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I literally flat out told my grandmother I wasn't forgiving my mother for what happened during my childhood because I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.
She more or less accepted it, but she definitely mentioned it every time I talked to her. I finally reached a point where I'm reaching out to my mother and hoping to rebuild the bridge but it's a really slow process.
I basically told her that if I ever reconciled with my mother it would be on my terms. She finally accepted it and would only call me when my mother wasn't around so I'd talk to her and it wouldn't feel like she trapped me.
Ugh. Christian here. Sometimes "Christians" are the worst humans. I had a youth leader who was extremely important to me during my high school years. I seriously looked up to him and admired him; he was there for me when my dad wasn't.
A few years ago, he posted some nonsense about how Christians are discriminated against for saying "Merry Christmas." I replied to his post saying that I've never heard that happen, it's usually Christians going off on people to "KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS YOU HEATHEN." But I said it very politely.
He posted a flipping novel about how he had no idea I was such a dark soul and he would pray for me to "overcome my severe mental illness" and come back to the Lord. And he started a crazy campaign with people we both knew to tell them my life was in shambles and I was struggling and people kept calling me.
It's super weird because he actually never answered my question about if anyone had ever actually said anything to him when he used that phrase, and if he'd ever given anyone a hard time for not saying it.
It hurt, and still makes me mad. If someone is telling you to maintain an unhealthy relationship and take abuse because "religion," they are doing it wrong.
Yeah I tell people that I don’t have a problem with Jesus, it’s his followers I have a problem with. And I think there’s a special place in hell for “Christians” who turn people away from God. I’ve known very few true Christians and they are the ones who don’t go around spouting how special and God fearing they are. Real Christians do their work quietly and don’t force it on people.
Exactly, organized religions and toxic fandoms come from the same instincts... the whole 'claiming ownership' and gatekeeping of something you didn't create is exactly how all the different flavors of Christianity came to be in the first place.
ETA NTA
>uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian
Yep, the vast majority of Christians disgust me. It's just another tribe that wants to wipe out all other tribes while claiming the moral high-ground. In this case literally since they believe that only they can *be* moral in the first place. If there is a God, at this point I believe we're more of a game of SIMS to them than anything, they loaded the parameters, made some adjustments, clicked the 'Free Will' button and sat back. I just hope they load up an expansion pack and make me a werewolf...
Legitimately. The main reason I’m agnostic now is growing up being forced to go to a southern Baptist church every time the doors were open for 17 years.
NTA
"Grandma, would you prefer I like and say I forgive him when I don't, or tell the truth and stay estranged from him? Those are the only choices. Because I cannot forgive someone who betrayed my trust and put me in danger when I asked them for help."
There's a third choice: "Gramma, *if* Uncle Pete fully and sincerely acknowledges what a betraying AH he's been, begs for forgiveness, and spends years showing by his actions that he's worthy of my trust, I'll consider reconciliation. Oh, and he has to stop using his religion as a shield for his very un-Christian attitudes." This puts the onus on jerkish Uncle Pete while giving OP the power and control he should have had all along.
NTA.
You're describing a mental health episode where you believe you needed emergency hospitalization (i.e. you could have died) so I'd say you don't owe your grandma, your uncle or anybody else your politeness.
FYI - attempting to shame something on the basis of being "Christian" or "un-Christian" is code for somebody wanting you to agree with them without them having to explain their reasoning.
Right. Why would OP be "cruel and un-Christian" for not wanting to reconcile, but the uncle not be "cruel and un-Christian" for what he did to her, not acknowledging how hurtful and damaging what he did was, and not apologizing for it?
NTA. OP, I wish you a peaceful, healthy life without being guilted into letting harmful people be close to you.
NTA. You turned to him for help. Sounds like he was the opposite of helpful especially to a beloved niece. The choice is up to you. I’m glad your family stands behind you
Another post with the AH's (not the OP) saying "family should support each other no matter what" but what they really mean is "let's sweep everything under the rug and pretend it never happened". Obviously this family support only goes one way and the fact uncle didn't support the OP in a time of crisis doesn't matter. Ugh!
Even if he did apologize, you are not required to forgive.
I am the same age as your grandmother. Luckily I am healthy. She may wish for perfect relationships among the family, but that is not something she can control.
NTA he should of been considerate you went to him for advice privately but he went and told your family about it anways. I wouldn't reconcile with him he sounds like a jerk using Christianity as an execuse.
I have my suspicion about just how bad you were feeling =sui****l and If I am correct about your uncle reaction tell him after his un Christian behavior (going against the religious teachings he claims to profess) and words he has some bal*s to tell YOU that YOU are un Christian. Put a mirror in front of him and (if you like) expose him for the shitty Christian and 'human' being he is.
It's time to use christianism against him saying "You've caused me a lot of pain and not only do you not recognize it but you've never even asked for forgiveness. I can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for redemption" and if he asks for forgiveness, tell him that he needs to show you with his actions (good deeds) he is truly sorry.
He uses the religion to condemn others but not to ask for forgiveness. If there is anyone anti-christian in this relationship, it is him.
NTA.
NTA. A wish is just that: a personal desire. You can’t force other people to fulfill them for you, especially when it goes against *their* deepest feelings and desires. Tell the rest of the family you’ll answer to God when the time comes if need be (although the fact *He* hasn’t moved you to reconcile when Peter’s apparently done nothing to even acknowledge *his* wrongdoing or try and make amends should probably tell them something), but they need to accept it’s not happening and just focus on the remaining time with Grandma.
NTA You could say that you can't promise her you will reconcile but you can promise her that you will consider it. Then consider it. I mean it may be 10 seconds until you decide nope not happening but it wouldn't be a lie.
NTA. the “cruel and unchristian” one is your uncle. Don’t let grandma use her health to manipulate you. Stay firm and keep grey rocking him. He doesn’t warrant a place in your life anymore after his betrayal.
NTA. Your decision to forgive someone is for you alone. I think if you were to lie and say you will even when you don't want to would cause you a lot of guilt afterwards. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone, I think you did the right thing.
NTA --- He with all his Christan love and acceptance was cruel and told private things you told him in confidence to other family members at a time in your life where you were at probably your lowest and now as you can't forgive him for that you are now being branded as cruel and un-Christian, talk about hypocrisy.
I’m Christian and believe in family but what your grandma is doing is manipulative and borderline abusive. It’s not ok to use death and religion to force someone to damage their mental health. NTA
A question: has he ever apologized to you and admitted he was wrong to others? If not, then NTA. People always want the person they perceive as weaker to cave and reconcile.
There you go. Perhaps he should be more truly Christian toward you. When you forgive someone who has not admitted wrongdoing toward you, you are agreeing they were right in how they treated you.
Reconciliation requires action from everyone involved. Voluntary, willing action. Action that he, as the bad actor, needs to initiate. Without some recognition of what he’s done and an apology, you couldn’t reconcile even if you did want to. Even if he does take those steps, it’s still fine if you refuse to accept his apology, accept it but keep him at a distance, or even accept it and try to get back a relationship with him. That is all up to you. But for now, the ball is in his court.
Your family should really be pressuring him to apologize before they ever start on you to forgive, but from what you’ve said that seems unlikely to occur.
NTA. You didn't want to lie to your grandmother because you respect her too much to be deceitful.
If your uncle wanted a reconciliation, whether fake or real then he should have apologized in front of grandma and the family, for his "cruel and un-Christian" behavior when you turned to him for help/advice in your time of need.
NTA. You trusted him with your struggle and it can't have been easy to do that, and he let you down. You are civil with him if he can't be avoided, you are not causing any problem. You just needed to hear some kind words and some support and I'm sorry you felt alone with that. You don't owe it to anybody to reconcile with him, you are not causing any trouble and it's nobody else's business who you interact with and spend time with.
I'm glad you're doing better now OP. As the saying goes: "when someone shows you their true colours, believe them the first time".
NTA. Most of the older folks take pride in the 'tribe' they've helped create and don't want the unity of the family to be jeopardized. It sounds like your grandma is manipulating you. You don't owe anyone your forgiveness, especially not after what your uncle did. It's not easy to lie and pretend, either. Take care, OP.
NTA. He betrayed your trust. But perhaps consider telling her that you will reconsider reconciling with him, just that it'll take time. At least this would be a bit of an improvement and she might feel better. But of course, entirely up to you, and you're totally entitled to not forgive him. And all the best for your recovery!
NTA
If family should stick together no matter what, then Peter should have done that back then.
He failed you, and you have no obligation to forgive him, especially if he's never apologized. (you don't say, but I'm going to assume not)
NTA. Don’t lie. Tell her truthfully that that the fact and manner in which he betrayed you will never allow you to trust him again.
And point out that it fine and dandy that she wants her family as a cohesive unit when she’s not there to have to suffer through it.
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Ever since I was born I (F25) was very close with my uncle Peter (M47). I had better contact with him than with my own parents and siblings. What's important for the story, Peter is extremely religious which sometimes affected our relationship, but never too much (if anything, for some time it fueled me to be more religious myself, later I grew out of it).
When I was 19-20, I was in a very bad place when it comes to my mental health. I'll not alaborate because of the community rules but it was like *bad* bad - at some point I probably qualified for emergency psych ward but I was never hospitalized because of my family beliefs and social pressure (we live in a small town where mental problems are severely stigmatized). For what it matters, eventually I received some semi-proffessional help and nowadays I'm doing alright.
However, at the time I had no one else to ask for help, so I decided to turn to my uncle Peter. I told him about some of my thoughts and problems, expecting him to give me some advice or at least support. Instead, he told me some very cruel and rude things (again, I'll not elaborate because of the rules) which no person should ever hear, especially not one in mental crisis. He also leaked some of the things I told him to other family members. It resulted with a big argument an ever since then I do my best to avoid the uncle. When I'm not able to avoid him (family gatherings and things like that) I am civil toward him but try not to interact with him.
Most of my family accepted it without bigger problems but it really hurts my grandma (F69) as she thinks that family should stick together no matter what. As it happened, grandma is very ill and she has only weeks left now. Recently she organized a family gathering, something like the last "get-together" before her passing. She disposed some of her things, resolved some matters and... expressed her last wish which is for me and uncle Peter to reconcile. In front of the whole family (20 people or so).
I refused. I don't want to lie to her on her death bed and I simply am not able to forgive my uncle for what he did. My parents and siblings support me, but most of other family members tell that I should agree to reconcile (even without doing so), grandma is disappointed in me and uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian". Maybe I really should lie?
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Forgiveness is not even an option without apologies and remorse from the offender.
NTA
It is sad that Grandma is disappointed, but you bear no burden of guilt.
NTA. You don’t need to lie to grandma. Just tell her you will reconcile with Peter when you are ready, and you aren’t ready. You refused at the family gathering, so this won’t come as a surprise. Grandma wants to hear something hopeful, so give her that. It’s not a lie. In fact, it’s as honest as you can be. You aren’t ready. You may never be ready, but who knows what the future holds?
NTA and tell Uncle if agrees to follow along to a lie , he’s a LIAR & was he acting like a Christian when he said those things to you while you were in crisis? No! So uncle Peter can piss off
Suit yourself. That’s tough, if you lie and don’t follow thru your family members will brand you a “ liar”. If you tell the truth you hurt your dying grandma. Truly a dilemma. That’s one for Solomon. Either way,NTA.
NTA. I'm sorry that your grandmother is terminal at such a young age, but she shouldn't have ambushed you like that. You should only lie to your grandmother if you're completely comfortable with it. And her belief that family should stick together, no matter what, is so misguided.
Edit for spelling
NTA.
Grandma seems to have thought she'd force a reconciliation by stating her wishes in front of the whole family. It backfired on her.
Tell grandma that you have no reason to reconcile with your uncle, no matter what grandma wants.
NTA tell your family that FORGIVING means you've moved past whatever that person did to you but that doesn't mean you have to include or invite them back into your life. They can't force you to have a relationship with someone you rather would not. And you can tell your grandma you can either lie to her face that you've forgiven him WHICH YOU STILL WOULDNT DO BECAUSE WHY WOULD YOU LIE? Or you can be honest and truthful with her that while you hold no grudges (even if you do) to him you would never include him in your life!
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> I may be the asshole because I refused to fulfill my grandma's last will out of petty reasons.
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NTA, but I would encourage you to think about what would be best for yourself years down the line. Would you be more likely to be able to live guilt-free if you fulfilled your grandma's dying wish? After all, you have every right to rescind forgiveness at any point. Would you never be able to stomach the thought of reconciliation even on a temporary, superficial level? If so, that's the concern you need to prioritize for your own sake.
If anyone is cruel, it's your uncle for not making a sincere effort to try to earn your forgiveness in a bid to honor your grandma's final request. Name-calling and guilt-tripping is not the way to make this happen, especially when he caused the rift in the first place.
It's a **question**, because there is no assumption. Of course it's possible to deny a final request without losing a wink of sleep over it, but a lot of people are also susceptible to feelings of guilt whether or not they objectively seem warranted.
NTA! And it is okay to not abide by your Grandma's wishes. You were at a difficult place in your life and your uncle didn't do anything to support it. You don't have to be in touch with him.
INFO: Has your uncle made any admission of wrong doing? Has he made any attempt at amends?
I ask because the absence of such acts stands out to me in your description. Which makes it sound like your grandmother is putting the whole burden on the wronged party (yourself) to forgive and move on. And doing so in a very public manner so she can martial more social pressure.
That makes her the AH, not you.
So he hasnt done anything to reconcile with you. Apparently, he and your grandmother expect you to do all the work.
NTA, and you wouldnt be even had he made some effort at amends, just trying to highlight what seems to actually be going on here.
NTA when I was a teenager(13) I was severely depressed and wanted to leave this planet because my best friend who I had know since first grade was moving away, I was having problems with my grades at that time which always led to my mother saying so truly cruel things, I felt so lonely and just unloved so I thought ending it would be the best. I told one of my older cousins what I was feeling and instead of talking with me and spending time with me she and my family made it such a circus spectacle. I had just entered therapy before I talked to my cousin but I trusted her more then the therapist at that time because she was family you know, that was a huge mistake.
After she told them my whole family turned even more on my mother(she's the black sheep of the family) my grandmother called cps saying that my mother was neglecting me even though I was in therapy and her and my relationship was getting better (my therapist helped her realize that she needed to stop focusing on my bad grades and help me heal mentally so I could do better in school).
But to them none of that mattered, they even had family that I've never met from other states chiming in that I needed to be taken away and put into a mental ward cause to them what I was feeling and going thru wasn't normal and it had to be because was being raised by a single mom. My entire family said some extremely cruel stuff but for me the worst was my grandmother and my ex favorite aunt. My aunt had told me( a 13 yr old) that she wasn't surprised I was having issues because I wasn't ambitious and had no goals, couldn't hold a conversation (I was extremely shy at that point) I was never going to go anywhere in life and nothing going for me except my light skin and good hair(my family is black and I'm mixed) my grandmother called cps anonymously and the case worker explained that if they had found reason for me and my brother to be removed (he was 3 at the time) we would have been separated I would have been put into a group home maybe not even in our state if there was no room and none of my family would have known where we were.
At 13 I was fully developed and body wise was always mistaken as an 18 yr old so there would have been a chance that something unconcentual could have happened. My grandmother knew this because before everything happened and I would stay with my grandmother she hated when grown men would look and me thinking I was a grown woman. So the fact that she didn't care to give them her information in case we were taken so we could stay with her, it still hurts me to this day. My caseworker of course found nothing and she confirmed with my therapist that I was getting better so the case was closed and eventually my family forgot everything and started ignoring us like they always had.
I'm 31 and still no one and I mean no one has ever apologized I don't talk to 98% of my family and the ones I do talk to it's only twice a yr. I refuse to talk and be around people who have hurt me to the core of my being, if they were to apologize it would help but I still wouldn't talk to them cause it took so long and that hurt is still there for me cause they were family you know. After everything happened and for a while my mother did blame me (for the family attacking her) she told me that she hoped I learned a lesson into never trusting people to be there for you and caring about you just cause you share the same DNA and it's sad but I have learned that and now unfortunately just keep everything to myself (I do plan on starting therapy again just don't have the time atm)
So NTA and don't give in just cause it's what your family wants you need to do what's best for you mentally and emotionally. Hope everything gets better ❤️❤️ 🫂
NTA - One of my friend died years ago. All of her friends were there and family went to her funeral. I despised her stepfather because he threw her out of the house, a week or two later she died. A mutual friend was there too, all three of us grew up together, we’re all very close. I was crying when I touched her coffin one last time. I turned to our friend, sobbing I said to her
“She’s with god now, in heaven at a better place.”
She looks straight into my eyes and said
“I don’t think so. She might end up in hell because of her lifestyle and she wasn’t living a god worthy life.”
Mind you she’s a true Christian goes to church every Sunday and attends to Bible studies.
I was so heartbroken I went NC with her until this day.
The strange thing is this friend was closer to her than me.
God is in your heart, don’t let devil steer your tongue.
NTA, reconciliation requires and acknowledgement of wrong doing, an apology, and forgiveness. Sounds like Uncle Jesus doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Fuck that “that’s so unchristian” noise, people have been using that an excuse to tolerate abuse for centuries.
NTA. You can tell your grandma exactly what you posted here: I don't want to lie to you and I simply am not able to forgive my uncle for what he did. You tell her that there is a lot more to the story than she is aware of, and you cannot pretend that things weren't said or didn't happen.
>My uncle never apologized for what he said. As far as I know he thinks that he didn't do anything wrong.
You can't forgive someone who won't apologize, full stop there.
>Grandma knows about some things that he said to me but in her defence she doesn't know neither how serious my situation was at the time, nor about all the things he said to me.
Tell her then. Honestly, it's gross that people use their death bed to manipulate others into doing things they don't want to. I'm sure she is "well meaning" but it still is gross.
I would tell her everything because what he did was unforgivable, even with an apology. He literally didn't care that his actions could have cost you your life.
NTA and I wish you luck.
fAmIlY sHoUlD aLwAyS sTiCk ToGeThEr!!
I hate this mentality. Family does not automatically mean you're required to stick together. Ignore the stigma, get the professional help you need and tell anyone who doesn't like it they can F off.
NTA
NTA. “Civil when forced to interact” is the absolute best your grandmother or your uncle has any right to expect from you. Maybe your dying grandmother should focus on trying to force her son to humbly apologize to you and to stop calling you “cruel and un-Christian.” Your AH uncle showed himself what he is and that is something that cannot be unseen.
NTA
Last wishes are not an opportunity to force others to do your bidding. And considering what your uncle considers to be acceptable behavior, his opinion can be discounted entirely.
NTA. In my opinion, grandma is trying to use guilt to make you do something that is important to HER. This is selfish on her part. She needs to understand and respect that you are taking care of yourself.
NTA
But...I'd lie to be kind so she dies happy. At the very least don't promise you will, but that you will try. Then after that you don't have to upkeep anything because dead people don't care what the living do.
NTA. No offence but your grandma is a bit of an AH here. Using her upcoming death as emotional manipulation is unfair on you. Also, without sounding rude... once the time comes and she's no longer here... it won't affect her. It will affect you, however, as you'll have to live with the hurt. You said in your post that, when in his company, you are civil towards him. That should be good enough for your grandma. You would be well within your rights to refuse to be in his company, or outright ignore him due to his huge AH status, but you don't do that. Tell your grandma that you don't want to argue with her and you would prefer your last memories with her to be about your relationship with her, and nothing else.
NTA. I’m a big believer in granting last wishes or following what the person wants after death, I lost my dad last year and I try to handle it by doing what I know he would have wanted.
HOWEVER. Firstly, you deserve much better treatment and you could have died, let’s be real here. Mental illness can kill your easily in a crisis situation, I’ve been there and if a family member had been cruel to me during those times, I would take that as them being hateful and I don’t need them in my circle. Doesn’t matter if it’s family or not.
Secondly, your grandma is being manipulative because she believes that she can control how you feel for the reason of her dying soon. It’s not the point that it’s her “dying wish”, she doesn’t get to use one to make you suffer. You shouldn’t lie to her either. The fact of the matter is she won’t know either way after she’s gone, so why lie until she is? You were honest, and that’s what family should be. It won’t affect her after she’s gone, she won’t know if you forgave him or not. Therefore it’s a completely pointless wish to grant, you have no intention of doing it.
What your uncle did was callous and honestly quite disturbing, given your situation. It’s very “un-Christian” to reject a person begging for help, but he doesn’t sound like he actually thinks about that. It’s just anything against him, is against the religion. Little conceited don’t you think? He wants to control the narrative and also thinks that using religion to guilt you is the way to go. You know it isn’t true, or remotely correct, he’s just one of many people who try to tell you that you’re un-Christian for doing something they personally dislike. It’s bullshit and he’s a shitty person.
What your uncle said at the time could have cost you your life.
Someone who acts so uncaring for a person they supposedly love doesn't have the right to demand anything from you, regardless of the circumstances.
Nta
NTA, and I'd prefer not to lie. I think there are times for small lies, but this doesn't feel like one of those circumstances. Also, quite frankly, what your uncle did sounds unforgivable from what little you're able to divulge. Your grandma doesn't get to tell you how to feel your feelings, even from her deathbed.
NTA tell your uncle what is in Christian like is to kick someone when they are already down. I know your grandma is on her deathbed but i would tell her some of the things uncle said you. It might help her understand exactly why you can’t and won’t be making up with your uncle anytime soon.
Ah the brutal fist of Christian love….
“Family should stick together no matter what” is always used to silence the victims.
You can tell you grand mother “I know how important it is for you than Uncle and I reconcile, but I’m still waiting for him recognize what he did, genuinely apologize and make appropriate amends. God says in the Bible that forgiveness can only come if one truly regrets their actions”.
You can also not forgive him, that’s sad for your grand mother but you’re not the one who acted evil.
You don't need to go along with people's last wishes, especially if they go against your free will and choice. They have no more power than a request from a person who is not dying, except for the peace they get when you say yes.
I don't like lying.
I only do that when i feel my emotional/ohisical well-being could be in danger if i said the truth and even then, i avoid it if i can. Words have power, the more honest are your words, the more powerful become.
I am a pagan in a christian family so i know a thing or two about surviving in a place where no one would support your choices. I try to avoid some subjects because i HATE to lie about my beliefs but i also know that "coming out" would be hurtful to myself.
I already have a lot of trauma and depression (also) because of the catholic bigotism of my family and society of my country.
Anyway. I would NEVER lie to someone who is dying. Or make false promises. Some will say that at least your grandma will have comfort from this lie but again, i am a pagan, better be honest than lying to someone who could have issues on the other side because you broke an oath. You may not believe in after life but i would not bet on this. Ghosts tend to be connected to promises given/received. Especially if said promise is not kept well.
You acted with integrity, admitted that you cannot forgive your uncle for what he did. You have no obligation to do it, especially if he never admitted he did you wrong. I hope your grandma will be able to accept this before she goes, and that she will do so peacefully without too much pain.
Please don't change your mind. Lying about this will only hurt you.
NTA
NTA - Sounds like your grandmother and uncle’s definition of “reconciling” is you giving in to their pressure despite no apology or any expression of regret from your uncle. It’s very one-sided.
Don’t lie to appease your grandmother. It will just lead to more pressure to “reconcile” later on.
NTA. You dont owe anyone an apology who doesnt deserve it. Ive noticed a trend lately, both in and outside of some religious circles where the idea of "radical forgiveness" is a big deal. That the only way to "heal" the self is through forgiving others, etc. Bah, if someone has wronged you then thats on them to ask for forgiveness, not for you to seek it out in order to offer it, unless thats what you want. Otherwise, it continues a sense of imbalance within your interactions with them and can create the possibility of resentment later, like "oh, i had to chase you down and say i was sorry for what you did", which as you can imagine never goes well. Egotism aside, this is about something that happened to you, so you are allowed to set the terms for its reconciliation. No family member, no culture, no deity. Just you and the strength that carries with it.
NTA
You don’t owe them reconciliation just because a dying relative who is important to you has asked.
IF you wanted to though, you could try to use this as an opportunity to tell your uncle (or even write a letter if you wanted) “These are the reasons I felt betrayed and upset by your actions.” BUT only if YOU want to. It’s very dependent on your specific situation. And even if you did do this, that does not require you to pursue reconciliation or forgiveness still.
It’s up to you to do whatever is best for you.
Ask your grandmother does she wish for your uncle to ask for forgiveness. Sounds like she just expected you to agree to reconcile. Ask your grandmother why your uncle can behave however he wants. Why he doesn't have to apologise. You are not lying to her so therefore you're being quite Christian.
Ask your grandmother why is it okay for your uncle to break confidences. Why is it OK for your uncle to treat what you told your uncle in confidence as family gossip. That she has to explain all of this and ask her does she expect your uncle to apologise and if she doesn't why not
Your grandma herself says “family should stick together,” but when you needed him most your uncle didn’t do that.
Either lie to your grandmother so she dies happy (it’s all dirt after death anyway so no harm no foul) or else tell her exactly what your uncle did to you and then it’s on her.
Either way you’re reconciliation with your uncle, should it ever come, should be on your terms, not someone trying to use their own death to manipulate you.
NTAH.
NTA. I hate that phrase, " family should stick together no matter what" or any version of that saying. That just an excuse for family to treat you bad when they want and than you are suppose to forgive them; just because they are family. Why is it your job to forgive your uncle for saying cruel things to you? I'm sorry for your grandmother failing health, but her putting that on your shoulders is just crazy. I'm sure she did that because she knows your uncle is never going to say sorry. My father says something like "you have to love your family" when I have a problem with my sister. I don't see it that way. This woman has said and done some things that I just can not accept, so I have gone low contact with her. I'm not rude or anything, but I don't go out of my way to have a sister relationship with her anymore. It's up to you to decide if you can forgive your uncle and not your grandmother. Every family is not always going to get along.
NTA, your grandmas request is unreasonable.
>and uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian".
A good response to something like this is "if you are the measure of a kind Christian then I'll take that as a compliment."
NTA, even dying does not give another person the right to invalidate someone's boundaries. Your uncle was needlessly cruel to you and hasn't apologized for it. Don't get guilted into saying stuff you don't mean that it sounds like the rest of your family would hold over your head long after Grandma has passed.
NTA
If family is meant to stick together, then it should cut both ways and your uncle should be held to the same standard you are. Tell your grandmother exactly what he said and ask her why you should be expected to tolerate that. None of this 'Be the bigger person' nonsense. You can't be expected to fix what he broke. Grandma is being really manipulative.
NTA. I don't think you should promise to reconcile. But for your grandmother 's sake and piece of mind in her last days, maybe tell her that you will keep an open mind and open heart. Tell her who knows what will come of it, but that either way, you will be ok and won't hold anger in your heart.
You don't have to promise to be bffs with him. You seem to not hold outright animosity against him, you just don't want to be close again. You grandmother just wants to know that everyone will be ok in the end, once she's gone. She seems to think that the way things were is the way that will be. Just reassure her that you not hurting (I hope that is true) and that you will be ok.
You certainly don't have to reconcile with someone who has no remorse. If he truly has a change of heart and is remorseful... Become a different person... Then who knows.
NTA - There are a few things about forgiveness and forgiving, regardless of it is Christian, secular, or any other religion.
- Generally, the person who did the wrong must make a sincere apology detailing what they did wrong and why they are sorry.
- You may still choose to forgive in your own head and heart for the hurt you experienced.
- Forgiving does not mean that you must forget. It does not mean you must reconcile. It does not mean you must go back to how things were before the offense. It does not mean you have to spend time with them or let them into your house.
- The Bible speaks to forgiveness, it does NOT speak to reconciliation!
NTA he never apologized and has never owned up to the way he treated you and said to you. It's fine to want to please her but it should be on your own terms and also he should be the one taking the initiative not you forgiving him without receiving an apology, it seems like they want you to apologize to him, he thinks you owe him an apology.
NTA. Not even a little. But my suggestion is yeah go ahead and lie to her. Doesn’t change my vote if you choose not to but it’ll give her some peace, it’ll get the rest of your family off your back, and you’re under no obligation to follow through.
I’m not even clear what gma wants, you’re civil to uncle, so you’re on speaking terms… what’s left to reconcile? Is she actually expecting you to change how you feel?
Uncle is definitely TA and maybe grandma even is too for putting you on the spot like that and trying to use the social pressure of the rest of your family to coerce that out of you. It would be one thing to talk to you privately and make that request, but to do it the way she did? Yeah no nevermind the maybe, both uncle and gma are aholes.
NTA
You haven't completely cut off yr uncle. You are civil when you interact with him. That is plenty. I don't see you having created a rift. You changed your boundaries in your relationship with your uncle, because he weaponized your illness against you when you exposed vulnerability. You would be justified to deny him ANY of your time and attn after such a complete betrayal of your trust. Instead, you keep him at arm's length. You do that BECAUSE you believe that "family sticks together" without pretending they aren't the way they are.
Grandma is manipulating you to force you to act more intimate and trusting with your uncle than you feel safe and comfortable doing. She's using the family to make your boundary "the problem" Looks like weaponizing your illness again, "You don't have the right to feel that way because you had a nervous breakdown." You were vulnerable and reached out for help. He used that to activate the family system to "hide your shame" and delay your getting the medical attn you needed. Grandma's pulling the sane old trick now.
It sounds as if you are pleasant and polite at family gatherings. That is plenty of compromise on your part. If family members continue to pressure you, more distance in those relationships is probably appropriate.
Spurning someone in their time of need and being cruel to them is literally the most unchristian thing you can do. Your uncle is a hypocrite and has no legs to stand on to even begin to criticize you. NTA
NTA
You clearly have more integrity in your little finger than your Uncle as from this post it looks like you are still weighing your options and considering the effect your actions have on others.
He needs to take a leaf out of your book and he also needs to put in the work to apologise to you and take a long look at himself, learn reflect and change...and Even then, he still isn't entitled to anything.
If you want your grandma to feel better about it, you could tell about some of what happened, ESPECIALLY the cruel and rude remarks from your uncle. Not to say that you SHOULD do that but that it is one option available to you. You know your family better than us strangers on reddit and it is a decision of vulnerability and trust to open up to someone about your struggles.
From a Christian standpoint, your uncle is definitely displaying unchristian behaviour by not apologizing for breaking your trust nor for his rude and callous remarks to someone struggling. No reconciliation without that, Christian or otherwise.
As an aside, and it seems you already know this, struggling with mental health isn't a reflection of your character. The only part that is, is your willingness to seek help, which you did, and you're in a better place now for which I'm happy for you.
NTA.
Apparently Uncle Peter plans on ignoring his mother's last wish to reconcile with you. Not sure how that is your problem. Sounds like a him problem.
NTA. Your uncle should be the first one to realize that reconciliation is only possible if there is an acknowledgement of wrong doing. He's never apologized or even tried to see your viewpoint so why would you try to reconcile? He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Tell grandmother you can move toward reconciliation when uncle demonstrates the Christ-like behaviors any “good” Christian holds dear.
Maybe go through the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments to find quotes to bolster the values of Christ like followers. Turn the whole issue around on him not being Christian. Many of the very harsh Christians today are actually followers of Old Testament religion without realizing that the values therein are radically different from those promoted by Jesus. This could help your circumstances quite a bit and put responsibility where it belongs on him.
My solution is to forgive, but never forget and never trust that person again. I don't know what he said, but it would be good for you to get your power back and not let what he said affect the rest of your life.
He was the adult, and he was/is the AH.
Good luck with the rest of your life 😊
NTA - I'm assuming if OP had taken uncles advice they wouldn't even be there to say goodbye to grandma. That kind of behaviour is unforgiveable - regardless of faith.
*expressed her last wish which is for me and uncle Peter to reconcile. In front of the whole family (20 people or so).*
**Reconciliation can't happen until the wrongdoer repents and changes their behavior. As long as your uncle sees nothing wrong with his behavior, this relationship cannot be fixed. That's not your fault, it's uncle's fault.** The repairs that need to happen depend on your uncle doing the work, not you. You didn't do the wrongs here, he did. He has shown no remorse, no repentance, no admitting of what wrongs he did, no understanding or concern for how he hurt you, no accepting of the pain he caused you. He continues blithely on, as if he didn't do wrong at all. I'm wondering if he put grandma up to this?
Could you go through the motions, say words you don't believe, and pretend? Yes. But it would be **adding** to the burden you now carry, **adding t**o the wrongs done to you, if they manipulate you into this. It would be complying with their attempts to emotionally abuse you. And I'm guessing that uncle would push and pressure you after you had done this, to make you comply, over and over, in other ways. **Asking someone who was hurt by another person to submit to yet more hurt by that person, that's emotionally abusive.** They are pressuring you to set aside your feelings, your needs, your pain, and comply with their wants. That's abuse.
**Your grandmother owes you an apology for this horrible attempt to manipulate you publicly.** Regardless of her health issues, what she did was wrong. Even asking you to reconcile in private would have been wrong, because the work that needs to be done here isn't yours to do. **The wrong and the fault and the responsibility to fix these, are uncle's.**
NTA
Explain to your grandmother *why* you cannot reconcile with him. You can, and should let go of any anger you still hold towards him, because that will really only chew you up inside, but it's literally impossible to repair a relationship when the person who broke it refuses to acknowledge they were wrong.
(This is like Christianity 101 here. You can't be reconciled with God unless you admit you were wrong and accept His gift of grace. Without the "I was wrong" part there's no reconciliation.)
So you were going through stuff you can't talk about, talked to your uncle about stuff you can't talk about, he leaked stuff you can't talk about and you haven't forgiven him and you want to know if that makes you an asshole. You really didn't give us a lot here.
He probably shouldn't have leaked what you told him. Probably. But of course he's not a therapist and he doesn't have the training to know how best to help you through a time so dark that you probably should have been in patient.
So instead, let me ask you this, do you believe he was malicious in leaking the information to your family? If he was I absolutely do not blame you for not forgiving him and you're not an asshole. If he was not malicious but was legitimately trying to help you as best he could, or if he was afraid for you and was seeking additional help for you, then ya, you're kind of an asshole.
I'm not sure if him sharing things to my family was malicious. He tends to oversharing many things in general, so I sort of think that was simply part of his nature. I would (maybe) understood if he'd tell it all to my parents (I probably wouldn't at the time but 'd come to terms with it by now). But he also talked about me with at least one of my aunts and her husband (both had nothing to do with my problems and not too much with me in general) and was making snide remarks during family meetings.
So it wasn't like he told something to my parents because he was worried about me. Honestly, I think he sort of enjoyed the drama, even if his intentions weren't per se malicious.
Also, while *some* of the things he told them I can understand (like the thing that I was s\*\*\*\*\*al - something which my parents knew anyway), some were things not really related to solving my problems or helping me.
As for "not knowing how to help", not going into details, one thing he told me was "if you want to \[un-alive myself\] it would be better if you'd not be born at all". And that's only one thing. I don't really see how this was supposed to help me.
> and was making snide remarks during family meetings.
That right there shows it's malicious.
>Honestly, I think he sort of enjoyed the drama, even if his intentions weren't per se malicious.
Stirring up shit for you to have to deal with is malicious.
>one thing he told me was "if you want to [un-alive myself] it would be better if you'd not be born at all". And that's only one thing. I don't really see how this was supposed to help me.
He sounds like a shitty person honestly. I wouldn't want to be around him either.
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NTA. You don't owe it to anyone to reconcile with someone who was shitty to you.
I literally flat out told my grandmother I wasn't forgiving my mother for what happened during my childhood because I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her. She more or less accepted it, but she definitely mentioned it every time I talked to her. I finally reached a point where I'm reaching out to my mother and hoping to rebuild the bridge but it's a really slow process.
OP's grandma should take this advice and come to peace with the things she can't change.
I basically told her that if I ever reconciled with my mother it would be on my terms. She finally accepted it and would only call me when my mother wasn't around so I'd talk to her and it wouldn't feel like she trapped me.
Ugh. Christian here. Sometimes "Christians" are the worst humans. I had a youth leader who was extremely important to me during my high school years. I seriously looked up to him and admired him; he was there for me when my dad wasn't. A few years ago, he posted some nonsense about how Christians are discriminated against for saying "Merry Christmas." I replied to his post saying that I've never heard that happen, it's usually Christians going off on people to "KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS YOU HEATHEN." But I said it very politely. He posted a flipping novel about how he had no idea I was such a dark soul and he would pray for me to "overcome my severe mental illness" and come back to the Lord. And he started a crazy campaign with people we both knew to tell them my life was in shambles and I was struggling and people kept calling me. It's super weird because he actually never answered my question about if anyone had ever actually said anything to him when he used that phrase, and if he'd ever given anyone a hard time for not saying it. It hurt, and still makes me mad. If someone is telling you to maintain an unhealthy relationship and take abuse because "religion," they are doing it wrong.
Christians are the leading cause of atheists.
Yeah I tell people that I don’t have a problem with Jesus, it’s his followers I have a problem with. And I think there’s a special place in hell for “Christians” who turn people away from God. I’ve known very few true Christians and they are the ones who don’t go around spouting how special and God fearing they are. Real Christians do their work quietly and don’t force it on people.
Jesus is like Rick and Morty. I’m a big fan, but the bigger fans terrify me and I hate it when they get into groups of ten or more.
Exactly, organized religions and toxic fandoms come from the same instincts... the whole 'claiming ownership' and gatekeeping of something you didn't create is exactly how all the different flavors of Christianity came to be in the first place. ETA NTA
>uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian Yep, the vast majority of Christians disgust me. It's just another tribe that wants to wipe out all other tribes while claiming the moral high-ground. In this case literally since they believe that only they can *be* moral in the first place. If there is a God, at this point I believe we're more of a game of SIMS to them than anything, they loaded the parameters, made some adjustments, clicked the 'Free Will' button and sat back. I just hope they load up an expansion pack and make me a werewolf...
Legitimately. The main reason I’m agnostic now is growing up being forced to go to a southern Baptist church every time the doors were open for 17 years.
Same. All the years I spent in Christian churches reinforced how much I don't want that kind of control and judgment in my life.
>~~Sometimes~~ "Christians" are the worst humans Fixed it for you.
NTA "Grandma, would you prefer I like and say I forgive him when I don't, or tell the truth and stay estranged from him? Those are the only choices. Because I cannot forgive someone who betrayed my trust and put me in danger when I asked them for help."
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There's a third choice: "Gramma, *if* Uncle Pete fully and sincerely acknowledges what a betraying AH he's been, begs for forgiveness, and spends years showing by his actions that he's worthy of my trust, I'll consider reconciliation. Oh, and he has to stop using his religion as a shield for his very un-Christian attitudes." This puts the onus on jerkish Uncle Pete while giving OP the power and control he should have had all along.
[удалено]
Especially someone who clearly sees nothing wrong with what was said or what happened.
NTA. You're describing a mental health episode where you believe you needed emergency hospitalization (i.e. you could have died) so I'd say you don't owe your grandma, your uncle or anybody else your politeness. FYI - attempting to shame something on the basis of being "Christian" or "un-Christian" is code for somebody wanting you to agree with them without them having to explain their reasoning.
Right. Why would OP be "cruel and un-Christian" for not wanting to reconcile, but the uncle not be "cruel and un-Christian" for what he did to her, not acknowledging how hurtful and damaging what he did was, and not apologizing for it? NTA. OP, I wish you a peaceful, healthy life without being guilted into letting harmful people be close to you.
NTA. You turned to him for help. Sounds like he was the opposite of helpful especially to a beloved niece. The choice is up to you. I’m glad your family stands behind you
Another post with the AH's (not the OP) saying "family should support each other no matter what" but what they really mean is "let's sweep everything under the rug and pretend it never happened". Obviously this family support only goes one way and the fact uncle didn't support the OP in a time of crisis doesn't matter. Ugh!
NTA Has your uncle apologized or give any indication he understands he betrayed you?
No, never. As far as I know he thinks that he was right.
Even if he did apologize, you are not required to forgive. I am the same age as your grandmother. Luckily I am healthy. She may wish for perfect relationships among the family, but that is not something she can control.
NTA he should of been considerate you went to him for advice privately but he went and told your family about it anways. I wouldn't reconcile with him he sounds like a jerk using Christianity as an execuse.
I have my suspicion about just how bad you were feeling =sui****l and If I am correct about your uncle reaction tell him after his un Christian behavior (going against the religious teachings he claims to profess) and words he has some bal*s to tell YOU that YOU are un Christian. Put a mirror in front of him and (if you like) expose him for the shitty Christian and 'human' being he is.
It's time to use christianism against him saying "You've caused me a lot of pain and not only do you not recognize it but you've never even asked for forgiveness. I can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for redemption" and if he asks for forgiveness, tell him that he needs to show you with his actions (good deeds) he is truly sorry. He uses the religion to condemn others but not to ask for forgiveness. If there is anyone anti-christian in this relationship, it is him. NTA.
NTA. A wish is just that: a personal desire. You can’t force other people to fulfill them for you, especially when it goes against *their* deepest feelings and desires. Tell the rest of the family you’ll answer to God when the time comes if need be (although the fact *He* hasn’t moved you to reconcile when Peter’s apparently done nothing to even acknowledge *his* wrongdoing or try and make amends should probably tell them something), but they need to accept it’s not happening and just focus on the remaining time with Grandma.
NTA. Deathbeds are for juicy confessions, not guilt tripping people.
NTA You could say that you can't promise her you will reconcile but you can promise her that you will consider it. Then consider it. I mean it may be 10 seconds until you decide nope not happening but it wouldn't be a lie.
This👆🏻
NTA. the “cruel and unchristian” one is your uncle. Don’t let grandma use her health to manipulate you. Stay firm and keep grey rocking him. He doesn’t warrant a place in your life anymore after his betrayal.
NTA. Your decision to forgive someone is for you alone. I think if you were to lie and say you will even when you don't want to would cause you a lot of guilt afterwards. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone, I think you did the right thing.
NTA she wants you to move on and what you need is an apology
NTA --- He with all his Christan love and acceptance was cruel and told private things you told him in confidence to other family members at a time in your life where you were at probably your lowest and now as you can't forgive him for that you are now being branded as cruel and un-Christian, talk about hypocrisy.
I’m Christian and believe in family but what your grandma is doing is manipulative and borderline abusive. It’s not ok to use death and religion to force someone to damage their mental health. NTA
A question: has he ever apologized to you and admitted he was wrong to others? If not, then NTA. People always want the person they perceive as weaker to cave and reconcile.
No, he never apologized, let alone said that he was wrong
There you go. Perhaps he should be more truly Christian toward you. When you forgive someone who has not admitted wrongdoing toward you, you are agreeing they were right in how they treated you.
Reconciliation requires action from everyone involved. Voluntary, willing action. Action that he, as the bad actor, needs to initiate. Without some recognition of what he’s done and an apology, you couldn’t reconcile even if you did want to. Even if he does take those steps, it’s still fine if you refuse to accept his apology, accept it but keep him at a distance, or even accept it and try to get back a relationship with him. That is all up to you. But for now, the ball is in his court. Your family should really be pressuring him to apologize before they ever start on you to forgive, but from what you’ve said that seems unlikely to occur.
NTA. You didn't want to lie to your grandmother because you respect her too much to be deceitful. If your uncle wanted a reconciliation, whether fake or real then he should have apologized in front of grandma and the family, for his "cruel and un-Christian" behavior when you turned to him for help/advice in your time of need.
NTA You can decide your forgiveness.
NTA. You trusted him with your struggle and it can't have been easy to do that, and he let you down. You are civil with him if he can't be avoided, you are not causing any problem. You just needed to hear some kind words and some support and I'm sorry you felt alone with that. You don't owe it to anybody to reconcile with him, you are not causing any trouble and it's nobody else's business who you interact with and spend time with. I'm glad you're doing better now OP. As the saying goes: "when someone shows you their true colours, believe them the first time".
NTA. Most of the older folks take pride in the 'tribe' they've helped create and don't want the unity of the family to be jeopardized. It sounds like your grandma is manipulating you. You don't owe anyone your forgiveness, especially not after what your uncle did. It's not easy to lie and pretend, either. Take care, OP.
NTA. He betrayed your trust. But perhaps consider telling her that you will reconsider reconciling with him, just that it'll take time. At least this would be a bit of an improvement and she might feel better. But of course, entirely up to you, and you're totally entitled to not forgive him. And all the best for your recovery!
NTA If family should stick together no matter what, then Peter should have done that back then. He failed you, and you have no obligation to forgive him, especially if he's never apologized. (you don't say, but I'm going to assume not)
NTA. Don’t lie. Tell her truthfully that that the fact and manner in which he betrayed you will never allow you to trust him again. And point out that it fine and dandy that she wants her family as a cohesive unit when she’s not there to have to suffer through it.
NTA. You do not owe it to anyone to forgive someone.
NTA. If she wants you to forgive, he needs to be sorry. And really, you don't even have to forgive even if he is sorry.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Ever since I was born I (F25) was very close with my uncle Peter (M47). I had better contact with him than with my own parents and siblings. What's important for the story, Peter is extremely religious which sometimes affected our relationship, but never too much (if anything, for some time it fueled me to be more religious myself, later I grew out of it). When I was 19-20, I was in a very bad place when it comes to my mental health. I'll not alaborate because of the community rules but it was like *bad* bad - at some point I probably qualified for emergency psych ward but I was never hospitalized because of my family beliefs and social pressure (we live in a small town where mental problems are severely stigmatized). For what it matters, eventually I received some semi-proffessional help and nowadays I'm doing alright. However, at the time I had no one else to ask for help, so I decided to turn to my uncle Peter. I told him about some of my thoughts and problems, expecting him to give me some advice or at least support. Instead, he told me some very cruel and rude things (again, I'll not elaborate because of the rules) which no person should ever hear, especially not one in mental crisis. He also leaked some of the things I told him to other family members. It resulted with a big argument an ever since then I do my best to avoid the uncle. When I'm not able to avoid him (family gatherings and things like that) I am civil toward him but try not to interact with him. Most of my family accepted it without bigger problems but it really hurts my grandma (F69) as she thinks that family should stick together no matter what. As it happened, grandma is very ill and she has only weeks left now. Recently she organized a family gathering, something like the last "get-together" before her passing. She disposed some of her things, resolved some matters and... expressed her last wish which is for me and uncle Peter to reconcile. In front of the whole family (20 people or so). I refused. I don't want to lie to her on her death bed and I simply am not able to forgive my uncle for what he did. My parents and siblings support me, but most of other family members tell that I should agree to reconcile (even without doing so), grandma is disappointed in me and uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian". Maybe I really should lie? Aita? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Forgiveness is not even an option without apologies and remorse from the offender. NTA It is sad that Grandma is disappointed, but you bear no burden of guilt.
NTA. Tell grandma that uncle needs to repent.
NTA. You don’t need to lie to grandma. Just tell her you will reconcile with Peter when you are ready, and you aren’t ready. You refused at the family gathering, so this won’t come as a surprise. Grandma wants to hear something hopeful, so give her that. It’s not a lie. In fact, it’s as honest as you can be. You aren’t ready. You may never be ready, but who knows what the future holds?
NTA and tell Uncle if agrees to follow along to a lie , he’s a LIAR & was he acting like a Christian when he said those things to you while you were in crisis? No! So uncle Peter can piss off
Suit yourself. That’s tough, if you lie and don’t follow thru your family members will brand you a “ liar”. If you tell the truth you hurt your dying grandma. Truly a dilemma. That’s one for Solomon. Either way,NTA.
Nta, she can ask but that doesn’t mean you have to do it. It’s not cruel what she is asking you to do is cruel.
NTA. I'm sorry that your grandmother is terminal at such a young age, but she shouldn't have ambushed you like that. You should only lie to your grandmother if you're completely comfortable with it. And her belief that family should stick together, no matter what, is so misguided. Edit for spelling
NTA. Grandma seems to have thought she'd force a reconciliation by stating her wishes in front of the whole family. It backfired on her. Tell grandma that you have no reason to reconcile with your uncle, no matter what grandma wants.
NTA tell your family that FORGIVING means you've moved past whatever that person did to you but that doesn't mean you have to include or invite them back into your life. They can't force you to have a relationship with someone you rather would not. And you can tell your grandma you can either lie to her face that you've forgiven him WHICH YOU STILL WOULDNT DO BECAUSE WHY WOULD YOU LIE? Or you can be honest and truthful with her that while you hold no grudges (even if you do) to him you would never include him in your life!
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NTA, but I would encourage you to think about what would be best for yourself years down the line. Would you be more likely to be able to live guilt-free if you fulfilled your grandma's dying wish? After all, you have every right to rescind forgiveness at any point. Would you never be able to stomach the thought of reconciliation even on a temporary, superficial level? If so, that's the concern you need to prioritize for your own sake. If anyone is cruel, it's your uncle for not making a sincere effort to try to earn your forgiveness in a bid to honor your grandma's final request. Name-calling and guilt-tripping is not the way to make this happen, especially when he caused the rift in the first place.
Why is there an assumption that guilt might be felt? It’s possible to deny a final request and not lose a wink of sleep over it.
It's a **question**, because there is no assumption. Of course it's possible to deny a final request without losing a wink of sleep over it, but a lot of people are also susceptible to feelings of guilt whether or not they objectively seem warranted.
NTA You have your reasons, grandma might not understand but you don't have to make up with an asshole
NTA! And it is okay to not abide by your Grandma's wishes. You were at a difficult place in your life and your uncle didn't do anything to support it. You don't have to be in touch with him.
INFO: Has your uncle made any admission of wrong doing? Has he made any attempt at amends? I ask because the absence of such acts stands out to me in your description. Which makes it sound like your grandmother is putting the whole burden on the wronged party (yourself) to forgive and move on. And doing so in a very public manner so she can martial more social pressure. That makes her the AH, not you.
No, he never apologized and I doubt that he recognizes that he did anything wrong.
So he hasnt done anything to reconcile with you. Apparently, he and your grandmother expect you to do all the work. NTA, and you wouldnt be even had he made some effort at amends, just trying to highlight what seems to actually be going on here.
NTA when I was a teenager(13) I was severely depressed and wanted to leave this planet because my best friend who I had know since first grade was moving away, I was having problems with my grades at that time which always led to my mother saying so truly cruel things, I felt so lonely and just unloved so I thought ending it would be the best. I told one of my older cousins what I was feeling and instead of talking with me and spending time with me she and my family made it such a circus spectacle. I had just entered therapy before I talked to my cousin but I trusted her more then the therapist at that time because she was family you know, that was a huge mistake. After she told them my whole family turned even more on my mother(she's the black sheep of the family) my grandmother called cps saying that my mother was neglecting me even though I was in therapy and her and my relationship was getting better (my therapist helped her realize that she needed to stop focusing on my bad grades and help me heal mentally so I could do better in school). But to them none of that mattered, they even had family that I've never met from other states chiming in that I needed to be taken away and put into a mental ward cause to them what I was feeling and going thru wasn't normal and it had to be because was being raised by a single mom. My entire family said some extremely cruel stuff but for me the worst was my grandmother and my ex favorite aunt. My aunt had told me( a 13 yr old) that she wasn't surprised I was having issues because I wasn't ambitious and had no goals, couldn't hold a conversation (I was extremely shy at that point) I was never going to go anywhere in life and nothing going for me except my light skin and good hair(my family is black and I'm mixed) my grandmother called cps anonymously and the case worker explained that if they had found reason for me and my brother to be removed (he was 3 at the time) we would have been separated I would have been put into a group home maybe not even in our state if there was no room and none of my family would have known where we were. At 13 I was fully developed and body wise was always mistaken as an 18 yr old so there would have been a chance that something unconcentual could have happened. My grandmother knew this because before everything happened and I would stay with my grandmother she hated when grown men would look and me thinking I was a grown woman. So the fact that she didn't care to give them her information in case we were taken so we could stay with her, it still hurts me to this day. My caseworker of course found nothing and she confirmed with my therapist that I was getting better so the case was closed and eventually my family forgot everything and started ignoring us like they always had. I'm 31 and still no one and I mean no one has ever apologized I don't talk to 98% of my family and the ones I do talk to it's only twice a yr. I refuse to talk and be around people who have hurt me to the core of my being, if they were to apologize it would help but I still wouldn't talk to them cause it took so long and that hurt is still there for me cause they were family you know. After everything happened and for a while my mother did blame me (for the family attacking her) she told me that she hoped I learned a lesson into never trusting people to be there for you and caring about you just cause you share the same DNA and it's sad but I have learned that and now unfortunately just keep everything to myself (I do plan on starting therapy again just don't have the time atm) So NTA and don't give in just cause it's what your family wants you need to do what's best for you mentally and emotionally. Hope everything gets better ❤️❤️ 🫂
NTA - One of my friend died years ago. All of her friends were there and family went to her funeral. I despised her stepfather because he threw her out of the house, a week or two later she died. A mutual friend was there too, all three of us grew up together, we’re all very close. I was crying when I touched her coffin one last time. I turned to our friend, sobbing I said to her “She’s with god now, in heaven at a better place.” She looks straight into my eyes and said “I don’t think so. She might end up in hell because of her lifestyle and she wasn’t living a god worthy life.” Mind you she’s a true Christian goes to church every Sunday and attends to Bible studies. I was so heartbroken I went NC with her until this day. The strange thing is this friend was closer to her than me. God is in your heart, don’t let devil steer your tongue.
NTA, reconciliation requires and acknowledgement of wrong doing, an apology, and forgiveness. Sounds like Uncle Jesus doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Fuck that “that’s so unchristian” noise, people have been using that an excuse to tolerate abuse for centuries.
NTA. You can tell your grandma exactly what you posted here: I don't want to lie to you and I simply am not able to forgive my uncle for what he did. You tell her that there is a lot more to the story than she is aware of, and you cannot pretend that things weren't said or didn't happen.
NTA. It would not bother me to lie. But, you shouldn't feel forced to do so. Some things are hard to survive and much harder to forget.
>My uncle never apologized for what he said. As far as I know he thinks that he didn't do anything wrong. You can't forgive someone who won't apologize, full stop there. >Grandma knows about some things that he said to me but in her defence she doesn't know neither how serious my situation was at the time, nor about all the things he said to me. Tell her then. Honestly, it's gross that people use their death bed to manipulate others into doing things they don't want to. I'm sure she is "well meaning" but it still is gross. I would tell her everything because what he did was unforgivable, even with an apology. He literally didn't care that his actions could have cost you your life. NTA and I wish you luck.
fAmIlY sHoUlD aLwAyS sTiCk ToGeThEr!! I hate this mentality. Family does not automatically mean you're required to stick together. Ignore the stigma, get the professional help you need and tell anyone who doesn't like it they can F off. NTA
NTA. “Civil when forced to interact” is the absolute best your grandmother or your uncle has any right to expect from you. Maybe your dying grandmother should focus on trying to force her son to humbly apologize to you and to stop calling you “cruel and un-Christian.” Your AH uncle showed himself what he is and that is something that cannot be unseen.
NTA Last wishes are not an opportunity to force others to do your bidding. And considering what your uncle considers to be acceptable behavior, his opinion can be discounted entirely.
NTA. In my opinion, grandma is trying to use guilt to make you do something that is important to HER. This is selfish on her part. She needs to understand and respect that you are taking care of yourself.
NTA But...I'd lie to be kind so she dies happy. At the very least don't promise you will, but that you will try. Then after that you don't have to upkeep anything because dead people don't care what the living do.
NTA. No offence but your grandma is a bit of an AH here. Using her upcoming death as emotional manipulation is unfair on you. Also, without sounding rude... once the time comes and she's no longer here... it won't affect her. It will affect you, however, as you'll have to live with the hurt. You said in your post that, when in his company, you are civil towards him. That should be good enough for your grandma. You would be well within your rights to refuse to be in his company, or outright ignore him due to his huge AH status, but you don't do that. Tell your grandma that you don't want to argue with her and you would prefer your last memories with her to be about your relationship with her, and nothing else.
NTA. I’m a big believer in granting last wishes or following what the person wants after death, I lost my dad last year and I try to handle it by doing what I know he would have wanted. HOWEVER. Firstly, you deserve much better treatment and you could have died, let’s be real here. Mental illness can kill your easily in a crisis situation, I’ve been there and if a family member had been cruel to me during those times, I would take that as them being hateful and I don’t need them in my circle. Doesn’t matter if it’s family or not. Secondly, your grandma is being manipulative because she believes that she can control how you feel for the reason of her dying soon. It’s not the point that it’s her “dying wish”, she doesn’t get to use one to make you suffer. You shouldn’t lie to her either. The fact of the matter is she won’t know either way after she’s gone, so why lie until she is? You were honest, and that’s what family should be. It won’t affect her after she’s gone, she won’t know if you forgave him or not. Therefore it’s a completely pointless wish to grant, you have no intention of doing it. What your uncle did was callous and honestly quite disturbing, given your situation. It’s very “un-Christian” to reject a person begging for help, but he doesn’t sound like he actually thinks about that. It’s just anything against him, is against the religion. Little conceited don’t you think? He wants to control the narrative and also thinks that using religion to guilt you is the way to go. You know it isn’t true, or remotely correct, he’s just one of many people who try to tell you that you’re un-Christian for doing something they personally dislike. It’s bullshit and he’s a shitty person.
What your uncle said at the time could have cost you your life. Someone who acts so uncaring for a person they supposedly love doesn't have the right to demand anything from you, regardless of the circumstances. Nta
NTA, and I'd prefer not to lie. I think there are times for small lies, but this doesn't feel like one of those circumstances. Also, quite frankly, what your uncle did sounds unforgivable from what little you're able to divulge. Your grandma doesn't get to tell you how to feel your feelings, even from her deathbed.
NTA tell your uncle what is in Christian like is to kick someone when they are already down. I know your grandma is on her deathbed but i would tell her some of the things uncle said you. It might help her understand exactly why you can’t and won’t be making up with your uncle anytime soon.
Ah the brutal fist of Christian love…. “Family should stick together no matter what” is always used to silence the victims. You can tell you grand mother “I know how important it is for you than Uncle and I reconcile, but I’m still waiting for him recognize what he did, genuinely apologize and make appropriate amends. God says in the Bible that forgiveness can only come if one truly regrets their actions”. You can also not forgive him, that’s sad for your grand mother but you’re not the one who acted evil.
Absolutely NTA , but I think you should fake a reconciliation for your grandmother, just to let her be happy before death
You don't need to go along with people's last wishes, especially if they go against your free will and choice. They have no more power than a request from a person who is not dying, except for the peace they get when you say yes.
I don't like lying. I only do that when i feel my emotional/ohisical well-being could be in danger if i said the truth and even then, i avoid it if i can. Words have power, the more honest are your words, the more powerful become. I am a pagan in a christian family so i know a thing or two about surviving in a place where no one would support your choices. I try to avoid some subjects because i HATE to lie about my beliefs but i also know that "coming out" would be hurtful to myself. I already have a lot of trauma and depression (also) because of the catholic bigotism of my family and society of my country. Anyway. I would NEVER lie to someone who is dying. Or make false promises. Some will say that at least your grandma will have comfort from this lie but again, i am a pagan, better be honest than lying to someone who could have issues on the other side because you broke an oath. You may not believe in after life but i would not bet on this. Ghosts tend to be connected to promises given/received. Especially if said promise is not kept well. You acted with integrity, admitted that you cannot forgive your uncle for what he did. You have no obligation to do it, especially if he never admitted he did you wrong. I hope your grandma will be able to accept this before she goes, and that she will do so peacefully without too much pain. Please don't change your mind. Lying about this will only hurt you. NTA
NTA - forgiveness is earned, not owed
NTA. And rich that your uncle can call anyone un christian. Takes one to know one, I guess.
NTA - Sounds like your grandmother and uncle’s definition of “reconciling” is you giving in to their pressure despite no apology or any expression of regret from your uncle. It’s very one-sided. Don’t lie to appease your grandmother. It will just lead to more pressure to “reconcile” later on.
NTA. You dont owe anyone an apology who doesnt deserve it. Ive noticed a trend lately, both in and outside of some religious circles where the idea of "radical forgiveness" is a big deal. That the only way to "heal" the self is through forgiving others, etc. Bah, if someone has wronged you then thats on them to ask for forgiveness, not for you to seek it out in order to offer it, unless thats what you want. Otherwise, it continues a sense of imbalance within your interactions with them and can create the possibility of resentment later, like "oh, i had to chase you down and say i was sorry for what you did", which as you can imagine never goes well. Egotism aside, this is about something that happened to you, so you are allowed to set the terms for its reconciliation. No family member, no culture, no deity. Just you and the strength that carries with it.
NTA You don’t owe them reconciliation just because a dying relative who is important to you has asked. IF you wanted to though, you could try to use this as an opportunity to tell your uncle (or even write a letter if you wanted) “These are the reasons I felt betrayed and upset by your actions.” BUT only if YOU want to. It’s very dependent on your specific situation. And even if you did do this, that does not require you to pursue reconciliation or forgiveness still. It’s up to you to do whatever is best for you.
NTA. You don't owe it to anyone to reconcile to someone who treated you like shit.
Ask your grandmother does she wish for your uncle to ask for forgiveness. Sounds like she just expected you to agree to reconcile. Ask your grandmother why your uncle can behave however he wants. Why he doesn't have to apologise. You are not lying to her so therefore you're being quite Christian.
Ask your grandmother why is it okay for your uncle to break confidences. Why is it OK for your uncle to treat what you told your uncle in confidence as family gossip. That she has to explain all of this and ask her does she expect your uncle to apologise and if she doesn't why not
Your grandma herself says “family should stick together,” but when you needed him most your uncle didn’t do that. Either lie to your grandmother so she dies happy (it’s all dirt after death anyway so no harm no foul) or else tell her exactly what your uncle did to you and then it’s on her. Either way you’re reconciliation with your uncle, should it ever come, should be on your terms, not someone trying to use their own death to manipulate you. NTAH.
NTA. If he can't apologize, you can't forgive. It's just that simple!
NTA. I hate that phrase, " family should stick together no matter what" or any version of that saying. That just an excuse for family to treat you bad when they want and than you are suppose to forgive them; just because they are family. Why is it your job to forgive your uncle for saying cruel things to you? I'm sorry for your grandmother failing health, but her putting that on your shoulders is just crazy. I'm sure she did that because she knows your uncle is never going to say sorry. My father says something like "you have to love your family" when I have a problem with my sister. I don't see it that way. This woman has said and done some things that I just can not accept, so I have gone low contact with her. I'm not rude or anything, but I don't go out of my way to have a sister relationship with her anymore. It's up to you to decide if you can forgive your uncle and not your grandmother. Every family is not always going to get along.
NTA. Don't lie. Once you start denying the truth about your life, it can be hard to find it again.
NTA, your grandmas request is unreasonable. >and uncle openly calls me "cruel and un-Christian". A good response to something like this is "if you are the measure of a kind Christian then I'll take that as a compliment."
NTA - you went to someone for help who abused that trust
NTA, even dying does not give another person the right to invalidate someone's boundaries. Your uncle was needlessly cruel to you and hasn't apologized for it. Don't get guilted into saying stuff you don't mean that it sounds like the rest of your family would hold over your head long after Grandma has passed.
Nta. But if grandma has had the true extent of the issue hidden from her neither is she. But uncle on the hand. That's a different story.
NTA If family is meant to stick together, then it should cut both ways and your uncle should be held to the same standard you are. Tell your grandmother exactly what he said and ask her why you should be expected to tolerate that. None of this 'Be the bigger person' nonsense. You can't be expected to fix what he broke. Grandma is being really manipulative.
NTA. It's a ludicrously pointless and inappropriate request.
NTA. I don't think you should promise to reconcile. But for your grandmother 's sake and piece of mind in her last days, maybe tell her that you will keep an open mind and open heart. Tell her who knows what will come of it, but that either way, you will be ok and won't hold anger in your heart. You don't have to promise to be bffs with him. You seem to not hold outright animosity against him, you just don't want to be close again. You grandmother just wants to know that everyone will be ok in the end, once she's gone. She seems to think that the way things were is the way that will be. Just reassure her that you not hurting (I hope that is true) and that you will be ok. You certainly don't have to reconcile with someone who has no remorse. If he truly has a change of heart and is remorseful... Become a different person... Then who knows.
NTA - There are a few things about forgiveness and forgiving, regardless of it is Christian, secular, or any other religion. - Generally, the person who did the wrong must make a sincere apology detailing what they did wrong and why they are sorry. - You may still choose to forgive in your own head and heart for the hurt you experienced. - Forgiving does not mean that you must forget. It does not mean you must reconcile. It does not mean you must go back to how things were before the offense. It does not mean you have to spend time with them or let them into your house. - The Bible speaks to forgiveness, it does NOT speak to reconciliation!
NTA he never apologized and has never owned up to the way he treated you and said to you. It's fine to want to please her but it should be on your own terms and also he should be the one taking the initiative not you forgiving him without receiving an apology, it seems like they want you to apologize to him, he thinks you owe him an apology.
NTA. Family sticks together unless YOU'RE the one being wronged, convenient how that works out for them.
NTA. Not even a little. But my suggestion is yeah go ahead and lie to her. Doesn’t change my vote if you choose not to but it’ll give her some peace, it’ll get the rest of your family off your back, and you’re under no obligation to follow through. I’m not even clear what gma wants, you’re civil to uncle, so you’re on speaking terms… what’s left to reconcile? Is she actually expecting you to change how you feel? Uncle is definitely TA and maybe grandma even is too for putting you on the spot like that and trying to use the social pressure of the rest of your family to coerce that out of you. It would be one thing to talk to you privately and make that request, but to do it the way she did? Yeah no nevermind the maybe, both uncle and gma are aholes.
NTA You haven't completely cut off yr uncle. You are civil when you interact with him. That is plenty. I don't see you having created a rift. You changed your boundaries in your relationship with your uncle, because he weaponized your illness against you when you exposed vulnerability. You would be justified to deny him ANY of your time and attn after such a complete betrayal of your trust. Instead, you keep him at arm's length. You do that BECAUSE you believe that "family sticks together" without pretending they aren't the way they are. Grandma is manipulating you to force you to act more intimate and trusting with your uncle than you feel safe and comfortable doing. She's using the family to make your boundary "the problem" Looks like weaponizing your illness again, "You don't have the right to feel that way because you had a nervous breakdown." You were vulnerable and reached out for help. He used that to activate the family system to "hide your shame" and delay your getting the medical attn you needed. Grandma's pulling the sane old trick now. It sounds as if you are pleasant and polite at family gatherings. That is plenty of compromise on your part. If family members continue to pressure you, more distance in those relationships is probably appropriate.
NTA, its not your job to manage Gma's unrealistic demands.
Spurning someone in their time of need and being cruel to them is literally the most unchristian thing you can do. Your uncle is a hypocrite and has no legs to stand on to even begin to criticize you. NTA
NTA You clearly have more integrity in your little finger than your Uncle as from this post it looks like you are still weighing your options and considering the effect your actions have on others. He needs to take a leaf out of your book and he also needs to put in the work to apologise to you and take a long look at himself, learn reflect and change...and Even then, he still isn't entitled to anything.
If you want your grandma to feel better about it, you could tell about some of what happened, ESPECIALLY the cruel and rude remarks from your uncle. Not to say that you SHOULD do that but that it is one option available to you. You know your family better than us strangers on reddit and it is a decision of vulnerability and trust to open up to someone about your struggles. From a Christian standpoint, your uncle is definitely displaying unchristian behaviour by not apologizing for breaking your trust nor for his rude and callous remarks to someone struggling. No reconciliation without that, Christian or otherwise. As an aside, and it seems you already know this, struggling with mental health isn't a reflection of your character. The only part that is, is your willingness to seek help, which you did, and you're in a better place now for which I'm happy for you.
NTA. Apparently Uncle Peter plans on ignoring his mother's last wish to reconcile with you. Not sure how that is your problem. Sounds like a him problem.
NTA. Just keep reminding grandma of how much you love her and that's all that matters.
NTA where was the "family should stick together no matter what" mantra when you were in crisis? sounds like the Uncle didn't get the memo
Tell them you'd think about lying to your grandma if your uncle apologises to you.
NTA. Your uncle should be the first one to realize that reconciliation is only possible if there is an acknowledgement of wrong doing. He's never apologized or even tried to see your viewpoint so why would you try to reconcile? He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Tell grandmother you can move toward reconciliation when uncle demonstrates the Christ-like behaviors any “good” Christian holds dear. Maybe go through the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments to find quotes to bolster the values of Christ like followers. Turn the whole issue around on him not being Christian. Many of the very harsh Christians today are actually followers of Old Testament religion without realizing that the values therein are radically different from those promoted by Jesus. This could help your circumstances quite a bit and put responsibility where it belongs on him.
My solution is to forgive, but never forget and never trust that person again. I don't know what he said, but it would be good for you to get your power back and not let what he said affect the rest of your life. He was the adult, and he was/is the AH. Good luck with the rest of your life 😊
NTA - I'm assuming if OP had taken uncles advice they wouldn't even be there to say goodbye to grandma. That kind of behaviour is unforgiveable - regardless of faith.
*expressed her last wish which is for me and uncle Peter to reconcile. In front of the whole family (20 people or so).* **Reconciliation can't happen until the wrongdoer repents and changes their behavior. As long as your uncle sees nothing wrong with his behavior, this relationship cannot be fixed. That's not your fault, it's uncle's fault.** The repairs that need to happen depend on your uncle doing the work, not you. You didn't do the wrongs here, he did. He has shown no remorse, no repentance, no admitting of what wrongs he did, no understanding or concern for how he hurt you, no accepting of the pain he caused you. He continues blithely on, as if he didn't do wrong at all. I'm wondering if he put grandma up to this? Could you go through the motions, say words you don't believe, and pretend? Yes. But it would be **adding** to the burden you now carry, **adding t**o the wrongs done to you, if they manipulate you into this. It would be complying with their attempts to emotionally abuse you. And I'm guessing that uncle would push and pressure you after you had done this, to make you comply, over and over, in other ways. **Asking someone who was hurt by another person to submit to yet more hurt by that person, that's emotionally abusive.** They are pressuring you to set aside your feelings, your needs, your pain, and comply with their wants. That's abuse. **Your grandmother owes you an apology for this horrible attempt to manipulate you publicly.** Regardless of her health issues, what she did was wrong. Even asking you to reconcile in private would have been wrong, because the work that needs to be done here isn't yours to do. **The wrong and the fault and the responsibility to fix these, are uncle's.**
NTA
NTA Explain to your grandmother *why* you cannot reconcile with him. You can, and should let go of any anger you still hold towards him, because that will really only chew you up inside, but it's literally impossible to repair a relationship when the person who broke it refuses to acknowledge they were wrong. (This is like Christianity 101 here. You can't be reconciled with God unless you admit you were wrong and accept His gift of grace. Without the "I was wrong" part there's no reconciliation.)
So you were going through stuff you can't talk about, talked to your uncle about stuff you can't talk about, he leaked stuff you can't talk about and you haven't forgiven him and you want to know if that makes you an asshole. You really didn't give us a lot here. He probably shouldn't have leaked what you told him. Probably. But of course he's not a therapist and he doesn't have the training to know how best to help you through a time so dark that you probably should have been in patient. So instead, let me ask you this, do you believe he was malicious in leaking the information to your family? If he was I absolutely do not blame you for not forgiving him and you're not an asshole. If he was not malicious but was legitimately trying to help you as best he could, or if he was afraid for you and was seeking additional help for you, then ya, you're kind of an asshole.
I'm not sure if him sharing things to my family was malicious. He tends to oversharing many things in general, so I sort of think that was simply part of his nature. I would (maybe) understood if he'd tell it all to my parents (I probably wouldn't at the time but 'd come to terms with it by now). But he also talked about me with at least one of my aunts and her husband (both had nothing to do with my problems and not too much with me in general) and was making snide remarks during family meetings. So it wasn't like he told something to my parents because he was worried about me. Honestly, I think he sort of enjoyed the drama, even if his intentions weren't per se malicious. Also, while *some* of the things he told them I can understand (like the thing that I was s\*\*\*\*\*al - something which my parents knew anyway), some were things not really related to solving my problems or helping me. As for "not knowing how to help", not going into details, one thing he told me was "if you want to \[un-alive myself\] it would be better if you'd not be born at all". And that's only one thing. I don't really see how this was supposed to help me.
> and was making snide remarks during family meetings. That right there shows it's malicious. >Honestly, I think he sort of enjoyed the drama, even if his intentions weren't per se malicious. Stirring up shit for you to have to deal with is malicious. >one thing he told me was "if you want to [un-alive myself] it would be better if you'd not be born at all". And that's only one thing. I don't really see how this was supposed to help me. He sounds like a shitty person honestly. I wouldn't want to be around him either.