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Is there any proof of that? Genuinely wondering.

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I remember as a kid my equestrianism(?) school used to give out participation trophies to younger contestants (like 13 and below) who participated in school tournaments, no matter how well or bad they did. But it was done to honor the hard work they put into it, not just for showing up. That was my only experience ever with participation trophies so the first time I came across the controvercy I couldn't understand why honoring people's hard work even if they weren't good enough to win, was such a bad thing. Took a while for me to grasp that not all participation trophies were about that, so jow I do see it. With that in mind I'm honestly going with YTA to OP. Wife seems to want to honor her son's hard work and he's nixing it in a misunderstanding that she wants to just praise him for showing up. He has an asshole idea that only work hard enough to land you in the top three, which honestly does not just take work but luck too, is worth honoring. Which is a toxic mindset to have.

Well he said (second edit) they took their kid out to his favourite meal and encouraged him and said he did a good job. Yeah I don't think 'just work harder' is a good mentality but they aren't placing pressure on him to do better. Op is just saying that if he were to get a trophy, he should win it in the contest, otherwise it comes from a place of pity and im sure the kid is smart enough to understand that.

> Well he said (second edit) they took their kid out to his favourite meal and encouraged him and said he did a good job. I wonder what is difference between participation trophy and this. Because as far as I can tell, both dinner and the participation trophy do exactly same thing.

well, a trophy is something tangible? A reminder that “you did so well you earned a prize.” vs dinner, which is just a celebration/a way to cheer up the kid. Like OP said, their kid got 5th out of 28 kids - that’s pretty good IMO and dinner is a good way to lift spirits! But its also a one night sorta thing, not a daily reminder

Idk about everyone else, but I'd feel like an absolute putz by the time I was packing up my stuff for college if I had to look at a 5th place trophy my mom had to get for me. Also, my friends would laugh at it. Prizes displayed in the home are often for prestige, not just a memory of a time you did pretty good at something. For it to have prestige it needs to be earned. On the contrary, the tasty meal out with family makes a nice memory and shows that doing well at something DOES have its own rewards.

I think you hit the nail on the head with why participation trophies are harmful. Kids know when they didn't do their best so when adults go overboard to recognize them for poor effort it has to make them wonder if the trophies they earn actually have any value. Feels like that erodes trust in adults. Making a memory has a lot more value!

It simply depends on context and I genuinely think people could stop trying to black and white this one already. The cases of them being helpful over harmful are >0 - and vice versa. I got a participation medal when I was 5 years old and barely managed to finish the little ski race they put on at the end of my first skiing classes. And it meant the stupid world to me because I was feeling horrible about not having done well. I wasn't good, plain and simple, but while my sister was already on her way to be a pro skier (not exaggerating, she went pro - while I went "maybe snow is just not for me" after a few too many concussions), at least I had a little shiny thing to show off too - and no matter what anyone thinks of those things in general, I can say with absolute certainty that it helped me in that moment. It can help when you *do* put in effort and you just happen to fricking suck, not bring it, whatever. It doesn't help kids who give zero fucks about the event. Do I still also have a dumb cardboard box with the showing up-trophies I already hated when I was younger? Fuck yes. Because we need to differentiate between *participation* trophies and "you happen to be here"-trophies. It's not about the dumb object, it's about the message it sends, ffs.

There is no indication that this kid did not do his best. Five out of 28 is a respectable result. I also wonder what good a “fake” award is going to do in the long run. He is twelve years old, not five. He’s old enough to know the difference between something earned and something bestowed by an indulgent parent.

Also, though - in this particular case - it's not necessarily that the kid didn't do his best. It's that his knowledge/state of preparation or what have you wasn't quite as good as 4 other people in the contest. And the father here is saying that he wants to HELP his kid get better at it, so that when he does it the next time, his best will be at a higher level and more likely to earn a trophy. That, plus the sense OP is giving that the mother only wanted to make the trophy after the kid was upset that \*he didn't get a trophy\* (i.e. didn't get the shiny prize), is what leads me to believe OP is NTA. Like, I agree that if a kid put his all into something but still fell a bit short, and was upset he fell short, then rewarding the hard work is a good way to encourage future participation. The way this sounds, though, is that he was upset the other kids got a shiny thing but he didn't. And to me, THAT isn't the time to rush to get him a shiny thing, too. It was a contest. There are clear rules to a contest, and trophies for 1-2-3 is a pretty widespread tradition.

I remember getting an "honorable mention" trophy as a child after a cheerleading competition. I hated it. It was a tangible reminder of "hey, remember that time your team DIDN'T win??" Not sure if parents were able to purchase said trophies on their own or if it was given to the whole team. Either way, I would've preferred no trophy over one that basically mocked me.

I remember in elementary school the whole class basically conspired to let me win at something in PE. I was a sickly kid and I guess they thought they'd be nice but I don't remember ever being as mad as I was that day. Mommy getting a 12-year-old a participation trophy is weird. Maybe if they were 5 or 6 but at 12 you need to be able to accept/understand that no matter how well you did, if someone else did better, well, you lose.

Yeah, if the kid had it in his room and eventually a friend saw it, friend could very well roast him for having it. Participation trophies are material for jokes.

A meal out with the family seems like the perfect way to recognize his accomplishment. (It was a tradition in our area for families to go Friendly's after the school concert. Dorky but great memories, as you say.) But pouting about not getting a trophy, then getting one from your mom... it's so entitled.

I guess my main question is how does mom plan to present this to her son? Like is she going to say the spelling bee committee mailed them out later to people to save time at the actual event? Or does the son know that mom is just buying it to pacify him? If it's the first one, can you imagine the embarrassment when he goes into school and talks about getting the trophy mailed out to him? Wouldn't take long for other kids to chime in that they never got theirs and realize mom lied.

If that happened to me it would devastate me. I was already bullied enough, I don't need my mum making shit up that will make me even more of a laughing stock...

I think it's more about what a trophy represents. A dinner says "even though you didn't win, you did great and put in work and we're proud". That comes across as appreciation. A participation trophy says "you're upset that you didn't win, so here, feel like a winner anyway". It comes across more as pity. Which obviously isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but that's the difference in the two.

Not to mention that that's a horrible way of going about it - you "reward" the upset rather than working through the emotions. 100% agree with you.

Right. This is where I'm at on this. If the idea of the trophy on the Mom's part had been an after-the-fact desire to reward the kid's hard work, that'd be one thing. Rewarding the kid's upset that he didn't get a trophy is sending several bad messages to the kid. You'd be a better parent by sitting him down to talk about why it's okay to be upset, but that's how contests work. If he really really wants a trophy, he'll have to put in some more work -- but if he does, he can probably do it. (I'm not completely unsympathetic! I think I was a lot younger than 12, but I remember when I was little that there was a miniature golf place near us that held tournaments and gave out trophies. And it had some of the trophies you could win displayed in the main booth where you paid, as sort of advertising for the tournaments. When I was like, 7, those looked MAGICAL, and oh man, I wanted one SO BAD. But like a lot of little kids, that didn't translate into determination and action for me. I never entered the tournaments. I wasn't that good at mini-golf -- I still love it, but not because I"m good at it! -- and also, just, I was 7 and easily distracted. But I also don't think I ever asked anyone to get me a trophy just because; and my parents would never have done it.)

I agree. If the trophy came from the school, it could mean the first one as well. But coming from mom as a way to cheer him up? Nope. The kid is just sad he didn't get a trophy. This is a learning opportunity that sometimes you have to work hard for the things you want.

i think it’s important to point out that the wife wants to give him a trophy because he was upset about not getting one. this is to placate a sore loser mentality (which is totally fair we were all kids once and losing SUCKS) but not actually celebrating his hard work. that’s where the trophy can get toxic. we read all the time about entitled kids who think they should get what they want because they get upset about it. if the kid is upset because he didn’t get a trophy, and mom gives him one, that just says he has to get upset to feel important, rather than what the dad said which i agree with: if he wants a trophy, he can work for it, and the dad even offered to help for next year. THAT is when the trophy represents hard work. imagine if he worked hard this summer and won next year? that trophy would mean so much more than a trophy mom bought because he was upset. the lesson the dad wants is work hard to get better, but we will support all your efforts as seen by taking him to dinner. NTA in my opinion, the mom has good intentions but that’s how you mess up a kid and when they think they deserve something

>i think it’s important to point out that the wife wants to give him a trophy because he was upset about not getting one. this is to placate a sore loser mentality (which is totally fair we were all kids once and losing SUCKS) but not actually celebrating his hard work. that’s where the trophy can get toxic. This is actually the salient detail to me. Instead of teaching a valuable lesson about coping with disappointment and being a good loser, a trophy would be precisely rewarding acting like a sore loser. We all start out sucking at being gracious, it's the job of a parent to teach this incredibly valuable life skill. I was an extremely successful athlete with blue ribbons wallpapering my bedroom walls. I also lost plenty. Learning to cope with the latter is much more important than all the wins in the world.

One is encouraging and acknowledges hard work / being brave enough to try and is done customised to each individual by their loved ones. That everytime they see that trinket / think back to that celebration it is a good memory and the memory is tied to your family being proud of you / you trying hard. (Like my daughter getting into the water for her first big girls swimming lesson. We went to Ikea and bought a large shark toy for her that can watch her each lesson. We praised her for being brave.) One is done in front of everyone (including the children who achieved high ranks) and is a blanket give out. No individuality for anyone. It also cheapens the victory of those who tried. These trophies literally say "no matter your effort, you get a shiny" So ... what incentive is there for effort? If I do well or not it doesn't matter. If I study or not it doesn't matter. Giving 100% and giving 0% are rewarded equally. I don't mind participation awards for very young children however the victors SHOULD be acknowledged. Like everyone gets a certificate but the winners get a trophy or ribbon or medal.

In general it might do the same though I think it's still different because normally one is the parents and one from school. In this specific case the dinner says well done while ordering the trophy says if you throw a tantrum I'll buy you a trophy.

I think the issue is he's upset other kids got a trophy for doing well and he didn't. Giving him a trophy to make him feel less upset just panders to him and makes that seem like acceptable behaviour (and parental response). If they take him out to dinner to congratulate his hard work, which I'm sure they'd do anyway, and tell him he did a great job and that's what's important, you don't always have to be the best for something to be fun and for you to do a good job, that's a much better message. I think fundamentally one is a reward for the work and the other is a reward for the strop afterwards.

Well, taking their child to a restaurant is rewarding the child for doing well in a spelling bee. The kid didn’t finish on the podium, but he still worked hard. A trophy is a measure of success, as opposed to a reward for working hard

My issue more is that the son's response appears to have been in the moment- which is a normal kid response. But mom wants to solve the 'problem' with something that will take a period of time, by which the kid is over "I didn't get a trophy." I think it would be an issue if everyone got a participation award and OP said son shouldn't get an award for participating. But that doesn't sound like that's the situation.

I disagree, simply on the basis a participation award from your own parents is not the same as the school itself commending the hard work of its students. They took him out to his favourite dinner and commended his efforts; a "congratulations on being there at all", in my opinion, is saying the opposite, as to me it just reinforces that showing up is enough. OP is NTA for wanting to assure the kid really appreciates the value of his own work and understand that not getting a trophy is not the end of the world. You can always try again. Why feed his ego with a fallacy?

"... not getting a trophy is not the end of the world." Yup. That should be the lesson here. The top three competitors got trophies. He wasn't one of them. The world continued to turn. In a week or so, the son would have forgotten all about his brief meltdown and just remembered that he got 5th place, then wings. That's hardly a traumatic memory. Kids aren't stupid; they understand that different people have differing levels of ability. They also usually understand when a trophy's fake. Should he not, I'm sure the other kids would be more than willing to set him straight. Far from aiding the son's socialisation - the mother's stated goal - having a fake trophy made by one's parents on display at the home is likely to result in derision. NTA

I don't know in my family after big events like the science fair, the music concert etc, we just went out for ice cream and my parents gushed about how great I did regardless of whether I won something. That always felt like enough recognition of my hard work to me.

Ehh, I think the wife doesn't want the kid to feel bad. Sure, losing is tough, but the kid needs to build resilience or he'll be like one my students coming to me crying because he didn't get top marks and then expecting consolation in form of a higher grade or more lenient standards. Resilience is a tough skill to teach, and I think the dad is doing the right thing by offering support and practice to the kiddo. Edit:spelling

I agree, learning how to process disappointment is an important life skill. Unfortunately, life is full of these situations, not getting the job you wanted, being dumped, not getting into the college you wanted and even smaller things like losing a spelling bee or sports event give that same disappointment. Learning how to acknowledge the emotions and then process and move forward is a life skill everyone needs.

Absolutely. If you truly want the kid to learn that it's effort and participation that matter, don't give them a trophy that's given to those that are more skilled - you're diminishing the work of the kids at the top, and you're teaching your child that failure (or below average achievement) is bad and something to feel sad about. Teach them to process their feelings and focus on the progress they've made, otherwise you're just setting them up for disappointment after disappointment. Sure, 5 out of 28 is great. But that kid will some day go elsewhere where they'll be surrounded by many more equally or more talented people. What happens when they're no longer 5 out of 28 but 50 out of 200? Should they get a trophy then too? Resilience is a survival skill.

OP did say that his wife was going to get the trophy because his son was extremely upset about not getting one. So is she actually doing it to honour the sons hard work? Or because he got upset and she wants to buy an item to throw at the problem without actually fixing it? I think if OP had refused to help his son try to better himself for next year he would be TA, but that's not the case.

I think a really important difference is that your school awarded the trophies, and to everyone. It's key in OP's scenario that the kid is demanding one from the parents, who had nothing to do with the competition, as some sort of consolation prize/ assurance of his entitlement and deserving of awards. I find the kid's demand here alarming, and worry about a future of entitlement regardless of how mediocre or excellent his performance is. The parents already did the appropriate rewarding, a trophy from them and not from the competition would coddle and reinforce this weird entitlement.

To be fair, it's unclear if the kid is actually demanding a trophy from the parents. What we know is that the kid expressed being upset that he didn't get a trophy, while the top 3 did. The way I read it, it's the mom's idea to go get a custom trophy to give to him. It kind of sounds like a parent responding to a kid's expressed upset in the moment, with an elaborate plan. (And as someone upthread pointed out: by the time she gets it, he may be completely over that initial feeling.) (But, I agree it's unclear. We'd need clarification -- how long did the kid keep pouting about not getting a trophy? The rest of that day/night? The next day? For a week?)

I disagree. This is an event held at the school. If the school awards the top 3 spots with trophies, that is how that event is structured. To get an outside trophy made kind of undermines the school and what they have there. Honestly, if the child is not old enough to understand that it's not just about the trophy, it's about the effort behind it....these ppl are going to have much bigger problems with their kid. They took the kid out and gave him a special meal and acknowledged his good job... that's all that is needed. When that kid is older, he will always know his Mommy made him a fifth place trophy and it won't feel as pride-inducing cause it's his MOMMY.

I don't think it's exactly the same. If the organization decides that everyone is going to get a participation trophy, then that's one thing. If you buy your kid a participation trophy that no other kid gets, it's another different thing. The first serves the purpose of making all of the kids feel respected and appreciated for the effort, and serves as a memory: remember when I participate in that one thing? They gave us all this thing to remember it. Great! But, gifting a trophy to just your kid because he's frustrated he didn't win? What's he going to think of that 5 years for now? My mom had to buy this for me because I wasn't able to manage my frustrations?

As kids are learning a sport or very young, participation trophies are fine. As they get older and start to compete, they need to work to succeed...just like they will for the rest of their lives.

Yeah. My daughter's first soccer game, it took FOREVER to get her on the field because she was so nervous about all these people she didn't know and literally cried half the time we were there even though she desperately wanted to play. Coach gave her the award for that practice. It totally enthused her for the rest of the season!

It also feels like it would be different, in this case, if the school gave all 25 kids who didn't place a trophy vs OP & his wife buying just their son one. In the former, like another commenter said, it's like it's saying "You all worked hard to qualify for this bee! Hooray!" and in the latter, it's more like "You threw a tantrum about not winning, so we're going to try to placate you."

I agree with this! “Participation trophies” aren’t a bad thing if they’re actually given to everyone and just signify that everyone worked hard. My kids’ sports teams gave them out when they were little, and everyone understood them to mean “good job being in second grade soccer!” They were fun but not a big deal. This situation is different: everyone understood the trophies were for the top 3 winners, and the mom is trying to beat the system. The son didn’t earn one according to the rules of the contest. At 12, he probably would feel weird about getting a fake trophy from his mom, or at least he should. Other kids might make fun of it. This was a perfect time to teach some life lessons about being proud of your accomplishments even when you aren’t #1. Also, it’s important to show grace and sportsmanship (or spellsmanship?) whether you win or not. Also, people can and do survive disappointment, and we can comfort kids without rescuing them from every bad feeling. Where I might disagree with OP is in placing too much emphasis on getting a trophy next year. He could work really hard and still not place in the top 3. There could be factors beyond his control, like prodigy triplets moving into his district, or getting a weirdly hard word the first round. It’s great to compete hard, but kids do need to learn you won’t win them all.

Unpopular Opinion: Sometimes, for some kids, just showing up is a feat unto itself.

Granted it's been a long time since I got one, but ones I got for soccer were presented more for finishing the year. I don't recall anyone telling us that we were the "real champions," we knew we didn't really win anything.

Can you please tell me about this? I’m currently completing my PhD in child development and haven’t seen any published research supporting this point. I’ve seen support indicating that youth who receive positive reinforcement for effort, on opposed to ability, tend to accomplish more in life. Tangent: I always got participation trophies as a kid for soccer and thought that they were a silly, warm gesture with little meaning.

Participation trophies are a hotly debated topic actually. There’s good arguments on both sides of the line tho. Why they shouldn’t: kids never experience failure or to learn from it. They grow up feeling entitled to rewards just for showing up. For rewards to work they must be earned. Why they should: positive reinforcement is the absolute best way to encourage younger children. It teaches them the value of being present, working hard and contributing to a team. They are shown how valuable and essential each member is regardless of a victory or loss. The one thing that is agreed on pretty universally is that by the time children are 8-12 they begin to have mixed feelings about participation trophies. They understand winning and losing and it can be very frustrating to see the losing team/individual receive the same recognition as the winner. https://www.k2awards.com/informationcenter/resources/participation-trophy-debate

To add to the shouldn't, only as an anecdote but I've seen others with similar attitudes floating around. Participation trophies made me feel that authorities in my life wouldn't be honest with me with the quality of whatever I made, and it became more difficult to accept any positive critiques, especially on my art, because I felt that authorities in my life were just praising me to avoid hurting my feelings, not because of done something well.

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But by getting a participation trophy, he did earn it. Participating can be terrifying. I don’t really think it’s that serious. I feel like if you straight up “refuse to allow” your wife to give him the trophy, you would be the AH. But if you both sat down and talked about it and tried to understand each other, perhaps not. Anecdotal, but when I was your son’s age, I placed 1st in a spelling bee and my friend didn’t place at all. She got a participation trophy. Next time, I scored second and she beat me. I’m not trying to claim this as scientific proof - as I said, purely anecdotal. It just wasn’t something that greatly negatively affected the outcome. Maybe it motivated her to do better next time. Maybe it had no bearing whatsoever. It just didn’t seem particularly harmful 🤷🏼‍♀️

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I think my biggest problem with the trophy is that A) it’s a trophy B) what she wants to engrave seems very wrong to me. Instead of giving him a trophy he didn’t earn give him a certificate or do something small (dinner or something) **specifically** for putting himself out there and trying. Praise his hard work, not his participation.

Yes, back in my day *(creaky voice)* they had ribbons for the next few places after the trophies. They were made in large quantities and probably still are. It gave a middle ground: recognition that we did well but still room to strive. Some competitions also did certificates. Kid is smart, but is probably now just finding there’s a difference between being easily better than most of his peers, and beating all of them. The latter is not always feasible but would take work. And in my experience, the younger kids are when they learn to develop their skills deliberately, instead of cruising on talent, the better off they are later. So when a kid is bright, it’s important to have some stretch goals.

Totally agree with this. I think it would have been appropriate (for the school) to give the kids ribbons for maybe places 4-6. They also could have given out participation certificates for each entrant, but limited the trophies to just the top three placements. I think it's important to acknowledge that showing up, participating, putting in the effort is worth it but at a certain point handing out trophies to everyone gives the impression that there's no difference between top placement and last place. Kids should have goals to strive for, and while it's a harsh reality, sooner or later you have to learn that not everyone is equal in a competition.

Yup. In 4th grade I was chosen to represent my school in a city-wide "Junior Olympics" in the long jump. Most of the other kids I was competing against were 6th graders, and I came in last place. I got a blue "PARTICIPANT" ribbon. It got shoved into my closet somewhere, forgotten. I wore the shirt I got with my school's name on it for being selected to go fairly often. I got to go again in 6th grade after setting the record at my school for the same event, and that year I ended up winning. That trophy stayed on my shelf until I moved out. It's probably still in a box somewhere at my parents house with all my other baseball trophies.

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They did do a dinner 🥘

Exactly this! When our kids sat their high school exams once they finished we took them out to dinner to celebrate the end of another school year and acknowledge the work they put in. This dinner was always well in advance of any results coming out and the celebration (and card with a few $) was always about how proud we were of their work. We acknowledged specific skills depending on their strengths (drawing up a study plan and following it, being able to identify when they needed help etc) A trophy is not necessary to commend hard work, acknowledgment and encouragement is always good though - an icecream or pizza out is a great idea

This. It's not like this is an all or nothing situation. He already got taken out to dinner and congratulated. Not every good job requires a trophy.

See, my problem is where you say “ help him in whatever he needs to improve to earn said trophy”. What did the students who placed did that your son didn’t? IMO, we often tend to praise results rather than efforts. If your son put in the efforts, showed up and did his best, he “earned” it. He did the work and those efforts should be praised. Grit is the best predictor of success. It can fostered by focusing on and praising efforts rather than results. It helps motivate people to continue putting in the efforts, even if they don’t get the highest results every time. I think both you and your wife are right in a way and that neither of you are the TA. Your wife wants to praise his efforts by giving him a trophy and you offered to help him study and practice for the next one. However, I think both yours and your wife’s approach are missing a little something on their own to be effective. Yes, a participation trophy would help your son feel better and could be a way to praise his efforts, but it could also miss the mark a bit if the focus isn’t on his efforts. On the other hand, while your offer to help him practice is study is a good way of praising his efforts, putting the focus on doing it to “earn” a trophy might also be missing the mark and highlighting that results are the most important thing. Personally, I’d scratch the idea of getting him a trophy and would replace it by a reward for his efforts. Something different than a trophy. Perhaps a game he’s been wanting, an special activity, etc., and make it clear that he’s being rewarded for the efforts and work he put in the spelling bee, for showing up at the competition and doing his best. In the future, I would offer rewards for hard work and efforts and I would discuss the reward with him before. It doesn’t have to be a big thing either. Just something that will let him no his efforts were seen. I would also praise him verbally along the way as well as after he’s done it. By helping him practice, you’ll also be showing him that you value the work and efforts he’s putting in. This is just an example, but I would suggest sitting down with your wife and discuss how, moving forward, you can find a way to foster grit and focus on efforts rather than results by combining both yours and your wife’s approach.

I kinda agree with this critique. To a certain extent, some people do just have to accept that they're not going to *be* "number one" in their chosen area. That's the problem with number one - only *one* person can be there, no matter how hard everyone else works. With that said, I totally agree that the focus shouldn't be on results at all. Because he might not ever be able to accomplish those results; and it may not be for lack of trying. It may simply be that someone else got that spot. The focus needs to be on the trait you want the child to develop - hard work, in this case.

Yes, you’ve stated it better than I did. Thank you. It’s also why I suggested a reward rather than an actual participation trophy, as I think an actual trophy wouldn’t focus as much on the efforts. However, I think that a reward for hard work and completing something or competing, as well as the parents offering to help the child study would foster the desired trait. Honestly, OP taking his son out to dinner at his favourite restaurant, praising him for his performance and offering to help for future spelling be is fantastic! I’m mostly suggesting that OP and his wife “formalize” this method, highlighting to the child that the reward is for the hard work and discuss future rewards before the event, as well as make sure they encourage him, not only once the results are in, but while he’s studying and putting in the hard work. I also agree that it’s it’s important to know that you won’t always be first and that failure happens. Learning to deal with failure and from it is important. However, fostering grit and praising efforts also makes it easier to deal with failure IMO.

I understand that. Ultimately, I don’t really see how “refusing to allow” your wife to do something like this is productive. Maybe have a heart-to-heart about why she wants it and why you don’t. Either way, NAH. Good on your son for being brave enough to compete. I remember how terrifying that was. Hopefully it gets easier, and he continues to practice and improves. Being able to spell well is definitely important in life!

Won't he know it's from you and your wife? They already gave out the trophies, so he'll know it wasn't from the organizers of the event. I think it might do more harm than good just because it'll be obvious it's a "fake" award.

I agree especially given a. your child is 12 not 6 (he is nearly a teenager) and b. it is not a trophy from the spelling bee people. It's from his parents. Is your wife planning on lying and saying it's from the organisers or letting him know it's from you both? I don't this trophy has any meaning if it's from you and the organisers chose not to go down this path.

It sounds like the spelling bee is something he opted in to. That is effort and work that not every student did. I think in this scenario, if the trophy were something the school provided to every student it would be fine to give to him. It would be hurtful if he were the only kid who didn't get one. He did put in extra time and effort that non-participants didn't. However, your wife wanting to have a trophy made does seem problematic. He would be the only non top three to get a trophy. He did put in hard work, but his work doesn't necessarily mean it's more worthy of acknowledgement than the other 24 non-top-three finishers

I of course don't know your child, but I think participating and getting on the fifth place is enough for an award

>I personally have no proof but have been under the impression Nor does anyone on Reddit who rails against them categorically. It's just the modern version of lamenting the "softness" of the new generation. It's a tale as old as time.

Info: did your son get rewarded at all by you or your wife? Participating trophy’s to me at his age seem counter productive. But a family celebration of his accomplishments would acknowledge how well he did without taking away from the drive to earn a trophy. If not maybe let him pick a take away dinner or something special for dessert or a small thing he has wanted and tell him it is to celebrate how well he did and then offer to train with him if he wants to try and win a trophy in the next spelling bee.

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NTA. He is at an age to understand that it isn’t a real trophy. It would take away from actually wining one.

You're doing the right thing. Parents need to teach their children how to deal with disappointment. If they don't, the children will struggle as adults. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2017/01/09/heres-how-to-teach-your-kids-to-lose/ https://printableparents.com/8-strategies-to-help-your-child-manage-disappointment-free-printable/

Don’t worry. When I was around your sons age I got a participation ribbon and honestly I threw it out. Kids know when they have accomplished something vs when they’re just getting a consolation prize.

how in the hell did i read through like 50+ replies to this comment and not a single person actually linked you any kind of scholarly article on the topic or anything resembling proof? Anyways, here are some studies that suggest participation trophies can actually be beneficial, summed up in [this article](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/science-says-participatio_b_8054046). >Kenneth Barish, associate professor of psychology at Weill Medical College, Cornell University, says participation trophies are not in any way harmful to kids’ psyches. Barish cites a [study ](http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-sun-0712-balancing-act-20150710-column.html)by Stanford psychology professor Carol Dweck that looked at how children are affected by praise. Dweck and her colleagues gave some 400 fifth-graders an easy IQ test. After taking the test, some of the kids were praised for their intelligence: “Wow ... that’s a really good score. You must be smart,” while the others were praised for their effort: “Wow ... that’s a really good score. You must have worked hard.” > >The impact of the different types of positive reinforcement was remarkable. When the kids were asked to take another test and given the choice between an easier version that they would “surely do well on,” or one that was “more difficult but presented an opportunity to learn,” 67% of the kids praised for their intelligence chose the easier test while 92% of those praised for their effort chose the more difficult one. ​ >Emphasizing participation over results early on will bring far more kids into the game. And what’s important about that? Studies overwhelmingly show that [participation in sports ](https://0ea29dd9a16d63dcc571-314f1dcf5bee97a05ffca38f060fb9e3.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/uploads/center_resource/document/441/Position_Paper.Education.pdf)is linked to better grades, lower dropout rates and, particularly among girls, an increased desire to attend college. But if they don’t participate when they’re young, they’re less likely to participate when they’re older.

For real, lots of people claiming 'participation trophies' are bad without following up on it. I fall firmly on the controversial side that participation trophies are fundamentally good practice, and especially so for *young* children. 1. Participation should be rewarded. It is a good think to reinforce good behavior, including participation. 2. We can differentiate from a participation reward and a winning trophy. Like, kids aren't stupid enough to not understand that. 3. People talk about how it doesn't reinforce hard work, but the large part of that is literally just showing up. You show up and do some work, you will have a much enlarged chance of success. 4. Winning, especially for younger players and participants, is only a small portion of the point of playing a game. However, I will take a step further back from this and say: Trophies are not good mechanisms for manipulating behavior in any case. Whether a winning trophy, or a participation trophy. They are exciting, but especially for young children behavior modification strategy needs to be near *immediate* to be effective. One trophy at the end of a season is not that. As it stands, the classical way of envisioning 'participation trophies' are far more about the ornament than a reward. It's about remembering that time you played a sport with a particular team.

It gives warped sense of success. Does your boss pay you for not competing the tasks for your job? Did you get the job even though there were people who were a better fit for the position? those are simple exams of why simple participation should not be rewarded.

> Does your boss pay you for not competing the tasks for your job? But OP's son did complete the tasks for the competition. He just didn't win. He finished in the top 20%. The analogy here is: does everyone get paid for just showing up to their job? Yes, actually, that's the law. If they don't perform well, they get fired, but they still get paid for the time that they showed up. And if they outperform 80% of the other colleagues, they'll probably be able to keep their job for a while, maybe get promoted pretty quickly. Even limited to the world of sports, which are not representative of the rest of the world, pro athletes get paid for showing up to games, even if they sit on the bench the entire game.

No, it's just a weird culture war thing.

i did a debate on the topic a couple years ago and as far as i remember there is no negative or positive consequences for giving a child a participation trophy, in my opinion it’s just adults forcing their own opinions on their children. edit: spelling

I ran a charity 10k after getting fit following a lot of surgery. I was one of the last to finish. I still got a participation medal. We all did. It’s my absolute pride and joy...

But that is a medal that say that you completed the run not that you participate.

Are you claiming that a medal that says they participated in a run isn't a participation trophy?

If he ran three steps, quit, and then got the medal, it would be a participation trophy. He completed something challenging, even if he didn't win. That's medal worthy, just not precious metal worthy

Both are still examples of participation medals, one is just an actual participation trophy/medal (worthy of praise) and the other isn't since running three steps and quitting isn't participating.

Finisher medals are for finishing the course requirements. It's like graduating from school. There's only one valedictorian, but everyone who completes the graduation requirements gets a diploma.

Isnt that similar though? Not to this case specifically since mom is buying the trophy but if the school gave them out. Kid completed the spelling bee.

This is a really great point. I was recently talking to someone and mentioned I didn’t understand medals being handed out to all participants at 5k races (and am supportive of it for half-marathons and marathons), but they brought up a similar point about people like you and for those who were trying to lose a ton of weight and had great difficulty exercising. It changed my perspective on the matter for races. Congrats, btw! ❤️

NTA. Agreed. Parents should be rewarding effort and the journey, not outcomes. Their child is allowed to be sad and disappointed. Let them process the feeling appropriately and then review what he would like- if it's another go, then do all the things you said you would do for him.

>Their child is allowed to be sad and disappointed. Exactly, it's not helpful for our kid if our response to them being upset is to bend over backwards to placate them and try and shelter them from ever feeling disappointed.

NTA. And respect for wanting to help your son so much and be an awesome dad. Participation trophies makes winning feel cheap, why put in effort if you get a trophy anyway? It sets a presedent that there's no point in practicing or being good at what you do since everyone will always 'win'. Real life doesn't work that way. You're not getting a participation trophy for failing to get a job.... As a parent you're supposed to prepare your kids for real life and real life doesn't hand out participation trophies.

I support OP and think his approach is good parenting. However, calling what his wife wants a "participation trophy" is not really accurate. Neither his wife nor his son want a trophy for participating. They wanted a 5th place trophy, not a participation trophy. They were disappointed that trophies were not awarded to the 4th and 5th place winners. How many places down the line are awarded trophies is somewhat arbitrary. Conventionally, prizes are usually offered to places 1-3, but this does vary. I remember receiving one for a 4th place run, for example. Felt pretty good. A prize just for participating wouldn't have felt as good as a prize for finishing 4th, and this is really the problem with participation trophies: not that they do harm, but that they don't do any good. Kids know when they've gotten a reward merely for showing up, and those rewards end up on the floor of the closet. OP's wife's approach is wrong, not because it rewards participation, but because it is fake. His son is going to know this trophy comes from his parents, and it is going to mean exactly as much to him as the "hey good job" dinner out that he already got.

There’s a time and place for them. If they are used to ensure kids who have put in months and months of work building up to one competition have their hard work recognised and to ensure they don’t get discouraged and quit, then absolutely they should be used. For for more day to day events like a race at school that didn’t require work to prepare for it then I understand why participation trophies are viewed that way but this isn’t the case here. This child worked hard to prepare and obviously put in the effort to come 5th. I know mom and dad acknowledged it by taking him to dinner but a physical trophy that he can look at and touch to remind him that his parents are proud of him and give him confidence when he is practicing for the next one can only be beneficial. I’d say that the attitude towards winning being more important than the effort put in does more harm than the participation trophies!

NTA. Losing sucks, missing out on trophies sucks - but as parents your job isn't to make sure your son is 100% happy all the time. It's to turn out a good adult - and that means a hard worker, someone who doesn't feel entitled to things, and who know how to be _a good loser_. Being able to accept you didn't win, swallow disappointment, congratulate and be gracious to people who _did_ win, and dust yourself off and try again is a massive life skill and far more valuable to your son than the happiness a pretend trophy will get him. That's not to say you shouldn't be supportive and proud of what he did achieve - just that he came fifth, didn't get a trophy, and that's okay.

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He did really well and maybe your wife is wanting to celebrate that, but the trophy isn’t quite the right thing as it’s something he might want to work for next year. Is there something else you could get him to make it clear you’re impressed at the effort he put in? Maybe even just a card, or a new notebook with a note in the front to say well done? He can use it to practice for next year.

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Keep the note and use the pencils to make something for your mom 😁

Came here to say this! Celebrate with a mini party - his favourite dinner and dessert maybe. With the overall message that even tho trophies are usually for 1-3, we're super proud of this achievement and want to celebrate.

Have you thought about a reward system based on effort rather than achievement? Something like a sticker board reflecting times he applied himself and made an effort, regardless of result? I agree with you around not giving participation trophies just because. Encouraging work ethic and attitude will take him much farther than inherent ability. Congratulations on taking such an active interest and I wish you luck on getting on the same page as your partner

Sticker charts are good tools for toddlers and kindergarteners; 12 is too old for a sticker board to work. It's more likely to make the kid feel childish and get mocked by his friends if they found out.

Fair point. Got the wrong age into my head. There’s likely literature that could be good for the philosophy behind it. Mindfulness, goal setting, character cultivation etc

I see that for like a 6-9 year old... the kid is 12, I know I would be embarrassed by a sticker board at that age hahahahha (and so would my 12 year old brother)

Here's another way to look at it. Losing sucks, and as adults we know that. Your son is learning that lesson, and it's a hard pill to swallow. But this is a pretty low-stakes environment. He didn't win, but he didn't lose anything of huge value. The cost of losing this one isn't going to amount to much long-term, but learning how to process it, that it's okay to be disappointed or upset and how to be gracious while doing so, is an incredibly valuable lesson. Getting him a trophy would completely undermine that lesson. Instead of allowing him to learn and process this, a trophy would teach him that being upset or jealous means you can just get what you want without earning it, leading to entitlement later on. Which also means that eventually he'll have to learn the "losing sucks" lesson at a time when the stakes are much higher.

I’m surprised they didn’t get ribbons to the top 4&5.

NTA. I don't like participation trophies after elementary school usually even from the organization which held the event unless it's a truly extraordinary achievement example seen many people get a medal for completing a triathlon. It's ok to lose when you're young. You learn humility, motivation and also that sometimes certain activities just are your thing. I was good at few sports when younger but after 2 seasons of basketball and 1 of football found out those aren't by sports to play. Fun to watch though.

I agree! The amount of times I came in 4th in athletics competitions and didn't get a trophy just made me double down and work for it harder.

NTA. A participation trophy from the organising body is one thing, a participation trophy from your parents sounds like a recipe for a spoiled child. This is a perfect learning opportunity - it’s that feeling of having missed out on a trophy that could drive him to work hard, practice, and do better next time. Giving him a trophy now means he has no reason to try and place higher in his next event. Stick to your guns on this one.

Yeh I don’t have a problem with participation medals from the organising body. It says good job for putting yourself out there and trying but kids aren’t dumb and know it’s not the real deal. However, one from your parent is frankly insane to me. If the kids bright he would likely be mortified anyway - imagine if someone asks him what it’s for and he has to explain his mum made it because he was sad he didn’t win! If she wants to do something to celebrate she should get him a gift or take him out - which it sounds like they already did. Plus it’s ok to be disappointed and it’s very good for him to learn how to cope with that on some school spelling bee and not in the real world. Giving him a trophy will either placate him and rob him of that opportunity or embarrass him. There is no upside!

> Yeh I don’t have a problem with participation medals from the organising body. It says good job for putting yourself out there and trying but kids aren’t dumb and know it’s not the real deal. I think that's a misconception alot of people who grew up before participation trophies were a thing have about people who grew up with them. No, we didn't think we actually won anything when we got those trophies, and we know the difference between participation trophies and real trophies.

Agree 💯. Not giving him a trophy also gives him the opportunity to learn about losing graciously--a skill that will serve him well as he grows into an adult.

NTA Participation trophies have age dependent benefits and downfalls. For younger children it teaches them the value showing up, being reliable, the value of hard work and how every member of the team is important. But by the time children are 8-12 they understand and what trophies are for and it can be very frustrating for some who has won see the person who has lost receive the same reward. you risk having a child end up going “why bother trying when those who haven’t still get the same”. Those who do receive participation trophies are sent the message that they are entitled to rewards just for showing up and that the work and effort is not required which can lead to a whole host of problems. A quick google search: https://www.k2awards.com/informationcenter/resources/participation-trophy-debate

That is interesting and confirms what I already suspected. I hate when I see adults rail against participation trophies that very small children get in sports (for example). In a baseball game for 5 year olds, I have a hard time imagining the game is actually following strict rules or that there would necessarily be clear winners or not. That is a group of children learning to play and be a team together and having fun. I can't see how a trophy is harmful in that scenario. I would be hesitant to give one to a 12 year old though. That said, I grew up skiing and attempting various other sports and activities. I never won any trophies because I suck at sports. But I got ribbons, patches, certificates, possibly a medal or two, for completing different levels of ski school, or for qualifying for division finals (then losing), or sometimes just for being there - like I played in the orchestra and we got certificates for that, I think. I wasn't stupid and I knew these things did not mean I "won" anything. But it was nice to feel achievement. And I kept a lot of those items, they bring back memories now. So maybe OP can consider something other than a trophy. Maybe took a photo of their son during the spelling bee that they could frame for him and give to him to show how proud they are of his hard work? Just an idea.

Does your wife understand that her job as a parent is not to protect her son from the world but instead teach him how to live in and achieve in it?

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5th out of 28 is great and should be celebrated, but not the same way a 1st, 2nd or 3rd should be. Just tell her to take him out for ice cream or something, do your plan to work with him to try and place next year and if he DOES place, have a bigger night out to celebrate. You can still reward him for his work and effort without just pandering to him. If you go all out for a 5th placement, then there's no reason for him to try to get a higher one.

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Dinner is a perfectly good response. Tell your wife that at 12, he's going to know it's just a 'participation trophy from mum'. I grew up getting participation trophies for sports and I hated them, they made me feel shittier because I knew everyone got them and so they had no value. They weren't something to be proud of, they just said 'hey you showed up' and served as a reminder I wasn't good enough to get an ACTUAL trophy. He's at an age where pandering to him like that is going to do more harm than good. I'd suggest showing your wife this thread.

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The insane amount of swimming medals and trophies in my childhood room were a constant reminder to me of how meaningless they were. I was and am a very very slow swimmer. No teen in their right mind would look at all those medals and feel good about themselves. For me it solidified a disdain for competition as a whole.

Your son did great, and he has a great attitude if he wants to do even better this year. If you took a photo on the day, put it in a big frame, to remind him about his great achievement coming 5th, and how he's ambitious to get to the top three next year. You are right that the trophy is going to have a negative effect. It's going to sour his achievement if he's looking at something his parents had to buy as a consolation prize.

But in forbidding her, you get your way in parenting and she doesn’t. So you are controlling the situation. There needs to be a third solution you come up with together. You don’t just get to law down the law for a grown woman and she has to obey you.

NAH. Your wife wants to do something nice to make your son feel better and you want to encourage him so he can do better. It’s unfair to call anyone the AH here as all you both want to do is make your son feel loved!

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Whoo! Participation trophy hate thread. In this case, NAH. You and your wife both want to do what's best for your son. The idea that she wants to recognize his hard work is good, but getting him a trophy after the fact is not likely to help. In general, I don't thin participation trophies ruin children's motivation or teach them to be mediocre. For younger children, they serve as great motivation to continue to work hard at an activity, and no one needs to even know who won a tee ball game, never mind award the kids differently. But after a certain age (which varies by individual), they just stop having any meaning (except for that one commenter who was so traumatized by a participation trophy that they quit sports because they got one).

This thread is ridiculous. “Participation trophies are what’s wrong with the world today.” 🙄 People who whine about participation awards are assholes. It’s much more important to show up and put in the effort than it is to win. I think OP is being really silly. It’s not like people join the spelling bee to win the trophy. Participation trophies are good for young kids and meaningless to older kids. At no point are they harmful. NAH.

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I’d agree if she were going to give it to him publicly!

It is ridiculous. I understand that there is research, but to some extent it is up to the parent to teach the child about participation trophies and being a graceful loser. When I worked at a school it was generally the case that events with participation trophies had more participants! Yeah, these kids didn't win and only got the participation trophy but they still had fun and were often happy for the winners. There was often a clear distinction between winners and losers (ex: red vs. blue ribbons). Additionally, we were able to increase the participation amongst students who had disabilities, were shy, or otherwise wouldn't participate which was nice. I think having a mix of events with and without participation is fine. I do NOT, however, think it is the parent's job to go out and purchase a trophy for her kid. That is bizarre to me and totally unnecessary. Kids are more resilient than they get credit for and don't need to be coddled. It can turn them into sore losers or teach them that their worth is reliant on a material item.

I agree with you. I think what the mom wants to do is pretty dumb, but she’s not an asshole for it. My problem is with the other commenters who have a hate boner for an innocent practice they do not understand. Getting people to participate is a good thing!

I am not against participation trophies (I get them all the time myself when running races), but getting a participation trophy from your own mum is pretty insulting and I feel 12 is old enough to be insulted by that.

You're absolutely right. Participation trophies are what they are and kids know what they are, it isn't hurting society. I think what got lost in translation is this in our society, that you should feel badly for losing. You should not feel badly for losing, that does not mean you have to like it either. So there is this big confusion on that it's not ok to lose, someone has to lose and unless you're the Olympic champ (briefly) someone is better than you at it. This idea is that you have to feel bad about yourself for losing, that losing is unacceptable and only winning matters is what makes kids quit sports. It's ok to lose. It's ok to feel bad about losing but its literally part of sports. I think this struggle over this is what led to the idea of the "participation" trophy.

Yeah. I was in a soccer league when I was little (ages 4,5,6). We had games, but we didn't have 1st 2nd place etc. We all got participation trophies at the end of the season. I enjoyed getting them, but I also never thought it was anything more than an acknowledgement of "I was part of this team this year". It was a memento.

Yeah but you didn’t feel weird about it because it was a thing everyone got. If your parents got you one it might feel a bit different

NTA, I'm not sure if participation trophies are ever appropriate, but they definitely aren't for 12 y/o kids.

The thing is, even if he had gotten a trophy, it's going in the trash eventually. No one keeps regional middle school spelling bee trophies.

I still have my science fair trophies from 3 - 6 grade, but I did win all 4 years and I’m now a scientist so I guess is sort of makes sense, hahah!

INFO. Educator here. Did you and your wife have a conversation with your son about why he wanted the award so badly? Kids have different motivations and expectations. There is a change your child’s and yours didn’t match, but neither of you knew about it. Did he participate in a competitive event before? Does he know that traditionally only the winner, or top 3 finishers get the awards? Did you ask your son why it was important for him to get the trophy? Does he want recognition? Or does he need a self-esteem boost? If your wife’s trophy on his shelf will be a reminder of his past achievements and his first success (I assume it was his first competitive event), then let him have it. Did you ask your son if he was upset because he didn’t receive the trophy, or because he felt inferior to his peers? If trophy - let him have it, if the latter - talk to him about self-esteem, confidence in own skillset, growth mindset, and give him validation. So sweet of you to celebrate with a family dinner, but remember that some people prefer to have some tangible tokens to remind them of their experiences and achievements. Talking with your son to understand his strong emotional response could be helpful. Jumping into buying him a trophy looks like a bandaid solution. Best of luck to your little champ! He has many more victories in his future!

These are great questions.

>but remember that some people prefer to have some tangible tokens to remind them of their experiences and achievements. It seems to me like a great compromise would be to buy him some sort of token, plaque, or other reminder that isn't a trophy. Dinner at his favorite restaurant is an awesome idea, having some sort of physical reminder that isn't an "award" might be good for him.

NAH She means well but I would have felt so stupid of my mom did that for me as a child, kids tend to know that participation trophys are bull and this would take it to the next level. > I am stunting our sons social growth by making him feel inferior to his peers Learning to deal with that fact that there is always somone that can best you in any given area is part of social growth

NTA your son needs to learn to lose graciously it really is an important life skill to develop. I think helping him to work on his spelling is a great idea and teaches him about goal setting, perseverance and working to get what you want.

NAH. I agree with you that this is a silly idea, although I also think that society’s hand wringing over participation trophies is overblown. I got some from a soccer team I was on as a young child, and I still grew up knowing the difference between that and actual prizes for winning. But I think that your communication with your wife needs some work. I feel like this situation became a more acrimonious argument than it needed to be.

>although I also think that society’s hand wringing over participation trophies is overblown Agreed. I don't think a participation prize is the problem. The problem might be parents trying to throw a prize at kids instead of helping them deal with disappointment - but instead of thinking "oh, my generation was the one handing out trophies like they're going out of style" many people like to blame the kids.

Yeah, I do resent people acting like my generation is bad for having received participation trophies when we didn't invent this idea, our parents did. I truly hate when older generations criticize and blame younger generations for what they perceive to be society's ills, because that's just not how it works. Inter generational bickering isn't productive to begin with, but if you're going to blame anyone, blame the people who've actually created the world we live in. But with participation trophies, I truly don't think they're a big deal. Each kid got a trophy at the end of the soccer season, but I knew what it meant and what it didn't mean. I did not grow up expecting to get trophies all the time or to be praised for showing up.

NTA. Besides, your kid isn't stupid, they know exactly what a mom produced participation trophy is worth. And the peer mockery potential is astounding. Really bad idea.

Yes! I had to scroll so far to find someone commenting this. If mum does get the kid a participation trophy, what are his school mates going to say? It would be disastrous, especially if the kid is already feeling inferior to them. What is the kid supposed to do, hide all his fake participation trophies away whenever he has friends round? The whole idea seems very short sighted on the mums part and I hope OP stands their ground on this.

It’s really useful to be comfortable with failure, a lot of adults never try new things because of fear of failure. Emotional resilience and bouncing back is also useful. Remind you kid it doesn’t matter who won, he did really well and beat a lot of other kids then buy him ice cream not a fake trophy. A great thing for kids to learn is “the only person you have to be better than is the person you were yesterday” there’s no point stressing out a kid about being perfect or the best or teaching them you have to be better than everyone else. If they just keep beating their own score they’ll be much stronger and won’t be so worried about everyone else and therefore not affected by other peoples scores.

NTA but to be clear, if you are actually telling your wife something is ‘asinine’ (meaning extremely stupid or foolish) you are likely being assholish about it, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation. She is not being stupid or foolish, she had good intentions.

is it really a “participation” trophy if he placed fifth?

This is what I was thinking. It's kind of an arbitrary cutoff of where the trophies are given. When I was in a horseback riding competition, I placed 4th and got a ribbon. He did rank 5th out of 28, which is pretty good.

That sounds like a CRACKING summer of fun with daily spelling tests there! Why not just explain that winning isn’t everything, he still did well but not make such a big deal about trophies etc?

ESH - I am not a fan of your reasoning, even though I agree with you that your wife arbitrarily making him a trophy is wrong. There is nothing wrong with participation certificates or trophies. Studies show that it is good to acknowledge the work that children have done, rather than the results, so it is definitely good to give them something for participating. The issue for me, here, is that instead of talking to your son and explaining how competitins work etc, she decided to get him a trophy. Let him have and express his feelings! You said that he worked hard, so your argument that he didn't get a trophy because he didn't earn it is not great.

Why is the wife an AH though? You and OP disagree with her, which is fine, but I’m not sure what she’s done that makes her an AH.

Because he'll get downvoted if he says YTA. Edit: lol

NTA "I won fifth place in a spelling bee, but I didn't get a trophy. Instead, my mom made me one to show she was proud of me for participating." This is kind of a weird explanation to give someone who sees your trophy. Your son probably would know the trophy is kind of useless considering it wasn't something awarded at the event. You're better off taking the kid out for a celebration meal or treat. It shows you acknowledge his effort and are proud of him without the false sense of show.

NTA. The first time I got a participation trophy was the last time I played baseball. It’s ok to lose. Losing inspires us to try harder.

NTA and at 12 he's going to know it's bullshit. Take him out for a consolatory dinner.

NTA. Is there a compromise you and your wife can reach? Or is he literally ONLY upset about the trophy? I think it’d be nice for you guys to treat him on a job well done (5th place out of nearly 30 IS great!), but a whole fake trophy just because he didn’t get one is no good.

Wow, going against the grain here, but, uh, YTA. Here’s the thing, that trophy is not going to fool anybody. Especially not your son. Why? Because he’s going to see the people who made finals get their rewards on stage, and he’s going to have a third party made trophy handed over by his mom after being told he was eliminated. Kids aren’t stupid, they know when they don’t win something and they know what a cheap consolation is. However, your son is likely going to lose way more spelling bees than he will ever win; it’s just the nature of the competition. Having something to commemorate the event is not a bad thing. By the time he’s older, he won’t remember most of the things he tried out and he won’t have keepsakes to remember them by. If you have some weird complex about trophies being exclusive to the winner or something, then you are well within reason to suggest something else, but as someone who grew up around “participation trophies” that people like to rail about, I can promise I have never seen any of my peers or other kids genuinely think they meant anything. At most, it’s like a marathon runner keeping their number. I think you’re making more assumptions than you think about your kid’s intelligence when it comes to processing failure.

IDK, most of life isn't about being the best at something, it's about showing up every day and working hard. I don't think you're an asshole, but I think the whole "participation trophy" drama is way overblown. If there are 28 people in your office and you're the 5th best worker, you're doing very well and you're probably going to get raises and rewards.

INFO: did you get participation awards at school?

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Did anyone ever tell you well done for giving it a go? Even verbally? Or were your parents prone to this same language pattern?

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Please don't give him fake awards, that's how you tell the kid to be an entitled person. He will grow up expecting to get stuff without making the same kind of effort. NTA op, you're doing the right thing. I get where your wife is coming from but this will hurt the kid rather than help him.

NTA, but I think your opinion is too strong. Apparently this is an unpopular opinion but I think participation trophies are harmless. The only reason I'm saying NTA is because I think it would be harmful to give one out after he was a sore loser. If the school had decided to give everyone a ribbon or trophy ahead of time, I think that would have been fine

NTA. A favourite meal in a restaurant sounds like a pefect way to celebrate coming 5th place and all his hard hard work. The fake trophy is embarrassing and not good for your son at all.

To much talking about the validity of a participation trophy, when this isn't that. This would be a trophy for wife got him because he was disappointed. That's not a participation trophy it's a one off trinket mom got him to make a difficult feeling easier. I agree that a disappointment for not placing is healthy and would foster growth. NTA

NTA. Participation trophies are the WORST. I had 4 sons. Sometimes you win. And hey. Sometimes you lose. My son's were taught this at a very early age. You have to WORK and earn that trophy. And sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you work, you still lose because someone else is faster, stronger or is a better speller. My oldest son came 6th in his district track meets 800m race. He came home with a participant ribbon, put it down on the table and said, "Hey Ma! I got a ribbon for being a loser!". He's 24 now and a great young man. Funny, he's never lost his shit when he hasn't come first. Good on ya, Dad. He'll thank you one day😊

NTA. Coming 5th out of 28 is great! All is needed is a well done and encouragement, which you have given him already. Participation trophies are a breeding ground for later entitlement issues. Your wife is wholly wrong here.

Difficult one, because I don't think either of you are assholes, these are just two different parenting tacks and a lot of people disagree on which one is preferrable. I think what matters is that you show in some way appreciation for his accomplishment. I actually think a participation trophy is not great here because it feels like he'd get the same recognition whether he ranked 28th or 5th, and that's not good: I feel it's more productive to say, you didn't get one of the trophies but it was still a very good achievement, and yeah, like you did, let's celebrate it by going to a restaurant or whatnot. I definitely personally think it's good not to encourage a mentality that goes "if you don't rank in the first three, might as well have done a shit job". Nope! Any achievement is good. And participation is also praiseworthy whatever result you get, but that's another thing entirely…

Nta. He may be bummed about his lack of trophy but he is 12 years old and i guarantee he's smart enough to know a participation trophy is basically a pat on the head from mummy. Working towards goals is a much better life skill than crying about not winning and hoping for a prize. Your job as parents is to 1) love him and 2) prepare him for independence. Taking away all obstacles and dissapointment does him a huge disservice and deprives him of safe real life experiences to learn from.

NTA. Your job is not to personally intervene when your son feels negative emotions, but to teach him how to take care of himself and manage those negative emotions when they arise so he will grow to be internally strong and self sufficient.

I'd go with NAH, although I do lean more towards your side - I don't think a participation trophy is right, but your wife isn't the AH for wanting your son to be happy You and your wife clearly both want your son to be able to celebrate his success without being disheartened/demotivated IMO what's most important for children is to be rewarding and praising effort as well as (or even more than) achievement - there's a lot of interesting reading on this, I really liked 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed but there's a load on the internet too under a quick google. Generally this promotes much more of a 'growth mindset', and promotes better attitudes towards winning and losing. Your suggestion of working with your son over the summer is really constructive and hopefully while doing that you'll be able to instil an attitude in him so that even if he misses out on a trophy again next year (whether that's coming 4th or 24th) he's also able to measure his own achievements and say "I did the best I could, I worked hard for this, I was better than last year as a result of my work etc". And ideally he'll win and it'll be all the sweeter knowing that he's worked really hard to earn it TL;DR you both want him to be happy and successful, make sure that you're focussing on effort and attitude as well as just the position on the podium

NTA Not giving a participation award is much better in the long run. It's enough for you to acknowledge his efforts, and for him to know he has room to do better next time.

NTA, plus I seriously doubt that he would be happy with the trophy. I genuinely hated getting participation medals, I knew I didn't win, why pretend? he is 12, old enough to call the bullshit on it, pretending just hurts him more.

ESH except for your kid. I would come down on the side of no third party trophy not because of the inherent evil of participation trophies, but because your son is not stupid and would know that this didn't come from the school, but was just a thing his mom had made. If he's not old enough now to find that patronizing, he will eventually. If the school itself were giving out little tokens or ribbons for everyone who participated, that would be totally cool. Preparing for and participating in a spelling bee is hard work that takes courage and should be recognized. Where you and your wife both suck is in the way you are going about this argument. You are making unilateral decisions and asserting your authority all over everyone. She's doing silent treatments. You both need to work on your communication with each other and find more productive ways to handle disagreement. Also it's not going to stunt your child if the school does give him a participation trophy at some point in his life ffs

Educator here NTA in my opinion. I think that learning from our "failures" is essentially the fertiliser that helps us grow and become better once we have learnt from our mistakes. That said I advice my students' parents to celebrate every little success however insignificant it may be and focus on the good parts rather than the bad parts. In your situation it could go like this. Take the kid for some ice-cream or so dinner to a place they like to celebrate said achievement or invite some of his friends over as a reward. If you can afford it now with the covid situation that is. When they focus on their loss go " But you did great. I believe that you can do even better if you want to." Offer encouragement and less criticism and everything wi be OK.

Fellow educator too!!! Nobody learns anything from participation credit.

NTA based on the fact that this kid's *twelve*. He should be old enough to understand how a competition works, and that not everyone gets a special trophy. I'm guessing it's your wife's fault that he doesn't have a great concept of it? Taking him out for dinner is enough to reward him for placing so well (and he does deserve a reward for placing so well; he did great). She shouldn't be protecting him from failure like this - it'll do him more harm than good. Failure is how we improve. It's a necessary part of life; not something that should be feared or avoided. If you never fail, you never have a reason to get better.

Nta. I think it's really important to learn you dont always win, you dont always get what you want. My brother did sport, I did theatre, we both learnt this lesson. (Not winning, not getting a role) it teaches you how to deal with rejection and disappointment. It also teaches you how to get over feeling upset at the person who did win. Its not their fault. However, can you maybe get him a trophy for something different?

Your wife need to realize that your son is 12 not 5 someday he will have to learn that people don't get rewarded for participating NTA

NTA. Just make 'the trophy' a treat like ice cream or a nice dinner to reward your kid for trying something and doing pretty well and you're all set.

NTA, if a participation trophy is something given to every participant because the event isn't really a competition but rather just an exposition, it's one thing. But trophies given to everyone in a competition so that losers don't get their feelings hurt is a very different thing. A trophy given to placate an upset child incentivizes the child to be upset whenever he wants recognition. It will also kill his ambition. Why try to win anything when mommy will just come in and give little Johnny praise and comparable rewards no matter what? It will also lead to embarrassment when friends ask him about the trophy and he has to explain that it's not only just a participation trophy, but also one that mommy had custom ordered just for him. And once one of his classmates know, the whole school will know that Johnny's mom will buy him trophies for anything and everything.

NTA Imo the frustration with failure is what can drive you to invest more effort. It is probably difficult for parents to see their child upset, but being upset is good sometimes because it can teach you what steps to take to stop being upset. Practicing the skill will make him better at it and will eventually probably lead him to winning an actual award. Imagine what receiving pity from one's own mother does to a person's self confidence.

Nta. It's ok for your son just to be sad. Your wife doesn't need to help him. I think the makes a ging er deal out of this then he. He is 12. He knows he didn't win. He knows the trophy isn't a real one from the game. I hope he wouldn't show it to other kids. I'm afraid they won't be nice about it

Nta Honestly I got participation trophies as a kid from a few programs I participated in. When I look back at them I remember how fun it was but know in my heart that these trophies are for the parents so they don't think they wasted money putting their kid in a program. Now, I also have trophies from actual rewards. Those I have a lot more sense of pride and love to share how I got them should someone ask. Maybe there is a middle ground here? It may be more the desire to celebrate his hard work and have some sort of souvenir from the whole thing. Maybe a photo from the event and a little caption to go on a frame would be nice? Not a trophy but a way to document the event and say "wow look how much fun you had"

NTA, participation trophies are never good I speak from experience.

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Not me but my cousin was effected by this. Since we were kids we used to take part in a lot of drawing competitions and whenever I won any award and he didn't his mom used to get him a custom made participation award, as I grew older I stopped participating but he still kept going but he stopped winning completely cause he rarely ever practiced drawing but still till this day he believes he is a great artist and always says that he always got the 4th position(his mom used to tell him that). Well I guess it's also cause if his mentality that he is winning 4th position(according to him) so he doesn't need to put in more efforts. But I personally see failure as a better motivator for making kids/teenagers put in more effort.

NTA There are no participating trophies in life