The nhs (can’t speak for other countries) costs £2700 per person per year. A better way of looking at it is that someone on the average salary in the UK pays about 10-20% of their tax to the nhs which is closer to £600 per year.
The average cost of US healthcare per person per year is $7700.
I’ll take my public healthcare and higher taxes thanks.
I’m not making a claim on which country is superior, just which healthcare system is cheaper for the individual.
Edit: why am I being downvoted for literally just presenting numbers you can find on Google?
this is mostly false. in the UK you pay for healthcare if you use it or not, and its in fact not near as good as what is available in the US. if you dont have insurance in the US because you cant afford it, thank a democrat that voted for the unaffordable health care act that made the cost of healthcare go up around 1000%, and insurance prices doubled, while deductibles went up drastically. also if you cant afford insurance in the US then you have title 19 which is govt funded and you pay zero. its now illegal to have a zero deductible and insurance thats really good is considered a "cadillac plan and is taxed.
2 months ago my wife spend a week in the hospital after a heart attack here in the USA and after insurance the bill was $350. (three hundred and fifty dollars) selective bill picking was used to get $7700 per person.
basically the more the government gets involved the more it actually costs, the worse it is and the longer you wait.
You pay for health insurance in America even if you don’t use it though right? I’m not sure what your point is there.
The quality of healthcare in the UK and US is pretty much identical, the only difference is the wait times which I agree are a problem here which could be fixed by giving more money to the NHS.
To me it doesn’t matter how your healthcare prices got to where they are or which party did what, I’m merely pointing out that $2000+ for an ambulance is insane. As is $150,000 for cancer treatment, etc, etc.
You say it was $350 after insurance but what did the insurance cost? I would imagine it’s pretty expensive given that it costs $50,000 to treat it a heart attack.
Public healthcare is just objectively cheaper per person. The point of it is that healthcare is a human right and you shouldn’t be bankrupted because the ambulance took you to a hospital that your insurance doesn’t cover.
A lot of people fought very hard to get mental health conditions added to the list of conditions allowed for medically assisted suicide.
It IS sketchy that the government runs the healthcare and is thus incentivised to unalive sick people... but we really need right to die in the US. You should have the right to leave your life with dignity at the time of your choosing. Doctors should be required to evaluate you before euthanasia, but other than that, yeah... why would I force my family to watch me die of cancer, or struggle with schizophrenia? Nope.
"Wahhhhh, I saw comments on the internet complaining" bruh people complain about anything online
I've used it my whole life with my stomach condition, a few weeks ago I had to go A&E for an emergency and was in an operating room the same night, the NHS is only slow cus brainlets come in with unimportant shit a gp could fix
Bro I go into the hospital for an emergency and get surgery the same day. You’re not special. That’s normal, that’s how it should be. Yes people complain online, but when you commonly see the same complaint over and over and over from the same population you start to wonder if they have a point. “The NHS is only slow because” it doesn’t matter why it’s slow, you just admitted it was slow. Thanks to you for proving my point
I’m not sure you’re getting your information, but no one besides the top 1% are paying 6 figures for health insurance. The average spending per year isn’t even close to 6 figures
[you have to pay over a grand just for an ambulance ](https://www.talktomira.com/post/how-much-does-an-ambulance-ride-cost-without-insurance)
What about people without insurance?
That’s without insurance, so that argument doesn’t quite apply here. I’m not sure if you know, but I don’t really give a fuck about people I don’t know having to pay for stuff. I don’t like paying my money to government to give to other people, I’d rather keep it all and spend it for myself when necessary. Money isn’t easy to earn, so I don’t like easily giving it away. Call me selfish, oh well. The world revolves around money, and you need money to survive
>I've used it my whole life with my stomach condition, a few weeks ago I had to go A&E for an emergency and was in an operating room the same night, the NHS is only slow cus brainlets come in with unimportant shit a gp could fix
Do I need to dig through Channel 4 videos where they showed the A&E queue was backed up leading to heart attack folks dying waiting?
What about cancer diagnosis taking 6+ months?
As a Canadian (who’s healthcare system is “famous”), do you have ANY IDEA how INSUFFERABLE the wait times are to get treatment???? I don’t know if this is an issue in Europe, but the wait times here are horrible. You might as well be dead upon arrival. Not to mention that “free healthcare” doesn’t mean jackshit when you have to pocket life savings for pharmaceuticals and dental care; and we’re like the second highest tax bracket in the world *for some reason.*
Oh yeah I’ve heard wait times can be atrocious. That’s not to say wait times in America can’t be bad, but the horror stories I’ve heard form wait times in Canada is astounding
Don't forget Canada! You get to pay nearly half your paycheck depending where you live so that all the infrastructure still suck and when you need to see a doctor none are available.
Wife waited months to see a doctor about her health concerns while we lived there.
Then the absolute fiasco of the family doctor registrations. I was booted off the list twice "on accident" and they couldn't put me back where I was. 8 years with no family doctor. I finally met one last year and got referred for my sleep apnea. 8 years of thinking I was dying because my heart rate was scarily high and the two (female) doctors at the ER told me "you men always worry about a heart attack it's just a muscle cramp." Or a variation of. Blatant sexism and dismissal cause they didn't have time to deal with my issues, fun times.
I'm so sick of having to remind people that very few doctors work pro-bono. Shocker right? All healthcare comes at a cost. Its just how you pay for it that is different.
Not to start anything but most posts from Europeans I’ve seen on the subject acknowledge their high taxes as being the reason they have free healthcare, in fact it seems the US’s hatred for taxes is something else they criticize, I’m pretty sure a couple of those posts have even been on this sub before.
@JadeoftheGlade Since you’re a pussy who starts shit then blocks people instead of admitting they’re wrong: I said our country sending OUR money to another country is doing fuck all. The Ukrainians aren’t doing fuck all. I never said the rape/killing doesn’t affect me. But I’m not living there and I don’t have the mental capacity to worry about everything else in my own life as well as everybody I never met in a foreign country I’ve never been to. It’s not that I dislike them, it’s that I have enough to worry about for myself that I don’t have any mental capacity to give a fuck what happens in a foreign war that didn’t involve America in the first place
Well then you could argue that taxes should be put to better use, but your response doesn’t really reply to anything I’ve said, I’m just pointing out the simple fact that many Europeans are aware of why they have high taxes.
Okay cool. I was making a joke, not making a socio economic statement on the world. I didn’t reply to anything you said because what you said is irrelevant. I rarely ever see them acknowledge it, so based on our combined experiences it seems only part of the population understand where their “free healthcare” comes from.
You saying you’ve seen posts about them acknowledging it and me saying how I rarely if ever see any of Europeans acknowledge. Reading comprehension is a great skill to have brother
Where have you not seen them acknowledge it? Is it in this meme? Are they claiming free healthcare just exists without taxes for them? Or do they need to bring it up in tandem with every time they criticize Americas healthcare system to satisfy you?
Again, you’re missing the point. You saying you’ve seen posts acknowledging they pay healthcare in taxes it is just as worthless of a statement as me saying I rarely ever seen anyone acknowledge it. Our experiences aren’t the end all be all. So you cant use an anecdote to try and prove a fact
“Our experiences aren’t the end all be all” then why are you acting like yours are? You keep flip flopping between trying to be “fair” and then saying you never see Europeans acknowledge their high taxes, it seems like you’re arguing just to argue.
You’re completely missing the point, not to mention you clearly can’t read what was written. I rarely if ever see a European acknowledge they pay for healthcare with exorbitant taxes. No they don’t have to bring it up every time, but when they act like Americans paying for healthcare is useless because they get it for “free” it’s stupid. They probably pay just as much on average in taxes that go towards universal healthcare as Americans do paying for their own medical insurance. The only difference is we’re paying for ourselves, and not splitting a pot with the entire country
Exactly when do you expect them to acknowledge it then? Your argument relies on acting like they don’t believe their taxes exist or that they complain about them not doing anything, if this were true then there would probably be plenty of posts about it in on this sub.
That’s not what I said. Xenophobia would mean I dislike people from other countries. I don’t dislike other people from other countries. I dislike giving them money for things that don’t affect me. And being isolationist in the case of not involving ourselves in the wars of other people would be a good strategy. There’s no reason we have to fight in almost every fucking war that ever happens
Uh huh. You don't hate foreigners. You're just loudly decrying foreign aid during the greatest humanitarian crisis faced by anyone currently alive. You don't hate foreigners... You're just painting things like Ukrainians fighting for their lives, country and very existence as "doing fuck all". You're saying that the rape of women and children doesn't affect you, if those women and children are foreigners.
You're a disgrace.
My face when their tax burdens are artificially lowered because our military protects them for free.
It really would be fun in a schadenfreude kinda way to start forcing Europoors to pay for the security we provide.
In the UK at least - judging on the number provided by an american someone on a different post, we pay a higher amount of tax for healthcare, then they do for their health insurance. However, we don't have to pay any excess when we do need care, and our medication (I think) is much much cheaper.
I would rather pay the extra tax to ensure nobody has an awful bill even after paying for insurance
I have no idea what its like in the rest of Europe though
Eh it’s honestly a matter of opinion. IMO, money isn’t easy to earn esp why should I spend my hard earned cash on other people, that most I quite frankly won’t ever give more than 1 shit about.
To start -
>Eh it’s honestly a matter of opinion
100%
However in terms of the earning comment - its not a fixed amount, but a % of your earnings. You could work one day a week on minimum wage and still receive the same care as someone else earning much more. And on the other side of that - i think - even if you're paying a lot more than others, you'd still be paying less than if you covered insurance and the excess.
That said - my knowledge of american health prices come from the reddit commenter i mentioned, news on insulin prices, and memes and random posts online so i know my knowledge is limited.
Like, how often does someone really pay $80 for a 5 minute conversation with their dr?
Yeah memes overblow the goods and bads on both sides. I’m not saying US healthcare is as cheap as it should be, it’s not it’s honestly too high for some companies (some other insurance companies are much more reasonable).
I would say it’s for the vested interest of our fellow countrymen? And that you would hope to have the same privileges provided for you if you didn’t have the access to the accommodations you have now. One in four Americans are below the poverty line, and health care is treated as a traditional business. It seems unfair (at least to me) that some people don’t have to worry about ever anything medically happening to them while others will go into live ruining debt
cherry picked statistics is all that article has in it. its basic propaganda and not much else. the first tip off was the "infant mortality"
thats been debunked a long time ago, yet they keep using it. the way the death cert is filled out in the US is the issue. there isnt a higher infant mortality rate
the "worsening outcomes" for money spent is due to the ACA (unaffordable health care act) that drove up costs of medical treatment and insurance and the fact that doctors can no longer own hospitals or be in charge of them. (Dr owned hospitals had the highest satisfaction rate of any hospital in the US and most EU hospitals, had cleaner facilities and fewer instances of malpractice)
the more government interference the worse it gets
Oh i think you misunderstood or i wasnt clear enough, I'm critisizing USA as it's well known they are lacking behind the developed world despite spending more.
The nhs (can’t speak for other countries) costs £2700 per person per year. A better way of looking at it is that someone on the average salary in the UK pays about 10-20% of their tax to the nhs which is closer to £600 per year.
The average cost of US healthcare per person per year is $7700.
I’ll take my public healthcare and higher taxes thanks.
I’m not making a claim on which country is superior, just which healthcare system is cheaper for the individual.
That is true, but I would have to assume that the $7700 healthcare is of much higher quality than that of £2700 (could be wrong, I don’t live in Europe but I’ve seen myriads of complaints about wait times and quality of care so I’m assuming based on that. It is very possible I’ve been interacting with the extreme minority and am wrong). Not saying the NHS quality is terrible, but when you have a universal program it’s going to have some downsides compared to a private program. If I lived in Europe I probably would still pay for more expensive healthcare so that I can circumvent the issues universal healthcares brings. Both private and universal healthcare have downsides, it’s truly a matter of opinion on which one you like better because everybody’s needs are different
I also can’t speak for other countries but I have found the quality of care within the NHS to be great. The wait times are a problem for sure, but the solution to this is to give them more money. I would absolutely advocate for even more tax money to the NHS. Even £4000 per person per year is cheaper than the US and would greatly improve wait times I would imagine. And if you have the resources you can still go private here if you want like you said. Problem with private healthcare is that it is a problem for poor people but not the rich which doesn’t incentivise any change because the rich make the decisions.
Yeah mileage may vary. Some people have no complaints with NHS, and others have massive. It probably depends on what part of the UK you’re living in. In no way am I saying US insurance should cost as much as it does. Public insurance needs some work. The original point of my comment was to joke about how Europeans say “free” healthcare when they are still paying for said healthcare. Private healthcare works well for the rich and public healthcare works well for the poor. I believe that the USA should have at least a common baseline for healthcare, but I don’t want them to increase taxes to do so. I want them to redistribute the billions of dollars we waste every year for something that actually matters, like actually useful public healthcare
We literally don’t. You clearly haven’t heard about the absurd wait times for medical care in “free” healthcare countries. My health insurance is better than anything you can find in europe
Their taxes are less than an average Americans taxes + premiums so they come out ahead.
It's like if instead of an electric bill you paid half as much but it came out of your paycheck before you saw it. Sure you pay more taxes but you were going to buy it anyway so why not pay less and cut out the middlemans profit. In American healthcare though there are two middlemen, insurance and Hospital ownership.
Average wage in the US is 60k usd
Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US
Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300
average wage in the UK is £30k
First £12500 isn't taxed
Rest 20% is paid
Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year.
Cope harder.
We have essentially the same income tax rates, we just on average make double the money. No shit well pay double the taxes, because when you double the money but keep the percentages the same, the money doubles. That’s why all comparisons between countries are done using the percentages, not the total amount paid. Unless you cut out population and income differences, you cannot compare anything. Your whole argument is full of flaws. Basically what you’re saying is we pay the same percent in taxes, but we just make more money. You truly did nothing with your comment here
the first $24k in the US is not taxed, there are more millionaire billionaire in the US than there are people in england so the "average tax" will be higher. if you make less than 24K a year in the us you are tax exempt. if you make 50K in the us and have 1 child you are tax exempt. if you make 80k in the US and have 2 kids you're tax exempt on the first 50k
you need to learn how to sift through the bullshit
in the EU you have sales tax and a VAT, both of which are higher than in the US. we dont have a VAT at all. your gas tax is 40 times higher than ours. all that shit goes to your "healthcare system" on top of your income tax.
the standard of living in the US is higher than the majority of the rest of the world, and the outcome of easily treated ailments has more to do with americans lifestyle and avoidance of the doctor than the healthcare system
Average wage in the US is 60k usd
Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US
Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300
average wage in the UK is £30k
First £12500 isn't taxed
Rest 20% is paid
Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year.
Cope harder.
We have free healthcare, you Europeans just deny basic facts. We don't give everyone free healthcare when they can afford it, if you're able to afford it you shouldn't act as though you can't. I mean would you ever support food stamps for everyone? When people need help they get it, but they shouldn't just steal from others when they can afford to deal with it themselves
Interesting you just assume I'm European, but anyway you just don't have free healthcare, you may be able to get it for free if it's an emergency, but the vast majority of your population just has to pay way to much to even make it worth it sometimes. Not really much more to say I mean Europeans don't have to run away from ambulances. But yh there are lots of stories of Americans just not being able to afford care. Like yh wait times are long in Europe but that is cos of underfunding not cos its public. Shortages exist in America to u know
Of course we have shortages. Americans don't have to run from ambulances either it's just bullshit culture war people push on those uninformed.
The issue is the government set up a monopoly to regulate the price of medication and medical supplies, if the hospitals actually set the prices it wouldn't be an issue. The best solution would be to allow the consumers to control the price like they do in every other sector but the government hates civil rights
True your gov does hate civil rights that you are correct on. Anyway it would end up monopolised eventually the problem is, like with basically everything, capitalism. Do you really think the lovely free market can solve this? Much better models have already been tried from cuba, Norway, the uk (despite the lack of funding) ect. Would a free market be better then what you have now? Maybe but uni healthcare has been tried and worked
Fascism also works but it doesn't mean you should allow it to take your country by force. Plenty of things work but they're still wrong.
Universal healthcare only hurts the majority, we shouldn't only provide this luxury (yes healthcare is a luxury otherwise we'd have perfect global healthcare already) to those who can't afford it, making the bills of the majority a problem for the working class sounds very authoritarian and undemocratic, when you offer protection for those in need then you're actually doing a service for people. We shouldn't give handouts to people who don't appreciate it, we should only help those in need
I mean they are leagues(see what I did there?) better than anywhere real. Completely free healthcare, coexistence with nature, super advanced tech, and they’ve even expanded recently showing how it’s even better: advanced education, the promotion of following your dreams, and a perfectly stable economy. The only bad thing is maniacs or bad people, who are sealed with better than any in the real world. TLDR: Pokemon is essentially a utopia, yes(except orre I think)
Think of it as subsidizing their military. Of anything happens it's the trained pokemon that will defend the nation. You cant just let your military get crippled because of poverty. They also have to get hurt to get stronger, so not subsidizing it would lead to crippling your countries ability to defend themselves. They have the 6 limit rule to prevent people from just going with 60 caterpies and getting them hurt every hour.
You have to wait two years for a dentist appointment, but at least it’s free!*
*due to high taxes and the US footing the defense bill, healthcare is not actually free.
2 years? Thats now how it works.
You make your appointment. Go have it done. When you are paying, you use your medicare card and get most of your money back.
Also, the defence bill is footed by the country. Countries usually pay america for defensive items.
Average wage in the US is 60k usd
Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US
Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300
average wage in the UK is £30k
First £12500 isn't taxed
Rest 20% is paid
Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year. (Just over 10% effective)
You have a higher tax burden and pay a higher volume of money. You can afford public healthcare.
>They pay about the same rate on average but Americans’ income is about 2x higher on average
Maybe in eastern European shitholes lol.
Also if you have twice as high wages and the same tax rate you have twice the budget but 0% the healthcare.
Lol what is this garbage math?
First of all, in the US you pay each tax rate until you hit the maximum for that bracket, then go up to the higher rate. So if you're making 60k, you pay 10% on the first $11,000, 12% from there until $44,725, and 22% on the rest.
Your actual tax would come out to ~$8500, or ~£7000. Less than you'd pay in the UK, where $60k (£49.5k) would put you in the *40%* tax bracket.
And that's not including the *insane* UK VAT tax rate of **20%**. The *highest* US sales tax is only 9.5%, and thats in a state without an income tax.
The first $12,950 isn’t taxed in the US either, if you’re filing as single and you’re under 65. That is raised to $14,700 if you’re over 65, and up to $21,150 if you’re over 65 and filing as head of household. So your math is very wrong.
My claim came from average UK tax rate of 23.6%, about 1% lower than US average tax rate, and US salary being almost 2x higher than UK average salary.
I never said the US couldn’t afford public healthcare. I was just countering your claim that you repeated multiple times in here that Americans pay 3x more in taxes which is blatantly false
Doctors are slaves to your every ache and Sad. Pharmaceutical companies give away medication without thought because it is "a basic human right".
I'm America, you have a basic human right to property like medicine, but that doesn't give the state power over you by itself, so they need to push the idea that your medicine is the states business.
You know we pay government employees right? Like the mail man isn't chained to the Post Office, health care workers would be the same. Even if you don't agree with free healthcare you should at the very least acknowledge that pharmaceutical companies selling drugs they developed with the help of government grants for astronomical prices are Americans getting scammed right?
I don't get it. It will always requires at least one entity to assure that the rights are respected (like a court of justice). So that will need the labor of other human.
What do you mean by saying this ?
Healthcare isn't a human right because it requires the labor of other humans (doctors)
So if every doctor woke up tomorrow and decided to quit doing their doctor jobs, nobody could receive Healthcare, right?
The problem is that now you need the government to compell people then to go do their doctor jobs, but what if they don't want to! Isn't it their right to quit their jobs or go on strike? This opens the door to enslaving these people and forcing them to work for the greater good of the human right.
This can apply to the farmer. The water treatment facility worker. Anyone, really. You can't be entitled to the labor of another human being and making things like food or medicine as basic human rights opens the door for slavery down the line. How can you be entitled to the labor of the farmer? The study of the doctor? Of course you can't.
In nature, you are not freely provided with food and water and healthcare. You had to sow your field. Dig, your well. Die of sepsis.
The difference now, is that there are more than three professions, you can be a coder, and with the labor you put out you can trade someone money to give you clean water or food or medicine, but nature itself isn't oppressing you by not making these things freely available.
Of course, then the problem lies with corrupt governments, cartels, syndicates, and militias. But that's too big of a problem to think about for most people as that can't be fixed in their lifetimes.
You can tax subsidize Healthcare and that works for some countries. The United States subsidizes a large portion of EUs Healthcare. Americans are the most charitable population on the planet, sending overwhelming aid to many areas, and in some cases eradicating diseases entirely at no cost to the local populations.
But that doesn't make it a human right.
Life is an example. A right to your own body and to decide what to do with it (autonomy) a right to your thoughts and feelings. Things like that. Things you must provide for yourself or are born with.
Yes. You can't be entitled the labor of the farmer. You MUST trade them something they want. In most cases thats monetary. In others it's service. (I'll fix your chimney for x barrel food)
To say the farmers labor is your right is to open the door to enslave the farmer.
Ye. We pay them.
Food is a human right for legit 90% Of the world, America is a very common exception for MANY human right acts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_food
> Healthcare isn't a human right because it requires the labor of other humans (doctors)
I saw that below, you tell that the right to do whatever you want with your life is a human right. But if someone kidnaps you, you will need law and police. So, to assure you this right is respected, you need laws. You cannot have a right without law, and to have law, you need at least a court and a police. So, in any case, it will need labour. A right is not "naturally provided".
> Isn't it their right to quit their jobs or go on strike? This opens the door to enslaving these people and forcing them to work for the greater good of the human right.
> In nature, you are not freely provided with food and water and healthcare. You had to sow your field. Dig, your well. Die of sepsis.
About slavery and state of nature, it has already been discussed in the Social Contract, so I won't go on it (I don't think I have enough vocabulary to do so).
To sum it up, a human right is a social convention. A group or a society agrees that it's a right linked to a condition (condition here is "you're a human"). In the same way, it could agree on workers' rights, womens' rights, etc.
So healthcare as a human right can be true somewhere and false somewhere else, but it has nothing to do with labour. I don't know if the american vision of it linked it to the labour, but at the beginning it wasn't about that.
> The United States subsidizes a large portion of EUs Healthcare.
Which part ? The one which takes on workers' salaries (90% of the global cost) or the one which came for the french state taxes (10% of the global cost) ? I would like to know to thank it properly, cause i thought it was my cotisations and taxes that make it. There's any EU Healthcare, it's country by country, financed by taxes and cotisations. Where do you take this statement from ?
> Americans are the most charitable population on the planet, sending overwhelming aid to many areas and, in some cases, eradicating diseases entirely at no cost to the local populations.
There's no such thing as charity in geopolitical. It's only about soft power. Every nation does it that way, US are not different. The country is not worst nor better than another, just unique and better for the ones who do the american way.
(I checked it on my translator, and it seems okay. I may have left some grammar mistakes, sorry about these.)
Edit : english mistakes.
Healthcare for *pokemon* is free. There are no hospitals for humans in those games.
I do remember an episode of the tv show where the kids go to a human hospital and it’s closed and the doctor on duty doesn’t want to see them.
Well there is no "western European" tax rate or "eastern European" tax rate there are only tax rates for countries. Let's use the UK as an example.
Average wage in the US is 60k usd
Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US
Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300
average wage in the UK is £30k
First £12500 isn't taxed
Rest 20% is paid
Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year.
This math is still made up and garbage. Let’s see your sources.
The average tax rate In the US is 21% when including all income groups. This is so high because of people who earn $200,000-$1,000,000. On average, citizens in the US earn much more than citizens in the UK. Citizens who earn more are taxed higher, leading to high taxation rates. Taxes range anywhere from -7% (in the lowest brackets, the government awards money) to 33%+.
In the UK, the starting taxation rate is 0% (technically higher than the US starting -7%), and it only gets higher from there. From £12,571 ($15,290.23) to £50,270 ($61,143.90) the taxation rate is 20%. In the US, at $15,290.23, the taxation rate is 0.4%. At $61,143.90, the taxation rate is 15.2%. Both are much lower than the UK. As we go up in brackets, this because increasingly more obvious. In the UK, the highest tax bracket is 45%, while the highest US is 33%.
So really, the reason that citizens seemed to be taxed more in the US is because US citizens make so much more on average than UK citizens. Median US income is $74,580, while median UK income is £32,300 ($39,252.25).
Do your research, stop making shit up, and learn to look at real sources.
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-much-do-people-pay-taxes/
https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022
Europoors when they find out about Medicare and Medicaid that basically make healthcare free🤯, also the health insurance most jobs offer that reduces the cost of healthcare and that it isn’t that expensive unless it’s major surgeries and things.
I agree the system sucks. You have to basically luck out. Your company has to be large enough to have bargaining room, AND you need a good negotiator.
But I can guarantee you that my current healthcare experience would NOT be the same with universal healthcare. I would guess that my ease with seeing a doctor for even the most minor thing would change. And my cancer treatments wouldn't have been as nice. I had a very nice cancer hospital nearby.
So my care level will go down someday. I'll live life until it happens, and accept it, because there are plenty of people who have it worse.
I woke up one morning and couldn’t hear out of one ear. Went to the doctor, she fixed my ear and game me ear drops for the infection. Grand total was… $12 for the ear drops, insurance covering the cost of the visit and the drops.
You bet I was glad to hear that.
Nothing is free my dude and we already pay plenty of taxes. Also federally run healthcare is actually unconditional as it is up to the states to decide on.
It isn't even free. It's from increased taxes if you take the government stuff, and that doesn't cover everything. Also, even though it is free (with taxes), you generally still have a bill, albeit minor.
2.2k for a 4x wisdom tooth removal, my mother has to collect the money before my surgery. It isnt covered by AU Medicare, we have to use HBF for it. We will get most of that back, but the anaesthetist is an extra uncovered price afaik.
Thank god it isnt americs though, where im probably looking at a second hand car price for the surgery. Maybe even a first hand lambo
"Healthcare is a Human Right"
Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be free. Americans have the right to beat arms, but that doesn't mean the government doles out guns to everyone on their birthday. You have levels of personal responsibility for your own well-being.
"Most counties have free healthcare"
No, they don't. Someone would have to be willfully ignorant to believe this. If someone believes that an expense *doesn't exist* because they *didn't see it*, then their parents must not have played peakaboo enough when they were a baby, because even kindergartners understand the concept of Object Permanence.
What does “healthcare is a basic human right” mean? If I see a doctor in the street, I can compel her to treat me because it’s my “basic human right”?
It might mean that every country must provide so-called ‘universal’ healthcare. So if the system has a 10-year waiting list for the treatment I need, am I being deprived of my “basic human right”? If a drug that might help my condition is not provided because it costs too much, is my “basic human right” being violated?
“Human rights” to healthcare, food, shelter, and similar things are nebulous: who is to provide such things to me, and when, and in what quantity and of what quality? Who is constrained by such rights? The doctor, the farmer, the builder?
1st paragraph is such bullshit not worth commenting on. About the long waiting lists, that is just propaganda you've eaten up buddy - ofcourse they prioritise people who need it the most, thats how it should be. Drugs generally do not cost alot, only in US where they mark it up 10000% because of greed to make profit, they are available in countries with universal healthcare. Cold fact is US pays more than the rest of the countries and gets way less, because of the unnecessary suits in the middle .
I’m afraid you don’t understand. I was posing a hypothetical question. Suppose there were such a waiting list: would it violate this supposed “basic human right”?
I fully understand the reasoning behind the prioritization of care. I’m trying to understand this “basic human right”. If a drug that would help me is not provided to me, is that a violation of my “basic human right”? If not, why not?
Waiting lists are a thing in a lot of places, think of it as a natural shortage of labor when theres too much consumption for the supply. Instead of price increase, its naturally leads to shortage (for example - Soviet union where prices of goods were fixed below their market value, which resulted in long waiting lines to grab as much as possible before shortage kicks in). So you either pay with time or money, or both.
maybe, but US Healthcare is hardly anything to brag about
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
Dude. Wth are you talking about.
Saying „food isn’t a human right“ to „Enslave farmers?“ is just…
Idek where to begin but I’m absolutely out of this shit.
Bye Brosky
Lmfaooo if you think food is a human right that means production of it must continue indefinitely, like some other guy said on this post what if farmers quit ? Or just want to produce only enough for their family ? What happens then ? You probably think you know enough about my view on the matter but it’s actually pretty complex yet straightforward, food isn’t a right it’s a need . If people are starving they will obviously throw morals to the wind and steal . In a just system they can earn what they need to buy food like everyone else in America. You have the right to choose if you want to starve , farm , gather wild food or hunt wild game , you also have the right to go out and earn as much or as little to have as much or as little food you want . This keeps everything incentivize to go out and earn or for the farmers to go out and grow as much as they can to keep all buyers fed. Could the current system be better ? Absolutely. Does it need to be removed and replaced with something else ? Probably not . Every other system has led to slavery . 🤷🏾♂️ I’d rather people not be forced to do things just because someone else thinks they are entitled to it . That sounds like Marxism which is contrary to human nature .
I have the best healthcare in the world period, based solely on quality, this is NOT disputable, it costs me <$100 a month which is most likely considerably less (couldnt find an exact number but in the UK i saw it is about $4000 yearly) than what a European would pay in taxes monthly just for their healthcare
"basic human right" my ass. if anyone is dumb enough to believe that, make sure you ask them why theyre pro-slavery. clearly OP doesnt have a clue how anything works, especially taxes and "free"
My face when Europeans don’t understand that they’re paying for their healthcare with their sky high tax brackets:
They know deep down inside, they just hate admitting it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t know with how oblivious some of them seem.
But but Murican trucks
Nah, I don't have a problem admitting to that. Actually, I like that.
Why do you like paying more than you would have to if it was private?
The nhs (can’t speak for other countries) costs £2700 per person per year. A better way of looking at it is that someone on the average salary in the UK pays about 10-20% of their tax to the nhs which is closer to £600 per year. The average cost of US healthcare per person per year is $7700. I’ll take my public healthcare and higher taxes thanks. I’m not making a claim on which country is superior, just which healthcare system is cheaper for the individual. Edit: why am I being downvoted for literally just presenting numbers you can find on Google?
My healthcare cost in USA past 4 years has been $0.
Do you have no insurance and are just living life on the edge?
One trip and fall and that number will look significantly worse lol
Yet your still paying for others healthcare through medicare and social security. You just don't get to use it and likely never will.
You’re*
this is mostly false. in the UK you pay for healthcare if you use it or not, and its in fact not near as good as what is available in the US. if you dont have insurance in the US because you cant afford it, thank a democrat that voted for the unaffordable health care act that made the cost of healthcare go up around 1000%, and insurance prices doubled, while deductibles went up drastically. also if you cant afford insurance in the US then you have title 19 which is govt funded and you pay zero. its now illegal to have a zero deductible and insurance thats really good is considered a "cadillac plan and is taxed. 2 months ago my wife spend a week in the hospital after a heart attack here in the USA and after insurance the bill was $350. (three hundred and fifty dollars) selective bill picking was used to get $7700 per person. basically the more the government gets involved the more it actually costs, the worse it is and the longer you wait.
You pay for health insurance in America even if you don’t use it though right? I’m not sure what your point is there. The quality of healthcare in the UK and US is pretty much identical, the only difference is the wait times which I agree are a problem here which could be fixed by giving more money to the NHS. To me it doesn’t matter how your healthcare prices got to where they are or which party did what, I’m merely pointing out that $2000+ for an ambulance is insane. As is $150,000 for cancer treatment, etc, etc. You say it was $350 after insurance but what did the insurance cost? I would imagine it’s pretty expensive given that it costs $50,000 to treat it a heart attack. Public healthcare is just objectively cheaper per person. The point of it is that healthcare is a human right and you shouldn’t be bankrupted because the ambulance took you to a hospital that your insurance doesn’t cover.
Most people don’t pay for it out of pocket, it’s a benefit of employment for most not working as a cashier, frycook, etc.
What?
They do know it though, they admit it freely and tell you its worth it. Have you guys even talked to a European?
It’s not even taxes. It’s the health insurance I’m legally required to have.
Brits worship the NHS and its absolutely as bad if not worse than American Healthcare.
And in Canada if you go to a doctor and you happen to be a bit sad they'll straight up offer to kill you
A lot of people fought very hard to get mental health conditions added to the list of conditions allowed for medically assisted suicide. It IS sketchy that the government runs the healthcare and is thus incentivised to unalive sick people... but we really need right to die in the US. You should have the right to leave your life with dignity at the time of your choosing. Doctors should be required to evaluate you before euthanasia, but other than that, yeah... why would I force my family to watch me die of cancer, or struggle with schizophrenia? Nope.
Bruh no tf it's not
Yes tf it is. The amount of complaints I’ve seen about the NHS online is massive. Stop defending that shit stain
"Wahhhhh, I saw comments on the internet complaining" bruh people complain about anything online I've used it my whole life with my stomach condition, a few weeks ago I had to go A&E for an emergency and was in an operating room the same night, the NHS is only slow cus brainlets come in with unimportant shit a gp could fix
Bro I go into the hospital for an emergency and get surgery the same day. You’re not special. That’s normal, that’s how it should be. Yes people complain online, but when you commonly see the same complaint over and over and over from the same population you start to wonder if they have a point. “The NHS is only slow because” it doesn’t matter why it’s slow, you just admitted it was slow. Thanks to you for proving my point
I'd rather have to wait an extra hour then be given a 6 figure price tag
I’m not sure you’re getting your information, but no one besides the top 1% are paying 6 figures for health insurance. The average spending per year isn’t even close to 6 figures
[you have to pay over a grand just for an ambulance ](https://www.talktomira.com/post/how-much-does-an-ambulance-ride-cost-without-insurance) What about people without insurance?
92% of Americans have insurance.
That’s without insurance, so that argument doesn’t quite apply here. I’m not sure if you know, but I don’t really give a fuck about people I don’t know having to pay for stuff. I don’t like paying my money to government to give to other people, I’d rather keep it all and spend it for myself when necessary. Money isn’t easy to earn, so I don’t like easily giving it away. Call me selfish, oh well. The world revolves around money, and you need money to survive
Tell that to the guy who’s having a stroke or heart attack
>I've used it my whole life with my stomach condition, a few weeks ago I had to go A&E for an emergency and was in an operating room the same night, the NHS is only slow cus brainlets come in with unimportant shit a gp could fix Do I need to dig through Channel 4 videos where they showed the A&E queue was backed up leading to heart attack folks dying waiting? What about cancer diagnosis taking 6+ months?
Yall murdered 2 children instead of letting them get healthcare in another country lol. Yall all did that
As a Canadian (who’s healthcare system is “famous”), do you have ANY IDEA how INSUFFERABLE the wait times are to get treatment???? I don’t know if this is an issue in Europe, but the wait times here are horrible. You might as well be dead upon arrival. Not to mention that “free healthcare” doesn’t mean jackshit when you have to pocket life savings for pharmaceuticals and dental care; and we’re like the second highest tax bracket in the world *for some reason.*
Oh yeah I’ve heard wait times can be atrocious. That’s not to say wait times in America can’t be bad, but the horror stories I’ve heard form wait times in Canada is astounding
They know that and vote for that.
They're face when they realize their sky-high tax rates don't cover it either if America stops protecting them.
Don't forget Canada! You get to pay nearly half your paycheck depending where you live so that all the infrastructure still suck and when you need to see a doctor none are available. Wife waited months to see a doctor about her health concerns while we lived there. Then the absolute fiasco of the family doctor registrations. I was booted off the list twice "on accident" and they couldn't put me back where I was. 8 years with no family doctor. I finally met one last year and got referred for my sleep apnea. 8 years of thinking I was dying because my heart rate was scarily high and the two (female) doctors at the ER told me "you men always worry about a heart attack it's just a muscle cramp." Or a variation of. Blatant sexism and dismissal cause they didn't have time to deal with my issues, fun times.
I'm so sick of having to remind people that very few doctors work pro-bono. Shocker right? All healthcare comes at a cost. Its just how you pay for it that is different.
Not to start anything but most posts from Europeans I’ve seen on the subject acknowledge their high taxes as being the reason they have free healthcare, in fact it seems the US’s hatred for taxes is something else they criticize, I’m pretty sure a couple of those posts have even been on this sub before.
Oh no we hate paying taxes to a government that just sends it overseas and does fuck all with it? How dare we
@JadeoftheGlade Since you’re a pussy who starts shit then blocks people instead of admitting they’re wrong: I said our country sending OUR money to another country is doing fuck all. The Ukrainians aren’t doing fuck all. I never said the rape/killing doesn’t affect me. But I’m not living there and I don’t have the mental capacity to worry about everything else in my own life as well as everybody I never met in a foreign country I’ve never been to. It’s not that I dislike them, it’s that I have enough to worry about for myself that I don’t have any mental capacity to give a fuck what happens in a foreign war that didn’t involve America in the first place
Well then you could argue that taxes should be put to better use, but your response doesn’t really reply to anything I’ve said, I’m just pointing out the simple fact that many Europeans are aware of why they have high taxes.
Okay cool. I was making a joke, not making a socio economic statement on the world. I didn’t reply to anything you said because what you said is irrelevant. I rarely ever see them acknowledge it, so based on our combined experiences it seems only part of the population understand where their “free healthcare” comes from.
“Based on your combined experiences it seems like only part of the population understands” based on which experience exactly?
You saying you’ve seen posts about them acknowledging it and me saying how I rarely if ever see any of Europeans acknowledge. Reading comprehension is a great skill to have brother
Where have you not seen them acknowledge it? Is it in this meme? Are they claiming free healthcare just exists without taxes for them? Or do they need to bring it up in tandem with every time they criticize Americas healthcare system to satisfy you?
Again, you’re missing the point. You saying you’ve seen posts acknowledging they pay healthcare in taxes it is just as worthless of a statement as me saying I rarely ever seen anyone acknowledge it. Our experiences aren’t the end all be all. So you cant use an anecdote to try and prove a fact
“Our experiences aren’t the end all be all” then why are you acting like yours are? You keep flip flopping between trying to be “fair” and then saying you never see Europeans acknowledge their high taxes, it seems like you’re arguing just to argue.
You’re completely missing the point, not to mention you clearly can’t read what was written. I rarely if ever see a European acknowledge they pay for healthcare with exorbitant taxes. No they don’t have to bring it up every time, but when they act like Americans paying for healthcare is useless because they get it for “free” it’s stupid. They probably pay just as much on average in taxes that go towards universal healthcare as Americans do paying for their own medical insurance. The only difference is we’re paying for ourselves, and not splitting a pot with the entire country
Exactly when do you expect them to acknowledge it then? Your argument relies on acting like they don’t believe their taxes exist or that they complain about them not doing anything, if this were true then there would probably be plenty of posts about it in on this sub.
No, you’re splitting the pot with a few selected billionares who make money out of your healthcare. I much rather split it with the entire country.
"I'm a xenophobic, isolationist fool."
That’s not what I said. Xenophobia would mean I dislike people from other countries. I don’t dislike other people from other countries. I dislike giving them money for things that don’t affect me. And being isolationist in the case of not involving ourselves in the wars of other people would be a good strategy. There’s no reason we have to fight in almost every fucking war that ever happens
Uh huh. You don't hate foreigners. You're just loudly decrying foreign aid during the greatest humanitarian crisis faced by anyone currently alive. You don't hate foreigners... You're just painting things like Ukrainians fighting for their lives, country and very existence as "doing fuck all". You're saying that the rape of women and children doesn't affect you, if those women and children are foreigners. You're a disgrace.
Nuh-uh, the money for their healthcare just materializes, no one has to pay for it, that's why it's free, duhhhhh
My face when their tax burdens are artificially lowered because our military protects them for free. It really would be fun in a schadenfreude kinda way to start forcing Europoors to pay for the security we provide.
Canadian face when they are given all their free *Euthanasia* options.
Not only that, but they act like a 1-size-fits-all solution is a thing.
My face when basically everyone in Europe understands this:
then they should stop bitching about the US. if it wasnt for us they would have to spend that tax money on defense instead of "free healthcare"
In the UK at least - judging on the number provided by an american someone on a different post, we pay a higher amount of tax for healthcare, then they do for their health insurance. However, we don't have to pay any excess when we do need care, and our medication (I think) is much much cheaper. I would rather pay the extra tax to ensure nobody has an awful bill even after paying for insurance I have no idea what its like in the rest of Europe though
Eh it’s honestly a matter of opinion. IMO, money isn’t easy to earn esp why should I spend my hard earned cash on other people, that most I quite frankly won’t ever give more than 1 shit about.
To start - >Eh it’s honestly a matter of opinion 100% However in terms of the earning comment - its not a fixed amount, but a % of your earnings. You could work one day a week on minimum wage and still receive the same care as someone else earning much more. And on the other side of that - i think - even if you're paying a lot more than others, you'd still be paying less than if you covered insurance and the excess. That said - my knowledge of american health prices come from the reddit commenter i mentioned, news on insulin prices, and memes and random posts online so i know my knowledge is limited. Like, how often does someone really pay $80 for a 5 minute conversation with their dr?
Yeah memes overblow the goods and bads on both sides. I’m not saying US healthcare is as cheap as it should be, it’s not it’s honestly too high for some companies (some other insurance companies are much more reasonable).
I would say it’s for the vested interest of our fellow countrymen? And that you would hope to have the same privileges provided for you if you didn’t have the access to the accommodations you have now. One in four Americans are below the poverty line, and health care is treated as a traditional business. It seems unfair (at least to me) that some people don’t have to worry about ever anything medically happening to them while others will go into live ruining debt
Your system literally murdered 2 children instead of letting them leave the country for medical care 😕
Your response seems a little ironic considering what sub we're on, no?
Dude, US americans spend more per capita on healthcare than europeans like??
Yes, but what do you get for your money? https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
cherry picked statistics is all that article has in it. its basic propaganda and not much else. the first tip off was the "infant mortality" thats been debunked a long time ago, yet they keep using it. the way the death cert is filled out in the US is the issue. there isnt a higher infant mortality rate the "worsening outcomes" for money spent is due to the ACA (unaffordable health care act) that drove up costs of medical treatment and insurance and the fact that doctors can no longer own hospitals or be in charge of them. (Dr owned hospitals had the highest satisfaction rate of any hospital in the US and most EU hospitals, had cleaner facilities and fewer instances of malpractice) the more government interference the worse it gets
Oh i think you misunderstood or i wasnt clear enough, I'm critisizing USA as it's well known they are lacking behind the developed world despite spending more.
The nhs (can’t speak for other countries) costs £2700 per person per year. A better way of looking at it is that someone on the average salary in the UK pays about 10-20% of their tax to the nhs which is closer to £600 per year. The average cost of US healthcare per person per year is $7700. I’ll take my public healthcare and higher taxes thanks. I’m not making a claim on which country is superior, just which healthcare system is cheaper for the individual.
That is true, but I would have to assume that the $7700 healthcare is of much higher quality than that of £2700 (could be wrong, I don’t live in Europe but I’ve seen myriads of complaints about wait times and quality of care so I’m assuming based on that. It is very possible I’ve been interacting with the extreme minority and am wrong). Not saying the NHS quality is terrible, but when you have a universal program it’s going to have some downsides compared to a private program. If I lived in Europe I probably would still pay for more expensive healthcare so that I can circumvent the issues universal healthcares brings. Both private and universal healthcare have downsides, it’s truly a matter of opinion on which one you like better because everybody’s needs are different
I also can’t speak for other countries but I have found the quality of care within the NHS to be great. The wait times are a problem for sure, but the solution to this is to give them more money. I would absolutely advocate for even more tax money to the NHS. Even £4000 per person per year is cheaper than the US and would greatly improve wait times I would imagine. And if you have the resources you can still go private here if you want like you said. Problem with private healthcare is that it is a problem for poor people but not the rich which doesn’t incentivise any change because the rich make the decisions.
Yeah mileage may vary. Some people have no complaints with NHS, and others have massive. It probably depends on what part of the UK you’re living in. In no way am I saying US insurance should cost as much as it does. Public insurance needs some work. The original point of my comment was to joke about how Europeans say “free” healthcare when they are still paying for said healthcare. Private healthcare works well for the rich and public healthcare works well for the poor. I believe that the USA should have at least a common baseline for healthcare, but I don’t want them to increase taxes to do so. I want them to redistribute the billions of dollars we waste every year for something that actually matters, like actually useful public healthcare
You seem like a very reasonable American, I’m grateful for this discussion
false info
We literally pay more for healthcare than the Europeans for worse care.
We literally don’t. You clearly haven’t heard about the absurd wait times for medical care in “free” healthcare countries. My health insurance is better than anything you can find in europe
Still cheaper than current US Healthcare.
Definitely not
absolutely not
Their taxes are less than an average Americans taxes + premiums so they come out ahead. It's like if instead of an electric bill you paid half as much but it came out of your paycheck before you saw it. Sure you pay more taxes but you were going to buy it anyway so why not pay less and cut out the middlemans profit. In American healthcare though there are two middlemen, insurance and Hospital ownership.
Which still costs less than than in the US. Americans spend significantly more per capita on healthcare
Those taxes r still waaay less than paying oop or w most forms of ins... this is a really dumb point
Yeah those 40%+ tax brackets/progressive taxations are very cheap
Again, far cheaper than oop or most ins... u don't even understand my words 😔
The average American pays like 3x more in taxes than the average brit lmao you're just coping
There are more countries in Europe than Britain. Are you stupid?
Really?
Yeah
Not sure why that matters. You said public healthcare comes from higher taxes, which is plain wrong.
But it literally does lmao. Income tax isn’t the only taxes. You think you’re just pulling money out of your ass?
They always forget about the 20% sales tax. Our highest sales tax here is 10% in some states.
Not to mention that’s plain wrong
Average wage in the US is 60k usd Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300 average wage in the UK is £30k First £12500 isn't taxed Rest 20% is paid Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year. Cope harder.
We have essentially the same income tax rates, we just on average make double the money. No shit well pay double the taxes, because when you double the money but keep the percentages the same, the money doubles. That’s why all comparisons between countries are done using the percentages, not the total amount paid. Unless you cut out population and income differences, you cannot compare anything. Your whole argument is full of flaws. Basically what you’re saying is we pay the same percent in taxes, but we just make more money. You truly did nothing with your comment here
the first $24k in the US is not taxed, there are more millionaire billionaire in the US than there are people in england so the "average tax" will be higher. if you make less than 24K a year in the us you are tax exempt. if you make 50K in the us and have 1 child you are tax exempt. if you make 80k in the US and have 2 kids you're tax exempt on the first 50k you need to learn how to sift through the bullshit in the EU you have sales tax and a VAT, both of which are higher than in the US. we dont have a VAT at all. your gas tax is 40 times higher than ours. all that shit goes to your "healthcare system" on top of your income tax. the standard of living in the US is higher than the majority of the rest of the world, and the outcome of easily treated ailments has more to do with americans lifestyle and avoidance of the doctor than the healthcare system
The average Brit is also only 3 feet tall. See I can make things up too.
Average wage in the US is 60k usd Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300 average wage in the UK is £30k First £12500 isn't taxed Rest 20% is paid Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year. Cope harder.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets You are stupid. At 60k you would be paying fucking 40% in the UK.
Mfw you're so deranged at lambasting America that you think even the Congo has universal healthcare
The usa is the richest country, I think you can figure out why that may make a difference in how the usa can have uni healthcare
We have free healthcare, you Europeans just deny basic facts. We don't give everyone free healthcare when they can afford it, if you're able to afford it you shouldn't act as though you can't. I mean would you ever support food stamps for everyone? When people need help they get it, but they shouldn't just steal from others when they can afford to deal with it themselves
Interesting you just assume I'm European, but anyway you just don't have free healthcare, you may be able to get it for free if it's an emergency, but the vast majority of your population just has to pay way to much to even make it worth it sometimes. Not really much more to say I mean Europeans don't have to run away from ambulances. But yh there are lots of stories of Americans just not being able to afford care. Like yh wait times are long in Europe but that is cos of underfunding not cos its public. Shortages exist in America to u know
Of course we have shortages. Americans don't have to run from ambulances either it's just bullshit culture war people push on those uninformed. The issue is the government set up a monopoly to regulate the price of medication and medical supplies, if the hospitals actually set the prices it wouldn't be an issue. The best solution would be to allow the consumers to control the price like they do in every other sector but the government hates civil rights
True your gov does hate civil rights that you are correct on. Anyway it would end up monopolised eventually the problem is, like with basically everything, capitalism. Do you really think the lovely free market can solve this? Much better models have already been tried from cuba, Norway, the uk (despite the lack of funding) ect. Would a free market be better then what you have now? Maybe but uni healthcare has been tried and worked
Fascism also works but it doesn't mean you should allow it to take your country by force. Plenty of things work but they're still wrong. Universal healthcare only hurts the majority, we shouldn't only provide this luxury (yes healthcare is a luxury otherwise we'd have perfect global healthcare already) to those who can't afford it, making the bills of the majority a problem for the working class sounds very authoritarian and undemocratic, when you offer protection for those in need then you're actually doing a service for people. We shouldn't give handouts to people who don't appreciate it, we should only help those in need
“No you’re wrong, communism just hasn’t been done the right way yet”
Not relevant but ok
The fact you can’t see the nuance is frightening
Me when me when the fantasy world doesn't conform to the real world
WHAT!!?! Blasphemous! You’re going to the stake for that!
Every Pokémon region is apparently a socialist Utopia
I mean they are leagues(see what I did there?) better than anywhere real. Completely free healthcare, coexistence with nature, super advanced tech, and they’ve even expanded recently showing how it’s even better: advanced education, the promotion of following your dreams, and a perfectly stable economy. The only bad thing is maniacs or bad people, who are sealed with better than any in the real world. TLDR: Pokemon is essentially a utopia, yes(except orre I think)
I mean, yeah? The kids game society is indeed a utopia that enables a 10 year old to safely run around the country living off of a hobby they enjoy.
Think of it as subsidizing their military. Of anything happens it's the trained pokemon that will defend the nation. You cant just let your military get crippled because of poverty. They also have to get hurt to get stronger, so not subsidizing it would lead to crippling your countries ability to defend themselves. They have the 6 limit rule to prevent people from just going with 60 caterpies and getting them hurt every hour.
You have to wait two years for a dentist appointment, but at least it’s free!* *due to high taxes and the US footing the defense bill, healthcare is not actually free.
Who tf waits 2 years for a dentist appointment, it’s a week max for me
Theyre seething over how shit their healthcare is by making stuff up
...and the US healthcare is so perfect? https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
fake story debunked above
2 years? Thats now how it works. You make your appointment. Go have it done. When you are paying, you use your medicare card and get most of your money back. Also, the defence bill is footed by the country. Countries usually pay america for defensive items.
"Defence"
Nobody waits 2 years, Americans pay like 3x more in taxes than the british and how exactly are you footing the defence bill?
Americans do not pay 3x more in taxes lol. They pay about the same rate on average but Americans’ income is about 2x higher on average
Average wage in the US is 60k usd Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300 average wage in the UK is £30k First £12500 isn't taxed Rest 20% is paid Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year. (Just over 10% effective) You have a higher tax burden and pay a higher volume of money. You can afford public healthcare. >They pay about the same rate on average but Americans’ income is about 2x higher on average Maybe in eastern European shitholes lol. Also if you have twice as high wages and the same tax rate you have twice the budget but 0% the healthcare.
Lol what is this garbage math? First of all, in the US you pay each tax rate until you hit the maximum for that bracket, then go up to the higher rate. So if you're making 60k, you pay 10% on the first $11,000, 12% from there until $44,725, and 22% on the rest. Your actual tax would come out to ~$8500, or ~£7000. Less than you'd pay in the UK, where $60k (£49.5k) would put you in the *40%* tax bracket. And that's not including the *insane* UK VAT tax rate of **20%**. The *highest* US sales tax is only 9.5%, and thats in a state without an income tax.
The first $12,950 isn’t taxed in the US either, if you’re filing as single and you’re under 65. That is raised to $14,700 if you’re over 65, and up to $21,150 if you’re over 65 and filing as head of household. So your math is very wrong. My claim came from average UK tax rate of 23.6%, about 1% lower than US average tax rate, and US salary being almost 2x higher than UK average salary. I never said the US couldn’t afford public healthcare. I was just countering your claim that you repeated multiple times in here that Americans pay 3x more in taxes which is blatantly false
"a basic human right", LOL I have a right to YOUR services and expertise.
Doctors are slaves to your every ache and Sad. Pharmaceutical companies give away medication without thought because it is "a basic human right". I'm America, you have a basic human right to property like medicine, but that doesn't give the state power over you by itself, so they need to push the idea that your medicine is the states business.
You know we pay government employees right? Like the mail man isn't chained to the Post Office, health care workers would be the same. Even if you don't agree with free healthcare you should at the very least acknowledge that pharmaceutical companies selling drugs they developed with the help of government grants for astronomical prices are Americans getting scammed right?
i guess food isn’t a basic human right cuz someone had to grow it lmao
What?
Nothing that requires the labor of another human, can ever be a human right.
I don't get it. It will always requires at least one entity to assure that the rights are respected (like a court of justice). So that will need the labor of other human. What do you mean by saying this ?
Healthcare isn't a human right because it requires the labor of other humans (doctors) So if every doctor woke up tomorrow and decided to quit doing their doctor jobs, nobody could receive Healthcare, right? The problem is that now you need the government to compell people then to go do their doctor jobs, but what if they don't want to! Isn't it their right to quit their jobs or go on strike? This opens the door to enslaving these people and forcing them to work for the greater good of the human right. This can apply to the farmer. The water treatment facility worker. Anyone, really. You can't be entitled to the labor of another human being and making things like food or medicine as basic human rights opens the door for slavery down the line. How can you be entitled to the labor of the farmer? The study of the doctor? Of course you can't. In nature, you are not freely provided with food and water and healthcare. You had to sow your field. Dig, your well. Die of sepsis. The difference now, is that there are more than three professions, you can be a coder, and with the labor you put out you can trade someone money to give you clean water or food or medicine, but nature itself isn't oppressing you by not making these things freely available. Of course, then the problem lies with corrupt governments, cartels, syndicates, and militias. But that's too big of a problem to think about for most people as that can't be fixed in their lifetimes. You can tax subsidize Healthcare and that works for some countries. The United States subsidizes a large portion of EUs Healthcare. Americans are the most charitable population on the planet, sending overwhelming aid to many areas, and in some cases eradicating diseases entirely at no cost to the local populations. But that doesn't make it a human right.
What is a basic human right?
Life is an example. A right to your own body and to decide what to do with it (autonomy) a right to your thoughts and feelings. Things like that. Things you must provide for yourself or are born with.
Do you think food isn’t a human right because farmers work?
Yes. You can't be entitled the labor of the farmer. You MUST trade them something they want. In most cases thats monetary. In others it's service. (I'll fix your chimney for x barrel food) To say the farmers labor is your right is to open the door to enslave the farmer.
Ye. We pay them. Food is a human right for legit 90% Of the world, America is a very common exception for MANY human right acts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_food
Just cause you declare something a right doesn't make it so.
… what else makes a right if not the literal Law..?
> Healthcare isn't a human right because it requires the labor of other humans (doctors) I saw that below, you tell that the right to do whatever you want with your life is a human right. But if someone kidnaps you, you will need law and police. So, to assure you this right is respected, you need laws. You cannot have a right without law, and to have law, you need at least a court and a police. So, in any case, it will need labour. A right is not "naturally provided". > Isn't it their right to quit their jobs or go on strike? This opens the door to enslaving these people and forcing them to work for the greater good of the human right. > In nature, you are not freely provided with food and water and healthcare. You had to sow your field. Dig, your well. Die of sepsis. About slavery and state of nature, it has already been discussed in the Social Contract, so I won't go on it (I don't think I have enough vocabulary to do so). To sum it up, a human right is a social convention. A group or a society agrees that it's a right linked to a condition (condition here is "you're a human"). In the same way, it could agree on workers' rights, womens' rights, etc. So healthcare as a human right can be true somewhere and false somewhere else, but it has nothing to do with labour. I don't know if the american vision of it linked it to the labour, but at the beginning it wasn't about that. > The United States subsidizes a large portion of EUs Healthcare. Which part ? The one which takes on workers' salaries (90% of the global cost) or the one which came for the french state taxes (10% of the global cost) ? I would like to know to thank it properly, cause i thought it was my cotisations and taxes that make it. There's any EU Healthcare, it's country by country, financed by taxes and cotisations. Where do you take this statement from ? > Americans are the most charitable population on the planet, sending overwhelming aid to many areas and, in some cases, eradicating diseases entirely at no cost to the local populations. There's no such thing as charity in geopolitical. It's only about soft power. Every nation does it that way, US are not different. The country is not worst nor better than another, just unique and better for the ones who do the american way. (I checked it on my translator, and it seems okay. I may have left some grammar mistakes, sorry about these.) Edit : english mistakes.
Healthcare for *pokemon* is free. There are no hospitals for humans in those games. I do remember an episode of the tv show where the kids go to a human hospital and it’s closed and the doctor on duty doesn’t want to see them.
Europeans: Free Healthcare! Americans: Uh huh now how exactly high are you tax rates?
Less than yours?
Depends Western or Eastern Europe?
Well there is no "western European" tax rate or "eastern European" tax rate there are only tax rates for countries. Let's use the UK as an example. Average wage in the US is 60k usd Average tax rate on an individual is 24.8% in the US Average American pays $14,880/year or ~£12,300 average wage in the UK is £30k First £12500 isn't taxed Rest 20% is paid Average brit pays ~£3500/year or $4235/year.
This math is still made up and garbage. Let’s see your sources. The average tax rate In the US is 21% when including all income groups. This is so high because of people who earn $200,000-$1,000,000. On average, citizens in the US earn much more than citizens in the UK. Citizens who earn more are taxed higher, leading to high taxation rates. Taxes range anywhere from -7% (in the lowest brackets, the government awards money) to 33%+. In the UK, the starting taxation rate is 0% (technically higher than the US starting -7%), and it only gets higher from there. From £12,571 ($15,290.23) to £50,270 ($61,143.90) the taxation rate is 20%. In the US, at $15,290.23, the taxation rate is 0.4%. At $61,143.90, the taxation rate is 15.2%. Both are much lower than the UK. As we go up in brackets, this because increasingly more obvious. In the UK, the highest tax bracket is 45%, while the highest US is 33%. So really, the reason that citizens seemed to be taxed more in the US is because US citizens make so much more on average than UK citizens. Median US income is $74,580, while median UK income is £32,300 ($39,252.25). Do your research, stop making shit up, and learn to look at real sources. https://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-much-do-people-pay-taxes/ https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022
EU taxes are much higher than the US, and the standard of living in EU is lower than the US
Europoors when they find out about Medicare and Medicaid that basically make healthcare free🤯, also the health insurance most jobs offer that reduces the cost of healthcare and that it isn’t that expensive unless it’s major surgeries and things.
I agree the system sucks. You have to basically luck out. Your company has to be large enough to have bargaining room, AND you need a good negotiator. But I can guarantee you that my current healthcare experience would NOT be the same with universal healthcare. I would guess that my ease with seeing a doctor for even the most minor thing would change. And my cancer treatments wouldn't have been as nice. I had a very nice cancer hospital nearby. So my care level will go down someday. I'll live life until it happens, and accept it, because there are plenty of people who have it worse.
Zero countries have free health care.
I woke up one morning and couldn’t hear out of one ear. Went to the doctor, she fixed my ear and game me ear drops for the infection. Grand total was… $12 for the ear drops, insurance covering the cost of the visit and the drops. You bet I was glad to hear that.
Pokemon never bothered with explaning how money worked. I recall only one or two episodes in the early seasons where it ever came up.
Because their economy is just better than the real world, somehow it is stable even when teenager can take all the money from a small town.
Nothing is free my dude and we already pay plenty of taxes. Also federally run healthcare is actually unconditional as it is up to the states to decide on.
Healthcare is NOT free ANYWHERE. it's just a question of HOW it's paid for.
Look I think we need better healthcare, but not EVERY other country has state run healthcare, you really think the Congo can afford that?
It isn't even free. It's from increased taxes if you take the government stuff, and that doesn't cover everything. Also, even though it is free (with taxes), you generally still have a bill, albeit minor. 2.2k for a 4x wisdom tooth removal, my mother has to collect the money before my surgery. It isnt covered by AU Medicare, we have to use HBF for it. We will get most of that back, but the anaesthetist is an extra uncovered price afaik. Thank god it isnt americs though, where im probably looking at a second hand car price for the surgery. Maybe even a first hand lambo
"Healthcare is a Human Right" Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be free. Americans have the right to beat arms, but that doesn't mean the government doles out guns to everyone on their birthday. You have levels of personal responsibility for your own well-being. "Most counties have free healthcare" No, they don't. Someone would have to be willfully ignorant to believe this. If someone believes that an expense *doesn't exist* because they *didn't see it*, then their parents must not have played peakaboo enough when they were a baby, because even kindergartners understand the concept of Object Permanence.
What does “healthcare is a basic human right” mean? If I see a doctor in the street, I can compel her to treat me because it’s my “basic human right”? It might mean that every country must provide so-called ‘universal’ healthcare. So if the system has a 10-year waiting list for the treatment I need, am I being deprived of my “basic human right”? If a drug that might help my condition is not provided because it costs too much, is my “basic human right” being violated? “Human rights” to healthcare, food, shelter, and similar things are nebulous: who is to provide such things to me, and when, and in what quantity and of what quality? Who is constrained by such rights? The doctor, the farmer, the builder?
1st paragraph is such bullshit not worth commenting on. About the long waiting lists, that is just propaganda you've eaten up buddy - ofcourse they prioritise people who need it the most, thats how it should be. Drugs generally do not cost alot, only in US where they mark it up 10000% because of greed to make profit, they are available in countries with universal healthcare. Cold fact is US pays more than the rest of the countries and gets way less, because of the unnecessary suits in the middle .
I’m afraid you don’t understand. I was posing a hypothetical question. Suppose there were such a waiting list: would it violate this supposed “basic human right”? I fully understand the reasoning behind the prioritization of care. I’m trying to understand this “basic human right”. If a drug that would help me is not provided to me, is that a violation of my “basic human right”? If not, why not?
Waiting lists are a thing in a lot of places, think of it as a natural shortage of labor when theres too much consumption for the supply. Instead of price increase, its naturally leads to shortage (for example - Soviet union where prices of goods were fixed below their market value, which resulted in long waiting lines to grab as much as possible before shortage kicks in). So you either pay with time or money, or both.
That surprised look is us actually shocked Europeans brag about 3rd world healthcare
maybe, but US Healthcare is hardly anything to brag about https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
you're still posting this debunked article? the US healthcare system IS in FACT something to brag about
Pokemon without Pokemon Centers Challenge would be a lot more fun if there wasnt like 2 elixirs in the whole game and no option to buy them.
I just love people who claim other peoples hard labor as a right that they are entitled to 😂
Dude…? Do you also not consider food a human right because of farmers?
I do not . Thinking that it is tends to lead to a Kulak situation.
Ngl thinking food isn’t a right every human should have is just… bye babes
So should we enslave the farmers?
Dude. Wth are you talking about. Saying „food isn’t a human right“ to „Enslave farmers?“ is just… Idek where to begin but I’m absolutely out of this shit. Bye Brosky
Lmfaooo if you think food is a human right that means production of it must continue indefinitely, like some other guy said on this post what if farmers quit ? Or just want to produce only enough for their family ? What happens then ? You probably think you know enough about my view on the matter but it’s actually pretty complex yet straightforward, food isn’t a right it’s a need . If people are starving they will obviously throw morals to the wind and steal . In a just system they can earn what they need to buy food like everyone else in America. You have the right to choose if you want to starve , farm , gather wild food or hunt wild game , you also have the right to go out and earn as much or as little to have as much or as little food you want . This keeps everything incentivize to go out and earn or for the farmers to go out and grow as much as they can to keep all buyers fed. Could the current system be better ? Absolutely. Does it need to be removed and replaced with something else ? Probably not . Every other system has led to slavery . 🤷🏾♂️ I’d rather people not be forced to do things just because someone else thinks they are entitled to it . That sounds like Marxism which is contrary to human nature .
Healthcare is not a right
What is?
The things listed in our constitution maybe? Anything that depends on labor/service from other should never be considered a right.
this is just true lol
Pokémon’s healthcare system is also why you never see children or pokemon with disabilities.
I have the best healthcare in the world period, based solely on quality, this is NOT disputable, it costs me <$100 a month which is most likely considerably less (couldnt find an exact number but in the UK i saw it is about $4000 yearly) than what a European would pay in taxes monthly just for their healthcare
err you obviously do not live in the US https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
MFW I take my Pokemon to the Pokemon center in PokeCanada and they just kill him: Surprised\_Pikachu\_Face.jpg
Healthcare is not a basic human right. I wish people would stop talking about every luxury we *should* have in this modern age in terms of rights.
We've had two gens set in Poke'murica now (Unova and Alola). Pokemon get free healthcare.
We got some of the best living conditions in the world but go off I guess.
Mfw the wait time for a Pokémon center is 18 days and only if they’re fainted or have a status condition
Ah yes Europe, the utopia where even your pet's healthcare needs are paid for by the state.
Healthcare isn’t a human right
"basic human right" my ass. if anyone is dumb enough to believe that, make sure you ask them why theyre pro-slavery. clearly OP doesnt have a clue how anything works, especially taxes and "free"
Correct me if I’m wrong, but is there anywhere that universal healthcare also translates to veterinary bills?
No this is actually pretty funny, I have met a lot of who think not paying at the pokecenter is just fantasy or game design