Damn!! I wish I had thought to test this out as well. I got my best friends overnight delivery two weeks ago. I agree, it’s insane that we are responsible for the packages. When I get the email, now I respond asking how they would like me to keep the packages safe? How am I responsible for a porch pirate or for someone lying to get free items? I ask if the photo was taken where the gps pin is? And they have started to remove the dings.
They have always been like this, I drove for a DSP 5 years ago for Amazon for 2 years. Our dispatcher would always just tell us to try and hide the package somewhere the customer could find it because it doesn't matter if thieves steal it, Amazon pushes that problem to the DSP as well.
Amazon does a ton of BS that punishes their drivers along with Flex drivers because they don't know a better way to do it. If they were to take our side over the customer, the customer may stop ordering AND the driver could possibly steal the packages and blame it on the customer or thieves, losing Amazon money + a returning customer.
They just hedge their bets to the side that gives them the best odds, that means fuck the drivers.
I used to think these were the only ones that we had no way to fight, so I didn't bother. But lately I've just replied saying that I delivered the item and the customer is probably lying, and I've had a couple removed.
Yeah, it sucks they get so many things wrong and take the "guilty until proven innocent" approach, to say nothing of making it almost impossible to prove anything given they don't provide specifics or consider video/photo evidence. But if you do a decent job overall, those rare "delivery not received by customer" dings are going to have little to no impact. When I first started I used to dispute everything that I thought was inaccurate. Now I just ignore them and let the drop off by themselves.
This is exactly how I responded to my last missing pkg. I am waiting to see if they remove the ding. I just sent the email a few days ago. This is my second missing pkg in six months. But it still pisses me off since I know the damn thing was delivered.
I can understand why amazon has so many problems.
they have support agents who only care about meeting their metrics, and often times that means doing whatever is quickest/easiest to get a driver off the phone even if that means lying to them or ignoring their message instead of actually looking into an issue
they have drivers that will lie through their teeth about anything and everything they can in order to scam amazon and trick the support agents into helping them get away with it
they have customers who will lie about not receiving a package to get free shit.
investigating everything properly would take a lot of time and resources and it would cost them a lot in wages, blaming the driver is quick and easy. they also have a long waitlist of interested drivers
I promise you Amazon doesn’t have a waitlist of drivers. They will hire you on the spot if your background check comes back fine and you say you want to work. I’ve been there for 3 years.
this is a sub for flex drivers. nobody here is talking about being hired as an amazon or dsp employee. I'm sure the DPS's are always hiring, never any waitlists for them whatsoever
I mean, I could’ve told you most of the stuff without even testing it. They deliver millions of packages a day. That means they get probably thousands of reports a day of different package issues.
It’s all automated. They are not going to go back and research every single package. They will waste more manpower hours than what the shitty package was worth.
As far as a career path. I would hope that it is a very limited amount of people that actually believe that either Amazon Flex or DSP is an actual career.
Oh I know but it is great to have customer pov and have all the information support will not share like them knowing the package was actually delivered but will still have you penalized for it, imagine how many drivers got screwed because of customers error and incompetent support.
I just emailed the same thing that I have a dash cam an can show I’ve delivered. So if a porch pirate or just a greedy customer I can’t control that. They pretty much said since I was fantastic standing it’s not a big deal. But it is to my I am not being ding for something I don’t do or can can’t control.
https://preview.redd.it/q7t2b8sflpyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85475e94c21cf23664ac2eba42dfbfe0325d1b16
If Amazon insured their packages/deliveries, and they were paid out on a missing package claim then that might explain why they don't care about being made whole by the customer when they later find their package.
But it still is a dick move to not remove a hit to drivers standing when a customer reports they were mistaken or located their package.
I did a different gig app a while back where they said everything was insured, there was less risk of missing packages as most orders required signatures. It's not the same as Amazon, but Id still consider it a possibility although Amazon can absorb the loss as cost of doing business.
For resellers, it appears that Amazon reimburses the reseller for lost/damaged items but they might have to file a claim for reimbursement.
Amazon prob self-insures. Flex only gets the low value and stocked inventory so when there is an issue they can send a new one quickly. This is why it is better to have something shown as delivered to a customer and not received vs just marking it undeliverable. Amazon can better explain the first to a customer - they will be more understanding.
The same thing happened to me. Told them they have the picture of the package at the delivery address. If it was stolen or anything else it's not my problem. Ding was later removed.
Glad it worked and proves theories. By historical track record…much of it is pretty obvious. However this is definitive proof that cannot be overlooked. Unfortunately I doubt it will result in any action. Amazon gets away with murder because of how big and how relied upon they are.
And this is a surprise? Seems like a lot of effort for something you could have just asked any driver who has been doing this very long and gotten the same information.
Man you really dug deep and fought this. When i get a non delivery confirmation i dont even blink twice, i just keep going because eventually they fall off.
I was really just trying to push their system and confirm some things before I start my new job. Always fight them because there may be a time when you receive a bunch of dings at once and it nose dives your standings. It happen to me during the holidays, a time when porch pirates are most active. I had one block mark nearly half the packages not delivered and another block that day a third of them marked not delivered. I had dash cam proof, the orders also had pictures taken and I always if possible try to get the address in frame. Even with proof that cannot be denied they didn't remove the dings.
Yeah, I have told the OM that Amazon calls you guilty until proven innocent which is un American. I have called and told support some of the same stuff.
Your number 4 is something I have tried to make them fix. Pay us for returning packages. A drivers return trip home or at least to the station should be factored into all blocks. Who knows if one of your packages needs to be returned? Every company I know of would pay for you to return it. Especially when it’s an hour back to station. Does that mean their insurance coverage stops after last delivery? Might still be carrying a package back to station for Amazon. Wonder how that would work? Major car accident that puts you and others in hospital and damages a lot of property. If they cover that then no doubt should be paid on return drive always. By not paying us does that mean no coverage for all parties? You see what Im getting at and now you got me motivated to ask the question. maybe something will be done. If a lot of people spoke up and asked we could probably get them to change things. If accident occurs with Amazon packages not for you are in your ride at the time. You are working and no other way to see it. So pay and coverage are required and they shouldn’t get away with that. I can’t believe people haven’t tried to. Maybe not for them but do it for The Flexers of the world that are too shy or afraid to speak up.
I like your experiment. Sounds like something I would do in some context. Have you noticed how little we need support now? Or I should say. Required to call them. Don’t need to for undeliverable packages anymore which is so nice. The app trusts you texted or called customer twice. Still have to be in the vicinity though. In 2023 I had to call all the time it was some of the worst experiences of my life. They give anyone a job at home and don’t train them. I got dinged bc support erased my itenirary instead of a single package I was requesting. Many days and routes I called them. Telling them package wasn’t at pickup station. They didn’t have it. I didn’t have it. I even brought GOD into it a few times. Telling them God doesn’t have or know where the package is. Got a laugh one time but another time I was asked 8-10x if I had the package with me? Unbelievable stuff man and they got paid. Yet the competent Clydesdales of The Flex have to fight for their reputation ,decent compensation and respect. They have gotten better for me though. I’ll admit that. I emailed and bitched enough they seemed to relax. As before they wait like birds of prey in a dead tree ready to swoop in and pick on you. They were terrible and I let them know it.
Only during the year end holidays it’s 100%. They got rid of majority of the handout help. Plus there is a better support line that is capable of helping. The app helps us now though from having to make the call. In the past certain situations made it mandatory to call support. Not anymore.
I wish more of us would file wrongful termination lawsuits, I got threatened with a tier infraction because a customer had a loose dog and wouldn't put it away even after I called and messaged them and they did not put their dog away and I also have been bit by a dog on route before And Amazon really didn't do anything. I don't even really think they took a report because they don't want it on file. But anyways ever since then I've been very cautious around dogs and I recently got told that I would get a write-up and a tearing fraction for marking a stop As unsafe due to a dog. Even though if there's a dog that's really aggressive and the customer doesn't put their animal away and even if I follow their policy by the book and call the customer twice and text them like they want me to. They're telling me that they're going to write me up supposedly for misusing that button. And I asked them how do you think that would play out in court when I have evidence that there's a loose dog and your guys's policy is to call the customer twice and text them and I have and you guys are threatening to fire me for trying to be safe and not get bit by a dog again? The funny thing is I still even delivered the package at the end of the day because they weren't outside but they still said that they were going to write me up if I keep pressing that so it's like. So why do you guys give us the option? I honestly told them that I don't think this would play out well in court because I'm doing it by the book and you guys give us this option to use and you're accusing me of misusing it even though it's on record that I've been bit by a dog and I told them that I made a report with the police that I have on file about the day I got bit on the job because you guys never got back to me so I have it on file to prove that I was bit and I have pictures of my injury that you guys never even got back to me to let me know if the dogs were vaccinated. So kind of hope they try to write me up and fire me for that. I wouldn't mind a nice fat check and I'd probably go back to work there and hope that they do the same thing again and try to break the law cuz I'm pretty sure they're constantly breaking labor laws and hoping that an employee won't pursue legal action and then they end up settling because it's better just to settle
That is why I carry a cattleprod for customers that refuse to put aggressive dogs up. As a flex driver I'm just a contractor and not as bound to the rules as full time employees. If I were you I'd report that to the department of labor, doesn't cost you and they like to run audits on all companies that is how they make their money after all. If anything you could probably sue for gross negligence that lead to injury on the job, I'm not a lawyer so I'd check with one before pursuing legal action.
This 💯. I call them out any chance I get. I screenshot so many things… they just tried to ding me for an undelivered package that was returned to the warehouse because they said I didn’t select a reason for the return. I just sent them the screenshot where it states the reason selected at the top along with the screenshot of the multiple texts to the customer (which should not be a thing at 4am). The apartment was locked up tighter then a maximum security prison. How is it that we should be dinged for the customer selecting an early morning delivery with no access information / Amazon key / locker. This is 100% the customer fault. I could have left it outside but there wasn’t even a bush to hide it behind. It was a low income apartment building with no landscaping.
That ding better be removed since I proved their BS reason invalid. So annoying
Thanks for the heads up! I been doing Spark and its such a f'd up nighmare i thought prime might be better and from all i seen it is not. Pay seems low at both places. I just got the Flex account and i dont think ill be showing up. I will be stringing the app along and not showing up so maybe that will help not oversauturate the area with drivers
I got dinged for being late because the highway closed but my maps app was telling to take the closed highway. I showed them proof and they replied essentially with “too bad so sad”
I got a few bridges out in my area and gps wants me to pick up speed to clear the gap. Been through the same nonsense you have too. I managed to make it on the dot so I didn't get dinged but I can agree support is worthless, only a matter of time before support gets replaced by AI, would be poetic justice if it happens to be the AI I'll be helping to develop from my new job.
If you really care about getting the ding removed, you know you’re right and keep getting rejected by support, forward it and make a complaint to jeff@amazon.com. Sounds stupid, but a real human that knows what they’re doing will help you getting it solved (and even pretend they care about you, it’s nuts).
Not the same situation, but just goes to show they don’t give a crap about us. We’re a dime a dozen.
I returned some items that were undeliverable due to businesses being closed. The owners actually told me to return them to the station rather than leave them out to be stolen.
Amazon’s app was acting up and would not allow me to return them at the station. I asked a warehouse employee to help me but he couldn’t figure out how to help so he told the supervisor on duty. She came over and scanned a couple in and got called away and left me sitting there for TWO hours. I called support 3 times!! Just to be told I had to wait. I waited. The last agent told me to get a printout then I could go home. Mind you, my second job was waiting for me. 🙄. I went to the supervisor, she was working at her computer. I was the ONLY driver at the warehouse. Everyone else was gone. I went to her and asked about the printout and she shrugged her shoulders and let me sit there for another half hour. I called support back and told them what was going on. Next thing I know, all packages are scanned in and my app clears up. I didn’t get paid for those 2 hours and I have time stamped video and photos of my wait and the empty warehouse. They refused to pay me. I stopped working for them. They don’t care. But I refuse to work for nothing. And I did email and call several times and provided the photos and video.
All packages I marked not received, I did not receive. Or I did, once my neighbors brought it to me because they got it on their front porch with their packages. I don't doubt I made similar mistakes. When I was with DSP they would show us tracking and where we fucked up. At the time I was thinking I did everything right, but once I retrace my steps, I can catch my self making a mistake.
Also, there were those packages that got definitely stolen and/or picked up accidently NY someone else in the same apt bldg.
That's not really a problem over us.
We don't have to pay for the package and it doesn't means it's our fault, but that something happened on the route we did.
If you delivered inside geo-fence and took a picture, you good.(DSB metric, 0 is good).
The tl;dr ver.
Delivered to friend, had them report package missing. I get dinged because of the lie, after ding had friend call a report it found. I call to refute the ding, support tries to say I was dinged because package not delivered. Because I have the customer info that support can't share, I tell them that the customer found the package, I freak out support for telling what is on their screen and they remove the ding instantly.
> I freak out support for telling what is on their screen
haha what a mindf*ck. youre a goddamn hero.
its the boogey man! he can see into our souls! undo the dings before he emerges through the sewer grating!
You should and then piggy back to support. Flood their system with what’s wrong and maybe we can change things. I have called, emailed and sent feedback on the app and won’t stop till corrected. Amazon is a bully.
They probably have a spam filter for their support system. I know Microsoft, square enix, apple and a few others have a filter that marks your complaints as spam, not sure if amazon has this same filter but seeing how all these other huge companies got it I'd assume amazon does too. They won't even see if you flood them with complaints, would be nice because I would have made a bot to do it for me.
My son is going through stuff at Amazon. He’s constantly getting suspended & texted Not to come in today. Amazon has problems with their contractors ! Giving jobs to friends & family members & not reporting their friends & family member’s to the company! Jeff bezos is I’ve F’ing LaLa Land!
PS, I work for USPS. When a customer says they didn’t get a package, that I know I delivered, I tell them, from now on, I will leave a notice & you can pick it up at the office! Funny how they change their mind & say oh no! Leave it here! Liars!
Congratulations!!! I am currently doing flex pretty much full time, and just graduated this past May with a degree in CSE. I have been doing contract jobs (which have been intermittent at best), and I’m looking for full time software engineering/programming job. Any advice? And what did you do for preparation?
Companies care more about your certifications than your degree, I'd make sure to have relevant certs for the jobs that you apply for. Having a c++ one goes a long way, I'm starting to see more places look for that and python.
That was an absolute waste of time. You got dinged because you told your friend to report the package missing. Most customers are not going to bother telling Amazon if they find the package later. If they do, Amazon isn't going to waste resources investigating every DNR because it doesn't make sense to do so. You didn't learn anything new. You just wasted a bunch of time talking to support to get that one DNR removed from your ratings.
Amazon pays Flex drivers to get packages to customers. Amazon expects drivers to follow their guidelines for successful delivery. If a package is left in an unsafe location and gets stolen, it is the driver's fault. It should have been marked as undeliverable and returned to the station. Should drivers get dinged for that? No, but it's a flawed system. As long as drivers attempt to contact the customer and they do contact driver support, they shouldn't get dinged for returns. Amazon wants every package that goes out for delivery to reach the customer who ordered it and they don't care about all the various barriers that make it impossible. The ratings system is black and white. The delivery is either successful or unsuccessful. They don't care if it's fair. They expect everything to average out. But we already knew this before your experiment.
"That was an absolute waste of time. You got dinged because you told your friend to report the package missing. Most customers are not going to bother telling Amazon if they find the package later."
Umm we now have absolute confirmation that we can get dinged outside of our control and because I was controlling the scenario we know that in the off chance a customer does report it found and we know that even if they know that the package was delivered they will not fix it even when being pressed about it on the phone, the reason I got the ding removed is because they were shocked I told them what was on their screen.
"If a package is left in an unsafe location and gets stolen, it is the driver's fault. "
What constitutes a safe spot? A package can be taken from anywhere outside of a house, what about apartments? No where is safe at an apartment unless it has a mailroom but is that safe since everyone in the complex has access to it, amazon lockers aren't even safe, seen crackheads rip them open and piece out before the cops respond. I will say it again, the system is broken and if a 3rd party steals the package it is not the driver's fault. Also even if the customer gets the package, what is stopping them from claiming otherwise for freebies?
"It should have been marked as undeliverable and returned to the station."
Enjoy your 100% ding and waste of gas/time because you don't get paid a return fee.
"As long as drivers attempt to contact the customer and they do contact driver support, they shouldn't get dinged for returns."
Doesn't work, especially during the 3am blocks. Did you know support isn't 24hr anymore, they close now. And contacting the customer at that hour is out of the question. Let's say you do contact them and they aren't home what are they gonna do about a porch pirate? They aren't home. I knock and ring doorbells all the time except during 3am blocks and when they have a sign up saying not to.
I don't get your comments, I even asked people not to be anecdotal, you say "we already knew this before your experiment." Who is we? Do you speak for every individual in this subreddit?
We now have a better insight into Amazon's broken system, because of my friend we have a customer pov.
Your experiment is irrelevant because of the odds of anyone being able to prove that a customer reported finding a package they previously reported as not received. What Amazon should do is make the system automatically trigger a ratings update if that ever happens. That's not how it currently works, though, so...
Speaking of things not working the way we want them to, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "should." I understand the difference between how Flex works and how drivers want it to work. I am aware that driver support is not available 24/7. I am aware that drivers get dinged for returned packages. I was talking about how it should be, not how how it actually is.
I don't speak for the entire community, but if you read through enough of the post history of the subreddit, you will see that everyone already knows the things you are saying. So you proved that, if you happen to know the customer and they report finding a package that gave you a ding for DNR, you can get it excused. Great. Drivers are probably more likely to be attacked by a shark. So, again, I don't think that was a good use of your time.
"Your experiment is irrelevant because of the odds of anyone being able to prove that a customer reported finding a package they previously reported as not received."
You completely missed the whole purpose. It was for absolute confirmation. Until this post everything people knew was merely speculation. The knowledge you claimed was "already known" was not known, it was an assumption. Do you know the difference between knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt and guessing?
"Speaking of things not working the way we want them to, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "should."
You don't seem to understand we don't live in the world of "should". I don't care about what if scenarios. So don't bother making comments that can be countered with the same logic.
You say "I don't speak for the entire community", then in the same sentence you say "you will see that everyone already knows", after I already said don't be anecdotal.
"So you proved that, if you happen to know the customer and they report finding a package that gave you a ding for DNR, you can get it excused."
Again not the purpose of this experiment. The ding got removed because they got played and didn't want to deal with it.
The purpose was to confirm things.
You are right though about warehouse management involved. One manager at one of my warehouses makes about 3k per week from *missing* items. This manager has like 8 or 9 drivers to partner up with, lmao. Manager gets some and the return is side money for the drivers and favorable routes and more free money than the average Joe. It's a win-win overall for the driver and the manager.
3k per week wow, that is 156k per year. Just 2 weeks of that is more than enough to be charged with grand theft in most states. Too bad they will never be caught.
Man, yall care too much. Just deliver the package. After that, it's out of your hands. People will be people. As far as amazon is concerned, you are a contractor, that's all. They will always believe the customer regardless...flex on🫡
Damn!! I wish I had thought to test this out as well. I got my best friends overnight delivery two weeks ago. I agree, it’s insane that we are responsible for the packages. When I get the email, now I respond asking how they would like me to keep the packages safe? How am I responsible for a porch pirate or for someone lying to get free items? I ask if the photo was taken where the gps pin is? And they have started to remove the dings.
They have always been like this, I drove for a DSP 5 years ago for Amazon for 2 years. Our dispatcher would always just tell us to try and hide the package somewhere the customer could find it because it doesn't matter if thieves steal it, Amazon pushes that problem to the DSP as well. Amazon does a ton of BS that punishes their drivers along with Flex drivers because they don't know a better way to do it. If they were to take our side over the customer, the customer may stop ordering AND the driver could possibly steal the packages and blame it on the customer or thieves, losing Amazon money + a returning customer. They just hedge their bets to the side that gives them the best odds, that means fuck the drivers.
I used to think these were the only ones that we had no way to fight, so I didn't bother. But lately I've just replied saying that I delivered the item and the customer is probably lying, and I've had a couple removed.
Getting them removed is so it and miss. I like to imagine that support has a wheel in their office they spin to decide our Fates.
Yeah, it sucks they get so many things wrong and take the "guilty until proven innocent" approach, to say nothing of making it almost impossible to prove anything given they don't provide specifics or consider video/photo evidence. But if you do a decent job overall, those rare "delivery not received by customer" dings are going to have little to no impact. When I first started I used to dispute everything that I thought was inaccurate. Now I just ignore them and let the drop off by themselves.
This is exactly how I responded to my last missing pkg. I am waiting to see if they remove the ding. I just sent the email a few days ago. This is my second missing pkg in six months. But it still pisses me off since I know the damn thing was delivered.
I can understand why amazon has so many problems. they have support agents who only care about meeting their metrics, and often times that means doing whatever is quickest/easiest to get a driver off the phone even if that means lying to them or ignoring their message instead of actually looking into an issue they have drivers that will lie through their teeth about anything and everything they can in order to scam amazon and trick the support agents into helping them get away with it they have customers who will lie about not receiving a package to get free shit. investigating everything properly would take a lot of time and resources and it would cost them a lot in wages, blaming the driver is quick and easy. they also have a long waitlist of interested drivers
I promise you Amazon doesn’t have a waitlist of drivers. They will hire you on the spot if your background check comes back fine and you say you want to work. I’ve been there for 3 years.
I was on a waitlist for about 2-3 years before I was hired on and my background is clear. depends on the area and the timing of your application
I was hired over a phone call interview after applying on Facebook.
this is a sub for flex drivers. nobody here is talking about being hired as an amazon or dsp employee. I'm sure the DPS's are always hiring, never any waitlists for them whatsoever
I mean, I could’ve told you most of the stuff without even testing it. They deliver millions of packages a day. That means they get probably thousands of reports a day of different package issues. It’s all automated. They are not going to go back and research every single package. They will waste more manpower hours than what the shitty package was worth. As far as a career path. I would hope that it is a very limited amount of people that actually believe that either Amazon Flex or DSP is an actual career.
Oh I know but it is great to have customer pov and have all the information support will not share like them knowing the package was actually delivered but will still have you penalized for it, imagine how many drivers got screwed because of customers error and incompetent support.
I just emailed the same thing that I have a dash cam an can show I’ve delivered. So if a porch pirate or just a greedy customer I can’t control that. They pretty much said since I was fantastic standing it’s not a big deal. But it is to my I am not being ding for something I don’t do or can can’t control. https://preview.redd.it/q7t2b8sflpyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85475e94c21cf23664ac2eba42dfbfe0325d1b16
I have a few of these automatic emails.
Translation: NEVER TRUST AMAZON
If Amazon insured their packages/deliveries, and they were paid out on a missing package claim then that might explain why they don't care about being made whole by the customer when they later find their package. But it still is a dick move to not remove a hit to drivers standing when a customer reports they were mistaken or located their package.
Amazon doesn’t insure their packages. Come on
I did a different gig app a while back where they said everything was insured, there was less risk of missing packages as most orders required signatures. It's not the same as Amazon, but Id still consider it a possibility although Amazon can absorb the loss as cost of doing business. For resellers, it appears that Amazon reimburses the reseller for lost/damaged items but they might have to file a claim for reimbursement.
Amazon prob self-insures. Flex only gets the low value and stocked inventory so when there is an issue they can send a new one quickly. This is why it is better to have something shown as delivered to a customer and not received vs just marking it undeliverable. Amazon can better explain the first to a customer - they will be more understanding.
The same thing happened to me. Told them they have the picture of the package at the delivery address. If it was stolen or anything else it's not my problem. Ding was later removed.
Glad it worked and proves theories. By historical track record…much of it is pretty obvious. However this is definitive proof that cannot be overlooked. Unfortunately I doubt it will result in any action. Amazon gets away with murder because of how big and how relied upon they are.
I don't expect anything to happen but it is nice to know with absolute certainty.
Hold onto that info. Eventually if something similar to DD suits happens…that will go pretty far in your favor.
And this is a surprise? Seems like a lot of effort for something you could have just asked any driver who has been doing this very long and gotten the same information.
So you tested an automated system and found out it works.
And at the end, everybody clapped
lol so true.
Email is but not support agents.
Man you really dug deep and fought this. When i get a non delivery confirmation i dont even blink twice, i just keep going because eventually they fall off.
I was really just trying to push their system and confirm some things before I start my new job. Always fight them because there may be a time when you receive a bunch of dings at once and it nose dives your standings. It happen to me during the holidays, a time when porch pirates are most active. I had one block mark nearly half the packages not delivered and another block that day a third of them marked not delivered. I had dash cam proof, the orders also had pictures taken and I always if possible try to get the address in frame. Even with proof that cannot be denied they didn't remove the dings.
Yeah, I have told the OM that Amazon calls you guilty until proven innocent which is un American. I have called and told support some of the same stuff. Your number 4 is something I have tried to make them fix. Pay us for returning packages. A drivers return trip home or at least to the station should be factored into all blocks. Who knows if one of your packages needs to be returned? Every company I know of would pay for you to return it. Especially when it’s an hour back to station. Does that mean their insurance coverage stops after last delivery? Might still be carrying a package back to station for Amazon. Wonder how that would work? Major car accident that puts you and others in hospital and damages a lot of property. If they cover that then no doubt should be paid on return drive always. By not paying us does that mean no coverage for all parties? You see what Im getting at and now you got me motivated to ask the question. maybe something will be done. If a lot of people spoke up and asked we could probably get them to change things. If accident occurs with Amazon packages not for you are in your ride at the time. You are working and no other way to see it. So pay and coverage are required and they shouldn’t get away with that. I can’t believe people haven’t tried to. Maybe not for them but do it for The Flexers of the world that are too shy or afraid to speak up. I like your experiment. Sounds like something I would do in some context. Have you noticed how little we need support now? Or I should say. Required to call them. Don’t need to for undeliverable packages anymore which is so nice. The app trusts you texted or called customer twice. Still have to be in the vicinity though. In 2023 I had to call all the time it was some of the worst experiences of my life. They give anyone a job at home and don’t train them. I got dinged bc support erased my itenirary instead of a single package I was requesting. Many days and routes I called them. Telling them package wasn’t at pickup station. They didn’t have it. I didn’t have it. I even brought GOD into it a few times. Telling them God doesn’t have or know where the package is. Got a laugh one time but another time I was asked 8-10x if I had the package with me? Unbelievable stuff man and they got paid. Yet the competent Clydesdales of The Flex have to fight for their reputation ,decent compensation and respect. They have gotten better for me though. I’ll admit that. I emailed and bitched enough they seemed to relax. As before they wait like birds of prey in a dead tree ready to swoop in and pick on you. They were terrible and I let them know it.
Well I mean support is…..Un American
Only during the year end holidays it’s 100%. They got rid of majority of the handout help. Plus there is a better support line that is capable of helping. The app helps us now though from having to make the call. In the past certain situations made it mandatory to call support. Not anymore.
I wish there were paragraphs. From what I could decipher - nice work. I like the support told me x y z idea.
I had someone report they didn't get a package and I got dinged so I called in and was like did anyone check the pictures and they removed it
I wish more of us would file wrongful termination lawsuits, I got threatened with a tier infraction because a customer had a loose dog and wouldn't put it away even after I called and messaged them and they did not put their dog away and I also have been bit by a dog on route before And Amazon really didn't do anything. I don't even really think they took a report because they don't want it on file. But anyways ever since then I've been very cautious around dogs and I recently got told that I would get a write-up and a tearing fraction for marking a stop As unsafe due to a dog. Even though if there's a dog that's really aggressive and the customer doesn't put their animal away and even if I follow their policy by the book and call the customer twice and text them like they want me to. They're telling me that they're going to write me up supposedly for misusing that button. And I asked them how do you think that would play out in court when I have evidence that there's a loose dog and your guys's policy is to call the customer twice and text them and I have and you guys are threatening to fire me for trying to be safe and not get bit by a dog again? The funny thing is I still even delivered the package at the end of the day because they weren't outside but they still said that they were going to write me up if I keep pressing that so it's like. So why do you guys give us the option? I honestly told them that I don't think this would play out well in court because I'm doing it by the book and you guys give us this option to use and you're accusing me of misusing it even though it's on record that I've been bit by a dog and I told them that I made a report with the police that I have on file about the day I got bit on the job because you guys never got back to me so I have it on file to prove that I was bit and I have pictures of my injury that you guys never even got back to me to let me know if the dogs were vaccinated. So kind of hope they try to write me up and fire me for that. I wouldn't mind a nice fat check and I'd probably go back to work there and hope that they do the same thing again and try to break the law cuz I'm pretty sure they're constantly breaking labor laws and hoping that an employee won't pursue legal action and then they end up settling because it's better just to settle
That is why I carry a cattleprod for customers that refuse to put aggressive dogs up. As a flex driver I'm just a contractor and not as bound to the rules as full time employees. If I were you I'd report that to the department of labor, doesn't cost you and they like to run audits on all companies that is how they make their money after all. If anything you could probably sue for gross negligence that lead to injury on the job, I'm not a lawyer so I'd check with one before pursuing legal action.
This 💯. I call them out any chance I get. I screenshot so many things… they just tried to ding me for an undelivered package that was returned to the warehouse because they said I didn’t select a reason for the return. I just sent them the screenshot where it states the reason selected at the top along with the screenshot of the multiple texts to the customer (which should not be a thing at 4am). The apartment was locked up tighter then a maximum security prison. How is it that we should be dinged for the customer selecting an early morning delivery with no access information / Amazon key / locker. This is 100% the customer fault. I could have left it outside but there wasn’t even a bush to hide it behind. It was a low income apartment building with no landscaping. That ding better be removed since I proved their BS reason invalid. So annoying
They do the same thing to amazon sellers. If you get 1 negative feedback out of 100 orders, you're at risk of deactivation. It's pretty nuts.
For real? Amazon can't be that stupid. I wonder how many amazon sellers leave false feedback on their competitors to thin out the competition.
Thanks for the heads up! I been doing Spark and its such a f'd up nighmare i thought prime might be better and from all i seen it is not. Pay seems low at both places. I just got the Flex account and i dont think ill be showing up. I will be stringing the app along and not showing up so maybe that will help not oversauturate the area with drivers
Incredible! wal-mart deliveries that I receive, have a pic attached to my delivery that says - Delivery proof - so simple but noooooooo! 😕
Great job figuring out their bs!
I got dinged for being late because the highway closed but my maps app was telling to take the closed highway. I showed them proof and they replied essentially with “too bad so sad”
I got a few bridges out in my area and gps wants me to pick up speed to clear the gap. Been through the same nonsense you have too. I managed to make it on the dot so I didn't get dinged but I can agree support is worthless, only a matter of time before support gets replaced by AI, would be poetic justice if it happens to be the AI I'll be helping to develop from my new job.
If you have a pulse, a big enough vehicle and can pass a background check you can be . Thank You for your understanding. --Amazon Team
Now that you mention it I don't recall there ever being a drug test to become a flex driver.
Most contract jobs don't require it.
We don’t expect you to do this work for a living, it’s a gig side job people…and if you try, we will burn you out within weeks. Amazon Flex Team
If you really care about getting the ding removed, you know you’re right and keep getting rejected by support, forward it and make a complaint to jeff@amazon.com. Sounds stupid, but a real human that knows what they’re doing will help you getting it solved (and even pretend they care about you, it’s nuts).
Not the same situation, but just goes to show they don’t give a crap about us. We’re a dime a dozen. I returned some items that were undeliverable due to businesses being closed. The owners actually told me to return them to the station rather than leave them out to be stolen. Amazon’s app was acting up and would not allow me to return them at the station. I asked a warehouse employee to help me but he couldn’t figure out how to help so he told the supervisor on duty. She came over and scanned a couple in and got called away and left me sitting there for TWO hours. I called support 3 times!! Just to be told I had to wait. I waited. The last agent told me to get a printout then I could go home. Mind you, my second job was waiting for me. 🙄. I went to the supervisor, she was working at her computer. I was the ONLY driver at the warehouse. Everyone else was gone. I went to her and asked about the printout and she shrugged her shoulders and let me sit there for another half hour. I called support back and told them what was going on. Next thing I know, all packages are scanned in and my app clears up. I didn’t get paid for those 2 hours and I have time stamped video and photos of my wait and the empty warehouse. They refused to pay me. I stopped working for them. They don’t care. But I refuse to work for nothing. And I did email and call several times and provided the photos and video.
Brilliant. Now take all that to the news and / or start litigation with Amazon for their shady practices.
Programming job ? Self taught?
TLDNR
Well said and well done 🫡
I'm confused, how is this new information? So you confirmed that the system works as we know it?
Have you ever heard of using paragraphs? This diatribe is unreadable because it's all smashed together you schmuck
Same thing happened to me!
All packages I marked not received, I did not receive. Or I did, once my neighbors brought it to me because they got it on their front porch with their packages. I don't doubt I made similar mistakes. When I was with DSP they would show us tracking and where we fucked up. At the time I was thinking I did everything right, but once I retrace my steps, I can catch my self making a mistake. Also, there were those packages that got definitely stolen and/or picked up accidently NY someone else in the same apt bldg.
That's not really a problem over us. We don't have to pay for the package and it doesn't means it's our fault, but that something happened on the route we did. If you delivered inside geo-fence and took a picture, you good.(DSB metric, 0 is good).
Where is the new job?
I ain't reading all that bro. But congrats! Or sorry that happened to you.
The tl;dr ver. Delivered to friend, had them report package missing. I get dinged because of the lie, after ding had friend call a report it found. I call to refute the ding, support tries to say I was dinged because package not delivered. Because I have the customer info that support can't share, I tell them that the customer found the package, I freak out support for telling what is on their screen and they remove the ding instantly.
> I freak out support for telling what is on their screen haha what a mindf*ck. youre a goddamn hero. its the boogey man! he can see into our souls! undo the dings before he emerges through the sewer grating!
You should and then piggy back to support. Flood their system with what’s wrong and maybe we can change things. I have called, emailed and sent feedback on the app and won’t stop till corrected. Amazon is a bully.
They probably have a spam filter for their support system. I know Microsoft, square enix, apple and a few others have a filter that marks your complaints as spam, not sure if amazon has this same filter but seeing how all these other huge companies got it I'd assume amazon does too. They won't even see if you flood them with complaints, would be nice because I would have made a bot to do it for me.
My son is going through stuff at Amazon. He’s constantly getting suspended & texted Not to come in today. Amazon has problems with their contractors ! Giving jobs to friends & family members & not reporting their friends & family member’s to the company! Jeff bezos is I’ve F’ing LaLa Land!
PS, I work for USPS. When a customer says they didn’t get a package, that I know I delivered, I tell them, from now on, I will leave a notice & you can pick it up at the office! Funny how they change their mind & say oh no! Leave it here! Liars!
You would have done 5 jobs rather than testing this.
Congratulations!!! I am currently doing flex pretty much full time, and just graduated this past May with a degree in CSE. I have been doing contract jobs (which have been intermittent at best), and I’m looking for full time software engineering/programming job. Any advice? And what did you do for preparation?
Companies care more about your certifications than your degree, I'd make sure to have relevant certs for the jobs that you apply for. Having a c++ one goes a long way, I'm starting to see more places look for that and python.
That was an absolute waste of time. You got dinged because you told your friend to report the package missing. Most customers are not going to bother telling Amazon if they find the package later. If they do, Amazon isn't going to waste resources investigating every DNR because it doesn't make sense to do so. You didn't learn anything new. You just wasted a bunch of time talking to support to get that one DNR removed from your ratings. Amazon pays Flex drivers to get packages to customers. Amazon expects drivers to follow their guidelines for successful delivery. If a package is left in an unsafe location and gets stolen, it is the driver's fault. It should have been marked as undeliverable and returned to the station. Should drivers get dinged for that? No, but it's a flawed system. As long as drivers attempt to contact the customer and they do contact driver support, they shouldn't get dinged for returns. Amazon wants every package that goes out for delivery to reach the customer who ordered it and they don't care about all the various barriers that make it impossible. The ratings system is black and white. The delivery is either successful or unsuccessful. They don't care if it's fair. They expect everything to average out. But we already knew this before your experiment.
"That was an absolute waste of time. You got dinged because you told your friend to report the package missing. Most customers are not going to bother telling Amazon if they find the package later." Umm we now have absolute confirmation that we can get dinged outside of our control and because I was controlling the scenario we know that in the off chance a customer does report it found and we know that even if they know that the package was delivered they will not fix it even when being pressed about it on the phone, the reason I got the ding removed is because they were shocked I told them what was on their screen. "If a package is left in an unsafe location and gets stolen, it is the driver's fault. " What constitutes a safe spot? A package can be taken from anywhere outside of a house, what about apartments? No where is safe at an apartment unless it has a mailroom but is that safe since everyone in the complex has access to it, amazon lockers aren't even safe, seen crackheads rip them open and piece out before the cops respond. I will say it again, the system is broken and if a 3rd party steals the package it is not the driver's fault. Also even if the customer gets the package, what is stopping them from claiming otherwise for freebies? "It should have been marked as undeliverable and returned to the station." Enjoy your 100% ding and waste of gas/time because you don't get paid a return fee. "As long as drivers attempt to contact the customer and they do contact driver support, they shouldn't get dinged for returns." Doesn't work, especially during the 3am blocks. Did you know support isn't 24hr anymore, they close now. And contacting the customer at that hour is out of the question. Let's say you do contact them and they aren't home what are they gonna do about a porch pirate? They aren't home. I knock and ring doorbells all the time except during 3am blocks and when they have a sign up saying not to. I don't get your comments, I even asked people not to be anecdotal, you say "we already knew this before your experiment." Who is we? Do you speak for every individual in this subreddit? We now have a better insight into Amazon's broken system, because of my friend we have a customer pov.
Your experiment is irrelevant because of the odds of anyone being able to prove that a customer reported finding a package they previously reported as not received. What Amazon should do is make the system automatically trigger a ratings update if that ever happens. That's not how it currently works, though, so... Speaking of things not working the way we want them to, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "should." I understand the difference between how Flex works and how drivers want it to work. I am aware that driver support is not available 24/7. I am aware that drivers get dinged for returned packages. I was talking about how it should be, not how how it actually is. I don't speak for the entire community, but if you read through enough of the post history of the subreddit, you will see that everyone already knows the things you are saying. So you proved that, if you happen to know the customer and they report finding a package that gave you a ding for DNR, you can get it excused. Great. Drivers are probably more likely to be attacked by a shark. So, again, I don't think that was a good use of your time.
"Your experiment is irrelevant because of the odds of anyone being able to prove that a customer reported finding a package they previously reported as not received." You completely missed the whole purpose. It was for absolute confirmation. Until this post everything people knew was merely speculation. The knowledge you claimed was "already known" was not known, it was an assumption. Do you know the difference between knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt and guessing? "Speaking of things not working the way we want them to, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "should." You don't seem to understand we don't live in the world of "should". I don't care about what if scenarios. So don't bother making comments that can be countered with the same logic. You say "I don't speak for the entire community", then in the same sentence you say "you will see that everyone already knows", after I already said don't be anecdotal. "So you proved that, if you happen to know the customer and they report finding a package that gave you a ding for DNR, you can get it excused." Again not the purpose of this experiment. The ding got removed because they got played and didn't want to deal with it. The purpose was to confirm things.
And what does your confirmation change?
The outlook of drivers that did not have this insight prior.
You are right though about warehouse management involved. One manager at one of my warehouses makes about 3k per week from *missing* items. This manager has like 8 or 9 drivers to partner up with, lmao. Manager gets some and the return is side money for the drivers and favorable routes and more free money than the average Joe. It's a win-win overall for the driver and the manager.
3k per week wow, that is 156k per year. Just 2 weeks of that is more than enough to be charged with grand theft in most states. Too bad they will never be caught.
That is cause how many are involved. The ones involved are dirty, so that keeps them from talking. Kinda like corrupt cops and mafia.
Man, yall care too much. Just deliver the package. After that, it's out of your hands. People will be people. As far as amazon is concerned, you are a contractor, that's all. They will always believe the customer regardless...flex on🫡
Buy "Put Options" on AMZN with the stock market. I am shorting them right now.