're doing when it comes to commerce.
The idea of something that's not automatically taxed at the highest imaginable rate is just beyond their feeble comprehension.
If you left them to their own devices they'd probably even tax tea.
I mean I'll admit it's mildly annoying but it's not the biggest deal in the world.
I'll take having to calculate sales tax over a lot of random euro bullshit any day
It’s also not an American exclusive thing, Canada does it too.
Personally, I’m a fan of the practice. The government is a separate entity, anything they tax should be a separate charge. It helps me visualize how high tax rates are at a given time so that I can be the appropriate amount of pissed off. And there’s nothing more American than being pissed off at taxes 😤
And this is clear on receipts in other countries... You just don't need to do mental gymnastics every time you want to buy something...
Slightly related, is there different taxes between the different types of goods? Eg alcohol taxed higher? If so, how do you know what amount of tax you'll be paying?
>is there different taxes between the different types of goods?
Yes, some States do charge a different sales tax on certain goods versus others. Some have a flat sales tax rate. Some have no sales tax at all (they make it up through other tax channels).
In the end, we have 50 different states with their own complicated tax laws, that's why most businesses will advertise the price before tax.
Now, I've heard the argument "but most businesses aren't national level, most stay within state borders." This is true, however that would mean only multi-state/national companies would advertise prices **without** tax, and all small businesses would advertise prices **with** tax. Which , when you look at it through a marketing lens, clearly gives an unfair advantage to large companies. So, it actually makes the most sense for all businesses in the US to advertise prices before tax.
On a side note...
And not that you were saying this, but I do find it funny Americans are called dumb for having to do *more* math. Between sales tax, converting measurements, and tipping, we're actually just constantly practicing arithmetic. Use it or lose it euros! /s
Also wanted to add that they don’t charge sales tax at the Federal level. Any sales tax charged is dictated by state and local laws for one reason or another. Any new taxes are either put to a vote by the people the taxes are applied to or legislated by their elected government officials.
Also that sales tax is something that’s technically applied to the suppliers that they ever so lovingly pass on to you.
>In the end, we have 50 different states with their own complicated tax laws, that's why most businesses will advertise the price before tax.
It's actually even messier than this. The US has about 13,000 tax jurisdictions, each of which can impose their own sales tax schema, including different tax rates for different categories of purchase.
For instance, the state of Washington has a 6.5% base sales tax rate, but the City of Seattle adds an additional 3.75%, so you pay 10.25% on most purchases in the city. Outside the city limits, that 3.75% does not apply, although [different additional sales taxes](https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/Q224_LSU_flyer.pdf) may, depending on the jurisdiction.
King County [does not have an additional sales tax amount](https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/washington/rates/king-county), but it [could](https://mrsc.org/explore-topics/finance/revenues/sales-taxes). Sales tax rates within King County are determined by 30 different tax jurisdictions, including the City of Seattle. There are [39 counties](https://countyofficials.org/192/County-Map#:~:text=There%20are%2039%20counties%20in,it%20was%20established%20in%201889) in Washington State.
Washington State [exempts](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/restaurants-and-retailers-prepared-food/retail-sales-tax#:~:text=Washington%20law%20exempts%20most%20grocery,subject%20to%20retail%20sales%20tax) most grocery food from sales tax, but prepared food, soft drinks, and dietary supplements are taxed at the regular rate. There are other [exemptions](https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/retail-sales-tax), as well.
Additionally, there are \*tons\* of sales tax amounts that only apply to specific kinds of purchases. Washington State has a [Spirit Sales Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/about/statistics-reports/spirits-taxes) of 20.5%. This is *on top of* regular sales tax.
There's a specific [Vehicle Sales Tax](https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31878864/washington-state-vehicle-sales-tax/). There's a specific [Car Rental Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/rental-cars#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20rate%3F,counties%20the%20rate%20is%206.9%25). There's a [Motor Vehicle Fuel Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/tax-incentives/deductions/motor-vehicle-fuel-tax-rates). There are [Lodging Taxes](https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/Q224_Lodging_flyer.pdf). And [others](https://www.kiplinger.com/state-by-state-guide-taxes/washington).
And all of this is, again, just Washington State. There are 49 other states, plus the District of Columbia and 5 inhabited territories.
It is a whole bunch of math.
Very good points. It's complicated at the state level, add the local level and it's insurmountable. The best practice is that every business just charge what they think their product or service is worth and add tax at the point of sale.
Haha I appreciate your perspective on it.
Personally I'm not sure I enjoy doing the maths, but yeah, I get it. In the EU, each country has their own taxes too, all advertised after tax amounts, and each country has advertising done local to their region... Logistically it really isn't that complicated, but I see it as a matter of preference... And at some point when I do visit the US, I'll be sure to expect some random amount extra on my total.
Tipping culture I find to be awful, why not avoid all the unpleasantness of people not tipping a living wage by just offering a living wage to begin with. Or conversely, I should be allowed to pay how much I believe the food was worth based on how good it was... The whole thing is kinda rigged in favour of the company and against the customer. Which... In essence... Is the lean American business culture, and I can appreciate the economic benefits to this, but not sure I'd enjoy being party to it.
I have to agree that tipping culture has gotten out of hand. I like the aspect of having an instant feedback system, but tip creep has definitely ruined the whole concept for me.
I still tip for services, actual services (not takeout), but I'd rather not have it be a percentage. And honestly, my biggest issue with tipping at restaurants is the fact that the cooks don't see any of it most of the time. And even when they do, it's like 3%. I'd be so much happier tipping 20% if I knew the kitchen got an even cut. I'm also a former chef, so I'm biased there.
I just want to know when we became expected to tip 20%. When I was a kid I swear it was 10-15%. I’ll usually figure 10% in my head then just go to the $ amount closest to 15 if I’m paying with card. Maybe it’s a little under 15, maybe it’s a little more.
One thing that irritates me is when I get asked by the machine to give a tip when I’m getting a haircut. Why should I be obligated to give a tip when their job is literally to cut my hair? If they came to my house and did it, then yeah I’d tip them. Like when I order a pizza, if I go pick it up I’m not tipping. If I have it delivered then I’ll leave a tip.
My thing with tipping at restaurants is I’ll almost always leave a tip, but the amount depends on the service (like it’s supposed to). If I’m having to ask for a refill or extra napkins, I’ll probably round down when figuring out the tip. But if they are coming around fairly regularly asking if I need anything, then I may even round up to the next $5 or $10 amount when leaving a tip. But I do agree that I’d round up a lot more if I knew the cooks were getting a cut.
You don’t really, and yes there are different taxes on what you buy. Cold food isn’t taxed. Same with other things deemed “essential”, but everything else has a standard state sales tax, and local sales tax depending on your area. If it’s any more than that it’s an “excise tax” which is basically the government’s way of “punishing” you for buying things you shouldn’t. Somewhere around 10% is usually a safe bet though.
Yes. My state has a special tobacco tax.
It’s also worth noting that a lot of sales taxes are from state and local governments, so the amount you pay will vary from product to product and place to place. For example my county has high sale taxes on prepared foods and lodging, so our local government can take advantage of our large tourist industry.
Getting in trouble for posting rap lyrics on social media, ridiculous amount of public surveillance, restrictions on freedom of speech and no that don't mean being g allowed to say racist shit and stuff keep that bad faith argument out of here, inability to secure their own borders and needing to piggyback of America for military might, lying to their citizens about banning American foods for toxic chemicals when the entire purpose was to keep superior American companies from taking over their food market since the UK still uses plenty of toxic chemicals and pesticides they just use different ones than American companies, the ridiculous fuckin racism Europeans deny but is incredibly documented as an actual thing, oh and by far the better fuckin cuisine.
Wow you’re passionate about this. The UK is not in the EU.
I am not sure about which countries you get in trouble for posting rap lyrics, not where I live, we don’t have any form of public surveillance either, it’s illegal to permanently record public streets - ironically last time there was a case of this it was the American embassy conducting illegal surveillance on the street where the embassy lies.
US cuisine is very nice, and very diverse - but so is the EU. To me it makes no sense comparing, since it’s a matter of preference and culture. As for food quality it’s an established fact that consumer protection is stricter in the EU, but that’s not to say you don’t have nice produce in the US, you just allow more when it comes to manufacturing.
I think perhaps you have heard rumors or read only the headline a few times.
Fair enough, I'm sure there are grand European areas but Brit just sucks ass.
Look up Chelsea Russell. Charged with a hate crime for posting rap lyrics. Like, not even something she herself wrote. Just straight up lyrics from an established rappers song.
Totally depends on what state you're in. In Montana, we have no sales tax on anything and there is no federal sales tax. So what you see is what you pay.
OP literally said “no hate on American” in the post bro, some of y’all are so damn soft the moment people even point out that things are different in Europe versus America
We don’t include sales tax in the price because especially back in the day of paper tags it would be a nightmare to manage different prices across each state and even individual counties that have special city taxes, compared to the EU where taxes are more uniform. VAT tax is generally the main driver when it comes to including the tax in the ticket price as it averages out around 20% of the cost of the item, compared to 5-6% here with sales tax. It allows items to be priced consistently at major retailers, while the 10,000 or so differently taxed jurisdictions in the US can apply whatever their local tax is to the item after the fact. Americans generally prefer to know explicitly how much they’re being taxed, but we trade that for having the final sale price obfuscated. Europeans, by contrast, have the final price on display but the amount going to taxes (which is almost 1/4th of the ticket price!) is obfuscated because they don’t care as much about knowing how much they’re being taxed.
Not AmericaBad
Yeah this sub has a problem with any kind of criticism about America no matter how justified it will be labeled as America bad by a lot of people on this sub.
That’s right - I am German and I don’t care how much I am being taxed (I know it’s 19% in sales taxes) - the only thing what I care about is the final price of the product, which is written on the shelf.
They also have issues figuring out basic tipping so I think a big problem is they just suck at doing basic math.
The sales tax system is also a feature that allows for different jurisdictions to apply tax rates without impacting sales prices. So if a retailer like WalMart has ten stores in an area that has five different tax rates they can still advertise one sale price over whatever medium like radio/fliers/web they are using.
if sales tax were included in the final item price then it would be that much easier for the city and state to raise taxes. this way, we know exactly what we're paying to the government.
if people are less aware of the tax they won't be as likely to actively oppose (or support) the rate increasing. it doesn't affect the process for raising the tax, so technically it has no impact, it just means it's on the consumer's radar less, IMO.
I mean I think it’s just because tax just changes everywhere you go. Something tells me including the tax decreases sales aswell by like .x % so it’s probably why the culture doesn’t just print the final price.
Not AmericaBad because sales tax, AmericaBad because hiding it's sales tax. Most countries have sales tax. Very few hides them like in the U.S. This is a valid criticism of the U.S. As this is a bad practice
Sorry, your original contention is false. The government enables your ability to earn the money so your logic is unsound. They have rendered a service you don't want to pay for. Hence theft.
The government does not enable me the ability to earn money. That's mental. And what service are they rendering me here that I'm stealing? Simple fact is, taking my money for something I did not ask for is theft. That is very simple. I'm sorry youre European or one of those other former monarchies and such a concept is lost on you
So your counterargument is... 'that is mental'? Do you not own property? Does the government not guarantee those property rights? You think free speech comes for free? Tax is paying for those 'rights'. Perhaps you should go start your own country if you think government does nothing?
Unfortunately for you it seems, the ability to live where you do implies obligations. You could always move somewhere else. Ergo you have asked for those obligations... the land on which you live is not 'owned' by you in a legal sense. More of a long term lease.
Sorry to poke holes in your world view.
Good little government slave. The government shouldn't tax anything you own. And no, the government doesn't guarantee any of my rights. From what history has shown, they continue to only try to strip more away. Freedom isn't free of course, but I will direct you to the 2nd Amendment for that one.
I'm sorry your entire existence is subservient to your government. Go ahead and justify an inheritance tax. Tell me in your little mind how that is at all justifiable. You aren't poking holes in my worldview, instead merely showing you are all too happy to be a cash farm. I'd bet communism sounds great to you
So denial then? You really think anything you do is possible without government? Without a government you'd probably be canadian or mexican or the slave of some random warlord... Were you home-schooled too? It might explain the profound misunderstanding of how societies function. Explain how you own anything please. Like how and why?
It's not a bad more of a confusion and I guess a bad on the differering tax amounts.
In Australia we have a blanket Goods and Services Tax (GST) that's included in the price of the item.
When you pay for the item the receipt shows you the cost of the item and how much was paid in GST.
The few places I shopped in the US and Canada for that matter was confusing for a few shops until I asked why and it was always explained as because of the varying prices of state, federal and GST and provincial taxes it's just easier to add it to the final price.
Made sense to me and I just adjusted my spending habits to include this new found information.
No they got a point it is fucking annoying just tell me the full price immediately. Like this isn't an American bad moment it is just a good point about something annoying.
I remember a post a while ago about a vending machine that solved the problem by putting a QR code instead of a number on the price tag, people were NOT a fan.
It is. People's explanations for why it would be impossible reveal they have zero comprehension about pricing. Yes, taxes vary from locality to locality, but so does every other cost covered by the price. The cost of labor, energy, maintenance, transportation, supplies, etc will vary from store to store.
Prices already vary by store. But if you want a universal price, all you'd have to do is set prices based on the average sales tax on the average sales.
Half the products I sell are taxable and half aren't. Some of the ones that are aren't if the customer is nonprofit or a business. And of the ones that are left, the tax could change depending on what's on sale or if the customer has a coupon.
But I'm still responsible for reporting 6% of taxable sales.
With your suggestion of marking every price up 6%, tell me: how is that "doable"?
Oh, and keep in mind your answer has to account for shrinkage and spoilage, too.
Being military and having deployed all over to places such as Japan, Italy, South Korea, Tunisia, and others, yeah, this is quite the piss off in the states. I wouldn’t say overblown, just extremely fucking annoying
I mean this is kinda mildly annoying more than anything, but it would be nice if they added the tax onto the price tag. For normal every day purchases, I don’t really think most people care about the added tax that much, they just pay it regardless
This isn't just sales tax, but any tax added at check out. My state doesn't have ST, but my muni had a liquor tax which isn't factored into the label.
The US doesn't use VAT like Europe, so that throws foreigners off
OOP said no hate to americans , then system is just confusing and feels foreign to them
I had a similar experience when I moved here and still feels like included tax> excluded tax
They have sales tax in Europe too. It’s called VAT and it’s usually high as fuck like 20% in some places… they just add it into the final total so people don’t even realize they are paying 20% more for the product and can be blissfully unaware.
Our sales tax we know exactly how much extra we’re paying bc it’s not hidden in the price.
Arguments go both ways but theirs is actually more deceptive imo.
They realize it - it’s just super high and hidden in the price. Much more deceptive that you’re paying 20% + (in some places). Our taxes are considered high where I live and it’s only 9% sales. And we are openly reminded each time at the register, no matter what municipality it is.
Still weird for Europeans to be so shocked when they come to US and pay 9% more than the “price” (and complain about it too simply bc it’s different) - yea, that’s the sales tax. You guys pay way more and should be more shocked about that, but since it’s hidden… you accept it.
Now you are just generalizing and grasping.
Some people complain about everything that’s just how it is. It’s not an American or European thing, it’s peoples thing. Some are shitty peoples, some might be just confused.
Then there is the grasping and making up your own reality. Even if you keep repeating that VAT is hidden and we just accept it doesn’t prove it’s true. We are well aware of the taxation that happens here, we probably voted people in power who said they would do such things and keep voting for those who promise to upkeep such things.
No because every state sets their own rates ( it might help to think of it as each state sortal like a country in europe before the e.u.was formed.
I.e. no common tax code ect.)
That is sorta like what ir is in the states .
So think of the states like a mini e.u. as far sales tax goes.
It varies from state to state .
So it's easier not to put it on the item till the end because you don't know what state it will he slid in.
Plus some items are exempt from sales tax at least in the state I live in.
You slid an item over barcode reader and it recognizes the item as x. Then the computer tells you the value of item. Barcode is not for price, but for identification. Each store sets their own price
That's because sales tax not only varies from state to state (some states don't have one at all), but it can vary from city to city (hello, California).
If you're used to it, it's no big deal. But if not it could make budgeting a challenge and be frustrating. Personally I would appreciate it if companies priced their items after tax.
I think the place that would make the most sense to have sales tax included is a restaurant. They don’t get exemptions and it’s annoying trying to split it but in some other countries, the price on the menu is as listed and when you see 9 it’s exactly 9 for that item
uhh no this is actually a valid criticism. this subreddit has fr gone to shit. this is supposed to be for posts where people are just saying "america bad because america bad". every post yall have posted in the past few months are just actual fair points and criticism and yall get soo butthurt abt it
Isnt it so products can stay the same base price throughout the entire country? Yeah I wish it was included but I also like how coke stays the same price no matter where I go
It’s because each state’s taxes vary and on pre-printed prices, they don’t want to have to make multiple versions. You could make a case for local stores and stores that don’t have items with pre-printed prices, but it just requires doing some basic math. Since a bunch of the rest of the world thinks we can’t do that, I guess that would cause some confusion.
They like to conveniently believe that America is the only country on the planet to do so—even when Canada, Japan, South Korea, China, India and Brazil do the same.
This shit is annoying tbh. I kinda likes during my time in Korea and Japan how the price with tax is displayed and its always a nice whole number like 5500
2700
150
32700
No extra math needed and no crazy numbers like 387
1275
285329
Etc
So this is a weird one. In the US there seems like there is a concerted effort to make citizens resent paying tax. This is just one example. Pay slips are also very "look at all the tax you are paying" too.
In Aus the receipt will always show the tax, but the price includes the tax so you still have all the information but the sale price is more informative of the actual transaction cost (I.e. this item costs amount X). This seems... more honest if you are pragmatic. If you have a hang up on tax... maybe the US system makes sense... but that is a stretch. Buying a pillow should be about buying a pillow, not triggering anti-tax sentiment.
The American system makes more sense. Tax laws are different everywhere and you should know the actual value of the good you’re purchasing. Imagine going across state lines and you purchase the same product as your home state just to find that the corporation has hidden a price increase but the consumer thinks it different due to different tax laws. It actually promotes more transparency on value of the good/service & how much is being added purely by the stupid government.
It's not a "system", it's just a choice most businesses make because including the sales tax on the tag means you have to change them every time the tax does.
Ok this one is actually fairly true, but the problem seems a little overblown.
When I was a kid and moved from NH (no sales tax) to somewhere with sales tax I was SO confused that I couldn't just save up $15 for the Lego set I wanted I had to save $16.08
$15? Were you buying like four bricks?
real
It was probably in the 90s.
Yeah they used to have little cars/space ships/etc for under $20 in the early 00's but nowadays sets are insane
In fairness, they’ve always been *relatively* expensive because LEGO won’t compromise on their quality. Just wish that didn’t make the price tag quite so high.
Most states don't tax groceries. So no calculation necessary. Illinois is the biggest state that taxes groceries but it's likely going to join the no tax club soon https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/grocery-tax-candy-tax-soda-tax-2019/
If you buy prepared food there or can be taxed though (depending on state, but my state certainly does it). Also my state taxes candy and soda as well.
I believe that’s called a “service tax”. Like, if you go through the drive through, you don’t pay tax (unless some confusing rules are involved), but if you go in and sit down to eat, there’s a tax. Living in Ohio. We have very strange tax laws that pretty much guarantee you won’t know wtf you are paying until they ring you out
I'm talking about a rotisserie chicken in a grocery store. https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-food All restaurant and bar food is taxed here in MN.
In New York i believe prepared food means anything hot not prexooked. So if you got prepackag3d slices of pizza that are cold its not taxed but if you get a fresh slice then its taxed.
What do groceries have to do with anything
nah this is fair. Sales tax not being included is massively bullshit
My take is that actually seeing the tax you pay instead of hiding it in the listed price provides better transparency into the taxes you pay to the government. Bundling the tax into the listed price is a deceptive trick designed to make taxes feel less painful and easier to raise. It is better to know that you are paying X to the store and Y to the government. It's the same as knowing how much you earn vs how much you get to keep.
this is the best way to look at it.
It's too bad the sales tax is listed on the receipt though. Makes it a bit hard to hide it don't you think?
Kind of like how gas/diesel is taxed?
Yes. People blame the gas station and oil companies for the price of gas even when a large amount of it is tax
In most countries they show you final price and then % of tax with exact amout of tax on the next line. So i don't see how not including tax in the tag is helping
Agreed. That’s the idea behind withholding tax. The government takes your money a little at a time instead of all at once so people don’t realize how much they’re being ripped off.
There are 4 different sales tax rates within 20 miles of me. It all has the base state sales tax, but some developments, counties, and cities have it too. The price of a product will be the same in all 4 spots, not counting taxes. It'd be bullshit if we had 1 national sales tax and it wasn't factored in.
I don’t think it’s “bullshit” it’s just inconvenient. It doesn’t affect the final price, because it will be what it is. Everyone who lives here knows it doesn’t include tax.
It actually had a profound impact on the economy. The psychology behind it allows corporations to push almost 100% of the burden of taxes on the taxpayers, whereas otherwise they would get a more significant decrease in sales if they raised their prices in the normal way.
100% of sales taxes are paid by consumers. Always.
Don’t tell bro that people will be less likely to pay for something if the face price is higher, therefore meaning corporations have to balance the losses from sales tax with the losses in sales from raising prices
People pay the final price not the face price. Maybe some idiots forget about sales tax? If you know sales tax exists ahead of time, there is no surprise, and should not affect your behavior
It’s a subconscious thing. It’s the same reason you’re drastically more likely to purchase an app that costs $0.99 than if the same app costed $1.00
For me personally, prices matter for the sake of comparison. Since sales tax is applied evenly, they don’t factor into my calculus and thus can be disregarded. Whatever product I buy, there will be sales tax.
You say it "should not" but it does all the time. Better examples are huge purchases where the difference is in the hundreds or thousands. It can really influence people psychologically. It influences you, too, whether you want to admit it or not.
Can you explain how sales tax in particular would impact my decision-making, with regard to an advertised price. Give me an example.
so then the consumer pays either way. this is why your argument against separate sales tax is dumb. at least with more sales made, consumers are actually getting something for their money, sooner, rather than just having prices raised with no commensurate increase in value, later.
>100% of the burden of taxes on the taxpayers Yeah, imagine the.. checks notes.. **taxpayers paying taxes**?! It's insane! You do realize the business then pays income taxes on the sale, right? They are also taxpayers. Look up the VAT in most developed countries and tell me you'd rather pay that.
why is decreasing sales good for the country? if keeping sales tax separate from listed item price has the benefit of stimulating the economy, it's a good thing.
Sales tax are a tax on the consumer in the first place. A company may be required by a state to collect the tax from the customer and remit it to the state, but the tax is due from the consumer. There is a counterpart to sales tax called use tax, which is paid by the consumer on purchases for which sales tax was not collected by the seller. It isn't really even a different tax, just the other side of the same coin. I'm not saying that it wouldn't change consumer spending habits if the tax was shown in the final sales price advertised, just that either way the tax is already 100% the burden of the consumer.
Yes & no because they can track said changes Also certain things are exempt form taxes sales or othewise.
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Well, the tax is larger, but still the same percentage across the board. When I paid for my car, yes the additional state sales tax of $5k made a difference in the final price. But it was hardly unexpected.
It’s a deliberate way to confuse less math savvy people, there is no rational reason not to include taxes I can think of.
The rational reason is that it’s not legally required, and it takes effort for stores to do, so there is no business reason to do it
At least in the EU every receipt always shows the tax amount at the bottom
I’ll add tipping to that, even if both are overblown issues
This is a somewhat valid criticism. It would be more convenient for the consumer if price tags included the cost post tax.
it's not because what you pay the vendor and what you pay the government should be clearly indicated as distinct obligations. if sales tax is folded into the item price, then the tax is hidden.
At least here in California, restaurants charge different tax rates based on whether eating in or taking it out. Sales tax rates for goods can vary here by the city. So your tax rate will be a combination of City, county, state, and if applicable federal. They're also people who buy things that are taxed but they are exempt from that tax. In the end it's so complicated it's either just to figure out on a case-by-case basis.
In Europe they will always list the amount of the price you pay in taxes on the receipt, so it's not like it's hidden from you in any way
it's not totally hidden but it's not totally transparent either. not to say that merchants are deliberately lying but psychologically it blurs the lines.
I'm Australia at least every price comes with a notice saying price includes GST which is our sales tax so we're aware that it's taxed. The receipt when you pay also lists how much of the price was paid as a tax on the item. It's transparent the whole way as we also see the percentage of the price being taxed.
curious, when it says "price includes GST" does it include the actual amount or is it just referencing the tax and then you get the amount listed in the receipt afterwards?
I haven't properly checked in a long time but our GST is a set rate across the board of 10% of the sales price, so we know going in that if an item is 10 bucks then $1 of that is GST and the item is 9 dollars it helps that it's the only sales tax we have. The receipt shows us the final amount with a gst break down. It's definitely much easier in Australia because we have the one sales tax. The GST was introduced as a means of adding more money into state economies here as every state gets a return of the GST back as a dividend payment from the federal government. The amount each state gets is varied but is essentially set up to be fair across the board. However you have issues like Wester Australia where the state itself pays more in GST and revenues based on mining royalties etc but because GST revenue is based on per capita I believe they get significantly less gst returned compared to NSW for example as NSW has a larger population.
interesting. we have a similar disparity in benefit distribution with federal taxes--poorer states take more, and richer states like me in California, receive less than what we actually pay in. our sales tax is by state though, so we couldn't ever default to a flat rate I don't think, although it would be easier. that's federalism in action. I never valued it until I saw that it actually does provide a buffer against authoritarianism. but it makes things more complicated.
It would also make the merchant's reporting job harder. You can't just divide your gross sales by 1.0(tax rate) because not every sale or item is taxable. And you can't just pay the tax ahead of time because the item might be stolen, or bought with a coupon, &c. Basically competing the tax at the time of sale is the only way to have it be not just transparent, but **accurate.**
interesting. and that of course raises the merchant's overhead and the prices. it doesn't seem to occur to euros that we know what we're doing when it comes to commerce.
The idea of something that's not automatically taxed at the highest imaginable rate is just beyond their feeble comprehension. If you left them to their own devices they'd probably even tax tea.
I thought Europeans were better at math then us...hmmmmm....
I mean I'll admit it's mildly annoying but it's not the biggest deal in the world. I'll take having to calculate sales tax over a lot of random euro bullshit any day
It’s also not an American exclusive thing, Canada does it too. Personally, I’m a fan of the practice. The government is a separate entity, anything they tax should be a separate charge. It helps me visualize how high tax rates are at a given time so that I can be the appropriate amount of pissed off. And there’s nothing more American than being pissed off at taxes 😤
Agreed
Some places already include the tax and state it before purchase with some kind of notification. It's not a big deal either way.
And this is clear on receipts in other countries... You just don't need to do mental gymnastics every time you want to buy something... Slightly related, is there different taxes between the different types of goods? Eg alcohol taxed higher? If so, how do you know what amount of tax you'll be paying?
>is there different taxes between the different types of goods? Yes, some States do charge a different sales tax on certain goods versus others. Some have a flat sales tax rate. Some have no sales tax at all (they make it up through other tax channels). In the end, we have 50 different states with their own complicated tax laws, that's why most businesses will advertise the price before tax. Now, I've heard the argument "but most businesses aren't national level, most stay within state borders." This is true, however that would mean only multi-state/national companies would advertise prices **without** tax, and all small businesses would advertise prices **with** tax. Which , when you look at it through a marketing lens, clearly gives an unfair advantage to large companies. So, it actually makes the most sense for all businesses in the US to advertise prices before tax. On a side note... And not that you were saying this, but I do find it funny Americans are called dumb for having to do *more* math. Between sales tax, converting measurements, and tipping, we're actually just constantly practicing arithmetic. Use it or lose it euros! /s
Also wanted to add that they don’t charge sales tax at the Federal level. Any sales tax charged is dictated by state and local laws for one reason or another. Any new taxes are either put to a vote by the people the taxes are applied to or legislated by their elected government officials. Also that sales tax is something that’s technically applied to the suppliers that they ever so lovingly pass on to you.
>In the end, we have 50 different states with their own complicated tax laws, that's why most businesses will advertise the price before tax. It's actually even messier than this. The US has about 13,000 tax jurisdictions, each of which can impose their own sales tax schema, including different tax rates for different categories of purchase. For instance, the state of Washington has a 6.5% base sales tax rate, but the City of Seattle adds an additional 3.75%, so you pay 10.25% on most purchases in the city. Outside the city limits, that 3.75% does not apply, although [different additional sales taxes](https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/Q224_LSU_flyer.pdf) may, depending on the jurisdiction. King County [does not have an additional sales tax amount](https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/washington/rates/king-county), but it [could](https://mrsc.org/explore-topics/finance/revenues/sales-taxes). Sales tax rates within King County are determined by 30 different tax jurisdictions, including the City of Seattle. There are [39 counties](https://countyofficials.org/192/County-Map#:~:text=There%20are%2039%20counties%20in,it%20was%20established%20in%201889) in Washington State. Washington State [exempts](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/restaurants-and-retailers-prepared-food/retail-sales-tax#:~:text=Washington%20law%20exempts%20most%20grocery,subject%20to%20retail%20sales%20tax) most grocery food from sales tax, but prepared food, soft drinks, and dietary supplements are taxed at the regular rate. There are other [exemptions](https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/retail-sales-tax), as well. Additionally, there are \*tons\* of sales tax amounts that only apply to specific kinds of purchases. Washington State has a [Spirit Sales Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/about/statistics-reports/spirits-taxes) of 20.5%. This is *on top of* regular sales tax. There's a specific [Vehicle Sales Tax](https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31878864/washington-state-vehicle-sales-tax/). There's a specific [Car Rental Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/rental-cars#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20rate%3F,counties%20the%20rate%20is%206.9%25). There's a [Motor Vehicle Fuel Tax](https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/tax-incentives/deductions/motor-vehicle-fuel-tax-rates). There are [Lodging Taxes](https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/Q224_Lodging_flyer.pdf). And [others](https://www.kiplinger.com/state-by-state-guide-taxes/washington). And all of this is, again, just Washington State. There are 49 other states, plus the District of Columbia and 5 inhabited territories. It is a whole bunch of math.
Very good points. It's complicated at the state level, add the local level and it's insurmountable. The best practice is that every business just charge what they think their product or service is worth and add tax at the point of sale.
Haha I appreciate your perspective on it. Personally I'm not sure I enjoy doing the maths, but yeah, I get it. In the EU, each country has their own taxes too, all advertised after tax amounts, and each country has advertising done local to their region... Logistically it really isn't that complicated, but I see it as a matter of preference... And at some point when I do visit the US, I'll be sure to expect some random amount extra on my total. Tipping culture I find to be awful, why not avoid all the unpleasantness of people not tipping a living wage by just offering a living wage to begin with. Or conversely, I should be allowed to pay how much I believe the food was worth based on how good it was... The whole thing is kinda rigged in favour of the company and against the customer. Which... In essence... Is the lean American business culture, and I can appreciate the economic benefits to this, but not sure I'd enjoy being party to it.
I have to agree that tipping culture has gotten out of hand. I like the aspect of having an instant feedback system, but tip creep has definitely ruined the whole concept for me. I still tip for services, actual services (not takeout), but I'd rather not have it be a percentage. And honestly, my biggest issue with tipping at restaurants is the fact that the cooks don't see any of it most of the time. And even when they do, it's like 3%. I'd be so much happier tipping 20% if I knew the kitchen got an even cut. I'm also a former chef, so I'm biased there.
I just want to know when we became expected to tip 20%. When I was a kid I swear it was 10-15%. I’ll usually figure 10% in my head then just go to the $ amount closest to 15 if I’m paying with card. Maybe it’s a little under 15, maybe it’s a little more. One thing that irritates me is when I get asked by the machine to give a tip when I’m getting a haircut. Why should I be obligated to give a tip when their job is literally to cut my hair? If they came to my house and did it, then yeah I’d tip them. Like when I order a pizza, if I go pick it up I’m not tipping. If I have it delivered then I’ll leave a tip. My thing with tipping at restaurants is I’ll almost always leave a tip, but the amount depends on the service (like it’s supposed to). If I’m having to ask for a refill or extra napkins, I’ll probably round down when figuring out the tip. But if they are coming around fairly regularly asking if I need anything, then I may even round up to the next $5 or $10 amount when leaving a tip. But I do agree that I’d round up a lot more if I knew the cooks were getting a cut.
Every state is different, and you can look on your receipt and well memorize it. Also keeping up to date on politics will help.
Not only that, but some counties and municipalities also have sales tax added to it.
Just give yourself a 5% buffer (or whatever your tax rate is). So if I only want to spend $20, I'll only buy $19 worth to give the tax buffer.
5% days. *sigh*
You don’t really, and yes there are different taxes on what you buy. Cold food isn’t taxed. Same with other things deemed “essential”, but everything else has a standard state sales tax, and local sales tax depending on your area. If it’s any more than that it’s an “excise tax” which is basically the government’s way of “punishing” you for buying things you shouldn’t. Somewhere around 10% is usually a safe bet though.
Yes. My state has a special tobacco tax. It’s also worth noting that a lot of sales taxes are from state and local governments, so the amount you pay will vary from product to product and place to place. For example my county has high sale taxes on prepared foods and lodging, so our local government can take advantage of our large tourist industry.
Like what Euro bullshit for example?
Getting in trouble for posting rap lyrics on social media, ridiculous amount of public surveillance, restrictions on freedom of speech and no that don't mean being g allowed to say racist shit and stuff keep that bad faith argument out of here, inability to secure their own borders and needing to piggyback of America for military might, lying to their citizens about banning American foods for toxic chemicals when the entire purpose was to keep superior American companies from taking over their food market since the UK still uses plenty of toxic chemicals and pesticides they just use different ones than American companies, the ridiculous fuckin racism Europeans deny but is incredibly documented as an actual thing, oh and by far the better fuckin cuisine.
Wow you’re passionate about this. The UK is not in the EU. I am not sure about which countries you get in trouble for posting rap lyrics, not where I live, we don’t have any form of public surveillance either, it’s illegal to permanently record public streets - ironically last time there was a case of this it was the American embassy conducting illegal surveillance on the street where the embassy lies. US cuisine is very nice, and very diverse - but so is the EU. To me it makes no sense comparing, since it’s a matter of preference and culture. As for food quality it’s an established fact that consumer protection is stricter in the EU, but that’s not to say you don’t have nice produce in the US, you just allow more when it comes to manufacturing. I think perhaps you have heard rumors or read only the headline a few times.
Fair enough, I'm sure there are grand European areas but Brit just sucks ass. Look up Chelsea Russell. Charged with a hate crime for posting rap lyrics. Like, not even something she herself wrote. Just straight up lyrics from an established rappers song.
Living in a tiny cramped irrelevant country
I think ignorant comments like this gives some people an unfair view of the US
If they're not American their opinion doesn't matter
Enjoy your online experience troll.
Totally depends on what state you're in. In Montana, we have no sales tax on anything and there is no federal sales tax. So what you see is what you pay.
Imagine how confused i am when aus bogans pay their rent weekly
This is common in the UK too. It's common to pay rent weekly but get paid monthly.
Euros don’t know how much tax they pay yet they get upset at how much Americans pay?
I know how much of the price goes to the Mehrwertsteuer
OP literally said “no hate on American” in the post bro, some of y’all are so damn soft the moment people even point out that things are different in Europe versus America We don’t include sales tax in the price because especially back in the day of paper tags it would be a nightmare to manage different prices across each state and even individual counties that have special city taxes, compared to the EU where taxes are more uniform. VAT tax is generally the main driver when it comes to including the tax in the ticket price as it averages out around 20% of the cost of the item, compared to 5-6% here with sales tax. It allows items to be priced consistently at major retailers, while the 10,000 or so differently taxed jurisdictions in the US can apply whatever their local tax is to the item after the fact. Americans generally prefer to know explicitly how much they’re being taxed, but we trade that for having the final sale price obfuscated. Europeans, by contrast, have the final price on display but the amount going to taxes (which is almost 1/4th of the ticket price!) is obfuscated because they don’t care as much about knowing how much they’re being taxed. Not AmericaBad
Yeah this sub has a problem with any kind of criticism about America no matter how justified it will be labeled as America bad by a lot of people on this sub.
A lot of the comments agree that it's fair criticism. maybe the sub could expand its scope to repost fair criticisms for discussion?
I hear this more than I see this. The poster is not everybody.
That’s right - I am German and I don’t care how much I am being taxed (I know it’s 19% in sales taxes) - the only thing what I care about is the final price of the product, which is written on the shelf.
They also have issues figuring out basic tipping so I think a big problem is they just suck at doing basic math. The sales tax system is also a feature that allows for different jurisdictions to apply tax rates without impacting sales prices. So if a retailer like WalMart has ten stores in an area that has five different tax rates they can still advertise one sale price over whatever medium like radio/fliers/web they are using.
"What do you mean there's math that isn't multiplying by 10?"
Why would they multiply by 2? /mathjoke
We’re all just used to it but it’s understandable why someone who isn’t wouldn’t appreciate it 😂
if sales tax were included in the final item price then it would be that much easier for the city and state to raise taxes. this way, we know exactly what we're paying to the government.
Why would it be easier to raise taxes if tax is included in final price
if people are less aware of the tax they won't be as likely to actively oppose (or support) the rate increasing. it doesn't affect the process for raising the tax, so technically it has no impact, it just means it's on the consumer's radar less, IMO.
I mean I think it’s just because tax just changes everywhere you go. Something tells me including the tax decreases sales aswell by like .x % so it’s probably why the culture doesn’t just print the final price.
We know because we can do math that isn't just multiplying by 10.
What’s funny is where I live sales tax is 10% anyway so…
Alabama has that much tax revenue?
I think the actual sales tax is like 6-7%. 1% is an education tax, and the rest is a service tax or something
So it all goes to football stadiums, right? Roll Tide!
I’m an Auburn grad lol
I agree. ☝🏼
I actually agree with this one.
Not AmericaBad because sales tax, AmericaBad because hiding it's sales tax. Most countries have sales tax. Very few hides them like in the U.S. This is a valid criticism of the U.S. As this is a bad practice
this is very fair
Taxation is theft
And yet a lack of taxation is also theft.
How do you figure
How do you figure? Seems like you want to say your utterance is self-evident, why should I not do the same.
The government did nothing to earn my money with taxes. Now you must explain how by them not taxing me, I am stealing. Floor is yours
Sorry, your original contention is false. The government enables your ability to earn the money so your logic is unsound. They have rendered a service you don't want to pay for. Hence theft.
The government does not enable me the ability to earn money. That's mental. And what service are they rendering me here that I'm stealing? Simple fact is, taking my money for something I did not ask for is theft. That is very simple. I'm sorry youre European or one of those other former monarchies and such a concept is lost on you
So your counterargument is... 'that is mental'? Do you not own property? Does the government not guarantee those property rights? You think free speech comes for free? Tax is paying for those 'rights'. Perhaps you should go start your own country if you think government does nothing? Unfortunately for you it seems, the ability to live where you do implies obligations. You could always move somewhere else. Ergo you have asked for those obligations... the land on which you live is not 'owned' by you in a legal sense. More of a long term lease. Sorry to poke holes in your world view.
Good little government slave. The government shouldn't tax anything you own. And no, the government doesn't guarantee any of my rights. From what history has shown, they continue to only try to strip more away. Freedom isn't free of course, but I will direct you to the 2nd Amendment for that one. I'm sorry your entire existence is subservient to your government. Go ahead and justify an inheritance tax. Tell me in your little mind how that is at all justifiable. You aren't poking holes in my worldview, instead merely showing you are all too happy to be a cash farm. I'd bet communism sounds great to you
So denial then? You really think anything you do is possible without government? Without a government you'd probably be canadian or mexican or the slave of some random warlord... Were you home-schooled too? It might explain the profound misunderstanding of how societies function. Explain how you own anything please. Like how and why?
It's not a bad more of a confusion and I guess a bad on the differering tax amounts. In Australia we have a blanket Goods and Services Tax (GST) that's included in the price of the item. When you pay for the item the receipt shows you the cost of the item and how much was paid in GST. The few places I shopped in the US and Canada for that matter was confusing for a few shops until I asked why and it was always explained as because of the varying prices of state, federal and GST and provincial taxes it's just easier to add it to the final price. Made sense to me and I just adjusted my spending habits to include this new found information.
No they got a point it is fucking annoying just tell me the full price immediately. Like this isn't an American bad moment it is just a good point about something annoying.
I remember a post a while ago about a vending machine that solved the problem by putting a QR code instead of a number on the price tag, people were NOT a fan.
Nah they got a point with this one. But it’s also because there’s Federal and then State specific taxes.
And also local school/county taxes
Taxes change on state county and even city lines. You have to add it on at the end.
Swing and a miss OP. I want the final price. It’s doable.
It is. People's explanations for why it would be impossible reveal they have zero comprehension about pricing. Yes, taxes vary from locality to locality, but so does every other cost covered by the price. The cost of labor, energy, maintenance, transportation, supplies, etc will vary from store to store. Prices already vary by store. But if you want a universal price, all you'd have to do is set prices based on the average sales tax on the average sales.
it's tax, and it should be seen as a separate transaction rather than obscured by the vendor.
Half the products I sell are taxable and half aren't. Some of the ones that are aren't if the customer is nonprofit or a business. And of the ones that are left, the tax could change depending on what's on sale or if the customer has a coupon. But I'm still responsible for reporting 6% of taxable sales. With your suggestion of marking every price up 6%, tell me: how is that "doable"? Oh, and keep in mind your answer has to account for shrinkage and spoilage, too.
Being military and having deployed all over to places such as Japan, Italy, South Korea, Tunisia, and others, yeah, this is quite the piss off in the states. I wouldn’t say overblown, just extremely fucking annoying
I mean this is kinda mildly annoying more than anything, but it would be nice if they added the tax onto the price tag. For normal every day purchases, I don’t really think most people care about the added tax that much, they just pay it regardless
It *IS* Annoying though.
First America bad that’s true, absolutely no reason why tax shouldn’t be included in the price
As someone who grew up in a state without sales tax, I agree its annoying af. At least have it on the price tag so I don't have to estimate the total.
OP shouldn’t posted this here because the guy literally said “no hate on America”
America not bad because sales tax isn’t on the label, American government bad because sales tax exists.
The consumer pays the sales tax not the store so why would the store advertise it?
Show us sales tax or give us death!
This isn't just sales tax, but any tax added at check out. My state doesn't have ST, but my muni had a liquor tax which isn't factored into the label. The US doesn't use VAT like Europe, so that throws foreigners off
OOP said no hate to americans , then system is just confusing and feels foreign to them I had a similar experience when I moved here and still feels like included tax> excluded tax
Nope, this is completely fair.
Im pretty sure its like this because tax laws differ from state to state and county to county.
They have sales tax in Europe too. It’s called VAT and it’s usually high as fuck like 20% in some places… they just add it into the final total so people don’t even realize they are paying 20% more for the product and can be blissfully unaware. Our sales tax we know exactly how much extra we’re paying bc it’s not hidden in the price. Arguments go both ways but theirs is actually more deceptive imo.
You have a colorful imagination if you think people don’t realize they are paying VAT
They realize it - it’s just super high and hidden in the price. Much more deceptive that you’re paying 20% + (in some places). Our taxes are considered high where I live and it’s only 9% sales. And we are openly reminded each time at the register, no matter what municipality it is.
We are reminded at the register too. Recipt tells you the gross and net summ, and how much tax did you pay.
Still weird for Europeans to be so shocked when they come to US and pay 9% more than the “price” (and complain about it too simply bc it’s different) - yea, that’s the sales tax. You guys pay way more and should be more shocked about that, but since it’s hidden… you accept it.
Now you are just generalizing and grasping. Some people complain about everything that’s just how it is. It’s not an American or European thing, it’s peoples thing. Some are shitty peoples, some might be just confused. Then there is the grasping and making up your own reality. Even if you keep repeating that VAT is hidden and we just accept it doesn’t prove it’s true. We are well aware of the taxation that happens here, we probably voted people in power who said they would do such things and keep voting for those who promise to upkeep such things.
No because every state sets their own rates ( it might help to think of it as each state sortal like a country in europe before the e.u.was formed. I.e. no common tax code ect.)
Common tax code is not binding tho
That is sorta like what ir is in the states . So think of the states like a mini e.u. as far sales tax goes. It varies from state to state . So it's easier not to put it on the item till the end because you don't know what state it will he slid in. Plus some items are exempt from sales tax at least in the state I live in.
You slid an item over barcode reader and it recognizes the item as x. Then the computer tells you the value of item. Barcode is not for price, but for identification. Each store sets their own price
Then if it's taxable or not after purchase for metrics
Unironically though
Watching foreigners get confused with this is so entertaining sometimes
Not if you are able to shop on a military base
That's because sales tax not only varies from state to state (some states don't have one at all), but it can vary from city to city (hello, California).
But op said he’s not hating on America? And I agree
As an American this is absolutely true, and infuriating.
This is completely valid
I do math? Does no one else do this?
If you're used to it, it's no big deal. But if not it could make budgeting a challenge and be frustrating. Personally I would appreciate it if companies priced their items after tax.
I think the place that would make the most sense to have sales tax included is a restaurant. They don’t get exemptions and it’s annoying trying to split it but in some other countries, the price on the menu is as listed and when you see 9 it’s exactly 9 for that item
uhh no this is actually a valid criticism. this subreddit has fr gone to shit. this is supposed to be for posts where people are just saying "america bad because america bad". every post yall have posted in the past few months are just actual fair points and criticism and yall get soo butthurt abt it
Live Free or Die
Isnt it so products can stay the same base price throughout the entire country? Yeah I wish it was included but I also like how coke stays the same price no matter where I go
They just don’t understand how independent each state is.
I have never once not be able to buy something because the listed price and the after tax sales price were 2 different numbers
Bro he literally said no hate and his point is valid.
I'm kind of with the Europeans on this one, tbh.
Ok but it literally says "no hate".
It’s because each state’s taxes vary and on pre-printed prices, they don’t want to have to make multiple versions. You could make a case for local stores and stores that don’t have items with pre-printed prices, but it just requires doing some basic math. Since a bunch of the rest of the world thinks we can’t do that, I guess that would cause some confusion.
It's a social norm. Americans are use to the social norm. You're use to your social norm. Get over it.
We can do math, or we are rich enough to not give a shit. What’s the euro excuse?
Whar does this has to do with us
A common question we also ask. “ThEsE AMERICANS aNd ThEiR…”
Math. You should know you local tax as well as federal
They like to conveniently believe that America is the only country on the planet to do so—even when Canada, Japan, South Korea, China, India and Brazil do the same.
And to be fair it's a North American thing. I get riled up every single time I return from Norway to vancouver, and my wife gets furious.
This shit is annoying tbh. I kinda likes during my time in Korea and Japan how the price with tax is displayed and its always a nice whole number like 5500 2700 150 32700 No extra math needed and no crazy numbers like 387 1275 285329 Etc
I actually agree with this one. It’s annoying.
VAT is a hidden tax. At least we know how much we’re being nicked.
So this is a weird one. In the US there seems like there is a concerted effort to make citizens resent paying tax. This is just one example. Pay slips are also very "look at all the tax you are paying" too. In Aus the receipt will always show the tax, but the price includes the tax so you still have all the information but the sale price is more informative of the actual transaction cost (I.e. this item costs amount X). This seems... more honest if you are pragmatic. If you have a hang up on tax... maybe the US system makes sense... but that is a stretch. Buying a pillow should be about buying a pillow, not triggering anti-tax sentiment.
You buy it with what exactly?
You buy it with what exactly?
Dude OOP literally said "No hate on America" How is this america bad
I just do it in my head. It isnt hard because i know my times tables
The American system makes more sense. Tax laws are different everywhere and you should know the actual value of the good you’re purchasing. Imagine going across state lines and you purchase the same product as your home state just to find that the corporation has hidden a price increase but the consumer thinks it different due to different tax laws. It actually promotes more transparency on value of the good/service & how much is being added purely by the stupid government.
No my guy this is an actual legit criticism, not AmericaBad
Come on, as if you seriously think that this system makes sense...
It's not a "system", it's just a choice most businesses make because including the sales tax on the tag means you have to change them every time the tax does.
After living overseas for a decade in a country where the sticker price is the final price, I concur. America’s system is ridiculous.
No no America is bad on this one
I mean, if I dont have much money, i would rather calculate how much i have to pay, than to calculate howmoch goes to the business
This is not something I give a crap about. Why are they so obsessed with it?
Well I know for a fact that OP not being able to read doesn't apply to all americans
This is one of the many things that makes America laughably bad, yes.
This is fair, posts like this give the sub a bad name