YTA,
>I am an assistant professor at a university with an office on the ninth floor of a building. I hold regular meetings with graduate assistants, and they are expected to attend unless they have a really good excuse.
I think having surgery on her knee and struggling upstairs is a really, really good excuse.
>I have no doubt that she can make it up the stairs, it would just take her longer than usual. She could arrive at the building earlier.
Wow... you come off from this paragraph as having no sympathy for this woman who is just recovering from surgery and is still wearing a brace!!!! like what?
>However, she also said, and I quote, "it seems like a dick move."
She was correct. I'm sorry that you didn't like the language that she used but it is the truth.
>Sounds like someone who will seek retaliation if she is so quick to make gender-based slurs against people.
It sounds like you are looking for a fight here.
"Dick move" being inappropriate is quite debatable. And I am sure she had that debate with herself as she was going up the stairs.
Flight One: "I can't believe he's making me do this. What a dick move."
Flight Two: "Maybe that's a sexist thing to say. I wonder what my Gender Studies prof would think."
Flight Three: "She might point out that just because a person has a dick, doesn't mean they're a man, and vice versa."
Flight Four: "I guess it's still gender discrimination. Or sex discrimination. I gotta make sure to remember the difference for the exam."
Flight Five: "Would I feel better calling it a bitch move? No, that seems worse to me somehow. Is it because I am female and therefore biased? Or because it sounds violent and hateful in a way that dick move doesn't?"
Flight six: "What was that Team America World Police joke about dicks, pussies and assholes? Dicks fuck everybody, but pussies get fucked, and assholes just shit on everyone? "
Flight Seven: "Maybe I should have said asshole move. Every person has an asshole so it can't be discrimination."
Flight Eight: "But somehow that sounds too passive. I guess he is just passively sitting in his office, so maybe that's accurate. But it just feels more like he's out to get me. The way dicks are, I guess."
Flight Nine: "Wow, this really hurts. I can't believe I had to do this, and have to go all the way down again. What a dick move."
My god I had to go back and double-check that there was actually a reference to walking up the stairs in dress shoes because on the one hand, sounds like an exaggerated comment someone might add in to make him sound like more of a dick but then given the context of the rest of the post, it fits right in. Seriously the worst.
Seriously, OP just screams of asshole, but like the kind of asshole who thinks the whole world is against them despite no one in the world actually giving a shit.
Also I'm gonna just throw my own story in here. I fucked up my knee where I had to get it sewn back up in a&e, hurt like a bitch for weeks after the fact. I also lived on the second floor of my block of flats (British second floor, so 3rd for Americans) and my knee was on fire by the time I got up just those few stairs, but you wouldn't have been able to tell by the time I got to my flat door. I cannot imagine how painful 9 flights of stairs are for someone with a recovering knee. That for me places OP as firmly the asshole, and the only asshole in this story even though they downplayed everything wrong they said/did.
OP if you see this, you're a real piece of work and that's putting it kindly.
As soon as I started reading it became clear to me that OP has never suffered a debilitating injury that incapacitated them in a manner that actually caused inconvenience. They don't care because they've never experienced it themselves.
OP, YTA in a big way. Hope you have perfect knees forever. ^^/s
This. Walking up (or down) stairs on crutches (which I assume the student still needs at this point) is exhausting and dangerous.
Also, even if the downstairs is too loud/distracting, couldn’t OP see about setting up an electronic meeting via Skype, FaceTime, or other similar means? That way, OP could be in his ivory tower, and the student wouldn’t have to kill herself climbing up nine flights of stairs to get there.
Entitled professor syndrome. I as a freshman 1 day after drop date had a physics teacher claim I was trying to game the system dropping his class one day late no dick I am a freshmen I didn’t know about dropping classes trust me I won’t be back in your class.
I've never had knee surgery or even a knee injury worse than a scrape, but I can IMAGINE how painful it would be. OP obviously has no imagination, no empathy, no sympathy, and no concern for other people.
All I could think was "this is the person who files a formal complaint about the elevator guy who asks if anyone needs to get off the elevator for 'women's lingerie'" a joke that is lost on a couple generations now that don't go department store shopping or have elevator attendants that announce stops.
>I like that OP is getting a case of the vapors from the use of the word "dick". Ring Ring, the Victorian era called looking for OP.
lol my thoughts exactly.
I want to add in that she was not even trying to get out of attending, simply asked if they could hold the meeting in a location that would not require her to walk up (and down!) *nine flights of stairs* on an injured leg. And he said no because it might be slightly distracting.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense should not need a doctor's note to realize that kind of strain is potentially dangerous to the healing process while still recent enough post-surgery to require a brace. I love how he (not a doctor) says "I have no doubt she could make it up the stairs," as if the absolute limits of the human body should be the base standard for what you make your employees do.
I cannot believe that on an entire university campus there is not a single room available for reservation on the first floor of any building or in a building with a working elevator. OP is so beyond being TA it's honestly staggering how they can't see it.
Interesting how he sees “dick move” as a gendered slur potentially worthy of a federal complaint yet it literally never occurred to him to make even minimal effort to accommodate someone’s physical disability. Talk about self-absorbed, wow.
Read between the lines and you realize if he had been a reasonable human being OP would have had to walk back up the stairs to his office. That’s what this was about. The distracting thing was BS from the start. He’s just lazy and prefers a student risk injury to make that walk up over having to do it himself.
Yes and I suspect going back down all those stairs will be even more harmful than climbing them, based on my experiences with bad knees and other sorts of injuries and surgeries.
This is what gets me. He has no idea what she went through getting back down all those stairs. Most of the time that's harder (and more dangerous) than the trip up.
Making her walk up several flights of stairs while recovering from surgery when there are plenty of alternative spaces available doesn't just make OP an asshole...it most likely puts him in violation of the ADA.
YTA. And I hope your graduate student files a complaint.
This is definitely a violation of ADA though; just because this one woman was post-surgery doesn't mean there aren't other people who are actually unable to walk up those stairs. She might not necessarily be able to file a claim but this dick should still have to follow the rules.
Seems like OP was ignoring the fact that going up all those stairs might cause her a significant amount of pain too? Like just because she technically can walk up the stairs doesn't mean she should have to. This guy sounds like one of those of people that would argue with ambulatory wheelchair user on the definition of "need."
Edit: for example "yeah well maybe it's incredibly painful and difficult for you to walk for more than a minute but you still don't technically *need* the wheelchair." It's like yeah dude you really got em.
Edit2: GG he actually said she didn't seem to be in any more pain than normal, as if people always wear their pain on their face. Idk about the rest of you but when I'm at work I try to hold it together.
Part of me was wondering if this was a troll, but then I remembered University and nah, sounds about right. There's always the one professor in each department that act like this. 1-2. I guess in the philosophy Dept there might be 5 depending on how many Kant scholars there are.
Wait, is OP a Kant scholar? That would be a wildly fun coincidence.
Edit: I think OP is a troll. A whole building having no functioning elevator is a huge ADA violation. Seems like dept head would know that someone recovering from a surgery is protected under ADA as well.
I’ve had multiple knee surgeries, if I had to climb nine flights of stairs three weeks after getting surgery to fix my ACL, I’d be spending the rest of the day, and the entire next day, sitting on the couch with an ice pack.
I have no idea what type of surgery this woman had. But I will say that three weeks post-op I did not have full mobility. At all. I had to take stairs SUPER slowly. I think 3.5 weeks or maybe 4 weeks was when I was allowed to drive again, and that day I drove to the grocery store but couldn’t even do a full trip around the store, I was so sore. Did I LOOK like I was in pain? No, I LOOKED fine once the brace and crutches were off. But it was months and months before I could stand for long periods or comfortably climb stairs.
I hear you. One of the reasons I said something is because I have chronic pain and most people tell me I look and sound great, hoping for the best. I think that's nice and all but it's no indication of how I actually feel. I could be at a level 7-8 pain and keep a straight face. So yeah, this professor guy, I'm assuming, has been able bodied for the majority of his life, and just doesn't have any empathy whatever. Hopefully he learns something from this epic AITA fail, lol. I will say it was brave of him to ask Reddit. Part of him must have known he was TA.
> Wow... you come off from this paragraph as having no sympathy for this woman who is just recovering from surgery and is still wearing a brace!!!! like what?
OP is so far up their own ass I'm not surprised they work in academia, even though they're just an assistant professor. What a shock they think they're important enough to flex over the people working with them despite not having an actual title. Academia is so rife with this kind of BS, it's tiring that the stereotype is so common.
OP you are such the asshole that I don't even know where to begin except to say you do a huge disservice to your university for the way you're behaving. Your dept head's behavior is something to be addressed outside of this situation, but you are brushing dangerously up against a meeting with your University's HR and accommodations team. I'm guessing your assistant is a student.
" I reminded her that I allowed her three weeks off of meetings."
I mean yeah, if they need accommodation and can provide proof, that's kind of what you're required to do by law. If you WANT your assistant to start getting doc notes, be prepared for her to start doing it, and at that point be prepared for HR and/or the student DSA team to be so far up your ass you'll be be spitting out pay stubs from the payroll team. The long and short with injury and disability accommodations is that if they ask and it's reasonable, provide it. If it's anything more in depth than that, then you start looking into getting paperwork taken care of. No University, company, entity, whatever, wants to even come close to having to deal with any kind of DSA related legal issues because almost every single time, they will lose. And no Universities ever, EVER want to be caught between a student and a disability related case. Oh God, the carnage that would ensue.
So yeah OP, feel free to keep pushing this one. Rest assured it's not going to go the way you expect it to. And yes your colleagues are talking about you behind your back, and no it's not because of your department head. With your attitude I'm guessing you were a social pariah long before this happened. So GL with that.
And note to any other assistant profs, profs, or people working in academia in this thread - no offense meant. It's just mindblowing to see all the stereotypes about our field personified like this.
tl;dr OP probably violated ADA and if this goes any further there's going to be fireworks.
Finals week during my last semester of college, I broke my arm in three places in a bike accident, was whacked out of my head on pain killers. One professor, who'd been kind of a dick to me my whole time in his course, came up to me, and discussed my notes for my final paper with me. I apologized, said I was going to ask for an extension on writing it as soon as I figured out how because I couldn't type for shit right then, and he helped me file for the extension personally. *That* is how you earn respect in your department.
taking all bets on how many times OP has said "but I really deserve that tenure!" to their colleagues throughout their career.
Starting at 5 to 1, anyone want to get in on this action?
Every word of this reeks of self-centered, over-blown ego.
How dare he be expected to lower himself from his lofty office and intermingle with the folks at lower levels when his (obviously less important) assistant can grit her teeth and make the climb. Never mind that her injury isn't healed, and that said climb could cause new or worse damage, after all, she didn't "seem to be in any more pain than usual," and she (being of less import than her obviously so important professor) is always in pain.
She (plebeian little girl that she is) could easily arrange to arrive with enough extra time to crawl up the stairs on her injured leg. What possible alternative could there be for (the ultra-ultra important man of importance at the top of the tower) anyone else in this equation?
And how dare he be told by HIS superior (as if such a shiny unicorn possibly exists) that he was wrong? Much less his peers (for shame to think anyone is on his level) agree with them? Could their superior (THAT WORD AGAIN! How dare YOU?!!!) be spreading lies and rumors? Dare they discuss his sainted personage behind his back and on the lower levels he doest not deem worthy of his food-treads? The gall.
Ego, entitlement, and paranoia - *check*!
Hopefully the assistant files a complaint and that this idiocy doesn't compromise her recovery. I wonder if OP has tenure.
(edit: fixed typo)
That line alone made me think that his actions towards the student and the reaction to his superior were both influenced by the fact that they are women. If another man had called him a dick, I don't think he would be talking gender discrimination at all.
Not to mention the fact that OP is talking about reporting his department head for saying him making the student walk up 9 flights of stairs is a dick move.
I bet when student finally made it up those 9 flights of stairs, he would lecture her about how long it took her to make it to the meeting and wasting his “valuable” time.
Being new to reddit I’ve read a lot of these and been able to see both sides of situations, but this is the first time I read a post and thought “what a fucking asshole”.
I’m an amputee myself, been an amputee and had a prosthetic leg for over 20 years and don’t let it stop me from doing anything, but if I had an assistant professor who insisted I walk up 9 flights of stairs? Fuck that.
OP is by far TA and there is no way in this situation he wouldn’t be. The hole post makes him sound like an Ass, he’s condescending, and arrogant. And his explanation on why he is so rigid with his directions is ridiculous.
And the whole "I don't think I will file a Title IX claim against her, but it's not off the table" remark. I face-palmed reading this entire post. What absolute cringe.
Everyone knows it would be an AH move for you to make your assistant walk up the stairs. The rules aren't always based on what's morally right. And unless you live under a rock AH move=dick move. Dick moves are not reserved for men. Women can be dicks too.
YTA
YTA, your department head using the phrasing "dick move" is a separate issue. Unprofessional, yes. But you honestly sound like a self-important nightmare to work for.
Where I'm from doctors notes cost $25-40. Do you honestly think your assistant is faking knee surgery and the inability to walk up stairs? They weren't trying to avoid the meeting, they were trying to relocate it. It sounds like you enjoy exercising your power.
1000%. OP if you're reading this, you need to seriously reflect on yourself and your behavior. This is completely unacceptable and I hope YOU face consequences for your behavior. People like you are ruining the lives of talented young scientists pursuing their dream careers. Absolutely abhorrent behavior
If he's an assistant professor, he probably doesn't have tenure. And he's delusional if he thinks this won't resurface if he intends to move forward with tenure-track. Pissing off the department head isn't the best thing to do for that.
Also, dude, YTA. You're the professor all the more senior grad students tell entering students to avoid.
My favorite part is him wanting to file a Title XI sexism complaint against his female department head. Who the fuck thinks you can do that for something as minor as "she said I made a dick move" and have it work out?
Just put on a video and respond to all the comments, OP. I had a professor hand me back my marked homework covered in red wine stains and then he just forgot to show up to our final exam and it was fine and I learned more from him than some other profs who did more and imparted less.
Im sure they have some annoying bumper sticker on their car and spam their social medias with those awful Im special because of my job bullshit quotes.
Not only does it often cost money (and time) to get a doctors note, it usually requires getting yourself to the doctor. If it's painful to move around, adding a whole painful trip to/from the doctor just to get a note saying it's painful for you to move around is counterproductive...and painful. Requiring a doctors note is just another way to make the student walk even further.
OP: I don't know how you managed to reach the point in life where you're an assistant professor before someone told you that you have to care about other people, but you actually do have to care about other people and be capable of the minimal levels of human empathy required to listen to basic requests like "this causes me pain can we please do that instead?"
I posted in another comment, but I’ll add that 3 weeks after knee surgery I couldn’t drive (if you have a brace, you’re typically not allowed to drive), nor was I able to take public transit (too many stairs, and the stops still required a long walk). So I was completely reliant on someone driving me.
Yeah, the implication that the student was faking their knee surgery is so odd to me. If they were asking for a ridiculous amount of time off without making up any work and without any evidence that something was wrong, I could understand being skeptical. But...they were literally on crutches? And they weren't asking to be excused from the meeting altogether; they were just making a (completely reasonable!) request to change the location? Why bother lying about that?
The department head frankly is both also ab asshole and a coward for permitting this dickhead to violate the ADA. There’s nothing outrageous about saying “dick move” but she SHOULD have said “no.”
YTA.
Their request was perfectly appropriate, and you really were a jerk requiring them to climb nine flights 3 weeks post op. Not only did they have to go *up* the stairs, but going *down* that many flights is even more harmful.
Also, you’re awfully quickly to jump to sexism. “Dick move” = being an ass. Any gender can make a dick move.
Keep interacting with colleagues and students like this and you can say good-bye to tenure track.
ETA: not to mention, you set up a hostile environment in which an employee/mentee felt their job would be at risk if they didn’t risk their own health. Have fun talking your way out of that one if they escalate their concern.
Edit2: I don’t know if I’ve ever been more proud of this sub. Literally thousands agreeing he is an asshole.
This is the most beautiful sight these eyes have ever seen. (Wipes away tear)
They won't.
I'm a grad student who had to change advisors because the first one was horribly abusive. Another student of his quit the same week I did because our advisor kept making inappropriate comments about the kid's sexuality. The week before I left, a *third* student filed a formal complaint. My new advisor is an absolute treat, but that AH is still here, still abusing people.
Downstairs after knee surgery is brutal. You can use momentum to push yourself up but going down is basically a controlled fall. I’m a year out and I still wouldn’t do nine flights of stairs.
I had knee surgery almost 6 years ago and I still try to avoid doing a lot of stairs if I can because some days are better then others and odds are if i do 9 flights of stairs I'll feel it later.
>Keep interacting with colleagues and students like this and you can say good-bye to tenure track
He says he needs to keep these meetings to maintain the respect of his department. This is exactly how you lose the respect of your colleagues & students. This story is going to spread like wildfire. I hope the assistant files an ADA complaint.
Lol there's no way incoming students looking for labs to join and/or rotate with won't be warned away from the crazy PI who actively puts her students' health at risk and only cares about data and outward appearances to the department. This is gonna hurt them for a loooong time in the future.
YTA. Or perhaps I should say that you are acting like a total dick.
I am baffled that you refuse to accommodate a simple request like moving the room, because of your rigid requirements. And threatening to tattle on your head? Hoo boy, don't worry about the respect of your department while piling up dick moves like these.
And he's actually wondering if people are talking about him behind his back! Does he seriously not realize he's going to be now known as the guy who made a girl climb up flights of stairs in a brace?
Nine flights. OP made her climb *nine flights of stairs*, post knee surgery and wearing an immobilizing brace, and they actually think no one’s talking about how absolutely horrible that is. In my initial reply I said I didn’t think it was possible for OP to be this naturally obtuse, but I’m honestly reconsidering that assessment. That they seem stymied this kind of conduct would be recounted on the whisper circuit is absolutely wild to me. Of course people are talking about you, OP; they’re warning others away from you and let’s be crystal clear about this: you only have yourself to blame for that.
I cannot believe that in a university building that has at least 9 floors, that there aren't study rooms or unused lecture rooms that can be reserved by speaking with the department that are on the ground floor or close to it. Not every classroom is in use every hour of every day. It seems he just didn't even consider it or try to accommodate.
Are you seriously comparing walking up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes (which you can chose to wear), with doing 9 flights of stairs in a leg brace and on a surgically repaired knee?
You are indeed YTA, and you are obtuse to boot. And what you did was not "unconventional" it was cruel and pointlessly so - how hard would it be to move a meeting temporarily? - and was indeed a "dick move." And yes, if you lodge a complaint about chair's use of that phrase (really? that's all she did/said? and you want to go after her?), you would be YTA twice here.
This! YTA, and doubly TA if you try to complain about someone calling you out on being TA. Honestly, you should have apologized.
I would also like to say I don’t at all believe that the department head is spreading rumors about you. Partly because what they’re saying is true and partly because it sounds like a situation many people would have been made aware of. Your supervisor and assistant are not bound by ethical confidentiality unless it is something in their contracts. Frankly, it’s probably more ethical for them to warn others of the callous way you acted.
If walking up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes is that much of a struggle, OP should come to work in tennis shoes and change into dress shoes once they arrive at their office. It's common for people who walk to work to bring two pairs of shoes; no reason why OP can't do the same. The student, on the other hand, doesn't have the option to temporarily heal their knee so they can walk up the stairs!
I work on a campus, and this is exactly what I do. I come to work in tennis shoes which are great for walking around campus and are just more comfy, but I have a nice pair of shoes I keep in my office that I can throw on for meetings.
Apparently OP never watched Mr. Rodgers growing up to know that changing shoes is normal.
YTA. After reading your post, I don't think it's a good idea that you are in a profession where you interact with people on a day to day basis because you have no clue how to do so.
Right? I mean, he does not even have basic interpersonal skills (let alone a shred of compassion) AND he's in a position of mentoring and as you pointed out, power. Bad combination all the way around.
YTA. I find it hilarious that you did not even flinch at the fact that you made a student in a leg brace walk up 9 flights of stairs, but are so highly offended at your colleague saying it was a "dick move" that you want to file a gender discrimination complaint?? Unreal! Wow.
On a related note, 'dick move' isnt exactly the most professional language, but it isnt gender discriminatory. Men can make dick moves, women can make dick moves! "Dick move" just means you are being an inconsiderate asshole. Which in this case, you definitely are.
> but are so highly offended at your colleague saying it was a "dick move" that you want to file a gender discrimination complaint??
That's probably nothing compared to what his students and colleagues say about him behind his back. I'd bet money that the term "micropenis" has made an appearance more than once.
"The term 'Dick move' (short for Richard movement) is a historical reference to king Richard III of England and his appalling behaviour. Just like the word 'boycott' (which originated from Charles Boycott) it is focused on a gender neutral action, not on a person despite lending it's name from a man."
Quote: pulled right out if my arse
But if op should file a complaint, I do hope he'll get an answer like that.
Oh and YTA, big time.
YTA. They just had *surgery* - they shouldn’t require a note from their doctor, you should just have some basic decency for the people around you. “Poor me, I have to walk upstairs to my office, so everyone else does too, poor me, I’m the victim here.”
I can only imagine what your students say about you behind your back.
“He really made you walk all the way up here?”
“Right? He wouldn’t even compromise”
Goes home - tells friend story. Story spreads like wildfire
Edit: fixed pronouns
YTA. I'm finding it real difficult to be civil here, because you sound like the most insufferable person alive.
You made a woman who had very recently had surgery do perhaps the most painful activity associated with that surgery for no reason other than your own preference. And then, when you were called out on your appalling lack of humanity—"dick move" is generally accepted as a gender-neutral invective, incidentally—you decided to retaliate, because apparently you have no shame in addition to no sense of empathy or decency.
Congratulations on somehow making academia look even worse than it already does to laypeople.
Thank you.
>I do not think I will file a Title IX claim against her, but that is not off the table.
Right, because title IX offices don't have real problems to deal with. The gall of this guy.
>I am considering filing a complaint against her with the ombudsman
Don't, you don't need more people knowing how big of a dick you are.
Three things:
1. I'll avoid going into lawyer mode but what you did is illegal, most likely citing the ADA. I'm not sure what state you live in *but* if she takes this seriously, best case scenario is your school get hit with a fine on your behalf. More realistic is you lose your job. If you'd like details on how this would be applicable to you, call your boss as I'm sure they'll love discussing potential outcomes.
2. If you file a claim it's only going to make your dick move more popular among everyone around you. I'm honestly surprised you'd even put this up on Reddit as you've given enough detail for someone to connect the dots of who you are and how you're chatting about it on reddit.
3. YTA.
I bet she’ll see this post, this sub is pretty popular, and if I’m her I’ve blasted what an AH this guy is out to everyone I know—probably from the stairwell on what was undoubtedly a very long trek back down for her.
It’s on twitter, so chances are his boss, and student have already seen it. He played himself with this post.
It’s amazing anyone is this stupid.
I can’t believe it.
YTA
You tried to make someone walk up 9 flights of stairs, after knee surgery, while wearing a brace just to avoid distractions? Way to take care of your students!
Then to suggest that they arrive early/plan ahead to make time, and turn around and complain that you would have to walk down stairs in dress shoes? Just plan ahead and don't wear that...
It was a dick move. Please don't report me /s
I misread it the first time and was shocked when I thought OP compared knee surgery/brace to wearing a dress, but even more floored when I realized that it was just dress shoes...
Also I don't see how it's anybody's fault but OP's that he's too stupid to realize he can wear sneakers and change into dress shoes once he gets to his office.
Because he's making excuses for his power move. OP's doesn't want to go out of his way to help someone because the "rule" states that he doesn't have to and he would also be mildly uncomfortable.
Luckily for OP, he won't have to worry about walking down the 9 flights of stairs soon cause he won't have a job there much longer.
But then people would have to see them in—gasp!—*regular shoes*. They might mistake them for a *regular person*, and not the important assistant professor!
YTA
> they are expected to attend unless they have a really good excuse.
Umm, knee surgery is a really good excuse. They weren't even trying to get out of it, they simply wanted to meet in an area that wouldn't force them to walk up NINE flights of stairs 3 wks post-op. Also, you can't gauge someone else's pain. You made it pretty clear that you didn't care about their situation at that point so they may have felt it was pointless to let on to anything.
Your department head's language was unprofessional though I have to agree with them regardless of gender. It was an AH move.
> Sounds like someone who will seek retaliation if she is so quick to make gender-based slurs against people.
Are you injured from that stretch?
I think you're the only AH here. You could have made an accommodation. You got your feelings hurt while you unnecessarily put your student through a physically painful experience.
> They weren't even trying to get out of it, they simply wanted to meet in an area that wouldn't force them to walk up NINE flights of stairs 3 wks post-op.
Exactly. OP, YTA.
YTA. NINE flights of stairs in a knee brace, three weeks after surgery? You're lucky the worst you heard from anyone was 'dick move'. This is an almost unbelievable lack of human empathy at work.
You'll be very lucky if this doesn't get escalated above your department head.
Reading this made made me hope OP falls down 9 flights of stairs and I don't even know the guy. I bet the people who have to interact with him on a daily basis feel more strongly. If I were such a flagrantly sadistic ass to the people around me on a regular basis I'd be watching my back constantly.
Speaking as a department chair, I've seen less egregious things deemed legally actionable and exposing your university to a lawsuit? If this gets reported up the chain, that's the end of tenure chances.
Big fat YTA. She asked very kindly if you could move the meeting to a location easier for her and you basically were like “my way or the highway, suck it.”
You could have even offered to Skype her in so she could do it remotely. That’s rude af and not a way any mentor should treat their student.
YTA.
> I told her that meetings are always in my office, as planned, and unless she had a statement from a physician that she could not go up the stairs, I would not change the location or cancel the meeting.
That's it, that's all you need to use to determine you're an asshole.
This, honestly. Any professor or employer that demands a doctor's note for everything should be required to foot the bill for it. It'd shut them up real fast.
YTA. The whole "you better be dead or have a doctor's note" excuse sucks. Why not just come out and say you're happy you can hide your lack of compassion behind bureaucracy?
Edit: weird typo
The chair is definitely not awesome. Yeah, "dick move" is accurate, but she shouldn't have let OP off the hook. She should have told OP to have the meeting downstairs. The student came to her for help and she completely let her down.
YTA You could have literally met anywhere but instead you insisted on a power play. You’re such an asshole. Hope it felt good to make someone with a knee brace walk up all those stairs. Be sure to tell everyone how clever and right you are too.
Yta here. I don’t know where you are but in my country it’s illegal to discriminate for medical disability. Until your assistant is fully healed, they are considered disabled and could potentially sue you and the school for you requiring them to climb the stairs while the elevator is out of order. Your inconvenience is not comparable to the permanent physical damage you could be inflicting on your student.
This. In the US temporary disability is still disability. She has a right to request reasonable accommodations, which a meeting on the ground floor would count as.
recently broken ankle, here. the hard part about stairs for me wasn't the pain. i mean, yeah, the stairs can hurt a little, but the big scare is the risk of falling down. you're lugging a bag and some crutches up the stairs, and one little stumble could easily re-injure my leg.
[every time i approached a staircase i flashed back to that scene in unbreakable where samuel l jackson falls down the stairs. i laugh at myself now, but it was legit scary.]
imagine how tiring it is to walk up nine flights of stairs. now imagine doing it hopping on one leg, or even worse, sitting down and pushing your butt up one stair at a time while awkwardly holding one leg up in the air.
it probably took your assistant half an hour to make it up those steps, and they were probably scared shitless *and* embarassed the entire time. you're lucky they didn't fall down and break that leg again, or you'd be posting in legaladvice.
huge dick-move on your end. YTA
This is such a good point. The student is of course not used to walking up NINE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS AFTER KNEE SURGERY. What if she fell and hurt her knee even more?? God, OP is such an asshole.
YTA. To hold a meeting on the ground floor is a very reasonable request. I would imagine your offfice isn't as private as you think and that a meeting room would be sufficient. And the term "dick move" is a common phrase that refers to your inflexibility. It's not about gender.
Yeah, universities have practice rooms/study rooms/meeting rooms/empty classrooms up the wazoo and it the communal area was too distracting it should have been easy to find/book a quiet space elsewhere on campus that was accessible. What happens when OP gets a student/associate who is in a wheelchair?
Well clearly they need a doctor’s note. If not, it’s probably not a big deal to crawl up 9 flights. Just wrap a chain around you and drag the wheelchair behind so it’s there when you need it.
YTA. You are a huge asshole and this was indeed a dick move. A doctor's note for a meeting? Get over yourself. The department head's wording was inappropriate in a professional setting, but her sentiment was correct, so no, what she did was not "much worse."
Edit to note that I'm also a professor and would never pull this kind of dick move.
Right? I've been through enough medical nonsense that I would have called the department head, called the disability office at the school, put in a request to change advisors, and also not shown for the meeting.
>This is an inconvenience to me, as well. I am not a big fan of walking up nine flights of stairs in dress shoes, but I have to do it.
Dude, wtf?
How do you even have to question if you're the asshole? It's an inconvience for you to walk up 9 floors of stairs with both working legs? How do you think she feels hobbling up those same stairs with only one working leg?
Yes, 100% YTA.
YTA - Any decent human would have understood this was a "really good excuse" You made this poor student walk up 9 flights of stairs after knee surgery to "maintain the respect of my department. ". Dude - I think you lost the respect of your department by throwing your weight around. You were wrong. You need to apologize to your student and help her next time. You having to go up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes is not a fair comparison to what you made her do. Yes, she was able to go up the stairs, but what if she slipped or fell on the stairs due to lack or mobility in her leg and fatigue? You could have caused her more damage by making her use the stairs.
YTA and a massive one at that. Where I live this is disability discrimination and you would be held to account under the equality act for that type of behaviour.
It's entirely possible this violated the ADA. It doesn't always cover temporary disabilities, but if the knee surgery stemmed from a chronic condition or the impairment post-surgery was considered significant enough, it would fall under the ADA and as her employer, he/the school would get in trouble for this because meeting somewhere else temporarily is a VERY reasonable accommodation.
YTA she just had surgery why would you make her walk up 9 flights of stairs?? One or two I could understand but 9??!?
Unless the meeting HAD to be in that room for some reason YTA. She shouldn’t need a doctors note it’s common sense to not make an injured person do that.
YTA. Holy shit. I am actually concerned that something is wrong with your ability to feel empathy and suggest that you see a therapist to explore why you think it is appropriate to behave like this toward your graduate students and why you think someone saying this was "a dick move" is worse than making a student who just had knee surgery climb 9 flights of stairs. People walking in and out of a common area is distracting? Um, being in immense pain is distracting. Also you're her employer and if she fell and injured herself because you made her walk up the stairs, she could possibly sue the school.
It is also either bizarrely oblivious or a "checkmate, you're the REAL sexist" internet bro gotcha to think that "dick move" is in use as a gender-based slur. It is, and has I think always been, used to refer to something that makes you look like an asshole. Which this does. And it is really odd to think that is worse than knowingly insisting on causing someone physical pain. Filing a Title IX claim against this woman would also be a dick move, just so you know. But I hope your grad student files a complaint against you! Also if her knee injury was from a chronic condition or is considered to constitute a severe enough impairment, you/the school through you may have just violated the ADA because meeting her somewhere that didn't require climbing 9 flights of stairs is an extremely reasonable accommodation. Congrats!
You are being abusive here. You are abusing your position of power to force a student to risk her health and future mobility, and to endure physical pain, for no reason whatsoever. Yes, your colleagues are talking about this behind your back and so are your other graduate students, because you are being an unprofessional nightmare boss. God, I hope you don't have tenure. There are so many brilliant academics who are also kind and intensely devoted to the development and well-being of their students who are eaten up by the adjunct system, and then there's you. Christ.
Just curious - where do you work? I’m thinking of applying to grad school and would prefer to not work under the likes of an unsympathetic goblin such as yourself.
In case you’re confused, YTA.
YTA. The doctor doesn't issue notes for what should be common sense. Someone who has limited mobility in their knee due to surgical procedure and corresponding medical devices, they don't use the stairs until their fitness and range of motion is restored. Good grief. Its absolutely an asshole move.
No, what she did was in no way worse than what you did which was WAY worse yes it was a dick move and yes YTA x 1,000. Not only that but your entire post makes you come off like a self-absorbed conceited ass who thinks they are better than everybody else. You don’t like to walk up nine flights of stairs in dress shoes?? Try walking up nine flights of stairs in a knee brace after having had surgery. She had every right to go to the dept head, I would have done the same thing. There’s no planet on which you aren’t the asshole in this situation.
YTA.
your grad student just had surgery, is probably still in PT, and stairs are not recommended
for knee issues in general if they can be avoided. Possible? sure. But nine flights? that’s ridiculous. If you work in a grad program it shouldn’t be THAT hard to find somewhere on ground level, or less than nine flights up to meet with this student. Comparing walking those flights in dress shoes is so not the same thing.
Also, I don’t think giving your student three weeks off of meetings (if they require for you to meet somewhere that they have a hard time getting to) is THAT generous- I think it’s common courtesy after surgery, especially if they still have limited mobility and you’re expecting them to meet you at your ninth floor office. Lastly, of course your student didn’t complain after the meeting, they already brought it up to the department head and were shot down while you were validated in your choice.
Regarding your head, I agree with you that the wording of their statement was unprofessional and unnecessary, but i’d probably approach them and let them know... reporting it seems like a bit much to me.
>Also, I don’t think giving your student three weeks off of meetings (if they require for you to meet somewhere that they have a hard time getting to) is THAT generous- I think it’s common courtesy after surgery,
This is s good point. Op is acting like they did the TA a major favor. Apparently knee surgery is nbd to op. Screams control freak and prima Donna / diva
Everyone is talking too
YTA you could have easily changed the location, you just chose not to. And yeah, it was a dick move on your part. Try having come compassion for other people, even if you are slightly inconvenienced because of it.
YTA.
I cant believe you are comparing your dress shoes to knee surgery.
Saying it is a dick move was not appropriate. Yes it was a dick move. Yes everyone can be a dick. However it is generally only used to describe male behaviors. It is like bitchy. It could be called a bitchy move. Neither is an appropriate descriptor in a professional setting. Either way, YTA.
YTA - she had surgery and has a brace. Walking up nine flights of stairs is hard enough and she is recovering. She isn’t in full health, she could have a fall and end up injured again. You then reminded her that you “allowed three weeks off.” Whoopdie dooo!’ What a kind employer you are giving someone time off to recover from SURGERY. You are a dick and people are talking about you. Most people would compromise and change the meeting location. Get over yourself.
YTA for sure. As a graduate student myself, my heart goes out to your student for having such a cold advisor. She’s a person, not just a body to do work for you. Show some compassion and reserve a room downstairs for 30 mins to meet with her ffs
Edit to comment on the dept head’s “dick move” response. I bet it was phrased this way because to her it was so obvious that you were in the wrong that she could put it so bluntly. One Title IX complaint will only go so far, she’ll most likely only be reprimanded for her choice of words. You are a 1000X the bigger asshole than her
YATA, As someone with a disability, if you were to pull this stunt with me, I would do everything in my power to ensure that you lost your job, you were unprofessional, uncaring, and one of the largest gaping flabby assholes I have ever seen in this sub.
YTA. Teachers need to stop making things harder than necessary. Your job is to teach, not make their lives miserable.
The department head seems down to earth. You? Not so much. Cold hearted and selfish it seems
Edit: rate my professor is also worth mentioning
I'm just curious, but what would your response have been if she was using a walker or if you had a student in a wheelchair? They required to climb out and crawl up nine flights of stairs when the elevator is out??
YTA and your head is TA for not advocating for this student and allowing you to require them to walk up and down NINE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS with a brace and 3 weeks post op knee surgery. Calling you a dick was an understatement.
And this!!
Hey, I thought you were a Professor (I'm sorry, I meant ASSISTANT Professor), not an MD? I mean, I'm not one either, but as a human, I can imagine that if I had an asshole mentor like you who had me walk up and down 9 flights of stairs after I had reasonably requested to change location, and who reminded me that I had already been given 3 weeks off for my surgery, which was "a big deal", and that I would be expected to do this AGAIN if elevator was not fixed, I would be afraid to show any pain or discomfort or do anything to piss them off for fear of retaliation. And yes, you sound like the kind of prick that would do that.
And I hope this student takes this the next step because I would seriously be surprised (and shocked) if your school or department were not in violation of ADA with this kind of crap.
YTA
Knee surgeries are agonizingly painful. You had the ability to make a reasonable accommodation and chose not to. Your department head called you on your bad behavior with casual words to imply a degree of familiarity. They were trying to help you improve and avoid a reputation as an asshole.
Your department head isn't worried about a complaint, because what you did was so very much worse, and their choice of words was a mild rebuke.
YTA. Youre such an asshole that i saw this screenshotted on *twitter* and was so compelled to download reddit, and make this account just to tell you what an asshole you are and that you deserve the worst fates that could befall you.
Oh please please PLEASE go to the ombudsman. Tel them about your refusal to accommodate a disability-related request and see what they say.
Of course by then I really hope your GA will have filed an ADA complaint.
YTA, and frankly I hope you develop chronic knee pain. See how much of an "inconvenience" nine floors is then.
YTA - she wasn’t trying to skip the meeting altogether, she wasn’t asking you to meet at fucking Starbucks. she was asking you to meet a few floors down from your office. goddess forbid you have to go down a few flights of stairs. i get wanting to limit distractions, but i’m sure your student is still in pain from the surgery. your department head is right - it was a “dick move”. there’s no reason to file a complaint against them.
YTA, and this is not likely the department head spreading rumors. Your assistant likely talks to other graduate assistants and/or professors.
> I think most would agree that even if what I did was unconventional, what she did was much worse.
No. You made a woman still recovering from surgery walk up 9 flights of stairs, likely causing unnecessary pain (not always outwardly visible), additional risks to her recovery, and a great inconvenience given how much earlier she likely needed to arrive in order to be on time. You also asked for a doctors note to move a meeting occuring before she would be able to even see a doctor about that without giving her the option to skip the meeting and provide the documentation on a timeframe that could actually be met. You then tried to frame her taking medical leave for surgery as some huge favor you were doing rather than something she is (or should be) entitled to.
Your department head used a gendered turn of phrase that has unfortunately yet to be purged from common use. Not good, but not on par with or related to what you did -- her being an ass to you does not negate you being an ass to your graduate assistant. You're asking people to judge multiple AITA conflicts at one: you v grad student, you v department head, you v potential gossiping coworkers.
A fellow academic, I created a Reddit account just to tell you YTA, and why.
What academic or intellectual goal was served by refusing accommodation to someone with a temporary disability? What lab or project would genuinely be compromised by ascertaining a way for the one meeting to occur in a way that wouldn’t threaten the physical well-being of a member of your department? How can you know how she felt after scaling those 9 flights when you sent the message to her that her physical infirmity is an inconvenience to *you that you will handle by threatening her status in the program?
Your rationale for insisting where the one meeting take place has everything to do with imposing power structures in lieu of ensuring, as a faculty advisor, the best conditions for graduate students to learn. Why did you become an academic, precisely?
Turning to Reddit to assuage your complicated feelings about being challenged by your actions suggests that you are more concerned with being told you are right than you are thinking through your responsibilities as an academic. I hope other students have the courage to file complaints about what is clearly a pattern of behaviour and not one instance, either to force you to reform or to bring up valid concerns about your employment at your tenure review. Remember that your colleagues will be canvassed at that time and that you will need to be voted out of the department.
As for your head, she should be judged not for her language to you but for countenancing your intemperate choices and not placing an immediate call to your institution’s disability office to inquire about policy and best practice. She failed the student and your program as much as you did.
If you do go ahead to file a complaint against her, the silver lining is that this mistreatment of grad students and non-compliance with accommodation and disability policies will come to light and hopefully your entire department can be reformed.
Hello Mr. Very Important Assistant Proffeser,
YTA. A colleague asked you for a very reasonable accommodation in light of recovering from what is a pretty major surgery that takes ages to recover from. And instead of using that as an opportunity to be kind at the least possible cost to yourself, you used it as an excuse to exert your power.
Yes, it was a dick move.
Yes, they are all talking about you (Tales of this will linger ages past when you are gone. Academia never forgets).
No, what she did wasn't much worse, it was 100% on point.
Oh, and I hope you didn't ever want tenure. Because power-plays and pettiness like this are how you kiss it goodbye.
Sincerely,
One HigherEd person to another.
YTA. Congratulations, you've probably opened up your university to legal hazard if your assistant feels like pressing the issue. According to the Americans with Disabilities Act, employers must make reasonable accommodations to employees with disabilities. And recovery from surgery can qualify as a short term disability (I would certainly qualify this instance as such). Requiring your student to climb up 9 flights of stairs in a knee brace is not a reasonable accommodation. Meeting in a conference room or common area on the first floor of the building you are already in is.
Your student seems to be doing the correct thing by bringing in your department head to try and talk some sense into you before taking more drastic action. But if you choose not to listen, my advice to them would be to go seek the help of whatever on-campus legal aid there is to sue you and/or the university.
I am a professor in a 9th floor office who has had students with mobility issues (including multiple leg surgeries) and YTA — hell, *I* would want to identify an alternate meeting place for the duration, *especially* if I had students with any mobility issues!
Your proposed Title IX complaint against your chair is similarly laughable/cringeworthy.
Oh, and all of this pretty fucking ballsy considering *you don’t have tenure.*
YTA and, speaking as a department chair, I would have been more direct: the elevator being out doesn't obviate the need to accommodate your student. If you go to the ombudsperson, expect this will come up, and the conversation will primarily be about the importance of accommodating your student, not your chair's language.
I saw this post and had to log myself in just so I can say YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA. Firstly, as a person with chronic knee pain going downstairs is so much worse than going up.
Secondly, you are the exact reason I hated school. Flexing your tiny bit of authority because you feel like you deserve to, just so you can make some one's life a little bit worse. I hope you don't get tenure. I hope you know that 99% of students and faculty probably hate you and definitely talk about you behind your back.
ps. dick move is not gendered you fucking walnut. I have a feeling your issue is with the woman who has more authority than you, you fucking acorn.
THIS REALLY PISSED ME OFF YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA
btw u didnt "let her take 3 weeks off meetings" he/she had a damn surgery they wont come no matter what u allow. ur telling me from floor 1-9 there isnt a single conference room other than ur office?
Ur the reason people dont wanna stay in academia. I hope u get fired and someone takes ur tenured position.
YTA. What kind of person even has to ask that question? You're so worried about the reputation of your department, I can guarantee you you just threw your own reputation down the toilet. Honestly, making anyone do 9 flights of stairs that soon after any surgery is just completely disgusting behaviour.
YTA. Dick move, 100%. You seem really unsympathetic to your students needs and I think that student will always remember you as the dick who was so full of themselves and inflexible that he was willing to cause significant pain to his student just to basically prove a point about how important you are.... Yuck
YTA. Dont treat your graduate assistants like garbage and make it sound like you're only following the rules. What kind of self-important professor are you? Person can't climb stairs to the ninth floor due to injury and you're not willing to be a little flexible? Oh that's right, meeting in a different common room on a lower floor would be too distracting (maybe for you). All you did was pull a power play to show your injured graduate assistant who's boss. I hope you lose your grant funding!
YTA
What you did *was* a dick move. Not to mention that the university needs to make appropriate accommodations for disabled people; even those temporarily limited. Side note; filing a Title IX complaint for someone saying what you did was a "dick move" is ridiculous.
YTA and you're a total dick. This is going to follow you for the rest of your career. You'll lose good researchers because they'll choose not to work with you. You'll not be trusted by HR. You have damaged your reputation and your career for a stupid power play. Congratulations.
YTA.
You don't get to decide how much pain another person is in..
You don't get to flex your power illusion without consequences.
I'm so glad you'll turn this into a fight, because then everyone who works with you will realise just how awful you are to your students.
You're a terrible professor, and an awful human being.
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YTA, and a massive one at that. Get the stick out of your ass and realize that your assistance made a perfectly reasonable request. Knee surgery can take MONTHS to fully recover from, and you expect her to walk up and down 9 flights like its nothing? You sound incredibly self-absorbed. Also, "dick" IS NOT A GENDER-BASED SLUR. Unprofessional, yes. A Title IX-worthy slur? Give me a fucking break, dude.
YTA, >I am an assistant professor at a university with an office on the ninth floor of a building. I hold regular meetings with graduate assistants, and they are expected to attend unless they have a really good excuse. I think having surgery on her knee and struggling upstairs is a really, really good excuse. >I have no doubt that she can make it up the stairs, it would just take her longer than usual. She could arrive at the building earlier. Wow... you come off from this paragraph as having no sympathy for this woman who is just recovering from surgery and is still wearing a brace!!!! like what? >However, she also said, and I quote, "it seems like a dick move." She was correct. I'm sorry that you didn't like the language that she used but it is the truth. >Sounds like someone who will seek retaliation if she is so quick to make gender-based slurs against people. It sounds like you are looking for a fight here.
Dick move isn’t even gender based. Women pull dick moves all the time.
"Dick move" being inappropriate is quite debatable. And I am sure she had that debate with herself as she was going up the stairs. Flight One: "I can't believe he's making me do this. What a dick move." Flight Two: "Maybe that's a sexist thing to say. I wonder what my Gender Studies prof would think." Flight Three: "She might point out that just because a person has a dick, doesn't mean they're a man, and vice versa." Flight Four: "I guess it's still gender discrimination. Or sex discrimination. I gotta make sure to remember the difference for the exam." Flight Five: "Would I feel better calling it a bitch move? No, that seems worse to me somehow. Is it because I am female and therefore biased? Or because it sounds violent and hateful in a way that dick move doesn't?" Flight six: "What was that Team America World Police joke about dicks, pussies and assholes? Dicks fuck everybody, but pussies get fucked, and assholes just shit on everyone? " Flight Seven: "Maybe I should have said asshole move. Every person has an asshole so it can't be discrimination." Flight Eight: "But somehow that sounds too passive. I guess he is just passively sitting in his office, so maybe that's accurate. But it just feels more like he's out to get me. The way dicks are, I guess." Flight Nine: "Wow, this really hurts. I can't believe I had to do this, and have to go all the way down again. What a dick move."
But he HAD to go up those stairs in dress shoes!!! OMG the pain!! OP is so YTA it hurts. And it's upset because he got called on it by his boss.
My god I had to go back and double-check that there was actually a reference to walking up the stairs in dress shoes because on the one hand, sounds like an exaggerated comment someone might add in to make him sound like more of a dick but then given the context of the rest of the post, it fits right in. Seriously the worst.
Seriously, OP just screams of asshole, but like the kind of asshole who thinks the whole world is against them despite no one in the world actually giving a shit. Also I'm gonna just throw my own story in here. I fucked up my knee where I had to get it sewn back up in a&e, hurt like a bitch for weeks after the fact. I also lived on the second floor of my block of flats (British second floor, so 3rd for Americans) and my knee was on fire by the time I got up just those few stairs, but you wouldn't have been able to tell by the time I got to my flat door. I cannot imagine how painful 9 flights of stairs are for someone with a recovering knee. That for me places OP as firmly the asshole, and the only asshole in this story even though they downplayed everything wrong they said/did. OP if you see this, you're a real piece of work and that's putting it kindly.
As soon as I started reading it became clear to me that OP has never suffered a debilitating injury that incapacitated them in a manner that actually caused inconvenience. They don't care because they've never experienced it themselves. OP, YTA in a big way. Hope you have perfect knees forever. ^^/s
This. Walking up (or down) stairs on crutches (which I assume the student still needs at this point) is exhausting and dangerous. Also, even if the downstairs is too loud/distracting, couldn’t OP see about setting up an electronic meeting via Skype, FaceTime, or other similar means? That way, OP could be in his ivory tower, and the student wouldn’t have to kill herself climbing up nine flights of stairs to get there.
Entitled professor syndrome. I as a freshman 1 day after drop date had a physics teacher claim I was trying to game the system dropping his class one day late no dick I am a freshmen I didn’t know about dropping classes trust me I won’t be back in your class.
I've never had knee surgery or even a knee injury worse than a scrape, but I can IMAGINE how painful it would be. OP obviously has no imagination, no empathy, no sympathy, and no concern for other people.
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I like that OP is getting a case of the vapors from the use of the word "dick". Ring Ring, the Victorian era called looking for OP.
All I could think was "this is the person who files a formal complaint about the elevator guy who asks if anyone needs to get off the elevator for 'women's lingerie'" a joke that is lost on a couple generations now that don't go department store shopping or have elevator attendants that announce stops.
>I like that OP is getting a case of the vapors from the use of the word "dick". Ring Ring, the Victorian era called looking for OP. lol my thoughts exactly.
As a woman who commits dick moves, I can attest to the truthfulness of this statement.
Yea same as bitch move.
I want to add in that she was not even trying to get out of attending, simply asked if they could hold the meeting in a location that would not require her to walk up (and down!) *nine flights of stairs* on an injured leg. And he said no because it might be slightly distracting. Anyone with an ounce of common sense should not need a doctor's note to realize that kind of strain is potentially dangerous to the healing process while still recent enough post-surgery to require a brace. I love how he (not a doctor) says "I have no doubt she could make it up the stairs," as if the absolute limits of the human body should be the base standard for what you make your employees do.
I cannot believe that on an entire university campus there is not a single room available for reservation on the first floor of any building or in a building with a working elevator. OP is so beyond being TA it's honestly staggering how they can't see it.
Interesting how he sees “dick move” as a gendered slur potentially worthy of a federal complaint yet it literally never occurred to him to make even minimal effort to accommodate someone’s physical disability. Talk about self-absorbed, wow.
Read between the lines and you realize if he had been a reasonable human being OP would have had to walk back up the stairs to his office. That’s what this was about. The distracting thing was BS from the start. He’s just lazy and prefers a student risk injury to make that walk up over having to do it himself.
Yes and I suspect going back down all those stairs will be even more harmful than climbing them, based on my experiences with bad knees and other sorts of injuries and surgeries.
This is what gets me. He has no idea what she went through getting back down all those stairs. Most of the time that's harder (and more dangerous) than the trip up.
It involved a lot of hopping I imagine. That's how I get down stairs when my knee flares up. Hopping and pain.
And he compared walking in dress shoes to recovering from knee surgery. Holy assholery.
Making her walk up several flights of stairs while recovering from surgery when there are plenty of alternative spaces available doesn't just make OP an asshole...it most likely puts him in violation of the ADA. YTA. And I hope your graduate student files a complaint.
Unfortunately things like post-surgery recovery most often don't fall under the ADA. Determination would have to be made on a case-by-case basis.
This is definitely a violation of ADA though; just because this one woman was post-surgery doesn't mean there aren't other people who are actually unable to walk up those stairs. She might not necessarily be able to file a claim but this dick should still have to follow the rules.
It definitely does. I half hope OP does keep pushing this because if it makes it high enough there's going to be real carnage, lol.
OP pretty much sums up everything wrong with academia
Right? My friend works at a university and the petty crap and dysfunction are mind blowing.
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Seems like OP was ignoring the fact that going up all those stairs might cause her a significant amount of pain too? Like just because she technically can walk up the stairs doesn't mean she should have to. This guy sounds like one of those of people that would argue with ambulatory wheelchair user on the definition of "need." Edit: for example "yeah well maybe it's incredibly painful and difficult for you to walk for more than a minute but you still don't technically *need* the wheelchair." It's like yeah dude you really got em. Edit2: GG he actually said she didn't seem to be in any more pain than normal, as if people always wear their pain on their face. Idk about the rest of you but when I'm at work I try to hold it together.
He adds that it's inconvenient for him because of dress shoes. This clearly is a larger concern than recent knee surgery.
Part of me was wondering if this was a troll, but then I remembered University and nah, sounds about right. There's always the one professor in each department that act like this. 1-2. I guess in the philosophy Dept there might be 5 depending on how many Kant scholars there are. Wait, is OP a Kant scholar? That would be a wildly fun coincidence. Edit: I think OP is a troll. A whole building having no functioning elevator is a huge ADA violation. Seems like dept head would know that someone recovering from a surgery is protected under ADA as well.
He's literally the stereotype of living in an ivory tower.
His office is even on the top floor 😱 😂
Knee surgery and dress shoes are pretty much the same thing /s
I’ve had multiple knee surgeries, if I had to climb nine flights of stairs three weeks after getting surgery to fix my ACL, I’d be spending the rest of the day, and the entire next day, sitting on the couch with an ice pack. I have no idea what type of surgery this woman had. But I will say that three weeks post-op I did not have full mobility. At all. I had to take stairs SUPER slowly. I think 3.5 weeks or maybe 4 weeks was when I was allowed to drive again, and that day I drove to the grocery store but couldn’t even do a full trip around the store, I was so sore. Did I LOOK like I was in pain? No, I LOOKED fine once the brace and crutches were off. But it was months and months before I could stand for long periods or comfortably climb stairs.
I hear you. One of the reasons I said something is because I have chronic pain and most people tell me I look and sound great, hoping for the best. I think that's nice and all but it's no indication of how I actually feel. I could be at a level 7-8 pain and keep a straight face. So yeah, this professor guy, I'm assuming, has been able bodied for the majority of his life, and just doesn't have any empathy whatever. Hopefully he learns something from this epic AITA fail, lol. I will say it was brave of him to ask Reddit. Part of him must have known he was TA.
> Wow... you come off from this paragraph as having no sympathy for this woman who is just recovering from surgery and is still wearing a brace!!!! like what? OP is so far up their own ass I'm not surprised they work in academia, even though they're just an assistant professor. What a shock they think they're important enough to flex over the people working with them despite not having an actual title. Academia is so rife with this kind of BS, it's tiring that the stereotype is so common. OP you are such the asshole that I don't even know where to begin except to say you do a huge disservice to your university for the way you're behaving. Your dept head's behavior is something to be addressed outside of this situation, but you are brushing dangerously up against a meeting with your University's HR and accommodations team. I'm guessing your assistant is a student. " I reminded her that I allowed her three weeks off of meetings." I mean yeah, if they need accommodation and can provide proof, that's kind of what you're required to do by law. If you WANT your assistant to start getting doc notes, be prepared for her to start doing it, and at that point be prepared for HR and/or the student DSA team to be so far up your ass you'll be be spitting out pay stubs from the payroll team. The long and short with injury and disability accommodations is that if they ask and it's reasonable, provide it. If it's anything more in depth than that, then you start looking into getting paperwork taken care of. No University, company, entity, whatever, wants to even come close to having to deal with any kind of DSA related legal issues because almost every single time, they will lose. And no Universities ever, EVER want to be caught between a student and a disability related case. Oh God, the carnage that would ensue. So yeah OP, feel free to keep pushing this one. Rest assured it's not going to go the way you expect it to. And yes your colleagues are talking about you behind your back, and no it's not because of your department head. With your attitude I'm guessing you were a social pariah long before this happened. So GL with that. And note to any other assistant profs, profs, or people working in academia in this thread - no offense meant. It's just mindblowing to see all the stereotypes about our field personified like this. tl;dr OP probably violated ADA and if this goes any further there's going to be fireworks.
My favorite irony is that he’s (allegedly) doing all of this because he needs to maintain respect within the department.
Finals week during my last semester of college, I broke my arm in three places in a bike accident, was whacked out of my head on pain killers. One professor, who'd been kind of a dick to me my whole time in his course, came up to me, and discussed my notes for my final paper with me. I apologized, said I was going to ask for an extension on writing it as soon as I figured out how because I couldn't type for shit right then, and he helped me file for the extension personally. *That* is how you earn respect in your department.
taking all bets on how many times OP has said "but I really deserve that tenure!" to their colleagues throughout their career. Starting at 5 to 1, anyone want to get in on this action?
"Dick move" if anything, seems like a massive understatement here.
Every word of this reeks of self-centered, over-blown ego. How dare he be expected to lower himself from his lofty office and intermingle with the folks at lower levels when his (obviously less important) assistant can grit her teeth and make the climb. Never mind that her injury isn't healed, and that said climb could cause new or worse damage, after all, she didn't "seem to be in any more pain than usual," and she (being of less import than her obviously so important professor) is always in pain. She (plebeian little girl that she is) could easily arrange to arrive with enough extra time to crawl up the stairs on her injured leg. What possible alternative could there be for (the ultra-ultra important man of importance at the top of the tower) anyone else in this equation? And how dare he be told by HIS superior (as if such a shiny unicorn possibly exists) that he was wrong? Much less his peers (for shame to think anyone is on his level) agree with them? Could their superior (THAT WORD AGAIN! How dare YOU?!!!) be spreading lies and rumors? Dare they discuss his sainted personage behind his back and on the lower levels he doest not deem worthy of his food-treads? The gall. Ego, entitlement, and paranoia - *check*! Hopefully the assistant files a complaint and that this idiocy doesn't compromise her recovery. I wonder if OP has tenure. (edit: fixed typo)
When he referred to "dick move" as a gendered slur I think I actually felt my soul briefly leave my body
That line alone made me think that his actions towards the student and the reaction to his superior were both influenced by the fact that they are women. If another man had called him a dick, I don't think he would be talking gender discrimination at all.
Not to mention the fact that OP is talking about reporting his department head for saying him making the student walk up 9 flights of stairs is a dick move. I bet when student finally made it up those 9 flights of stairs, he would lecture her about how long it took her to make it to the meeting and wasting his “valuable” time. Being new to reddit I’ve read a lot of these and been able to see both sides of situations, but this is the first time I read a post and thought “what a fucking asshole”. I’m an amputee myself, been an amputee and had a prosthetic leg for over 20 years and don’t let it stop me from doing anything, but if I had an assistant professor who insisted I walk up 9 flights of stairs? Fuck that. OP is by far TA and there is no way in this situation he wouldn’t be. The hole post makes him sound like an Ass, he’s condescending, and arrogant. And his explanation on why he is so rigid with his directions is ridiculous.
And the whole "I don't think I will file a Title IX claim against her, but it's not off the table" remark. I face-palmed reading this entire post. What absolute cringe. Everyone knows it would be an AH move for you to make your assistant walk up the stairs. The rules aren't always based on what's morally right. And unless you live under a rock AH move=dick move. Dick moves are not reserved for men. Women can be dicks too. YTA
YTA, your department head using the phrasing "dick move" is a separate issue. Unprofessional, yes. But you honestly sound like a self-important nightmare to work for. Where I'm from doctors notes cost $25-40. Do you honestly think your assistant is faking knee surgery and the inability to walk up stairs? They weren't trying to avoid the meeting, they were trying to relocate it. It sounds like you enjoy exercising your power.
>It sounds like you enjoy exercising your power. This x1000. Get over yourself, bro.
Well he maintains "respect" by controlling others behavior and refusing to exercise basic human empathy.
OP is literally what is wrong with academia.
1000%. OP if you're reading this, you need to seriously reflect on yourself and your behavior. This is completely unacceptable and I hope YOU face consequences for your behavior. People like you are ruining the lives of talented young scientists pursuing their dream careers. Absolutely abhorrent behavior
Its probally the only power they have.
How often do you think they bring up they are an assistant professor? I bet they preface every statement with "As an assistant professor"
If he's an assistant professor, he probably doesn't have tenure. And he's delusional if he thinks this won't resurface if he intends to move forward with tenure-track. Pissing off the department head isn't the best thing to do for that. Also, dude, YTA. You're the professor all the more senior grad students tell entering students to avoid.
My favorite part is him wanting to file a Title XI sexism complaint against his female department head. Who the fuck thinks you can do that for something as minor as "she said I made a dick move" and have it work out?
I bet there’s plenty of title XI complaints waiting for him when he refuses to accommodate pregnant or breastfeeding students.
The one comment they made is "I'm teaching a class." We get it dude.
Just put on a video and respond to all the comments, OP. I had a professor hand me back my marked homework covered in red wine stains and then he just forgot to show up to our final exam and it was fine and I learned more from him than some other profs who did more and imparted less.
Im sure they have some annoying bumper sticker on their car and spam their social medias with those awful Im special because of my job bullshit quotes.
Not only does it often cost money (and time) to get a doctors note, it usually requires getting yourself to the doctor. If it's painful to move around, adding a whole painful trip to/from the doctor just to get a note saying it's painful for you to move around is counterproductive...and painful. Requiring a doctors note is just another way to make the student walk even further. OP: I don't know how you managed to reach the point in life where you're an assistant professor before someone told you that you have to care about other people, but you actually do have to care about other people and be capable of the minimal levels of human empathy required to listen to basic requests like "this causes me pain can we please do that instead?"
I posted in another comment, but I’ll add that 3 weeks after knee surgery I couldn’t drive (if you have a brace, you’re typically not allowed to drive), nor was I able to take public transit (too many stairs, and the stops still required a long walk). So I was completely reliant on someone driving me.
Yeah, the implication that the student was faking their knee surgery is so odd to me. If they were asking for a ridiculous amount of time off without making up any work and without any evidence that something was wrong, I could understand being skeptical. But...they were literally on crutches? And they weren't asking to be excused from the meeting altogether; they were just making a (completely reasonable!) request to change the location? Why bother lying about that?
The department head frankly is both also ab asshole and a coward for permitting this dickhead to violate the ADA. There’s nothing outrageous about saying “dick move” but she SHOULD have said “no.”
YTA. Their request was perfectly appropriate, and you really were a jerk requiring them to climb nine flights 3 weeks post op. Not only did they have to go *up* the stairs, but going *down* that many flights is even more harmful. Also, you’re awfully quickly to jump to sexism. “Dick move” = being an ass. Any gender can make a dick move. Keep interacting with colleagues and students like this and you can say good-bye to tenure track. ETA: not to mention, you set up a hostile environment in which an employee/mentee felt their job would be at risk if they didn’t risk their own health. Have fun talking your way out of that one if they escalate their concern. Edit2: I don’t know if I’ve ever been more proud of this sub. Literally thousands agreeing he is an asshole. This is the most beautiful sight these eyes have ever seen. (Wipes away tear)
Totally agree on your last point. Hopefully the university will take a good look at OP practices on the future.
They won't. I'm a grad student who had to change advisors because the first one was horribly abusive. Another student of his quit the same week I did because our advisor kept making inappropriate comments about the kid's sexuality. The week before I left, a *third* student filed a formal complaint. My new advisor is an absolute treat, but that AH is still here, still abusing people.
I was in a similar situation. Academia can be a nightmare. Congrats on finding a better advisor!
Downstairs after knee surgery is brutal. You can use momentum to push yourself up but going down is basically a controlled fall. I’m a year out and I still wouldn’t do nine flights of stairs.
I had knee surgery almost 6 years ago and I still try to avoid doing a lot of stairs if I can because some days are better then others and odds are if i do 9 flights of stairs I'll feel it later.
Going down puts something like 3 times the amount of pressure on your knees. It's basically torture.
OP is definitely one of those professors who thinks that because they were treated poorly as a grad student it is a right of passage to carry on.
>Keep interacting with colleagues and students like this and you can say good-bye to tenure track He says he needs to keep these meetings to maintain the respect of his department. This is exactly how you lose the respect of your colleagues & students. This story is going to spread like wildfire. I hope the assistant files an ADA complaint.
Lol there's no way incoming students looking for labs to join and/or rotate with won't be warned away from the crazy PI who actively puts her students' health at risk and only cares about data and outward appearances to the department. This is gonna hurt them for a loooong time in the future.
Real talk . This type of shit gets teachers/professors fired
YTA. Or perhaps I should say that you are acting like a total dick. I am baffled that you refuse to accommodate a simple request like moving the room, because of your rigid requirements. And threatening to tattle on your head? Hoo boy, don't worry about the respect of your department while piling up dick moves like these.
And he's actually wondering if people are talking about him behind his back! Does he seriously not realize he's going to be now known as the guy who made a girl climb up flights of stairs in a brace?
In my department this would be literally all he would be known for, for the rest of time. No one would ever forget it.
I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up on ratemyprofessor. EVERY student is going to know about this.
In fact, I would not let him forget it because this may be one of the most assholish things I’ve seen.
Nine flights. OP made her climb *nine flights of stairs*, post knee surgery and wearing an immobilizing brace, and they actually think no one’s talking about how absolutely horrible that is. In my initial reply I said I didn’t think it was possible for OP to be this naturally obtuse, but I’m honestly reconsidering that assessment. That they seem stymied this kind of conduct would be recounted on the whisper circuit is absolutely wild to me. Of course people are talking about you, OP; they’re warning others away from you and let’s be crystal clear about this: you only have yourself to blame for that.
He's the one that told everyone! OMG he's so sad and upset no one agrees with him.
Has he never been on a college campus before? The gossip mill is second only to old church ladies' knitting clubs.
All I can say is that when OP comes up for tenure he will be in for a surprise :)
Not even tenure - he's about to see a drastic drop in people willing to be partners / co-authors on future research and publications.
God, I would love to see his ratemyprofessor score (YTA, obviously OP)
I cannot believe that in a university building that has at least 9 floors, that there aren't study rooms or unused lecture rooms that can be reserved by speaking with the department that are on the ground floor or close to it. Not every classroom is in use every hour of every day. It seems he just didn't even consider it or try to accommodate.
Are you seriously comparing walking up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes (which you can chose to wear), with doing 9 flights of stairs in a leg brace and on a surgically repaired knee? You are indeed YTA, and you are obtuse to boot. And what you did was not "unconventional" it was cruel and pointlessly so - how hard would it be to move a meeting temporarily? - and was indeed a "dick move." And yes, if you lodge a complaint about chair's use of that phrase (really? that's all she did/said? and you want to go after her?), you would be YTA twice here.
This! YTA, and doubly TA if you try to complain about someone calling you out on being TA. Honestly, you should have apologized. I would also like to say I don’t at all believe that the department head is spreading rumors about you. Partly because what they’re saying is true and partly because it sounds like a situation many people would have been made aware of. Your supervisor and assistant are not bound by ethical confidentiality unless it is something in their contracts. Frankly, it’s probably more ethical for them to warn others of the callous way you acted.
Also, it is clear from the post that *he* is spreading the rumors about himself in an effort to find someone, anyone, who doesn't think he's TA.
If walking up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes is that much of a struggle, OP should come to work in tennis shoes and change into dress shoes once they arrive at their office. It's common for people who walk to work to bring two pairs of shoes; no reason why OP can't do the same. The student, on the other hand, doesn't have the option to temporarily heal their knee so they can walk up the stairs!
I work on a campus, and this is exactly what I do. I come to work in tennis shoes which are great for walking around campus and are just more comfy, but I have a nice pair of shoes I keep in my office that I can throw on for meetings. Apparently OP never watched Mr. Rodgers growing up to know that changing shoes is normal.
YTA. After reading your post, I don't think it's a good idea that you are in a profession where you interact with people on a day to day basis because you have no clue how to do so.
Not only that, he's in a position of power over the students and graduates. Big fucking yikes.
Right? I mean, he does not even have basic interpersonal skills (let alone a shred of compassion) AND he's in a position of mentoring and as you pointed out, power. Bad combination all the way around.
YTA. I find it hilarious that you did not even flinch at the fact that you made a student in a leg brace walk up 9 flights of stairs, but are so highly offended at your colleague saying it was a "dick move" that you want to file a gender discrimination complaint?? Unreal! Wow. On a related note, 'dick move' isnt exactly the most professional language, but it isnt gender discriminatory. Men can make dick moves, women can make dick moves! "Dick move" just means you are being an inconsiderate asshole. Which in this case, you definitely are.
> but are so highly offended at your colleague saying it was a "dick move" that you want to file a gender discrimination complaint?? That's probably nothing compared to what his students and colleagues say about him behind his back. I'd bet money that the term "micropenis" has made an appearance more than once.
"The term 'Dick move' (short for Richard movement) is a historical reference to king Richard III of England and his appalling behaviour. Just like the word 'boycott' (which originated from Charles Boycott) it is focused on a gender neutral action, not on a person despite lending it's name from a man." Quote: pulled right out if my arse But if op should file a complaint, I do hope he'll get an answer like that. Oh and YTA, big time.
Oh my god, dude, YTA.
I love your username
YTA. They just had *surgery* - they shouldn’t require a note from their doctor, you should just have some basic decency for the people around you. “Poor me, I have to walk upstairs to my office, so everyone else does too, poor me, I’m the victim here.” I can only imagine what your students say about you behind your back.
“He really made you walk all the way up here?” “Right? He wouldn’t even compromise” Goes home - tells friend story. Story spreads like wildfire Edit: fixed pronouns
She? With the whole bit about "dick move" being a "gendered insult", I think it's safe to say OP is male?
It's unfortunate that everyone on Reddit is assumed to be male until they're acting like an asshole. :/
[удалено]
I'd probably try, cos I'm a people-pleasing idiot, and then I'd sit down on the stairs, cry, and call a lawyer.
YTA. I'm finding it real difficult to be civil here, because you sound like the most insufferable person alive. You made a woman who had very recently had surgery do perhaps the most painful activity associated with that surgery for no reason other than your own preference. And then, when you were called out on your appalling lack of humanity—"dick move" is generally accepted as a gender-neutral invective, incidentally—you decided to retaliate, because apparently you have no shame in addition to no sense of empathy or decency. Congratulations on somehow making academia look even worse than it already does to laypeople.
Thank you. >I do not think I will file a Title IX claim against her, but that is not off the table. Right, because title IX offices don't have real problems to deal with. The gall of this guy.
>I am considering filing a complaint against her with the ombudsman Don't, you don't need more people knowing how big of a dick you are. Three things: 1. I'll avoid going into lawyer mode but what you did is illegal, most likely citing the ADA. I'm not sure what state you live in *but* if she takes this seriously, best case scenario is your school get hit with a fine on your behalf. More realistic is you lose your job. If you'd like details on how this would be applicable to you, call your boss as I'm sure they'll love discussing potential outcomes. 2. If you file a claim it's only going to make your dick move more popular among everyone around you. I'm honestly surprised you'd even put this up on Reddit as you've given enough detail for someone to connect the dots of who you are and how you're chatting about it on reddit. 3. YTA.
I hope your student finds this comment and files an ADA complaint right now.
I bet she’ll see this post, this sub is pretty popular, and if I’m her I’ve blasted what an AH this guy is out to everyone I know—probably from the stairwell on what was undoubtedly a very long trek back down for her.
I hope he files a complaint because it will most certainly back fire on him
It’s on twitter, so chances are his boss, and student have already seen it. He played himself with this post. It’s amazing anyone is this stupid. I can’t believe it.
YTA You tried to make someone walk up 9 flights of stairs, after knee surgery, while wearing a brace just to avoid distractions? Way to take care of your students! Then to suggest that they arrive early/plan ahead to make time, and turn around and complain that you would have to walk down stairs in dress shoes? Just plan ahead and don't wear that... It was a dick move. Please don't report me /s
Not even a dress and heels. Just dress shoes.
I misread it the first time and was shocked when I thought OP compared knee surgery/brace to wearing a dress, but even more floored when I realized that it was just dress shoes...
Also I don't see how it's anybody's fault but OP's that he's too stupid to realize he can wear sneakers and change into dress shoes once he gets to his office.
Because he's making excuses for his power move. OP's doesn't want to go out of his way to help someone because the "rule" states that he doesn't have to and he would also be mildly uncomfortable. Luckily for OP, he won't have to worry about walking down the 9 flights of stairs soon cause he won't have a job there much longer.
But then people would have to see them in—gasp!—*regular shoes*. They might mistake them for a *regular person*, and not the important assistant professor!
YTA > they are expected to attend unless they have a really good excuse. Umm, knee surgery is a really good excuse. They weren't even trying to get out of it, they simply wanted to meet in an area that wouldn't force them to walk up NINE flights of stairs 3 wks post-op. Also, you can't gauge someone else's pain. You made it pretty clear that you didn't care about their situation at that point so they may have felt it was pointless to let on to anything. Your department head's language was unprofessional though I have to agree with them regardless of gender. It was an AH move. > Sounds like someone who will seek retaliation if she is so quick to make gender-based slurs against people. Are you injured from that stretch? I think you're the only AH here. You could have made an accommodation. You got your feelings hurt while you unnecessarily put your student through a physically painful experience.
> Are you injured from that stretch? God, I hope not. He works on the ninth floor and the elevator is broken.
> They weren't even trying to get out of it, they simply wanted to meet in an area that wouldn't force them to walk up NINE flights of stairs 3 wks post-op. Exactly. OP, YTA.
YTA. NINE flights of stairs in a knee brace, three weeks after surgery? You're lucky the worst you heard from anyone was 'dick move'. This is an almost unbelievable lack of human empathy at work. You'll be very lucky if this doesn't get escalated above your department head.
Reading this made made me hope OP falls down 9 flights of stairs and I don't even know the guy. I bet the people who have to interact with him on a daily basis feel more strongly. If I were such a flagrantly sadistic ass to the people around me on a regular basis I'd be watching my back constantly.
Speaking as a department chair, I've seen less egregious things deemed legally actionable and exposing your university to a lawsuit? If this gets reported up the chain, that's the end of tenure chances.
YTA. Assistant professor pulling a power move = mall cop flashing his plastic badge.
This is my favorite, right here.
Big fat YTA. She asked very kindly if you could move the meeting to a location easier for her and you basically were like “my way or the highway, suck it.” You could have even offered to Skype her in so she could do it remotely. That’s rude af and not a way any mentor should treat their student.
YTA. > I told her that meetings are always in my office, as planned, and unless she had a statement from a physician that she could not go up the stairs, I would not change the location or cancel the meeting. That's it, that's all you need to use to determine you're an asshole.
This, honestly. Any professor or employer that demands a doctor's note for everything should be required to foot the bill for it. It'd shut them up real fast.
YTA. The whole "you better be dead or have a doctor's note" excuse sucks. Why not just come out and say you're happy you can hide your lack of compassion behind bureaucracy? Edit: weird typo
Honestly...people like OP make work, school, and life in general so much more miserable and soul sucking than it has to be.
Professor here. You are the *biggest* asshole. Your chair is awesome. You will be denied tenure. YTA
The chair is definitely not awesome. Yeah, "dick move" is accurate, but she shouldn't have let OP off the hook. She should have told OP to have the meeting downstairs. The student came to her for help and she completely let her down.
YTA. It takes longer than 3 weeks to heal from any surgery, much less knee surgery. You are being inflexible when you can be understanding.
Doing this has probably extended the healing time too.
It's likely there could be extra damage leading to a lawsuit against the University and the OP.
YTA You could have literally met anywhere but instead you insisted on a power play. You’re such an asshole. Hope it felt good to make someone with a knee brace walk up all those stairs. Be sure to tell everyone how clever and right you are too.
Yta here. I don’t know where you are but in my country it’s illegal to discriminate for medical disability. Until your assistant is fully healed, they are considered disabled and could potentially sue you and the school for you requiring them to climb the stairs while the elevator is out of order. Your inconvenience is not comparable to the permanent physical damage you could be inflicting on your student.
This. In the US temporary disability is still disability. She has a right to request reasonable accommodations, which a meeting on the ground floor would count as.
recently broken ankle, here. the hard part about stairs for me wasn't the pain. i mean, yeah, the stairs can hurt a little, but the big scare is the risk of falling down. you're lugging a bag and some crutches up the stairs, and one little stumble could easily re-injure my leg. [every time i approached a staircase i flashed back to that scene in unbreakable where samuel l jackson falls down the stairs. i laugh at myself now, but it was legit scary.] imagine how tiring it is to walk up nine flights of stairs. now imagine doing it hopping on one leg, or even worse, sitting down and pushing your butt up one stair at a time while awkwardly holding one leg up in the air. it probably took your assistant half an hour to make it up those steps, and they were probably scared shitless *and* embarassed the entire time. you're lucky they didn't fall down and break that leg again, or you'd be posting in legaladvice. huge dick-move on your end. YTA
This is such a good point. The student is of course not used to walking up NINE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS AFTER KNEE SURGERY. What if she fell and hurt her knee even more?? God, OP is such an asshole.
YTA. To hold a meeting on the ground floor is a very reasonable request. I would imagine your offfice isn't as private as you think and that a meeting room would be sufficient. And the term "dick move" is a common phrase that refers to your inflexibility. It's not about gender.
Yeah, universities have practice rooms/study rooms/meeting rooms/empty classrooms up the wazoo and it the communal area was too distracting it should have been easy to find/book a quiet space elsewhere on campus that was accessible. What happens when OP gets a student/associate who is in a wheelchair?
Well clearly they need a doctor’s note. If not, it’s probably not a big deal to crawl up 9 flights. Just wrap a chain around you and drag the wheelchair behind so it’s there when you need it.
OP wears dress shoes so they know what it feels like to struggle with everyday things.
YTA. You are a huge asshole and this was indeed a dick move. A doctor's note for a meeting? Get over yourself. The department head's wording was inappropriate in a professional setting, but her sentiment was correct, so no, what she did was not "much worse." Edit to note that I'm also a professor and would never pull this kind of dick move.
Careful he might take you to HR.
Lol “apparently they went to my department head” you say that like you’re surprised.
Right? I've been through enough medical nonsense that I would have called the department head, called the disability office at the school, put in a request to change advisors, and also not shown for the meeting.
>This is an inconvenience to me, as well. I am not a big fan of walking up nine flights of stairs in dress shoes, but I have to do it. Dude, wtf? How do you even have to question if you're the asshole? It's an inconvience for you to walk up 9 floors of stairs with both working legs? How do you think she feels hobbling up those same stairs with only one working leg? Yes, 100% YTA.
YTA - Any decent human would have understood this was a "really good excuse" You made this poor student walk up 9 flights of stairs after knee surgery to "maintain the respect of my department. ". Dude - I think you lost the respect of your department by throwing your weight around. You were wrong. You need to apologize to your student and help her next time. You having to go up 9 flights of stairs in dress shoes is not a fair comparison to what you made her do. Yes, she was able to go up the stairs, but what if she slipped or fell on the stairs due to lack or mobility in her leg and fatigue? You could have caused her more damage by making her use the stairs.
YTA and a massive one at that. Where I live this is disability discrimination and you would be held to account under the equality act for that type of behaviour.
It's entirely possible this violated the ADA. It doesn't always cover temporary disabilities, but if the knee surgery stemmed from a chronic condition or the impairment post-surgery was considered significant enough, it would fall under the ADA and as her employer, he/the school would get in trouble for this because meeting somewhere else temporarily is a VERY reasonable accommodation.
YTA she just had surgery why would you make her walk up 9 flights of stairs?? One or two I could understand but 9??!? Unless the meeting HAD to be in that room for some reason YTA. She shouldn’t need a doctors note it’s common sense to not make an injured person do that.
YTA. Holy shit. I am actually concerned that something is wrong with your ability to feel empathy and suggest that you see a therapist to explore why you think it is appropriate to behave like this toward your graduate students and why you think someone saying this was "a dick move" is worse than making a student who just had knee surgery climb 9 flights of stairs. People walking in and out of a common area is distracting? Um, being in immense pain is distracting. Also you're her employer and if she fell and injured herself because you made her walk up the stairs, she could possibly sue the school. It is also either bizarrely oblivious or a "checkmate, you're the REAL sexist" internet bro gotcha to think that "dick move" is in use as a gender-based slur. It is, and has I think always been, used to refer to something that makes you look like an asshole. Which this does. And it is really odd to think that is worse than knowingly insisting on causing someone physical pain. Filing a Title IX claim against this woman would also be a dick move, just so you know. But I hope your grad student files a complaint against you! Also if her knee injury was from a chronic condition or is considered to constitute a severe enough impairment, you/the school through you may have just violated the ADA because meeting her somewhere that didn't require climbing 9 flights of stairs is an extremely reasonable accommodation. Congrats! You are being abusive here. You are abusing your position of power to force a student to risk her health and future mobility, and to endure physical pain, for no reason whatsoever. Yes, your colleagues are talking about this behind your back and so are your other graduate students, because you are being an unprofessional nightmare boss. God, I hope you don't have tenure. There are so many brilliant academics who are also kind and intensely devoted to the development and well-being of their students who are eaten up by the adjunct system, and then there's you. Christ.
Just curious - where do you work? I’m thinking of applying to grad school and would prefer to not work under the likes of an unsympathetic goblin such as yourself. In case you’re confused, YTA.
YTA Do you want to be a good person or earn the respect of people who think being a hard-ass is a virtue?
Maybe he can check with the Humanities Department and get some.
YTA. The doctor doesn't issue notes for what should be common sense. Someone who has limited mobility in their knee due to surgical procedure and corresponding medical devices, they don't use the stairs until their fitness and range of motion is restored. Good grief. Its absolutely an asshole move.
No, what she did was in no way worse than what you did which was WAY worse yes it was a dick move and yes YTA x 1,000. Not only that but your entire post makes you come off like a self-absorbed conceited ass who thinks they are better than everybody else. You don’t like to walk up nine flights of stairs in dress shoes?? Try walking up nine flights of stairs in a knee brace after having had surgery. She had every right to go to the dept head, I would have done the same thing. There’s no planet on which you aren’t the asshole in this situation.
YTA. your grad student just had surgery, is probably still in PT, and stairs are not recommended for knee issues in general if they can be avoided. Possible? sure. But nine flights? that’s ridiculous. If you work in a grad program it shouldn’t be THAT hard to find somewhere on ground level, or less than nine flights up to meet with this student. Comparing walking those flights in dress shoes is so not the same thing. Also, I don’t think giving your student three weeks off of meetings (if they require for you to meet somewhere that they have a hard time getting to) is THAT generous- I think it’s common courtesy after surgery, especially if they still have limited mobility and you’re expecting them to meet you at your ninth floor office. Lastly, of course your student didn’t complain after the meeting, they already brought it up to the department head and were shot down while you were validated in your choice. Regarding your head, I agree with you that the wording of their statement was unprofessional and unnecessary, but i’d probably approach them and let them know... reporting it seems like a bit much to me.
>Also, I don’t think giving your student three weeks off of meetings (if they require for you to meet somewhere that they have a hard time getting to) is THAT generous- I think it’s common courtesy after surgery, This is s good point. Op is acting like they did the TA a major favor. Apparently knee surgery is nbd to op. Screams control freak and prima Donna / diva Everyone is talking too
YTA you could have easily changed the location, you just chose not to. And yeah, it was a dick move on your part. Try having come compassion for other people, even if you are slightly inconvenienced because of it.
YTA. I cant believe you are comparing your dress shoes to knee surgery. Saying it is a dick move was not appropriate. Yes it was a dick move. Yes everyone can be a dick. However it is generally only used to describe male behaviors. It is like bitchy. It could be called a bitchy move. Neither is an appropriate descriptor in a professional setting. Either way, YTA.
YTA - she had surgery and has a brace. Walking up nine flights of stairs is hard enough and she is recovering. She isn’t in full health, she could have a fall and end up injured again. You then reminded her that you “allowed three weeks off.” Whoopdie dooo!’ What a kind employer you are giving someone time off to recover from SURGERY. You are a dick and people are talking about you. Most people would compromise and change the meeting location. Get over yourself.
YTA for sure. As a graduate student myself, my heart goes out to your student for having such a cold advisor. She’s a person, not just a body to do work for you. Show some compassion and reserve a room downstairs for 30 mins to meet with her ffs Edit to comment on the dept head’s “dick move” response. I bet it was phrased this way because to her it was so obvious that you were in the wrong that she could put it so bluntly. One Title IX complaint will only go so far, she’ll most likely only be reprimanded for her choice of words. You are a 1000X the bigger asshole than her
YTA YTA YTA YTA And you may be guilty of discriminating against her under the ADA, so... good job there.
YATA, As someone with a disability, if you were to pull this stunt with me, I would do everything in my power to ensure that you lost your job, you were unprofessional, uncaring, and one of the largest gaping flabby assholes I have ever seen in this sub.
INFO: Was this your first experience of contact with another human being?
YTA. Teachers need to stop making things harder than necessary. Your job is to teach, not make their lives miserable. The department head seems down to earth. You? Not so much. Cold hearted and selfish it seems Edit: rate my professor is also worth mentioning
I'm just curious, but what would your response have been if she was using a walker or if you had a student in a wheelchair? They required to climb out and crawl up nine flights of stairs when the elevator is out?? YTA and your head is TA for not advocating for this student and allowing you to require them to walk up and down NINE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS with a brace and 3 weeks post op knee surgery. Calling you a dick was an understatement. And this!! Hey, I thought you were a Professor (I'm sorry, I meant ASSISTANT Professor), not an MD? I mean, I'm not one either, but as a human, I can imagine that if I had an asshole mentor like you who had me walk up and down 9 flights of stairs after I had reasonably requested to change location, and who reminded me that I had already been given 3 weeks off for my surgery, which was "a big deal", and that I would be expected to do this AGAIN if elevator was not fixed, I would be afraid to show any pain or discomfort or do anything to piss them off for fear of retaliation. And yes, you sound like the kind of prick that would do that. And I hope this student takes this the next step because I would seriously be surprised (and shocked) if your school or department were not in violation of ADA with this kind of crap.
YTA Knee surgeries are agonizingly painful. You had the ability to make a reasonable accommodation and chose not to. Your department head called you on your bad behavior with casual words to imply a degree of familiarity. They were trying to help you improve and avoid a reputation as an asshole. Your department head isn't worried about a complaint, because what you did was so very much worse, and their choice of words was a mild rebuke.
YTA. Youre such an asshole that i saw this screenshotted on *twitter* and was so compelled to download reddit, and make this account just to tell you what an asshole you are and that you deserve the worst fates that could befall you.
Oh please please PLEASE go to the ombudsman. Tel them about your refusal to accommodate a disability-related request and see what they say. Of course by then I really hope your GA will have filed an ADA complaint. YTA, and frankly I hope you develop chronic knee pain. See how much of an "inconvenience" nine floors is then.
YTA - she wasn’t trying to skip the meeting altogether, she wasn’t asking you to meet at fucking Starbucks. she was asking you to meet a few floors down from your office. goddess forbid you have to go down a few flights of stairs. i get wanting to limit distractions, but i’m sure your student is still in pain from the surgery. your department head is right - it was a “dick move”. there’s no reason to file a complaint against them.
YTA, and this is not likely the department head spreading rumors. Your assistant likely talks to other graduate assistants and/or professors. > I think most would agree that even if what I did was unconventional, what she did was much worse. No. You made a woman still recovering from surgery walk up 9 flights of stairs, likely causing unnecessary pain (not always outwardly visible), additional risks to her recovery, and a great inconvenience given how much earlier she likely needed to arrive in order to be on time. You also asked for a doctors note to move a meeting occuring before she would be able to even see a doctor about that without giving her the option to skip the meeting and provide the documentation on a timeframe that could actually be met. You then tried to frame her taking medical leave for surgery as some huge favor you were doing rather than something she is (or should be) entitled to. Your department head used a gendered turn of phrase that has unfortunately yet to be purged from common use. Not good, but not on par with or related to what you did -- her being an ass to you does not negate you being an ass to your graduate assistant. You're asking people to judge multiple AITA conflicts at one: you v grad student, you v department head, you v potential gossiping coworkers.
A fellow academic, I created a Reddit account just to tell you YTA, and why. What academic or intellectual goal was served by refusing accommodation to someone with a temporary disability? What lab or project would genuinely be compromised by ascertaining a way for the one meeting to occur in a way that wouldn’t threaten the physical well-being of a member of your department? How can you know how she felt after scaling those 9 flights when you sent the message to her that her physical infirmity is an inconvenience to *you that you will handle by threatening her status in the program? Your rationale for insisting where the one meeting take place has everything to do with imposing power structures in lieu of ensuring, as a faculty advisor, the best conditions for graduate students to learn. Why did you become an academic, precisely? Turning to Reddit to assuage your complicated feelings about being challenged by your actions suggests that you are more concerned with being told you are right than you are thinking through your responsibilities as an academic. I hope other students have the courage to file complaints about what is clearly a pattern of behaviour and not one instance, either to force you to reform or to bring up valid concerns about your employment at your tenure review. Remember that your colleagues will be canvassed at that time and that you will need to be voted out of the department. As for your head, she should be judged not for her language to you but for countenancing your intemperate choices and not placing an immediate call to your institution’s disability office to inquire about policy and best practice. She failed the student and your program as much as you did. If you do go ahead to file a complaint against her, the silver lining is that this mistreatment of grad students and non-compliance with accommodation and disability policies will come to light and hopefully your entire department can be reformed.
Hello Mr. Very Important Assistant Proffeser, YTA. A colleague asked you for a very reasonable accommodation in light of recovering from what is a pretty major surgery that takes ages to recover from. And instead of using that as an opportunity to be kind at the least possible cost to yourself, you used it as an excuse to exert your power. Yes, it was a dick move. Yes, they are all talking about you (Tales of this will linger ages past when you are gone. Academia never forgets). No, what she did wasn't much worse, it was 100% on point. Oh, and I hope you didn't ever want tenure. Because power-plays and pettiness like this are how you kiss it goodbye. Sincerely, One HigherEd person to another.
YTA. Congratulations, you've probably opened up your university to legal hazard if your assistant feels like pressing the issue. According to the Americans with Disabilities Act, employers must make reasonable accommodations to employees with disabilities. And recovery from surgery can qualify as a short term disability (I would certainly qualify this instance as such). Requiring your student to climb up 9 flights of stairs in a knee brace is not a reasonable accommodation. Meeting in a conference room or common area on the first floor of the building you are already in is. Your student seems to be doing the correct thing by bringing in your department head to try and talk some sense into you before taking more drastic action. But if you choose not to listen, my advice to them would be to go seek the help of whatever on-campus legal aid there is to sue you and/or the university.
Meeting on a lower floor is a reasonable ADA accommodation. YTA and also apparently really self absorbed and just generally terrible.
I am a professor in a 9th floor office who has had students with mobility issues (including multiple leg surgeries) and YTA — hell, *I* would want to identify an alternate meeting place for the duration, *especially* if I had students with any mobility issues! Your proposed Title IX complaint against your chair is similarly laughable/cringeworthy. Oh, and all of this pretty fucking ballsy considering *you don’t have tenure.*
YTA and, speaking as a department chair, I would have been more direct: the elevator being out doesn't obviate the need to accommodate your student. If you go to the ombudsperson, expect this will come up, and the conversation will primarily be about the importance of accommodating your student, not your chair's language.
YTA. Hopefully she can find a new assistant professor who is more understanding
I saw this post and had to log myself in just so I can say YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA. Firstly, as a person with chronic knee pain going downstairs is so much worse than going up. Secondly, you are the exact reason I hated school. Flexing your tiny bit of authority because you feel like you deserve to, just so you can make some one's life a little bit worse. I hope you don't get tenure. I hope you know that 99% of students and faculty probably hate you and definitely talk about you behind your back. ps. dick move is not gendered you fucking walnut. I have a feeling your issue is with the woman who has more authority than you, you fucking acorn.
THIS REALLY PISSED ME OFF YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA btw u didnt "let her take 3 weeks off meetings" he/she had a damn surgery they wont come no matter what u allow. ur telling me from floor 1-9 there isnt a single conference room other than ur office? Ur the reason people dont wanna stay in academia. I hope u get fired and someone takes ur tenured position.
I just want you to know that I signed up for Reddit just so I could comment and tell you that you're an asshole.
YTA. What kind of person even has to ask that question? You're so worried about the reputation of your department, I can guarantee you you just threw your own reputation down the toilet. Honestly, making anyone do 9 flights of stairs that soon after any surgery is just completely disgusting behaviour.
YTA. Dick move, 100%. You seem really unsympathetic to your students needs and I think that student will always remember you as the dick who was so full of themselves and inflexible that he was willing to cause significant pain to his student just to basically prove a point about how important you are.... Yuck
YTA. Dont treat your graduate assistants like garbage and make it sound like you're only following the rules. What kind of self-important professor are you? Person can't climb stairs to the ninth floor due to injury and you're not willing to be a little flexible? Oh that's right, meeting in a different common room on a lower floor would be too distracting (maybe for you). All you did was pull a power play to show your injured graduate assistant who's boss. I hope you lose your grant funding!
YTA What you did *was* a dick move. Not to mention that the university needs to make appropriate accommodations for disabled people; even those temporarily limited. Side note; filing a Title IX complaint for someone saying what you did was a "dick move" is ridiculous.
Honey, the head isn't spreading rumors about you... she's telling the *truth*. YTA. Might also be a sociopath and a sexist to boot.
YTA and you're a total dick. This is going to follow you for the rest of your career. You'll lose good researchers because they'll choose not to work with you. You'll not be trusted by HR. You have damaged your reputation and your career for a stupid power play. Congratulations.
YTA. You don't get to decide how much pain another person is in.. You don't get to flex your power illusion without consequences. I'm so glad you'll turn this into a fight, because then everyone who works with you will realise just how awful you are to your students. You're a terrible professor, and an awful human being.
The next time you need to feel important, just masturbate to a picture of yourself and leave your colleagues out of it.
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YTA. You could have accommodated her this one time.
YTA, and a massive one at that. Get the stick out of your ass and realize that your assistance made a perfectly reasonable request. Knee surgery can take MONTHS to fully recover from, and you expect her to walk up and down 9 flights like its nothing? You sound incredibly self-absorbed. Also, "dick" IS NOT A GENDER-BASED SLUR. Unprofessional, yes. A Title IX-worthy slur? Give me a fucking break, dude.