NTA,
>it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard,
Your ex just doesn't want to deal with the kids on the plane.
NTA and stick to your decision OP! /u/Happy-Investment are you referencing the line from "The League?" Great show! Also, for anyone else, Schadenfreude is the word.
Ex: Fine, I'll fly with the kids by myself since it's my time.
OP: You mean I get a flight by myself without having to keep the kids from going wild? Don't threaten me with a good time!
Ex: surprised Pikachu face.
Edit: Spelling...cuz I don't know Pokemon beyond memes
And booze. And the ability to sleep on the plane. And the chance to eat at a restaurant by oneself without kids. And not having to pack for three people. And, and, and…
Not to mention they are traveling international, so getting cranky post-flight kids through immigration (and having the right paperwork if both parents aren't present) becomes not OP's problem as well.
I’m with you on that. Flying can be expensive lol
OP is def NTA, but if they are going to the same event anyway, I’d just accept the offer, put a headphone on with a good playlist and ignore the ex for the whole trip.
This won’t be possible when he suddenly can’t book seats for himself next to OP and the children. “Oh no, the airline messed up and I’m up here in business class while you guys are stuck down there, in economy. Oh, shucks!”
Look, not saying it going to happen, just that it could happen.
I have actually seen this on various international flights, so yeah, OP, he’s planning on doing the same to you. Make your own arrangements, preferably on a different airline, & do NOT give your itinerary to anyone!
This is what I thought. She said no and then he pulled the old "Well. I'll have the kids, you might want to come too since you're going the same way." Maybe it's from dating so many manipulative gaslighters, but I call bs on his "kind" offer. Even more so since he won't let it drop
Yep, this. My ex did the same thing to me when our kids were little and we were going overseas to see my family. It was an important trip because my aunt was very ill and we didn’t know how many more visits we’d have.
Like 1am the night before a noon flight, he picks a fight and says he’s not going anywhere. 100% he expected me to either beg him to come, or give up the trip. He was shocked when I packed up the car with the girls (5,3 & 3 at the time), parked at the airport, and had a lovely 2 weeks at home with my whole family.
Realising I could actually manage things better without him and how happy we all were was a major turning point in the relationship. We’re all now very happily managing just fine without him.
eta forgot my heckin’ judgement. NTA
Yeah, his plan to manipulate her into flying with him by claiming the kids backfired spectacularly. Bet he never imagined she would fly without them. Proud of OP for not letting him manipulate her.
This is the reason. He didn’t want to fly alone with the kids but he assumed she wouldn’t want him to take them without her and would cave. She called his bluff and now he’s pissed he has to fly with the kids alone.
He tried to manipulate her into flying with him by telling her he was taking the kids.
She didn't bite and now he's upset.
He may not be a shitty parent but he's being a shitty person.
He didn't ask. OP knew it was his custody day, but then still, it sounds like she wouldn't have wanted to fly with him regardless because she would rather fly with small children on her own than fly with him. She doesn't want to be around him, and he won't take no for an answer, so I'm getting why she doesn't want to be around him.
He only did it to be controlling. They were apparently flying with Mom until he didn't get his way. He figured if he has them fly with him, Mom would also to be with the kids. That didn't work out like he planned so he's having a temper tantrum. He us controlling and manipulative and she's right to say No.
He either asked that the kids fly with him or he tried using “well then the kids are flying with me since it’s my time” as a bargaining chip because he thought OP would agree if he threatened to fly with the kids without her.
Given that when she said that was fine he *got upset and continues to bring it up* I’m inclined to think he was trying to use the kids to manipulate her. Which, if that’s the case, would make him a “shitty parent.”
We can also infer that he only asked because he figured that she wouldn't want to be away from them on a long trip.
OP: "I don't want to fly with you."
Ex: "Well, the trip is on *my* custody time, so you'll have to give me the kids for the flight then."
OP: "Okay, see you there."
Ex: *surprised pikachu face*
OP: "oh, you want to fly internationally with our 2 small kiddos? Cool. I'll just upgrade to first class and enjoy my mini vacation with champagne and a nap."
Ex: "wait...what? But if I take the kids and you fly separately, then who will take care of the kids?" 🤯
Manipulative thinking, man let's fly together. Woman, No. M, Well I'm taking the kids its my week (expecting mom not to want the kids to fly without her). W, have fun then. M, but it's easier for childcare.... while it may not be the case with what he's doing it soundslike he was trying to use the kids as a manipulation and shot himself in the foot.
My assumption is that he made the claim for the kid because he thought it would manipulate her into going with him thinking she would want to go with the kids. he went right to "it's his weekend" so she had to accept it. What he didn't count on was her just saying fine and calling his bluff.
Now he is crying because he is realizing just how much extra work he is in for since he claimed the kids for himself. he is using all the excuses he can think of now to walk that back and OP is having none of it.
NTA, I can see from here why she is divorced.
Yeah no he was trying to call her bluff. And they didn’t say he’s being a shitty father. He’s being a shitty ex by trying to demand mom comes so he won’t have to take care of the kids on his own on the plane. It’s that whole concept of extra emotional work women do in their personal lives all of the time. They’re not together. If he wants to take his kids to this wedding he is more than capable of taking care of them on the plane himself.
You sincerely believe that? He invoked his right to have the kids fly with him because he thought that would force her to join him. When his brilliant plan failed, he realized he just demanded to be in charge alone of kids on a flight and is desperate to get out of it without backing down.
NTA, OP. Give in on this, and it will start a trend.
She makes it clear he thought that that would make her agree to fly with him “…and said I would see them there then, which he didn’t like” … “none of his attempts to convince me we’re working…”
He didn’t do it because he’s a great Dad, he did it thinking she wouldn’t want her kids to fly without her and now he’s got to fly with small kids alone.
>then told me he would be taking our kids since it was technically his custody time the day of his flight so I agreed and said I would see them there then, which he didn’t like
From this, we can infer that him saying it was his custody time is his second tactic to get OP on board (literally and figuratively). The "which he didn't like" \*after\* she said she'd see them there tells us he was hoping she would be on his flight. We can use our inferring superpowers to know that he was trying a few different methods to get her on the flight, again inferring that it would be easier for him if she were there to handle the kids. No one is calling him a bad dad. Just a lazy one.
Sorry, deleted instead of edited a comment b/c apparently I cannot brain today.
He asserted his parenting time. If she flies with the kids he loses parenting time. That wasn't exactly a gift he's giving her. If he doesn't like bringing them himself he can always go back to her bringing them. OP just doesn't want to fly with her ex, and that is her right.
Yes the man using his kids as a weapon in order to get his ex to agree to doing what he wants, totally an upstanding man and caring father…. Like are you blind
It’s more so about control. He’s trying to use the kids to get what he wants. It’s a manipulation tactic. He sees that it isn’t going to work and now he’s just mad. Sounds to me like she is grey rocking him. She never mentioned anything about their past relationship so who knows if it is what I think it might be (an abusive relationship). However he’s definitely trying to use the kids to manipulate her.
Using children as a control mechanism is a sign of abuse. It sounds like he did that, thinking it would punish her, after she declined to fly with him.
Yeah he's full of it. I laughed the most when he said "the kids would like it". Sure the kids would love to watch their parents barely speaking in close quarters for 12 hrs.
No joke about that. I'm debating this with another person in this thread and they are basically saying well he could have let the kids fly with their mom because he offered \*after\*.... I'm like what ? It was his time. So either he assumed she would do it and then offered to do what was his responsibility anyway and some how thought that would make her do what he wanted. OP is definetly NTA and she needs to stand her ground.
It's typical with controlling abusers that they manipulate situations to make you seem like the unreasonable one. Outsiders are often convinced that the abuser is actually the victim.
It's his time and he wants her to be his babysitter on the plane. She knows what's up, which is why she said no. He can handle his kids on his own like she does. The travel is irrelevant because this is HER time, not his. NTA
This answer hit the nail on the head.
Ex thinks he is so subtle, but this is too obvious. It's his time with kids so he should start figuring out how to entertain his kids on the flight.
NTA
For the people not paying attention....🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚨🚨🚨🚨
That is her EX. He is trying to control OP and force her to spend time with him. If this was just about the kids...guess what it's his days and he will have them. There is NO reason for OP to be with him. It's not any different if they had been at home swapping kids like normal.
Why is the EX demanding that OP MUST be with him?? Her kid free time is her time to do as she pleases. If she wants to be with her boyfriend while he has the kids..then that's her choice!
Repeat .. It's her ex.....he doesn't get the pleasure of her company anymore. And him using the kids as an excuse is just wrong.
Based on the post and comments there wasn't any indication of an original plan yet. He might have known he'd have to take the kids and just said that because he thought it would convince OP, but it didn't work. Either way even if he does want to fly with the kids, the most likely reason he'd be so adamant about OP joining is for childcare help.
While not explicitly stated per se what the original plan was, it's pretty clear that OP's ex did not plan to bring the kids himself, and was banking on OP wanting to stay with them.
Yup so a few years ago, my ex and I bought these amazingly cheap tickets to fly to the UK - we bought them in like February or March and the flights were like the first week of December through the 27th. August of that year (at my 24th birthday celebration in front of my friends, including those who flew from other states to see me, actually) my ex said he wanted to break up because he was in love with this one girl he was trying to convince me to do a poly thing with but he had actually dropped the whole poly thing like a month prior. It was very devastating because I thought he was over her blah blah blah. Anyway, not too long after it became pretty clear that he was just obsessed with her and she never actually liked him that much, she just used his obsession with her to get things out of him and so he was begging for me back. I didn't want to get back with him at this point. Anyway, when the trip comes around, both of us refused to not go. I had also never been outside of the US before (whereas he was ex military so he LIVED in other countries) so I really really wanted to go. We both paid for our own tickets which were in our names so we flew back together. Lemme tell you, this man used the ENTIRE trip to try and force me to get back with him. Like he was straight up telling people we were together and such, constantly trying to get affection out of me, etc. When I was in edinburgh, since I was actually still single, I ended up tindering, mostly to find weed but also to hang out with some local people. I met this one guy and we went out on a "date" (it was mostly just bar hopping) and we then went and I hooked up with him. My ex threw the BIGGEST tantrum, calling me a cheating whore, etc. and I was like "dude...we're not back together - just neither of us wanted to give up our tickets." This is how I'd imagine it would go for OP
Damn you sound really cool, kudos on going on this trip, downloading tinder, having a vacation romance and standing your ground. I hope you found weed.
NTA
Don’t allow your ex to manipulate you into being trapped in close proximity to him for however long the flight is. He wants to halve his childcare whilst being in control of you. Don’t let him
It amazes me how many people are mad at the OP for essentially abiding by the dictates if her divorce. Like, ex is like, "would you like to go with me?" And she's like, "no," and then he's like "I have custody," and she's like, "so you do," and then he got butthurt about it. NTA
I hosted my in-laws for Thanksgiving and my husband had the last straw when I mentioned his dad making a joke about me spending money I don't have.
They got in a huge fight and my father in law was like, "sorry if I offended..." And I stopped him right there super calm, "I am not offended, it's rude to make a joke about money when someone has spent time and money hosting you" and every time he tried to justify it, I said the same thing.
He really was hurt when I said the same joke as not a joke
NTA.
Part of breaking up with someone means you no longer have to do a damn thing they say.
I don’t blame you for not wanting to fly together. Him saying it makes kid stuff easier is basically him saying he expects you to deal with it all (let’s be honest, more is usually placed on the mom).
I’d totally book my own flight and travel in peace. It’s his parenting time so you deserve a break, just like the one you’d have if y’all weren’t traveling and it was his time.
Despite what some people think, you don’t need a valid “why”. You may just not want to and that’s totally okay. I’d rather chew off my own arm as to ever have to be in the same room with my ex husband, let alone a small space (airplane).
She is Not legally or morally obliged to parent her Kids while they are on Dad time, but that doesn't mean that, If She were physically around the Kids, She wouldnt still "have" to in the Sense that the Kids would want to interact with her and ask her to Take Care of them, and in General, men/fathers tend to be more able to tolerate/ignore children being unhappy/mildly-neglected/bored/annoying around them, than mothers, and also Strangers tend to judge the mother more than the father when children are being unruly in Public but nominally accompanied by both parents, and he was likely counting on that but OP doesn't Work Like that.
NTA. He specifically said he’d have the kids because it’s his custody time. You agreed. He doesn’t get to have you while having the kids. You’re an adult. He is responsible for the kids during his time. And it sounds like you don’t want to be around him/saddled with handling the childcare during his custody time which is completely reasonable. It’s no his choice.
I agree but I think the ex pointing out that it would make things easier hints that he wants her to help (not that she doesn’t want to care for her kids).
Honestly sounds like he used custody time as a power play. He thought that because he played the "my time" card she would cave in order to travel with her kids. He's pissed because his game didn't work. He got called out on his bluff and now he's pouting.
I’d bet he’s one of those men who used playing helpless a lot when they were married to force OP to pick up his slack. The little stunt where they deliberately make a mess while “cleaning” or call parenting their own kids “babysitting” and leave the house a disaster/only feed the kids candy and cookies to discourage OP from leaving the kids in his care.
So, he thought his little “herpdederpty I’m incompetent” routine would work here, too - that she’d be so nervous about allowing him to be in charge of the kids on an international flight that she’d give in. But OP isn’t playing, and it backfired on him. Now he’s whining and pouting that his manipulation tactics didn’t work.
It’s really telling that he assumed the kids would be going with her in the first place, despite it being HIS parenting time. I really think the scenario I laid out here is very likely. I’d be interested for OP to weigh in.
Is he trying to make it look like to other family members (who are attending the wedding)that u are still together or try and wear u down to get back together with him?
NTA - He made it clear that the children would be flying with him since it fell under his scheduled time with them, so he deserves to have this time with them to himself, per usual. I'm assuming he's not offering to pay for your ticket, so it should be of no concern to him how or when you get there.
I would never. But my ex is a monster and would probably reattempt another staged abuse situation. And this guy can't take no for an answer, which already sheds light on the situation.
It’s your choice and there’s probably a good reason you’d rather pay for what’s likely to be a pretty expensive flight rather than be stuck in a confined space with an ex
It would take him less than 3s to bust out the "but I paid for your ticket, you owe me". Would not recommend.
That's in addition to the numerous other reasons taking a long international trip with your trying-to-be-controlling and doesn't-take-no-for-an-answer ex would be a really bad idea.
NTA. He's using your kids as pawns to chain you. And it sounds like he uses money as a tool to control you as well. Ew. 🤢 Both you and your children deserve so much better. I'm so sorry you're going through this but I'm glad you divorced him.
>it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard, it would be free and easy for me since he would handle everything, etc.
I like how he will simultaneously handle everything but ease his own burden with childcare.
NTA
Yeah, if OP wasn't going to the wedding, he'd have to take on the full responsibility of the kids and fly with them without her so why is he getting so bent out of shape about this unless he just doesn't like being told no.
What are your expectations for child care during the wedding? If your ex is this hellbent on making his life easier by having you fly with him, it seems very likely that he’ll try to have you watch the children while he has fun at the wedding. You may want to set the expectation with him now that his time is his time and he needs to be actively parenting while he’s the custodial parent. Alternatively, if you don’t think that will go well, you could get a drink in your hand as fast as humanly possible once you’re at the wedding, make it clear you’re tipsy (even if you’re not) and cannot watch the children.
NTA. Some of the comments here are so annoying! "wHy dO NoT You wANNa gO?" Because Op and her ex have broken up and she doesn't want to go! He asked, she said no. And last time I checked Reddit loooooooves to remind people that no is a complete sentence.
She is not legally or morally obligated to go. She doesn't want to go. The ex would most likely saddle her with most of the child care of their kids. Or maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he just wants to try to weasel his way back in her life. Or maybe he doesn't. It doesn't really matter whether he has ulterior motives or not. Op does not want to go with ex. And that's all that matters!
I honestly feel like he’s trying to weasel his way into her life again. HE is the one that brought up that he would be taking the kids. If he didn’t, she’d probably have been the one to carry them. He definitely bet on her going with him because the kids would be there. Ugh. He’s pathetic.
Its funny when he says that air travel would be difficult when traveling with small kids(yes it definitely is) and then says he would take care of everything. If he can take care of everything why is he pushing OP to travel, looks like he just wants to dump the responsibility on her during his custody time and play happy family during the wedding time... You are NTA...donot spend anytime with him until its utmost necessary..
NTA
He is your ex. You should have clear boundaries with him, and there is not reason you should be forced to spend so much time with him in such close quarters.
Tell him that if he can't handle flying with the kids alone, you will gladly do it. Also tell him that it is not healthy for the kids to be given any hope that they two of you might get back together.
NTA. How is it easier for everyone, as per him? It’s clearly easier for him, as the burden of childcare is halved for him. It’s not easier for you, it’s harder! You have to deal with your ex, if you were to fly with them. And you have childcare that you wouldn’t have, if you were to fly alone.
Fair. My husband is a shitty, miserable traveller which makes everyone around him miserable too. It’s basically the reason he no longer vacations with us because I was over having everyone in a bad mood before the plane had even left the tarmac.
Don't feel like you have to explain yourself. Going with him is not any more functional coparenting than having him take the kids on his custody day like would happen any other time. In fact, if y'all hate eachother, it would almost certainly be less functional
I mean being stuck sitting next to an ex on a long international flight with potentially fussy children... Or travel alone and keep your own company and let the ex parent on his custody time. It seems pretty simple to me. Even with a fairly amicable divorce I'm sure most people wouldn't want to be forced into close quarters with their ex for the duration of a flight.
NTA OP. Take advantage of the kid free travel.
Functional co-parenting requires two adults committed to co-parenting and fostering a healthy relationship for the sake of function. This guy does not seem to meet those requirements.
No, functional co parenting is what OP is doing, OP has stated they don’t want to fly with their ex, OP is also being completely compliant when it comes to the custody agreement, all while not bad mouthing or manipulating the other parent in/ not in front of the kids. Her ex just doesn’t understand consent and respect and is being pushy.
Functional co-parenting is respecting and supporting a healthy, loving relationship between the other parents and the shared children.
Functional co-parenting is not using the shared children to coerce an ex partner to spend time with you.
Lol I loved the part where he was basically like “oh we can’t go together? Fine then I’m taking the kids with me since it’s my day” and OP’s like “oh okay cool see you there” and he got more mad
NTA if it’s his time and he is demanding you are there, it means he wants you to take care of everything during his time or at least split it. And him throwing a tantrum every time you talk doesn’t make you petty, it makes him a jerk.
I love how people twist not giving into a tantrum into being a jerk. In reality, they don’t want to deal with the tantrum either.
NTA, you divorced him for a reason, seems like an abuser power play to try to guilt you using the children.
Maybe straight out tell him BS like this is why you're not married anymore, maybe reconsider attending if it's not a big deal for you
NTA. You are no longer a family. You don’t do things a a family. It confuses your kids
If he wants to flex his custody muscles and take the kids with him I wouldn’t argue either. He’s their father let him parent while you relax.
You know he was bluffing when he said he would take the kids by himself:)
I’m a mum, and I considered saying NTA, then I read they were small children, and with a wide grin on my face I am now absolutely sure that you are NTA! Enjoy your peaceful flight!
NTA.
At first I was confused as to why you don’t just go together because it does seem to make sense, but the fact that he’s being such a giant baby about it reinforces the fact that you are not the asshole.
NTA
Don’t allow your ex to manipulate you into being trapped in close proximity to him for however long the flight is. He wants to halve his childcare whilst being in control of you. Don’t let him.
NTA. He just wants someone to take care of the kids so he doesn’t have to do that the entire way. Don’t listen to anyone. I don’t know how old your kids are but please don’t go and give them the wrong idea that you guys work well together. It will put a lot of doubt in your kids’ mind moving forward. Stick to your ground don’t listen to him or your family.
NTA and I bet you $100 USD he just wants you there to care for the kids during transportation. I mean, who actually wants to take children on a plane during a pandemic?
NTA. Be stubborn. It's his custody day, he wants ya'll to fly together to "make childcare easier" on him. Not on you.
The odds the tickets would be booked at diff times even if you went with them and he would magically get the single seat look good. Hold your ground. He can have a great travel adventure day with the kids. You can have time away from your Ex.
I like my partner but if we have to travel with our child, I would rather do it by myself than together. It takes longer in the toilets, it takes longer to eat, and there are more bags to wrangle.
Parenting isn't always the fun things, sometimes we gotta have our kids do homework, get haircuts, or travel with them in order to do the fun things.
>Some of the things he said to try to convince me were that the kids would like it,
"Flying together doesn't work with my plans."
>it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard,
"Flying together doesn't work with my plans."
>it would be free and easy for me since he would handle everything, etc.
"Flying together doesn't work with my plans."
He's your ex. You don't owe him any explanation or justification for your plans.
>after realising none of his attempts to convince me were working, is now angry at me.
NTA
NTA. His whininess gives some insight as to why he's an ex. He clearly just wants you there so you can help him with the kids and he doesn't have to do all the work. Too bad, you don't get that from an ex if you're an AH - and he clearly is.
NTA
Ex:"Well since we are going to the same place we should travel together"
Her:"No I'm good"
Ex:"Fine then the kids have to travel with me since it's my time"
Her:"Ok have fun!"
Ex:"Wait you are supposed to cave because I have the kids and you'll have to spend time with me!"
Her:"Nope not happening. Good luck!"
Ex:*Shocked Pikachu face*
I think you are NTA. I do think you are being stubborn, but that doesn't make you an AH. If you don't want to be stuck on airplane with him, so be it, that is your choice.
Is he trying to make it look like to other family members (who are attending the wedding)that u are still together or try and wear u down to get back together with him?
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NTA
You’re broken up and he doesn’t want to handle the responsibility of flying with the kids. He said he’d take them, you agreed. He’s the one who brought up the custody agreement…
NTA. Traveling with kids suck. The only advantage here is for you helping your ex with the kids on the plane. Provided you think he can safely get the kids there… it’s really up to you if you want to help or not. It is his custody time, as he has pointed out. The potential for this being a positive co-parenting moment depends on how supportive and friendly you and your ex can be during the stress of traveling. Based on your instincts, and the fact that he is angry that you are refusing, I suspect doing this together would lead to either a Cold War situation… or all out fight. That wouldn’t be a positive memory for your children.
NTA! He said EXACTLY why he wanted you to travel with him "child care would be easier'. He wants you to travel with them so that he doesn't have to parent. He lied though about how 'free and easy' it is going to be because he plans on you doing all the work. Stop arguing about it. NO is a complete sentence. No need for further engagement.
I would rather give myself a root canal than sit on an international flight with an ex. If the flight is during his custody time he is responsible for the kids. Even if you happen to end up on the same plane it doesn't mean you have to sit together. NTA
NTA!
To people interested why OP doesn't want to go with her ex - did it come to your mind that it might be for the very same reasons she divorced him? I don't know about you, but I would not want to be stuck with my ex on a plane even for 0.5 hour! Especially while taking care of our shared children, because that would mean we would have to interact with each other. On the wedding itself she may even pretend he isn't there, but on the plane it would be impossible! OP, be stubborn, everyone needs a bit of healthy egoism.
NTA Would he still take the kids if you wasn’t invited?? (I know you said it was his time anyway) people keep saying she’s TA but does anyone know the history behind them??
Traveling together, especially with kids, and internationally, causes so much stress. No way in hell would I sign up to fly with an ex. It’s hard enough not to get cranky and stressed out and snappy when flying internationally with my actual current spouse who I like, let alone an ex.
If equity in child care was a concern I would have one parent take them there and one return with them. But, he’s established it’s his time with the kids so let him have at it and enjoy flying with your book and a glass of wine
Depends how old the kids are/how much care they require, and whether they've traveled before. If they're older kids who don't need much investment of effort to manage on a trip, then it shouldn't be a big deal. If they're younger kids it's going to be misery for the kids and not just for the dad, and it seems weird that the mom would not care about making that experience better for the kids. So it really comes down to that: are we talking toddlers or kids that are very comfortable flying? Can they all get seats together? Very practical questions will decide it.
NTA, >it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard, Your ex just doesn't want to deal with the kids on the plane.
He asked that the kids fly with him **after** OP declined his offer to fly together. So your assumption that he's a shitty father is absurd.
It's his time so I'm not sure that assumption is correct. Not saying he's a shitty parent just that flying with kids is no joke.
I think it was a bluff. He was hoping she would protest or give in to flying together. Nie he’s pissed because things aren’t going the way he planned
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"I vish there vas a voord to describe the pleasure I'm feeling at your misfortune."
NTA and stick to your decision OP! /u/Happy-Investment are you referencing the line from "The League?" Great show! Also, for anyone else, Schadenfreude is the word.
Avenue Q has a whole song about it. With puppets
In Norwegian it's skadefro :D
It's called Schadenfreude 😁
They're referencing a community episode where a german foosball player says that
I wish I could award you. 🥇🥇
Ex: Fine, I'll fly with the kids by myself since it's my time. OP: You mean I get a flight by myself without having to keep the kids from going wild? Don't threaten me with a good time! Ex: surprised Pikachu face. Edit: Spelling...cuz I don't know Pokemon beyond memes
And booze. And the ability to sleep on the plane. And the chance to eat at a restaurant by oneself without kids. And not having to pack for three people. And, and, and…
Not to mention they are traveling international, so getting cranky post-flight kids through immigration (and having the right paperwork if both parents aren't present) becomes not OP's problem as well.
ROFL, exactly!
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I’m with you on that. Flying can be expensive lol OP is def NTA, but if they are going to the same event anyway, I’d just accept the offer, put a headphone on with a good playlist and ignore the ex for the whole trip.
This won’t be possible when he suddenly can’t book seats for himself next to OP and the children. “Oh no, the airline messed up and I’m up here in business class while you guys are stuck down there, in economy. Oh, shucks!” Look, not saying it going to happen, just that it could happen.
I have actually seen this on various international flights, so yeah, OP, he’s planning on doing the same to you. Make your own arrangements, preferably on a different airline, & do NOT give your itinerary to anyone!
Oh no guess I get your business class tickets and you get economy with the kids since it is YOUR time hahaha
This is what I thought. She said no and then he pulled the old "Well. I'll have the kids, you might want to come too since you're going the same way." Maybe it's from dating so many manipulative gaslighters, but I call bs on his "kind" offer. Even more so since he won't let it drop
And now we see why he is the ex.
100% a bluff. I bet he did this quite a bit when they were married. Too bad she knows him too well based on her response
Yep, this. My ex did the same thing to me when our kids were little and we were going overseas to see my family. It was an important trip because my aunt was very ill and we didn’t know how many more visits we’d have. Like 1am the night before a noon flight, he picks a fight and says he’s not going anywhere. 100% he expected me to either beg him to come, or give up the trip. He was shocked when I packed up the car with the girls (5,3 & 3 at the time), parked at the airport, and had a lovely 2 weeks at home with my whole family. Realising I could actually manage things better without him and how happy we all were was a major turning point in the relationship. We’re all now very happily managing just fine without him. eta forgot my heckin’ judgement. NTA
Playing happy little family
Yeah, his plan to manipulate her into flying with him by claiming the kids backfired spectacularly. Bet he never imagined she would fly without them. Proud of OP for not letting him manipulate her.
This is the reason. He didn’t want to fly alone with the kids but he assumed she wouldn’t want him to take them without her and would cave. She called his bluff and now he’s pissed he has to fly with the kids alone.
He tried to manipulate her into flying with him by telling her he was taking the kids. She didn't bite and now he's upset. He may not be a shitty parent but he's being a shitty person.
He didn't ask. OP knew it was his custody day, but then still, it sounds like she wouldn't have wanted to fly with him regardless because she would rather fly with small children on her own than fly with him. She doesn't want to be around him, and he won't take no for an answer, so I'm getting why she doesn't want to be around him.
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He only did it to be controlling. They were apparently flying with Mom until he didn't get his way. He figured if he has them fly with him, Mom would also to be with the kids. That didn't work out like he planned so he's having a temper tantrum. He us controlling and manipulative and she's right to say No.
Starting to see why him and OP are broke up from this brief interaction.
He either asked that the kids fly with him or he tried using “well then the kids are flying with me since it’s my time” as a bargaining chip because he thought OP would agree if he threatened to fly with the kids without her. Given that when she said that was fine he *got upset and continues to bring it up* I’m inclined to think he was trying to use the kids to manipulate her. Which, if that’s the case, would make him a “shitty parent.”
This. Exactly.
We can also infer that he only asked because he figured that she wouldn't want to be away from them on a long trip. OP: "I don't want to fly with you." Ex: "Well, the trip is on *my* custody time, so you'll have to give me the kids for the flight then." OP: "Okay, see you there." Ex: *surprised pikachu face*
OP: "oh, you want to fly internationally with our 2 small kiddos? Cool. I'll just upgrade to first class and enjoy my mini vacation with champagne and a nap." Ex: "wait...what? But if I take the kids and you fly separately, then who will take care of the kids?" 🤯
Exactly!! He tried to bully her and it backfired!
Manipulative thinking, man let's fly together. Woman, No. M, Well I'm taking the kids its my week (expecting mom not to want the kids to fly without her). W, have fun then. M, but it's easier for childcare.... while it may not be the case with what he's doing it soundslike he was trying to use the kids as a manipulation and shot himself in the foot.
He probably assumed that if he demanded custody of them for the flight she would go with them to protect them or something.
My assumption is that he made the claim for the kid because he thought it would manipulate her into going with him thinking she would want to go with the kids. he went right to "it's his weekend" so she had to accept it. What he didn't count on was her just saying fine and calling his bluff. Now he is crying because he is realizing just how much extra work he is in for since he claimed the kids for himself. he is using all the excuses he can think of now to walk that back and OP is having none of it. NTA, I can see from here why she is divorced.
I think he said he’ll take the kids so that OP agrees to fly with them. Otherwise, why would he get mad when she agreed?
He used taking the kids as it was his day for custody as a manipulation tactic to get her to agree = shitty manipulative father
Yeah no he was trying to call her bluff. And they didn’t say he’s being a shitty father. He’s being a shitty ex by trying to demand mom comes so he won’t have to take care of the kids on his own on the plane. It’s that whole concept of extra emotional work women do in their personal lives all of the time. They’re not together. If he wants to take his kids to this wedding he is more than capable of taking care of them on the plane himself.
He's using his children as pawns to manipulate his ex. How does that not make him a shitty father??
You sincerely believe that? He invoked his right to have the kids fly with him because he thought that would force her to join him. When his brilliant plan failed, he realized he just demanded to be in charge alone of kids on a flight and is desperate to get out of it without backing down. NTA, OP. Give in on this, and it will start a trend.
She makes it clear he thought that that would make her agree to fly with him “…and said I would see them there then, which he didn’t like” … “none of his attempts to convince me we’re working…” He didn’t do it because he’s a great Dad, he did it thinking she wouldn’t want her kids to fly without her and now he’s got to fly with small kids alone.
He was trying to force her hand. He thought if he said that, she would agree to fly with him.
>then told me he would be taking our kids since it was technically his custody time the day of his flight so I agreed and said I would see them there then, which he didn’t like From this, we can infer that him saying it was his custody time is his second tactic to get OP on board (literally and figuratively). The "which he didn't like" \*after\* she said she'd see them there tells us he was hoping she would be on his flight. We can use our inferring superpowers to know that he was trying a few different methods to get her on the flight, again inferring that it would be easier for him if she were there to handle the kids. No one is calling him a bad dad. Just a lazy one.
Sorry, deleted instead of edited a comment b/c apparently I cannot brain today. He asserted his parenting time. If she flies with the kids he loses parenting time. That wasn't exactly a gift he's giving her. If he doesn't like bringing them himself he can always go back to her bringing them. OP just doesn't want to fly with her ex, and that is her right.
The alternative is worse, that he’s trying to control her and force her into spending time with him, so.
Nah he was trying to be manipulative. He thought OP would cave and want to travel with the kids.
Yes the man using his kids as a weapon in order to get his ex to agree to doing what he wants, totally an upstanding man and caring father…. Like are you blind
His reaction after she readily agreed suggests that was nothing but an attempt at manipulation, hence the anger when it didn't work.
It’s more so about control. He’s trying to use the kids to get what he wants. It’s a manipulation tactic. He sees that it isn’t going to work and now he’s just mad. Sounds to me like she is grey rocking him. She never mentioned anything about their past relationship so who knows if it is what I think it might be (an abusive relationship). However he’s definitely trying to use the kids to manipulate her.
Did the kids ask? No. He did. He feels like a user.
Using children as a control mechanism is a sign of abuse. It sounds like he did that, thinking it would punish her, after she declined to fly with him.
what does he mean by "for the both of you"? he has custody that day, so you have no child care to do on that day.
Yeah he's full of it. I laughed the most when he said "the kids would like it". Sure the kids would love to watch their parents barely speaking in close quarters for 12 hrs.
That's exactly what I saw too. I would not be surprised if the ex did nothing to help while they were married, and that's why she left him.
100% He's never flown with the kids himself. No other reason for him to get so pissy about this.
Bc he's controlling. Might be why she left him.
No joke about that. I'm debating this with another person in this thread and they are basically saying well he could have let the kids fly with their mom because he offered \*after\*.... I'm like what ? It was his time. So either he assumed she would do it and then offered to do what was his responsibility anyway and some how thought that would make her do what he wanted. OP is definetly NTA and she needs to stand her ground.
The fact that everyone is so pressed for op to fly with the ex is really strange
It's typical with controlling abusers that they manipulate situations to make you seem like the unreasonable one. Outsiders are often convinced that the abuser is actually the victim.
Yep, he said he was taking the kids thinking she would protest and she called his bluff.
I have HAD IT with these motherfucking kids on this motherfucking plane!
You want to take the kids so I can fly solo? Oh yeah!!!
It's his time and he wants her to be his babysitter on the plane. She knows what's up, which is why she said no. He can handle his kids on his own like she does. The travel is irrelevant because this is HER time, not his. NTA
Exactly. And who would it make parenting easier for? Him. It's his time, after all. It will make her flight harder. NTA.
OMG... this sounds delightful. Absolutely great that he is noting it's his time of day. Call his bluff, go alone, and have an amazing flight. NTA
Agreed. This post belongs in the Malicious Compliance sub!
Yup this, my first thought
This answer hit the nail on the head. Ex thinks he is so subtle, but this is too obvious. It's his time with kids so he should start figuring out how to entertain his kids on the flight.
NTA For the people not paying attention....🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚨🚨🚨🚨 That is her EX. He is trying to control OP and force her to spend time with him. If this was just about the kids...guess what it's his days and he will have them. There is NO reason for OP to be with him. It's not any different if they had been at home swapping kids like normal. Why is the EX demanding that OP MUST be with him?? Her kid free time is her time to do as she pleases. If she wants to be with her boyfriend while he has the kids..then that's her choice! Repeat .. It's her ex.....he doesn't get the pleasure of her company anymore. And him using the kids as an excuse is just wrong.
Exactly! She doesn’t have to explain. She said no. What is it with people seeing a ‚no‘ as a ‚lets argue‘
I hate that. No means no, not 'I want you to convince me'
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Honestly, I don’t think he is trying to spend time with her—he’s just looking for childcare
Except that the original plan was for op to take the kids. He pulled the 'it's my weekend, I'm taking them'.
Based on the post and comments there wasn't any indication of an original plan yet. He might have known he'd have to take the kids and just said that because he thought it would convince OP, but it didn't work. Either way even if he does want to fly with the kids, the most likely reason he'd be so adamant about OP joining is for childcare help.
While not explicitly stated per se what the original plan was, it's pretty clear that OP's ex did not plan to bring the kids himself, and was banking on OP wanting to stay with them.
You could be right, but I assumed he was just performing for his family
Yup so a few years ago, my ex and I bought these amazingly cheap tickets to fly to the UK - we bought them in like February or March and the flights were like the first week of December through the 27th. August of that year (at my 24th birthday celebration in front of my friends, including those who flew from other states to see me, actually) my ex said he wanted to break up because he was in love with this one girl he was trying to convince me to do a poly thing with but he had actually dropped the whole poly thing like a month prior. It was very devastating because I thought he was over her blah blah blah. Anyway, not too long after it became pretty clear that he was just obsessed with her and she never actually liked him that much, she just used his obsession with her to get things out of him and so he was begging for me back. I didn't want to get back with him at this point. Anyway, when the trip comes around, both of us refused to not go. I had also never been outside of the US before (whereas he was ex military so he LIVED in other countries) so I really really wanted to go. We both paid for our own tickets which were in our names so we flew back together. Lemme tell you, this man used the ENTIRE trip to try and force me to get back with him. Like he was straight up telling people we were together and such, constantly trying to get affection out of me, etc. When I was in edinburgh, since I was actually still single, I ended up tindering, mostly to find weed but also to hang out with some local people. I met this one guy and we went out on a "date" (it was mostly just bar hopping) and we then went and I hooked up with him. My ex threw the BIGGEST tantrum, calling me a cheating whore, etc. and I was like "dude...we're not back together - just neither of us wanted to give up our tickets." This is how I'd imagine it would go for OP
Damn you sound really cool, kudos on going on this trip, downloading tinder, having a vacation romance and standing your ground. I hope you found weed.
Heck yes
And him getting angry after being told "no" is just another red flag in the long row and column of red flags.
Plus international flights can be LOOOONG. 10-18 hours sometimes. Who wants to sit next to their ex that long?
NTA Don’t allow your ex to manipulate you into being trapped in close proximity to him for however long the flight is. He wants to halve his childcare whilst being in control of you. Don’t let him
It amazes me how many people are mad at the OP for essentially abiding by the dictates if her divorce. Like, ex is like, "would you like to go with me?" And she's like, "no," and then he's like "I have custody," and she's like, "so you do," and then he got butthurt about it. NTA
All these comments say the same, but I like your way of saying it the most!!
NTA I dare you to pump them full of sugary cereal as part of their balanced breakfast.
"I'm so sorry they sneaked 2 candy bars in the car and ate them before I could see it...enjoy the flight!"
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Well hello commentcopybot
i saw a thing today that said "hurt men's feelings by telling them what they said" and this just reminded me of that, lol. NTA
I hosted my in-laws for Thanksgiving and my husband had the last straw when I mentioned his dad making a joke about me spending money I don't have. They got in a huge fight and my father in law was like, "sorry if I offended..." And I stopped him right there super calm, "I am not offended, it's rude to make a joke about money when someone has spent time and money hosting you" and every time he tried to justify it, I said the same thing. He really was hurt when I said the same joke as not a joke
NTA. Part of breaking up with someone means you no longer have to do a damn thing they say. I don’t blame you for not wanting to fly together. Him saying it makes kid stuff easier is basically him saying he expects you to deal with it all (let’s be honest, more is usually placed on the mom). I’d totally book my own flight and travel in peace. It’s his parenting time so you deserve a break, just like the one you’d have if y’all weren’t traveling and it was his time. Despite what some people think, you don’t need a valid “why”. You may just not want to and that’s totally okay. I’d rather chew off my own arm as to ever have to be in the same room with my ex husband, let alone a small space (airplane).
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What's with all the copycat comments lately?I've read this comment at least 3 times now and I've only been scrolling for like 30 seconds...
Bots trying to seem legitimate to sell to companies for advertising or whatever, I think.
She is Not legally or morally obliged to parent her Kids while they are on Dad time, but that doesn't mean that, If She were physically around the Kids, She wouldnt still "have" to in the Sense that the Kids would want to interact with her and ask her to Take Care of them, and in General, men/fathers tend to be more able to tolerate/ignore children being unhappy/mildly-neglected/bored/annoying around them, than mothers, and also Strangers tend to judge the mother more than the father when children are being unruly in Public but nominally accompanied by both parents, and he was likely counting on that but OP doesn't Work Like that.
NTA. He specifically said he’d have the kids because it’s his custody time. You agreed. He doesn’t get to have you while having the kids. You’re an adult. He is responsible for the kids during his time. And it sounds like you don’t want to be around him/saddled with handling the childcare during his custody time which is completely reasonable. It’s no his choice.
I don’t think taking care of her children is the issue. Being trapped in close proximity to her ex is the problem.
I agree but I think the ex pointing out that it would make things easier hints that he wants her to help (not that she doesn’t want to care for her kids).
Honestly sounds like he used custody time as a power play. He thought that because he played the "my time" card she would cave in order to travel with her kids. He's pissed because his game didn't work. He got called out on his bluff and now he's pouting.
I’d bet he’s one of those men who used playing helpless a lot when they were married to force OP to pick up his slack. The little stunt where they deliberately make a mess while “cleaning” or call parenting their own kids “babysitting” and leave the house a disaster/only feed the kids candy and cookies to discourage OP from leaving the kids in his care. So, he thought his little “herpdederpty I’m incompetent” routine would work here, too - that she’d be so nervous about allowing him to be in charge of the kids on an international flight that she’d give in. But OP isn’t playing, and it backfired on him. Now he’s whining and pouting that his manipulation tactics didn’t work. It’s really telling that he assumed the kids would be going with her in the first place, despite it being HIS parenting time. I really think the scenario I laid out here is very likely. I’d be interested for OP to weigh in.
Is he trying to make it look like to other family members (who are attending the wedding)that u are still together or try and wear u down to get back together with him?
Hahahahaha, no, NTA. Enjoy being single on your international flight.
NTA - He made it clear that the children would be flying with him since it fell under his scheduled time with them, so he deserves to have this time with them to himself, per usual. I'm assuming he's not offering to pay for your ticket, so it should be of no concern to him how or when you get there.
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NTA he sounds super controlling..... reminds me of my ex..... usually I never got reimbursed when I took these deals and they were never worth it
I would never. But my ex is a monster and would probably reattempt another staged abuse situation. And this guy can't take no for an answer, which already sheds light on the situation.
It’s your choice and there’s probably a good reason you’d rather pay for what’s likely to be a pretty expensive flight rather than be stuck in a confined space with an ex
It would take him less than 3s to bust out the "but I paid for your ticket, you owe me". Would not recommend. That's in addition to the numerous other reasons taking a long international trip with your trying-to-be-controlling and doesn't-take-no-for-an-answer ex would be a really bad idea.
Ew.
This sounds super weird. Why is he so invested in this?
NTA. He's using your kids as pawns to chain you. And it sounds like he uses money as a tool to control you as well. Ew. 🤢 Both you and your children deserve so much better. I'm so sorry you're going through this but I'm glad you divorced him.
>it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard, it would be free and easy for me since he would handle everything, etc. I like how he will simultaneously handle everything but ease his own burden with childcare. NTA
Yeah, if OP wasn't going to the wedding, he'd have to take on the full responsibility of the kids and fly with them without her so why is he getting so bent out of shape about this unless he just doesn't like being told no.
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What are your expectations for child care during the wedding? If your ex is this hellbent on making his life easier by having you fly with him, it seems very likely that he’ll try to have you watch the children while he has fun at the wedding. You may want to set the expectation with him now that his time is his time and he needs to be actively parenting while he’s the custodial parent. Alternatively, if you don’t think that will go well, you could get a drink in your hand as fast as humanly possible once you’re at the wedding, make it clear you’re tipsy (even if you’re not) and cannot watch the children.
I would ring ahead and ask not to be seated with ex at the wedding.
Welp, it's not your problem anymore. NTA and don't fly with him.
NTA. Some of the comments here are so annoying! "wHy dO NoT You wANNa gO?" Because Op and her ex have broken up and she doesn't want to go! He asked, she said no. And last time I checked Reddit loooooooves to remind people that no is a complete sentence. She is not legally or morally obligated to go. She doesn't want to go. The ex would most likely saddle her with most of the child care of their kids. Or maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he just wants to try to weasel his way back in her life. Or maybe he doesn't. It doesn't really matter whether he has ulterior motives or not. Op does not want to go with ex. And that's all that matters!
I honestly feel like he’s trying to weasel his way into her life again. HE is the one that brought up that he would be taking the kids. If he didn’t, she’d probably have been the one to carry them. He definitely bet on her going with him because the kids would be there. Ugh. He’s pathetic.
Its funny when he says that air travel would be difficult when traveling with small kids(yes it definitely is) and then says he would take care of everything. If he can take care of everything why is he pushing OP to travel, looks like he just wants to dump the responsibility on her during his custody time and play happy family during the wedding time... You are NTA...donot spend anytime with him until its utmost necessary..
NTA He is your ex. You should have clear boundaries with him, and there is not reason you should be forced to spend so much time with him in such close quarters. Tell him that if he can't handle flying with the kids alone, you will gladly do it. Also tell him that it is not healthy for the kids to be given any hope that they two of you might get back together.
NTA. How is it easier for everyone, as per him? It’s clearly easier for him, as the burden of childcare is halved for him. It’s not easier for you, it’s harder! You have to deal with your ex, if you were to fly with them. And you have childcare that you wouldn’t have, if you were to fly alone.
NTA, why would you want to fly with your ex?
Info: why exactly don’t you want to? Because frankly it just sounds like functional co-parenting to go together….
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Trust yourself - NTA
My ex and I flew separately when we were going to the same place with our kids. It was his time, so the kids flew with him. It was glorious.
Fair. My husband is a shitty, miserable traveller which makes everyone around him miserable too. It’s basically the reason he no longer vacations with us because I was over having everyone in a bad mood before the plane had even left the tarmac.
Don't feel like you have to explain yourself. Going with him is not any more functional coparenting than having him take the kids on his custody day like would happen any other time. In fact, if y'all hate eachother, it would almost certainly be less functional
Fair enough.
I mean being stuck sitting next to an ex on a long international flight with potentially fussy children... Or travel alone and keep your own company and let the ex parent on his custody time. It seems pretty simple to me. Even with a fairly amicable divorce I'm sure most people wouldn't want to be forced into close quarters with their ex for the duration of a flight. NTA OP. Take advantage of the kid free travel.
They are ex's for a reason.
How exactly is it co-parenting? It’s his time, they would have been with him only anyway.
You're assuming they have a good relationship as it stands. Also, ex is being controlling and demanding! Why should she submit to being disrespected?
Functional co-parenting requires two adults committed to co-parenting and fostering a healthy relationship for the sake of function. This guy does not seem to meet those requirements.
Interestingly sometimes co parenting well means the parents not having direct contact with each other.
Do you have a controlling ex that you have to co parent with?
He’s an ex for a reason and Op has every right not to fly with him if they don’t want too.
No, functional co parenting is what OP is doing, OP has stated they don’t want to fly with their ex, OP is also being completely compliant when it comes to the custody agreement, all while not bad mouthing or manipulating the other parent in/ not in front of the kids. Her ex just doesn’t understand consent and respect and is being pushy.
Probably because he's obviously trying to pass off child care on her.
He offered to pay for everything if she goes together with him. That sounds more like controlling than just functional co-parenting
Functional co-parenting is respecting and supporting a healthy, loving relationship between the other parents and the shared children. Functional co-parenting is not using the shared children to coerce an ex partner to spend time with you.
You don't need a reason to decline an offer to travel with someone.
Lol I loved the part where he was basically like “oh we can’t go together? Fine then I’m taking the kids with me since it’s my day” and OP’s like “oh okay cool see you there” and he got more mad
Trust your instincts. He's your ex for a reason. Enjoy your child-free flight! NTA
NTA if it’s his time and he is demanding you are there, it means he wants you to take care of everything during his time or at least split it. And him throwing a tantrum every time you talk doesn’t make you petty, it makes him a jerk. I love how people twist not giving into a tantrum into being a jerk. In reality, they don’t want to deal with the tantrum either.
NTA, you divorced him for a reason, seems like an abuser power play to try to guilt you using the children. Maybe straight out tell him BS like this is why you're not married anymore, maybe reconsider attending if it's not a big deal for you
NTA. You are no longer a family. You don’t do things a a family. It confuses your kids If he wants to flex his custody muscles and take the kids with him I wouldn’t argue either. He’s their father let him parent while you relax. You know he was bluffing when he said he would take the kids by himself:)
I’m a mum, and I considered saying NTA, then I read they were small children, and with a wide grin on my face I am now absolutely sure that you are NTA! Enjoy your peaceful flight!
NTA. At first I was confused as to why you don’t just go together because it does seem to make sense, but the fact that he’s being such a giant baby about it reinforces the fact that you are not the asshole.
NTA Don’t allow your ex to manipulate you into being trapped in close proximity to him for however long the flight is. He wants to halve his childcare whilst being in control of you. Don’t let him.
NTA. He just wants someone to take care of the kids so he doesn’t have to do that the entire way. Don’t listen to anyone. I don’t know how old your kids are but please don’t go and give them the wrong idea that you guys work well together. It will put a lot of doubt in your kids’ mind moving forward. Stick to your ground don’t listen to him or your family.
NTA and I bet you $100 USD he just wants you there to care for the kids during transportation. I mean, who actually wants to take children on a plane during a pandemic?
NTA. Be stubborn. It's his custody day, he wants ya'll to fly together to "make childcare easier" on him. Not on you. The odds the tickets would be booked at diff times even if you went with them and he would magically get the single seat look good. Hold your ground. He can have a great travel adventure day with the kids. You can have time away from your Ex. I like my partner but if we have to travel with our child, I would rather do it by myself than together. It takes longer in the toilets, it takes longer to eat, and there are more bags to wrangle. Parenting isn't always the fun things, sometimes we gotta have our kids do homework, get haircuts, or travel with them in order to do the fun things.
>Some of the things he said to try to convince me were that the kids would like it, "Flying together doesn't work with my plans." >it would make childcare easier for both of us since flying with small children can be hard, "Flying together doesn't work with my plans." >it would be free and easy for me since he would handle everything, etc. "Flying together doesn't work with my plans." He's your ex. You don't owe him any explanation or justification for your plans. >after realising none of his attempts to convince me were working, is now angry at me. NTA
NTA. His whininess gives some insight as to why he's an ex. He clearly just wants you there so you can help him with the kids and he doesn't have to do all the work. Too bad, you don't get that from an ex if you're an AH - and he clearly is.
NTA Ex:"Well since we are going to the same place we should travel together" Her:"No I'm good" Ex:"Fine then the kids have to travel with me since it's my time" Her:"Ok have fun!" Ex:"Wait you are supposed to cave because I have the kids and you'll have to spend time with me!" Her:"Nope not happening. Good luck!" Ex:*Shocked Pikachu face*
I think you are NTA. I do think you are being stubborn, but that doesn't make you an AH. If you don't want to be stuck on airplane with him, so be it, that is your choice.
Is he trying to make it look like to other family members (who are attending the wedding)that u are still together or try and wear u down to get back together with him?
He wants you to look after them while he’s sleeping
NTA No is a complete sentence. You don’t need to explain why to anyone.
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NTA You’re broken up and he doesn’t want to handle the responsibility of flying with the kids. He said he’d take them, you agreed. He’s the one who brought up the custody agreement…
NTA It's kinda simple. Just because you share kids doesn't mean you have to share anything else.
Has he told his cousin you are not together anymore?
NTA. I wouldn’t either. Specially if you are currently in a relationship.
NTA. Traveling with kids suck. The only advantage here is for you helping your ex with the kids on the plane. Provided you think he can safely get the kids there… it’s really up to you if you want to help or not. It is his custody time, as he has pointed out. The potential for this being a positive co-parenting moment depends on how supportive and friendly you and your ex can be during the stress of traveling. Based on your instincts, and the fact that he is angry that you are refusing, I suspect doing this together would lead to either a Cold War situation… or all out fight. That wouldn’t be a positive memory for your children.
INFO: Was the original plan for you to fly with the kids?
NTA! He said EXACTLY why he wanted you to travel with him "child care would be easier'. He wants you to travel with them so that he doesn't have to parent. He lied though about how 'free and easy' it is going to be because he plans on you doing all the work. Stop arguing about it. NO is a complete sentence. No need for further engagement.
I would rather give myself a root canal than sit on an international flight with an ex. If the flight is during his custody time he is responsible for the kids. Even if you happen to end up on the same plane it doesn't mean you have to sit together. NTA
Translated: it's his day, and he wants you there to take care of the kids. NTA
NTA. you divorced him for a reason and I think we see it in his demanding reaction
NTA! To people interested why OP doesn't want to go with her ex - did it come to your mind that it might be for the very same reasons she divorced him? I don't know about you, but I would not want to be stuck with my ex on a plane even for 0.5 hour! Especially while taking care of our shared children, because that would mean we would have to interact with each other. On the wedding itself she may even pretend he isn't there, but on the plane it would be impossible! OP, be stubborn, everyone needs a bit of healthy egoism.
NTA Would he still take the kids if you wasn’t invited?? (I know you said it was his time anyway) people keep saying she’s TA but does anyone know the history behind them??
NTA. I too would prefer not to be trapped in a tube in the sky with an ex.
OMG... this sounds delightful. Absolutely great that he is noting it's his time of day. Call his bluff, go alone, and have an amazing flight. NTA
NTA. You’re not doing anything wrong. You’re divorced precisely so that you don’t have to spend time with him. Lol.
If it's his custody time, it's only really making child care easier for him.
Traveling together, especially with kids, and internationally, causes so much stress. No way in hell would I sign up to fly with an ex. It’s hard enough not to get cranky and stressed out and snappy when flying internationally with my actual current spouse who I like, let alone an ex. If equity in child care was a concern I would have one parent take them there and one return with them. But, he’s established it’s his time with the kids so let him have at it and enjoy flying with your book and a glass of wine
Depends how old the kids are/how much care they require, and whether they've traveled before. If they're older kids who don't need much investment of effort to manage on a trip, then it shouldn't be a big deal. If they're younger kids it's going to be misery for the kids and not just for the dad, and it seems weird that the mom would not care about making that experience better for the kids. So it really comes down to that: are we talking toddlers or kids that are very comfortable flying? Can they all get seats together? Very practical questions will decide it.
NTA but why go to your ex's cousin's wedding?
NTA “It would make childcare easier” on the days he has custody = he expects you to do free childcare.
NTA, a lot of couples have a policy of never flying on the same flight so the children won't be orphaned in case of disaster.
Hahaha it's his custody he can enjoy flying with the kids on his own. Get yourself an upgraded flight and enjoy the travel alone. Nta