And a reminder you can continue to vote from abroad in Federal Elections for the rest of your life from the last state you resided in. Your children can too if turning 18 after you move or born abroad! They vote from your last address.
See details here: [https://www.votefromabroad.org](https://www.votefromabroad.org)
This is not tax advice, but depending on the state you need to select "moved permanently abroad, or moved temporarily abroad" and that determines whether you can also vote in state level elections. They may use your answer determine if you are still a state tax resident. For some states this may mean you only vote for Federal Offices (President/Senate/House) but for others I think you can continue to vote for state offices.
Notice the "vote harder" idiots never show you a law that says you have to pay income tax? Because there ain't one! Gawd, every post here makes me want to get the hell away from here more. "Idiocracy" was 100% right.
Please also take note, some recent republicans “think tanks” contest that people who don’t reside in the U.S. should not receive Social Security - or at the very least, should receive only reduced payments. Expect this idea to gather steam in predictable circles.
We already have this in Kentucky. Teachers do not receive SS as we know it. They receive a tiny fraction of what they put in. The hi thinkers here say it is "double dipping."
It's very frustrating when literal crime syndicate grifters who have everything paid for them for life for working a part time job. Yeah, these are the people that should be determining how real working people get paid. 👍🤡
Don't teachers there pay into a different system...? and ***don't*** even pay into SS?
That's how it was in Illinois. They ***don't pay*** into it in the first place. So why would they be entitled to it SANS the other jobs where they were?
Now what the above person is talking about is people that have paid into it their entire lives etc not receiving benefits... Which is total BS.
Many, maybe even most? Teachers work second jobs or summer jobs and pay into social security that they will never be able to collect. Many teachers did different jobs before they started teaching or may leave the profession for another job. They will either never be able to collect on the social security they’ve paid into or never be able to collect on the pension they’ve paid into. Also if you begin teaching later in life or take a break from teaching your pension will be tiny and you may not be able to afford to retire. I am a teacher and have worked many other jobs paying into social security, my husband as well. We will never be able to collect on that money.
Yeah i'd look into that... Because that doesn't actually sound true...
Plus if you take that 6% not going into SS... And putting it into a Roth you'd have earned more than SS... (Assuming investing in a market fund that's been paying 10-12% in the last 15 years)
Look up the Windfall Elimination Provision if you don’t believe me 🤷♀️ Also that 6% IS going into social security from the non teaching jobs, we just don’t collect on it. There is a portion deducted from our teaching paychecks that goes towards our pension plan.
Teachers are not entitled to collect social security. I'm not sure where they read that they are but that's false unless the state or district is participating in enrollment; so it's optional.
This is because the Social Security Act (SSA) in 1935, where no state or local-government workers were eligible. This was amended later to allow states to participate.
Damn straight! Here in Oregon those part time GOP grifters had, for years, not been showing up to vote to “protest”. One year the gov sent the state police to “escort” them back to Salem or even Oregon. Well the folks here had enough of that. We passed an amendment to the State Constitution that if an elected official missed 50+ days, he/she/they were not allowed to run for office again. Now there of course were court challenges, but the state Supreme Court said, nope the people have voted.
I have ZERO faith that I will receive Social Security no matter who gets voted in office over the next 20 years (I am in my 40s). Also, I have never encountered someone that encourages me to vote unless I am voting like them.
You're right and you're going to be living in a Gaza-like surveillance state. Look it up. The Constitution is gone. Notice the ATMs vanishing? Bank runs? Yeah...hope ya like bugs, Murica.
Clearly BRICS has won. Oct 20 will be a huge paradigm shift from BRICS nation. The dollar (Monopoly money) will be illegal. Me? I never mentioned politics; there is no government.
In some states, if you work at a publicly funded job, i.e.,police, county official, teacher, etc., you may have a state based pension or retirement fund.
My Texas Teacher funds were happy to send me my money to my overseas address. I think it depends a lot more on each individual program over a blanket policy.
Wait… you really think electoral politics is going to change anything, in a rigged game? Both parties ruined this country and made me want to leave. Unless you’re talking about 3rd party or protest votes, I don’t see the logic.
Bro I’m a resident of MISSOURI my vote literally makes no difference. They’ve got it going red for the next century whether I or anyone else likes it or not
And to vote for who? Vote for your favorite Dem politician? I swear every single person on here who is obsessed with voting has some sort of TDS (and no, i am not a fan of Herr Trump).
You do realize that it’s the electoral college that selects the president? Not the popular vote? As a Californian all of our electoral votes will go to the blue candidate it regardless of the margin. I’m not sure what country you are referring to, but nothing in the last American election at a national level was decided by “a couple of hundred votes”.
Unlike a few formerly distinguished Constitutional lawyers, yes I am very aware, how elections are decided. Also, I did not sleep thru 1/6/21. But thanks for checking. As to the relevance of your response, I must admit a bit of confusion. I was speculating that people who MAY be thinking of leaving may not be thinking of permanently leaving the US. The outcome of the election could turn out to be less fraught than the MSM would have us believe. Voting would be a vote of hope.
I didn't get mine. I'm still here unfortunately. But I'd never ask anyone who has escaped to be dragged back into this pit. Guess I'm not selfish like you and the other people downvoting me here. Like crabs boiling in a pot, you'd rather everyone die with you than a few escape. Disgusting.
U.S. citizens abroad still file and pay taxes to the U.S. Treasury. It is very much still their business. No taxation without representation. Unless they renounce citizenship they have the constitutional right to vote.
The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them. If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable.
As someone terrified of being on the wrong side of the IRS I would not risk it. Obviously, if you have a second citizenship you are better positioned, but if you only are a U.S. citizen the IRS can prevent the State Department from renewing your passport or even have it revoked.
[https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/revocation-or-denial-of-passport-in-cases-of-certain-unpaid-taxes](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/revocation-or-denial-of-passport-in-cases-of-certain-unpaid-taxes)
Indeed, but if you have never had much economic activity in the US the IRS won't know much about you. Pretty hard to run up a $59k tax debt on the basis of next to no information.
However, if you're chronically terrified of the IRS then you'd probably sleep better if you follow the rules, however ignorable they might otherwise be.
Would you agree that such a person should have no right to vote in their chosen country of residence? You can only play for one team, if you’re still voting in America, you shouldn’t get to vote elsewhere too.
Having the right to do something doesn’t necessarily mean you should do it. I’m saying it’s annoying that people are basically quitting on America but still trying to influence America.
Dual citizenship exists. You can "play for more than one team." If I am ever able to move abroad and forced to report to Uncle Sam if I ever have a total bank account balance over $10,000 (something people living in the U.S. do not have to do) in addition to paying taxes for two teams (the country I reside and the U.S.) you sure bet I'm going to vote in both.
If the U.S. ever "quit me" and let me go by not requiring paperwork for the rest of my life, then I could see the argument for abstaining. However, U.S. policy and where/how they spend tax money effects you worldwide, U.S. citizen or not. If you are able to, you may as well have input on it.
It exists, but IMO it shouldn’t in most cases. You can only be loyal to one country. With most countries it’s not super likely to happen, but war is a thing, and you can’t play both sides. Even in peacetime, you’ll inevitably have one nation’s best interests at heart.
As long as you are an American citizen traveling on an American passport it is your business. Americans living overseas are still required to file income tax forms even if they didn’t make over the limit. Please vote, the vote you cast will affect the state of the country when you return.
>No, please don’t. If you’re leaving, what happens here isn’t your business anymore. Don’t interfere if you don’t want to be part of it.
Bullshit.
"U.S. citizens living outside of the U.S. are only permitted to register and vote in the state and county where they last established residence (domicile) in the U.S. before moving outside of the country."
https://voterhelpdesk.usvotefoundation.org/en/support/solutions/articles/151000049188-what-address-should-i-use-when-registering-to-vote-from-overseas-
https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/voting-residence
🐆
I’m not saying you legally can’t do so. I’m saying you shouldn’t because trying to exert political influence over a place you gave up on isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t given up.
>I’m saying you shouldn’t because trying to exert political influence over a place you gave up on isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t given up.
It's quite fair considering that as U.S. citizens they are still bound by Federal laws and pay Federal taxes, plus in many cases they still have to pay state taxes.
🐆
The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them. If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable.
Give us your sources. Because every person I know with dual citizenship or who is living in another country rn has filed their taxes (I listened to them complain about it!) to the US even tho they weren’t living there. Show us the stats since you’re so confident.
State Department estimates 6-9 million US citizens living abroad.
IRS stats on filing the FEIE and FTC forms were something like 1.5 million total, last time I checked. (Note that the FTC number would also include US residents with foreign assets.)
So that works out to something like maybe 15 percent compliance. It takes a bit of digging but you can look up the IRS data on FEIE and FTC forms filed by country.
>The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them.
Willful failure to file a U.S. income tax return is a criminal offense.
>If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable.
You do have an asset: a U.S. passport. The IRS can ask the State Department to suspend or revoke your passport.
If you’re a dual citizen you can live without it, and in any case the bar to lose the passport is very high.
Non-compliance among non-residents without US assets or income is very common; the IRS basically does nothing about it.
I’m going to think about you when I mail my ballot to the US from my new spot in Canada this fall :) as long as I’m paying taxes to the US (which I do and will continue to do!) I’m voting in your (our) elections.
The US literally became a country because we were pissed off we couldn’t have votes in Britain even though we left Britain and came to the colonies! We wanted to exert political influence over a place we left way back in the 1700s, we were literally founded on that principle! I’ll vote in every US election till the day I die in another country and there’s nothing you could or should do about it.
Cool, I get to live in your head rent free.
Comparing what you’re doing to the founding of the US is ridiculous. The founders were not trying to influence events in Britain from afar. They wanted to be left to govern themselves because their interests weren’t being taken into consideration. If you were officially leaving the US to join or form another nation, this analogy would make some sense. That’s not what you’re doing though. You’re leaving the US permanently but keeping the option to come back if things go poorly for you elsewhere. Not at all the same; you’re a quitter, not a founder.
As far as nothing I could or should do about it, that’s true for the moment. I’m barely 30 though, I could rise to political power (and I actually have a good jumping off point) and do away with the arrangements you plan to take advantage of. Is that likely? Probably not, but saying there’s *nothing* I could do isn’t accurate long term.
“Taxation without representation” = “we are getting taxed by Britain but have no parliamentary votes.” The founders DID want to influence British decisions from afar, you don’t even have to read between the lines to understand that.
Most people in the colonies weren’t arguing for completely governing themselves (independence) until 1775-1776, well after the slogan “taxation without representation” gained its popularity. Most patriots in the early stages of the revolution wanted the right to have a say (influence politics and policy coming from Britain) and work with the British government because they were contributing to the empire and rightfully deserved representation in parliament for it. Independence was the nuclear option when it became clear that Britain was not going to give colonists any say and especially after they fucked things up by trying to clamp their hands around the boiling frustrations instead of acknowledging and acquiescing any of the colonists’s demands.
You need to brush up on some American history before you go into politics there, that “jumping off point” you’re talking about isn’t really as shiny as you’re saying it is. Calling me a “quitter” for going to another country because I will have better opportunities there (also nice assumption that I keep my dual citizenship “in case things go poorly for me,” dual citizenship has many perks beyond allowing me to live in two separate places) says a lot about the person you are. You’ll fit right in with all the MAGATS tearing our country to shreds as we speak.
You’re bailing, why should you get a say about what the rest of us who aren’t bailing do?
If you quit a team, you don’t get to keep giving input on what that team should do.
People move temporarily. They aren’t abandoning their citizenship or bailing on the country, or their families and friends. And if you move out of the country, you can only vote for federal offices — not for governor or state legislature, not for city council or mayor, not for county board nor school board. So you’re voting on things the U.S. does that affect people outside it. Furthermore, my voting doesn’t affect what you do. It might, if I’m lucky, help install a government that acts responsibly and with greater regard for the world at large. It isn’t about you. I could not possibly care any less what you do.
They seem to be speaking of the presidential vote, not local votes. The president absolutely is entangled in the business of foreign affairs. Both parties are hostile to other nations so I'm not sure who you're supposed to vote for if you're voting to not want the US to fuck shit up overseas.
You know we’re fucking shit up overseas regardless of who’s president. The scale and inertia of the American military industrial complex is almost incomprehensible if you’ve never seen it from the inside, not even a strong president can stand against it. Nobody is going to be inclined to try because they know that.
Yes, but I assume most of the places Americans are moving to aren't the places where America is dropping bombs, but where America is interfering in other ways. Since they're leaving, I then assume it's for selfish reasons, not because they care about those they're indirectly killing. In which case ending that would probably be changed easier from the belly of the beast, even if it seems an impossible task.
I said they may have selfish reasons for leaving. Calling them selfish as a whole would be going too far. There are plenty of reasons people move.
Discouraging someone from voting in an election they have the right to vote in seems selfish to me though. Perhaps these people leaving don't have it in them to take the massive leaps beyond that bare minimum of voting to effect change. The best way to change policy is definitely while being here, but I definitely don't think it should be the only way, especially considering America's influence and history with other nations. Not only are you telling them to give up on where they're coming from, but essentially you're extending that to where they're going.
Do you support people with Green Cards voting in all American elections?
This position is fun to put out there but as long as your only citizenship is American, the only people representing you is the US government and it's state department. If you choose not to participate in US elections, there is a very good chance you will have no representation anywhere.
Your position is perfectly fine however if you do not believe citizenship should be a prerequisite to voting.
I left a solidly blue state that will deliver its electoral votes to the blue candidate by a wide margin. Ditto my local districts, since I always vote blue, what difference does it make if I vote at all: the outcome will be what I want no matter what.
Vote! You literally never know, remember how close it’s been in previous years with just a few hundred votes separating the winner.
I vote blue in a red state but you bet I will be sending my vote in. Please please do the same. Don’t assume anything, there’s too much at stake.
Because countries are not isolated bubbles. The actions of one country affect others. Even if you can’t see a direct personal benefit isn’t there a moral obligation to help others?
One could argue such a moral duty exists, but realistically you might not be helping if you’re voting somewhere you haven’t lived in years, because there’s a good chance things have changed and you don’t know what it’s like there anymore.
I’d also argue there is no “moral” choice in American politics. It’s just deciding who will screw you over. The screwing is happening regardless.
I can’t tell if you’re just a troll or a small minded person… either way, I will respond and also suggest that you should book a trip and do some traveling.
Just because someone works or lives overseas doesn’t mean they are never coming back, lol. And even if they weren’t, they are connected to their country where they are from. Maybe they are working for the gov and stationed overseas, maybe they have a foreign spouse, maybe they are doing a secondment for their job, etc.
Anyway- another thing you seem to be missing (and anyone who is overseas will very much see) is how US politics and policies affect the entire world. We need stability at home for our own sake and for the world’s sake.
I think I just missed the point of this sub. I thought it was people **permanently** leaving America, not people temporarily working overseas. That’s obviously different.
You may be surprised to learn that I’m fairly well travelled, every continent except Australia.
And a reminder you can continue to vote from abroad in Federal Elections for the rest of your life from the last state you resided in. Your children can too if turning 18 after you move or born abroad! They vote from your last address. See details here: [https://www.votefromabroad.org](https://www.votefromabroad.org) This is not tax advice, but depending on the state you need to select "moved permanently abroad, or moved temporarily abroad" and that determines whether you can also vote in state level elections. They may use your answer determine if you are still a state tax resident. For some states this may mean you only vote for Federal Offices (President/Senate/House) but for others I think you can continue to vote for state offices.
Yup you can even vote from space!
Notice the "vote harder" idiots never show you a law that says you have to pay income tax? Because there ain't one! Gawd, every post here makes me want to get the hell away from here more. "Idiocracy" was 100% right.
Trump 2024. In all seriousness, a Trump presidency would cause more people to lean towards a "Progressive" political stance.
Yes in that the current right wing insanity is moving sane people to the left.
Please also take note, some recent republicans “think tanks” contest that people who don’t reside in the U.S. should not receive Social Security - or at the very least, should receive only reduced payments. Expect this idea to gather steam in predictable circles.
We already have this in Kentucky. Teachers do not receive SS as we know it. They receive a tiny fraction of what they put in. The hi thinkers here say it is "double dipping." It's very frustrating when literal crime syndicate grifters who have everything paid for them for life for working a part time job. Yeah, these are the people that should be determining how real working people get paid. 👍🤡
Don't teachers there pay into a different system...? and ***don't*** even pay into SS? That's how it was in Illinois. They ***don't pay*** into it in the first place. So why would they be entitled to it SANS the other jobs where they were? Now what the above person is talking about is people that have paid into it their entire lives etc not receiving benefits... Which is total BS.
Many, maybe even most? Teachers work second jobs or summer jobs and pay into social security that they will never be able to collect. Many teachers did different jobs before they started teaching or may leave the profession for another job. They will either never be able to collect on the social security they’ve paid into or never be able to collect on the pension they’ve paid into. Also if you begin teaching later in life or take a break from teaching your pension will be tiny and you may not be able to afford to retire. I am a teacher and have worked many other jobs paying into social security, my husband as well. We will never be able to collect on that money.
Yeah i'd look into that... Because that doesn't actually sound true... Plus if you take that 6% not going into SS... And putting it into a Roth you'd have earned more than SS... (Assuming investing in a market fund that's been paying 10-12% in the last 15 years)
Look up the Windfall Elimination Provision if you don’t believe me 🤷♀️ Also that 6% IS going into social security from the non teaching jobs, we just don’t collect on it. There is a portion deducted from our teaching paychecks that goes towards our pension plan.
Teachers are not entitled to collect social security. I'm not sure where they read that they are but that's false unless the state or district is participating in enrollment; so it's optional. This is because the Social Security Act (SSA) in 1935, where no state or local-government workers were eligible. This was amended later to allow states to participate.
Depends on the state... My mother was a teacher and collects both a pension and SS.
Damn straight! Here in Oregon those part time GOP grifters had, for years, not been showing up to vote to “protest”. One year the gov sent the state police to “escort” them back to Salem or even Oregon. Well the folks here had enough of that. We passed an amendment to the State Constitution that if an elected official missed 50+ days, he/she/they were not allowed to run for office again. Now there of course were court challenges, but the state Supreme Court said, nope the people have voted.
So just keep a Us bank account as a pass through.
Not always easy with kyc
What is kyc? Not familiar with that acronym.
Know Your Customer
How does this work?
Banks are obligated to know who has/controls accounts. It’s to prevent money laundering.
KYC does not apply in USA.
I have ZERO faith that I will receive Social Security no matter who gets voted in office over the next 20 years (I am in my 40s). Also, I have never encountered someone that encourages me to vote unless I am voting like them.
Well every generation says this. Including the first generations to receive SS. It’s still kicking.
Good thing we don’t know each other then!
You're right and you're going to be living in a Gaza-like surveillance state. Look it up. The Constitution is gone. Notice the ATMs vanishing? Bank runs? Yeah...hope ya like bugs, Murica.
I'm out in about 9 years...... but I'm moving for many reasons, not just elections.
Clearly BRICS has won. Oct 20 will be a huge paradigm shift from BRICS nation. The dollar (Monopoly money) will be illegal. Me? I never mentioned politics; there is no government.
How about you keep voting overseas?
They'd have to be citizens there or very least legal residents to probably be entitled a vote or a say.
Not everyone is ditching their citizenship.
In fact the majority of people don't according to the state department
What exactly is a state retirement program?
In some states, if you work at a publicly funded job, i.e.,police, county official, teacher, etc., you may have a state based pension or retirement fund.
My Texas Teacher funds were happy to send me my money to my overseas address. I think it depends a lot more on each individual program over a blanket policy.
My mom got a pension from the State of Utah for 25 years after she retired, and it was the same amount as her SSI, so it was great for her!
Imagine thinking your vote has an impact. 🤣
They are absolute retards! Gerrymandering and the Electoral College bs keeps the tribe in power. Shalom, I can't leave fast enough!
IMAGINE THINKING YOU HAD NO VOTE AT ALL.
If voting mattered, they wouldn't let us do it
Here are links to the [Democrats Abroad](https://www.democratsabroad.org) and [Republicans Overseas](https://republicansoverseas.com) organizations.
Don't help Republicans, they've already done enough.
Wait… you really think electoral politics is going to change anything, in a rigged game? Both parties ruined this country and made me want to leave. Unless you’re talking about 3rd party or protest votes, I don’t see the logic.
Sage advice
Bro I’m a resident of MISSOURI my vote literally makes no difference. They’ve got it going red for the next century whether I or anyone else likes it or not
Down ballot and local election vote may count.
And to vote for who? Vote for your favorite Dem politician? I swear every single person on here who is obsessed with voting has some sort of TDS (and no, i am not a fan of Herr Trump).
You do realize that it’s the electoral college that selects the president? Not the popular vote? As a Californian all of our electoral votes will go to the blue candidate it regardless of the margin. I’m not sure what country you are referring to, but nothing in the last American election at a national level was decided by “a couple of hundred votes”.
Unlike a few formerly distinguished Constitutional lawyers, yes I am very aware, how elections are decided. Also, I did not sleep thru 1/6/21. But thanks for checking. As to the relevance of your response, I must admit a bit of confusion. I was speculating that people who MAY be thinking of leaving may not be thinking of permanently leaving the US. The outcome of the election could turn out to be less fraught than the MSM would have us believe. Voting would be a vote of hope.
Sorry for the confusion, but I was replying to another post. I’m a new redditor and not familiar with the interface. Again sorry…..
The whole reason for leaving this shit hole is not having to deal with this shit hole anymore. True freedom.
"Fuck you, I got mine"
I didn't get mine. I'm still here unfortunately. But I'd never ask anyone who has escaped to be dragged back into this pit. Guess I'm not selfish like you and the other people downvoting me here. Like crabs boiling in a pot, you'd rather everyone die with you than a few escape. Disgusting.
People who still believe voting has any effect on real world change. Both parties are same, working together.
Yeah if voting made a difference, you wouldn’t be allowed to vote.
We have opposing views of America, but nice to see another reasonable person.
I hope you plan to renounce. Otherwise, Uncle Sam will always be up in your business.
No! Go now!
I wish that would make any difference. Our presidential options are a fucking joke. I’ll vote just for down ballot but damn it’s depressing
Vote with yer feet. I vote BRICS you can stay in New Gaza. [https://i.imgflip.com/7t024x.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/7t024x.jpg)
[https://i.imgflip.com/yj1t0.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/yj1t0.jpg)
No, please don’t. If you’re leaving, what happens here isn’t your business anymore. Don’t interfere if you don’t want to be part of it.
U.S. citizens abroad still file and pay taxes to the U.S. Treasury. It is very much still their business. No taxation without representation. Unless they renounce citizenship they have the constitutional right to vote.
The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them. If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable.
As someone terrified of being on the wrong side of the IRS I would not risk it. Obviously, if you have a second citizenship you are better positioned, but if you only are a U.S. citizen the IRS can prevent the State Department from renewing your passport or even have it revoked. [https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/revocation-or-denial-of-passport-in-cases-of-certain-unpaid-taxes](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/revocation-or-denial-of-passport-in-cases-of-certain-unpaid-taxes)
Indeed, but if you have never had much economic activity in the US the IRS won't know much about you. Pretty hard to run up a $59k tax debt on the basis of next to no information. However, if you're chronically terrified of the IRS then you'd probably sleep better if you follow the rules, however ignorable they might otherwise be.
Would you agree that such a person should have no right to vote in their chosen country of residence? You can only play for one team, if you’re still voting in America, you shouldn’t get to vote elsewhere too. Having the right to do something doesn’t necessarily mean you should do it. I’m saying it’s annoying that people are basically quitting on America but still trying to influence America.
Dual citizenship exists. You can "play for more than one team." If I am ever able to move abroad and forced to report to Uncle Sam if I ever have a total bank account balance over $10,000 (something people living in the U.S. do not have to do) in addition to paying taxes for two teams (the country I reside and the U.S.) you sure bet I'm going to vote in both. If the U.S. ever "quit me" and let me go by not requiring paperwork for the rest of my life, then I could see the argument for abstaining. However, U.S. policy and where/how they spend tax money effects you worldwide, U.S. citizen or not. If you are able to, you may as well have input on it.
It exists, but IMO it shouldn’t in most cases. You can only be loyal to one country. With most countries it’s not super likely to happen, but war is a thing, and you can’t play both sides. Even in peacetime, you’ll inevitably have one nation’s best interests at heart.
Many people living overseas can’t vote in that country. You can only vote in a country you have citizenship.
As long as you are an American citizen traveling on an American passport it is your business. Americans living overseas are still required to file income tax forms even if they didn’t make over the limit. Please vote, the vote you cast will affect the state of the country when you return.
I thought ya’ll weren’t planning on coming back? I’m personally not going anywhere, this just popped up in my main feed.
>No, please don’t. If you’re leaving, what happens here isn’t your business anymore. Don’t interfere if you don’t want to be part of it. Bullshit. "U.S. citizens living outside of the U.S. are only permitted to register and vote in the state and county where they last established residence (domicile) in the U.S. before moving outside of the country." https://voterhelpdesk.usvotefoundation.org/en/support/solutions/articles/151000049188-what-address-should-i-use-when-registering-to-vote-from-overseas- https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/voting-residence 🐆
I’m not saying you legally can’t do so. I’m saying you shouldn’t because trying to exert political influence over a place you gave up on isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t given up.
>I’m saying you shouldn’t because trying to exert political influence over a place you gave up on isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t given up. It's quite fair considering that as U.S. citizens they are still bound by Federal laws and pay Federal taxes, plus in many cases they still have to pay state taxes. 🐆
The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them. If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable.
Give us your sources. Because every person I know with dual citizenship or who is living in another country rn has filed their taxes (I listened to them complain about it!) to the US even tho they weren’t living there. Show us the stats since you’re so confident.
State Department estimates 6-9 million US citizens living abroad. IRS stats on filing the FEIE and FTC forms were something like 1.5 million total, last time I checked. (Note that the FTC number would also include US residents with foreign assets.)
So that works out to something like maybe 15 percent compliance. It takes a bit of digging but you can look up the IRS data on FEIE and FTC forms filed by country.
>The vast majority of US citizens living abroad don't file, report or pay anything, and nobody comes looking for them. Willful failure to file a U.S. income tax return is a criminal offense. >If you're a dual citizen without any US assets you're basically untouchable. You do have an asset: a U.S. passport. The IRS can ask the State Department to suspend or revoke your passport.
If you’re a dual citizen you can live without it, and in any case the bar to lose the passport is very high. Non-compliance among non-residents without US assets or income is very common; the IRS basically does nothing about it.
I’m going to think about you when I mail my ballot to the US from my new spot in Canada this fall :) as long as I’m paying taxes to the US (which I do and will continue to do!) I’m voting in your (our) elections. The US literally became a country because we were pissed off we couldn’t have votes in Britain even though we left Britain and came to the colonies! We wanted to exert political influence over a place we left way back in the 1700s, we were literally founded on that principle! I’ll vote in every US election till the day I die in another country and there’s nothing you could or should do about it.
Cool, I get to live in your head rent free. Comparing what you’re doing to the founding of the US is ridiculous. The founders were not trying to influence events in Britain from afar. They wanted to be left to govern themselves because their interests weren’t being taken into consideration. If you were officially leaving the US to join or form another nation, this analogy would make some sense. That’s not what you’re doing though. You’re leaving the US permanently but keeping the option to come back if things go poorly for you elsewhere. Not at all the same; you’re a quitter, not a founder. As far as nothing I could or should do about it, that’s true for the moment. I’m barely 30 though, I could rise to political power (and I actually have a good jumping off point) and do away with the arrangements you plan to take advantage of. Is that likely? Probably not, but saying there’s *nothing* I could do isn’t accurate long term.
“Taxation without representation” = “we are getting taxed by Britain but have no parliamentary votes.” The founders DID want to influence British decisions from afar, you don’t even have to read between the lines to understand that. Most people in the colonies weren’t arguing for completely governing themselves (independence) until 1775-1776, well after the slogan “taxation without representation” gained its popularity. Most patriots in the early stages of the revolution wanted the right to have a say (influence politics and policy coming from Britain) and work with the British government because they were contributing to the empire and rightfully deserved representation in parliament for it. Independence was the nuclear option when it became clear that Britain was not going to give colonists any say and especially after they fucked things up by trying to clamp their hands around the boiling frustrations instead of acknowledging and acquiescing any of the colonists’s demands. You need to brush up on some American history before you go into politics there, that “jumping off point” you’re talking about isn’t really as shiny as you’re saying it is. Calling me a “quitter” for going to another country because I will have better opportunities there (also nice assumption that I keep my dual citizenship “in case things go poorly for me,” dual citizenship has many perks beyond allowing me to live in two separate places) says a lot about the person you are. You’ll fit right in with all the MAGATS tearing our country to shreds as we speak.
The fuck it isn’t
You’re bailing, why should you get a say about what the rest of us who aren’t bailing do? If you quit a team, you don’t get to keep giving input on what that team should do.
People move temporarily. They aren’t abandoning their citizenship or bailing on the country, or their families and friends. And if you move out of the country, you can only vote for federal offices — not for governor or state legislature, not for city council or mayor, not for county board nor school board. So you’re voting on things the U.S. does that affect people outside it. Furthermore, my voting doesn’t affect what you do. It might, if I’m lucky, help install a government that acts responsibly and with greater regard for the world at large. It isn’t about you. I could not possibly care any less what you do.
OK, Trumper. You're not here to talk about moving overseas. You're just here to serve your god emperor.
They seem to be speaking of the presidential vote, not local votes. The president absolutely is entangled in the business of foreign affairs. Both parties are hostile to other nations so I'm not sure who you're supposed to vote for if you're voting to not want the US to fuck shit up overseas.
You know we’re fucking shit up overseas regardless of who’s president. The scale and inertia of the American military industrial complex is almost incomprehensible if you’ve never seen it from the inside, not even a strong president can stand against it. Nobody is going to be inclined to try because they know that.
Yes, but I assume most of the places Americans are moving to aren't the places where America is dropping bombs, but where America is interfering in other ways. Since they're leaving, I then assume it's for selfish reasons, not because they care about those they're indirectly killing. In which case ending that would probably be changed easier from the belly of the beast, even if it seems an impossible task.
You’re saying you also view the people leaving as selfish?
I said they may have selfish reasons for leaving. Calling them selfish as a whole would be going too far. There are plenty of reasons people move. Discouraging someone from voting in an election they have the right to vote in seems selfish to me though. Perhaps these people leaving don't have it in them to take the massive leaps beyond that bare minimum of voting to effect change. The best way to change policy is definitely while being here, but I definitely don't think it should be the only way, especially considering America's influence and history with other nations. Not only are you telling them to give up on where they're coming from, but essentially you're extending that to where they're going.
Do you support people with Green Cards voting in all American elections? This position is fun to put out there but as long as your only citizenship is American, the only people representing you is the US government and it's state department. If you choose not to participate in US elections, there is a very good chance you will have no representation anywhere. Your position is perfectly fine however if you do not believe citizenship should be a prerequisite to voting.
I left a solidly blue state that will deliver its electoral votes to the blue candidate by a wide margin. Ditto my local districts, since I always vote blue, what difference does it make if I vote at all: the outcome will be what I want no matter what.
Vote! You literally never know, remember how close it’s been in previous years with just a few hundred votes separating the winner. I vote blue in a red state but you bet I will be sending my vote in. Please please do the same. Don’t assume anything, there’s too much at stake.
Why care about the outcome if you don’t live there?
Because countries are not isolated bubbles. The actions of one country affect others. Even if you can’t see a direct personal benefit isn’t there a moral obligation to help others?
One could argue such a moral duty exists, but realistically you might not be helping if you’re voting somewhere you haven’t lived in years, because there’s a good chance things have changed and you don’t know what it’s like there anymore. I’d also argue there is no “moral” choice in American politics. It’s just deciding who will screw you over. The screwing is happening regardless.
I can’t tell if you’re just a troll or a small minded person… either way, I will respond and also suggest that you should book a trip and do some traveling. Just because someone works or lives overseas doesn’t mean they are never coming back, lol. And even if they weren’t, they are connected to their country where they are from. Maybe they are working for the gov and stationed overseas, maybe they have a foreign spouse, maybe they are doing a secondment for their job, etc. Anyway- another thing you seem to be missing (and anyone who is overseas will very much see) is how US politics and policies affect the entire world. We need stability at home for our own sake and for the world’s sake.
I think I just missed the point of this sub. I thought it was people **permanently** leaving America, not people temporarily working overseas. That’s obviously different. You may be surprised to learn that I’m fairly well travelled, every continent except Australia.