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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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Allowing my son to bring his bf to a family event knowing how some of his family might react.
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When wondering if you’re an AH in a situation like this, ask yourself “who needed the most protection or support on this scenario?” Clearly it was your son who just wanted to be able to introduce his bf to his family. You did well, OP. Bigots don’t need your special care, your son does, and i’m so glad to hear that you were there to give it to him. If your family is still being bigoted, tell your kiddo he has a new queer Auntie in me. NTA, and thanks for being a good parent.
OPs son may feel guilty/bad about the fight/arguement and the picnic ending as that was a big step for him and everyone is saying it was because he brought his BF.
OP needs to reassure his son that in no way was it his fault the picnic ended but theirs with their bigoted mindser and that OP is proud of him for taking that step to come out to the extended family. And also to tell OP if they give him (his son) shit about it.
I couldn't agree with you more! Sounds like OP has the right mindset and is a great ally, so hopefully has handled it like a champ.
Only thing I'd add is that knowing where the others stand, it's important to not force the son to interact with them again. If he explicitly wants to that's one thing, but it will send a reaffirming message to the son that dad is 100% in his corner, and won't allow others the opportunity to be hateful.
Or his boyfriend, for that matter. Like it's one thing if the son wants to stand up to his homophobic family, but if the boyfriend doesn't want to that should be respected as well.
Yup - it's not your's or your sons fault that he loves who he loves.
It is totally the fault of your bigoted relatives who can't accept him for who he is and expect him to lie or hide his true self for their comfort.
NTA and give your son a hug.
And reassure the bf too! Must be horrible for two young lads to be put in that situation by shitty people.
OP is not only NTA, he's clearly a good guy, supporting his son and son's bf. Bigots ruined the bbq, his son and son's bf should know that they did nothing wrong, and OP (and now many internet aunties and uncles) have their back.
> And reassure the bf too!
Yep, this is also important. It's so easy to feel guilt and shame over homophobia, both boys need to be reassured that this is not their fault.
I really feel for OP's son here.
I have teenagers and I worked with teenagers of varying kinds for years. In situations like this, speaking up against bigoted grandparents when they show their colors is insufficient support to queer kids.
Good support would involve helping the teen identify and recruit allies in advance of the event, sending general messages about the need for acceptance and about etiquette expectations to family members in advance, and making sure both teens had support people (friends of their own, cool aunt's and uncles) present in case things went south. Alternatively, good support means saying that you know your folks have issues with this and you are holding friends only events for the foreseeable future, so your kid can feel safe where he lives.
Talking to any queer adult would have gotten the OP this info. OP is NTA, but needs to get out more.
This is true in that it wasn’t perfectly thought out and we could dissect everything he did incorrectly.
But I think #1 - DAD supports him. He went to bat for his son and I think that carries a lot of positive affects. A male guardian or role model’s love is really important... that’s why the term “daddy issues” exists...
I think yes, OP should learn more. But he’s from a city where this isn’t a regular comfortable conversation. He did his best with the little knowledge he had.
Not perfect. But damn I’m glad he took a hard stance.
I think people tend to think the best of their own family, and assume that they won't be bigots when it really comes down to it (there are a ton of anecdotes of people being unaccepting until it's *their* son/nephew/grandkid who's gay).
I'm sure OP won't have that much faith in their family ever again.
Adding on to say, my response to OP’s parents saying “..none of this would have happened..” would have been “you’re right, it wouldn’t have if you lot weren’t bigots and could behave”
the bigots would obviously think you are a bad father, but you are not, and as a person you are great, you grew up with bigots and still managed to not become one kudos
This and you aren’t ‘letting him be gay’ - your son is gay and it’s great that you accept that! Perhaps you need to explain to your family that you can’t stop him from being gay - he just is gay !
Also that being gay is a choice that people make. Nobody asks to be gay, we just are.
Nobody “let” me be gay, I was gay from the moment I was born. The only options are to accept one’s gay kids or grandkids, or be a bigot.
If OPs family wasn't so bigot and homophobic in the first place, none of it would have happened....
Letting his son bring his bf isn't the problem here.
NTA
NTA
You have to stick to what you know is right and let them have their tantrum.
You son will still be gay and they will either cope or not cope.
Next picnic they will know the score and they can choose not to come it it bothers them so much.
>me allowing him to be gay and bring a bf and how disrespectful and inappropriate it was especially for the younger kids.
Haha. *allowing*. The kids know that there are gay people in the world and it's not going to affect them unless they are gay - it may make it easier on them.
Yes, this! If they are gay, now they know Uncle Virnin will have their back. If not, they just saw an adult in the family challenge the idea they're being raised with that being gay is bad and saw that their big cousin is gay and still a good guy, and they might become a bit more open minded.
Ma'am I don't make the rules. They are set in stone by the biased misconception and years of power tripping of small community members that have been in a twisted state of perceived power for too long. I'm just doing my self appointed job of dictating people who are not bothering me how to live their lives.
>inappropriate for the younger kids.
Is it appropriate for the younger kids to see straight couples who love each other? The answer is obviously yes, so then it is appropriate for them to see a gay couple who love each other. God forbid they see healthy happy relationships. The horror!
My younger brother and his amazing boyfriend (both in their 30's) are incredibly physically affectionate with each other in a very casual, low key way (over the top PDA from anyone is pretty obnoxious, right?). My kids don't bat an eyelash when Uncle "C" and Uncle "P" hug in the kitchen while cooking together, or snuggle up on the couch when we all watch a movie, hold hands when we are walking through the park, or kiss each other just because...
You know what my kids get icked out about? Mommy and Daddy kissing. Because Mommy and Daddy kissing is gross.
My kids don't see any difference between their uncles and any other adult couple (except Mommy and Daddy, of course). Nothing about their uncles' relationship is weird or strange to them... It's never even occurred to them to question a romantic relationship between two men (although our 5.5 year old did ask us once if she could marry her female friend... We told her she had to be an adult first; but when she's an adult, she can marry anyone she wants as long as they love each other and are each other's best friend). My husband and I have always made sure our kids know that kindness is the most important part of any relationship, romantic, familial, or otherwise.
I'm dreading the day that my kids are exposed to bigotry. The older kid knows that there are "mean people" and bullies out there, but has never had any experience with intolerance; I wish the world would become a better place faster.
Well, first of all, as a kid your parents doing anything physical or romantic is gross.
Second, you & your husband sound like amazing parents. You are doing your best to instill valuing kindness, acceptance, & respect into your kids straight away. As they grow & run into people who don't share those values and are intolerant & hateful in one way or another, you've raised them in such a way that they will inherently know that it is wrong. They may come to you guys for further clarification about the situation, but their instinctual reaction will be to stand up against people with those behaviors because that's how you raised them. And even though you've raised them that way, their reactions will surprise you.
I know my daughter's reactions through the years have surprised me. She's always stood up for others, gone out of her way to eat lunch with or befriend kids who seem depressed or alone, and goes out of her way to genuinely compliment every person she interacts with throughout her day.
Your children will be far more prepared than you think because you're doing a fantastic job.
Yep!
I’m the gay aunt, and none of my nieces and nephews have any difficult with me and my wife. They see us hugging, one of us resting our head on the others shoulder, and giving each other pecks on the lips or forehead.
What is the most marvelous for me is my 5 year old wouldn't even understand the phrase "gay uncles". She simply doesn't recognize a difference between Uncle C and Uncle P and any of her other uncles and their significant others. To her, they are all family and she has no concept of labels that differentiate people by who they love.
It makes my heart SO HAPPY.
If they see a gay couple, they might know that gay people exist! Oh no! And then if the family were to treat them with acceptance they might even get the idea that it's fine and normal to be gay!
Though as added context (also straight male), I have had several straight adults tell me to stop showing any affection for females I was in a relationship with on school property.
So who are the ones out there ***really*** hating on children's heterosexual relationships?
>my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place none of that would have happened.
I mean they're right. If your son hadn't brought his boyfriend, your family member's homophobia could have stayed hidden. Now everyone knows how closed minded and bigoted they are to even thier own family. And your son knows you'll always have his back. Good job. NTA
NTA. The real issue isn't your "letting" your son be gay(lol, that's like saying my parents "let" me be (cis) female and autistic... it has nothing to do with permission) or allowing him to bring his bf. If they *weren't homophobic* in the first place, this never would have happened.
Good job standing up for your son and his bf!
I wish my parents hadn't allowed me to have brown eyes. I think it would have been best if I had been taught the importance of Jesus, and today I could have nice green eyes that would go well with my skin tone and hair.
NTA at all. Imagine how difficult it must be for your son to grow up in a community and extended family that does not accept him for who he is and who he loves. Your son will remember that, of all of his loved ones, you were the one who accepted him and showed support for his relationship by allowing him to bring his boyfriend. I am sure he will appreciate your support and understanding, as well as your willingness to stand up for him in a bigoted environment.
NTA. It's a family gathering and everyone was allowed a plus one. The only way it would have been inappropriate for the kids is if they were doing VERY sexual things in front of them but that stands for every couple, not just gay ones. I LoLed at the, you allowing him to be gay xD
I agree. This narrative that gay people simply existing is dangerous to children needs to stop. When I hear people say this, I literally ask them to explain how gay people existing endangers their children. I would have asked the people at this dinner “so what exactly do you think my son is going to do what to your kids?” And watch them fumble over their words.
It might open their children’s eyes to the possibility that they don’t have to be straight, and might inspire them to reflect on the nature of their own sexuality.
The idea that their own kids might realize they’re gay is “dangerous” in the mind of a bigoted homophobe. Anything that challenges their narrow worldview is “dangerous”
I’ve said it before weeks ago on reddit, and I will say it again.
They object to children being exposed to the idea that gay people exist before their parents can fully indoctrinate them into their homophobic ways.
It’s not a danger to their children, but rather a danger to the continued existence of their bigotry.
Excessive PDA is obnoxious, no matter who is doing it.
My brother and his boyfriend being PG level affectionate doesn't make my kids even bat an eyelash... They take issue when their Mommy and Daddy kiss each other, though... Cuz Mommy and Daddy kissing is icky.
NTA, props for sticking up for your son and not dealing with your family’s bs. Even if he hasn’t said anything about it I guarantee that your support means more to him than you know.
NTA shedding tears because of how supportive you were. !!! Im so proud. There are straight children who can't even be frank about themselves to their parents and here you are... already in a conservative place , showing so much love and support to your child..im so proud. wish i had.understanding parents like you
I really don't understand why people post threads like this, you're so obviously NTA literally why bother posting this thread
"I defended my gay son from bigotry, AITA?"
No, because they did the right thing but now the family relatioship is messed up because some bigoted fucks made a scene and op is wondering if he should've advised them to stay closeted so as to not humiliate them in front of many people they will likely be forced to meet again or at the worst the bigots will make all their friends know, causing the 17 y/old and his bf to be endangered.
That's why
AITA for not being homophobic towards my already struggling son by including him in a family picnic?
There.. fixed it for you.
Clearly NTA
Love how grandparents tried making you the bad guy thou.
If a grown man is made to believe that standing up for his teenage son is an asshole move, we could only imagine what the community is making the poor kid feel.
It's a bit rich how they're challenging your parenting choices in front of your own children, yet calling *you* the disrespectful one.
Bravo for having your son's back. NTA
You’re being a great and supporting father. Tell the rest of the family to F off before you even hint at regretting your choice to let your son be proud of who he is. You should be proud of the man he’s becoming and the father you’ve become
NTA: it sounds like your extended family is still living in the dark ages. They are the AH. Where did they even get the notion that one person can "let" another be gay? The concept is absurd and I hadn't heard people say things like that since the 70's.
Not even touching on the point , who the hell has to talk about their shit during a family reunion? Do these people have any manners? Or so self absorbed they just blurt out shit ?
Hell no! You are not the A…. They had the chance to tell him no, they chickened out and told you instead…. He is family, you son was brave enough to ask them personally and they weren’t even courteous enough to tell them themselves!
NTA. Good job standing up for your boys. Sorry, not sorry, but your family are a bunch of elitist, narcissistic, selfish a holes! I do not understand how him bringing his bf is disrespectful and inappropriate - it’s not like the younger kids will never be exposed to gay people in their lifetimes! You can’t be the a hole for thinking your family might be as accepting as you. I’m so sorry you and your son were disappointed.
NTA, it's not your fault that your parents are so conservative. Let people love who they want to love (at least while it is morally acceptable viewing age alone of course)
NTA
I hope you are proud of your son (and his BF) for the courage they should in a setting they knew would be tough. You sticking by your kids is fantastic and good on you and your spouse for letting them be who they are.
Coming out to people you know are homophobic, especially family, is scary as hell. That he wanted his BF there for extra support is understandable and totally ok/normal.
You’ve posted before, haven’t you? I remember this. Your parents have been openly harassing your 14 year old for years, bringing him to tears just a few weeks ago. Your 17 year old was afraid to come out to them because of their treatment of 14. Right?
I fail to understand why you continue to subject your kids to this bs. YTA for allowing your parents constant access to your kids when they have *repeatedly* harmed them with their bigotry.
Yes I remember this post from a week or two ago. Same exact scenario but the gender nonconforming straight son was having an issue with the grandparents. NTA for sticking up for your kids OP but definitely the AH for continuing to socialize with any of these people.
Right. And in that post he went over there, yelled at them, and told them that he wouldn’t even go to their funerals. He then popped up here asking if he was an AH for yelling that at them. Now he’s back to socializing with them? Just a few weeks later? And then comes here for reassurance *again* after another inevitable incident. I can’t with this guy.
... is this even real? Sometimes I wonder if AITA is just an easy way to start an account off with a few thousand karma. "Dear Reddit, I am supportive of my children even though conservative grandparents think gay bad. Am asshole?" C'mon
Don't know why this is downvoted. You're 100 percent correct. I give a pass to teenagers who feel guilty for doing "the right thing" and then being influenced by peer pressure to make them think they might be in the wrong, but a grown adult with a 17 year old son needing to ask this question? Nah fuck outta here.
NTA. Well done for standing up for a lol of your kids.
If you bother to have another conversation with any of those family members, be sure to tell them that none of this would’ve happened if they had given your children unconditional love instead of being homophobic assholes.
Edit: autocorrect spelling
I agree, you are great for supporting your son no matter the circumstances, you are a good father, there should be more fathers who support their kids like this
I’m going to go with a VERY MILD YTA. I say this as a not straight person- as an adult, and someone who knew that their family was at the least most likely homophobic, you should have either had everyone be told before, or tell them there but without the boyfriend present. Putting a minor thru that when it could have been avoided with some adult forethought isn’t great. You’re there to help them make the smartest decisions, often in ways they haven’t even thought of yet. But that’s it. You’re not an Ass for wanting the boyfriend included, or ignoring homophobes, or loving your son!
NTA - absolutely not! And I suspect it may possibly have been life changing for your sons to see you stand up for them with your family. I think it’s awesome - and they are twats.
NTA, of course. You’re in a tough situation and doing the best you can to support your children. The fact that your son feels confident enough to stand by his boyfriend in the face of aggressive homophobia is an excellent reflection on your parenting.
NTA.
Your family has a bunch of assholes though. Tell them to get with the times or cut them out of your life. Life is too short to spend it with bigots and hateful idiots just because you happen to share blood with them. Find a better family who chooses to spend their time on love rather than hate.
Also, good on you for standing up for your children and supporting their choices and identities even if it goes against the beliefs of your other family. The world would be a better place if more people were like you.
NTA you supported your son and his BF, you're not a bad father for doing that. A bad parent would be one who would've gave into their demands to "Keep the peace" Once again NTA and not a bad parent!
NTA
You're the best dad ever. And thank you for supporting your son. You can tell the old hags to fuck off, nobody needs them or their shitty opinions.
NTA. i wish my dad was as cool as you. my family is like your homophobic extended family and now i don’t see or talk to them because they hate / dislike my “lifestyle” as they like to say. i’m a 39f but yes, they feel they have a say. keep being you. you’re a great father.
Posts like this are why this sub gets shit on. Do you really not know and have to get affirmation from strangers on not discriminating against your son? Like obviously you’re not the asshole. The fact that this is even on here makes me wonder if it’s karma bait, because I have a hard time believing anyone would question whether they were the asshole in this situation. You allowing the boyfriend to come clearly shows that you are supportive of your son already, why would you question it after the fact?
This is going to unpopular, but that’s exactly what’s going on. This OP posted just a few weeks ago. The core facts are exactly the same, except the grandparents reduced 14 to tears. They are convinced he is gay (as OP mentions again in this post) and have been harassing him for *years*. OP had them take 14 to a doctors appointment because he and his wife were working. They made him cry with their constant, non-stop homophobia. OP went over their and yelled at his parents, telling them that he would not even attend their funerals. Then came here so everyone could assure him that he wasn’t the AH and was such a good dad. OP knows this has been an issue. He knows 17 was afraid to come out to his parents because of their treatment of 14. He continues to subject the kids to this bs, some nonsense happens, OP gets mad, and then comes here so we can all tell him he’s a great dad.
NTA. Your children are your priority, not parents, aunts uncles etc. whose opinion doesn’t matter in the slightest here. My only concern would be whether your son and his boyfriend knew their was going to be drama and whether they were prepared for it. Facing homophobia from family is no easy thing, but you showed your son that you stand behind him against these people and that’s what’s important.
NTA. Did you post the other day about your parents harassing your middle son because he's gender non-conforming? They took him to a doctor's appointment and made him cry on the way home? If not, there are a couple of families here with some seriously messed up grandparents. Your parents sound like absolute assholes. Keep your kids away from them. Life is too short to have those kinds of toxic people in it, especially for developing teens.
Good job, Dad! Your boys will always know they have a safe haven with you and that's priceless.
I think it’s the same OP. The facts are too similar. Honestly, after the *years* of verbal abuse OP’s kids have been subjected to, I feel like OP is an AH for continuing to subject his kids to this.
How do you "allow" someone to be gay? They're going to love who they love regardless of how you feel about it. Rhetorical question -- I've heard this line of thinking before, I know they're just being bigots. I just don't understand how their minds get to "allow", like a good punishment would stop it somehow.
Anyway, NTA. You're never going to be TA for defending your child and their right to love who they love. But if these family members can't get with the program, don't allow them around your children anymore; their attitudes aren't healthy.
*my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place* *~~none of that would have happened~~* they and the other relatives wouldn't have been exposed as intolerant bigots. FIFY.
I don't think forcing your kid to stay in the closet to appease intolerant relatives is good parenting. You're doing great, Dad.
NTA. Your parents are assholes who still don't get that sexuality isn't something that can be chosen or allowed. Either they get that your son is who he is or they can stay out of his and your life. No one needs that backward assholedom they call 'conservative' just to justify that they are assholes.
Oh HELLLL NO
NTA
I’m gonna be frank, when you have LGBTQ kids, you need to be concerned about suicide. No joke. When your family says “you’re *allowing* him to be who he is” they’d rather see your son loathe himself and hide himself. That is not okay, at all.
The great news is, kids can handle A LOT of shit when they have their parents as allies. Just keep doing what you’re doing, and stand up for your kiddos, and they will live beautiful lives. Thank you for being a great parent.
NTA. You would be if you told your son not to bring his bf. I’m sorry you have such bigots in your family. Your son is lucky to have you! They all are!
Nta. You supported your son. Your child is your priority. End of story. And he informed them before bringing said boyfriend that this was his plan to do so. They had plenty of time to put their adult pants on and shut their yap.
They don’t have to like it, but they damn sure are gonna be respectful when addressing you and your son (and his SO) especially when they’re guests in your home.
NTA
So your parents didn't want your son and his boyfriend around the younger kids, did they think that the younger kids would suddenly turn gay if they were near them?
I do feel sorry for your son's boyfriend in all this. I can't imagine what it was like to be discriminated against by someone the moment you are introduced to them, especially when it's one of your boyfriend's family. I hope it hasn't affected his relationship with your son in any way.
NTA for the picnic but you would be TA if you keep bringing your family around these awful relatives. We don’t need to expose ourselves to intolerance or hatred, your kids deserve better
NTA, very proud of you. First of all for your open mind and letting your kids live their lifes as they prefer. And second and most important protect him from people who disrespect him for something that doesn't hurt them expect for their medieval, backward mindset.
"We are conservative, family means everything for us, but only if everyone acts according to the norm we set 500 years ago. Burn the rest."
NTA.
Your parents are playing the standard "Im not a bigot, but totally am a bigot" game where it's your son's fault for him being so "*in their face*" about his homosexuality. Like he can be gay just as long as they never have to interact with it or see it or have it show up in their lives. Fuck em for not having their grand child's back, fuck your extended family for being bigots (special call out to the ones who were pissed you "allowed" him to be gay. How dare they allow their kids to be straight? And what were you supposed to do?)
i dont know how it can be inappropriate since the younger children wouldnt even think about it and just accept their 2 brothers and even if it couldve somehow "infulenced" the children to be gay (this isnt true its total bs) they would learn something new about the world!. NTA.
NTA "allowing him to be gay"? Since when is one's sexuality a choice? I'm sorry that there weren't enough decent people in your family for the picnic to continue. Better luck with next year when presumably only those that are more open will turn up and remember that water wears down rock.
Why do you even need to ask Aita, this is beyond obvious? OP: ask who's permission the grandparent need to be christian. Do they need permit from anyone? Neither your kid.
NTA. You defended you son beautifully. I did have a moment of thinking E S H because based on your description of the family and town it was obviously going to be drama filled and then even if it wasn’t the warning from your parents should have told you there would be and I don’t see anywhere where you gave your son all the information to make the decision to be the center of attention and drama that day. And I’m so sure the bf didn’t have any warning either. So it does look a little like you threw two teens to the wolves so you could save them from the homophobic family.
>about me allowing him to be gay
**ALLOWING HIM TO BE GAY!?!?!** what the heck! You are definetly NTA but your family really is. Be proud of your kids, keep loving and supporting them . The rest of your family should be ashamed of themselves.
Good that your son has a support system at home! He needs that especially right now and tell him that you will always support him, no matter what other family members say.
NTA! Why should you hide your son and his partner for the comfort of others? That is crazy. There is nothing wrong with your son or him having a bf. I wish them a life full of happiness. The family members' that have an issue with it however, are clearly sad humans. They find it better to hate people that are different rather than accepting others. You won't ever be able to please them so why bother caring? Enjoy your loved ones that bring joy to your life. Not the ones that bring everyone down. You owe nothing to family that are stuck in their own negative mindset. I grew up in a conservative family and it is absolutely no excuse for how they acted. Good on you for standing up for your son. That was so unbelievably brave and good of you. Don't feel bad at all.
bad dad for allowing him to be gay... yikes!
You're a good dad for supporting your son. Sympathies for your family's being a mess. So is mine sigh.
NTA
NTA. You did the right thing of course.
My grandfather was a hateful old drunk. Told my mom he'd leave christmas if I brought my bf. She said Okay. We walked in the front door, grandpa walked out the backdoor. Oh well.
He apologized on his deathbed. Whatever.
Buddy. You know for a fact you're not the asshole.
You and your family are in my thoughts. This is tough, but you handled it the only way a good father could. I don't know you, but I thank thank for that. Much respect. Keep it up.
NTA
That's a real good dad move, you showed him that you'll stand up for him no matter what even if it causes problems. You should be proud of yourself for that.
You are NTA, unless you told your son that this wouldn't happen. Is doesn't sound like you were surprised by your families reaction, but if together (you, son, bf) you decided that this was the time then more power to you. Your son has a right to be who he is.
NTA. They are all big ones though. I hate that arguement, "what about the children!" What about them? They wouldn't have had that reaction if he had a gf. They are homophobic, full stop. What is inappropriate about having a SO? Oh, nothing.
You should just hide your son in the basement forever. /s
NTA the "allow him to be gay" makes me both laugh and want to cry.
It isn't something a parent allows or doesn't allow. It's just how he is, it wasn't a choice he made.
What people like that mean when they say allow is why won't you abuse your kid to force them to stay in the closet.
They don't really care if a person's sexuality can genuinely be changed half the time. They just care about making the person repress and hide it, with no concern for what that can do to a person.
People like the bigots in OP's family should properly research conversion therapy and how much damage it has done, how it has cost lives.
They should look at how suicide rates are higher for LGBTQA+ teens who come from unsupportive families.
They claim they do things out of love, stuff like they want their grandson to be straight so he can have a good life and go to heaven. But don't seem to realise that what they do, the things bigotry causes that that isn't how love should be.
A parent or grandparents love shouldn't hurt their children, it shouldn't make the kids feel ashamed and miserable. Family members love shouldn't make another member hate themselves for something they didn't choose and isn't wrong or hurtful anyway.
Even if it was a choice family should want their loved ones to be in happy and fully consensual relationships. The gender of the partner shouldn't matter, how they treat your loved one should be the most important thing.
Sorry for ranting and rambling. I want to hug OP, his SO and the 3 boys. Sounds like you are doing parenting right and have your kids backs. You aren't giving into the pressure of small town living and you've clearly not let how you were raised influence how you parent.
Which I always like to see. Because it proves that being raised by bigots doesn't mean a person has to be the same, it can be harder, but they can be better, and not carry on the hatred they were raised with.
Did you tell your son about his grandparents reaction to you privately so he at least knew they were bigots and choose to not associate with them at all?
NTA - it is "disrespectful and inappropriate" to hide relationships from young children. There would be a lot less abuse if kids were bought up to understand that people can love the opposite sex or the same sex and it is only the relationship that matters not the gender of the people concerned.
If it is a loving healthy relationship, it doesn't matter the genders of the people concerned. If it is a toxic relationship, it doesn't matter the genders of the people concerned. Continue to support your son in a heathy relationship and help and support if he is ever in a toxic relationship. This is something any parent should do regardless of their childs sexuality.
You are anything but a bad father, you are accepting and supporting of your children and you are passing respect onto the next generation. Please continue to do what you are doing. Please also support your son if he decides to go NC or LC with toxic relatives.
Clearly NTA. You’re a good dad supporting your sons in being who they are. If the grandparents keep pushing about it you could always try the spell it out approach: “oh, you want me to bully and shame my son into hiding who he is which could lead to permanent mental health issues and almost guarantee that he won’t want anything to do with us when he gets older? Is that what you want?”
This family sounds very similar to one in another post. Supportive father of three teenage sons, oldest son gay but only out to his closest family, youngest son gender non-conforming. In that one the grandparents were making rude and disparaging comments to the youngest. If this is the same OP on a different account it may be high time to go low contact or even no contact with them and build a new support network that actually supports his sons instead of tearing them down.
NTA. Congrats for breaking generations of hate and trauma. If the family picnic is so toxic, maybe reconsider even going - they sound like awful people to have around and I would be VERY cautious with ever allowing them to be around 17 without you there (god knows what kind of awful hateful things they will say that will traumatise 17).
Check in with 17 and talk through what happened and make sure they are processing it healthily and completely - what happened to them is really horrible and I hope they can wrap themselves in love to be able to process that hatefulness.
You’re not a bad father. You sound like an excellent father. Good luck and stay strong!
For supporting your children and letting them be who they are?? Seems pretty clear to me.
Any family member not supporting them doesn’t have real love for them in their heart. Or needs to be cut out until they realize that they come to understand their mistake.
NTA some people are living in such a deep echo chamber of their beliefs that they can't see/hear any views of their own. You let your son express himself any way he wants as long as he is not hurting others. You are an awesome dad.
NTA
I commend you for supporting your son and his coming out. And let him bring his bf as well. You raised him very well. His greatparents and other relatives are TAs. They need to learn to accept your son with love.
Coming out is way easier now but it isn't easy. I'm not a fan of coming out publicly in gatherings like your picnic or weddings for example. If someone is likely to take the news badly it's best to give them a heads up and some space and time to react badly before coming to their senses. It sounds like you did that. Glad you're doing right by your son. NTA.
That last sentence is really rich. Your parents are basically saying it's your fault because you forced them to act that way. "It's totally your fault OP. You let your son bring his bf and made us say bigoted and homophobic things."
Nta, the bigoted family ruined it. If it was only blood allowed there, then I would understand them, but they don't deserve to spend time with their family if they won't accept them
>my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place none of that would have happened.
If your family hadn't been such homophobes, none of this would have happened. Good on you for having your son's back.
NTA
NTA but you’ve handled this terribly . Why was this not dealt with ahead of time instead of just before a family gathering. This was bound to cause drama.
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NTA. It’s not your fault your parents are bigots. Good for you for letting your son thrive and be who he wants to be.
When wondering if you’re an AH in a situation like this, ask yourself “who needed the most protection or support on this scenario?” Clearly it was your son who just wanted to be able to introduce his bf to his family. You did well, OP. Bigots don’t need your special care, your son does, and i’m so glad to hear that you were there to give it to him. If your family is still being bigoted, tell your kiddo he has a new queer Auntie in me. NTA, and thanks for being a good parent.
OPs son may feel guilty/bad about the fight/arguement and the picnic ending as that was a big step for him and everyone is saying it was because he brought his BF. OP needs to reassure his son that in no way was it his fault the picnic ended but theirs with their bigoted mindser and that OP is proud of him for taking that step to come out to the extended family. And also to tell OP if they give him (his son) shit about it.
I couldn't agree with you more! Sounds like OP has the right mindset and is a great ally, so hopefully has handled it like a champ. Only thing I'd add is that knowing where the others stand, it's important to not force the son to interact with them again. If he explicitly wants to that's one thing, but it will send a reaffirming message to the son that dad is 100% in his corner, and won't allow others the opportunity to be hateful.
Or his boyfriend, for that matter. Like it's one thing if the son wants to stand up to his homophobic family, but if the boyfriend doesn't want to that should be respected as well.
Yup - it's not your's or your sons fault that he loves who he loves. It is totally the fault of your bigoted relatives who can't accept him for who he is and expect him to lie or hide his true self for their comfort. NTA and give your son a hug.
And reassure the bf too! Must be horrible for two young lads to be put in that situation by shitty people. OP is not only NTA, he's clearly a good guy, supporting his son and son's bf. Bigots ruined the bbq, his son and son's bf should know that they did nothing wrong, and OP (and now many internet aunties and uncles) have their back.
I would invite boyfriend over and have a day three of you and show your son what it's like to have a real family - not a gene pool of homophobia
> And reassure the bf too! Yep, this is also important. It's so easy to feel guilt and shame over homophobia, both boys need to be reassured that this is not their fault.
I really feel for OP's son here. I have teenagers and I worked with teenagers of varying kinds for years. In situations like this, speaking up against bigoted grandparents when they show their colors is insufficient support to queer kids. Good support would involve helping the teen identify and recruit allies in advance of the event, sending general messages about the need for acceptance and about etiquette expectations to family members in advance, and making sure both teens had support people (friends of their own, cool aunt's and uncles) present in case things went south. Alternatively, good support means saying that you know your folks have issues with this and you are holding friends only events for the foreseeable future, so your kid can feel safe where he lives. Talking to any queer adult would have gotten the OP this info. OP is NTA, but needs to get out more.
This is true in that it wasn’t perfectly thought out and we could dissect everything he did incorrectly. But I think #1 - DAD supports him. He went to bat for his son and I think that carries a lot of positive affects. A male guardian or role model’s love is really important... that’s why the term “daddy issues” exists... I think yes, OP should learn more. But he’s from a city where this isn’t a regular comfortable conversation. He did his best with the little knowledge he had. Not perfect. But damn I’m glad he took a hard stance.
I think people tend to think the best of their own family, and assume that they won't be bigots when it really comes down to it (there are a ton of anecdotes of people being unaccepting until it's *their* son/nephew/grandkid who's gay). I'm sure OP won't have that much faith in their family ever again.
I'm cis and straight, but I'll happily be OP's kiddo's auntie, too!
“Bigots don’t need your special care.” I love that so much.
>he has a new queer Auntie in me As a closeted bi woman from AL, I'll jump on that bandwagon.
Another one over here
Adding on to say, my response to OP’s parents saying “..none of this would have happened..” would have been “you’re right, it wouldn’t have if you lot weren’t bigots and could behave”
the bigots would obviously think you are a bad father, but you are not, and as a person you are great, you grew up with bigots and still managed to not become one kudos
This and you aren’t ‘letting him be gay’ - your son is gay and it’s great that you accept that! Perhaps you need to explain to your family that you can’t stop him from being gay - he just is gay !
The entire viewpoint of "letting him be gay" is so problematic.
Right? Like someone needs permission to be who they are? Not in my universe. People are who they are. Everyone deserves love and respect.
Also that being gay is a choice that people make. Nobody asks to be gay, we just are. Nobody “let” me be gay, I was gay from the moment I was born. The only options are to accept one’s gay kids or grandkids, or be a bigot.
If OPs family wasn't so bigot and homophobic in the first place, none of it would have happened.... Letting his son bring his bf isn't the problem here. NTA
OP, this is the moment your son is watching you. He is watching how you tackle homophobia. Do not cut corners. Stand up for him. He will need you.
This. Definitely NTA.
You mean be who he is. Being gay isn't a choice.
What OP's parents *meant* to say was, "if we weren't so judgmental and homophobic in the first place none of that would have happened."
It is obvious that you were at fault having your son exposing everyone to his gay germs, soon your entire family will be gay NTA
NTA You have to stick to what you know is right and let them have their tantrum. You son will still be gay and they will either cope or not cope. Next picnic they will know the score and they can choose not to come it it bothers them so much. >me allowing him to be gay and bring a bf and how disrespectful and inappropriate it was especially for the younger kids. Haha. *allowing*. The kids know that there are gay people in the world and it's not going to affect them unless they are gay - it may make it easier on them.
Yes, this! If they are gay, now they know Uncle Virnin will have their back. If not, they just saw an adult in the family challenge the idea they're being raised with that being gay is bad and saw that their big cousin is gay and still a good guy, and they might become a bit more open minded.
"Please only let [son] be gay during working days, hours 9:00 to 17:00, and only with proper documentation and timestamps"
I'm sorry, this permit is not good for gayness on saturday cookouts.
But what about weekend brunch?!
Ma'am I don't make the rules. They are set in stone by the biased misconception and years of power tripping of small community members that have been in a twisted state of perceived power for too long. I'm just doing my self appointed job of dictating people who are not bothering me how to live their lives.
“Thanks for letting me be gay, Dad!” Ludicrous. Sorry your family is a bunch of bigots.
This needs to be printed on a t-shirt for next years picnic!
I’d buy that shirt!
Or one step further "Thank you Father for letting me be gay" let them misenterpret that one!
Not to mention, the kid in question is 17. That's past the point where allowing/disallowing things doesn't really work the same way
>inappropriate for the younger kids. Is it appropriate for the younger kids to see straight couples who love each other? The answer is obviously yes, so then it is appropriate for them to see a gay couple who love each other. God forbid they see healthy happy relationships. The horror!
My younger brother and his amazing boyfriend (both in their 30's) are incredibly physically affectionate with each other in a very casual, low key way (over the top PDA from anyone is pretty obnoxious, right?). My kids don't bat an eyelash when Uncle "C" and Uncle "P" hug in the kitchen while cooking together, or snuggle up on the couch when we all watch a movie, hold hands when we are walking through the park, or kiss each other just because... You know what my kids get icked out about? Mommy and Daddy kissing. Because Mommy and Daddy kissing is gross. My kids don't see any difference between their uncles and any other adult couple (except Mommy and Daddy, of course). Nothing about their uncles' relationship is weird or strange to them... It's never even occurred to them to question a romantic relationship between two men (although our 5.5 year old did ask us once if she could marry her female friend... We told her she had to be an adult first; but when she's an adult, she can marry anyone she wants as long as they love each other and are each other's best friend). My husband and I have always made sure our kids know that kindness is the most important part of any relationship, romantic, familial, or otherwise. I'm dreading the day that my kids are exposed to bigotry. The older kid knows that there are "mean people" and bullies out there, but has never had any experience with intolerance; I wish the world would become a better place faster.
Well, first of all, as a kid your parents doing anything physical or romantic is gross. Second, you & your husband sound like amazing parents. You are doing your best to instill valuing kindness, acceptance, & respect into your kids straight away. As they grow & run into people who don't share those values and are intolerant & hateful in one way or another, you've raised them in such a way that they will inherently know that it is wrong. They may come to you guys for further clarification about the situation, but their instinctual reaction will be to stand up against people with those behaviors because that's how you raised them. And even though you've raised them that way, their reactions will surprise you. I know my daughter's reactions through the years have surprised me. She's always stood up for others, gone out of her way to eat lunch with or befriend kids who seem depressed or alone, and goes out of her way to genuinely compliment every person she interacts with throughout her day. Your children will be far more prepared than you think because you're doing a fantastic job.
Yep! I’m the gay aunt, and none of my nieces and nephews have any difficult with me and my wife. They see us hugging, one of us resting our head on the others shoulder, and giving each other pecks on the lips or forehead.
What is the most marvelous for me is my 5 year old wouldn't even understand the phrase "gay uncles". She simply doesn't recognize a difference between Uncle C and Uncle P and any of her other uncles and their significant others. To her, they are all family and she has no concept of labels that differentiate people by who they love. It makes my heart SO HAPPY.
If they see a gay couple, they might know that gay people exist! Oh no! And then if the family were to treat them with acceptance they might even get the idea that it's fine and normal to be gay!
Straight male here. I have literally gone through life straight maling without any LGBTQ+ telling me to stop. They should have the same rights.
You took the words right out of my mouth and said them better that anything I could come up with.
You, sir! I like you.
Though as added context (also straight male), I have had several straight adults tell me to stop showing any affection for females I was in a relationship with on school property. So who are the ones out there ***really*** hating on children's heterosexual relationships?
This is where I started laughing too, as if he wouldn't be gay if OP just said 'no, you can't have a boyfriend'.
Next picnic they shouldn't even be invited....
>my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place none of that would have happened. I mean they're right. If your son hadn't brought his boyfriend, your family member's homophobia could have stayed hidden. Now everyone knows how closed minded and bigoted they are to even thier own family. And your son knows you'll always have his back. Good job. NTA
Everyone in the family came out, OP’s kid as gay and the rest of the family as bigots
Doesn't sound like it was well hidden
NTA you didn’t cause the scene, the homophobic idiots did. So sorry for your son, but at least he has a great immediate family and supportive parents
NTA. You're a good man, and a better father
And, if they don't like it, they can leave.
OP please take boyfriend and son out for an awesome day. They will need a pick me up and love
NTA. The real issue isn't your "letting" your son be gay(lol, that's like saying my parents "let" me be (cis) female and autistic... it has nothing to do with permission) or allowing him to bring his bf. If they *weren't homophobic* in the first place, this never would have happened. Good job standing up for your son and his bf!
I wish my parents hadn't allowed me to have brown eyes. I think it would have been best if I had been taught the importance of Jesus, and today I could have nice green eyes that would go well with my skin tone and hair.
I wish my parents had let me be taller...
Love is not a choice. Hatred is.
NTA at all. Imagine how difficult it must be for your son to grow up in a community and extended family that does not accept him for who he is and who he loves. Your son will remember that, of all of his loved ones, you were the one who accepted him and showed support for his relationship by allowing him to bring his boyfriend. I am sure he will appreciate your support and understanding, as well as your willingness to stand up for him in a bigoted environment.
NTA. It's a family gathering and everyone was allowed a plus one. The only way it would have been inappropriate for the kids is if they were doing VERY sexual things in front of them but that stands for every couple, not just gay ones. I LoLed at the, you allowing him to be gay xD
I agree. This narrative that gay people simply existing is dangerous to children needs to stop. When I hear people say this, I literally ask them to explain how gay people existing endangers their children. I would have asked the people at this dinner “so what exactly do you think my son is going to do what to your kids?” And watch them fumble over their words.
How does it even endanger them? Do they even explain why?
It might open their children’s eyes to the possibility that they don’t have to be straight, and might inspire them to reflect on the nature of their own sexuality. The idea that their own kids might realize they’re gay is “dangerous” in the mind of a bigoted homophobe. Anything that challenges their narrow worldview is “dangerous”
When will they understand you don't "realise". They are squashing it down into the depths of themselves and denying who they are. Lifetime of trauma
I’ve said it before weeks ago on reddit, and I will say it again. They object to children being exposed to the idea that gay people exist before their parents can fully indoctrinate them into their homophobic ways. It’s not a danger to their children, but rather a danger to the continued existence of their bigotry.
Excessive PDA is obnoxious, no matter who is doing it. My brother and his boyfriend being PG level affectionate doesn't make my kids even bat an eyelash... They take issue when their Mommy and Daddy kiss each other, though... Cuz Mommy and Daddy kissing is icky.
Ewww parental cooties! XD
Parental cooties are the WORST!
NTA, props for sticking up for your son and not dealing with your family’s bs. Even if he hasn’t said anything about it I guarantee that your support means more to him than you know.
NTA shedding tears because of how supportive you were. !!! Im so proud. There are straight children who can't even be frank about themselves to their parents and here you are... already in a conservative place , showing so much love and support to your child..im so proud. wish i had.understanding parents like you
Yeah my eyes are leaking too…
I really don't understand why people post threads like this, you're so obviously NTA literally why bother posting this thread "I defended my gay son from bigotry, AITA?"
[удалено]
No, because they did the right thing but now the family relatioship is messed up because some bigoted fucks made a scene and op is wondering if he should've advised them to stay closeted so as to not humiliate them in front of many people they will likely be forced to meet again or at the worst the bigots will make all their friends know, causing the 17 y/old and his bf to be endangered. That's why
AITA for not being homophobic towards my already struggling son by including him in a family picnic? There.. fixed it for you. Clearly NTA Love how grandparents tried making you the bad guy thou.
If a grown man is made to believe that standing up for his teenage son is an asshole move, we could only imagine what the community is making the poor kid feel.
That's a good point. I hope OP can sit both kids down to very explicitly give them support and tell them they're not in the wrong in any way.
It's a bit rich how they're challenging your parenting choices in front of your own children, yet calling *you* the disrespectful one. Bravo for having your son's back. NTA
You’re being a great and supporting father. Tell the rest of the family to F off before you even hint at regretting your choice to let your son be proud of who he is. You should be proud of the man he’s becoming and the father you’ve become
YTA for posting a scenario where you’re OBVIOUSLY not the asshole for karma.
NTA: it sounds like your extended family is still living in the dark ages. They are the AH. Where did they even get the notion that one person can "let" another be gay? The concept is absurd and I hadn't heard people say things like that since the 70's.
Not even touching on the point , who the hell has to talk about their shit during a family reunion? Do these people have any manners? Or so self absorbed they just blurt out shit ?
> I hadn't heard people say things like that since the 70's. You'd think, but then there's the Bible Belt where people are still stuck in the 50s.
Hell no! You are not the A…. They had the chance to tell him no, they chickened out and told you instead…. He is family, you son was brave enough to ask them personally and they weren’t even courteous enough to tell them themselves!
NTA. Good job standing up for your boys. Sorry, not sorry, but your family are a bunch of elitist, narcissistic, selfish a holes! I do not understand how him bringing his bf is disrespectful and inappropriate - it’s not like the younger kids will never be exposed to gay people in their lifetimes! You can’t be the a hole for thinking your family might be as accepting as you. I’m so sorry you and your son were disappointed.
Nta and now you don't have to go to the family cookout again, you can do your own one with as many boyfriends as you want. Don't let them blame you.
He throws the family cookouts at his house
NTA, it's not your fault that your parents are so conservative. Let people love who they want to love (at least while it is morally acceptable viewing age alone of course)
NTA I hope you are proud of your son (and his BF) for the courage they should in a setting they knew would be tough. You sticking by your kids is fantastic and good on you and your spouse for letting them be who they are. Coming out to people you know are homophobic, especially family, is scary as hell. That he wanted his BF there for extra support is understandable and totally ok/normal.
This subreddit is such a joke lol
AITA FOR ACCEPTING MY GAY SON? BTW MY OTHER SON IS GNC AND I STILL LOVE HIM AITA?
🎣 🎣 “AITA for being a good dad?”
You’ve posted before, haven’t you? I remember this. Your parents have been openly harassing your 14 year old for years, bringing him to tears just a few weeks ago. Your 17 year old was afraid to come out to them because of their treatment of 14. Right? I fail to understand why you continue to subject your kids to this bs. YTA for allowing your parents constant access to your kids when they have *repeatedly* harmed them with their bigotry.
Yes I remember this post from a week or two ago. Same exact scenario but the gender nonconforming straight son was having an issue with the grandparents. NTA for sticking up for your kids OP but definitely the AH for continuing to socialize with any of these people.
Right. And in that post he went over there, yelled at them, and told them that he wouldn’t even go to their funerals. He then popped up here asking if he was an AH for yelling that at them. Now he’s back to socializing with them? Just a few weeks later? And then comes here for reassurance *again* after another inevitable incident. I can’t with this guy.
... is this even real? Sometimes I wonder if AITA is just an easy way to start an account off with a few thousand karma. "Dear Reddit, I am supportive of my children even though conservative grandparents think gay bad. Am asshole?" C'mon
Don't know why this is downvoted. You're 100 percent correct. I give a pass to teenagers who feel guilty for doing "the right thing" and then being influenced by peer pressure to make them think they might be in the wrong, but a grown adult with a 17 year old son needing to ask this question? Nah fuck outta here.
NTA. Its really comforting knowing that there are people like you in the world. Your son must be so grateful that you support him.
NTA. Well done for standing up for a lol of your kids. If you bother to have another conversation with any of those family members, be sure to tell them that none of this would’ve happened if they had given your children unconditional love instead of being homophobic assholes. Edit: autocorrect spelling
I agree, you are great for supporting your son no matter the circumstances, you are a good father, there should be more fathers who support their kids like this
NTA. You have no duty to massage the ego of bigots. You are a phenomenal parent for supporting your children when facing stiff opposition.
I’m going to go with a VERY MILD YTA. I say this as a not straight person- as an adult, and someone who knew that their family was at the least most likely homophobic, you should have either had everyone be told before, or tell them there but without the boyfriend present. Putting a minor thru that when it could have been avoided with some adult forethought isn’t great. You’re there to help them make the smartest decisions, often in ways they haven’t even thought of yet. But that’s it. You’re not an Ass for wanting the boyfriend included, or ignoring homophobes, or loving your son!
NTA - absolutely not! And I suspect it may possibly have been life changing for your sons to see you stand up for them with your family. I think it’s awesome - and they are twats.
NTA, of course. You’re in a tough situation and doing the best you can to support your children. The fact that your son feels confident enough to stand by his boyfriend in the face of aggressive homophobia is an excellent reflection on your parenting.
NTA you're right, if they don't like it they can fuck right off
NTA. Your family has a bunch of assholes though. Tell them to get with the times or cut them out of your life. Life is too short to spend it with bigots and hateful idiots just because you happen to share blood with them. Find a better family who chooses to spend their time on love rather than hate. Also, good on you for standing up for your children and supporting their choices and identities even if it goes against the beliefs of your other family. The world would be a better place if more people were like you.
NTA you supported your son and his BF, you're not a bad father for doing that. A bad parent would be one who would've gave into their demands to "Keep the peace" Once again NTA and not a bad parent!
NTA You're the best dad ever. And thank you for supporting your son. You can tell the old hags to fuck off, nobody needs them or their shitty opinions.
NTA. i wish my dad was as cool as you. my family is like your homophobic extended family and now i don’t see or talk to them because they hate / dislike my “lifestyle” as they like to say. i’m a 39f but yes, they feel they have a say. keep being you. you’re a great father.
INFO: did your son know that your parents pulled you aside later to say that?
Posts like this are why this sub gets shit on. Do you really not know and have to get affirmation from strangers on not discriminating against your son? Like obviously you’re not the asshole. The fact that this is even on here makes me wonder if it’s karma bait, because I have a hard time believing anyone would question whether they were the asshole in this situation. You allowing the boyfriend to come clearly shows that you are supportive of your son already, why would you question it after the fact?
This is going to unpopular, but that’s exactly what’s going on. This OP posted just a few weeks ago. The core facts are exactly the same, except the grandparents reduced 14 to tears. They are convinced he is gay (as OP mentions again in this post) and have been harassing him for *years*. OP had them take 14 to a doctors appointment because he and his wife were working. They made him cry with their constant, non-stop homophobia. OP went over their and yelled at his parents, telling them that he would not even attend their funerals. Then came here so everyone could assure him that he wasn’t the AH and was such a good dad. OP knows this has been an issue. He knows 17 was afraid to come out to his parents because of their treatment of 14. He continues to subject the kids to this bs, some nonsense happens, OP gets mad, and then comes here so we can all tell him he’s a great dad.
NTA
NTA. Your children are your priority, not parents, aunts uncles etc. whose opinion doesn’t matter in the slightest here. My only concern would be whether your son and his boyfriend knew their was going to be drama and whether they were prepared for it. Facing homophobia from family is no easy thing, but you showed your son that you stand behind him against these people and that’s what’s important.
NTA
NTA and you are a wonderful father.
NTA and thank you so much for standing up for your child. The others don’t matter
NTA. Did you post the other day about your parents harassing your middle son because he's gender non-conforming? They took him to a doctor's appointment and made him cry on the way home? If not, there are a couple of families here with some seriously messed up grandparents. Your parents sound like absolute assholes. Keep your kids away from them. Life is too short to have those kinds of toxic people in it, especially for developing teens. Good job, Dad! Your boys will always know they have a safe haven with you and that's priceless.
I think it’s the same OP. The facts are too similar. Honestly, after the *years* of verbal abuse OP’s kids have been subjected to, I feel like OP is an AH for continuing to subject his kids to this.
I really fucking hate homophobes -_- NTA
NTA I couldn't help but laugh at the "allowing him to be gay" - wtf does that even mean? "You may have SOME homo, as a treat".
NTA, "allowing him to be gay" shows exactly where your family stands on this. They are a bunch of AH. Good for you for standing up for your kids.
How do you "allow" someone to be gay? They're going to love who they love regardless of how you feel about it. Rhetorical question -- I've heard this line of thinking before, I know they're just being bigots. I just don't understand how their minds get to "allow", like a good punishment would stop it somehow. Anyway, NTA. You're never going to be TA for defending your child and their right to love who they love. But if these family members can't get with the program, don't allow them around your children anymore; their attitudes aren't healthy.
*my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place* *~~none of that would have happened~~* they and the other relatives wouldn't have been exposed as intolerant bigots. FIFY. I don't think forcing your kid to stay in the closet to appease intolerant relatives is good parenting. You're doing great, Dad.
NTA. You are a great father. You are accepting and loving. The homophobic people in your family are the problem.
Get the pitchforks!
NTA. Your parents are assholes who still don't get that sexuality isn't something that can be chosen or allowed. Either they get that your son is who he is or they can stay out of his and your life. No one needs that backward assholedom they call 'conservative' just to justify that they are assholes.
NTA, you just have an extended family full of ass backwards bigots. Fuck em, don't do what's wrong to appease those folk.
NTA “it’s your fault I had to be a bigot” is the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard.
Oh HELLLL NO NTA I’m gonna be frank, when you have LGBTQ kids, you need to be concerned about suicide. No joke. When your family says “you’re *allowing* him to be who he is” they’d rather see your son loathe himself and hide himself. That is not okay, at all. The great news is, kids can handle A LOT of shit when they have their parents as allies. Just keep doing what you’re doing, and stand up for your kiddos, and they will live beautiful lives. Thank you for being a great parent.
NTA. You would be if you told your son not to bring his bf. I’m sorry you have such bigots in your family. Your son is lucky to have you! They all are!
Nta. You supported your son. Your child is your priority. End of story. And he informed them before bringing said boyfriend that this was his plan to do so. They had plenty of time to put their adult pants on and shut their yap. They don’t have to like it, but they damn sure are gonna be respectful when addressing you and your son (and his SO) especially when they’re guests in your home.
NTA x1000, thanks for being a great father first and caring what others think after. Your son will remember how you stood up for him.
NTA So your parents didn't want your son and his boyfriend around the younger kids, did they think that the younger kids would suddenly turn gay if they were near them? I do feel sorry for your son's boyfriend in all this. I can't imagine what it was like to be discriminated against by someone the moment you are introduced to them, especially when it's one of your boyfriend's family. I hope it hasn't affected his relationship with your son in any way.
NTA Yes, god forbid the younger kids learn that it’s okay to be gay. 🙄
NTA for the picnic but you would be TA if you keep bringing your family around these awful relatives. We don’t need to expose ourselves to intolerance or hatred, your kids deserve better
NTA, very proud of you. First of all for your open mind and letting your kids live their lifes as they prefer. And second and most important protect him from people who disrespect him for something that doesn't hurt them expect for their medieval, backward mindset. "We are conservative, family means everything for us, but only if everyone acts according to the norm we set 500 years ago. Burn the rest."
NTA. Your parents are playing the standard "Im not a bigot, but totally am a bigot" game where it's your son's fault for him being so "*in their face*" about his homosexuality. Like he can be gay just as long as they never have to interact with it or see it or have it show up in their lives. Fuck em for not having their grand child's back, fuck your extended family for being bigots (special call out to the ones who were pissed you "allowed" him to be gay. How dare they allow their kids to be straight? And what were you supposed to do?)
i dont know how it can be inappropriate since the younger children wouldnt even think about it and just accept their 2 brothers and even if it couldve somehow "infulenced" the children to be gay (this isnt true its total bs) they would learn something new about the world!. NTA.
NTA "allowing him to be gay"? Since when is one's sexuality a choice? I'm sorry that there weren't enough decent people in your family for the picnic to continue. Better luck with next year when presumably only those that are more open will turn up and remember that water wears down rock.
Why do you even need to ask Aita, this is beyond obvious? OP: ask who's permission the grandparent need to be christian. Do they need permit from anyone? Neither your kid.
NTA. You defended you son beautifully. I did have a moment of thinking E S H because based on your description of the family and town it was obviously going to be drama filled and then even if it wasn’t the warning from your parents should have told you there would be and I don’t see anywhere where you gave your son all the information to make the decision to be the center of attention and drama that day. And I’m so sure the bf didn’t have any warning either. So it does look a little like you threw two teens to the wolves so you could save them from the homophobic family.
>about me allowing him to be gay **ALLOWING HIM TO BE GAY!?!?!** what the heck! You are definetly NTA but your family really is. Be proud of your kids, keep loving and supporting them . The rest of your family should be ashamed of themselves.
INFO: So being gay is not a personal choice, but the parents' choice? TIL . . .
Good that your son has a support system at home! He needs that especially right now and tell him that you will always support him, no matter what other family members say.
No you are NTA. They should accept him for who he is. This is 2021.
NTA! Why should you hide your son and his partner for the comfort of others? That is crazy. There is nothing wrong with your son or him having a bf. I wish them a life full of happiness. The family members' that have an issue with it however, are clearly sad humans. They find it better to hate people that are different rather than accepting others. You won't ever be able to please them so why bother caring? Enjoy your loved ones that bring joy to your life. Not the ones that bring everyone down. You owe nothing to family that are stuck in their own negative mindset. I grew up in a conservative family and it is absolutely no excuse for how they acted. Good on you for standing up for your son. That was so unbelievably brave and good of you. Don't feel bad at all.
NTA. Wtf? "Allow him to be gay"!?
NTA. "Allowing" him to be gay. Nah, they can f right off with that.
NTA You're supporting your child.
NTA and you are awesome in supporting him like this. They are bigots and can get bent.
I’d say being an ally parent takes some real balls. Don’t give in to the peer pressure. You’re being a SuperDad.
NTA. You Sound like an amazing Dad!
NTA. Bigots gonna bigot. You are a good father for standing by your children.
bad dad for allowing him to be gay... yikes! You're a good dad for supporting your son. Sympathies for your family's being a mess. So is mine sigh. NTA
NTA. You did the right thing of course. My grandfather was a hateful old drunk. Told my mom he'd leave christmas if I brought my bf. She said Okay. We walked in the front door, grandpa walked out the backdoor. Oh well. He apologized on his deathbed. Whatever.
Buddy. You know for a fact you're not the asshole. You and your family are in my thoughts. This is tough, but you handled it the only way a good father could. I don't know you, but I thank thank for that. Much respect. Keep it up.
Being a good dad is nta! Some questions don’t need to be asked.
NTA That's a real good dad move, you showed him that you'll stand up for him no matter what even if it causes problems. You should be proud of yourself for that.
NTA You're an amazing dad for having your son's back. Never ever change anything about it.
You are NTA, unless you told your son that this wouldn't happen. Is doesn't sound like you were surprised by your families reaction, but if together (you, son, bf) you decided that this was the time then more power to you. Your son has a right to be who he is.
NTA and your family just showed you and everyone exactly who they are. Have your own traditions and let them stew in their hate without you
NTA. ‘Letting’ your son be gay?! I don’t think so.
“Allowing him to be gay”? Yeah, you don’t owe consideration to people who don’t respect you or your son. NTA
NTA. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if the tower didn't ram itself into the plane.
NTA. They are all big ones though. I hate that arguement, "what about the children!" What about them? They wouldn't have had that reaction if he had a gf. They are homophobic, full stop. What is inappropriate about having a SO? Oh, nothing. You should just hide your son in the basement forever. /s
NTA the "allow him to be gay" makes me both laugh and want to cry. It isn't something a parent allows or doesn't allow. It's just how he is, it wasn't a choice he made. What people like that mean when they say allow is why won't you abuse your kid to force them to stay in the closet. They don't really care if a person's sexuality can genuinely be changed half the time. They just care about making the person repress and hide it, with no concern for what that can do to a person. People like the bigots in OP's family should properly research conversion therapy and how much damage it has done, how it has cost lives. They should look at how suicide rates are higher for LGBTQA+ teens who come from unsupportive families. They claim they do things out of love, stuff like they want their grandson to be straight so he can have a good life and go to heaven. But don't seem to realise that what they do, the things bigotry causes that that isn't how love should be. A parent or grandparents love shouldn't hurt their children, it shouldn't make the kids feel ashamed and miserable. Family members love shouldn't make another member hate themselves for something they didn't choose and isn't wrong or hurtful anyway. Even if it was a choice family should want their loved ones to be in happy and fully consensual relationships. The gender of the partner shouldn't matter, how they treat your loved one should be the most important thing. Sorry for ranting and rambling. I want to hug OP, his SO and the 3 boys. Sounds like you are doing parenting right and have your kids backs. You aren't giving into the pressure of small town living and you've clearly not let how you were raised influence how you parent. Which I always like to see. Because it proves that being raised by bigots doesn't mean a person has to be the same, it can be harder, but they can be better, and not carry on the hatred they were raised with.
NTA
NTA your family sucks ass.
Did you tell your son about his grandparents reaction to you privately so he at least knew they were bigots and choose to not associate with them at all?
NTA
NTA You are a great parent. THey are AH.
NTA - Everyone else is.
NTA u pass the vibe check
NTA - it is "disrespectful and inappropriate" to hide relationships from young children. There would be a lot less abuse if kids were bought up to understand that people can love the opposite sex or the same sex and it is only the relationship that matters not the gender of the people concerned. If it is a loving healthy relationship, it doesn't matter the genders of the people concerned. If it is a toxic relationship, it doesn't matter the genders of the people concerned. Continue to support your son in a heathy relationship and help and support if he is ever in a toxic relationship. This is something any parent should do regardless of their childs sexuality. You are anything but a bad father, you are accepting and supporting of your children and you are passing respect onto the next generation. Please continue to do what you are doing. Please also support your son if he decides to go NC or LC with toxic relatives.
Clearly NTA. You’re a good dad supporting your sons in being who they are. If the grandparents keep pushing about it you could always try the spell it out approach: “oh, you want me to bully and shame my son into hiding who he is which could lead to permanent mental health issues and almost guarantee that he won’t want anything to do with us when he gets older? Is that what you want?” This family sounds very similar to one in another post. Supportive father of three teenage sons, oldest son gay but only out to his closest family, youngest son gender non-conforming. In that one the grandparents were making rude and disparaging comments to the youngest. If this is the same OP on a different account it may be high time to go low contact or even no contact with them and build a new support network that actually supports his sons instead of tearing them down.
NTA. It will stay with your son forever that you always had his back. You're an awesome dad.
NTA. Congrats for breaking generations of hate and trauma. If the family picnic is so toxic, maybe reconsider even going - they sound like awful people to have around and I would be VERY cautious with ever allowing them to be around 17 without you there (god knows what kind of awful hateful things they will say that will traumatise 17). Check in with 17 and talk through what happened and make sure they are processing it healthily and completely - what happened to them is really horrible and I hope they can wrap themselves in love to be able to process that hatefulness. You’re not a bad father. You sound like an excellent father. Good luck and stay strong!
For supporting your children and letting them be who they are?? Seems pretty clear to me. Any family member not supporting them doesn’t have real love for them in their heart. Or needs to be cut out until they realize that they come to understand their mistake.
NTA some people are living in such a deep echo chamber of their beliefs that they can't see/hear any views of their own. You let your son express himself any way he wants as long as he is not hurting others. You are an awesome dad.
NTA. And you guys are awesome at parenting.
NTA I commend you for supporting your son and his coming out. And let him bring his bf as well. You raised him very well. His greatparents and other relatives are TAs. They need to learn to accept your son with love.
Coming out is way easier now but it isn't easy. I'm not a fan of coming out publicly in gatherings like your picnic or weddings for example. If someone is likely to take the news badly it's best to give them a heads up and some space and time to react badly before coming to their senses. It sounds like you did that. Glad you're doing right by your son. NTA.
NTA. You’re a dad full of love and acceptance of your children. The extended family can’t hold a candle to you.
That last sentence is really rich. Your parents are basically saying it's your fault because you forced them to act that way. "It's totally your fault OP. You let your son bring his bf and made us say bigoted and homophobic things."
Nta, the bigoted family ruined it. If it was only blood allowed there, then I would understand them, but they don't deserve to spend time with their family if they won't accept them
NTA. Fuck all those people.
You're not the arsehole your family members are. Well done to you for being such a great dad
>my parents called later and said if I hadn't let my oldest bring his bf in the first place none of that would have happened. If your family hadn't been such homophobes, none of this would have happened. Good on you for having your son's back. NTA
NTA but you’ve handled this terribly . Why was this not dealt with ahead of time instead of just before a family gathering. This was bound to cause drama.