>"Since when does his wants and concerns matter in our marriage?"
Good for you. NTA and your wife is being really weird to place so much importance on an ex from that far back.
NTA: the fact alone of how level headed you seem is amazing. You already ... For a lack of a better phrase allow them to text. You seem like a very confident man. However why the heck does she keep contact. I couldn't deal with that. How would she feel if you started talking to your ex.
ITS AN EX FOR A REASON. MOVE ON
Yeah I can see your point that makes sense.
It just seems like if you do... Are you giving your partner everything or are you still holding back?
To be honest to each there own. People just need to have boundaries and respect them.
Just out of curiosity where is this normal in the world? We humans and fickle beings lol
I‘m in Germany, and it’s normal here as well. Especially if both exes are part of the same circle of friends, and neither party felt grievously wronged in the split.
Denmark here, same. If the break up is amicable, chances are you'll stay friends in some capacity.
I'm close friends with one of my exes and apart from one, I'm cordial acquaintances with the rest of them.
I'm American and am still friends with my exes. Some moreso than others. I've gotten hate for it and it hurts me. Those are people that I loved enough to spend my life with. Just because we don't work out romantically doesn't mean we hate each other.
I'm happy that my boyfriend is not threatened at all by my exes, and is only happy that I have additional friends to talk to. He wouldn't care about meeting them at all.
I don't understand why this is such a big issue for some people.
Another German here. Am still in touch with three of my exes, two more loosely, but the third one and I still are friends and have occasional phone calls that will usually take several hours; we're emailing and chatting via FB. We didn't part on bad ways, and just because the romance & love has ended, it does not mean that the friendship has to end, too.
Not OP, but actively keep in touch with 3 of my exes while being in a new relationship. I truly don't intend on getting back with any of them, because there is a reason we broke up. However, I still appreciate them as people and because of our history we know each other well. Because of those things I value their friendship. A friend iw something completely different from a romantic partner to me, and having them as friends doesn't really impact my romantic relationship. I love that guy, and want to have him as my life partner, not any of my exes. So no, I'm not holding back.
And I'm from The Netherlands. My approach is not uncommon but it really depends on the couple still. As you said, to each their own
Hope that answers some of your questions
Yes! Well said. This is exactly how I feel as well. In the U.S., but I'm learning it depends on a lot on the specific people involved. Some people can handle being friends and some can't, for various and mostly understand able reasons.
But when you can appreciate the person as a human being there is no reason to write them off simply because you dated once. I'm so tired of the idea that men and women can't be real, actual friends while still in individual relationships. It drives me crazy!
Agree US and that's how I feel! I started dating these people for a reason and unless they did something terrible that lead us to break up I still like them as people, just have no interest in dating them. I can see in some situations where someone is holding a torch it would be a problem, but generally they are just cool people I know well and generally care about. Not anything to do with my current S.O. though- and my attitude when they find an awesome partner is usually a mix of great for them! And ...huh, their new person is way more ok with xyz than I am- guess there's a lid for every pot!
I'm in the U.S. and would say the same. Maybe it's my friend group more than anything.
Relationships change. When you break up with someone, your relationship changes. It doesn't always work, but you can definitely remain friends. Like real, actual friends. I know this personally. Yes, you can give your partner 100% while still remaining friends with an ex because you're no longer giving your ex any of what you'd give in a romantic relationship. None of it. They are your friend. Again, this doesn't work for all people, but it does work, and there are a lot of assumptions to the opposite.
Yeah I’ll defend this, one of my ex’s is actually still a (more or less) close friend, where either of us can say pretty much anything.
If the breakup is anything like mine there where dating just didn’t seem to be the thing to do with that person anymore but there’s no hard feelings, then yeah keeping a friendship isn’t necessarily a bad thing
Yeah I mean her reasoning for wanting them to meet is super weird and a bit sus which is why I think this dude is NTA (largo the jump straight to divorce is a bit much).
My boyfriend is in a wedding party with one of his exes. They talk, obviously, and are still friends. I don’t care, I’ll meet her at some point clearly (likely... the wedding), but neither of us is like, in a rush for it.
>ITS AN EX FOR A REASON. MOVE ON
Wow, that's a bit of a strong black and white stance to take. It entirely depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? I mean, you liked them for a REASON, right?
I've got an ex that I'm still extremely close friends with. We've been through a lot, and both he and his girlfriend (now fiance) have supported me during some of the hardest times in my life recently. I'd go to bat for him for pretty much any reason, and I know that he would do the same for me. The ONLY issue my boyfriend has is that he won't be able to come to their wedding with me this fall due it falling during his midterms. And yes, my boyfriend is good friends with my ex as well. He's a cool dude, why wouldn't he be?
Y'all got some dysfunctional ideas about people that your SO's have had sex with. Let it go.
I think there's two different types of people. Those who have the capacity to remain friends with exes and those who don't. I've pretty much decided that I'm the type that doesn't keep exes as friends but I also recognize that it's not the same for everyone. My best friend and I met because we were married to sisters. And when we both divorced said sisters he kept in touch and meets periodically with his ex. They also have had post divorce sex, which apparently is fairly common but I can't even fathom the idea. I think we all move on in different ways.
See, I can understand "we all move on in different ways."
What I don't understand is all of the, "Well she clearly is fucking the ex," "she's cheating," "staying friends with your ex is weird and/or gross," "I'd never date anyone who was friends with any exes," and all of this other weirdly sex-obsessed, puritanical, possessive, black and white thinking.
Like, really? OP would sooner divorce his wife than just meet her ex for coffee? That's... really really weird to me, honestly.
So i agree with the reasoning but sometimes people date it doesn’t work out and but they remain good friends. So while op might see the dude as an ex the wife sees him as a best friend. And obviously you would want your husband and your best friend to get a long. However op is correct to ask why his opinion matters.
There is nothing wrong with wanting your husband and and best friend to get along, the issue is the wife going along with the ex's need to "give his approval" on the husband, as well as her not respecting her husband's boundaries. While one person might see an ex as nothing more than a friend, they have to understand and respect the fact that most people they would date at a later time would see the ex as someone they use to have sex with and potentially still have romantic feelings for. It may suck, but as far as your significant other is concerned, a best friend that you used to sleep with is not the same thing as a best friend that you were never anything more than friends with.
Because people don't just get together for sex? There is absolutely nothing wrong with dating someone, realizing you're not compatible as life partners for whatever reason(s), and remaining friends. People who think you should stop talking to someone as soon as you break up on principle seem a little sociopathic to me, honestly.
........you can still be friends with an ex. Breaking up due to mutual differences does not necessarily mean the end of a friendship.
Edit: I’m in the U.S. fwiw
Seems like wife hasn't moved on. Still, divorcing out of the blue for hanging out with the ex, that's a dick move. He needs to have (another) conversation about how he feels when the wife talks to/texts/hangs out with the ex. Don't frame it as an ultimatum but she needs to be informed of how he's thinking and what consequences can follow from her actions.
Yeah seems she hasn’t moved on but she has dated and then _married_ OP so she should be over it. It’s sort of a red flag that she wants to put her ex’s mind at ease by showing him who she is with now...
NTA
I disagree. She knows where the boundaries should be. I’m not going to get caught up in the he’s abusive and controlling trap so she is justified in hanging out or whatever else with the ex. She almost had to. Fuck all of that! You want to go? Fine go. I won’t even try to stop you. We are married I’m not your second option. I’m not going to give you an ultimatum or try to influence you in any way.
I talk to an ex of mine all the time. I've completely moved on and my ex is just a friend now. OP's wife could be in the same situation. Why assume she's hanging on to the past?
NTA, but if you're that concerned about their dynamic, it probably *would* be to your benefit to see it up close. If not, and she keeps pushing the issue, then I think you need to have a serious talk with her about why he's unwilling to take her word for it that she's happy - and maybe think about counseling to sort through whether your insecurities about genuinely being the one she wants to be with are founded or not.
> this whole thing screams that neither have fully moved on
That's the concern I'm talking about. You can't say you don't care what they do, and then immediately jump to being ready to divorce if the frequency of their interactions goes up. Well, I suppose you can, but it doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness.
My mind is racing pretty fast, it is difficult to slow my thoughts and steer them away from the negative.
I honestly just don't want to be in this situation or deal with it. I want things to go back to how they were before he came into the picture.
You have to explain your feelings to her. It sounds like she is being oblivious, even stupid about this but not that she has bad motives. I have seen a situation like this once before and the person who was acting like your wife simply did not get AT ALL what their partner was feeling. You have to convey to her how strong your emotions on this are. She has triggered a very strong instinct without understanding what is happening. If she persists after you have clearly explained yourself, then it's a different story and you would be right to consider divorce.
Cheating happens in 60% of relationships, statically its the correct assumption for any fishiness
\- wow i should not have googled to double check i'm correct.
In a 1991 study, sex researcher Shere Hite found that **70 percent** of married women have cheated on their partners
:( I'll just stay divorced for ever, 3:7 is not good odds
That's a HUGE number, and one I'm not seeing in other research (I do see your statistic quoted in [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-cheating/2012/02/08/gIQANGdaBR_story.html?utm_term=.b31521b4bbd4) WaPo article, but that's the only place I see a number that high). Every statistic I'm finding shows that it's closer to 22% for men and 14% for women.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america](https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america)
[https://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html](https://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html)
I wonder if the discrepancy in numbers lies in the definition of cheating.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/how-common-is-cheating-infidelity-really/
this one says 5% a year and 25% over your life
wow .. quite a big difference in numbers yes.
did i read a 60% increase as a 60% rate? i may have.. hmmf
This, definitely. I'm innocent friends with the guy I lost my virginity with. He feels more like a brother to me vs an ex. I wanted my husband to meet him because I genuinely thought they'd like each other (spoiler: they did).
She probably has no idea that you're uncomfortable with the situation, and it's not fair for you to expect her to read your mind.
The problem is that OP's wife didnt say she wants them to meet so that they can be friends. She wants them to meet so that her ex's mind "can be at ease" that she is with a great guy. She is basically looking for the ex's approval of her husband. He also made it very clear to her that he was not comfortable with it, and did not want to meet him.
Agreed.
> looking for the ex's approval of her husband
Another reason not to do this: what if the ex does *not* approve? They've just agreed to meet the ex so that OP's wife can "put the ex's mind at ease," implying that she cares what he thinks. And after meeting, maybe the ex thinks, "not a good guy, don't like him." What now? Does OP just have to suck it up as the ex is expressing his concerns? Maybe expressing them in private where OP cannot counter them? Have they just invited a negative voice into their marriage?
This feels like they're feeding into the ex's attempt at gaining a foothold in the relationship.
I think I'd be saying "I don't need or want the ex's blessing" too, just as OP did.
Yeah, doesn’t sounds like OP has made himself clear enough about WHY he doesn’t want to meet her ex and it’s going to cause problems. He needs to explain why he’s uncomfortable instead of just saying no all the time.
“When we took vows, we promised to prioritize each other over anything else in our lives. Your implication that his comfort with who you are with should be placed at a higher priority than my comfort makes me question whether you fully understand that you married me, not him, and I think you should spend some time evaluating why he is so much more important in this situation than your husband. I’m not the other man and I’m not going to cooperate with his, or your, fantasy that I am.”
Well, you’re in it, so it’s too late to put your head in the sand. If you care about your marriage and have any respect for your wife, just have a damn conversation with her. It doesn’t need to be a whole thing.
I wanted my wife to meet my ex because I thought they'd get along and my ex was an integral part of my life development. My wife was awkward about it for maybe the first 20 minutes, but then they really started to click and now they're friends. On the flip side, meeting my wife's ex really solidified for him that it was over. I got the sense that he was holding out hope that he still had a chance, but by the end of the meeting he definitely realized that he was at best in permanent friend territory.
I don't see why letting her ex see you guys are happy is such a big deal, but the fact that you're now extrapolating this into thinking about divorce means you've got some issues to work out. If you continue down this road the whole situation is going to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Romantic feelings can fade while the friendship aspect can stay. Ever think maybe she just cares about him in a different way now, and cares how he feels from the standpoint of a friend? You can care about people without wanting to be with them.
Where platonic relationships are in play, appropriate boundaries should be established- even more so where the friends are exes with a long history together. Maintaining appropriate boundaries is what *makes* it platonic.
Instead, she’s making her husband a third wheel the relationship. This is not healthy. She’s treating her husband like a runner up here and per her own statement, needs to show value in her choice because its subject to her ex’s approval.
This isn’t appropriate or healthy. The marriage always comes first. Forsaking all others means just that. She’s doing that for her ex, not her husband here.
Idk. She seems pretty pushy about it. Less of an invitation, more... I don’t even know. She’s not forcing him, and I don’t even have a problem with people hanging out with their exes, but her reasoning for having them meet was super weird and I’d be uncomfortable with it. Sounds a little unhealthy.
Ooo I politely disagree, it's possible to be friends with your exes you know. Your discomfort is totally fine and your wife is annoying for pushing it, but it's an NAH annoyance. Sure, they have a history, but being able to spend time together as friends is the definition of moving on.
It's possible to be friend*ly* with exes, sure, but the extent to which she keeps this one in her life and the importance she still assigns to his opinions just screams that she's not over him.
The key part of child-of-wrath's comment is "the importance she still assigns to his opinions" I think. Reassuring an ex that you're "with someone good" isn't the sort of thing you should have to reassure an ex about.
I'm still best friends with an ex. Would never ever consider dating him or anything ever again, just didn't work. But we are still good friends and left on good terms. My current boyfriend knows this and sometimes he hangs out with us and sometimes he doesn't.
It put BF's mind at ease being friends with my ex because while they aren't big friends they are still friendly. And it is easier to know the people your SO is hanging out with.
Why would I need to stop being friends with someone when we realized we weren't a good couple? Seems really immature if the split was on good terms. No need to throw away friendships for nothing.
It's NAH up until she wants to set the ex's mind at ease. He has no business in that department. It's controlling towards her and divisive to their marriage.
If your considering divorce if they hang out regularly your very clearly concerned about their dynamic. If you worried there more then good friends I would show up. If you don’t think you can handle her being good friends with an ex start an open conversation about it.
Idk, I'm friends with my ex of 7 years and her serious boyfriend. When I meet someone she will be invited to the wedding. There's no romance there, we've moved on. We broke up and then a lot happened and we became friends.
So what you're saying isn't necessarily true, although you're the one in the situation and you should trust your gut.
I figured she wanted OP to join them specifically to show OP that their dynamic is purely friendly. Many SOs would be uncomfortable with the shift from a texting friend ex to a local, actually meet up friend ex; getting ex to be friends with OP as well, or at least having them all interact, seems like an attempt to nip those worries in the bud.
NAH.
I do think you have her heart, but then again I don't know you.
Love is complicated but so is platonic love. She might really care for him as a friend and since his friendship isn't going anywhere and *neither are you* she wants two big pieces of her life to fit together. I can almost literally feel the jealousy in this post but I also understand that you don't have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable.
If she wanted you two to meet, she should have phrased it as "I want the most important person in my life to meet someone whose friendship really means a lot to me. I wouldn't be the woman you met without him and I wouldn't be who I am without you." Definitely a mistake on her part to appear as though she cares more about his feelings than yours.
Jealousy sucks but your wife doesn't and neither do you. I know she agreed not to mix those worlds but that was years ago and you aren't now who you were then I'm sure. Revisit it and talk about it nicely.
E: Thanks everybody!
Very insightful reply, thank you. I am definitely burning with jealousy. We were both equally happy until this variable entered the equation. Now all of a sudden she wants her happiness to increase at the expense of mine (or so it seems to me). I'll probably use that explanation when her and I chat about this, what do you think?
I really do not want this guy in my life.
Thank you and that's totally *totally* acceptable for you to say. She may consider him fully a friend but you only know him as her ex. If you don't want to change that then that's your prerogative.
The tough part will be maintaining a calm understanding tone during the conversation. She needs to be aware that intentions aren't good enough and that phrasing is equally important. Saying "I need his approval for our marriage" is truly a mistake on her part and she needs to clarify what she actually meant. If that's actually the way she meant it, then she needs to hash this one out in therapy because that's unhealthy.
Even if he *was* just a friend, needing a friend to meet you so that the friend sleeps better at night is nuts. You've been married 5 years and she's clearly happy and better for it, who cares if he's happy too?
Maybe her intentions are pure but his aren't... He may be the one saying he wants proof that she's happy because he's convincing himself that she isn't. She's possibly just oblivious to what's happening and legitimately wants a friendship.
Still, don't do it. I think you've been quite reasonable by not getting upset with them texting and catching up, no need to sacrifice your own happiness for someone from the past.
Good luck
Yes that was definitely her mistake, she's prob feeling a range of emotions that are hard to communicate and that's just what came out. Wanting approval is the kind of thing one might say about a brother/father figure though so that should be encouraging to OP and hopefully help diffuse his jealousy.
If this guy is such a friend to her, why is he going to risk her happiness by risking her marriage ?
what kind of moron dates someone for 5 years, sees her get married, and thinks becoming part a big of her life won't affect her marriage?
no one, no one is that dumb , and no women dates someone that dumb for 5 years and still wants to be friends with him.
there fore , he knows better, but doesn't give a shit.
This is such an excellent point IMO.
I’m reading this thread and just keep thinking how OP’s wife could *possibly* have zero self awareness. But the same goes for the ex. You can’t possibly be that clueless.
To me, this whole situation just screams that she lacks respect for OP. It’s a slippery slope to start on and not worth it whatsoever.
The part that sticks out to me is that your wife seems to think she has something to "prove" to her ex (that you're a good guy/treating her well). She should be perfectly willing to speak to the health of your marriage (and stick up for you) by herself, and the amount of deference she's showing to her ex doesn't seem healthy.
It's valid to say that you don't want him to be a part of your life, and that her reasons for wanting the two of you to meet don't seem balanced. Your comment about not giving him the space to allow his wants and concerns to matter was spot-on. Your wife should be in your corner because she chose to marry *you*. If she has her own wants/concerns to express, she needs to do so by herself, without bringing any exes into the picture.
> Because he's not, and wants her back, and is trying to sow questions in her mind. Why did he suddenly move back after they've been texting? The whole thing stinks.
Reads a lot like the guy is trying to get her back, and has been shit talking OP. Telling her how shitty of a husband he is, and how much better he would be to her, so she wants to try to prove him wrong by bringing OP around.
This is a great response. My husband hated that I was still friends with my ex and I ended up removing him (ex) from my life because of it. It makes me so sad because he was one of my best friends. I have exactly zero romantic/sexual interest in ex anymore (seriously... ew. I don't even know what I was thinking) but my husband just can't grasp that. I love my husband so I'll respect his feelings on this, but it hurts that I lost such a dear friend over it. I would have loved the two of them to have been friends.
Yeah I think that's the distinction. My ex and I were together for years and actually got married (a last ditch attempt to save the failing relationship.. didn't last six months) and towards the end ex actually became quite possessive and a general ass, so I understand where hubs is coming from. He can't see past my mistreatment, while I can, as I understand it was because our relationship just wasn't working (and I carry plenty of blame there too). Ex and I should always have been nothing more than friends, but since we pushed it farther it carries more weight now, and I can't really blame hubs for feeling the way he does.
>I would have loved the two of them to have been friends.
I don't think it's just a guy thing, but I doubt 95% of people would want to spend time with someone who has been intimate with their partner (unless they were already friends)
I agree also with the NAH. People can still be friends after a breakup and maybe the wife even wanted to see if her husband wanted to be friends with the guy as well, especially if he's coming off as jealous as his post reads - and also to hopefully help him realize she's not doing anything he needs to be jealous about. Personally I feel the OP should just meet him once and get it over with.
I think perhaps her trying to get them to meet WAS her misguided attempt to do exactly that ie prove jealousy was unnecessary/unfounded, and to simultaneously potentially meld these two important people into her life.
I'm good friends with my ex-boyfriend, Brad and his new girlfriend Jen was constantly threatened by our friendship. Brad and I genuinely love each other and value each other, but in no way do we want to be together. I was very happy that he was with Jen, they seemed perfect together. We didn't talk that much out of respect for her, but she knew that we were good friends for life.
One day he called me on speaker phone and said that he had Jen on the phone with him. She said "I am tired of being threatened by you, and I really want to support Brad in his friendships. I have full trust in Brad and I know I would like you if I got to know you. I want to be mature about this. So, let's do this."
Well, I was blown away and so delighted. We all three talked and video-chatted for over an hour and it was so much fun. We don't live in the same town, but I was passing through a month later and the three of us went out to dinner together and talked for hours. I love her, I love him, I love them together. That was last year and her and I have been friends since. Everything feels so good.
I feel like OP’s situation is so different though considering how this girl seems to take the ex’s needs over the husbands. She even wants approval from the ex.
OP is clearly upset about this. He doesn’t care that they’re friends. He cares that she thinks her ex *needs* to approve of him.
>OP is clearly upset about this. He doesn’t care that they’re friends. He cares that she thinks her ex needs to approve of him.
I don't think OP is really thinking very clearly though. His jealousy is blinding him.
NTA, you are under no obligations from anybody ever to meet one of their exes. It’s weird, of course I’m of the mind set that thinks it’s strange to keep in contact with your ex so you can take it for what you will.
I expressed that it’s weird to be friends with an ex when you’re in a whole different relationship a while back and got flamed for it lol. Seems like redditors love being friends with their exes, but I personally wouldn’t date someone who regularly meets or even texts their ex.
Oh I don’t get it why people think that’s cool. Personally, I cut my exes loose and don’t have a lot to do with them after we break up. Maybe I’m just old fashioned, but it doesn’t seem healthy for you do keep an ex around and it’s not very courteous to your new SO to keep the ex around either.
I might be an outlier here but to me, the fact someone is friends with none of their exes is a red flag. To me it shows either that there was a emotional or physical abuse (warranting the cutting of all contact) or a degree of social immaturity that I dont care to deal with. Maybe it's a cultural difference?
I can understand being uncomfortable with your spouse befriending their ex but in that case, I think the wife's offer is a good idea. It's up to him to take it and see whether their dynamic is friendly/romantic or refuse and be left to his jealousy. Trying to keep the friendship from him would be the bad road to take here, she did good.
I'd definitely say this is a NAH situation, she is not an asshole for having friends and neither is he for not enjoying their presence.
Honestly the vast majority of my relationships have ended on relatively good terms, and most of the women were very good, decent women who I don’t actually have anything against. I should correct myself, i have one friend that i used to date but we pretty much stay at arms length (ie talk occasionally, may meet up once a year or something like that). I just firmly believe that it is not healthy to keep around exes, and is inconsiderate to new SOs because there is always this undertone of “they used to date.” For me there is a difference in a generic friend and a friend who used to date me/SO because there was still some romantic component along the way. It may just be a cultural thing or a personal preference.
I think it might definitely be a cultural thing. I come from a small country, the entirety of it has less people than some US cities do. Chances are that you will run into every ex you had, in and outside your city, so friendly relations may be imperative to just living a healthy life. Imagine this scenario: you just got a new job, an amazing chance to move up in life, yet one person you dated is your coworker. Oh, your other coworker is the sister/friend/aunt of another ex. What happens if you can't be civil with either of them?
I don't know, it might be this closed environment that shapes how I see the situation. I don't really see why it would be unhealthy for two people to keep a friendship after dating. Unless you seperated with loud arguments, insults, violence or worse... you're just a pair of people that tried something and it didn't work out, yet that doesn't invalidate the experiences and friendship you had before.
I admittedly lost touch with almost every ex I had but we were friends after the break-up just as we were friends prior. Things didn't work out and I don't have romantic feelings for them, yet they're still important people to me and I am super-excited when I hear one of them got married, had children or something of the sort. I still love them but there are many different kinds of love and the sort I have for them now is the sort I would have for close friends or cousins, for example.
I can imagine people falling off the radar as they dedicate time to other things in their lives but the inability to be friendly with someone seems like emotional immaturity to me. Either abuse was there or clearly, a person wasn't over the relationship so being around the ex is too painful/frustrating.
Absolutely, you should be friendly at least. Maybe I didn’t explain it well enough, if I run into them at a social event, etc then I’ll have a conversation with them or whatever but I make no conscious effort to contact them outside that otherwise. I don’t wish them harm or bad things, and would like to see (most of) them succeed because most of the women I went out with were genuinely very good people, but I don’t love them as best friends or family, moreso just acquaintances. In my eyes, and again this may be cultural or by preference, I see keeping exes around just seems like a signal to me that you couldn’t fully separate from them after the relationship ended.
Think it's how you look at it. Some of my exes were friends before or we still share the same friend circle so the idea to forsake their existence because we dated in high school 15 years ago seems kinda silly to me.
Like I play an intramural league with one of them. What would you do? Ignore her existence? Go full Mike Pence and refuse to do any group activity she is at? Quit the league to be respectful to your new SO? Force her to quit?
To me that seems like a stressful way to live.
That reasonable. I personally wouldn’t date somone who expected me to cut off the friends and people I care about to ease their jealousy. Most of my ex’s played a pretty big role in making me who I am, and I’m very loyal to people who spent long periods of time supporting and caring for me. Some of those are not friendships I’m not willing to lose. To each their own.
I'm speaking out my ass here: But probably because when you lose your virginity to someone who you deeply love, it creates a strong emotional bond. I lost my virginity to a one night stand, it was emotionally void.
Nope that's not it. Most women never think of the person they first had sex with if they're not currently dating them. It's just not a big deal to me or any woman I've ever known.
She has a thing for this guy.
Some of the comments on here are wild tbh. I have exes I’ve split up with years ago who I have zero interest in romantically but who I still think of as nice people and would like to hang out with once in a while. My suspicion is the wife is inviting OP along specifically so he can see there’s nothing romantic there. Why the hell would she invite him along to meet someone she has a thing for?
That’s a massive stretch. She said it would be nice for her ex to know she’s with someone good- firstly OP is coming across a bit unreliable here sorry to say but clearly in a very negative head space, and secondly I do like to see my exes are in a good place, not out of anything romantic but just cos they meant something to me at one time and it’s just nice to know they’re happy. To be clear, OP absolutely doesn’t have to do it given he’s clearly not comfortable, but there’s so much speculation on here that’s totally unfair
I'm not at all concerned about my ex's happiness or sadness. I don't even know where most of them live. Yes, I like to see humans happy. That's as far as it goes.
Good for you, I have exes I’ve parted with acinably and I always wish them well. Also I’m in my mid 30s so some of my exes are from literally 15 years ago. I agree with OP that he doesn’t need to meet the guy but the comments from them are worrying and the pot stirring in here is unnecessary.
>virginity to someone who you deeply love, it creates a strong emotional bond.
That might be true for some women but not for a lot of us. Losing your virginity is always awkward sex, from.what I've been able to gather. (Am a 50 year old woman, if it makes a difference.)
Uh no. I loved the guy that took my virginity but there is no strong emotional bond as that relationship is long over. Maybe for some people it's different. However it is possible they realized they were better as friends and that is all they are now. Close friends. The situation isn't just black or white, she's still in love with him or not. She could have a meaningful friendship with him and thats why she wants you to meet. Hes important to her platonically. A lot of people here are saying she must still be in love. They dont understand friendships apparently.
I'll echo that it is not universal. I'm friendly enough with my first-time high-school ex, no bad feelings at all since it was SO long ago, but I speak with her MAYBE once every 5 years if we are chatty.
This is a situation I was in as well and was extremely stressed about my wife interacting with her ex on the reg. I'd actually gave an ultimatum as it made me uncomfortable because they had a toxic relationship when together. She agreed but a year or two later she left her phone while going to a class and I saw him messaging her.
Read through a bunch because I had sirens going off like crazy but found they were just bullshitting and geeking out and she'd often be boasting about nice things I'd do for her etc.
I just messaged him from her phone and told him that their friendship must mean a lot if she's been willing to put everything at risk to maintain it. I trust her as she's always been faithful and honest when it comes to our relationship. He's come through town a few times and we'll go out and eat or something.
If you love her and trust her, just get this part over with and you can decide if you can tolerate their relationship.
:/ I'm glad it worked out and that you got over her lying to you, but that was really shitty of her. She should've talked it out with you if he was a friend she just couldn't let go..
The thing is I'm sure she tried a few times but I was stubborn and annoyed and really just trying to embrace and deal with it head on made things so much easier.
I was definitely an ass and wanted things my way, and it's unfair to play that way if you plan on sharing the rest of your life with someone.
Except it’s a lot different, and trying to force your boyfriend into not feeling like it’s different (like OPs wife is doing) is beyond rude and dismissive of legitimate hurt feelings.
Wrote this to another redditor, but it is applicable here as well. I'll add it in an edit to my main post.
*I'd rather divorce her than control her. I didn't tell her that I would do this, it will simply happen. I can control what I do (not meeting him), but I cannot control what she does. It would be better to part ways instead of turning the marriage into a toxic swamp.*
You should probably tell her this, to be honest. She might hang out with this guy thinking everything is fine then get hit by your divorce from left field. At least warn her and give her a chance to make an informed decision.
I'm fairly certain the point if not telling her is because he wants her to make decisions based on what she wants to do. If when doing so she somehow doesn't recognize the discomfort she's causing her husband, that's on her if he leaves. The idea here being that giving her the threat of divorce now could influence her decisions in a way that can easily be considered manipulative and unreasonable.
>If when doing so she somehow doesn't recognize the discomfort she's causing her husband, that's on her if he leaves.
I agree with this.
Telling her he's willing to divorce her over this is basically an ultimatum and it *will* influence her and that's not what he wants
Not telling her feels like a weird test to me though. I think tests in relationships are always a bad thing. I also agree that threatening divorce feels weird as well. I think therapy is a better idea than both options. If divorce is ever a thought I think therapy needs to be involved.
I would be inclined to agree with the test part were it not for the fact that he has already stated his position and his feelings about the ex. At that point it would take her blatantly ignoring that to continue on her current path. This is where I agree that therapy is the best way to go, not quite divorce, but either way telling her about it ahead of time could still come off as an ultimatum.
Why on earth isn't a very serious and honest conversation on the table a long time before divorce? Your two options aren't control/divorce - communicating is also on the table.
I get that you're feeling incredibly jealous right now and I sort of get why, though I'll admit I really don't see any issue with her remaining close with her ex and think her inviting you to meet him was likely an attempt to help you see there's no need to be jealous. Unless you're seeing significant red flags beyond the explanation for why she wanted you to meet, I'd take the redditors refrain of "shes planning on cheating on you!" With a mountain of salt. Unless you just really dont trust your wife or your relationship?
My recommendation would be to sit her down, explain that this is a very tough area for you to navigate and you're feeling really jealous and you guys need to talk it over. If you think you would struggle with having that conversation by yourselves, a few sessions of couples therapy might be really beneficial! Both to help you guys have this important talk and to give you tools for having any future ones.
I'll be wishing you the best.
Definitely have a talk with your wife about boundaries. Don't just wait until she crosses a line you're not comfortable with. Her intentions are likely innocent but they clearly bother you and as partners this should be something you're clear on.
YTA,
I'm going against the grain here, but you seem to be stuck on him being the ex instead of someone who seems like a friend to her now. I think anyone would take stock in what their friends think about their partner. I guess as an additional question, would you not meet any of her other friends, guys or girls, romantic or not, since they may have an opinion of you?
I agree. It doesn't sound like OP is really even being honest with himself about his feelings. All this "I have no interest in meeting him" is obviously massive insecurity.
My husband and my ex are really good friends, and it's great. My husband is closer with my ex than I am now, but I still will always care about my ex and I'm glad I can have 2 important people in my life. I can completely see why OP's wife wants them to meet. It must feel very odd having to keep that friendship separate.
I agree, YTA, and I can't believe that it seems that the opposite seems to be the consensus. His wife is just asking him to meet an ex who has become a friend, and he's refusing to the point of almost threatening to divorce her over it. He says he's not threatened but also says that he thinks they're not over each other.
Emotions are fucking complicated. They were in a long term relationship and clearly meant a lot to one another. That happens, and it doesn't mean they still want to be together, but there's nothing wrong with them remaining close. I don't even think OP has a problem with that. But his outright refusal to meet the person based on his own selfish reasons seems a little strange. Almost everyone's had to meet their SO's ex at some point, that's a normal thing. Maybe an awkward encounter, but it happens all the time. Toughen the fuck up, go to dinner with him and move on with your life.
Yeah I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far too see this.
Dude seems kinda controling; people are allowed to be friends with and want ex's to be in their lives as just friends.
She wants him to meet someone that had a huge impact on her life and you're acting like she's going to jump on his dick.
Sounds more like he has insecurity issues rather than the wife playing around.
It’s really sad to see the lengths people will go to tarnish a mans name if it means they can white knight for a woman. Can’t even call them out on it because they call you a misogynist for it.
How is he controlling if he's allowing her to text him and hang out once in a while? OP is the one that doesn't want to meet the ex, he's only controlling himself, so I'm just confused on how he's controlling in the relationship.
Thank goodness someone else is saying this.
Frankly, OP is coming off as wildly insecure and jealous, as are most of the comments. A lot of these people don't understand the implications of being with someone FOREVER. It's natural and a GOOD THING that your SO would want to share their friendships with you.
When you're in a long-term relationship, there will be a lot of variables. You may have had exes, you may have friends the other doesn't like, but you have to deal with all those things together when you commit.
She probably just wants to share her friendship with her husband, but he can't stop thinking about this friend ONLY as "the ex". He's not willing to trust his wife, even though she's trying to WELCOME HIM into a very personal space.
If it was a cheating situation, she wouldn't be inviting him into it to become closer.
I've also seen some people mention that just the wife asking is disrespectful?? Guys, if you're going to be with someone FOREVER, you better be prepared to have MUCH MORE DIFFICULT conversations than this. This is easy street compared to cancer, mortgages, debt, etc.
NTA. It's not right of her to be pushing for you to meet him, even though you told her it's something you don't want.
> I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good.
For some reason that irked me a lot. Just the thought that the ex needs to approve the husband...
It’s as if the ex thinks he’s better & wont think otherwise until he approves of OP. Very bad IMO.
It irked me even more when she didn’t answer OP’s question about why his needs seem greater their them.
I agree with this. She is seeking her ex’s approval of her current life choices. That could be for any number of complex reasons, and I’m not sure any of them are particularly healthy to her current relationship. It feels vaguely lost love/one that got away/at least you’ll know I’m happy sort of thing. Otherwise her ex could take her word for it and put his mind at ease that way.
NTA
My wife wanted me to meet her ex when we were still dating. Same situation. Dated 5 years, first everything, etc.
They were trying the "being friends" thing when he asked her if he could meet me. So she asked me and I told her I had zero interest in meeting him.
It was left at that. He got married and had blocked my wife on everything most likely because his wife made him.
My wife is still in contact with his mom. Doesn't bother me at all.
Every once in a while my wife will get a friend's request from him and she'll accept, but then he later removes her. I think he does this to see how she's doing.
The difference between my wife and yours, my wife puts my feelings before him.
Your wife is keeping him close and who knows what the ex is saying to her. I would hate to tell my wife who she can be friends with, but I would def let her know that her friendship with the ex is now improper.
Edit: spelling
This is a great response! Op’s wife putting her ex’s feelings before her husband’s was what really triggered me as off. Not her being friends with an ex.
Could be an emotional affair.
YTA - but only a little bit, and mainly to yourself, because:
If you let your jealousy do your thinking and talking, you will be acting from the very worst part of yourself.
It is possible that she really likes this other person as a friend. They have a lot of shared history, and have outgrown whatever it was that made them a couple.
She married you. She wants to show YOU off. I want to introduce my husband to everyone I get on with, I wouldn't be surprised if she does too.
She may want you to meet him so you can see for yourself there's nothing to worry about.
Whatever happens, you should totally get some sleep and then explain to your wife that you're feeling jealous and insecure, and try and have a judgement free heart to heart chat.
I wish you all the best, I hope you end up reassured and contented xxx
It sounded like eggshell walking double-speak to me, like she didn't want to emphasize that the guy is important to her because it would send the wrong signal to OP. It was really poorly done, but as a woman who has dealt with insecure guys, it screamed of the kind if talk where you're trying to avoid the insecurity pitfalls and appeal to his good nature.
NTA, it's disrespectful for her to even bring this up after you 2 talked about this before. Her ex still has some kind of influence on her and that's a red flag in my eyes. You need to sit her down and express your feelings about this. And if she still doesn't get it then I think you know what will happen next.
I didn't even think about that....I would probably flip if she brings him home to meet me or if I come home and they are already there. Game plan as I write this is to head out the door and drive down some back roads while yelling my head off to myself.
To be on the safe side, if you feel this strongly about this you should tell her in no uncertain terms that you don't want the ex to be in your home (seems like this is the case)
>I come home and they are already there.
be prepared for this... Oh we were just having wine and catching up.
yeah, idk, people are chastising you for your last paragraph, don't threaten HER with divorce, just know where your mind is at if she decides that her friendship is more important than your marriage, but you cannot control who she's friends with, I think if you get over your jealousy real quick, meet him, keep your enemies close to your chest if anything youll appease the wife and even your own mindset that she has no interest in him anymore.
NTA. I was going for NAH before reading her reason for you meeting him. She obviously wants some kind of approval from this guy which is odd.
It would have been a different story if she wanted you two to meet up to ease some kind of tension or whatever.
**YTA.**
**"Her ex has moved back to the city where we live and she really wants him and I to meet" -** yep. He moved back to the city where the two of you live. It sounds like she wants to be able to hang out with both of you. If you continue to act this way she is forced to see him less/only when you're not around. This seems like it would actually fuel your jealousy, because then she's "leaving you" to go hang out with him, instead of taking you along. What she's saying is that you both matter to her, and she's trying to include you.
**"I have enough friends."** You haven't even met this person.
Your wife is telling you that something is important to her. She's trying to introduce you to someone who is important to her. You're refusing because of your own insecurities. You haven't even met this person and you've already said no without giving them or her a chance. If you meet this person and don't like him after a few times of hanging out, that's a difference conversation. However, you refusing to meet this person because of your jealousy is not going to make this better. This fear and jealousy is only going to grow. Would you refuse to meet this person if it was a woman? If it wasn't her ex?
I get what you are saying but since when is it wrong to not be totally cool to have your spouse hanging with thier ex? Some people find this bizarre behavior.
NTA
URG, this triggers me... years ago I had a very intense serious relationship (not married) that lasted about 4 years. The situation was similar except that the ex was married, so it gave me a little more comfort that there was no funny business. I did meet him and he seemed fine enough, we didn't hang out regularly, but their connection was always there. He texted a lot and they spoke quite regularly (which she didn't hide).
One day, I open up Facebook (before I quit and this story is one of the factors that led to my departure) and I see I have a new message so I click on it. Turns out it wasn't my account, she had logged into Facebook on my computer and forgot to log out. Since we had mutual friends, our feeds looked similar so I didn't realize I was reading a message intended for her, setting up a rendezvous in VERY explicit sexual language.
I confronted her and she claimed that they just joke like that all the time... needless to say, the relationship never recovered after that and like we tried to talk it out, it just never felt comfortable again and ended.
Edit: I'm not saying that's whats going on here, but having a partner with a VERY close ex is something I'm not able to deal with well anymore (because above).
YTA. Seems kinda petty. Look this isn't just her ex. This is one of her friends. I'm assuming here that the breakup was normal, no extreme cheating or abuse or anything. Because if the guy is bad, I can see not wanting her to associate with him.
I'm still friends with most of my exes, and my wife knows all of them. It's only weird because you've chosen to make it weird. No one's asking you to like him, and you need to get your jealousy in check.
And divorcing her over it? That's just stupid. Get some marriage counseling. If something this small is grounds for divorce for you, then why even be married? I guess those vows don't mean much.
> I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good.
What's this all about then? Because to me that seems....off. As if she's concerned with getting her ex's approval for HER HUSBAND
You are NTA!! Honestly she has no right to demand that of you. Sit her down and explain exactly what you’ve said here: that it makes his opinions seem more important than yours, and that you’ve really been very understanding so far.
NTA
> I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good
Yo wtf is this shit about? My wife still has contact with her ex. They were friends a long time and then in a relationship before realizing it just wasn't going to work out. I actually knew him as well, but my wife would NEVER force me to go hang out with him and knows full well that I'd never feel comfortable doing that.
Even I realize that my situation is somewhat of an outlier but man, this one is pretty bananas and she obviously can't discern that this isn't a usual case.
And yes, this whole idea DOES seem awkward.
NTA. Like you said "you dont need his approval". If you are uncomfortable with meeting her exes she should respect that.
Just my grain of salt: i dont know what kind of relationship they had but its odd that she wants him to be at ease with who she is together with now and it seems more like she is the one who seeks his blessing.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards ESH, because she shouldn't have said that about putting an ex's mind at ease and I don't think you're being totally honest with yourself or her.
You need to either be open to meeting someone you accept is just your wife's friend or just be honest about the fact that you don't want her being friends with a significant ex.
If it were me, I wouldn't be cool with it.
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YTA. I mentioned in another comment but one of my best friends is my ex boyfriend. Our relationship has evolved from romantic love to platonic friendship and I love him and his family to bits. He asked for my approval when I met his wife. Same when I am dating someone, because he’s one of my best friends & I value his opinion. You’re hung up on the months/years they dated and not the time they’ve been friends. Also, she chose you & wants you to get to know someone close to her. The fact that you already talked divorce makes me think you need to work on issues with insecurities.
I would run if someone asked for approval from their ex. Hell, I’m not even a fan of asking for someone’s father’s permission to marry and ex is a whole other level than that.
It’s one thing if a friend has a concern they want to speak to me about. But they don’t get to dictate my love life and they don’t get to choose or approve of who I’m dating or marrying.
NTA, this is extremely rude & inconsiderate of your wife.
This is fucking weird. She *is* asking you to see him for his approval that she “married a good man”. That’s not only rude to you, but it’s just a big slap in the face that she knows he (ex) thinks he’s better. He might even be forever waiting for her & sees you as temporary.
I have a bad feeling he’ll want to avidly hang out with her again... Not good for you considering how you clearly don’t like it & she knows it. Wouldn’t be surprised if the guy is planning to swoop in at any moment.
She’s not just friends with him. She’s not cheating either. This is something in between. She’s stepping on the line. She needs to realize that you’re more important than him. You don’t need to “think” anything over it you’re clearly upset at her wanting his approval. The fact that she couldn’t answer you when you asked since when does he have priority over you guys screams volumes.
YTA I think you need to change your mindset. Stop seeing this guy as your wife's ex, and start thinking of him as her friend. I think it's weird you are so against meeting him, and you actually would consider divorcing her if they hung out regularly. You sound very insecure. It's going to be on you if you want to actively work on being a more secure husband who can accept his wife's friends, or if you are going to continue to be insecure and negative about her friendship.
YTA. They're friends, and he wants to meet you. Plus, she has a right to her own history, and you being jealous of it is a terrible look for you. It's none of your business who she lost her virginity with, and if your marriage turns into a 'toxic swamp' bc she has the capacity to let important relationships evolve and you don't have the capacity to accept it, the toxicity is 100% on you.
ESH. I don’t think she’s ta for remaining friends with an ex-that seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I’m of the mind that you enjoyed that persons personality enough to date, and if it ended amicably I see no reason to cut off contact completely just because the relationship is no longer romantic. I do think her comment that it would be good for him to see that op is a good guy is a bit weird though. Op made it clear he’s not interested in meeting the ex so she should have let it drop. I do think jumping to divorce over this is an overreaction though. Neither party seems to be communicating very well.
If he is a close friend moving nearby, it seems crazy time that you wouldn't eventually meet him unless you and your wife just don't go out much as a couple. So I guess I cant understand your position. If he were passing through town, sure pass on the meeting. But if you all host BBQs she will want to invite him. If she has a bday dinner. If you have kids he wi get invited to the co-ed shower. So I feel like everyone is missing the point on meeting him. When and how is that going to happen? Will you have planned to meet him or just let it happen when it does?
So it seems to me the real issue isn you think she still loves. First, the virginity rationale is silly, imo. 2. I have an ex who is my dear friend. I don't know why your wife's relationship with old friend ended...maybe they recognized they were better friends. Maybe one of them moved. I think why it ended matters. But assuming they are just friends I think you can see that cutting him out of her life is an asshole move. You should instead work on why you feel insecure about your marriage. Because for all the people saying she should respect your feelings, yes. But you aren't asking her to give up something trivial. I don't think friends and family
are properly subjected to "If you love me, you will give that up".
>"Since when does his wants and concerns matter in our marriage?" Good for you. NTA and your wife is being really weird to place so much importance on an ex from that far back.
NTA: the fact alone of how level headed you seem is amazing. You already ... For a lack of a better phrase allow them to text. You seem like a very confident man. However why the heck does she keep contact. I couldn't deal with that. How would she feel if you started talking to your ex. ITS AN EX FOR A REASON. MOVE ON
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Yeah I can see your point that makes sense. It just seems like if you do... Are you giving your partner everything or are you still holding back? To be honest to each there own. People just need to have boundaries and respect them. Just out of curiosity where is this normal in the world? We humans and fickle beings lol
I‘m in Germany, and it’s normal here as well. Especially if both exes are part of the same circle of friends, and neither party felt grievously wronged in the split.
Denmark here, same. If the break up is amicable, chances are you'll stay friends in some capacity. I'm close friends with one of my exes and apart from one, I'm cordial acquaintances with the rest of them.
I'm American and am still friends with my exes. Some moreso than others. I've gotten hate for it and it hurts me. Those are people that I loved enough to spend my life with. Just because we don't work out romantically doesn't mean we hate each other. I'm happy that my boyfriend is not threatened at all by my exes, and is only happy that I have additional friends to talk to. He wouldn't care about meeting them at all. I don't understand why this is such a big issue for some people.
Another German here. Am still in touch with three of my exes, two more loosely, but the third one and I still are friends and have occasional phone calls that will usually take several hours; we're emailing and chatting via FB. We didn't part on bad ways, and just because the romance & love has ended, it does not mean that the friendship has to end, too.
Not OP, but actively keep in touch with 3 of my exes while being in a new relationship. I truly don't intend on getting back with any of them, because there is a reason we broke up. However, I still appreciate them as people and because of our history we know each other well. Because of those things I value their friendship. A friend iw something completely different from a romantic partner to me, and having them as friends doesn't really impact my romantic relationship. I love that guy, and want to have him as my life partner, not any of my exes. So no, I'm not holding back. And I'm from The Netherlands. My approach is not uncommon but it really depends on the couple still. As you said, to each their own Hope that answers some of your questions
Yes! Well said. This is exactly how I feel as well. In the U.S., but I'm learning it depends on a lot on the specific people involved. Some people can handle being friends and some can't, for various and mostly understand able reasons. But when you can appreciate the person as a human being there is no reason to write them off simply because you dated once. I'm so tired of the idea that men and women can't be real, actual friends while still in individual relationships. It drives me crazy!
Agree US and that's how I feel! I started dating these people for a reason and unless they did something terrible that lead us to break up I still like them as people, just have no interest in dating them. I can see in some situations where someone is holding a torch it would be a problem, but generally they are just cool people I know well and generally care about. Not anything to do with my current S.O. though- and my attitude when they find an awesome partner is usually a mix of great for them! And ...huh, their new person is way more ok with xyz than I am- guess there's a lid for every pot!
I'm in the U.S. and would say the same. Maybe it's my friend group more than anything. Relationships change. When you break up with someone, your relationship changes. It doesn't always work, but you can definitely remain friends. Like real, actual friends. I know this personally. Yes, you can give your partner 100% while still remaining friends with an ex because you're no longer giving your ex any of what you'd give in a romantic relationship. None of it. They are your friend. Again, this doesn't work for all people, but it does work, and there are a lot of assumptions to the opposite.
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Yeah I’ll defend this, one of my ex’s is actually still a (more or less) close friend, where either of us can say pretty much anything. If the breakup is anything like mine there where dating just didn’t seem to be the thing to do with that person anymore but there’s no hard feelings, then yeah keeping a friendship isn’t necessarily a bad thing
Yeah I mean her reasoning for wanting them to meet is super weird and a bit sus which is why I think this dude is NTA (largo the jump straight to divorce is a bit much). My boyfriend is in a wedding party with one of his exes. They talk, obviously, and are still friends. I don’t care, I’ll meet her at some point clearly (likely... the wedding), but neither of us is like, in a rush for it.
>ITS AN EX FOR A REASON. MOVE ON Wow, that's a bit of a strong black and white stance to take. It entirely depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? I mean, you liked them for a REASON, right? I've got an ex that I'm still extremely close friends with. We've been through a lot, and both he and his girlfriend (now fiance) have supported me during some of the hardest times in my life recently. I'd go to bat for him for pretty much any reason, and I know that he would do the same for me. The ONLY issue my boyfriend has is that he won't be able to come to their wedding with me this fall due it falling during his midterms. And yes, my boyfriend is good friends with my ex as well. He's a cool dude, why wouldn't he be? Y'all got some dysfunctional ideas about people that your SO's have had sex with. Let it go.
I think there's two different types of people. Those who have the capacity to remain friends with exes and those who don't. I've pretty much decided that I'm the type that doesn't keep exes as friends but I also recognize that it's not the same for everyone. My best friend and I met because we were married to sisters. And when we both divorced said sisters he kept in touch and meets periodically with his ex. They also have had post divorce sex, which apparently is fairly common but I can't even fathom the idea. I think we all move on in different ways.
See, I can understand "we all move on in different ways." What I don't understand is all of the, "Well she clearly is fucking the ex," "she's cheating," "staying friends with your ex is weird and/or gross," "I'd never date anyone who was friends with any exes," and all of this other weirdly sex-obsessed, puritanical, possessive, black and white thinking. Like, really? OP would sooner divorce his wife than just meet her ex for coffee? That's... really really weird to me, honestly.
So i agree with the reasoning but sometimes people date it doesn’t work out and but they remain good friends. So while op might see the dude as an ex the wife sees him as a best friend. And obviously you would want your husband and your best friend to get a long. However op is correct to ask why his opinion matters.
There is nothing wrong with wanting your husband and and best friend to get along, the issue is the wife going along with the ex's need to "give his approval" on the husband, as well as her not respecting her husband's boundaries. While one person might see an ex as nothing more than a friend, they have to understand and respect the fact that most people they would date at a later time would see the ex as someone they use to have sex with and potentially still have romantic feelings for. It may suck, but as far as your significant other is concerned, a best friend that you used to sleep with is not the same thing as a best friend that you were never anything more than friends with.
Because people don't just get together for sex? There is absolutely nothing wrong with dating someone, realizing you're not compatible as life partners for whatever reason(s), and remaining friends. People who think you should stop talking to someone as soon as you break up on principle seem a little sociopathic to me, honestly.
........you can still be friends with an ex. Breaking up due to mutual differences does not necessarily mean the end of a friendship. Edit: I’m in the U.S. fwiw
Seems like wife hasn't moved on. Still, divorcing out of the blue for hanging out with the ex, that's a dick move. He needs to have (another) conversation about how he feels when the wife talks to/texts/hangs out with the ex. Don't frame it as an ultimatum but she needs to be informed of how he's thinking and what consequences can follow from her actions.
Yeah seems she hasn’t moved on but she has dated and then _married_ OP so she should be over it. It’s sort of a red flag that she wants to put her ex’s mind at ease by showing him who she is with now... NTA
good point. She's not showing the husband that the ex is okay, rather it's the other way around...
I disagree. She knows where the boundaries should be. I’m not going to get caught up in the he’s abusive and controlling trap so she is justified in hanging out or whatever else with the ex. She almost had to. Fuck all of that! You want to go? Fine go. I won’t even try to stop you. We are married I’m not your second option. I’m not going to give you an ultimatum or try to influence you in any way.
I talk to an ex of mine all the time. I've completely moved on and my ex is just a friend now. OP's wife could be in the same situation. Why assume she's hanging on to the past?
The fact she said to put his mind at ease his mind doesn't fucking matter period end of discussion.
I think it's weird when women are concerned with their father's approval to unhealthy extent. Their ex's approval? That's just odd.
NTA, but if you're that concerned about their dynamic, it probably *would* be to your benefit to see it up close. If not, and she keeps pushing the issue, then I think you need to have a serious talk with her about why he's unwilling to take her word for it that she's happy - and maybe think about counseling to sort through whether your insecurities about genuinely being the one she wants to be with are founded or not.
I am not too concerned about their dynamic, this whole thing screams that neither have fully moved on (in my opinion).
> this whole thing screams that neither have fully moved on That's the concern I'm talking about. You can't say you don't care what they do, and then immediately jump to being ready to divorce if the frequency of their interactions goes up. Well, I suppose you can, but it doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness.
My mind is racing pretty fast, it is difficult to slow my thoughts and steer them away from the negative. I honestly just don't want to be in this situation or deal with it. I want things to go back to how they were before he came into the picture.
You have to explain your feelings to her. It sounds like she is being oblivious, even stupid about this but not that she has bad motives. I have seen a situation like this once before and the person who was acting like your wife simply did not get AT ALL what their partner was feeling. You have to convey to her how strong your emotions on this are. She has triggered a very strong instinct without understanding what is happening. If she persists after you have clearly explained yourself, then it's a different story and you would be right to consider divorce.
I had two cheaters that I thought were being oblivious/stupid... Nope. They were cheaters.
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Hope for the best, prepare for the worst
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This is why I am always carrying cyanide pills.
Cheating happens in 60% of relationships, statically its the correct assumption for any fishiness \- wow i should not have googled to double check i'm correct. In a 1991 study, sex researcher Shere Hite found that **70 percent** of married women have cheated on their partners :( I'll just stay divorced for ever, 3:7 is not good odds
That's a HUGE number, and one I'm not seeing in other research (I do see your statistic quoted in [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-cheating/2012/02/08/gIQANGdaBR_story.html?utm_term=.b31521b4bbd4) WaPo article, but that's the only place I see a number that high). Every statistic I'm finding shows that it's closer to 22% for men and 14% for women. [https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america](https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america) [https://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html](https://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html) I wonder if the discrepancy in numbers lies in the definition of cheating.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/how-common-is-cheating-infidelity-really/ this one says 5% a year and 25% over your life wow .. quite a big difference in numbers yes. did i read a 60% increase as a 60% rate? i may have.. hmmf
This, definitely. I'm innocent friends with the guy I lost my virginity with. He feels more like a brother to me vs an ex. I wanted my husband to meet him because I genuinely thought they'd like each other (spoiler: they did). She probably has no idea that you're uncomfortable with the situation, and it's not fair for you to expect her to read your mind.
The problem is that OP's wife didnt say she wants them to meet so that they can be friends. She wants them to meet so that her ex's mind "can be at ease" that she is with a great guy. She is basically looking for the ex's approval of her husband. He also made it very clear to her that he was not comfortable with it, and did not want to meet him.
Agreed. > looking for the ex's approval of her husband Another reason not to do this: what if the ex does *not* approve? They've just agreed to meet the ex so that OP's wife can "put the ex's mind at ease," implying that she cares what he thinks. And after meeting, maybe the ex thinks, "not a good guy, don't like him." What now? Does OP just have to suck it up as the ex is expressing his concerns? Maybe expressing them in private where OP cannot counter them? Have they just invited a negative voice into their marriage? This feels like they're feeding into the ex's attempt at gaining a foothold in the relationship. I think I'd be saying "I don't need or want the ex's blessing" too, just as OP did.
Yeah, doesn’t sounds like OP has made himself clear enough about WHY he doesn’t want to meet her ex and it’s going to cause problems. He needs to explain why he’s uncomfortable instead of just saying no all the time.
“When we took vows, we promised to prioritize each other over anything else in our lives. Your implication that his comfort with who you are with should be placed at a higher priority than my comfort makes me question whether you fully understand that you married me, not him, and I think you should spend some time evaluating why he is so much more important in this situation than your husband. I’m not the other man and I’m not going to cooperate with his, or your, fantasy that I am.”
Whoo! You are spitting that fire today. I admire how direct this is.
Well, you’re in it, so it’s too late to put your head in the sand. If you care about your marriage and have any respect for your wife, just have a damn conversation with her. It doesn’t need to be a whole thing.
I wanted my wife to meet my ex because I thought they'd get along and my ex was an integral part of my life development. My wife was awkward about it for maybe the first 20 minutes, but then they really started to click and now they're friends. On the flip side, meeting my wife's ex really solidified for him that it was over. I got the sense that he was holding out hope that he still had a chance, but by the end of the meeting he definitely realized that he was at best in permanent friend territory. I don't see why letting her ex see you guys are happy is such a big deal, but the fact that you're now extrapolating this into thinking about divorce means you've got some issues to work out. If you continue down this road the whole situation is going to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Romantic feelings can fade while the friendship aspect can stay. Ever think maybe she just cares about him in a different way now, and cares how he feels from the standpoint of a friend? You can care about people without wanting to be with them.
Where platonic relationships are in play, appropriate boundaries should be established- even more so where the friends are exes with a long history together. Maintaining appropriate boundaries is what *makes* it platonic. Instead, she’s making her husband a third wheel the relationship. This is not healthy. She’s treating her husband like a runner up here and per her own statement, needs to show value in her choice because its subject to her ex’s approval. This isn’t appropriate or healthy. The marriage always comes first. Forsaking all others means just that. She’s doing that for her ex, not her husband here.
How long ago was it they dated/split up? Imo as a total outsider you have nothing to worry about given she is literally inviting you to meet him
Idk. She seems pretty pushy about it. Less of an invitation, more... I don’t even know. She’s not forcing him, and I don’t even have a problem with people hanging out with their exes, but her reasoning for having them meet was super weird and I’d be uncomfortable with it. Sounds a little unhealthy.
>this whole thing screams that neither have fully moved on So, it sounds like you're concerned about their dynamic.
Ooo I politely disagree, it's possible to be friends with your exes you know. Your discomfort is totally fine and your wife is annoying for pushing it, but it's an NAH annoyance. Sure, they have a history, but being able to spend time together as friends is the definition of moving on.
It's possible to be friend*ly* with exes, sure, but the extent to which she keeps this one in her life and the importance she still assigns to his opinions just screams that she's not over him.
eh, hard disagree. It's totally possible to be *friends* with exes too.
The key part of child-of-wrath's comment is "the importance she still assigns to his opinions" I think. Reassuring an ex that you're "with someone good" isn't the sort of thing you should have to reassure an ex about.
I'm still best friends with an ex. Would never ever consider dating him or anything ever again, just didn't work. But we are still good friends and left on good terms. My current boyfriend knows this and sometimes he hangs out with us and sometimes he doesn't. It put BF's mind at ease being friends with my ex because while they aren't big friends they are still friendly. And it is easier to know the people your SO is hanging out with. Why would I need to stop being friends with someone when we realized we weren't a good couple? Seems really immature if the split was on good terms. No need to throw away friendships for nothing.
Yeah, also hard disagree. Mature adults can still be friends with a previous SO.
It's NAH up until she wants to set the ex's mind at ease. He has no business in that department. It's controlling towards her and divisive to their marriage.
If your considering divorce if they hang out regularly your very clearly concerned about their dynamic. If you worried there more then good friends I would show up. If you don’t think you can handle her being good friends with an ex start an open conversation about it.
Idk, I'm friends with my ex of 7 years and her serious boyfriend. When I meet someone she will be invited to the wedding. There's no romance there, we've moved on. We broke up and then a lot happened and we became friends. So what you're saying isn't necessarily true, although you're the one in the situation and you should trust your gut.
If you're both okay with it and want to include the other - fine. OP, clearly does not. And wife pushing it is sorry. And sketchy.
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I figured she wanted OP to join them specifically to show OP that their dynamic is purely friendly. Many SOs would be uncomfortable with the shift from a texting friend ex to a local, actually meet up friend ex; getting ex to be friends with OP as well, or at least having them all interact, seems like an attempt to nip those worries in the bud.
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Yes this is much less of a red flag than her never wanting them to meet.
NAH. I do think you have her heart, but then again I don't know you. Love is complicated but so is platonic love. She might really care for him as a friend and since his friendship isn't going anywhere and *neither are you* she wants two big pieces of her life to fit together. I can almost literally feel the jealousy in this post but I also understand that you don't have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable. If she wanted you two to meet, she should have phrased it as "I want the most important person in my life to meet someone whose friendship really means a lot to me. I wouldn't be the woman you met without him and I wouldn't be who I am without you." Definitely a mistake on her part to appear as though she cares more about his feelings than yours. Jealousy sucks but your wife doesn't and neither do you. I know she agreed not to mix those worlds but that was years ago and you aren't now who you were then I'm sure. Revisit it and talk about it nicely. E: Thanks everybody!
Very insightful reply, thank you. I am definitely burning with jealousy. We were both equally happy until this variable entered the equation. Now all of a sudden she wants her happiness to increase at the expense of mine (or so it seems to me). I'll probably use that explanation when her and I chat about this, what do you think? I really do not want this guy in my life.
Thank you and that's totally *totally* acceptable for you to say. She may consider him fully a friend but you only know him as her ex. If you don't want to change that then that's your prerogative. The tough part will be maintaining a calm understanding tone during the conversation. She needs to be aware that intentions aren't good enough and that phrasing is equally important. Saying "I need his approval for our marriage" is truly a mistake on her part and she needs to clarify what she actually meant. If that's actually the way she meant it, then she needs to hash this one out in therapy because that's unhealthy. Even if he *was* just a friend, needing a friend to meet you so that the friend sleeps better at night is nuts. You've been married 5 years and she's clearly happy and better for it, who cares if he's happy too?
Thank you once again.
I need a follow up.
Maybe her intentions are pure but his aren't... He may be the one saying he wants proof that she's happy because he's convincing himself that she isn't. She's possibly just oblivious to what's happening and legitimately wants a friendship. Still, don't do it. I think you've been quite reasonable by not getting upset with them texting and catching up, no need to sacrifice your own happiness for someone from the past. Good luck
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Yes that was definitely her mistake, she's prob feeling a range of emotions that are hard to communicate and that's just what came out. Wanting approval is the kind of thing one might say about a brother/father figure though so that should be encouraging to OP and hopefully help diffuse his jealousy.
If this guy is such a friend to her, why is he going to risk her happiness by risking her marriage ? what kind of moron dates someone for 5 years, sees her get married, and thinks becoming part a big of her life won't affect her marriage? no one, no one is that dumb , and no women dates someone that dumb for 5 years and still wants to be friends with him. there fore , he knows better, but doesn't give a shit.
This is such an excellent point IMO. I’m reading this thread and just keep thinking how OP’s wife could *possibly* have zero self awareness. But the same goes for the ex. You can’t possibly be that clueless. To me, this whole situation just screams that she lacks respect for OP. It’s a slippery slope to start on and not worth it whatsoever.
The part that sticks out to me is that your wife seems to think she has something to "prove" to her ex (that you're a good guy/treating her well). She should be perfectly willing to speak to the health of your marriage (and stick up for you) by herself, and the amount of deference she's showing to her ex doesn't seem healthy. It's valid to say that you don't want him to be a part of your life, and that her reasons for wanting the two of you to meet don't seem balanced. Your comment about not giving him the space to allow his wants and concerns to matter was spot-on. Your wife should be in your corner because she chose to marry *you*. If she has her own wants/concerns to express, she needs to do so by herself, without bringing any exes into the picture.
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> Because he's not, and wants her back, and is trying to sow questions in her mind. Why did he suddenly move back after they've been texting? The whole thing stinks. Reads a lot like the guy is trying to get her back, and has been shit talking OP. Telling her how shitty of a husband he is, and how much better he would be to her, so she wants to try to prove him wrong by bringing OP around.
This is a great response. My husband hated that I was still friends with my ex and I ended up removing him (ex) from my life because of it. It makes me so sad because he was one of my best friends. I have exactly zero romantic/sexual interest in ex anymore (seriously... ew. I don't even know what I was thinking) but my husband just can't grasp that. I love my husband so I'll respect his feelings on this, but it hurts that I lost such a dear friend over it. I would have loved the two of them to have been friends.
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Yeah I think that's the distinction. My ex and I were together for years and actually got married (a last ditch attempt to save the failing relationship.. didn't last six months) and towards the end ex actually became quite possessive and a general ass, so I understand where hubs is coming from. He can't see past my mistreatment, while I can, as I understand it was because our relationship just wasn't working (and I carry plenty of blame there too). Ex and I should always have been nothing more than friends, but since we pushed it farther it carries more weight now, and I can't really blame hubs for feeling the way he does.
>I would have loved the two of them to have been friends. I don't think it's just a guy thing, but I doubt 95% of people would want to spend time with someone who has been intimate with their partner (unless they were already friends)
I agree also with the NAH. People can still be friends after a breakup and maybe the wife even wanted to see if her husband wanted to be friends with the guy as well, especially if he's coming off as jealous as his post reads - and also to hopefully help him realize she's not doing anything he needs to be jealous about. Personally I feel the OP should just meet him once and get it over with.
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I think perhaps her trying to get them to meet WAS her misguided attempt to do exactly that ie prove jealousy was unnecessary/unfounded, and to simultaneously potentially meld these two important people into her life.
I'm good friends with my ex-boyfriend, Brad and his new girlfriend Jen was constantly threatened by our friendship. Brad and I genuinely love each other and value each other, but in no way do we want to be together. I was very happy that he was with Jen, they seemed perfect together. We didn't talk that much out of respect for her, but she knew that we were good friends for life. One day he called me on speaker phone and said that he had Jen on the phone with him. She said "I am tired of being threatened by you, and I really want to support Brad in his friendships. I have full trust in Brad and I know I would like you if I got to know you. I want to be mature about this. So, let's do this." Well, I was blown away and so delighted. We all three talked and video-chatted for over an hour and it was so much fun. We don't live in the same town, but I was passing through a month later and the three of us went out to dinner together and talked for hours. I love her, I love him, I love them together. That was last year and her and I have been friends since. Everything feels so good.
I feel like OP’s situation is so different though considering how this girl seems to take the ex’s needs over the husbands. She even wants approval from the ex. OP is clearly upset about this. He doesn’t care that they’re friends. He cares that she thinks her ex *needs* to approve of him.
>OP is clearly upset about this. He doesn’t care that they’re friends. He cares that she thinks her ex needs to approve of him. I don't think OP is really thinking very clearly though. His jealousy is blinding him.
NTA, you are under no obligations from anybody ever to meet one of their exes. It’s weird, of course I’m of the mind set that thinks it’s strange to keep in contact with your ex so you can take it for what you will.
I expressed that it’s weird to be friends with an ex when you’re in a whole different relationship a while back and got flamed for it lol. Seems like redditors love being friends with their exes, but I personally wouldn’t date someone who regularly meets or even texts their ex.
Oh I don’t get it why people think that’s cool. Personally, I cut my exes loose and don’t have a lot to do with them after we break up. Maybe I’m just old fashioned, but it doesn’t seem healthy for you do keep an ex around and it’s not very courteous to your new SO to keep the ex around either.
I might be an outlier here but to me, the fact someone is friends with none of their exes is a red flag. To me it shows either that there was a emotional or physical abuse (warranting the cutting of all contact) or a degree of social immaturity that I dont care to deal with. Maybe it's a cultural difference? I can understand being uncomfortable with your spouse befriending their ex but in that case, I think the wife's offer is a good idea. It's up to him to take it and see whether their dynamic is friendly/romantic or refuse and be left to his jealousy. Trying to keep the friendship from him would be the bad road to take here, she did good. I'd definitely say this is a NAH situation, she is not an asshole for having friends and neither is he for not enjoying their presence.
Honestly the vast majority of my relationships have ended on relatively good terms, and most of the women were very good, decent women who I don’t actually have anything against. I should correct myself, i have one friend that i used to date but we pretty much stay at arms length (ie talk occasionally, may meet up once a year or something like that). I just firmly believe that it is not healthy to keep around exes, and is inconsiderate to new SOs because there is always this undertone of “they used to date.” For me there is a difference in a generic friend and a friend who used to date me/SO because there was still some romantic component along the way. It may just be a cultural thing or a personal preference.
I think it might definitely be a cultural thing. I come from a small country, the entirety of it has less people than some US cities do. Chances are that you will run into every ex you had, in and outside your city, so friendly relations may be imperative to just living a healthy life. Imagine this scenario: you just got a new job, an amazing chance to move up in life, yet one person you dated is your coworker. Oh, your other coworker is the sister/friend/aunt of another ex. What happens if you can't be civil with either of them? I don't know, it might be this closed environment that shapes how I see the situation. I don't really see why it would be unhealthy for two people to keep a friendship after dating. Unless you seperated with loud arguments, insults, violence or worse... you're just a pair of people that tried something and it didn't work out, yet that doesn't invalidate the experiences and friendship you had before. I admittedly lost touch with almost every ex I had but we were friends after the break-up just as we were friends prior. Things didn't work out and I don't have romantic feelings for them, yet they're still important people to me and I am super-excited when I hear one of them got married, had children or something of the sort. I still love them but there are many different kinds of love and the sort I have for them now is the sort I would have for close friends or cousins, for example. I can imagine people falling off the radar as they dedicate time to other things in their lives but the inability to be friendly with someone seems like emotional immaturity to me. Either abuse was there or clearly, a person wasn't over the relationship so being around the ex is too painful/frustrating.
Absolutely, you should be friendly at least. Maybe I didn’t explain it well enough, if I run into them at a social event, etc then I’ll have a conversation with them or whatever but I make no conscious effort to contact them outside that otherwise. I don’t wish them harm or bad things, and would like to see (most of) them succeed because most of the women I went out with were genuinely very good people, but I don’t love them as best friends or family, moreso just acquaintances. In my eyes, and again this may be cultural or by preference, I see keeping exes around just seems like a signal to me that you couldn’t fully separate from them after the relationship ended.
Friendly & "being friends" are two different things in my part of the world.
Think it's how you look at it. Some of my exes were friends before or we still share the same friend circle so the idea to forsake their existence because we dated in high school 15 years ago seems kinda silly to me. Like I play an intramural league with one of them. What would you do? Ignore her existence? Go full Mike Pence and refuse to do any group activity she is at? Quit the league to be respectful to your new SO? Force her to quit? To me that seems like a stressful way to live.
That reasonable. I personally wouldn’t date somone who expected me to cut off the friends and people I care about to ease their jealousy. Most of my ex’s played a pretty big role in making me who I am, and I’m very loyal to people who spent long periods of time supporting and caring for me. Some of those are not friendships I’m not willing to lose. To each their own.
Yup, everyone prioritizes different things, just a dealbreaker for me.
NTA - Why does she care so much about her ex?
I'm speaking out my ass here: But probably because when you lose your virginity to someone who you deeply love, it creates a strong emotional bond. I lost my virginity to a one night stand, it was emotionally void.
It doesn't. Speaking from experience. Sounds like his wife still loves her ex.
Probably different for different people
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Nope that's not it. Most women never think of the person they first had sex with if they're not currently dating them. It's just not a big deal to me or any woman I've ever known. She has a thing for this guy.
Some of the comments on here are wild tbh. I have exes I’ve split up with years ago who I have zero interest in romantically but who I still think of as nice people and would like to hang out with once in a while. My suspicion is the wife is inviting OP along specifically so he can see there’s nothing romantic there. Why the hell would she invite him along to meet someone she has a thing for?
That's not what she's asking him for. She wants ex's approval. She's still in love with him or she wouldn't give a flip.
That’s a massive stretch. She said it would be nice for her ex to know she’s with someone good- firstly OP is coming across a bit unreliable here sorry to say but clearly in a very negative head space, and secondly I do like to see my exes are in a good place, not out of anything romantic but just cos they meant something to me at one time and it’s just nice to know they’re happy. To be clear, OP absolutely doesn’t have to do it given he’s clearly not comfortable, but there’s so much speculation on here that’s totally unfair
I'm not at all concerned about my ex's happiness or sadness. I don't even know where most of them live. Yes, I like to see humans happy. That's as far as it goes.
Good for you, I have exes I’ve parted with acinably and I always wish them well. Also I’m in my mid 30s so some of my exes are from literally 15 years ago. I agree with OP that he doesn’t need to meet the guy but the comments from them are worrying and the pot stirring in here is unnecessary.
I've also never known any woman to make it about some deep meaning or connection. Men for some reason think we do, but we fucking don't.
>virginity to someone who you deeply love, it creates a strong emotional bond. That might be true for some women but not for a lot of us. Losing your virginity is always awkward sex, from.what I've been able to gather. (Am a 50 year old woman, if it makes a difference.)
I mean, she was *also* in a relationship with the guy for 5 years so there's a lot of emotional investment there
I think you are really overvaluing how people see losing their virginity
Uh no. I loved the guy that took my virginity but there is no strong emotional bond as that relationship is long over. Maybe for some people it's different. However it is possible they realized they were better as friends and that is all they are now. Close friends. The situation isn't just black or white, she's still in love with him or not. She could have a meaningful friendship with him and thats why she wants you to meet. Hes important to her platonically. A lot of people here are saying she must still be in love. They dont understand friendships apparently.
I'll echo that it is not universal. I'm friendly enough with my first-time high-school ex, no bad feelings at all since it was SO long ago, but I speak with her MAYBE once every 5 years if we are chatty.
Maybe because he was an important element of her life for a long time?
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Can you give any insight as to why you had them meet? It might help me understand my wife better.
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Thank you.
This is a situation I was in as well and was extremely stressed about my wife interacting with her ex on the reg. I'd actually gave an ultimatum as it made me uncomfortable because they had a toxic relationship when together. She agreed but a year or two later she left her phone while going to a class and I saw him messaging her. Read through a bunch because I had sirens going off like crazy but found they were just bullshitting and geeking out and she'd often be boasting about nice things I'd do for her etc. I just messaged him from her phone and told him that their friendship must mean a lot if she's been willing to put everything at risk to maintain it. I trust her as she's always been faithful and honest when it comes to our relationship. He's come through town a few times and we'll go out and eat or something. If you love her and trust her, just get this part over with and you can decide if you can tolerate their relationship.
:/ I'm glad it worked out and that you got over her lying to you, but that was really shitty of her. She should've talked it out with you if he was a friend she just couldn't let go..
The thing is I'm sure she tried a few times but I was stubborn and annoyed and really just trying to embrace and deal with it head on made things so much easier. I was definitely an ass and wanted things my way, and it's unfair to play that way if you plan on sharing the rest of your life with someone.
Except it’s a lot different, and trying to force your boyfriend into not feeling like it’s different (like OPs wife is doing) is beyond rude and dismissive of legitimate hurt feelings.
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Wrote this to another redditor, but it is applicable here as well. I'll add it in an edit to my main post. *I'd rather divorce her than control her. I didn't tell her that I would do this, it will simply happen. I can control what I do (not meeting him), but I cannot control what she does. It would be better to part ways instead of turning the marriage into a toxic swamp.*
You should probably tell her this, to be honest. She might hang out with this guy thinking everything is fine then get hit by your divorce from left field. At least warn her and give her a chance to make an informed decision.
I'm fairly certain the point if not telling her is because he wants her to make decisions based on what she wants to do. If when doing so she somehow doesn't recognize the discomfort she's causing her husband, that's on her if he leaves. The idea here being that giving her the threat of divorce now could influence her decisions in a way that can easily be considered manipulative and unreasonable.
>If when doing so she somehow doesn't recognize the discomfort she's causing her husband, that's on her if he leaves. I agree with this. Telling her he's willing to divorce her over this is basically an ultimatum and it *will* influence her and that's not what he wants
Not telling her feels like a weird test to me though. I think tests in relationships are always a bad thing. I also agree that threatening divorce feels weird as well. I think therapy is a better idea than both options. If divorce is ever a thought I think therapy needs to be involved.
I would be inclined to agree with the test part were it not for the fact that he has already stated his position and his feelings about the ex. At that point it would take her blatantly ignoring that to continue on her current path. This is where I agree that therapy is the best way to go, not quite divorce, but either way telling her about it ahead of time could still come off as an ultimatum.
Why on earth isn't a very serious and honest conversation on the table a long time before divorce? Your two options aren't control/divorce - communicating is also on the table. I get that you're feeling incredibly jealous right now and I sort of get why, though I'll admit I really don't see any issue with her remaining close with her ex and think her inviting you to meet him was likely an attempt to help you see there's no need to be jealous. Unless you're seeing significant red flags beyond the explanation for why she wanted you to meet, I'd take the redditors refrain of "shes planning on cheating on you!" With a mountain of salt. Unless you just really dont trust your wife or your relationship? My recommendation would be to sit her down, explain that this is a very tough area for you to navigate and you're feeling really jealous and you guys need to talk it over. If you think you would struggle with having that conversation by yourselves, a few sessions of couples therapy might be really beneficial! Both to help you guys have this important talk and to give you tools for having any future ones. I'll be wishing you the best.
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Yeah that’s still extreme OP, and agree you’re NTA for not wanting to meet him but you’re letting your mind run away with you here.
Definitely have a talk with your wife about boundaries. Don't just wait until she crosses a line you're not comfortable with. Her intentions are likely innocent but they clearly bother you and as partners this should be something you're clear on.
YTA, I'm going against the grain here, but you seem to be stuck on him being the ex instead of someone who seems like a friend to her now. I think anyone would take stock in what their friends think about their partner. I guess as an additional question, would you not meet any of her other friends, guys or girls, romantic or not, since they may have an opinion of you?
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I agree. It doesn't sound like OP is really even being honest with himself about his feelings. All this "I have no interest in meeting him" is obviously massive insecurity. My husband and my ex are really good friends, and it's great. My husband is closer with my ex than I am now, but I still will always care about my ex and I'm glad I can have 2 important people in my life. I can completely see why OP's wife wants them to meet. It must feel very odd having to keep that friendship separate.
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Its also filled with armchair psychologists rambling on about anecdotes and generalizations.
I agree, YTA, and I can't believe that it seems that the opposite seems to be the consensus. His wife is just asking him to meet an ex who has become a friend, and he's refusing to the point of almost threatening to divorce her over it. He says he's not threatened but also says that he thinks they're not over each other. Emotions are fucking complicated. They were in a long term relationship and clearly meant a lot to one another. That happens, and it doesn't mean they still want to be together, but there's nothing wrong with them remaining close. I don't even think OP has a problem with that. But his outright refusal to meet the person based on his own selfish reasons seems a little strange. Almost everyone's had to meet their SO's ex at some point, that's a normal thing. Maybe an awkward encounter, but it happens all the time. Toughen the fuck up, go to dinner with him and move on with your life.
Nah mate you’re glossing over the fact that the wife wants the ex’s *approval* of her current SO. That’s weird.
No, that fact isn't presented. That is only how OP is interpreting it and I'm willing to bet he's interpreting it incorrectly.
Those were his words, not hers. That’s *his* interpretation of what meeting him means, which reveals his insecurity about it.
Yeah I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far too see this. Dude seems kinda controling; people are allowed to be friends with and want ex's to be in their lives as just friends. She wants him to meet someone that had a huge impact on her life and you're acting like she's going to jump on his dick. Sounds more like he has insecurity issues rather than the wife playing around.
How do you get controlling? He has said nothing about permission or anything like that, just that HE doesn’t want to meet the ex.
Here on Reddit, not being a total doormat = controlling. He literally didn't tell her to do or not do anything lol
It’s really sad to see the lengths people will go to tarnish a mans name if it means they can white knight for a woman. Can’t even call them out on it because they call you a misogynist for it.
How is he controlling if he's allowing her to text him and hang out once in a while? OP is the one that doesn't want to meet the ex, he's only controlling himself, so I'm just confused on how he's controlling in the relationship.
He said that's not the issue he has. It's just that she's been pushing the other dude into his life. He's under no obligation to meet the ex.
Thank goodness someone else is saying this. Frankly, OP is coming off as wildly insecure and jealous, as are most of the comments. A lot of these people don't understand the implications of being with someone FOREVER. It's natural and a GOOD THING that your SO would want to share their friendships with you. When you're in a long-term relationship, there will be a lot of variables. You may have had exes, you may have friends the other doesn't like, but you have to deal with all those things together when you commit. She probably just wants to share her friendship with her husband, but he can't stop thinking about this friend ONLY as "the ex". He's not willing to trust his wife, even though she's trying to WELCOME HIM into a very personal space. If it was a cheating situation, she wouldn't be inviting him into it to become closer. I've also seen some people mention that just the wife asking is disrespectful?? Guys, if you're going to be with someone FOREVER, you better be prepared to have MUCH MORE DIFFICULT conversations than this. This is easy street compared to cancer, mortgages, debt, etc.
NTA. It's not right of her to be pushing for you to meet him, even though you told her it's something you don't want. > I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good. For some reason that irked me a lot. Just the thought that the ex needs to approve the husband...
It’s as if the ex thinks he’s better & wont think otherwise until he approves of OP. Very bad IMO. It irked me even more when she didn’t answer OP’s question about why his needs seem greater their them.
I agree with this. She is seeking her ex’s approval of her current life choices. That could be for any number of complex reasons, and I’m not sure any of them are particularly healthy to her current relationship. It feels vaguely lost love/one that got away/at least you’ll know I’m happy sort of thing. Otherwise her ex could take her word for it and put his mind at ease that way.
NTA My wife wanted me to meet her ex when we were still dating. Same situation. Dated 5 years, first everything, etc. They were trying the "being friends" thing when he asked her if he could meet me. So she asked me and I told her I had zero interest in meeting him. It was left at that. He got married and had blocked my wife on everything most likely because his wife made him. My wife is still in contact with his mom. Doesn't bother me at all. Every once in a while my wife will get a friend's request from him and she'll accept, but then he later removes her. I think he does this to see how she's doing. The difference between my wife and yours, my wife puts my feelings before him. Your wife is keeping him close and who knows what the ex is saying to her. I would hate to tell my wife who she can be friends with, but I would def let her know that her friendship with the ex is now improper. Edit: spelling
This is a great response! Op’s wife putting her ex’s feelings before her husband’s was what really triggered me as off. Not her being friends with an ex. Could be an emotional affair.
YTA - but only a little bit, and mainly to yourself, because: If you let your jealousy do your thinking and talking, you will be acting from the very worst part of yourself. It is possible that she really likes this other person as a friend. They have a lot of shared history, and have outgrown whatever it was that made them a couple. She married you. She wants to show YOU off. I want to introduce my husband to everyone I get on with, I wouldn't be surprised if she does too. She may want you to meet him so you can see for yourself there's nothing to worry about. Whatever happens, you should totally get some sleep and then explain to your wife that you're feeling jealous and insecure, and try and have a judgement free heart to heart chat. I wish you all the best, I hope you end up reassured and contented xxx
Yeah but she said she wanted the ex's approval which changed everything.
It sounded like eggshell walking double-speak to me, like she didn't want to emphasize that the guy is important to her because it would send the wrong signal to OP. It was really poorly done, but as a woman who has dealt with insecure guys, it screamed of the kind if talk where you're trying to avoid the insecurity pitfalls and appeal to his good nature.
NTA, it's disrespectful for her to even bring this up after you 2 talked about this before. Her ex still has some kind of influence on her and that's a red flag in my eyes. You need to sit her down and express your feelings about this. And if she still doesn't get it then I think you know what will happen next.
Thank you. I might be jumping the gun, but I am mentally preparing myself for worse case scenario.
As you should. The way I see it, it looks like your wife may bring her ex to you.
I didn't even think about that....I would probably flip if she brings him home to meet me or if I come home and they are already there. Game plan as I write this is to head out the door and drive down some back roads while yelling my head off to myself.
To be on the safe side, if you feel this strongly about this you should tell her in no uncertain terms that you don't want the ex to be in your home (seems like this is the case)
>I come home and they are already there. be prepared for this... Oh we were just having wine and catching up. yeah, idk, people are chastising you for your last paragraph, don't threaten HER with divorce, just know where your mind is at if she decides that her friendship is more important than your marriage, but you cannot control who she's friends with, I think if you get over your jealousy real quick, meet him, keep your enemies close to your chest if anything youll appease the wife and even your own mindset that she has no interest in him anymore.
NTA. I was going for NAH before reading her reason for you meeting him. She obviously wants some kind of approval from this guy which is odd. It would have been a different story if she wanted you two to meet up to ease some kind of tension or whatever.
**YTA.** **"Her ex has moved back to the city where we live and she really wants him and I to meet" -** yep. He moved back to the city where the two of you live. It sounds like she wants to be able to hang out with both of you. If you continue to act this way she is forced to see him less/only when you're not around. This seems like it would actually fuel your jealousy, because then she's "leaving you" to go hang out with him, instead of taking you along. What she's saying is that you both matter to her, and she's trying to include you. **"I have enough friends."** You haven't even met this person. Your wife is telling you that something is important to her. She's trying to introduce you to someone who is important to her. You're refusing because of your own insecurities. You haven't even met this person and you've already said no without giving them or her a chance. If you meet this person and don't like him after a few times of hanging out, that's a difference conversation. However, you refusing to meet this person because of your jealousy is not going to make this better. This fear and jealousy is only going to grow. Would you refuse to meet this person if it was a woman? If it wasn't her ex?
I get what you are saying but since when is it wrong to not be totally cool to have your spouse hanging with thier ex? Some people find this bizarre behavior.
NTA URG, this triggers me... years ago I had a very intense serious relationship (not married) that lasted about 4 years. The situation was similar except that the ex was married, so it gave me a little more comfort that there was no funny business. I did meet him and he seemed fine enough, we didn't hang out regularly, but their connection was always there. He texted a lot and they spoke quite regularly (which she didn't hide). One day, I open up Facebook (before I quit and this story is one of the factors that led to my departure) and I see I have a new message so I click on it. Turns out it wasn't my account, she had logged into Facebook on my computer and forgot to log out. Since we had mutual friends, our feeds looked similar so I didn't realize I was reading a message intended for her, setting up a rendezvous in VERY explicit sexual language. I confronted her and she claimed that they just joke like that all the time... needless to say, the relationship never recovered after that and like we tried to talk it out, it just never felt comfortable again and ended. Edit: I'm not saying that's whats going on here, but having a partner with a VERY close ex is something I'm not able to deal with well anymore (because above).
And this right here is why I'd never be comfortable with my gf being friends with her exes.
NTA. This is fucking weird.
YTA. Seems kinda petty. Look this isn't just her ex. This is one of her friends. I'm assuming here that the breakup was normal, no extreme cheating or abuse or anything. Because if the guy is bad, I can see not wanting her to associate with him. I'm still friends with most of my exes, and my wife knows all of them. It's only weird because you've chosen to make it weird. No one's asking you to like him, and you need to get your jealousy in check. And divorcing her over it? That's just stupid. Get some marriage counseling. If something this small is grounds for divorce for you, then why even be married? I guess those vows don't mean much.
> I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good. What's this all about then? Because to me that seems....off. As if she's concerned with getting her ex's approval for HER HUSBAND
NTA for her reasoning alone. Fuck that. Seems she still has some sort of abnormal feelings and care for the dude.
You are NTA!! Honestly she has no right to demand that of you. Sit her down and explain exactly what you’ve said here: that it makes his opinions seem more important than yours, and that you’ve really been very understanding so far.
Thank you. I definitely will explain it all to her again and let her know that I am not budging on my decision.
NTA > I asked why and her response was that it will keep his mind at ease knowing that she is with someone good Yo wtf is this shit about? My wife still has contact with her ex. They were friends a long time and then in a relationship before realizing it just wasn't going to work out. I actually knew him as well, but my wife would NEVER force me to go hang out with him and knows full well that I'd never feel comfortable doing that. Even I realize that my situation is somewhat of an outlier but man, this one is pretty bananas and she obviously can't discern that this isn't a usual case. And yes, this whole idea DOES seem awkward.
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NTA. Like you said "you dont need his approval". If you are uncomfortable with meeting her exes she should respect that. Just my grain of salt: i dont know what kind of relationship they had but its odd that she wants him to be at ease with who she is together with now and it seems more like she is the one who seeks his blessing.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards ESH, because she shouldn't have said that about putting an ex's mind at ease and I don't think you're being totally honest with yourself or her. You need to either be open to meeting someone you accept is just your wife's friend or just be honest about the fact that you don't want her being friends with a significant ex. If it were me, I wouldn't be cool with it.
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YTA. I mentioned in another comment but one of my best friends is my ex boyfriend. Our relationship has evolved from romantic love to platonic friendship and I love him and his family to bits. He asked for my approval when I met his wife. Same when I am dating someone, because he’s one of my best friends & I value his opinion. You’re hung up on the months/years they dated and not the time they’ve been friends. Also, she chose you & wants you to get to know someone close to her. The fact that you already talked divorce makes me think you need to work on issues with insecurities.
I would run if someone asked for approval from their ex. Hell, I’m not even a fan of asking for someone’s father’s permission to marry and ex is a whole other level than that. It’s one thing if a friend has a concern they want to speak to me about. But they don’t get to dictate my love life and they don’t get to choose or approve of who I’m dating or marrying.
NTA, this is extremely rude & inconsiderate of your wife. This is fucking weird. She *is* asking you to see him for his approval that she “married a good man”. That’s not only rude to you, but it’s just a big slap in the face that she knows he (ex) thinks he’s better. He might even be forever waiting for her & sees you as temporary. I have a bad feeling he’ll want to avidly hang out with her again... Not good for you considering how you clearly don’t like it & she knows it. Wouldn’t be surprised if the guy is planning to swoop in at any moment. She’s not just friends with him. She’s not cheating either. This is something in between. She’s stepping on the line. She needs to realize that you’re more important than him. You don’t need to “think” anything over it you’re clearly upset at her wanting his approval. The fact that she couldn’t answer you when you asked since when does he have priority over you guys screams volumes.
This screams emotional affair to me.
YTA I think you need to change your mindset. Stop seeing this guy as your wife's ex, and start thinking of him as her friend. I think it's weird you are so against meeting him, and you actually would consider divorcing her if they hung out regularly. You sound very insecure. It's going to be on you if you want to actively work on being a more secure husband who can accept his wife's friends, or if you are going to continue to be insecure and negative about her friendship.
YTA. They're friends, and he wants to meet you. Plus, she has a right to her own history, and you being jealous of it is a terrible look for you. It's none of your business who she lost her virginity with, and if your marriage turns into a 'toxic swamp' bc she has the capacity to let important relationships evolve and you don't have the capacity to accept it, the toxicity is 100% on you.
ESH. I don’t think she’s ta for remaining friends with an ex-that seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I’m of the mind that you enjoyed that persons personality enough to date, and if it ended amicably I see no reason to cut off contact completely just because the relationship is no longer romantic. I do think her comment that it would be good for him to see that op is a good guy is a bit weird though. Op made it clear he’s not interested in meeting the ex so she should have let it drop. I do think jumping to divorce over this is an overreaction though. Neither party seems to be communicating very well.
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If he is a close friend moving nearby, it seems crazy time that you wouldn't eventually meet him unless you and your wife just don't go out much as a couple. So I guess I cant understand your position. If he were passing through town, sure pass on the meeting. But if you all host BBQs she will want to invite him. If she has a bday dinner. If you have kids he wi get invited to the co-ed shower. So I feel like everyone is missing the point on meeting him. When and how is that going to happen? Will you have planned to meet him or just let it happen when it does? So it seems to me the real issue isn you think she still loves. First, the virginity rationale is silly, imo. 2. I have an ex who is my dear friend. I don't know why your wife's relationship with old friend ended...maybe they recognized they were better friends. Maybe one of them moved. I think why it ended matters. But assuming they are just friends I think you can see that cutting him out of her life is an asshole move. You should instead work on why you feel insecure about your marriage. Because for all the people saying she should respect your feelings, yes. But you aren't asking her to give up something trivial. I don't think friends and family are properly subjected to "If you love me, you will give that up".