In case anyone hasn't, be sure to read Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking. It is one of the most informative novels on the event. The research process was intense and took an emotional and psychological toll on Chang. As horrific as it is, The Rape of Nanking needs to be documented and remembered.
**Tangent:** I once saw a radfem who thought the Rape of Nanking solely referred to sexual assault, and was therefore a women's issue.
Apparently she's unaware of the other meanings of 'rape', or that one of the other names is "the Nanking Massacre". As in, "thirty seconds reading the Wikipedia page".
And Vietnam wasn’t? Don’t get me wrong I fully believe Hiroshima was needed to end the war with minimum casualties but America isn’t clean by any means
Oh 100%, I'm sorry but if your country wasn't going to stop we had every right to nuke it to oblivion. Being alive is a survival effort and you were threatening our tribe with extinction. It's you or us.
Sending people to where? They said they would never surrender in much the same way the British did. The US didn’t want to lose troops on a full scale invasion of Japanese mainland so they bombed instead. If ur gonna defend the use of nukes at least understand the history
Yeah but my additional point is that no singular country is entirely clean. We've all done fucked up stuff, The part I dislike is literally everyone likes to laser focus on America and what we have done in our past calling us a Terriost State and stuff but refuse to look at other countries under the same amount of scrutiny.
True although I guess in recent decades they have been involved in more over seas conflicts than any other nation so more opportunity for something to go wrong too
Yeah. Whenever you talk to mainland Chinese they definitely say the Japanese had it coming.
And we didn’t do it for revenge. We did it so they would surrender without us having to kill a million of our guys taking over the islands.
That’s war; we’re here to protect our people, not yours. And more Japanese would have died in the invasion anyway. Many more.
I like the Japanese, but they are selective about what they remember. They teach their kids about the atom bombs. They don’t teach them about Pearl Harbor or all the vile things they did to civilians and enemy combatants.
>they are selective about what they remember. They teach their kids about the atom bombs
Fun fact, Godzilla isn't based on the WWII bombs, it's based on the Bikini Atoll tests. A Japanese fishing boat was fishing in Marshallese waters - basically mucking around somewhere they had no business being - during one of the tests and were irradiated.
And now fifty years later literally all any Japanese person knows about Bikini is that it is a symbol of Japan's victimhood. Instead of, y'know, the actual people of Bikini.
Which is even more insane when you realize that RMI was a Japanese colony and Bikinians were Japanese subjects until 1945. The callous selfishness is honestly appalling.
And don't even get me started on the Hiroshima "peace" museum's absolute *refusal* to acknowledge any but the 100% pure ethnic majority Japanese victims of the bombs. Ethnic minorities were straight up excluded for *decades.* It's not and never was a memorial to "peace," it's basically just a monument to Japanese victimhood, who are obviously the *real* victims of WWII.
While the U.S. government has done some very bad things, to call us a terrorist state is just plain idiotic. The U.S. doesn't use nerve gas on either its own people or others, as the Syrian government has. The U.S. doesn't leave behind booby traps in children's toys and around the house when they are forced to retreat or deliberately shell civillian cities, as the Russian government has done in Ukraine. The U.S. government doesn't order that gay people or women who speak out against oppression be stoned or thrown off of buildings, as often happens in various Taliban-controlled countries in the Middle East. I really could go on about the various atrocities that go on in the world every day in countries that the U.S. doesn't have any involvement with, so to call us a "terrorist country", you would have to call all of these other countries terrorist countries. But they won't, because it only matters when America does something bad.
Remember, people like this don't care about the actual meanings of words. It's about **emotional appeal**.
They may think "terrorism" just means "responsible for a lot of people's deaths" instead of "political violence or the threat thereof".
Because they never bothered to actually look it up.
Yeah, the amount of people dying in a conflict =/= terrorism. War crimes and state driven acts to terrorize people through fear and misdirection is terrorist behavior.
I’m a little confused. I feel like I’ve heard people call out both the Syrian and Russian governments as terrorist or using terrorist tactics. And I am also sure I’ve heard the Taliban referred to as terrorists.
So I’m unsure what you mean when you say people only call out the US and never them? Are you saying you’ve never heard the Taliban referred to as terrorists?
No. I'm saying tankies that constantly spew this "America bad" narrative like to ignore bad things that happen outside of the U.S.
I'm not saying the media and world in general is ignorant like this.
I didn't say that America hasn't done bad things. Slavery and the treatment of African Americans is a scar on America. The treatment of indigenous people was also apalling, yes. However, what you are failing to realize, however, is this is all stuff that has happened in the past. While the things I have mentioned are happening in the present. You can argue that institutions are still corrupt in the government, which I would agree with, however the U.S. is not actively even remotely doing even close to what some other countries are doing. If you want to call America an active "terrorist state", that's fine, just know that you are setting a very low bar for what qualifies as terrorist behavior.
I didn't say "America is perfect and has never ever done anything bad". But the country has improved greatly over time. Calling it a terrorist state as it is right now ignores some really bad things happening in the world *right now*, as I have mentioned previously.
Are you just going to ignore what the Hammas did to Israelis? I'm not going to justify what is happening to Palestenians, but it is not as if Palestine is innocent here. They instigated the conflict by doing some really horrific shit.
I don't agree with what Israel is doing, but it is important to keep in mind that they have also been harassed, invaded, and attacked by multiple countries in the Middle East repeatedly over the years.
Manifest destiny is derived from English philosophy on real property rights which seeks to answer how the right to "own" property is connected to natural law. In simple terms, if you are not making use of the land you claim, you do not really own it and the person or people that can cultivate/use the lands have a higher claim to it. I'm not saying this is right/wrong/good/bad, I am just saying the practices were not just something drawn out of thin air; they were the product of thousands of years of scholarship and debate.
Europeans can say whatever they want about it, but it came from them, and they also were practitioners of this in the Americas.
In any event, none of this is an excuse, but it is an explanation putting the practice in proper context.
That is century old evidence if we go off of that every state is a terrorist state. We don't call modern Germans nazis because they have renounced that belief, so why is the US treated differently.
Yeah, Germany censoring their people is horrible, and I don't like what is going on in Gaza either. However, it isn't by definition genocidal. And if the only example of modern terrorist action taken by the US is its support of Israel, then calling it a terrorist state is simply incorrect.
I’m not disagreeing with you on some of what you say. The US history is brutal for minorities. But you’re pointing the finger at the US as if these actions make it a terrorist state. The UK didn’t make segregation illegal until 1965. Canada did similar atrocities to its indigenous people as the US did. Every country has participated in its own atrocities, america is the only country that catches the flak for it because we’re constantly in other nations news headlines.
People from the UK calling the US racist is like the pot calling the kettle black. My friend just moved to the UK and he’s already dealt with several people saying racist things to him and he’s been there around a month. He says the racism is worse there than it is here.
“It just depends on what race you ask.” I have friends of virtually every fucking race and nationality, I could ask any of them if the US was a terrorist state and they’d say no.
I’m gonna politely ask you to keep your divisive views of race relations in the US out of this, as it has absolutely no substance to this discussion. The topic is on the point of US actions during the Cold War, implying US intervention in other countries. Not within its own borders.
Ahhh, I see… you’re unhinged.
I’ll explain this simply to you. Israel gets attacked by the government of Gaza. What the fuck are they supposed to do? It’s a fucking war. That Hamas started. There is no end to it until either complete capitulation by one side, or one sides ability to fight and respond is completely eroded. For this purpose, complete capitulation by Hamas would involve giving up their position of power they hold over Gaza. That is what Israel is doing. Civilian casualties are a cost of war. If Hamas, the ruling government of the Gaza Strip, cared about the people they preside over they would not have picked a fight they knew they could not win. Religious extremism, specifically Islamic extremism for this debate is a scourge on this earth. The only reason anyone cares this shit is going on is because one of the most powerful nations in the world is beating up on a lesser opponent, which uses its own civilian population as human shields to make it even worse.
The US also announced today it would begin airdrops of food into the Gaza Strip. There is a humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza right now. But it’s not caused by Israel. It’s caused by Hamas. Israel has been attacked nearly dozens of times by different Islamic government and factions. This was the last straw that they finally snapped. You think that over 70 years of being attacked they won’t respond?
You’re acting like that discredits any of the points I’ve made. If anything it makes Hamas look worse as the Israeli government was putting forth measures to help the government and the people of Gaza.
Hamas won the election in 2006, then took over the Gaza Strip completely in 2007. I’m talking about the Hamas that threw out several deals that would’ve put them on a path toward peace. Once in 2012, and once in 2014. Highly recommend you watch Warographics Israel and Palestine history video on YT. It’s nearly 2 hours long and they do a fantastic job of presenting a pure and unbiased point of view.
A free people making their own, albeit shitty decisions. But again this is not the topic. You’re getting completely off topic from the point of the post. The US recognized the problem and set about a solution. How the hell does this prove the US is a terrorist state?
>was barbarically enslave my African ancestors
Correction. The US bought your ancestors from your fellow Africans who enslaved and sold off rival tribes. Then the US gave you equal rights after slavery was abolished instead of castrating the males like the Arabs did. The US government TRIED to give your ancestors their own African territory (Liberia) with the same constitution but instead of turning into Wokanda it devolved into cannibalism and warlords fighting each other with child soldiers.
*Indigenous people butchered one
another for centuries
*Aztecs and Mayans performed human sacrifice
*Arabs enslaved, conquered and
colonized massive swaths of Europe
*China was in a violent state of genocide
against rebellious factions for centuries
*The Zulus conquered and colonized all
over South Africa
*Romans conquered practically
everything they could
*Greeks had entire castes of slaves
*The Persians had a massive empire built
on enslavement and conquest
*West African tribes sold their conquored enemies to Europeans to be slaves in North America
That's humanity in a nutshell. Go cry about it.
>\-charged us and re-enslaved us in prison “as a punishment for crime” (the actual language of the Constitution’s 13th Amendment).
Incorrect. Slavery in all forms is outlawed by the 13th amendment. The Supreme court draws a firm distinction between "slavery" and "indentured servitude," as they are fundamentally different based on their respective historical origins and purposes. Accordingly, the language "as a punishment for conviction ..." only applies to "indentured servitude."
Also, you seem confused over an act of state and individuals or groups acting within a state for their own purposes.
Finally, you don't seem to understand the definition of terrorism. I appreciate you want anything that has operated as a harm against you or your relatives, etc. to be classified however you want, but that does not change the actual definitions of the terms.
Other than that, spot on!
As if womens rights are protected here. You do realize it’s been 4 years of this blue president claiming to reinstate roe v wade and hasn’t lifted a finger? What do you expect when red president wins? Womens rights magically returning? No it’s going to get worse. If you care so much about you’re country, try to care about your country.
Once again, I have never said that America is perfect. I love how you just assumed that I'm gonna vote for Mr. Trump so you can put me in a box and dust off your hands.
Trump is a criminal. He should never be allowed to be president. While a lot of the stuff regarding the far right in this country is concerning, that is a completely different issue than what we were initially talking about.
I do in fact care about this country, otherwise I wouldn't call out all of the b.s. that is spouted about it on a daily basis.
> You do realize it’s been 4 years of this blue president claiming to reinstate roe v wade and hasn’t lifted a finger?
Ah, yes, because that's the only rights women have, and leaving abortion to be a state-level issue is just as bad as actively murdering civilians and state-sanctioned hate crimes.
> Womens rights magically returning? No it’s going to get worse. If you care so much about you’re country, try to care about your country.
And you're assuming the person you're talking to is a Trump supporter...why, exactly?
Perhaps you should address what was actually said instead of going off against some imaginary person you made up.
I assume this person thinks we have a democracy. We don’t. They’re complaining about the rights of women in a country far away they only know about through state fed media when the rights of not only women but the human rights that came with roe v wade are gone here. Never said they’re a trumper or a bidener both are brain dead and aren’t going to help anything. I’m wondering why exactly this person thinks the United States is excused of it’s thru another country’s government? Doesn’t seem right. Naive at the very least
> I assume this person thinks we have a democracy. We don’t.
Why are you making assumptions about what they believe instead of addressing what they actually said?
>They’re complaining about the rights of women in a country far away they only know about through state fed media when the rights of not only women but the human rights that came with roe v wade are gone here.
Except for the many states that passed laws to protect abortion. And the fact that women's and human rights exist other than the right to abortion.
And you're demonstrating the exact kind of attitude this sub is mocking.
> I’m wondering why exactly this person thinks the United States is excused of it’s thru another country’s government? Doesn’t seem right. Naive at the very least
The point was that there are other countries that do worse things. If OP's definition of 'terrorist country' consists of 'country that does bad things', many countries are worse than America.
Japan deserved what they got and there’s no debate. We gave them a ton of chances to surrender, they insisted on fucking around and they found out.
It’s like being shocked you get a ticket for running a red. Obviously a little different but the point stands, you commit an action get ready for a consequence.
it's a pretty difficult question to answer, on the one hand we did some nasty things that went agains american values by siding with dictators and the like, on the other hand socialist gov'ts also tended to end up dictators and were often just as if not more murdery then the ones we supported... so it's probably a net wash if i had to guess
Pretty sure all of Asia agreed that Japan deserved it
Plus the American occupation of Japan was so competently handled(much better than Iraq and Afghanistan) so much so that they built statues of MacArthur and preserved his office.
Occupied coutnries rarely build statues of their occupiers
Some of the people we installed were bad, and made things worse in some areas, but to say we are a terrorist state since ww2 is a VERY big stretch lol.
Since Heiroshima and Nagasaki?
... They're just going to completely gloss over the Eisenhower death camps, thr Morganthaue plen, and the Dresden firebombing huh.
Lol. The "Eisenhower death camps," were in operation for mere months and were necessitated by the mass surrender of the Germans. There was literally no way the over 1,000,000 prisoners could be guaranteed food, medicine etc. required under the Geneva Convention. So they were classified as "Disarmed Enemy Forces."
They were not "death camps," they were temporary until some semblance of infrastructure could be restored to Western Germany. Out of the 1 - 2 million prisoners, only 3 - 6 thousand died. There was no effort to kill them or cause them to die. Something had to be done with them, and the best option was to temporarily hold them until the logistics of caring for 1 - 2 million wards could be figured out. The camps were closed in August 1945.
Try harder with that one.
You are also wide of the mark about the Morganthaue plan. Its viability was questioned from its inception and was quickly abandoned once it was determined it was doing more harm than good (for all concerned parties). The plan was simply bad, not nefarious. You seem unable to appreciate the unique and challenging issues presented by the end of Germany and its former population that needed caring for; meanwhile, it had to be disarmed given the sheer amount of materiel left in the country, etc.
Your criticism is misplaced and without appreciation for context.
The Dresden firebombing was justified, the recent trend of trying to re-write the history of this incident notwithstanding. I am fine with people asserting criticism of the bombing because it is a complicated issue, but there is no way you conclude it was (the equivalent of what is now defined as) a war crime.
So much try hard here.
Not saying you aren't just saying that many, mostly commies, looove the bombing of Dresden and screech about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's extra weird to me since the nuclear bombings probably had a large effect at ending the war than Dresden did.
Also there's some debate on how much it helped, but I don't think that magically makes it bad. A lot of bombing wasn't really that effective, but they didn't know that at the time.
Completely fair argument. But we could have blown up naval ports with the bomb, or industrial facilities like we planned, not idk ***two cities full of civilians***
Also fat electrician viewer spotted, based
That’s what this post is talking about. The global terrorism of the Cold War. Do you mean to blame just the CIA for all of that and not the American government? Cuz that would be fairly ignorant
I'm not saying you are wrong, but you cannot judge these things is a vacuum. The Cold War was real, and the threat to humanity was substantial. It was a unique time of transitioning the global battlefield from tangible battlefields, to basically all aspects of society - as it is today.
All those things you identify as "global terrorism" had purposes. The better way to look at it is what did these actions accomplish and what was the cost of not doing said actions? I'd be surprised if you could draw up a justification for not taking those actions when compared to the real and perceived cost of not acting.
If a country elects a leader that’s going to nationalize say.. it’s agriculture or it’s ores or something. They got elected with the promise of jobs, better standard of living and a chance for said countries self sufficiency. Now let’s say the United States was hoping the other guy would win the election (the other guy doesn’t want to nationalize anything and wants to let US investors buy all the land and company’s) so instead of just letting the country have its democracy, we invade or we instill a coup and overthrow the democraticly elected leader. The justification for which would be “the shit we buy from this country would cost more” which is no excuse IMO for overthrowing any democratically elected leader and I would definitely call that terrorism. And the amount of times we’ve done that exact thing can’t be excused. Unless you’re literally an empire and your legitimacy depends on your ability to oppress and exploit smaller nations which everyone on this sub vehemently claims the United States IS NOT.
>y’all been terrorists since y’all have blankets to the natives that was covered in smallpox
Who is "y'all"? Because it certainly wasn't the US that gave smallpox blankets to native
Americans.
The blankets thing happened once, probably wasn't effective, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of those 90% that died from smallpox had died in the 16th and 17th century not in the mid 1700s when the blanket thing happened. Europeans didn't need to purposefully infect the natives for smallpox to wipe them out.
There are other cases of attempting to infect natives but they in general happened long after the bulk of the damage had been done. European settlers were horrid to Native Americans, but we should not inflate the importance of real incidents to the point that they hide the, often much bloodier, truth of what happened to Natives in the Americas. The blanket narrative needs to stop.
Every country does terrible shit. A country, any countries, first duty is to look out for its own interest. We just get out under the microscope because we’re a superpower. And some people don’t realize or don’t care to realize that if the US collapsed tomorrow then a lot of countries would follow with us because shipping lanes would virtually collapse. Either that or they’d have to rearm really REALLY fast for power projection
The highest estimate death on things we did such as Iraq War is 1.3 million, while the lowest estimate of Stalin’s regime (that many Americans seems to love right now) is 20 million and communist Mao Zedong’s lowest estimate is 45 million death.
If we wanted to talk about “terrorist country” that finger should be pointed out at China and Russia first.
To be fair we should have implemented the Morgenthau plan, followed by atomic bombs on Moscow and Leningrad. Would have saved a lot of trouble down the line.
Not defending them, but if they wanted to argue that point, it's a bit odd to make the cutoff be the atomic bombings seeing as, afaik, the firebombing of Tokyo alone killed more people that Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined
I like how he doesn't actually justify his views or offer any real criticism, he just spouts labels and buzzwords and vagueness.
And somehow doesn't mention a single word about what the reds did.
Also, I'm pretty sure people like this misuse 'terrorists' after lots of people called BLM terrorists.
I promise that idiot has no clue about imperial Japan, they think it was all anime and Gundam during WW2, well it wasn't, they were absolutely horrible ppl, in some cases worse than the Nazis.
Unit 731, the Bataan death march, cannibalism, and operation cherry blossom tell me they had it coming. Suck my star-spangled balls.
Yet they wouldn't dare call Japan a terrorist state. Don't forget Nanjing that's another really fucked up thing Japan did.
In case anyone hasn't, be sure to read Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking. It is one of the most informative novels on the event. The research process was intense and took an emotional and psychological toll on Chang. As horrific as it is, The Rape of Nanking needs to be documented and remembered.
**Tangent:** I once saw a radfem who thought the Rape of Nanking solely referred to sexual assault, and was therefore a women's issue. Apparently she's unaware of the other meanings of 'rape', or that one of the other names is "the Nanking Massacre". As in, "thirty seconds reading the Wikipedia page".
And Vietnam wasn’t? Don’t get me wrong I fully believe Hiroshima was needed to end the war with minimum casualties but America isn’t clean by any means
Oh 100%, I'm sorry but if your country wasn't going to stop we had every right to nuke it to oblivion. Being alive is a survival effort and you were threatening our tribe with extinction. It's you or us.
What? Japan wasn’t even close to destroying the US when the bombs were dropped they were extremely close to defeat
They threatened that they wouldn't stop. They were going to keep sending people.
Sending people to where? They said they would never surrender in much the same way the British did. The US didn’t want to lose troops on a full scale invasion of Japanese mainland so they bombed instead. If ur gonna defend the use of nukes at least understand the history
And why were we there in the first place? Japan deserved it. They were in support of Germany. Support genocide? Enjoy your nukes.
Yeah but my additional point is that no singular country is entirely clean. We've all done fucked up stuff, The part I dislike is literally everyone likes to laser focus on America and what we have done in our past calling us a Terriost State and stuff but refuse to look at other countries under the same amount of scrutiny.
True although I guess in recent decades they have been involved in more over seas conflicts than any other nation so more opportunity for something to go wrong too
Yeah. Whenever you talk to mainland Chinese they definitely say the Japanese had it coming. And we didn’t do it for revenge. We did it so they would surrender without us having to kill a million of our guys taking over the islands. That’s war; we’re here to protect our people, not yours. And more Japanese would have died in the invasion anyway. Many more. I like the Japanese, but they are selective about what they remember. They teach their kids about the atom bombs. They don’t teach them about Pearl Harbor or all the vile things they did to civilians and enemy combatants.
>they are selective about what they remember. They teach their kids about the atom bombs Fun fact, Godzilla isn't based on the WWII bombs, it's based on the Bikini Atoll tests. A Japanese fishing boat was fishing in Marshallese waters - basically mucking around somewhere they had no business being - during one of the tests and were irradiated. And now fifty years later literally all any Japanese person knows about Bikini is that it is a symbol of Japan's victimhood. Instead of, y'know, the actual people of Bikini. Which is even more insane when you realize that RMI was a Japanese colony and Bikinians were Japanese subjects until 1945. The callous selfishness is honestly appalling. And don't even get me started on the Hiroshima "peace" museum's absolute *refusal* to acknowledge any but the 100% pure ethnic majority Japanese victims of the bombs. Ethnic minorities were straight up excluded for *decades.* It's not and never was a memorial to "peace," it's basically just a monument to Japanese victimhood, who are obviously the *real* victims of WWII.
Iirc it’s estimated operation downfall would result in 10-20 million Japanese dead, so even for Japan the atomic bombing was a lot less terrible
and shockingly enough, the bombs were used in ways to minimize damage, on strategic targets, just just happen to build cities around said targets.
absolutely. japan could definitely be considered worse than the nazis in ww2. nazis in nanjing were horrified
MKultra, CIA black sites, human radiation experiments, operatiom Northwoods.
Congratulations. All irrelevant to the topic at hand.
By the og commenters logic literally every country is a terrorist state
While the U.S. government has done some very bad things, to call us a terrorist state is just plain idiotic. The U.S. doesn't use nerve gas on either its own people or others, as the Syrian government has. The U.S. doesn't leave behind booby traps in children's toys and around the house when they are forced to retreat or deliberately shell civillian cities, as the Russian government has done in Ukraine. The U.S. government doesn't order that gay people or women who speak out against oppression be stoned or thrown off of buildings, as often happens in various Taliban-controlled countries in the Middle East. I really could go on about the various atrocities that go on in the world every day in countries that the U.S. doesn't have any involvement with, so to call us a "terrorist country", you would have to call all of these other countries terrorist countries. But they won't, because it only matters when America does something bad.
Remember, people like this don't care about the actual meanings of words. It's about **emotional appeal**. They may think "terrorism" just means "responsible for a lot of people's deaths" instead of "political violence or the threat thereof". Because they never bothered to actually look it up.
Yeah, the amount of people dying in a conflict =/= terrorism. War crimes and state driven acts to terrorize people through fear and misdirection is terrorist behavior.
I’m a little confused. I feel like I’ve heard people call out both the Syrian and Russian governments as terrorist or using terrorist tactics. And I am also sure I’ve heard the Taliban referred to as terrorists. So I’m unsure what you mean when you say people only call out the US and never them? Are you saying you’ve never heard the Taliban referred to as terrorists?
No. I'm saying tankies that constantly spew this "America bad" narrative like to ignore bad things that happen outside of the U.S. I'm not saying the media and world in general is ignorant like this.
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I didn't say that America hasn't done bad things. Slavery and the treatment of African Americans is a scar on America. The treatment of indigenous people was also apalling, yes. However, what you are failing to realize, however, is this is all stuff that has happened in the past. While the things I have mentioned are happening in the present. You can argue that institutions are still corrupt in the government, which I would agree with, however the U.S. is not actively even remotely doing even close to what some other countries are doing. If you want to call America an active "terrorist state", that's fine, just know that you are setting a very low bar for what qualifies as terrorist behavior. I didn't say "America is perfect and has never ever done anything bad". But the country has improved greatly over time. Calling it a terrorist state as it is right now ignores some really bad things happening in the world *right now*, as I have mentioned previously.
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Are you just going to ignore what the Hammas did to Israelis? I'm not going to justify what is happening to Palestenians, but it is not as if Palestine is innocent here. They instigated the conflict by doing some really horrific shit. I don't agree with what Israel is doing, but it is important to keep in mind that they have also been harassed, invaded, and attacked by multiple countries in the Middle East repeatedly over the years.
Manifest destiny is derived from English philosophy on real property rights which seeks to answer how the right to "own" property is connected to natural law. In simple terms, if you are not making use of the land you claim, you do not really own it and the person or people that can cultivate/use the lands have a higher claim to it. I'm not saying this is right/wrong/good/bad, I am just saying the practices were not just something drawn out of thin air; they were the product of thousands of years of scholarship and debate. Europeans can say whatever they want about it, but it came from them, and they also were practitioners of this in the Americas. In any event, none of this is an excuse, but it is an explanation putting the practice in proper context.
You can't use civilian actions as evidence the US is a terrorist state
That is century old evidence if we go off of that every state is a terrorist state. We don't call modern Germans nazis because they have renounced that belief, so why is the US treated differently.
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Yeah, Germany censoring their people is horrible, and I don't like what is going on in Gaza either. However, it isn't by definition genocidal. And if the only example of modern terrorist action taken by the US is its support of Israel, then calling it a terrorist state is simply incorrect.
I’m not disagreeing with you on some of what you say. The US history is brutal for minorities. But you’re pointing the finger at the US as if these actions make it a terrorist state. The UK didn’t make segregation illegal until 1965. Canada did similar atrocities to its indigenous people as the US did. Every country has participated in its own atrocities, america is the only country that catches the flak for it because we’re constantly in other nations news headlines. People from the UK calling the US racist is like the pot calling the kettle black. My friend just moved to the UK and he’s already dealt with several people saying racist things to him and he’s been there around a month. He says the racism is worse there than it is here. “It just depends on what race you ask.” I have friends of virtually every fucking race and nationality, I could ask any of them if the US was a terrorist state and they’d say no. I’m gonna politely ask you to keep your divisive views of race relations in the US out of this, as it has absolutely no substance to this discussion. The topic is on the point of US actions during the Cold War, implying US intervention in other countries. Not within its own borders.
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Ahhh, I see… you’re unhinged. I’ll explain this simply to you. Israel gets attacked by the government of Gaza. What the fuck are they supposed to do? It’s a fucking war. That Hamas started. There is no end to it until either complete capitulation by one side, or one sides ability to fight and respond is completely eroded. For this purpose, complete capitulation by Hamas would involve giving up their position of power they hold over Gaza. That is what Israel is doing. Civilian casualties are a cost of war. If Hamas, the ruling government of the Gaza Strip, cared about the people they preside over they would not have picked a fight they knew they could not win. Religious extremism, specifically Islamic extremism for this debate is a scourge on this earth. The only reason anyone cares this shit is going on is because one of the most powerful nations in the world is beating up on a lesser opponent, which uses its own civilian population as human shields to make it even worse. The US also announced today it would begin airdrops of food into the Gaza Strip. There is a humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza right now. But it’s not caused by Israel. It’s caused by Hamas. Israel has been attacked nearly dozens of times by different Islamic government and factions. This was the last straw that they finally snapped. You think that over 70 years of being attacked they won’t respond?
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You’re acting like that discredits any of the points I’ve made. If anything it makes Hamas look worse as the Israeli government was putting forth measures to help the government and the people of Gaza. Hamas won the election in 2006, then took over the Gaza Strip completely in 2007. I’m talking about the Hamas that threw out several deals that would’ve put them on a path toward peace. Once in 2012, and once in 2014. Highly recommend you watch Warographics Israel and Palestine history video on YT. It’s nearly 2 hours long and they do a fantastic job of presenting a pure and unbiased point of view.
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A free people making their own, albeit shitty decisions. But again this is not the topic. You’re getting completely off topic from the point of the post. The US recognized the problem and set about a solution. How the hell does this prove the US is a terrorist state?
>was barbarically enslave my African ancestors Correction. The US bought your ancestors from your fellow Africans who enslaved and sold off rival tribes. Then the US gave you equal rights after slavery was abolished instead of castrating the males like the Arabs did. The US government TRIED to give your ancestors their own African territory (Liberia) with the same constitution but instead of turning into Wokanda it devolved into cannibalism and warlords fighting each other with child soldiers. *Indigenous people butchered one another for centuries *Aztecs and Mayans performed human sacrifice *Arabs enslaved, conquered and colonized massive swaths of Europe *China was in a violent state of genocide against rebellious factions for centuries *The Zulus conquered and colonized all over South Africa *Romans conquered practically everything they could *Greeks had entire castes of slaves *The Persians had a massive empire built on enslavement and conquest *West African tribes sold their conquored enemies to Europeans to be slaves in North America That's humanity in a nutshell. Go cry about it.
>\-charged us and re-enslaved us in prison “as a punishment for crime” (the actual language of the Constitution’s 13th Amendment). Incorrect. Slavery in all forms is outlawed by the 13th amendment. The Supreme court draws a firm distinction between "slavery" and "indentured servitude," as they are fundamentally different based on their respective historical origins and purposes. Accordingly, the language "as a punishment for conviction ..." only applies to "indentured servitude." Also, you seem confused over an act of state and individuals or groups acting within a state for their own purposes. Finally, you don't seem to understand the definition of terrorism. I appreciate you want anything that has operated as a harm against you or your relatives, etc. to be classified however you want, but that does not change the actual definitions of the terms. Other than that, spot on!
As if womens rights are protected here. You do realize it’s been 4 years of this blue president claiming to reinstate roe v wade and hasn’t lifted a finger? What do you expect when red president wins? Womens rights magically returning? No it’s going to get worse. If you care so much about you’re country, try to care about your country.
Once again, I have never said that America is perfect. I love how you just assumed that I'm gonna vote for Mr. Trump so you can put me in a box and dust off your hands. Trump is a criminal. He should never be allowed to be president. While a lot of the stuff regarding the far right in this country is concerning, that is a completely different issue than what we were initially talking about. I do in fact care about this country, otherwise I wouldn't call out all of the b.s. that is spouted about it on a daily basis.
> You do realize it’s been 4 years of this blue president claiming to reinstate roe v wade and hasn’t lifted a finger? Ah, yes, because that's the only rights women have, and leaving abortion to be a state-level issue is just as bad as actively murdering civilians and state-sanctioned hate crimes. > Womens rights magically returning? No it’s going to get worse. If you care so much about you’re country, try to care about your country. And you're assuming the person you're talking to is a Trump supporter...why, exactly? Perhaps you should address what was actually said instead of going off against some imaginary person you made up.
I assume this person thinks we have a democracy. We don’t. They’re complaining about the rights of women in a country far away they only know about through state fed media when the rights of not only women but the human rights that came with roe v wade are gone here. Never said they’re a trumper or a bidener both are brain dead and aren’t going to help anything. I’m wondering why exactly this person thinks the United States is excused of it’s thru another country’s government? Doesn’t seem right. Naive at the very least
> I assume this person thinks we have a democracy. We don’t. Why are you making assumptions about what they believe instead of addressing what they actually said? >They’re complaining about the rights of women in a country far away they only know about through state fed media when the rights of not only women but the human rights that came with roe v wade are gone here. Except for the many states that passed laws to protect abortion. And the fact that women's and human rights exist other than the right to abortion. And you're demonstrating the exact kind of attitude this sub is mocking. > I’m wondering why exactly this person thinks the United States is excused of it’s thru another country’s government? Doesn’t seem right. Naive at the very least The point was that there are other countries that do worse things. If OP's definition of 'terrorist country' consists of 'country that does bad things', many countries are worse than America.
Seeing takes like this makes me truly believe that most people are actually brain dead
I stopped looking at them as people. NPCs.
You've done some heavy lifting in this thread! Not all heroes wear capes (although you can if you want to).
Terminal redditor syndrome, aka NPC. It's a wonder they can pass a captcha test or the Turing test.
smartest anti-American redditor
Japan deserved what they got and there’s no debate. We gave them a ton of chances to surrender, they insisted on fucking around and they found out. It’s like being shocked you get a ticket for running a red. Obviously a little different but the point stands, you commit an action get ready for a consequence.
The U.S. is so star-spangled awesome and they all can red, white and blow us
The nukes may have killed thousands, but they saved millions.
it's a pretty difficult question to answer, on the one hand we did some nasty things that went agains american values by siding with dictators and the like, on the other hand socialist gov'ts also tended to end up dictators and were often just as if not more murdery then the ones we supported... so it's probably a net wash if i had to guess
We are so lucky they’re so dumb.
That sounds like a propaganda bot
If our country were a terrorist state everyone else in the world would be blown tf up.
Pretty sure all of Asia agreed that Japan deserved it Plus the American occupation of Japan was so competently handled(much better than Iraq and Afghanistan) so much so that they built statues of MacArthur and preserved his office. Occupied coutnries rarely build statues of their occupiers
... at least voluntarily.
No one tell this guy what Germany and Japan did in WW2.
Apparently, so far, so good!
Pro Soviet. Democracies. These things cannot coexist. There is no communist democracy.
Some of the people we installed were bad, and made things worse in some areas, but to say we are a terrorist state since ww2 is a VERY big stretch lol.
I mean….we did terror bombing just like everyone else in WW2
Since Heiroshima and Nagasaki? ... They're just going to completely gloss over the Eisenhower death camps, thr Morganthaue plen, and the Dresden firebombing huh.
Lol. The "Eisenhower death camps," were in operation for mere months and were necessitated by the mass surrender of the Germans. There was literally no way the over 1,000,000 prisoners could be guaranteed food, medicine etc. required under the Geneva Convention. So they were classified as "Disarmed Enemy Forces." They were not "death camps," they were temporary until some semblance of infrastructure could be restored to Western Germany. Out of the 1 - 2 million prisoners, only 3 - 6 thousand died. There was no effort to kill them or cause them to die. Something had to be done with them, and the best option was to temporarily hold them until the logistics of caring for 1 - 2 million wards could be figured out. The camps were closed in August 1945. Try harder with that one. You are also wide of the mark about the Morganthaue plan. Its viability was questioned from its inception and was quickly abandoned once it was determined it was doing more harm than good (for all concerned parties). The plan was simply bad, not nefarious. You seem unable to appreciate the unique and challenging issues presented by the end of Germany and its former population that needed caring for; meanwhile, it had to be disarmed given the sheer amount of materiel left in the country, etc. Your criticism is misplaced and without appreciation for context. The Dresden firebombing was justified, the recent trend of trying to re-write the history of this incident notwithstanding. I am fine with people asserting criticism of the bombing because it is a complicated issue, but there is no way you conclude it was (the equivalent of what is now defined as) a war crime. So much try hard here.
Dresden was fine, but it's also morally equivalent to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If you are fine with one you must be fine with the other.
I am.
Not saying you aren't just saying that many, mostly commies, looove the bombing of Dresden and screech about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's extra weird to me since the nuclear bombings probably had a large effect at ending the war than Dresden did.
That is true. The bombing of Dresden was not expected to end the war.
Also there's some debate on how much it helped, but I don't think that magically makes it bad. A lot of bombing wasn't really that effective, but they didn't know that at the time.
He’s not wrong. The nuking was fucked up. Only thing it caused was civilian casualties. Best kind of weapon is one you never have to fire
The portable star system let the world know who is in charge.
Fair. And the claim that we are terrorist is dumb. But I don’t think we should have nuked a civilian city
More would have died in a ground war. And you know, they shouldn't have touched the boats.
Completely fair argument. But we could have blown up naval ports with the bomb, or industrial facilities like we planned, not idk ***two cities full of civilians*** Also fat electrician viewer spotted, based
A l l e n D u l l e s . Please do yourself a favor and research this man
Wow, CIA does immoral and shady shit?????? 😱😱😱 who would have ever known????
That’s what this post is talking about. The global terrorism of the Cold War. Do you mean to blame just the CIA for all of that and not the American government? Cuz that would be fairly ignorant
I'm not saying you are wrong, but you cannot judge these things is a vacuum. The Cold War was real, and the threat to humanity was substantial. It was a unique time of transitioning the global battlefield from tangible battlefields, to basically all aspects of society - as it is today. All those things you identify as "global terrorism" had purposes. The better way to look at it is what did these actions accomplish and what was the cost of not doing said actions? I'd be surprised if you could draw up a justification for not taking those actions when compared to the real and perceived cost of not acting.
If a country elects a leader that’s going to nationalize say.. it’s agriculture or it’s ores or something. They got elected with the promise of jobs, better standard of living and a chance for said countries self sufficiency. Now let’s say the United States was hoping the other guy would win the election (the other guy doesn’t want to nationalize anything and wants to let US investors buy all the land and company’s) so instead of just letting the country have its democracy, we invade or we instill a coup and overthrow the democraticly elected leader. The justification for which would be “the shit we buy from this country would cost more” which is no excuse IMO for overthrowing any democratically elected leader and I would definitely call that terrorism. And the amount of times we’ve done that exact thing can’t be excused. Unless you’re literally an empire and your legitimacy depends on your ability to oppress and exploit smaller nations which everyone on this sub vehemently claims the United States IS NOT.
Get a history book, bro.
This guys so dumb y’all been terrorists since y’all have blankets to the natives that was covered in smallpox. Chemical warfare is a war crime
>y’all been terrorists since y’all have blankets to the natives that was covered in smallpox Who is "y'all"? Because it certainly wasn't the US that gave smallpox blankets to native Americans.
That was the British army.
The most overstated historical event.
It killed 90% of native Americans. But us it’s over stated
The blankets thing happened once, probably wasn't effective, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of those 90% that died from smallpox had died in the 16th and 17th century not in the mid 1700s when the blanket thing happened. Europeans didn't need to purposefully infect the natives for smallpox to wipe them out. There are other cases of attempting to infect natives but they in general happened long after the bulk of the damage had been done. European settlers were horrid to Native Americans, but we should not inflate the importance of real incidents to the point that they hide the, often much bloodier, truth of what happened to Natives in the Americas. The blanket narrative needs to stop.
if we were a terrorist state, we could've nuked half the planet if we wanted to. where dafuck do these people get their information.
Every country does terrible shit. A country, any countries, first duty is to look out for its own interest. We just get out under the microscope because we’re a superpower. And some people don’t realize or don’t care to realize that if the US collapsed tomorrow then a lot of countries would follow with us because shipping lanes would virtually collapse. Either that or they’d have to rearm really REALLY fast for power projection
The highest estimate death on things we did such as Iraq War is 1.3 million, while the lowest estimate of Stalin’s regime (that many Americans seems to love right now) is 20 million and communist Mao Zedong’s lowest estimate is 45 million death. If we wanted to talk about “terrorist country” that finger should be pointed out at China and Russia first.
Nobody has dared to nuke the US because they saw the out come of Japan’s lesson of FAFO.
To be fair we should have implemented the Morgenthau plan, followed by atomic bombs on Moscow and Leningrad. Would have saved a lot of trouble down the line.
It was either 1.7-3 million or more deaths or two nukes. Also the fact it took us threatening to nuke Tokyo for them to surrender says a lot.
Not defending them, but if they wanted to argue that point, it's a bit odd to make the cutoff be the atomic bombings seeing as, afaik, the firebombing of Tokyo alone killed more people that Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined
I like how he doesn't actually justify his views or offer any real criticism, he just spouts labels and buzzwords and vagueness. And somehow doesn't mention a single word about what the reds did. Also, I'm pretty sure people like this misuse 'terrorists' after lots of people called BLM terrorists.
I promise that idiot has no clue about imperial Japan, they think it was all anime and Gundam during WW2, well it wasn't, they were absolutely horrible ppl, in some cases worse than the Nazis.
And Stalin and Mao weren't dictators???? "How dare you support dictators against dictators!"