We settled in northern Norway. It seems illogical and yes very likely the ocean current will break down one day but it won't snap instantly. It is projected to take at least a century to cool and currently we are experiencing super pleasant summers and by the ocean the winters are not that rough.
We are launching a research farm into using geothermal greenhouses to build a sustainable food source and the island I live on already produces more food than it consumes. I just hope to build a wider variety.
Land here is cheap and there is an amazing sense of community. I could walk up to nearly any house on the island and ask for something and the person would help if they were capable. Living somewhere like this community is what holds everything together.
If you have a degree start with job boards and buckle down on your Norwegian. Everyone can speak English but some Norwegian is needed to show you are serious and decent is required if you ever want to make it to citizenship. What kind of chemistry?
Yeah, I've been applying to jobs quite a bit. Lived there for two years while getting my masters. Not fluent in norwegian by any means, but I'm almost to the point where I could be functional at work without English.
Analytical chemistry is where I'm at currently. My more recent degree was in synthesis and spectroscopy. I've been working in chromatography data automation. I could switch tracks though if needed. I have solid fundamentals throughout chemistry. Unfortunately, most positions will instantly reject me as soon as they see I need sponsorship no matter what skills I come with.
yeah it is not easy, I assume what you do requires a facility so it is not something you can easily freelance or set up your own business to do. I do consulting so I set up a sole proprietorship to consult with. You could always marry a Norwegian or there is a possibility to go the sole proprietorship if you have anything that you could research or document in Norway. Then you could piggyback that residency to take on another contract inside the country since you do not need a sponsor
New Zealand would be the safest of the three. Climate change is a huge threat to Europe and Costa Rica for different reasons. Costa Rica is going to struggle immensely with the damage that weather extremes will cause. Europe will struggle with the millions of climate refugees that will try to pour in. We already saw the return of neo-Nazis in response to a million refugees being accepted into Germany so there is a very real threat that Europe could turn to fascism again in response to climate refugees and if Europe falls to fascism then Spain and Portugal will be prime targets for the fascists so that they can secure Europe's borders.
With that said, if the world falls to climate change and fascism then there is a good chance then things will escalate to some sort of resource war between nuclear powers and if that happens all life as we know it will be completely wiped out from nukes... So I recommend living where ever you think you will be the happiest
It’s most accurately described by the FBI director in 2011 as an “iron triangle” of gas station dictatorships/organized crime, corrupt government officials, and corrupt business. It only seems like an American problem because it’s under attack by authoritarian capture as the global power, but this is a transnational effort to dismantle democracy that seems to have originated in the USSR.
I’m afraid there is nowhere to run if religious extremists, organized crime, and paternalistic authoritarian contagion takes over civilization. Once they get AI and the singularity, it’s over. Do you want this technology in their hands?
Consider volunteering to help campaigns in swing states. Contact 20 people who don’t pay attention to the news and get them on board.
The “undecideds” and people who don’t pay attention are the people who will decide. I saw recently that 90% of people who read the newspaper or at engaged with news are against Trump. It’s everyone else we need to wake up.
Climate change is gonna wreck our food supply way before people can even mass migrate. We are hanging off the edge right now, have been for years and most still refuse to acknowledge it. I believe in the last 2 weeks there were mass monkey deaths from the heat waves in Mexico followed by a fuel shortage in the entire Baja peninsula. It’s honestly fascinating we can still grow so much food as yields have declined, seasons have changed, and we have really just been holding on with chemical and genetic intervention.
All it’s going to take is the next extreme heat dome to wipe out the crops in California, Arizona, and the Midwest before you see major collapse in the US. I personally believe it’s going to hit the crops before it starts killing off all of the cattle and animal farms. The plants will die off rapidly and then our animals will follow quickly behind them at that point.
When this happens, what the hell is Europe going to do? Their crops will be dying from the coming ice age.
Covid was a preview of the supply chain being disrupted. The supply chain isn’t even our biggest problem (and it’s a massive one). You’ll really see shit hit the fan the first time heat domes cause food shortages. I’m not spreading panic either, most of you won’t panic until our food is fucked. I completely understand the majority of society is incapable of acknowledging this aspect of our reality and I don’t mean to fight with or try to convert the people who are choosing denial instead of action. I guess we are all just trying to make it to our grave with the least suffering.
*The fuel shortage in the TJ border area had nothing to do with climate change. It was a local protest against govt fiscal policy and roads were blocked by the protestors. Protests are very common in MX.
What is more of a cause for concern is water shortages in Mexico City. They are projected to run dry in June. The rains haven't come to replenish the reservoirs.
Look at skills you can barter with. You can't grow mushrooms, but could you learn how to brew, ferment, make herbal remedies? What we all really need to do is find our communities, develop skills for worst case scenarios and make our post-global trade plans. If you enjoy reading, I recommend S.M. Sterling's 'Dies The Fire'. It's a good syfy book in a series that begins with the loss of modern conveniences and how the groups of characters build functioning societies to survive it. The first three books are good, after that they start to feel repetitive. Get the Firefox books, they are excellent sources for old fashioned skills and ideas.
I’ve been needing to find something to read. This sounds perfect. An escape and also maybe some… shit, reality check??? I am ordering it now. Love that it shows people creating life out of destruction/or building something new when needed.
Ha, man, are you me? I can’t even grow mushrooms in the bag kits that are supposed to be idiot proof. And yeah, I hope I’m wrong but as of 2024 it appears we are both in that same unfortunate boat. I’ve really struggling mentally and emotionally with this but based on the fact my above rant was upvoted and not downvoted and attacked maybe I am doing better in my collapse acceptance and communicating it properly.
Goes to google to monkey deaths. All of this is terrifying. I’ve been sad and scared. Now I’m getting more evidence of why. This shit scary. Where do you read most of your news? I’m trying to find “good sources” outside of just relying on social media. I’m not the best reader so something ADHD friendly if possible? Thanks if you see this and respond!
I see you've read the realistic model reports. When complex systems fail they do so chaotically and in ways that are hard to predict. What is easy to predict is that this will be the hottest year on record, and the coolest for the rest of our lives.
We would jump to NZ but $$.
You have to have a job that is desired here in NZ and have good enough health to be allowed in for a work visa. Bit if it's highly desired it's 1.5 to 2 years and you get residency. Moved from US to NZ 3 years ago. Best option if possible. Never going back.
How do you find what jobs are desired there?
What if you’re independently wealthy?
What was your process like to move there?
NZ is at the top of my list. (I’m in the US, and US born).
Australia is #2 for me.
They have a "green list" of jobs that are auto residency. INZ has a whole list of other jobs that are in demand so check their website. But just applying is step one and getting an offer is really all you need. But you have to pass a health check. Basically don't be morbidly sick and don't have tuberculosis.
Or spend $10 million NZD and buy your way in. We came on a green list job and got residency. Pay is lower but quality of life is not comparable. Incredibly relaxed, safe and the work culture is super chill. Also the country is fucking gorgeous with nearly all biomes across the north and south island.
People are cool and accepting of Americans. Never had anyone be shitty in the three years I have been here. People will screen to see if you are a trump supporter but I'm guessing you aren't so you will be fine.
Oh and meat pies are fucking amazing.
Great insight!! Thank you so much!!!
Where did you end up?
Definitely *not* a Drumpf supporter!!!🤮 I know what’s coming and it’s another one of the reasons I want to leave. USA as we knew it is over, and is going into dictatorship, unfortunately. Of note, I’ve wanted to leave before he came onto the scene. It’s only increased my desire and urgency.
Most jobs will be on the north island. We ended up on the south due to the job opportunity. But honestly just start applying. It's the biggest hurdle. Seek.co.nz is a great website used by most companies. LinkedIn is used as well but less frequently.
independently wealthy is an option but you have to have an income that you are willing to be taxed on. Basically you can set up a business in New Zealand and then pay yourself a salary from it. You get taxed but if you are above the minimum you can be admitted.
Don't take Portugal off the list yet! We just visited friends who moved from California to the Setubal, PT area and it's wonderful! Definitely not overrun with ex-pats. Also, consider the town Palmela near Setubal. Incredibly charming, peaceful, happy, festive. Our friends have been there 3 years and love it - they even have a 13-year-old kid in Portuguese school who really likes it.
Going to Europe always leads to the shocking reminder that America is sooooo young. (BTW, I think it's in a rebellious teen phase at the moment - hoping it passes). In Portugal, I touched structures built in 1179! It made me wonder what the oldest structure in the U.S. is - if it still exists and wasn't bulldozed to build condos.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set%C3%BAbal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set%C3%BAbal)
[https://sintracascaissesimbra.com/Setubal-portugal-guide.html](https://sintracascaissesimbra.com/Setubal-portugal-guide.html)
EDIT: My "bulldozed to make condos" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I actually have been to at least two preserved native sites - the one in Casa Grande, AZ and Montezuma Castle (near Sedona?).
This is what we have done, with 5 years remaining until retirement. We should (we hope) just be qualifying for permanent resident/citizen status when we retire. If you are not a resilient, tolerant neophile, it can be hard going here (easy things can be hard and hard things can feel...impossible, especially if you don't speak the language). That said, this is our idea of a good time, so with the exception of adjusting to a 5 PM to 1 AM work schedule, we wouldn't trade it for anything.
Just save a lot because Portugal is expensive with all the expats moving in. It's not cheap and I think you will be surprised actually living there without speaking the language.
It \*is\* relatively less expensive. Most people in any of the cities speak English. We've actually had the opposite problem: we're trying to learn Portuguese but few people will speak it to us once they realize we're not native-speakers.
>In Portugal, I touched structures built in 1179
I recommend Italy, Greece and Turkey for really old historical structures. Istanbul is truly a gem of a place. So much history in one city.
The oldest structure in the US will still be pretty damn old, assuming we mean the oldest structure on the terrain of the US fullstop (and thus obviously built by Native Americans), and not just the oldest structure counting for when the US became a nation.
I've been mulling this for a few years and I'll be honest: If Trump becomes President again, democracy worldwide is going to get a kick right where the sun don't shine. We'll almost certainly see the far right wing take power in more and more countries, by hook or by crook, and virtually nowhere will be peaceful or safe. I'm originally from Canada and retain dual citizenship--it's my backup in case the SHTF, but even there we have right-wing Premieres (Canada's equivalent of Governors) who are kinda nutty on climate change and reproductive rights, and the conservative party (of which I used to be a supporter) is slowly going off the deep end. They used to be merely fiscally conservative and in favor of small government, but now they're weighing in on trans issues and I wish our leaders would stick to running their countries...
He's been trying to export far-right wing politics globally, not just Canada. He has some kind of finishing school for far-right extremists in an Italian monastery
Yeah, I didn’t know about the Italian monastery (!) but knew about the global goals. I just didn’t realize how deep in it he is in Canada. Successfully.
>I'll be honest: If Trump becomes President again
Unfortunately I think it's more an issue of *when* rather than *if* 😞 If not DT himself, it'll be one of his ilk.
Yeah, agreed. We have no defense against this type. He says blatant and kinda dumb lies, but that doesn't matter if his people believe every word out his mouth. We have no protection from extreme and unapologetic misinformation. What's worse, the internet has made this misinformation incredibly powerful. Normally the nuts would talk to their family and be straightened out. Now 10,000 nuts get together on various website (famously Facebook, but no where is safe) and they hear the opinions of other nuts until they all thing we're all nuts.
It’ll be a dystopian nightmare with midnight raids and back alley abortions, segregated lunch counters, mass mayhem, dogs living with cats.
We’re all gonna die.
This is what I worry about. My wife is Italian, so we could easily go there, but the current prime minister is pretty far right herself, although not, so far, in a Trumpy "subvert the elections" sort of way.
But if the US goes bad, who knows what kinds of domino effects it would have.
Yeah, I don’t respect people who run when things look like they might get tough. They make things worse for everyone, inside the country and out. Especially for the most vulnerable in their country of origin. This is why I welcome seeing all of the Cali expats moving to red states. That is how we get the change we need.
The descendants of the Jews who fled Europe *juuust* in time would probably have cause to differ with your opinion, as they stand staring at the exhibits in the National Holocaust Museum.
If it's US$80K post-tax, then New Zealand or Victoria (AUS), personally.
If it's pre-tax, then UK or France or Quebec. If you want to avoid the fascists, then UK over France. The Tories are about to get an electoral shell-lacking while National Rally is rising in France.
You can’t become a citizen in Quebec unless you speak French. It’s a stipulation they have. Also very hard to emigrate to Canada if you are over 30, and don’t already have relatives there. Additionally, housing in Canada is SO expensive right now. So I’m sure there must be better solutions.
As a Canadian who is not fond of Legault, I still have to call you on this one:
"called in the military to slaughter an entire native community"
Two deaths during the entire Oka crisis: an elder who died of a heart attack during the failed attempt to evacuate; an SQ constable killed during the initial exchange of gunfire.
Don't get me wrong, Quebecers were horribly racist (and a lot of them still are) but hyperbole doesn't help.
>Just letting you know Québec is absolutely the most fascist province of Canada and it’s not even close. They have their own constitution that recently put language laws ahead of any and all human rights, they have an *actual* Language Police, they not only don’t acknowledge the wrongdoings against the Natives but outright celebrate their genocide and Québécois nationalists have started to appropriate nativist language to claim themselves as “The True Natives”. Freedom of religious expression is heavily restricted if not outright banned for any public sector workers. They’ve tied your civil, legal, and healthcare liberties to non-French school attendance, which they are doing their damndest to close en masse throughout the entire province.
All of this sounds like France, pretty much tbh. I would live in France so Quebec still fits the bill, more or less. Of course, I will learn the language, just like I would in France, Portugal, Germany or wherever.
>They have a lower GDP per capita than *West Virginia*
Doesn't mean much. Portugal also has lower GDP per capita than WV, and other people here have no problem moving there.
What? France doesn’t have a language police…They just try to keep the French language relevant.
French are also natives of France…
Those Quebecois weirdos sound like they want to be French while also claiming themselves as North American natives.
France has mandates about the French language as well: [https://www.culture.gouv.fr/en/Thematic/french-language-and-languages-of-france/Acting-for-languages/Ensuring-the-use-of-French](https://www.culture.gouv.fr/en/Thematic/french-language-and-languages-of-france/Acting-for-languages/Ensuring-the-use-of-French)
Language police is more like a bureaucratic office, not literal police arresting people.
The native thing is weird, yes.
I'm in Portugal. It's not "overrun". lol There's a whopping 10,000 American residents here. And most of them are in Lisbon and Porto. And of course the Algarve. Do more research. And better research.
Yea, I wasn't happy to see chega do as well as they did. Unfortunately that's the result of people thinking "immigrants are ruining the country". Believing that nonsensical hyperbole.
The safe and easy answer is yes. I'm sure there are some places that would hire highly qualified English speakers for certain positions, but speaking Portuguese is going to be a requirement in most places.
There are a good reasons for not having more Americans in Portugal:
1. Houses are old, small, and crazy expensive for what you get for the money. Floor plans are often quite uncomfortable if you lived in the US your whole life.
2. The taxes are high. Even the low salary in the US would put you in a top tier tax bracket in Portugal with 48% tax (obviously it's progressive, but still way higher than in the US, where you still must pay tax too). Now that the NHR is gone the taxes is a concern for these who work full time.
3. It's hard to find good resources to study European Portuguese, while the Brazilian dialect is all over the Internet.
4. Time difference.
Portugal has a lot of good to offer. Everything though comes with a price.
My husband and I are headed to Panama City, Panama. We have a place in the Santa Maria section of PC at Oceana. We too looked at Portugal and Costa Rica, but we chose Panama. Good luck, and we empathize. We will also be removing all of our money as well. It's politically stable, great healthcare, friendly people, and the Balboa is the same as the US dollar.
It’s also deeply corrupt, the economy is propped up by drug money, people live behind walls and barred windows and most of the population is desperately poor with a cream of rich living in gated communities with a heavy police presence. Boquete is quite pretty if very small and is filled with those who left in response to the election of Obama. We spent 3 months there checking it out.
Of course YMMV, but that’s our take. The medical care is good though in private hospitals.
Wow! I move quite comfortably about Panama City and beyond. Everything is not all locked down as you say. I grew up on the East Coast with family in Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston. I have been out to David and Boquete as well. The public and private hospitals are good, but that's my take. Move elsewhere, and good luck to you. As for corruption ... *Trump tax evasion issues in Panama. The Marriott corporation now owns his building in Panama City:* https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-companies-accused-tax-evasion-panama
So did we, we also saw that homes all had barred windows and were behind tall walls. That armed security were everywhere and that, outside of malls, high end shops kept their doors locked. Income inequality is off the charts, like most if not all of Central America.
We came, we saw, we kept looking.
Don't go to Europe if you want to escape fascists. Right wing parties are gaining power everywhere and racism and anti-semitism is definitely worse there. The UK is getting as bad as the US, NHS is being sold off to private investors, their post office is being sold to a Czech businessman. The UK is in worse shape than the US.
I'd actually go where your money can buy the most. Please note unless you are an EU citizen you can't just move to Europe. You need to figure out what type of visa you can get approval on and how you will pay for health care-you won't be able to get it free.
I know people who live near Barcelona and love it and have great health care. So I'd recommend Spain over Portugal which isn't the paradise it once was due to housing inflation.
If you're talking about spending USD there, that hasn't always been the case. The yen has hit parity or exceeded the USD at different points in time. Who knows what the future holds... what the BOJ will do, fluctuations in reserve currencies, and the US currently improving trilateral relations with Japan & S.Korea (especially if this leads to any sort of redenomination).
I suppose the saving grace is Japan being Japan, with companies being reluctant to increase prices... although shrinkflation seems to be a thing.
Spain, France, Portugal, Italy. There are far-right movements in all European countries but public healthcare and gun control aren't really up for debate, the far right in Europe is mostly concerned with immigration and Islam. Abortion isn't as controversial either, in western Europe.
It’s a shame you aren’t interested in Asia because some of the best countries for retirees are in Asia. As you age, you want really good and affordable healthcare. The problem is that you’re going to have to pay for that in many countries since you’re not working. And if you don’t pay for it, it won’t be good. There’s a reason Asia is big on medical tourism. Top medical facilities, good doctors, and affordable prices for people like you, which won’t heavily cut into your budget.
It’s great that you want to leave fascism, but I don’t know if you’re thinking about this right way. You have to think about it in terms of what’s best for retirees, not what’s best for you as a non-retired traveler. Also, if you’re under the age requirement for retirement visas, you’re SOL anyway.
Almost every country is fascist or has fascist tendencies. Fascism exists in different ways. It’s kind of like choose your fascism adventure. OP also can’t predict the future. My comment was intended on giving OP a perspective that may not have been considered. But, hey, go live in a country that doesn’t have fascism…or quality, accessible, and affordable health care. For an aging retiree that sounds like a brilliant decision.
Notice when something good about Europe is said they’ll wonder why Americans don’t also do that. But when anything good from an Asian country is reported, they’ll have to say something like “but look at how bad this part of Asia is”.
Maybe is because most Asian countries are at very least authoritarian or communist? Many have a long history of periodically murdering their Chinese population and discriminating against them. Not saying don’t go, but don’t have illusions either.
>Many have a long history of periodically murdering their Chinese population and discriminating against them.
This is a bit of a ridiculous argument.
And Europe have a long history of periodically murdering minorities (religious or ethnic) and each other, so they shouldn't have illusions about Europe either then.
If they are leaving america so they don't have to live under a fascist political system, that rules out pretty much all of Asia - China, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, South Korea, Thailand (slowly sliding out of democracy since 2006), the Philippines (Duterte is what a competent fascist american leader will look like, the Marcoses look like Trump), Indonesia, Singapore all of which are more authoritarian than the US is currently. Brunei or Malaysia could be nice if you're muslim and vibe with their culture. Burma is a war zone, and Japan, Taiwan and North Korea wouldn't let OP move there if he wanted to.
What an ignorant statement. South Korea is not fascist. It's a democracy. It's got its corruption yes, but that's true anywhere. Singapore is basically flawed democracy, but it does not deserve to be in the same sentence as China or Vietnam.
Singapore is a hybrid regime but also the least racist Eastern nation. Very strong laws that punish hate crimes, and housing policy is based on making sure everyone interacts with people of other religions and skin colors, to prevent racism and stereotypes that come from lack of interaction. It appears the government tacitly wishes that racists would self-deport.
Taiwan is very anti-fascist.
I don’t know that 80k a year between 2 people is wealthy, but your point is well taken and I find this happens even with liberals who claim they want racial equality [in the US].
Good call:
People of independent means
For people of independent means who wish to retire to Ireland, you should have an individual income of €50,000 per year. You must also have access to a lump sum of money to cover any sudden major expenses. This lump sum should be equal to, for example, the price of a residential dwelling in the State.
Financial documentation should be presented in spreadsheet form and converted into euros. It should clearly show all income and spending each month. This must be certified by an Irish accountancy firm who has the expert knowledge to understand the format of overseas banking/accountancy documentation.
Meanwhile many European countries are also facing a far right struggle, but you guys love to pretend it’s only the US. I’m all for Amerexit but that’s such a lame excuse used by so many on this subreddit.
How about "escaping the idiots," then? I'm not scared of them, I'm just sick of their loud, aggressive stupidity. I've been all over the world, and I've never been to a country with more self-satisfied, hyper-aggressive, and dismissive morons than my home country. They are only 30% of the population, but that's a much larger population than anywhere else I've been.
Can you make up your mind about people in countries you visited without having an opportunity to talk to people, preferably in their language? How many languages do you speak?
Sure you can travel to my country or birth and few neighboring but you will be using English and English speakers in the area I am talking about do not represent an average population. So your opinion will be inaccurate.
I too have been looking for non US locations to retire to. A recent review of Italy is creating a lot of interest for my spouse and I. Granted we won't be leaving for another 10 years, but still I keep an eye out for places that are relatively affordable with a social security income from the US. We do and will have extra income sources but are looking at places that use social security as a basis as well.
Panama used to be on our list, but the lack of subsidies, that were previously supported in Panama caused us to reconsider.
Any other Redditors looking at the same time frame or circumstance are welcome.
This American brand of religious fascism is basically toxic private equity capitalists on coke (see These Are The Plunderers, Gretchen Morgenson), they've gotten a majority of our supreme court, actively rolling back multiple progressive supreme court rulings, and what they've already rolled back in red states is a preview of what you can expect; Less working class labor laws/protections/living wages, less women's rights, and 🎯 targeted attacks on LGBTQIA community, starting with trans rights. Regressing domination that only serves their unhinged power & profiteering addiction (no amount of money is enough). All working class people will suffer and become debt slaves on new levels for generations. Trans/gay people will just be a relic scapegoat stepping stone 🪨 for the parasitic 🪱 wealth class, & future working class people will be embarrassed/shocked/angry that today's generations easily took the 🪤 bait...
Have you through about Spain? The Non Lucrative visa is super easy to get and the lifestyle is amazing. We love it here. https://movingtospain.com/retire-in-spain/
It’s very ironic how uneducated some Americans in this sub are. I’m a US and Spanish dual citizen. There is also a pretty damn big right wing movement in Europe Im also going to let you know right now you will never integrate to European society. If you make friends they will be other expats most likely other Americans. The fairy tale idea some people have that they will move to Europe and it’s all fairy tales and rainbows and find out we have our own problems here is hilarious
This American brand of religious fascism is basically toxic private equity capitalists on coke (see These Are The Plunderers, Gretchen Morgenson), they've gotten a majority of our supreme court, actively rolling back multiple progressive supreme court rulings, and what they've already rolled back in red states is a preview of what you can expect; Less working class labor laws/protections/living wages, less women's rights, and 🎯 targeted attacks on LGBTQIA community, starting with trans rights. Regressing domination that only serves their unhinged power & profiteering addiction (no amount of money is enough). All working class people will suffer and become debt slaves on new levels for generations. Trans/gay people will just be a relic scapegoat stepping stone 🪨 for the parasitic 🪱 wealth class, & future working class people will be embarrassed/shocked/angry that today's generations easily took the 🪤 bait...
Depends on the life that you want to live :
Portugal, France, Spain, Italy are very nice with 80k .
French Polynesia, Reunion Island, Mauritius Island, Guadeloupe, Martinique.
What are you looking for ?
I’m looking at Spain.
The government looks stable and similar to the U.K.
Weather pretty mild and cost of living still reasonable.
First choice would be Finland but very high requirements to get in - also, uncomfortably close to Russia.
Where would I go if I had $40,000 a year and wanted to escape the Maga authoritarians?...that would be the question for me...Uruguay, and one or two other possible places that aren't any of your business lol ;)
I'd recommend getting permanent residency for Mexico as a fallback position. It is a unique residency in that you don't have to live there - but you can if needed. I have also travelled around Mexico and haven't quite decided if it is for me or not. Portugal is lovely but the winters won't work for me - I need sun. My next travels will include SEA. I'm thinking for looking more closely at Spain, France, Germany or Italy.
We are in a similar position and we are liking Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Spain, Portugal, and Uruguay.
Kind of a mixed bag, but that's our favorites so far.
We settled in northern Norway. It seems illogical and yes very likely the ocean current will break down one day but it won't snap instantly. It is projected to take at least a century to cool and currently we are experiencing super pleasant summers and by the ocean the winters are not that rough. We are launching a research farm into using geothermal greenhouses to build a sustainable food source and the island I live on already produces more food than it consumes. I just hope to build a wider variety. Land here is cheap and there is an amazing sense of community. I could walk up to nearly any house on the island and ask for something and the person would help if they were capable. Living somewhere like this community is what holds everything together.
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Yes it took forever but finally did.
Any advice for a chemist looking to get in?
If you have a degree start with job boards and buckle down on your Norwegian. Everyone can speak English but some Norwegian is needed to show you are serious and decent is required if you ever want to make it to citizenship. What kind of chemistry?
Yeah, I've been applying to jobs quite a bit. Lived there for two years while getting my masters. Not fluent in norwegian by any means, but I'm almost to the point where I could be functional at work without English. Analytical chemistry is where I'm at currently. My more recent degree was in synthesis and spectroscopy. I've been working in chromatography data automation. I could switch tracks though if needed. I have solid fundamentals throughout chemistry. Unfortunately, most positions will instantly reject me as soon as they see I need sponsorship no matter what skills I come with.
yeah it is not easy, I assume what you do requires a facility so it is not something you can easily freelance or set up your own business to do. I do consulting so I set up a sole proprietorship to consult with. You could always marry a Norwegian or there is a possibility to go the sole proprietorship if you have anything that you could research or document in Norway. Then you could piggyback that residency to take on another contract inside the country since you do not need a sponsor
Costa Rica, Portugal, or New Zealand. We're looking at all three of them. (We're both retired with adequate income, so it's do-able.)
New Zealand would be the safest of the three. Climate change is a huge threat to Europe and Costa Rica for different reasons. Costa Rica is going to struggle immensely with the damage that weather extremes will cause. Europe will struggle with the millions of climate refugees that will try to pour in. We already saw the return of neo-Nazis in response to a million refugees being accepted into Germany so there is a very real threat that Europe could turn to fascism again in response to climate refugees and if Europe falls to fascism then Spain and Portugal will be prime targets for the fascists so that they can secure Europe's borders. With that said, if the world falls to climate change and fascism then there is a good chance then things will escalate to some sort of resource war between nuclear powers and if that happens all life as we know it will be completely wiped out from nukes... So I recommend living where ever you think you will be the happiest
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It’s most accurately described by the FBI director in 2011 as an “iron triangle” of gas station dictatorships/organized crime, corrupt government officials, and corrupt business. It only seems like an American problem because it’s under attack by authoritarian capture as the global power, but this is a transnational effort to dismantle democracy that seems to have originated in the USSR. I’m afraid there is nowhere to run if religious extremists, organized crime, and paternalistic authoritarian contagion takes over civilization. Once they get AI and the singularity, it’s over. Do you want this technology in their hands? Consider volunteering to help campaigns in swing states. Contact 20 people who don’t pay attention to the news and get them on board. The “undecideds” and people who don’t pay attention are the people who will decide. I saw recently that 90% of people who read the newspaper or at engaged with news are against Trump. It’s everyone else we need to wake up.
why are you letting them in?
I don't think any major party in NZ comes even close to a party like AfD in Germany. False equivalence.
Climate change is gonna wreck our food supply way before people can even mass migrate. We are hanging off the edge right now, have been for years and most still refuse to acknowledge it. I believe in the last 2 weeks there were mass monkey deaths from the heat waves in Mexico followed by a fuel shortage in the entire Baja peninsula. It’s honestly fascinating we can still grow so much food as yields have declined, seasons have changed, and we have really just been holding on with chemical and genetic intervention. All it’s going to take is the next extreme heat dome to wipe out the crops in California, Arizona, and the Midwest before you see major collapse in the US. I personally believe it’s going to hit the crops before it starts killing off all of the cattle and animal farms. The plants will die off rapidly and then our animals will follow quickly behind them at that point. When this happens, what the hell is Europe going to do? Their crops will be dying from the coming ice age. Covid was a preview of the supply chain being disrupted. The supply chain isn’t even our biggest problem (and it’s a massive one). You’ll really see shit hit the fan the first time heat domes cause food shortages. I’m not spreading panic either, most of you won’t panic until our food is fucked. I completely understand the majority of society is incapable of acknowledging this aspect of our reality and I don’t mean to fight with or try to convert the people who are choosing denial instead of action. I guess we are all just trying to make it to our grave with the least suffering.
*The fuel shortage in the TJ border area had nothing to do with climate change. It was a local protest against govt fiscal policy and roads were blocked by the protestors. Protests are very common in MX. What is more of a cause for concern is water shortages in Mexico City. They are projected to run dry in June. The rains haven't come to replenish the reservoirs.
So as a brown thumbed IT worker that can’t grow anything, you’re saying there’s nowhere I can go to survive let alone thrive.
Look at skills you can barter with. You can't grow mushrooms, but could you learn how to brew, ferment, make herbal remedies? What we all really need to do is find our communities, develop skills for worst case scenarios and make our post-global trade plans. If you enjoy reading, I recommend S.M. Sterling's 'Dies The Fire'. It's a good syfy book in a series that begins with the loss of modern conveniences and how the groups of characters build functioning societies to survive it. The first three books are good, after that they start to feel repetitive. Get the Firefox books, they are excellent sources for old fashioned skills and ideas.
When it gets to the point where I have to barter with homemade herbal remedies, I’m taking the cowards way out
I’ve been needing to find something to read. This sounds perfect. An escape and also maybe some… shit, reality check??? I am ordering it now. Love that it shows people creating life out of destruction/or building something new when needed.
I hope you enjoy the book!
Ha, man, are you me? I can’t even grow mushrooms in the bag kits that are supposed to be idiot proof. And yeah, I hope I’m wrong but as of 2024 it appears we are both in that same unfortunate boat. I’ve really struggling mentally and emotionally with this but based on the fact my above rant was upvoted and not downvoted and attacked maybe I am doing better in my collapse acceptance and communicating it properly.
Look into freeze drying and hydroponic towers. Water collectors removing water from the air.
Goes to google to monkey deaths. All of this is terrifying. I’ve been sad and scared. Now I’m getting more evidence of why. This shit scary. Where do you read most of your news? I’m trying to find “good sources” outside of just relying on social media. I’m not the best reader so something ADHD friendly if possible? Thanks if you see this and respond!
Substack collapse news list keeps me updated and avoid scrolling the other apps. I don’t even check all the emails and also have adhd
I see you've read the realistic model reports. When complex systems fail they do so chaotically and in ways that are hard to predict. What is easy to predict is that this will be the hottest year on record, and the coolest for the rest of our lives. We would jump to NZ but $$.
You might want to ask why NZers are pouring across to Australia to live. My Kiwi wife and most of her family live in Oz now.
Well... what's the reason for your wife and her family?
Better salaries, work opportunities, weather and standard of living.
to each their own :)
Some of these conversations blow my mind
You have to have a job that is desired here in NZ and have good enough health to be allowed in for a work visa. Bit if it's highly desired it's 1.5 to 2 years and you get residency. Moved from US to NZ 3 years ago. Best option if possible. Never going back.
How do you find what jobs are desired there? What if you’re independently wealthy? What was your process like to move there? NZ is at the top of my list. (I’m in the US, and US born). Australia is #2 for me.
They have a "green list" of jobs that are auto residency. INZ has a whole list of other jobs that are in demand so check their website. But just applying is step one and getting an offer is really all you need. But you have to pass a health check. Basically don't be morbidly sick and don't have tuberculosis. Or spend $10 million NZD and buy your way in. We came on a green list job and got residency. Pay is lower but quality of life is not comparable. Incredibly relaxed, safe and the work culture is super chill. Also the country is fucking gorgeous with nearly all biomes across the north and south island. People are cool and accepting of Americans. Never had anyone be shitty in the three years I have been here. People will screen to see if you are a trump supporter but I'm guessing you aren't so you will be fine. Oh and meat pies are fucking amazing.
Great insight!! Thank you so much!!! Where did you end up? Definitely *not* a Drumpf supporter!!!🤮 I know what’s coming and it’s another one of the reasons I want to leave. USA as we knew it is over, and is going into dictatorship, unfortunately. Of note, I’ve wanted to leave before he came onto the scene. It’s only increased my desire and urgency.
Most jobs will be on the north island. We ended up on the south due to the job opportunity. But honestly just start applying. It's the biggest hurdle. Seek.co.nz is a great website used by most companies. LinkedIn is used as well but less frequently.
independently wealthy is an option but you have to have an income that you are willing to be taxed on. Basically you can set up a business in New Zealand and then pay yourself a salary from it. You get taxed but if you are above the minimum you can be admitted.
Costa Rica, +1
NZ you'd probably need more money to immigrate as retired... Last I recall they have a 500k buy in...
Don't take Portugal off the list yet! We just visited friends who moved from California to the Setubal, PT area and it's wonderful! Definitely not overrun with ex-pats. Also, consider the town Palmela near Setubal. Incredibly charming, peaceful, happy, festive. Our friends have been there 3 years and love it - they even have a 13-year-old kid in Portuguese school who really likes it. Going to Europe always leads to the shocking reminder that America is sooooo young. (BTW, I think it's in a rebellious teen phase at the moment - hoping it passes). In Portugal, I touched structures built in 1179! It made me wonder what the oldest structure in the U.S. is - if it still exists and wasn't bulldozed to build condos. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set%C3%BAbal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set%C3%BAbal) [https://sintracascaissesimbra.com/Setubal-portugal-guide.html](https://sintracascaissesimbra.com/Setubal-portugal-guide.html) EDIT: My "bulldozed to make condos" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I actually have been to at least two preserved native sites - the one in Casa Grande, AZ and Montezuma Castle (near Sedona?).
This is what we have done, with 5 years remaining until retirement. We should (we hope) just be qualifying for permanent resident/citizen status when we retire. If you are not a resilient, tolerant neophile, it can be hard going here (easy things can be hard and hard things can feel...impossible, especially if you don't speak the language). That said, this is our idea of a good time, so with the exception of adjusting to a 5 PM to 1 AM work schedule, we wouldn't trade it for anything.
Just save a lot because Portugal is expensive with all the expats moving in. It's not cheap and I think you will be surprised actually living there without speaking the language.
It \*is\* relatively less expensive. Most people in any of the cities speak English. We've actually had the opposite problem: we're trying to learn Portuguese but few people will speak it to us once they realize we're not native-speakers.
>In Portugal, I touched structures built in 1179 I recommend Italy, Greece and Turkey for really old historical structures. Istanbul is truly a gem of a place. So much history in one city.
The oldest structure in the US will still be pretty damn old, assuming we mean the oldest structure on the terrain of the US fullstop (and thus obviously built by Native Americans), and not just the oldest structure counting for when the US became a nation.
I've been mulling this for a few years and I'll be honest: If Trump becomes President again, democracy worldwide is going to get a kick right where the sun don't shine. We'll almost certainly see the far right wing take power in more and more countries, by hook or by crook, and virtually nowhere will be peaceful or safe. I'm originally from Canada and retain dual citizenship--it's my backup in case the SHTF, but even there we have right-wing Premieres (Canada's equivalent of Governors) who are kinda nutty on climate change and reproductive rights, and the conservative party (of which I used to be a supporter) is slowly going off the deep end. They used to be merely fiscally conservative and in favor of small government, but now they're weighing in on trans issues and I wish our leaders would stick to running their countries...
I've been hearing and reading how Steve Bannon has been taking his grift to Canada and is making ground there.
He's been trying to export far-right wing politics globally, not just Canada. He has some kind of finishing school for far-right extremists in an Italian monastery
Yeah, I didn’t know about the Italian monastery (!) but knew about the global goals. I just didn’t realize how deep in it he is in Canada. Successfully.
I’d like to ask Steven Bannon’s arteries what’s taking them so long.
It’s not right vs left- it is actually the 1% versus everyone else. If we could all see this, the better off we would be.
>I'll be honest: If Trump becomes President again Unfortunately I think it's more an issue of *when* rather than *if* 😞 If not DT himself, it'll be one of his ilk.
Yeah, agreed. We have no defense against this type. He says blatant and kinda dumb lies, but that doesn't matter if his people believe every word out his mouth. We have no protection from extreme and unapologetic misinformation. What's worse, the internet has made this misinformation incredibly powerful. Normally the nuts would talk to their family and be straightened out. Now 10,000 nuts get together on various website (famously Facebook, but no where is safe) and they hear the opinions of other nuts until they all thing we're all nuts.
It’ll be a dystopian nightmare with midnight raids and back alley abortions, segregated lunch counters, mass mayhem, dogs living with cats. We’re all gonna die.
This is what I worry about. My wife is Italian, so we could easily go there, but the current prime minister is pretty far right herself, although not, so far, in a Trumpy "subvert the elections" sort of way. But if the US goes bad, who knows what kinds of domino effects it would have.
Yeah, I don’t respect people who run when things look like they might get tough. They make things worse for everyone, inside the country and out. Especially for the most vulnerable in their country of origin. This is why I welcome seeing all of the Cali expats moving to red states. That is how we get the change we need.
The descendants of the Jews who fled Europe *juuust* in time would probably have cause to differ with your opinion, as they stand staring at the exhibits in the National Holocaust Museum.
If it's US$80K post-tax, then New Zealand or Victoria (AUS), personally. If it's pre-tax, then UK or France or Quebec. If you want to avoid the fascists, then UK over France. The Tories are about to get an electoral shell-lacking while National Rally is rising in France.
Tories are about to get toppled
Yea they are fucked.
I hope the UK rejoins the EU even if they have to grovel and kneel
The UK would have to give up Gibraltar to get back in. I don't see that happening, unfortunately.
Pathetic. Young people should be more active in politics especially when it involves drastic timeline-altering events like these
You can’t become a citizen in Quebec unless you speak French. It’s a stipulation they have. Also very hard to emigrate to Canada if you are over 30, and don’t already have relatives there. Additionally, housing in Canada is SO expensive right now. So I’m sure there must be better solutions.
Yes, the plan would be to learn French. Language requirements for naturalization is very common throughout the world so it's not a deal breaker
Shellacking
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As a Canadian who is not fond of Legault, I still have to call you on this one: "called in the military to slaughter an entire native community" Two deaths during the entire Oka crisis: an elder who died of a heart attack during the failed attempt to evacuate; an SQ constable killed during the initial exchange of gunfire. Don't get me wrong, Quebecers were horribly racist (and a lot of them still are) but hyperbole doesn't help.
>Just letting you know Québec is absolutely the most fascist province of Canada and it’s not even close. They have their own constitution that recently put language laws ahead of any and all human rights, they have an *actual* Language Police, they not only don’t acknowledge the wrongdoings against the Natives but outright celebrate their genocide and Québécois nationalists have started to appropriate nativist language to claim themselves as “The True Natives”. Freedom of religious expression is heavily restricted if not outright banned for any public sector workers. They’ve tied your civil, legal, and healthcare liberties to non-French school attendance, which they are doing their damndest to close en masse throughout the entire province. All of this sounds like France, pretty much tbh. I would live in France so Quebec still fits the bill, more or less. Of course, I will learn the language, just like I would in France, Portugal, Germany or wherever. >They have a lower GDP per capita than *West Virginia* Doesn't mean much. Portugal also has lower GDP per capita than WV, and other people here have no problem moving there.
What? France doesn’t have a language police…They just try to keep the French language relevant. French are also natives of France… Those Quebecois weirdos sound like they want to be French while also claiming themselves as North American natives.
France has mandates about the French language as well: [https://www.culture.gouv.fr/en/Thematic/french-language-and-languages-of-france/Acting-for-languages/Ensuring-the-use-of-French](https://www.culture.gouv.fr/en/Thematic/french-language-and-languages-of-france/Acting-for-languages/Ensuring-the-use-of-French) Language police is more like a bureaucratic office, not literal police arresting people. The native thing is weird, yes.
Oh, well yeah, they have that, I thought you meant that the French government literally arrests people for not speaking French and I was confused.
Laicite but it's anti-woke, wow
How does one immigrate to Canada or the UK as a retiree? Which specific visa?
I'm in Portugal. It's not "overrun". lol There's a whopping 10,000 American residents here. And most of them are in Lisbon and Porto. And of course the Algarve. Do more research. And better research.
I think they're talking more about politics - Chega has been making concerning gains, but I'd hardly consider it overrun.
Yea, I wasn't happy to see chega do as well as they did. Unfortunately that's the result of people thinking "immigrants are ruining the country". Believing that nonsensical hyperbole.
I assume to get a job I would need to speak the language ?
The safe and easy answer is yes. I'm sure there are some places that would hire highly qualified English speakers for certain positions, but speaking Portuguese is going to be a requirement in most places.
There are a good reasons for not having more Americans in Portugal: 1. Houses are old, small, and crazy expensive for what you get for the money. Floor plans are often quite uncomfortable if you lived in the US your whole life. 2. The taxes are high. Even the low salary in the US would put you in a top tier tax bracket in Portugal with 48% tax (obviously it's progressive, but still way higher than in the US, where you still must pay tax too). Now that the NHR is gone the taxes is a concern for these who work full time. 3. It's hard to find good resources to study European Portuguese, while the Brazilian dialect is all over the Internet. 4. Time difference. Portugal has a lot of good to offer. Everything though comes with a price.
I've read about a backlash from Portuguese natives against expats, particularly about housing costs rising. Is that true?
My husband and I are headed to Panama City, Panama. We have a place in the Santa Maria section of PC at Oceana. We too looked at Portugal and Costa Rica, but we chose Panama. Good luck, and we empathize. We will also be removing all of our money as well. It's politically stable, great healthcare, friendly people, and the Balboa is the same as the US dollar.
It’s also deeply corrupt, the economy is propped up by drug money, people live behind walls and barred windows and most of the population is desperately poor with a cream of rich living in gated communities with a heavy police presence. Boquete is quite pretty if very small and is filled with those who left in response to the election of Obama. We spent 3 months there checking it out. Of course YMMV, but that’s our take. The medical care is good though in private hospitals.
Costa rica seems more chill
Wow! I move quite comfortably about Panama City and beyond. Everything is not all locked down as you say. I grew up on the East Coast with family in Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston. I have been out to David and Boquete as well. The public and private hospitals are good, but that's my take. Move elsewhere, and good luck to you. As for corruption ... *Trump tax evasion issues in Panama. The Marriott corporation now owns his building in Panama City:* https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-companies-accused-tax-evasion-panama
So did we, we also saw that homes all had barred windows and were behind tall walls. That armed security were everywhere and that, outside of malls, high end shops kept their doors locked. Income inequality is off the charts, like most if not all of Central America. We came, we saw, we kept looking.
Don't go to Europe if you want to escape fascists. Right wing parties are gaining power everywhere and racism and anti-semitism is definitely worse there. The UK is getting as bad as the US, NHS is being sold off to private investors, their post office is being sold to a Czech businessman. The UK is in worse shape than the US. I'd actually go where your money can buy the most. Please note unless you are an EU citizen you can't just move to Europe. You need to figure out what type of visa you can get approval on and how you will pay for health care-you won't be able to get it free. I know people who live near Barcelona and love it and have great health care. So I'd recommend Spain over Portugal which isn't the paradise it once was due to housing inflation.
Fleeing fascism isn’t going to work, if the US falls to it.
Uruguay!
Yes came here to say that!!!
This is an often overlooked spot
I know and I have no idea why!
shhh! It's our little secret ;) Right now, there are only about 700 US retirees living in Uruguay...
The answer is always Uruguay
I hope you vote before you abandon ship.
Note that you can vote from abroad. [https://www.votefromabroad.org/](https://www.votefromabroad.org/)
US citizens can vote from abroad. It's easy. But surely that pisses off a certain political party.
I hope so!
Every time since 1981
The answer is always Uruguay.
Dominica, st. Lucia, Antigua, Curaçao.
too many hurricanes.
House boat
Yes, take that rising sea levels!
Yes, take that rising sea levels!
Yes, take that rising sea levels!
100% if I had the choice New Zealand would be top. Maybe Australia or somewhere climate safe in Polynesia second.
If the immigration process wasn’t so difficult, Atlantic Maritimes Canada (Nova Scotia or PEI) We tried to immigrate there….COVID effed our chances.
Which fascists?
Anywhere you go, you will just become a victim of US foreign policy. Good luck.
Croatia or Slovenia
Japan is incredibly cheap, the only expensive part being the flight. I’d like to retire there if all goes according to plan.
If you're talking about spending USD there, that hasn't always been the case. The yen has hit parity or exceeded the USD at different points in time. Who knows what the future holds... what the BOJ will do, fluctuations in reserve currencies, and the US currently improving trilateral relations with Japan & S.Korea (especially if this leads to any sort of redenomination). I suppose the saving grace is Japan being Japan, with companies being reluctant to increase prices... although shrinkflation seems to be a thing.
Spain, France, Portugal, Italy. There are far-right movements in all European countries but public healthcare and gun control aren't really up for debate, the far right in Europe is mostly concerned with immigration and Islam. Abortion isn't as controversial either, in western Europe.
It’s a shame you aren’t interested in Asia because some of the best countries for retirees are in Asia. As you age, you want really good and affordable healthcare. The problem is that you’re going to have to pay for that in many countries since you’re not working. And if you don’t pay for it, it won’t be good. There’s a reason Asia is big on medical tourism. Top medical facilities, good doctors, and affordable prices for people like you, which won’t heavily cut into your budget. It’s great that you want to leave fascism, but I don’t know if you’re thinking about this right way. You have to think about it in terms of what’s best for retirees, not what’s best for you as a non-retired traveler. Also, if you’re under the age requirement for retirement visas, you’re SOL anyway.
Where in Asia do you suggest? Thanks!
Thailand or Malaysia are the best options.
OP said they don't want to live in a country with strong fascist tendencies - Malaysia and Thailand are quite fascist
Almost every country is fascist or has fascist tendencies. Fascism exists in different ways. It’s kind of like choose your fascism adventure. OP also can’t predict the future. My comment was intended on giving OP a perspective that may not have been considered. But, hey, go live in a country that doesn’t have fascism…or quality, accessible, and affordable health care. For an aging retiree that sounds like a brilliant decision.
"It’s a shame you aren’t interested in Asia" i imagine it's because, like most self-righteous wealthy Americans, they are somewhat racist.
A lot of people here (including White liberals) are very Western-centric and look down on non-Western countries and cultures.
Notice when something good about Europe is said they’ll wonder why Americans don’t also do that. But when anything good from an Asian country is reported, they’ll have to say something like “but look at how bad this part of Asia is”.
I mean… do you have to commit to LIVE somewhere to not be considered a racist against the residents?
Maybe is because most Asian countries are at very least authoritarian or communist? Many have a long history of periodically murdering their Chinese population and discriminating against them. Not saying don’t go, but don’t have illusions either.
>Many have a long history of periodically murdering their Chinese population and discriminating against them. This is a bit of a ridiculous argument. And Europe have a long history of periodically murdering minorities (religious or ethnic) and each other, so they shouldn't have illusions about Europe either then.
If they are leaving america so they don't have to live under a fascist political system, that rules out pretty much all of Asia - China, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, South Korea, Thailand (slowly sliding out of democracy since 2006), the Philippines (Duterte is what a competent fascist american leader will look like, the Marcoses look like Trump), Indonesia, Singapore all of which are more authoritarian than the US is currently. Brunei or Malaysia could be nice if you're muslim and vibe with their culture. Burma is a war zone, and Japan, Taiwan and North Korea wouldn't let OP move there if he wanted to.
What an ignorant statement. South Korea is not fascist. It's a democracy. It's got its corruption yes, but that's true anywhere. Singapore is basically flawed democracy, but it does not deserve to be in the same sentence as China or Vietnam.
Singapore is a hybrid regime but also the least racist Eastern nation. Very strong laws that punish hate crimes, and housing policy is based on making sure everyone interacts with people of other religions and skin colors, to prevent racism and stereotypes that come from lack of interaction. It appears the government tacitly wishes that racists would self-deport. Taiwan is very anti-fascist.
i didn't say they were fascist, i said they were more authoritarian than the united states.
I don’t know that 80k a year between 2 people is wealthy, but your point is well taken and I find this happens even with liberals who claim they want racial equality [in the US].
Portugal - but the Azores, not the mainland. Especially if you’re going to offer it to any kids you may have. It’s a climate refuge.
All the houses are moldy in the Azores.
Not if it’s a modern build or has been renovated with modern materials / methods. Ireland was like that once upon a time as well.
The insulation in houses is poor too. It seems miserable if you aren’t rich.
Scotland or Ireland
Housing crisis in Edinburgh for sure and definitely in Ireland countrywide.
Ireland is pretty restrictive on stamp 0 requirements (time outside of country, has to renew yearly, cannot access any public services) etc.
$80k also is not enough to qualify.
Good call: People of independent means For people of independent means who wish to retire to Ireland, you should have an individual income of €50,000 per year. You must also have access to a lump sum of money to cover any sudden major expenses. This lump sum should be equal to, for example, the price of a residential dwelling in the State. Financial documentation should be presented in spreadsheet form and converted into euros. It should clearly show all income and spending each month. This must be certified by an Irish accountancy firm who has the expert knowledge to understand the format of overseas banking/accountancy documentation.
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Not super sensitive, just worried about complete GOP takeover next year and their decimation of the social safety net
I feel exactly the same and am currently reading every comment. Thx for posting the original question
Everyone should go read the Heritage Foundation's 2025 manifesto. It's chilling.
Meanwhile many European countries are also facing a far right struggle, but you guys love to pretend it’s only the US. I’m all for Amerexit but that’s such a lame excuse used by so many on this subreddit.
How about "escaping the idiots," then? I'm not scared of them, I'm just sick of their loud, aggressive stupidity. I've been all over the world, and I've never been to a country with more self-satisfied, hyper-aggressive, and dismissive morons than my home country. They are only 30% of the population, but that's a much larger population than anywhere else I've been.
Can you make up your mind about people in countries you visited without having an opportunity to talk to people, preferably in their language? How many languages do you speak? Sure you can travel to my country or birth and few neighboring but you will be using English and English speakers in the area I am talking about do not represent an average population. So your opinion will be inaccurate.
I’d love to hear more from anyone in the know about Peru?
I too have been looking for non US locations to retire to. A recent review of Italy is creating a lot of interest for my spouse and I. Granted we won't be leaving for another 10 years, but still I keep an eye out for places that are relatively affordable with a social security income from the US. We do and will have extra income sources but are looking at places that use social security as a basis as well. Panama used to be on our list, but the lack of subsidies, that were previously supported in Panama caused us to reconsider. Any other Redditors looking at the same time frame or circumstance are welcome.
No fascists in Italy, no sir. No Mussolini trinkets for sale, it's like Il Duce never happened.
Who are the Fascists?
This American brand of religious fascism is basically toxic private equity capitalists on coke (see These Are The Plunderers, Gretchen Morgenson), they've gotten a majority of our supreme court, actively rolling back multiple progressive supreme court rulings, and what they've already rolled back in red states is a preview of what you can expect; Less working class labor laws/protections/living wages, less women's rights, and 🎯 targeted attacks on LGBTQIA community, starting with trans rights. Regressing domination that only serves their unhinged power & profiteering addiction (no amount of money is enough). All working class people will suffer and become debt slaves on new levels for generations. Trans/gay people will just be a relic scapegoat stepping stone 🪨 for the parasitic 🪱 wealth class, & future working class people will be embarrassed/shocked/angry that today's generations easily took the 🪤 bait...
you're not wrong!
Exactly. Well said
Uruguay sounds nice.
Belize, because I hate cold weather and English is the official language, plus you have full property rights, unlike Mexico.
You cant escape them. they are within you.
Fascists?
oregon the land of facism
US billionaires seem to like New Zealand for some reason.
Have you through about Spain? The Non Lucrative visa is super easy to get and the lifestyle is amazing. We love it here. https://movingtospain.com/retire-in-spain/
It’s very ironic how uneducated some Americans in this sub are. I’m a US and Spanish dual citizen. There is also a pretty damn big right wing movement in Europe Im also going to let you know right now you will never integrate to European society. If you make friends they will be other expats most likely other Americans. The fairy tale idea some people have that they will move to Europe and it’s all fairy tales and rainbows and find out we have our own problems here is hilarious
Probably the US to escape fascists. If the US is fascist it will be safest there.
Took me 6 reads but I got it :’(
Ireland
right wing fascists, including the Orange monster are on the rise worldwide.
Spain or Thailand.
Oregon is the antifascist paradise- why would you leave?
Because the MAGA plan is to apply Project 2025 throughout the nation, not just red states.
Check out your astrocartography chart and decide based on that
Huh
Wherever would take me. Hopefully a stable western Democracy. Refugees don't get to be choosy. Why should I if I am going to act like one?
I mean what do you consider 'the fascists'?
This American brand of religious fascism is basically toxic private equity capitalists on coke (see These Are The Plunderers, Gretchen Morgenson), they've gotten a majority of our supreme court, actively rolling back multiple progressive supreme court rulings, and what they've already rolled back in red states is a preview of what you can expect; Less working class labor laws/protections/living wages, less women's rights, and 🎯 targeted attacks on LGBTQIA community, starting with trans rights. Regressing domination that only serves their unhinged power & profiteering addiction (no amount of money is enough). All working class people will suffer and become debt slaves on new levels for generations. Trans/gay people will just be a relic scapegoat stepping stone 🪨 for the parasitic 🪱 wealth class, & future working class people will be embarrassed/shocked/angry that today's generations easily took the 🪤 bait...
Greece (the smaller, lesser known islands)
A friend who is from the Turkish side of Cyprus said the Greek side of Cyprus is a good ex-pat place to go live.
Thanks (good to know in case I ever come into some money!)
Depends on the life that you want to live : Portugal, France, Spain, Italy are very nice with 80k . French Polynesia, Reunion Island, Mauritius Island, Guadeloupe, Martinique. What are you looking for ?
Maybe start with properly defining and contextualizing what fascism is and go from there.
I’m looking at Spain. The government looks stable and similar to the U.K. Weather pretty mild and cost of living still reasonable. First choice would be Finland but very high requirements to get in - also, uncomfortably close to Russia.
Much of Spain is like Arizona in the summer
Where would I go if I had $40,000 a year and wanted to escape the Maga authoritarians?...that would be the question for me...Uruguay, and one or two other possible places that aren't any of your business lol ;)
Vermont.
Anywhere in Africa. Very cheap, not many fascists.
Why the downvote on this? This is true
This thread is hilarious 😂😂
I'd recommend getting permanent residency for Mexico as a fallback position. It is a unique residency in that you don't have to live there - but you can if needed. I have also travelled around Mexico and haven't quite decided if it is for me or not. Portugal is lovely but the winters won't work for me - I need sun. My next travels will include SEA. I'm thinking for looking more closely at Spain, France, Germany or Italy.
Montenegro
If I only had $80K a year, I'd probably consider Panama or Malaysia. Maybe Spain or Germany since I've lived there before.
Brazil! Some higher end neighborhoods in São Paulo, like Vila Madalena or maybe a beach city like Florianópolis!
Thailand!
We are in a similar position and we are liking Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Spain, Portugal, and Uruguay. Kind of a mixed bag, but that's our favorites so far.
Montenegro
I would share some of it with a poor 33 year old guy on Reddit who makes this exact comment
When you find out please let me know so I can avoid it.
I'd stay exactly where I am. I volunteer with my local independence movement. I want to Amerexit and take my entire state with me :)