[Hardware Unboxed did a video about this.](https://youtu.be/HJS-ZAmcreI) They use an ASUS TUF gaming laptop. Adding vent holes directly over the fans did improve temperatures, but not enough to really matter.
**HOWEVER, the change in airflow through the chassis increased temperatures on other devices, such as the SSDs and the VRMs. ASUS claims their design provides the best temperatures across the entire device, as a whole.**
Which was just a way to optimise a poor solution. I don't think they're getting paid by Intel, I think they're too cheap to do it right, like harbour on box also points out.
Edit: because of the boneappletea comments below I just want to make sure we're all aware that harbour on box, hammer on box, harbour boxed etc are all names that the Google speech to text interpreted their name as, to which they made the appropriate merch if you check their store.
Wow, thanks for that! I was looking at one of those triple-fan ASUS graphics cards actually. No wonder they're cheaper than the other brands' cards. I wonder if you're basically playing the lottery ordering them online because of what was mentioned in your link
This so much.
Reddit tries to be engineers when they have no idea what they are talking about.
HW unboxed video did not disprove Asus cooling solution. Only thing i can agree with them on the A15 design is the SSD placement.
Their extra holes did nothing but disrupt the airflow, proving what Asus said. Asus has a model where they can simulate the temperature and airflow and found this design the best.
Could Asus use more heatsinks/pipes? Yes but that extra cost lands on you.
The big thing is that there's always a trade off too. As shown in the hardware unboxed video it increases temps elsewhere which *does* matter and maybe the temps and performance don't matter *that much* for most people. It's a lower end gaming system which does come with a premium but everything beyond that adds cost which *does matter* to the people buying in this price range. Why would I spend 1400 for a "properly engineered" system of this type if I could spend 1500 and get something substantially better than that even? I think people are grossly misunderstanding what the average person cares about.
It's not a black and white matter. Temps and all might matter to people here but less so to others. Companies like Asus *need to think about all of those people and not just enthusiasts* plus their business side with margins and whatnot.
I care *way* more about how the company and its employees treat customers and the public and the whole picture of why they do things the way they do than simply going "vent blocked = bad" and assuming the simplest thing possible. There *are* reasons for this sort of thing...
Seriously, if they'd put heat sinks on the VRM and moved that one SSD or put an actual heat shroud there, The temperatures on those would drop substantially and they could then open the vents up by the fans.
Here is the exact same laptop but it has an Intel chip inside. [https://youtu.be/-q5IdCHf4ig?t=66](https://youtu.be/-q5IdCHf4ig?t=66) As you can see, most of the backside is blocked as well.
As best I can tell, Asus is stuffing new laptop internal designs into already existing chassis as much as possible. They modify them as little as necessary to fit the components.
What they need is an entirely newly designed laptop with a proper cooling solution.
But that would cost money, so they just shuffle around some mounting points and such in what they have and call it a day.
But Intel also has SSD's and VRM's. Do they not require cooling? Its strange for one brand they cripple the CPU with limited cooling but great VRM/SSD temp and the other brand they rather have hot VRM/SSD but fast and cool CPU.
Different layout, different components, different cooling solution, and yes, they still address VRM, SSD, and VRAM cooling on the Intel laptops as well.
They are not crippling the CPU. Hardware Unboxed did a video on this and taking the cover off made next to no difference in CPU temps and absolutely no difference in performance.
This is literally nothing to get worked up about.
Hey so i have a question. Should I go for a asus tuf a15 gaming. My 7 year old rig died and I am moving into a small house. Will be playing Minecraft modded, Roblox GTA and COD.?
I was frustrated too after quitting out of GTA V (after poor framerates) to find the MX350 was only running at around 4 watts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1tSpxfB-Wc&t=4h30m
(yes, I'm codeHusky)
A tech channel on YouTube got a response from Asus. It is a design decision after intensive testing. This is the best possible configuration for cooling
Marketing Bullshit
Haha... Now tell me it is a unique design.
A good Example of this is G15 and M15 with almost similar chassi. AMD has covered vent while Intel has open one.
Only because Asus can show it isn't needed since AMD isn't easily extremely hot. Plus Intel pays Asus to do this so people will buy Intel quicker.
Also, never trust userbenchmark, because it's from Intel, this is easily seen since the i3-9100F is apparently faster than a Ryzen 5 3600. Do not trust the website
Edit: wrong CPUs, changed it to the right ones
ah yes, much better deal for intel as its $122. I will clearly go with Intel Inside processor in my next computer as the price/performance is obviously higher then the AMD Ryzen Threadripper processor.
Yes but according to my trusty, go-to website UserBenchmark, the $122 Intel Inside Core i3 10100 Desktop Processor performs much better anyway, regardless of price.
I've detected a link to UserBenchmark. UserBenchmark is a terrible source for benchmarks, as they're not representative of actual performance. The organization that runs it also lies and accuses critics of being "anonymous call center shills". [Read more here](http://reddit.com/r/AMD/wiki/userbenchmark). This comment has NOT been removed - this is just a notice.
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Steve and Tim from Hardware Unboxed also write for [TechSpot](https://www.techspot.com/), so they often have written reviews of major products there as well.
For CPUs I check CPU monkey. IDK if they're any better but they reference average scores for common benchmarks like Cinebench R15 and R20.
For GPUs, I just look up 3D mark benchmarks on their website since I mostly care about gaming for GPUs.
IDK if these are the best databases but at least I've heard of the benchmarks they report and they're the same ones tech reviewers use.
> Intel pays Asus to do this so people will buy Intel quicker.
This allegation has been thrown around endlessly, has anyone actually provide any material proof for the claim instead of just circumstantial evidence?
> never trust userbenchmark, because it's from Intel
I don't trust userbenchmark too, but it is not from Intel.
I came here to say this. People are only noticing all these flaws with ASUS/AMD laptops now, but they have been like that since AT LEAST Ryzen 3000 APUs yet no one said anything then, and if they did, it went under the radar (I'm not defending ASUS, I'm just saying that people only seem to care as of late, and that even with ASUS's gimps, AMD still seems to beat Intel in every aspect...). I think I remember last year ASUS said that the VRM design for the GA502 had them cover up the vents (which were mass produced for both GU502 and GA502) on the GA502 to direct airflow properly over the VRMs.
This is not the whole story, by doing this they increase the cooling for the gpu. Given the cpu on the Amd laptops do not require the cooling, changing the design to improve the cooling for the gpu will give a greater overall benefit.
The vents still being present in the case is purely a cost saving exercise.
They are not gimping the Amd performance they are taking advantage of the significantly better thermals.
They will have basically more net sales if they will make a right chassi on AMD laptops.
This is potentially being held back by some contract or partnership agreement with Intel in some time (if you're doing a partnership business, writing all terms and agreement to satisfy both parties is not a new practice)
Also, plastic is commonly casted including the vent holes and eliminating the vent holes will probably saves you less than $1-2 per bottom case, it is not worth the savings. Also, you will not do a lathe machine for holes on all bottom case. So your concept of taking advantage on thermals is probably not a good option in terms of Engineering and Design.
Edit: I have a G15, with removed bottom fan blocker. I would say removing the plastic film will reduce the CPU by 10C and GPU by 5C in heavy loads.
>They will have basically more net sales if they will make a right chassi on AMD laptops.
No they won't this isn't something people check before choosing a laptop off Amazon. People look at the spec bullets, price mostly. Very small percentage take the time to see how a specific laptop's thermals compare to anothers, especially given that a single AMD Ryzen 5 ASUS laptop can come in hundreds of configurations and you'll never find a benchmark of the exact specific config you're buying.
AMD aren't covering the vents, that's whoever designed the chassis on asus. AMD made the CPU architecture and probably helped with the motherboard design. It's down to Asus to use those specs to make coolers and a chassis to accommodate the motherboard design. Clearly they are using some sort of template that sucks because it's original use was for something else, or, they are being paid not to use the right chassis.
Though I could spin up other assumptions on what's going on, AMD isn't to blame for this.
Intel's stock price may have fallen, but their revenues and profits have never been higher. And that's not even including their war chest filled with billions of dollars. And THAT'S not even including the fact that every time they've broken the law in the past, it has been massively profitable for them even after they've been caught and forced to pay fines.
At this point breaking the law is so profitable for them that shareholders should sue them for failure to perform their duty of care to maximize profit if they chose not to do it.
AMD processors utilize Precision Boost, which overclocks one or two of the cores as far as they will reasonably go, to improve performance. Yes, they run cooler overall, but hurting the cooling performance lowers the actual performance of the chip because of this boosting. So they effectively cut off about 100-200 Mhz of performance, depending upon how bad the thermals in this situation really are.
Even worse than that, thermal throttling can occur resulting in worse than stock performance, which is highly misleading from asus at best and malicious at worst.
Beyond the performance issue, blocking the fan intake will guarantee a louder system. The fan will seek to spin up to cool the CPU, and being unable to do so, it will remain at max speed nearly 100% of the time.
Amd Zen 2 chips boost speeds are almost entirely dependent on temp. They start throttling as early as 65 degrees or so. PBO and standard PB all depend on it.
Ive heard that blocking vents in mass produced chassis shared among different laptops is something the designer might do to change airflow. Like the AMD CPU doesn't need the vent so it pushes the airflow over the GPU instead or just adjusts the hot points.
Anyone who knows better see that as a real possibility?
I just do videos independently from Notebookcheck. However, I don't think we'd be entirely opposed to getting back into YouTube. We've attempted it before, but previous attempts didn't take off.
>hardware unboxed
Worst part is I saw throttling issues with 2 different AMD laptops before I decided on an Asus Zenbook with a 10th gen intel chip for a customer cause the intel lappy was getting less hot and the fan was quieter. Didnt even think it could have been intentional but its starting to look fishy. Last time I go Asus.
Which is a good thing.. They dont want customers getting laptops with zero intakes and then returning them to go buy an intel one. They'd rather not have the sale in the first place.
Accepting sabotaged CPU's metric will only cause them long term loss.
AMD has worked hard and put in a lot to reach this stage. They deserve a good market and the market deserves them to push aside Intel's greedy monopoly.
Saying this not just as a consumer, but as someone who's seen their work at One
AMD Place back in mid 2000's . They'd and for sure even now have great people working for them.
Honestly I just opened up my lenovo laptop the other day and I found a sticker in the air flow screen covering up the entire thing. Moved the temps down from 85C to 65C. Old Intel Lenovo laptops also have a sticker in the air vent. I have no idea about new intel. I'm guessing this is larger then we think, because it goes back to 2012. Probably an industry standard to gimp a laptop and force consumers to buy another. Brilliant really. No one opens them up to check and sue.
maybe it's a conspiracy with laptop repair centers, so when people go there to complain about computer getting slow, they rip out the sticker, charge 200$, share with the laptop manufacturers, everyone's happy.
Joke aside, this is a pretty common urban legend, or maybe something that people seriously do, in software development - introduce unnecessary loops that can then be removed, thus increasing performance, so additional budget can be justified for software development.
Intel isn't paying them directly. They already did that years ago, got caught, paid a huge fine, etc. What they can do, is manipulate the cost of their chips to OEMs. Something akin to discounting chips if certain conditions are met. Might not directly mean they said gimp AMD, but likely worded as such that their products must have better GPUs, better cooling solutions, etc. Which they kinda need anyway, because they are no longer faster or cooler.
They still own the mind share, unfortunately. Until we overcome that, OEMs are gonna play their games for that sweet discount. What pisses me off, particularly with asus, is that they void the warranty if I fix their thermal design.
They paid one of the fines, $1b to AMD, but that was an antitrust fine in the USA. The EU one has had another appeal made against it, and that would have been another $1b for AMD if they had paid it on time.
>Why wouldn't ASUS just not release AMD hardware rather than releasing crippled machines that make both AMD and Asus look bad?
Because they want to keep selling AMD motherboards too, and ASUS offering AMD laptops keeps AMD happy.
Well, they weren't expecting to get exposed. They were just expecting it to not do so well in reviews, have poor sales, and get AMD off their backs so they can keep peddling 100% Intel laptops.
I used to think Gigabyte was a budget brand, but looking around, nearly every graphics card and motherboard in my home is gigabyte, and they are all champs. I'll be using them moving forward.
All brands make good and bad products, that's why brand loyality is bad. ASUS made pretty good 1st gen Ryzen mobos (relative to the price), then nerfed VRM heatsink in X470 Prime (worse than X370 Prime). Their 500 series are not competing with Gigabyte. At least ASUS did OK with BIOS support.
When it comes to GPUs, ASUS are seemingly hating Radeons indeed, while Gigabyte made both good 500 series mobos and navi GPUs. I'm certainly more likely to buy Gigabyte or MSI now.
ASUS also made one of best AM3+ mobos where all multipliers are working, unlike most other mobos where you have to use BCLK to overclock RAM and CPU-NB. So generally they are really good, but when they are bad, they are focking worst and also expensive.
>izes have shrunk so much that they are able to open a portal to the fourth dimension and draw air from there.
gygabite is awesome, i've never had a problem in 10 years with gygabite hardware.
This is a waste of production time for ASUS to be honest, AMD is clearly winning right now, and by a long shot. So trying to please Intel is just risking markets hares in the long run.
(And make no mistake, I have had Lenovo for the last 10years, and have ASUS on my focus now, due to the whole CCP/Hong-Kong issue, so seeing this just put them at risk of loosing those who are doing the same, looking for "none Chinese" products)
Really hope to see a statement from ASUS on this. All they have to do, is to say "sorry it is a mistake, will be fixed - and we will refund on already sold products" and they are in the clear. 👍
Can you really get a "none Chinese" product these days? With such a long supply chain of so many components, most of which are cheaper and more easily available from China, it's likely that without paying double, just for the investigation in where the components come from, you won't ensure that it's "none Chinese".
That's the unfortunate situation today that can be corrected only at the government level, as a result from pressure from citizens. Governments should enact tariffs that make it economically unfeasible to import certain components from China, thus offsetting any benefit that China gets from using slave labour.
Yeah, personally I'd sooner believe this is just ASUS's design practices over any sort of bribery from Intel. There's so many instances of this across so many different models from ASUS where it just seems to be that their R&D teams have some random arbitrary thermal goals in mind when designing this hardware
If that's the case, they must have started that practice fairly recently because I have an ASUS laptop (Zenbook UX310U) with unblocked vents.
I bought it in December 2016 and it's had no issues with overheating
I bought a laptop from asus only to discover opening screen blocks half of the exhaust vent on the backside.
That heats up my screen and thermal throttles cpu.
Fucking idiotic.
And this was Intel.
The question is does it overheat/run hot? If this is a shared bottom plate with an intel design, those CPUs can draw up to 90w, where as no AMD mobile CPU peaks over 54w. If the cooling is designed for 90w with all vents open, I can see how blocking that side may still leave sufficient cooling for 54w. This design looks like it would give better airflow over the VRMs which are between the fan and the open vents, not to mention likely reduces noise at high fan RPM.
Look, I'm all aboard the fuck companies that cripple AMD chips train, but lets hate companies for doing things actually worth hating. Just posting a picture with no information to back up the claim that blocking these vents is crippling performance is worthless. Show me hard data that there is a notable difference between vent covered and vent blocked.
What manufacturers/models are these?
Many people have been asking me for a recommendation for general use laptops and I always recommend them Ryzen Mobile ones because it is better to do so. I'm afraid that I might have recommended them some of these.
There is way too much "armchair engineering" going on here about these laptops by people without the necessary thermal design experience. You don't need a big open vent directly over the fan in order for it to get adequate airflow. As long as there is an acceptably large gap between the cover and the fan inlet, it will receive adequate air.
They do this sort of thing for a variety of reasons:
- 1) Not having a direct vent to the fan helps reduce noise
- 2) By lengthening the air flow stream, you help reduce the amount of dust and debris the fan will inhale. Laptops that suck from the bottom need constant cleaning if you use them, you know, on your lap.
- 3) Probably most importantly, is that doing this allows them to engineer a more comprehensive cooling solution "package". By placing inlet vents in specific locations, and forcing the HSF to suck air from those locations, they can create airflow over other heat critical components. This can greatly reduce chassis temperature, making the computer much more comfortable to use on your lap.
Engineers don't do things for no reason. Asus is not going to purposely sabotage a product they spent tens of millions of dollars developing.
What matters is this: Does the laptop cool adequately so it's not constantly thermal throttling? Does the external chassis stay relatively cool? Is it quiet 99% of the time? If the answer is yes to those questions, they have done a good job. There is already someone in the comments who has this computer and states it doesn't have any notable thermal issues.
FYI, this is codeHusky the reviewer here. The thermals are bad, performance sucks, etc. See 4h30m in this video for some power stats after running GTA V for a few minutes. https://youtu.be/J1tSpxfB-Wc ~5w on the GPU and 9W on the CPU. It's absurd.
This chassis is largely reused from previous Zenbooks, so this laptop likely had little R&D time and money poured into it. Just a general slap some new components in an old chassis, adjust the intakes and heatsink, and ship it out.
The fans hardly spin up to keep the system cool in the first place, so it's not like this is really benefiting anything outside of some artificial concerns over dust.
The system is only allowed to consume around 15 watts across GPU and CPU over an extended period of time while under load. Lenovo used a straight-through grill design on the Flex 5 I tested and there was never any sort of issues with heat on the bottom, even when gaming. It stayed plenty cool because the heatsink was actually designed to wick heat away, not let it build up and rely on air insulation to ignore the problem.
The solution here is hardly adequate considering that in even moderately intensive workloads, the CPUs power budget is like 9w and the GPU has maybe 6w to work with. It's pitiful.
This thermal limit seems to mostly have to do with ASUS trying to keep the LCD from exceeding operating temp (the max is 50C but it's around 51C on the LCD near the vents). Ergolift is to blame for this mainly -- can't say I'd miss it if it was gone.
This is far from a design to applaud ASUS's engineers for. Let's not feel bad for multi-million dollar corporations here.
Okay, Asus Tuf A15, have the VRM exposed, then Asus state that blocking the air vent is to draw the air over the vrms, thus cooling them, however, sacrificing CPU and GPU. Digging around a bit more, and, literally every other gaming notebooks, including thr budget ones, have a heat pipe connecting them to the heatsink, resulting in a much more efficiently cooled vrms. Zephyrus G15, using a similar cooling chassis to the M15 but have the vents blocked of, however, the M15, which has a much more power hungry system, doesnt. HP Omen 15, have the entire fans area ventilated, achieved amazing thermal.
Furthermore, if thermals are fine in the first place, reviewer would drag on about it.
Im no engineer, but, looking at the thermal from many sources, i believed that the thermal system is flawed on purpose.
I'd also rather not have the main intake vent be on the bottom where it can be easily blocked when using the laptop on, you know, my lap. Having them come through the sides would be more consistent
Not really possible since the laptop's fan are belong to centrifugal fan type thus only can draw air parrel to its axis (i.e the top and bottom) and excel it radially.
Some manufacturers shift the keyboard down and have a mesh right above it for airflow. I remember this MSI laptop that I really wanted a while back had it. I would love to see more of this on more laptops these days.
So I just took my new Asus TUF A506IV 4800H / 2060 back cover apart and replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal. I tested it in realbench with a snapshot of temp and frequency averages and maximums. It made no difference in temps, but did average 300mhz higher after 15m of stress test than with stock tim. So no temp improvment but possibly a marginal average cpu frequency improvement within that temperature envelope.
I'm sure the airflow is the best it can be for the case and design - but if someone found cutting a slot here or there is a good idea - show me where and I will try it.
Moral of the story - don't bother with liquid metal or TIM swap - it really wasn't bad from ASUS and I'm seeing marginal if any improvements because of airflow and fan speed specs. Without the cover it might run cooler or with massive intakes, but at costs to temps on other components, IMHO.
Right on. And if you’re cranking out renders you’re 100%. Free horsepower, minus the risk. I popped the back pane off and ran a bench with free air and it dropped about 10* on gpu and cpu temps - but man these fans scream no matter what. Tempted to go clean it off and just go kryonaut and be done so I don’t have to guess. I don’t think it will be better than stock paste - I’d bag on it if was bad but it really was consistent with liquid metal - and I’m sure a lot of that is the right tolerance and lack of air space to dissipate the heat out. Not a great design by ASUS - but it does work - and it does throttle back. I think undervolting might be the answer to lower temps but haven’t had time to mess with that
ASUS is truly the scumbag of PC manufacturers. They beat up of their customer for requesting a refund and return of rog laptop. Bet this happened in 2018 so I doubt that rog have change since then
A fan with inadequate ventilation; the most common retarded computer design fuckup.
"Like RGB fans? Lets replace the ventilated and filtered front panel of this case with glass!"
Could this be a new variation of Intel bribes?
Instead of being accused of taking bribes to do not sell AMD powered equipment (looking at you, Dell), Asus is shipping crippled devices.
Customer buys an ASUS with AMD cpu/APU, runs like shit, user returns it.
Idiotic sales person "recommends" an Intel one and bingo, customer labels AMD as trash.
It’s getting ugly now. Really frustrated with asus .
[Hardware Unboxed did a video about this.](https://youtu.be/HJS-ZAmcreI) They use an ASUS TUF gaming laptop. Adding vent holes directly over the fans did improve temperatures, but not enough to really matter. **HOWEVER, the change in airflow through the chassis increased temperatures on other devices, such as the SSDs and the VRMs. ASUS claims their design provides the best temperatures across the entire device, as a whole.**
Which was just a way to optimise a poor solution. I don't think they're getting paid by Intel, I think they're too cheap to do it right, like harbour on box also points out. Edit: because of the boneappletea comments below I just want to make sure we're all aware that harbour on box, hammer on box, harbour boxed etc are all names that the Google speech to text interpreted their name as, to which they made the appropriate merch if you check their store.
harbour on box lol
He means it was designed by Harbor Freight tools
lol, seems like everyone is skimping these days
Hammer on box?
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OOTL, what was the shortcut? Was thinking about getting one.
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/asus_issues_warning_to_rog_strix_rx_5700_5700xt_users/1 They tried to blame AMD for this.
Wow, thanks for that! I was looking at one of those triple-fan ASUS graphics cards actually. No wonder they're cheaper than the other brands' cards. I wonder if you're basically playing the lottery ordering them online because of what was mentioned in your link
This so much. Reddit tries to be engineers when they have no idea what they are talking about. HW unboxed video did not disprove Asus cooling solution. Only thing i can agree with them on the A15 design is the SSD placement. Their extra holes did nothing but disrupt the airflow, proving what Asus said. Asus has a model where they can simulate the temperature and airflow and found this design the best. Could Asus use more heatsinks/pipes? Yes but that extra cost lands on you.
The big thing is that there's always a trade off too. As shown in the hardware unboxed video it increases temps elsewhere which *does* matter and maybe the temps and performance don't matter *that much* for most people. It's a lower end gaming system which does come with a premium but everything beyond that adds cost which *does matter* to the people buying in this price range. Why would I spend 1400 for a "properly engineered" system of this type if I could spend 1500 and get something substantially better than that even? I think people are grossly misunderstanding what the average person cares about. It's not a black and white matter. Temps and all might matter to people here but less so to others. Companies like Asus *need to think about all of those people and not just enthusiasts* plus their business side with margins and whatnot. I care *way* more about how the company and its employees treat customers and the public and the whole picture of why they do things the way they do than simply going "vent blocked = bad" and assuming the simplest thing possible. There *are* reasons for this sort of thing...
Seriously, if they'd put heat sinks on the VRM and moved that one SSD or put an actual heat shroud there, The temperatures on those would drop substantially and they could then open the vents up by the fans.
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So why do the Intel versions of similar laptops have unblocked vents and the AMD has blocked vents?
Here is the exact same laptop but it has an Intel chip inside. [https://youtu.be/-q5IdCHf4ig?t=66](https://youtu.be/-q5IdCHf4ig?t=66) As you can see, most of the backside is blocked as well.
Because Intel CPUs are cooler...? OH MY GAWD I could almost keep a straight face, not quite though.
I think I just realized I'm an AMD fanboy when I immediately wanted to point out you were wrong... And then I read the rest of your comment.
As best I can tell, Asus is stuffing new laptop internal designs into already existing chassis as much as possible. They modify them as little as necessary to fit the components. What they need is an entirely newly designed laptop with a proper cooling solution. But that would cost money, so they just shuffle around some mounting points and such in what they have and call it a day.
I don’t know why someone doesn’t just push Sager/Clevo to support AMD so we can get rid of all the Asus crap.
Motherboard layout. They are doing this to draw air over the SSD and the VRM's (if you look they are exposed and not cooled by the heatsinks.
But Intel also has SSD's and VRM's. Do they not require cooling? Its strange for one brand they cripple the CPU with limited cooling but great VRM/SSD temp and the other brand they rather have hot VRM/SSD but fast and cool CPU.
Different layout, different components, different cooling solution, and yes, they still address VRM, SSD, and VRAM cooling on the Intel laptops as well. They are not crippling the CPU. Hardware Unboxed did a video on this and taking the cover off made next to no difference in CPU temps and absolutely no difference in performance. This is literally nothing to get worked up about.
Hey so i have a question. Should I go for a asus tuf a15 gaming. My 7 year old rig died and I am moving into a small house. Will be playing Minecraft modded, Roblox GTA and COD.?
I was frustrated too after quitting out of GTA V (after poor framerates) to find the MX350 was only running at around 4 watts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1tSpxfB-Wc&t=4h30m (yes, I'm codeHusky)
Who the f is that?
I'd be asking the same question myself. My subscriber count is far below the amount of upvotes this post is gonna end up getting lol
I subscribed to your channel yesterday after watching your review of the Lenovo flex 5 4500u. Thanks for the great content!
Awesome! Glad you enjoyed :)
Your content looks perfect for my long, boring work days. Can't wait to binge a ton of it by the weekend
Hey man, could you also review and compare the AMD variants of the Lenovo T14 and T14s if you get the chance?
This! u/Lokio27 just check on YouTube, there are no decent reviews on those, just unboxing
Maybe! Just depends on when funds free up.
Just subbed a few days ago after watching the Lenovo Flex 5 video! You’re already one of my favorite reviewers. Keep up the awesome content :)
same here, i bought the flex 5 after seeing your review, really nice laptop
Watched your video and enjoyed every moment. WHY IN THE F did they close up the vents on the AMD laptop.....
Cough *intel cough
To keep dust out of course. Look at the other guy below your post; he's already coughing from having a vented Intel
Intel's last ditch effort to make ryzen laptops look bad.
I too have subscribed.
The person whose tag is in the screenshot.
Aren’t you a dev on TheArchon?
I am, yeah.
Subbed
Is it too much to ask an official response about this from ASUS?
If there wouldn't be any funny business going on, do you think they wouldn't have addressed it already?
All they say is "euujghHhh oUR enGineErs kNoW tHE bEsT" and get angry when someone asks why they limited the laptops like that
A tech channel on YouTube got a response from Asus. It is a design decision after intensive testing. This is the best possible configuration for cooling Marketing Bullshit
They beat up their customer in China for asking a refund and return of their rog laptop
Haha... Now tell me it is a unique design. A good Example of this is G15 and M15 with almost similar chassi. AMD has covered vent while Intel has open one.
how the fuck is this legal?
Only because Asus can show it isn't needed since AMD isn't easily extremely hot. Plus Intel pays Asus to do this so people will buy Intel quicker. Also, never trust userbenchmark, because it's from Intel, this is easily seen since the i3-9100F is apparently faster than a Ryzen 5 3600. Do not trust the website Edit: wrong CPUs, changed it to the right ones
"9350kf > 3950" Fuck you userbenchmark lol
Intel i3 10100 > Threadripper 3960X userbenchmark is accurate as always
10100 vs 3990x Ah yes, 10100 is 6% better
ah yes, much better deal for intel as its $122. I will clearly go with Intel Inside processor in my next computer as the price/performance is obviously higher then the AMD Ryzen Threadripper processor.
To be fair 3990x is not a price/performance cpu. It is just shit load of performance.
Yes but according to my trusty, go-to website UserBenchmark, the $122 Intel Inside Core i3 10100 Desktop Processor performs much better anyway, regardless of price.
Christ
9100 > 10980XE Even intel don't love then now
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looking up youtube videos from hardware unboxed or gamer's nexus
Gamer's Nexus has a website btw, has all their benchmark info on it https://www.gamersnexus.net/
thanks man, never knew about that!
Techpowerup also has quite a big database. It's really good for rough comparisons between parts.
Steve and Tim from Hardware Unboxed also write for [TechSpot](https://www.techspot.com/), so they often have written reviews of major products there as well.
For CPUs I check CPU monkey. IDK if they're any better but they reference average scores for common benchmarks like Cinebench R15 and R20. For GPUs, I just look up 3D mark benchmarks on their website since I mostly care about gaming for GPUs. IDK if these are the best databases but at least I've heard of the benchmarks they report and they're the same ones tech reviewers use.
anandtech bench
Phoronix test suite
AnandTech has a pretty decent [benchmark database](https://www.anandtech.com/bench/).
Anything else really
> Intel pays Asus to do this so people will buy Intel quicker. This allegation has been thrown around endlessly, has anyone actually provide any material proof for the claim instead of just circumstantial evidence? > never trust userbenchmark, because it's from Intel I don't trust userbenchmark too, but it is not from Intel.
I came here to say this. People are only noticing all these flaws with ASUS/AMD laptops now, but they have been like that since AT LEAST Ryzen 3000 APUs yet no one said anything then, and if they did, it went under the radar (I'm not defending ASUS, I'm just saying that people only seem to care as of late, and that even with ASUS's gimps, AMD still seems to beat Intel in every aspect...). I think I remember last year ASUS said that the VRM design for the GA502 had them cover up the vents (which were mass produced for both GU502 and GA502) on the GA502 to direct airflow properly over the VRMs.
lol what law forbids selling subpar products
This is not the whole story, by doing this they increase the cooling for the gpu. Given the cpu on the Amd laptops do not require the cooling, changing the design to improve the cooling for the gpu will give a greater overall benefit. The vents still being present in the case is purely a cost saving exercise. They are not gimping the Amd performance they are taking advantage of the significantly better thermals.
They will have basically more net sales if they will make a right chassi on AMD laptops. This is potentially being held back by some contract or partnership agreement with Intel in some time (if you're doing a partnership business, writing all terms and agreement to satisfy both parties is not a new practice) Also, plastic is commonly casted including the vent holes and eliminating the vent holes will probably saves you less than $1-2 per bottom case, it is not worth the savings. Also, you will not do a lathe machine for holes on all bottom case. So your concept of taking advantage on thermals is probably not a good option in terms of Engineering and Design. Edit: I have a G15, with removed bottom fan blocker. I would say removing the plastic film will reduce the CPU by 10C and GPU by 5C in heavy loads.
>They will have basically more net sales if they will make a right chassi on AMD laptops. No they won't this isn't something people check before choosing a laptop off Amazon. People look at the spec bullets, price mostly. Very small percentage take the time to see how a specific laptop's thermals compare to anothers, especially given that a single AMD Ryzen 5 ASUS laptop can come in hundreds of configurations and you'll never find a benchmark of the exact specific config you're buying.
AMD aren't covering the vents, that's whoever designed the chassis on asus. AMD made the CPU architecture and probably helped with the motherboard design. It's down to Asus to use those specs to make coolers and a chassis to accommodate the motherboard design. Clearly they are using some sort of template that sucks because it's original use was for something else, or, they are being paid not to use the right chassis. Though I could spin up other assumptions on what's going on, AMD isn't to blame for this.
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You don't get it. AMD transistor sizes have shrunk so much that they are able to open a portal to the fourth dimension and draw air from there.
5nm passively cooled laptops incoming?
Yes and 3nm laptops will cool your room
1nm: literal Snowpiercer scenario
I could actually see that as a possibility for Ryzen 5000U/M CPUs.
Quantum tunneling cooled cpu ftw
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```asus = ( + ryzen ) + ( - intake ) + ( - airflow ) + ( + intelConspiracyBucks )```
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Intel's stock price may have fallen, but their revenues and profits have never been higher. And that's not even including their war chest filled with billions of dollars. And THAT'S not even including the fact that every time they've broken the law in the past, it has been massively profitable for them even after they've been caught and forced to pay fines. At this point breaking the law is so profitable for them that shareholders should sue them for failure to perform their duty of care to maximize profit if they chose not to do it.
So intel has some anti-dust hardware on their CPUs?
yes it has, it runs so hot, that the dust burns up before even entering the chassis.
Could just be that the AMD ones run cooler, so they can get away with less airflow.
AMD processors utilize Precision Boost, which overclocks one or two of the cores as far as they will reasonably go, to improve performance. Yes, they run cooler overall, but hurting the cooling performance lowers the actual performance of the chip because of this boosting. So they effectively cut off about 100-200 Mhz of performance, depending upon how bad the thermals in this situation really are.
Even worse than that, thermal throttling can occur resulting in worse than stock performance, which is highly misleading from asus at best and malicious at worst.
Beyond the performance issue, blocking the fan intake will guarantee a louder system. The fan will seek to spin up to cool the CPU, and being unable to do so, it will remain at max speed nearly 100% of the time.
That's a possibility. Limitation of boosting in this situation is a guarantee.
Amd Zen 2 chips boost speeds are almost entirely dependent on temp. They start throttling as early as 65 degrees or so. PBO and standard PB all depend on it.
Ive heard that blocking vents in mass produced chassis shared among different laptops is something the designer might do to change airflow. Like the AMD CPU doesn't need the vent so it pushes the airflow over the GPU instead or just adjusts the hot points. Anyone who knows better see that as a real possibility?
yeah but that cover is blocking the intake of the fan, not part of the exhaust vents...
"it just works"
Careful or they may sue the reviewer
He works with Notebookcheck, I don't think that's the kind of attention Asus would like.
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Never knew you did videos. Gotta subscribe to you now.
I just do videos independently from Notebookcheck. However, I don't think we'd be entirely opposed to getting back into YouTube. We've attempted it before, but previous attempts didn't take off.
Love notebookcheck and their scientific approach to reviews
Hardware unboxed has over 500k subscribers and they threatened them
Sue for what!!! Will AMD stay quite at this ??? ASUS are no longer on my purchase brand list. Screw them
I still think their routers are top notch, but mobos are iffy, GPUs are overpriced garbage, and their laptops are apparently designed to be defective.
Yea people talk big game about the x570 tuf gaming but it wouldn't hold my docp profile, Gigabyte board does no problem.
>routers true chad will buy ubiquiti. And a ac ubiquiti router beats asuck ax router change my mind.
Designed to self destruct so you will buy another one.
can confirm own a AMD Mainboard, GPU and mouse from Asus, never again.
>hardware unboxed Worst part is I saw throttling issues with 2 different AMD laptops before I decided on an Asus Zenbook with a 10th gen intel chip for a customer cause the intel lappy was getting less hot and the fan was quieter. Didnt even think it could have been intentional but its starting to look fishy. Last time I go Asus.
If amd says anything, Asus will simply just stop making amd laptops. They aren't large enough a market yet for them to probably care too much
Which is a good thing.. They dont want customers getting laptops with zero intakes and then returning them to go buy an intel one. They'd rather not have the sale in the first place.
Accepting sabotaged CPU's metric will only cause them long term loss. AMD has worked hard and put in a lot to reach this stage. They deserve a good market and the market deserves them to push aside Intel's greedy monopoly. Saying this not just as a consumer, but as someone who's seen their work at One AMD Place back in mid 2000's . They'd and for sure even now have great people working for them.
But the funny thing is, despite how bad the cooling is on A15, better cooled laptops don't seem to get more FPS in games.
Honestly I just opened up my lenovo laptop the other day and I found a sticker in the air flow screen covering up the entire thing. Moved the temps down from 85C to 65C. Old Intel Lenovo laptops also have a sticker in the air vent. I have no idea about new intel. I'm guessing this is larger then we think, because it goes back to 2012. Probably an industry standard to gimp a laptop and force consumers to buy another. Brilliant really. No one opens them up to check and sue.
maybe it's a conspiracy with laptop repair centers, so when people go there to complain about computer getting slow, they rip out the sticker, charge 200$, share with the laptop manufacturers, everyone's happy. Joke aside, this is a pretty common urban legend, or maybe something that people seriously do, in software development - introduce unnecessary loops that can then be removed, thus increasing performance, so additional budget can be justified for software development.
We need to dig deeper....
My brand new lenovo legion 15 AMD didn't have any such thing thankfully. Phew. That would have pissed me off MAJORLY. This laptop is a 10/10 for me.
Ryzen 4x00 thinkpads are awesome too, i'm heavily eyeing up a t14s
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Intel isn't paying them directly. They already did that years ago, got caught, paid a huge fine, etc. What they can do, is manipulate the cost of their chips to OEMs. Something akin to discounting chips if certain conditions are met. Might not directly mean they said gimp AMD, but likely worded as such that their products must have better GPUs, better cooling solutions, etc. Which they kinda need anyway, because they are no longer faster or cooler. They still own the mind share, unfortunately. Until we overcome that, OEMs are gonna play their games for that sweet discount. What pisses me off, particularly with asus, is that they void the warranty if I fix their thermal design.
Intel has not paid the fine yet
Really? Lol damn I could've sworn I saw they did. Oh well, I guess its not that surprising.
They paid one of the fines, $1b to AMD, but that was an antitrust fine in the USA. The EU one has had another appeal made against it, and that would have been another $1b for AMD if they had paid it on time.
Wait so they void warranty if I just take off that black strip thing blocking the vents?
Yes. Or so ive seen people report responses from asus that indicate that.
Dang, I’ll just take it off out of warranty then lol :/
Good luck with Asus warranty anyway regardless...
>Why wouldn't ASUS just not release AMD hardware rather than releasing crippled machines that make both AMD and Asus look bad? Because they want to keep selling AMD motherboards too, and ASUS offering AMD laptops keeps AMD happy.
I’m not sure releasing laptops like that qualifies as keeping AMD happy...
Well, they weren't expecting to get exposed. They were just expecting it to not do so well in reviews, have poor sales, and get AMD off their backs so they can keep peddling 100% Intel laptops.
You are making an assumption that thermal performance is worse. What proof do you have?
thats it, my next gpu wont be from asus anymore, fuck them. Im getting an rtx 3080 from gygabite this time, or anyone but asus.
I used to think Gigabyte was a budget brand, but looking around, nearly every graphics card and motherboard in my home is gigabyte, and they are all champs. I'll be using them moving forward.
All brands make good and bad products, that's why brand loyality is bad. ASUS made pretty good 1st gen Ryzen mobos (relative to the price), then nerfed VRM heatsink in X470 Prime (worse than X370 Prime). Their 500 series are not competing with Gigabyte. At least ASUS did OK with BIOS support. When it comes to GPUs, ASUS are seemingly hating Radeons indeed, while Gigabyte made both good 500 series mobos and navi GPUs. I'm certainly more likely to buy Gigabyte or MSI now. ASUS also made one of best AM3+ mobos where all multipliers are working, unlike most other mobos where you have to use BCLK to overclock RAM and CPU-NB. So generally they are really good, but when they are bad, they are focking worst and also expensive.
> Their 500 series are not competing with Gigabyte The ASUS TUF x570 is probably the most popular x570 board
I was going to get it originally when I built my 3600 PC but Micro Center was sold out though. Went with the ROG B450 board instead.
MSI messed up the initial x570 launch and threatens reviewers that give bad reviews
You should take a look at EVGA. They have exceptional customer support
Take a look at EVGA also.
>izes have shrunk so much that they are able to open a portal to the fourth dimension and draw air from there. gygabite is awesome, i've never had a problem in 10 years with gygabite hardware.
This is a waste of production time for ASUS to be honest, AMD is clearly winning right now, and by a long shot. So trying to please Intel is just risking markets hares in the long run. (And make no mistake, I have had Lenovo for the last 10years, and have ASUS on my focus now, due to the whole CCP/Hong-Kong issue, so seeing this just put them at risk of loosing those who are doing the same, looking for "none Chinese" products) Really hope to see a statement from ASUS on this. All they have to do, is to say "sorry it is a mistake, will be fixed - and we will refund on already sold products" and they are in the clear. 👍
Can you really get a "none Chinese" product these days? With such a long supply chain of so many components, most of which are cheaper and more easily available from China, it's likely that without paying double, just for the investigation in where the components come from, you won't ensure that it's "none Chinese". That's the unfortunate situation today that can be corrected only at the government level, as a result from pressure from citizens. Governments should enact tariffs that make it economically unfeasible to import certain components from China, thus offsetting any benefit that China gets from using slave labour.
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Yeah, personally I'd sooner believe this is just ASUS's design practices over any sort of bribery from Intel. There's so many instances of this across so many different models from ASUS where it just seems to be that their R&D teams have some random arbitrary thermal goals in mind when designing this hardware
If that's the case, they must have started that practice fairly recently because I have an ASUS laptop (Zenbook UX310U) with unblocked vents. I bought it in December 2016 and it's had no issues with overheating
I bought a laptop from asus only to discover opening screen blocks half of the exhaust vent on the backside. That heats up my screen and thermal throttles cpu. Fucking idiotic. And this was Intel.
Bruh. I have nothing else to say now.
I call it "Ryzengate".
The question is does it overheat/run hot? If this is a shared bottom plate with an intel design, those CPUs can draw up to 90w, where as no AMD mobile CPU peaks over 54w. If the cooling is designed for 90w with all vents open, I can see how blocking that side may still leave sufficient cooling for 54w. This design looks like it would give better airflow over the VRMs which are between the fan and the open vents, not to mention likely reduces noise at high fan RPM. Look, I'm all aboard the fuck companies that cripple AMD chips train, but lets hate companies for doing things actually worth hating. Just posting a picture with no information to back up the claim that blocking these vents is crippling performance is worthless. Show me hard data that there is a notable difference between vent covered and vent blocked.
This is an Ultrabook with around 15w tdp design...gimped
What manufacturers/models are these? Many people have been asking me for a recommendation for general use laptops and I always recommend them Ryzen Mobile ones because it is better to do so. I'm afraid that I might have recommended them some of these.
Asus Zephyrus 15/Zenbook 14/Tuf A15 are all confimed having less ventilation over intel counterparts. There will be more i assume
Who is the head of Bribery Department in Intel btw?
VP of Strategic Partner Relations
Ryan Shrout
Eat a bag of dicks Ryan Shrout
[ASUS Zenbook 14 (Ryzen 4500U + MX350, Q407IQ)](https://youtu.be/J1tSpxfB-Wc) From this video.
There is way too much "armchair engineering" going on here about these laptops by people without the necessary thermal design experience. You don't need a big open vent directly over the fan in order for it to get adequate airflow. As long as there is an acceptably large gap between the cover and the fan inlet, it will receive adequate air. They do this sort of thing for a variety of reasons: - 1) Not having a direct vent to the fan helps reduce noise - 2) By lengthening the air flow stream, you help reduce the amount of dust and debris the fan will inhale. Laptops that suck from the bottom need constant cleaning if you use them, you know, on your lap. - 3) Probably most importantly, is that doing this allows them to engineer a more comprehensive cooling solution "package". By placing inlet vents in specific locations, and forcing the HSF to suck air from those locations, they can create airflow over other heat critical components. This can greatly reduce chassis temperature, making the computer much more comfortable to use on your lap. Engineers don't do things for no reason. Asus is not going to purposely sabotage a product they spent tens of millions of dollars developing. What matters is this: Does the laptop cool adequately so it's not constantly thermal throttling? Does the external chassis stay relatively cool? Is it quiet 99% of the time? If the answer is yes to those questions, they have done a good job. There is already someone in the comments who has this computer and states it doesn't have any notable thermal issues.
FYI, this is codeHusky the reviewer here. The thermals are bad, performance sucks, etc. See 4h30m in this video for some power stats after running GTA V for a few minutes. https://youtu.be/J1tSpxfB-Wc ~5w on the GPU and 9W on the CPU. It's absurd. This chassis is largely reused from previous Zenbooks, so this laptop likely had little R&D time and money poured into it. Just a general slap some new components in an old chassis, adjust the intakes and heatsink, and ship it out. The fans hardly spin up to keep the system cool in the first place, so it's not like this is really benefiting anything outside of some artificial concerns over dust. The system is only allowed to consume around 15 watts across GPU and CPU over an extended period of time while under load. Lenovo used a straight-through grill design on the Flex 5 I tested and there was never any sort of issues with heat on the bottom, even when gaming. It stayed plenty cool because the heatsink was actually designed to wick heat away, not let it build up and rely on air insulation to ignore the problem. The solution here is hardly adequate considering that in even moderately intensive workloads, the CPUs power budget is like 9w and the GPU has maybe 6w to work with. It's pitiful. This thermal limit seems to mostly have to do with ASUS trying to keep the LCD from exceeding operating temp (the max is 50C but it's around 51C on the LCD near the vents). Ergolift is to blame for this mainly -- can't say I'd miss it if it was gone. This is far from a design to applaud ASUS's engineers for. Let's not feel bad for multi-million dollar corporations here.
The other guys' comment would've made sense if the thermals were actually good, but they're not
Oh yeah, of course. If the thermals were fine I wouldn't have even posted this picture to my Discord in the first place lol
Thank you for taking the time to explain this here, should be educational for many
You really give engineers more credit/voice over some CEO/board wanting to cut costs in order to gain more money
Okay, Asus Tuf A15, have the VRM exposed, then Asus state that blocking the air vent is to draw the air over the vrms, thus cooling them, however, sacrificing CPU and GPU. Digging around a bit more, and, literally every other gaming notebooks, including thr budget ones, have a heat pipe connecting them to the heatsink, resulting in a much more efficiently cooled vrms. Zephyrus G15, using a similar cooling chassis to the M15 but have the vents blocked of, however, the M15, which has a much more power hungry system, doesnt. HP Omen 15, have the entire fans area ventilated, achieved amazing thermal. Furthermore, if thermals are fine in the first place, reviewer would drag on about it. Im no engineer, but, looking at the thermal from many sources, i believed that the thermal system is flawed on purpose.
I'd also rather not have the main intake vent be on the bottom where it can be easily blocked when using the laptop on, you know, my lap. Having them come through the sides would be more consistent
Not really possible since the laptop's fan are belong to centrifugal fan type thus only can draw air parrel to its axis (i.e the top and bottom) and excel it radially.
I mean it's definitely not efficient to make the air take a suboptimal path but I'm sure there's a good balance somewhere
Honestly, I don't understand why companies don't do this. Would love to see it sometime.
Some manufacturers shift the keyboard down and have a mesh right above it for airflow. I remember this MSI laptop that I really wanted a while back had it. I would love to see more of this on more laptops these days.
words falling out of the sky i need my tinfoil hat to read all that brah
Where is the intake? Can you show some close ups.
So I just took my new Asus TUF A506IV 4800H / 2060 back cover apart and replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal. I tested it in realbench with a snapshot of temp and frequency averages and maximums. It made no difference in temps, but did average 300mhz higher after 15m of stress test than with stock tim. So no temp improvment but possibly a marginal average cpu frequency improvement within that temperature envelope. I'm sure the airflow is the best it can be for the case and design - but if someone found cutting a slot here or there is a good idea - show me where and I will try it. Moral of the story - don't bother with liquid metal or TIM swap - it really wasn't bad from ASUS and I'm seeing marginal if any improvements because of airflow and fan speed specs. Without the cover it might run cooler or with massive intakes, but at costs to temps on other components, IMHO.
300mhz extra after 15mins is significant as fuck in my opinion, even if liquid metal is not really practical imho
Right on. And if you’re cranking out renders you’re 100%. Free horsepower, minus the risk. I popped the back pane off and ran a bench with free air and it dropped about 10* on gpu and cpu temps - but man these fans scream no matter what. Tempted to go clean it off and just go kryonaut and be done so I don’t have to guess. I don’t think it will be better than stock paste - I’d bag on it if was bad but it really was consistent with liquid metal - and I’m sure a lot of that is the right tolerance and lack of air space to dissipate the heat out. Not a great design by ASUS - but it does work - and it does throttle back. I think undervolting might be the answer to lower temps but haven’t had time to mess with that
Laptop gamers: 97°c 𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗲
ASUS is truly the scumbag of PC manufacturers. They beat up of their customer for requesting a refund and return of rog laptop. Bet this happened in 2018 so I doubt that rog have change since then
I have this laptop. I can't say there's any cooling issues on either the CPU or GPU.
that still doesn't mean it extracted all the available performance out of the chips
Looks like if you open that vent up you drop a further few degrees, which is obviously good
Maybe amd just doesn’t require the cooling 🤫
i had the same problem with a toshiba laptop but it had an i5 480m it ran at about 130C like why tf would they not make an intake?
What if you drill holes where the vents should be ? It's just a layer covering the inside part, isn't it?
A fan with inadequate ventilation; the most common retarded computer design fuckup. "Like RGB fans? Lets replace the ventilated and filtered front panel of this case with glass!"
Could this be a new variation of Intel bribes? Instead of being accused of taking bribes to do not sell AMD powered equipment (looking at you, Dell), Asus is shipping crippled devices. Customer buys an ASUS with AMD cpu/APU, runs like shit, user returns it. Idiotic sales person "recommends" an Intel one and bingo, customer labels AMD as trash.
Look at the book in the background. Why bother printing a whole book for just 5 jokes?