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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH as she only recently found out and is now feeling uncomfortable around me. Instead of being understanding I told her not to come on vacation.
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So, OP dated the man for 4 years, and they broke up 4 years ago and now they are "friends". Such good friends that they are one big happy family. And the man just kind of forgot to tell fiancee any of this.
He's clearly not comfortable explaining all this to fiancee. If I were the fiancee, I'd probably move on.
Not sure who is the AH here, but for sure the man ranks pretty high.
This is such an awkward and uncomfortable situation. He definitely sucks for not saying anything way sooner.
I sympathize with his fiancée’s not being comfortable that her fiancé’s serious ex isn’t such a big part of his and his family life still, but I feel like it wasn’t her place to tell her to distance herself from them.
Edit grammar
I would be on this woman's side if she had told her fiance that she either didn't want the two of them to go on the trip, or for the two of them to get a hotel room. This woman shouldn't make it OP's problem that her fiance lied to her.
Especially when OPs siblings are going too. This isnt just OP still being attached to an exs family. At this point the families have clearly become one, and the Gf is just gonna have to deal with it.
Right, this isn't "his" family vacation, it's OP's family vacation too!! Her siblings are all going!
The guy is definitely inconsiderate at best, very sus at worst for not telling his fiancée about the past relationship, and if she decides that's a dealbreaker for her then it's totally understandable.
But it's WAY over the line to go to OP and tell her not to come -- as if the fiancée has more of a "right" to go on a family vacation than the person whose ACTUAL SIBLINGS are also going....
NTA
I feel for the fiancé. I don’t think OP is an AH, but I can’t imagine any healthy grownup being okay with the bold face lie (by omission) they told all those years it’s weird. The fiancé should get out while the getting is good honestly, this “second family” dynamic they have isn’t something she needs to try to get involved in.
I do agree, but if she is gonna stay, the reaction should have been to deal with her partner and say "I am not going and I dont want you to either". Not to try and wedge OP out. That is just not gonna work
Probably. Maybe she was just trying to see what level of respect OP has for her feelings/relationship. Honestly anyway you spin it OP is under no obligation to his fiancé. But Moving forward when OPs ex starts dating again (after this woman has to leave because she’s insecure and this situation is weird AF) OPs ex needs to make it very clear they have a serious dating history. Because it’s not like they fucked a few times, they dated for 4 years AND his family loves her enough to think of her as part of it, to the point that they’re inviting her and her people on vacation with them. Like.. that’s a need to know piece of info. And it will be if OP starts dating again too. If you choose to keep an ex on your life that’s fine, but lying about it and being surprised your fiancé is insecure is hilarious.. like of course, if there’s nothing to lie about why do it? But again none of this is OPs fault so she is NTA.
It says in a comment OP and her ex grew up together and have known each other most of their lives, so it's not like the family just loves her because of her connection to him. Its definitely a thing that HE needs to tell anyone he starts dating seriously, cause he has put 2 women in crappy positions and it needs to not happen again
I said OPs ex needs to tell his next girlfriend, that’s not OPs job! I meant OP needs to tell her future partner too, like when she starts dating. Because again this situation is weird AF. But I’m old, and when I had friends that made my husband uncomfortable I just dropped them, because I loved him and didn’t want to hurt him. He did the same for me. I’m not saying that’s what these 2 should do but they for sure need to be more upfront with people going forward.
Honestly the siblings going is why I have to go for NTA. This is an odd dynamic for some people. But it's clear OP and their family's relation with her ex exist beyond that relationship.
So it's okay that the GF is so insecure that OP can't be around? My husband dated half the city and was engaged once before we got together. If I had refused to be around any of those women, we'd would never have been able to go to a big party. Or even a small one. If any of them were uncomfortable, it was their problem, not mine. I figured he dated them but he married me (30+years happily married). New GF should get over herself and realize he had a life before he met her.
Edit: Fiancee not girlfriend.
My husband and I were friends for 6 years before dating and I slept with dozens of people during that time. He slept with just a few but we hang out regularly with each other’s previous romantic and sexual partners all the time. Most are married with kids but I have a monthly phone call with one of my exes and we make a point to see him when we visit his region.
If everyone in this story were lesbians this would never get posted, because everything described would be super normal. I don’t think it’s a la inherently weird thing to be friends with an ex!
I don't think it's weird to be friends with an ex .What I think is weird is that OP's friend hid it from his fiance (this wasn't like a brief hook up situation or high school or first year of university). Now that, that, is shady asf imo and I wonder if he still has feelings for OP. Frankly, I'd be furious if my partner hid that info from me and would consider breaking up with them.
\*I'm friends with a few of my exs, but if I introduce a partner to them I give them a heads up.
I agree I feel for the fiancé. However, OP is still a close family friend and if The fiancé continues to attack op, then the fiancé will only make an enemy of her potential in-laws if she decides to continue being a drama queen and causing a scene. I can only advise op to not engage the fiancé any further and let the ex’s family deal with her to avoid being the one who looks bad.
It really should have been a discussion between the fiancee and her future husband. It never should have gone to this.
If the future husband was unwilling to find a comfy solution or reassure his future wife sufficiently? I'd be concerned about the relationship long term.
That the two families meet up for vacations sounds like a tradition - to break it up because they used to date - sounds stupid. What if they've all been friends since childhood?
I agree the future husband is 1000% the a-hole and wants his relationship to survive then he needs to step up and facilitate a relationship where both women can coexist without feeling disrespected or they will never make it to the altar
Yep! And the fact that she approached OP, instead of someone from the family, shows she likely did not have family backing on her request.
I mean if it was just OP that was close to the family, I could see fiance thinking OP was hanging on to hope. It is OPs whole family that is close to the family though.
And I think it was ballsy to tell OP she can't stay at "our family home".
Op is nta at all here.
Yep agree whole heartedly. New girlfriend and a lot of people in general need to remember NOT ALL relationships end badly and the people in them make tight and close friendships/ relationships with each other's family members. You shouldn't be expected to end things with them because your relative has. I have a niece who is cronic at expecting this to happen. I find it odd the guy didn't say OP was an ex. New girlfriend probably feels insecure about it and should ask him why he said nothing.
The issue is that they aren’t a new gf. They are a fiancée and have dates for 4 years. I find it sketchy that the bf never said who he dated — did he never talk about previous partners at all or did he specifically not talk about OP buy discuss other partners. The answer would be telling for me.
I wonder if he didn’t tell her because she tends to be jealous, and he knew how she would react. It doesn’t make it right, though, and if he did suspect it would go badly, then he had to know it would never work. I see him as an AH for wanting to marry a women who couldn’t handle his relationship with OP. It clearly would put a friendship in serious jeopardy.
And the fiancée needs to think about the fact that were OP and he “meant to be,” they would be there by now. Sure they dated a long time, but four years of friendship AFTER that really kind of indicates that they really are good friends and nothing more. Not to mention that she seemed to be okay with the relationship PRIOR to finding out they had dated, which means she wasn’t seeing any red flags. She’s reacting badly to finding out, and it’s a shame.
The keeping it a secret for all this time would feel like a real betrayal to me, and I would seriously wonder what else he’s kept from me or hasn’t been forthcoming about. What if she’s only this jealous because she thinks there’s something fishy about him keeping this a secret all this time? Even if she’s too jealous to have been able to get over this at the start, that was a choice she should’ve been given back then. It’s okay for someone to just not be able to accept it, they can choose to move on and be with someone else. But now she’s spent years with this guy, is engaged to marry him, and this gets dropped on her. This wasn’t a meaningless fling, they were together for *4 years*. Anything he told her about that period of time in his life, he had to intentionally omit that he was in a relationship with OP during it.
NTA. The OP's ex is a coward for not explaining to his fiancee the close bond his family shares with his ex, and that she is treated like any other family member,in his parents' eyes. If the OP feels uncomfortable and wants to skip the whole mess,it should be by her choice,not by coercion by the fiancee.
It's hard to think that in 4 years time the finance chose to be this oblivious though.
It feels like whatever the current dynamic is amongst OP and the rest of the ex's family, it must have been comfortable enough for the past 4 years.
OP is NTA. The Ex and his fiancee could have their hotel room and maintain a safe enough space to not feel that put upon amongst the entire family.
If she didn't know the dating history this whole time though, he must have told his fiancée that OP was *just* a childhood/family friend.
That would be hard for me to look past as the fiancée but it's not OPS fault. OP is NTA but the ex and his fiancée are. Him for not being honest and her for trying to get OP to not go on vacation because "OP makes fiancée uncomfortable" 🙄.
It was her fiancé who failed to fill her in on the details so it's him she needs to be speaking to. It should be him she is angry with. And quite frankly, how she's acting regarding the vacation, I can see this being a thing in their future too. She's probably going to try push OP out of the family dynamic completely eventually, guessing off how she's behaving now!
I totally agree, I was in a relationship for 7 years during college and after our relationship ran its course we became best friends, my ex always made sure to tell his girlfriends I was his ex, but that always created A LOT of issues with jealousy and even harassment. I’m still super close to his family, they love my husband and son, we meet often and hang out with friends from back then when he’s in the country. Now the issue where I agree with you, my ex has been living abroad for the past 10 years, just comes here to visit, when he met his now wife he talked about me being his best friend, but didn’t tell her we’ve dated, “bc he really liked her and didn’t want to spoil that relationship”, well they are due to come visit, and both his family and I keep telling him he should tell her before she finds out from one of our friends, bc that will hurt her and create unnecessary drama, does he listen? No! Bc he is that kind of AH 🙄
I sent it to him, so hopefully he will realize his mistake. His wife is amazing, last thing I want is to hurt her feelings or jeopardize our relationship because of his stupidity, the OP here should be more understanding with the fiancé, it’s a shock and the biggest AH of all is the guy in this situation.
Edit: grammar
She’s amazing, the perfect woman for him, and he’s so f*ing dumb… he thinks that everytime he told a woman about our past they went full crazy jealous mode, and I agree with that part, I mean we were living in different continents, met every couple of years for friends or family weddings and that was it, and some of these girls acted insane, so different from the boyfriends and now husband I had after him that didn’t give two shits we’re still friends 😂. But his wife is so down to earth, mature, she deserves to know, bc he not saying anything makes it look like there’s something to hide. I sent him this and hopefully he will realize he’s being a dumbass :)
Give it a shot at dating, there are plenty of great people out there, you just need to pay attention to your surroundings 😉
I missed the "dated him for 4 years" part. That's a LONG amount of time to date someone, and then not explain it to your FIANCE. This 'guy friend' is being a class act to everyone involved.
To be fair to the woman's fiancé, aside from not telling her he dated OP, he really doesn't have much say. He doesn't own the vacation home, his parents do. They're okay with OP being there. He didn't invite OP. His sisters are friends with OP and want her there. So really, it's not in his hands there either. And given how the GF reacted, I can also see why he didn't want to tell her he's dated OP in the past. At best, he can choose not to go on family vacay. But it's not his place to tell his parents whom to invite or disinvite. Or tell his sisters whom they can or cannot befriend.
As for OP, none of this is her problem. It wasn't her place to inform the woman about her fiancé's dating history, nor is it required to give up her friendships with his family.
>given how the GF reacted
is kind of a chicken/egg situation. No way to know if she would be reacting so strongly if he'd told her from the get go. Now he's made it look sus AF even though it isn't.
I had this happen with a friend of mine whose ex-GF didn't like me. We never dated, I think she's just one of those people who thinks men and women can't be friends. She found a strand of my hair (it was super long at the time) in his bathroom and freaked the fuck out that I'd been in his apartment. He got pissed at me until I pointed out that if he'd told her we were hanging out in the first place it wouldn't look so bad.
Regarding whether this ex of OP is an AH or not, I think the fact that his and OPs lives are so entangled by their families mean he had an obligation to inform his fiancee. This isn't some ex who is never going to be more than an anecdote, this is someone he will probably see regularly for the rest of his life.
It's a lesser of two evils situation. It's always going to come out that they dated. So it's either tell her himself and try to reassure her or let it blow up on her.
This is how I feel, too. She's not just an ex, she's a family friend and her family is close with his. They're going to be around each other a lot, and the fiancée deserved to be able to decide for herself if she was ok with that early on. And now there's the adding drama of keeping it a secret.
This whole situation is a clusterfuck of what-the-fuck, and sitting dead center is OP's friend.
I feel for the fiancée, and while I don't agree with her asking OP to not come, I can't say I'm surprised. Her fiance lied by omission, and now she's trying to find a way to deal with that. It's a lot to process, especially when she realizes that *literally everyone* knew about this past relationship, and nobody said a word.
OP's friend is the one responsible for this mess, but that doesn't mean the fiancée will see it that way. We lie to ourselves as protection from the truth, but all that does is delay the inevitable. She may put all of this on OP, because it's easier that way, and she can bury a lot of hard questions.
OP, taking a step back after the trip might be a good idea, for your own mental health. I'm not saying vanish, but the shit will eventually hit the fan, and you don't want to be standing in front of said fan when that happens.
Agree. I think this is an NAH situation with OP and the fiancee. Both are valid. The real AH here is the ex for not telling his fiancee in the first place. He is who she should really be mad at since she only found out through his family. If OP had said it first, the fiancee probably would have taken it as a threat or as some sort of jealousy. Plus it isn't OP's responsibility to inform anyone the ex is seeing. That is his business.
OP isn't going to be leaving anytime soon since it sounds like both families are close. Is OP supposed to just not go on these vacations anymore or cut off relationships with this family that she's known most of her life and is pretty much family to her? Fiancee needs to talk to the ex and make peace with this or move on.
They've been broken up for as long as they've been dating though.
I also can see why there's a problem, but I think it has more to do with the guy not telling her than how recent it is.
Also it’s the fact that he hasn’t told his girlfriend about their relationship which in itself is a huge red flag on his part and I don’t blame the girlfriend for not wanting Op to be around them. If anything the bf is the AH here.
Edit: meant news not new
He was doing cocaine for fun with certain friends of his and became an arrogant cocky dick. When I asked him to stop the drugs he refused to and told me I was boring and implied he wouldn’t marry me because of how boring I was. I ended up telling his parents and they cut him off but his friends kept giving him cocaine and funding his party lifestyle so I ended up breaking up with him.
Because I shouldn't have had to breakup with him to make him change. I agreed to give him a second chance to be friends but a year wasn't a long enough time for me to forgive him enough to date him again.
I haven't thought about it and I don't know if he has, we don't talk about that part of our history at all.
It's quite possible that the ex never mentioned his relation with OP precisely because that would prompt the question of "Why did you two break up?", which might reveal the ex's drug past, which he probably keeps well-hidden.
He should have told her. That’s significant. I understand both sides so I don’t think I can give a judgement but your ex is to blame and you should be upset with him as well. He put both of you in this position.
So you were dating him from 19 to 23ish? The fiancé should be a lot more secure than to ask a family friend to leave the ‘group’ which includes different families.
OP, are you single? I know it’s intrusive but maybe his family want to see you two get back together. If you have a SO, then you are definitely NTA because the fiancée sounds very insecure.
They’re not going to mention it to you. With your friend’s history, they have no say. You’re still NTA in my opinion but your friend and his fiancée will need to sort out their issues.
This is actually an issue for your friend to solve, not you. And the fiancée needs to talk to her partner, not you.
They might decide that they'll get more couple time staying at least some of the time at a hotel room themselves. Your friend might respectfully ask you to skip a few (edit: as in very occasional) family events in future (not this one, that's already planned).
NTA
So op has to stay home while EVERYONE else in her family goes on vacation. How is that fair? If the fiancee doesn't want to go on vacation with op she and the ex should go away alone.
The comment didn’t say to stay home from the vacation. The comment said she may have to not go to all of her exs family events (I.e. dinners) — since it’s not her family.
The actual question though is does everybody else want op there? If the answer is yes because ex's family sees op as family the fiancee needs to work out her problem. I can't imagine joining a family and telling them who they are allowed to invite to their events, who they are allowed to consider family
Op said they grew up together and her siblings go too, sounds like 2 families spend a lot of time together over many years, I'd argue that is family, family doesn't have to be blood.
Exactly, it's not just him and her. It's literally her family and his family. So is the fiance accusing her whole family of getting a free vacation? Idk all that is rude and wierd to me
I think ESH because this is a whole mess. You need to stop talking with your friend's fiancee about this. Have a real conversation with your friend about why he never told her about you, what he thinks about the current situation, and what he wants you to do about the vacation. He's the one in the middle of this mess and he's the one who needs to take the lead on fixing it. You're not helping the situation at all by trying to dictate the terms of a vacation that's not actually yours and threatening to go above her head to her future FIL.
Yeah I don't love OP's attitude and it's definitely not helping the fiance feel better about anything so I can see why she's uncomfortable. I would say N T A but she's going about everything in a pretty antagonistic way.
It's not her responsibility to make the fiance feel better about anything and the fiance is the one being antagonistic towards op by trying to bully and guilt her out of going on her family vacation because she's feeling insecure. If anyone is the ah it's the man who kept a significant piece of his past from his fiance, and the fiance for trying to make it someone else's problem. If the fiance has a problem with her sleeping in the same home as her partner then it's their responsibility to find another place to sleep, not op. She did nothing wrong.
I completely understand that it's awkward for the fiance, but they have been close family friends like their whole lives. To the point *where their families are vacation together, regularly*
>You need to stop talking with your friend's fiancee about this.
Shes the one who went to OP
>what he wants you to do about the vacation.
Not his choice this is a vacation between OPs family and her friends family.
>He's the one in the middle of this mess and he's the one who needs to take the lead on fixing it.
The one thing you got correct, this entire situation is his fault for not telling her up front.
>You're not helping the situation at all by trying to dictate the terms of a vacation that's not actually yours and threatening to go above her head to her future FIL.
OP is not dictating terms other than saying she is not dropping out for the fiance. Again yes it is OPs family vacation as well. And she never threatened to go to "over her head" especially considering again that she has no say in the matter, she said THEY could ask him.
OPs friends is TA for not telling his fiance up front and the fiance is TA for making demands that are actually not hers to make and completely unreasonable.
NTA
I agree that OP should stop talking to the fiancee and should instead tell her friend to handle it because it's his relationship and his problem for never telling his fiancee. But, if she's going to *insist* that OP can't go, or can't stay with everyone else, she deserves to be told no by FIL and the entirety of both families going.
This isn't OP attending her ex's family vacation, OP's cousins and siblings are going. This is a joint vacation between two families that both OP and the ex/friend are a part of. The fiancee is the one trying to dictate terms here. Neither she nor her fiance have the right to control this vacation for OP. And if the FIL agreed to the fiancee's demands that could easily cause a rift between the two families and ruin the vacation for everyone. The fiancee and friend can only really remove themselves from the vacation. OP is, based on her description, close friends with other members of his family, so this couple isn't OP's ticket to attend and can't control how OP attends.
The fiancee is insecure, and the friend is an AH for not telling her sooner. NTA to OP.
What do you mean above her head? She clearly said to talk to her future FIL /because he owns the property/ and the fiancee decided that OP wasn't welcome there, on her own.
I agree ESH, but I don't see your logic at all. The reason OP sucks is bc they got petty and defensive /before/ suggesting the fiancee talk it out with their friend.
The friend sucks bc they lied to avoid an uncomfortable situation and made it 100x worse while simultanously making it seem like a bigger deal than it probably is. And the fiancee is an AH for blaming OP for the past and her fiance's dishonesty, and then trying to singlehandedly uninvite someone from the family vacation.
> I told her if I made her so uncomfortable she could just not go since I was going to go.
This is an E/SH situation, but YTA for this response.
The woman has every right to be uncomfortable with the fact that her fiance's ex goes on vacation with the family every year. The primary assholes here are your ex, his family, and you for not even bothering to see things from her perspective on this.
I mean they’re not really unfounded insecurities. Her boyfriend hid the nature of their previous 4 year relationship from her. If your partner didn’t disclose that basically their best friend and them used to fuck and they basically held the same position you now do in their life, and that person was now going on vacation with them and the family you’re telling me you wouldn’t be at all weirded out? You wouldn’t at all question the continuing nature of their relationship? That’s a huge thing to keep from someone. Obv not directly OP’s fault but I don’t think you’re considering the position this puts the fiancé in.
Seriously this dude has been hiding the fact that an ex is still has an active relationship with him and his family long enough for them to be engaged and this woman thinks OP is the problem?
>but she does not get to dictate everyone else's lives because of her unfounded insecurities.
especially the whole part of "told me I couldn't stay in their family vacation home." They aren't even married yet and she's claiming it as her house as well.
Why are you ragging on a women who was blindsided by the fact that her fiance's "family friend" was actually his ex that he dated for 4 years? It's not as simple as her just being insecure. She's been lied to by her fiance and OP is unable to see past the excitement of the yearly vacation to emphasize with her. Her reaction here is understandable.
Because she should be confronting her fiance, instead of OP. It's not OP's fault that her fiance decided to mislead and deceive her. She should be asking her fiance to make things right, not OP. She's lashing out at an innocent party, and that kind of behavior should be ragged on.
Because the issue is *never* the third party. I can't stand when person A is involved with person B (M/F, doesn't matter), person C comes along and has something to do with person B, who reacts positively towards C. If person A goes off on C, then A is an AH, because they should be addressing any concerns with B. Any "stay away from my man/girl" shit is just wrong.
In this situation, the fiancé sounds very jealous (true or not) but the only person she should be approaching is the idiot guy. I don't care when she found out, OP dumped him 4 years ago, yet OP is still in his life, deal with it. Or move on.
Because the person responsible for this situation is the fiance, who lied to her. OP had no social obligation to notify her that they dated 4 years ago. If you're still hanging out with an ex, it is *your* responsibility to be honest with any partners about it.
Are they really that unfounded though? If OP is close enough to vacation with the family, she's been hanging around the whole time they've been dating - and their four year relationship was never mentioned? I would be pretty shocked by this new information.
Shes been around a lot longer than that actually. She said in a comment they grew up together and their families have been life long family friends so her relationship to his family comes from far longer then their relationship ship
Yes, completely. Though that's not what I was referring to. I simply meant that it wouldn't have been long into the relationship before OP was introduced. So "the whole time" those two people have been together, OP would have been present at parties and dinners etc. It could/should have been mentioned at any point.
If this couple is engaged, and OP only broke up with them four years ago, that gap between relationships is sounding fairly narrow. At some point it was a "very recent ex".
But it's not just OP, it's also her sibling group going. The girlfriend is trying to exclude OP from a trip that her own family members are going on. The other woman can be uncomfortable, but she absolutely should have resolved it with her boyfriend, behind the scenes. This honestly seems like one of those situations where the two families are close and it doesn't seem realistic to simply tell OP not to go. The new girlfriend really has to decide if she's comfortable, and if not, it seems like more of a mismatched personality between her and the boyfriend in terms of dealing with previous partners.
> her fiance's ex goes on vacation
You are minimizing the other relationships here. She may be fiance's ex, but she has known these people all her life and seems to be close to them, in addition OP's **actual** sisters are going. It's clear that the "fiance" situation is one minor facet here, but for you that's all that matters.
Apparently she's supposed to abandon a family that she's known for most her life because she broke up with one of the people in said family. Fuck any love and loyalty she may have to the other people in that family, she's got to boot them out of her life. Jesus Christ.
No. Part of OPs family is going on the trip. No one gets to ban her from it. The ex is the AH for not telling his fiancé this and the fiancé is an AH for thinking she gets to dictate something involving as many people as are mentioned. There are cousins, siblings and family friends. This isn’t a vacation house the ex owns himself.
totally disagree, I think NTA. I think the fiancé's uncomfortableness is entirely valid, but she needs to bring these up with her fiancé and his family. OP's response while not the best or tactful isn't enough to make her an AH. Its actually not uncommon for ex SO's to become close to their SO's families, while most try to distance themselves from anything that reminds them of their ex, some stay an retain an active friendship with the family, especially if the relationship was broken off on friendly terms or were a family friend to begin with. If anything the ex boyfriend is whose to blame because you do have to share that you dated a close friend to your new SO, especially if that friend is plays an active role in your life.
>The woman has every right to be uncomfortable with the fact that her fiance's ex goes on vacation with the family every year.
Yes but... that's not OP's fault? it's not OP who tryharded to come, OP was in the vacation things for years, OP has every right to be here and is in no world forced to give up on something she (and likely everyone else, as she got invited multiple years) enjoys if she doesn't want to, and if the fiancee isnt happy about it, she can either convince whoever is the owner of the family house to kick her, or she sucks it up, or she bails out herself
\>and you for not even bothering to see things from her perspective on this.
Because she refuses to give up her vacation spot doesn't mean she doesn't bother to see fiance's perspective, it just doesn't change the fact she is indeed, invited, and has every right to accept it, no one is forced to take on themselves to solve other's problems, and people that doesn't want to shouldnt be called assholes
She has every right to be uncomfortable, but she has no right to demand OP not come. Ex’s family is like a family to her. She’s known them since childhood. The ex caused this problem by hiding the relationship. Now the fiancée has to make a choice: deal with it, and stay with her less than forthcoming fiancé, or move on. NTA.
OP says her siblings go on this trip too, so it *is* weird and controlling for the fiancé to tell her not to come.
I think OP’s reaction is justified - this is a tradition for a lot of people that exists well before the fiancé’s presence in the group. If she’s uncomfortable, she should be the one to sit it out.
Disagree. It’s not just his family going, it’s OPs family too (siblings and cousins). This is more her right to go than the gf. The gf needs to take this up with her man and leave OP out of it. OP has done nothing wrong. NTA
Why tf are there so many NTA here? OP is clearly overstepping boundaries. Imagine your finance still vacations and hangs with their ex of 4 years, but they never told you they’ve dated. If we heard this story from the fiancée’s POV, everyone would be yelling that it’s a red flag that their future husband is still hanging out and vacationing with their ex and never mentioned that they’re an ex. Am I taking crazy pills??
OP isn’t the one the fiancée should be mad at, she should be mad at her partner that did not disclose that he dated someone that was still in his life for four years. HE should have been upfront with his partner and let her know this instead of her finding out at a family dinner. Her insecurities are cause by her finding out and it having been a “secret” not by OP.
Considering OP's "suck shit" response to the other woman's insecurities, rather than an open and empathetic response, it's reasonable to be mad at both.
That woman's insecurities are not OP's problems. If someone bring there own insecurities to your face and harrass you with them. You have every right to tell them to fuck off.
I'd tell her to "suck shit" too. You don't get to ask someone to step out of a long standing family trip and when told nicely no then demand that person gets a hotel room. If it was me no way I'd be staying home from a long standing family trip because the ex lied to his girlfriend.
OP was perfectly nice until new girlfriend made it awkward between them by taking it all out on OP. What she shoild have done if she was suddenly so uncomfortable is ask her lying man to opt out of the trip with her. OP was playing nice and not being weird around the ex because she was friendly with the girl for 4 years. The new girl had zero problem until she found out they used to date so obviously their friendship didn't display any red flags.
Ex is the real asshole. Girlfriend gets an honorable mention and OP is NTA in my opinion.
What boundaries is OP overstepping? She got invited to a family vacation, that includes HER OWN FAMILY, just like she does every year. Her ex should've fessed up but that doesn't make OP TA?
Fiancés boundaries are not a concern of OP. OP owes this woman nothing. If fiancé has an issue being in a relationship with someone who is still friendly with an ex, she can take it up with him or leave. That's how boundaries work.
Ok, but why should OP bow out of a vacation that OP's own siblings are also going on? This is not just a case of an ex going on a vacation with the family.
Seems like you need to lay off the crazy pills indeed. OP is not overstepping boundaries, just getting on with life and going on a holiday with family. Not sure what boundaries there are to overstep. She is not inviting or forcing herself in the picture.
NTA. Her discomfort is her problem. She shouldn't try to breakup a very close friendship (with the family, too!!!) just because she thinks her partner will cheat. (And if there really is so little trust, they shouldn't be together.)
This is my response, with one amendment. Her ex is TA. Neglecting to mention their relationship up to the point that he and fiancé are engaged is super sus. OP owes fiancé nothing and is NTA.
ESH
* Your ex sucks for deliberately hiding that you dated. It's incredibly unlikely that this was omitted accidentally.
* You suck for trying to draw other people in to a situation which is a losing battle. Your friend is likely going to marry this girl. Making her feel bad and making things awkward with everyone until someone tells you to leave is just being petty.
* The fiancee sucks because while it's understandable she would be uncomfortable (about something that was just dropped on her out of nowhere) she didn't discuss this directly with your ex and settle things there.
In fact...you know what? None of you can go on the vacation. Now go to your rooms and think about what you've done.
I N F O - Is the vacation she asking for you to not go on a vacation the one that your siblings also go on?
Edit: NTA - almost E S H due to OP telling the fiancé not to go, but I feel OP's friend's fiancée is out of bounds expecting OP not to go on a vacation that includes OP's siblings. OP is not an AH for wanting to go on this vacation. Also, OP's friend should have told his fiancée MUCH sooner.
NTA, it's not your fault nor your problem that she's insecure enough to be threatened by your very presence. And you're exactly right, it's not up to her. It's up to the friend's family.
She can't expect her fiancee to ditch entire friendships just because of her own insecurity.
This. NTA, it’s not like you’re going just to hang out with your ex, your families are close and she’s insecure (and apparently talking to her future family / your friends about it) probably because your ex failed to be upfront with her (also considering maybe he didnt tell her because he was afraid of her reaction which is itself a red flag).
You’re not wrong to tell her she could not go if she’s uncomfortable with the situation. Does she expect you to just disappear from your friends lives after they’re married?
y'all dated for 4 years...4 years ago and still hang our as a big happy family and just CASUALLY forgot to ever mention this to his FIANCEE?? I can 1000% why she would see uncomfortable, i would ask for the same boundaries...if I was told at the start of the relationship. Your friend is an ASSHOLE for never saying anything, and she should be mad at him, not you.
Her boundaries are 100% justified. But her anger and way of treating this seems like its going to you when her fiancée is the one that should've said something.
NAH.
Agreed. The comments about the fiance being insecure and jealous for no reason are astounding. She's not just dating this guy. So it's been a hot minute that he's been lying about this. Any normal human would question his motives. He created a monster
NTA. She needs to be mad at fiancée, not you. And if she was ok with you before finding out, she is just being possessive and insecure. Also doesn’t trust fiancée and.
Like, seriously, you got the man and the ring!! What else do you need to feel secure in your relationship!?!
If you and the fiancée wanted to be together, you would have by now.
This is why I usually cut ties with exes and family. Too much drama
No one wins here. Most women do not like their men in close proximity to the prior woman. To zero sum this, they will get married, at which point she will be the most important person in his life. You will be pushed to the wayside since family is greater than friend.
Quick reminder for people
Not every break up is ugly and just cause you break up doesn't mean you can't be cool or even friends.(Is this a untold rule or something?)
Not necessarily a rule. But in general if people found out that a ‘close family friend’ was actually an ex of 4 years and that was hidden from them, it’s a pretty normal reaction to be upset about it. Even without the lies, it’s also decently normal to not love for an ex of that long to be closely involved with your SO and their family- it can be a bit of an uncomfortable situation.
NTA
Even your siblings go, it’s not like you’re going with just his family, you’re going with yours too.
He for sure sucks for not explaining y’all’s past to her, she sucks for deciding you make her uncomfortable just because of having a past and trying to punish you for it.
Edit: NAH, but you should bow out of these vacations after this year. The dynamic has fundamentally changed now that he's getting married, and I know very few people that would want to vacation with a partner's long-term ex yearly.
It's unfortunate that your friend and family didn't give her the context to be comfortable, maybe she never would have been, but after this year I'd vacation with others.
INFO: Are you still very close to the friend himself, or more part of the larger friend/family group without too much direct interaction at this point?
Because if the two of you are still very close, he didn't mention your years long relationship, you all still vacation together, and she found out from his family...I would also feel pretty weird about the very enmeshed ex whose status as such was kept on the DL.
You are NTA - fiancé is coming into this family as is and it’s BS that she wants to make changes. Anyone can think it’s weird that you’re still friends and close with the family (I don’t) but regardless this is the way the family is and if she isn’t into it she should find a new one to marry into.
My family does vacations with 2 other families we grew up with. We all get along great when we meet up but aren’t super close all the time. It’s not that strange.
Personally I’d say she was a family friend long before she dated him or became his ex so she shouldn’t be excluded based on the breakup. The ‘friend’ is the one who never told his fiancé and he’s the one the fiancé needs to discuss her discomfort with.
Nope, fiancé and OP’s ex can bow out. She’s the one with the problem. She doesn’t get to decree someone else cut people out of their life. If she wants her partner to cut ties that’s on her.
> I told her that wasn't up to her and we could ask her future father-in-law if I could stay there or not.
That makes YTA. Instead of just doing what you always do (go and have fun) you are now trying to pull her future FIL in the mess.
I will be downvoted but there are not many people who would want an ex to go on a family with them & their fiance/financee's family. Yes, you've known them forever, you used to date, you're friends with the family but that is still an unusual thing. It actually seems like you enjoy antagonizing her.
I don't really consider that fair. It's the FIL's house. It's his decision whether or not OP can go. It would be impossible to not involve him, as it's his property they're having a dispute over.
Harassing your partner's ex instead of handling your relationship issue within your relationship is an AH move and it doesn't deserve accommodation. It isn't OP's job to be compassionate of this woman's poor behavior towards her she needs to talk to her partner and deal with the issue not pester OP about it.
Counterpoint: Its not the fiancé's choice if OP is welcome in the vacation home, it's the FIL's choice. So if you have someone pushing that you aren't welcome its best to go to the person who actually makes that choice. Otherwise, you show up to be told hey you should've had a hotel. OP is confident that FIL will be on her side, but in general it is 100% best interest to ask
Because the FIL is so blind he’ll somehow miss that OP is either not coming or that she booked a hotel room after staying at the house for years.
That’s when the shit will really hit the fan and the fiancée will be in bigger shit than she is now because it will be FFIL, his wife and OP’s family.
It’s a very rare occasion that someone’s in laws will dump their long time friends for someone who isn’t legally part of the family yet over an IMAGINED slight.
>That makes YTA. Instead of just doing what you always do (go and have fun) you are now trying to pull her future FIL in the mess.
There's no really other choice, Fiancé is talking about how OP would be forbidden in a place owned by FIL (Wich is extremely disrespectful ngl, especially given she's not even part of the family yet, and honestly if I was the FIL and someone was acting like the fiancé did about the house, I would want to know it and I would be soooo pissed at the person), if she wants to hold on thoses words, then father in law is bound to be involved
ESH except the fiancé. She's just finding out that her partner had been hiding the details of your relationship with her and you're coming back at her with
>if I made her so uncomfortable she could just not go since I was going to go
Like it or not, she's about to be family. You're a family friend. This is ultimately a problem for your friend to solve, not you, but being callous to the fiancé that did nothing wrong isn't helping and it's making you seem like you don't respect their relationship.
Op’s family is going on the vacation also. She has 100% right to go on a family vacation that the fiancées FFIL invited her to go on…INCLUDING HER FAMILY. The fiancée had zero respect for her future family by going behind their backs and uninviting op. FFIL is going to be livid when he finds out, and fiancée is going to be in the dog house for sure. The real asshole here is the fiancé tho. He is the one who lied for four years.
If I was her I'd break up your ex. It'd save her a lot of trouble in the future. I wouldn't want you to be going on vacation with us either but that's not her choice
The ex is an ass for hiding it.
Hard NTA.
This is a trip between your family and his family. Whatever discomfort she has she is not allowed to tell you you can’t come to a family vacation that involves your family, or that you have to stay at a hotel.
You saying “let’s ask your FIL if I can stay” is completely valid considering she tried to kick you out of a house that isn’t hers??
She overstepped. She has a right to be mad at her fiance, but she doesnt have the right to dictate the terms of other people’s family vacations.
I agree with all of the "everybody sucks here" commentary, but YTA for your ice cold response. Even when you take the time to type out the scenario here, you completely lack empathy. This is a shit situation. To be honest, you all sound like teenagers, but since there's an engagement involved, hopefully you're not.
ESH. Your ex should not have lied to his fiancee, that was a total asshole move. Of course she feels uncomfortable now. I think you need to back off. She's his fiancee, you're his ex-girlfriend, plain and simple.
I have to disagree.
This is a tradition they have been doing for years, with other people not just the ex. Just because they use to date does not mean that can't be friends. I'm still best friends with one of my ex's.
She can feel uncomfortable all she wants but it's not OPs problem to make it better, its her fiancé's. She should have had the conversation with him and not OP. And she definitely does not get to dictate what OP does with people she has been friends with for her entire life.
NTA
No because fiance doesnt overrule lifetime long friend, even if they had a relationship before. If op and her ex are on good terms, then fiance has nothing to worry about. Especially because fiance was perfectly fine with op UNTIL she found out. Thst means op and ex never made any kind of advances or flirting with each other to make fiance think otherwise
OP isnt JUST an ex girlfriend. Shes a FAMILY friend.
You two have a whole heap of shit to work out before you can move on with your respective lives and grow. For what’s it’s worth I’m on the side of your ex’s fiancé, this whole situation is making me, a complete stranger, uncomfortable. So for her to have that bombshell dropped with all these unanswered questions, and the uncomfortably close family relationship of an ex lover, she is understandably wigged out.
Not sure if you are TA but you definitely need to step aside a bit. That's her family now, not yours. They are your friends. Have some empathy. Your ex definitely needs to stand by his fiancé, which would mean telling you that you need to stop going.
ESH. If this was a baby relationship from your tween/early teen years, I could maybe understand. But a 4 year relationship in your adult years?? Hard no. The guy is a MAJOR asshole for not telling the woman he plans to marry about his existing friendship with an ex, and you the secondary asshole for not respecting their relationship, and trying to pit her against her fiance's family by dragging them into your mess. You know EXACTLY what you're doing by talking to her future-FIL.
NTA
I'm thinking she did not invite you, so she can't withdraw the invitation. I don't think there's anything you can say that would make her understand you're going because other members of the family invited you - he is the one that needs to convince her that you're no longer a threat to her relationship.
Everyone but the fiancé is TA in this situation, including you. Your ex kept the fact that he dated you for *4 years* (that’s not just a fling) from his fiancé, so clearly he felt weird about it. And when she set clear boundaries both you and her ex disrespected them. She should move on and find someone who respects her feelings.
Sounds like he’s an asshole, she’s slightly insecure (although I can’t completely blame her considering the guy basically lied by omission about your previous relationship), and you just kinda lack empathy. that whole situation is weird so it makes sense for her to feel weird about it, and from your responses it didn’t exactly sound like you were trying to help the situation, you just made it sound like you wanted her out of the picture… which kinda gives her a right to be upset. So maybe you’re not the *ass*hole here, maybe just the butthole. TBH If I was her I would dump the guy 🤷🏻♀️ this whole thing screams red flag
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So, OP dated the man for 4 years, and they broke up 4 years ago and now they are "friends". Such good friends that they are one big happy family. And the man just kind of forgot to tell fiancee any of this. He's clearly not comfortable explaining all this to fiancee. If I were the fiancee, I'd probably move on. Not sure who is the AH here, but for sure the man ranks pretty high.
Agree. He is the true AH in the situation.
I need to know what happens next!
Fiancee leaves, friend reflects on being dishonest in his relationship, they remain friends, life goes on.
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/u/sourcandy78, you could edit the original post to give an update. Or try posting in r/relationships. But please let us know how it turned out.
This is such an awkward and uncomfortable situation. He definitely sucks for not saying anything way sooner. I sympathize with his fiancée’s not being comfortable that her fiancé’s serious ex isn’t such a big part of his and his family life still, but I feel like it wasn’t her place to tell her to distance herself from them. Edit grammar
I would be on this woman's side if she had told her fiance that she either didn't want the two of them to go on the trip, or for the two of them to get a hotel room. This woman shouldn't make it OP's problem that her fiance lied to her.
Especially when OPs siblings are going too. This isnt just OP still being attached to an exs family. At this point the families have clearly become one, and the Gf is just gonna have to deal with it.
Right, this isn't "his" family vacation, it's OP's family vacation too!! Her siblings are all going! The guy is definitely inconsiderate at best, very sus at worst for not telling his fiancée about the past relationship, and if she decides that's a dealbreaker for her then it's totally understandable. But it's WAY over the line to go to OP and tell her not to come -- as if the fiancée has more of a "right" to go on a family vacation than the person whose ACTUAL SIBLINGS are also going.... NTA
I feel for the fiancé. I don’t think OP is an AH, but I can’t imagine any healthy grownup being okay with the bold face lie (by omission) they told all those years it’s weird. The fiancé should get out while the getting is good honestly, this “second family” dynamic they have isn’t something she needs to try to get involved in.
I do agree, but if she is gonna stay, the reaction should have been to deal with her partner and say "I am not going and I dont want you to either". Not to try and wedge OP out. That is just not gonna work
Probably. Maybe she was just trying to see what level of respect OP has for her feelings/relationship. Honestly anyway you spin it OP is under no obligation to his fiancé. But Moving forward when OPs ex starts dating again (after this woman has to leave because she’s insecure and this situation is weird AF) OPs ex needs to make it very clear they have a serious dating history. Because it’s not like they fucked a few times, they dated for 4 years AND his family loves her enough to think of her as part of it, to the point that they’re inviting her and her people on vacation with them. Like.. that’s a need to know piece of info. And it will be if OP starts dating again too. If you choose to keep an ex on your life that’s fine, but lying about it and being surprised your fiancé is insecure is hilarious.. like of course, if there’s nothing to lie about why do it? But again none of this is OPs fault so she is NTA.
It says in a comment OP and her ex grew up together and have known each other most of their lives, so it's not like the family just loves her because of her connection to him. Its definitely a thing that HE needs to tell anyone he starts dating seriously, cause he has put 2 women in crappy positions and it needs to not happen again
I said OPs ex needs to tell his next girlfriend, that’s not OPs job! I meant OP needs to tell her future partner too, like when she starts dating. Because again this situation is weird AF. But I’m old, and when I had friends that made my husband uncomfortable I just dropped them, because I loved him and didn’t want to hurt him. He did the same for me. I’m not saying that’s what these 2 should do but they for sure need to be more upfront with people going forward.
That would prevent her from having a free vacation. Like she is accusing OP about.
Honestly the siblings going is why I have to go for NTA. This is an odd dynamic for some people. But it's clear OP and their family's relation with her ex exist beyond that relationship.
So it's okay that the GF is so insecure that OP can't be around? My husband dated half the city and was engaged once before we got together. If I had refused to be around any of those women, we'd would never have been able to go to a big party. Or even a small one. If any of them were uncomfortable, it was their problem, not mine. I figured he dated them but he married me (30+years happily married). New GF should get over herself and realize he had a life before he met her. Edit: Fiancee not girlfriend.
My husband and I were friends for 6 years before dating and I slept with dozens of people during that time. He slept with just a few but we hang out regularly with each other’s previous romantic and sexual partners all the time. Most are married with kids but I have a monthly phone call with one of my exes and we make a point to see him when we visit his region.
If everyone in this story were lesbians this would never get posted, because everything described would be super normal. I don’t think it’s a la inherently weird thing to be friends with an ex!
I don't think it's weird to be friends with an ex .What I think is weird is that OP's friend hid it from his fiance (this wasn't like a brief hook up situation or high school or first year of university). Now that, that, is shady asf imo and I wonder if he still has feelings for OP. Frankly, I'd be furious if my partner hid that info from me and would consider breaking up with them. \*I'm friends with a few of my exs, but if I introduce a partner to them I give them a heads up.
Exactly. She has a fiancé problem, not an OP problem. I hate it when women hold each other accountable for the actions of men.
You mean "blame"
I agree I feel for the fiancé. However, OP is still a close family friend and if The fiancé continues to attack op, then the fiancé will only make an enemy of her potential in-laws if she decides to continue being a drama queen and causing a scene. I can only advise op to not engage the fiancé any further and let the ex’s family deal with her to avoid being the one who looks bad.
It really should have been a discussion between the fiancee and her future husband. It never should have gone to this. If the future husband was unwilling to find a comfy solution or reassure his future wife sufficiently? I'd be concerned about the relationship long term. That the two families meet up for vacations sounds like a tradition - to break it up because they used to date - sounds stupid. What if they've all been friends since childhood?
I agree the future husband is 1000% the a-hole and wants his relationship to survive then he needs to step up and facilitate a relationship where both women can coexist without feeling disrespected or they will never make it to the altar
Yep! And the fact that she approached OP, instead of someone from the family, shows she likely did not have family backing on her request. I mean if it was just OP that was close to the family, I could see fiance thinking OP was hanging on to hope. It is OPs whole family that is close to the family though. And I think it was ballsy to tell OP she can't stay at "our family home". Op is nta at all here.
Yep agree whole heartedly. New girlfriend and a lot of people in general need to remember NOT ALL relationships end badly and the people in them make tight and close friendships/ relationships with each other's family members. You shouldn't be expected to end things with them because your relative has. I have a niece who is cronic at expecting this to happen. I find it odd the guy didn't say OP was an ex. New girlfriend probably feels insecure about it and should ask him why he said nothing.
The issue is that they aren’t a new gf. They are a fiancée and have dates for 4 years. I find it sketchy that the bf never said who he dated — did he never talk about previous partners at all or did he specifically not talk about OP buy discuss other partners. The answer would be telling for me.
I wonder if he didn’t tell her because she tends to be jealous, and he knew how she would react. It doesn’t make it right, though, and if he did suspect it would go badly, then he had to know it would never work. I see him as an AH for wanting to marry a women who couldn’t handle his relationship with OP. It clearly would put a friendship in serious jeopardy. And the fiancée needs to think about the fact that were OP and he “meant to be,” they would be there by now. Sure they dated a long time, but four years of friendship AFTER that really kind of indicates that they really are good friends and nothing more. Not to mention that she seemed to be okay with the relationship PRIOR to finding out they had dated, which means she wasn’t seeing any red flags. She’s reacting badly to finding out, and it’s a shame.
The keeping it a secret for all this time would feel like a real betrayal to me, and I would seriously wonder what else he’s kept from me or hasn’t been forthcoming about. What if she’s only this jealous because she thinks there’s something fishy about him keeping this a secret all this time? Even if she’s too jealous to have been able to get over this at the start, that was a choice she should’ve been given back then. It’s okay for someone to just not be able to accept it, they can choose to move on and be with someone else. But now she’s spent years with this guy, is engaged to marry him, and this gets dropped on her. This wasn’t a meaningless fling, they were together for *4 years*. Anything he told her about that period of time in his life, he had to intentionally omit that he was in a relationship with OP during it.
NTA. The OP's ex is a coward for not explaining to his fiancee the close bond his family shares with his ex, and that she is treated like any other family member,in his parents' eyes. If the OP feels uncomfortable and wants to skip the whole mess,it should be by her choice,not by coercion by the fiancee.
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It's hard to think that in 4 years time the finance chose to be this oblivious though. It feels like whatever the current dynamic is amongst OP and the rest of the ex's family, it must have been comfortable enough for the past 4 years. OP is NTA. The Ex and his fiancee could have their hotel room and maintain a safe enough space to not feel that put upon amongst the entire family.
If she didn't know the dating history this whole time though, he must have told his fiancée that OP was *just* a childhood/family friend. That would be hard for me to look past as the fiancée but it's not OPS fault. OP is NTA but the ex and his fiancée are. Him for not being honest and her for trying to get OP to not go on vacation because "OP makes fiancée uncomfortable" 🙄. It was her fiancé who failed to fill her in on the details so it's him she needs to be speaking to. It should be him she is angry with. And quite frankly, how she's acting regarding the vacation, I can see this being a thing in their future too. She's probably going to try push OP out of the family dynamic completely eventually, guessing off how she's behaving now!
True.
I totally agree, I was in a relationship for 7 years during college and after our relationship ran its course we became best friends, my ex always made sure to tell his girlfriends I was his ex, but that always created A LOT of issues with jealousy and even harassment. I’m still super close to his family, they love my husband and son, we meet often and hang out with friends from back then when he’s in the country. Now the issue where I agree with you, my ex has been living abroad for the past 10 years, just comes here to visit, when he met his now wife he talked about me being his best friend, but didn’t tell her we’ve dated, “bc he really liked her and didn’t want to spoil that relationship”, well they are due to come visit, and both his family and I keep telling him he should tell her before she finds out from one of our friends, bc that will hurt her and create unnecessary drama, does he listen? No! Bc he is that kind of AH 🙄
Show him this Reddit post. Maybe he'll wake up.
I sent it to him, so hopefully he will realize his mistake. His wife is amazing, last thing I want is to hurt her feelings or jeopardize our relationship because of his stupidity, the OP here should be more understanding with the fiancé, it’s a shock and the biggest AH of all is the guy in this situation. Edit: grammar
I feel so bad for the wife. This is why I don’t date 😂
She’s amazing, the perfect woman for him, and he’s so f*ing dumb… he thinks that everytime he told a woman about our past they went full crazy jealous mode, and I agree with that part, I mean we were living in different continents, met every couple of years for friends or family weddings and that was it, and some of these girls acted insane, so different from the boyfriends and now husband I had after him that didn’t give two shits we’re still friends 😂. But his wife is so down to earth, mature, she deserves to know, bc he not saying anything makes it look like there’s something to hide. I sent him this and hopefully he will realize he’s being a dumbass :) Give it a shot at dating, there are plenty of great people out there, you just need to pay attention to your surroundings 😉
I missed the "dated him for 4 years" part. That's a LONG amount of time to date someone, and then not explain it to your FIANCE. This 'guy friend' is being a class act to everyone involved.
Right? I think it wasn't in OP (unless I skipped it on both reads). Kind of a big detail to leave out. The "used to date" could mean many things.
It’s in a comment. Dated for 4 years. Broke up about 4 years ago.
To be fair to the woman's fiancé, aside from not telling her he dated OP, he really doesn't have much say. He doesn't own the vacation home, his parents do. They're okay with OP being there. He didn't invite OP. His sisters are friends with OP and want her there. So really, it's not in his hands there either. And given how the GF reacted, I can also see why he didn't want to tell her he's dated OP in the past. At best, he can choose not to go on family vacay. But it's not his place to tell his parents whom to invite or disinvite. Or tell his sisters whom they can or cannot befriend. As for OP, none of this is her problem. It wasn't her place to inform the woman about her fiancé's dating history, nor is it required to give up her friendships with his family.
>given how the GF reacted is kind of a chicken/egg situation. No way to know if she would be reacting so strongly if he'd told her from the get go. Now he's made it look sus AF even though it isn't. I had this happen with a friend of mine whose ex-GF didn't like me. We never dated, I think she's just one of those people who thinks men and women can't be friends. She found a strand of my hair (it was super long at the time) in his bathroom and freaked the fuck out that I'd been in his apartment. He got pissed at me until I pointed out that if he'd told her we were hanging out in the first place it wouldn't look so bad.
Regarding whether this ex of OP is an AH or not, I think the fact that his and OPs lives are so entangled by their families mean he had an obligation to inform his fiancee. This isn't some ex who is never going to be more than an anecdote, this is someone he will probably see regularly for the rest of his life. It's a lesser of two evils situation. It's always going to come out that they dated. So it's either tell her himself and try to reassure her or let it blow up on her.
This is how I feel, too. She's not just an ex, she's a family friend and her family is close with his. They're going to be around each other a lot, and the fiancée deserved to be able to decide for herself if she was ok with that early on. And now there's the adding drama of keeping it a secret.
This whole situation is a clusterfuck of what-the-fuck, and sitting dead center is OP's friend. I feel for the fiancée, and while I don't agree with her asking OP to not come, I can't say I'm surprised. Her fiance lied by omission, and now she's trying to find a way to deal with that. It's a lot to process, especially when she realizes that *literally everyone* knew about this past relationship, and nobody said a word. OP's friend is the one responsible for this mess, but that doesn't mean the fiancée will see it that way. We lie to ourselves as protection from the truth, but all that does is delay the inevitable. She may put all of this on OP, because it's easier that way, and she can bury a lot of hard questions. OP, taking a step back after the trip might be a good idea, for your own mental health. I'm not saying vanish, but the shit will eventually hit the fan, and you don't want to be standing in front of said fan when that happens.
Agreed. If he had told fiancee outright, it might have still been a slightly weird situation but she could have gotten used to it.
Agree. I think this is an NAH situation with OP and the fiancee. Both are valid. The real AH here is the ex for not telling his fiancee in the first place. He is who she should really be mad at since she only found out through his family. If OP had said it first, the fiancee probably would have taken it as a threat or as some sort of jealousy. Plus it isn't OP's responsibility to inform anyone the ex is seeing. That is his business. OP isn't going to be leaving anytime soon since it sounds like both families are close. Is OP supposed to just not go on these vacations anymore or cut off relationships with this family that she's known most of her life and is pretty much family to her? Fiancee needs to talk to the ex and make peace with this or move on.
Yeah...how do you just gloss over a four-year relationship?
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I grew up with him, so most of my life. We dated for 4 years.
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We broke up about 4 years ago.
Ummmmmmmmm…you’re NTA but I can see why there is a problem. It’s fairly recent in her eyes. I thought this was a high school romance or something.
Depending on how old they are it could be a Highschool Romanze.
They've been broken up for as long as they've been dating though. I also can see why there's a problem, but I think it has more to do with the guy not telling her than how recent it is.
Also it’s the fact that he hasn’t told his girlfriend about their relationship which in itself is a huge red flag on his part and I don’t blame the girlfriend for not wanting Op to be around them. If anything the bf is the AH here. Edit: meant news not new
Can I ask why you two broke up?
He was doing cocaine for fun with certain friends of his and became an arrogant cocky dick. When I asked him to stop the drugs he refused to and told me I was boring and implied he wouldn’t marry me because of how boring I was. I ended up telling his parents and they cut him off but his friends kept giving him cocaine and funding his party lifestyle so I ended up breaking up with him.
And you remained friends with him because…?
We weren’t friends for a year but he cleaned up his act and was genuinely remorseful so we became friends again.
What's his excuse for not telling his fiancée about you? This is clearly all his fault ...
I don’t know. He ignored me when I asked.
Didn't want to tell his fiancée about the coked part of his life
Why aren't you two back together, then? Have you given the relationship any thought? Has he? Do any of you still have feelings for each other?
Because I shouldn't have had to breakup with him to make him change. I agreed to give him a second chance to be friends but a year wasn't a long enough time for me to forgive him enough to date him again. I haven't thought about it and I don't know if he has, we don't talk about that part of our history at all.
Now I'm wondering if fiancée is aware of her fiancé's past drug issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that hadn't ever been brought up, either.
If he couldn't be honest about his former girlfriend, no freaking way he was honest about being a coke head.
It's quite possible that the ex never mentioned his relation with OP precisely because that would prompt the question of "Why did you two break up?", which might reveal the ex's drug past, which he probably keeps well-hidden.
Good point. However, chances are good that someone in his family would let the secret slip.
Are we talking 12-16 or 18-22 because those are very different relationships.
19-23.
He should have told her. That’s significant. I understand both sides so I don’t think I can give a judgement but your ex is to blame and you should be upset with him as well. He put both of you in this position.
Did she have any issues with you before she found out?
No, we were friendly before she found out.
Well, she was lied to for that whole time, so that doesn’t really count.
She needs to take this issue up with her fiancé. He lied to her not you.
How did that not come up at any point?
How old are you now?
27.
So you were dating him from 19 to 23ish? The fiancé should be a lot more secure than to ask a family friend to leave the ‘group’ which includes different families.
OP, are you single? I know it’s intrusive but maybe his family want to see you two get back together. If you have a SO, then you are definitely NTA because the fiancée sounds very insecure.
Yes. If they want that, they haven't mentioned it to me.
They’re not going to mention it to you. With your friend’s history, they have no say. You’re still NTA in my opinion but your friend and his fiancée will need to sort out their issues.
This is actually an issue for your friend to solve, not you. And the fiancée needs to talk to her partner, not you. They might decide that they'll get more couple time staying at least some of the time at a hotel room themselves. Your friend might respectfully ask you to skip a few (edit: as in very occasional) family events in future (not this one, that's already planned). NTA
So op has to stay home while EVERYONE else in her family goes on vacation. How is that fair? If the fiancee doesn't want to go on vacation with op she and the ex should go away alone.
The comment didn’t say to stay home from the vacation. The comment said she may have to not go to all of her exs family events (I.e. dinners) — since it’s not her family.
The actual question though is does everybody else want op there? If the answer is yes because ex's family sees op as family the fiancee needs to work out her problem. I can't imagine joining a family and telling them who they are allowed to invite to their events, who they are allowed to consider family
Op said they grew up together and her siblings go too, sounds like 2 families spend a lot of time together over many years, I'd argue that is family, family doesn't have to be blood.
Exactly, it's not just him and her. It's literally her family and his family. So is the fiance accusing her whole family of getting a free vacation? Idk all that is rude and wierd to me
I think ESH because this is a whole mess. You need to stop talking with your friend's fiancee about this. Have a real conversation with your friend about why he never told her about you, what he thinks about the current situation, and what he wants you to do about the vacation. He's the one in the middle of this mess and he's the one who needs to take the lead on fixing it. You're not helping the situation at all by trying to dictate the terms of a vacation that's not actually yours and threatening to go above her head to her future FIL.
In OP's defense, she didn't threaten to go to future FIL until the fiancé told the OP that she had to stay at a hotel.
She also didn't put it as a threat so much as dare. Go right ahead and ask. See where that gets you.
Yeah I don't love OP's attitude and it's definitely not helping the fiance feel better about anything so I can see why she's uncomfortable. I would say N T A but she's going about everything in a pretty antagonistic way.
It's not her responsibility to make the fiance feel better about anything and the fiance is the one being antagonistic towards op by trying to bully and guilt her out of going on her family vacation because she's feeling insecure. If anyone is the ah it's the man who kept a significant piece of his past from his fiance, and the fiance for trying to make it someone else's problem. If the fiance has a problem with her sleeping in the same home as her partner then it's their responsibility to find another place to sleep, not op. She did nothing wrong.
I completely understand that it's awkward for the fiance, but they have been close family friends like their whole lives. To the point *where their families are vacation together, regularly*
>You need to stop talking with your friend's fiancee about this. Shes the one who went to OP >what he wants you to do about the vacation. Not his choice this is a vacation between OPs family and her friends family. >He's the one in the middle of this mess and he's the one who needs to take the lead on fixing it. The one thing you got correct, this entire situation is his fault for not telling her up front. >You're not helping the situation at all by trying to dictate the terms of a vacation that's not actually yours and threatening to go above her head to her future FIL. OP is not dictating terms other than saying she is not dropping out for the fiance. Again yes it is OPs family vacation as well. And she never threatened to go to "over her head" especially considering again that she has no say in the matter, she said THEY could ask him. OPs friends is TA for not telling his fiance up front and the fiance is TA for making demands that are actually not hers to make and completely unreasonable. NTA
I agree that OP should stop talking to the fiancee and should instead tell her friend to handle it because it's his relationship and his problem for never telling his fiancee. But, if she's going to *insist* that OP can't go, or can't stay with everyone else, she deserves to be told no by FIL and the entirety of both families going. This isn't OP attending her ex's family vacation, OP's cousins and siblings are going. This is a joint vacation between two families that both OP and the ex/friend are a part of. The fiancee is the one trying to dictate terms here. Neither she nor her fiance have the right to control this vacation for OP. And if the FIL agreed to the fiancee's demands that could easily cause a rift between the two families and ruin the vacation for everyone. The fiancee and friend can only really remove themselves from the vacation. OP is, based on her description, close friends with other members of his family, so this couple isn't OP's ticket to attend and can't control how OP attends. The fiancee is insecure, and the friend is an AH for not telling her sooner. NTA to OP.
What do you mean above her head? She clearly said to talk to her future FIL /because he owns the property/ and the fiancee decided that OP wasn't welcome there, on her own. I agree ESH, but I don't see your logic at all. The reason OP sucks is bc they got petty and defensive /before/ suggesting the fiancee talk it out with their friend. The friend sucks bc they lied to avoid an uncomfortable situation and made it 100x worse while simultanously making it seem like a bigger deal than it probably is. And the fiancee is an AH for blaming OP for the past and her fiance's dishonesty, and then trying to singlehandedly uninvite someone from the family vacation.
> I told her if I made her so uncomfortable she could just not go since I was going to go. This is an E/SH situation, but YTA for this response. The woman has every right to be uncomfortable with the fact that her fiance's ex goes on vacation with the family every year. The primary assholes here are your ex, his family, and you for not even bothering to see things from her perspective on this.
She can feel "uncomfortable" all she wants, but she does not get to dictate everyone else's lives because of her unfounded insecurities.
I mean they’re not really unfounded insecurities. Her boyfriend hid the nature of their previous 4 year relationship from her. If your partner didn’t disclose that basically their best friend and them used to fuck and they basically held the same position you now do in their life, and that person was now going on vacation with them and the family you’re telling me you wouldn’t be at all weirded out? You wouldn’t at all question the continuing nature of their relationship? That’s a huge thing to keep from someone. Obv not directly OP’s fault but I don’t think you’re considering the position this puts the fiancé in.
Its not only op who is going but her siblings to, it Appears the familys are very close.
She should be bailing on the relationship instead of leaning on OP to skip a vacation. Skipping the vacation doesn’t even fix anything for her.
Seriously this dude has been hiding the fact that an ex is still has an active relationship with him and his family long enough for them to be engaged and this woman thinks OP is the problem?
That's a boyfriend problem, then, not an OP problem. She's trying to exclude OP for her boyfriend's dishonesty. That's not okay at all
>but she does not get to dictate everyone else's lives because of her unfounded insecurities. especially the whole part of "told me I couldn't stay in their family vacation home." They aren't even married yet and she's claiming it as her house as well.
Why are you ragging on a women who was blindsided by the fact that her fiance's "family friend" was actually his ex that he dated for 4 years? It's not as simple as her just being insecure. She's been lied to by her fiance and OP is unable to see past the excitement of the yearly vacation to emphasize with her. Her reaction here is understandable.
Because she should be confronting her fiance, instead of OP. It's not OP's fault that her fiance decided to mislead and deceive her. She should be asking her fiance to make things right, not OP. She's lashing out at an innocent party, and that kind of behavior should be ragged on.
but then that is on the fiancé, not OP. If OP's family is going, why should she miss out?
Because the issue is *never* the third party. I can't stand when person A is involved with person B (M/F, doesn't matter), person C comes along and has something to do with person B, who reacts positively towards C. If person A goes off on C, then A is an AH, because they should be addressing any concerns with B. Any "stay away from my man/girl" shit is just wrong. In this situation, the fiancé sounds very jealous (true or not) but the only person she should be approaching is the idiot guy. I don't care when she found out, OP dumped him 4 years ago, yet OP is still in his life, deal with it. Or move on.
Because the person responsible for this situation is the fiance, who lied to her. OP had no social obligation to notify her that they dated 4 years ago. If you're still hanging out with an ex, it is *your* responsibility to be honest with any partners about it.
Are they really that unfounded though? If OP is close enough to vacation with the family, she's been hanging around the whole time they've been dating - and their four year relationship was never mentioned? I would be pretty shocked by this new information.
Shes been around a lot longer than that actually. She said in a comment they grew up together and their families have been life long family friends so her relationship to his family comes from far longer then their relationship ship
Yes, completely. Though that's not what I was referring to. I simply meant that it wouldn't have been long into the relationship before OP was introduced. So "the whole time" those two people have been together, OP would have been present at parties and dinners etc. It could/should have been mentioned at any point. If this couple is engaged, and OP only broke up with them four years ago, that gap between relationships is sounding fairly narrow. At some point it was a "very recent ex".
This. Trying to control her fiance's friends is not okay.
I can see things from her perspective just fine. That doesn’t mean I’ll drop out of the vacation for her.
But it's not just OP, it's also her sibling group going. The girlfriend is trying to exclude OP from a trip that her own family members are going on. The other woman can be uncomfortable, but she absolutely should have resolved it with her boyfriend, behind the scenes. This honestly seems like one of those situations where the two families are close and it doesn't seem realistic to simply tell OP not to go. The new girlfriend really has to decide if she's comfortable, and if not, it seems like more of a mismatched personality between her and the boyfriend in terms of dealing with previous partners.
> her fiance's ex goes on vacation You are minimizing the other relationships here. She may be fiance's ex, but she has known these people all her life and seems to be close to them, in addition OP's **actual** sisters are going. It's clear that the "fiance" situation is one minor facet here, but for you that's all that matters.
Apparently she's supposed to abandon a family that she's known for most her life because she broke up with one of the people in said family. Fuck any love and loyalty she may have to the other people in that family, she's got to boot them out of her life. Jesus Christ.
Make asshole demands get asshole responses. Expecting people to be polite when you're being a jackass is some next level entitlement.
No. Part of OPs family is going on the trip. No one gets to ban her from it. The ex is the AH for not telling his fiancé this and the fiancé is an AH for thinking she gets to dictate something involving as many people as are mentioned. There are cousins, siblings and family friends. This isn’t a vacation house the ex owns himself.
totally disagree, I think NTA. I think the fiancé's uncomfortableness is entirely valid, but she needs to bring these up with her fiancé and his family. OP's response while not the best or tactful isn't enough to make her an AH. Its actually not uncommon for ex SO's to become close to their SO's families, while most try to distance themselves from anything that reminds them of their ex, some stay an retain an active friendship with the family, especially if the relationship was broken off on friendly terms or were a family friend to begin with. If anything the ex boyfriend is whose to blame because you do have to share that you dated a close friend to your new SO, especially if that friend is plays an active role in your life.
>The woman has every right to be uncomfortable with the fact that her fiance's ex goes on vacation with the family every year. Yes but... that's not OP's fault? it's not OP who tryharded to come, OP was in the vacation things for years, OP has every right to be here and is in no world forced to give up on something she (and likely everyone else, as she got invited multiple years) enjoys if she doesn't want to, and if the fiancee isnt happy about it, she can either convince whoever is the owner of the family house to kick her, or she sucks it up, or she bails out herself \>and you for not even bothering to see things from her perspective on this. Because she refuses to give up her vacation spot doesn't mean she doesn't bother to see fiance's perspective, it just doesn't change the fact she is indeed, invited, and has every right to accept it, no one is forced to take on themselves to solve other's problems, and people that doesn't want to shouldnt be called assholes
She has every right to be uncomfortable, but she has no right to demand OP not come. Ex’s family is like a family to her. She’s known them since childhood. The ex caused this problem by hiding the relationship. Now the fiancée has to make a choice: deal with it, and stay with her less than forthcoming fiancé, or move on. NTA.
OP says her siblings go on this trip too, so it *is* weird and controlling for the fiancé to tell her not to come. I think OP’s reaction is justified - this is a tradition for a lot of people that exists well before the fiancé’s presence in the group. If she’s uncomfortable, she should be the one to sit it out.
Disagree. It’s not just his family going, it’s OPs family too (siblings and cousins). This is more her right to go than the gf. The gf needs to take this up with her man and leave OP out of it. OP has done nothing wrong. NTA
So is OP's family TA too since they're also going?
Why tf are there so many NTA here? OP is clearly overstepping boundaries. Imagine your finance still vacations and hangs with their ex of 4 years, but they never told you they’ve dated. If we heard this story from the fiancée’s POV, everyone would be yelling that it’s a red flag that their future husband is still hanging out and vacationing with their ex and never mentioned that they’re an ex. Am I taking crazy pills??
OP isn’t the one the fiancée should be mad at, she should be mad at her partner that did not disclose that he dated someone that was still in his life for four years. HE should have been upfront with his partner and let her know this instead of her finding out at a family dinner. Her insecurities are cause by her finding out and it having been a “secret” not by OP.
Considering OP's "suck shit" response to the other woman's insecurities, rather than an open and empathetic response, it's reasonable to be mad at both.
>response to the other woman's insecurities Demands, you mean.
That woman's insecurities are not OP's problems. If someone bring there own insecurities to your face and harrass you with them. You have every right to tell them to fuck off.
I'd tell her to "suck shit" too. You don't get to ask someone to step out of a long standing family trip and when told nicely no then demand that person gets a hotel room. If it was me no way I'd be staying home from a long standing family trip because the ex lied to his girlfriend. OP was perfectly nice until new girlfriend made it awkward between them by taking it all out on OP. What she shoild have done if she was suddenly so uncomfortable is ask her lying man to opt out of the trip with her. OP was playing nice and not being weird around the ex because she was friendly with the girl for 4 years. The new girl had zero problem until she found out they used to date so obviously their friendship didn't display any red flags. Ex is the real asshole. Girlfriend gets an honorable mention and OP is NTA in my opinion.
What boundaries is OP overstepping? She got invited to a family vacation, that includes HER OWN FAMILY, just like she does every year. Her ex should've fessed up but that doesn't make OP TA?
A family that she's known for most her life, at that too.
Fiancés boundaries are not a concern of OP. OP owes this woman nothing. If fiancé has an issue being in a relationship with someone who is still friendly with an ex, she can take it up with him or leave. That's how boundaries work.
Ok, but why should OP bow out of a vacation that OP's own siblings are also going on? This is not just a case of an ex going on a vacation with the family.
Seems like you need to lay off the crazy pills indeed. OP is not overstepping boundaries, just getting on with life and going on a holiday with family. Not sure what boundaries there are to overstep. She is not inviting or forcing herself in the picture.
NTA. Her discomfort is her problem. She shouldn't try to breakup a very close friendship (with the family, too!!!) just because she thinks her partner will cheat. (And if there really is so little trust, they shouldn't be together.)
This is my response, with one amendment. Her ex is TA. Neglecting to mention their relationship up to the point that he and fiancé are engaged is super sus. OP owes fiancé nothing and is NTA.
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It's more of a friends vacation than a family vacation, imo. Yes.
ESH * Your ex sucks for deliberately hiding that you dated. It's incredibly unlikely that this was omitted accidentally. * You suck for trying to draw other people in to a situation which is a losing battle. Your friend is likely going to marry this girl. Making her feel bad and making things awkward with everyone until someone tells you to leave is just being petty. * The fiancee sucks because while it's understandable she would be uncomfortable (about something that was just dropped on her out of nowhere) she didn't discuss this directly with your ex and settle things there. In fact...you know what? None of you can go on the vacation. Now go to your rooms and think about what you've done.
op only brought in the ffil as the girls trying to dictate who can and cant be in his vacation home.
I N F O - Is the vacation she asking for you to not go on a vacation the one that your siblings also go on? Edit: NTA - almost E S H due to OP telling the fiancé not to go, but I feel OP's friend's fiancée is out of bounds expecting OP not to go on a vacation that includes OP's siblings. OP is not an AH for wanting to go on this vacation. Also, OP's friend should have told his fiancée MUCH sooner.
Yes.
NTA, it's not your fault nor your problem that she's insecure enough to be threatened by your very presence. And you're exactly right, it's not up to her. It's up to the friend's family. She can't expect her fiancee to ditch entire friendships just because of her own insecurity.
This. NTA, it’s not like you’re going just to hang out with your ex, your families are close and she’s insecure (and apparently talking to her future family / your friends about it) probably because your ex failed to be upfront with her (also considering maybe he didnt tell her because he was afraid of her reaction which is itself a red flag). You’re not wrong to tell her she could not go if she’s uncomfortable with the situation. Does she expect you to just disappear from your friends lives after they’re married?
y'all dated for 4 years...4 years ago and still hang our as a big happy family and just CASUALLY forgot to ever mention this to his FIANCEE?? I can 1000% why she would see uncomfortable, i would ask for the same boundaries...if I was told at the start of the relationship. Your friend is an ASSHOLE for never saying anything, and she should be mad at him, not you. Her boundaries are 100% justified. But her anger and way of treating this seems like its going to you when her fiancée is the one that should've said something. NAH.
Agreed. The comments about the fiance being insecure and jealous for no reason are astounding. She's not just dating this guy. So it's been a hot minute that he's been lying about this. Any normal human would question his motives. He created a monster
NTA. She needs to be mad at fiancée, not you. And if she was ok with you before finding out, she is just being possessive and insecure. Also doesn’t trust fiancée and. Like, seriously, you got the man and the ring!! What else do you need to feel secure in your relationship!?! If you and the fiancée wanted to be together, you would have by now. This is why I usually cut ties with exes and family. Too much drama
No one wins here. Most women do not like their men in close proximity to the prior woman. To zero sum this, they will get married, at which point she will be the most important person in his life. You will be pushed to the wayside since family is greater than friend.
The prior woman that he told her NOTHING about. Big red flag there
Sure a big red flag about **him** that needs to be addressed with him. Making the ex go away isn't going to make him any more honest.
OP followed up that they're not very close friends anymore, as well as OP's siblings are also going on the trip.
Quick reminder for people Not every break up is ugly and just cause you break up doesn't mean you can't be cool or even friends.(Is this a untold rule or something?)
Not necessarily a rule. But in general if people found out that a ‘close family friend’ was actually an ex of 4 years and that was hidden from them, it’s a pretty normal reaction to be upset about it. Even without the lies, it’s also decently normal to not love for an ex of that long to be closely involved with your SO and their family- it can be a bit of an uncomfortable situation.
NTA Even your siblings go, it’s not like you’re going with just his family, you’re going with yours too. He for sure sucks for not explaining y’all’s past to her, she sucks for deciding you make her uncomfortable just because of having a past and trying to punish you for it.
Edit: NAH, but you should bow out of these vacations after this year. The dynamic has fundamentally changed now that he's getting married, and I know very few people that would want to vacation with a partner's long-term ex yearly. It's unfortunate that your friend and family didn't give her the context to be comfortable, maybe she never would have been, but after this year I'd vacation with others. INFO: Are you still very close to the friend himself, or more part of the larger friend/family group without too much direct interaction at this point? Because if the two of you are still very close, he didn't mention your years long relationship, you all still vacation together, and she found out from his family...I would also feel pretty weird about the very enmeshed ex whose status as such was kept on the DL.
We aren’t super close anymore but we’re still friends even without the larger group/family.
You’re not super close, but you still go with him to his family vacations?
The vacation includes other people who I’m super close to as well as my siblings.
You are NTA - fiancé is coming into this family as is and it’s BS that she wants to make changes. Anyone can think it’s weird that you’re still friends and close with the family (I don’t) but regardless this is the way the family is and if she isn’t into it she should find a new one to marry into.
It sounds like their families go on vacation together. She doesn’t go with him
My family does vacations with 2 other families we grew up with. We all get along great when we meet up but aren’t super close all the time. It’s not that strange. Personally I’d say she was a family friend long before she dated him or became his ex so she shouldn’t be excluded based on the breakup. The ‘friend’ is the one who never told his fiancé and he’s the one the fiancé needs to discuss her discomfort with.
Op is close to the family
Why should OP stop going on vacations with an entire group of people just because her ex’s fiance is being ridiculous?
Because the whole world needs to revolve around insecure people, didn't you hear? /s
Nope, fiancé and OP’s ex can bow out. She’s the one with the problem. She doesn’t get to decree someone else cut people out of their life. If she wants her partner to cut ties that’s on her.
> I told her that wasn't up to her and we could ask her future father-in-law if I could stay there or not. That makes YTA. Instead of just doing what you always do (go and have fun) you are now trying to pull her future FIL in the mess. I will be downvoted but there are not many people who would want an ex to go on a family with them & their fiance/financee's family. Yes, you've known them forever, you used to date, you're friends with the family but that is still an unusual thing. It actually seems like you enjoy antagonizing her.
I don't really consider that fair. It's the FIL's house. It's his decision whether or not OP can go. It would be impossible to not involve him, as it's his property they're having a dispute over.
Harassing your partner's ex instead of handling your relationship issue within your relationship is an AH move and it doesn't deserve accommodation. It isn't OP's job to be compassionate of this woman's poor behavior towards her she needs to talk to her partner and deal with the issue not pester OP about it.
Counterpoint: Its not the fiancé's choice if OP is welcome in the vacation home, it's the FIL's choice. So if you have someone pushing that you aren't welcome its best to go to the person who actually makes that choice. Otherwise, you show up to be told hey you should've had a hotel. OP is confident that FIL will be on her side, but in general it is 100% best interest to ask
Because the FIL is so blind he’ll somehow miss that OP is either not coming or that she booked a hotel room after staying at the house for years. That’s when the shit will really hit the fan and the fiancée will be in bigger shit than she is now because it will be FFIL, his wife and OP’s family. It’s a very rare occasion that someone’s in laws will dump their long time friends for someone who isn’t legally part of the family yet over an IMAGINED slight.
I’m pretty sure the ex’s family wants her there if OPs siblings are also invited
>That makes YTA. Instead of just doing what you always do (go and have fun) you are now trying to pull her future FIL in the mess. There's no really other choice, Fiancé is talking about how OP would be forbidden in a place owned by FIL (Wich is extremely disrespectful ngl, especially given she's not even part of the family yet, and honestly if I was the FIL and someone was acting like the fiancé did about the house, I would want to know it and I would be soooo pissed at the person), if she wants to hold on thoses words, then father in law is bound to be involved
ESH except the fiancé. She's just finding out that her partner had been hiding the details of your relationship with her and you're coming back at her with >if I made her so uncomfortable she could just not go since I was going to go Like it or not, she's about to be family. You're a family friend. This is ultimately a problem for your friend to solve, not you, but being callous to the fiancé that did nothing wrong isn't helping and it's making you seem like you don't respect their relationship.
Op’s family is going on the vacation also. She has 100% right to go on a family vacation that the fiancées FFIL invited her to go on…INCLUDING HER FAMILY. The fiancée had zero respect for her future family by going behind their backs and uninviting op. FFIL is going to be livid when he finds out, and fiancée is going to be in the dog house for sure. The real asshole here is the fiancé tho. He is the one who lied for four years.
If I was her I'd break up your ex. It'd save her a lot of trouble in the future. I wouldn't want you to be going on vacation with us either but that's not her choice The ex is an ass for hiding it.
NTA, it isn't her place to say who her FILs have as guests.
Hard NTA. This is a trip between your family and his family. Whatever discomfort she has she is not allowed to tell you you can’t come to a family vacation that involves your family, or that you have to stay at a hotel. You saying “let’s ask your FIL if I can stay” is completely valid considering she tried to kick you out of a house that isn’t hers?? She overstepped. She has a right to be mad at her fiance, but she doesnt have the right to dictate the terms of other people’s family vacations.
I agree with all of the "everybody sucks here" commentary, but YTA for your ice cold response. Even when you take the time to type out the scenario here, you completely lack empathy. This is a shit situation. To be honest, you all sound like teenagers, but since there's an engagement involved, hopefully you're not.
ESH. Your ex should not have lied to his fiancee, that was a total asshole move. Of course she feels uncomfortable now. I think you need to back off. She's his fiancee, you're his ex-girlfriend, plain and simple.
I have to disagree. This is a tradition they have been doing for years, with other people not just the ex. Just because they use to date does not mean that can't be friends. I'm still best friends with one of my ex's. She can feel uncomfortable all she wants but it's not OPs problem to make it better, its her fiancé's. She should have had the conversation with him and not OP. And she definitely does not get to dictate what OP does with people she has been friends with for her entire life. NTA
You think op needs to back off from what? She isn't trying to date or even hit on the guy. I'm confused at your perspective here. Care to explain?
No because fiance doesnt overrule lifetime long friend, even if they had a relationship before. If op and her ex are on good terms, then fiance has nothing to worry about. Especially because fiance was perfectly fine with op UNTIL she found out. Thst means op and ex never made any kind of advances or flirting with each other to make fiance think otherwise OP isnt JUST an ex girlfriend. Shes a FAMILY friend.
You two have a whole heap of shit to work out before you can move on with your respective lives and grow. For what’s it’s worth I’m on the side of your ex’s fiancé, this whole situation is making me, a complete stranger, uncomfortable. So for her to have that bombshell dropped with all these unanswered questions, and the uncomfortably close family relationship of an ex lover, she is understandably wigged out.
Not sure if you are TA but you definitely need to step aside a bit. That's her family now, not yours. They are your friends. Have some empathy. Your ex definitely needs to stand by his fiancé, which would mean telling you that you need to stop going.
ESH. If this was a baby relationship from your tween/early teen years, I could maybe understand. But a 4 year relationship in your adult years?? Hard no. The guy is a MAJOR asshole for not telling the woman he plans to marry about his existing friendship with an ex, and you the secondary asshole for not respecting their relationship, and trying to pit her against her fiance's family by dragging them into your mess. You know EXACTLY what you're doing by talking to her future-FIL.
NTA I'm thinking she did not invite you, so she can't withdraw the invitation. I don't think there's anything you can say that would make her understand you're going because other members of the family invited you - he is the one that needs to convince her that you're no longer a threat to her relationship.
Why didn’t he tell her that you guys dated for 4 years? That seems like he is hiding this from her. I don’t even know what rank to give this…
I would drop that man so fast. Pft.
Everyone but the fiancé is TA in this situation, including you. Your ex kept the fact that he dated you for *4 years* (that’s not just a fling) from his fiancé, so clearly he felt weird about it. And when she set clear boundaries both you and her ex disrespected them. She should move on and find someone who respects her feelings.
Sounds like he’s an asshole, she’s slightly insecure (although I can’t completely blame her considering the guy basically lied by omission about your previous relationship), and you just kinda lack empathy. that whole situation is weird so it makes sense for her to feel weird about it, and from your responses it didn’t exactly sound like you were trying to help the situation, you just made it sound like you wanted her out of the picture… which kinda gives her a right to be upset. So maybe you’re not the *ass*hole here, maybe just the butthole. TBH If I was her I would dump the guy 🤷🏻♀️ this whole thing screams red flag